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Comments on: Rumor: Sony to Release NX Series with OS 5 (Updated)

An anonymous source has give CliéSource the description of a pair of future Sony handhelds called the NX series. These will have the same form factor as the NR series, including the clamshell shape and built-in keyboard. They will run Palm OS 5 on an Intel XScale processor. Like the NR series, they will use a 320 by 480 screen.

Update: An annonymous source has given Geek.com some pictures and details on the NX70V. This source says it will use a 200 MHz processor and have 16 MB of RAM. A spokesperson from Sony has requested that these images be removed from PIC and we (reluctantly) consented. -Ed

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Ed's Take on This

Ed @ 9/25/2002 4:23:15 PM #
This isn't my source so I can't comment on the reliability. I can say that all of this sounds reasonable to me except the 640 by 480 screen.

Ignore this message. I misread the CliéSource article and thought it said the NX series will have a 640 by 480 screen. Instead, its camera will be able to take pictures at 640 by 480. According to this source, the screen will be 320 by 480 the same as the NR series.

---
News Editor

640 x 480???
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:25:44 PM #
With the screen at 640x480, what will the size of the handhelds be???
RE: Ed's Take on This
volcanopele @ 9/25/2002 4:27:07 PM #
Actually, I think the source was refering to the camera's resolution, not the screen. The screen itself is hi-res+ like the NR series, but the camera is VGA.

Jason

RE: 640 x 480???
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:28:32 PM #
the proportions are wrong for a palm screen, if anything they should be 640 x 960
RE: Ed's Take on This
rsuplido @ 9/25/2002 4:28:42 PM #
Ed, the camera can take 640x480, but the screen I think, is still 320x480.

Reggie
http://www.cliesource.com
RE: 640 x 480???
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:29:04 PM #
pixels don´t say anything about the size.
it´s just the resolution.

320x320 displays are the same size as 160x160 displays.

but the 480x640 doesn´t make sense:
it´s a 3:4 ratio while hires+ (320x480) has a 2:3

RE: Ed's Take on This
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:29:17 PM #
Yes, if you read the 2 threads on cliesource, the 640x480 res is for the enhanced camera (which also allegedly can record MPEG4 video). The screen itself is still 320x480. The thing I find hard to believe is the (pseudo) CF slot. Although Sony does have a CF sled that works with some of their current devices, I can't believe that they would be able to fit both a CF and MS slot in the same form factor as the NR series, and I don't see that much value in it if it can only support one card, a Sony-branded 802.11 wireless ethernet card -- if they wanted this, why not just integrate the wireless support into the handheld? Why have a card slot that only supports a single card!?!?!
RE: 640 x 480???
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:30:26 PM #
Same as before. Higher resolution has no bearing on size.

. . . .

. . . . A 3x4 screen

. . . .

.......
.......
....... A 5x7 screen
.......
.......

Both the same size, but pixels packed more densely. Result is lines are less jaggy.

RE: Ed's Take on This
rldunn @ 9/25/2002 4:30:35 PM #
I misinterpreted this at first on Cliesource as well, but the source comfirmed that it's only the pic resolution that is enhanced and the screen is still 320x480.

RE: Ed's Take on This
Ed @ 9/25/2002 4:31:10 PM #
OK, thanks. Sorry Reggie, I misunderstood what you wrote. I'm in the process of correcting the article now.

---
News Editor
RE: Ed's Take on This
rsuplido @ 9/25/2002 4:33:56 PM #
I think the stills can be up to 640x480. It is still unclear if the MPEG4 video format can capture up to 640x480.

Reggie
http://www.cliesource.com
Palm Tungsten T vs. Sony Clié NX70V
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 9:40:52 AM #
RE: Recording Resolution
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 2:30:38 PM #
According to the leaked pdf, recording is at:

160 x 112 pixels. Approx. 2Mb per Min. MPEG4

2Mb per min. looks alot to me for a 160 X 112 video. Can someone validate this in terms of typical bit rates for MPEG4. It could be due to the framerate (could not find it in the PDF)

Zuber

SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:25:13 PM #
Anyone want to be a slightly used m515????
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:31:23 PM #
Already got rid of my M515 in favor of an Ipaq 3970. The Palm OS 5 design philosohpy "it's the same, only faster" doesn't appeal to me. The Palm OS and built-in apps haven't improved significantly since the original Palm, however many years ago that was.
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:51:18 PM #
...Doesn't get it.

No worries, AOL suits some just fine as well ;-)

RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:46:00 PM #
ok if you are using an ipaq and you like it, fine with me.
That tells us that you use super-sized, ultra heavy duty pockets in order to be able to carry that huge and heavy laptop wannabe (palm couldn't be also).
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:52:09 PM #
I wonder what is an iPAQ user doing on PALM infocenter... wanna come back don't ya
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:53:30 PM #
I disagree with the iPAQ dude: how can you say that apps haven't developed? did you have Documents to go five years ago? action names in color? AncientRed? Monopoly?
Besides Microsoft had to change the name of its OS in order to forget the disastrous results of the WinCE. As a matter of fact, recently there are lots of comments on the 200mhz chip failure in PPC.
Anyway, I respect your choice.
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:04:44 PM #
And So Sony drives the final nail in Handera and Handsprings coffin. And good riddence, LOL
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:58:13 PM #
Yes.. because ALL the other iterations before of Sony devices surely killed the other companies... I mean, EVERYBODY has to spend $600 on these devices because they are the best. If you don't have the money you don't DESERVE to have ANYTHING other than a Sony. If you want a consistent form factor or something other than a CF and MS slot YOU ARE A BAD PERSON. Is that what you're getting at? If we don't like Sony we're wrong?
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
Jeff-Russell @ 9/25/2002 7:56:55 PM #
I like the features of many of the Sony devices, but I would like to point out one thing:

When it was leaked out that Palm had the new Tungsten to come out, many Sony fans were flaming the item, and one of the greatest flames was about the 16MB memory. At the same time talking about how Sony innovates. There still seems to be this attitude, but the notice on the new Sony OS5 devices are the same as the NR series of today, but with OS5 and ARM. Don't get me wrong, Sony has made many great strides, especially with multimedia over the Palm, but now we can see that they have taken pause.

RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:20:33 PM #
huh one of those Sony fans apologize to us post .. LoL ...

I am sorry some stupid troll said your Tungsten T is a POS, on another thought, hmm .... Get a LIFE

Dungsten already outdated.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:24:12 PM #
Oh my! Those clowns at Palm need to get their act together. Sliding cover vs. 640X480 digital cam.


RE: Dungsten already outdated.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:28:00 PM #
I love it - I think my new name is catching on! I hope it gets back to Benahmou back in his Ivory Tower!!!
I could puke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:32:24 PM #
Mommy moomy, I want this one!

I guess all you NR70 owners were just lab rats after all.

Looks like no Clue to me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:15:24 AM #
What does it matter which device one uses, its the operating system that makes these PDA's. Why the pissing contest? Competition does funny things; this could be the PPC people disguised as Sony Clie users. I find it hard to believe that someone would be so insecure about their choice that they would have to RUN DOWN other hardware with like operating systems. Get a life.
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:06:16 AM #
That's why I'm gonna wait for the Handera OS 5.0 machine to come out. Bucause of all the licensees they are the only one who have truly inovated and moved the product forward with any consistency.

First CF card Slot
First to support extended memory
First QVGA screen
ONLY dual slot machine

Handera
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:58:22 AM #
Hoping that Handera will not live in its own world and make its own quirky decisions. The TRGPro was truly ahead of all other palms at the time. Not going colour with the Handera and choosing QVGA was a bad mistake. I actually suggested 320x480 with virtual grafitti even before Sony came out with 320x320. It was the obvious step forward with easy backward compatibility. I am hoping Handera will push the envelope once again with even greater hires - why stop at half VGA - go further - push up the resolution - but please stay in some multiple of 160 to keep easy backward compatibility. Probably 480x720 will be the limits of visibility without a magnifier or use VGA 640x480 with a shorter virtual grafitti area of 480x160 (still a quarter of the screen length). Package it with some trendy natural handwriting recognition aka Newton and it will be a major hit. If it has built in bluetooth and two expansion ports - major hit. MP3 recording and playback please with earphone jack with or without remote. I could go on - but would Handera hear? Sony heard.
Handera
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:31:55 AM #
Removable clip on Lithium batteries of various sizes/capacities with optional separate charger.
Handera
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:36:41 AM #
Small internal lithium charged by clip on in case of accidental removal of clip on. Option to set backup to run a backup onto CF/SDMMC should the battery clip on come off.

People can choose the slimness or thickness of their Handera based on the clip on they purchase.

Make sure the mic and speaker are in the right configuration for a phone, in case the CF phone comes out. Relying on the ear buds is too cumbersome.

RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:50:13 AM #
> Anyone want to be a slightly used m515????
No, I want to be a brand new NX-90 ;)))
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:57:08 PM #
Handera is too busy tipping cows in Iowa to know WTF is going on with cutting edge devices.

One hit wonders that is all they ever were and will be. It is insulting that Palm still lists them as licensees, idiots could not even afford to pony up for OS4.0

RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:06:29 PM #
> No, I want to be a brand new NX-90 ;)))

Ahhhh, what a life! Actually, make that "Get a life!!!"

RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 5:12:01 PM #
"ONLY dual slot"

Actually the Alphasmart Dana has two SD slots.

And in another post:

"One hit wonders that is all they ever were and will be. It is insulting that Palm still lists them as licensees, idiots could not even afford to pony up for OS4.0"

Oh aren't you a clever boy. Amazing how it'll still do stuff your Clie can't. And amazing how it's features creep into devices by the other licensees. Amazing how other PalmOS licensees have HandEra do work on some aspects of their products.

Maybe you're insulted by the other licensees not putting out a flurry of devices. Symbol, AlphaSmart, and Garmin.

Grow up.

Handera gone
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 3:35:14 AM #
Those fantasizing about the next generation of Handera devices will only get to use it in their dreams. Information has perviously been posted on the web about color HE prototype more than a year ago, but the company reportedly decided not to pursue the project further. Sources cited high manufacturing costs - a small company in Idaho can't compete with the big boys like Sony. While this information was unofficial, reliable pictures came out, along with people who used the prototype. Moreover, simply notice how little Handera's web site and product offering has changed over the last year, and you'll realize they're not playing anymore. Sorry...
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 7:39:29 AM #
Forget HandEra they're WELL behind the times and simply can't catch up. Adios!

Sony blew it in several areas due to their corporate Betamax mentality -- the CF is stupidly limited to Sony proprietary stuff and they haven't really done antything about their small Mem Sticks. They need to boost external storage and CF would have done wonders -- they could then take the decade they need to make a 256 MB mem stick without looking stupid.

At least Palm uses SD -- you can get 512 MB NOW not in some hazy timeline.

The good thing is that someone will probably hack the crap out of the worthless CF slot so CF memory cards can be used in them. If this occurs, I'll probably pick the NX up in 3 months when it's disontinued and save myself $100.

RE: Adios Handera
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 10:21:50 AM #
I agree, they are not going to get out THEY GOT OUT almost ayear ago and left the morons who purchased that abortion known as a 330 holding the bag. What I find funny is so many of these idiots are still so blind that they keep hoping for a color version. You should read the crap these guys post on the Yahoo groups. These guys are the true geeks of the PDA industry hook line and sinker. LOL
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 11:04:57 AM #
Yawn. HandEra is working on OS 5 stuff now. That was reported here this year, and I have my own sources. Even their 330 can do things this NX beast can't do.

I can't believe that Sony is so stuck in their proprietary mentality that they don't realize real CF support will be on Palm OS 5 soon from other companies.

RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 11:47:57 AM #
Cool,
So when can we expect a Handera OS 5 product ?
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 3:15:15 PM #
I keep hearing about this OS 5 based Handera but I think it is a load of crap. They could not pony up for OS4.0 or color what has changed that they can afford to release an OS 5 machine? Nothing, actually they are more guaranteed an abortion since Sony has outstanding machines up coming for PAlmOS and PPC machines are falling in price every day. What do a bunch of hick in Iowa bring to the table anymore? CF, who cares MS or SD will do same thing. Hig Res, so what all new PDAs have high res. WireLEss big deal been done. And how many can they sell 1 ? 100? 1000? BFD not enough for developers to give a **** about them. Plus many are still pissed over OS4 fiasco.

THEY ARE DEAD!!!

RE: OS 5.0 Handera is vaporware
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 10:56:22 PM #
I tend to agree the so called OS 5.0 Handera is a load of crap or very wishful thinking by the people who bought ito it and are now stuck with their obsolete devices.

R.I.P. Handera

You know...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 12:02:00 AM #
...what's funny? When the HE 330 first came out, all the Sony apologists were screaming, "BRICK!! BRICK!!" at the top of their lungs.

Well, let's do a little comparison here, shall we?

330: 5.4oz (Li-ion battery)
330: 5.9oz (AAA batteries)
NR70: 7.0oz
NX70: 8.0oz

If the 330 is a brick, than the N_70 series is a dumpster.

RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 10:01:23 AM #
I didn't screm brick I screamed POS! NO OS4.0, companies website has no updates since JULY, VFS support and screen API's never properly addressed, no suppoert for 3rd party vendors, NO COLOR and improperly desighned SD slot.

HANDERA SUCKED, SUCKS AND IS GONE GET OVER IT. TRG may have done ome good things but Handera was/is a joke. And FYI thank SAMSUNG for the 330 not the dip****s in IOWA.

RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 10:14:38 AM #
please stop commenting on Handera on THIS thread. This is the DUNGSTEN thread. NOT a place to bash Handera. THANK YOU.
RE: Handera bashers
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 6:08:44 PM #
Where is the thread to bash Handera?
RE: SWEET. Looks like no Dungsten for me!
fpeeters @ 10/23/2002 10:21:40 AM #
I now have a Visor Prism and am looking to update...

The Dungsten didn't appeal to me, the NR70V had my full attention, and so does the NX70V...

However 1 thing bothers me about the NX: It has a ROM, not Flash! (unlike the NR which does have flash!)

So it can not be upgraded to PalmOS 5.x or 6 later on, which is when the fun would start to allow 'native' apps to run outside the emulator! :-/

Ah well... Lotsa pondering to do!

quake97

quake97 @ 9/25/2002 4:30:37 PM #
F-Intel. :)

RE: quake97
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:54:58 PM #
I love INTC. Great, innovative, hard-driving company! I'm glad Sony chose INTC!

Games

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:44:22 PM #
Now lets see the new games for the Palm develop! (And emulators!)
RE: Games
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:30:18 PM #
YEEES Games! I can't wait. Hexacto-Baseball Addict+Lemonade Inc. For Palm hi-res! Can't wait!
RE: Games
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:30:50 PM #
Yeah, and I heard that Gambit Studios is developing an emulator for GBA and others! It's starting to sound exciting!
RE: Games
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 7:27:33 PM #
Oh wow, Baseball Addict for Palm OS, looking forward to it!
RE: Games
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:26:46 PM #
How about MAME? Can a tech savvy person emulate MAME and bring the classics to the Palm? I would love to see that. Of course, I would also like to see a usable D pad with multiple button input to go along with all of this.
RE: Games
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:11:55 PM #
you have to rewrite the operating system first. OS5.0 is kinda ehrrr... not ready for Mame.
RE: Games
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:13:07 PM #
People who think that the OS itself is gonna limit game development are absolutely wrong...

Remember the early days of Palm when things like grayscale, etc. weren't available through the OS? Did that stop game developers? Of course not!

Sure it may be more difficult but I really doubt that it will be all that long before game developers are shipping ARM-centric apps rather than just 68k apps with "armlets" - even though the OS isn't "designed" for it.

MAME is certainly a possibility.

DA-BOMB.SONY.COM

sandbuck @ 9/25/2002 4:41:14 PM #
Sony picked the 400Mhz max, power sipping Xscale line right out of the gate. Compare this to Palm's choice of TI's chip. As Palm continues to abdicate the leading edge, Sony happily snaps up the hearts, minds, and big bucks of the power user / enthusiast. Palm could have done a few things differently with the Tung-in-cheek and it could have served both enthusiast AND the "enterprise". What a shame.

==========-R.I.P.-==============

Now back to Sony, the fully ARMed OS 5 player....

What are the odds of the Sony NX series using the 200 vs 400 Mhz chip with these first models?

Do they plan to bring ARM to the T-series (whose form-factor I prefer)?

RE: DA-BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:04:47 PM #
I disagree somewhat.

Sony is missing the boat on wireless connectivity and battery life and still doesn't get it on expansion. Even the CF slot will be Sony proprietary crap if this rumor is true. A third slot to power along with a video camera? They better crank the battery rating way up for this one. 400MHz XScale is nice but if it is exactly like the NR series you still would not have a gamepad. TI's processor includes a separate 200MHz DSP chip for video/audio/etc. Given the XScale's less than stellar performance in the PPC world, I'm willing to bet if it outperforms the TI solution, it won't be by much.

RE: DA-BOMB.SONY.COM
sandbuck @ 9/25/2002 5:34:10 PM #
The Xscale's performance in the PPC is due to the OS, not the chip. There's an article with links on this topic somewhere on PIC.

RE: DA-BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:34:21 PM #
Patience, gang. We've seen the initial entre' from palm with each sub-brand - let's see what follows. I still prefer the m-series form factor (un-geek that I am, with wife, two kids, hh income 6 figs), and I suspect Palm's got me a bit more in mind than the PIC power user.
RE: DA-BOMB.SONY.COM
quake97 @ 9/26/2002 2:40:50 PM #
I guess all of you Sony NR/NX supports like to carry bricks around. Those freaking things are huge! Who needs a digital camera with such pathetic specs anyway!? Go buy a real one that's much better and that you'll actually use. I like the idea of the Tungsten, I'm glad Palm is coming back.

Joe

RE: DA-BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:45:49 PM #
Joe...

I had some of the same thoughts before I got my NR70v... it was the largest handheld id had in a while, and the camera was subpar... but the screen hooked me. In hindsight its the most significant new handheld ive used in 10 years... I use the hell out of the camera for all kinds of things... sure its not stellar quality... but its not supposed to be... its quick and dirty images for situations when you find yourself wanting a pic of something... in future Clie models I could do without the keyboard (havent used it yet as the on screen ones better) and even the swivel/flip design... but they gotta keep that HiRes+ screen and the camera!

RE: DA-BOMB.SONY.COM
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/30/2002 10:32:30 AM #
I agree. The camera isn't a replacement for a real digital camera, it's there so you can get pictures of things you wouldn't have gotten at all before because you didn't have a camera. It's great!

an arm can encode mpeg4 in real time?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:54:16 PM #
I doubt it can at the full 640x400 resolution. I might be wrong but I think this Clie must have a custom chip for such a task.
RE: an arm can encode mpeg4 in real time?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 11:13:52 PM #
Ever think that a separate processor may handle the work?

Your comment is like if somebody said "how can a 33Mhz dragonball play MP3s". Never mind that it does it in the background and with no slow down to foreground apps.

RE: an arm can encode mpeg4 in real time?
popko @ 9/26/2002 3:49:15 AM #
"Your comment is like if somebody said "how can a 33Mhz dragonball play MP3s". Never mind that it does it in the background and with no slow down to foreground apps."

In agreement with what you are pointing out. But anyone who has a Clie XXXX / Acer SXX can tell you that playing MP3s in the background does slow the whole thing down even when another DSP is doing the decoding.

RE: an arm can encode mpeg4 in real time?
IanJD @ 9/26/2002 6:42:39 AM #
The worst slow-down I've had listening to MP3s on the NR70V is a fraction of a second pause when something like Quicksheet scans the memory stick; I have worse problems with doing something processor intensive on my PC.

480x320 Virtual Grafitti in OS5?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 4:56:31 PM #
Since PalmSource stated Sony has agreed to adopt the OS5 graphics API (at the PalmSource conference Feb, 2002), does this mean OS5 supports Virtual Grafitti?
RE: 480x320 Virtual Grafitti in OS5?
Ed @ 9/25/2002 5:02:23 PM #
I would guess Sony did the same sort of thing they did with OS 4: they took the OS 5 API and modified it to support virtual Graffiti. They would have to do something like this because PalmSource has made it clear there is no support for virtual Graffiti built into OS 5. I guess I'll have to start calling this double density+.

---
News Editor

Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....

Token User @ 9/25/2002 5:06:33 PM #
Since this is an inventory system, the only information available besides the model number is the amount of RAM, which is 16 MB

Sorry. Just had to pick up on this. When the Tungsten/T was announced with 16MB, the Sony trolls were slamming that decision by Palm.

It'll be interesting to see the NX70 head to head with the Tungsten/T ...

Another rumored 16 Megs of RAM?
Fammy @ 9/25/2002 5:10:42 PM #
This is yet the second rumor of an OS5 machine with only 16 megs of RAM. I'm surprised Sony would skimp out. Maybe the companies are hold something back for later models. If it indeed has 16 Megs and not more, I'm guess it'll use the slower processor.

_____
Fammy
RE: Another rumored 16 Megs of RAM?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:14:00 PM #
I guess I'm kind of a middle-ground kind of person on this issue. 16meg is plenty, but it sure looks paltry on a comparison grid compared to 128meg of some new iPaq or other up and coming PocketPC.

Why do I think 16meg is plenty, for *this generation*?

-Applications are small, they go in RAM. Data and media go on the storage card, they are large.

-Power consumption is lower with less RAM.

I haven't ever been presented a case where "You can't do X, Y, or Z because your Palm /only/ has 16 meg of RAM." When that can happen, then it is time to bump up.

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:17:38 PM #
I agree!!! For the last several days, I all read on PIC is palm has too little ram... this sucks.... how can I possbily use a device with only 16 megs of ram blah blah... where all of these people now (both of them).

One the units is rumored to have video capabilities... how in the the name of god is 16 megs of ram sufficient for that!!

I'm not pro-palm or anti-sony but I really like to know why htere is 100+ posts bitching about this???

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
somas1 @ 9/25/2002 5:29:02 PM #
The inane bitching about 16 MB in the Tungsten is not countered by bitching here. I for one am pleased to see that these models use 16 MB and not 64 MB. This is Palm Os not PPC. If I want bloated programs I will use Windows or PPC. The fact that Palm apps are so efficient has always been asthetically pleasing to me. A palm with 64 MB would probably inspire lazy developers to produce Avant-go type software. If this unit records video it better do so straight to a memory card or this feature is useless as would be voice recording mp3's etc. Tell me one thing that a PPC's 32 MB can do that a comparably priced Palm's 8 MB can't. (besides loading mp3's into ram instead of a storage card)

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
robrecht @ 9/25/2002 5:29:26 PM #
If what people have been saying about power consumption is true, I think SONY made the right move not to use more than 16MB of memory. Now let's hope SONY can quickly catch up to SD in the maximum size of their memory sticks.

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:30:51 PM #
Anyone who is high-end enough to buy and use the video capture feature of a PDA is also high-end enough to have a large expansion card.

In my mind, people would rather have the choice of being able to pay $600 for their high-end PDA without all the extra memory if they're not gonna use it, rather than forcing a $700-$750 price point down everyone's throats that just want to read some eBooks on a nice pretty screen.

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
dreadlock9 @ 9/25/2002 5:32:09 PM #
Consider that if you are storing graphics on your PDA, since now Palm has a high density mode, a high density bitmap (uncompressed) will take 4x more RAM. Games with high density graphics will be bigger than the old games. The same thing goes for your sketches .The built in notepad is only B&W and uses compression, but a color paint program will use much more space for paintings. I am developing a color / B&W paint program called SproutPaint, I haven't yet upgraded it to high density mode. When I do I'll probably run into some memory issues, so I really think they should've included more than 16M.

www.sproutworks.com

YOU CAN'T SYNC FROM A CARD
Taqi @ 9/25/2002 5:44:10 PM #
Which is why 16MB is useless for databases that I would love to sync but can't keep and modify when I need to because there is no memory for running other apps......

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:45:00 PM #
I think both should have added more RAM. I agree that it might not be necessary from a technical standpoint but it would be a great way to separate OS 5 handhelds from OS 4 ones. If Sony wants people to upgrade their NR70V to the NX70V, twice as much RAM would help a lot.

The only bright side I see in this is the thought of the dismay I just know is on the face of all the hard core Sony fans who wrote messages saying Palm was ***ed up for putting in 16MB and saying that Sony would never, never do this. Some apologies would be appropriate right now.

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
somas1 @ 9/25/2002 5:53:10 PM #
"YOU CAN'T SYNC FROM A CARD
Posted by: Taqi @ 9/25/2002 5:44:10 PM

Which is why 16MB is useless for databases that I would love to sync but can't keep and modify when I need to because there is no memory for running other apps......"

Learn how to use Powerrun

What, only 16 MB RAM
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:57:45 PM #
Strange how 16 MB RAM seems to be quite enough when put in Sony branded handheld. Look at latest info about Tungsten and you will find that many of over 400 comments were about Palm being soo crappy and insane for putting only 16 MB of RAM in it. I guess that most of the people making comments are pro Sony and very very anti Palm. Lets see how the both handhelds perform in the real life before we count out any of them. And give us more mature discussion please, I work with low aged children and you sound no better then them when arguing about your toys. :-)
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:04:21 PM #
In a thread last week under the Tungsten T discussion, some developer mentioned that the current OS 5 emulator for developers, only allows them to set a maximum of 16 MB of RAM for the emulated Palm. It is possible that the reason both the Palm and Sony rumored devices only offer 16 MB of RAM is that OS 5 only supports that much. We may have to wait until the point release (OS 5.1 or something) to get Palm based handhelds that can address more than 16MB.
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:07:39 PM #
> is Palm Os not PPC. If I want bloated programs I will use Windows or PPC.

Sheer ignorance. An MP3 file, Audible book, or database would be the same size on a PocketPC or Palm. Ever use Tomeraider? Ever use Audible? Ever listen to an MP3?

If you're into the Zen of Palm shtick then stick with the OS 4 Palms. You're clearly not in the target segment for OS 5 Palms.

More memory is clearly better and with memory prices so low, it's obvious that the consumers are getting shafted.

We're being asked to pay premium prices and we're not even getting a significant memory upgrade. Unless there is a technical reason which Palm isn't telling us, a 32 to 64 MB of internal RAM would be appropriate for the price$$.

RE: What, only 16 MB RAM
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:07:53 PM #
The CF Slot more than well makes up for it, along with the memory stick for additional memory :)
Also, 16mb is better for the battery performance. More RAM=More battery drain.
Seems like you dont know anything more than the kids that you work with :)
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
bobes @ 9/25/2002 6:12:17 PM #
Is 16 MB a limit due to 'emulation' of OS4? Why are the new high ends still only 16MBs?

RE: What, only 16 MB RAM
IanJD @ 9/25/2002 6:16:03 PM #
As an NR70V owner I am disappointed they didn't double the memory to 32Mb and add Bluetooth; show me something to justify paying out again. With the space they're wasting with the CF slot they could double the battery capacity, too. I know this is aimed at the high end of the market, but even amongst power users, do that many people want to use 802.11 in their PDA?

BTW I was wondering how they'd fit the CF slot into the current case without the expense of redesigning it, anyone think that the battery push-out on the left of the case just below the hold slider is just about the right size?

RE: What, only 16 MB RAM
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:20:15 PM #
I bought a 128 Meg memory stick the other day... under $50 new. That's cheaper than the additional amount they'd have to charge for a 64 MB handheld, and a memory stick doesn't affect battery life on standby.

I might still go for the Tungsten T for my next handheld though. I like my T615C, but would prefer something slightly smaller, even if it has the slower OMAP processor.

Ed
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:23:02 PM #
Are you sure there is no limit on RAM in Palm OS 5 devices
AND
What is the "release" date of Palm OS 6?
RE: What, only 16 MB RAM
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:25:57 PM #
To the guys who wrote about me not knowing more than the kids I work with:
Read the whole text and look up in the dictionary word sarcastic. I am well aware of the battery lifetime relation to ammount of RAM, I was just reflecting on so may negative postings written about memory size in Tungsten before people even knew anything about new Sony handhelds.
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
somas1 @ 9/25/2002 7:13:04 PM #
"Sheer ignorance. An MP3 file, Audible book, or database would be the same size on a PocketPC or Palm. Ever use Tomeraider? Ever use Audible? Ever listen to an MP3?"

Did you read my post? MP3s, Audible books and large databases belong on a card not in RAM. I have 250 MB of data that I use constantly. Using your inane logic I need a Palm with at least 300 MB to be happy.

PS The 32 and 64 MB found on PPCs are not for mp3s and audible books. It is hard to use a PPC without filling up 60 MB. PPC users use storage cards for large files.

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 7:29:10 PM #
"The only bright side I see in this is the thought of the dismay I just know is on the face of all the hard core Sony fans who wrote messages saying Palm was ***ed up for putting in 16MB and saying that Sony would never, never do this. Some apologies would be appropriate right now."

LoL Get a Life ...

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:50:20 PM #
LOL

I would've loved to see the impression on the faces of all the little sony defenders when they read this news. WHAT A JOKE.

A CF card slot that doesn't let you use CF storage, How pathetic is that. Sony should be ashamed of themselves. That's like getting a nice, new four door car but two of the doors are just dummy doors and can't be used. This is how ridiculous it is for Sony to put that kind of restriction on a cf slot.

I can't wait for my Palm Tungsten T.

RE: What a disappointment !!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:53:14 PM #
hay .. now they got 2 expansion slot one for netwrok conenction one for memory card ... pretty nice, but look at your tungent or whatever u call it, one expansion slot ... hmm , LoL .. POS is still POS
RE: What a disappointment !!!!
iebnn @ 9/25/2002 10:05:17 PM #
Haha, enjoy your Palm piece of "Crap" too with just 16MB as well. This has been established: MP3s and videos are to be stored on external memory cards (MemStick.)

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:20:24 PM #
Mpeg or no Mpeg. CF or no CF. MS or no MS. all this doesn't matter because they only put 16mb of ram. That's just not enough anymore. where's all the new stuff that's supposed to be coming from sony. Instead they just rehash a weird design adding a faster processor that will suck up battery faster than you can say CLEEEEEYYYYEEAAAHHH.
where are the Anti-palm folks?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:24:39 PM #
Where are all the people that criticized the Tungsten T to death for only having 16mb of ram?

I miss all the insightfull commentary on how terrible palm is for only including 16 mb of ram. While sony the superior has everything in it. well apparently not.

GO PALM GO!

RE: where are the Anti-palm folks?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 11:01:15 PM #
You know the routine:

Palm does it = Death to Palm
Sony does it = Joy to the world!

Palm adds new OS, speed, built in wireless, dpad, headphone jack, speaker, microphone.

=IT'S NOT ENOUGH INNOVATION!

Sony adds new OS, speed, and umm, nothing else.

=WHAT INNOVATION!

RE: where are the Anti-palm folks?
Jeff-Russell @ 9/25/2002 11:09:21 PM #
Yes, and when we point out this obvious faux pas, the response is a highly intellectual "Get a life"

:)

I personally have an m505, am very happy with it, but I do aspire to have one of the Sony's just for the multi-media capability. Still keep the m505 for the productivity. They both have their pros/cons.

Regards,

Jeff

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:22:38 AM #
you forgot to mention that the last version of this Clie already got all the features on your soon to be released tungent or whatever the name is, except Bluetooth builtin. but on top of that sony have HiRes + Virtual Grafitti, bigger screen, builtin keyboard, a CF slot for real ethernet/802.11 wireless LAN Access (instead of some bluetooth which is only good for hotsync) AND the sony device is actually going to be avaliable BEFORE THE PALM'S OWN TUNGENT DEVICE !!!!
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:52:10 AM #
It's interesting, is the anouncement about the 16 megs direct from Sony...or could it be a mistake?? Or misleading?? It's happend before. I only saw one mention of it and everyone is going nuts, kind of a funny read though:)
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:13:48 AM #
I got well over 150 Games on my SM Memplug on my Visor. They take up about 30MB. I also have 1.5MB free on board with 45 or so programs. If you need more than that, and MUST have it in the RAM, something is wrong. Besides no Palm devices play Mp3s directly off of the RAM for a reason, it's a waste of space.
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:02:36 AM #
That's why I'm gonna wait for the Handera OS 5.0 machine to come out. Bucause of all the licensees they are the only one who have truly inovated and moved the product forward with any consistency.

First CF card Slot
First to support extended memory
First QVGA screen
ONLY dual slot machine

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:31:34 PM #
How can you say Sony hasn't innovated at least as consistently as HandEra?

-First PalmOS device to have real stereo audio support

-First PalmOS device to have a video accelerator

-First PalmOS device to have a clear 16 bit color hi-res screen

-First PalmOS device to have hardware jpeg decoding

-First PalmOS device to ship with real remote control setup

-First PalmOS device to ship with a flipscreen

-First PalmOS device to ship with a builtin camera

-First PalmOS device to really support expansion

....and this is not counting their newest effort.

32MB RAM will be standard for ALL new Oct 2002 OS5 Devices
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:06:00 PM #
This is what I believe. They always double the RAM in the "New" units. I will be SHOCKED if the NX is less than 32MB.
RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
Bartman007 @ 9/26/2002 4:51:57 PM #
> First handheld to really support expansion...
Ummmm..... You must be forgetting the TRG Pro with it's CF slot. You must be forgetting the whole Visor line with their Springboard port. If that's not expansion I don't know what is.

If you really want to get technical, there was a memory expansion slot in the Palm IIIx (which you can outfit with a SmartMedia slot)

If you really really, want to get technical, you could upgrade the Palm Pilots (either 1000 and 5000 or Personal and Professional) with a card that had 2 megs or ram, an IR port, and OS 3.0
I am probably wrong on the last point, but I know the first two are right

Peace,
Bartman007

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 5:58:35 PM #
Let me clarify that statement, and I could be wrong.

What I mean by "First PalmOS device to support real expansion" is that I can see the expansion area as another drive in Windows, that I can drag and drop files to without jumping through any other hoops.

Maybe a Handera or Handspring did that before, but I didn't think so.

I wouldn't dare claim Sony was the first with any kind of on-device expansion.... :)

I'm sure there's more to that above list, it was just off the top of my head...

RE: Only 16MB of Memory! What a piece of ....
useybird @ 9/28/2002 10:50:53 PM #
If Only Sony and all the other Palms used MRAM(Magnetic RAM) instead of Electronic RAM, then there would be virtually no power consumption while on standby (or "off" as I like to call it) and they would all have Longer Battery life, higher capacity, cheaper chips, and the power consumption rate of flash memory. And to top it all off, if your battery runs out, every thing'll be safe (you might have to set the time.) If all of you are looking at me like I'm crazy, there really is such thing as MRAM. It is being developed now and should be ready some day.

-------------
Burning Desire: The want or need for something great.
Burning THE Zire: A fun recreational activity involving setting Palm's new crappy handheld ablaze.

Now if it was named nXt

nXt @ 9/25/2002 5:10:14 PM #
Now, if it was named the NXT series, Then it'll be perfect! :)

nXt's Clie Club
Place To Be For Sony Clie Discussion
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nxtclieclub
RE: Now if it was named nXt
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:14:28 PM #
I heard a rumor that there is a thin version without the CF slot...to be named Sony Clie nXt! ;p

nonclamshell option, please

robrecht @ 9/25/2002 5:31:53 PM #
I hope SONY quickly offers these features (w/o camera) in a more traditional form factor (nonclamshell option, please)

I'd also like a voice recorder and a CF slot that would accept a POTS modem, a wireless modem, as well as other CF peripherals. And let's get a higher capacity memory stick.

Thanks, Robrecht

RE: nonclamshell option, please
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:49:28 PM #
agreed
RE: nonclamshell option, please
IanJD @ 9/26/2002 6:19:35 AM #
I like my NR70V, but I do have concerns about its mechanical longevity - it was only a couple of months before I had to take it apart to tighten up the hinge. The work of ten minutes, but a couple of weeks if I'd gone the route of sending it back to Sony. The Palm V/Vx/m505/m515s I had for longer with no mechanical problems, because of the mechanical design simplicity.

As for the NX/R, you wouldn't get a much thinner PDA by putting the same components into a single case, enough to install a metal flip cover, though, and that would be a more robust unit.


RE: nonclamshell option, please
Rolando @ 9/26/2002 9:10:25 AM #
I agree. I like virtually everything about these except the clamshell. I just don't want that keyboard and the complexity.

Now, if my wife was to get one, she'd probably opt for the keyboard...

RE: nonclamshell option, please
ehanneken @ 9/26/2002 1:14:06 PM #
I like keyboards, but I wish Sony's were more Revo-like.

RE: nonclamshell option, please
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:06:46 PM #
After using Graffiti for years, I'm fairly quick with it. And I don't want a device with an attached keyboard. (One can always attach one...)


Meanwhile, I DO like the idea of an integrated camera.

So, do we have any news from Sony on a keyboardless form factor?

ECB

RE: nonclamshell option, please
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 7:52:39 AM #
Frankly, the clamshell is one of THE reasons I bought the NR-70. I'm sick of cases wich double the bulk of the unit.

Sony will eventually introduce a 320x 480 OS5 T-series so don't fret i'ts only a matter of a month or two!

Battery life

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:33:48 PM #
What do think about battery life ?
RE: Battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:14:15 PM #
I think I the more the better, NEXT!

-----
I'll make you fun size!

RE: Battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 7:08:02 PM #
25-30 minutes
RE: Battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 7:44:13 PM #
11-16 hours
RE: Battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:17:24 PM #
2 hours at best. And it only has 16mb of ram to top it all off.. what a nightmare.
RE: Battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:47:30 AM #
75% to 100% more than the battery life of an 400MHz iPaq.

Or, how they will put in the ads, "battery lasts for weeks on typical* use"

* "actual battery life may vary depending on your particular usage"

RE: Battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:33:08 PM #
I think the battery will, on average, last an average amount of time when used by an average consumer under average conditions.

What I am trying to say is... generally the general consumer can generally expect an average battery life, generally.

In more precise terms, I would usually expect that the usual handheld would usually get the usual battery life under usual conditions. But I can usually expect less average battery life when I use an average 802.11b card, generally.

Truth be told, I don't know what kind of battery life it can handle. If my dad's Jornada is any indication, I'm guessing around 4-5. If my Palm IIIc was any indication, I would guess 10-15 hours. But, as was indicated above, actuall battery usage will vary, usually.

RE: Battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/29/2002 11:38:37 AM #
Quoted from the "classified" PDF file bouncing here and there on the net, and starting all the rumors:

"Battery Life: Approx. 10 days. *6"

Oh joy! Yeah, but let me quote "*6" footnote:


"*6: Based on 30 minutes of use per day with backlights set OFF. Actual battery life varies depending on the temperature
and conditions of use.."

Well, 30 x 10 = 300 minutes, 300 / 60 = 5 hours.

5 hours with backlight OFF? Even PocketPCs can do better... Hope this is wrong, but the rest of the specs in the same file seems to be consistent.

Any comment?

No Bluetooth?

IanJD @ 9/25/2002 5:31:32 PM #
That's disappointing, considering how cheap it is, and physically small to integrate compared to a CF slot.

As an NR70V owner, I'm not sure this is enough reason to upgrade yet. Maybe in 6-12 months when processor-hungry apps start appearing, and they upgrade the RAM. If the NX is still around, of course. :-)

Bluetooth !!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:49:29 PM #
I want Bluetooth.
RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 7:42:35 PM #
That really suck. I think Sony still want to sell more Bluetooth memorystick.
RE: No Bluetooth?
ahecht @ 9/25/2002 8:25:44 PM #
You could probably get a bluetooth CF card.

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:56:18 PM #
It's a sad day when you have to spend 600 bid ones on a nice (supposed) top-of-the-line pda and then have to go out an spend an additional 150-200 on a cf or ms bluetooth card. That is un-acceptable. This is why Tungsten T will win. It comes with all the stuff we want. And none of the stuff we don't (such as a video camera? on 16megs? yuch!)
RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:57:59 PM #
and what makes you think there is a driver for that CF bluetooth card just for Sony Clie Nx?
RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:00:49 PM #
and what makes you think everyone wants bluetooth, I for one thing a ethernet card or wireless network card is much more important.

with WiFi you don't even need a phone to get on the internet
with WiFi you don't even need bluetooth to sync your PDA (if palm desktop supports network sync)

And did I tell you that a CF WiFi Card is cheaper than a bluetooth SD Card ??

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:24:42 PM #
Who needs Bluetooth, when you can put a 802.11b CF card?

While I'll be surfing the net using Clie anywhere in my home or other places (cafe, school, etc) where they have the access point, the ones with BT would be stuck with nothing.

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:43:31 AM #
Not sure where you guys live, but as far as I'm aware, Europe and the US don't have nationwide available to all WiFi access.

That is why I want bluetooth. I don't base my travel plans around where I can/can't get WiFi access. Most places do have mobile coverage.

I want to use my PDA to handle my addressbook, and dial the number for me, that can't be done with WiFi.

I don't have a problem with WiFi, and if you can get it as an option then great. I like the idea of internet access in the lounge with the PC upstairs, but Bluetooth as standard would have been nice.

I am waiting to an OS5 device, and was almost sure it would be the NR70 replacement. Not so sure now, might give the Palm another look.

I would still prefer a Clamshell Sony, but adding the cost of a blutooth card, and the lack of higher capacity memory sticks is putting me off. You can now get 512Mb SD cards. I just don't get why Sony still hasn't increased the capacity of Memory Sticks.
Maybe they plan on standardizing on the Duo (with adaptor if required) for memory and full sticks for other devices.

Zuber

(R)BLUETOOTH vs. 802.11 = Apples vs Pears
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:48:26 AM #
You beat me Zuber.

AGAIN: BLUETOOTH vs. 802.11 = Apples vs Pears.

WiFi is great for Networking, but it's also BATTERY SAPPING.

PDA's with 802.11/WiFi drain a lot of battery and may run less then 2 hours.

Bluetooth=PAN=low power=cable replacement (+ automatic synchronization)=mobile

802.11/wifi=LAN=higher power=networking (no automatic synchronization)=not mobile (enough)

see "802.11 NOT the one-size-fits-all wireless technology"
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=41543

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:54:39 AM #
But with Zeroconf TCP/IP will be the ultimate communcation protocol, there is no reason why your scanner, your printer, or even your keyboard is not using ethernet. the same goes for PDA
Bluetooth & 802.11 both backed by BIG co's
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:56:56 AM #
Why do you think companies like Intel, Sony, Microsoft, Palm, IBM, HP, Compaq etc. would back BOTH Bluetooth AND 802.11?

Because you don't need Bluetooth when you have 802.11?

Because they know that Bluetooth and 802.11 are two different technologies for different uses.

Intel for example, said at the IDF that they will introduce Banias in the first half of next year. The chip will include integrated 802.11a, 802.11b and Bluetooth compatibility. With most major PC makers scheduled to offer the chip, wireless connectivity will soon become a standard feature in laptops.

Sony has already Bluetooth integrated in a few products like digital camera's, intertainment robots, home handy viewer, notebooks, memory stick, bluetooth usb dongle, modem adaptor with bluetooth function and has a bluetooth rf module and a new bluetooth radio and baseband module conforming to bluetooth specification v1.1 which has been bluetooth qualified recently (named CXN1000: Power class 2, includes Cambridge Silicon Radio's Bluetooth Stack as component)

....deadline.

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:48:23 AM #
Zuber, I'm totally with you. Wifi is totally useless for me. I don't see the point of sitting ten feet away from my home PC and surfing on my PDA... Duh!! I'd simply surf on my PC.

Bluetooth would give me access to my email on the go. Not to mention using that new browser on OS5 on the road.

If there's no Bluetooth, I'm going to use my cash for something else. Which is disappointing, given that I have been waiting for this for so damned long, so damned anxiously.

PS - why is there this huge problem between Clie users and Palm users? To me its the same OS, and we should be concentrating on beating those bloated PPCs. Besides, competition is what brought us this far, we should be glad that Palm, Handspring etc... are still around.

just my two cents,

badluckboy

needs bluetooth big time
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:39:47 AM #
I can't believe this new Sony model doesn't have Bluetooth built in. As a Mac OS X user (OS X has built in support for bluetooth and a USB BT dongle only costs $50), I'm disappointed. Being able to sync without wires would be really nice. But the main thing is I want to be able to check my email anywhere, via Bluetooth and GPRS with my Ericsson T39! No way am I gonna spend $600 on a Clie plus $200 on a BT MemoryStick. Plus, it would hog up the memory slot! Completely stupid and ridiculous. I'll be trading in my N610C for a Tungsten, baby!
RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:38:31 AM #
Bluetooth has got to the point where its a lot more cheap to put it INSIDE a product instead of add it by pluging an ACCESSORY.

802.11, on the other hand, hasn´t got small & cheap enough to be built-in.

So, if you have an use for Bluetooth, Tungsten is a better and lower cost solution.

If 802.11 is better for you, the Sony (and HandEra) solution is probably as good as you can have now (or, if you have a lot of money, buy Symbol's rugged SPT 1846 with builtin WiFi - and a barcode scanner). Until, that is, someone releases a WiFi Access Point with a builtin Bluetooth radio. If they solve interference problems, it should not add much to the cost.

Just my 0.02 ...


RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:45:03 AM #
> You could probably get a bluetooth CF card.

You aren't reading the article. It says "They will have a CompactFlash slot, though this won't work with memory cards, only Sony-branded 802.11 cards." It didn't say any wireless networking card, just 802.11. This was confirmed by the source of the rumor on ClieSource. Sorry, the only way to add Bluetooth to this is buy the Sony Bluetooth memory stick.

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:11:32 AM #
www.the-gadgeteer.com/pega-cf70-review.html

if and only if there is a Bluetooth card avaliable you should be able to use it, since the CF should work with all "communication" device, unless bluetooth CD is not a communication device. For more info about the CF slot you could click the link above or keep guessing

Where are the Bluetooth phones?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:16:47 AM #
To all of you who laud Bluetooth, let me ask where are the phones you're looking to connect with? To my count, there are only 2: both essentially Ericsson phones. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for it too, but until there are more options avialable for phones, I dont' see how Bluetooth can be realized. At least with Wi-Fi, there are hotspots popping up in major cities and most of us on this site have access to an Ethernet network, where it's easy to set up a Wi-Fi connection. Maybe I'm overestimting the adoption rate, but nevertheless, Wi-Fi is the way to go for now. I'm sure that as more Bluetooth phones become available, Sony will have a new model to accomodate.
RE: No Bluetooth?
Ed @ 9/26/2002 8:37:35 AM #
According to the source from Geek.com, the NX series will only work with one CF card, an 802.11 one called the PEGA-WL100. Maybe if enough people ask Sony will release a Bluetooth one, too.

There is no info yet on what the WL100 will cost.

---
News Editor

RE: No Bluetooth?
IanJD @ 9/26/2002 8:41:04 AM #
At least the high-end Nokia also has Bluetooth as well, although it is only dual band, so not useful in the US.

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:47:34 AM #
There's a small Finnish company that makes Bluetooth enabled phones.. you migh have heard of them, Nokia.

I think at least three of their products have bluetooth built in as do a number of Sony Ericsson's including my tri band T68i.

Motorola make a bluetooth headset so I am pretty sure they have a bluetooth phone.

Of the other majors, that leaves Panasonic and Siemans. Not sure what they are up to as yet.

Remeber that bluetooth is still an emerging product and that initially will only be found in higher end products.

So ummm you were saying Master Troll?

RE: No Bluetooth?
mcseym @ 9/26/2002 9:17:42 AM #
The lack of Bluetooth is a huge disappointment. There is value for use of both technologies, probably by different groups of people. Still, with the integration of BT with so many of the Sony products (and so many sites/forums asking for it) it seems ludicrous they have left it out.

Personally I need BT. I use my Palm when I’m mobile so I connect via IR to a [Bluetooth enabled Sony Ericsson!] GPRS phone. I’m connected when I’m in between meetings, walking down the street, zooming around in taxis and cruising on the underground. WiFi hot spots are just too restrictive. IR is inconvenient and BT would make internet access so much more practical. I have GPRS roaming in many Asian and European countries, which provides far better coverage than WiFi can hope to achieve. I also planned to make BT part of my office and home wireless network.

Now the dilemma, I like Sony specs, the keyboard would be extremely useful, but the killer is the lack of Bluetooth. Sure I can get the BT memory stick but that just adds to the frustration, and the size of the PDA.

Cheers

Matt


RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:13:33 PM #
I aggree no BT is disappointing.

It is true that not anyone wants BT yet.
But Sony should make a version that has BT
built. Hopefylly, in a few months later.
Let users choose. Put a $50 price difference to it
should be fine.

Palm does have the BT built in. Good for them.

ted

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:44:23 PM #
expansys.com lists these bluetooth phones:

GSM Mobile Phones
Nokia 8910 Natural Titanium
Price: $827.22

Nokia 8910 (Import) Natural Titanium
Price: $781.43

Ericsson T68i with MCA-20 camera
Price: $530.70

Nokia 7650
Price: $468.23
In Stock

Blue Monkey Bluetooth Connectivity Pack with Nokia 6310
Price: $466.10
Estimated 4 Days

Blue Monkey Bluetooth Connectivity Pack with Nokia 6310i
Price: $434.55
In Stock

Philips Fisio 820
Price: $405.64
Estimated 4 Days

Sony Ericsson T68i
Price: $391.50
In Stock

Nokia 6310i (Black) Tri-Band with Bluetooth
Price: $352.35
In Stock

Nokia 6310 (Mistral)
Price: $357.05
In Stock

Nokia 6310i (Silver) Tri-Band with Bluetooth
Price: $289.71
In Stock

Ericsson T39 Classic Blue Value Pack
Price: $266.22
Estimated 4 Days


Ericsson T39 Icecap Blue
Price: $248.99
Estimated 4 Days

Ericsson T39 Classic Blue
Price: $217.67
In Stock


Ericsson R520m
Price: $137.03
In Stock


Sony Ericsson P800
Pre-Release

Motorola A820 Tri-band GSM/GPRS
Pre-Release

Nokia 8910 Black
Pre-Release


Nokia 8910 (Import) Black
Pre-Release

Nokia 6650
Pre-Release

Nokia 3650
Pre-Release


RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:44:09 PM #
I don't get it! Maybe its time to go back. After retiring my Vx w/Omnisky. I reluctantly left the wireless world and purchased a N760. I loved it and figured it was only a matter of time before they offered the same thing w/wireless technology. I have finally realized that isn't happening but Bluetooth is. In fact Sony has blue tooth in some of its phones. I thought it was a no brainer, I don't get it. I guess its Tungston. I'm glad it has MP3 because I'm hooked.
Can I switch Carriers with Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:04:28 PM #
I am bummed to see no Bluetooth for Sony. They don't want to be a commodity like PPCs which all want to be iPaqs.

I mean Bluetooth is great for low speed peripherals such as keyboard, mice, headphones and microphones. I buy one and don't have to upgrade. I don't have to worry about cables, IR line-of-sight, or range.

For use with a wireless phone, the latest w-CDMA broadband wireless will run at 384kbps. This is well below 700Kbps rate of Bluetooth.

As for IP connection, WiFi is 11Mbps but limited to Open Access Points, which are going to become rare as security increases on this free ride, or to Pay-to-Use access points. General coverage is non-existent and roaming is horrible when competing Access points overlap. My keyboard peripheral would need an IP stack, security software and a big rechargeable battery. I don't want to pay for that more expensive hardware.

One interesting thing is they both use the open 2.4Ghz frequency set. Is there any chance of these clashing?

So the argument is still:
low drain vs big drain
good speed vs great speed
not-so secure vs IP security
wireless charges vs access point charges

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:12:33 PM #
they also got bluetooth on some of their laptop..... what are you talking about here ... it's just the first device they are announcing right now (not really announced)
Microsoft is joining the Bluetooth Party
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 4:43:18 AM #
"Maybe if enough people ask Sony will release a Bluetooth one, too."

Maybe they are already working on it Ed? Who knows?

"Sony has already Bluetooth integrated in a few products like digital camera's, intertainment robots, home handy viewer, notebooks, memory stick, bluetooth usb dongle, modem adaptor with bluetooth function and has a bluetooth rf module and a new bluetooth radio and baseband module conforming to bluetooth specification v1.1 which has been bluetooth qualified recently (named CXN1000: Power class 2, includes Cambridge Silicon Radio's Bluetooth Stack as component)"

Doesn't hurt that Microsoft is joining the Bluetooth Party for real know.

Windows XP to get Bluetooth support
http://news.com.com/2117-1040-959832.html?tag=ltnc

RE: No Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 8:52:57 AM #
guest i'm gonna wait for the next unit :( Also, this unit proove the only thing that i'm disgusted with Sony : PROPRIETARY. I hope they change their plan about the CF slot+Sony only CF card! But with some of the comments, i guess not : shelling out 600$ for a pda and some are still happy to buy a sony bluetooth card for 150$ when it only cost sony around 5$ to integrate it.... "sigh"

Just my 0.02 ...

RE: No Bluetooth?
useybird @ 9/28/2002 11:06:01 PM #
First thing, My phone company, Cingular, is right now operating on TDMA networks. I visited my local company-owned Cingular store, and the guy there said There is only one Bluetooth phone available today, the Ericsson T60 or whatever, and it doesn't look too good, since I can't get a new phone till June, and GSM won't even be operating until 4thQ 2003. By that time there will be maybe two Black and white screen phones with bluetooth, and still no color phones.
Second, Bluetooth is way overpriced right now, and with no phone to connect to, it's useless. It would be useful if it had WiFi because I'm starting to set up a home network with my laptop that I'm getting tomorrow. The Current Toshiba SD card is disgustingly overpriced at $130, when it costs $5 to make it.
Third, I saw that list of Bluetooth phone and I must say that they are way too expensive, and that those phones will never, and I repeat NEVER, be available in the USA.

-------------
Burning Desire: The want or need for something great.
Burning THE Zire: A fun recreational activity involving setting Palm's new crappy handheld ablaze.
T68: available through AT&T Wireless, Cingular & T- Mobile
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/29/2002 10:33:05 AM #
One of the best Mobile Phones around has Bluetooth integrated....

PC World Spotlight on Wireless Phones

August 2002 We looked at several phones and picked our favorites based on their features, design, and ease of use. When choosing a carrier, be sure to compare calling-plan rates, coverage areas, and wireless services such as Web access, text messaging, and e-mail.

Edited by Grace Aquino

Rank 1. : Sony Ericsson T68
4 out of 5 stars
GSM 900 MHz/1800 MHz/1900 MHz, 3 ounces, 3.9 by 1.9 by 0.8 inches; up to 7 hours talk time, eight days standby (times are vendor specified); available through AT&T Wireless, Cingular Wireless, and T-Mobile.
$200 (with service activation)
866/866-7362
www.sonyericsson.com

This small phone packs such useful features as a joystick navigation button, a color screen displaying six lines of text, world roaming capabilities, and Bluetooth support.

www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,103172,00.asp
www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,102869,00.asp

Bluetooth Mobile Phones (more coming)
www.blueunplugged.com/shop/department.asp?Department=1

Let me say this first.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:37:26 PM #
I am pleased by this rumor and the other evidence mounting that OS 5 is almost here. I question the mental state of anyone who disagrees with me. In addition, if you disagree with my views you are most likely a Nazi.
RE: Let me say this first.
zigzago @ 9/26/2002 9:33:02 AM #
You are wrong! Get a life. LOL. POS. Troll.

Just my 2 cents.

RE: Let me say this first.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:13:35 PM #
You have been meta-trolled my fine furry simple minded friend. Go play with your Ipaq. Good Boy!

Tungsten is beginning to melt ...

Taqi @ 9/25/2002 5:40:08 PM #
I think I will wait for the reviews of both machines but I think I know which machine has just been torpedoed into its Tungsten coffin by the Clever Clies...

My head is in a spin about keyboard, camera, speed, virtual graffiti, loads of pixels, XScale ...

Waiting with bated breath, come on SONY!

PS I am a loyal M505 owner BUT for have had A BITTER experience with this funny cradle problem which is a memory that is rapidly coming to the front of my mind, Mr Benhamou!

RE: Tungsten is beginning to melt ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 7:00:34 PM #
Hee hee tungsten does not melt easily hence its use in lightbulb filaments.

I am sure that Palm chose the name to symbolise a machine that can withstand the community and troll flames.
Of course after a year it will fuse and need to be replaced. ;)

RE: Tungsten is beginning to melt ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:05:41 AM #
I reckon the next Clie will be called the Halogen ;)

Which would you have, a Tungsten or a Halogen ?

Come to think of it, Halogen bulbs consume more power as well.

Zuber

About time!

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 5:46:12 PM #
Man, it has been SOOOO long since we have all sat around and done the "I heard" routine! Man, isn't this fun!

Well...I heard it was going to be only $200!!

Wow, sony does it again! I wonder when OS6 will be out?

How could this possible??

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:09:53 PM #
How would SONY put the latest OS 5 architecture into an old casing -- the NR series case?

No matter it's possible or not (look at the size of Tungsten, I don't think that is too diffucult), it is stepping back in their R&D, why would SONy do this?

RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:15:52 PM #
Maybe because when the nr series came out, everyone was saying this is a perfect body for an os5 handheld? Or maybe because people like the layout

-----
Donde esta Harvey? Harvey esta down!

RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 7:17:04 PM #
NR series case old? I am laughing so hard I am falling off my chair. Sony is waiting for the OS (software) to catch up with the hardware. In other news... I guess the Palm trolls have to be quiet now. They had a good two days of "innovation"...


RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:40:14 PM #
Are you joking? =P
RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:43:15 PM #
The palm trolls just think because Palm changed their good m/v design to some pos dungsten that sony should abandon it's excellent design to something like a doughnut shape handheld.
RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:07:51 PM #
You can't deny that this new thing is nothing but a load of crap. 16 megs of ram. Are you serious. Who cares if it has the same fancy design as the NR70. the bottomline is: THERE'S NOTHING NEW HERE!

Sony comes through again. And these new OS5 devices might last more than 2 months.......

RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:29:56 AM #
You're all trolls
RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 5:35:15 PM #
Mmmm....pda doughnut.
RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 7:58:09 AM #
Nothing new?! Why there's 400 MHz, 640 x 480 camera, and a proprietary, relatively worthless CF slot included! Sheesh!
RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 11:44:33 AM #
> Nothing new?! Why there's 400 MHz ... and a
> proprietary, relatively worthless CF slot included!
> Sheesh!

Hey, Wait!! You forgot that:

It is only **200 MHz**!! That'll SMOKE a 175 Tungsten.

And the MemStick is >Proprietary< TOO!

RE: How could this possible??
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 2:55:57 PM #
"NR series case old?"

No not old, just HUGE.

CF Slot could also be used as additional BAT pack port

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:12:54 PM #
The subject says it all !!!

So the Sony Prop CF enabled Slot might be used to Get the extra watts in to the device and also in WiFi Mode power the radio...i.e. the Plugin Card has its own Bat…

Their is a sled or module that I have seen on the web for a "PALM" or a "PPC" that does just that, in fact adding Sleeves to a Compaq Ipac and the old Jornda did just this if the USAGE needed extra power ...example GSM Sleeve for the Ipaq has an additional Bat build in...Which charges via the device or separately…

Now that would solve the POWER problems that some have been on about

RE: CF Slot could also be used as additional BAT pack port
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:36:14 PM #
that would be a good use for the slot. I agree it's silly to have a CF slot that does not take CF memory.

I would have rather seen Sony use the extra space to either make the unit smaller or to have a larger internal battery.

Crippled?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 6:42:01 PM #
So since Sony makes the MemoryStick they won't let anyone use CF memory? That's not good at all. I'll try one out, but I'm likely to return it because of this since my camera uses CF (most do).
RE: Crippled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 7:00:48 PM #
I hope a developer comes out with a hack that has this functionality.
RE: Crippled?
Token User @ 9/25/2002 7:22:48 PM #
I'd really like to slip my 1GB Microdrive in the CF slot (and watch the battery level drop instantly). I sincerely hope this is a software cripple, not a hardware one.

RE: Crippled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:05:37 PM #
16Mb internal memory without the possibility of additional CF mem. How much mpeg4 can you record at full screen anyway? (say one nano second before the entire system runs out of memory?)

jees....talking about weird design decission.

RE: Crippled?
ahecht @ 9/25/2002 8:30:38 PM #
Yes, but probably a smart business decision. I just hope that this is an issue of drivers, and 3rd party apps can allow it to access cheap CF memory.

Way to go Sony...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:47:50 AM #
"They will have a CompactFlash slot, though this won't work with memory cards, only Sony-branded 802.11 cards."

Sony would have to work really hard to actually make the CF slot not work with memory. I think this clearly shows that MemoryStick isn't about better technology, as Sony claims, it's just a grab for our wallets.

What this means overall is that the NX will have the battery life and size of PocketPC, the baroque software architecture of the Palm, and all the proprietary features Sony can throw at it. Way to go, Sony. I'll stick with my OS4 Palm, thank you very much.

When Sony has figured out how to support standard hardware and Palm offers us something more substantial than an interim solution between OS 4 and OS 6, maybe I'll upgrade.

RE: Crippled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:36:00 AM #
> How much mpeg4 can you record at full screen anyway? (say one nano second
> before the entire system runs out of memory?)

There's no way you'd be able to record any MPEG video to RAM, even if Sony put in 100 GB. PalmOS requires you to store all non Palm format files on an external memory card. That's what the memorystick slot will be for.

RE: Crippled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:39:06 AM #
The article says:
"Sony offers sleds for some of its models that let them use some Compact Flash add-ons but not memory cards. These sleds, however, are available only in Japan."

Has anyone heard of a way to hack these sleds so they can use regular CF cards? This might give us a hint if it is possible to hack the CF slot on the NX series.

RE: Crippled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:54:03 AM #
"probably a smart business decision."

Yeah, just like when IBM used to make laser printers and they decided to artificially segment the market by offering for a lower price the same printer with a hardware hack (they add a chip) to make it slower.

Of course, competitors were able to sell for the same lower price printers as fast as IBM's more expansive models.

Crippling the CF slot to try to sell more Memory Sticks is stupid. May they sould re-brand MS as MemoryMax or BetaMem...

RE: Crippled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:41:20 AM #
lol in case u didn't know although the unpopular of MS among Palm fans ...... it actually has 4 times the market share of SD Card .... LoL
RE: Crippled?
ahecht @ 9/26/2002 12:16:00 PM #
When I said it was smart business, I meant that it will increase sales of both MS and Sony branded CF 802.11 cards. Think about it -- if you don't get the special Sony CF card, you have a large bump on the back, and a large gaping hole, which serve no purpose. I do agree that it's a bit like having an m505 with a perminantly attached thumboard, but you have to buy the actual keys seperatly.


RE: Crippled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 3:16:41 AM #
"lol in case u didn't know although the unpopular of MS among Palm fans ...... it actually has 4 times the market share of SD Card .... LoL"

That´s not too suprising since that figure probably includes the 4 or 8MB MemoryStick that Sony ships with each device they sell (camera, PDA...etc)

RE: Crippled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 8:01:45 AM #
This will make whomever figures out how to hack the CF card to accept CF memory some $$. When it happens, the NX is as good as in my pocket.

It's already been discontinued.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:26:20 PM #
Sorry, hope you got one while they didn't last.
However...


Sony does not rule.

RE: It's already been discontinued.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:32:10 PM #
lol glad you lernt not to use the word obsolete ... if son discontinue this device one can only imagine what are they going to come out next :D if this is discontinued I'll be rpetty excited ...
RE: It's already been discontinued.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:35:34 PM #
I bought mine yesterday! It was already on clearance with ony 1 cent shipping.=)
RE: It's already been discontinued.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:39:44 PM #
Kool they must have the one with 64 megs ram ready for release. I'll get me one.
RE: It's already been discontinued.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:45:57 PM #
What do you need 64 megs for? I've got trouble filling 8.
RE: It's already been discontinued.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 8:51:04 PM #
Anime and other little kid things.
btw: sony guy, you are REALLY late for gym class.
RE: It's already been discontinued.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:11:51 PM #
I heard this "new" NX series will soon be replaced with the AWESOME XX series which feature one more button on the keyboard and a new color carrying case. Only $650 for the XX though....and still 16MB of ram.
RE: It's already been discontinued.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:02:26 AM #
Wait! XX is going to be replace by the new ZZ models, that uses a new cradle connector and a new stylus form.


RE: It's already been discontinued.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 10:22:42 AM #
I'm waiting for the XXX series.

Power

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:09:40 PM #
I think the new palms should use the arm processors power. Most handhelds are purchased by everyday people who, just as they do with computers look for POWER. 300-400 processors, 64 megs of ram and wireless built in. I thought Sony would smash everybody with a Palm handheld that would rival any pocket pc. Palm is definately the way to go but new comers will most likely go for the power.
RE: Power
mentalsrule @ 9/25/2002 11:22:32 PM #
actually the Xscale processor IS an ARM based processor, and is actually faster, and has a better architechure then the OMAP the Tungsten is said to be using... so in fact, this sony Does blow the Tungsten out of the water, and sony did come through yet again...


____________________
Did you know that one time, I, heh, yea.

RE: Power
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:06:10 AM #
oh, that explains why a see glasshour cursors all the time on my old Visor deluxe (16mHz Dragonball, I think)!

It is realy a shame that the PDA market is going MHz-crazy, just like the desktop market. Soon we will be discussing the results of meaningless benchmarks (hey - Sony new XX models can do a lot more NOPs per second them the new Tungstain Y).

One of the great contributions from Palm was the proof that you can build a better product (Palm III, for example) using less power (compare with the original Palm Sized PC).

By the end of the week, what really matters is how responsive the system is and how many times you had to recharge your battery.

If Palm choose wisely (as in the past) the Tungstein will be fast enough and have a better battery life.

RE: Power
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:00:45 AM #
Damn, I would love to have a handheld with 300-400 PROCESSORS in it. I could get rid of that stupid Cray I keep in the basement...

ED is the''update'' source a different person

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:27:06 PM #
Is it someone you know, or is he as anynomous as the original source.
RE: ED is the''update'' source a different person
Ed @ 9/26/2002 6:30:33 AM #
The source for the update is not the same one as the rest of the article and is someone who has given some valuable info to PIC in the past.

---
News Editor

Outrageously cool!

Strider_mt2k @ 9/25/2002 9:39:40 PM #
Look, if these things are as cool as they seem, then I would certainly buy one, had I the cash.
I thought the NR70V was neat.
Sony pushes forward.

strider_mt2k@yahoo.com
RE: What a disappointment !!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:31:38 PM #
Memory stick = Used ONLY by sony = 128mb MAX.

SD/MMC = Used by at least 6 big manufacturers = 256mb and 512mb with bigger capacity on the way.

CF = Used by many = up to 2GB.

The choices are clear!

Sony SUCKS!

Where is the INNOVATION?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 9:58:54 PM #
Sony people are always bragging about their company and how it's constantly pushing out new products with many innovative features and so on.

SO WHERE IS IT? This is the same old stuff with one single change. An X-scale processor from intel. WHOOOP DEE DOOOOOO. I bet the battery life is gonna take one hell of a dump on this thing. I figure under two hours.

And not to mention only 16mb ram, Useless CF card slot, memory stick slot (max on ms is STILL 128 while cf is up to 2GB.)

RE: Where is the INNOVATION?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:04:30 PM #
LoL . Hay Mr Troll
Get a life ....
RE: Where is the INNOVATION?
iebnn @ 9/25/2002 10:08:26 PM #
MPEG4 video.....
640x480 digital camera......
Proprietary CF for 802.11b + MemStick is better than only MemStick and no 802.11b
400MHz XScale is nicer than 175MHz TI, I'm guessing.

RE: Where is the INNOVATION?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 10:13:13 PM #
Don't you have a single piece of Clié? Get out of here! Get the Zire, better.
RE: Where is the INNOVATION?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:32:05 AM #
NO Innovation at all!!!

Sony where is YOUR innovation??? 16Mb RAM??? Bollocks for such an expensive device? NR clamshell. After ALL the problems I had with the dreaded NR series I am for one not going to use the NX.

RE: Where is the INNOVATION?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:43:25 AM #
LoL .. seriously get a life ..
you've been posting basically the same message with different wordings for too many times, if you have the time count ... how many post on this page is yours
RE: Where is the INNOVATION?
Rolando @ 9/26/2002 9:21:36 AM #
I think the innovation started a couple of years back...

Sony finally let the engineers take the weekend off because they were so far ahead. Wouldn't wanna blow the wad and all...

Rechargeable battery sled?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/25/2002 11:33:40 PM #
If this new NR will ship with the same battery as the previous model, the souped up features will surely drain the battery faster. Sony should make a hi-capacity rechargeable battery sled for power users with no chance to recharge while on the go (road/plane/wherever). A BIG sled will hardly matter if you're in a vehicle and not carrying the NR in your pants pocket.

Oh, they should add mac support while they're at it.

RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
hotpaw4 @ 9/26/2002 12:01:21 AM #
Sony *does* make a battery sled for the T-series:
the PEGA-BC10, holds 4 AA cells (alkaline or NiMH).

RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:40:32 AM #
I saw news about an iPaq sleeve that had 2 CF slots and used a NOKIA 8290 cell phone battery--- Now THAT is awesome! Rechargeable using the standard cradle/cable, and replaceable cheaply. I want that for my new PEG-NX70V
RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:15:15 AM #
They could just make the standard battery a standard swappable Li-ion design as used in many mobile phones. That way, you could simply carry a spare when needed. Can't see them doing it, but you never know.

Zuber

RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
IanJD @ 9/26/2002 6:31:25 AM #
This is a nice idea, but the smallest mobile phone batteries are still about 2-3 times the size of the internal NR70/V battery.

RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:38:09 AM #
According to the review of the PEGA-BC10, it can't even fully recharge an NR with one set of batteries. Besides, it's not a sled. It hangs loose awkwardly.
RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:46:01 AM #
it is a remote charger
RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:16:43 PM #
>>>This is a nice idea, but the smallest mobile phone batteries are still about 2-3 times the size of the internal NR70/V battery.<<<

I've not seen the internals of a Clie, are you saying the battery is smaller than the one you get in a 8310. I'd be amazed if it is. I was thinking it would about the size of 2 of those.

Zuber

RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
IanJD @ 9/27/2002 7:01:02 AM #
I haven't got the exact dimensions, but it's about 50mm x 30mm x 4mm. It's sitting in the lower back of the base unit, so you could physically slide it out of the screw-held push-out panel.

RE: Rechargeable battery sled?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 9:46:58 AM #
OK, that explains the battery life etc.

My advice to Sony, would be to drop the prop. CF slot, stick in Bluetooth and a bigger battery in its place. The 1200mA number from my Nokia 9210 would do the job nicely.

Put the WiFi on a sled with an additional battery.

Zuber

NX versus Tungsten

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:07:13 AM #
So here are the tradeoffs:

They both run OS 5, have color hi-density displays and 16 MB of RAM.

Sony NX :
camera/video for $100 extra
Bluetooth $200 extra
802.11 extra $$$?
but two expansion slots for wireless
faster CPU (maybe slightly, maybe up to 3X
since XScale has a newer pipeline than a 9T.)
tiny keyboard
virtual Graffiti
bigger and heavier form factor
mediocre battery life

Tungsten T :
built-in Bluetooth
smaller and lighter form factor
great battery life (OMAP vs. XScale)
175 MHz ARM 9T CPU plus a 200 MHz DSP
possibly better buttons? (D-Pad)

Sounds like the power-users will go for the new Sony because of the bonus features; traditional customers will go for the new Palm because of the more pocketable size and better battery life. My guess is that there are slightly more of the latter buyers. I'll also predict that the new Sony and Palm OS5 models will *both* sell better than any single PocketPC model this holiday season.

The only holding back some amazing new OS5 applications is the lack of polished armlet development tools.

The 16 MB thing is a red herring. Smart buyers know that most PalmOS applications use less than 1 MB, or run from a memory card (with the exception of a tiny number of big database applications that will soon go obsolete and be replaced by smart competition.) If the companies need more marketing checkboxes, they'll bundle a 128 MB flash card and call them 144 MB units.
Eventually, they'll build-in more flash memory.

Tungsten: built-in Bluetooth AND a SD/MMC slot
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:57:17 AM #
It looks liek the Tungsten has built in Bluetooth and a SD/MMC slot as well. ;o)
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=4192
RE: NX versus Tungsten
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:28:17 AM #
I believe he left out sony's non-standard CF and MS slot also ..

HOw do you go online with 802.11?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:30:23 AM #
How does one go online with 802.11?

Is it like some sort of wireless service?

RE: HOw do you go online with 802.11?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:48:38 AM #
You can subscribe to a internet service that provides 802.11 so called WIFI access (e.g. earthlink), then u can carry your PDA everywhere there is coverage and stay online. (and actually there are alot of college in US already have WIFI access you just need to know it in order to use it)

OR

You can add a 802.11 Access point at you home's braodband/modem, then u can use your PDA wirelessly to access the internet anywhere in your house.

This will be a big hand held.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:44:31 AM #
The NR series are already tall. Addition of a CF slot will make it thicker. We all make fun of the Ipaq
bricks but this will be a big device.
RE: This will be a big hand held.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:01:15 AM #
I can't believe that it has that huge bump for a slot that will only accept ONE specific Sony product. That is like haveing a m505 with a perminantly attached thumboard, but you have to buy the actual keys seperatly. I hope they offer a version with out the "CF" slot.
Limited CF Slot is BAD MOVE for SONY
robrecht @ 9/27/2002 9:16:40 AM #
Yes, bad move SONY, especially if you do not allow other CF peripherals to work with the unit. In addition to memory, there are some other good CF peripherals for a POTS modem or a wireless modem, etc. And connectivity options have always been a disadvantage for SONY handhelds!

Thanks, Robrecht

No wonder...

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:43:45 AM #
No wonder there were so many comments by the time I checked in today. This is just one big "troll orgy." What a waste of time!!! Most of you really need to get a life.
RE: No wonder...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:26:44 AM #
BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD!
*** CRUSHED BONES **
BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD!

Oh, Yeah!

Great!!

OzziePalmDieHard @ 9/26/2002 2:53:05 AM #
Gotta love this. It blows any PPC out of the water. It has the fastest processor in any handheld currently, double expansion(crippled CF, but hopefully hackable),
only model with builtin video, and it runs PalmOS!

As much as the trolls complain, the fact that a Palm OS device now is THE highend in handhelds is great, so hopefully we can regain some highend users who have gone to the dark side.

The whole 16mb thing is utter bull****, a Palm OS device doesn't need any more. The reason PPC has more RAM is not because they have better handhelds, but because the OS is so fat, and programs are bloated.

As for the trolls, really get a life. Manufacturers are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Make the device more battery friendly, and ppl say, "Brick! Not enough features! Phh! No coffee dispensor or inbuilt cigarrete lighter!"

If they make a device like this, with amazing specs, ppl complain about battery life.

It is a trade-off, features-poor battery or
less features-good battery. PLease, get this into your thick skulls.

I personally think this is great, and tho i will never be able to afford it, i hope to pick one up in 20 years time for $1 at a garage sale.

And as long as its not a PPC, we should all be happy. If you don't like it, dont buy it.

Still waiting for a lower end OS5 device.. Ho Humm


======================================================

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

RE: Great!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:31:39 AM #
I´ll buy the one with the coffee dispenser, even if is a PPC...

RE: Great!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:16:59 PM #
Gotta love this. It blows any PPC out of the water.

Yes, and it also completely crushes any PPC. With its weight, that is. You thought Jornadas were bricks with a short battery life, wait till you get the Sony.

Look at the slick Toshiba handhelds--ARM-based handhelds don't have to be bricks. And if you want something with CF, MMC, and keyboard, a Zaurus seems like a better design than the NR/NX series.

RE: Great!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:19:37 PM #
"It has the fastest processor in any handheld currently"

pffft... really..... I love it when people spout garbage to make themselves try and seem smart....
200mhz it is, 200mhz xscale, 200mhz slower than the 400mhz xscale, that has been popping up in PPC's all over the place... but, because you are a single minded sony freak, because the sony has a 200mhz cpu, it must be the fastest.
(and it still cant do anything that a PPC cant)

heh heh, I'll stick with my m105, oh but I wish it had wifi, and bluetooth, oh and 1024 x 768 xga screen, and dont forget 1gig of internal ram, and it will run for 1 minute, if you use it with the backlight off and dont use the digitizer due to the extra power drain. but hey, if I wrote sony on it with a nikko, then I would be happy with it.

What does "P D A" stand for again :|

RE: Great!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:30:42 PM #
BTW.... what excatly about it blows away any PPC? (Ive been waiting for years for this hehehe)
What is it the ARM cpu?
the meagre RAM
oh, maybe cause it has a memory expansion slot?
a high res screen?
short battery life?
an ir port.....
sh#%ty camera?
gimme something to work with here....
sounds like the specs of a ppc running os5
it might pay to think twice nowdays (with arm palms) before dissing PPC's.....

I'll be sticking with the m105 and e310 :) best of both worlds, a nice small palm, equal in specs (almost) to the Vx, and a PPC as good as any out there.

oh well at least maybe the days are over of hearing people say "oh my palm is better cause it runs for a month on two triple a's and can do everything that ppc can with a 16mhz 68k with its gameboyesque dotty little screen....." pfft

RE: Great!!
OzziePalmDieHard @ 9/27/2002 3:13:13 AM #
"pffft... really..... I love it when people spout garbage to make themselves try and seem smart....
200mhz it is, 200mhz xscale, 200mhz slower than the 400mhz xscale, that has been popping up in PPC's all over the place... but, because you are a single minded sony freak, because the sony has a 200mhz cpu, it must be the fastest.
(and it still cant do anything that a PPC cant)"

Please, before you flame, realize that the confirmation that it was 200mhz was posted in an update, AFTER i posted, so don't blow your head off in a fit of self righteous rage.
As for being a sony freak, i own an m130. I am currently saving up for an OS5 handheld, and have got a holiday job to pay for it.
I am not a sony troll, and i don't see where you get that from, i am a PalmOS troll, true ;), and i was happy to see that a PalmOS handheld was as good if not better hardware wise than any PPC. However, with confirmation that it is 200mhz, i don't think i deserve a flame.

"(and it still cant do anything that a PPC cant)"

Umm, did you read the article? Try inbuilt video camera. Yes, it is not quality, or neccessary, but just a toy, but then again i recall the same being said about GUIs.

I don't plan on buying this handheld, i don't like its format or design, and i would never be able to afford it. Your flame is totally unjustified.

I have no favour for palmOS vendors, all i support is PalmOS. I will take the best deal available and the handheld that suits me best. My current palm is an m130, and my next will probably be an SJ30-esque OS5 sony, if such a device is ever made.
All you achieved in your mindless flame, was to show that you are much more immature than a 13yr old, and suggests that you are a narrow minded troll who cannot handle anyone saying anything remotely encouraging about sony.

Mr I.M Anonymous, if anyone is single-minded it is you. No-one made you buy this handheld, so why complain? It adds to the family of PalmOS devices, and is good for the platform. But i suppose you are an average PIC troll who is religiously loyal to a vendor, and will insult any other vendor with standard insults concerning battery life, or lack of features, depending on which vendor. Please note that competition is good for the consumer, and without PPC or other palm licensees, i doubt that colour would be very prevalent, even today.

As for trying to look smart, maybe you should try it sometime?
Oh well, i'll let you get back to your book burning, and chanting about whatever vendor it is you worship.


=-=-=-=-=-=
PalmOS supporter

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

RE: Great!!
cbulock @ 9/27/2002 10:26:38 PM #
Look, I'm not a fan of the Pocket PC, but the PPC hardware is definatly better than any Palm hardware currently out. I think going on about the new Clie being better was unnessesary, especially when you posted no one said it had a 400MHz processor. Even if it did, it still would only be equal to a PPC in processor speed, and wouldn't match in other aspects such as RAM.

I just wish people would quit going on about things when they don't know what they are talking about

RE: Great!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 5:35:49 AM #
Palm with X-scale 200Mhz will blow PocketPC with 400Mhz any time of the day. Even Dragonball 66Mhz was faster than any PocketPC. Try to run the programs in POcketPC and let the waiting game (hourglass) begin.

400mhz

iebnn @ 9/26/2002 6:31:44 AM #
Hehe, this is faster than my mom's computer.

I'd actually rather have a 200MHz XSCale, if it had more battery life than the 175MHz TI and was still a little faster.

RE: 400mhz
Ed @ 9/26/2002 8:43:51 AM #
According to the Geek.com source, it uses a 200 MHz processor.

---
News Editor
RE: 400mhz
iebnn @ 9/26/2002 8:51:32 AM #
Yes, I just noticed that :)

Great, I'm buying one.

Underwhelming.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:30:31 AM #
Get rid of the stupid clamshell, make the CF slot actually work, reduce the size and weight, get decent battery life, and they'll actually have caught up with HandEra.

Of course if Sony keeps going in the direction they seem to be going, they'll manage to make a Palm OS laptop out of this yet.

I sure hope we see some better OS 5 options than this and Tungsten.

RE: Underwhelming.
Beavis @ 9/26/2002 11:53:13 AM #
Are you Handera people still around? There were only like three sold to begin with, nothing new from Handera in almost two years.

WHERE IS HANDERA!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:15:50 PM #
The previous poster took the words right out of my mouth! Does anyone know if Handera is coming out with a OS 5 version device? Do they still exist if at all?
RE: Underwhelming.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 5:37:47 PM #
I don't know about a Palm laptop but what about a Palm based tablet. It would be kool to have a 8x10 wireless Palm. No keyboard all screen w/virtual graffiti.
RE: Underwhelming.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 8:08:07 AM #
I can't beleive anyone likes HandEra anymore. They're kind of off the map as they have nothing to offer this time around and most likely won't ever again. They are too small time to be able to keep up with Sony or even PALM.
RE: Underwhelming.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 9:25:01 AM #
Funny listening to the Sony fanatics whine about HandEra. Whine all you want, but it still doesn't give this NX device close to a decent weight, form factor, battery life, or functional CF slot. Things HandEra had years ago. Why does HandEra even need to release something new? Even their practically ancient TRGpro at least has a functional CF slot. Don't worry, HandEra is working on OS 5 too, and then you'll have something new to whine about.
RE: Underwhelming.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 12:16:27 AM #
Only Sony could find a way to make something like CF proprietary.

CF slot bulge spoils form factor

IanJD @ 9/26/2002 8:46:04 AM #
This looks like another step towards PPC bulk, I'll be hanging onto my NR70V for a few months yet if this is the only upgrade path.

RE: CF slot bulge spoils form factor
ahecht @ 9/26/2002 12:13:49 PM #
I can't believe that it has that huge bump for a slot that will only accept ONE specific Sony product. That is like having an m505 with a perminantly attached thumboard, but you have to buy the actual keys seperatly. I hope they offer a version with out the "CF" slot.



RE: CF slot bulge spoils form factor
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:46:32 PM #
I hope they let it work with other CF devices. At the very least other non memory devices such as Bluetooth cards.

Zuber

RE: CF slot bulge spoils form factor
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:56:04 PM #
I'd bet money that technically its simply a driver issue: they don't want to have to try and support all the different CF memory and devices out there from both a technical support and business sense.

But I don't think its something that a good 3rd party developer can't fix.

RE: CF slot bulge spoils form factor
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:27:25 PM #
"This looks like another step towards PPC bulk."

Who are you kidding. This thing is a giant next to the new pocket PC's let alone the new Palm. This clam shell design from Sony is way to large. If I wanted a laptop I would get one.

RE: CF slot bulge
ginsberg @ 9/27/2002 5:31:17 PM #
Saw the NX70V unit and it is barely larger than the current NR70V - only difference comes from the CF-sized slot. It does not spoil the form factor.

The real problem is not size or weight, it is that the new CF-sized slot is NOT CF, but instead is a new Sony proprietary format. As such, CF cards will not work in the NX70V.

Sony shoots themselves in the foot again.

Sony Makes PPC Powered By Palm

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:43:53 AM #
Pushing the envelope is good, but I think Sony is trying to create one device for all, rather than thinking about distinct market segments.

Overheard at Sony Headquarters:

"I think we need to make a PDA"
"I think we should build a Handycam"
"I think we should build an MP3 player"
"I think we should build an expensive remote control"
"Let's do it like Microsoft, and put it all into one device"


RE: Sony Makes PPC Powered By Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:30:06 PM #
Yes... because Microsoft have created sooo many devices??????! :)
RE: Sony Makes PPC Powered By Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:44:32 PM #
Hmm let me count.... All of well, none....

RE: Sony Makes PPC Powered By Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 4:37:24 AM #
--------
Pushing the envelope is good, but I think Sony is trying to create one device for all, rather than thinking about distinct market segments.

Overheard at Sony Headquarters:

"I think we need to make a PDA"
"I think we should build a Handycam"
"I think we should build an MP3 player"
"I think we should build an expensive remote control"
"Let's do it like Microsoft, and put it all into one device"
---------
Do you even know what Sony offers? Or is it that you just don't understand market segmentation?
Let's take a look at Sony's current lineup:

SL10
Low cost, BW no frills PDA. Cheaper hardware, disposable batteries, no Mp3, no enhanced IR, no "Handycam", minimal 8meg memory.

SJ20
Lower price range BW, no Mp3, no enhanced IR, no camera, BUT with better hardware and 16 megs memory.

SJ30
Mid range priced color PDA. No Mp3, no enhanced IR, no camera.

T665
Higher price range. Mp3, Enhanced IR, no camera, 16 meg memory.

NR70
Flagship model, high price range. Mp3, Enhanced IR, no camera 16 meg, 320x480 resolution.

NR70V
Flagship mode, high price range. Mp3, Enhanced IR, camera, 320x480 resolution.

Exactly how many other iterations do you need? You want a camera, you get the NR70V. You want Mp3, you have a choice of 3 PDA's. Don't want Mp3, but you want a color PDA? That's covered too.

weird.....

OutdooR @ 9/26/2002 9:06:58 AM #
if you look closly at the first pic, you can see that the memory stick slot and the IR port are in the same place..........?

..::|OutdooR|::..
RE: weird.....
Ed @ 9/26/2002 9:09:35 AM #
The Memory Stick slot is right next to the IR port and the same width. This picture isn't all that good and the two look like just a black square but this is how they are arranged on the NR series. Take a look at this picture:
www.sonystyle.com/images/tour/computing/nr70v/images/tour_06.jpg

---
News Editor
RE: weird.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:37:39 AM #
Damn, those Sony guys, who are so tight lipped about new releases, sure are fast to go after the released pictures! Pretty funny! Must be right on.

Long Live Palm OS!

RE: weird.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:48:08 AM #
damn! what do the NX70 pics look like?!?!?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! TODAY IS MY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!! I NEEEEEED TO KNOOOOOOW!!!!
RE: weird.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:09:50 AM #
So did anyone grab the pics b4 they were blasted?
RE: weird.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:19:39 AM #
Just click on the Geek.com link.
RE: weird.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:25:56 AM #
Cool thanks - gee, it's just as ugly as the first NR... forget that for a game of soldiers... the Tungsten T is for me... yo yo yo... Tungsten T is in da house WauloK!! :-)

CF slot hacked?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:44:52 AM #
Ok, I bet that the CF limitation is blocked by software, not hardware. I am sure that SOMEONE will find a hack for this.

What can they remove, or disable, that a hardware card uses, but a storage doesn't? :)

RE: CF slot hacked?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:54:03 AM #
Only if it is indeed a true CF slot. As it stands I am sure the CF Association which hands out logos would have a stroke if Sony touts this as anything to do with Compact Flash. Per the photos which were removed - they were touting as a Sony Wireless Expansion slot or something along those lines.
RE: CF slot hacked?
IanJD @ 9/26/2002 5:54:18 PM #
It is listed as a CF Type II slot, with the stated limititation.

RE: CF slot hacked?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 2:26:10 PM #
Yes, but I am wondering HOW is it limited?
RE: CF slot hacked?
ginsberg @ 9/27/2002 5:39:47 PM #
The CF-sized slot is limited by its INCOMPATIBILITY with the CF standard. Sony wants to sell you their own 802.11b card.

Don't Remove the Pictures

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:13:33 AM #
Ed, I know that you probably want to keep good relations with Sony, but you really should take a harder line with the pics. It's absolutely improper of Sony to strong-arm you to take down the pics.

If you are worried about legal ramifications of publishing the pics, consider that the NY Times has published classified government documents, and that's perfectly legal.

If they are threatening to sue you in any way, I would give a call to EFF. They know all the rules about these things and can push back just as hard as Sony.

I think it's important to keep the journalistic integrity intact and publish news regardless of the desires of the affected company.

RE: Don't Remove the Pictures
CharFeld @ 9/26/2002 10:59:11 AM #
I don't understand - how come Geek.com gets to keep their pictures up, but PIC has to take theirs down?

RE: Don't Remove the Pictures
mcseym @ 9/26/2002 11:12:55 AM #
Maybe the pics ARE fake and PIC will be given the first bash at releasing the hot 'real' news when it happens.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking that we might wake up tomorow and find out the CF slot, no Bluetooth, unworked shell design, only 16MB and non swiveling screen were just a bad dream . . .

Cheers

Matt

RE: Don't Remove the Pictures
IanJD @ 9/26/2002 11:45:50 AM #
"non swiveling screen"

Where does this come from? The camera won't swivel all the way around, but there's nothing stopping the screen, is there? The picture explicitly says that it swivels.

Video Clip from the new device

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:48:02 AM #
RE: Video Clip from the new device
davidkshepherd @ 9/26/2002 10:49:51 AM #
Actually, the device in the video looks like a NR90V not the new one, noitice the camera on the device ion the clip is silver. This one looks to be black... Best view of device ~:07 of clip.

RE: Video Clip from the new device
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:06:34 PM #
You're right. Weird.
RE: Video Clip from the new device
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:33:09 PM #
There is a new movie clip posted!

Can anyone tell which device this is?

NR70V?
NX70V?
NR90V?

Anyway, the video quality is great! 30 fps! :)

http://hem.passagen.se/pmr/teaser/index2.html

Looks like the camera won't rotate

davidkshepherd @ 9/26/2002 10:45:55 AM #
The pic on geek.com made me realize that the camera won't rotate anymore, at least not around to the back. The "Sony only CF Slot" will be in the way. I really hope they put one out without this crippled CF slot... I'd but of those one now.

Cliesource has a PDF!

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:00:54 AM #
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:20:35 AM #
Dead link
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:22:44 AM #
"UPDATE: NX70V PDF Specs File - Taken down due to Sony's request to not distribute it."

Seems PIC aren't the only ones to fold under the pressure of Sony... go Geek.com!

RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:50:55 AM #
Luckily I downloaded it in time!
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:54:59 AM #
Geek.com has removed everything as well.
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
BiffK @ 9/26/2002 11:56:44 AM #
The PDF is awesome! All of the specs as well as better images of the device. I'm drooling all over! The images that were formerly here were apparently taken from the PDF... looks like a rough cut of the final version of the PDF.

-Biff K
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:03:57 PM #
All the pictures have been pulled - can someone who grabbed them in time post them somewhere?
Pleeeeaase!
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
BiffK @ 9/26/2002 12:06:00 PM #
I'd be happy to post the PDF if I had any idea where that wouldn't yank it!

-Biff K
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:32:19 PM #
If you got this PDF in time...I'm drooling...

Can you please e-mail to me: deleteme32@hotmail.com

RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:40:24 PM #
BiffK!

Could you please email me the PDF? :)

michaelbellamo@hotmail.com

Thank you! :]

RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:23:17 PM #
could someone email them to me to
bemick@bigfoot.com
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:28:25 PM #
I hate to ask for this, but if anyone who has the pdf could send it to my Hotmail I would appreciate it.

mpa50@hotmail.com

Thanks a lot.


RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:35:57 PM #
nevermind i found it
DO NOT send a copy to bemick@bigfoot.com
I would love to get a copy of this PDF as well
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:01:49 PM #
Please email it to m3evolution@hotmail.com

Thank you very much

RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:08:30 PM #
Pls send it to me too!!! I love to have it:

sccl@netvigator.com

Tks a lot

RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:12:06 PM #
Does the PDF have any specification? Size? Weight? CPU MHz? Estimated battery life?
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
BiffK @ 9/26/2002 3:25:33 PM #
Straight from the PDF:

OS: Palm OS® software v. 5.0*1
CPU: 200 MHz

Memory: 16 MB (RAM)*2, 16 MB (ROM)

Display: TFT color display with back lights, 320 x 480 dots, 65,536 colors

Interface*3: USB (cradle), Infrared (IrDA 1.2), Memory Stick slot*4, Remote
Commander LED, Communication Slot (CF Type II) *5

Power Supply: Output DC 5.2V, Input AC100V- 240V

Battery: Lithium-ion polymer rechargeable battery (internal)

Battery Life: Approx. 10 days. *6

Dimensions: Approx. 2 7/8 x 5 1/2 x 15/16 inches (projecting parts not included)

Weight: Approx. 8 oz. (including stylus)

-Biff K

Oh my God!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 5:05:37 PM #
Weight: Approx. 8 oz. (including stylus)

That's ONE-HALF POUND. clearly this is not for the pocket.

And I was upset at Palm for having the Tungston at 5.6oz. That looks reasonable now that I look at this monster from sony. Whatever happened to the sub-4 oz pda like the palm v and so on. AH, the good old days....

I for one must have a very pocketable pda because this is where I keep it for most of my day. I'll have to wait and see how that tungston design works out.

RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:19:23 PM #
I am sorry but while you are comparing this to Palm's tungsten you have to realize that tungsten is not even in it's league. Let's wait for the T-seriese OS 5 replcement then you can start to compare.
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:10:22 PM #
The weight it 8oz (including stylus)? Well, clearly the stylus is 3oz. :-)
RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 10:32:53 AM #
And you all used to complain about those "thin sticks" Sony called a stylus.
No more. three ounce behemoth big as a cigar around. :)

Sony listens. :)

RE: Cliesource has a PDF!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 1:23:28 PM #
Here is another link for the nx70 PDF
http://www.spug.net/news/press/nx70.pdf

PICTURES FOUND AGAIN!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:20:11 PM #
http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=1932

has pics of the new unit and pics of the new SONY only user interface options.

RE: PICTURES FOUND AGAIN!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 12:58:12 PM #
I love how PDA live constantly steals articles and pictures and claims it as thier own and never gives due credit. These are the exact same pics that were on geek.com before.
RE: PICTURES FOUND AGAIN!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:12:31 PM #
What is up with those guys over at PDALive anyway? They constantly post stories they steal from everyone and never give credit. At least other reputable sites, like PIC and Geek.com, site their sources and don't claim it as their own.

article at the Register

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 1:13:26 PM #
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/27307.html

although the guy seems a little confused...
>>It's still only PalmOS 5.0 of course,
>> rather than the Next Big Thing

RE: article at the Register
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:19:53 PM #
Well I think they're referring to the fact that PalmOS 5 on its own looks and feels like the older revs, and even concentrates on older chip emulation rather than completely native apps.

I understand that, but at the same time, the groups that constantly push the envelope (audio/video/game developers) never really let themselves be limited by OS constraints before.

I don't understand people who say "PalmOS 5 only supports ARMlets so no one will ever make games/etc. equivalent to what's on a PPC until PalmOS 6 comes out!"

What's to say you don't just make a small shell with all the real app meat being ARM code? Sure you'd lose compatibility with older devices but in the bleeding edge world, that's the sacrifice you make.

Did PalmOS not supporting greyscale, sound, or video stop the developers of games and media players? No. As long as the hardware is capable of it, developers will push it no matter what "constraints" the OS imposes.

Am I the only one?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:27:41 PM #
I am waiting for current NR price to drop with the release of these models.

Camera one 400 bucks, without camera 350 should be easy to find, 300 if you look hard for bargains. Should be a narrow window of opportunity while stock lasts.

RE: Am I the only one?
Ronin @ 9/26/2002 11:21:20 PM #
I am seriously considering this as an option as well. The NR70V would be great for $400, if it has no memory stick problem. My biggest reservations are (1) that I would actually like to see the new OS5 devices before I make the decision (but I doubt it will be feasible to wait this long as the NR70V may well be long gone by then) and (2) I will only be on the cutting edge of technology instead of the bleeding edge at the moment of purchase. Although I note that with technology, no one is on the bleeding age for long.

One other thing, these new Sonys don't appeal to me at all because of their size and weight. I have some very strict requirements in this regard and these two exceed those limitations. The Tungsten T, on the other had does not (depending on how much bulk a cover/case adds).

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

Active Links as of this posting

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:01:35 PM #
RE: Active Links as of this posting
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:48:23 PM #
The PDALive link to the PDF still works, though terribly slow!! Like 2KB/sec
RE: Active Links as of this posting
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:01:29 PM #
Wow! Someone is going to get fired over this getting out. Look at some of the data on the screen shots, I think this is some Sony exec's beta unit.

I'll bet that the big wigs at Sony are ticked off about this.

RE: Active Links as of this posting
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:52:30 PM #
www.davespda.com also posted pictures. these pictures seem to be larger then the otheres and clearer.
RE: Active Links as of this posting
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 7:24:58 AM #
The Pics and PDF can both be still seen or accessed via Palmloyal.com.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K1ED23DE1

RE: Active Links as of this posting
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 7:38:16 AM #
Palmloyal also has a link to a site that has two video clips that we shot from the current NR70V model. The clips look good.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2DD24DE1

Voice recording

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:35:41 PM #
i see it is built in mic. will the video be accompanied with sound? and is there voice recording capabilities?

any idea?

RE: Voice recording
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:43:42 PM #
It does have voice recording:
---------
Audio Frequency Response: 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz
Recording Format: ATRAC3, MP3, ADPCM (for voice recording)
Sampling Frequency: 44.1 kHz (ATRAC3, MP3)
Output: Headphone jack / stereo mini jack

-Record voice memo on internal memory or Memory Stick media.
-Use the recorded voice memo as your alarm sound.
-Beam or attach your voice memo to email using CLIE Mail.
-Recording time: Approx. 535 min on 128MB MS in LP mode. (8 kHz sampling freq.)
---------

Cannot see anything about being able to record video with the MPEG4 video program, but there is a volume setting, so who knows?

NRx battery is a joke

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:42:37 PM #
from the spec page:
battery life: apprx 10 days*
*Based on 30 mins a day use with backlight off.

that's 5 hrs total if you are lucky with backlight off!

and they want to put wireless card too? get out of here.

RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:50:32 PM #
Thats fine with me, I use my PDA as portable info storage. I don't plan on doing anything power/processor intensive anyways!
RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:41:27 PM #
than you should get a PDA that support CF, since CF memory is the cheapest right now, almost a half cheaper than SD or a third than MS, not to mention the maximum capacity.
RE: NRx battery is a joke
somas1 @ 9/26/2002 4:56:14 PM #
"Thats fine with me, I use my PDA as portable info storage. I don't plan on doing anything power/processor intensive anyways!"

Why would you want to buy an 500-600 dollar pda if you don't plan to do anything power or processor intensive?

I can't believe people are complaining about the 16 MB and not this ridiculous battery life. If this clie can't match an IPAQ's battery life it is useless.

RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 5:16:36 PM #
not only the ipaq but what about the new toshiba models. The PPC people will have a field day with this info. 5 hours with the backlight off? who is going to use it with the backlight off. Not me.

Does this mean that with the backlight on it may last no more than 2.5hrs. and not counting any wireless. WOW!

RE: NRx battery is a joke
somas1 @ 9/26/2002 5:26:13 PM #
"not only the ipaq but what about the new toshiba models. "

The Toshiba models have a decent battery life (not great but decent). I brought up the Ipaq because it has long been the standard for crappy battery life.

If the pdf is right then Sony has bought into PPC's bs.

RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:18:54 PM #
All Palm-powered devices have longer battery life and smaller form-factors than PocketPC.
RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:47:43 PM #
"Thats fine with me, I use my PDA as portable info storage. I don't plan on doing anything power/processor intensive anyways!"

Buy a portable harddisk instead.

RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:40:41 PM #
"All Palm-powered devices have longer battery life and smaller form-factors than PocketPC."

What? Did you mean Palm brand? This thing is bigger than a Toshiba e550 and has worse battery life if the above info is true.


RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 2:06:20 AM #
The NR series is bigger and heavier than any PPC device out there.
RE: NRx battery is a joke
IanJD @ 9/27/2002 6:56:41 AM #
No actually, there isn't a slimmer PPC than the NR series. The NX series will be bigger.

RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 8:56:36 AM #
Does anyone know the rated battery life for the NR series? Sony says 10 days with the light off at 3o mins a day for the new ones, according to the pdf, but what about the NR series? Anyone have that sam similar info from a Sony info source?
RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 2:21:19 PM #
"No actually, there isn't a slimmer PPC than the NR series. The NX series will be bigger"

Toshiba e550g:
3 x 4.9 x .6 inches
6 ounces

Sony NX (in PDF doc.)
2.9 x 5.5 x .9 inches
8 ounces

Sony NR
2.9 x 5.5 x .69 inches
7 ounces

RE: NRx battery is a joke
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 3:33:17 AM #
Don't forget the Toshi e310 and the new Zayo PPC. The Zayo is even THINNER than the m515. PPCs have gotten smaller and more powerful while Palms seem to get thicker and heavier. Go figure.
RE: NRx battery is a joke
somas1 @ 9/29/2002 9:25:22 AM #
" Don't forget the Toshi e310 and the new Zayo PPC. The Zayo is even THINNER than the m515. PPCs have gotten smaller and more powerful while Palms seem to get thicker and heavier. Go figure"

The Zayo lasts about an hour and a half between charges. If we are talking about battery life the Zayo should not be brought up except as something to avoid. The e310 is a better example and I am upset that the NX can't at least match its battery life. The reason I don't buy the 310 is that PPC battery life diminishes even when the PPC is not used. Not something a Power Palm user can deal with.

I'm Upgraing

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:49:07 PM #
I've been using my trusty old Palm V for many years now and it is starting to go.

The NX70V may not be perfect, but it is light years ahead of what I have now.

As soon as I cna pre-order, I will be putting in my order! Happy I waited for this one instaed of getting the NR70V!

RE: I'm Upgraing
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:53:39 PM #
Oops, meant "Upgrading"

Where the heck are the OS 5 fonts?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 3:54:39 PM #
Those pictures show the same old crappy thin Sony fonts? Is this really OS 5? I thought Sony had said they were going to start using the OS 5 fonts once Palm officially supported the hi-res screens. Or is this the only way Sony can support the virtual graffiti area is by still using a custom GUI with those lame fonts?
RE: Where the heck are the OS 5 fonts?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:19:39 PM #
Well it obviously isn't a question as to whether they technically *can*, because many users including myself already use the OS 5 fonts on the OS 4 Clie's.

While I think it'd be silly not to, whether Sony puts them in by default or not doesn't really matter to me...

The PDF is amazing

iebnn @ 9/26/2002 4:46:06 PM #
I downloaded the PDF, it has much higher quality photos and screenshots. It's great. Look up for a link to it (took maybe 15 minutes to download on cable.)

Some corrections/clarifications:
The video records at 160x112 (mpeg4)
It can play back mpeg4 or mpeg1 videos at 320x240, even in a landscape mode.
There's even an image editing program that comes with it, and you can email your photos with the built in email application.
The mail application can "recieve and send attachments" but all I can see is jpeg so far (possibly other formats as well.)
It has 16mb ROM.
1MB of RAM is taken up with (non-removable?) applications.
All the PIM apps support hires+
There is 2x digital zoom
I saw an example photo, it's much nicer than the NR70V photos :)
Encoding for MPEG4 is approx 2MB per minute.

RE: The PDF is amazing
iebnn @ 9/26/2002 4:53:46 PM #
Wow, apparently you can also attach the MPEG4 movie files to emails.

RE: The PDF is amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 12:46:04 PM #
If the video records at 160x112, then the video going around the internet now are NOT from this NX70V. I'm confused now. The video going around the internet now is at 214x160. HMMMM?!?!?!??!
RE: The PDF is amazing
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 8:53:54 PM #
I beleive what the PDF means is that viewing while recording is at 160x112. not the recording format.
RE: The PDF is amazing
iebnn @ 9/29/2002 1:10:19 PM #
No, it records at that. Viewing is much larger.

I'm buying one when they are discontinued

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 4:54:12 PM #
I'm buying one once these are discontinued (probably $300 or less) in about March 2003

Release Date

iebnn @ 9/26/2002 4:55:01 PM #
It says Early November in the PDF. Is this just in Japan? When do you think it'll be out in the US?
I don't see any japanese writing in the PDF. Hmm...

RE: Release Date
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 5:12:09 PM #
I assume (hope) they will be thinking XMas, big money worldwide sales. So I reckon woldwide availability.

Zuber

RE: Release Date
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/29/2002 3:00:31 PM #
The PDF is meant for Americans. Who else usese inches and ounces in their description? We would see the measurements in mm and grams if it was meant for any other place on the planet.

MP3 Wand

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:34:28 PM #
Is there an MP3 wand for easier MP3 playback?
RE: MP3 Wand
IanJD @ 9/26/2002 6:46:27 PM #
According to the PDF sheet, it sounds like the same one that shipped with the NR70/V

RE: MP3 Wand
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:49:03 PM #
but there was no PDA wand, right?
RE: MP3 Wand
IanJD @ 9/27/2002 6:55:23 AM #
What's the difference between a "wand" and a remote control?

RE: MP3 Wand
useybird @ 9/28/2002 11:58:48 PM #
just wave the magic wand and you'll instantly get mp3s

LOL

-------------
Burning Desire: The want or need for something great.
Burning THE Zire: A fun recreational activity involving setting Palm's new crappy handheld ablaze.

Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 6:57:28 PM #
I believe that it is the exact same camera that is in the NR70V and on the Memory Stick Camera.

How do they make it 640 x 480?

Here is when the digital zoom comes in.

It takes the original 320x240 photo, and turns it into a 640x480 by filling the remaining pixels by interpolation.

Interpolation you say??

A simple example: Lets say that one pixel is red and the pixel next to it is yellow - if you were to put a pixel between them to make the photo larger you would make that pixel orange.

This can be done on the pics from the NR70V camera aswell, either in an editing software on the PC or directly on the Clie - if such a software existed.

And I thought the camera would actually capture at 640 x 480 for awhile. :(


Hopefully I am dead wrong?? Any comments?

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:35:58 PM #
I'm quite sure you are wrong:

-The PDF example pictures are obviously not from pixel interpolation

-The camera itself would not be taking ~310,000 pixels [in the specs] if it were 320x240 that number would still be the ~76800 if it were just interpolated. The pixel count of the camera itself only changes if a resolution change is actually happening.

-The PDF is an internal document with no motive to lie

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 7:54:09 PM #
>I'm quite sure you are wrong:

>-The PDF example pictures are obviously not from >pixel interpolation

Why do you say that? "obviously not?" Have you seen this done before? It gets pretty good. But my question is, why use 4 times the space to save the same amount of info? [Thats what you do if you are interpolating and then saving ]

"-The camera itself would not be taking ~310,000 pixels [in the specs] if it were 320x240 that number would still be the ~76800 if it were just interpolated. The pixel count of the camera itself only changes if a resolution change is actually happening."

Well, it all depends on how you define things! If Sony thinks that Digital Zoom is super then they might say "Hey, this makes it 310 000 pixels!!!". Similar things has been done before.

Remember the m125 thing Palm pulled. "I bet noone notice that the screen only can display 4096 different colors and not 65536 as we say it does. And if they discover it, well come up with this totally phony story of dithering making it fifty-something thousand colors. [ BTW the dithering coverup was a total lie. ]

>-The PDF is an internal document with no motive to lie


If it was internal, there wouldnt be a need for the PDF :) No, the PDF is a promotion to the resellers.

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:04:20 PM #
Oh and btw, you cant tell from the photo in the PDF if it is interpolated or not -since it is in JPEG format. Zoom in on it and you will see the 16 by 16 jpeg compression blocks. Since it is compressed - meaning the data has been distorted - you wont see the interpolation.

I am pretty sure I am right now :(

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:07:10 PM #
Make that 8 by 8 jpeg compression blocks.
RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:21:35 PM #
640x460 is about 310,000 pixels. 307,200 to be exact, but I doubt that it's exactly 640x480.

That size woul dbe great for quick email and web shots. It still doesn't replace my canon S30, but it's definately more useful than before.

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:28:59 PM #
Well, we do know for sure that it's not EXACTLY the same camera, because this new one is rectangular, not circular.
RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:44:07 PM #
Hopefully this will settle it once and for all:

Why I said the pic in PDF is "obviously" not from interpolation is quite simple: the text "San Francisco" is quite clear in the larger copy.

Go ahead and open Photoshop, which will have much better algorithms than anything in a CLIE- and try all the enlarging techniques you can. Bicubic, nearest neighbor, softedge, etc.

They all end up with blurry text at the bottom of the object- simply because there isn't enough data there to produce that image from interpolation.

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:44:18 PM #
Ok, exactly the same sensor then! :)
RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 7:43:11 AM #
>They all end up with blurry text at the bottom of
>the object- simply because there isn't enough data
>there to produce that image from interpolation.

And what where you enlarging?
If you were trying to enlarge the 320x240 image in the PDF of course it would be blurry! That image is jpeg! Meaning it has lost much of the information.

Instead. Take a pic in 320x240 with your NR70V, save it as PGP ( uncompressed format ), put that pic in Photoshop and interpolate it to 640x480.

Looks EXACTLY as good as the large pic in the PDF, even with text!

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 12:42:59 PM #
No, it doesn't look near as good, but I suppose in some way that's a matter of opinion. Blowing anything up to twice its size is obvious- even when considering compression artifacts. They aren't near as big of a deal as you are making them.

So I'm curious as to where on earth you pulled down the idea that the camera is still only capable of 320x240 when all the evidence points to true 640x480?

-The specs say 640x480. They could obviously "get away" with this small lie, if it were just pixel doubling, but...

-They'd be *blatantly* lying about the pixel count if it weren't. So Palm has done this once, I don't think Sony ever has?

-I doubt they'd put a 2x digital zoom on top of an already "2x digital zoomed" pic. That would look awful.

So what evidence do you have that the camera is only 320x240, with ~70k pixels, when those two sets numbers are mentioned absolutely nowhere, and the 640x480 and ~300k pixels are mentioned everywhere?

Besides the fact that you can't make blurry text readable by some kind of magic algorithm [and yes, even uncompressed, small text is still blurry on an NR70V- go take a pic from a bit of a distance away and try it!]

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 1:37:52 PM #
>-I doubt they'd put a 2x digital zoom on top of an
>already "2x digital zoomed" pic. That would look
>awful.

Ah come on!!

They arent! The viewfinder of the software is 320x240. If the actual frame size WAS 640x480 YOU WOULDNT NEED digital zoom if you were to zoom in on the picture. Do you follow?

We well see eventually who is right about this. But as I wrote, take a pic in 320x240 on your NR70V in PGP format, and resize it to 640x480 in photoshop using either Bilinear or Bicubic interpolation.

The result will look just as good as the LARGE pic in the NX70V pdf.

RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 1:56:11 PM #
>-The specs say 640x480. They could obviously "get >away" with this small lie, if it were just pixel >doubling, but...

They wouldnt have to be lying, would they? It is all in how you define things. The 640x480 is true if you mean the resolution of the interpolated photo.


-They'd be *blatantly* lying about the pixel count if it weren't. So Palm has done this once, I don't think Sony ever has?

Again - when does pixels become pixels? When they end up in an image. If they count the pixels in the digital zoomed picture it still is 307k pixels.


RE: Camera photos actually only 320x240 ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 2:42:37 PM #
From the pdf that is going round. See details at bottom of post.

Notice it says 310,000 pixels effective for the CMOS sensor. This to me is the same language used in ditital camera circles to mean the actual number of pixels captured and processed from the sensor. Not the resolution after interpolation. Note also, that the Picture size is referred to seperately.

Zuber

Camera Specifications
Imager: Approx. 310,000 pixels (effective) 1/5.5 inch CMOS image sensor
Lens: F2.8 focal length f=2.62 mm (35 mm film conversion f=approx. 50 mm
Focus Range: 0.3 mm to infinity
Camera Rotating Angle: Approx. 260 degree
Picture Size (JPEG images): 640 x 480, 320 x 240, 160 x 120, 320 x 480 (vertical)
(movie): 160 x 112
Picture/Movie Format: JPEG (DCF), Movie Player Format, MPEG movie (playback only)
Camera Finder: 320 x 240, 160 x 120 (movie: 160 x 112)

Good & Bad

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 8:56:16 PM #
There are some very good things about the unit, but also some very bad:

Good - OS 5, 200mhz processor, Hi-Res screen, etc, but the best things are:

1. Virtual Graffitti
2. Overall design (swivel screen, keyboard)

Bad - proprietary Memory stick, and general size/weight, but the worst things are:

1. That CF slot sticking out, making the big unit, HUGE. Also to make matters worse, it is not even a standard CF slot.

2. Battery life!

The CF slot thing, and battery life is enough for me to turn down this model, although the good things make it the sexiest PDA available on any platform.

I'd even consider having this as my SECOND PDA, but carry a more standard Palm 505 size PDA as my main one.

RE: Good & Bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:13:15 PM #
>> but carry a more standard Palm 505 size PDA as my main one.

There's nothing "more standard" about the m505.

Why not 400mhz?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 9:51:27 PM #
Why not to the decision to take the 400mhz processor, and use that one?
Also, I hope theres a way that the 200mhz can be 'underclocked' to preserve battery
RE: Why not 400mhz?
abosco @ 9/26/2002 10:03:20 PM #
You say they should use 400 mhz, then you talk about underclocking 200 mhz???

They don't need the 400 mhz X-Scale because it will just be a gigantic battery drain and the effects will not be that great, as displayed with the PPCs.

-Bosco

RE: Why not 400mhz?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:23:44 PM #
true, but if the OS supports it, some of us will just charge it every couple of seconds :)

RE: Why not 400mhz?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:35:10 PM #
It only has 5 hours of battery life with a 200 MHz CPU; and you want 400 MHz !? Turn the backlight up and it would die in less than 2 hours even without an 802.11 card. Me thinks they need to fix the battery life problem first.
RE: Why not 400mhz?
Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 2:33:12 AM #
Obviously, the E310 and the E740 from Toshiba have an advantage here. As a removable chargable battery, it can be replaced with another one, so the PDA lasts a little longer, while charging the other one.
If Sony had only come up with Toshiba's design of a removable battery...
DAMN R&D.



"Now thats just PRIME!"

RE: Why not 400mhz?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 4:49:14 AM #
They don't need the 400 mhz X-Scale because it will just be a gigantic battery drain and the effects
will not be that great, as displayed with the PPCs.

Actually the latest PPC's have the ability to set the processor speed to 200mhz or 400 mhz, maby Sony will do
this.

RE: Why not 400mhz?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 8:39:08 AM #
>> Obviously, the E310 and the E740 from Toshiba have an advantage here.

The e310 does NOT have a removeable battery.

RE: Why not 400mhz?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 11:08:08 AM #
Sony uses PXA 210 not 250. 250 is 400mHz with ability to slows down, but 210 has max speed of 200.
RE: Why not 400mhz?
cbulock @ 9/28/2002 2:47:37 PM #
"They don't need the 400 mhz X-Scale because it will just be a gigantic battery drain and the effects
will not be that great, as displayed with the PPCs."

I think the reason that Pocket PC's don't have a noticeable speed difference in the 400MHz XScale processors compared to the StrongARM 206 MHz is the OS. Pocket PC 2002 doesn't support the advantages of XScale, so there is ony a slight change in performance. This likey would not be the case for Palm devices. Battery is another story though.

Update: Sony memory stick included!

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:00:42 PM #
The NX70V will be available in November, and has a US price tag of $599.99. It and the NX60 have a "wireless card slot" which takes a Sony 802.11b card, but presumably no other variety. The 70 runs a 200MHz ARM chip, has a 310K pixel camera (this is the only one that does), 320x480 TFT, an MP3 player, and it does video clips too.

Interfaces are serial and IR, plus a USB cradle for PC connectivity, and Sony's Memory Stick. It's very very dinky and silver, about 3x5.5in, and weighs eight ounces. Reverse-engineering the claims in the Sony documentation, we'd guess battery life will be five hours continuous use with the backlight switched off. In the package size it has a full, albeit somewhat small, qwerty keyboard. We like the infrared remote facility for your audio gear very much. Now, let's get that so it'll do the media player on your PC as well, and not bother with whole new "Media Center" systems.

Link here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/27307.html


duh!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 12:40:57 PM #
that's old news buddy..

UPGRADABLE

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 10:24:14 PM #
The biggest question any of us would have when this comes out....if it is upgradable to OS6.
I would laugh my a** off it this thing could upgrade to OS6...because a new Sony model would be out by january 2003 instead :)
RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 11:42:16 PM #
Since when is any of Sony model upgradable? (without customer groveling that is)
RE: UPGRADABLE
Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 12:15:19 AM #
Well, obviously, you're only speculating.
has anyone seen the PDF, if it can be upgraded?

"Now thats just PRIME!"
RE: UPGRADABLE
Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 2:38:19 AM #
I would imagine that dumb high end Palm model would be upgradable to OS6, so im thinking Sony might make the NX70 as well.


"Now thats just PRIME!"

RE: UPGRADABLE
FredLL @ 9/27/2002 4:27:23 AM #
Sony has NEVER provided OS upgrade for the CLies (except for the N710 to N760).
I hope they will change that but doubt it ...
On the other hand, Palm ALWAYS do (you can put OS 4.1 on a Palm III)
Wait & See ...

Fred

RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 5:16:52 AM #
hmm .. providing OS upgrade .. isn't that supposed to be the OS company's responsibility ??

I know for a fact that if you bought a winME computer from Dell you won't be going to Dell for winxp.

RE: UPGRADABLE
IanJD @ 9/27/2002 6:45:55 AM #
No, but the OS in the NX will not be the same as the Palm release, because of the need to support hardware specific stuff like virtual graffiti.

RE: UPGRADABLE
Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 12:10:19 PM #
So what would be the point of getting a 600 NX70 device right now, if it wont be upgradable to OS6 (multi-tasking (multiple-programs open))????
You might as well just get the fungsten junksten and upgrade that to 0S6, so the PDA will be actually usuable when OS6 rolls around.



"Now thats just PRIME!"

RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 12:23:43 PM #
NO the Core OS will BE THE SAME, are people really that supid ? Sony didn't go into Palm OS and take out some code and put in their's, they only addin their own APIs on top of those Palm API.

So if Palm OS is well written enough, there should be no problem for you to buy a copy of OS 6 from palm and upgrade your PDA.

RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 5:42:31 PM #
>NO the Core OS will BE THE SAME, are people really >that supid ?

Atleast you are.

>Sony didn't go into Palm OS and take out some code >and put in their's,

Yes they did. On several places. Sound Manager API is one example.


>they only addin their own APIs on top of those Palm >API.

No, not only.


RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 5:42:31 PM #
>NO the Core OS will BE THE SAME, are people really >that supid ?

Atleast you are.

>Sony didn't go into Palm OS and take out some code >and put in their's,

Yes they did. On several places. Sound Manager API is one example.


>they only addin their own APIs on top of those Palm >API.

No, not only.


RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 6:15:20 PM #
It is not just a question of "if" it can be upfraded, but also do they want to. Palm seems to have a track record of offering upgrades, but that is not a guarantee.

The questionmark is over Sony offering the upgrade. They haven't been making Palm OS devices that long, so we can't use the track record as an indicator. The biggest problem is, Sony will probably see existing owners as a prime target for purchasing their next device. Hardly a motivator for them to release an update for the discontinued model.

Zuber

RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 6:29:18 PM #
>Yes they did. On several places. Sound Manager API is one example.

when you buy a sound blaster and install a driver did sound blaster go in your windows system delete a few API and put in their ?? According to your logic they did :)

RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 10:41:41 PM #
You are missing the point. A PalmOS installation isn't gonna be modular where you buy the "base OS" from Palm and the extensions from Sony.

The changes Sony have made to support their taller screen / virtual graffiti / DSP / video accelerator / memstick / etc. are too integral in the OS to be separate.

If an update happens, it will come from the vendor that makes the device- just as always.

RE: UPGRADABLE
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 8:16:53 AM #
>when you buy a sound blaster and install a driver >did sound blaster go in your windows system delete a >few API and put in their ?? According to your logic >they did :)

I dont see the logic in your conclusion. No you see, I am a Palm OS developer so I know what I am talking about.

PDA Mode

Fzara2000 @ 9/26/2002 10:37:27 PM #
I thought it was a good time and show my face once again, now that today is my birthday, and that I'll need something cool to attract some attetion in college.
I was wondering...as someone on www.pocketpcthoughts.com pointed out....if a CF card is put in, can the NX70 be folded into original PDA mode?


"Now thats just PRIME!"

RE: PDA Mode
terrysalmi @ 9/27/2002 1:28:57 AM #
Yes it will. If you look at the pictures, the screen goes above the CF card and rotates far above the CF Slot - ASSUMING that the CF Card is flush with the end of the socket.

______________________________________
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
-Hubert Humphrey
RE: PDA Mode
Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 2:37:31 AM #
what picture are you referring to?
in other words, in a polite way of course, where is the source?

"Now thats just PRIME!"
RE: PDA Mode
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 3:44:45 AM #
I don't think you need to open it that far to rotate the screen, so CF cards should never prevent putting it into "PDA mode". The microphone is completely covered though along with all hardware buttons.

I had figured Sony would drop this form factor. The NR sold in very small numbers. Most people want a PDA, not this massive flip-twist-fold freak.

RE: PDA Mode
robrecht @ 9/27/2002 9:24:21 AM #
Hey, TerrySalmi.

Glad to know that someone else remembers Hubert Humphey!

Thanks, Robrecht

RE: PDA Mode
IanJD @ 9/27/2002 10:06:20 AM #
"The microphone is completely covered though along with all hardware buttons."

Maybe there is a hole in the opposite side of the casing so that the same microphone could "hear" inside and out?

RE: PDA Mode
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 10:26:47 AM #
> Glad to know that someone else remembers Hubert Humphey!

Glad to see they're teaching him something in that history class at school.

Standard Apps in OS5

Cheetah @ 9/27/2002 2:02:08 AM #
The PDF file had screen shots of the standard PIM apps. From the screen shots there were NO changes to these apps.

Why didn't Palm give us a couple of nice enhancements to these standard apps with the new OS. I'm not asking for a lot, but color font choices would have been nice.

RE: Standard Apps in OS5
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 2:26:55 AM #
you got browser, that's it.
RE: Standard Apps in OS5
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 2:31:16 AM #
Because the freaking sucks , they got no clue how to make hardware, they got even less clue in making software. Looking at those software bundled on clie makes me think ... what have Palm INC. done in the past few years ?? ...

Software innovation ?? ZERO
Hardware innovation ?? NONE

RE: Standard Apps in OS5
Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 2:35:26 AM #
They also dont have enough money to even light the damn buildings where the programmers are working, and you want them to add more junk into the PIM?
Palm is known for simplicity, they didnt want to change it, or make it hard for some people.
And remember: They dont have enough funding for anything anymore.
Hopefully as PalmSource is seperated, the revenues will be generating, and they'll be able to hire programmers from universities, not county colleges.

"Now thats just PRIME!"
RE: Standard Apps in OS5
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 3:25:34 AM #
There is a fine line between simplicity and too simple... But what's on Palm OS is nothing more than too simple disgusting as simplicity. If you want simplicity look at Apple, elegant yet powerful. Powerful yet simple.
RE: Standard Apps in OS5
Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 12:13:37 PM #
But to be honest, they wanted a simple move. OS4-OS5 would be only hardware related. OS5-OS6 would be all software.

"Now thats just PRIME!"

Palm's ahead!

Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 2:43:05 AM #
Palm's actually ahead....
Palm has a nice, silvery D-Pad on their handheld.
Very nice for OS5 gaming :)

"Now thats just PRIME!"
RE: Palm's ahead!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 6:14:06 AM #
A nice, silvery D-Pad placed squarely in the middle of the device. Not-so-nice for gaming to be honest. "Prime" gaming location for a D-pad is on the left.
RE: Palm's ahead!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 8:59:32 AM #
dude, you think that Palm's head of Sony because of "gaming", if that's you criteria then a GameBoy is ahead of both Sony and Palm!!

Wohoo!! The GameBoy is going to run both Palm and Sony out of business!!!

RE: Palm's ahead!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 12:14:58 PM #
HEY!
THe only reason im buying an expensive Sony, is to make people jealous and feel bad. I couldnt care less if I used it once or not, or if I actually put data into it!

D-Pad??? 16Mb???

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 7:36:09 AM #
Where is the D-pad??? Only 16Mb??? Interpolated digital camera??? Even if its a 640x480 camera its still not good enough! Crappy buttons? Dreaded NR design! CF slot NOT for CF memory!!! What the hell is going on??? Wasted space. 8oz??? Heavy!!! This is more like a mini laptop than a PDA! Luckily Palm and hopefully Handspring won't create oversize junks like this. If they do PocketPC devices will seem more plausible.
RE: D-Pad??? 16Mb???
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 8:12:09 AM #
Yes, I agree!!! I want a D-Pad!!! I also want 128Mb!!! I also think that the camera should be at least 4 megapixels!!! They should make all of the features we demand on a 2oz 3x4 inch chasis!!! This junks better be cheaper than $200!!! Light!!! I can't lift 8oz!!! What the hell is going on??? Luckily Handspring won't create oversize junks like this because they will be out of business!!! You and me!!! We can run Sony better and finally make their junks into profitable junks!!!
RE: D-Pad??? 16Mb???
Fzara2000 @ 9/27/2002 12:08:48 PM #
LOL.
I hope someone comes out with a hack for the CF Slot.


"Now thats just PRIME!"

RE: D-Pad??? 16Mb???
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 12:21:19 PM #
Even if somebody come up with a hack. you still have to write driver for all those CF cards. Sony isn't exactly loved by the Linux geek bunch, the most prodigious independent driver writers. So the only hope is OEM, or small commercial outfit. (what is the chance somebody open a business for selling a couple of meager driver hack?)
RE: D-Pad??? 16Mb???
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 1:39:38 PM #
Even if you could figure out the hardware to write a CF slot driver, the Palm OS hasn't been too open in the past for driver development either. I wanted to develop a network driver a while back and basically found out there was no architecture to write your own drivers like that (at least not available to non-licensees). Hopefully that situation will improve with OS 5. I assume some of the prior issues were because of the limitations in Palm's license of the Kadak(?) kernel on previous devices. My understanding is that Palm has their own kernel for OS 5.

RE: D-Pad??? 16Mb???
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 6:50:38 PM #
"Linux geek bunch, the most prodigious independent driver writers."

The Linux geek bunch may well produce a set of CF drivers--but it would probably require installing Linux :-) And maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

Clie Video Teaser and NX70V

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 12:51:08 PM #
I doubt it is the NX70V being used in the clie_video@hotmail.com teaser.mov.

Proof=

NX70V .pdf file clearly states that MPEG-4 video records at 160x116 resolution. The video being distributed is at 214x160 resolution. Hmm?!?!?!

Kinda but not really proof=

NX70V has black camera swivel... Camera swivel in movie is same color as the handheld. (Could have been a prototype though).

SO WHO'S GOING TO SCREW WITH THE CF SLOT?

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/27/2002 11:57:42 PM #
What I want to know is:

When's someone going to come out with a software change that'll let people use the CF slot on the NX with memory cards? It should be possible....I hope. Another question - Will having a 200mhz palm be something to cry over when the 400mhz palms come out? I think i'm going to wait for the sony after the NX series.

RE: SO WHO'S GOING TO SCREW WITH THE CF SLOT?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 3:38:52 AM #
I agree. After seeing that it's almost an INCH thick, has the ORIGINAL iPAQ's battery life on super-brite backlight, and a non-functional CF slot.

This might not even make it overseas when it bombs in Japan. This things simply too huge and too power hungry to make it in the real world.

RE: SO WHO'S GOING TO SCREW WITH THE CF SLOT?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 5:39:04 AM #
Stop CF bashing. Listen you don't have to use the CF slot if you don't want to. It also has MS slot, you have memory with MS card.

Get rid of the forum! It's completely useless!

RE: SO WHO'S GOING TO SCREW WITH THE CF SLOT?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 10:32:53 AM #
CF Bashing? Seems like Sony's the one who's CF bashing by limiting the included slot to only it's branded 802.11 cards. I have a 340mb microdrive sittin here that I would love to use in a Palm to store literally EVERYTHING. I'm definietely waiting for the next Sony OS 5 device. Something that has a screen as large as the NX's (with virtual graffiti), no useless keyboard, and if a CF slot, then a usefull one. Battery life? I turn my palm on once every fifty minutes for six hours, but only for a minute at a time - which is quite enough battery life for me. However, what's going to happen what I want to listen to some music? Or watch a video? Or play a game? The new Zayo PPC has an edition with a second embedded battery in it. Perhaps sony should look into this. And did someone earlier mention "CF Battery Packs?" Oh well.
RE: SO WHO'S GOING TO SCREW WITH THE CF SLOT?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 12:57:53 PM #
Um, idiot, you dont turn on your Clie to watch movies or listen to music for an extended period of time. If you wanna do that junk, get a laptop, with a decent quality enough screen.
About the CF Slot....You never know...Sony could make some CF cards developed for the NX70.
And also...if you wanna have enough battery to do anything and not have to worry about a CF battery pack, just stick with OS4.
RE: SO WHO'S GOING TO SCREW WITH THE CF SLOT?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 5:46:21 PM #
Idiot? If I didn't want to watch movies or listen to music, I would get myself a monochrome Palm OS 4 device. Looks like you're the idiot. I don't give a crap if Sony makes CF cards for the Clie, because they will be overpriced, and I still won't be able to use my Microdrive.
RE: SO WHO'S GOING TO SCREW WITH THE CF SLOT?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/28/2002 5:58:21 PM #
So turning on your Clie to listen to music is something only an idiot would do. And you should walk around with a laptop to do that instead. Hmmm
Hello, anyone at home ???

RE: SO WHO'S GOING TO SCREW WITH THE CF SLOT?
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/29/2002 10:47:41 AM #
> When's someone going to come out with a software change that'll let people
> use the CF slot on the NX with memory cards? It should be possible....I hope.

Distantly possible, but highly unlikekly. Palm has made it rather difficult in the past for non-licensees to write device drivers for Palm OS. There is no sign that will change for OS 5. You'd also have to figure out how the hardware on the NX even works to write a driver anyhow. Then there are dozens of different CF cards that would each need their own driver. Lastly, this device will sell in very small numbers, so the demand for that kind of driver development would be very low in any case.

NX Series at Best Buy

hobbit @ 11/3/2002 8:26:31 PM #
I played around with both and I really like the feel of the stylus on the V.Graffiti area, it's not slipery like my 710, and displaying the pen stroke in place was cool.
The standard Apps looked unchanged to me, but faster!
Voice recording was nice.
The form factor w/CF slot should be fine if you carry on your hip.

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