Comments on: Rumor: Palm Zire Revealed

I am in medical education, to use the free PDR, you need 3 megs, Epocrates is 1.5 megs, Kidcompanion is 2 megs. See where I am getting at. A new user impressed by his/her colleague's ability to call up drug info is going to walk right past this one and into the waiting arms of Sony or HandEra.

A budget PDA needs atleast 8 megs to be functional and needs SD/IO or Memory Stick for add on memory. This one can't even function as a RAM scratch pad backing up to the SD card.

The management team always hope for a mass market appeal, but that's not the case here. Palm will be ready for the mass market, when:

1)The price is acceptable for entry level users
2)The contents of the hardware is decent.

The price of the Zire, is certainly acceptable. However, its hardware, is almost unuseable. The hardware itself reminds us of going back to the Pilot era, not even the Vx. If any of you recall, PCs become popular in the 90s because the price goes down yet the performance/level of the hardware and software goes up. But that's not the case for the Zire.

The only difference from the aged m105 is the sheer look. But yet the RAM goes down to 2 MB. Anyone who wished to buy Palm as an organizer have purchased the m105 for the use. So where are the new comers for the Zire? And to wrap it under a transparent package (like a Casio calculator)?

Palm is doomed (at least on the hardware company). The top management team did not improve the content of its handhelds and keep the price unchanged. Instead, they cut the hardware and keep the price unchanged. Consumers are not stupid, anyone who has a brain will switch to the low-end Sony SL-10s for a mere $50 difference because they could get some useable amount of RAM and at least 4 standard buttons plus a jog dial.

Palm is still thinking about how to attract the public to pay $100 for a grocery shopping list organizer. What a shame!!!

******************
Lie is the future.

Scott

Now with this device if you want to hotsync, you need to go through a few steps to get to the HotSync program. Or, if you want to access your to-do list, you have to go through a similar exercise. Fewer buttons does not equal easier to use.

Scott

They might be able to sell this if it's not over $39.95.

This modlel is DOA? Get real.

Stupid doctor. Haven't you heard of market segmentation. This model isn't for people who know what a PDR is; it's for the 10% to 25% of new buyers who may never install any 3rd party applications on their Palmtop, but are in a market segment that is very cost and style conscious (that's several million potential buyers!)

The high end Sony NR and Palm Tungsten series are for geek high-income doctors types, and have bigger profit margins to match.

1)The price is acceptable for entry level users
2)The contents of the hardware is decent."
---------------------

This is only part of the story. Making a complete "product" is more than just its price and stats. I just don't think that Palm's marketing understands that at all.

Who is this device going to be sold to? "People looking for a cheap PDA" isn't a really a market. Why? Because you don't know what they are going to do with it, so you don't know why'd they buy it.

There's a phrase that I heard a few years ago that fits: "sell the need, push the want". If there isn't a need, then you have the harder task of pushing the product.

Palm needs to start customer focus groups and hard targeting them for sales by customizing the product for them.

Todd.

Duh... What type of retart school of marketing did you come from? I see what Palm is trying to do. They are trying to create a market for a LOW END device, with a PDA that has less to offer hardware wise than any PDA Palm current has ever sold sells for roughly the same or near the same price that m105 sold for which offered more to new users than this PDA has. Palm is trying to pool an Apple here, by recapping as much of their profits with what could be looked at as lame hardware.

The downside to doing business like this, is one it looks bad to those who know the company. And two, Palm could have a better chance in retaining NEW Customers with a workable product, or a product that provide real function. No company has ever lost their user base because their customers had options, which is how I see the m105 at least. An M105 can still function like every other Palm with the exception of the lack of memory. But this... this doesn't even come in the same ball park to call it's self a Palm.

Get a PPC if you need more memory, Dr. Troll.

Hmm.. so I guess there are no more 'new' users. "We" were the last of them and Palm has no choice but to just continue with high end models.

What about people who have never owned one but want to try out an organizer without spending an arm and a leg? Students perhaps? Parents on a budget? I know there are other Palms out there that have more features and are just barely more expensive than this one, but $50 is a lot to many people.

: We all went through the decision tree of buying the
: limited PDA (Visor vs VDX) or the larger model.
: I bought the larger model because I knew I would
: need more than 2 MB.
: I am in medical education, to use the free PDR, you
: need 3 megs, Epocrates is 1.5 megs, Kidcompanion is
: 2 megs. See where I am getting at.

Actually, no. "We" are not all medical students. And if we were, then surely this isn't the market that Palm is trying to aim for. It's an entry level PDA, not one geared towards a professional who may need the extra memory/expansion.

: A budget PDA needs atleast 8 megs to be functional
: and needs SD/IO or Memory Stick for add on memory.
: This one can't even function as a RAM scratch pad
: backing up to the SD card.

I'm sorry, but a budget PDA needs to be cheap, and it will at the cost of hardware. However, for YOUR needs, yes, it's not enough. For someone who just wants an organizer/phonebook/misc, 2MB is more than reasonable. remember the PalmPilot Personal? Even at 512K it was more than enough for me when all I needed was a place to store contacts and numbers (with the card game here and there). It's only when I wanted more that I upgraded years later. But then again, that was me.. the newbie, way back when.

How it will do in the market? Who knows? We'll have to see how many people eat this up. Even I have my doubts, but I've lost touch with reality so don't ask me.

I don't know who is on your list of "we" when you're defining PDA necessities, but it surely is not everyone.

Jim

Palm is going to hurt itself because they will lose the repeat buyer. No one will buy their entry product and say "gee this is useful, but I wish I had feature X also". They will say, "gee my friend bought X and he can do a lot more with his, therefore I will replace my POC PDA with one like his."

Palm loses for the same reason that Nissan lost to Toyota. The entry level Corolla was a better car than the entry level Nissan. People were happy with their Toyota and stayed put when they upgraded to the Camry. Palm will lose on this one, especially if this is the only entry level product they sell.

BTW: Flames are ridiculous. Try some other form of discussion, you might actually like it.

You were talking about spending $200-$250, NOT $100. That's a significant difference.

>> "I am in medical education, to use the free PDR, you need 3 megs, Epocrates is 1.5 megs, Kidcompanion is 2 megs. See where I am getting at. A new user impressed by his/her colleague's ability to call up drug info is going to walk right past this one and into the waiting arms of Sony or HandEra." <<

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are a TINY segment of the market. So tiny, in fact, that ePocrates decided it wasn't worth their money to market a Palm directly to you. If you need more memory, buy it, but don't go bitching because Palm's entry-level model doesn't suit you. And don't go assuming that because you wouldn't buy it, no one would. That's a combination of arrogance and stupidity--not exactly what I would want in my physician.

Well, yes. But remember, the m105 was introduced at a price of $250, then fell in price as it aged. This unit will introduce at $100, and I'd bet it'll drop to $75-80 in time for Christmas. In a year, it might be as cheap as $50. Imagine what you would've said 5 years ago if you could've bought a Palm III for $50--you'd have been in heaven. This is what Palm is hoping for from new users. They may not get it, but that's what they seek.

>> "Anyone who wished to buy Palm as an organizer have purchased the m105 for the use. So where are the new comers for the Zire?" <<

Wow. Earth to I.M. Anonymous! Clearly, you're living on another planet, where EVERYONE carries a Palm with their cellphone. Here on Earth, everyone has a cellphone, but only a relatively small proportion carries a Palm. And the 1/16% of the world's population that reads PIC probably accounts for about 30% of the Palms sold, since we just can't help ourselves from dropping $400 every so often to try something new.

>> "And to wrap it under a transparent package (like a Casio calculator)?" <<

What's wrong with that? Last time I checked, Casio (and TI, as well) was still doing VERY well in the calculator business. Blister packaging is cheap and easy to display. Get off the high horse.

You don't have to agree with Palm's tactics. But the prima-donna-esque, "I'm a genius and Palm is a bunch of terd-head idiots" routine is arrogant, it's ignorant, and it's a waste of time.

Yes.

Palm found that, based on researching of *average* users (not PIC geeks), most people use the Datebook and To Do buttons most. So they included these on the new...say it with me...ENTRY-LEVEL model.

You know, designed for people who've never picked up a PDA before...
...people who probably won't sync very often, and therefore won't care about a cradle...
...people who primarily want to keep phone numbers, addresses, a calendar, and a to-do list in something other than a giant notebook that costs them something like $75 per year in updated pages...
...people who don't feel the need to play Zap! at the airport...
...people who don't care if their info's not in color...
...people who want a low cost, regardless of the bells and whistles...
...people who don't frequent PalmInfocenter...

Makes you wonder why our hospitals here in the U.S. have patients from all over the globe. Also, makes you wonder why our medical schools are attended by students from all over the globe. But mainly, it makes me wonder about people that make assinine, ignorant, and ill-informed statements.

"Yes."

Actually, no. It _doesn't_ make it easier to use. An entry level device is a great idea. The Palm m100 was a pretty good entry level device. Of the entry-level people I've spoken with, the reason why they didn't buy it wasn't because it was too complicated, it was because they had a hard time justifying spending $100. This device solves nothing but, perhaps, increasing the profit margins for Palm. If, in fact, there's more profit to be made on this device, I hope they smarten up and decide to sell it for less (i.e. - keep the same profit margin they made on the m100 with a lower price point). This device could sell great at $49. At $99, it's just a bad value.

Scott

Really, if a previous poster's comment about starting this unit out at $100 and dropping the price as time goes on is even partly accurate, then why not do it right from the start and keep the price reasonable.

Use the same form, but add;
-Simple 8 bit color...just for a bit of pizzzzazzzz... (I threw my green on black monitors away years ago).
-4 megs of RAM. 2 MB is just not enough.
-Virtual graffiti. I know, what are you crazy! But think of this.

The biggest problem most novice users have with a PDA is data entry. It has certainly been debated enough on this site. A virtual graffiti area with a pop up keyboard (like the one on the Sony NR70) would be a perfect alternative. The ability to set either graffiti or keyboard as a default would be a must!

Don't expect a novice user to go out and look for overlays and forget about add-on keyboards (ports are on top, not bottom of device). Although this unit may be priced right, if a potential purchaser is concerned about data input, they will look elsewhere.

You know, not all novice users have jobs making $100 a week. Some novices may be doctors or other kind of professional. An entry level device should be able to attract all segments of the population. You don't buy a Harley if you want to learn how to ride a motorcycle, even if you can afford it.

Sorry, but I am betting that the only people buying this device are going to be misinformed grandmothers making gift purchases for a niece or nephew.

Back to the drawing board Palm.

And guess who half of the entire pda market is?

Exactly... those grandmothers and people who don't want to spend a fortune on things they don't need.

-Bosco

If you paid attention to Palms rhetoric about 6 months ago you'd know that this device exists in order to create up-sell opportunities.

That means that it is intentionally under-featured. The idea is to entice users with the low price and get them comfortable with a PDA, and at the same time become brand loyal to Palm. Then, with the crop of OS 5 devices that will be on the market the user will begin to crave those features that have been left out and go out and buy a new, better Palm. Because the price is fairly low, they don't feel like they have invested in their Palm. The packaging is even geared towards this... this type of throw-away packaging helps to reinforce the idea that this is a entry-level product that is designed to get people familiar with the segment.

Its interesting you mentioned cars, because this is a tactic car companies have used for years.

Now you can get _all_ of that in a VW that costs $25,000 or so, or 80% of the gadgets and "features" (if not the build quality) in a Hyundai that costs below 20,000.

It's almost impossible to buy a car without power windows and mirrors anymore, for example. Why can't a cradle and 4 buttons be included? Companies like VW learned a long time ago that it's actually cheaper in the long run to make a "hot" item standard (CD player, keyless entry, power windows etc) across the board (so they can squeeze their suppliers) instead of try to appease their customers with so many different options packages.

Palm should take a lesson and simplify their lineup, which would mean using a *UNIVERSAL* standard connector and button count, for one.

Now they will confuse the masses even further in 6 months by selling a Zire with a cradle and 4 buttons and the current one without.

User: (to Astraware tech support): I cannot play the Zap 2000 demo my friend beamed over to me

Astraware: What Palm model do you have?

User: Uhhh, a Zire, I think

Astraware: Which one, sir? Some of our games require a patch to operate on the base Zire model.

User: Uhhh, the ugly white one I guess

Astraware: Well, do you know the exact model?

User: Nope, it was a gift

Astrware: How many buttons does it have on the front?

User: I'm not sure. Is this green plastic one the fire button?

etc etc ad infinitum....

Palm is just cutting hardware and keeping the same price.

And why does someone always assume PDA will be as popular as cellphones? Is there a direct relationship or is that just a dream?

At least we know that Palm is standing on its ground, with the lanuch of the Zire. Perhaps the Tungsten's could really surprise us.

P.S. I never saw a calculator wrapped in transparent package and yet sell @ $100. Transparent-wrapped electronics usually means cheap (to cut costs). Perhaps Palm is breaking new ground on the record of the most expensive item using transparent wrapping. The left-over Palm 10xs will just overshadow the Zire, compared with their package, their contents, and of course, their price.

******************
Lie is the future.

Now it looks like palm is on the right track and 512k RAM is a logical next step.

Bravo!

Don't laugh. Toy'R'Us stocks a bunch of different cheap ($10 ?) PDA's fo rkids. I bet they aren't losing money on them.

The 2M RAM actually already puts extra 300uA constant drain on the battery than 512k.

Who will need battery with 512K anyway? My only advice would be Don't litter if you really want to throw it away

Many people here have talked about cost (save big money on two less buttons). But that's not necessarily so. If they had to change the manufacturing process to accommodate a 2 button model (hence now they manufacture a 2 and 4 button configuration) not including the design changes and the changes to the other circiutry.etc. Also, bulk buying of buttons may actually lower unit costs.

And the connector is the same. Two different manufacturing costs, design costs, etc.

This doesn't take into account documentation and training issues to support the differences. Also, one of the key features of Palm's (even low entry ones) is the amount of software, many of them written to take advantage of the 4 button models. Additionally, third party hardware providers (cables, thumbboards, etc.) now have two "standards" to contend with.

I guess my point is this: Without knowing the actual cost figures, no one outside Palm's privy can say with certainty that they cost less, however, one can say with certainty that there were/are additional costs incurred to change these fundamental "features"

Just my two cents

Mark

With pathetic 2M RAM configuration set at price range of 100-130USD, it won't look like a rip off for the next release of Zire series with mere 8M RAM at 250 USD, and hopefully will trigger a buying spree to repeat the profit miracles from Palm V to Vx and m505 to m515.

"BTW: Flames are ridiculous. Try some other form of discussion, you might actually like it."

Maybe its just me, but that sounded a lot like a flame.

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

Boy, you try to help people out, but sometimes they can just be so sensitive. Especially over a little thing like being called stupid.

The other day, I was depositing my paycheck at the bank, and the teller asked me, "Do you want this in checking?" Now, that's a pretty stupid question, seeing as I had closed out my savings account a month before and now only have a checking account. I couldn't believe her stupidity.

But, you know, I try to be tolerant and helpful when dealing with people who aren't all that swift. So, to give her a clue, I said, "Yeah, put it all in checking, stupid." No big speech, no insulting dissection of her dumb question. I just politely answered her and tacked on a little "hint."

Well, Little Miss Genius practically stared daggers at me! What was her problem? I mean, all I did was call her stupid. And it's not like it's even necessarily her fault she's that way. Her mother might have drank too much when she was carrying her or something. All I was doing was pointing out that there's a problem with her intelligence.

A similar thing happened at Pepe's a couple of weeks ago. I ordered the Beef Enchirito Deluxe Platter, and the waiter brought me a Chicken Enchirito. So, naturally, when he put it down in front of me, I gently said, "I'm sorry, but I ordered the Beef Enchirito, stupid."

The guy takes the plate back, and as he's leaving, he shoots me a nasty look. Geez, like I'm the dumbass who doesn't know a chicken from a cow! Strike two.

But even so, I try to be nice. Next time he comes to the table, I try explaining to him as nicely as possible why he's stupid. I even talk extra slow to make sure he follows me. But does he appreciate my efforts to better him? Of course not! He tells me, "I have a lot of other tables to serve, sir," and walks off. Yeah, that would be a real tragedy, not getting waited on by this Einstein, right?

That was his third strike. As a general rule, I drop my tip to 10 percent after the first stupid move, 5 percent after the second, and on your third, you lose the whole bundle. I guess a fourth mistake means the waiter would have to tip me, but I'll never find out, because I don't give people a chance to do a fourth stupid thing. I was out of there and off to a smart restaurant.

Frankly, I don't know why I even bother trying to help these people: Every time I do, they get all huffy and defensive.

It's like the silly brouhaha that erupted when a cop pulled me over last week. It was almost 10 p.m., and I was racing to get to the Builder's Square across town before they closed so I could get the wood screws I needed for my basement shelving project. Out of nowhere, Smokey swoops down on me, apparently preferring that I get to the store after it closes.

The first sign of trouble from this state-supported moron comes when he asks, "Do you know how fast you were going, sir?" Boy, did I ever! Ninety-three! So I say to him, "I've got a question for you, officer: If you've got a radar gun right there in your cop car, why do you have to ask? What are you, stupid?"

Next thing I know, I'm in court. I end up in front of a judge, and I think to myself, "Finally! A sensible pillar of the community who'll respond to reason!"

Well, guess what Judge Chucklehead has the gall to ask? "How do you wish to plead to the charges, Mr. Turpin?" Ye gods, was I in the Twilight Zone? What kind of question is that? I was dying to say to him, "Yeah, I think I'll plead guilty to first-degree trying to finish my shelves! May I see my loved ones one more time before you shoot me?"

But I held back, because I try to show respect to people in positions of authority, even if they don't deserve it. So, instead of responding in a condescending manner, I answered plainly, "How do I wish to plead? What do you think, stupid?"

I don't even want to get into what happened next, but suffice it to say my faith in our justice system was shaken to its core.

CJ

I think everyone has made great points. Business is complicated and decisions are made based on so many factors that you make the one that seems right and wait to see what happens. Palm isn't putting out this model thinking, "Okay, that ought to finish us off nicely!" They are making a decision to try to appeal to a certain market. Whether that decision is "stupid" is not for us to decide, (Again, I know we're all entitled to our opinions but let us not state them as facts.) I sell and train on PDAs every day and I see wisdom in a $50 Palm-branded PDA. At the same time, I don't think two more buttons would have killed their margin and some of their target market will want to play games--(students and kids who's parents bought it for them). I think that this will sell very well at $50-$60 and Palm will still make money. I just hope people buy it as a means to discover the Palm platform instead of buying it and discovering the model's limitations.

Keep up the entertainment!

-Jon

(Self-confessed Palm Geek)

Put out a really nice piece of hardware for the low-end market--rearrange the existing 6 current Palm buttons for a "D-pad with 2 action buttons" sort of layout (imagine the Zire layout with 2 extra buttons). Add the UC anda reasonable greyscale screen and whatever OS they like-I assume OS 4.1. Then decide if they want to do rechargable battery or AAs-probably AA for the savings route.

Basically, a revamped m125, but more stylish.
Sell the whole package for 99.99 and make everyone go ga-ga over the stylish, full-featured hardware for the $$ BUT have only 512k/1 meg of ram onboard! So it CAN play cool games and whatnot, but only have room for one in memory at a time! Still advertise on the packaging "thousands of phone #'s, years of appointments" and stuff like that. It'd be the equivalent of a 2 ghz P4, just with a 1 gig HD that is not user-replacable!

Or even better, bundle Bejeweled or Zap into ROM, whet the kids' appetites, and them have them clamoring for more add-on games....but they will find they don't have ram enough to install them. So they either get mad and dump Palm or (hopefully) they ask for a better unit next year at Christmas. It happens every 3 years in the game console world, because little Johnny just "has" to play Madden 2003 on his Playstation2 because Madden 2002 on his PSOne just was not hip enough.

You say that the Zire has no more features than the m100 or m105. It seems to me that the only difference is that it doesn't have the extra two buttons on the front, or the hotsync button on the cradle/cable. Guess what the zire adds - a rechargable battery and software to sync with outlook (Chapura). Gee, the m100 didn't have either of these and it came out for more than $100 when it was released. This device is great for people who don't have any exposure to palms.

As for blisterpack electronics feeling cheep and never seeing an $80 dollar calculator in blisterpack, every single model of TI calculator is sold this way. That includes the $200 TI-89 and Ti-92.

Just because something is not right for you doesn't mean that it is junk or a bad move. I know at least 30 people here at work that will jump on this thing when it is released.

Alex Johnson

Alex Johnson
<><

Proud Owner of a Handera 330

If you read PIC this model isn't for you.

I could go on...and on...and on....

I think this model has a purpose and it fits perfect into that purpose.

Good job Palm.

I could go on...and on...and on...." <<

Ah, see, but you're talking sense here. The average PIC poster hates that. PIC posters usually want to:
1. Assume whatever THEY want in their PDA is what "the market" wants.
2. Love BMW...Bitch-Moan-Whine.
3. Love to bash anything and everything Palm does.
4. More BMWs--please.
5. Have never had a real life, a real job, or a real sense of perspective toward the world...EVER.
6. Criticize anything that doesn't come from the "gods" at Sony.
7. throw civility, common sense, and just plain informative discussion out the window.
8. Flame mercilessly.
9. Avoid work at all costs.
10. Did I mention BMW?

Besides.. when was the last time you bought something AND REALLY USED IT?

Because the people who buy this (like all new users) will try to use it. Once they see that their Zire can't perform they like their friends Palm they will be Pissed.

Can you imagine getting this for Christman? What a dissappointment. I would probably switch to a PPC just because it can actually do more than the Zire!

Ah, the song of the Pocket PC troll, brought to us yet again...

>> "Once they see that their Zire can't perform they like their friends Palm they will be Pissed." <<

I'd imagine that most of the entry-level users who buy this won't have already seen "their friend's Palm" and bought it. This is for the newbie who's never seen it. If you buy this model after having envied a friend's Palm, you should know what to expect.

>> "Can you imagine getting this for Christman? What a dissappointment." <<

Not to someone who's never really looked into one. And BTW, learn to spell...

>> "I would probably switch to a PPC just because it can actually do more than the Zire!" <<

And when you exchange it, you'll have a heart attack after they ask you to fork over another $400.

Thank you, PPC troll. I believe your iPaq is recharged now, so you can go play Quake for another 20 minutes...

You are missing the point.
Several years ago 640kbs was all that was needed in a PC computer to function and run. Even Bill Gates him self back than said a PC computer will never need anything more than 640 Kbs.

Well, well, times have changed. Just because the Palm poilt a few years ago had 512 kbs, 1 meg, or 2 megs, doesn't mean that little size of memory is okay today. HAS ANYONE ever heard of Avantgo? A LOT of people like using this and even feels they need to use this on a daily baises. It was availible back when Palms only had 1 or 2 megs. This is a new thing. Try loading this on a 2 meg Palm and you wont have any room for anything else. Does anyone see thhe point I am making here. Unless you want to have 10,000 contacts on your Palm and no other third part software, than maybe this is for you.

Besides the realy argument here is WHY HAS PALM RELEASING A LOWER END DEVICE TO THE PUBLIC WHEN THE PALM 100S AND 105S WAS SUPPOSE TO FILL THIS GAP AND WHEN THEY CLEARLER OFFERED MORE TO THE CONSUMER THAN THIS DEVICE? They are roughly the same in price, so I don't see a need for this, but to take advantage of new user Palm / PDA users?

Lower will open up a larger market., Even if the product is inferior, it will sell as long as nobody else sells a better product for the same price.

For all those ne-sayer... what would you buy instead if you wanted an agenda/addressbook for about $100?

I have to agree.

While there are a number of people in my office who have PalmOS devices, I'm the only one I know of who uses anything other than the PIM software. In fact, cow-orkers who have Palms still ask me to look up phone numbers, since they don't enter numbers in the device itself, and almost never sync.

I think these kinds of users will love a (relatively) cheap, (relatively) non-geeky-looking Palm. I expect to see dozens of them around my office after the first of the year.

I'm sorry for that rant, I'm gonna log off red hat now, have a coffee, and stop referring to Microsoft with various insulting acronyms ;)

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

compare to Palm who insist on Zen and keep yapping about it while dragging their entire business down the toilet ignoring the future of handheld.

Well put from a man who is really using a Microsoft Operating systems and tries to pretend that he really is using Linux.

LOL

Well put from a man who is really using a Microsoft Operating systems and tries to pretend that he really is using Linux.

LOL

And the $80 calculator last for years before you need to replace the batteries. I doubt the new Palm has to recharge every week. And finally, I think tapping on the calculator is much easier (also faster) than tapping on the Palm touchscreen with a stylus.

******************
Lie is the future.

Maybe the Zire is a little short on memory, but it's still perfect for students, first-time users, younger people and so on. And maybe the Zire doesn't have 4 hardware buttons, but does it mean that the handheld sucks?

Happy and PROOOUD Zire user!!

Nobody cares what you want...

This is an ectry level at USD $99 ! What features do you expect them to put in this?

News Editor PalmInfoCenter

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=4029&MODE=FLAT#60875

One of the big differences between IrDA and Bluetooth is that Bluetooth does not need Line of Sight.

When volume kicks in Bluetooth will be very cheap in quantity. So don't be so 2 smart guys.

Can I watch TV on this??

The way to envision success is to take most of the users opinions and put them to use. This is democracy (And you keep saying God Bless America and hope Palm comes up with a better PDA without keeping up with user demands)

Yes.

1. Place a chair in front of the TV, so that the chair is facing away from the TV.
2. Sit in the chair.
3. With the Zire turned off, hold it straight out about 2 feet at shoulder height and slightly offset from your neck.
4. Adjust viewing angle.
5. With correct chair placement, you might even get surround sound.

As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger, "What do you mean "we", White Man?"

I like Palm too, but I think the criticism/wish list of yours is better placed somewhere other than a notice about a $99 entry level PDA.

Now you have a much better Gameboy Advance.

Todd.

-Hi Res Color Screen
-Virtual Graffitti
-Wireless Connectivity
-And this might be just me, but I want to multitask without losing my wireless connectivity." <<

Oh, please. Did you read the article? This is an ENTRY-LEVEL Palm device. People who read this site are NOT entry-level. This thing'll probably sell. Get over it.

Good for you.

By the way, a "troll" is generally someone who likes to go onto boards just to bash on the item being discussed (lots of trolls at PIC), to spread FUD, or to "stir things up." Someone isn't "troll-like" just because they criticize another poster for saying something that's, well, excessive and a tad ignorant.

Your comment has the tone of someone who'd like to run to their mommy because someone else wasn't nice to them. Perhaps you should develop a thicker skin.

-A

Its the old cheap razor/expensive blades scenario...

Doug

Although third-party software is improtant to you, a significant fraction of Palm's user base isn't even aware that you can install third-party software on it.

I think there is a sizable market of non-Palm users who will bite for $100-- and the savvy ones among those will then move up to a mid-range or high-end device 6-12 months later. They give the Zire to a relative and the cycle continues. I think it's a good strategy on Palm's part to expand the user base.

No, you infer that.

Big difference.

>Does that imply that the Tungsten products will be difficult to use, complicated, no fun at all, disabling, and unintuitive?

Absolutely. Not out of the box. But after installing a bunch of beta shareware with crappy or no manuals, trying to find which one made 14 copies of every ToDo and put them all in the Address List, reconfiguring the launcher and all the buttons until he can't remember which does what anymore, and thinking that a fun evening with the girlfriend is reading their PDR's on palmtops together...

I'd rather have a tiny m100 style screen, a 12/16 mhz Dragonball, OS 3.3, and two megs of ram if I could have (at minimum) all my standard hardware buttons. That would be sufficient for basic PDA tasks. Having a UC would be even sweeter. The above configuration would make for a fine entry-level Palm model. Everything that is currently out there would run, just not as well as it would on the m1xx series. I'd rather try to play a game with a slow CPU and 4 hardware buttons than have OS 4.1 (totally usesless having it on the Zire anyway) and a fairly speedy Dragonball but with no means whatsoever to play any games that require all buttons.

Unfortunately, since we are stuck with this travesty, a used m100 or Pilot Professional will makes for a more useful handheld for those that want to "grow" into their units (adding software, playing games, overclocking etc).

Now, a question--I know that everyone here keeps saying that the Zire is cheaper to produce than the m100/105. How can that be? Wouldn't all initial design and R&D costs of the m100s have been paid off long ago and each unit sold actually more profitable than they were ~2 years ago? If that were the case, aesthetics aside, it would have been far wiser to just have stuck with the existing m100 formfactor (call it an m115), stick OS 3.5 or 4 in it, make the case pearl white or silver, and not have had an SD slot onboard-but keep the UC and keep the ram at 2 megs. Voila!

What elements of the m100s are so costly to produce/implement? Is it the fairly high grade of plastic used for the casing? Is it the serial port on the bottom? The fact that it takes throwaway batteries? The internal circuit board layout and design? Does anyone have any engineering experience that could shed some light on this?!

I understand the appeal of humor but the best jokes are based on truth, which yours wasn't.

Get a life (oh, and a sense of humor)

Apparently you never learned that humor only works when people know that you're joking. And text has no facial expressions or body language to let people know you're kidding. Perhaps you should either totally exaggerate your joke so that it's obvious or, oh, maybe use a smiley? :)

Books actually used descriptions of people's expressions, body language and reactions to let you know that it was a joke being told. There's a significant difference between those, and a short, faceless Web post.

Truth be told, Ernie started sucking after he chose to spell it all out.

It just doesn't matter to the target entry level buyer what Sony or anybody sells for $150.

Some people just don't want to pay an extra $50 for features they don't need.

Others here seem to want a Pocket PC for $9.95. They're nuts. They may know what they want to pay, but they have no concept of manufacturing cost.

To the non-technophile buying their first handheld, what they are looking for is one that they won't waste too much money on if it turns out they don't use it. The Zire will be perfect for these people, better than the SL10, which is 50% more expensive.

EXACTLY. Ditto!

>> "100 is quite alot of money, seriosly, 50 dollars or maybe 30 (with rebates and stuff) is more like the price for this PDA." <<

And that's probably the price you'll get very soon. Heck, CompUSA might run a rebate deal right out of the gate!

Heh. micho, you're wife and mine. ;)

I was trying to show her the 2 new rumored Tungsten model mockups (which I thought was pretty interesting). She really didn't care and pointed out the fact that my m505 was still better. (She's definitely no technophile and didn't care to hear about the tech specs.)

Anyway, when I went back to the front page of PIC, she saw the Zire and asked what that was. Though, she didn't say she wanted it, she expressed interest by calling it cute and asking more about it. And I know for sure, she could care less about anything but a datebook and contacts list. Because that's all she would use it for (okay, and probably a copy of solitaire).

I'm in agreement with you on the greater value of the SL10, but even when I showed that model to her at CompUSA, she didn't even care. Said it just looked "ugly" and walked away.

Women.

(Er.. no offense to all those women out there ^_^)

Jim

I originally posted this thread. Of course you guys are right- this is the only PDA designed to cost $100, and it is significantly cheaper than $150.

I guess I just thought Palm could've added just a tad more for the money, considering the price of the m100. It's FAR better looking, but is actually LESS featured than the m100 (2 less buttons, not a big deal but still LESS.)

I would have thought they could have added the expansion, or at minimum upped the memory to 8 MB. Will Joe Sixpack or Betty Housewife really care? Maybe not, but it still would have been nice to make it a little more powerful than the m100. I can imagine a lot of HS or college students that would love this model and be able to take advantage of 8 MB RAM or expansion for either ebooks or more advanced programs.

lkluj

I don't know that the Zire will succeed, but breaking the $100 price barrier has been a goal for awhile. The thinking is that people who don't feel that they *need* a PDA might still pick this up, then a portion of those will eventually upgrade to something else.

Where I have a problem with this approach is in the apparent lack of any consumer "icing." The best companies find something of value to offer in their products without increasing the price point. Sony's inclusion of remote control software helped brand the T-415/615 as consumer-friendly devices, for example, even if few people ended up using the software down the line.

I personally think the the Zire is a pretty well-aimed device.

~Thomas

I don't want one - It's really not going to replace my 330, is it? - But there's lots of image/fashion concerned people who woulden't be caught dead with a lump-of-coal M100 or a queer looking gadget in some bizzare shade of purple.

Target is home to just the market to buy this thing, and I, for one, can see it doing really well.

The only thing that would seal it would be custom, easy to install alarm tones.

In six months to a year, given sufficient advances in technology, higher end units for less money will be the norm.

Until then... "McFly... McFly!!"

But see, if wasn't a POC to you when you got something similar about 5 years ago. Hell, you probably dropped upwards of $400 on the thing!

It's designed to get new users on board. It's not much for experienced PDA users. Get over it.

Sarcasm: Just one more service I offer

-mrhockey

Jon Acheson

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

Also tell your mom, not to replace her address book. With a nice looking PEN shell get more enjoyment out of that than with the Zire.

A lot of PPC trolls that don't understand market segmentation, and tried to convince me to buy you a nice pen rather than this hand held computer for Christmas. I know, they are a bunch of losers - what do you need a pen for? Unlike the USA, banking and billing has been automated for so long in Australia that you have been on