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Comments on: Rumor: Full Info on m515 and m130

A very reliable source with access to both the m515 and m130 has revealed a great deal of information on both of these new models. According to him, both handhelds will be announced and released on March 4.

Palm m515
The m515's 16-bit color screen is not high resolution. The source described it as being about five times brighter than the m505's. He said it's brighter than a Jornada's, though not a bright as an iPaq's. In the upper right-hand corner of the Graffiti area is a icon shaped like the Sun that sets the brightness. It isn't a sliding bar; instead, it has three possible levels, Hi, Low, and Off. Even the Low setting is brighter than an m505.

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I just saw these!

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 10:51:15 AM #
I live in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, and just the other day I want to Staples to look @ the t415s - when I saw the 515 and 130. I compared the screens on the 505 and the 515 and as you might guess the rumors are correct. The 515 screen is indeed brighter, but I did not really delve in that deeply. Same case designs of course. I still came out with the t415 despite the new palm additions.

I will try to confirm, as I just live up the street from the store.

0123456oottffs

RE: I just saw these!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:57:16 PM #
Can anyone back this up? It sounds odd that they would be in Canada first.

RE: I just saw these!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:07:27 PM #
I saw a blank spot on the display case at my local Future Shop for these new models, and the employee said they've received a shipment, but aren't allowed to sell it yet.

They said they may put them on display early, depending on what the manager says.

RE: I just saw these!
crustyedgeofinnovation @ 2/26/2002 1:20:06 PM #
in Montreal they already are selling them at one place, "Center HiFi" and the guy at Compusmart said they'd put them out over the weekend...It's like they just don't even care about the release date... All the places i've gone to and asked, Compusmart, Future Shop, Buerau En Gros, all said they have them in the stockroom, but won't start selling till the weekend, they said the release date is March 4...

RE: I just saw these!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:59:25 PM #
How grainy did the screen look? I assume that because its brighter but still low res that the screen looked really grainy like a Prism.

RE: I just saw these!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:19:09 PM #
Other than they are both color screens, the Prism's and the m505's have nothing in common. They aren't at all the same type. Your asumption is incorrect.

Sounds ok...

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 10:58:47 AM #
The m515 seems like a great little PDA... if only it had 320x320. I assume that Palm will create a m5xx type PDA with an TI ARM processor, 320x320 screen, and OS 5 with bluetooth by fall so that is what I will be getting. Still all that said the m515/505 form factor is sweet and I like the look better than the Sony T615 (although the screen on the T615 is so superior it makes up for much of the faults with its buttons etc.) (PS: I own a m505 and my wife a T615.)

The price for the m130 looks great but I am stunned by the info on the screen. Every major PDA released in the last 18 months with color has had reflective screens so it would work indoors and out. I loved my old Palm IIIc but I am happier with my m505's dim screen just to have gained the flexibility is use.

Can someone answer a question...

Palm IIIc's had a backlit screen. The m505 has a reflective screen with sidelights. The Sont T615 has a "transflective?" screen with no visible sidelights and I heard is a hybrid... what exactly is the technology powering the amazing T615's screen and how does it work?

Thanks!

RE: Sounds ok...
bsquare @ 2/26/2002 11:09:47 AM #

No, they will not release a m5XX form ARM palm for a long time. The first generation of ARM Palms will be like the first generation color devices (IIIC and Prism) big and bulky. We won't see slim ARM devices until NEXT fall (2003) if we are lucky.

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:14:18 AM #
Fascinating, bsquare, how you know details on Palm's yet-to-be-created devices...

RE: Sounds ok...
bsquare @ 2/26/2002 11:18:20 AM #

Nope, just speculating. I guess once you spend each year thinking that this will be the year that Palm will surprise you with THE killer hand-held, just to be let down, you pretty much start to aim low.

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:19:01 AM #
Hard to believe... from what I have heard the TI ARM processor is no larger than the dragonballs and uses the same or less battery energy... SO the only thing making this bigger is the 320x320 screen but then again the T615 is almost as thin as the m505/15 now so why couldn't they produce smaller units?

It seems clear Palm has adopted the Palm V form factor as its defining high end model (otherwise they would not be able to use the size against the constant lack of features compared to Pocket PC etc.) and will always keep that size or smaller in the future...

bsquare if you know something please share...

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:20:37 AM #
Motorola was showing off at PalmSource how small a handheld could be and run OS 5 on one of their chips. They were really really small.

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:03:14 PM #
> what exactly is the technology powering the amazing T615's screen and how does it work?

...the amazing T615's screen? Who are you? Is this a real question? Who pays you?

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:22:11 PM #
This is the way I understand it: The T6x series uses transflective - or TFT - screens. That means that the screen backing is translucent, allowing it to be lit from the back ala IIIc or from the side/front ala m505/515, or both. TFTs are nothing amazing - they've been around for a long time, just not on Palm OS handhelds.

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:22:55 PM #
In fact, just like many desktop CPUs they keep incorporating more functions on the chip as they get faster, and use less power. The TI and Dragonballs include support for SD/MMC slots for example so a separate chip is not needed for that in/out.

I think Palm will keep their V form factor. It's gonna be a great year. And I hope they can use a screen as fine as the T615Cs.

-Timothy Rapson-

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:54:03 PM #
>> what exactly is the technology powering the amazing
>> T615's screen and how does it work?
>
> ...the amazing T615's screen? Who are you? Is this a real
> question? Who pays you?

- I am a long time Palm user from back in 1996 when the Pilot 5000 and still am with my m505. For kicks I bought my wife a T615 and I don't care what anyone says the screen is "amazing" just like I said compared to any other PDA screen with a PalmOS on it I have ever seen. Is that going to make me give up my m505... no, but I will expect my next Palm this fall with an ARM processor to have a screen similar in quality. Can't someone ever say ANYTHING good about something other than a PDA made by Palm hardware? Sheeesh!

Dave

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:00:08 PM #
"- I am a long time Palm user from back in 1996 when the Pilot 5000 and still am with my m505. For kicks I bought my wife a T615 and I don't care what anyone says the screen is "amazing" just like I said compared to any other PDA screen with a PalmOS on it I have ever seen. Is that going to make me give up my m505... no, but I will expect my next Palm this fall with an ARM processor to have a screen similar in quality. Can't someone ever say ANYTHING good about something other than a PDA made by Palm hardware? Sheeesh!

Dave"

..well, the thing is Sony will probably release another Clie with an ARM processor.



RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:02:52 PM #
You sure have expensive "kicks".

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:16:28 PM #
quote:
This is the way I understand it: The T6x series uses transflective - or TFT - screens. That means that the screen backing is translucent, allowing it to be lit from the back ala IIIc or from the side/front ala m505/515, or both. TFTs are nothing amazing - they've been around for a long time, just not on Palm OS handhelds.
---

Err, no, TFT stands for thin film transistor. Every color palm his a TFT display, I'm fairly sure. The transflective screen is backlit, which helps it to be brighter (because backlights are more effective), but it also reflects light back. Light will go through the screen one way, that's what transflective means.

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:38:37 PM #
> ..well, the thing is Sony will probably release another Clie with an ARM processor.

- your right... my point is right now Palm doesn't have anything close to the Clie screen but some on this board kill you if you say it, because of their huge support of Palm hardware. I am one of the largest supporters of Palm hardware considering each and every year since 1996 I have bought the top of the line model from Palm but that doesn't mean I can't give credit where credit is due.

NOW... if bluetooth is built into a m5xx form factor with a 320x320 screen comparable to the T615 with an ARM processor of decent strength and OS 5 from Palm... YOU BET it will replace my Palm, not a Clie version of the same thing. Why? I have loyalty to Palm as long as they continue to have industry leading hardware in what I need (basic PDA functionality perhaps with future access to my cellphone via bluetooth) with all the things I want (the best damn color screen out there)... so if I bought a PDA today it would be Clie (but I'm not buying today) but this fall I full expect Palm (as an independent hardware company struting its stuff) to have something comparable to the Clie screen with the goods I want...!

And I'll buy it. ;-)

Yes my kicks are expensive...!

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:41:49 PM #
"
what exactly is the technology powering the amazing T615's screen and how does it work?

...the amazing T615's screen? Who are you? Is this a real question? Who pays you?

"

And who pays you to say so ? Are you the CEO of Palm ? The fact is :T615 does have the BEST screen and it's really amazing.


Dave, you're WAY off...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:11:26 PM #
Dave, you're WAY off...

Not in your assessment of the T615C screen - it truly IS very nice.

BUT, I think you're off in assuming that you get flamed if you say anything nice around about anything but Palm products. The fact is, the pro-Sony fanatics are the ones who appear to be controlling the PIC discussion boards. Say something nice about Palm, and you get flamed. Say something bad about Sony, and you get flamed. Make a statement that is simultaneously positive regarding Palm and negative regarding Sony, and you might as well receive death threats.

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:30:59 PM #
LoL I won't flame anyone for praising any product as long as you don't try to some how pull Clie in and give it a few kick in the face.

The are facts that T615 does have better screen than palm M505, if you don't belive it that's fine, you can keep living in your reality distortion field, I don't care.

The new M515 Might be better, I don't know and no one's gonna to compare an unannounced product.

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 8:04:50 AM #
It's not that Palm supporters drag the Clie into the discussion to "kick dirt in its face." It's Sony-users who drag the Clie into the discussion to claim "superiority" over a product they haven't even SEEN yet!

RE: Sounds ok...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 8:10:32 AM #
LoL the parent of this thread is hardly a Clie fan post, he just like 320X320 hi res screens, but when palm supporters see 320X320 they started to go crazy on the poster.

"...the amazing T615's screen? Who are you? Is this a real question? Who pays you?"

come on what he said was

"The m515 seems like a great little PDA... if only it had 320x320."

Then people started to question if he's getting paid by sony, LoL. He didn't even compare Clie T615 with palm M505 what are you talking about

"claim "superiority" over a product they haven't even SEEN yet!"

seems you should try to read the thread b4 posting, instead of seeing "320X320" ALERT ATTACK ON PALM BY CLIE FANS.

palm M505 blue

Dearman @ 2/26/2002 11:10:47 AM #
the Blue palm M505 has been pulled from the palm store. sounds like they are pulling out the special editions as they clear their inventory, just speculation

Noctrop_d@yahoo.com

RE: palm M505 blue
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:21:31 AM #
true... i think you might still be able to get one as yesterday it had already been pulled but Palm said they had about 60 left in stock... maybe some are left, but as you said this is the end of the blue Palm m505.

RE: palm M505 blue
dmoody @ 2/26/2002 11:29:47 AM #
But the Cranberry edition has been wildly successful. I would expect that this, and in test markets other colors, to be reviewed.

The profitability of these special editions (you may recall as LIMITED EDITIONS ala collector's items) when sold only at the Palm site is quite high and easily controlled from a production stand point.

I have a cranberry and look forward to 'colored' m515s and others.

RE: palm M505 blue
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:42:02 AM #
The palm M505 all together is going to be discontinued on Monday. I have heard that they aren't going to do a price cut or anything, simply get rid of it.

RE: palm M505 blue
Dearman @ 2/26/2002 12:14:47 PM #
well whatever the final fate of M505 is i hope they have a idea how well the coloured palms was and i'm looking foward to a blue M515 personaly

RE: palm M505 blue
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:02:52 PM #
How do you know the cranberry one has been "wildly succesful"? I've never heard of anyone buying one

RE: palm M505 blue
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:11:08 PM #
I bought one for my sister's birthday, and when she took it to work, two other people had received the cranberry model also as gifts

Not enough

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:14:58 AM #
is the m515 the final version??
or should I wait for the m525 upgrade??
I'm still waiting for a good reason for not buying a Sony 615.

-Pissed

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:21:05 AM #
oh brother.

Yes, there will be a model to replace the m515 - just like the P4 chip will be replaced by whatever new CPU Intel puts out.

Stop sulking, and buy whatever you want!

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:22:29 AM #
Palm will not create a 320x320 model until OS 5 arrives in the fall if that is the answer you are looking for. Palmsource (ie. the company making the PalmOS) is making 320x320 native to the operating system so it is natural for Palm (the hardware company) to hold off until OS 5 arrives to deliver a 320x320 unit. Why? Well Sony created their own APIs to hack the system to 320x320 (my wife has a T615 and I know how beautiful they are) but their standard will NOT be the standard when OS 5 arrives. In fact Sony has promised to switch to the native OS 5 standard in their ARM handhelds when it arrives which begs the question... will high res softwear for the Sony models work on OS 5 even if the screen still is 320x320? It looks like the answer is no. SOOO... Palm hardware will wait on the 320x320 screens until the "final" not "hacked" standard is available.

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:22:42 AM #
Why isn't it enough?
What kind of upgrade do you want?
Are you just another one of those crybabies who basically acts like Palm is a bunch of retards who can't do anything right?

If you're looking for hi-res from Palm, you're going to have to wait until OS 5.
Otherwise, you've got plenty - OS 4.1, 16mb RAM, slim form factor, etc.

I'm willing to bet the battery life won't be compromised much if at all - Palm may have found a sidelight solution that provides more brightness with minimal power. It has been a year since they developed the m505, after all. What's more, the m515 should ship with DTG Pro 4.0, which includes Slideshow-to-Go. Not a bad deal, and NO PRICE INCREASE!

Oh, and here are 4 reasons not to buy a T615:
1) Poor stylus
2) Poor button design.
3) Lack of AVAILABLE accessories (The "Just Wait" excuse can only take you so far)
4) Terrific screen brightness and clarity is offset somewhat by the lack of color depth - it does appear slightly washed-out

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:09:38 PM #
12.5mb per second sony memory stick 2.45mb per second it's a no brainer. Sony only sells sony memory!!

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:29:13 PM #
I would expect new models from Sony and Handera that will have high res and bigger batteries/more features. I really expected more than this from Palm. But, at this late date, I don't see Palm doing high res until OS 5 (as well stated above). Too bad.
Palm sure won't get my money this way. Notwithstanding the comments about
1.small stylii (I hardly ever use them anyway, I use my pocket pen/Stylus combo),
2.poor buttons (also not important, I don't do gaming and the jog dial is so much preferable it easily makes the Sony more desireable)
3.lack of peripherals, (don't see much other than a keyboard I might get and I am sure Stowaway will do one soon),
4. screen colors fidelity (OK, this is one in favor of the two new Palms, but I think the high res is easilly the best trade-off...FOR ME. I really like the white white background that comes with the muted reds. The deal seems to be to trade better blue and white for duller red.)

Anyway, there may be one more stop for Palm OS 4.1 hardware and that is the 66MZ Dragonballs. Surely there will be some update to other hardware features when 66 MZ arrives......or maybe not.

So far the only announced product I have seen featuring a 66 is the next model of the Samsung (the Le SPH 1330 as seen in this link http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?cat=dossierdivers&id=108&p=7 )


-Timothy Rapson-


RE: Not enough
AzureGuy @ 2/26/2002 12:39:11 PM #
EEEEH, WRONGO,
Panasonic, and Lexar (I think) sell Memory Stick too (Licensees) Sorry, didn't mean to seem rude, but just go and look around, memory stick isn't just made by sony anymore.

* * *
HOW TO GET BLUETOOTH ON A UNSUPPORTED HANDHELD: Take a pair of pliars, place them around the nearest available tooth, pull, paint it blue, glue it to your handheld
RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:40:42 PM #
Sandisk also produces Memory Sticks

btw they're cheaper than SD

128 MB $57!!

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:05:39 PM #
The stylus and buttons are find and I have big hands. The screen is great. Pictures look great. The M505 is not exactly swimming in accessories either.

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:10:34 PM #
To all the people critiquing the Sony Clie buttons:

If you play games, don't get the Sony Clie. Buy a Gameboy Advance. They're cheap at $69 in most places and play much better games than the Palm.

If you have large mitts for hands, don't buy the Sony Clie. In any case, your stumps for fingers will have a hard time with Palms as well. Get a day planner instead.

For the rest of us, the Sony Clie is an excellent choice.

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 5:13:56 PM #
I have a question.
Why does everybody's wife seem to have a T615c? Nobody wants to own one themselves? Or that's the only way they can justify plunking down another $400 for another PDA?
Just curious.
AM

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:00:14 PM #
because the T615C is a feminine device. Kind of like the VW Bug or BMW Z3....only women or gay men drive them....."Not that there's anything wrong with it!"

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:35:24 PM #
"Or that's the only way they can justify plunking down another $400 for another PDA?
Just curious.
AM"


...Hey , for the same $400 I really had very hard time justifying buying the m505 over the Sony T615 so you better shut up..

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:39:25 PM #
"because the T615C is a feminine device. Kind of like the VW Bug or BMW Z3....only women or gay men drive them....."

..hmm another immature SOB
If you feel stupid becouse you already bought your m505 that's ok, learn to live with that, work extra hours and maybe next summer you will get one and maybe in 20 years you will be able to buy a BMW.

what a loser!


RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:55:42 PM #
I can buy over 20 BMW's for cash, pal.

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 7:54:32 PM #
For cash? Hey, selling drugs is bad, dude. My TV says your killing people.

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 10:09:02 PM #
Now now americans...stop comparing size...

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 5:02:23 AM #
Look, just go and buy the T615 - just don't come back here a week later to complain about the washed out screen, poor buttons, poor stylus, second rate expansion medium, lack of accessories, etc. It's your money, pal, and you are entitled to waste it if you want.

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:49:49 AM #
> Or that's the only way they can justify plunking down
> another $400 for another PDA?

- you hit the nail on the head. i wanted it, but not so badly as to give up my m505. SOOO... i got it for my wife and now I marvel at it.

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:22:18 PM #
>> The M505 is not exactly swimming in accessories either. <<

And you're shopping where...? It's easy to see at any mainstream store that there are many more accessories for the m505 than the T615.

>> To all the people critiquing the Sony Clie buttons:

If you play games, don't get the Sony Clie. Buy a Gameboy Advance. They're cheap at $69 in most places and play much better games than the Palm.

If you have large mitts for hands, don't buy the Sony Clie. In any case, your stumps for fingers will have a hard time with Palms as well. Get a day planner instead. <<

You need to GIVE UP that chip on your shoulder, Mr. Sony-lover. You've essentially said that the only people who would have a problem with the Sony buttons either play games or have enormous hands. I am physically capable of pressing the Sony buttons, and I don't use my Palm for games. Although they don't pose a physical problem, I still don't like the buttons. I would prefer a different design--even the buttons from the N series. What is so hard to understand about that?

Seems to me someone is a little too in love with their Clie (just what exactly are you sticking in that MS slot?), and needs to get off the soapbox whenever someone else points out an imperfection. You like it - GREAT. That doesn't mean we ALL have to...

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:42:25 PM #
"Look, just go and buy the T615 - just don't come back here a week later to complain about the washed out screen, poor buttons, poor stylus, second rate expansion medium, lack of accessories, etc. It's your money, pal, and you are entitled to waste it if you want. "

This reminds me of some stupid ppl who bought a CLie and returned it with a restocking fee of $60, then came on the board to complain about T615 doesnt have wireless, and ask other Clie users to give him back the $60, what a m0r0n.

Anyways T615 does have the best screen in the slim form factor category, if you don't believe it go ask some of your friends, coz maybe they don't live in the same reality distortion field as you do. And what The M5xx series doesnt even have mp3 player, what expansion ?? what ?? I wnder what second rated means to you but to me that second rated medium of yours is used by quite alot of consumer electronics device maker, well maybe not in US (coz US's always 5-10 years lagged behind).

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:47:16 PM #
>4. screen colors fidelity (OK, this is one in favor of the two new Palms, but I think the high res is easilly the best trade-off...FOR ME. I really like the white white background that comes with the muted reds. The deal seems to be to trade better blue and white for duller red.)

Ahhh...maybe its just me (i know it isn't cause a ton has been reported about this) but the m505 takes the cake in the 'washed out colors' category. the t615 lacks color depth relative to the n760 and maybe the visor (havent really looked at the visor much), but is a lot better then the m505 in both depth and resolution. Hope the m515 is as good as its reported to be.

RE: Not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:51:56 PM #
"Ahhh...maybe its just me (i know it isn't cause a ton has been reported about this) but the m505 takes the cake in the 'washed out colors' category. the t615 lacks color depth relative to the n760 and maybe the visor ...."

Don't tell them that, it might ruin their reality distortion alogrithm, ssshhhh........

Damn now they know that leaves are green and roses are red. See what you have do just now ??

RE: Not enough
Altema @ 3/11/2002 3:40:02 PM #
"Hope the m515 is as good as its reported to be."

Actually, it's a little different than expected. I was having a tough time deciding between the M515 and the T615, and almost walked out of the store with the T615. After going to three stores to make sure I was not looking at any one unusually good or bad device, I picked up the M515 with the intention of trading it back in for the T615 (love that res!) if there were any disappointments. To my surprise, it was better than expected.

SCREEN
The screen, even with the sidelight off, has much better contrast than the 505. The colors have beter saturation, depth, and clarity... you can immediately tell the difference between the 515 and the 505 (again, with the sidelight off).

SIDELIGHT
One of the main advantages over the 505, but not my top priority due to my own 505 being brighter than normal. As they report on the low setting, the 515 is at least twice as bright as a normal 505, but only 30% brighter than my own 505. If you are a regular here, you may have seen me comment on my wife's M505, which blew mine out of the water in the brightness department. The 515 on the low setting is only slightly brighter than her 505. High setting is a different story altogether, and brought back memories of my IIIc, but without the grid being noticable. The high setting is actually too bright unless you are trying to impress someone, and I wish there was a medium setting.

"BLACK" GRID
There isn't one. The spaces between the pixels are smaller than the IIIc and are silver/gray. They are more obvious than the T615 because of the better resolution on the Sony, but even my 1024x768 laptop (and any other laptop screen I've seen) has grid lines that are more obvious than than either the M515 or T615. Between the M515 and the T615, the T615 is better in this department, but don't believe the posts that claim they stand out like a street map.

BATTERY
An unexpected surprise. Much better than my 505, as good or better than my old IIIc, maybe even as good as my IIIe if I keep the sidelight off. The IIIc would get me through ANY day with power to spare, and my handhelds get extreme usage on a good workday, sometimes 10 times the normal usage. Most PPC's need two trips to chargeland per day the way I use handhelds. I have not held back on using the M515, it has been through an entire workday doing everything my other Palms have done and more, and the battery is still at 100%. I don't know what else to say.

RAM
Same as the T615, so no advantage here, but twice as nice as the 505. 16Mb is good no matter which Palm you get!

BUTTONS
No skimping here, best in the business.

GRAFFITI
This was the only downside, as I loved the lit graffiti area on the M505. However, with the sidelight being so bright, you get enough "spillover" to see where you are tapping on the graffiti area.

Nothing else to report at this time. I still have the option to return the M515 in exchange for the T615, but I don't think the jog wheel and resolution are enough to pull me away. Now, the new ones from Sony with the flip screen, camera, and keyboard... THAT's another story! But they are in a different price range and I'd never get any work done!

Low, High, Off??

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:22:17 AM #
Only a Low, High and Off for the light? Guess Palm is still doing it half-assed.

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:25:48 AM #
We'll have to see the unit first. If the 3 settings are good ones why should it matter? I find very little difference between smaller changes that 100%, 50%, off in my wife's T615 with a sliding bar.

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:34:01 AM #
Yet another whine from the pro-Sony, anti-Palm twits...

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:43:49 PM #
"Yet another whine from the pro-Sony, anti-Palm twits..."

Most "pro-Sony, anti-Palm twits" as you wrote were Palm users just like you that saw the light at the end of the tunnel, and regardless how hard you try to justify your Palm purchase, the Clies are superior innovative PDAs.
I know that Palm cheerleaders will say that the stylus and buttons suck but thats a minor thing compared to twice memory, much much better screen, you can actually see full width Word docs!!, easy acces w/jog wheel and USB hotsync that works.
Of course Sony's sales are far behind Palm, but thats becouse you only find them in BBuy and Circuitcity
:(!

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:20:42 PM #
> twice memory

The m515 and T615C have the same amount of memory: 16MB.

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:28:14 PM #
>you can actually see full width Word docs!!

Sure you can but you need magnifying glasses to see the miniature text! Don't waste yor time telling me that typing a word doc in that resolution is easier than in large font on a standard palm because it's not true!

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:54:06 PM #
The sony text can look like the Palm if you want to.
Can you make your Aplm look like the Sony?

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:56:46 PM #
Hahaha. The above statement about "miniature text" is true. I bought ActionNames 5 for my Sony N710C, being thrilled that it would support Sony Hi-Res (same with ISilo). It turns out that "hi-res support" meant something like 8- or maybe 6-point text on the screen. It was really really tiny and practically unreadable unless close to your face.

Of course, using ThinFont or FontHack is a different matter but such "hi-res support" is something I could do without.

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 4:00:44 PM #
"The sony text can look like the Palm if you want to.
Can you make your Aplm look like the Sony?"

LOL LOL LOL :)

RE: Low, High, Off??
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 5:20:37 PM #
>Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:25:48 AM
>
>We'll have to see the unit first. If the 3 settings >are good ones why should it matter? I find very >little difference between smaller changes that 100%, >50%, off in my wife's T615 with a sliding bar.

Yet another guy talking about his "wife's T615"... Maybe it's the same guy.



M515 vs. T61/25

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:19:50 AM #
If the M515's specs given in the article are correct then I'm really disappointed with Palm. All that's really changed since the M505 is they've got a good screen (which they should have had on the M505 anyway) and 16meg of memory. Sure, these are significant improvements, but I personally will favour the extra features of the T625. If only the Palm has built-in Bluetooth then that at least be a serious option for buyers to consider. However, I think if the M515 specs given are correct, the T625 will get the Gold Medal (notice the topical metaphor!).

Hey, its my birthday on March 4th so if any of you guys are feeling generous...


Gordon from Edinburgh.


RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:32:35 AM #
What extra features are you talking about, outside of the hi-res screen?

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:34:04 AM #
I disagree. The T615C's main advantages over the m515 are a hi-res screen that doesn't show colors very well and an improved speaker that someone might write some games for someday, maybe.

In the mean time, there are tons of keyboards, modems, stylus/pen combos, and hardcases for the m515. While there are a few for the T415C, the selection doesn't begin to compare. Before you say that the T415C is new and these will come along eventually, the m515 isn't even out yet and there's already tons of stuff for it.

I'm not saying people are wrong who want an T415C. If you really like the hi-res screen, go for it. But people who want a m515 have their reasons. Good reasons.

There is no "Best" handheld. The true killer app is diversity.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:50:14 AM #
Hi there campers,

Note that I used the word "personally" in my comment above. I don't use a Palm keyboard or any other accessories, apart from a hard case and custom stylus. I suspect that most people, like me, use a desktop computer so much that they don't need a keyboard. I realise that there will be exceptions. For people *like me* then, the choice between the Sony and the Palm comes down to the specs/price of the individual unit. On balance, I *personally* feel the T625 offers more. But hey, the M515 isn't out yet so maybe I'll change my mind on 4th March or whenever it does come out.

Did I mention its my birthday on 4th March...

Both machines will be excellent pieces of kit. A couple of the Sony's features *I* like are the hi-res screen and the jog-dial. Still, like all you guys out there I'll be keen to see the 'official' specs when they're available.

Gordon from Edinburgh.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:51:29 AM #
Boy, some people really have to rationalize in order to justify buying an inferior product!

Accessories for T615 are coming faster than you think. Just check out the latest posting in PIC.

I wouldn't be surprised that within 6 months, T615 is the best selling high-end Palm device.

Sony just needs to bring out the CF adapter for T series they have in Japan. After that, let's see who has the more accessories.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:55:48 AM #
Speaking of rationalization, I'll bet you've managed to talk yourself into thinking that the buttons on your 615 don't suck and you really like a stylus so thin it cuts into your hands. I can't wait to see your "The buttons and stylus are great!" message. These always make me laugh.

By the time there are any 615 peripherals out, there will be even MORE for the m515. Palm has an insurmountable lead as Sony had to force all the manufacturers to start all over again.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:28:10 PM #
"I wouldn't be surprised that within 6 months, T615 is the best selling high-end Palm device."

I wouldn't just be surprised, I'd be shocked. Look at the rumoured price on the M130. Those will be FLYING off the shelves. Your average home user (as opposed to the corporate IT market) places a very high premium on good value for the money, and isn't really interested in spending money on extras that aren't truly essential or have more effective home counterparts. For example, why does my PDA have to be able to show movies in high-resolution or play MP3's when I have a 36" TV, DVD, and a Sony Walkman? Less than $300 for a color PDA with a nice form factor, 8mb of memory, hundreds of accessories, and a proven stable OS with outstanding functionality? Palm won't be able to build M130's fast enough.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
sandbuck @ 2/26/2002 12:30:30 PM #
There was once two people that spent her entire lives debating which was better, a pair of shoes or a pair of pliers. Sound absurd? For you guys, probably not.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:55:05 PM #
"Speaking of rationalization, I'll bet you've managed to talk yourself into thinking that the buttons on your 615 don't suck and you really like a stylus so thin it cuts into your hands. I can't wait to see your "The buttons and stylus are great!" message. These always make me laugh.

By the time there are any 615 peripherals out, there will be even MORE for the m515. Palm has an insurmountable lead as Sony had to force all the manufacturers to start all over again" (posted above)

As I posted above:

1.small stylii (I hardly ever use them anyway, I use my pocket pen/Stylus combo),
2.poor buttons (also not important, I don't do gaming and the jog dial is so much preferable it easily makes the Sony more desireable)
3.lack of peripherals, (don't see much other than a keyboard I might get and I am sure Stowaway will do one soon),
4. screen colors fidelity (OK, this is one in favor of the two new Palms, but I think the high res is easilly the best trade-off...FOR ME. I really like the white white background that comes with the muted reds. The deal seems to be to trade better blue and white for duller red.)

Supposing these to be true (they are true *for me*)
I think the T615C is far ahead of the M515. Moreover, from what I've read 50% of all Palm users never even install a piece of third party software, much less purchase auxiliary hardware. I have had a Mako and then and Ipaq for 10 months and the only hardware I have bought form them is a flash card and stylii/pens. I would like a camera but won't likely buy one until they get to 1 megapixel, and that's a long way off. So, if I don't need what Palm offers, I am far more likely to get the Sony. Actually, even the latest Sony still lacks the dual slot feature I am holding out for. But if my Ipaq gave up today, I would certainly have a T615C tomorrow over either of the new Palms.

But I *do* agree with the post above that sees big sales for he M130. It is clearly THE model in the $200-$300 price range. Palm IIICs are selling for $230 right now. Add the rechargable battery and memory slot to outside viewability and Palm better hope they have scheduled a LOT of manufacturing capacity.

-Timothy (I really need to register!) Rapson

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:09:14 PM #
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:51:29 AM

Boy, some people really have to rationalize in order to justify buying an inferior product!

I own a Sony and just want to say that the person who posted the above is a ******. I owned the m505 as well and it was a great machine until I lost it :-( The Sony is good but the m505 holds it's own no problems. I should state that my girlfriend bought me the Sony after I lost the m505.

The Sony DOES (don't tell me it doesn't coz it does!) feel much larger in the hand than the m505 but yes, the Sony screen wins hands down. Colours are a bit washy though. I would be happy with either an m505/515 or a T615c as reading ebooks and looking at pictures are not my thing at all. For me they are electronic agendas and nothing more...well, maybe stylish too!

So all you bigoted Sony posters, please stop saying that the Sony is so, so superior...because it just plain isn't...although it is still an excellent product as is the m505.


RE: M515 vs. T615C
Ed @ 2/26/2002 1:16:44 PM #
> Moreover, from what I've read 50% of all Palm users never even install a piece of third party
> software, much less purchase auxiliary hardware.

This is a commonly-held belief that turns out to not be true. During PalmSource, Mike Mace displayed the results of a survey that showed that 82% of Palm users are aware that they can load third-party applications onto their handhelds and 67% have done so.

Sorry, no figures on hardware sales.

---
News Editor

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:07:29 PM #
.the buttons an dstylus are infe. I have big hands and am a heavy user. Are the M505 buttons better? yes but not enough to matter. There are already several games that us the new speaker and plenty of things you can do wiht other sounds. the T615 is far superior to the M505 and will be to the M515 as well. Hope you enjoy looking at grainy screens.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 8:26:25 PM #
Happy birthday Gordon.

Say guys, what do you say we all chip in and buy Gordon a Sony T615C, pink. and 20 BMW Z3s (cash) and whatever else he wants. Everyone give a little and we'll all be able to give alot.

-Timothy Rapson-

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 11:47:06 PM #
i'm looking into purchasing a new handheld and the sony seems more appealing w/ its higher resolution screen, plus the mp3 player doesnt add much size to the unit (although i havent looked for mp3 player's for the palm) and the digital camera, while not much more than a toy at 320x240 resolution, doesnt add much bulk to the unit either, but all things considered, when it comes down to accessories im probably going to end up buying a palm. the sony units arent even available at any store where i live (i would have to order any accessories i would need for it) i like the fact of just being able to walk in to the local staples and pickup a case, keyboard, extra stylus and perhaps a few other accessories for my palm.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 4:21:20 AM #
Dear Timothy,

Thank you very much for your kind suggestion. However, I should like to point out that I would rather not have a pink Sony, as I would be unlikely to use it much (at least not in public).

Seriously though, I think your views expressed above make a lot of sense. Sometimes posters forget that tons of accessories are not always needed by everyone, and that buttons aren't designed for games. The M130 will be a huge hit with non-business users.

I look forward to receiving many gifts,


Gordon from Edinburgh

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 5:08:17 AM #
Let me see if I understand this correctly: You are asking for advice about whether to you should buy:

a) the rumoured (but, presumably, soon to be released) m515; or

b) the much hyped (but flawed) T615; or

c) a derivative of the T615 (details of which are speculation, at best).

This is insane. Put your analyst on danger money, baby.


RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:32:06 PM #
>> There was once two people that spent her entire lives debating which was better, a pair of shoes or a pair of pliers. Sound absurd? For you guys, probably not. <<

LOL! Right on!

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 2:09:30 PM #
Ed:

Going by your your statement:

"This is a commonly-held belief that turns out to not be true. During PalmSource, Mike Mace displayed the results of a survey that showed that 82% of Palm users are aware that they can load third-party applications onto their handhelds and 67% have done so."

Out of 100 palm users, 18 haven't installed third party software because they didn't know they could, while out of the remaining 82 palm users out of 100, 27 have not installed third party software. 18 plus 27 equals 45 out of 100 Palm users that haven't installed third party software. That is pretty close to the 50% that the previous poster stated. It is also an excellent example of how numbers can be twisted to make it look in Palm's favor.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
Ed @ 2/27/2002 2:56:01 PM #
It isn't 67% of the 82%. According to the survey, 67% of all Palm users have installed third party software.

To have meant what you said, the sentence would have to have been something close to, "Mike Mace displayed the results of a survey that showed that 82% of Palm users are aware that they can load third-party applications onto their handhelds and 67% of those people have done so."

---
News Editor

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:11:47 PM #
67% is still quite a low number, considering probably a pretty large percentage of that 67% never ever install any software that's not a freeware or shareware with annoying popups but still works.

RE: M515 vs. T61/25
gaardii @ 2/28/2002 5:02:12 AM #
67% means that a lot of people out there aren't using their Palms to their full potential. On the other hand, perhaps the remaining 33% are happy to use their machines only as hi-tech diaries and address books. I wouldn't be surprised. I consider myself a 'power user' as I have my Vx with me all the time, use it constantly for work and a lot for etext/avantgo reading. Oh, and a few games too. Still, I imagine that the majority of palm owners aren't power users and are content with the onboard applications. Does anyone know what the stats are for usage of bundled software? The fact that Palm Inc, Sony and other manufacturers are bundling 3rd party software should alert new owners to the fact that 3rd party software exists! I'm looking forward to a text-to-speech prog - as far as I'm aware, this shouldn't be too difficult to produce considering the level of audio-tech built into the recent Sonys. Am I right in thinking that the only leap-of-tech required is a faster processor? Anyone...?

I'm eagerly awaiting all those birthday presents from you guys, but I'm starting to wonder how you will be able to deliver them to a thread. Hmmm...


Gordon from Edinburgh


The End of the Begining

sandbuck @ 2/26/2002 11:12:44 AM #
Palm has turned a corner:

- Great current lineup
- Strategic split of OS and hardware
- Smart, clear thinking about OS 5 and beyond

They made it our of Yank-assic Park. Let's give them a hand.

RE: The End of the Begining
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:46:45 PM #
I don't think anyone can call this "turning the corner" The m515 is simply a replacement for the m505 which was flawed in a couple of ways. The m130 is interesting, though.

RE: The End of the Begining
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:53:47 PM #
I'm inclined to agree with Sandbuck. It's not that either of these products is such a standout (though both are attractive), certainly not next to the Clie. But together and combined with several of the other news coming out of Palm, it does seem like they have a renewed focus and have started to emerge from a very difficult period. OS 5.0 will be a big make-or-break moment. If people see it as truly feature-competitive with PPC 2002, then the Palm platform's other advantages (and perceived advantages) should let it keep the lead. But people are expecting a lot. . .

RE: The End of the Begining
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:53:47 PM #
Hmm.

So Curently the Palm Line Up is
i705 $449
m505 $399
m500 $329
m125 $199
m105 $149
m100 $99

So the Palm Line Up will shortly be:

i705 $449
m515 $400
m500 $hmm **
m130 $280
m125 $159
m105 $99
m100 ( which should be discontinued)

** What will the new price for tho m500 be? It seems to me that to charge more for a non-color handheld would be a mistake (despite the better form factor and bigger screen). So If I were Palm I would sell it at $249. Of course that would mean a $80 price reduction on the m500.

Also, I agree these two new products at good price points make for a strong product line. A Palm comeback? Maybe? What Palm really needs to do in the next year is hi-res screens, and multimedia capabilities. .What does everyone else think?

- David


RE: The End of the Begining
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:03:37 PM #
Turned the corner? I don't think so. Wait until everyone sees how grainy the screen on the M515 is. Everything else they are doing is from sheer desperation.

Palm m515 = m505 v2.0
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:51:15 PM #
Lets put it this way: Palm m515 is what the m505 should have been from the very begining. This happens when the design team does not listen what the users want.

RE: The End of the Begining
sandbuck @ 2/26/2002 3:58:40 PM #
>> I don't think anyone can call this "turning the corner" The m515 is simply a replacement for the m505 which was flawed in a couple of ways. The m130 is interesting, though.
Flawed, but still popular

>> it does seem like they have a renewed focus and have started to emerge from a very difficult period.
Yep. Their moves this year have shown a lot of common sense. Boring? You could say that. The sex appeal comes in Q4 and beyond.

>> Turned the corner? I don't think so. Wait until everyone sees how grainy the screen on the M515 is.
Sony's impressive technology aside, non-enthusiasts are "ok" that resolution.

>> Everything else they are doing is from sheer desperation.
The OS5 architecture is to well thought-out to be considered desperation.



RE: The End of the Begining
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 9:43:28 PM #
>> If people see it as truly feature-competitive with PPC 2002,
>> then the Palm platform's other advantages (and perceived
>> advantages) should let it keep the lead. But
>> people are expecting a lot. . .

Yeah - They expect at least one data-losing crash a week, three to five hours of battery life, and a platform/name change every other OS release.

Microsoft coulden't release a good (IE: Stable, user friendly) handheld OS if somebody GAVE it to them. They're too busy trying to use handhelds in a bid for 'Total Global Domination' to make something that works reliably. All Palm has to do is avoid following those idiots into the 'Feature bloat' quagmire, and they'll STILL be taking the PocketPC OS' lunch money in 2006.

still 33 mhz

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:02:43 PM #
Anyone know if itīs still 33 mhz on m515 or a 66 mhz dragonball ???

RE: still 33 mhz
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:02:19 PM #
33. not 66.

So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:03:27 PM #
For those few of you who have seem the m515, where are they being assembled? I'm happy to see them produced and providing jobs anywhere as long as the quality is good, but would hate to purchase one produced in Country A only to later find out they aren't built as dependable as ones produced in Country B.

RE: So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:24:00 PM #
Hahahaha... funny.

RE: So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:29:48 PM #
For those not getting the joke, this seems to be a reference to an old hoax that "Hungarian" Palms had problems, while "US" Palms were perfect. A bit of study quickly showed that wasn't the case.

RE: So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:33:51 PM #
Oops - I got my hoax wrong. The hoax was that a hack would increase contrast on m505s, but only those built in Hungary. Search for "Hungary Hoax" in the search feature at left and you'll find it.

RE: So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:36:52 PM #
Actually...it would be nice if they were produced in one place only (if the quality control is good). This would prevent rumors of one being better than another from happening in the first place. Those with Hungarian m505s have a resale issue now, as a result of web hype.

RE: So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:43:13 PM #
I have no idea what the overall statistics were for the USA vs. Hungary issue, so I really can't give an informed opinion about that.

However, I can share my personal experience:

Bought a brand-new M500 11/2001, sticker on back said "Assembled in Hungary"--seemed fine until I tried to use the backlight. Barely even a hint of a glow. Returned it, replacement came a week later, back sticker said "Assembled in USA"--backlight works fine, and I've been extremely pleased with it overall.

Like I said, that's only two handhelds, but it's all I've got to go on. I won't be buying another one made in Hungary if I can help it, and if I have no other choice, I'll only buy one I can easily return for a new one at the store where I bought it. Returns to Palm seem to be replaced by refurbs.

hungary VS US made rumors were true
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:52:30 PM #
based on personal experience.

and you believed palm where they said it wast true?

RE: So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 4:03:13 PM #
No, what we believed was Ed Hardy, Wes Salmon, Palmstation, and all the other site and authorities that tested it out and found it was a hoax. Did you actually test the alleged "hack" yourself and find that it worked? You'd be the only one.

RE: So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.
escobar @ 2/26/2002 5:12:25 PM #
The hoax worked for Steve Bush, from Brighthand.com!

(Not really, he only stated that it worked for a while, but it was amusing anyway)!



RE: So what place(s) are the m515 being produced.
Altema @ 2/27/2002 11:22:35 PM #
It was certainly a hoax. I have seen several defective Palm M505's, but there was no pattern to the place of assembly. My first 505 was from Hungary and was bad, my wife's first 505 was from America and was bad. Her second was from America and was flawless... everything fits and works perfectly, and the screen is bright like my laptop. I guess we should consider that a defect though... :)

MY current 505 is another story, drains the battery while OFF! Still waiting to hear back from Julie at Palm...

Hi-Res

Galley_SimRacer @ 2/26/2002 12:44:51 PM #
Will Palm ever do Hi-Res before OS 5? It doesn't look like it.

--
"Life is what you experience between racing games"
Galley
RE: Hi-Res
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:59:59 PM #
no because the API allowing high-res will debut in OS 5. the sony models use a sony API that is not a standard and will cause many apps made for the sony API to break under the OS 5 API (which even Sony will adopt.)

reminds me of when the 56k modems came out and multiple standards existed... i think waiting for the universal standard (ie. OS 5) isn't a half bad idea, esp. since sony models can't be flashed to OS 5.

RE: Hi-Res
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:41:38 PM #
And where di you get this information? Especially that hires that supports Sony does not work in OS5? Why can't you say PalmOS takes the hires from Sony and incorporate into OS5? They took VFS and 16bit colors from their licensees?

Talking abt bigoted Sony supporters. It is the same with this guy that try to scare people from buying Sony without any proof. Get a life. Do not twist the truth or put unfounded truth of yourself just that your beloved Palm Inc survice.

Oh, in case you want to know, I do not own any palm os. Intend to buy one. It is really ugly to see you guys fighting among palm os devices. PPCs guys will be happy to see this.

RE: Hi-Res
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:00:09 PM #
"This information" comes from the PalmSource developer conference last month where the details of high density screen support in OS 5 were revealed. The OS 5 high density design is different from Sony's.

RE: Hi-Res
bcombee @ 2/27/2002 3:14:47 AM #
However, the PalmSource people said that Sony was likely to release an OS patch that would let code using the new screen density APIs work on existing 320x320 devices.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
RE: Hi-Res
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:38:48 AM #
How hard it is to patch a code seriously, you just need to make a wrapper function, funny how people could make it seems like such a big deal while there is not really a problem.

RE: Hi-Res
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:12:17 PM #
"However, the PalmSource people said that Sony was likely to release an OS patch that would let code using the new screen density APIs work on existing 320x320 devices."

How would this work, wouldn't any new code using the new screen density APIs be optimized to run only on ARM and OS5? Or is there going to be some sort of emulation? I am aware that OS5 is backwards-compatible but is the Sony hardware forwards-compatible?

Battery Life with the m515?

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 12:42:19 PM #
My curiosity/concern is with the battery life on the new m515. Anyone know I would hope that it is at least as long as the m505 at comparable light levels.

I am disappointed that there is little innovation in the m515. It is more like an "m505.5".

515 good not amazing

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:08:05 PM #
The 515 is the device that should have come out last year. Aside from the better screen there is nothing revolutionary here.

I loved my 505 except for the lousy screen. This corrects that problem except for the fact that I have to pony up $400 bucks just to get the same device I have now.

Is this the best Palm can do in a year's time?

RE: 515 good not amazing
SaxonMan @ 2/26/2002 1:20:50 PM #
thats right i think it's funny that it took palm a year to add these features to the 505.
nothing new so far.


regards,
SaxonMan
Moderator-Handspring
--------------------------------------
may the holy palmostles be with you

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:22:56 PM #
No-one has introduced anything revolutionary since the N710C came out last June. The T615C and m515 are a nice handhelds but there's nothing revolutionary about them.

We'll have to wait until this fall for the ARM based/OS5 models to hit for the revolution to begin.

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:29:31 PM #
Palm is definitely behind the curve in terms of innovation. Sony has had a 320x320 device on the market with a great screen, MP3 playback and a jog dial, and Palm just now creates a color device with the screen that it should have had in the first place.

I am willing to bet that we will be dissapointed with OS5 devices as well. The only real improvement they will have is support for higher res; no ARM, multitasking, etc., until OS6. And once again, hi-res has already been on the market for some time so there's no innovation there.

Must the Japanese always beat us to the punch?

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:35:05 PM #
> I loved my 505 except for the lousy screen. This corrects that problem except for the fact that I have to pony up $400 bucks just to get the same device I have now.

If you love your m505 what is your problem? Don't say the screen is lousy because it isn't. You may have a faulty unit. My screen is fine, absolutely no problems at all. You don't have to fork out a penny, you have a perfectly useable m505. Just wait for a few months and then shell out some cash on OS5 devices. Only someone who bedwets would actually dump an m505 just to get the m515. Has a better backlight and 8mb more memory on the m515 suddenly made your m505 unusable??? No, I didn't think so. Much more intelligent to wait and see what OS5 brings then dump the m505.

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:14:29 PM #
> thats right i think it's funny that it took palm a year to add these features to the 505.

It took Palm a year because they had to sell the remaining inventory of m505s and milk the customers dry. Now, the customers with defective m505s can pony up and buy the m515.

I was so sick-and-tired last year after seeing the m505 in person that I cancelled my m505 order and bought a Sony Clie. Haven't looked back. In fact, I've recommended at least 10 people to buy Clies instead of Palms. All are happy.

Palm is going to have to do much harder if they want to regain mindshare. As I'm completely underwhelmed.


RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:29:03 PM #
Well, I will also continue to recommend Clie handhelds (I've been a happy 610 owner, recently upgraded to 615), but with a caveat. The Clie handhelds are great, as long as they work. If the stop working (as did my 615), Sony Support's rumored pitiful levels isn't a rumor for me any longer. :(

So, my caveat will be, buy sony if the nice screen and extra goodies are worth the chance of having to deal with their extremely crappy support if there is a problem.

And before you start saying Palm's support isn't any better, let me say that I've had on occasion in the last five years to call Palm support about six times. NEVER have I had the problems or gotten the run-around that I got the FIRST time I called Sony.

- awaiting the return of my (repaired) 615... in "approx 2-3 weeks", meanwhile back to the 610...

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 2:29:23 PM #
Reminds me of Handspring, who's BIG announcement is the NEW, IMPROVED Neo, basically a rehashed Visor with new fruity colors!

Palm spends a year to increase the backlighting, which never should have been so bad to begin with. They also add 16 megs of Ram. Whow!

Sony comes out with Hi Res, improved speaker, improved InfrRed, 16 megs, and MP3 capability, jog wheel and Palm loyals have to find SOMETHING to bash Sony over (crappy buttons, crappy stylus!)

I personally am a little disappointed in both Palm AND Handspring in their lack of developement. I'd rather give my $$$ to Sony, who at least is trying to push the bounds of the Palm OS, and, in my opinion,doing an excellent job of it.

Whatever. Enjoy whatever device you get.

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:03:15 PM #
Since the N710C was announced in May of last year, what amazing new features has Sony added?

* 16 MB. Handspring did this first and the m515 will have it too.

* Better speaker. Been in the TRGpro since 1999.

* TV remote control. That's OK but it's not a major advance.

Sony keeps introducing new models but hasn't done anything really new in going on a year.

In that same time, they've made several major screw-ups. The T415's screen is a dud. Their wireless service is only for the low end S series and the modem is way too big.

You know, I feel bad writing this. I actually like Sony and their handhelds. I might buy one when my current handhelds needs an upgrade. But the Sony-heads here have this smug, insulting attitude that makes me want to prove them wrong, which is why I wrote this.

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:15:30 PM #
"You know, I feel bad writing this. I actually like Sony and their handhelds. I might buy one when my current handhelds needs an upgrade. But the Sony-heads here have this smug, insulting attitude that makes me want to prove them wrong, which is why I wrote this."

HHHhhmm ... if not for some people who lives in the reality distortion field which claims that M505 is better than T615 or T-series is just a over priced remote controll, I guess it won't piss so many Sony Fans off.

Come on it doesnt take an idiot to realize that the T-series is not just a remote control, if that's not trash talking I don't know what is. And even color-blind people will notice that M505 has the worse color screen ever in the history of computing, that is obvious facts. Facts are Facts, twisting facts will turn a good discussion into a bunch of trash talking insults.

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 4:33:26 PM #
>what amazing new features has Sony added?
>
>* 16 MB. Handspring did this first and the m515 will >have it too.
>
>* Better speaker. Been in the TRGpro since 1999.
>
>* TV remote control. That's OK but it's not a major >advance.
>
>Sony keeps introducing new models but hasn't done >anything really new in going on a year.

While they haven't done anything really "new," keep in mind that they added all those features onto a single device (T-series) while still keep in slim design. That's a feat in itself.

It's easy to pick apart elements of the clie, but you have to admit that sony's delivered on the wish list for most users who post on this site:
- slim design
- external speaker
- great color screen
- more memory

Also, it simply amazes me that most palm users who complain about the T415 screen being too dim are also the same people who justify that the m505 is bright enough when compared to the T615C.

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 8:19:40 PM #
"Also, it simply amazes me that most palm users who complain about the T415 screen being too dim are also the same people who justify that the m505 is bright enough when compared to the T615C."

SSSssshhh how many times have I told you people, DON'T TELL THEM THE TRUTH!!! It'll totally break their reality distortion algorithm, They used to think grasses are red and Roses are green, now you totally messed up their mind, they might even go crazy because of you.

RE: 515 good not amazing
rigter @ 2/28/2002 5:37:16 AM #
But what if we're all color blind?
What if the sky is actually green?

Don't tell the truth to people who do not want to hear it. You might hurt yourself.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

RE: 515 good not amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 10:51:12 AM #
> it simply amazes me that most palm users who complain
> about the T415 screen being too dim are also the same
> people who justify that the m505 is bright enough

1. The T415's screen is far worse than the m505. The m505's screen is at least readable under any condition I have seen it in, though it is not "bright" enough to be a decent COLOR screen . The T415's screen is unreadable and absolutely useless under any condition I have ever seen it in.
2. At least the m505 had battery life as an excuse for its poor brightness, in comparison to the T415 which had no excuse for such a poor screen.

The remaining T415s are probably going to get dumped in a landfill somewhere. Sony can probably write them off that way and come out further ahead than the absurdly low clearance price they'd have to sell them for to get rid of them.

RE: 515 is amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 12:23:21 PM #
everybody happy now :)

people next time please compare apple to apple oranges to oranges. there's no point comparing a color model to a b/w model, anyways basically they both sucked, so you are just trying to debate which one is worse.

mmmhh...

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 1:54:20 PM #
some info about m130's batteries??

RE: mmmhh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:58:40 PM #
You mean AAA batteries. I don't think this will exist on the m130. I believe the m130 will be using the recharable lithiums.

RE: mmmhh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:06:19 AM #
m130 has a lithium polymer battery, just like the m505.

cyrus

Where Is Built In Bluetooth?

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:48:33 PM #
I thought it would be in this, that would at least give something new. Well, guess not. Palm seems to be busy fixing their problems - USB, screen brightness, rather than giving what people wants - new features.

RE: Where Is Built In Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 2:57:57 PM #
Regardless. For new users, the Palm m130 and m515 are going to be hits baby!

RE: Where Is Built In Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:17:32 PM #
Yeah, hit me baby one more time...

RE: Where Is Built In Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:19:12 PM #
oops - they - did - it - again -


RE: Where Is Built In Bluetooth?
rigter @ 2/27/2002 7:28:53 AM #
Of course no built in BlueT !!!
It would solve too many problems at once !!!

It would put an end to this 'universal connector' b***sh*t. Changing the connector for every new model.
Most accessories people use are large enough to hold a $10 bluetooth chip. One single keyboard would serve them all for years to come. Think of it. An entire industry would collapse! Noooo, you don't want that to happen, do you?

It would solve the communication issue with other gizmo's like mobile phones, desktop computers and virtually any other source of data around you that you can think of. At home, at the office, in your car, you mention it. It would be too much for you to cope with. All this information would lead to burnout. It would fill the 8mb too quickly. Don't ever fall for BlueT.

Other than that, it would be too convenient. You want to aim two infrared ports at each other. Now just don't move for a sec....
You want to carry around all those cables with you. Make sure you've got the connection with you.

And you most certainly do not want an USB port in your cradle. That would mean you could use USB peripherals today!!!!! Good heavens no, that should never happen. God forbid I should be able to plug in an USB keyboard in a pda cradle and type ahead. A whole industry down the drain.
Personally, I think this whole USB connection thing with pda's is way too fast. At least Palm understands this and will fry those who try and deny it ever happened.

Industry wide support for BlueT would mean Palm competitors could release pda's and existing peripherals would actually work!! Now we don't want that to happen, do we? Do you know how much money people have invested in these peripherals? Often more than the pda itself!!! Remember that when crying for BlueT!

WAAAHHHAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAA
sob sob

Cheers ;-)
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

RE: Where Is Built In Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:13:44 PM #
That there's no Bluetooth in the m515 is clearly part of a government plot to take over our minds with signals beamed from satellites. Geez, someone has been watching too many episodes of the X-files.

There aren't enough Bluetooth peripherals yet to justify adding it. Palm will release one late this summer, giving time for more mobile phones, printers, etc.

If you can't wait, get the Bluetooth SD card, also from Palm. It's an OK stop-gap solution.

RE: Where Is Built In Bluetooth?
rigter @ 2/28/2002 5:01:06 AM #
I'm afraid this is an chicken/egg thing.

This would have been an easy and relatively cheap addition to the m5xx line. Easy because with the external model available this means that all the basic coding and testing of bluetooth has already been done.

Fixing the screen and adding 8 mb of memory brings Palm up to the standards that others have set.
Adding Bluetooth would have allowed Palm to cry victory again.
"Palm boosts technical innovation to new unprecedented hights" Yeah, I can see the marketeers crap. How about this one: "Palm sets new standards for industry" That's a nice one, isn't it? I think I should make a career move. "Palm back at the frontline of technical innovation" Oops I did it again.

Don't get me wrong. I think the 515 is a fine pda. But Palm missed a chance here. It is a big moral boost to be able to call yourself leader again after the period Palm has gone through.

And to mention something a lot of posters here do not want to hear about: over at the ppc camp, the first bt enabled machines are out. Bluetooth is not some experimental playground for nerds anymore. In fact, the bluetooth explosion was expected to happen last year. It is acually quite mature already.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

New Palm lineup?

marig @ 2/26/2002 2:53:47 PM #
If the Best Buy store where the source cited in the story hasn't received any m105's, m125's, m500's or m505's in 3 weeks, does this mean that ALL of these models are being replaced with the m130 and m515?

I seem to remember some speculation on this a while ago, so if this is old news, forgive me.

But, IF this does turn out to be the case, it would mean Palm's new line-up will consist only of the m130, m515 and i705. Is it just me, or does this seem like a subtle but possibly wise shift in strategy? No more low-end monochrom units, their cheapest offering will be a low-end color unit, abandoning the previous low-end of the market for which they suffered during a price war with Handspring, etc.

RE: New Palm lineup?
PalmProof @ 2/26/2002 4:45:11 PM #
Here's what I know from my direct sources:

The m125 will continue for a few more months.....the m105 should be discontinued by the end of the second calendar quarter.....it's replacement will be out by then.

The replacement for the m500 may be the m525..and may also have color, though I have not been given any solid proof yet.

Direct from a memo: "We plan to have all Palms support the UC by end of 2Q"

I should have a lot more by mid march

bluetooth

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:05:18 PM #
isn`t there any bluetooth built in the 515?????
are they stupid????????


RE: bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:13:31 PM #
No.
Yes.

RE: bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:33:51 PM #
No.
No.

RE: bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 8:37:10 PM #
No.
Yes.


Bluetooth chips placed on motherboard now cost about $10. They think we will pay $130 to add it in a slot (the only slot available!)

NO, NO, NO!

RE: bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 10:39:09 PM #
yes ?
yes ?
nope.

RE: bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 10:00:13 AM #
The promises of Bluetooth are still just that... promises. Palm has a track record of using current technology that is already established in the marketplace. (The execution may not always be perfect, a la USB syncing.) Palm usually shies away from the "bleeding edge", and Bluetooth is still in the "bleeding edge" category. Palm's strategy, while undoubtedly maddening to the early adopters of new technology, has helped them secure and hold the dominant position in the PDA market. So,

No.
No.

Wait until Cebit

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:13:26 PM #
Sony is launching something that will redefine the PDA market completely.

All I can say is swivel :)

RE: Wait until Cebit
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:22:58 PM #
When is Cebit?

RE: Wait until Cebit
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:49:03 PM #
around the 15th March

RE: Wait until Cebit
mfs @ 2/26/2002 4:51:51 PM #
"swivel" you must be talking about the device shown at PalmSource.

RE: Wait until Cebit
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 5:21:31 AM #
Beware, the Ides of March. ... Et tu Palm?

(with apologies to the late W Shakespear).

RE: Wait until Cebit
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/1/2002 1:09:41 PM #
Any idea of a release date?

Question

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:38:12 PM #
I had read another post, on the other M515 post. Fzara did have a good point. Is there any way to clean to screen? I had gone on vacation, and the palm had not been properly covered. There are particles even inside my screen.
Thank You

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:42:51 PM #
Brilliant question - now here's your answer - put it in the dishwasher on high (regular cycle) and all of the dust particles will be gone. Works like a charm.

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:45:30 PM #
The m505 is totally sealed so there are no particles inside of your screen. Period. Some of the Sony models do get dust inside of the screen but no Palm ones.

You can clean the outside with any piece of cloth or get yourself a lens cleaner from a camera shop if you are really paranoid. Don't use a paper towel or anything else paper.

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:55:50 PM #
"put it in the dishwasher on high (regular cycle) and all of the dust particles will be gone."

I'm not saying that your technique will work or not but wouldn't the Palm be rendered useless after doing this?

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 3:58:42 PM #
"wouldn't the Palm be rendered useless after doing this?"

No - your Palm device while being susceptible to micro-lint, it is actually completely water-resistant. It is not water-proof so don't submerge it, but it should be completely fine in the TOP TRAY of your dishwasher. Just make sure you use a good dishwasher detergent - like Cascade or Dawn - not the cheap stuff!

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 4:33:33 PM #
You BASTARD. I just tried this and now my m505 will NOT WORK AT ALL. Someone should censor the poster for putting up such destructive advice.

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 5:14:41 PM #
My m505 is squeaky clean! And now is has sheeting action! Thanks I.M. Anonymous!

RE: Question
escobar @ 2/26/2002 5:15:18 PM #
lmao..!!!!!

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 5:32:55 PM #
If you're not going to post useful information, don't post at all. Although the previous memeber had given advice on cleaning the Palm with a clothe, none of the particles will be gone unless you open the Palm of some sort, or get a new screen.


RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 5:36:47 PM #
Neat, it actually works. I'd make sure you use low water temperature if you have it, I think the hottest setting would open of the seals and let water in.

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:04:00 PM #
Just a side note, the microwave oven also works. The only drawback is that it takes almost 1 hour on high to vaporize all of the micro-lint inside the device screen. I prefer the dishwasher method, as it is much faster - but both work. HAPPY HUNTING!

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:29:20 PM #
Are you serious? or are you guys joking around?...
I do not want to damage the Palm, by microwaving it, or even diswashing it.

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 7:27:10 PM #
LISTEN: THESE GUYS WHO SAY YOU CAN PUT IT IN THE DISHWASHER OR MICROWAVE ARE TOTALLY JOKING. PLEASE DO NOT (DO NOT) DO THIS AS IT WILL MOST PROBABLY DESTROY YOUR UNIT.

I HOPE NOONE ACTUALLY DID THIS YET.

- David Jackson

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 10:35:50 PM #
I would rather recommend dry-cleaning. My m515 came with the advice to ONLY DRY CLEAN - no chemicals. No ironing (irony only).

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 5:25:56 AM #
... yes, but tell the laundry guys to go easy on the starch.

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:16:11 AM #
I sure you thought your idea of putting your Palm in the dishwasher was so impossible it was funny but you didn't go nearly far enough. Do you know the best way to clean your PC keyboard? Put it in the dishwasher. No kidding, that's really the best way. When it dishwasher gets finished, lay the keyboard face down for a few hours to make sure all the water drains out and it dries right.

If you'd wanted to be really out there, you should have suggested the m505 be taken apart and each piece soaked in gasoline.

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 10:07:41 AM #
Gasoline, no. But denatured alcohol would probably work just dandy.

Seriously folks, if you can't figure out that putting a Palm in a dishwasher is a joke, you don't deserve to own one. Do they still teach common sense in school these days? Good grief.

RE: Question
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 2:36:42 AM #
Milk! Washing it with milk will kill all germs and get rid of all dust. If that doesn't work, try the broiler.

Spotted on EBAY

sandbuck @ 2/26/2002 4:00:56 PM #
(For those who remember)
One (1) Commemorative Yankowski-series propane tank.

RE: Spotted on EBAY
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 4:05:59 PM #
???

RE: Spotted on EBAY
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 4:13:43 PM #
are you on crack?


RE: Spotted on EBAY
sandbuck @ 2/26/2002 4:30:49 PM #

Yeah I'm on crack all right....

From CNET

http://news.com.com/2011-1088-277831.html?tag=rmrftr

Palm bomb diffused with aplomb
Last week, Palm Computing staffers got a scare as their Santa Clara, Calif., headquarters were evacuated in a bomb scare.

Skinformants say a Palm VP was roaming the halls when he noticed what appeared to be a propane canister and a black briefcase sitting unattended in the hallway. No word if the witness heard a ticking sound emanating from the stray vessels, but the company confirmed accounts that the exec immediately phoned security.

Security at the Palm campus prudently decided that bomb diffusion exceeded their job description, called 911, and evacuated the building.

While staffers awaited the bomb squad, Chief Executive Carl Yankowski returned from his lunch break. On inquiring why the personnel of his troubled company was milling around in the California sunshine on a Monday afternoon, Yankowski was told of the mysterious propane tank and briefcase discovery and the resulting evacuation.

This was Yahkowski's cue to explain to his troops that he had brought his home barbecue's fuel tank into the office so the company's concierge service could have it refilled.

Skinformants report that Palm staffers subsequently enjoyed a productive afternoon.


RE: Spotted on EBAY
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 4:46:00 PM #
I get it. Very funny.

Carl brought his propane tank to work last year to get it refilled for free. He left it in the hallway which caused a security guard to evacuate the building because he thought it was a bomb.

Got to love a CEO who causes a day of work to be lost so he can save $5.

RE: Spotted on EBAY
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:10:06 PM #
> Got to love a CEO who causes a day of work to be lost so he can save $5.

Yanker was a CEO in name only. That idiot wasn't even fit to work in concierge. He's the kind of twit in elementary school you would have put into a corner with a dunce cap.

Yanker's recent explanations about his dismissal are completely inane and ridiculous. I put him in the same category as the Sugar Water Man, John Sculley. Marketing dorks nor sales people do not make good CEOs. It's a lesson the tech industry continues to repeat over-and-over-and-over-and-over again.



RE: Spotted on EBAY
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:10:34 PM #
Yank is a nice guy. I almost feel sorry for him - BUT - he did cash out with millions severance pay so he is sitting pretty and laughing all the way to the bank. He's a good man - honest - and he tried his best - but as they say, sometimes your best is not good enough. God bless him.

RE: Spotted on EBAY
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:29:37 PM #
Don't quit your day job. You aren't the least bit funny (unless you are funny looking).

RE: Spotted on EBAY
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:17:46 PM #
Who's smarter:

The guy who reaped millions from a severance package from a company he drove into the ground or the mindless minions who complain about what he did on newsgroup sites?

you can all bemoan the current status of palm inc. was due to his ineptness, but in the end, he's got millions in the bank and we're all spending time posting childish insults on this site.

just a reality check.

RE: Spotted on EBAY
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 7:44:31 PM #
Yanker has millions.
Tyson has millions.

Better poor and right than rich and foolish.



RE: Spotted on EBAY
sandbuck @ 2/27/2002 7:47:06 PM #
:)) I would have picked Iron Mike Tyson over the Yank-miester as Palm CEO. Why?



RE: Spotted on EBAY
sandbuck @ 2/27/2002 7:53:49 PM #
Answer: (insert you favorite masitcation joke here)

Plastic Screen

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 4:32:51 PM #
Anyone know if the 130 will have a plastic screen like the m100/105? I don't know whether or not color needs glass or plastic.

RE: Plastic Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:12:35 PM #
Same el-cheapo plastic. Glass is too expensive. Come on. They had to cut corners to get the cut-rate price. Also, the screen is like a Palm IIIc: in other words, it sucks outside, but looks decent inside. Also, the Hasbro toy-look isn't very becoming.

RE: Plastic Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:45:39 PM #
it has to be plastic anyway because of the price. And the m100 series is well known for how durable it is. It wont be as durable with a glass screen.

http://pdan.has.it

RE: Plastic Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 5:29:20 AM #
Plastic is better ... less trips to the Palm Graveyard that way. They should have used plastic since 1996!

m515 is about 6 months late.

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 6:46:25 PM #
It's outrageous that it took them a whole year to come up with this. Don't tell me that they were all working on OS5! That's the OS guys! What the heck were the Hardware guys doing??? Filling Gas Grills for the Executive Staff???

RE: m515 is about 6 months late.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 5:31:53 AM #
Well, there were the new m10x models, the i700 and producing/co-ordinating a full range of accessories for each. New models/accessories don't just grow on trees, you know, and neither does the cash for R&D/design/development.

Don't you have any homework to do?

RE: m515 is about 6 months late.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 7:02:43 AM #
m10x devices are nothing more than a basic rehash - in fact not much different from the original PalmPilot. The i705 is basically a rehash of the VIIx. Me? Homework? No, I am a professional and I happen to be very good at what I do. The people that need to do their homework is the team at Palm, Inc. These guys are putting themselves out of business with deplorable lack of effort. You can bet MSFT is not sleeping. Now how about you stop defending the indefensible?

RE: m515 is about 6 months late.
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 10:11:25 AM #
HA! I wouldn't hold up Microsoft as the model of innovation and efficiency if I were you. Microsoft isn't getting much sleep these days because the hackers find security holes in their software faster than Microsoft's coding teams can write patches for them. Palm may not innovate as fast as YOU'D like, but at least their products don't require weekly "critical updates."

RE: m515 is about 6 months late.
gaardii @ 2/28/2002 8:33:08 AM #
I've got to agree with the original poster. The M515 is too late. I'm sure it will be a great machine, but it will be what the M505 should have been. I've been a loyal Palm user for a while and totally love my Vx, but I think that Sony really has the advantage over Palm at the mo. Its a pity that opportunities have been wasted. In-built Bluetooth is what the M515 needs to make it stand out from the crowd; although rumours say it won't have Bluetooth. I'm definately not pro-Sony, or even pro-Palm inc. I'm pro-PalmOS and pro-whatever handheld allows the best usage of that OS.

Gordon from Edinburgh


GIMME THE DETAILS

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 7:48:44 PM #
I've been waiting not-so-patiently for the m515. I love my Vx, but am ready to upgrade. . . . my only concerns/lack of understandings: USB versus serial port for syncing? Is the m515 connector different - i.e. so my folding keyboard and current cradle won't work. . . .I currently use BackUp Buddy to make sure EVERYTHING gets backed up successfully. How does the backup card affect this - or does it???

Love this site - spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME on it! Thanx for the help!

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 12:15:25 AM #
i think backup buddy was designed to solve problems w/ the earlier versions of the palm desktop (eg., whatever version came w/ my palm 3x)... originally the desktop software didnt backup any of the extra apps on the palm, so if someone beamed me an application and my batteries died i wouldnt have a copy of that application on my computer. the newer version of the desktop avialable from palm fixes that issue and now it backs up all applications, email, etc

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 2:31:59 PM #
1. The m515 will use USB - BUT they have fixed the USB problems that plagued the m505

2. The m515 uses the universal connector (as will all new Palms for sometime to come) and will not work with your existing cradle or collapsable keyboard. This is nothing new as the Palm keyboard currently come in three different versions: V series, m1xx series and m5xx series (or somthing like this - somebody correct me if this breakdown is incorrect)

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
mstur @ 2/27/2002 2:56:29 PM #
I also own a Vx, with full size keyboard, 56K modem, travel set, USB adapter and cases...
Still: The 515 is the Palm I will buy for sure, even if that means I will have to sell all my old equipment, as well as my Vx, on ebay ;-)
Main reasons for this:
1. Screen
2. BlueT card
3. 16 MB on board RAM

These three factors are enough for me to switch. I am sure I can get some reasonable return on ebay for my old Vx and its peripherals, esepcially since it has had no problems when syncing over USB to my iMac.


RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 4:12:36 PM #
OK - next question - explain bluetooth. . .

RE: GIMME BLUETOOTH
rigter @ 2/28/2002 4:19:35 AM #
There are many bluetooth articles, also on PIC, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

Bluetooth is a wireless communication protocol.
It allows bluetooth enabled appliances to connect to each other from several meters away. Perfect for home/office/car environment.

These appliances do not need eye contact. You can play with your pda while your phone sits in your pocket and send mails or whatever.
The protocol allows these appliances to tell each other which services they have available, which effectively means that these machines can autodetect each other and use the other automagically.

Bluetooth is cheap. A bt chip costs a fist full of dollars only.

With bluetooth you can connect your pda to your GPRS phone (hey, I'm in Europe) and be 'always on'. You can send and receive mail, surf the web and what not. You can type some stuff at your desk, send it to a bt-enabled printer without the need for anything in between. You can pop your handheld in its car cradle and instantly it becomes the center of operations of whatever it is you desire.

Infrared tried to get rid of all the cables from our desks. Bluetooth will actually do it.

Bt-chips are so small and cheap that you could even put them in keyboards and other pda peripherals. Goodbye universal-connector-that-wasn't-so-universal-after-all. One bt keyboard works for all bt enabled appliances that can accept text input. Brand loyalty is no longer forced upon you because of incompatible connectors.

Sounds like some sci-fi futuristic panorama?
Wrong! All of the above is technically possible today.

Palm (?) has released a bluetooth SD card that sticks out half a country mile from the pda and costs a fist full of some pretty large dollar bills.
That denies a lot, but not all, advantages from bt. That is why a lot of posters cry for built in bt, and I am one of them.
I can buy a battery for my nokia phone that has a bt chip in it today, but why? I want 'always on' invisible connectivity. Not some monstrosity taking up the only expansion slot available.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 8:15:47 AM #
I'm not sure if some of the pro-Sony faction are truly understanding the argument here. I think most m505 users are rational enough to realize that the T615's screen is better.

It's just that the Sony crowd (and I'm talking to YOU, Mr. "Reality Distortion Algorithm") has this smug attitude that the T615 is somehow superior in every way to anything Palm offers, (or will offer) or anything anyone ELSE offers, either. You need to GET OVER IT. The T615 is a very nice machine. It is not perfect, however. The m505 is a pretty nice machine, as well, as are the Visor Prism, Handera 330, etc., etc., etc.

Why does the Sony crowd continually seek to crown their handheld as "king of all PDAs?" Are you that insecure in your own status as humans?

Someone PLEASE answer this for me...

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 8:18:54 AM #
My dear RIGTER: Thanx for info. Very scary! While the idea of always on/always connected can be a good thing, there are certainly days where always off/sometimes disconnected can be even better. I've worked for more years than I care to think about, and remember the days when my boss flying across the country meant a peaceful day in the office. . . . now with cell phones and air phones and email and all this other COOL stuff. . . . . . i sometimes miss the old days!

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 8:36:09 AM #
"I'm not sure if some of the pro-Sony faction are truly understanding the argument here. I think most m505 users are rational enough to realize that the T615's screen is better.

It's just that the Sony crowd (and I'm talking to YOU, Mr. "Reality Distortion Algorithm") has this smug attitude that the T615 is somehow superior in every way to anything Palm offers, (or will offer) or anything anyone ELSE offers, either. You need to GET OVER IT. The T615 is a very nice machine. It is not perfect, however. The m505 is a pretty nice machine, as well, as are the Visor Prism, Handera 330, etc., etc., etc.

Why does the Sony crowd continually seek to crown their handheld as "king of all PDAs?" Are you that insecure in your own status as humans?

Someone PLEASE answer this for me..."

huh !? , what's up with this post, is it just me or is it not making any sense ?

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 9:18:57 AM #
He makes perfect sense to me. The Sony-heads (I think there are about 2 or 3 of them) who add comments to every story that isn't about Sony saying that the T615C is the greatest thing since ice cream are the best reason I know of to NOT buy a Sony.

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 12:28:53 PM #
Well I think there's also 2 or 3 pro palm people who trash talks about Clie whenever he has a chance, for exxample this thread is not even about Clie or sony, it's not even remotely related to Clie, it's about bluetooth but some Palm trolls could actually post something like this here.

"I'm not sure if some of the pro-Sony faction are truly understanding the argument here. I think most m505 users are rational enough to realize that the T615's screen is better.

It's just that the Sony crowd (and I'm talking to YOU, Mr. "Reality Distortion Algorithm") has this smug attitude that the T615 is somehow superior in every way to anything Palm offers, (or will offer) or anything anyone ELSE offers, either. You need to GET OVER IT. The T615 is a very nice machine. It is not perfect, however. The m505 is a pretty nice machine, as well, as are the Visor Prism, Handera 330, etc., etc., etc.

Why does the Sony crowd continually seek to crown their handheld as "king of all PDAs?" Are you that insecure in your own status as humans?

Someone PLEASE answer this for me..."

Now can somebody tell me is it just me or is the poster of the above message out of his mind ?

I am not pro sony, I don't even have a clie, but the fact is Clie does offer the best PDAs out there right now, and no matter what palm trolls say they still can't change the fact that M505 has the worst color screen in the history of computing.

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 12:42:47 PM #
I'd be happy if both groups were banned from the site. The rest of us really tired of you weird-o fanatics.

RE: GIMME THE DETAILS
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 11:57:09 PM #
"
I'm not sure if some of the pro-Sony faction are truly understanding the argument here. I think most m505 users are rational enough to realize that the T615's screen is better.

It's just that the Sony crowd (and I'm talking to YOU, Mr. "Reality Distortion Algorithm") has this smug attitude that the T615 is somehow superior in every way to anything Palm offers, (or will offer) or anything anyone ELSE offers, either. You need to GET OVER IT. The T615 is a very nice machine. It is not perfect, however. The m505 is a pretty nice machine, as well, as are the Visor Prism, Handera 330, etc., etc., etc.

Why does the Sony crowd continually seek to crown their handheld as "king of all PDAs?" Are you that insecure in your own status as humans?

Someone PLEASE answer this for me..."


...??????

this guy is a moron or obsessed against Sony
the topic is BT!!!

jeez!!!


RE: GIMME BLUETOOTH
rigter @ 3/1/2002 8:06:56 AM #
To continue the Bluetooth discussion...

Being 'always on' has indeed certain consequences, especially for privacy related items.

But I think the main hurdle there has already been taken. The introduction of the mobile phone has given people the freedom to communicate away from a cord leading into the wall. You can communicate wherever you are. No more ropes.
I'm glad that people are beginning to realize that this doesn't mean you've got to have this thing switched on all day. There are places and circumstances where you put that thing away, and not just in a theatre.

Bluetooth has the ability to add my computing environment to this.
You bet I will push that big black button whenever I do not want to be disturbed by my printer sending me an sms saying toner is low.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

m515 Pictures

Davy @ 2/26/2002 8:06:57 PM #
Yeah, yeah. It's really me, Davy, not some I.M. anonymous. Anyway, there's been some postings of the new m515 in the m505 yahoogroup

http://makeashorterlink.com/?C5861577

You have to be a member to actually view the photos, but lots of people are already. Just for some background, this pictures are of m515 guts in an m505 shell, don't ask me why.

-Davy Fields

RE: m515 Pictures
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:16:43 AM #
The photos make the screen look pretty darn good. Being brighter it is harder to see the grid lines although they are more visible than the T615 screen's lines BUT the color saturation blows the T615 out of the water. I have a m505 I really wish would break now so I could justify getting the m515 but I will hold out for the fall and the ARM OS 5 processors. I will just "borrow" my wife's T615 once and a while to glimpse the future.

RE: m515 Pictures
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:19:00 AM #
PS: people having trouble with the above link are having problems because they are not registered (for free) on the yahoo group for the m505.

Try this link: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/m505

to get started, register, then go to the "photos" link.

Palm Needs To Do More

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 8:22:01 PM #
Don't get me wrong. If there wasn't Palm in the first place, there wouldn't be any of this heated discussions about Palm vs Sony vs Handspring, etc.

BUT Palm needs to do more than just release an "upgrade" to their m5xx series with features that should have been there in the first place. Fair enough, as one reader commented they are on their way out of "Yank-assic Park" era but they need to think far ahead for their product line and not play catch up.

I am no industrial designer, just an end-user but show me a Palm and a Sony equivalent I am going to ask serious questions about the Palm features. Some say the buttons are the biggest gripe for the Sony - I don't disagree but the features and value far outweigh that. Unless you are a serious gamer, those buttons are not going to detract your user experience.

My gripe with Palm is - for a company that came up with the Palm V which to me broke the grounds for the PDA market and was a tech leader, how come they are still coming out with duds? Eversince the Palm V, IMHO I think the i705 was their best product and to think they shelved that for the colored Palms first.

Wake up Palm!

RE: Palm Needs To Do More
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 10:05:05 PM #
Like I said before:

Regardless. For new users, the Palm m130 and m515 are going to be hits baby!

RE: Palm Needs To Do More
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/26/2002 10:11:14 PM #
Had both - for all the high res of the screen, the amount of time I spend looking at pictures on a palm pilot is really limited...maybe I work too hard. I miss the class of the m505. If I was deciding between m515 and T615...go the former unless you want to spend your life waiting for accessories (esp keyboard) that may never come before Sony releases yet another model with yet another connector to obselesce accessories which dont even exist yet...

AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:16:30 AM #
In short, Palm will sell as many of these new pda's as they can make. Why Do I make such a statement? Well here are some FACTS:

Palm: M515/M130/I705 are designed to fit 85% of today's PDA Market. The other 15% going to grayscale lower end models. Palm has the infrastructure in place to make these units very successfull. They all share the same universal connector, they all have SD/MMC. There are countless numbers of accessories available from Palm and many accessory makers. Palm has a strong corporate presence that will help push many of these devices to large corporations and so on. Palm customer support and product backing is superior to most others.

Handspring: one word: TREO. No other viable PDA's in their future. Clearly HS has decided to abandon PDA's and concentrate on PDA/Phone combo devices. The end of HS will come as a result of this dependance on a single product and the lack of innovation across a broad spectrum. Nuff said about HS, they're no longer a player.

Sony: Hmmmmm, where do I start.... Well If it weren't for the constant,incessant, putrid behavior which Most sony owners exhibit, then Sony might sell quite a few more clies. Here's what's not in sony's favor, they make nice products but they tend to try and monopolize segments of the market by creating propeitary products that require the user to go back to sony again and again. This will fail them in the end. Plus the fact that the T615 is nothing but an OVERPRICED REMOTE CONTROL. Lousy stylus, buttons, short battery life, lack of AVAILABLE accessories, awful customer service/support, memory-Shtick and so on. So Sony will continue to sell 5-6% of the PDA market and eventually leave the whole thing in order to concentrate on things they do better such as TV's and Playstations, etc.

Handera: What? These guys are gone and soon. They came up with a great product in the 330, but have failed to evolve on the idea. Maybe palm will aquire Handera and get them out of their misery. (Handera's Misery that is...)

And Finally, PPC: very simple this one. BULK Redefined.

SO the M515 and M130 will be a huge success for palm and rightly so. Priced right and targeted at the correct audience.

Finally, Knowing that all you Sony whiners will attack me for what I've just said, I say this: Wait One year and we will see where the sales figures are and who's left standing in the PDA wars. Now go on with your clies and continue searching for that "yet to be announced" accessory or font fix for your super-duper Hi-Res screen and ejoy them while they last 3-4 months until sony brings in a new PDA with a new connector and the ever popular SONY-CYCLE begins again.......

Sorry to have gone on so long in this comment but I feel very good about these new products from palm and I will be at the store on Monday the 4th of March, picking up my new M515 and loving every minute of it.



RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 2:29:25 AM #
I would be surprised if they can sell these products AT ALL. people know that they are going to switch to the new ARM hardware platform which has alot more to offer than the old dragonball processor, so if I don't have a PDA now and thinking of getting one what should I do. Wait a bit longer, otherwise you'll be blaming yourself by about August 2002.

As for those 85% / 15% statistics crap, you have no idea what you are talking about do you ??

as for the Sony comment, you can keep saying that, but that won't change the fact that sony saved the Palm platform from the marketshare landslide.

You say Memorystick is propeitary, LoL guess what SD/MMC is not that open either.

I don't know how good those (not announced) palm devices will be, so I am not going to comment to how Clie T615 is better than any of them.

As for Handspring, 2 words, Good luck. They sucked as a Liar, and sucked even worse at their innovation department.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 2:39:58 AM #
Sorry me again :)

"Finally, Knowing that all you Sony whiners will attack me for what I've just said, I say this: Wait One year and we will see where the sales figures are and who's left standing in the PDA wars."

hehe, many people said that in 2001 that Sony is going to totally cut their PDA product in 2002, guess what guys, it's Handspring who will stop making PDAs in 2002. Let's see who's next.

In 2001 Sony's market share jumped from less than 1% to 6%, doesnt those figures tell you something ? In fact I got my statistics from CNET which they got their data from some reliable market research comapnies. Unlike some ppl who just throw around numbers like 85% ppl want color, and worse of all he actually say it's a fact LoL, what a joke.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 5:41:26 AM #
Those 1% to 6% figures look dubious to me. The original CLIE 300 was such a dog that it could not possibly have got 1% of any market.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
rigter @ 2/27/2002 5:41:57 AM #
Don't write off HandEra, yet.

Indication that a new model is coming up in april/may.
A color 330 with some other minor improvements.

This means that there will be a powerful color pda on the market before the Sony/Palm/PPC wars will begin in the fall, before the holiday season. A pda with some obvious attractions for both first time buyers and seasoned power users.
HandEra could earn some serious money there. At the same time, it is a gamble to continue an aging (visual) design like the 330. Technically, this machine is up there with the Palms and the Sony's with enough features to stand out from the crowd.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 6:12:16 AM #
PDA Wars?? Are you for real? These are all just oprganizers. Nothing more.

Most people don't give a s@#t about any of this stuff. It seems the Palm infocenter is being overrun by Losers1

Instead of having a good debate and disussing the products you compare selling pdas to a war?

Get a life.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
rigter @ 2/27/2002 7:48:52 AM #
Personally, I couldn't care less.
But looking at the flame wars between some Palm and Sony users, I think the term "war" is fairly accurate.

There are too many people here who use every opportunity they can get to post negative flames about other people's pda's. Their own particular pda being far superior of course...

Sorry if I did not make that clear enough in my previous post.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
*/

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 7:58:16 AM #
I don't see how these two are going to sell like hot cake.

m515 is just rehash of m505, nothing new except more memory. Did handspring suddenly sell like a hot cake after they release the 16Mb model? I don't think so. It's just tired line breathing it's last gasp.

the m130 might fare better at $280, provided Sony doesn't come out next week with similar color model with Hi-res and mp3 at $250.

Then comes Cebit and April, Pictures already floating around with Fujitsu LOOX, Toshiba, and bunch of Acer/Asus. These are all PX250, small, CE .net and around $450. There goes m50x sales.

so once again Palm is selling in low margin range again. Gone are the days of $499 Vx.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:21:30 AM #
Yes man, i so TOTALLY agree with you!! Palm is an EXCELLENT company with GREAT VISION and they will show all those RIPPOFS like sony and handera who RULEZ the PALM SCENE! kick ass! I can see endless rows of people standing in line and just BEGGING and SCREAMING for one of these HOT BABIES! everybody should be FORCED to switch to these new PALM models because they are so totally AWESOME. where all competitors are completely CLUELESS when it comes to developing a good pda, palm is shows who is the KING!

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:36:24 AM #
In short: i'd rather have an overpriced remote control from sony than an overpriced doorstop from palm.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:40:01 AM #
thats retarded..palms are good,they arent door stops. and sony's do have basically the best palms out right now.i cant wait for next years clie's.they will kick ass!

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:55:08 AM #
From original post:

"In short, Palm will sell as many of these new pda's as they can make. Why Do I make such a statement? Well here are some FACTS:"

Huh? Most of what you have written are NOT FACTS but OPINIONS.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
mfs @ 2/27/2002 10:27:52 AM #
"people know that they are going to switch to the new ARM hardware platform which has alot more to offer than the old dragonball processor"

People do not know this. The average user (first time PDA owner) is not surfing the net everyday looking for Palm news. Those first time buyers will go to best buy and look at all the different options and will buy on what the salesman/women tells them, which is very little...

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 11:13:59 AM #
I agree with you. Not a whole lot of people read these types of forum. Average Joe/Jane looking for a Palm base unit will love the m130 and m515.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 11:26:06 AM #
>"Palm has a strong corporate presence that will help push many of these devices to large corporations and so on."

And you're basing this on...? There are alot of individuals in corporations who use Palm PDAs, but don't confuse that with corporations actually buying them. For a large corporation to buy PDAs, they, the CIOs, have to consider whether or not they fit nicely with the pre-existing Windows environment. In addition, the Palm OS has been dinged constantly for its lack of real security measures.

>"Well If it weren't for the constant,incessant, putrid behavior which Most sony owners exhibit, then Sony might sell quite a few more clies."

Huh? How does one equate into the other? By your argument, Palm is definitely in trouble because of people like you who "exhibit" this "constant, incessant, putrid behavior." You base none of your arguments on fact and let emotion and conjecture run amok.

>"Wait One year and we will see where the sales figures are and who's left standing in the PDA wars."

Let's look back one year: Palm had 50.4% of pda market. Now they're roughly 38.4%. Sony had 1% in 2000 and now they're 6%. I highly doubt that the new units will revive their market figures, in light of increased competition from new hardware licensees.



RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 12:48:59 PM #
"There are too many people here who use every opportunity they can get to post negative flames about other people's pda's. Their own particular pda being far superior of course..."

I totally agree with you, You can praise Palm all you want, but why do you have to pull Sony, Handspring, Handera in so you could give them a few cheap shot ? And worse of all he says that his Cheap shots are FACTS.. OMG, please go homebuy a dictionary and check what's the meaning the FACT, it doesn't mean personal opinion or reality after your reality distortion field.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 2:40:25 PM #
>Palm is an EXCELLENT company with GREAT VISION and they will show all those RIPPOFS like sony and handera

You are an idiot.
Palm is now 2 companies: PalmSource(the OS) and Palm Inc (the hardware guys).

Are Compaq/HP/Dell/Gateway and IBM ripping off Microsoft (analgous to the PalmSource situation)?

Are Compaq/HP/Dell and Gateway ripping off IBM(analgous to the Palm Inc situation)?

PalmSource certainly doens't consider Sony to be 'ripping them off'. For PalmOS, Sony is good business.

You idiots should think before devolving into such a juvenile pissing match.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
Ed @ 2/27/2002 3:25:18 PM #
>> "Palm has a strong corporate presence that will help push many of these
> > devices to large corporations and so on."

> And you're basing this on...?

Recently, IDC questioned more than 1,100 IT managers from all sizes of businesses and found that Palm handhelds outstrip all others overwhelmingly, with 60% of the companies currently purchasing Palm branded handhelds. Handspring was in a tie for number two with Compaq at less than 30%. The Palm OS platform is likewise supported by more than 60% of the companies -- which is nearly double that of any other operating system.

You can read more about this here:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2628


---
News Editor

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 4:25:23 PM #
Thank You Ed. I'm the one who made the original comment and boy did I apparently upset some people or what? They can't handle any representation of reality that doesn't favor their angled point of view.

All I was trying to say is that with these two new handhelds, Palm has positioned itself as the true dominant player in the PDA market. I was also trying to paint a picture of what "I" think will happen in the PDA market in the coming future. Take it for what its worth.

And for those who must resort to calling me names, you people need to get a life. You're nothing but a bunch of Homebound geeks who have nothing better to do other than to bash people over the head for speaking their mind. SO what if I like Palm? SO what if I'm one of the millions who like and use Palm hardware and software? I work in the automotive industry and this debate reminds me of all the Ford Vs. Chevy debates that people always have. Yet Ford and Chevy both make good product and both continue to sell cars. The same goes for PDA's. Palm and Sony and Compaq may continue to sell many PDA's with many players who will come and go, i.e. Handspring, Handera, Psion, Apple etc....

By the way I DO welcome responses to my thoughts here and above but please can we keep this CIVIL, CONSTRUCTIVE Discussion. I'm not here to bash anyone for the Kind of PDA they CHOOSE to use...and I expect to be treated the same way.

Thanks again Ed. I can't possibly say enough good things about this site.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 8:26:17 PM #
"I was also trying to paint a picture of what "I" think will happen in the PDA market in the coming future. Take it for what its worth. "

Now you call those things you said what you think but before you call those things you said as FACTS, O well I am glad that your reality distortion field didn't reach my place.

"In short, Palm will sell as many of these new pda's as they can make. Why Do I make such a statement? Well here are some FACTS:"

"And for those who must resort to calling me names, you people need to get a life. You're nothing but a bunch of Homebound geeks who have nothing better to do other than to bash people over the head for speaking their mind. SO what if I like Palm? SO what if I'm one of the millions who like and use Palm hardware and software?"

NONONO .. no one was doing the name calling thing, if there's anyone who's doing the name calling thing, it's you who are calling those people who replied to your post as "Homebound geeks".

And yeah there are millions of people who owns a Palm OS Device, but doesnt mean they necessary LOVE their palm device, it was like the only feasible PDA in town, of course there's competition now, but look how palm crumbles, it dropped from like 9x% market share to about 50% (is it ?? I can't remember) doesnt those numbers tell you something ?? They lose the touch already.

All I was trying to say was, these 2 new device will not sell well. Because the next generation ARM Based palm device is right around the corner. Well they could amaze me by putting an ARM chip in it when they actually announces it, then I might actually buy one.

btw: don't try to put Apple and Psion in the discussion, this will only start some pretty ugly platform war, coz you know and I know Palm's still not on par with either Newton or EPOC.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
Vexel9 @ 2/27/2002 11:47:36 PM #
Isn't it so much fun to make bold statements without being held liable for any of it?

Posting anonymously is so much fun!

Before anything else i am a fan of all Palm OS pda's. I also am a fan of great products and companies who push the envelope of innovation and design. Quite frankly PALM's last greatest innovation was the Vx. Although i am a huge fan of the m505 screen in terms of power consumption, the impending m515 is what the m505 should have been. I love Palm but i have been quite disappointed with them as of late. I hope they recover from their 2001 debacle but they certainly can't afford another flagship unit flop.

Lastly i must comment on your gross generalization of Sony products. You fail to mention what 320x320 has done for the overall look of the Palm OS. although Sony'y Hires MAY only be a hack and not a true 320X320 that is restricted by the OS not SONY's capabilities. Imagine if Sony decided to go with a Pocket PC and all its hardware capabilities? As much as i hate to admit it, Sony has replaced PALM as the PDA leader of innovation and design. Not to mention good pricing of their products. Within the last 3 quarters how many units have PALM introduced? How many has PALM?

Lets hope that your assertions of PALM are correct, but i must point out that some of your statements are gross generalizations of the industry.

Palm rulez!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 11:55:55 PM #
Shut the F*ck up!!
Palm sells more PDAS than Sony+Handera+Handspring+Pocket PCs!!!!



RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 12:07:30 AM #
And how long has Palm been selling PDA ?? 6 years ??
That's like 2 times as long as handspring, and about 5 times as long as Sony's making PDAs, and about 3 times longer than Handera. For christ sake if they are selling less PDA than them then you would be really worried about Palm Inc.

and this is not the kind of "CIVIL, CONSTRUCTIVE Discussion" I expect from people that uses Palm. I thought they are all very civilized that why they think all clie users are trolls.

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 3:29:06 AM #
To Vexel9:
"Sony'y Hires MAY only be a hack and not a true 320X320"

Is this true? If so, would there be a way to "hack" the m505/m515 to 320x320?

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
rigter @ 2/28/2002 5:50:52 AM #
No, there is no way to hack 320 into a 505.
The pixels simply aren't there. Sony uses a screen that actually has that many pixels.

Palm OS 4 and below does not support anything but 160 so Sony and HandEra had to hack the OS to get the beautiful screens their machines have, each in their own way.

Palm OS 5 will support other screen formats than 160 but the actual implementation differs from the hack that Sony used to pull it off. I believe Sony has already indicated that it will follow the new standard. Anyone more info on this?
Does not sound unreasonable because OS 5 means a new hardware platform anyway and code forking could lead to compatibility problems, and most developers would probably choose to follow Palm anyway.

Don't know about HandEra.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

RE: AWESOME STUFF FROM PALM!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 9:01:20 AM #
I am going to through my 2 cents in here. There was a comment made why would anyone buy this if ARM processors. As I work for a large corporation that develops a huge volume of products, it would seem to me that the Palm hardware guys were all focused on the 515. Sure some were obviously involved, but since the ARM processors are coming, wouldn't it be easy to assume that some of them are working on the ARM hardware. I personally love my 505, sure a brighter screen would be helpful but I love the battery life. It would seem that Palm created the 515 to add more memory and fix some of the problems with the 505 (which I have had any problems with mine) and at the same time they get volumes of scale since most the components in the 515 are the same as a 505. It would be a wise business move to have their resources dedicated to the upcoming models.

Mike

OS5 will not have ARM

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 11:35:51 AM #
It is my understanding that OS5 will not use ARM processors; that will be a feature of OS6 (someone back me up on this). This means that all those people waiting for OS5 devices will be disappointed because the only improvement they will be getting is 320x320 resolution, which has already been on the market for some time.

So for people that want to buy a Palm Inc. device, they might have to go with the 515 until the innovative OS6 Palms with ARM processors, multitasking, a real filesystem, etc., come out in late 2003. Unless, of course, you want to spend your money on an OS5 device with higher res, but in that case you could just buy a Sony right now.

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 11:56:17 AM #
RE: OS5 will not have LEG too
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 1:37:15 PM #
Totally agree with you, unlike Aibo Palm OS 5 won't have Arms and Legs

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 2:46:03 PM #
I will summarize for those who might not click on the above link and may get the wrong idea from the above post:

PALM OS 5 IS ALL ABOUT MOVING TO ARM PROCESSORS - in fact, thats the only major change in the new OS!!!(ok - there will also be better security, a bundled web browser and VPN support)

Have you not read anything on this subject? The major upgrade in OS6 (or 5.5 depending on who you talk to) will be multi-tasking / multi-threading.

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:27:45 PM #
I think your information is incorrect. That link includes nothing which states that OS5 will include ARM support (Of course, I may be mistaken). You will have to wait until OS6 for that.

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
Ed @ 2/27/2002 3:37:29 PM #
A better link to have given would have been:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2965

As someone said, the entire point of OS 5 is the move to ARM-based processors. There won't be a version of OS 5 for the Dragonball family at all.

What you may be thinking of is the complaints that some people have made that OS 5 doesn't take full advantage of these new processors. OS 5 is basically a port of OS 4 to the new chips and many of the new features people have been hoping for, like multi-tasking etc. will have to wait until OS 5.5/6.0, whatever PalmSource decides to call it. Nevertheless, the handhelds Palm will release before this fall will run ARM-based chips from Texas Instruments.

However, because the better processors are there, you can expect people like Sony and Palm to include features that take advantage of them, like built-in MP3 players. Also, I spoke with several developers at PalmSource who say they will be able to use OS 5 to create great multimedia applications, games, etc.

---
News Editor

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 3:37:32 PM #
Seriously are you refering to the same ARM I am refering to ?? That is the ARM chip, not the ARM that connect your HAND to your BODY.

OS5 will be running on ARM processor for sure.

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 6:28:03 PM #
You dear sir are totally wrong.

OS 5 = ARM. High Res native APIs. High level security APIs. Program hooks to native ARM calls but bulk of programs run in "PACE" emulation. All programs will be forward and backward compatible for OS 4 and OS 5 if written correctly.

OS 6 = ARM. All of the above + Native programs for ARM (which won't run on pre-OS 6 machines), enhanced UI, multithreading and memory protection. Continued legacy support of pre-OS 6 apps with "PACE" emulation.

Palmsource, Inc. intends OS 5 to release as early as September (Gold master to companies by early Summer or even late Spring) with Palm Hardware promising a handheld with built in bluetooth, a TI ARM processor, and OS 5 by this fall (likely also with a 320x320 screen.)

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 6:35:04 PM #
PS: OS 6 also will have enhanced PIM apps and is scheduled to be release no later than 12 months after OS 5. Also OS 5 will NOT be produced in a non-ARM form, ie. all current Palms even with flashable ROM can NOT upgrade to OS 5 although Palmsource, Inc. has left a slim chance that SOME of the OS 5 APIs ala High Res, Security, etc. MIGHT (heavy emphasis) be produced in some form of OS 4.5 for current handhelds.

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 9:44:03 PM #
Essentially for the rest of us, there is no reason to upgrade to a more expensive ARM-based OS 5 machine. We should be waiting for the OS 6 machines that will come out in late 2003.

If you want hi-res, you have choices from other companies.



RE: OS5 will not have ARM
pontif @ 2/28/2002 12:06:48 AM #
I really hate to jump into this fray, but OS 5 is the first ARM (and ARM ONLY) Palm OS. OS 5.5 (or 6) adds lots of the features everybody was wishing for in the 5.0 release.

However, some (many?) licensees are saying they will be offering first generation ARM units with OS 5.0 that can be flashed to OS 5.5 or OS 6 when it becomes available. You wouldn't get the hardware advances that come along in the year between os 5 and os 6, but you could still get the OS 6 updates. (At least the ones that don't require some new hardware advance, like speakers or audio hardware.)

RE: OS5 will not have ARM
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 1:30:06 AM #
That exactly my understanding of the situation as well. Once the ARM devices come out w/OS5, presuming they have flash ROM (almost all do these days except maybe low-end units), you will be able to upgrade to 5.5 or 6.0 - just like users of older Palm devices (3.0, 3.1, 3.5) have been able to purchase the 4.1 upgrade (again - if there machine has flash ROM).

So, if you want an ARM based PalmOS device that will be able to run OS 6.0, you won't have to wait til 2003 - you'll be able to get them this fall.

Insignificant step for the consumer, giant leap for Palm

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 7:31:08 PM #
Does palm even have an R&D department?

Palm should get an award for being the only computer company to break Moore's law for so many years and still have any marketshare. Compare the laptops and palms of 1996 to equivalents today. I think automobiles are improving faster than Palm's products.

A 505 with a fixed screen and $2 more memory, there's a winner!


RE: Insignificant step for the consumer, giant leap for Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 1:07:49 AM #
Moore's Law is not a law at all. It is marketing hype which allows Mr Moore to double the value of his Intel stock every 18 months by forcing users into increasingly unnecessary ungrades to run software bloated with useless gimmicks.

Forget Moore's Law and think about the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility.



INTEL
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 6:55:05 AM #
INTEL is a great company. They create faster and faster processors which allow us to use more and nore powerful software to do more and more powerful things with our computers. 18 Months ago we only had 1Ghz chips. Now we have 2+ Ghz chips. In 2003, we will have 4+Ghz chips. ALSO, as these faster chips come out, the price on the slower chips go down - and the consumer WINS. Granted, everyone doesn't need 4Ghz now, but someday we will and if it drives down prices of the 2Ghz - that's great. Don't knock Intel or Gordon Moore - we have a lot to thank them for. Intel does more innovating in one hour than Palm, Inc. does all year.

RE: Insignificant step for the consumer, giant leap for Palm
rigter @ 2/28/2002 8:08:12 AM #
I do agree that it is not Intel who is responsible for bloated operating systems that continue to show blue screens with cryptic gpf's.

It is true however, that hardware sellers thank whatever lord they worship on their bare knees for every new release of the windows operating system and matching cpu power from intel to run it. Large masses run to their shops to buy new computers in fear of being left behind.
Companies should realize that there is an end to the office features and gadgets that can be built into a word processor. They are the ones who keep buying the new crap. Microsoft has even found a new licensing model to ensure that these companies must upgrade at a higher frequency than before.

So far Palm managed to stay away from this soap bubble of non-functionality disguised as new features most of us will never use. That is why some people here call some other people who use ppc's trolls.
But I agree with the original poster. Merely repairing what should have been right in the first place is not exactly a strong move in my opinion.

A bluetooth card has been released. That means that all the basic coding and testing of api's has been done. Including it would have been a no-brainer imho.

Both Sony and HandEra have tried in the past to cooperate with Palm on the subject of screen resolution for obvious reasons. While I do not know the finer details of these negotiations, it is my opinion that Palm could have moved faster to set a standard. I am convinced that the evolution of the Palm OS was a bit slow the past year(s). Let's hope the new management and the new OS 5 will change things.
But we're entering another subject here.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

RE: Insignificant step for the consumer, giant leap for Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 7:15:20 PM #
The complaints about lack of innovation do not make sense if, like the original poster, you look at the developments since 1996.

Here is an example. The original Palm Pilot 1000 had 512k of RAM; the m515 apparently has 16M (ignore the SD card support for now). This means that in 5-6 years there has been an almost 32 fold increase in onboard memory or a roughly 3,100% improvement. Do you have a problem with this?

Will that rate of inprovement be kept up for the next 6 years? I doubt it.

The problem is that technology does not keep advancing at a steedy pace. After a while, all the possibilities of a particular breakthrough are exploited and it becomes harder to keep up the pace of innovation.

For example, monochrome screens are now about as good as they will ever be using LCD technology. Until different technology becomes available, it is just senseless to complain lack of innovation/improvements. (Color screens and hi-res are not innovations in the sense of new technology; they are just possible answers to different consumer needs.)

The point is this: Palm is listening to its customers and making improvements to its (already successful) products.

I think they deserve some praise, not just more of the same innane complaints.

RE: Insignificant step for the consumer, giant leap for Palm
rigter @ 3/1/2002 7:30:49 AM #
I agree with the previous poster that the development of computers in general and handhelds in particular has taken place at an unbelievable speed. Palm clearly listened to its customers.

But that was not my point.
Palm listened to complaints about screen quality and onboard memory. Fine.
Palm is about to release a product with specs the original 505 should have had in the first place. The competition does have these specs. Palm aimed high with the 505, but the competition has shown them not high enough.

Palm had the opportunity to do better.

Bluetooth is the first example of that.
Coding and testing has been done. A bt product is out. This should have been a no-brainer imo. Take the lead and be the first Palm OS device to have it onboard. Not a sensation because Compaq has already released a ppc with onboard bt. Compete.

The screen is the second example.
Both Sony and HandEra have tried to cooperate with Palm on that subject but in the end had to do it alone. A more open minded development model of the Palm OS would have incorporated flexible screen resolution in version 4. Both the knowledge and the partners to work with were there. What more could you possibly ask for?

I think it would have solved another problem too.
The 515 won't be seen as the logical next step in the evolution of the Palm pda. It is a 505 with 'bugfixes'. Dim screen, USB problem and lack of memory fixed. What price can you ask for the remaining 505's?
Too much, and nobody will buy them.
Too cheap, and the price of a 515 suddenly seems too much for just a few bugfixes. And Palm won't make money out of this generation of handhelds anymore.

If you're going to be late, fine. Just make sure you have learned from the things other have done. Don't just catch up with them.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

Remaining 505's - What price point?

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 7:35:32 AM #
With the 515 being released very soon, what will Palm do with the remaining stock of 505's? Will they attempt to sell them at retailers for a drastically decreased price? If so, any idea what that price point may be? I imagine it will be somewhat close to the price point of the upcoming 130 since they are similar in spec, but the 505 is nearly a year old. Or, will Palm just collect the remaining 505's and eat the possible sales? Just wondering because a local retailer currently has 8 505's left. Thanks for any info.

Enhanced I/R

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 9:04:35 AM #
Hi,

Does anybody know if the new m515 will have an enhanced I/R like the T615?

I've heard it said on this site that the m505 already has a I/R capable of controling A/V devices from 15 feet away, but when I checked out the specs of the 505 on the Palm site, it says the I/R is only capable of much less.

I know it's a bit of a gimmicky feature for a PDA, but it might tip the balance when I come to choose my next machine.

Thanks,
Rob

RE: Enhanced I/R
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 9:39:10 AM #
> I've heard it said on this site that the m505
> already has a I/R capable of controling A/V devices
> from 15 feet away, but when I checked out the specs
> of the 505 on the Palm site, it says the I/R is only
> capable of much less.

I think the Palm site may be doing the port a disservice; my m505 has a range of at least 10 feet, and Pacific Neotek seem to give similar results here...

http://www.pacificneotek.com/range.htm

Ian Davenport

RE: Enhanced I/R
Altema @ 2/28/2002 11:12:56 PM #
An interesting perspective comes from the OmniRemote website, where they have done rather extensive testing of IR capabilities. Their test results showed the M505 as being able to work at up to 50 feet. Aparently they were a little surprised, as their test grid had exclamation points behind the 505 results. I have not intentionally tested for maximum distance, but I have been able to use the remote control feature of MD Titler (Ellams Software) to run several different MiniDisc decks at more than forty feet (my former IIIc worked for about 20 to 25 feet). I can't imagine Palm would water down the IR in the M515. Of course, I can't imagine why they would not even mention having the strongest IR in the business either...

WOW!

I.M. Anonymous @ 2/28/2002 9:12:16 AM #
With the arrival of m515 and m130, a buddy of mine and I are going to be one of the first one in line to get these.
Man, it's great to be alive!

@ 7/15/2005 #

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