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Comments on: Palm m505 Review Part II

One week ago, we published a review of the Palm m505 that was produced in a minimal amount of time. It was intended to be a sort of "first look", giving everyone an overview of the new device. A week later, here is a more in-depth look.
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Palm Preorders

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:18:16 AM #
When will Palm ship the preorders they have on there website? I think it is the 10th but I dont know. Can anyone help?



RE: Palm Preorders
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:04:08 AM #
They started yesterday but not for everyone. Check your status: http://store.palm.com/orderstatus

RE: Palm Preorders
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:24:04 PM #
If you preordered a M505 from Staples, they should be in on the 20th if the store in your area does not already have them. Plus, from the 20-29 May if you buy a M505 you get a free ($159.00 value) business card reader. The Staples flier should be out this weekend with all the facts and the model number of the business card reader. My local store told me if you pre-ordered your M505 you will still get the free game card and the business card reader.

RE: Palm Preorders
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:59:10 PM #
I just received my m505 today from Palm. I ordered via the phone on the first day it was announced (but not at midnight -- more like 9-10am Eastern time)
Hope this helps.


RE: Palm Preorders
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 6:10:51 PM #
Frankly, I am a bit surprised that there are still so many people waiting for their M505 to arrive... especially those poor people ordered their units from Palm! My third M505 is on its way and I order it from Outpost.com last night!! I suggested you guys should try elsewhere rather then waste you time waiting for your unit to arrive from palm.com!

RE: Palm Preorders
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 6:17:11 PM #
got mine this morning. I ordered it the day it was announced on the web site. I live in Pittsburgh. Hope this helps


RE: Palm Preorders- accessories
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:14:33 PM #
I just got my Palm Slim Case directly from Palm.

Still on backorder are the seriel cable, 8MB backup card and Travel Recharger.



RE: Palm Preorders
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 4:02:47 PM #
I received mine from palm on the 8th. I am in the camp that says size is better than awesome screen, given that I came from a very old III that I could hardly see anytime! It is way too cool.

To: Guy who knows about Staples
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 4:16:35 PM #
Re that business card reader deal: Will that be given to people who pre-ordered online? Also, my expected delivery date is May 14. Is it really going to be May 20?

I'm so excited -- I can't wait to receive my m505, be sorely disappointed, and rush back to return it! What an exciting day it's going to be!!

McFile - Where?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:12:12 AM #
Where can I find McFile? I've looked on PalmGear and it's not there.

RE: McFile - Where?
Ed @ 5/10/2001 9:37:20 AM #
http://www.muchy.com/review/mcfile.html

This page is in Japanese but don't worry about that. Click on the link near the top left labeled McFile 1.12.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

RE: McFile - Where?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:39:24 AM #
RE: McFile - Where?
frox @ 5/10/2001 9:58:13 AM #
Thanks Ed, tha's exactly the file I am looking for ...

RE: McFile - Where?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:50:53 PM #
Do we install both files that come zipped McFile.prc and McFileEng.prc or just one of the files?

RE: McFile - Where?
Ed @ 5/10/2001 2:55:49 PM #
Just install McFileEng.prc The other is the Japanese version.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: McFile - Where?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 12:18:04 PM #
Anyone know where to get instructions on using McFile in English?

RE: McFile - Where?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:27:57 PM #
I sometimes get a fatal exception using McFile. Any ideas?

Sony Review

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:07:05 AM #
Ed:
Great work as usual. I especially thought your comments about different pda's working for different people to be relevant with all the ranting and raving going on. When you are able to get your hands on the new Clie, please do a review and give us some detailed images on the size comparison between the 505 and the 710c. I'm one of those people who can live with a decent screen, but SIZE is my number one priority. That said, I still may switch to the 710c if it is a drop bigger than the 505 b/c it is packed with so many more features and seems much more impressive.
Thanks...

RE: Size Matters
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:33:44 AM #
If you want a size and screen quality comparison between the m505 and Clie at the same time, check out the link below. The other factors not indicated are the thicknesses between the PDAs and the weight. The Clie is both thicker and heavier.

http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/stest/m500vsN710C.html

RE: Sony Review
Ed @ 5/10/2001 9:40:11 AM #
I'm trying hard to get an N710C but Sony Electronics is such a huge corporation that I think I'm getting lost in the shuffle. I sent a request to their PR contact address but I never heard anything back. Does anyone have an "in" with Sony or even a contact phone number I could call? I would really like to write a review.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: Sony Review
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:46:41 AM #
>>I can't really tell the difference between images >>saved in 256 colors and 65 thousand.

If you can't see the diff, the Sony Clie can be really cool!!

RE: Sony Review
jsulmeyer @ 5/10/2001 10:37:11 AM #
I'd also like to know more about the Sony - especially whether or not the case is metal, like the m505, or plastic, like the old CLIE, which feels really cheap...

John

RE: Sony Review
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:06:30 AM #
Is the Sony screen a normal TFT screen such as the Prism? Or is it reflective like the m505?

RE: Sony Review
mikecane @ 5/10/2001 11:54:18 AM #
The CLIE N710C has a metal face and a plastic back.

RE: Sony Review
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:38:26 PM #
screen is reflective like the palm, but brighter.

RE: Sony Review
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 6:20:58 PM #
For size comparison... this will give you a good picture:

http://www.mypalmboy.com/IMG_0872_S.jpg


M505 Cradle Not Charging

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:28:33 AM #
Ed:
I too experienced the lack of charging
behavior you did on the first night that I had the
M505. Before your review I thought that perhaps
the charging was intelligent in that it saw the
battery was charged at 80% capacity and didn't
"need" to be charged more. The next night I
charged it it worked as expected and charged
me up to 4.2 volts.

I'd be interested if anyone else has also
experienced this lack of charging behavior.
---
Doc Kinne
Ithaca, NY

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
Ed @ 5/10/2001 9:44:34 AM #
There may be a bug in the software because my m505 also had about an 80% charge when it failed.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:45:56 AM #
The same thing happened to me, and I think the battery was pretty full at the time. It was in the charger for 8 hours with no change. In the morning, I took it out of the cradle, replaced it and it charged to full capacity in 15 minutes.

Will constant partial charging shorten my battery life? The manual says to charge it everyday, but I am wondering if I should try to let it run down in between charges. Not sure if it will develop a 'memory'.


RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
Snubolis @ 5/10/2001 12:28:30 PM #
Well the new m505 has a Lithium Polymer battery, a step above the Lithium Ion battery, and its supposed to be memory-free.

You only need to worry about "memory" on NiCad or NiMH batteries.

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:52:05 PM #
I also had a charging problem today actually. I left it in the cradle overnight....used it for about 5 minutes total this morning and I was at 76%. Placed it back in the cradle and it took almost another 3 hours to get up to 100% charge at 4.20v. What's going on here?

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:06:31 PM #
Keep in mind that although lithium batteries are memory free for the most part, they do have a limited number of charge/discharge cycles.
DO NOT charge your Palm everyday. Charge it only when it needs it b/c you will lengthen the battery life that way.

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 3:22:02 PM #
You guys are not giving me any confidence to go get a m50x. What do you think the problem is here? Did they rush the product? It's not like this is there first rechargeable device.

2c



RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
SilliconMan @ 5/10/2001 7:19:43 PM #
It is true that this is not the first Palm device to market from palm with rechargeable batteries, but it is the first with Lithium Polymer batteries. And BTW, I don't think this is a software issue...I think its actually a hardware defect from what I know.

Palming away.....
RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
palmman @ 5/14/2001 3:25:11 PM #
I have see a lot of complants about the 505 charging. Mine SAys it is it 100% Sometimes then goes down to 90%! I think it was not all the way charged in the first place and was still charging


--------
-Palmman
RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/25/2001 7:58:37 AM #
Am having many charging problems. Has anyone figured this out?. Charging is very inconsistant.

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2001 10:46:52 AM #
I too had a problem that it didn't charge but I don't think it had to do with how much battery life was left.

Has anyone used the new Kagi 9V charger? How long does it take to charge the M505? How many charges will you get out of a 9V battery?

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/8/2001 4:38:24 PM #
Same problem.. my 505 was working fine in the morning going to work. Pop'd it up open in the evening on the way home.. Dead. Put it in the charger, refused to charger. Had to send it back to palm for a replacement.

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/25/2001 12:21:27 PM #
I've had the same problem now for the last couple of days... cannot recharge but can sync... can any of you (Ed maybe?) tell me where can I find more info about this... I remember seeing on this site some article on how this problem was fixed, but I cannot find it now...

PLEASE HEEEEEEELP!!!

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/30/2001 10:41:23 AM #
I have the same experience.
I beleive the 80% battery index is because when the cradle just not charging, the LED was still consuming the battery power.

RE: M505 Cradle Not Charging
naturefreak85 @ 3/3/2003 12:35:32 AM #
no one seems to realize that it is not a charging problem if you take it off in the morning and it is at 76 percent then leave it off and on for 15 minutes, it will be up to 100%. i ran mine down once to 10% and i charged it overnight, i have had experiance with clie's, and it shows me the same thing, it is just the hardware cant always keep up with the battery, if you left it on in the cradle all night, yes there would be no problem, but it is a simple problem nothing seriousq

GOING TO RETURN MY M505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:27:28 AM #
I wrote in yesterday exclaiming my joy in receiving the m505 from outpost.com. Well...what a disappointment.

First let me just start by saying that I've been a Piloteer since the very first palmpilot came out and have had every model up to the 5x, and now have the Sony Clie peg300 (monochrome). So with this said, I am a strong supporter of palm devices. However, my biggest complaint, and only complaint, is the screen. The color is very washed out, and the screen is dim. The only Palm I've never owned is the IIIc so I don't have a frame of reference of what color on a Palm should look like, but the m505, for me, just does not live up to my expectations. I don't know if other color screens can be seen without backlight, but the m505 can barely be seen in ANY light without backlight. I tried viewing under incandescent as well as full sunlight, and compared to my other palms and the Clie, the screen is difficult to see.

Considering that the m505 was supposed to be an improvement (or so I thought)this device is not worth the money if screen color is important to you.

As a note, the m505 box had a sticker that said "Assembled in Hungary". Could these be first-production models and other models will have improvements? Well, for me it's not worth the hassle of wondering...I'm going to return it outpost.com and wait for the Clie n710.

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:38:44 AM #
Who cares what YOU are doing? Why do people like you continually post to these message boards regarding what you are doing with YOUR Palm. It's apparent that you have trouble making decisions like this and want people so support you. You're fishing for replies like "I agree! The M505 sucks!" or "I'm waiting for the color Clie to come out!".

It's fine that you're returning the M505, that way someone who wants one can have it. The tone of your post though, like all the others disparging the M505, is that anyone who chooses to use it is obviously not as "advanced" or sophisticated as you. Get some counseling.


RE: Mediocrity Rules!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:48:59 AM #
It amazes me how humans like the person above can adapt to almost any adverse condition, and fool themselves into thinking that a mediocre situation is not so bad after all, but perfectly acceptable. This applies to the m505 screen quality or lack thereof. Just think how much more usabliity and functionality you could get out of the device if it had a superior screen like the upcoming Sony Clie. I do not plan on using the MP3 player by the way because I agree that it is too expensive due to the media.

For an objective comparison on screen quality between the m505 and Clie, check out the link below.

http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/stest/m500vsN710C.html

How do you know?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:03:28 AM #
After the announcement of the m505, we all thought it would be great. Then it actually came out and everyone found out it wasn't perfect. I bet the Sony one will go through this process, too. When it is in stores and lots of people have them, we'll have a better idea which is better. Maybe the Clie will have to be charged a lot or something. I'm not saying it will, I'm just saying its too early to say it is perfect.

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:20:27 AM #
Has anyone actually considered the fact the devices such as the Ipaq have the frontlight on permanently. Turn it on and then do a comparison. If it is still washed out and useless then go and buy a different device. Similarly the issue over the IIIc screen being better only applies to general brightness. How about in direct sunglight when you can't read the IIIc's screen ... Is it still better?



RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:22:35 AM #
"thinking that a mediocre situation is not so bad after all, but perfectly acceptable"

So if I choose the M505 because it fits my needs, I'm accepting less than I "could" have? What a ridiculous statement. So we should all drive top-of-the-line cars? Live in the most expensive houses? The list goes on.

What a moron you must be in person. I've used several Palms, I don't need MP3, I don't need desktop compatibility and I certainly don't need 32 or 64 MB of RAM.

Enjoying my mediocre life with the M505 and very happy.

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:42:54 AM #
If you are happy with your m505 and it fits your needs, then I am happy for you. However, you should not be criticizing the Clie for being a "top-of-the-line", mp3 playing, 64mb loaded device. It will cost $50 more than the m505, but will come with added features, such as better screen, one handed jog dial operation, 8 mb memory stick, etc. The price leap from $449 to $499 is not as big of a difference, since I consider both devices top-of-the-line Palm PDAs. You can already get a 64 mb MMC card for the m505 by the way, which I also assume you won't be buying. I hope people realize that you don't have to call people names to have a constuctive conversation.

A Moron in Person

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:57:11 AM #
I object to the people who keep saying those of us who like the m505 are crazy! They then typically post the urls of sites with pics of the new Sony Clie or the Visor Prism next to a m505 to show how poor my m505 really is. BUT WHAT ABOUT SIZE? Show me some pics of another Palm that is the SAME SIZE as the m505, with the same build quality (ie. metal) with a brighter screen and I will go and trade my m505 in. Until then I think the m505 screen is acceptable to get the form factor no one else has matched.

to all the m505 defenders...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:52:52 AM #
just think of all the money you're wasting upgrading to the newest pda from Palm every year. and what are you getting out of it? a small device with only 8MB of ram and a crappy color screen.

if you were to just buy the right handheld in the beginning you wouldn't be living in a sea of mediocrity. (sorry, but the word fits the situation *perfectly*.)

i bet you can't truthfully say that you like having only 8MB of ram. how many times have you had to remove programs to fit a different one in memory? 16MB+ makes a world of difference, as does a memory expansion card. just think of all the great things you'd get to keep on your handheld without having to remove other great programs.

teach Palm a lesson. give your money to a company that is innovating rather than trying to play catch up.

RE: to all the M505 defenders
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:02:31 PM #
"if you were to just buy the right handheld in the beginning you wouldn't be living in a sea of mediocrity."

How long have you been around technology? Not long I gather. Whatever you buy "in the beginning" is out of date before you leave the store. Things change, technology is evolving. If you're happy running Windows 3.1 on a 386 that's great. Most of us are not. We welcome new technology, realizing that there's never going to be the perfect PDA. There will always be something else someone wants added, or expanded or smaller.

So you just have to find a PDA (or anything else) that fits your needs, buy it and use it. If something else comes along you like better, buy it. It's only money, what does it matter to anyone but me how much I "waste" on new toys?



RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:21:15 PM #
To the person that wrote:

"Who cares what YOU are doing? Why do people like you continually post to these message boards regarding what you are doing with YOUR Palm. It's apparent that you have trouble making decisions like this and want people so support you."

What a blind follower you are. You are so freaking loyal to your beloved Palm that you are willing to back the company and everything it does completely without question. You're just a clone!! You are so loyal that you would jump and attack anyone who has anyone who even dare to critize your beloved company.

Do you actually think that Palm care about you, even knows who you are, or is grateful that you are defending them? (I say this not only about Palm, but most big companies including Sony) Palm is only grateful that you gave them $450!! Come on wake up and get a life!!

Now back to the topic at hand, I think Palm's develope of the m505 does bring critism. I think that the biggest complaint that people is with the screen. I know that some people don't seem to mind that the screen is dim and dull, but the majority of the people are saying that the screen is 'medicore' at best. Someone wrote that they won't mind living with a medicore machine along with a medicore life. That's just depressing....who are you a librarian? (heh)

I don't know about the rest of you, but if I'm paying $450-$500 of my hard earn money, I want a screen display that looks like it's worth 450-500 bucks!!!


RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:59:44 PM #
To who said:

"So we should all drive top-of-the-line cars? Live in the most expensive houses?"

You are missing the point. Most people are disappointed because they did buy the top-of-the-line PDA and got a so-so screen.

Would you buy a Ferrari if you knew it had a Honda engine inside... HELL NO! Same goes here.

2c


RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 3:04:15 PM #
Nothing like someone who is trying to sound intelligent, but does not no how to speel...I mean spell

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 3:14:08 PM #
Pepople seem to be losing sight of the value proposition here. Keep in mind that, until fairly recently, the Palm Vx listed for about $400. Nobody seemed to think that was substantially out of line. The Palm M500 costs $400. I don't see anybody complaining that the M500 is overpriced either. The M505, at $50 more, is suddenly Palm's nefarious attempt to swindle me out of my hard earned money? Get real. My previous PDA was a Vx and it served me well. This purchase decision, quite frankly, came down to the iPaq vs. the M505 and the M505 won. I bought it, I'm happy with my decision and, believe it or not, I'm not a Palm shill, I'm not an idiot and I'm not on drugs. So if you really feel that Palm has let you down with the M505 then buy a IIIc, they're cheap. Or a Prism, or a Clie. Heck, buy an iPaq. Do whatever makes your little heart go pitter patter. But whatever you do won't change how happy I am with my purchase.

"I agree! Color PDAs suck!"
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 3:32:05 PM #

Keep your Vx. Its the battery people, not the PDA. The Clie will have the same Pocket PC or m505 shortcomings. Until someone comes up with a power source that can run a color LCD like those found on boat electronics (ultra crisp, bright, and readable even in direct sunlight) color PDA's will suck. Look at your pictures and movies at home and don't slow the development of extremely useful always connected b&w units for your novelty screens.

Enough is enough!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:39:27 PM #
Since the m505 came on the market, there has been no shortage of people complaining about the screen. I'll bet most of you who read these message boards already know what the m505 screen is or isn't. Does it serve any purpose to continue this debate about whether you are getting value for money. THERE WILL BE NO WINNER IN THIS DEBATE. Those who are unhappy with the m505, just vote with your wallet and either return it or cancel your order. Why bother to buy it and stress yourselves out complaining about it. It's time discussions on the m505 move on to more useful topics like sharing info and tips and how best to get the most out of the unit.

People are Strange.............
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:48:28 PM #
Does any one else think that this discussion is weird/scary or is it just me?

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:05:45 PM #
I'm the original poster for the "Going to return my m505", and I just want to express my surprise at some of the posters' almost venemous replies. I thought the purpose of these postings was to share opinions on the products that we are all so interested in, and fascinated by, so that we can gather other opinions, weigh them, and use the info as possible input to a decision-making process. Doing this is not an indicator of one's mentality or intelligence quotient, it is merely something we all do everyday, several times a day. We make decisions based on input of others.

My purpose here was to do one thing...share an opinion. If you're not interested in my opinion, that's OK too...this is America!

To all of you other more stable individuals (shame on me, now I'm pointing fingers)I enjoy reading the thoughts and constructive criticisms of others, and keep the comments flowing!!

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:29:07 PM #
I agree with "I.M. Anonymous"! ;-)

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 6:10:04 PM #
Ya'll should grow up...


**Happy M505 User**

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
SilliconMan @ 5/10/2001 7:16:01 PM #
I agree too. The Palm for YOU is NOT the one that everyone else has but the one that SUITES YOU.

If the m505 didn't suite him SO BE IT!!! I love my IIIc and will keep it.

Did any of you even read what Ed posted? I guess not cause he said the same thing I just did. Damn, go ahead flame me now.

Palming away.....

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 7:28:14 PM #
From the Original Poster:
I agree with the above...let's all get back to the most fundamental, and basic consideration when making any type of purchase...can I use it for MY needs.

The bottom line is all of us can make comparisons, gather tons of data from the most educated and informed sources available for all palm-type devices, and in the final analysis the question should be..."Would it fulfill my needs?" What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. So let's stop ragging one another and get back to the mission at hand...the exchange of information and thoughts on a subject that fascinates all of us. If it didn't fascinate us, why are we all be spending so much time reading and replying to these posts ;-)

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 7:48:07 PM #
Returned my M505. The screen quality is terrible, thanks to those on these boards posting their experience. Will stick with monochrome for now...



RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 8:33:43 PM #
My comment is:

If you want a wonderful bright and vivid color for the picture viewing or for other multimedia purpose then get a iPAQ or Casio E-125 or HP Jornada.

If you want a Palm OS only PDA with wonderful bright and vivid color for the picture viewing or for other multimedia purpose and you are a gadget nut then get a Prism

If you want a ultra compact Palm OS only PDA for your organizer purpose such as keeping phones numbers, to do list, taking notes and with a extra room for large applications then get a M500

If you want the features of the above ultra compact PDA but have limited budget and can live with only 8 MB of space then get a Palm Vx.

If you want a ultra compact Palm OS only color PDA but the color is not your upmost priority and yet you need room for larger applications then get a M505

If you want a compact Palm OS only color PDA and you need it for viewing languages with complex charaters such as Chinese or Japanese and you love keeping nice pictures and prefer to have your music with you too then be patience and get a Sony Clie N710C.

If you want to criticze other PDA simply because you love yours so much then get a life!

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:13:29 PM #
Does anyone know if I can charge my M505 in Europe (220V) through the voltage converter. Travel kits are not availble yet, but I need to take it with me on Monday...

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:44:51 PM #
Other than the distinct size factor and card slot I think the basis of a decision on the screen of the M505 should be based on usage. Its clear that if you mainly use it outdoors then the M505 is for you. I have the IIIC and I have found that I use the Palm less than 5% of the time outdoors. In actual fact, one thing I use it for is to read the papers on the subway. This is the perfect environment for the IIIC and I am sure the M505 doesn't compare in this regard. That said, if I was employed in a job that took me outdoors a lot the IIIc would be nearly useless. just my 2c.

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 10:38:39 AM #
My Jornada makes all your Palms look like they came from the stone age, with it's massive size, weight, processing power, and memory! c*omic book villian laugh*

Seriously folks, lighten up. I think we're all forgetting one little thing here that I'm pretty sure EVERYONE learned when we were children (or, are children, not to leave anyone out) - WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT. Nobody has the exact same needs for anything - including PDA's. (Well, except oxygen - most people I know are pretty bent on having a decent supply of that stuff..)

Some may want a thin device that can display good quality color images for business, or some may want a bit heavier device that can display pictures of their kids in high quality, bright as could be color so they don't have to worry about losing them in their wallet..

Others may want a bit more in terms of multimedia capabilities, and not mind yet an even larger size, and opt for a PPC.

This isn't intended to start one of those wonderful Palm vs PPC wars - all I'm trying to say is that everyone has their own needs and their own opinions. People can see the screens for themselves, without everyone attacking the few daring enough to say what they think. I really doubt anyone is going to read one single post of someone saying "I don't like the screen," and decide to never buy another Palm device again.

State your opinion, be friendly, or shut up.

Evan

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 3:50:38 AM #
Yes, well I have a Vx and am just using it and will just use it till it won't work anymore, by that time there will be something smaller, cheaper, faster, better etc. I do enjoy reading the comments of early adopters though so keep it up. I remember being pretty excited about my MobilePro 770 till it became obsolete in a year thanks to Pocket PC. The Vx will be around for a long time in one form or another I just hope they don't kludge it up with too much "new" stuff, it's lack of nic naks and do dads is the reason I bought it in the first place. But that's just MY opinion America, let me know what you think.

RE: GOING TO RETURN MY M505
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2001 3:40:06 PM #
Man o Man, the M505 sure gets people riled up. Not that anyone cares but, I like mine. I've always used Palm III devices and I wanted the smaller form factor. So for 50.00 more I could get color. Why not? It's great. Sure the color may not be what everyone excpects but it suits me fine. I've seen the new Sony and the screen is awesome. But the screen is not my primary concern. It's just a benefit.

I think we need to remember that everyone has their own opinions and preferences. I value opinions posted here but the one that matters the most is my own. If you like the M505 then great, if not, that's fine too. To each his/her own.

No reason to fuss.

Ed - USA or Hungary??

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:56:34 AM #
Ed - great follow up review. The one question I think that is still out there is if there's a difference between the USA and Hungary model. Which one is your review based on? Is there a way you could get a look at both, and then give us your feel? Thanks!

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
Ed @ 5/10/2001 10:11:10 AM #
Mine is a Hungary model. I haven't seen a USA one. Anyone living in north Atlanta have a USA model and want to do a comparison?

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
dteky @ 5/10/2001 10:29:53 AM #
I bought the first run from Office Depot last week which was made in USA. Yesterday, bought a unit from Best Buy which was made in Hungary and notice the difference in the screen quality. My USA model was much brighter...it second unit was suppose to be for my wife which she complained that the screen was too washed out. SO the Hungarian unit went back to the store. Anyone else noticed this difference?

BTW, the review was GREAT! Awesome job;)

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:36:52 AM #
I have a USA model but I'm in PA

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
Lucky Dragon @ 5/10/2001 11:26:55 AM #
Well, I picked up a USA model from Office Depot on Tuesday. I made sure they had a good return policy in case I wasn't happy with it, but I don't think I'll be returning it. The COLORS on the screen are a bit faded in low light, but the CONTRAST is just fine: I have an easier time reading the screen than I did on my Palm IIIx in similar lighting conditions. Besides, unless you're playing games you don't need color most of the time. Of course the backlight works just fine if you must have color and I can't see that it drains the battery excessibvely. Besides, once you get outside in the sunlight, WOW! A firend of mine has a IIIc and I like my m505's screen better--it looks less "grainy". Maybe some of the complainers got Hungary units or something?

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:32:37 AM #
Dtecky,

Can you elaborate on the "much brighter" comment? Are you referring to the strength of the sidelight or the contrast of the screen itself without the sidelight on? Did you examine both units with a full charge?

Ed,
I own a Hungary model and still have about a week in which to return it. If you could pursue this USA/Hungary "brightness" difference for those of us in my situation and give your opinion it would of great help. Thanks.



RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:40:16 AM #
I bought a Hungarian model from Office Depot today, and also received my pre-ordered one from Palm today. After reading the previous posts, I was curious and opened the one from Palm which was assembled in USA.

Surely there coudln't be any difference. But... Now maybe these are just flukes, but, the USA model had a more white look to it in the dark, and the Hungarian model didn't backlight the bottom 1/8 inch of the graffiti area. But, in normal light, I could see no difference. The Hungarian model also had a power switch that wasn't as sensitive as the USA model. But, that's just my two models out of how many thousands.

Makes ya wonder why that hack/ hoax or whatever said the Hungarian models could be modified to brighten the screen and not the ones assembled in USA. Interesting.

Lovin my 505.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
bcoignard @ 5/10/2001 12:24:10 PM #
Hi Ed,

I have a USA m505 bought last Monday at Office Depot in Atlanta. Available for a drink?
--Bruno.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
dteky @ 5/10/2001 12:46:55 PM #
Clarifying my statement about the sidelight of the USA vs. Hungarian. In side by side comparison, with the sidelight on in a dark room: US background is whiter in tone whereas the H. is palish/light yellow hue. I was able to tell the difference in contrast also.

This got me curious so I went to OD and bought another m505(it seems like Best Buy gets the Hungarian and OD get the US...weird). The new unit is being charged up. I will post another message once I can confirm my statement above just to make sure that what I saw yesterday isn't a fluke.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:28:14 PM #
I have a Hungary model, and from what I hear, I apparently got an exceptional one. I have no problem screen being washed out, no lighting inconsistancies, etc. My guess is that the difference is not necessarily which factory made them, but that the design process may have been a little flawed resulting in some really good, and some really bad.

To attempt to remove any bias I probably have, I took it around to about 15 people in my office to get their opinions. Most don't own any Palmtop devices, but there are a couple Prism and non-color Palm owners. The worst comment I got was, "That looks pretty nice."

Regardless, in my opinion, the m505 I picked up looks excellent. I find it hard to believe that so many people would complain about the screen if they all looked like mine, so I'm willing to bet the manufacturing process wasn't too great.

And no, it's not Hungary vs. USA.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
dteky @ 5/10/2001 1:30:00 PM #
WOW! I can't believe my eyes. It seems that the new US model also has the yellowish hue compared to my first US. I thought that it may be because of the brightness hack...tried it on the second unit and it didn't seem to help. I'm lost folks! I now understand why the folks that "bitched" about the m505 did so! ONE more time, the second unit has a palish yellow hue where as my first is white...in comparison. Even though it's not a bright as the Prism, it's pretty close. BTW, I have compared 4 different m505(2 from Best Buy and the others from OD). This mystery---I just don't understand. For my own sanity, would someone else please confirm?

Thanks,

dteky

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:37:10 PM #
I too have a Hungarian model from OD and my graffiti area doesn't light up all the way. The bottom 1/4" or so doesn't light up (below abc & 123). Although I thought that was odd, I just thought they were all like that. Are you telling me that the USA model is completely lit???

Is the screen side lit from all 4 sides? My upper right side doesn't seem side lit.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:40:13 PM #
Let's be careful, everyone. As much as some of the previous m505 discussions have degenerated, I can see this becomes a "USA rules, Hungary drools" marathon.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
dteky @ 5/10/2001 1:43:38 PM #
Anyone in the Wichita, KS area would like to get together to compare the screen...drop me and email at dteky@hotmail.com.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:59:28 PM #
I just compared the screen on my Assembled in Hungary unit that I bought last week at Office Depot to a new Assembled in USA 505 on display at CompUSA. They appeared identical to me. (CompUSA has the actual unit on display, not a model running the demo like at Office Depot). Ed, you can check this out yourself as the display unit is at the CompUSA on US 41 in Marietta. They also have some in stock. I did not look at the boxes to see which types.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:08:37 PM #
From what I can tell from reading various posts on Hungary vs USA here and in other forums, I don't think there is a difference based on location of assembly. I would imagine the parts at both assembly locations for the most part came from the same manufacturers. I do believe there may be a difference from unit it unit and I suggest the difference is the quality of the light (bulb?) source. I am guessing some are just slight brighter or slightly different in color tone (warmth). I have read descriptions of m505s with blueish, yellowish, reddish and surprising enought whiteish cast to the screen with the front light on. I would also suggest every eye recognizes color and light in a slightly different way.

That all being said, I have a Hungarian model purchased from OD (first shipment). Generally I like to buy "Merican" if I can, but OD didn't have and USA assembled models available. My m505 seems to have a blueish white light with frontlight on. The complete graffiti are is lit up. I have no complaints. Also, I find I only need to use the frontlight about 20% of the time as I have fluorescent lighting in my office, though not as bright as some offices. I guess all those carrots mom fed me as a kid come to some use.

I really think the Hugary vs USA arguement is a nonstarter. We all know the good 'ole US of A makes superior products ;-)) But don't forget, at least those of us old enought to remember, that Hungary produced the Gabor sisters (three gorgeous blondes in their day).

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
ckohl23 @ 5/10/2001 3:21:48 PM #
http://www.smaller.com/article.cfm?id=2446&page=2&

according to smaller.com, "the American m505 is of a better build with a better lit screen and a more even light distribution"

this is very disturbing to hear being an owner of a hungarian palm m505.

your comments please....

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
BillW @ 5/10/2001 3:47:25 PM #
I could not believe this thread when I read it. At lunch I had to pick up some cables at the Compusa in Marietta, Georgia. They have a working USA unit on display. I compared my 505 (Assembled in Hungary) to the USA unit on display. I could not see any difference. I compared different programs, different screen fonts, and with and without sidelight. Since Ed is apparently located in the Atlanta area, perhaps he can check it out in person and let us know what he thinks.

BillW
RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:44:37 PM #
I held a Hungarian unit in my hand and played around with it and compared it to my own USA built 505... and did not notice much difference if any at all.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:24:45 PM #
Someone post a photo , please !

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:07:45 PM #
USA No Doubt!!!
After reading all the comments saying that the USA model is brighter I decided to call around and Best Buy had a few USA models in. As there were none on display I bought one with the knowledge I can return it within 14 days.
I've owned the Hungarian model since last Wednesday when OD got theirs.
In any case when I got home I plugged it in and a couple of minutes later I turned it on. You could see the difference immediately. It is brighter and whiter is all I can describe it like. And definently better. I noticed my Hungarian model did not light evenly on the top right. ( I believe I read someone else had that problem). The USA model light up evenly.

I would venture to say it is close to the Prism in brightness. (I used to own one).

In my humble opinion, size and form are important. The M505 has both and a very good screen. I also own an EM-500 and the screen on it is great but comes with the price of bulk and form.

Make sure you get the USA model!!!!

I took several photos with the lights on and off with both organizers, but I have no idea how to post them. If someone can advise I'll be happy to post them.


Luckyfoot

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
ckohl23 @ 5/10/2001 11:26:13 PM #
luckyfoot, send them to ckohl@andrew.cmu.edu. i can upload them to my web server and set up a link.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
Ed @ 5/10/2001 11:28:56 PM #
Or e-mail them to me and I'll post them here. ed@palminfocenter.com

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
ckohl23 @ 5/10/2001 11:29:30 PM #
i have a hungary model and all of this talk of superior USA-built units is driving me nuts. please tell me what to do...tomorrow is the last day i can return the darn thing!!!!!

:(

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
ckohl23 @ 5/11/2001 12:37:44 AM #
scratch that...i forgot how sucky that server was...try this instead:

http://cmkohl.8k.com/m505.html

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 12:48:33 AM #
Luckyfoot those pictures are pretty bad. I can't tell much difference between the two except on the first picture.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:58:08 AM #
Luckyfoot, you certainly don't have much luck on those pictures...

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 7:44:22 AM #
For some reason guys, the camera has a hard time focusing when it's dark and no flash involved. I took a couple more and sent them to Ed. I think they're a little better. Maybe he'll post those.
Sorry, I tried.

RE: USA or Hungary??
Ed @ 5/11/2001 9:36:25 AM #
Sorry guys, I looked over the second set of photos and the ones already posted are actually better. I appreciate you trying, Luckyfoot, but I know getting a good picture of a Palm screen is really tough. Especially when you are trying to capture something as subtle as slight differences in brightness. Oddly enough, the best results I've seen are from people who just scan their actual handheld.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 10:00:39 AM #
ok i saw the pictures.. can i assume that the one on the right is the USA model??? it doesnt saw which one or maybe i miss something.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
BillW @ 5/11/2001 10:05:59 AM #
I could see no difference between my Hungary 505 and the USA 505 in the bright lighting of Compusa yesterday. Of course, they have it attached to the display with a cable so you can't check it in dim lighting. Since the photos are with dim lighting, I presume you could only see the difference in poor lighting when you need the sidelighting the most. Any chance of Palminfocenter doing an actual comparison?

BillW
RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
dteky @ 5/11/2001 12:29:04 PM #
Hey...couldn't we get a screenshot of the Palm via some program? Would that show the difference?

Just a thought.

USA and Hungary Comparison
Ed @ 5/11/2001 12:45:24 PM #
Sorry Bill, I have to disagree with you. I just got back from CompUSA and the USA model they have on display is just a hair brighter than my Hungary one with both side light on and off. The sales clerk agreed with me. I want to emphasize, I mean a tiny little bit brighter. I had to put them side by side and look at them for a few seconds to be able to tell the difference. This isn't anything that could be photographed. BTW, I tried it with both the m505 in the cradle and out and this had no effect on the brightness.

The side light on my Hungary model also doesn't light up all the way to the very bottom of the silkscreen but that is apparent only in very dim light so I couldn't see if this was true about CompUSA's model.

I'm not going to return my Hungary model for a USA one over this. The difference is just too slight to be worth the hassle.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:16:50 PM #
I bought my Hungary model 8 days ago and got really curious about this supposed difference last night myself. Today I stopped by OD where I originally purchased it and asked if they had any 505's that were the USA model. He brought one out and I brought it home for comparison.
There is a very small difference in direct sunlight with no backlight on. It appears to me that everything is a bit more "detailed" around the edges, if this makes any sense. But the big surprise came when I gave it the complete darkness test. No windows, completely dark. Turned both on with sidelight and I assure everyone, there is a VERY noticeable difference between these two units! I noticed this immediately even before I gave it the "completely dark" test. In my bedroom I have one 100-watt bulb lighting the room and one window. The difference is also very noticeable under these conditions! I believe Ed described it perfectly as the USA model has a much whiter background as opposed to the Hungary model which has a yellowish, washed-out appearance. The sidelights are brighter on the USA model also. In the complete darkness, I took turns shining them toward the wall and the USA model was brighter 2 to 1. This could also be somewhat contributed to the whiter background, I'm not sure. Anyway, just wanted to post my honest (not a troll) experience with this. All situations may not be like this but I'm MUCH happier with the USA model, bar none. Sorry, no way to get pics but I think it would be hard to capture this with a camera (as someone else has already done), before anyone asks.

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
dteky @ 5/11/2001 2:25:59 PM #
Folks...I made this observation a day or so ago...I am glade that others are confirming my findings with one correction. I don't think it's US vs. Hungarian model but more like random. I've observer 4 or 5 which have randomly bought and found that even with 2 US models side by side, the other US model is palish yellow. I have only ran across one(the first one I bought) that is "brighter".

Keep the comments coming folks...perhaps Palm will wake up and see that us users are smarter than they give us credit for!

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 9:33:15 PM #

Well as a new m505 owner I'm very discouraged after reading these posts. I have the Hungarian version and the claims being made here scare me. I still have a few days left before my return policy ends.

Does anyone know of any stores in the Toronto west end (Mississauga) that currently offer the m505 that's made in the U.S.A ? I'd like to see firsthand a side ny side comparison to make a final decision. Thanks.

-joe-

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 7:12:58 PM #
"and the Hungarian model didn't backlight the bottom 1/8 inch of the graffiti area"

I have two USA assembeld M505's and one of them is like this where the very bottom of the graffiti are is not lit up. The other one is lit all the way to the bottom, but it has a big flake of dust on the edge, under the top layer of screen and I'm afraid it will migrate out into the viewing area. Anybody else have a device where the lighting doesn't go all the way to the bottom? Should I exchange it?

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2001 1:57:06 AM #
Hi all,

Just bought an m505 Hungary Made and it looks fine and bright... It doesn't matter where it is assembled because the parts origin are the same... In every assembly line there are always a percentage of stock that will not meet the level of quality... From what I've heard is that the USA and Hungary made units both have issues on a certain percentage...

Cant complain as managed to get a deal on it for US$360... :)

Go and buy either version... Very nice unit...

Thanks!

RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2001 12:11:51 PM #
I was at CompuUSA in NYC at 8th & 57th on Saturday and spent a good deal of time with Mark Gonsalves, a Palm Sales Rep who travels around Manhattan spending 3 to 4 hours a day at various computer stores. He is a really nice guy and spent a long time talking with me about the 505.

He told me that brightness varies from unit to unit and has nothing to do with country of manufacture. Also, and he emphasized this over and over, he said that the brightness problem is a software issue. I couldn't believe this, but he repeatedly told me it was true. His claim is that the brightness is set at the level it is for purposes of keeping the battery life at a reasonable amount. He implied that it's just a tradeoff between battery life vs. screen brightness.

Mark's Palm, btw, was very bright. And guess what? It was made in Hungary.


RE: Ed - USA or Hungary??
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 4:21:09 AM #
I'm glad you guys are spending the bucks on all this comparison stuff. I plan to wait till they flood the market like the Vx then buy one, by that time the manufacturing process will be stabilized the screen bugs worked out and the units on sale will be the best. If it weren't for you beta testers Palm wouldn't know where the problems lie. Thanks for your time and money !

How can you say...

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:31:36 AM #
"But the screen looks great with the side light on in any situation."

I'll give you that the screen looks great in SOME situations, good in MOST situations, ok in A FEW situations and just plain hard to see in some situations.

The crux of the matter really comes down to how/where you use your palm and if those situations will effect you. I returned mine due to the fact that there were some situations where it wasn't bright enough to have the sidelight off, and not dark enough for the sidelight to do anything. For me these situations include my conference room, the hallways in my office suite and in my car on an overcast day.

Sure - as some have said - I can use it outside or on the beach and it looks great. That's all well and good, but I'm at work!

I'm not saying it's not a great peice for many people. I'm not saying don't buy it. I'm saying dow you homework before you buy it.

That being said - greta review! Thanks for taking the time.

Ray

RE: How can you say...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:50:48 AM #
The 505 screen gives you the option of using the sidelight, where the IIIc and Prism require it to be on all the time... draining your batteries.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't need brilliant color to figure out where my next meeting is. If I can save a little energy so that there is more available for games on the trainride home, that makes me happy!

Prefer Outlook Express as desktop PIM?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:52:31 AM #
Hmm, funny, I didn't think Outlook Express was a PIM, just email and such. You mean Outlook, right?

RE: Prefer Outlook Express as desktop PIM?
Ed @ 5/10/2001 10:55:06 AM #
No, I use Outlook Express. It handles my addresses and e-mail, which is all I really need. It doesn't have a Calendar but my Palm is sitting right next to the keyboard. I got the Palm to be my PIM. Loading an application onto my desktop computer so I can do the same thing that I can do on my Palm seems a bit pointless.

As soon as Palm gets the m500's modem in, I'll go back to doing most of my e-mail from the Palm. As I said in the article, I'd really prefer to do almost everything from the handheld. About the only exception is real Web surfing.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

NY Times: "Avoid the M505 at all costs"

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:57:17 AM #
(I posted this under another article, but I guess it is more appropriate here. Ed., feel free to delete the other posting.)

The New York Times has an interesting article today comparing all the new handhelds. It raves about the Clie, and damns the M505 about as much as anything I've read.

"Unfortunately, its screen is so dark that it may as well be a piece of onyx. You wonder if Palm's Silicon Valley-based designers actually looked at this thing before shipping it, or if perhaps they chose it during one of California's rolling blackouts. In any case, avoid this $450 dud at all costs."

Ouch.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/10/technology/10STAT.html

RE: NY Times:
MadMax @ 5/10/2001 11:17:48 AM #
I read the article as well. It seems typical of a reviewer who probably has never held one is his hand for more than 2 minutes. ...How mwnay times have we seen this before?

RE: NY Times:
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:22:41 AM #
Is anyone out there actually buying the m500? Taking into consideration all the latest Palm-related reviews I've read, I'm considering it. I'd love a nice color screen, but information is what I need to carry around with me, not pictures. Is there some reason why I haven't seen many raves about it?

Unfortunately, the reviewer *does* know what he's saying
Smartmoose @ 5/10/2001 12:10:11 PM #
One might be quick to shove off the NY Time review as being done by some shmuck that has the title of "technology reporter," and really doesn't know Palm handhelds all that well. I know, because that is how I ususally think.

However, this particular review was written by David Pogue. For those that don't know Mr. Pogue is the author of the popular "PalmPilot: The Ultimate Guide" put out by O'Reilly (you know, the computer books with animal woodcuts on the cover). You may have also noted that his book is regularly advertised in the left column boxes here on Palm InfoCenter (look for the flying squirrel). Though his current edition (2nd) is beginning to show its age, if you read the book you'd understand that this man loves Palm handhelds. Simply put, don't shove off his review as a piece of useless fluff.

On a related note, I didn't think the m505 was as bad as Mr. Pogue described. There were two present at the past meeting of the Michigan State PUG, and I was pretty impressed with the screen. Then again, as Ed mentioned in his review, I'm one of those that's been using a monochome Palm (Vx is most current), and anything color looks better than that. I frequently find myself in those lighting situations where the ambient light isn't enough, and the backlight just seems to make it worse (whether I invert the backlight setting or not). The frontlight on the m505 helps the screen no matter what. In fact, I kind of wish that the monochomes had frontlight like the m505.

Anyway, for more information on David Pogue's book (and to see what he does know about Palm handhelds), head over to http://palmpilot.oreilly.com/

No, I don't work for David Pogue, the NY Times, or O'Reilly - I just know that the man writes a darn good book about Palm handhelds and his review should be trusted)

RE: NY Times:
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 12:12:41 PM #
David Pogue is not just a reviewer, but he is an author of many computing books and has also written the Palm Computing book for O'Reilly. Check out his web site at:

http://www.davidpogue.com/

I'm pretty sure he's used a Palm device for more than 2 minutes.

Allan

RE: NY Times:
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 12:28:44 PM #
The comments he makes about the 505 make me wonder if he used it for more than two minutes or just parroted something he heard on the street or read on a discussion board

RE: NY Times:
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:07:24 PM #
It's still his opinion on the device. Do you guys take every movie review you read to heart? I'm sure you don't. Everyone has different tastes. Just because this guy doesn't like the M505, does that mean I can't like it?

Really, everyone needs to be a little more independent and form their own opinions? "Parroting" what they've heard or read other places is an excellent description of what's been going on with the M505 discussions.



Sony Messing with You!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:34:39 AM #
Sony first said the new Clie would be out by the end of the month right? So you guys would not jump onto the m505 bandwagon...

Well in case you have not noticed, they have already pushed the date back a little, to June 8th...

You can see this if you put one in your shopping cart from the Sony site.

Just an FYI!

RE: Sony Messing with You!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:59:24 AM #
It's that just what palm did with the shipping dates of the m500 and m505?

RE: Sony Messing with You!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:38:46 PM #
...and the same thing that Palm is doing by 'leaking' a pic of the new 700 series last week.

It is called "Marketing" :)

RE: Sony Messing with You!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:46:54 PM #
I keep hearing that palm somehow slipped the release of the m50x seties so i went and looked at the original announcement from March 19. It sys that the m500 would be available in late April and the m505 would be available in May. No hard dates. I would say that since the m500 came out about April 20 and the m505 on May 2, you would have to say that they shipped at the early end of the announced dates.

RE: Sony Messing with You!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:47:24 PM #
All I am saying is that the idiots that have said "don't get the m505 wait for the clie because it will be out by the end of the month" need a glass of water, to wash down their foot.

Sony will make you wait and wait... I am pretty sure of it!

Loving my m505,
Aaron the original poster :)

RE: Sony Messing with You!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:05:36 PM #
Whatever kept me from buying the m505 had nothing to do with release dates. I just like the Sony better and I am willing to wait for it. The moral of the story is "see for yourself". For all I know, I could be disappointed with the Clie as well. I won't know until it's in my hands.

To buy something else just because what you want isn't out yet is just plain foolish -- even more so when you only have to wait for a month or two. Besides, most of the people here already own a PDA. You can afford to wait.

2c


RE: Sony Messing with You!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 6:01:01 PM #
yo 2c-

i didn't buy the palm because the sony was not here and i was impatient. i do not want a heavy bulky over-priced over-hyped mp3 player. i wanted a sleek slim thin powerful organizer. and i got it and am happy. so back off! i'm not foolish for getting what i want.

RE: Sony Messing with You!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:10:43 PM #
Were is the palm 700 series review?

RE: Sony Messing with You!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 12:54:43 PM #
To who wrote:

"yo 2c- i didn't buy the palm because the sony was not here and i was impatient..."

Then I wasn't talking to you. I was responding to those who were recommending the purchase of a m505 over a Clie 700 just on the basis of availability.

BTW: Your claim of satisfaction loses credibility when you lash out with like that. If you are truly happy with your purchase, please don’t let the writings of an anonymous person spoil it for you. That *would* be foolish. ;)

2c



700 SERIES????
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2001 2:41:01 AM #
Can anyone say where the info on the Palm 700 Series can be found on the web? Pics? Specs?
Thanks...
-A Piloteer trying to decide between the 505, the Clie 710c, or waiting LONGER!!!!

Choice

frauen1 @ 5/10/2001 11:50:09 AM #
I haven't seen the m505, but I think the big mistake Palm made here was to limit the choice. The worry over battery life made them make the (incorrect) decision to limit how much control over this tradeoff a user can make. I'm sure some of the people involved in this decision are kicking themselves over this. I can make a trade-off as a user - I might lose data once or twice, but I can figure it out.

RE: Choice
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:41:00 PM #
Actually, I think that everyone over at Palm right now are just happy to have a job. Palm recently laid off a few hundered people and their sales are down. 3COM, their parent company, laid off thousands last week. I say get your Palm products while you can. :)

Don't get me wrong, I don't care much for Sony computer products, but they are a huge company with lots of resources and may end up being the last man standing on the Palm OS side of PDAs. And if Sony every purchased Palm, Handspring can probably kiss their OS license goodbye!

RE: Choice
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:38:17 PM #
3Com is not the parent company of Palm any more. 3Com has nothing to do with Palm, except for an overlap of some of the stockholders. They are completely separate companies. You're out of date by more than a year.

RE: Choice
Satan @ 5/11/2001 1:48:05 AM #
Handspring just renewed thir OS license until 2009, so by the time their license runs out, there would be no need for PalmOS. http://www.palmos.com/news/2001/041101.html

Palm appears to be in the process of imploding and might not be around much longer as a separate company. I expect to see them taken over within six months, perhaps sooner if their new lineup flops. The first step will be a series of resignations, likely to be announced within the next month.


Microsoft is now poised to step it, but it remains to be seen whether or not PPC4 has been simplified enough to challenge Palm's intuitive design. Don't be surprised to see massive changes in the PDA market over the next 4 months.



CLIE fans save Palm's a**!

mikecane @ 5/10/2001 11:59:55 AM #
MSMount, McFile, and the other utilities that CLIE owners have created to get over the limitations of Memory Stick file handling on the CLIE are turning out to be the SAVIORS of the Palm m500 and Palm m505. Think of how little you'd be able to do out of the box with those units if it hadn't been for the dedication and hard work of the much-maligned CLIE owners. Give them a big hand for a job well done!

RE: CLIE fans save Palm's a**!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:48:44 PM #
Tottaly agree, Bow down to us Clie Owners! :P

Btw, funny the author of this article mentioned that MSMOUNT was created for the CLIE, but did not mention anything about McFile.
Well McFile was created FOR the CLIE also, see the little Memory Stick icon on the bottom left? And Click the "Palm" on the top right, It'll change to "MS"

And anyways, Sony Clie was better off the block. Sony Clie comes with MS-GATE an almost full featured file management program (McFile is still better), but Sony's MS-Gate is a lot more better than whatever the m500/505 uses to copy stuff to the SD/MMC.
Heh. Palm m500/505 is Half-Assed

RE: CLIE fans save Palm's a**!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:13:30 PM #
I herd, from another post, that the m505 screen is the same as the Clie500 screen. Does that mean we can thank Sony for this as well?

I have no idea if there is any merit to this rumor. I just find it ironic that after all of the Sony bashing I’ve seen on this board, it’s their technology that is propelling the platform to the next level.

Maybe some of you Clie boys out there can help clear this up. ;)



RE: CLIE fans save Palm's a**!
mikecane @ 5/10/2001 7:29:55 PM #
There have been rumors to that effect. Perhaps Sony unloaded all of the bad screens they had in a warehouse from their own prior flop of a color device? Ha!

Let's see if Palm will release what is being called a "m515" --

320x320 screen
brighter lighting
contrast control
soft Graffiti area


RE: CLIE fans save Palm's a**!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 4:00:12 AM #
IS this a reliable observation - m515??


Big New Features in OS 4
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 10:40:04 AM #
I think this is someone's wishlist. This stuff isn't impossible but Palm is working hard at porting the OS to ARM chips. I don't know how much time they have to continue adding big new features to to OS 4. Though if Sony has already done the work, it might not be that hard. But I still expect to see all this stuff in a year, not 6 months.

m505 review - additional comments

bcoignard @ 5/10/2001 12:25:34 PM #
Hi Ed,

Thanks for this very good and balanced review.
I bought 3 days ago an m505 in Atlanta (USA model). I'd like to add some comments:

1) the m505 is not shipped with Album to Go but with MGI PhotoSuite (at least mine). I really like this app and did include pictures of my last vacation in Florida. Excellent!

2) I had a Palm Pro before (one of the first model, manufactured by US Robotics). The m505 screen is really different from the PalmPro screen, which was in glass. I think the m505 screen is in plastic (correct me if I am wrong?) and I like the 'touch' of this screen much more smooth than the older one. It also is probably less fragile.

3) the m505 screen is not bright, but as you said a very good compromise between battery autonomy and good colors. As you said, it's a GOOD screen (I know, I had a old BW model before). What's the point in getting bright colors if you have to charge your Palm every other hour? I like the fact to be able to charge it once a day only.

4) My flap cover fit perfectly the m505 when closed. However, I will bought a case to protect my Palm better.

5) The AvantGo version included on the CD ROM is not the latest 4.0 but the previous one (3.5?). You can download the new one on the AvantGo web site.

6) The only problem I noticed is when turning on the device: sometime, pressing once the button turn the m505 on, then off again immediately. I have to press twice to turn it on. I think this problem happened before with the Vx, correct?

That's all for now. I love my m505.
--Bruno.

RE: m505 review - additional comments
Ed @ 5/10/2001 12:48:52 PM #
> the m505 is not shipped with Album to Go but with MGI PhotoSuite

D'oh! That will teach me to write reviews until the middle of the night. Thanks for the correction.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

RE: m505 review - additional comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 3:41:59 PM #
I've noticed my m505 does the same thing: pressing once will turn it on and off again. It seems to do it while it's in the cradle. I wasn't sure if it was because I am using Glowhack or not. Is this a hardware problem that requires a replacement?


RE: m505 review - additional comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 7:33:03 PM #
I like the PhotoSuite program but noticed that it doesn't have the abilty to mark files as private.
I've register mine and inquired with MGI but haven't heard back from them. Has anyone else using
it noticed this?

joemc

RE: m505 review - additional comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/7/2001 1:34:26 PM #
My m505 did not come with any photo Suite or photo software or anything of the sort built in.

RE: m505 review - additional comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/21/2001 12:10:46 PM #
My Palm m505, which I bought at Franklin Covey came with both PhotoSuite and Albums to Go. I've tried both and prefer Albums to Go

Screen

superbenk @ 5/10/2001 12:32:53 PM #
I don't get where everybody even considers the screen GOOD let alone GREAT. I saw the m505 at Staples for the first time last night and actually got to see it work. The store is flooded with bright flourescent lighting and even with the sidelight on it was dim and grainy at best. The "black screen" between pixels is especially annoying. I hated that on the IIIc and it's worse on the m505. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept Palm has had of keeping things simple and useful and I totally agree with it, but compare their screen to that of a PocketPC and it's pathetic.

Bottom line: Could someone - ANYONE - explain why this and/or the IIIc screen even gets a GOOD rating? I just don't understand.

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 12:44:56 PM #
I will agree that the screen's not as good as a PocketPCs, but it's not quite as bad as you think.
I own an m505 and it looks much better in most lighting conditions than the ones I've seen in
stores, even though the stores are full of bright flourescent lights. Also, I don't think the black grid
is worse than on the IIIc. It's a lot less noticeable, at least on mine.

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:10:49 PM #
Because for me it's more readable in low light conditions than either the Vx or M505. When used with the sidelight it can be viewed in total darkness. The colors add more readability to the screen. I can set different events to have different colors, making it easier to tell events/to do lists apart.

If you don't like it, don't buy one.

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:45:39 PM #
In Fact, STN Screen has already been used by SONY 500C last year which never appear in North America. The users's feedback was also controversial. many users has complained its DARK screen just like those of you are complaining. SONY also said the same thing such as to save more battery life, and the brightness should be acceptable.

Unfortunately, the selling quantity of N500C told the truth and dropped dramatically which were well below SONY exception I guess. and it causes N700C/710C showing up less than one year after N500C debut. This time, SONY bounces back and presents IPAQ-like of screen. The feedback in TAIWAN are all positive mostly.

I am not coming here to say how great N700/710 is. just thought it might be usefull information and hoping Palm should note what the mistake SONY has made. Sorry for my poor English.



RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:30:59 PM #
You guys, before you jump to conclusions about the screen, you need to really SEE the screen in action. Don't just look at the stupid color icons in the launcher. That does not do the screen justice. You need to view some nice color pictures or games like Zap 2000 or eve 2016. I love the color on my m505. It's awesome when really put to work.
Period.

RE: Screen
superbenk @ 5/10/2001 2:38:44 PM #
So I'm hearing that I need to shell out $500 just to get a good view of the screen or sit in a pitch black room to appreciate it's crispness or get a sunburn standing in full sunlight while I view the grandure of a beautiful set of colors? I'm still not following the beauty of this thing. What makes all that worth $500? (And for the writer who added such wise words of wisdom as "If you don't like it, don't buy it," I don't intend to, I'm trying to UNDERSTAND).

PS - what is that silly black grid between pixels for anyway? With all our modern technology it seems they could have made it white to blend in some or shove the pixels together to make it unecessary altogether. Again, excuse my apparent lack of understanding.

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:14:10 PM #
I don't understand why people dislike the screen so much! First of all, the m505 appears to be of really high quality. The feel of the buttons, the finish, everything. Secondly, the screen, while it appears muddy and dim FROM THE APPLICATION LAUNCER VIEW, is actually quite vivid and colorful when you view COLOR APPLICATIONS on it, such as pictures, color games, fireviewer docs, etc. Reading text? Who cares about vibrant color. I care more about readability in low-light w/o draining my batteries. All this is exactly what the m505 offers. If you really want to see the screen before buying it, load a color application or game into your current Palm, go into CompUSA or OfficeDepot, and beam the app to the m505 on display there. Trust me. You won't see any more muddy colors. If you don't believe me, just do it for yourself. Then buy the friggin' thing and stop deliberating over whether or not to get it!

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 4:37:08 PM #
Someone above wrote:

"In Fact, STN Screen has already been used by SONY 500C last year which never appear in North America."

Is this true? The Clie500 and the m505 have the same screen? Because I remember, not too long ago, that everyone was bashing the hell out the Clie500 for the poor screen quality (even Sony didn't think it was good enough to ship over to the US). Now, all of a sudden, the same screen it beautiful in a m505?

Are American standards that low?

2c


RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:12:09 PM #
The color is vivid? You are all those people whose monitors and TVs have never been set correctly. And you go on not aware that you are not even using your monitor to the best of its ability. The m505 looks like it has brightness, contrastless, color, and saturation turned all the way down. If you can put up with it enjoy.

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:51:31 PM #
>What makes all that worth $500

The m505 costs $450, plus tax maybe, or no tax and shipping.


>PS - what is that silly black grid between pixels for anyway?

Have you ever looked at a IIIc or Prism? the black grid is way worse.

RE: Screen
superbenk @ 5/10/2001 9:22:57 PM #
1) The difference between $450 & $500 is hardly worth arguing about.

2) So I ask again - what is that silly black grid between pixels for???? Not is it better between IIIc and m505, but WHY IS IT THERE? PocketPC doesn't have a hideous black grid.

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:42:50 PM #
i just don't understand why someone can say that the color of M505 is " Vivid" !? Did you ever see the image
on the Prism or PPC ? The color is vivd in M505 ? Give me a break !

The Gadgeteer's review of the m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:34:37 PM #
Here's a good review of the m505 by the Gadgeteer:
http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/m505-review.html

About the screen:
"The m505 color display is VERY similar to the color display that the iPAQ uses. It is also a reflective display which makes it very easy to read outdoors in the full sunlight. Unfortunately, it also makes it hard to read in normal indoor conditions."

"By holding down the power button, you can turn the backlight on. With the backlight on, the screen is still pretty dim. I would compare the brightness to an iPAQ on the lowest bright setting. I typically use my iPAQ on the highest brightness setting. The m505 only has one bright setting, on and off. When it is on, the screen looks somewhat washed out. The colors aren't very vibrant at all. They have more of a milky cast to them. The display isn't horrible by any means, but it is disappointing. Actually in certain lighting conditions I would say that the m505 with the backlight off is much harder to read than the m500 mono screen."

Not to add to the bashing of the m505 screen, but I have yet to read a review that gave the m505's screen a favorable rating.


m505 screen
Davy @ 5/11/2001 12:10:17 AM #
To all you technogeeks out there who never leave your houses, the screen really gets better outside. I mean, some of you might not know what it's like, but it's really incredible. To look at thousands of color of images outside is fantastic. Inside, it's great too. I don't know why people think there are black grid lines, because maybe I got a different one, but mine doesn't have em'. If you're not buying one because of the screen, you're an idiot, plain and simple.

Hey Davy!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:23:19 AM #
Hey Davy boy,

I think you're the idiot, I know it hard for you to believe, but most people use their PDA inside. They have what we call "a job", most of these "jobs" are in this place called "an office building". Most of us with "jobs" spend most of our workday inside these "office buildings". If this idea is foreign to you, hard to follow, or if I'm going too fast for you, please re-read the above, and use a dictionary.

Second, I don't want to go outside just to see the display on the m505.

For example: "Can I do the bussiness meeting at 8:00 am Tuesday? Uh...hold on let me take the elevator down to the lobby, step outside, check my schedule on my m505."

Again, this is what some people do in a "job", Davy. We can't just step outside anytime we want to see the display on the m505.

Next, I think that you are delusional... Anyone viewing a 160x160 screen can clearly see the grid lines, although the reports are these grid line are less prominent in the m505 because of the dim screen.

If you think that the screen looked "great" inside, you are definitely in the minority. Most reviewers labled the screen as "dim", "milky", and "dull". Now do we believe them, or do we believe you? What you are doing is called "denial" look that one up too, Davy.

You wise advice to the rest of us:

"If you're not buying one because of the screen, you're an idiot, plain and simple."

Well that...is just plain funny!!


RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:43:15 AM #
If someone have to go out under the sun to make the pictures looks better on his M505 then I think he is the idiot!!

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:49:17 AM #
You have to go under the sun to have a better look at the picture in M505 ?? Gee.. I called that "plain and simple idiot!"

RE: Screen
Ed @ 5/11/2001 9:13:16 AM #
The intelligence level of this "RE: Screen" thread has dropped to about the third grade. You guys have descended to name calling. You are simply going to have to agree to disagree. At this point none of you has any chance of convincing anyone of anything.

I'm closing off this thread. You guys are wasting everyone else's time with your flame war.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

this little bit of power makes you feel good, Ed?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 10:11:38 AM #
N/TTT

RE: Screen
Ed @ 5/11/2001 10:30:02 AM #
Yes

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: Screen
superbenk @ 5/11/2001 12:49:57 PM #
Ed, I can completely agree with you. I don't think I've had one of my questions answered yet in this thread. I read your article and many other on OPINIONS about the m505 screen, but I can't seem to get any technical answers as to why it's so lousy (in my opinion).

Troll Sighting!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:07:59 PM #
N/TTT, in case you haven't looked in the mirror lately, you are a big, hairy, smelly troll. Take your trollbait somewhere else.

Ed, you should delete crap like that.

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 2:16:15 PM #
Could it be that there's a very wide range of brightness/contrast/quality, sample to sample, in the screen of the m505? Some could be near-Prism in brightness, some as dim as a rock, and some in between. Then everybody could be telling the truth, and all the screaming and yelling could be for naught.


Variation in Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 3:16:31 PM #
That's a pausible theory that there is a variation in the screens of the m505. Then everyone would be telling the truth.

BUT wouldn't that be MORE distrubing? If I want buy a product, I want the same standards, not a range of variations. That will be a distasterous blow to customer confidence for the Palm, not to mention questionable quality control.

Anyway, I don't think screen variation is the case.

What I DO think is the placebo effect. Some users are so focus and put so much expectation into the m505 that they subconsciously convince themselves that the screen is not all that bad, even "great". This may also explain some of the vicious attacks that people here make toward others who are critical of the m505.

I'm an idiot?
Davy @ 5/11/2001 6:26:25 PM #
Can't you read! I said the screen gets "better" outside. (You seem to like using apostrophes, so I thought putting them would help) Maybe If you could move outside the technical world of 160x160, and actually look at a screen of one, your opinions would matter. Instead you hide behind your I.M. Anonymous nickname, and cry about your job. Boo Hoo.

RE: Screen
superbenk @ 5/11/2001 8:30:37 PM #
Davy, not only are you being just as barbarous as the guy that attacked you, but you are also totally missing the point. I can't imagine that any more than 5% of Palm users are able to work outside most of the time. I don't think I'm far off from the average Palm user and I have an office with 4 walls a door and a ceiling. Unfortunately none of those components of my office allow sunlight in so your arguments really don't apply to most of us. I envy you completely for having the type of career or lifestyle that enables you to use your Palm m505 outside, but that really doesn't help the rest of us too much. I believe the arguement here is that MOST Palm users environments lead to a VERY poor product as far as a screen goes.

***Can someone tell me where to find the answer to my question about the black grid between pixels????

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 11:23:36 PM #
***Can someone tell me where to find the answer to my question about the black grid between pixels????

Hey Superbenk,

The black grid between the pixels is basically what it is...it is the space between the pixels.

You see the lower your resolution the bigger you pixel size. The current Palm m505, Palm IIIc, and Handspring Prism are all 160x160 in resolution which means that there are 160 pixels across by 160 pixels down the display screen. The black grid lines are the spaces between the pixels, basically the bigger the pixel the wider the space between each pixel, hence more noticable "grid" pattern.

The m550's resolution is 160x160 at that resolution, the grid lines are very noticable. One of the advantages of the Clie is that its resolution is 320x320 which quadruple the total number of pixels. This means that the spaces between each pixel is tiny, which gets rid of the annoying grid-lines.

Hope this help.

Can I get an explanation?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 12:26:39 PM #
Someone earlier in this tread referenced that there was another color Palm OS PDA before the m505 that was also critized for the quality of its screen. That PDA was Sony's first attempt at the color Clie, S500C.

Well, I did a little reasearch and found a discussion tread on Visorcentral where someone posted a picture of the S500C next to the N700C and compared that to a picture to the m505 next to the N710C.

I think that poster made a good point...Palm should have known that producing the m505 with a dim screen will draw criticism just like Sony's S500C.

I posted a link to the Visorcentral tread last night on this very tread. This morning my post was gone. Am I being censored?

Your Explanation
Ed @ 5/12/2001 1:19:52 PM #
One of the instructions on the page where comments are entered is "Please try keep URL's small and all on one line." Browsers can't figure out how to break up huge URLs so they just print the whole long URL on a single line. This throws off the formatting for the entire page. Sorry, your URL was doing this so I had to remove it.

I'm never happy when I have to delete a comment for this reason but having the page stretched out really wide inconveniences everyone. I've asked Ryan to come up with a fix for this and he's working on it. In the mean time, if you can find a way to post the link without a very long URL, you are more than welcome to.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

RE: PEG-S500C vs. PEG-N700C
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 1:39:13 PM #
RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 3:34:53 PM #
Thanks for the explanation
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 7:13:44 PM #
Ed,

Thanks for clearing things up. Sorry I didn't know about the long links.

By the way, the two links above showed the same information, but on two separate discussion boards. Looks like I'm not the only one that saw the pictures.

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 7:28:31 PM #
uh what the heck chief

bright 505 screen hack
Reed @ 5/15/2001 9:24:34 AM #
Has anyone used this hack called bright505 posted today on Handango.com? I don't have a m505 so I can't test it out. A description of it follows:

Tired of the dull, hard-to-read display of the standard Palm m505? Having difficulty reading text indoors without using the sidelight? The much-anticipated new Supernova Software release, bright505 instantly fixes all of the m505 display deficiencies, providing users with an extremely vivid color screen. This program is a HackMaster/EVPlugBase system extension and directly modifies the display registers, resulting in vibrant, razor-sharp text and graphics. Photo-realistic colors are finally within your grasp.

RE:  bright 505 screen hack Hoax
Ed @ 5/15/2001 10:28:05 AM #
Will this hoax never die? Don't waste your time, this is just GlowHack. The file on the PC has been renamed but what shows up on the Palm is just plain old GlowHack.

I considered deleting the previous message but you are sure to see stuff about this app on other sites so I'm leaving it up as a warning. Think of this as a virus warning.

And please ignore anything else you see about the m505 screen contrast hack. The whole thing was a hoax from beginning to end.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 4:47:13 AM #
Are all you guys getting paid to do palms r & d beta testing ? Better you than me, I'll wait till you all tell palm what to do then I'll go buy the results. Thanks for helping me buy a better product !

Staples.com

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 12:41:50 PM #
Staples.com is quoting 1-day shipping for the M505.

RE: Staples.com
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:10:45 PM #
Yet my Staples.com pre-order is still on "pre-order" with a May 14 expected delivery. What in the sam-hell is going on with those halfwits at Staples?

M505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 12:50:31 PM #
I was anticipating the arrival of the 505 so I could get a color screen and faster CPU and
a software that could read Word and Excel files. The colors are not bright and I have to use
the light all the time. It is faster and like the small size (I have a Vx also). But I am not pleased
at the idea of having to buy another keyboard and GPS. I feel disappointed but maybe I had
dreamed too much.

New MsMount

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:23:05 PM #
Version 0.7.3 2001/05/10 Support app that uses shared library. I just downloaded it, but not tested. FYI

http://www.geocities.com/nagamatu/MSMount/


The Old MMC cards vs the newer SD card

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 2:29:24 PM #
I've never used the thin MMC cards, like those made by Viking and San disk, so I do not know much about them. I understood what you were saying about being able to lock the newer SD cards. What I do not undersatnd, is if we can usec the older MMCcards with the Palm m5xx series. Are they as fast? Can they fit into the slot? Is there any other benefit to the SD card other than the ability to lock the Palm SD card? The MMC cards are definetly cheaper. I hope they do fit, and are equaly fast in accessing the data...the price differance is significant.

RE: The Old MMC cards vs the newer SD card
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 3:06:17 PM #
I picked up a 32MB San disk MMC card yesterday. It works fine. After installing MSMount and MCFile, I played with it a bit. I haven't used other PDAs with Compact Flash or Memory Stick, so I can't personally make a comparison, but a friend who has had numerous PocketPC devices stated that the speed was "about the same" on each as far as access times. Granted, this is all relative.

Apps running "from" the card can take about a second to start up (presumably as they are being copied from the card to RAM). Copying a 483Kb WordToGo file from RAM to the card took ~10 secs (timed with the second hand on my watch).

Another friend has Palm's 16MB SD card, but he hasn't tried it out yet. Hence, I personally can't make a comparision between SD vs. MMC.

RE: The Old MMC cards vs the newer SD card
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 12:33:45 AM #
thanks for the info...if it turns out that the SD card is no better than the MMC cards, I'll return my 16mb card and by the less expensive MMC card woth more memory.

SD Confusion

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:19:43 PM #
After reading many MMC vs SD posts I am still very confused. How is it possible there are SD cards and SD slots on the market but they have not fully set the standards for the format? And how does one find out the speed of an SD or MMC card? People have mentioned on these boards that MMC is 2 mb/sec and current generation SD is 2.5 md/sec. I cannot find documentation to back up those numbers on the web or packaging. And how are consumers supposed to know when the cards speed up and can the palm utilize them? Any help would be appreciated. And please don't give me links to posts that just repeat what I just said.
Thank you.

RE: SD Confusion
Lucky Dragon @ 5/10/2001 6:03:05 PM #
Currently there's not any significant difference between the two, other than that SD cards cost more for an equivalent memory size. This is the answer I got when I called Palm's tech support line to ask which they recommend. In the future, SD cards may be faster but I suspect that the Palm OS software would have to be modified to take advantage of the additional speed, and possibly the memory card manufacturers would have to make changes in their processes too. So for the time being, just buy whatever is cheapest or buy from whiever memory vendor you trust. The rep I talked to said he hadn't had any reports of incompatiblity issues with any particualr brand.

Still SD Confused
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:04:06 AM #
So we all take the word of some palm employee? How come neither company will put any specs in writting? We had a better answer for the m50x Release Dates than SD card specs. And will there be an anouncement when the new gen. cards are released or will we have to take their word for it then also?

RE: SD Confusion
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 9:07:20 AM #
If you go to the following link for Sandisk, one of the three developers (with Matsushiata aka Panasonic and Toshiba)of the SD/MMC card and click on Tech Support, then Learning Center on the pulldown menu, they have some more specific info under the Product Literature "book" icon.

they are saying a 4x improvement in max data transfer rate, and improved electrostatic resistance over MMC.

From their info:

http://www.sandisk.com/Product Overview
The SD Card is 32 millimeters (mm) long, 24 mm wide and 2.1 mm thick. SD Card packaging includes a new high performance, nine-pin SD interface that enables data transfer rates of up to two megabytes (MB) per second (eventually 10MB per second). Seven of the nine pins are the same as the seven pins of MultiMediaCards. Also included are unique and proprietary security features implemented within the card’s controller which facilitate the secure exchange of content between host devices and the card. The security level has been designed to comply with both current and future Secure Digital Music Initiative (SDMI) portable device requirements. A user-selectable, mechanical write protect switch automatically prevents consumers from accidentally overwriting or erasing data, images or audio files stored on the card. The ESD tolerance of the SD Card is significantly higher than existing cards, +/- 10K volts for contact discharge and +/- 15K volts for air discharge, because its package uses raised plastic to overlay and protect the interface pins concealing them into separate channels. The simple serial interface offers easy integration into various devices regardless of the microprocessor being used.


Just as a sidenote, I bought their Imagemate USB MMC reader/writer for my desktop, and it is NOT made to accept the slightly thicker SD cards. (Which is what the Palm 16meg Expansion cards are--and yes they are made by Sandisk)

320x320 will become standard

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 5:44:32 PM #
320x320 (or higher) will become standard at some point in the future, at which point 160x160 will seem crude. That, combined with other things like screen quality and jog wheel, will point me to the Sony over the Palm.

(The real question for me is, should I sell buy *anything* new or just hold onto my Prism for another 6 months or more.)


RE: 320x320 will become standard
Lucky Dragon @ 5/10/2001 6:12:04 PM #
Might as well hold onto it for another 6 months in that case--I would. You've had it less than a year, right? So unless you think you can get a decent price for it on eBay or something, hold onto it a bit longer and get your money's worth out of it. I considered buying one of them myself when they first came out, but took a pass because they lacked flash ROM. Now I just bought an m505 and I'm glad I waited! What boggles my mind is why Handspring refuses to include flash ROM on their $300+ models. It's a lot cheaper for someone to purchase a $30 CD to upgrade their OS than to have to buy a whole new unit if a new version of the OS has some feature that they need. My IIIx lasted me 3 years, and I was able to upgrade to 3.3, then 3.5 along the way, extending the life of my PDa considerably. From my perspective, this decision on Handspring's part seems like a false economy that deprives their users of options. I dunno, just my $.02

RE: 320x320 will become standard
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 6:21:02 PM #
I would bet that the real reason Handspring does not include FLash memory is due to its licensing arrangement with Palm. By Palm insisting that Visor's not include flash memory, Palm insures that its devices have a software advantage over the Visor's.

RE: No flash in Visors
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:07:27 PM #
I think that HandSpring decided early on to differentiate themselves from Palm on price. Since relatively few people upgrade the OS it was better for them to lower the price. Overall I think this is a good thing since we have a choice. (Flash-upgradeability was the reason I went for the Palm IIIx btw.)

RE: 320x320 will become standard
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 4:54:27 AM #
Why think 320 x 320 will become standard ? Why not 640 x 640 ? You can bet right now some guy is reading this on a 1280 x 1280 palm device with a 1 gig processor and a terabyte of memory laughing his a** off. If you can think of it nowdays it can be done, it is just a matter of money. Ask Dennis Tito !

RE: 320x320 will become standard
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/27/2001 5:05:37 PM #
I'm waiting for 300x420(or 480 etc.) screen. So I can wave goodbye to the graffiti area. Handera is stepping in the right direction IMHO. But Palm still has top place in terms of size and looks.

Audio on the m505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 6:02:59 PM #
ed, good job on the review, i agree with your screen analysis. however, when talking about teal movie, you said that you could hear the audio. i thought that the speaker was only able to make beeps and stuff, or is there an attachment to hear audio from movies on the m505? thanks

RE: Audio on the m505
SilliconMan @ 5/10/2001 7:22:37 PM #
The piezo is the m50# series is capable of producing sound man. If you've used FireViewer or tealmovie you should obviously know this. The sound isn't great but its better than nothing.

And of course, I'm talking about the piezo IN the m50#.

Palming away.....

RE: Audio on the m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 2:07:31 AM #
i just installed fireviewer, and a video with sound, but when it plays, i get nothing. do you have to activate the sound or something?

RE: Audio on the m505
palmman @ 5/14/2001 3:01:35 PM #
Were Can I Get fireviewer?



--------
-Palmman

RE: Audio on the m505
OldMatador @ 5/16/2001 11:29:49 AM #
I was using Fireviewer for video, but I recently downloaded the TealMovie player, and it's by far the better option. Granted, you can't pull files off the SD disk like on Fireviewer (I'm sure they'll fix that in an update later), but you can create smaller videos (Even smaller than my AVI files!) and you can get sound! Granted the sound is tinny, but it's SOUND, and pretty decent sound given the fact that the Palm Speaker wasn't exactly built for digital sound! TealMovie is your best bet for playing videos on the Palm m505.

--
Bill Lehecka
http://www.oldmatador.com/letterman/
RE: Audio on the m505
trucker @ 8/10/2005 2:37:10 PM #
since you asked, here is where 2 get fireviewer:
http://www.firepad.com

fireviewer also lets u stream live video to a wireless palm.

Schoddy Work

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 8:01:11 PM #
My unit - M505 - has broken down after 4 days. It won't turn off without a soft reset each time. I can't help feeling Palm rushed this unit out without proper testing. Granted, one example is not a good sample, but I have moments of xenophobia when I believe the Hungary model that I have has been cobbled together from old T34 tanks.

Despite that, I am a complete sucker - going back to The Good Guys to exchange it for another.

RE: Schoddy Work
MadMax @ 5/10/2001 9:14:59 PM #
Check the apps you install one by one. What you most probably have is an app that is NOT OS 4.x compatible & not a "bad unit". I went through it.
Check for the latest version of your apps.



RE: Schoddy Work
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 2:43:41 PM #
Same thing happened to me. I found a game that was written in 1996 for OS 1.0. (potello)
Once I scrapped it (with a bit of sadness), all was well again.

Movies on PhotoSuite?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:02:04 PM #
You mentioned using TealMovie & FireViewer to look at movies. Did you try PhotoSuite's movie abilities?

Stay on in Cradle

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 9:06:42 PM #
Something has happened to my m505. I have the "Stay on in Cradle" preference checked but it no longer stays on. I'm not sure what I did, I loaded MSMount and added a few things to my SD card but that's it, no hacks or anything. Any ideas out there?

RE: Stay on in Cradle
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 3:09:03 PM #
I'm having the same problem, but figured that it was because I'm running CrazyDiamond and AfterBurner with XMaster.

RE: Stay on in Cradle
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 3:03:50 PM #
I'm getting the problem without XMaster. I did a hard reset and "stay on" works, but as soon as backup buddy resyncs all my apps it no longer stays on. I guess I'm going to have to install every app, one by one to see what is causing this. argh!

RE: Stay on in Cradle
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2001 6:14:02 AM #
I had the same "problem". In fact it seems to be a "feature" ;-)

In Security App turn off the auto-secure-feature and your Palm will stay on.

Seems as if the developers considered the "stay on in Cradle" feature as a security-risk, so they thought it is better to shut down the unit in the cradle, even if the option is marked.

Are some Hack-Programmers out there to fix the Problem?

Regarding the sidelight-turn-off-in-cradle-problem, there is a hack called "KeepLit" which remebers the state of the light when turning the device on/off and adresses the auto-turn-off-problem.

Coloured greetings from Germany!

Overall reviews

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 10:09:51 PM #
I liked your assesment of the overall PDA market; what is good for one person may not be right for another, that it is all a matter of choice. But then in the next paragraph you state that an upcoming release may be better than all the rest. :)

RE: Overall reviews
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 5:03:31 AM #
You humans are so funny. I live in a Palm Vx and never go out anymore. I'm waiting to be beamed to a 505 but so far no luck !

Problem with Game Card

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 11:39:41 PM #
I picked up the Palm Game card today and it is causing problems. Whenever I play Zap off the card (I'm assuming it copies the program to RAM first) and then quit, I lose about 300k in RAM on the 505. Eventually after enough times my memory is gone. The only way to get it back is with a soft (or hard) reset. There is nothing in the "info" screen to show what is taking up the RAM. Palm had no idea what the problem was. I am taking it back, but wanted to know if anyone else had this problem.

RE: Problem with Game Card
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 8:18:58 AM #
HUGE STUNNER!!!! I just reproduced this on my week old USA m505. I had about 3500k left in my memory, every time I loaded Zap 2016 I lost 150k or so of memory. For the heck of it I did a soft reset and gained back 1000k of memory up to 4500k I had assume I had used. Per Launcher III 2.2 I went from 49% memory to 59% memory right on the spot. I have confirmed that only Zap 2016 doesn't release the memory, all the other games do release the memory.

The Demo download does not have this problem
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 11:03:57 AM #
nt

RE: Problem with Game Card
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 12:29:24 PM #
I have had the same problem with Zap 2016 from the Demo Download. All of the memory is not released. I noticed it first when I had about 7.3M loaded of software loaded on the my 505 and the program told me my memory was low and the progarm may nor load properly or may cause the palm to crash. I went ahead and played the demo ok, later exited out of the program and then when I went to load another program received a handler error. Upon soft rest it was ok.

RE: Problem with Game Card
dax @ 5/14/2001 11:09:56 AM #
Hi all,

We recently found this bug in the special version of
Zap!2016 which is shipped with Palm's PalmPak Games Card for the m500 and m505. The PalmPak contains a specially enhanced version of Zap!2016 which stores all of its graphics on the SD card, reducing the amount of space that the game needs to run on the device. The bug causes some of the game's temporary memory to not be released when the user quits the game and returns to the Applications screen or other applications.

This problem occurred because when games are put on ROM cards for release with a new device the software has to be developed very early and sometimes there's not enough time to understand how to use the newest features properly. Neither Palm's Quality Assurance team or Astraware's found the bug before the cards went into manufacture.

For information on how to work around this bug, see our website at:
http://www.astraware.com/support/palmpak.html

Kind regards,
David

---
David Oakley
CTO, Astraware Ltd. http://www.astraware.com/

Thanks to ChumpUSA I have two of them (one free???)

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 12:11:32 AM #
I ordered an M505 from CompUSA on 5/7, they promised it would ship the next day. On 5/8 they promised it would ship the next day. On 5/9 they promised me it would ship by Friday, so I cancelled the order.

I promptly ordered from Sparco, and it will be here on Friday. Meanwhile, the cancelled unit from ChimpUSA gets deliverd today.

According to their website, my order was cancelled, was never shipped, and my bank says they never charged my card. Anybody on Maui want a good deal on an M505??? Post here and I'll check back often.

RE: Thanks to ChumpUSA I have two of them (one free???)
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:01:54 PM #
where was it made...USA or Hungary?

RE: Thanks to ChumpUSA I have two of them (one free???)
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:11:36 PM #
It was made in Hungary. By the way, my 2 cents on the screen ... I want something readable under all lighting conditions. This is the screen! It is wonderful in a dark room and easily readable in direct sunlight. If anyone is interested, e-mail me at MAUICRUZN@AOL.COM

Avantgo won't go

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:13:28 AM #
Is anyone else having problems syncing avantgo with their m505/os 4.0? I've used avantgo with my old palm and it worked great. But now, the palm loses its hotsnync connection to my computer halfway through the avantgo download. I've tried both avantgo 3.3 and 4.0. Both times it works once after installation of avantgo, then will not sync at all after that. Any ideas?

RE: Avantgo won't go
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 11:01:10 AM #
Change your port to 443. I had the same problem.

RE: Avantgo won't go
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/17/2001 11:53:20 AM #
I had the same problem before but got that solved!
Solution:
Install an old palm desktop and overwrite by 4.0.1 in the same directory.

RE: Avantgo won't go
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 12:14:32 AM #
I have the same problem with AvantGo 4.0 and my m505. You said change your port to 443. Can you explain how to do that (on th palm or on the PC?) and how it solves the problem? I like to understand what I do.
Thanks!

Candy Store

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 7:52:07 AM #
What a treat. Who would think that the day would come when you would have a such a choice- The Powerhouse Palm, The lexus Palm, the Phone Palm, The Mom Palm, the student Palm, the internet Palm, the Module Palm, the color Palm, the executive Palm, Etc..... These are now being talked about and written about in NY TIMES,WSJ,MSNBC,USA TODAY,ETC,ETC..... I love it!!!!!!

SD Apps

Danny @ 5/11/2001 8:30:25 AM #
Does anyone know what are some good applications work from the SD Card on the 505? I have found very few.

Another question... What is the Application Icon that is labled Slot Drive Pnps App (PNP APP)? It does not seem to do anything.

RE: SD Apps
Ed @ 5/11/2001 10:00:30 AM #
> Does anyone know what are some good applications work
> from the SD Card on the 505? I have found very few.

What kinds of problems are you having? As the OS is supposed to copy the entire app into RAM and run it from there, all apps should run exactly the same as they would if they weren't on the card, aside from the delay in loading.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

RE: SD Apps
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 4:58:54 PM #
I too have had problems running apps from my SD card...the problem is not with the program itself but with the additional database files...I have contacted these third-party vendors and all know about the problem and said new versions will be out soon. I keep hearing about the MSMount software...will this fix the problem?...sounds like everytime you take the card out, you will need to reset everything.

i agree

darryl hey @ 5/11/2001 10:59:17 AM #
i went from a palm lllxe -lllc -v-back to the lllc antisipating the comming of the m505 with batted breath only to be disapointed by the screen. in day light its sweet but in office it bites. one can only hope that a better one will arrive soon. till then ill keep using me lllc.

The thing is a Piece of ....

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 11:01:27 AM #
The M505 is garbage. My wife is a palm user and I offered to get her one since her III is old and dying.

She took one look at the M505 and said, "I can read the screen of my III better- Can I keep my III?"

This was under the lights of an Office Depot.

RE: The thing is a Piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 12:30:35 PM #
Are you sure that's what she said or are you just too damn cheap to get her one? Or is she just wacked in the head? LMAO!!!

RE: The thing is a Piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 1:04:58 PM #
try turning on the backlight.

RE: The thing is a Piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 2:26:05 PM #
Simple solution -- just carry the sun everywhere you go. There are billions of stars out there, so we can each carry one around to illuminate our own m505s.


RE: The thing is a Piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 2:27:24 PM #
Now we know the REAL reason the Beatles sang, "I'll Follow the Sun!"


RE: The Beatles Rule!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 3:44:07 PM #
Its amazing how the Beatles could predict that there would be a need for the sun to follow all those owners of the m505! They were way ahead of their time, and not just musically , but from a technology standpoint. They saw a need for the sun tofollow and illuminate the m505 in order for the owner to properly read it. I hope that the Beatles have a reunion so that they can write a song on protecting oneself from the sun due to skin cancer concerns.

RE: The thing is a Piece of ....
sub_tex @ 5/11/2001 3:59:55 PM #
"Simple solution -- just carry the sun everywhere you go"

now THAT's funny........

RE: But we live in a Yellow Submarine...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 5:00:12 PM #
....where there is only sun when we surface.

Simply Bad

octane3 @ 5/11/2001 2:45:40 PM #
I was very excited about the m505 even with all the complaints about the screen. So when I found out my local Best Buy just got some in, I rushed over. ( Well over an hour drive )

They didn't have a display model but I bought one anyways. ( Especially since these where the bright "Made in USA" versions)

Got out to the car & had to open it on the nice sunny day.

Even in bright sunlight my screen was harder to read than my Palm Vx.

Colors were NOT VIVID.

I returned it immediately & ordered a Sony Clie 710C.

Sorry Palm after waiting all that time, to have you ship the units to the stores before those of us that preordered to come out with this device is shameful.

Maybe its time to leave the hardware up to licensees!

RE: Simply Bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 3:21:48 PM #
Maybe you should consider an eye exam....

W H A T
palmman @ 5/13/2001 4:36:41 PM #
The screen Rocks
It is the best!!!!

Tealmovie

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 2:53:40 PM #
Tealmovie works fine on the '505.

Check the cropping options (letterbox, etc) in
the windows convertor app. If you can't see
the video in the viewport (if its black), it
will be on the palm too..

Gary

Thanks for the info

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 3:21:40 PM #
Thanks to Ed and others who have posted useful info on this site. I'm one of those who is still waiting to receive my m505. (it's en route from amazon as I type...) I've been able to learn a lot while waiting to get mine.


BTW, I was in the market for a Vx until I heard about the new m505, so I decided on that. I've used the Vx before and liked it, but I also thought the screen was dim (the backlight often made things worse in medium-light conditions). As long as the m505 screen is about as readable as the Vx in regular light, I think I'll be happy. Anyone know how "brightness" compares in these two models? I know monochrome vs. color is hard to compare, but how about readability in normal indoor conditions?


RE: V form factor - Color vs BW
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 3:28:25 AM #
This has not been discussed enough. Of course everyone has different needs and most of us are V users I'd imagine or at least appreciate it. I have in front of me a Vx, a 505, and a Prism. In Office lighting, all do well so that is not a factor. Its the 'medium' lighting that causes V series fits. I compared them in household lighting:

Low (1 100 watt floor light):
Vx light off: Fair Vx light on: Poor
505 light off: Fair 505 light on: Good
Prism lowest: Good Prism highest: Blinding

Notes: Thats right, the Vx and the 505 look the SAME in readability with the 505 light off. It gets the job done but its not great. Again, the Prism on its lowest setting looks the SAME as the 505 with its light on (but the colors arent as good). If you want to see a 505 with its light on, lower a TFT to its lowest setting; there you go.

The 505 should be compared to the V series because of the form factor, not Prisms/IIIc. If you change from a IIIc or Prism, you still sacrifice screen for size, just as always. Only the 505's backlight actually works and the color's nice.

Around the house in Medium Lighting, the Vx is not very useful. That's one reason I went to the Prism, I was tired of not being able to read it all the time. The 505 is the same readabilty as the Vx until the lights are on, then the Vx is bad. We all know about the mono light; if it was conventional lighting ala Clie, it would be fine. With the Prism, I longed for the V form factor, but wanted better medium light quality. The 505 is the best compromise so far; it's Fair to Good under ALL conditions but excels at none (even in sunlight, I'd say its only Good). It is a good compromise, not the dream machine.

JohnC

RE: Thanks for the info
Ed @ 5/13/2001 10:37:55 AM #
John, thanks for this report. It was excellent.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: Thanks for the info
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 6:45:08 PM #
Yes, thanks, JohnC...

I was able to compare the Vx, Prism, m500, and m505 also (at the local CompUSA) and came to the same comclusion. Your comment is appreciated!

-original poster

Congratulations

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 4:13:21 PM #
Congratulations on the best review of the m505 I have read, in particular the issue of the screen quality. I think I've read them all, and your is by far the best, in my opinion.

THAT is useful information for me to base a purchase on. Thank you!

M505 is Wonderful! Best PDA so far!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 4:11:52 PM #
I purchased the M505 at Office Depot on May 2nd and absolutely love it! This is by far the best PDA, in my opinion, on the market today. The size, weight and shape are perfect for carrying in my shirt pocket. The color screen, wow!, is great. I can now color code items in my datebook, to-do list, etc. so that it is easier to discern events.

At night and in low-light, with the sidelight on, I can actually read the screen. Not so with the inverted backlight or whatever it was called on the earlier Palm models. The M505 is just as bright and vivid as in the sunlight.

Thanks Palm for making a quality machine that has color and retains the V size.

A VERY satisfied user.


I agree 1,000%!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 4:30:52 PM #
nt

RE: Mine too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 4:42:19 PM #
Me too. I picked mine up three days ago and don't see the things people complain about. I really like the color it provides.

RE: M505 is very good
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 7:49:22 PM #
No PDA on the market so far (and none that I've heard of yet) has color AND the Palm V/505 form factor.

Therefore, the m505 is the best PDA for ME.

I agree that indoors the color and readibility is only acceptable, but it's still better then black and white. Also, Palm managed to keep battery life good which was my biggest concern when I heard about the 505.

If someone wants "vivid" color (I agree with some posters that the color on the 505 is NOT vivid) then they should but a different PDA, but it WILL be bigger and/or have shorter battery life.


RE: M505 is Wonderful! Best PDA so far!
palmman @ 5/13/2001 4:39:19 PM #
Yep, Rock On

RE: M505 is Wonderful! Best PDA so far!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 8:48:39 PM #
Yeah, I totally agree. I know you probably get better color with the Sony but you have to pay $500 for the unit plus $300+ for the memory stick to play mp3. $800? is it worth it. mp3 playing on the sony is just going to drain the battery. Might just buy a separate small mp3 player for half the price.

RE: M505 is Wonderful! Best PDA so far!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2001 6:18:14 PM #
First of all, great review, Ed. This is one of the most unbiased reviews of the m505 I've read, and I agree with the analysis that a person's response to the m505 screen will generally depend on whether a smaller form factor or a vivid screen is most important to them. Personally, I think a brighter screen makes a better first impression, but the lower intensity of the m505 screen may be more practical in the long run. Adding the ability to adjust the brightness would have been the best solution for Palm.

I'm a "form factor" person, and I think the m505 screen is good. I've owned Palms since the original Pilot, and have been using a Vx since it first came out. I skipped the IIIc because although I wanted color, I just couldn't deal with the size. I've found that the major drawback of the Vx (and all the monochrome Palms) is that in certain (lower) lighting, the reflection off the screen is so strong it makes reading difficult (looking up an appointment or phone number is OK, but anything more is tiring to the eyes). The screen of the m505 improves the contrast to make it very readable under these situations.

It's been mentioned that the m505 screen is similar to that on the original Sony color Clie. Did anyone ever come up with a software or hardware hack to adjust the sidelighting (i.e brightness of the screen)? Anyone have any thoughts as to whether this will be possible?

Also, Ed mentioned that he was able to get a serial cradle for the m500 series. Where? I need one to sync with my WindowsNT computer at work, and was told by Palm that they wouldn't be available for a couple of weeks (and I haven't seen any in the stores).

Dust under the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 4:56:21 PM #
I just got my m505 from OD a few days ago and since then, a few bits of dust have appeared under the screen...anyone else with this problem?...I know I can exchange it since I just got it, but just thinking of the long term.

palm m505 screen

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 5:24:15 PM #
is palm m505 screen made of plastic?

Palm M505 screen sucks...

DigitalMonkey @ 5/11/2001 8:36:58 PM #
On Thursday May 3rd I went out to Office Depot in Berkeley,CA and was really excited to find a
new M505 just put on the shelf. I had been waiting for 2 months for it. Well after playing with it
for a full week I have to say that I liked most everything about it except for the screen. I thought
I'd get used to it after awhile, but it really just sucks! To bad cause I REALLY WANTED TO LOVE IT.
They just really screwed up when they went with the dim screen. I loaded some pictures on it and
couldn't tell the difference between the 65,536 colors and the 256 colors. The bottom line is for
$449.00 I want a better color screen. Just look at the other guys models and see how much better
theirs look. I'm sure it saves on battery power but who cares, I'm returning it and waiting for
the Sony Color Clie. Plus I get MP3 sound and microphone with that one. I've had my palm pilot Pro
since the early days and was hoping to stay in the palm family. To bad, they blew it.
Checkout the screen before you buy it, you might change your tune like I did.


No microphone
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 11:19:34 PM #
>> I'm returning it and waiting for the Sony Color Clie. Plus I get MP3 sound and microphone with that one <<

Sorry, the Clie doesn't have a microphone. You might be thinking of the HandEra that's also coming out soon and does have one.

The Clie can record!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 1:44:46 AM #
The Sony DOES have recording capabilities!!

This is from their site: mentions "recording time"

- Audio Specifications
Frequency: 20Hz – 20,000Hz
Media: Memory Stick card
Recording format: ATRAC3 and MP3
Max Recording Time4: Approx. 120 min (132kbps); Approx. 160 min (105kbps); Approx. 240 min ( 66kbps)
Battery Life (Audio Playback5): Approx. 11 hours (Display off)/Approx. 3 hours (Display on)

And this is from the Businessweek's review of the Clie

"One thing is certain: To use the music player, you'll need a lot more memory than the 8 megabyte Memory Stick that comes with the CLIE. That will only give you about 15 minutes of medium-quality music, although it should allow about an hour's worth of storage using the built-in voice recorder."

Read the rest of their review here:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_20/b3732044.htm

So apparently the Clie does have a voice recorder, although I'm still not 100% certain. However, unlike the HandEra, the Clie does not have a built-in speaker, so you will have to listen to playback with earphones.

BUT!!

The HandEra does not allow due functioning...you can't listen to a recording and use PDA function. The Clie does have due functioning, you can playback a recording or MP3 AND use the PDA. Although, this puts a massive drain on the batteries.

RE: Palm M505 screen sucks...
dteky @ 5/12/2001 1:53:18 AM #
My friend...as the old saying goes..."the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence". I have paid hundreds and hundres of dollors on previous Palm models. I can recall paying $449 for the Palm V with 2 megs mono...price dropped then the Vx with 8 megs and now m505, color and infinite memory and i/o hardware expansion for the SAME price of $449. The price has always been the same. Yet technology has improved tremendously. Palm started 5 years ago...and got it right in one shot. Micro$oft failed miserably time and time again. Sony following the foot step/foundation that Palm has setforth still failed with the first mono/color unit! So if you think that the grass is "greener" on the other side...take a closer look and you will find that you indeed have grass that are green and yes in some cases it's much greener. I have preached this before...I just want to reiterate that I have flirted with many other "devices" (iPaq, Casio, HP, all the Palms etc.) yet in the end I always return to my roots.

I do want to make one other observation:
1-KISS (keep it simple stupid) time and time again I always thought that more was better. I found that this wasn't the case. In my humble opinion, with a handheld device...less is more.

2-Look at the "mass" population: you've got mother, students, house wives, etc... (mass majority) don't care for all the "features". It's wise of Palm to take this approach because the want to reach out to a horizontal market. What you techy needs is something like the Handera/TRG which is more of a vertical market.

Keep in mind that Palm has consistently keeped it's price the same. The only time that the price of a model drops is when Palm releases a new model not because of Sony or Compaq etc... Observe the price of the first Clie...where is it at now? The new CLie is priced at $500. iPaq was $499 and now $599 for 32 megs and $649 64 megs. Everybody's price seems to fluctuate but Palm has always been consistent. Now let me ask one last question, will the vast majority pay upwards of $500+ for a PDA that does everything?

m505 vs Sony Clie

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 10:04:32 PM #
over the course of this whole palm screen vs sony deal, i have read a lot of posts on many sites, with people saying two different things, screen sucks, im going with sony, and screen is great, this is the best ever. in my opinion, these two devices are for different markets.

if the primary thing you want out of it is an organizer that is small and very usable, then m505 is for you, and the screen is fine. if you want a cool toy that will also help you get organized, then the sony is for you.

also, i feel that the sony is competing more with the ipaq. in my decision to get an m505 (and im happy with it), i chose that the ipaq was more of a cool toy with lots of really neat features. thats kind of how i feel about the sony too.

well, thats just how i feel. anyone agree?


RE: m505 vs Sony Clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2001 11:31:56 PM #
No, I disagree with your opinion. I have used the Japanese version of the color CLIE, and it is almost as small as the m505. In fact, several people have said it fits their hands better than the Palm, but that's a personal preference. The Sony is also very light (just 1.5 ounces more than the m505, and light enough to be easily carried everywhere).

But most importantly, it has an excellent screen. The screen is how you interact with your PDA, and a poor screen makes for a poor PDA - no matter what other attributes the m505 possesses. I actually prefer using the Vx monochrome screen instead of the m505 - it's not a crisp screen when used in typical indoor lighting. I am amazed by the number of people who are trying to rationalize their choice of the m505.

To each their own. If you want a dim-screened PDA
without MP3 capability and for $50 less, by all means get an m505. It's just that it would be a shame to see a lot of people make an ill-informed choice and end up with a handheld they end up disliking.

My advive to everyone considering getting a new PDA: don't buy one until you have at least tried the CLIE N710C. It's that good.

Don't say you weren't warned.

RE: m505 vs Sony Clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 12:48:11 AM #
True. The new Sony makes the m505 look like a joke. Palm is probably going to have to drop the price by $100 to get people to buy this lemon.

Not to mention there are already reports of returns due to quality control problems - ironically, primarily in American-made models.

RE: m505 vs Sony Clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 7:04:24 AM #
Doesnt the CLIE's increased resolution slow down the app refresh rate?


RE: m505 vs Sony Clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/6/2002 1:18:31 AM #
Palm SUCKS! After m505, there was m515 which actually makes the screen better. And it's making you so bothered that you would die to have the new one.
I would rather go for a Sony Clie. It has everything Palm has, and even the ones it doesn't have.

Question for ED about M505 from Hungary

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 12:10:56 AM #
i bought a 505 that was made in the US, exchanged it about nine days later for one from Hungary. My question is this.1)maybe its me but it does seem like the screen is dimmer on the unit from Hungary. 2)the two sides of the screen do not seem to be at the same brightness level. 3) the grafitti part seems like it fades as it nears the bottom of the unit.
Despite all the reviews i've read about the country of manufacture and the screen quality, i still like the 505 and DO intend on keeping it. IMHO nothing beats the size, i started off with a philips nino but never carried it around cos of its bulk.
Not to get off topic, Ed if you can, please let me know if there're any differences in the units assembled in the US and those from Hungary.
Thanks.

Albert

I hear the Hungarian m505s smell kinda funny...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 12:27:54 AM #
And sparks fly outta the SD slot it you have to do a hard reset.

And the screens only show 43 colors.

And the stylus is a rusty nail.

And the battery is corroded.

And the paint is peeling.

And the screen is warped.

And the display is dimmer. Maybe. But at least the Memo Pad Contrast Hack works...

And it growled at me yesterday.

And I don't like the way it was looking at my girlfriend last night.

And it tried to bite me.

And... (others reading, please continue the list)


GET A CLUE YOU MORONS. THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PALMS ASSEMBLED IN THE USA, HUNGARY, ROMANIA, HUNGARIA, SERBIA, TIBET, RUSSIA, CHINA, PLUTO, MEXICO, THE NORTH POLE, MARS, INDIA, THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON OR VENEZUELA. THE SWEDISH M505S DO HAVE A VERY NICE DISPLAY, THOUGH.


RE: Question for ED about M505 from Hungary
Ed @ 5/12/2001 8:35:09 AM #
I've already said everything I know in my earlier post on this. Look for it under the 'Ed - USA or Hungary??" thread on this page.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: I hear the Hungarian m505s smell kinda funny...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/16/2001 6:14:59 AM #
Is it true that the Hungarian m505s are poorly-built?

RE: Question for ED about M505 from Hungary
palmman @ 5/17/2001 12:55:48 AM #
The Hungary Units are the same. I heve a Hungary unit and it works soooo good. THEY ARE THE SAME!!!


--------
-Palmman

oh, come on.

fire&ice @ 5/12/2001 10:22:10 AM #
All people do is complain about the screen. Enough already! Leave the backlight on, and it's perfectly OK.
RE: oh, come on.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 11:01:08 AM #
no it isnt OK it sucks it is washed out and is very dim compared to the vibrant handheld color screens of other models

RE: oh, come on.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 11:17:46 AM #
compared to the color of MUCH BIGGER PDAs

Do You Even Have a M505
palmman @ 5/13/2001 4:42:20 PM #
If u had a m505 u wound leave the backlight on!!!
Come On

RE: oh, come on.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 6:42:14 PM #

The M505 is Wonderful

Patrick Andrews @ 5/12/2001 1:34:23 PM #
Having tested the HP Journado 525, the Sony Clie and havinq used the Palm IIIc for the past year, I was prepared to be critical of this unit. Fact is - it is by far the best I have used. From the excellent looks to the fine performance - I give it a definite buy recommendation.
Yes the screen isnt as bright as the others but with the sidelight on it is highly legible. (Much like the Clies excellent backlight.
I use these units for heavy industrial sales and engineering work and based on what these things are really for, the Palm OS is more user friendly than the Microsoft CE approach.
RE: The M505 is Wonderful
palmman @ 5/13/2001 4:44:37 PM #
Right On

Killed My m505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 2:10:31 PM #
Touched my m505 in the cradle on Friday, and had very small spark of static electricity. After that, every time I turned on my 505, it either did a soft reset or a hard reset! (Hungary model). Returned it to Office Depot this AM. Ed, now I'm contemplating waiting for the color Sony. Can you give me some insignt on how the Sony memory sticks compare with the Palm SD cards? Are there more aps going to be availble on one or the other. I've been a long time Palm user, and have no idea how the Sony sticks work, or what's avaialble.
Your thoughts? Thanks!!

RE: Killed My m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 3:01:10 PM #
I changed my order to a Color Clie. After learning that the Palm had a 160x160 display I made a change for $50 more. Now that I did, I can't believe the multimedia capabilities. While using your Clie you can be listening to music. I hope the industry comes down hard on SONY's pricing policy for Memory Sticks. Otherwise the public will be calling foul-play monopolistic strategies. My Clie ships May 28 with two-day shipping at a fee of under $6.

RE: Killed My m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 11:32:57 PM #
Stop complaining about the price of Memory Sticks!
It's only $79.04 for a 64mb SONY memory stick (MSA-64A) at: http://www.thenerds.net
That's only a few dollars more than the cheapest
64mb MMC card, and than ANY 64mb SD card!!!

Color and Palm OS 4.0

Cheetah @ 5/12/2001 8:00:51 PM #
With all the talk about the color screen, everyone's lost sight of why we would want color.

I think the color screen is fine on the 505 (yes, I would like it brighter, but it's ok), but what really disappoints me is the lack of use of color within the OS. Palm has had plenty of time to use color in it's main applications, but the only thing I've found are:

- color icons
- color tab header
- color highlight
- color calc and games

BUT there is no use of color anywhere in the calendar, memo pad, to do list, address book, etc.

It would be nice to be able to highlight a word or to do item in red or blue, but as far as I can see there is no way to do this.

I even got the US Cities card (which I got free at Office Depot when I went with my receipt and asked for it with their latest ad in hand). I was anxious to finally have a reason to have color (besides the great games Galax and Froggy, etc.) but was disappointed when the maps weren't in color (and nothing else in the application either). I figured maps was one of the true reasons to justify having color.

Why would Palm itself launch their new color PDA with an application that would truely benefit from color, but not even spend the time to update it?

Happy with my 505, but...

RE: Color and Palm OS 4.0
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2001 8:12:49 PM #
I haven't seen it myself, but you're right. It would be ludicrous if Palm neglected color options in the basic applications with OS 4.0 on the M505. Even if it wouldn't have been usable in the M500, there could have been a choice in the preferences to "enable" color options. Geez, I figured it already had the capability of highlighting appointments, text, times, etc. in color. Otherwise, (except for games, graphics, etc.) why even bother with a color screen? The point was to use the color to give items more contrast and make them stand out against the monochrome background! If what you say is true, this is really stupid.

At least you can use DateBk4 and get the color working for you!

RE: Color and Palm OS 4.0
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 3:11:59 AM #
Try an application called "Chrome" at palmgear.com. It lets you adjust color in almost every part of the Palm. Rgiht now, I have a jetblack background with bright white letters and red trim around the edges. LOOKS GREAT!

RE: Color and Palm OS 4.0
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2001 9:13:32 PM #
Sorry, that wasn't the point. The first message was about having color options for text and other items that one could highlight to make them stand out in the standard Palm apps. For example, let's say you wanted specific words bolded so that you'd know they were highlighting especially urgent stuff. Let's say you would like to color urgent appointments with red text, family appointments with green text, doctor's appointments with purple, meetings with blue, etc. You know what I mean? Why aren't simple options like that available in OS 4?

RE: Color and Palm OS 4.0
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 12:19:23 AM #
Actually, you buy Action Names (last version is 4.56)as I did: one of the best application so far (even better than Datebk4) that integrates very well with the Palm apps. You'll have color icons, and text color preferences for your different types of meeting.

Problems Beaming?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 12:05:19 AM #
I just got my m505 and it seems to have trouble beaming to older devices. I upgraded from a Palm Professional that has a Palm III upgrade card in it (so it has an IR port). When I try to beam from the 505 to the older unit, It appears to connect - the upgraded Pro gets a box that says 'waiting for sender', but then the 505 switches from "searching" to "Could not find a receiving handheld computer".

Going the other way (III to 505), the 505 doesn't even answer - the upgraded Pro just says "Searching", and gives up after a little while.

The frustrating part is that this does not happen every time. As near as I can tell, the size of the information to be beamed makes a difference, and more often than not, it seems to fail more often the "second" time I try a beam after the 505 has been turned on. No, I haven't tried a soft reset between beaming attempts.

And, yes, the units are facing each other, and the IR ports are almost close enough to kiss. I've never had a problem like this with any other units - I've beamed between my upgraded Pro and a V, and it worked great. It's also worked with a Hanspring Visor Platinum 100% as expected. I have not had an opportunity to test the 505 against any other machines.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar with beaming to/from older models? If not, do I have a defective unit that I need to replace?

Thanks.

-Kevin
kevin@glengroup.com

RE: Problems Beaming?
palmman @ 5/13/2001 4:48:50 PM #
That is Werd

RE: Problems Beaming?
bcoignard @ 5/13/2001 9:33:31 PM #
I had problems beaming from my new m505 to a Visor Prism 3 days ago (it kept disconnecting during transfers), then tried to beam to my old Palm III (with OS 3.5) in the evening. I then had no problems at all.

Weird it is...


RE: Problems Beaming?
palmman @ 5/14/2001 3:16:57 PM #
Today I Beamed programs to a visor Delux with no problems. Is there something worng in Palm os4 or in the m505


--------
-Palmman

MMC: read only, SD: read/write?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 1:00:33 AM #
Actually 2 questions:
1) Can you edit or add data to MMC or SD cards? If so which? I thought I read something saying that only SD cards are writable.
2) If programs on expansion cards truly must be launched into RAM in order to run, then how do we run larger (4 MB, or even 9MB) programs / databases? Do we have to keep our RAM empty? And if the program is larger than 8 MB, does that mean it won't run? Believe it or not, many popular medical programs are several MB large!

Running apps from the SD/MMC card.

Martin @ 5/13/2001 1:11:56 AM #
Regarding Palm's 'inelegant' solution to running apps from the expansion card... This isn't going to change.

The card is Storage. Just like a floppy disk or a hard drive in your home computer. Programs or data that are in Storage must be loaded (copied) in to RAM to be used. When you first start a program on your home computer there is generally a short delay before it starts. This is because it is loading into RAM, from Storage. On older computers there was often a longer delay, especially if you were loading from a floppy. One solution to these slow access times from storage media was to create a virtual storage system in RAM (called a RAMDisk in DOS.) Access to data that had been copied into the RAMDisk was _much_ faster than access to a real disk, because it was already in RAM. The reason running apps from a SD/MMC card seems slow is because we are basically taking a step backward in data access. The 2 or 4 or 8 MB of ram in your PalmOS device is effectively a RAMDisk. All of the apps and data are in RAM all the time and immediately accessible. Programs on the card must be copied from ram to run. The SD standard is capable of transfering data faster that what you are seeing on the Palm 50x. What is currently limiting the transfer speed is the CPU in the device. When Palm switches from the Dragonball processor to the ARM processor SD transfer speeds will improve dramatically. Programs like MSMount are better because it only copies data that is immediately needed, rather than an entire database, but the some copying will always be needed. As the processors and storage media get faster the wait will lessen. Just as it did on desktop computers.

Correction...

Martin @ 5/13/2001 1:20:18 AM #
In my previous post I meant to say "Programs on the card must be copied _to_ RAM." not "from RAM".

Kinda hard to review your comments in the tiny text entry window they give you. :)

Can no longer HotSync

OldMatador @ 5/13/2001 8:01:06 AM #
So I got my m505 from Outpost.com on Friday, and all was well. I had no problem with the screen.
I was actually doing a lot with it. On Saturday, I try to HotSync a new program, and it failed. My
Palm's charging, so The Palm's connection was fine. I have my old Palm V with a USB Connection,
and when I tried HotSyncing that, it went through without problems, telling me it wasn't the
HotSync Manager.

To make a long story short, I centered the problem around the USB connector on the cradle. For
some reason, my computer won't recognize that I have a Palm connected to it anymore. I
checked to see if my USB ports were fine, and lo and behold, they were.

So, by deductive reasoning, the cradle's to blame. Now my unit was assembled in Hungary. I don't
know if the cradles were, as well, though. Something tells me the USB connector in the cradle
shorted out. Has anyone else had this problem? If they have, is my only solution to replace the
cradle?

BTW, the m505 functions fine. I've had no problems with the unit itself. I hope Palm or some other
company would make digital speakers for it, though. I mean, it doesn't make any sense to have the
capability to play videos without sound. I got the CrDiamond program that gives me the sidelight
whenever I turn on the unit, and that's fine. I like the fact that the screen isn't as bright as the
IIIc because when I was using my sister's IIIc, my eyes got strained really fast.


--
Bill Lehecka
http://www.oldmatador.com/letterman/

Some Hacks/Apps may interfere with OS 4.0 HotSync
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 9:47:46 AM #
Try removing Hacks/Apps down to Main Factory Apps and then try to HotSync. BTW - I like EasyView better than Crazy Diamond. Smaller and less buggy.

RE: Can no longer HotSync
OldMatador @ 5/14/2001 1:06:16 PM #
The funniest thing happened: I tried HotSyncing on a whim Sunday afternoon (well after following
your instructions and failing at the time), and it worked. Don't know why, it just did. It just made
me look like a fool to everyone here.

I do hope a company or a programmer (or, heh, Palm themselves) comes out with a contrast
program for the m505, because I'm noticing that the battery likes to go down quickly with the
sidelight on, and I could get by with using a slightly dimmer sidelight. I don't have a problem with
Palm giving the dimmer screen as a default, but they should have accounted for the people who
would say this screen wasn't up to snuff. Rather than complaining about the screen, I use the
sidelight and the screen looks fine, but I would like the ability to control the brightness of the
light.

--
Bill Lehecka
http://www.oldmatador.com/letterman/

You're welcome.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2001 8:33:04 AM #
nttt

505 cradle insert resets Win2000 ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/13/2001 12:05:04 PM #
Hi,

This has happened twice now to me. I've set my 505 carefully into the cradle and poof my PC reboots. I'm using win2000 prof, sp 1. No errors reported and all is fine but this is freaking me out. Anyone else have this issue? On a side note all I'm doing is placing the unit into the cradle, no hotsync, no new software adds...nothing. Thanks.

-joe-

RE: 505 cradle insert resets Win2000 ?
palmman @ 5/14/2001 3:36:20 PM #
You are Using Windows 2000, No wonder you have this problem. Try to hotsync on anoter OS that is not made by Microsoft!


--------
-Palmman
RE: 505 cradle insert resets Win2000 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2001 9:54:54 PM #

Although I am a Unix advocate, your reply is pretty pathetic and almost too expected. I was hoping for some help, no O/S criticism.

-joe-

RE: 505 cradle insert resets Win2000 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2001 11:55:53 PM #
Ok if u want real help Try checking the bios usb conf and look at the usb drivers in windows. if that fales call palm. sounds like a softwere prob.

p.s. what hapens when u use other usb devices

RE: 505 cradle insert resets Win2000 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/27/2001 5:35:50 PM #
Try SP2. Not sure if it would fix it. But it did clear up a few HW related problems on my PC.
Just make sure you do a complete back-up before you run SP2. My experience with SP2 can be summed in one word: Hell.

Best Program for Auto-On light for m505?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2001 12:44:49 PM #
I was looking for the best program to use to turn the light on for a palm m505 when you turn the unit on?

some mentioned glowhack, others CrDiamond? Are there differences between the programs?

Has anyone had any problems with these programs? And are they "undo-able"?

Thanks!

RE: Best Program for Auto-On light for m505?
Davy @ 5/14/2001 7:06:31 PM #
CR Diamond is a very cool, easy to use, stand alone program that works. Go with that, it's color, and it's cool.

EASYVIEW is better. Thinner and less buggy!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2001 8:31:33 AM #
set to 00/00

RE: Best Program for Auto-On light for m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2001 8:49:21 AM #
what do you mean by buggy?
which is easier to use?


RE: Best Program for Auto-On light for m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/24/2001 4:55:03 PM #
There's a new Hack called Sidelight, you can find it on Palmgear: very nice! It was updated today to version 1.1
-----
Remembers and restores the screen light state of your Palm. Also allows you to toggle the light on and off with a tap of the stylus.
Notes:
(1) Although written for the m505, it should work fine on any Palm model that has an on/off type screen light. (On the IIIc, it brings up the brightness adjust dialog.)
(2) It is not compatible with Jot and may have problems with other grafitti area hacks/extensions. For a similar hack that simply remembers/restores the light state, see Justin R. Cutler's "Keep Lit Hack."
-----
Update Description
Now able to remember the power button toggle!


About the PALMPIX Camera for PALM m505

palmman @ 5/14/2001 2:42:06 PM #
I GOT A M505
(I Love the screen)
Well now it is time to find PALMPIX Camera for PALM m500. I cant seem To find it. If anyone knows were I can get it I will be verry pleased!!! Is anyone Have it and could tell me how good it is? Thanks
-Palmman

RE: About the PALMPIX Camera for PALM m505
Ed @ 5/14/2001 3:00:51 PM #
Read this:
New Accessories for New Handhelds
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1919

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: About the PALMPIX Camera for PALM m505
palmman @ 5/14/2001 3:11:54 PM #
Thanks ed



--------
-Palmman

Stiff top scroll button on my m505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/14/2001 11:57:11 PM #
Ed,

Great review. I have a question to ask you.

The scroll buttons on my m505 feel different. The top button is tight. It doesn't have the nice click I get with the bottom button. Is anyone else's like that or just mine?

-Andrew


RE: Stiff top scroll button on my m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2001 12:44:51 AM #
Mine feels the same way as yours

You guys must have one of those defective Hungary units.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2001 8:30:08 AM #
nttt

RE: Stiff top scroll button on my m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/21/2001 11:50:26 AM #
My scroll buttons just broke yesterday. Now the top (up) button
does the same thing as the botton (down) button. Actually, if I
put some pressure on it in the up direction, it will scroll up when it
repeats -- otherwise it just scrolls down.

Also, now, if I put some pressure on the edge of the bottom button, it
gets "stuck", and keeps repeating forever (even after I remove my
finger).

I'm going to have to return the unit. It was built in Hungary.

RE: Stiff top scroll button on my m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/27/2001 5:40:32 PM #
Are the buttons still better than the rocker button on the Vx? The top button is easy to press, but the bottom one is harder, combine that with the fact that it's on a slope, and I have a leatehr case which surrounds the buttons, it's not the easiest thing to scroll with. I'm not sure about other Vx's.

PowerRun works on m505 too!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/15/2001 2:00:34 PM #
I've been playing around with some other Sony Clie programs since last night and have put together a bunch of tips/instructions for making your SD/MMC cards work much much better.

Using this method...

1) Your applications will now show in ANY launcher including LauncherIII, LaunchEm, SilverScreen Chromacast etc.... No need to wait for an update to your favorite launcher.

2) Ever notice how every time you switch to the Expansion Card you have a long wait time while it reads the card. Using this method and a third party launcher...problem eliminated...switch launcher screens as fast as you can tap :)

3) You can now keep your SD/MMC applications in Categories just like your programs in main Ram. AND...they remember their categories, I tried this with many launchers last night. No more big long messy list of apps.

4) Notice how the PhotoSuite app takes forever to launch because it's scanning the card for your Pics & Videos. Setup PhotoSuite like I'll explain below and you can launch and flip through your Pics much faster!

But wait...that's not all, Act right now and....Ok I got a bit carried away BUT this works great and I've had ZERO crashes after hours of testing all while running 7 hacks too. ;)


Links to the programs you need are at the end of this post BTW.

First you have 2 options. You can use PowerRun 30 or PowerRun 46. Version 30 allows you to put your applications on the SD card. Version 46 puts your applications & databases on the card. It's your choice as to which version you want to use. PowerRun30 is a bit quicker when exiting your applications but PowerRun46 automatically moves around and updates your databases too. If you're wondering, I'm using version 46.

Step 1

-If you're using PowerRun 30 you need to use McFile and make a directory on your SD/MMC card with the path "/Palm/Programs/Msfiles"

-If you're using PowerRun 46 you don't need to make a directory...version 46 will make it's own.

Step 2
- for PowerRun 30 users - Use McFile and move your programs to the "/Palm/Programs/Msfiles" directory you created in Step 1. When you finish moving your programs, exit McFile and run PowerRun30. Refresh the list and it will scan that directory. When you now exit PowerRun30 you'll see all the programs you moved in your "UnFiled" category. Notice the little label on the corner of the icon? You'll also see an asterisk at the end of the name. You can now file these in the Categories you want them in. If you're using a 3rd party launcher even better; you'll never have to flip through that "Expansion Card" category again. Any time you add applications to the "/Palm/Programs/Msfiles" directory you need to run PowerRun 30 and REFRESH the list. Don't worry, the categories you already set will still be there.

- for PowerRun 46 users - With this version if you already have the application on the SD/MMC card then you MUST move it into the Palm RAM first. When you are ready you can run PowerRun 46 and it will Automatically create the needed directory on your SD card. You then switch to the Palm RAM listing using the drop down box in the upper-right corner. Highlight what you want to put on the SD card and press "Move". PowerRun 46 will automatically move the application and ALL of it's Databases to the SD card. For example I highlighted the game "Solaski" and pressed "Move", PowerRun46 then moved the main Solaski application AND it's database into the SD card.
Once you are done moving your applications you can exit out of PowerRun46 and use your favorite launcher.
You'll see all the programs you moved in your "UnFiled" category. Notice the little label on the corner of the icon? You'll also see an asterisk at the end of the name. You can now file these in the Categories you want them in and they'll stay there. Anytime you want to add a new application just open up PowerRun46 and Move it; go back to your launcher and your new app will be there.

Where PowerRun46 differs from version 30 is that it also moves the databases associated with the application/game in and out of the Palm's RAM automatically. For example... I launch a game by tapping on the icon in my favorite launcher, The game and all of it's databases are automatically moved into the Palm's RAM. When I exit the game PowerRun46 automatically writes back any databases that have been modified and deletes the program and unmodified databases from RAM. No need to write stuff back that hasn't changed right :)

This all happens very quickly and after having used this on many programs since yesterday I can tell you that apps launch faster than with the built in OS4 method.

**Just like with the default OS4 method you need to have open RAM to run the programs..you can use an excellent program called PopUp Time to check your RAM levels. As long as you have a meg or so free you should be fine** PopUp Time can be found at the same place as LauncherIII ... http://www.benc.hr

-------------------------------------
Speed up trick for PhotoSuite
-------------------------------------
- Read my other thread on using MsMount which I linked to below

- Use McFile to move all your Pictures/Videos to the mounted directory THEN disable and re-enable MsMount from the Prefs screen. This will refresh the mounted directory. This needs to be done anytime you add or delete something from your mounted directory.

-Put PhotoSuite on the SD card using whichever version of PowerRun you decided to use.

-Go to your launcher and start PhotoSuite. All your pictures and videos will appear much faster, you can flip through them faster and big Picture/videos will be cached into RAM as needed automatically by MSmount. This method has made Photosuite very usable. Up until using this method I was ready to delete the thing off my m505 because it was so painfully slow ;)

Hope this all makes sense, if there's questions fire away!

PowerRun 30
http://clie.idv.tw/open.asp?id=113

PowerRun 46
http://clie.idv.tw/open.asp?id=156

McFile
http://www.muchy.com/review/mcfile.html

MsMount
http://www.geocities.com/nagamatu/MSMount

My other thread on MsMount
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20871

BTW... Many thanks to Hacker Dude-San who is the programmer of PowerRun. You can visit his website at http://www.simple-palm.com

RE: PowerRun works on m505 too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/16/2001 8:10:35 PM #
Thanks for the excellent tip on Power Run!

I set my m505 up today with this!

I noticed that this is a beta version that says it will expire 5/31/2001.

I want to find out where I can find out more info on this app and where I can download new updates.

Hacker Dude-San doesn't seem to mention Power Run on his websites at all.

Thanks,
Bob
bhughes@dowco.com


RE: PowerRun works on m505 too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/17/2001 4:50:05 AM #
Bob,

This site should always have the newest version

http://gxonline.uhome.net/scughk/cliefiles.html

Jim

RE: PowerRun works on m505 too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/17/2001 12:05:41 PM #
Thanks for the URL, Jim.

Do you know if Hacker-San Dude plans to release this as a shareware app, or freeware app?

Also, do you know how to contact him (i.e. his e-mail address)? All of the docs are in Japanese.

Thanks,
Bob

RE: PowerRun works on m505 too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/17/2001 1:20:18 PM #
Don't know but up until this point it's been freeware.

Another source for the updates is

http://euroclie.free.fr/idx_uk.html

and his email is yamada.tatsushi@nifty.ne.jp

He also posts on the Clie & Palm m50x forums at

http://www.palmblvd.com/boards/index.html

If you want, my original thread on all of this is at Brighthand.com

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21643

and...

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20871

Good luck

RE: PowerRun works on m505 too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/18/2001 11:02:33 AM #
Thanks again & best regards,
Bob

Dust Problem with M505....

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/16/2001 1:10:10 AM #
I have a dust particles resided on the screen, when I turned on the front light, the dust particles actually got illuminated and become a bright dot on the screen. I was wondering how many people got this problem with their M505? A good method to check your screen is to create a pitch black picture and view it with the Fireviewer or any other picture viewer with the side light turned on. You will be surprise how much dust resided on your M505 screen... Anyway, please reply if you see the dust on your screen, I like find out how many of your M505 owner share this problem... Thanks

RE: Dust Problem with M505....
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/16/2001 3:38:26 AM #

Dust, dark, expensive, low resolution (160x160)
What a poeme...

I think I'm going to order a XTRA-XTRA PRO and go away 2 years more with my IIIx.

Dave from BCN

m505 from inside pictures and review

bcoignard @ 5/16/2001 9:37:16 PM #
is available at http://www.pdaforum.de/m505/
Great review, but in German. Pictures are high resolution so you will be able to review each component. BTW, the m505 screen is made by Sony (at least for the model they reviewed).


RE: m505 from inside pictures and review
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/17/2001 1:11:02 PM #
The article states the Palm m505 probably uses screens from several different manufacturers. It is similar to the old Sony screen that Sony decided was too dull to release in North America. (That's why the color Sony S500 was never released outside Japan.)

Why Palm then decided this screen was good enough to use in their most expensive PDA is the question that everyone's asking.

RE: m505 from inside pictures and review
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/23/2001 7:36:10 PM #
Sony is smarter than PALM !
I always wondered why the colored version of the first Clie never showed up - now i know....
The 505 screen is to me as i used a IIIc up to now just a huge step back. Probably i will resell it and use my IIIc again cause i do NOT feel like looking for some light before i am able to read on my screen...

filled with thougts

E.R. @ 5/18/2001 8:45:21 AM #
what about giving ys a bit more 'statics' from what people sed about ur palm. u have a mac and we all have a P.C....

m505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/23/2001 6:54:55 PM #
Sorry aber der m505 ist ein Rückschritt!
Die PALM Phiosophie "keep it simple" wurde verlassen oder wie sonst läßt sich erklären daß ich
-für das WEB Clipping plötzlich eine User ID brauche ???
-für die Dial Funktion aus dem Adressbuch unter OS 4.0 einen "Treiber" für die IrDa Schnittstelle meines Handys brauche?
(Vor 4 Jahren ging das mit PhoneManager von SmartCode einem Pilot Professional und einem Ericsson vieeel einfacher)
Zusätzlcih gibt es gerade mal für ein paar Nokias die Treiber und sonst LEERE!
-er dauernd abstürzt ohne ersichtlcihen Grund. Jeder 3er war schon stabiler als jeder Ver aber der m505 hat MS Qualitäten....
-die angebliche Multisprxhfähigkeit zwar im Handbuch steht aber nciht vorhanden ist...

Und dann das Display: Wer wie ich bisher mit einem 3c gearbeitet hat wird schlciht verrückt. Ständig die Suche nach einer Lichtquelle im Büro oder in jedem anderen Raum da sonst nix geht. Das es in der Sonne besser ist als das hintergrunbeleuchtete Display des 3 c stimmt aber in den 14 Monaten mit dem 3c hat mich dessen schlechte Sicht unter Sonnenlicht vielleicht 4 mal genervt. Der m505 nervt täglci bei jeder Anwendung es sei denn ich steh gerade in der prallen Sonne. Vielleicht liegt es daran das die Entwickler aus Kalifornien kommen wo immer Sonne ist....
Die Karte unter den Kategorien unterzubringen und die Info als Icon ist doch auch ziehmlich seltsam. Natürlich hätte der Zugriff auf die Karte und die dort gespeicherten Programme via Icon laufen müssen und die Info in die allgemeine INFO integriert gehört. Das soll einer verstehen. Sehr schade.
Ich werde den m505 verkaufen und den 3c reaktivieren und zwar unter OS 3.5 es sei denn es kommt kurzfristig ein Hack zur Intensivierung der Farben, zur Regelung des Kontrasts und zum boosten des Seitenlichts....

Mathias Berkel
PalmPionier

Love the M505 !

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/24/2001 5:38:35 PM #
There were ao many bad view's on the m505 screen and the back light thing that there was not much room for the good side of the m505.......Yeah the backlight and the color's could be much more bright when viewing at .....But i have my m505 for about two week's now and it work's great in the sunlight are any kinda of bright light.....I need to use the palm when am on the road so i sit in my car a lot looking up the address book are writeing down note's are even playing a game are so with my kid's.....I dont need to use the back light at all.....The only time i seem to use the back light is when am in a low light place...The m505 is not use as a flash light anyway's.. :P It's to keep your life togetter in one place.....

RE: Love the M505 !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/24/2001 6:11:58 PM #
oh yeah my m505 was assembled in Hungary and when i have the back light on.....It light's up my whole screen from top to bottom from side to side...And the graffiti area is also well lit up......And it seem to be a well made unit.....So far am very happy with the M505......... :P

RE: Love the M505 !
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/19/2001 4:27:07 PM #
did u have a problem with the note pad? i was not able to enter more than 2 lines on it. when i hit the retun key, it never moved? ? any suggestions?

RE: Love the M505 !
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/19/2001 6:28:45 PM #
In the main menu there is another apllication called note pad. This is what you are looking for . The 505 has set the hard button to note pad. You can change your button to memo pad by going to prefrences in the main menu / at the top of the screen there is a small arrow point down / tap that arrow / tap buttons / and you can select what you want your hard buttons to pull up.

M505 Screen

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:09:03 AM #
I do agree with you regarding the screen. I currently have the Visor Prism and the color is just more vibrant and clear.. As for the Sony Clie PEG-N710C , It shows that it doesn't support a Macintosh set-up. Any info on this will be helpful. I have virtual PC. Will it work on that and will I be able to transfer all my data to the Sony...Thanks,,,

RE: M505 Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 1:16:09 AM #
clie n710c does compatable with Mac if you use this software from http://www.markspace.com/ check it out, cost about $30. Currently working for clie S300. I don't see why it doesn't work for n710.

good luck

Word/Excel file viewing

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2001 12:58:18 PM #
Just got my M505 from Best Buy ($430, plenty in stock) after cancelling my pre-order from palm.com... Question - I was all excited about the M500 series ability to view/alter Word and Excel files out of the box, but cannot figure out how to do it. My expectation was that I'd be able to open email attachments after synching with my computer, but I don't see any mention of this in the documentation. Any ideas..?

RE: Word/Excel file viewing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2001 10:33:19 PM #
On the CD, in a directory \Bonus Software\DocumentsToGo, run setup.exe

This will install the DTG conduit, double click it and add your docs. They will be sync'd

RE: Word/Excel file viewing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2001 5:22:29 PM #
and then after that go to their website and get the free update.

the screen of the m505 is the *only* viable screen right now

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2001 9:01:55 AM #
What do *you* use a PDA for? I mainly use it *wherever* I am. Bus stations, in a train, in a park, at the office, in bed (for reading) - everywhere. The screen of older PDAs (IIIc, prism) just does *not work* in bright sun glare. The screen used in the m505 is the best thing I've ever seen as a color lcd display for that one reason. ever before i said: 'buy the greyscale version, or you won't be able to actually *use* your pda.' but now, there's the m505. it's just great, i want such a reflective display on my Titanium PowerBook G4!

check the Clie.I have the m505 but the Clie has best screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2001 9:33:57 AM #
.

THIS LONG DEBATE - Here are some answers

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2001 4:22:13 PM #
Palm M505 is a great product from what I have heard and seen the screen is great with the light on and outside. Not to mention that the software on the M505 is some of the best written for the platform. Color CLIE what can I say from all reviews I have heard they are mostly positive on the machine. Why because it has 320x320 great color, audio for mp3s and video. I can guarentee you that Palm and Handspring are looking at the device right now and if they dont already have a better product in the works I am sure they will. Botttom line very soon like by the end of this year either one of them will have a color high resolution pda with possibly a soft graphite area. My bet is handspring, palm seems destined to play catch up. So while the M505 is why we are having this debate let me say it is a great product. For the support from 3rd party developers you will find and for everything palm has to offer thats what you buy. Look at sony's past attempts and their reach and ask yourself will they have the kind of commitment that palm got from other companies making modems ect. Answer is no so if you want a good solid handheld with good color and lots of potential go with palm. If you like the mp3s i suggest you dont buy Sony and buy an add on for handspring or something because youll end up paying another 100 bucks for the space to play those mp3s.

However for others of you who cant be satisfied with a M505 or a CLIE wait. It wont be long until there is a much better product out there.

RE: THIS LONG DEBATE - Here are some answers
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/27/2001 5:54:30 PM #
is it true that you don't need to pay 100 bucks more to buy space to play MP3 on a Visor ??

http://www.handspring.com/products/sbmodules/minijamdetails.jhtml

Yeah no you don't awesome !!
But 199 bucks for MP3 + 32 or 64 MB ?

Clie's Audio Adaptor is 129 dollars, and it'll cost you about 90-100 dollars for a 128 MB MS module, so that'll add up to a 229 dollars cost. but it's a 128MB MP3 player (VS 32 or 64 MB)....

Next: "Look at sony's past attempts and their reach and ask yourself will they have the kind of commitment that palm got from other companies making modems ect."

I am really not sure what you are talking about here, all I can say is in the software side they should not need to worry about support of developers. on the hardware side, they did lisence their Memorystick to compaines like Sharp, Philips ('http://www.memorystick.org/') go check the info. about MS yourself there are 189 companies supporting MS. (BTW: if you don't already know Sony did invent the 3.5" floppy disk look at how well supported it was in the last 10 years)

"a good solid handheld with good color and lots of potential go with palm."

hmm ......... you know you are biased, well I am not saying I am not biased, but the fact is 320 > 160

battery life

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/22/2001 2:06:58 PM #
i had my 505 2 days and i noticed the same problems with my battery. i would take it off the cradle in the morning and it would drop about 1/8 down on the battery. I contacted palm and they said to return it for a new one . after doing so i pluged it in ,the next morning the same thing.....i dont know what to think

RE: battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/8/2002 3:53:46 AM #
Are there any battery benchmarks available for the m500 series? I would appreciate it if someone would post his benchmarks here. (normal use with and without backlight, heavy use with and without backlight).

running apps off your sd card

brillo @ 7/2/2001 3:59:51 PM #
Really nice app for this is PowerRun ($15 shareware).

http://www.tt.rim.or.jp/~tatsushi/powerrun/index-e.html

I have been using it for a while, and love it (I think it compliments McFile nicely).

McFile

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/4/2001 3:45:12 AM #
Is this really freeware? I installed it, and now when I call it, I get a message saying "McFile has expired". I can't find anywhere to register it, except the site you mention, which comes in Japanese. HELP!!!!!!

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