MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Handspring Announces Treo 90

After weeks of rumors and speculation, Handspring has just officially announced the Treo 90, a new mid-range color handheld. Despite being part of the Treo line, the 90 isn't a smartphone. It also isn't a Visor, as it lacks the signature Springboard slot. Instead, the Treo 90 is the first Handspring model to have an SD slot. In another first for the company, this is the first Handspring model to use Palm OS 4.0. It also has a built-in keyboard and 16 MB of RAM.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (245 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Comments Closed Comments Closed
This article is no longer accepting new comments.

Down

Can't buy it

terrysalmi @ 5/27/2002 10:05:29 PM #
The Buy-it Now link for the Treo 90 is broken. You cannot get past the 'select cable' page. I am assuming this is because this is where you normally try to select a service provider, which is not needed for the 90.

BTW, I don't like the plastic case, but w/ these features, it should blow the m130 out of the water. Welcome back to the Palm OS community, Handspring!

RE: Can't buy it
crustyedgeofinnovation @ 5/27/2002 11:41:07 PM #
with what feature?

RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 11:47:20 AM #
"it should blow the m130 out of the water. "

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're not really that stupid.

RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:12:16 PM #
are you really that stupid to believe it WONT blow the m130 out of the water? have you taken a look at that sh*tty screen on the m130? the 8mb of internal ram? its size? the keyboard on the treo's are second to none because of their integrated enhancements to the palm OS....i am with the above poster...this will blow the m130 away.
RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:16:57 PM #
Right, great features like a crippled SD slot (we'll fix it later), ability to display less colors (don't worry about it, 12 is practically the same number as 16), complete lack of grafitti (you'll like the keyboard, even tho research says the 180g outsells the 180), no flash memory (consumers don't need flash memory right?), lacking a jog dial where there clearly should be one (consumers don't deserve a jog dial)...sounds like real winner...
RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:22:47 PM #
Sarcasm aside, this half-assed device is still priced more than the m130, and "Treo" has little to no brand recognition to support it. That's what consumers will see when comparing the two.
vs. m130
Palm_Otaku @ 5/28/2002 12:38:13 PM #
Side by side I think it compares quite favorably to the m130 (based on specs, as I haven't seen one yet).
One of the important things is that this device gives Joe or Jane Consumer the option of a PalmOS device with keyboard input.
It's very likely that there are quite a number of potential consumers that would have picked up a PDA by now except that they were turned off by "having to learn Graffiti" (I had similar thoughts when I first played with a pilot back in '96 -- of course I know *way* better now :-))
So perhaps the Treo 90 fills an important niche, offering yet another variation on our beloved PalmOS devices and *broadening* the market appeal....!

is the flip cover protecting the screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:04:41 PM #
i cant tell if the flipcover has a glass cover or not. but i think it would be stupid to leave the screen unprotected.
RE: Can't buy it
terrysalmi @ 5/28/2002 1:20:38 PM #
If it is like the other Treos, it has a built-in screen protector at that part of the lid.

RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:23:47 PM #
can the flop cover turn the power on like Treo 180's ?
RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 3:17:29 PM #
This will attrack more people on the palmpilot. coz some gets turned off when they see some scriptures of graffiti shown to them that they have to memorize each strokes. I know graffiti very well but im still considering of buying palms minikeyboard for the m505.
RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:35:26 PM #
we'll see how well this device does shortly...its gonna be a winner. watch m130 sales drop (drop if there were still people buying that trash...what an awful screen--whats the point of it being 16 bit if arent able to tell its a 16 bit screen?)

are some of you really that stupid to think that someone new to palm is gonna turn up buying a COLOR pda with a built in keyboard and more storage room? plus im sure the screen will look better, even though it displays less colors...that m130 screen makes me wanna puke, because of the ghosting effect. not to mention the treo is much smaller, much thinner, much lighter than that m130.

whats this talk about a jog dial? does the m130 have a jog dial? NO! so you cant use that as an agrument to buy the M130 over the T90. plus, the treo makes up for the lack of a jog dial in that you can scroll through your apps with the scroll button and select them with the spacebar. how simple is that?

side by side, the t90 is better than the m130, hands down. the only reason someone shouldnt buy the t90 is if you absolutely hate built in keyboards and require the use of grafitti.

RE: Can't buy it
terrysalmi @ 5/28/2002 10:39:21 PM #
BTW, the up/down buttons on the 90 have been revamped, so along with the spacebar, they can perform all functions of a jogdial.

RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 11:13:46 PM #
the keyboard is excellent in that it is intergrated into the OS....its not like add on keyboards
RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 11:55:17 PM #
ill buy it if i have accessories to use it with.
RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 3:32:05 PM #
According to Handspring's FAQ for the Treo 90:

...with the digitized screen, users can take advantage of third-party applications like RecoEcho 1.1, for example, that allow you to use on-screen Graffiti in addition to the keyboard.

I'm considering getting one... if they enable SD I/O!

Accessories... as in what?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 12:37:57 PM #
Do you mean accessories as in pen/styli (which I, for one, hope we'll see soon, i.e. a Pentopia Chameleon) or SD add-ons (if/when SD I/O is enabled)?
RE: Can't buy it
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 6:52:03 PM #
It is always refreshing to read comments like "your stupid!" and "half assed device". Clearly the Treo 90 will appeal to consumers, although it remains to be seen whether it will out sell the M130. Will the lack of graffiti be detremental, will the 12 bit color bother consumer, will the lack of flash memory matter or will the plastic case be a problem? Who really knows. To some people these are issues and they probably won't but it. To others these concerns are trivial. Perhaps the best thing to do is wait and see what happens.

It should be noted that the lack of flash memory is a complete non-issue. Even if the Treo 90 had flash memory it still would not be possible to upgrade to OS 5 as it is written for ARM processors. I wish that HS would release a graffiti model because I would buy one in minute. However, in order to expand the consumer base and provide real alternatives, this is a necessary move. To say that the Treo 180g out sells the 180 and therefore the 90 should have graffiti is very short sighted. The Treo line has not been out long enough to have achieved any real market penetration. To date the majority of people buying the Treo have been Palm users switching from other products. Since they already know graffiti they flock to the 180g. As soon as newbie consumers begin buying this product there is every reason to believe that the key board version will be popular. It is difficult to see consumers new to the Palm world being interested in learning graffiti when a keyboard version is available.

In the end anyone interested in furthering the Palm platform should hope that Handspring succeeds. In my opinion what HS, Sony and Hand Era are doing is great. They provide viable alternatives to Palm prodeucts while furthering the Palm platform. I have no desire to live in a Pocket PC world and applaud HS for these innovative new products. One final thing, if you can't say anything positive or productive, please don't post at all!

Finally... what took them so long?!?

mentalsrule @ 5/27/2002 10:06:21 PM #
I am so glad that handspring has finally joined the market again. its perfect, cheaper then the T615 with a keyboard and color screen. Although i wish it were 16bit color and not 12 but hey whatever gets the party started... also i think its odd they added an SD slot but a smart move at that. sadly i just bought a Vx and friday an NR70... otherwise due to my love of handspring i would have bought this. cant wait to try it out at best buy though thats for sure.

---------------------
With everything i learn each day... i have a talent to compress it all into one word..... huh? [:)]
www.handecomputing.com
RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 10:22:51 PM #
I agree that this is a good thing for Handspring and that it may in fact save them (I really think the Treo Phones are going down with that price) but I'm curious as to a few things:

First, the color, why 12bit color? The only reason I mention it is that both its competitors (Palm and Sony) are 16bit color which simply doesn't look good for Handspring.

Second, why did they take the jog dial off the Treo 90? Is a jogdial really that expensive to manufacture?

Third, why not name it Visor? Visor has more name recognition than Treo and plus Treo stands for the three functions that the Treo can accomplish and since the Treo 90 isn't a phone...

RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:18:11 PM #
Perfect? Without Grafiti? Ick. Thumboard keyboards are a right royal pain in the rump. Also, having tried WordSmith, I wouldn't say that it makes up for not having Grafiti.

I'll wait for OS5.0 devices before this thing.

RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:40:43 PM #
This 90 could be the right one for the mass. Let me tell you a fact. I bought 2 refurbrish Visor Deluxe as an award to 2 of my top real estate agents. My purpose is to have them use the program Loan Realtor. They end up giving them up to their kids, for Palm OS is still a pain to learn, though they both have degree in PhD! What can you say?
RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
crustyedgeofinnovation @ 5/27/2002 11:50:35 PM #
I say "The Institute" shouldn't have let them out of their padded cells. They probably use their PDA as a chew toy while they listen to old German Waltz's in the attic.

RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
drw @ 5/27/2002 11:52:24 PM #
I'd say fire the PhD's and hire their kids if they can't figure out a device so simple to learn.

David in Pflugerville, TX
RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
Kesh @ 5/28/2002 12:27:59 AM #
Most of the professors at the college I just attended had no idea how to program their VCRs. Seems to be a typical lack of interest in actually learning the technology they use.

Which was annoying, since I worked the tech support department there. "Why doesn't my computer work? What do you mean 'power button'"? Ugh.

RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
mikeliu @ 5/28/2002 1:03:44 AM #
Heh, that's right all you PDA geeks, instead of looking at the fact that Palm OS PDA's are having trouble adapting to people who are clearly intelligent, we should blame the people for not adapting to the PDA's!!

Questions and miscellaneous thoughts...
Palm_Otaku @ 5/28/2002 2:47:50 AM #
Hmm, this actually does look like a very nice device (though if it was offered, I'd probably opt for a Graffiti version instead!)

After pouring over Handspring's updated site, I'm left wondering about the following:

1) is the keyboard backlit like the 270 or not? (I assume not - no mention of it)

2) vibrating alert? Again no mention.

3) speaker or crappy little piezo? Again no mention.

Has anyone had some hands-on time with this baby?? :-)

If the answer to the above 3 are all no, that's too bad. Likewise, the lack of the Rocker Switch and the (for now) non-support of SDIO -- it would be nice to have the option of using the Bluetooth card. I like the overall design, particularly the see-through flip-lid (though I wonder how prone the hard keys will be to accidental presses in the pocket...)

My biggest question: why didn't they call this the Duo or Uno or something? It's not really a Treo (PDA + phone + messenger) as another poster noted. Confusing...

In all, it's pretty strong competition for the m130 for "entry-level color" segment of the market - I have a feeling this device should do very well! Go Handspring! :-)Of course, for an extra C-note buyers can get an m515, T615C or an NR70. Well, it sure is interesting to watch the evolution of the Palm (Family) Tree!

PS Ed, you note at the beginning it's running OS 4.0 (though later you correctly state 4.1) - might want to fix that!


RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:40:25 AM #
Gaving three or four letters next to your name does not make a person intelligent.

Intelligence makes a person intelligent.

RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
BiffK @ 5/28/2002 12:06:53 PM #
How exactly would an intelligent person "Gaving three or four letters next to their name?"
J/K

-Biff K
RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:34:30 PM #
3 or 4 letters: you know like Ph.D (aka Piled Higher 'n Deeper).
RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:08:41 PM #
"Gaving"?!?!? Dude while youre too busy tripping over urself defining intelligence...you might want to check yourself first!

Write something, look at it, check it again then send!
Got it! :)

RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
kady @ 5/28/2002 1:32:52 PM #
"Third, why not name it Visor? Visor has more name recognition than Treo and plus Treo stands for the three functions that the Treo can accomplish and since the Treo 90 isn't a phone..."

Um, is it possible that they are calling it a treo because of the form factor?

RE: Finally... what took them so long?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 5:36:14 PM #
But of course we should excuse the "urself", right? Follow your own advice and don't let sloth dictate your spelling.
Who is this "Sloth" and why does he care about his spelling?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 8:26:15 PM #
x

Question regarding the display..

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 10:22:05 PM #
Quote: "The screen is CSTN, or Color Super-Twist Nematic. Though a passive matrix type of screen, the newest CSTN displays have good refresh rates, wide viewing angles, and bright color that compares well with TFT displays. And they cost about half what TFT screens do."

Is this the same type of display used on the Clie T615C?

RE: Question regarding the display..
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:03:05 PM #
No, all other T615c uses TFT active matrix.
I am skeptical about this description "the newest CSTN displays have good refresh rates, wide viewing angles, and bright color that compares well with TFT displays". I would reserve my judgement until it comes out.

Passive display used to have narrow viewing angle, diluted colors, and looks significantly inferior when placed next to a TFT display. It was previously used for budget laptop, but it has now been completely replaced by TFT since TFT's price has come down.

RE: Question regarding the display..
cykalan @ 5/28/2002 1:55:33 AM #
The T615 is not active matrix TFT, Palm IIIc and Visor Prism are.

The screen used in the T615 and NR70 series is a trans-reflective (i.e. partial reflective and partial translucent) TFT screen with backlight. That's a totally different technology to active matrix TFTs. Trans-reflective TFT w/ backlights and fully-reflective TFT w/ frontlights are completely viewable under sunlight, while active matrices can't.

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

no bluetooth support

dd61999 @ 5/27/2002 10:22:59 PM #
WOW this device is great, even though it doesnt have os 5 i would still consider buying this but the major setback is that the sd slot does not support bluetooth, even though rumor has it that an update in the future, you would probably wait a million years in the same way everyone is waiting for gprs update for the treo communicator

RE: no bluetooth support
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:34:19 AM #
That are my words. SD card with no Bluetooth support????? With devices like this Handspring won't survive imho. I don't hope it. "Come on Hand you can do it".

ciao

RE: no bluetooth support
Palm_Otaku @ 5/28/2002 12:47:41 PM #
Aw c'mon -- Bluetooth is still a very leading edge technology, and anyone buying Bluetooth will probably also be opting for a top-end device. Don't forget, Palm's Bt SDIO card is almost half the price of the Treo 90 (US$129).
Hopefully we'll be seeing integrated Bt becoming common in the second half of the year (integrated chips are now about $5 in volume!)

SDIO support: Palm/PPC
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 5:44:02 AM #
SDIO support:

When will OS support appear? Palm aficionados can expect to see SDIO support in devices based on Palm OS 5 by fall. Pocket PC support could take longer: Since Pocket PC 2002 just debuted late last year, no one expects Microsoft to act swiftly. In the meantime, at least one company, BSquare, is offering a program for PocketPC vendors who want to support SD and SDIO cards in handhelds planned for release by the 2002 holiday season.


CSR, Broadcom and TI offer Bluetooth chips below $5
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 5:45:50 AM #
May 28 -- Texas Instruments has received Frost & Sullivan Pricing Strategy Award. This Award recognises the company's efforts to drive down price of Bluetooth Chipsets: "We are very proud to have been recognised with this prestigious award," said Ari Rauch, general manager TI Short Distance Wireless. "Being able to offer leading Bluetooth solutions well below the $5 mark has been one of the main advantages we have offered customers to date, coupled with our wireless semiconductor expertise, and we intend to drive prices down still further in the near future with technological innovation."

Broadcom can produce chips for less than $5, as long as they are ordered in large numbers.


Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 10:34:04 PM #
This is quite good for beginners but not good enough for advanced Palm User.

Reasons:
No Graffiti support
160 x 160 res instead of 320 x 320
33 Mhz instead of 66 Mhz (Sony Clie NR70V)
Not upgradeable to Palm OS 5.0 which is coming in 3 months time.


RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 10:43:31 PM #
by that same token NO model released in the not-to-distant future (or past) is good for advanced users since none of them are upgradable! Why buy the sony nr70/v if you'll just be upgrading with os 5?
I second that...
C @ 5/27/2002 10:43:59 PM #
No 16 bit support? Not for me...

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 10:53:51 PM #
**WHY NO JOG DIAL?**

Who *CARES* if you can see the screen through the flip cover, if you can't manipulate your calendar or address book??

Stupid, stupid, stupid.....

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
fkclo @ 5/27/2002 11:00:00 PM #
Would someone please define "Advanced Palm User" ?

Personally, I don't think the ability/willingness to shell out a few more bucks for a hi-res or twisting device will all of a sudden make one an advanced user. We need a more sophisticated definition.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:07:49 PM #
Well, I've used palm organizers since the original model, so I think I can qualify as "advanced"

1) Goodbye to Graffiti...and good riddance.
2) Yeah hi res would be nice, but the actual enchancement to the applications I use the palm for would be minimal.
3) Ditto for the processor speed. Response time is not an issue for me. Are you solving differential equations with your palm?
4) Nothing running a dragonball processor is 5.0 compatible. So forget upgrades.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:59:56 PM #
I am the author of the first posting. You told you that Sony Clie NR70V user is advanced Palm User. To be APU, you must upgraded once your ROM OS atleast one, knows about Hacks and use it, knows how to write in grafitti for sure. Still using old Palm until it dies and then buy a new one. You could be 3 years using your Palm but still you could be novice palm user.
RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:47:29 AM #
What a hunk of junk. HandSpring is HISTORY!!
RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
rigter @ 5/28/2002 5:17:41 AM #
Hmmm...
Could someone please define "advanced user" for me?

Personally, I don't think that anyone with a check book large enough to buy the latest gizmo every time one is released qualifies.

On the other hand, most of the people who visit these boards belong to a small minority of users with a more than average interest in their pda's.
Maybe all of us here should be considered power users. It makes sense to me anyway.

I find the idea that there is some "advanced palm user", with a certain fixed set of demands and requirements and a similar fixed area of interest - far superior to the "regular palm user" of course - simple minded at best.

Why is it that so many people here cannot see things beyond their own warped perspective? (And why are so many of them anonymous?)
Why is it that every second post here can be replaced with: "this thing sucks because I don't need/want it"

Handheld sales are going down for Handspring. One of the reasons for that is that the Treo's are kept out of this figure because they're not considered proper pda's but hybrid phones.

Why is every new product on the market "judged" as if it were targeted at the top segment in that market?
This new device is clearly targeted at the same market as the m130. To compare it with Sony's latest releases isn't simple minded anymore, it shows to me that this person is probably an adolescent male with a personality problem who still thinks that the prime meridian of this planet separates the two halves of his brain.

Commercially, this release makes sense to me. Whether it will work remains to be seen.
By the time the new OS5 machines hit the market, this handheld represents the lower end of the market. By that time Handspring will be ready to lower the price somewhat. Functionally there will be little difference between the new machines and this one because that is not what OS5 is about. This baby could be a strong seller at the end of the year. And Handspring even has time to release a possible follow up on this Treo, based on feedback from its customers, for the holiday season at the end of the year.

It's not my next pda but I think Handspring has answered the m130.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
benw @ 5/28/2002 7:15:52 AM #
Calling someone an advanced user because he or she has upgraded a ROM or runs at a certain CPU speed is ridiculous...it's like saying that someone who knows how to change spark plugs is an good driver. Just doesn't follow.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
Altema @ 5/28/2002 9:54:37 AM #
"...not good enough for advanced Palm User.

Reasons:
No Graffiti support
160 x 160 res instead of 320 x 320
33 Mhz instead of 66 Mhz (Sony Clie NR70V)
Not upgradeable to Palm OS 5.0 which is coming in 3 months time."

Graffiti or thumboard is a preference, not an indication of skill.

Screen resolution also has nothing to do with skill, there are advanced users with Palm IIIx's, and novices with NR70V's. The opposite is also true.

Speed? If you do not have a McLaren F1 which can hit 236 Mph, then you do no know how to drive a car. Right?Again, hardware and skill are separate issues. The hardware can be a benefit, but not a requirement to being an advanced user.

The list of products you describe is a very short one, as you have ruled out every device now available.


RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:10:28 PM #
according to this genius, only nr70/v users are advanced palm users....
RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:41:45 PM #
So, presumably this guy (original poster) thinks that HE is an 'advanced Palm OS user', yet he critisizes the Treo 90 because it is not upgradeable to OS 5. If he was an 'advanced user' he would know what most people who have been to PIC even twice in the last 3 months already know - no current devices can be upgraded to OS 5.
RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:00:48 PM #
Original poster thinks he is an advance user when he posts such a childish comment without first consulting his books. Ha! OS 5 will not work on ANY current PalmOS PDAs - and that includes his NR70/V which according to his OS5 theory, he should be surprise that his NR70 is already outdated and consigned to the rubbish bin for begginer users. Moron
RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:16:21 PM #
On the question of OS upgrades, doesn't everyone remember Jeff Hawkins hinting that Handspring was working on their own OS? Even if PalmOS 5.x isn't compatible with this processor, that doesn't mean for certain that OS upgrades are useless.
RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:34:09 PM #
I am so luck to be qualified as an APU. Finally I recv. my NR70V this Friday. Before that I own a Treo 180, T615, N700, m505, m515, m500, m130, Prsim, Platinum, Visor Delux, Palm Vx, Palm V, Palm IIIc, pilot (Palm Computing) , Pilot Professional (US Robotics), Palm III (3Com)...

Sorry I have to confess that I am a Palm program developer.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 5:41:57 PM #
Okay..... your company would be........ Oh wait, I know! It's that happy-go-lucky Iambic guy! Hey, welcome to the party!
RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 10:32:57 PM #
A lot of folks offended in terms "Advanced Palm User" but the problem with these folks is, they may fall short of very minimal criteria of the APU which I just beat up a few seconds to define APU for fun. And that is the reason why they hated this posting. Why don't you offer you own definition of APU as other do. Don't just get a flame thrower and start flaming.

I posted the first posting and I don't owned NR70V. I waiting for Dragonball MX1 from Sony. I owned a broken Palm IIIx and working Palm m505.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
rigter @ 5/29/2002 4:50:17 AM #
Dear mr Anonymous,

You seem to be a very active poster around here. More than a handful in this thread alone. My compliments for that.

The whole issue of who's an Advanced User and who isn't, is out of place here.
This Treo clearly isn't targeted at whatever an Advanced User might be. This thing is targeted at the m130 market. Notice I didn't say "regular user", "Joe Average", "simple morons", "Untermenschen" or any other qualification other than market segment.

Even if we could come up with a set of criteria to determine who's who, matching handhelds would be next to impossible.

Examples?
Sony clearly does not target their products at the business end of the market. They focus on entertainment and basic pim instead. Don't flame me, those are their own words. Based on that, a more biased person could state that these machines are nothing but expensive toys then. Certainly nothing for us *hot potato voice* Advanced Users.
HandEra targets their products at the business end with little or no concern for flashy graphics or games. Nobody will argue that the 330 is a powerful machine. Where do they go then?
What if you own a IIIc? Ah, must be a brainless moron then I suppose...

Stop worrying about yourself and the size of your pda (hello Freud).
This page is about the Treo 90.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 5:55:40 AM #
What a load of bollocks. Upgrade your ROM atleast once??? You do not need to use hacks to be an advance user, you moron! Someone people do not need hacks! Some poeple do not need echanced keyboards, DAs, overclocking utilities, password protections, keypad locks etc even if they KNOW about hacks! BTW, my old Pilot 5000 still works - so I need to use it till it dies only then I buy a new one...

you have given the most childish reasonings ever.

You are probably a 'novice' user since you do not even know that all current PalmOS PDAs can't be upgraded to OS5.

Like I said - moron!

>> RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:59:56 PM

>> I am the author of the first posting. You told you that Sony Clie NR70V user is advanced Palm User. To be APU, you must upgraded once your ROM OS atleast one, knows about Hacks and use it, knows how to write in grafitti for sure. Still using old Palm until it dies and then buy a new one. You could be 3 years using your Palm but still you could be novice palm user.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
benw @ 5/29/2002 8:42:56 AM #
Clearly there is no such thing as an "Advanced Palm User", since "Advanced" is a term relative to your use of the palm. If you can edit videos on your palm, and all I use the palm for is for tracking business contacts, does your skill mean anything to me? Probably not. If you know every graffiti hack in existence and I have no need to use them, is that advanced? I program the palm in C++. If you don't know the palm programming API, does that mean you're not an "advanced" user?

Since one man's "advanced" is another's "lame", why don't we just drop the pretentious phrase? Clearly the originator's intent was misguided, no matter how well intentioned.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 3:38:57 PM #
As posted above, Graffiti support is there--it's just the *Graffiti area* that's gone. According to Handspring, that's the same on the other [keyboarded] Treo models too.
RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 7:25:04 PM #
A lot of critisms, but still doesn't a good definition to offer. Again, I challenge you define it. I guess I am wrong, I should use an "Non-Entry Level User" as Treo 90 is entry level device. What does it mean to be entry level device user?

The developer who program in C++, use POL instead.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
benw @ 5/30/2002 6:43:23 AM #
Learn to read. What I'm saying is that categorizing palm users is useless. I'm not fighting over the definition of user categories. I'm saying that categorization is idiotic.

And, btw, when you have 30 years (yeah, that's three-oh) of programming experience like I do, then you can suggest to me what language to use to program. Otherwise, keep your condescending, ignorant suggestions to yourself.

RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 10:08:49 PM #
It seems you don't your Palm C++ programming. POL is not a language but it is a library (Palm Object Library) so C++ programmers who have no bloated C++ program. Probably, you have use Google first before you flare up. Here is the site (below) for the people who might be interested to program in C++.

http://www.aqpoint.com/pol/


RE: Not Good Enough for Advanced Palm User
benw @ 5/31/2002 2:20:50 PM #
Learn what the word "instead" means

Right on the mark

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:01:46 PM #
I was looking for a replacement for my Palm IIIc, and the treo 90 really hits the mark. I'm more concerned about increased memory capacity, expandability and portability than I am about hi res or a zillion colors, or even processor speed (I use it as an organizer and "information holder", not as an MP3 or video player. Besides, Chess Genius can already beat me at 33 Mhz, any more power would just humiliate me more!). Unless some hands-on experience turns up some usability problems, the treo 90 has more bang for the buck than anything else out there right now.
RE: Right on the mark
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:43:46 AM #
Go buy a M515!!!
RE: Right on the mark
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:57:49 AM #
this device is PERFECT!!!!!! (for me). I will buy this. for sure. I really want a color palm device to hold me over till os 5 (maybe os 6)...this fits my budget perfectly (im a student), and its kinda cool lookin...When do they hit stores so i could give em a test drive???

im scared of passive matrix display's though, even though this is an 'advanced' passive display...i really need to test this out...

RE: Right on the mark
terrysalmi @ 5/28/2002 1:30:24 PM #
Go buy an m515? Practically the same feature set for $100 more? And you get a SUDS issue? Great buy!



RE: Right on the mark
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:00:04 PM #
m515 does not have SUDS issues anymore.
RE: Right on the mark
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:15:32 PM #
Just like the "enhanced" cradles didn't have the SUDS issue right?
RE: Right on the mark
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 8:41:01 AM #
Isn't the Treo essentially the M130 with a different design and built in keyboard? I think it boils down to if you like the keyboard or not.
RE: Right on the mark
benw @ 5/29/2002 8:52:47 AM #
The treo 90 has double the memory of the 130 (16K) and is much lighter and thinner. And, of course, has the keyboard. I suspect palm will slightly drop the price of the 130, causing great agony and gnashing of teeth to those trying to decide between the two :-)

out with the old and in with the new

drw @ 5/27/2002 11:06:29 PM #
I like the treo 90. Don't care about 12bit vs 16bit color any more than I care about 16bit vs 32bit color on the desktop. Looks the same to me. Don't care that it doesn't do SDIO. This is just an interim device anyway. They will probably release a PalmOS v5 model in the same form factor before the year is out.

I played with that expensive sony that yall like to talk about. Guess what. None of the core apps: address book, datebook, todo list, memo pad appear to support 320x320. They should have hacked these core apps to support hirez+. I tried all over to get into hirez+, in the apps themselves, in the preferences, in the main menu, etc. And you get an annoying screen blanking when switching between hirez+ and legacy resolutions. I used to have to put up with that on my desktop when I wanted to output to TV, but no more since I upgraded to a decent matrox card.

One thing I'm interested about is has anyone tried putting that 66mhz to Afterburner? I have big databases which take time to resort/recalc. Would be nice to have those databases overclocked to run at 120mhz. :-) Yea,yea os5 will support 200mhz strongARM, but will the initial strongARM's be 200mhz? I think not. The more interim devices they can put out, the more $$$ they can squeeze from consumers. Also, my applications that take so long to resort/recalc won't be optimized for OS5 till probably Q1 2003. That's a long time to wait during which an overclocked 66mhz dragonball would be nice.

David in Pflugerville, TX

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:49:05 PM #
StrongArm is Intel brand. No Palm OS 5.0 will be running in StrongArm. Xscale is the new brand from Intel which will be running in Palm OS 5.0 or later. I hate seeing posting mentioning this battery draining chip i.e. StrongArm. I hope Palm User will get it right!

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:49:05 PM #
StrongArm is Intel brand. No Palm OS 5.0 will be running in StrongArm. Xscale is the new brand from Intel which will be running in Palm OS 5.0 or later. I hate seeing posting mentioning this battery draining chip i.e. StrongArm. I hope Palm User will get it right!

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 7:39:46 AM #
I have an NR70V and have no idea what you are talking about with trying to get built-in apps to run hi-res with it. I have used all the built-in apps, virtually all the add-ons that came with it and WordSmith, MyBible, BibleReader, Mapopolis, etc, and the only thing I find that won't run in beautiful 320 by 320 is BugMeMessenger.

Maybe you are talking about dropping the soft graffitti area? That will come soon enough. YiShow is there for a launcher. WordSmith shipped on version that supported the extra screen space and will work out the bugs to ship a final version. DateBook and several others are close. It will be there by August or so.

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 9:54:35 AM #
Sure the built-in apps display using all 320x320 pixels, but using 4 pixels per pixel one might say. They are not hi-res apps.
RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:47:44 PM #
>>>Sure the built-in apps display using all 320x320 pixels, but using 4 pixels per pixel one might say. They are not hi-res apps.


HUH???? These are not graphics apps. You turn on 'hi-res assist' and these apps now get smooth, hi-res fonts - NOT '4 pixels per pixel'. Also smooths out ALL UI controls (buttons, chkbox control,etc) - so what the hell are these idiots talking about. The original poster as well as the guy i just quoted, don't know what they are talking about. If you are going to post here - have an inkling about what you are talking about - dont come on here and make up shi*t theories about real, existing hardware/software - we dont need to speculate - WE ALREADY KNOW. honestly people.

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:58:25 PM #
only hi-res fonts, but not hi-res graphics. Sony's hi-res API 'cheats' by doubling the pixels on each side that's all. Creating a hi-res program that fully takes advantage of the API will only slow the program down (Qubix 320x320 version)
RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:08:43 PM #
>>>only hi-res fonts, but not hi-res graphics. Sony's hi-res API 'cheats' by doubling the pixels on each side that's all. Creating a hi-res program that fully takes advantage of the API will only slow the program down (Qubix 320x320 version)

You keep diggin yourself deeper you guys:

>> "only hi-res fonts, but not hi-res graphics."

There are no (except a couple of icons) graphics in the built in apps (and we aere talking about built in apps in this thread) - just fonts and UI controls, and since Sony does indeed allow these to work in hi-res - you guys are wrong. Period.

Second, as for the comment "Creating a hi-res program that fully takes advantage of the API will only slow the program down (Qubix 320x320 version)" - Sony has a special processor just for graphics - so its NOT a situation of '4 x pixels = 4 x slower'. Besides, with the new NR70 - the only 66mhz Palm device - it is faster in any resolution. And what does Qubix habe to do with the built in apps? Remember that the whole argument that initiated this thread was that sony didnt have hi-res for built in apps - which i successfuly refuted, causing you to change arguments. lame.

Again - know what yr talking about before you spew garbage on a msg board. BTW - i am usually putting down lame Sony fanatics on this site - but now you guys are making me sound like one:)

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:55:17 PM #
> Again - know what yr talking about before you spew garbage on a msg board.

Well, there's actually at least two people disagreeing with you above. Having used all the Sony hi-res devices including the NR70, absolutlely none of the standard built-in apps support the hi-res screen. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Just because the device scales the apps up to 320x320 and makes it look OK does not make them hi-res apps.

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:19:16 PM #
>>>Having used all the Sony hi-res devices including the NR70, absolutlely none of the standard built-in apps support the hi-res screen. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Just because the device scales the apps up to 320x320 and makes it look OK does not make them hi-res apps.

Again - Huh???? Whether or not something uses the hi-res API (which is about graphics (ei: 'Win' API calls vs 'HRWin' calls) has nothing to do with whether the app makes use of hi-res (320x320). Built in palm apps allow hi-res fonts and UI controls, ALL drawn using 320 x 320. The hi-res assist feature allows none HR API apps to take advantage of hi-res (thus its f**king name - 'hi-res assist'). The only gain that could possibly be made by using the hi-res API to re-write some of the built in app code would be to provide hi-res versions of the few custom icons that exist in the built in apps. So, since hi-res is defined as 320 x 320, and since hi-res fonts and hi-res UI controls DEFINITELY do utilize 320 x 320 - then gues what???? Hi-res is supported for built in Palm apps!! If what your inarticulate little mind actually meant when you said 'hi-res' was really 'hi-res+' (or virtual graffiti) then, no Sony has not re-written the apps to take advantage of the extra screen space - BUT nobody in this thread has ever suggested it did. So your statment:

>>absolutlely none of the standard built-in apps support the hi-res screen.

...is completely false. Ask everyone on this site: 320x480 = hi-res AND virtual graffiti = hi-res+


RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:32:32 PM #
hmm - just re-read what i wrote. let me make this a little bit clearer:

320x480 = (hi-res + virtual graffiti) = hi-res+

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:32:32 PM #
>>absolutlely none of the standard built-in apps support the hi-res screen.

Let me go further - if you mean by 'support' that they have explicitly re-written the application to make use of hi-res, then no, they don't 'support' hi-res - BECAUSE THEY DONT NEED TO. These apps are all text and UI controls - the 'support' comes from hi-res assist.

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 6:13:01 PM #
> they don't 'support' hi-res - BECAUSE THEY DONT NEED TO.

Just because the apps are made to look pretty with some hacks doesn't make them hi-res apps. Oh boy, it looks nicer, what is the point to that? Give it up already.

RE: out with the old and in with the new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 6:25:28 PM #
"Just because the apps are made to look pretty with some hacks doesn't make them hi-res apps. Oh boy, it looks nicer, what is the point to that? Give it up already."

Ummm.... that's what hi-res does. Makes the apps look nicer. And that is the point.

RE: out with the old and in with the new
drw @ 5/28/2002 9:11:32 PM #
I'm the original poster and didn't mean to start an argument. I've only toyed with the device at circuit city and best buy. Next time I go I'll experiment with the hirez assist to see what the built in apps look like at 320x320.



David in Pflugerville, TX

Hi-Res cease-and-assist?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 11:22:02 AM #
If you think the only purpose of "High-resolution" screens is to make things look pretty, take a look at a Handera330 sometime - They include new, smaller font sizes that let you put more information on the screen. And the installed apps allow you to use the whole screen when the graffiti area is stowed away.

For all the money one pays for a Sony, they sure don't put much work into the thing beyond the hardware, do they? It's like buying a new porsche and finding out you have to install your own interior.

Where is the stylus?

jimski @ 5/27/2002 11:37:44 PM #
I couldn't help but notice that there was no mention of a stylus in this and the other new Treo (180). I understand that they both have keyboards (and no graffiti areas), but don't you need a stylus for tapping out menus, checkboxes, or applications.

Is the plan to use the jog wheel along with keyboard shortcuts to navigate or is there a stylus hidden somewhere?

RE: Where is the stylus?
crustyedgeofinnovation @ 5/27/2002 11:57:06 PM #
Who needs a stylus, just use your nose to peck your info into the device.

RE: Where is the stylus?
Kesh @ 5/28/2002 12:04:07 AM #
Yes, it does come with a stylus. Check out the main Handspring web site, and click on the picture of the Treo 90. It has a nice metal stylus that comes with it.

Personally, for simple stuff I just use my fingernail (the screen is protected by WriteRights). When I need to input data or play a game, then I pull out the stylus, but for clearing the 'OK' dialog when an alarm pops up, your fingernail will do for a quick tap.

RE: Where is the stylus?
jimski @ 5/28/2002 12:05:49 AM #
Now, why didn't I think of that!

RE: Where is the stylus?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:11:38 AM #
No stylus since there is no graffiti. I could not imagine an advanced palm user buying this one.
RE: Where is the stylus?
crustyedgeofinnovation @ 5/28/2002 12:17:10 AM #
I was just joking by the way. I hope you all knew that. Of course there is a stylus.

RE: Where is the stylus?
Kesh @ 5/28/2002 12:17:20 AM #
>No stylus since there is no graffiti.

There _is_ a stylus included.

>I could not imagine an advanced palm user buying this one.

I keep hearing this, and I don't know why. I consider myself an advanced user, and I'd snap this up in a heartbeat. Graffiti use does not equal 'advanced' use. This coming from a guy who has written college essays in Graffiti, who wished he had a keyboard on his organizer instead.

RE: Where is the stylus?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 3:24:22 AM #
kesh, you've written college papers with grafitti??? dude, you ROCK!

i like the keyboard...its perfect for editing school papers..i still dont see myself writing a paper on my palm pilot though...it would take me DAYS!

RE: Where is the stylus?
fkclo @ 5/28/2002 7:49:34 AM #
The Treo keyboard is, in my opinion, best of its kind. I am not talking about the hardware, but how it integrates with the OS modified by Handspring. Although I do not use a keyboard version of the Treo, my friends who have chosen the keyboard version did amused me by how much they can do with the keyboard. Compared to those add-ons, the Treo keyboard is just miles ahead in terms of both usability and integration. You've got to try it to believe it, though I remain for the time being a graffiti fan.



RE: Where is the stylus?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 11:13:26 AM #
The Treo's keyboard feels and operates MUCH more effectively than other attachments that are one and a half it's size. It's perfect.
RE: Where is the stylus?
jimski @ 5/28/2002 1:17:21 PM #
Now that I am using an NR70V (best of both worlds - keyboard and graffiti) I still find myself reaching for the stylus most of the time. This is part habit, but mostly because I generally need to tap at least one or two specific areas of the screen to get to where I need to go.

I do use my rather large (short nail) finger to tap things like appointment reminders, but when trying to select a specific todo or appointment, I will pull out the stylus, tap to where I need to go and usually write (in graffitt) the few words I need to enter. This is sure better than holding the stylus in the palm of your hand while trying to type with your thumbs on the keyboard.

I agree that the keyboard is better for writing longer text (e-mails and memos), but I would be hard pressed to give up the convenience of graffiti. A virtual pop-up graffiti area would be better than nothing at all.

Still waiting for my Bluetooth enabled, "pen sized" cell phone (no graffiti-no keyboard) to integrate with my full featured PDA. Meanwhile, I will keep lugging my Kyocera 6035 around.

RE: Where is the stylus?
Kesh @ 5/28/2002 5:16:07 PM #
>kesh, you've written college papers with grafitti??? dude, you ROCK!

Heh. yes, I have. Only 1 or 2 page essays, not full research papers, but they are papers. :)

>i like the keyboard...its perfect for editing school papers..i still dont see myself writing a paper on my palm pilot though...it would take me DAYS!

True, for major papers you would want to use a laptop or desktop. I found my organizer perfect for taking down notes in the library though, and organizing my work schedule to get the papers done.

RE: Where is the stylus?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 2:42:15 AM #
There is stylus but you have to put it in your pocket. CNet has video clip for Treos but stylus was not use in Treo 90 only in Treo 270. I could not still believe that Treo 90 has stylus silo in the device. Maybe stylus in free as add-on as you can see it in the ads in handspring -standing beside the device.
RE: Where is the stylus?
Kesh @ 5/29/2002 11:25:11 PM #
If you download the Treo 90 datasheet, you'll see a picture on the last page of the back of the unit. There, you can clearly see the stylus silo. I'm also sure I saw a picture on the website somewhere of the top of the unit, and that definitely had the silo labeled.

Why did Handspring assume

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/27/2002 11:49:52 PM #
no one uses Grafatti anymore and release a keyboard-only entry device? At least, they should have given the option to the buyer.
They DID Give The Buyer An Option...
SuccessWizard @ 5/27/2002 11:59:10 PM #
The option is buying a Palm m515 -- graffiti, SDIO, stylus port and the whole works. I think they should have created a two piece package -- the 90 and an add-on to make it a 180 or 270 for phone. Plug it together and you got a communicator.

Mike Lohsl
Palm & ACT! Advisor

www.successwizard.com

[I]Proud user of a Palm i705 Mobile Office and Kyocera 6035 phone[/I]

RE: Why did Handspring assume
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:00:56 AM #
This is the reason why they are discounting the Treo 180 for $100 and Treo 180g without discount. Treo 180g outsells the Treo 180 in one country in Europe according to one Treo user. Handspring is wrong with their assumptions. They planned ahead. Most of Sony NR70V user still use might G for inputting. K is just a nice assesories it is there when you want it. I hope Handera would release a color with CF and SD cards on it with a slimmer case.
RE: Why did Handspring assume
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:25:54 AM #
Handspring already tried the "two piece package". It's called the VisorPhone. Needless to say, it wasn't a raging success and it probably wouldn't be if they tried it again.
RE: Why did Handspring assume
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 11:53:55 PM #
I guess the Treo 90 IS a two piece package: the other piece being the cell phone that you already have. Since they are offering connection cables to cell phones right of the bat, I think their intentions are pretty clear.

Ooooh!

Kesh @ 5/27/2002 11:54:42 PM #
This seems like the perfect pre-OS5 device for me. Nice enough color, built in keyboard, Wordsmith included, SD slot for my documents... I had sworn I wouldn't buy another handheld until OS 5, but this may change my mind!

The only drawbacks are the lack of SDIO and the loss of the jog-wheel. I hope HS does update the software for SDIO support, and I could live without the jog-wheel. I might just pick this up, and hand down my Visor Prism.

The odd thing to me is all the wireless apps reportedly included. I guess they expect to have you using a cell phone through the IR port, since there's no wireless option at all without SDIO.

RE: Ooooh!
Kesh @ 5/28/2002 12:22:54 AM #
Well, I answered one of my own questions, just by taking a look at the FAQ. Handy, they are. :)

Q. Why didn't you include a rocker switch like the rest of the Treo family?
 A. While the rocker switch is very effective for one-handed use with the Treo communicators, it is not a necessary addition for the Treo 90 organizer. Instead, we added the extra functionality to the up and down scroll buttons at the bottom of the device to enable such features as scrolling through the Launcher application by application, launching the selected application by pushing the space bar, and scrolling through your To Do list and checking off items with a push of the space bar.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y235129F

RE: Ooooh!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 9:58:39 AM #
Isn't the space bar covered by the flip cover?

Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work

popko @ 5/28/2002 1:05:50 AM #
Without the Grafatti area, hacks that need you do draw from point a to point b of the silk screen won't work any more.

RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:10:37 AM #
Keyboard lovers don't know about Hacks. Or should I say Regular Palm User.
RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
popko @ 5/28/2002 1:19:00 AM #
No no, I did do the orgional post to bash people that like keyboard better than Grafatti area. I was just wondering if there are work-arounds. If not, it's kinda bad that some of the best hacks on Palm can't be use with the Treos.

RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
Kesh @ 5/28/2002 1:21:10 AM #
Good lord, will you people please quit generalizing? Just because someone prefers a keyboard does not mean they are a 'worse' user than someone who prefers Graffiti. I've used hacks. Most of them aren't worth it. Some are, and I can see that if you *need* a certain hack that uses the silkscreen that this unit would not be for you.

But, generally slamming those of use who want a keyboard isn't going to get you far. There's an old saying: "You can attract more bees with honey than with vinegar." If you want to convince someone your way is right, you won't get far throwing insults.

RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
Kesh @ 5/28/2002 1:21:10 AM #
Just to clarify, that wasn't aimed at you popko. I really wish they'd disable the 'anonymous' account on here... that would at least cut down on the trolling, and we can argue with known names. :)

RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
popko @ 5/28/2002 1:01:23 PM #
"No no, I did do the orgional post to bash people that like keyboard better than Grafatti area."

Well, I can see how a typo can really change the meaning of things here. It should have really been "No no, I didn't do the orgional post to bash people that like keyboard better than Grafatti area."

RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 7:39:37 PM #
I never thought of that but your right. I love McPhling and it won't work on the 90. I was looking for something to replace my aging (and well worn) Prism. I would have a hard time switching over to a keyboard only device.

--Dave

RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 8:12:12 PM #
May I ask, what exactly is hack in Graffiti for example? I use Jot and can still do all the shortcut stoke or special character outside of Graffiti area. Although I can imagine Race Fever game will be impossible without Graffiti area, I am willing to trade this area for KB for I think that I can have both.
RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
popko @ 5/28/2002 8:44:52 PM #
"May I ask, what exactly is hack in Graffiti for example? I use Jot and can still do all the shortcut stoke or special character outside of Graffiti area."

Popup Note for example, requires one to draw between tow points on the Graffiti area inorder to be activated. So with out the Graffiti area, the hack just won't run.

RE: Without the Grafatti area, some hacks won't work
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 10:45:46 PM #
I wouldn't be surprised if Graffiti hacks simply get replaced by equivalent keyboard hacks ("hold down control-whatever to activate hack...")

Lightest device?

Fzara2000 @ 5/28/2002 1:09:07 AM #
Light device? THe m500 beats the lightness of this piece of junk

SONY ROCKS!
RE: Lightest device?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:31:23 AM #
According to the Palm site, the m500 weighs 4 oz. According to the Handspring site, the Treo 90 weighs 4 oz.
RE: Lightest device?
benw @ 5/28/2002 10:56:59 PM #
Treo 90 - 4.0 oz, 4.2 x 2.8 x .65 inches
Palm 515 - 4.9 oz, 4.65 x 3.1 x .5 inches
Sony T615C - 4.9 oz, 4.65 x 2.83 x .5 inches
Palm 130 - 5.4 oz, 4.8 x 3.1 x .9 inches
Sony NR70 - 7.0 oz, 5.5 x 2.875 x .685 inches

RE: Lightest device?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 8:29:56 AM #
The value & quality

Sony NR70 > Sony T615C > Palm 515 > Palm 130 > Treo 90

So..treo 90 is a junk and joke, nothing more.

RE: Lightest device?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 3:31:57 PM #
"Palm 130 > Treo 90 "

How to you figure?? Treo 90 has more memory, is smaller, and weighs less. Although it has 12 bit vs 16 bit screen of m130, early reviews say the screen is bot slightly larger and clearer then the m130. The m130 on the other hand, has true SD / SDIO, while the Treo's SD doesnt yet support SDIO (they may offer a software update). So its clear to me that both have advantages, and at this point - without you actually having seen or used one - comments such as:

"So..treo 90 is a junk and joke, nothing more."

...makes you NOTHING MORE then a boring, piss-ant troll.


RE: Lightest device?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 1:41:10 AM #
unlike the m500 this has color and a keyboard. If you want color and a keyboard your only other choice is the Sony NR series which is bulkier and more expensive. So there is a market for this device

Palm m130 appears to be only 12-bit color as well!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:57:08 AM #
I noticed some banding on my m130 when it was displaying 16-bit images that look fine on my Handspring Prism, so I created some images of RGB gradients. From examination of the gradients, it appears that each primary color can only display 16 unique values. (16 values means 4-bits per color, or 12-bit RGB). The hardware seems to be getting away with this by drawing the leftover colors as dithers between the 16 values.
I looked at the m130's box, and the description says "... color display with SUPPORT (my emphasis) for more than 65,000 colors". Well, the system clearly supports programs that run in 16-bit, but that doesn't mean that the screen can necessarily draw all the 65K colors. If I were Handspring, I'd point out that SUPPORTING 65K is not the same as DISPLAYING 65K, and that the color Treos can display just as many colors as the m130!
RE: Palm m130 appears to be only 12-bit color as well!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 7:50:59 AM #
Really? HP got a huge headache for pulling this sleight of advertising hand with the HP Jornada 548. In fact, they wound up having to refund a bunch of customers money.
Huge headache. Personally, I can see the difference between a 12 bit vs 16 bit display without much effort and I really require 16 bit. It is just cheap to go with 12 bit.

I will have to go back to the Circuit City and look again at that M130 before I tell anyone to buy one.

RE: Palm m130 appears to be only 12-bit color as well!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 5:44:04 PM #
You know, aside from photos, there's no games that actually put that many colors on the screen. In fact, let's just take an average normal res game. Even if every single pixel was a different color (That'd be a headache), you'd still have only 160 x 160= 25,600 different colors. 2 to the twelfth (to get the amount of colors the Treo 90 can display) is 4192 different colors at a time. So, if you really wanted to, sure you could outdo the screen, but most games use on a average about 50-100 colors on the screen at the same time, so it's hardly a drawback.

-Davy Fields

RE: Palm m130 appears to be only 12-bit color as well!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 6:11:51 PM #
I think you're confused as to the difference between the number of colors that can be displayed on the screen at a time (determined by the number of pixels or the screen palette size) and the total number of allowed colors (the number of distinct color values that the screen is capable of displaying).
While the screen is certainly too small to display every possible color, that's really not important. What's important is that graphics, especially photos, look clearer and sharper when they are drawn choosing their pixel values from a total palette of 65536 distinct colors as opposed to 4096. Follow this url to see the difference between displaying an image in 12-bit and 16-bit (this was also posted in another thread below):
http://www.geocities.com/an0nym0vs
RE: Palm m130 appears to be only 12-bit color as well!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 7:30:17 PM #
According to Palm's KnowledgeBase:

Features of the Palm™ m130 handheld display

The Palm™ m130 handheld has a 160x160 resolution, passive matrix, transflective, color display with backlight. It is capable of displaying 16 bit color (over 65,000 colors).

Too expensive.

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:42:54 AM #
It might sell a little better at $199-250, since it has passive screen and won't be able to do OS5.0.
RE: Too expensive.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:00:18 AM #
idiot...NO CURRENT PALM OS PDAs WILL BE ABLE TO UPGRADE TO OS5!!!!!!!!!!!! this is perfect for its price...built in flip lid w/ window, 16mb ram, os 4.1, and great software package.
RE: Too expensive.
rigter @ 5/28/2002 5:58:08 AM #
By the time OS5 machines hit the market Handspring will be able to lower the price.

Cheers,
Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

Yeccchhh

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:14:39 AM #
You would have to be an idiot to buy this piece of junk. Handsping willl be gone a year from now anyway so why bother?
RE: Yeccchhh
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:29:02 AM #
give some reasons? its under 300 bucks, its COLOR, and comes with great software. this is gonna be a hit. if the keyboard bothers you, DONT BUY IT!
RE: Yeccchhh
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 2:59:06 AM #
I.M.#1:
You have to realize that there are many people that want a color unit, but don't want to spend $500-600 on the latest and greatest while they wait for OS5/6.

I have a Sony T615C, and I'm pretty happy with it so and I'm going to keep it a while longer, but one of my co-workers wants to upgrade her 8mb monochrome to a color unit - she just doesn't want to spend more than $300. If she can deal with the switch from Graffiti to a thumb keyboard, she will snatch this up in a hurry.
- rana

RE: Yeccchhh
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 3:14:40 AM #
yeah...im happy with my t615, but if i still was using a black and white pda, i would definitly buy this...in a second! I dont think i would mind using the thumb board...i was reading on the handspring site that the thumb board has advanced features...you can use the scroll buttons to scroll through your apps, and press the spacebar to open the program....thats pretty cool! no need to whip out the stylus! expecially if you are playing a game which doesnt require the use of a stylus. this will definitly be a hit...i jus hope it has a decent screen...

Actual Screen Size

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 3:09:13 AM #
I know that m130 and Treos have smaller screen compare to regular Palm Devices. Anybody know the actual screen sizes of Treo and m130. I know that casing size is posted.
RE: Actual Screen Size
fkclo @ 5/28/2002 3:27:31 AM #
The Treo screen is an approximate 2" x 2" square.

RE: Actual Screen Size
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 10:38:14 AM #
I do not know the exact size of the screen. but I know that is is slightly bigger than the Treo screen. The screen goes right up to the Edge. Compare the width of the Treo 270's edge with that on the Treo 90.
RE: Actual Screen Size
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 12:57:17 AM #
I saw one review that said the m130 screen was 2 inches, and the treo 90 was 2.75. I'm assuming this must be a diagonal measurement, as my iiic is only 2.25 inches wide.
RE: Actual Screen Size
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 1:15:07 AM #
2.75 inch screen for Treos. The biggest screen ever. Bull****! My m505 is only 2.25 as well. Handspring people get your act together. Who review this one? Treos are small then might be smaller than m130. I played around with Treo 180, it is small for PDA and big for mobile phone.
RE: Actual Screen Size
fkclo @ 5/29/2002 5:53:19 AM #
2.75" should be diagonal reading of an approximate 2" x 2" screen on the Treo. ( or 1.94" x 1.94 " according to my calculator).

12-bits color is not enough

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 5:35:04 AM #
I have a IPAQ 3630(12-bits, 4096 colors), it's really unconformtable to view color images and video on it,
especially people's skins¡C

So, test Treo 90 by yourself before buying.

RE: 12-bits color is not enough
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:06:17 PM #
well...multimedia is not good on any palm...cept sony.

a "handspring" device?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 6:55:26 AM #
i'm a bit sad because these treos, and handspring in general, seems to have given up on two of the most important things that hawkins brought to the palm world--graffiti and springboard. i think the springboard slot never became quite as popular as they wanted, though, and the devices always seemed too expensive (for me at least). what goes around comes around i guess, so we're back to keyboards now instead of "fancy" handwriting recognition.
RE: a
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 7:15:17 AM #
Springboard has been dead for a while now... I have nothing against it I bought a Visor a couple years ago and was very impressed with its true plug-and-play (in fact, it was the best plug-and-play implementation I've seen).

But even then I thought Handspring had made a grave mistake by using such a large module design. While Palm had the slick PalmV, Handspring would be stuck with bulky devices (they tried to get around using an external adapter with the Visor Edge, but that's inconvenient).

So I only bought one Springboard because I knew within a year or so I'd want a smaller PDA.

What I don't understand is why didn't Handspring make a CF-compatible slot? They could've still implemented plug and play for their cards, and supported non-plug and play cards too (perhaps even having drivers for CF memory that made it plug and play). Springboard would've lasted a lot longer that way.

CF Compatable slot...
orb2069 @ 5/31/2002 11:38:18 AM #
> What I don't understand is why didn't Handspring make a CF-compatible slot?

Take a look at the support on the HE330 for the answer to that one:

Targus sells one of the most popular CF modems around, but they apparently won't acknowledge that Handera exsists in their advertising. Their ads hoot about how they're 'Windows compatable'.


Some models of Ethernet CF card work, some don't. Depends on the card's chipset. Try explaining this to a business user. HE had to reverse-engineer some of the cards in order to make them work, since several of the manuf's. were completely unresponsive.

(The conspiracy minded among us might speculate as to why these companies are willing to write their OWN drivers for a niche platform like WinCE, but refuse to provide technical data for Handera, perhaps even pointing to the anti-competitive practices of certain companies in the progress, but I digress...)

Trying to implement complete, glitch-free Plug-and-play is damn near impossible with legacy devices. The only way that MS managed to pull themselves out of this quagmire was to drag the industry along by their hair, and forcing them to replace old standards (ISA, Serial, monodirectional Parallel) with new, 'Intelligent' standards (PCI, USB, etc) that they've had a hand in shaping.

Handspring did The Right Thing, in making a clean hardware break - Remember when the autoconfiguration capability in Win95 was called 'Plug and Pray'?

I /am/ the eggman.

Very Impressive - Nice Job Handspring!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 7:06:36 AM #
Just when I thought Handspring was done, they release an exceptional unit. 4 oz, color screen, keyboard, and <$300 is a "mass-appeal" combination if I ever saw one. I personally won't buy it as I prefer graffiti to keyboard, and have been spoiled by 320x320. But I know many users with PalmVs/M50xs with external keyboards that are going to be drooling...

On a side note, it's about time someone hit the 4 oz mark (for a color PalmOS unit). Especially given that Toshiba has released a StrongARM based PPC that's only 5 oz.

give us what we want.

PIC mobile user @ 5/28/2002 7:45:25 AM #
if this model had built-in bluetooth, i would have bought it instead of the 270, because i need my sd-slot.
when will they learn?
for now, i will stay with what i have ß Handspring will pile up on unsold devices.

But Hey, that's just me.
RE: give us what we want.
terrysalmi @ 5/28/2002 10:42:12 PM #
Do you think the average joe at Best Buy even knows what Bluetooth is? Most people only see the accessories that are on the shelf at the store...and right now, this is only memory! We are a select few that decide to research our products, and learn about BT, etc...

Why should HS include SDIO for the 1-2% of the people that it will satisfy, for the ONE expansion option currently available!?

No SDIO support on Treo 90

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 8:41:14 AM #
Does anyone know if the lack of SDIO support mean that you can't use a Bluetooth SD card? Maybe the SDIO is a firmware upgrade? This is almost exactly what I'm looking for, dam them for no 320x320 16 bit screen, but that's really a luxury I guess.
RE: No SDIO support on Treo 90
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 8:55:33 AM #
Yeah, I like the T615 (although not sold here in Canada) I'd really like to see Sony come out with a T700 that had a 320x320 screen, OS 5, AV capabilities, 3-in-1 media card reader ( SD, Memory stick and MMC - I've seen these around), and the thumboard off the NR70, @ around 0.4-0.5" thin. I'd spend an extra $200 on that...
RE: No SDIO support on Treo 90
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 10:42:40 AM #
The unit can be upgraded to support SDIO. The hardware is already there. I am puzzled why Handspring didn't release the support to begin with. They seem to be rushing things a lot.
RE: No SDIO support on Treo 90
Palm_Otaku @ 5/28/2002 1:06:17 PM #
Heh, don't forget that there is exactly *1* SDIO card available at the moment (Palm's Bluetooth card) and for the vast majority of Treo 90 users, I'd guess that they wouldn't be considering that purchase anyways (especially at $129).

Although it's probably a rather low priority at the moment, I have faith that Handspring will release the SDIO patch - apparently there are a number of other SDIO peripherals coming to market this year.

RE: No SDIO support on Treo 90
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:56:49 PM #
According to the article on cnet.com, it already supports the Bluetooth card. Somebody must be wrong.
Go and check it out for yourself at www.cnet.com

RE: No SDIO support on Treo 90
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 9:40:57 PM #
the article which you have pointed to says ,"however, the slot does not support SD input/output devices such as the Palm SD Bluetooth card and the Margi Presenter-to-Go SD VGA adapter (for giving PowerPoint presentations)."

Sorry, I also wish that it supported that card but i agree with a previous poster that by year end most pda's will have bluetooth built in.

RE: No SDIO support on Treo 90
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 11:38:11 AM #
So the question is, if this unit can be upgraded ( at a later date) to accept a Bluetooth SD card does that mean that it can be used as an email/date device? Could this be a BlackBerry competator w/ palm os capability? In the cnet interview the Palm CEO said that he saw the future breaking into 2 types of users. Voice and data users. I would be interested in a always on simple to use email device utilizing palm pim apps.

Grafitti

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 9:06:58 AM #
I have heard that the other Treos with the keyboard will accept Grafitti if the user is using an application that allows grafitti to be written on the screen. Anyone know if this is true?
RE: Grafitti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 11:37:07 AM #
Yeah, I'd like to find this out too. I've been looking around for software like this for this purpose. I have a iiic and am trying to decide between a m130 and treo90. I really like graffiti though. Anyone know what software allows writing graffiti on the screen? I heard of something a long time ago and can't remember the name of it.

plaid

RE: Grafitti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:08:41 PM #
Apparently CIC's "Jot" application will work on the older Treo's and, presumably, on the Treo 90 as well, provided the Graffiti support is still included in the OS.
RE: Grafitti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 12:58:24 PM #
I just read in the Treo90 FAQ:

"...with the digitized screen, users can take advantage of third-party applications like RecoEcho 1.1, for example, that allow you to use on-screen Graffiti in addition to the keyboard".

So now we just need someone to write an application to allow some kind of screen swipes for launching hacks/da's that now use the graffiti area buttons.

plaid

RE: Grafitti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 12:29:02 AM #
Beware RecoEcho has no tap support for punctuation. It is not full graffiti sub.
RE: Grafitti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 12:53:57 AM #
I have only found out about recoecho reciently. There is another program out there for which I've forgotten the name. I thought it had 'screen' as part of the name, but I might be wrong. I've been searching without luck. Anyone else remember it?

plaid

RE: Grafitti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 12:56:26 AM #
I downloaded it and tried in my 505. It always return fatal error. It is good for 3.5 OS. It may not be workining in Treo 90 with 4.1 OS. No current version of the software. Beware.
RE: Grafitti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 2:05:59 PM #
recoecho works fine on my iiic with os4.1. I'm playing around with jot, and you can set it so many of the characters are just like graffiti, only the symbols etc. are very different.

plaid

No OSX support still?!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 9:47:28 AM #
A new device and still no support for their OSX customers? It's a shame. The Palm Desktop for OSX works with my Edge, but it would be nice to use a Handspring Desktop for full compatibility. Very nice device but I don't like the 'No SD/IO support'. Why not? What's happening with the Springboard too? Keep it for the low end devices? I think not.

Get going Handspring with that OSX desktop software!

RE: No OSX support still?!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 10:44:18 AM #
What are you complaining about dude? teh only difference between the Palms version fo the software and the Handspring version is the drivers. If you are using Palms version now without any problems, why complain?
RE: No OSX support still?!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:17:04 PM #
The only complaint I have is the installer. The Palm Desktop installs an updated installer file that is incompatible with my handspring. I need to turn this off just to sync. It always installs it. Everything else works fine of course. So when I need to install files, I need to turn the feature on and delete this installer file everytime from the handspring. Very annoying.
RE: No OSX support still?!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:00:39 PM #
Or just remove the updates that it's trying to install from: /Applications/Palm/Palm OS Updates and it shouldn't ever come up again and you've got full compatibility with OSX and the Treo.


RE: No OSX support still?!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 9:52:13 AM #
Tried it and it still came back the next hotsync. Must be in another location as well. Weird.
RE: No OSX support still?!
Kesh @ 5/29/2002 11:34:18 PM #
If you go into your Palm folder, there's a Palm OS Updates folder. Try renaming the file there. You'll get an error at the end of your Hotsync on the Mac, and it'll ask if you want to read the log file. Check it, and see if it says that a file 'could not be located'. If so, you've succeeded. You'll get the 'read log' message after every Hotsync, but you can just click Cancel or hit Escape to clear it.

Stowaway?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:14:01 PM #
Looks good...It uses the same hotsync port as the Treo phones, does anyone know if there is a Stowaway available?
RE: Stowaway?
fkclo @ 5/29/2002 5:57:03 AM #
Now that the Treo family uses the same connectors I guess all sorts of add-ons will be coming to the market soon, especially that Handspring is quite determined to bet on its Treo line. While full size keyboard is still in the waiting, I have already seen battery chargers ( emergency charging from AA batteries) for Treos.

Emergency Chargers for Treo?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 12:18:46 PM #
Where did you see emergency chargers using AA batteries. I would be interested in one of those. Thanks
RE: Stowaway?
fkclo @ 5/30/2002 2:20:14 AM #
Saw it in the computer store in Hong Kong. I bought one. Very neat. Works well.

Unfortunately I do not know how I can post a photo.

Treo 90 vs. m130

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:11:28 PM #
Treo 90
-------
size: 4.2" x 2.8" x .65" (smaller)
screen: 12 bit
input: keyboard only
memory: 16mb (more)
expansion: SD (no SDIO unless HS gives users software upgrade)

M130
----
size: 4.8" x 3.1" x .9"
screen: 16 bit (more colors)
input: graffiti only
memory: 8mb
expansion: SD w/SDIO (can use devices like bluetooth SD)


The score?
2-2:
-Treo has more memory & is smaller.
-m130 has more colors and SDIO

Of course, depending on the user, the input (keyboard or graffiti) should be the tie breaker. Also, I know of no details about battery life on the Treo. If it is similar to the advertised life of the 270, this could make a difference in the above 'low end' competition with the m130.

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:24:04 PM #
m130 is cheaper on discount. (don't know about t90 yet)

battery live is unknown, screen quality comparison is unknown. (m130 is pretty blurry with small fonts)

both are prety damned ugly with treo looking worst with the keyboard in most of the time you only do PIM.

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:27:16 PM #
I started this thread. I forgot to add 'weight':

M130 - 5.4 oz
Treo 90 - 4 oz (i believe this is the lightest Palm OS device in existence - am i right?)

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:27:16 PM #
>>The Palm m130 CANNOT display 16-bit color - its screen can also only display 12-bits. (See the thread above).


Is this really true? Can it be verified? If so, this begins to tip the score - with new info about weight (Treo the lightest Palm unit available) and m130 ACTUALLY having 12 bit display, our new score would be 3-1 for Treo 90 (yes i know - depending on whats important to you, this is probably a silly way to tally comparison - but humour me!). We need info on the m130 scrren debacle though.....

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 1:33:03 PM #
The Palm m130 CANNOT display 16-bit color - its screen can also only display 12-bits. (See the thread above).
RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 3:07:51 PM #
>>>>The Palm m130 CANNOT display 16-bit color - its screen can also only display 12-bits. (See the thread above).

>>Is this really true? Can it be verified?

See the two photos I posted comparing the available gradient levels on a 12-bit m130 screen vs. a 16-bit Prism:
http://www.geocities.com/an0nym0vs/

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 3:59:59 PM #
hmmm. looks like yr right - but i am not sure that these photos tell the complete story. Is there a better way to verify then this?
RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 7:27:15 PM #
According to Palm, the m130 is a 16 bit...

Taken from:
http://www.palm.com/products/palmm130/details.html

Display
Backlit, color screen with support for more than 65,000 colors.

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 8:17:01 PM #
"Backlit, color screen with support for more than 65,000 colors."

Well, from a marketing perspective, this is still a correct statement even if the display only outputs 12-bits, because the system definitely SUPPORTS 16-bit mode - it allows programs to assign a 16-bit value per pixel - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the full value ends up in the the screen output. Technically, black & white TVs "SUPPORT" color signals - they take the same input as color TVs, they just throw out the color information. The m130 appears to be doing a similar thing by throwing out some of the color information, because it definitely shows banding & dithering that don't appear on other 16-bit devices.

Have to question...
Quik_Fix @ 5/28/2002 8:34:03 PM #
I have be a doubting Tom on this one. Not that I don't think that you're test draws some attention to a question that needs to be investigated further. I just don't think the evidence is good enough to pronounce it 12-bit by one experiment. Just playing Devil's Advocate, but if all experiements were based on one trial, we'd be living in a very confused world. I hope someone can better answer the question good that you brought to everyone's attention.

...In accordance with the prophecy...

Quik_Fix
quikfix@hotmail.com

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 8:35:32 PM #
"...color screen with support for more than 65,000 colors" also seems unnecessarily wordy - if it really were a 16-bit display, why not just say "16-bit display","65K color display","Displays more than 65,000 colors", etc. Next to those, "...with support for..." sounds awkward and perhaps misleading.

Sony NR70V specs say:
"TFT color display with back lights 320 x 480 pixels, 65,536 colors"

Handspring Prism specs say:
"Displays 65,536 vibrant colors..."

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 12:02:57 PM #
According to Palm's KnowledgeBase:

Features of the Palm™ m130 handheld display

The Palm™ m130 handheld has a 160x160 resolution, passive matrix, transflective, color display with backlight. It is capable of displaying 16 bit color (over 65,000 colors).

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 1:00:48 PM #
>According to Palm's KnowledgeBase:

did u bother to look at the photos, or did u just swallow the blue pill?

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 5:58:45 PM #
Okay, look, I'm sorry, but despite the photos posted by Mr. an0nym0vs on his anonymous web page, the m130 IS a 16 bit screen. Does anyone remember the howls of protest when it became clear the early Jornada (or was it the first Ipaqs?) had 12 bit screens despite advertising 16 bit screens? The m130 has been out plenty long enough now that some alert person - there are a LOT of techies that come to these MSBs - would have discovered it and started a screaming flamefest.

Mr. an0nym0vs, would you please stand up and identify yourself?

RE: Treo 90 vs. m130
cyruski @ 6/3/2002 1:03:16 PM #
he is correct. i tried it on my own. without graidents, there is enough dithering on the typical colors. on photos, they are more evident.

cyruski!

At this rate...

ssummer @ 5/28/2002 3:09:19 PM #
At this rate, Handspring will have an OS5 PDA out by early 2004...

RE: At this rate...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 9:26:03 AM #
I prostrate myself at the feet of the worlds greatest living comedian.

Giving Up on Graffiti?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 4:17:26 PM #
Is Handspring going to give up entirely on Graffiti? The Visors are supposedly on their way to the discontinued list, and all the new Treos are QWERTY-keyboard only.

Eston Bond
http://www.pinetreesoftware.net/

RE: Giving Up on Graffiti?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 1:37:34 AM #
springboard too it seems

Graffiti

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 6:32:05 PM #
We need graffiti or at least the option for it. I hope sony and palm never make this mistake.
RE: Graffiti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 8:25:36 PM #
Don't forget that Palm has just lost a lawsuit against Xerox regarding the infringement of Graffiti technology. The dispute hasn't been settled. Maybe HS thinks it's too costly to include this "risky" stuff in the new model.


RE: Graffiti
terrysalmi @ 5/28/2002 10:44:30 PM #
The Treo keyboard series DOES have the option for graffiti! You can still use programs such as Reco-Echo or Jot to write DIRECTLY ONTO THE SCREEN. This way, you get the best of both worlds!

RE: Graffiti
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 2:38:18 AM #
Are you sure RecoEcho is working on Treo 90 with 4.0/4.1 OS? RecoEcho works on 3.5 OS in Treo 180. Fatal errors on m505 with 4.1 OS. Support is only for 3.5 OS.

2 to 3 Weeks??

Fizband @ 5/28/2002 6:51:24 PM #
I thought it was odd that the item was already backordered 2 to 3 weeks. I hit Handspring's site roughly and hour after the announcement. Is it me or did the notice posted from the get go?

Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)<---- OPEN MOUTH. INSERT FOOT!
RE: 2 to 3 Weeks??
Fizband @ 5/28/2002 7:06:58 PM #
Sorry...Is it me or was the notice posted from the get go?


Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)<---- OPEN MOUTH. INSERT FOOT!

Somewhat Confusing...

PIC mobile user @ 5/28/2002 7:09:09 PM #
I thought Treo was a name that described PDAs that did 3 things: Palming, web & phone. So it might throw some people off that this is called a Trio but is only a Palm OS PDA. Bad name, methinks.
Treo not Trio
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 9:00:40 AM #
Somehow treo as been interpreted as trio (3 things) in most of the forums but I don't think that is really true.
RE: Somewhat Confusing...
taxus @ 5/29/2002 6:28:53 PM #
That line over the "e" in "Treo" looks to me like an "é", which is pronounced like "ay" in Spanish and French, not "ee". So it always seemed to me that it's "tray - o", not "tree - o".

It looks like accented letters always look cool to English-speaking marketing people who chose product names, but of course I bet the Tréo's keyboard doesn't really support international characters, doesn't it?

That would be the only thing stopping me from buying it (I need international characters, since my mother tongue isn't English). I've been a Palm owner for 5 years, and frankly, Grafiti is getting old.

Ever since I went from PalmOS 3.3 to 3.5, my writing speed has gone way down I've always felt the Grafiti recognition routine performs worse in 3.5. It feels sluggish to me, compared to Palm OS 2.x, 3.0 and 3.3 run on the same 16MHz DragonBall. Most of the time I feel the Palm can't keep up with me, and I get a lot more recognition errors under 3.5 than in previous versions.

I was looking at the Palm m130 for my next machine, but now, I'm very interested in the Tréo 90.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

RE: Somewhat Confusing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 3:35:20 AM #
There's a portable music player called Treo, pronounced tray-o. The guys who made apparently made the trademark registration a month before Handspring did. So Handspring gets the Treo, pronounced tree-o.

Besides, that's how Jeff Hawkins pronounces it, if you can still get the Treo design-and-development movies from the Handspring site.

Won't work

PIC mobile user @ 5/28/2002 7:54:49 PM #
I see no use for this model. No jog wheel, no graffiti, no wireless, no real expansion possibility, with a price of 299. I will stick with my delux & buy bargin basement modules like the eyemodule & mp3s. I will eventually upgrade to a prism on ebay for 150 or dangers new hiptop. The treo line will be a passing fancy.
RE: Won't work
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 10:38:44 PM #
Wann buy my prism, keyboard, flashplus, modem, backup card, 8mb memory card and 128mb flash for $299?


RE: Won't work
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 4:43:53 PM #
Not really, no. I think I'd rather have an m105 and a trip to London.

Info on the screen..

Fizband @ 5/28/2002 7:54:49 PM #
I just read on ZDNET's Anchor Desk that the preproduction unit he tested had a better than expected screen and that a note was attached stating the release unit would have a better screen.
http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2867962,00.html

Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)<---- OPEN MOUTH. INSERT FOOT!
RE: Info on the screen..
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 8:11:00 PM #
i read on msnbc that the screen was alot better than the reviewer thought it would be...this looks like a winner.
RE: Info on the screen..
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 9:04:31 PM #
didn't they say thing like that about m130?
RE: Info on the screen..
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/28/2002 9:14:17 PM #
no...they said the screen was excellent for a color palm pilot under $280 bucks. i cant wait to play aaround with the t90....i really hope it has a decent screen.
RE: Info on the screen..
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 12:44:09 AM #
I read a review that said the screen was slightly larger than the m130, I'm glad for that. Can't remember which site though. When they measure screen sizes, to they mean diagonal? The review said that the m130 screen was 2inches and the treo 90 was 2.75 inches. I'm thinking this must be diagonal, since 2.75 inches in width would be bigger than my iiic screen!

plaid

RE: Info on the screen..
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 10:29:05 AM #
Having compared the screens on an m130 and treo 90, the treo wins. It was sharp and clear in all lighting conditions (it was a cloudy day). My over 50 eyes have some trouble with the m130, but not so with the treo. Bejeweled looks great!

you people are missing a point..

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 11:29:34 AM #
treo 90 is not definetaly the winner.

because it doesn't have -any- accessories. the m130, having the UC, can be used with a palmpix, 802.11 adapter, gps, modem, etc. this list is growing everyday because UC is used in 6 kinds of palms.

the connector on the treo, in contrast, doesn't have any accessories (apart from the cables and cradles- which are not peripheals), and even if it will have some, they will probably be less than the UC ones, because the number of all treos (180, 180g, 270 and 90) can only be a fraction of that of m500, m505, m515, m130, m125 and i705.

m130 also has the ability to be used with SDIO stuff, palm bluetooth adapter, margi presenter-to-go usb, etc.

IMO, people who prefer to invest in the future would probably prefer the m130.

RE: you people are missing a point..
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 11:44:17 AM #
replace accessories with peripheals in the post. i didn't mean cases, styli, or cradles with accessories.
RE: you people are missing a point..
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 11:59:45 AM #
I see your point, but they can offer a SDIO software upgrade. How large is the market for propietary GPS add-ons? I don't think they're going after that market. It looks like this is a corporate Palm, and a dam good one. If your employees have cell phones,give themone of these and the've got a great transition to all-in-one device 12-18 months from now, when they work.
RE: Treo 90 Reviewed
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 8:43:06 PM #
That thing doesn't have a single thing that wasn't in the PIC early-write up of it. Makes me think they just look at that and rewrite it in that "professional" ZDnet way.
RE: Treo 90 Reviewed
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 2:00:19 PM #
I'd have to agree. The Pen Computing review was much better. Zdnet review's are pathetic. They lack picks and when it comes to ergonomics I notice they never say anything other than "it fools good/bad in my hand."

Video of the Treo 90 in action

Fizband @ 5/29/2002 2:25:39 PM #
Cnet has some video of the Treo 90 and 270 in action.
http://news.com.com/2014-1089-0.html#

Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)<---- OPEN MOUTH. INSERT FOOT!

RE: Free SONY Marketing Research

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2002 2:37:47 PM #
You want to know the real reason for the Treo 90?

Handspring was the first PalmOS vendor out with multiple colors they know the fashion trends. In parts of the world, a good portion of high-end cell phones are carried only for looks and status. Some people carry a cheap cell phone inside their pocket and have an expensive but dead salvage unit on their belt or keychain, some are outright fakes (no electronics insides), etc. To most non-techy people, the Treo 90 will look like an expensive cell phone. Thus the 90 fills the need for people who want to carry something that looks really new, hip and expensive (and maybe also would like a nice color gaming handheld), but don't need another cell phone.

It's also the lightest color Palm handheld.

RE: RE: Free SONY Marketing Research
Fizband @ 5/29/2002 4:14:59 PM #
I have to say that the world is full of stupid people! For looks?? If it has no function what the heck are you carrying it for?

Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)<---- OPEN MOUTH. INSERT FOOT!

Treo 90 Reviewed at Pen Computing

Fizband @ 5/29/2002 4:19:36 PM #
http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/Pen45a/treo90.html

Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)<---- OPEN MOUTH. INSERT FOOT!

Really good pics of the Treo90

Fizband @ 5/29/2002 4:36:19 PM #
http://www.infosync.no/show.php?id=1879&page=2

Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)<---- OPEN MOUTH. INSERT FOOT!

Treo 90. Nice, but I really wanted a Visor "Prism Deluxe"

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 10:58:22 PM #
I don't know why Handspring would bring out an organizer using the Treo formfactor. If anything, I think for the next several years the merged organizers/communicators will be adopted by few comsumers. So, why did they bring out this non-communicator with a tiny little screen, when what a lot of current Visor owners wanted was an updated version of the prism with a better screen, more memory, faster processor, updated OS, and a springboard slot??

It's going to be hard for Handspring to maintain consumer loyalty when everytime they update their product line, they make their current line completely obsolete. I have a Visor keyboard, memory module, and mp3 player, and I will not be investing in a Treo. Sorry, Handspring, you really dropped the ball on this one.

Abandoning users?
orb2069 @ 5/31/2002 12:00:50 PM #
> It's going to be hard for Handspring to maintain consumer loyalty when everytime they update their
> product line, they make their current line completely obsolete.

Why?

It seems like Sony changes their connectors every month or so, for some inscrutable reason - But they've apparently still got some people buying.

Palm managed to become the head of this pack while changing their connector (Counting - P1000-PPP, PIII-IIIc, V-Vx, m100, 'Universal Connector') FIVE times.

It seems like whenever a PDA Manuf gets strapped for cash, we get to play another round of http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/connector-conspiracy.html> Connector Conspiracy...

> I have a Visor keyboard, memory module, and mp3 player, and I will not be investing in a Treo.

Sorry to hear that. Open hardware standards your friend. I suggest you base your future buying decisions on that knowledge? I've heard rumors that Handera is working on a color PDA, which might be worth a look.

I /am/ the eggman.

RE: Treo 90. Nice, but I really wanted a Visor
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/31/2002 5:58:16 PM #
This was my post originally, and I want to respond to orb's comments.

Why are people still buying Sony products when they have changed their connectors also. Good question, but the answer must be that Sony is attracting new product buyers, and they've been in the game for such a short period of time no one has had a product long enough to need an upgrade, and therefore, hasn't got pissed off yet. Wait until they want to upgrade and find out their accessories are worthless.

To me it makes sense to find a standard, and stay with it. Now when I go to buy a new PDA, since I have to re-purchase all my peripherals due to Handspring making the springboard and visor connector obsolete, Handspring is on the same playing field as everyone else. If, on the other hand, they had used the same connector and included a springboard slot (or at least an adaptor) the Treo would be my only choice. As it is, the Treo is no more of a contender for my $$$ than any other PDA out there.

And, as you say, open hardware standards may be my friend, but with the sd slot on the Treo not being i/o capable, they still haven't made the grade on that. And with the Treo's OS not being upgradable, that means any "patch" will reside in ram taking up space, and possibly being lost if the unit powers for long enough, or a fatal error occurs and I can't sync to get it back right away. The Treo may make a great little communicator, but a Treo formfactor organizer was a stupid idea.

My wish list is simple. A Visor formfactor upgrade of the prism with a better screen, more ram, faster processor, Palm Os on flash, springboard and SD/MCC slot, and I'd buy one today.

Hasta La Springboard.
orb2069 @ 6/1/2002 4:26:46 AM #
Wow! A non-trolling IM!

> Why are people still buying Sony products when they have changed their connectors also. Good question, but
> the answer must be that Sony is attracting new product buyers, and they've been in the game for such
> a short period of time no one has had a product long enough to need an upgrade, and therefore, hasn't got
> pissed off yet. Wait until they want to upgrade and find out their accessories are worthless.

As the saying goes, there's one born every minute.

Or it might wind up being that Sony's target market is so into the consume-and-toss culture that the idea of having to buy a new garage when you get a new car is something they expect - Remember that there's lots of people who do the pitch-and-replace method of computer upgrading now, too.

> If, on the other hand, they had used the same connector and included a springboard slot (or at least
> an adaptor) the Treo would be my only choice.
As it is, the Treo is no more of a contender for my
> $$$ than any other PDA out there.

That's the whole point of a propriatary connector/interface. Hence, Palm's unwillingness to licence it's 'Universal Connector' to other PDA manufacteurs. And though Sony's allowed others (But only one other PDA manuf, AFAIK) to copy the Memory Stick interface, you'd better bet they hold all the patents, and nobody will EVER beat them at their own game with it. And when MemoryStickII is ready...


> And, as you say, open hardware standards may be my friend, but with the sd slot on the Treo not being i/o
> capable, they still haven't made the grade on that. And with the Treo's OS not being upgradable, that
> means any "patch" will reside in ram taking up space, and possibly being lost if the unit powers for
> long enough, or a fatal error occurs and I can't sync to get it back right away.

All very valid concerns. Handspring has always been behind the curve on upgradability - this is nothing new, and people have been moaning about the lack of Flash since the first Visors were released.

As far as the SD slot - SD is a VERY cramped form factor. Everybody's promised peripherals in the format, but I really haven't seen too much reach production besides memory and Palm's Bluetooth module. It's possible that manufs' will make SD peripherals that 'overflow' the SD slot, to overcome the size limitations, but for which form factor? Can you imagine something that sticks out an inch and a half on an m125?

> The Treo may make a great little communicator, but a Treo formfactor organizer was a stupid idea.

I've got a funny feeling that Handspring committed themselves to a Bold New Future, then realized that they'd shot themselves in the foot. The 90 is a half-step back, where they can stay in the organizer market without looking like they had a 'OH SH*T!' moment to the market/stockholders.

After Dubinsky shot her mouth off about killing the visor, producing another machine with a springboard on it would be like smearing egg all over their faces. They've figured out that the celphone market isen't ready to support them yet, and this is as far as they're willing to backpedal.

>My wish list is simple. A Visor formfactor upgrade of the prism with a better screen, more ram, faster
> processor, Palm Os on flash, springboard and SD/MCC slot, and I'd buy one today.

I don't think the OS on flash is EVER going to happen - Or the screen - You might want to consider snapping up a few machines on clearance and cobbling them together, though - A Visor Platinum processor board on a Prism might make a really spiffy machine, if you can pull it off. The Visors I've taken apart are very modular, internally. You might even be able to do this without picking up a soldering iron. YMMV, IANDF (Your Mileage May Vary, I Am Not Doctor Frankenpalm) - You do have to like a PDA where they give you the screwdriver to dismantle the thing in the stylus, though.



I /am/ the eggman.

RE: Treo 90. Nice, but I really wanted a Visor
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2002 10:33:20 AM #
Thanks for the reply eggman. I see we agree on the main points. Why Handspring didn't find out what consumers really wanted before bringing the Treo 90 to market is beyond me. Long live the Visor! (esp. when the alternative is some silly Treo device with a SMALLER screen, lack of communication capability, with no expandability).

-Not your average IM

RE: Treo 90. Nice, but I really wanted a Visor
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/1/2002 4:01:23 PM #
> The Treo may make a great little communicator, but a Treo formfactor organizer was a stupid idea.

I'm another non-average IM, and I strongly disagree. In fact, I'm considering getting a Treo 90 (after I've seen, played with, and tested software on one myself). Side note: Orb--you said Handera may be working on a color unit. Do you (or anyone else) have any scoop on details/when it'll be out? It'll have to be soon, I'd think, if it's running OS 4.x...

Please note: what follows is my opinion and I'm posting it to illustrate my decisions, not pass judgement on anyone or claim that anything is "the one right device" for everyone. There's no such thing.

Anyway... I'm a long-time Palm user--4 yrs--currently with a Vx, been itching to upgrade for about a year now, but there hasn't been one unit that was a clear "right choice" for me.

I applaud Palm's choice to implement a universal connector, but I don't like the design they chose and the way it's so hard to pull a device free. I also felt I'd be "settling" for SD and limited content/expansion options on a new device from Palm.

Sony: I felt I'd be settling even more with Memory Stick, I don't want to get on a model-of-the-month merry-go-round, I don't like the styli or buttons on the T615, and despite the hi-res, the color has some issues (brownish reds, etc). The NR70 is just too big for me to even consider, much as I like the virtual Graffiti area.

Handspring: the cutting of Springboards ruled out the Edge, the Prism's too big, and since my cell phone is AT&T and I don't want to switch, the other Treo models are out (unless I decide I want a second phone just for Internet--which is financially not an option at the moment).

HandEra: the 330's size and weight might be manageable (contrary to what some have said), the virtual Graffiti area would be good, and the dual expansion would be great for Internet, but it doesn't have color or USB connectivity, and compatible peripherals, while still out there, are starting to disappear from shelves.

The Treo 90 would be the same weight as the Vx (the m500 is the only other one that low), 16 Mb onboard--my Vx is almost full now), has expansion (even if only SD w/o I/O), and costs significantly less than the m515. I don't mind using Graffiti now, but I anticipate being able to enter info faster on the keyboard, and use 3rd party software to still do Graffiti on the screen.

I have a hunch that Handspring will release an SDIO update, and that other programs on SD (alluded to in Pen Computing's review) will be updated or patched. So, it makes sense--to me--for me to upgrade to the Treo 90 now and then wait until there are several OS 5 devices out to choose from before upgrading again.


Screen Display

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/30/2002 11:35:46 PM #
How do the brightness and contrast of the screen display on the Treo 90 compare with other color models? I am looking for a good black on white display (not black on green, etc.) for the address book and telephone numbers.
Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: