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Comments on: Palm Tungsten T Review

Tungsten T logoPalm Inc.'s new flagship model is the Tungsten T, their first device running the new Palm OS5 on an ARM-architecture processor. The Tungsten T has an intriguing compact design, a vibrant high-resolution screen, advanced multimedia capabilities and integrated Bluetooth wireless technology. Read on for the in depth review by PIC Handheld Hardware Guru, Dan Royea.
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great review

spike @ 10/30/2002 3:59:47 PM #
great review... but haven't got a chance to finish it =)

RE: great review
Mr T @ 10/30/2002 5:07:17 PM #
I second that. An Excellent Review of what appears to be an Excellent PDA. Congrats to palm. I shall become a Tungsten T owner as soon as I can find one in stock at the local Staples.

Thanks Again and Kudos to the team at PIC for providing such an informative review.

Mr. T

RE: great review
graph @ 10/30/2002 8:19:22 PM #
I was hoping palm would avoid sony's mistake of choosing brighter screen and faster processor over battery life. it was something good that sets apart sony and palm.

RE: great review
zipwire @ 10/30/2002 8:24:45 PM #
Finally, Palm has managed to dig themselves out of the hole they have been stuck for so long. Saying that, I hope this time around they have tested the machine to death and not face issues they had with the m505 cradle or something like that.

I have long given up Palm and moved to Sony but this time I might just move back to Palm. Congrats, Palm!

RE: great review
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 8:30:40 PM #
graph: I was hoping palm would avoid sony's mistake of choosing brighter screen and faster processor over battery life.

A little perspective: (1) the screen is very bright and I personally set it at around 25% (2) the ARM processors provide exceptional MIPS/mW performance. I haven't had time to get long-terms battery life figures, but subjectively-speaking, the TT has been able to provide all-day heavy use on a single charge.

- D

RE: great review
hotpaw4 @ 10/30/2002 8:44:40 PM #
Preliminary tests of the Tungsten T battery life with backlight on the lowest setting, CPU 90%+ idle, bluetooth off, temperature 72 to 68 degrees F, from a 2 full hour charge: 4.5 hours till the first battery warning, another 30 minutes of annoying extremely low voltage warnings before I ended the test. Preliminary indications are that the battery life might be 30% to 40% greater with the backlight off; still not enough for a cross country plane flight. This is roughly in the same ballpark as the T615C.
RE: great review
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 9:37:05 PM #
That's very interesting Ron - what application did you use for the 90% idle test? I haven't done any formal testing yet, but got 4+ hours using PalmReader, reading ebook from SD card, screen brightness set quite low (maybe 15-20% on the slider bar).

- Dan

RE: great review
Larken @ 10/31/2002 8:33:03 AM #
I got my hands on a demo of the Tungsten T last night. I was very impressed. My wife has a T665 and I have a m515 currently. We compared them side by side, and the Tungsten display was superb. Icons and fonts were as crisp as I've seen, and the background was the closest I've seen to actual white. Even with the backlight turned off, the display was easy to read in typical office lighting. I didn't see any native apps to make noise on the unit, so I beamed Bejewelled over to it, and the speaker sounded quite nice compared to the m515 speaker. Sound quality was on par with the T665, but the max volume was not as high. The stylus felt good in your hand as long as it was telescoped out; it was a bit too short for my hand in it's small form. I was impressed at the lack of friction as the stylus glided across the digitizer. My only concern with this unit was in regards to .mp3 playback. It doesn't seem to be "made" for that as much as the T665, so I would be interested in seeing what kind of drain that puts on power. I also didn't know if an .mp3 player application would support powering down the screen during playback like the Sony hardware does. All in all, I would say that Palm has put out a fantastic unit. I will definitely be picking on up as soon as I find a buyer for my m515. If anyone is interested, let me know :)

RE: great review
ardee @ 10/31/2002 9:11:23 AM #
Yup, a VERY well-done review. And that's rare. ;-)


Sony beware
speed-angel @ 10/31/2002 9:32:06 AM #
I am a sony fan but I think I am only willing to wait another 2 months for the next T series. Otherwise I might just switch back to Palm.

The reason I am waiting is that I don't quite like the form factor still but the features and functions of the new Tungsten is quite impressive. Based on the track-record I am willing to wait until the new T-series comes out since they are quite innovative and if the NX series is an indication, I sure am looking forward to the new model.

RE: great review
andykk @ 10/31/2002 10:11:10 AM #
The review is really great.
But I am quite curious about the memory space of the unit. How many RAM is available for loading applications on to it? I'm quite worry about it as I know that OS5 would utilize some of the RAM for running. I've a chance to see another review (detailed) of the new NX70 of Sony, it has 16 MB RAM but not all is available for user to use. And plugging in the Sony CF WLan card used up extra memeory for the drivers which the review claim to used up another 5MB of RAM. So let's do the maths and only a merely 10 MB maybe left. For users like me who use Chinese OS would require about 2 MB of RAM for the storage, which means maybe no more than 10 MB is usable......
I really worry about it, can anyone from PIC get more information about the memory situation of this unit?

RE: great review
palmist @ 10/31/2002 11:19:13 AM #
14MB for users, 2MB for swap/scratch (it isn't clear yet) space.

Should be plenty for most of us. If not, stick in a memory card.

RE: great review
vincepalm @ 11/4/2002 6:24:11 AM #
Yes, great review :)
But were is the Java Virtual Machine?
Is it included with the software bundle?
I don't see any mention of it in the palm.com web site. Palmsource was supposed to partner with insignia.com to bundle it with PalmOS 5!
This is a big disappointment!
RE: Sony beware
nanurse @ 11/4/2002 6:45:23 PM #
I'm with you on the next T series. I've now looked at both the Tungsten and the NX series and they appear to be on opposite ends of the spectrum. The NX series is way too large a form factor, forget about sticking that thing in shirt pocket and the Tungsten, though it's small has no built in ability to play MP3, okay so what if 3rd party vendors are working on it, I seem to remember something about it you won't be able to play music in suspend mode like Sony's hold feature. I'm not sold on that slider mechanism either, what's the purpose? If they really wanted to make it functional then that are should have been a virtual Grafiti area, the unit is small as it is so getting rid of 3/4 inch isn't any big deal. Sony better rethink that wireless LAN slot also. Maybe I'm just slow but I'm not planning on the surfing the web on my PDA and if I'm close enough to wireless hub, I', gonna use my protable. What I would like however is the T series to have built in Bluetooth. I can transfer my mail from my cell to my palm using Bluetooth and that just makes good 'ol common sense. If I'm going to plop down 500 for another PDA it will have the following:

1. Voice Record (long overdue on Palm)
2. Built in Bluetooth, how hard can it be, they can fit it onto a memory stick
3. Palm OS 5 (It's defintely faster than 4.1)
4. The ability to play MP3s out of the box
5. A formfactor that fits into my shirt pocket.

Is that asking too much, come on Sony and Palm, don't make think about Pocket PC!

RE: great review
johnsoax @ 11/5/2002 10:31:38 AM #
Well The TT satisfies 4 out of the 5 of your requirements. That sounds pretty good to me. MP3 on the handheld is overrated. (Thats why I have a Archos Jukebox - 20 gigs and it records).

Alex Johnson
<><

Proud Owner of a Handera 330

RE: great review
Fernando @ 11/11/2002 6:20:50 PM #
palm TT will have mp3 playback available free as soon as real networks and palm are done working on this... if any palm programmer is reading, HOW MUCH LONGER UNTIL TT GETS MP3 PLAYBACK? it should've been included out of the box....
RE: great review
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:43:46 PM #
Very well written review. Almost wants me to cut off my arm to get one.
How can I afford one? For the money they are worth, I can't cough up that cough as a youngen.
RE: great review
TTrules @ 5/24/2003 6:18:56 PM #
I am just letting everyone know that I got my TT for $298.00 over buydig.com
RE: great review
Linus @ 6/4/2003 4:09:02 AM #
Seeing as the Tungsten T has a mic, speaker and bluetooth shouldn't there be some software to make the T act as a bluetooth handset to connect with a bluetooth phone?

Processor Speed

Drummer4Life05 @ 10/30/2002 4:06:32 PM #
How fast is the processor? I don't think I saw it in the review...

RE: Processor Speed
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 4:09:56 PM #
The OMAP 1510 is a dual-core processor: the ARM925 is 144MHz and the C55x is 200MHz

- Dan

Movies

Dcee @ 10/30/2002 4:09:20 PM #
Has anyone tried to play movies on this????

I cant wait for this to be released in the UK

RE: Movies
Admin @ 10/30/2002 4:46:23 PM #
Check out Kinoma Player:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4467

Movies are excellent on the Tungsten T, think of the possibilities for mobile sales presenations, entertainment, etc...

RE: Movies
paul10010 @ 10/30/2002 5:25:46 PM #
It is available in the UK I live in Derby and Ive got one, and its great!
RE: Movies
irv @ 10/30/2002 6:44:44 PM #
Who has it in stock ! I could order one from Palm Direct but there is no delivery info, Dabs.com and Expansys.com both say within 3-10 days, but I want to walk into a shop and buy one......PC World? Dixons? BTW I live on the South Coast, so please don't say "Derby Electronics" !!!

RE: Movies
Zuber @ 10/31/2002 2:51:21 AM #
Just ordered it online from a big name retailer for £299 (inc. VAT). It might be a missprint, so I'll have to see if it turns up or I get a phone call. If it does turn up, I'll let you know ASAP.

If it is widely available for £299 including VAT, then I'll take back everything I said about it being overpriced.

Zuber

RE: Movies
simonwhitaker @ 10/31/2002 3:46:25 AM #
Ah Zuber!

Wanna let us know which retailer it is? Please?

RE: Movies
simonwhitaker @ 10/31/2002 4:40:10 AM #
Don't worry - i found it. At the current exchange rate, i make UK£299.99 = US$464 including all taxes.

It must be a mistake so i called them up and they confirmed that "although they don't have them in stock, or on the system, the quoted website price is the price that i'll pay".

We'll see i guess ;)

RE: Movies
gemikon @ 10/31/2002 5:15:37 AM #
Hi! can you please tell me where the TT is already available in UK? Especially in London?

RE: Movies
IanJD @ 10/31/2002 6:35:34 AM #
I'm intrigued; I've seen it as low as £340, who has it for under £300?

RE: Carphone Warehouse
Norm @ 10/31/2002 1:23:33 PM #
Had a problem with my credit card so had to phone them. The price is a mistake and it will go up to £399.99 tomorrow. They will honour any orders made today at £299.99. You can phone them up to 8pm or try online.

They have just got stock and I hope mine may still go out today for delivery tomorrow although I won't know for sure until tomorrow.

RE: Movies
IanJD @ 10/31/2002 4:29:52 PM #
Thanks for the tip; mine will apparently ship tomorrow to turn up on monday. Time to find out how many of my 70 apps will survive to OS5...

RE: Movies
paul10010 @ 10/31/2002 4:35:19 PM #
Got mine from www.palm.com/uk for £389. Ordered Monday recieved wednesday. Dont bother waiting for the shops just order one you wont be dissapointed!! The next accessory I will buy for my TT is an Armani suit and a pair of Ray-Bans, it looks so cool!

RE: Carphone warehouse
Zuber @ 10/31/2002 7:17:11 PM #
Beat me too it.

Just got an email confirming the Order will be dispatched when I got home. I thought the price might be a mistake and expected a phone call/email saying sorry but ...

Good to see they will be sending the goods. Hope you guys all visit the site and get the orders in before the site update. I just checked, and it is still showing at £299

Zuber

Zuber



RE: Movies
SPACEBAR @ 10/31/2002 10:57:37 PM #
Zuber, can you tell me which retailer it is? Please?
RE: Movies
Zuber @ 11/1/2002 2:23:27 AM #
Sorry, I went to bed after posting last night.

Price on the site is now £399. Made my day.

A assumed the retailer was clear from the title. Carphone Warehouse. Hope you figured it out.

So everyone that bought it at £299 is going to send me £10 as agreed yes :)

Zuber

Zuber

RE: Carphone Warehouse
Norm @ 11/1/2002 2:35:30 AM #
IT'S ARRIVED! IT'S TINY! Bit heavier than it looks but I was spoilt by my old Palm V.

Box a bit damaged, which is annoying as I tend to keep boxes. It's got six languages - hence my question posted below about JackSprat support. The default date when first starting was 5 August 2001!

(Now all I have to do, apart from installing all my apps, is sell my NR70V with load of accessories, like a Vaja case and 128mb memory sticks. Anyone interested before I start going to ebay? The accessories I'd mail anywhere but the NR70V only to the UK.)

Thinking of importing a 256mb Sandisk SD card for about £105. Anyone else in the UK want to join me in a bulk buy to save postage?

RE: Movies
Zuber @ 11/1/2002 3:16:30 AM #
Not fair, I ordered mine first :)

Regarding getting an SD card from abroad. I'd be careful if I were you. You may end up paying Duty on it when it arrives and hence find it cheaper to buy local. Plus, there are garantee issues etc.

Hope I get mine today or I'm going to return it and cancel my otder (Not).

Zuber

RE: Movies
Zuber @ 11/1/2002 11:50:15 AM #
One Tungsten T just arrived

Zuber

RE: Movies
drsimnal @ 11/4/2002 7:00:14 PM #
Hey guys--I got the Kinoma app to play movie trailers. I downloaded Spiderman from the Sony site, but when I played it there was no sound! What did I do wrong?
Thanks, Andrea

Dust problem with Tungsten T from CarphoneWarehouse.com
Jedi Knight @ 11/5/2002 12:08:59 PM #
Hi everybody,

I was one of the "fortunate" people who got the TT for 299.99 from the CarphoneWarehouse online shop. After a close inspection of the screen to see whether there were any dust problems (see other threads), I unfortunately found to small pieces of dust. I phoned CarphoneWarehouse and guess what they said?

Quite a number of people have already phoned them to report the dust problem. Seems that CarphoneWarehouse got a bad batch of TTs. So everyone who bought the TT there, check the screen carefully. BTW, CarphoneWarehouse is going to replace the TT next day in an exchange with the old one. So good on them, but Palm Inc really needs to get their act sorted out.



RE: Movies
davidb @ 11/5/2002 7:59:08 PM #
My Tungsten from CPW arrived without the protective film on the screen and had a scratch on the screen. I suspect this is not Palms fault,

Anyway CPW are exchanging it today.

That's it
Jedi Knight @ 11/6/2002 6:51:14 AM #
I've received my second TT from CarphoneWarehouse and it had a dead pixel. I've got enough of Palm Inc and the new TT. I'm going to return the device, invest in a Sony SJ30 and wait until Palm has solved the teething problems. I should have followed that rule that one should never buy the first release. Wait until the fixed the bugs.

How is the rest of you doing with their TT?

Dust problem with Tungsten T from CarphoneWarehouse.com
IanJD @ 11/6/2002 7:07:23 AM #
I also had some dust under the screen of my CW-sourced TT, which I could have lived with, but a oddly-failing backlight, which I couldn't. Waiting for the replacement today...

That's it
IanJD @ 11/6/2002 7:17:12 AM #
"I've received my second TT from CarphoneWarehouse and it had a dead pixel."

I went through four m505s before I was happy with the screen brightness, dead pixels and dust, and three Clie NR70Vs over the MS problem and dead pixels - with the NR70V I eventually decided to settle with the one with only one defective pixel in an obscure area because it's such a workup to convince Sony to issue an RMA.

My tack is to keep sending em back till you're happy; it's not as if it's costing you anything, and CPW shouldn't have an issue with you, they should be giving Palm hell for sending them duff stuff.


RE: Movies
slacky @ 12/6/2002 1:59:13 AM #
Got mine from Tottenham COurt Road for £360. It is the dogs! Small, fast, easy to use. Haven't tried movies yet and looking to see if there are 3rd party MP3 players but all in all very pleased... Huge step up from my Palm 3!

RE: Movies
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:45:00 PM #
Do the movies have good quality?
And what size are they? Can you play music videos? full movies?

-Andrew
_______________________________________
Email me about anything at
andrewholler@rogers.com
Current PDA:= Palm M130
by the way, Can someone buy me a TT?

What about the Universal Connector?

Nosmat @ 10/30/2002 4:09:47 PM #
Does this model support hardware add-on’s that have been made for the m500 series?

RE: What about the Universal Connector?
Gekko @ 10/30/2002 4:20:05 PM #
the m5xx cradles/chargers work but some peripherals may not without an updated driver (ex PPK)

RE: What about the Universal Connector?
dboehme @ 10/30/2002 6:37:28 PM #
There are some devices that use both the universal connector on the bottom as well as the two plastic indendtations on the back (m505) to attach. Specifically, I'm thinking about the Magellan GPS Companion. Obviously drivers are not available yet, but if that's all that's needed, I'll buy the TT and hope for the drivers. (I use my m505 with my GPS Companion quite a bit)

RE: What about the Universal Connector?
bcombee @ 10/30/2002 10:41:43 PM #
The TT has the two notches in the back -- they are part of the sliding part of the device, so devices that hook onto there should work. Those notches are actually part of the Palm Universal Connector specification, so devices designed to that spec should be physically compatible with the TT. Devices that use the connector but rely on other physical attributes (like the i705 thumbboard), won't work.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
PPK works witrh updated driver !!
mstur @ 11/10/2002 2:54:25 PM #
Great news for everyone !!
Palm has heard us: they are now offering the 1.9 beta driver for the Stowaway keyboard on their support website:

http://www.palm.com/support/beta/tungstent_keyboard_legal.html

I installed it in my Palm Tungsten T, and it works even with my German keyboard.



AppCheck OS 4+ only

ganoe @ 10/30/2002 4:12:51 PM #
In case you're thinking of upgrading from your OS 3.x or earlier Palm OS device, don't waste your time with AppCheck to see if your applications will work. You'll be not so kindly greeted with a message that it requires OS 4 or later to run. Kind of ironic.
RE: AppCheck OS 5+ only????????
Gekko @ 10/30/2002 4:19:09 PM #
AppCheck did not work on my m515.

RE: AppCheck OS 4+ only
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 4:42:12 PM #
I believe it's intended as a utility for TT owners only.

- D

RE: AppCheck OS 4+ only
Gekko @ 10/30/2002 4:57:42 PM #
that makes no sense. wouldn't a prospective TT owner who is a current OS1-OS4.x owner like to check his apps on his pre-TT device PRIOR to buying the TT?

RE: AppCheck OS 5+ only
ganoe @ 10/30/2002 5:02:14 PM #
> I believe it's intended as a utility for TT owners only.

Yep, I think you are right. I believe I mistakenly interpreted "Palm AppCheck for the Palm Tungsten T" as meaning that it checks to see if your apps will work on the Tungsten T. Apparently they mean AppCheck is ONLY "for the Palm Tungsten T". Still, it's odd that it pops up a dialog saying that it requires OS 4.

RE: AppCheck OS 4+ only
ganoe @ 10/30/2002 10:04:37 PM #
Part two. I had e-mailed Palm earlier about this today and received a response:

"The current version App Check is compatible with Palm OS(R) 4.0 or higher only. A version of Palm App compatible with the earlier Palm OS versions might
release soon. However, I am unable to provide you the exact time limit for release of this application."

So ... I have no idea why it wouldn't work in a m515.

RE: AppCheck OS 4+ only
karlie @ 10/31/2002 12:49:57 AM #

App check for the Tungsten is, as it says, for the Tungsten.
The 'user manual' says run it and it tells you which application must be removed from your device.
I guess it's a Palm OS 5 small debugging environment with traps for non OS5 compatible calls.

Buy a Tungsten, we'll tell you which applications you should not have bought!

RE: AppCheck OS 4+ only
IanJD @ 11/6/2002 9:00:22 AM #
Running this flagged up two applications which are apparently incompatible (including APCalc, which I've found works fine), and listed unknown for the rest.

I'd suggest this application is just checking the names of applications against a database of known compatibles and incompatibles.

Microphone

Gekko @ 10/30/2002 4:16:49 PM #
where exactly is the microphone? Right next to the recording button?

EXCELLENT review Dan!

RE: Microphone
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 4:51:38 PM #
Thanks Gekko,

If you look at the side view image, you'll see the Voice Recording button and the headphone jack. Now, you see that little hole right between them? That's the port for the mic.

- Dan

RE: Microphone
ganoe @ 10/30/2002 5:08:40 PM #
I wish they had included a microphone jack.
RE: Microphone
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 5:25:41 PM #
I'm hoping they develop the Bluetooth headset profile for the TT! :-)

- Dan

RE: Microphone
nakolo @ 10/30/2002 5:27:17 PM #
The microphone "hole" is extremely sensitive. And one of the cool things of the app is to tell you how much time is remaining. You can give it a unique title, then Hotsync it to the Palm Desktop and export it as a WAV file. How cool is that?!?!

Why can't I get more than 8MB on my IIIc?
RE: Microphone
Gekko @ 10/30/2002 5:52:16 PM #
Can you export .wavs from the PC to the TT and/or TT SD Card???

RE: Microphone
bcombee @ 10/30/2002 10:32:54 PM #
Dan, if I understand you correctly, you want to use your TT as a speaker/mike for a BT-enabled phone. I had the same idea earlier today, and I think we're both sick puppies for thinking of it. :)

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Microphone
margerum @ 10/31/2002 12:31:43 PM #
The sounds files are converted to wav files during your hotsync and are accessible through a palm desktop icon.

This unit is incredible.

One thing i didnt see mentioned is that the unit syncs so quick.

Clarification on keyboard comment

nyates @ 10/30/2002 4:16:39 PM #
"and Keyboard (v1.9T) for the Stowaway (and the *very* interesting-looking new Palm UltraThin Keyboard from ThinkOutside)."

Does this mean that out of the box it supports the 'PPK' stowaway keyboard as well as the 'UltraThin Keyboard'? This is a big issue to a lot of people and any clarification would be appreciated.


RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
Gekko @ 10/30/2002 4:21:29 PM #
you need a OS5 PPK driver that is not public yet and may not even exist yet

RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
PDA Guy @ 10/30/2002 4:21:49 PM #
No. It appears that Dan doesn't have an actual production device. Not only does the keyboard driver NOT come in ROM, his comment about the built-in four apps not switching through the various categories is also incorrect (as anyone with a T-T will attest).

My guess is that Palm sent him a pre-production device to review. Which is ok, but it just doesn't exactly match what is shipping and for sale. :)

RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
SaabCaptain @ 10/30/2002 5:13:43 PM #
I also found that comment strange... but perhaps as you suggest he doesn't have a regular TT.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 5:57:28 PM #
Thanks for the clarification Cal - fixes are in the works.

re: the hard buttons cycling through categories: in testing the TT I did a lot of hard resets and then restores of different device backups hunting for bugs, "gotchas" etc. What happened was I'd restored some old ToDos etc. and the Categories didn't get restored, so everything was "unfiled", so of course there were no Categories to cycle through, and the device behaved as it should. My bad :)

re: the Keyboard driver (v1.9T) : my bad again: it isn't in ROM but is optionally installed during the automated setup process from CD. I've got some Stowaways here, but none with the Universal Connector (i.e. PPK) so I couldn't test it. Others have reported it does't work. Do you know the release schedule for the updated driver?

Thanks,

Dan

RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
Zorglub @ 10/30/2002 7:10:16 PM #
I havent seen the keyboard driver anywhere on the 2 CDs that come with the TT. In fact I found the following note on the Palm site:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R1A632A42

which I find kind of worrysome. I hope they dont make us upgrade our keyboards once again (already did from Vx to m505). It's a UNIVERSAL connector for crying out loud.

RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 7:51:56 PM #
Zorglub: I havent seen the keyboard driver anywhere on the 2 CDs that come with the TT.

Did you do the "Installation" from CD1? I think the keyboard.prc is buried within the executable installer - I don't see it as a separate file anywhere either, but v1.9T was installed on the review TT during this process. I don't have the PPK with a Universal Connector, so couldn't verify that it doesn't work.

- D

RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
Zorglub @ 10/30/2002 8:04:17 PM #
Yes, I installed all the software from both CD1 and CD2. I've looked on my Palm and no keyboard.prc. Putting the Palm on the PPK launches the HotSync screen which confirms that the driver is not installed.

Dunno, maybe they pulled out the driver at the last minute? I'm using the European version, dunno if there is a difference there. If you can post the file somewhere I'll give it a try to see if it works. I really hope this is not a marketing plot to get us to buy new hardware, we already bought the new TT !

RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
Ba-gug @ 10/30/2002 9:13:07 PM #
Me too!, I've looked all over the both CD's (USA) and no keyboard driver!!!

Please buy Palm stuff, I want my stock to go back up so I can sell it!
keyboard driver mystery
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 9:29:54 PM #
Hmm, I just looked through the bundled CDs and I didn't find the keyboard.prc either. Perhaps someone preloaded it onto the review unit before it was sent to me?

Are there any TT owners in PIC-land who have a version of the Keyboard driver (mine says 1.9T)

I hope you guys understand, but I'm not comfortable providing it for public distribution until I check with Palm and get authorization.

- Dan

Keyboards while using other I/O
hurshtx @ 10/31/2002 11:03:58 AM #
Is it known if the infrared port and/or Bluetooth will work while using a keyboard with the TT? This way I could use a keyboard while connected to the internet through a cellular phone with Bluetooth or an infrared modem. Of course if using the infrared I/O, would be hard to align the PDA and phone, but seems Bluetooth would be a good combination in this setup.
RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
Zorglub @ 10/31/2002 5:01:54 PM #
Dan - I've tried the 1.9 driver (RC2) and it works fine with the keyboard. So I guess my fears were unfounded after all. I assume the driver will be released shortly and for free.

hurshtx - I dont think so. I think you can have only one serial port open at one time. The universal connector is one, so is IrDA and so is BT.

RE: Clarification on keyboard comment
Palm_Otaku @ 11/8/2002 1:48:47 AM #
In case there's anyone who hadn't caught this in other threads, the beta TT/PPK driver is available at:
<http://www.palm.com/support/tungstent/>

- D

TT and BT

CGordonn @ 10/30/2002 4:21:17 PM #
Now if only SprintPCS would support a Bluetooth enabled phone.

RE: TT and BT
nyates @ 10/30/2002 4:26:20 PM #
Amen to that.

RE: TT and BT
jjsoh @ 10/30/2002 4:56:11 PM #
Or any other company in the USA that's not TMobile! Heh.

I only know of that one SonyEricsson model that's available (from TMobile), but does anyone know of other cell phones with BT support from other providers here in the States?

Jim

RE: TT and BT
Psikotic @ 10/30/2002 5:11:58 PM #
AT&T offers the T68i. Also, there are several other ericsson and nokia models that support bluetooth.

RE: TT and BT
mfs @ 10/30/2002 5:12:29 PM #
AT&T has the T68i... But what is wrong with t-mobile? it works great for me. My new TT and T68i work great. The only thing I can not get to work is the Palm SMS app.



RE: TT and BT
MaryJoS @ 10/30/2002 5:17:19 PM #
No with Verizon either. But keep emailing them, if enough people ask for them, maybe we will see them someday!

RE: TT and BT
Admin @ 10/30/2002 6:07:44 PM #
The AT&T 68i is locked into the AT&T service and only works if you have an AT&T sim card. Major bummer!
RE: TT and BT
Rhauer @ 10/30/2002 6:31:22 PM #
Admin - can you help. What is a Sim card. Is AT&T expected to over a more "Palm OS" friendly bluetooth phone. I really want to get my email on my new TT but it seems confusing. Especially w/At&T

RE: TT and BT
joelforeman @ 10/30/2002 7:22:45 PM #
Verizon does have BT capabilities if you have a Motorola Timeport 270c with the Bluetooth Module. Check this link out if you don't believe me! http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1E622A42

RE: TT and BT
Scott R @ 10/30/2002 8:19:10 PM #
I'd love a Verizon 2.5G Motorola Startac w/Bluetooth and all-you-can-eat wireless data for $10/month extra for Xmas.

Verizon is about the only carrier that I can get a solid signal at my house with. But I'd be willing to switch to someone else if the price was right. Sprint has the right data plan. Verizon has the best coverage. T-Mobile has some cool phones, a couple with Bluetooth. Though I don't get why they only put BT in the super-fancy color phones. I'd like to see a cheap, bare-bones B&W flip-phone with BT seeing as I'd want to pair it up with a nice handheld ala the Tungsten T.

Scott

Tungsten is boring
lechter @ 10/30/2002 9:51:05 PM #
Ho hum.

At this point any Palm without built in cellular is behind two years. What is the purpose of being disconnected if you care enough to keep all the information handy?

And what is the purpose of a Palm next to the PC? Really the Palm is most useful when on the road, and people who care about "having the information" care about "being in touch, with emails, attachments, news, etc."

Tungsten is toasted.

Let's see the W. That's coming soon, like in 4 months!

By then Treo 400 and others will be out.

RE: TT and BT
forloop @ 10/30/2002 11:37:05 PM #
Lechter: Two devices means greater collective battery life. I can run my T68i to death and still look up appointments and read news on my Palm. I can upgrade my phone and PDA independantly of one another. If you're into a single device, then by all means gets one. But don't think we all want that.

As for connectivity: Bluetooth between my TT and my T68i allows me to stay connected just fine. YMMV.

RE: TT and BT
gfunkmagic @ 10/31/2002 4:31:21 AM #
CGordon, I agree with you! Sprint where is your BT phone? Also as a side not, what about the new Kyocera 7135 with BT card plus a Tungsten T? Yeah I know, total overload, especially on my wallet...

RE: TT and BT
Fly-By-Night @ 10/31/2002 5:59:49 AM #
>>> I'd like to see a cheap, bare-bones B&W flip-phone with BT seeing as I'd want to pair it up with a nice handheld ala the Tungsten T. <<<

Ericsson still do the T39 I believe. It's a 'flip' phone with BT 1.1 and quite a nice greyscale display; WAP and GPRS. It is also TriBand so should be available in USA. You can get them cheap (ie. free) in the UK with a new contract (if you can still find them); or about £150 (~$230) SIM free (and unlocked, obviously).

My girlfriend has one, and it's quite funky (though not as cool as my T68!).

As for converged devices (like Treo and T|W): most people do not want to carry a PDA with them *all* the time, but do need a mobile. Plus, I suspect a T|T T68i combo can perform many more functions than an OS4.1 T|W or whatever the Treo 400 will do.

RE: TT and BT
Taka @ 11/1/2002 3:04:04 PM #
I emailed to Sprint and got the following response:

------
This is in response to your inquiry regarding Bluetooth technology.

We are rapidly expanding our 100 percent digital network service;
however, for competitive reasons, we cannot provide you with the exact
date of our service launch. When we launch in a particular market,
you will be notified through a high profile promotion.
------

I hope we see Sprint PCS with built-in bluetooth very soon otherwise I may have to consider changing to AT&T or others.

Taka

RE: TT and BT
SwissFreek @ 11/7/2002 11:27:52 PM #
mfs, I have (had, waiting for my TT to arrive :) ) a m515 and I used PalmSMS for a short while, then switched to funSMS. Both worked pretty much out of the box with my T68i from T-Mobile. Found a nice page with setup stuff http://www.antonio.perrotta.com/palm/">here that gives settings on both the Palm and cell for the different Bluetooth functions. It says it's for the T39m, I used it and works with the T68i, just don't wanna pay 10 bucks a month for the internet APN, but SMS works off the same profile that WAP goes off, so that works fine.

Great review for a great unit

abosco @ 10/30/2002 4:11:30 PM #
Nothing else to be said but you did a great job on the review, Dan, and the Tungsten T is spectacular. I was wondering about the reliability of the sliding mechanism, and the 100,000 slide test is a good reassurance. I can't wait to try it out sometime soon!

RE: Great review for a great unit
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 5:50:40 PM #
Thanks Alex :)

It's very tough to make a judgement call about the long-term reliability of the slider - I've only had a few days "hands-on" so far, but my subjective experience is that it certainly "feels" solid. Frankly, the whole unit is highest quality throughout!

Any review worth it's salt will point out the bad as well as the good, and frankly it was tough to find any serious "Cons" - they're mostly nit-picks.

- D


OS upgradable?

ocspub @ 10/30/2002 4:49:22 PM #
My understanding is that Palm uses OS 5.0 for the TT.
Is there any indication from Palm that they'll provide
an upgrade when newer versions of the OS will become
available? (AFAIK, the Palm Simulator is already at
5.1 level). The use of flash ROM would seem to
indicate that they are planning upgrades...
RE: OS upgradable?
jjsoh @ 10/30/2002 5:00:55 PM #
: Is there any indication from Palm that they'll
: provide an upgrade when newer versions of the OS
: will become available? (AFAIK, the Palm Simulator
: is already at 5.1 level). The use of flash ROM
: would seem t indicate that they are planning
: upgrades...

Well, if you look at their history of support, then I'd say that the chances for UPDATES are pretty good, since you mentioned the 5.1 version, that's what I'm assuming you're referring to.

As far as UPGRADES are concerned, I'm not so certain (i.e. OS 6.0). And even if they do, it will probably be at a price, and not free like UPDATES.

Of course, having a flashable ROM doesn't mean that updates/upgrades are expected. I believe all Sony CLIE's ROMs are flashable but they rarely, if ever, provide either updates or upgrades for the OS.

Jim

RE: OS upgradable?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 7:14:04 PM #
oscpub: My understanding is that Palm uses OS 5.0 for the TT.
Is there any indication from Palm that they'll provide
an upgrade when newer versions of the OS will become
available?

Yep, the TT is running OS5.0.

I had a 30 minute call with the Tungsten T product manager late last week and asked about flash upgrades. The TT is defintely flash-upgradeable. Supposedly there will be incremental OS updates (5.1 etc.) released over time but there's no schedule or information that is publicly-available.

PalmSource Inc. hasn't released much information regarding what is being referred to as "OS the next big thing" (seriously!) and that the on-line User Community is calling OS6. What we do know is that it is for ARM-architecture devices. I'm betting that the TT will be flash-upgradeable to "OS-NBT" but that's just a gut feeling - I've got no solid info to back that up.

- Dan


RE: OS upgradable?
ocspub @ 10/30/2002 8:42:18 PM #
Thanks, Dan. Great review!

Closer look at the Browser options.

Zuber @ 10/30/2002 4:49:33 PM #
Nice review, look forward to the followup on Bluetooth etc. I'd be interested in seeing what sort of range you can access the net over, when using a long range bluetooth device on the PC (100 meter) and the 10 meter range on the palm. Would you be able to get a longer range as most of the traffic is to the palm ?

Any chance of taking a closer look at the Browser options, and how it compars with the Netfront browser that is shipping with the NX.

Zuber

RE: Closer look at the Browser options.
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 6:08:54 PM #
Hey Zuber :)

I'm really looking forward to following up on this some more, and will definitely be covering the browsers when I do the Bluetooth article.

I found a reasonably good deal on an Ericsson T86 on eBay and can't wait to start exploring...

- Dan

RE: Closer look at the Browser options.
Rhauer @ 10/30/2002 6:17:13 PM #
Ditto: Great review but I'm really looking foward to more about the Bluetooth. I'm very interested in the realities of sending and receiving emails.

Also, AT&T is selling the Sony/Ericson T68i but after 2 hours on the phone and 1 in the store I couldn't get an answer re: using the phones as a modem for the TT. Also, does anybody have experiance with the GSM/GPRS service, is it more restictive.

RE: Closer look at the Browser options.
sr @ 10/31/2002 2:47:20 AM #
I've used TT with my phone (Ericsson T39) over Bluetooth and GPRS in Canada (Fido), works like a charm!

Also, if your favourite GSM provider doesn't offer the phone you want just buy an unlocked phone from the web or ebay, if it works on North American GSM and it's unlocked it should work with any GSM provider.

SR

RE: Closer look at the Browser options.
skccs @ 10/31/2002 11:05:13 AM #
Is the Browser a hires Version? Does it Use 320 x 320 Resolution?

Christian Stocker
RE: Closer look at the Browser options.
Zuber @ 10/31/2002 12:08:19 PM #
I think it is fair to assume that the browser is high res (320 x320).

My problem is that I really like the look of the Netfront browser. It has a Zoom Out option thar displays 640 wide. That could be very useful. Only problem is taht Palm have decided not to include it. I hope it is possible to download and install it from PalmSource or something.

Zuber

Lit graffiti area?

Patrick @ 10/30/2002 5:00:05 PM #
With all the angst that occurred when the m515 was introduced last March without a lit graffiti area, I'm surprised no one else has asked about this yet!

Anyhow, it sure appears from the side-by-side screen photo in the review that the graffiti area is, once again, not lit.

Personally, I don't think this is such a big deal. However, I might feel that way because my m515's graffiti area actually does get lit by reflection of its wondrously bright screen.

I wonder if the TT benefits from the same coincidental lighting effect?

Like others have said... Great review... thx.


RE: Lit graffiti area?
SaabCaptain @ 10/30/2002 5:19:51 PM #
I find very little light from the screen lands on the graffiti area but frankly I don't mind. I owned a m505 and the lit area was great but no other Palm has EVER had such an area and we did without and so I will again. That said there must be a reason it isn't lit, ie. cost, battery life etc.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Lit graffiti area?
margerum @ 10/31/2002 12:38:37 PM #
doesnt seem to be lit but then again i wouldnt want this because i dont want the extra backlighting to drain the battery. What id really like is virtual graffiti.

RE: Lit graffiti area?
mopcodes @ 10/31/2002 10:25:43 PM #
The non-lighted grafitti area is a one main pet peeve I have with the TT. I have a lot of friends that work at night in low light conditions. How can they sneak around in the dark taking field notes with such a bright display giving their positions away?

Besides that pet peeve I guess another would be the inability to exit an app with the home button hidden when the machine is reduced in size or closed.

D. Martin
Former Amiga/Commodore Author/Writer/Reviewer

RE: Lit graffiti area?
simonwhitaker @ 11/1/2002 4:31:29 AM #
RE: Lit graffiti area?
nyates @ 11/1/2002 9:40:10 AM #
If you hold the select button in for about 1.5 seconds inside ANY application it will take you to the launcher (home)

PIC scarred?

ska @ 10/30/2002 5:07:17 PM #

"Unofficial test results from an unnamed video application developer: 3.5 hours battery life when streaming 12 fps video from an SD card with the display set at 50%. "

from unamed video application developer? whatever happen to independent review and numerical conformation from PIC on Palm's claim? Did Palm makes PIC sign a letter not to test actual battery endurance, and benchmarking 4.1 application speed under 5.0?

well, nice picture of that clear cover tho'

Don't feed the trolls...
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 5:42:39 PM #
"ska" wrote: from unamed video application developer? whatever happen to independent review and numerical conformation from PIC on Palm's claim? Did Palm makes PIC sign a letter not to test actual battery endurance, and benchmarking 4.1 application speed under 5.0?

Normally I wouldn't respond to this kind of baiting, but this is actually a good question (just phrased with an apparently cynical, provocative and probably PPC-biased slant )

Battery life testing is actually a very complex subject, and with the exception of Peter Strobel's articles at http://www.pstec.de , just about everything you read on the Net regarding PDA battery life is BS.

Asking "How long will my battery last?" is like asking "How many days will a tank of gas last in my car?". It depends on the car, how you drive it and how often.

For a PDA, an equivalent way of asking the quetion might be: how bright is the screen setting; how much time do the apps you use have the processor in standby mode vs. active processing; what is the current draw of the processor in these different modes; is IR beam receive on; is Bt on; how much audio / vibrate alarm / LED blink use; etc. etc. etc.

The best way to objectively test battery life is to hook up a precision current meter inline with the battery connection and measure the actual current draw over all of the various conditions.

Then to get any kind of meaningful real-world numbers, you have to develop "usage profiles" where a defined combination of parameters is outlined. The two that are presented in the review do that. However, they are results from outside sources and I don't have any way of confirming those results.

I'm tired of seeing all this poor battery life information being passed of as truth, and I've talked with Ryan about setting up some valid testing regimens to be able to present useful and comparable results for different devices under different usage conditions. It's a heck of a lot of work though, so I'm not going to promise anything just yet...

- Dan


RE: PIC scarred?
hotpaw4 @ 10/30/2002 9:10:10 PM #
Also, no one reports temperature, Li-Ion polymer battery life is very dependant on the temperature. I ran my tests with a calibrated thermometer sitting next to the unit.
RE: PIC scarred?
ska @ 10/30/2002 9:36:20 PM #
How to create user profile.

set up a poll maybe. (what do you use your Palm most often for)
than the percentage is pretty much representational what the PIC readers care about. (ie. your reader, to whom the review matter most)

so for eg. if the result of the poll is:

A. what do you use your Palm most often for.
50% PIM
20% app
10% game
5% BT checking email
15% other

B. how long do you use your palm at a stretch usually
80% 1hr
10% 3hr
10% continuously till it die dammit.

then just set up a test that mimic those data.
have a monkey prod around a PALM for 1 hrs straight with 50% pim, 20% apps, 10% games,... repeat the cycle till the battery dies

...or something like that.

battery testing
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 9:41:30 PM #
Good point Ron.

Have you tested other PDAs with the same regimen?

If so, care to share some results? :)

Thanks,

Dan

temperature sensitivity and li-ion battery life
hotpaw4 @ 10/31/2002 12:15:49 AM #
Can't find the exact data from a test I ran last year, but my recollection was that my then 2 year old Palm V (backlight off) had around a 7 hour battery life at cool room temperature (65-68F), nearly a 12 hour life under a desk lamp (82F), and around a 1.5 hour life when left outdoors at night at around 40F (testing done in that order). It wouldn't even stay on for 5 minutes when I tried to use a planitarium app with the backlight on outdoors below freezing once. This Palm V is 3 years old now, and a friend is still using it, so it still seems to have mostly survived all that abuse.
RE: PIC scarred?
metro7i @ 10/31/2002 2:29:37 AM #
Since PIC is THE premier Palm site, Maybe PIC should develop a standardized battery test that emulates normal usage. This will give us a refence point when comparing the many palm devices available.

RE: PIC scarred?
Fly-By-Night @ 10/31/2002 6:12:31 AM #
How do you standardise a test though? Clie NX70v users might consider a couple of photos or a movie 'standard' usage; but this can't be carried out on a 'standard' T|T. Same goes for thumboard; or BT on the T|T. Without devices being as standardised as PPC clones, there is really no standard test that can be carried out. Manufacturers tweak batteries and processors and power mamagement software to fir their device.

Basically, I think we're going to have to go by trial and error, and see what user comments are in forums. A device with a particularly poor or particularly good battery life will soon get the slating/praise it deserves. Other than that, so long as a battery survives a *reasonable* time, and the PDA has all the functions you require; then that should be the PDA for you -- a Honda Insight may have twice the fuel economy of my car; but I need a car with 4 seats!

FBN

RE: PIC scarred?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/31/2002 7:01:39 PM #
metro7i: Since PIC is THE premier Palm site, Maybe PIC should develop a standardized battery test that emulates normal usage. This will give us a refence point when comparing the many palm devices available.

I've talked about this with Ryan, and hope to get it set up sometime in the not-too-distant future.

I fully agree that this would be a very valuable information resource for the Palm User Community.

I'll keep y'all posted....

- Dan

battery life only 3,5 h ?!?

kozmos @ 10/30/2002 5:11:04 PM #
"claimed battery life is 7 days under the following usage scenario: default brightness (40%); 30 minutes / day PIM application look-up and entry; and no use of SD slot, audio or Bluetooth. "

7 * 0,5h = 3,5h

So... Tungsten T's battery life is only 3,5 hours ?!?!

My palm m515 lasts 10 hours with backlight off.

Dan: what's your experience? How long does the battery last?


RE: battery life only 3,5 h ?!?
ska @ 10/30/2002 6:20:02 PM #
Back envelop calculation about device efficiency.

IPAQ3900
1400Mah, 4.5hrs, ~311 Mah/hr (mmedia loop, see link)
Tungsten
900Mah, 3.5hrs, ~257 (official Palm Inc's definition of use)
900Mah, 3.3hrs, ~272 (infosync.no, game loop)

It seems to me the wild claim about OS5.0 on OMAP will be twice or three times as efficient are bunk. With much smaller screen to lit, and no sound test, Tungsten still perform only about 10% more efficient than iPAQ.

anybody has NX battery number?

referance:
http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/iPAQ/3900/3900-1.htm
http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2495,2.html
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4490

RE: battery life
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 8:03:05 PM #
kosmos: "claimed battery life is 7 days under the following usage scenario: default brightness (40%); 30 minutes / day PIM application look-up and entry; and no use of SD slot, audio or Bluetooth. "

7 * 0,5h = 3,5h

Don't forget to add in the 23.5 hours x 7 days x standby current when the device is "off" (a.k.a. "sleeping" still refreshing memory etc.)


ksomos: So... Tungsten T's battery life is only 3,5 hours ?!?! My palm m515 lasts 10 hours with backlight off.

Is that using RunTime? That doesn't work on the TT, but hopefully someone will write a similar app using the new Notification Manager for OS5.


ksomos: "Dan: what's your experience? How long does the battery last?

I haven't had it long enough to offer a bottom-line answer; and haven't done any lab testing (yet). I've also been putting in the cradle a lot (HotSyncing like crazy the last few days!) so it's been getting very regular top-up recharges most days.

For some anecdotal info: I read an ebook off SD for 4 hours straight the other night with the frontlight on a fairly low setting, and the battery gauge in the Launcher was still over half. (Of course, the battery gauge should not be considered an even remotely accurate tool, and the voltage discharge profile of LiIon Poly battery pack should be considered, and yadda yadda yadda...)

I'll be sure to report back with some more info once I've had some longer-term results, but for now, I can safely say that the TT can easily accommodate a full day of heavy use. Also note that the screen is *very* bright and I've been using it at around 25% on the brightness slider.

- Dan

RE: battery life only 3,5 h ?!?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 8:19:40 PM #
ska (again): Back envelop calculation about device efficiency.

*sigh* "A little information is a dangerous thing."

Why do you waste your time comparing apples and oranges? If you're really interested in comparing the efficiency of the different ARM processors running the PPC OS and PalmOS do a search for the *real* results that have been posted by engineers from Motorola (DragonBall MX1) and Intel (XScale) and report back here with some links.

Please also be sure to include information about Pocket PC 2002's power optimizations for the 400MHz XScale!

And while you're busy producing meaningless numbers, here's a bonus question for extra marks: compute the "power efficiency" per device weight as well. (FWIW: I replaced my former PPC reference device, an iPAQ 3870 with a Toshiba e570.)

- Dan

RE: battery life only 3,5 h ?!?
ska @ 10/30/2002 8:50:25 PM #
Why only E570? Have the whole series and win happy meal too. (okay okay. that was sarcasm )

but seriously it still won't push Tungsten in the top 5 battery performance on that chart. (if it were being tested in same condition)

chart and testing condition toward the middle of article.
http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/iPAQ/3900/3900-1.htm

RE: battery life only 3,5 h ?!?
ska @ 10/30/2002 9:03:26 PM #
PS. be carefull with the statistic on the battery test regiment. ;-)

my number might be nonsensical but I state it carefully what the number is about and what is the state of the accuracy.

RE: battery life only 3,5 h ?!?
Altema @ 10/31/2002 2:08:40 AM #
Ska, don't forget that the OMAP in the TT is faster in graphics intensive operations (which need the most speed anyway) than any of the PPC's on the chart.

RE: battery life only 3,5 h ?!?
ska @ 10/31/2002 12:34:53 PM #
don't we need battery test first before we can say this?
RE: battery life only 3,5 h ?!?
hotpaw4 @ 10/31/2002 12:48:06 PM #
There have been a couple tests already. 3.5 hours was reportedly running an action game (CPU mostly active). My test (see previous post) was running a clock display (CPU mostly idle) resulted in 4.5 hours before the 1st warning. Someday, I may run a test with the backlight off; my guess is 6 hours before the 1st battery warning if kept in a warm room.

Another Gimmick from Palm?

coppertop @ 10/30/2002 5:16:48 PM #
I'm sorry but the Tungsten just seems to be another gimmick by Palm. It may have a super screen but it just doesn't seem to stand up to the CLIE line. It's MP3 capable but doesn't come with an MP3 program?

The sliding case is nice but other than make the device smaller it serves no purpose. At least the Sharp case slides to conceal a keyboard. The device is small enough with the case extended.

The five position center button is o.k. but it doesn't rotate and looks like an attempt to mimic the Pocket PC devices.

Palm missed the boat when they abandoned the Palm III and Palm V footprint. Add a faster processor, expansion slot, memory and hi-res screens to these devices and you've got marketable competition to the CLIE. Instead they produced a "cute" little M series that sent everyone screaming to Sony or Handspring or Pocket PC.

Now they've introduced another trendy device with a cute little sliding case. All it needs now is interchangeable faceplates.

Want to spend $500 on a PDA? Buy a CLIE or Pocket PC. You get all the bang the Tungsten offers and you don't have to pay extra for the MP3 player.

RE: Another Gimmick from Palm?
SaabCaptain @ 10/30/2002 5:33:11 PM #
I'm sorry but the Tungsten just seems to be another gimmick by Palm. It may have a super screen but it just doesn't seem to stand up to the CLIE line. It's MP3 capable but doesn't come with an MP3 program?

- Palm SHOULD have included an MP3 program but it appears from this PIC review that they tried but had to release to market in time for the fall buying season without it because of development delays, but will offer it for free online in a matter of weeks. Certainly someone savy enough to play MP3's on a Palm will know how to download a free program for it.

The sliding case is nice but other than make the device smaller it serves no purpose. At least the Sharp case slides to conceal a keyboard. The device is small enough with the case extended.

- This is the silliest thing I ever heard. Making the device smaller IS A PURPOSE and a VERY IMPORTANT ONE TO MANY PEOPLE! The sliding case DOES conceal something, a graffiti area which the Sharp doesn't have... so take your choice, keyboard or grafitii but they both only cover one thing. Also your statement "this device is small enough with the case extended" may well be true for you but MILLIONS of Palm V and m5xx series users got them for the size and have long wished for even MORE pocketable models.

The five position center button is o.k. but it doesn't rotate and looks like an attempt to mimic the Pocket PC devices.

- Doesn't rotate? I don't follow. Further when I pay big bucks for something I want the best and if PocketPC had a good idea with navigation buttons like this then why should Palm avoid them?

Palm missed the boat when they abandoned the Palm III and Palm V footprint. Add a faster processor, expansion slot, memory and hi-res screens to these devices and you've got marketable competition to the CLIE. Instead they produced a "cute" little M series that sent everyone screaming to Sony or Handspring or Pocket PC.

- I was addicted to the Palm V footprint, but this is way better in terms of footprint in my opinion. Have you even held one?

Now they've introduced another trendy device with a cute little sliding case. All it needs now is interchangeable faceplates.

- Wow. Try looking at it in person see if you feel the same way.

Want to spend $500 on a PDA? Buy a CLIE or Pocket PC. You get all the bang the Tungsten offers and you don't have to pay extra for the MP3 player.

- MP3 player will be free. PocketPC OS stinks IMHO. Clie is beautiful but way to large for many people, and the keyboard isn't nearly as nice as on a blackberry or Handspring Treo. I have no use for the camera. The battery life on the Clie is much worse than the T.

Every unit has someone who likes it and clearly Clie's, PocketPCs, Sharps, etc. all have there pluses. That said it is a gross mistake to generalize that the rest of the Palm buying world shares your needs and desires and then flame into a new unit like you just did.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

RE: Another Gimmick from Palm?
I_M_Anonymous @ 10/30/2002 5:38:12 PM #
The MP3 player will be free according to the review. Please read before comment.

RE: Another Gimmick from Palm?
sophmeat @ 10/30/2002 6:02:14 PM #
I have a clie, but if i didnt, I would be really tempted to get one of these. I'm just really addicted to the camera and hires+, but other than that, i would have gotten one of these in a heartbeat!

---------------------------------
Oh wow! Guys check this out! The new Clie has more than 1000 dpi!! Guys? Hey come back here! *runs after them holding a spec sheet* I didnt even show you the Keyboard!!!!!
RE: Another Gimmick from Palm?
jaggrey @ 10/30/2002 6:10:55 PM #
"The battery life on the Clie is much worse than the T."

Last I checked the Clie was coming in at around 3.5 hours as well.

University of Miami
2001 National Champions

RE: Another Gimmick from Palm?
Take1 @ 10/30/2002 7:50:11 PM #
Man,I can remember 3.5 hours of use with the original iPAQ resulted in jeers and proclimations of how worthless the device is. Now similar battery life is met with not a hint of dissatisfaction from the same folk who jeered two years ago. How perceptions change!

RE: Another Gimmick from Palm?
alexp @ 10/30/2002 10:23:19 PM #
You need to remember that 3.5 hours on an iPaq a couple of years ago was with what you might call "heavy use." The 3.5h quoted in the review refers to an unofficial test while playing a video off a card.

Get some perspective before you start chastising people about their perception...

RE: Another Gimmick from Palm?
djpedro @ 10/31/2002 9:58:21 AM #
An interesting point about "gimmicks." The Palm TT is derided for having a sliding form factor that makes it smaller, yet the Sony NR series, which has a double flip folding screen is somehow seen as non-gimmicky.
Gimmicky is in the eye of the beholder.

Ok...Maybe Gimmicky is a tad strong
coppertop @ 10/31/2002 5:48:14 PM #
but besides having a nice screen and the little sliding part, the Tungsten doesn't seem to offer anything new to the PDA market.

Yes, it is small. But how small do you have to get? By using the measure of "the smaller the better", there's a PDA watch out there that would be the best thing since sliced bread. Sometimes when you get too small you loose functionality. Just as if you get too big, you loose practicality.

I like the NR70 that I use. It's the right size for me. I liked the Palm IIIxe I had before moving to Sony. I didn't like the m series or the treo's. Too small.

The screen is impressive but I'll take the Hi-res screen of the NR any day. Just need more Hi-res programs to be released. Has anyone seen the Hi-res version of Bejeweled? Very nice.

Ok. Gimmicky is probably in the eye of the beholder and I see the Tungsten as gimmicky. Some see the flip screen of the NR and NX CLies as gimmicky. But at least it serves a function.

I still hold true with my belief that if Palm had have built on the Palm III or Palm V footprint, they would have been better off.

If the Tungsten is what turns your tractor, then go for it. I'll keep my NR70 for now.


Questions for Dan...

SaabCaptain @ 10/30/2002 5:24:29 PM #
Dan can you address the following either here or in other articles on the site... Thanks!

1. What the heck is faster, the OMAP processor in the Tungsten T or the XScale in the Sony NX series? At first when I heard my T only had a 144 mHz processor instead of the Oslo's 175 mHz I was very disappointed but comments you have made and comments on Brighthand.com indicate this may very well still be faster than the XScale at 200 mHz in the Clie. Certainly my experience with my T boosts my hopes as I feel it runs great so far, but we need hard numbers and comparisons!

2. The OMAP processor is a dual core processor as you stated with a DSP running at 200 mHz. Do programs need to be written specifically for the OMAP to take advantage of this or does the DSP automatically take its share of the load from the standard OS5 programs and ARM-lets? While the DSP might be a strong advantage for the processor vs. the XScale I imagine it would only be so if you didn't need developers to write specifically for it, something that has yet to be answered.

3. Why did Palm lower the primary clock speed of the OMAP ARM processor to 144 mHz from the Oslo prototype's running at 175 mHz?

Thanks so much Dan, by far your review has been the most detailed of them all and very fair and even handed. Palm has a winner here, although it would have been better at a list of $399-449.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

RE: Questions for Dan...
ska @ 10/30/2002 5:40:39 PM #
Can PIC explain what is the criteria for 4.5/5

for battery on the final test, than giving a comment "OK for multimedia".

-what sort of multimedia has been tested on it? How do you create a multimedia "loop" for 3 hrs continuously? (there is no mp3 player, and kinoma is not stable enough to play for 3 hrs continuously)
-what does the number mean? no other handheld receive grading on battery criteria except "Zire" and zire receive 5/5
-How would you rate the rest of handheld you have reviewed to give context what the battery rating really means. (eg. Clie760, t655,NR, M515)

I really hope the rating is some serious evaluation, not just Mickey Mouse sticker. thanks.

RE: Questions for Dan...
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 8:49:36 PM #
SaabCaptain: Dan can you address the following either here or in other articles on the site... Thanks!

Those are all *excellent* questions, and we're searching for the answers myself. Once Ryan and/or I get some answers we'll be posting to PIC -- count on it :)

I do have an NX70V for review and hope to post it before too long. It'll likely be a two-parter, because I don't have the PEGA-WL100 WiFi card yet.

If you're interested in checking out the various OS5-compatible ARM processors, here are a few links:

Palm OS Ready Program: <http://www.palmsource.com/about/os_ready.html>

OMAP1510: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V29952A42

XScale PXA250: http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2A914A42

MX1 Home: http://makeashorterlink.com/?G47913A42

- Dan

RE: Questions for Dan...
bcombee @ 10/30/2002 11:07:41 PM #
Currently, the DSP on the OMAP 1510 is used for tasks like audio playback and recording. It can be programmed with custom DSP code to handle other tasks, but that code would likely have to be written by Palm or a party working closely with them. TI has a OMAP developer program where they show how to write things like MP3 players or video decoders using their DSPs, but right now, the interface to program this part of the chip is hidden in the internals of the OS and not exposed to general application developers.

I would think that its pretty likely that Palm would expose this functionality to a partner like Real who is working on a media player for the device. Using the DSP to do audio decoding would be a very smart move, especially for power-related reasons, as the DSP can be much more efficient than the general purpose ARM code for this task.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Questions for Dan...
ultach @ 10/30/2002 11:49:58 PM #
From this article at BrightHand.com:

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Analyst_Day

One of the most interesting demonstrations of the day came from Texas Instruments, makers of the OMAP processor used in the Tungsten T. Gilles Delfassy, Senior Vice President and General Manager of Texas Instrument's Wireless Terminals Business Unit, ran some fairly intense graphics tests against both TI's processor at 144 MHz and processors from "another big chip maker" running at 206 MHz and 400 MHz. Let me tell you, the OMAP processor cleaned Intel's clock, finishing the test in less than one-third the time. Mr. Delfassy claimed that not does TI's processor operate more efficiently (it uses as little as one-sixth the megahertz to produce the same numbers of MIPS) but it consumes significantly less power -- more than 90% less power than a 400 MHz Xscale processor in standby mode.


RE: Questions for Dan...
karlie @ 10/31/2002 12:43:20 AM #

One OS, various processors and various co-processors...

Mac Users do you rememeber the days when we had 68k, ppc and fat codes for all the applications...
Palm is heading this way as well... except that on the mac you did not care that much, we had enough space for fat code on the recent machines.

But on our HandHelds?

PS: sure I'll trust TI when they say their processor with their application consumes less power than some other's chip; anyday man, anyday.

RE: Questions for Dan...
Altema @ 10/31/2002 2:17:37 AM #
According to the test results, the 175Mhz OMAP was 3.2608696 times faster than the 400Mhz XScale using the same OS and same application. The TT did not come with the 175Mhz OMAP (much to the disappointment of some), but the 144Mhz OMAP is still 2.6785714 times faster than the 400Mhz XScale in the tested functions.

To match the performance of the 144Mhz OMAP for this particular test only, you would need an XScale running at 1.06Ghz.

Don't go crazy with these numbers, as they only represent specific functions, not overall performance. There are probably some functions which may be faster on the XScale which would close the performance slightly, but, graphics is one area that can surely use the horsepower.

RE: Questions for Dan...
beevee @ 10/31/2002 6:23:44 AM #
Geez, I know I'm begging here, but I really did want the processor on my Palm to outrace the stinky Intel Xscale by a factor of 2.6785715! :)

B

RE: Questions for Dan...
ska @ 10/31/2002 12:36:20 PM #
observer the 7 digit precission.
benchmarking
hotpaw4 @ 10/31/2002 12:59:01 PM #
I just got my first native ARM (armlet) small integer benchmark (Byte sieve)running on the Tungsten-T (144 MHz OMAP/ARM9). It indicates a performance roughly similar to that of a older 100 MHz PowerMac (PPC603e CPU). This is a very preliminary result, with no compiler optimizations. YMMV.
Re: benchmarking
hotpaw4 @ 10/31/2002 4:15:36 PM #
I posted more benchmark info in the discussion forum. The Tungsten-T 144 MHz OMAP is "only" 34 times faster the Clie T615C with a 33 MHz Dragonball 68k, running this small integer benchmark.

SD card exposed?

IanJD @ 10/30/2002 5:31:15 PM #
A small usability question for Dan or anyone else; once of the nicest things from my point of view of the way the SD slot was implemented on the m5xx series was that it was very hard to accidentally eject the SD card; it didn't protrude, unlike the Clie MS cards.

I see a slight protrusion on one of the photos, and wondered if this was just the blank, and if the real cards will do the same?

RE: SD card exposed?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 6:14:08 PM #
IanJD A small usability question for Dan or anyone else; once of the nicest things from my point of view of the way the SD slot was implemented on the m5xx series was that it was very hard to accidentally eject the SD card; it didn't protrude, unlike the Clie MS cards.

I see a slight protrusion on one of the photos, and wondered if this was just the blank, and if the real cards will do the same?

Good question :)

The area around the SD card is recessed from the top plane of the device, and the amount you have to push the card in to get it to eject (push-and-release) is a couple of millimeters below this plane. I believe that accidental ejects from bumping the top of the unit should be rare. It's certainly not as "tucked in" as the m515 is though.

- D

RE: SD card exposed?
IanJD @ 10/30/2002 7:39:02 PM #
Thanks, great review; it's seriously tempting me back from the NR70V...

NR70V
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 7:58:31 PM #
Heh, well PIC will have an NX70V review before too long, so you might want to put your credit card away until you can compare the two....

- D

RE: SD card exposed?
bcombee @ 10/30/2002 11:12:21 PM #
Or get both devices and expense them to your employer since you need both of them to test ARM code generation and USB debugging...

(I'm probably the only one here who could actually do that. )

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: SD card exposed?
IanJD @ 10/31/2002 5:34:26 AM #
Aaaagghh! I was looking at the NXs, but with that CF blister it'd burst out of my trouser pocket, and I don't want to be one of those holster guys. (looks around nervously) :)

RE: SD card exposed?
zigzago @ 10/31/2002 11:54:06 AM #
What's wrong with my holster? It matches my belt, see? And I can tie this string around my leg for fast draws...

Good review

carl @ 10/30/2002 6:15:07 PM #
This review is good, the Tungsten seem to be a good device but personaly I think that 16MB of RAM isn't enough(14MB are available), there is no MP3 player available in the ROM so It'll eat more RAM, 32MB should have been the price for this sort of high end devices...

RE: Good review
Lobotome @ 10/30/2002 6:22:31 PM #
I don't believe there will *ever* be an OS5 device with more than 16 Mbytes of RAM: it looks like this is a limit imposed by compatibility with OS <5. He11! Not even the OS5 emulator can be set to emulate more than that!

RAM
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 7:05:08 PM #
More RAM would be nice, but personally I don't find 16MB that limiting, probably because I use removable media a lot. (so many formats though: CF for HandEra and PPCs and camera; MS for Clies; SD for Palms; Springboard memory.... about the only format I don't have is SmartMedia.)

RE: Good review
Gekko @ 10/30/2002 11:34:15 PM #
How come they can sell a 20-GIGABYTE iPod for $499 yet the Palm TT only comes with a mere 16MB?

RE: Good review
djpedro @ 10/31/2002 10:00:58 AM #
Gekko:
Because the ipod has a 20 gigabyte hard drive, monochrome screen, and mp3 decoding software, and thats about it.
The Tungsten has blutooth, hi resolution color screen, the OMAP processor, and that 16 mb memory.
Apples and Oranges. Sure you could probably put in a 20 gigabyte hard drive into the Palm TT, but then it would be the SIZE of the ipod.

RE: Good review
beevee @ 10/31/2002 11:27:42 AM #
Duh, perhaps that's because the iPOD comes with a 20 Gig HARD DRIVE?

B

Anyone want a Treo 90?

atrizzah @ 10/30/2002 6:18:30 PM #
Wow, I want this unit badly. I love my Treo 90, but this tops it. My only hope is that by holding off, HandEra will release another killer device in the mean time.

Peace Out
Alan
RE: Anyone want a Treo 90?
I. M. Anonymous @ 10/30/2002 10:44:18 PM #
Had been dispointed. I wouldn't count on that.

RE: Anyone want a Treo 90?
bytor @ 10/31/2002 9:41:43 AM #
Id buy a Treo 90 in a heartbeat if the price were right. I have been looking for a color unit for my kid (7th grade) and I think that would be a good bet. I am waiting for a used unit to come in at around $100. I think with the release of the new Palms, this may be a reality soon.

Long Live Visor Prism

Screen Size

Rhauer @ 10/30/2002 6:34:23 PM #
Does anybody know the size of the screen, readable area. One of the reason I like to keep PDA and phone seperate so that my screen size doesn't get to small. Currently own 760 wonder how it compares. Thanks.

RE: Screen Size
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 7:46:33 PM #
Rhauer: Does anybody know the size of the screen, readable area. One of the reason I like to keep PDA and phone seperate so that my screen size doesn't get to small. Currently own 760 wonder how it compares. Thanks.

Measured with calipers (actual display area width - not just inner screen frame):
TT: 53.4mm
N760C: 53.4mm

So you can say that it's "standard" size.

- D

What About 3G integrated units?

derek985 @ 10/30/2002 6:38:59 PM #
IS it just me or does the imminent arrival of integrated 3G PDA devices not appeal to anyone here?

Why by the Tungsten, which I admint is an attractive PDA, when you will be able to get very portable palm integrated units from Kyocera and Samsung..if not others?

RE: What About 3G integrated units?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 6:54:59 PM #
Are you a one-piece or a two-piece kind of person? ;)

Different people have different preferences. The Treos, Kyocera 7135, and Samsung i330 and i500 are all very impressive convergent devices, and will meet the needs of some people perfectly.

Other people are going to prefer a seperate PDA and phone combination. The Bt-enabled TT and a Bt-equipped cell phone could be a very powerful combination, and I'm looking forward to testing this out.

[for those that have used either the Palm Bt SDIO or the Sony Bt MS: one thing that is *very* interesting on the TT: in addition to having a "Discoverable" setting in Bluetooth Preferences, it also has a new "Allow Wakeup" setting...!]

- Dan

RE: What About 3G integrated units?
gfunkmagic @ 10/31/2002 4:59:07 AM #
Really good review here. Let me add my two cents here on the combo pda-phone vs separate devices debate. I agree it depends on what you are comfortable with and how you use your devices. For those who use their pda for only pim functions, a combo device like the Kyocera 7135 would be an excellent choice. But 7135 also has a much smaller screen that would not be ideal for others who need as much screen territory as possible. The oppostie is true for those who want a small phone and do not want a oversized and cumbersome device. Thus IMHO, the size of the screen is the greatest trade-off here that complicates a combo device. The Treo line in my opinion has incorporated the best of both worlds here, but alas it has no SDIO. The Tungsten T plus t68i are a nice combo, but very pricey...

RE: What About 3G integrated units?
IanJD @ 10/31/2002 5:39:59 AM #
WRT the "wakeup" setting, presumably this opens the door for a BT phone like the t68i informing the TT when a call comes in and having an on-screen notification, which would be neat when the phone's muted, and/or stashed in a briefcase.

Then that (potential!) app to use the mike and speaker at a BT headset would be awful handy.

GSM phones and connectivity

Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 6:42:54 PM #
Rhauer AT&T is selling the Sony/Ericson T68i but after 2 hours on the phone and 1 in the store I couldn't get an answer re: using the phones as a modem for the TT. Also, does anybody have experiance with the GSM/GPRS service, is it more restictive.

Unfortunately it's quite tough to get the sales-droids to provide good info on bleeding-edge technologies ;)

The T68i is has infrared and bluetooth for connectivity to the TT, has a built-in modem that will work via both regular GSM and highspeed GPRS. You have to get data service enabled on your contract with your carrier. Check costs!

I've used an Nokia 8290 with various Palm devices a lot: this is using infrared connection; the phones built-in modem; regular GSM service with data enabled from my carrier -- it essentially dials up to my ISP and I get a slow (9600 baud) Net connection. Using this method, the data connection is handled like a voice call using up the time under my monthly allotment.

I'll be providing details on my testing with the T68 using Bluetooth & GPRS packet data.

- Dan

PS In terms of coverage area it really depends on where you are - check your local cellular providers' coverage maps.

RE: GSM phones and connectivity
Fly-By-Night @ 10/31/2002 6:36:04 AM #
Good forums on how to set up T68(i)'s for various network providers can be found at the forums at www.tsixtyeight.com. SonyEricsson also provide automatic configuration for a vast number of providers at wap.sonyericsson.com (click 'Sony Ericsson Info' link at the top, then the 'software & support' graphic that appears). The server was actually down when I checked, but I'm sure they have configurators for WAP, GPRS, HSCSD and MMS for all the major US providers.

FBN

GSM / GPRS

Marlboro @ 10/30/2002 7:01:03 PM #
I don't know what GSM/GPRS coverage is like for you over in the US but in the UK & Europe it is the only way to go.

I have just switched from accessing the internet using Blazer on my CLIE' from a GSM to a GPRS connection. Its significantly faster. My two cents - if you can get a GPRS mobile go for it!

aluminum hard case?

Jabronie505 @ 10/30/2002 7:05:55 PM #
Great review.
You mentioned Palm is releasing 3 different cases for the TT including an aluminum hard case? Is it available yet and where?

RE: aluminum hard case?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 7:41:52 PM #
Jabronie505: You mentioned Palm is releasing 3 different cases for the TT including an aluminum hard case? Is it available yet and where?

I'm not sure if any of the cases are available yet. I know I don't have any of them ;)

The "Palm Store" Tungsten Cases page is at: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L54721A42 and they show the "Scuba Sleeve" and "Slim Leather" cases. The Aluminum case is shown on an insert in the TT packaging but they're not showing it on-line at the moment.

- Dan

RE: aluminum hard case?
MJGunn @ 10/30/2002 11:25:12 PM #
I just checked all the packaging in my Tungsten, didn't see anything about the aluminum case. Actually, the accesories pamphlet that came with it didn't have a single thing for the tungsten in it, it was all m505 stuff

RE: aluminum hard case?
IanJD @ 10/31/2002 5:46:30 AM #
The hard case does show up in the UK Palm store...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?D1B425B42

...at 30.72 pounds sterling, though the illustration looks suspiciously rendered.

"Built with a cushioned lining, this case features slots to store your expansion cards, plus a spring-loaded cover and attachment clip to hold your device securely in place.
"

RE: aluminum hard case?
mike500 @ 11/4/2002 9:37:02 AM #
Does anybody know how the "scuba sleeve case" works? Can you tell from the picture, if it clips on or does it stay on and open and close. I can seem to figure it out.

RE: aluminum hard case?
scottgerber @ 1/6/2003 7:55:04 AM #
Go here for a review of the case and how it works.

http://www.foxpop.ndirect.co.uk/Palm/scuba_01.htm

Scott Gerber

To buy or not to buy...

Thunderball @ 10/30/2002 6:38:36 PM #
Hello!

First post, wee! I'm split between upgrading to a new Mp3 capable mobile phone or upgrade to a Mp3 capable OS5 device. I wanted to ask a few questions before I buy:

1. Why the reduced CPU speed? This worries, me... how soon will faster OS5 devices be released? I want to code for OS5 too, but I don't wish to be limited by having rushed into something (coding an emulator, for example, for a more advanced system).

2. Would it be possible to put a DVD down to 24fps, 320x120, 11khz mono sound on a 256mb SD card and play it back at 100% speed?

/Robert

Ps. Sony NX, though very cool, is out of the question for me; it's simply too big.

RE: To buy or not to buy...
Stingray @ 10/30/2002 10:23:15 PM #
I think they might have reduced the cpu clock to extend battery life. To those who are thinking: TT or NX70..
well, i think the only issues are the "joypad",size and bluetooth. If you think you will not use BT much, then the only factor would be the "joypad". If a lot of games or apps take advantage of this, the nx70 might suffer. But knowing that some third party developers will create some way to map the keyboard on the clie to "emulate" that function, this is also a non issue. So i think size will be the deciding factor. For me, im a student and always wear cargo pants so i dont mind the large size of the clie. I think that the virtual grafitti of the clie might be useful because third party developers will make "true" handwriting software, and it would be nice to see
what you are writing then. If OS6 implements a large screen, this device will be compatible with it, that is if sony bothers with an upgrade. Surfing the net and ebooks might be easier on the NX70 too. For my kind of usage, i think the clie might be better. But for my uncle who uses his pocketpc for basic functions and its ability to record sound, i think the m550 would be a better deal for him. The clie is more of an overloaded entertainment machine which can make life more convienient as well, and that appeals to students like me:) Memory stick has always been one of my pet peeves, but in singapore the prices are really low, and SD is very expensive. Dan, could you tell me what you think on the "joypad" issue? Do you think that the NX70 not having it would be a limitation or do you think its possible to remap the keyboard, so that you could use it like the wasd keys in a first person game?
Thank you.


"May the potato be with you!"
RE: To buy or not to buy...
bjbyrne @ 10/31/2002 11:20:07 AM #
One other big thing in favor of the TT right now: Memory sticks are limited to 128M. I love my Clie but it is stuffed full and I don't have room for any mp3's or video clips. Maybe Sony will finally release their 256M. :)
RE: To buy or not to buy...
Stingray @ 10/31/2002 11:47:58 AM #
Isnt there any way to split movies so that you could use two cards? Anyway I think the only video i would use would be tv episodes which are only about 66MB in DivX format. Any one else find any pros and cons between the devices that might help me make up my mind?


"May the potato be with you!"

ROM Hacking

hrl71 @ 10/30/2002 7:07:06 PM #
If the international versions of the Tungsten T come with 8 mb of ROM, and the US version with 4 mb of ROM, why not buy an international TT and flash it with US ROMs so you get more storage space directly on the device?

Why can't Palm just make one version and let us US people enjoy the extra ROM space? :)

Just a thought. I won't be getting a TT, but I'm anxiously awaiting the TW unless Palm makes a snap on keyboard like Sony has for their Clie's and some wireless carrier offers Bt enabled phones with flat rate data plans, then I'll reconsider. :)

Tungsten Bluetooth and wireless bluetooth headset

chmd @ 10/30/2002 7:36:51 PM #
Does anyone know if Tungsten will work with the bluetooth headset from Sony Ericsson (HBH-15)?

http://www.sonyericsson.com/T68i/

Click on the link and click accessories to check out the headset.


RE: Tungsten Bluetooth and wireless bluetooth headset
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 7:56:35 PM #
chmd,

I asked about that and there's currently no headset profile in the TT's Bt driver files :(

However, it's entirely possible that one will be written.

- D

RE: Tungsten Bluetooth and wireless bluetooth headset
Fry @ 10/31/2002 9:21:12 AM #
Take a look at Palm´s compatibility page:
http://www.palm.com/support/tungstent/compatibility.html

There you´ll find the HBH-15 & HBH-20 listed as compatible :)

RE: Tungsten Bluetooth and wireless bluetooth headset
Zuber @ 10/31/2002 12:16:08 PM #
I would not get too excited about this. From what I can make out, headsets usually only pair with a single device at a time.
So I think you would probably pair with your phone and that's it.
Re "pairing" usually takes a minute or so of changing to pairing mode, reentering access code etc.
So you can't just jump from headset to phone to headset to Palm and back at will.

At least that is how the 2 Bluetooth headsets I've used work (according to the manual) anyway. Note, I am waiting for the Tungsten to be delivered yet, so I havn't actually tried it.

Zuber

Bluetooth

luiss @ 10/30/2002 7:43:52 PM #
Hello I am considering buying a TT and need to know if anyone has used bluetooth to connect with a T68i from ATT. I have read that the only GSM/GPRS support is for T-Mobile and Cingular. Any pointers would be appreciated.
RE: Bluetooth
forloop @ 10/30/2002 11:27:32 PM #
Yes and it works very well. Use the "Phone Link" app that comes on the CD to setup the phone connection. Then set up a new profile in Prefs -> Network with the following settings:

Service: BT to T68
User Name:
Password:
Connection: BT to Ericsson T68 (From Phone Link)
Phone: *99***2#

That's it.

RE: Bluetooth
luiss @ 10/30/2002 11:44:58 PM #
Thanks!!

RE: Bluetooth
luiss @ 10/31/2002 11:11:11 AM #
Hello Again, is the BT from the TT using the GPRS channel or GSM to connect?Thanks

RE: Bluetooth
Zuber @ 10/31/2002 1:06:18 PM #
BT does not use GPRS or GSM etc. Those are features of your phone & service provider. BT whould work with any cellphone network technology provided the drivers on the phone and PDA support it. So if you were to get a true 3G phone, your PDA should be able to utilise that as well.

Zuber

RE: Bluetooth
luiss @ 10/31/2002 5:17:52 PM #
Thank you for the response, sorry for not explaining better. What I meant is that once the TT connects to the TT via bluetooth will it be using the GSM channel as a dialup modem or will it use the GPRS channel to get data. I understand that todays TT out of the box only supports the Bluetooth to GPRS connection via T-Mobile and Cingular. So instead of using minutes you are using packets.

RE: TT and BT

Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 8:36:47 PM #
ScottR: Though I don't get why they only put BT in the super-fancy color phones. I'd like to see a cheap, bare-bones B&W flip-phone with BT seeing as I'd want to pair it up with a nice handheld ala the Tungsten T.

Man! I *totally* second this motion!! And make sure it's got a decent capacity battery :)

- Dan

RE: TT and BT
sr @ 10/31/2002 3:11:34 AM #
Well, you should check out the Ericsson T39, it's half the price of T68 with all the features (sans colour screen), and with an active flip.

SR

RE: TT and BT
bendes @ 10/31/2002 5:51:58 AM #
Right, and check out the Ericsson R520m , it's half the price of T39 with all the features. Fantastic phone: BT, spekerphone, voice control, voice memo, GPRS, Tri-band GSM 900/1800/1900, IR port, unlock. And this phone is only 135$

http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=ERIC-R520M

RE: TT and BT
Scott R @ 11/1/2002 12:31:51 PM #
Thanks for the comments. I forgot to mention that I live in the USA. I looked through the link you provided and then did some searching on eBay. It looks like I could use either of those phones in the USA. Is that right? For the Americans out there, who offers the most economical GSM/GPRS coverage? It seems like they're all expensive to me. T-Mobile has a nice deal going for 200 minutes and unlimited data at $40/month, but that's specific to the Danger Hiptop/Sidekick. Sprint's unlimited 2.5G data plans are very attractive but they're not GSM/GPRS (they're CDMA) and they don't offer a Bluetooth phone. Oh well. Maybe in the next 6 months things will improve. As much as I'm tempted by the high-res screens and faster CPUs, I'm actually thinking hard about buying a Treo 300 and taking advantage of Sprint's cheap unlimited data plans.

Scott

RE: TT and BT
legalalien @ 11/1/2002 7:35:54 PM #
>>For the Americans out there, who offers the most economical GSM/GPRS coverage?<<

Both providers in Chicago (T-Mobile and AT&T) are pretty expensive when it comes to data. I have not seen anyone offering an unlimited plan like Sprint, and even then you wouldn't be able to use it with T-T (since Sprint only allows phones to be used with that plan).

Of the two GSM carriers in Chicago, T-Mobile seems to have better rates, better coverage, and better roaming, although this may be due to the fact that AT&T is very new to GSM. I have AT&T, and the service is decent.

It has the Screen Dust problem!

Geste @ 10/30/2002 9:18:03 PM #
Read this on:
http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?threadid=43139

I hope Palm did their QC right, I am not going to be tolerating any dust...

True?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 10:32:17 PM #
This review unit doesn't.

RE: It has the Screen Dust problem!
Ba-gug @ 10/30/2002 11:31:59 PM #
Mine was "clean as a whistle"

Please buy Palm stuff, I want my stock to go back up so I can sell it!
RE: It has the Screen Dust problem!
Altema @ 10/31/2002 9:33:23 AM #
Two people do not make a trend. I have a pair of dust specks in my M515 which were there when I bought it, and they are still in the same place. I keep my palm in my pocket, sometimes without even the flip cover, and no additional dust has been able to get inside. But... time will tell if the dust is only from the manufacturing process, or if the design allows new dust into the screen like the earlier iPaq.

Where made?

Ba-gug @ 10/30/2002 9:21:37 PM #
Just curious, my Tungsten T arrived today and the first thing I did was to see where it was made, mine said China, is that where all of them are made, or are there other countries as well?

Please buy Palm stuff, I want my stock to go back up so I can sell it!
RE: Where made?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/30/2002 9:47:04 PM #
My review unit says "Assembled in China" too

RE: Where made?
Admin @ 10/31/2002 2:45:47 AM #
Yes, Palm has standardized & moved all of it's current device manufacturing to China.

Cases?

adamrichman @ 10/30/2002 9:40:36 PM #
How would a case work with this unique design and collasable area? The stylus is already modified... what would the case do?

-adam

Info on built-in apps

morituri @ 10/30/2002 9:50:48 PM #
Great review. The m550 sounds promising. However, details of the "classic" built-in applications are sparse. Can we have multiple categories in Datebook? Can we have more than 16 categories? Is the Memo Pad STILL stuck at 4k?

Thanks


RE: Info on built-in apps
SaabCaptain @ 10/31/2002 7:57:56 PM #
Palm has stated modern and expanded PIM applications are a key element of OS 6, but OS 5 is the same old same old.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

Aluminum hardcase

sandbuck @ 10/30/2002 10:34:33 PM #
Can someone post a link to the aluminum hardcase? It would be the 3rd of three cases referred to in the review.

Screen Backlight?

I.M Anonymous @ 10/30/2002 11:43:03 PM #
Can the screen be used without the backlight? Is it very dark? How is it in daylight?

RE: Screen Backlight?
hotpaw4 @ 10/30/2002 11:52:52 PM #
The Palm W-T (W is the chemical symbol for the element tungsten) display, with the backlight off, is much more readable than the one on the Clie T615C. Maybe 2x better, subjectively.

I almost never used my Clie T615C with the backlight off, except under direct sunlight. On the other hand, I almost never used my Palm V or Vx with the backlight on, except in near complete darkness (since backlit contrast was so poor).

It's hard to compare the W-T display with the Palm Vx display. The W-T display has a higher contrast and shows sharper fonts. Under typical office ceiling lighting or other direct lightling and at just the optimal angle, the W-T display seems more readable than the Vx display; but at most angles it seem darker. Under indirect lighting the Vx display is clearly more readable.

RE: Screen Backlight?
bcombee @ 10/31/2002 3:14:20 AM #
The Tungsten's screen is a reflective LCD, so part of the depth of the device can be explained by the need for sidelighting.

With the light off, the screen is fairly readable, and similar to the screen on the Nintendo GameBoy Advance. In my flourescently lit office, I could actually use the device quite well without the sidelight, easily able to look up addresses or play a little Bejeweled, and I expect that mode to work really well outdoors. The screen has a slight gold hue to it without the sidelighting. Lighting off, I'd say the contrast is as good as my QCP-6035, but with a bit more glare.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Screen Backlight?
bro @ 10/31/2002 5:50:43 PM #
Yes, it is a bright sunny day here in Vancouver BC Canada and sitting near a window I found it easier to read the screen with the backlight off. I have used a Vx for 4 years and in a side by side test the Vx is slightly easier to read; but the answer is yes on a bright day.

Internation version

simonwhitaker @ 10/31/2002 3:50:03 AM #
Hi Dan,

Interested in the difference in ROM size - this is confirmed? 8M in the international verion?

Does this include the UK version?

Cheers,
Simon

RE: Internation version
Palm_Otaku @ 10/31/2002 7:10:29 PM #
Hey Simon - that's what the spec sheets state. The North American version I've got has 4MB ROM.

- Dan

Docking Station, HotSync-Cable?

Buzman @ 10/31/2002 4:46:26 AM #
Hi there,

what about the docking station and/or the USB-cable? Is it possible to charge/sync the TT by attaching the cradle-cable directly into the device (Sony style)?

And has one to go through a three-day-trainig to insert and remove the TT from the cradle (m5xx style)? ;-)

Buzman

RE: Docking Station, HotSync-Cable?
bcombee @ 10/31/2002 6:34:55 AM #
The cradle and all the compatible cables are identical between the m500 series and the Tungsten. No one has produced a mini-USB-to-Universal-Connector dongle like the dongle that Sony ships with their recent CLIEs, although I think it would be really useful.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

Bluetooth beaming?

Tuckermaclain @ 10/31/2002 6:54:06 AM #
How ling until we have an app that allows us to beam by BT? I assume that out of the box it cannot be done.

RE: Bluetooth beaming?
Fly-By-Night @ 10/31/2002 7:17:37 AM #
Dan does suggest in his review that simple beaming between BT enable Palm devices is possible out of the box with the T|T.

FBN

RE: Bluetooth beaming?
madhatter @ 10/31/2002 12:45:25 PM #
Dan does suggest in his review that simple beaming between BT enable Palm devices is possible out of the box with the T|T.

Yes right out of the box the Tungsten will communicate with other bluetooth devices, such as Palm's with the Bluetooth card and cell phones using Bluetooth. It will search for Bluetooth devices and allow you to check which person/object you wish to connect with.

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

Time between models?

Thunderball @ 10/31/2002 6:59:03 AM #
I asked about the CPU in a comment above, and got the answer that it might have been reduced because of battery life.

Well, that sounds OK, but I'm still not convinced that if I buy a T, it will last me at least as long as my Vx did.

How long have Palm usually taken between releaes of new models? For example, between the III, IIIx or V and Vx?

Since the Zire is new, their next model shouldn't be a budget model, or?

/Robert

Can you use tiny font?

Alex White @ 10/31/2002 7:57:04 AM #
The "killer feature" for me on the Sony 760 is the ability to have teeny-tiny text in spreadsheet/iSilo/Wordsmith and other applications.

Does the TT support teeny-tiny text, or does it just use the high res screen to give nicer fonts?

Cheers

RE: Can you use tiny font?
Ba-gug @ 10/31/2002 11:03:44 AM #
I'm using FontBucket with SilverScreen 2.9 and it works just fine!

Please buy Palm stuff, I want my stock to go back up so I can sell it!
RE: Can you use tiny font?
bro @ 10/31/2002 5:57:01 PM #
Yes, there is a tiny font setting in the inclueded with the software Documents to Go and it shows 19 lines readable (just with 20/20 vision) text.
RE: Can you use tiny font?
Alex White @ 11/1/2002 5:39:32 AM #
Thanks for the replies. Does this suggest that there is no support for tiny fonts in datebook/addressbook/todo/memo?

Possible mp3 issues

dokall @ 10/31/2002 8:07:57 AM #
A few things I was thinking about with respect to the soon to be released mp3 player.

1 - Will it be possible to play mp3s in the background while working in other apps, as with the clie?

2 - WIll it be possible to disable the screen and listen to mp3s? Obviously this will be a big problem if you can't.

3 - Will there be way in which to manipulate the vlume, track etc. as per a "wand" type device. I realize that there is only a jack, but would it be possible to control vloume with the hard keys?

I have a buyer for my NR70 (I was a plam user before this one) and would like to get back to a plam, and typically use my palm for work, but when travelling the mp3 is a great feature, but not having answers to these questions will leave me without a pda until they are answered.

That said, I still like the BT, voice recorder system and most importantly moving from a memory stick back to a mmc or sdc.

Al

Take it easy - Al from Canada

RE: Possible mp3 issues
jgb9348 @ 10/31/2002 10:09:24 AM #
While you stated that Mp3 support wasn't everything this device was good for, you did bring up some great questions. I would really love to answer them all, but since I'm not developing any huge palm applications for the OS 5, I can't answer any of them for sure. I do suppose there is a way to just turn of the display and still play Mp3's, since the screen display must be handled through the OS. Whether or not the Palm APIs allow for this or not, I don't know. In previous threads and threads on other sites, I have read that some people suspect the multi-threaded tasking might be possible on a minor-release upgrade to OS 5.1, etc. Once again, who knows if this is true, its up to PalmSOURCE to eventually tell us! Finally, as with any application on the previous versions of the OS, the hardware buttons can be overtaken by software commands and I don't suspect anything would be different with Mp3 software on OS 5. The one thing that might be iffy, is the control of applications which aren't the main thread (IF OS 5.1,etc is multi-threaded) with the hardware buttons. But once again, these are all what I believe might be the case, but I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the subject. Happy Halloween!

-jeremy

Battery life again

John Pahl @ 10/31/2002 8:05:52 AM #
I'd be really disappointed if the battery life is as poor as it seems it could be. One important issue to consider is the stand-by battery life - is this the 7 days quoted by palm?

I recently looked at replacing my old palm v and considered the toshiba 740 as it had a quoted battery life of 6 hours, and at 30 minutes usage a day that would imply it could last 12 days. However it actually drains flat and looses its memory after 3 days even if you do absolutely nothing with it, which to me is unacceptable.

In then end about 6 weeks ago I got a palm 500 as this gives what I would consider reasonable battery life. I am very concerned that new PDAs have worse not better battery life. My palm v could go a month without charge.

I'd guess my typical usage is 1-2 minutes 10-20 times a day. If I'm near a power supply (ie not travelling or sailing) I can use power hungry apps such as email/web access via bluetooth to t68i gprs phone. I really don't need mp3 and video.

Has anyone charged up their tungstan and left it with minimum usage to see how long it will last on standby?

RE: Battery life again
hotpaw4 @ 10/31/2002 12:32:07 PM #
Standard interpretation is that the "7 days" estimate is based on 30 minutes a day of mixed use over the course of a week. This adds up to 3.5 hours of on time, and 164.5 hours of sleep time. A reasonable estimate, given that my unit has stayed on for 4.5 hours continuously with the backlight on the lowest setting.

My guess is that the OMAP is clocked at only 144 MHz and there is only 16 MB of RAM in the T because with any more MHZ or RAM they wouldn't be able to meet the 7 day battery life metric without increasing the weight and thickness of the unit.

RE: Battery life again
hotpaw4 @ 10/31/2002 11:53:54 PM #
>Has anyone charged up their tungstan and left it with minimum usage to see how long it will last on standby?

Are you kidding?! You want someone to put their brand new Tungsten T in a drawer for 2 weeks?!

Wait until the newer PalmOS 6 handhelds come out. Then Someone might try this (I did with my Palm V when it was a year old, it lasted over 2 weeks no problem.)

Keyboard 1.9T

Solo @ 10/31/2002 8:23:50 AM #
I understand your position, but...

I want to sell my M515, but I still need it for typing with PPK. So I have to carries 2 PDA now (plus a brick as the otorola 270c because it's the only one CDMA Bluetooth).... talk about convergence... lol

Solo

RE: Keyboard 1.9T
Psyborg @ 10/31/2002 9:39:39 AM #
I have been using the Logitech Keycase with my M515. I should be receiving my TT today. Accourding to Logitech the keyboars "should" work with the TT. They made it OS5 compliant in version 1.11

http://www.logitech.com

RE: Keyboard 1.9T
mattmackenzie @ 12/9/2002 12:55:22 PM #
The Logitech KeyCase DOES NOT work with the Tungsten T, even though Palm says it does on the compatibility page. When you load the driver, it claims that the OS version is not supported. The keyboard will only cause a hotsync to be attempted by the handheld.

I'm holding onto the keyboard in the hopes that Logitech will break its own mold and support the product.

I email their tech support, response was "It doesn't work with that handheld", and "I don't know if they will make it work with that handheld.".

I HAVE ONE!

billytkid @ 10/31/2002 8:49:16 AM #
If anyone wants one of these Tungsten beasties get down to Micro Anvika in Tottenham Court Road London, I Parted with £380 yesterday and I am AMAZED!! This is the best gadget ever!

However..... I need some MP3 software!



RE: I HAVE ONE!
vincepic @ 10/31/2002 9:22:09 AM #
I'm looking to upgrade my M500, which cost about £180 ($300) just over a year ago....and while the new Sony's and Tungsten look super whizz bang.....£380 is a hell of a lot to pay! I'm looking for something that has a colour screen and reasonable battery life (or is that a contradiction in terms!), at around the same price. So for me the Sony SJ30 is the most logical option. I hope Palm realise that for an 'average' user (like me?) their new models are either pitched too low (Zire) or too high (Tungsten T)...of course I could go for an M515, but even that's about £50 ($75) more expensive than the SJ30!! so it looks like its the Sony for me!
Now, what to do with all those M500 accessories.......

RE: I HAVE ONE!
Gekko @ 10/31/2002 9:46:16 AM #
get the TT - most of your m500 accessories should work because of the UC. Factor that in, and the additional $ you'd spend for Sony SJ30 accessories and you might be ahead with the TT. Good luck.

RE: I HAVE ONE!
vincepic @ 10/31/2002 11:17:25 AM #
I wish it were like that!!! I was hoping their OS 5 device WOULD be similar to the M5XX series so the accessories WOULD be useable (is that a word?)...now I've got a Thumbboard, Landware stylus and Proporta aluminum case...none of these fit the TT, and my Stowaway keyboard fits, but apprently the driver won't work! The only thing I COULD use is the SD card.
The Sony doesn't come with a cradle, sure, but that's still a long way short of the $300 price difference! I'd like to get the TT but basically at the moment Palm have priced themselves out of my market.


RE: I HAVE ONE!
oggie @ 10/31/2002 12:16:12 PM #
Slightly cheaper than buying from Tottenham Court Road...dabs.com are selling it at £299 pre-tax. That's about £355 with tax and shipping. Availability is given as '< 1 week'.


--
Simon

RE: I HAVE ONE!
Norm @ 10/31/2002 2:05:12 PM #
If you're quick, you can still get one for £299.99 incl vat today only. See my post on the first page of this review.

RE: I HAVE ONE!
amin @ 10/31/2002 8:57:02 PM #
vincepic, just wait a short while for the price to drop. these days, it's never more than 1-2 months before the price of a pda comes down significantly.

e740, m500, T615, m515

Just Got Mine - First Impressions

ethelnet @ 10/31/2002 9:33:44 AM #
I was originally skeptical about the TT, and I was thinking about the NX70V. but the CILE size and cost turned me off, and the reviews of the TT made me realize that this really was the right choice.

I am truly excited to use this device. It is small, handy, speedy and clever. The one-touch use makes so much sense. I keep thinking of new ways to do things without opening the graffiti area. One mistake Palm made is that you cant run the stylus from top to bottom of the screen only and pull up the keyboard. Which would be easier than opening the graffiti area. I can't wait for AvantGo to adapt the d-pad so I can read articles without a stylus at all (you still need to pick your topics using the stylus now).

The screen is great and the apps move really fast. I have no concerns about the new processor at all. Battery life was pretty good for me, running down only a little as I played around on my commute to and from work. All I'm hoping for now is that the new digital music player is open to other formats than MP3, like AAC. Given Real's track record, I am optimistic.

Palm has won me back from Sony with a smart, slick device.

RE: Just Got Mine - First Impressions
sandbuck @ 10/31/2002 9:52:33 AM #
Could you give us some thoughts as to how you are carrying it now, the usefulness of the clear shell, if you will buy another case, and the feel of the slider? The more opinions the better.

Thanks!

RE: Just Got Mine - First Impressions
ethelnet @ 10/31/2002 10:02:07 AM #
I'm using it with the plastic holder. Seems ok to me. While it has not scratched, and I can't judge the sturdiness of it, anything clear is likely to scratch at some point. Still, I like it because I can read the screen (beautiful screen), while using the d-pad and still not be in fear of damaging the screen.

Is one more thing that makes stuff easier to do quickly.



RE: Just Got Mine - First Impressions
ethelnet @ 10/31/2002 10:14:30 AM #
As for the slider. It's a little jerky, maybe because the hinges are still tight. But it feels solid... guess I would worry about junk getting stuck in it. But can't really think of a way around that problem.

RE: Just Got Mine - First Impressions
hkklife @ 10/31/2002 2:32:00 PM #
Given the recent track record with AvantGo updating their client....we'll be lucky to get VFS support in the next revision, and maybe 6 months or longer down the road, finally get D-pad support (btw, does Palm have an official name for this pad?)

The lack of frequent (ESPECIALLY not supporting vfs) or even semi-consistent updates to support new technologies to the AG client has been the one thing keeping me from subscribing to their service. I don't need to sync 8 megs of info with them every day, but I would not mind a bit supporting them. However, if they disregard the forward progress being made by Sony and now Palm's handhelds, then I'll continue to vote by not spending my dollars.



RE: Just Got Mine - First Impressions
meridius @ 10/31/2002 9:22:24 PM #
When I first heard of the clear plastic cover, I was skeptical. I thought I'd really miss the leather flip cover I had on my m500. After carrying the TT in my shirt pocket for the past couple of days, I have gotten very used to the cover. Realizing that the cover can snap on the back of the unit as easily as the front sold me on it.

I had thought I would really want a case, but pocketability is very important to me. The included cover is just fine, for now.

Though the TT is a bit thicker than the m500, the shorter length definately makes up for that. It seems less likely to slip from my pocket if I stoop over. Of course, I keep a hand to my pocket if I need to stoop very far.

It was very expensive, but I have no buyer's remorse whatsoever. The TT is wonderful. I held off on the m515 for the TT, and I am so happy I did.

RE: Just Got Mine - First Impressions
vbing @ 11/13/2002 2:48:12 PM #
I got hung up on the whole slider thing as well, until I remembered that I could just go up to the top of the screen and use the drop-down menu commands to get to the keyboard (Edit->Keyboard)

Fitaly Stamp

c_blue @ 10/31/2002 10:30:37 AM #
Does anybody know if the slider allows to install an overlay on top of the graffity area?

thanks

C_Blue



RE: Fitaly Stamp
bro @ 10/31/2002 6:01:25 PM #
Yes, I am using my Palm Vx screen protectors un-altered which fit better than on the Vx. The slider only slides and covers the area the area is fixed. (hard to envision)

Slider and Stamps

Hotoru @ 10/31/2002 10:38:57 AM #
Anyone know if there is enough clearance from the slider to allow a stamp on the graphiti area?

RE: Slider and Stamps
Ba-gug @ 10/31/2002 11:07:28 AM #
Not sure, I want to put SilkyBoard on my TT but according to SBoard they are working right now on a new overlay, they suggested I try a few different ones out (at their demo site)to see if they might work in the meantime.

Please buy Palm stuff, I want my stock to go back up so I can sell it!
RE: Slider and Stamps
Bakedon @ 10/31/2002 9:23:37 PM #
Yes, I have a WriteRight on it which are pretty think. No clearence problems.

plug as USB mass storage

FredLL @ 10/31/2002 10:36:57 AM #
A nice advantage Clie has over Palm is the ability to access directly the Memory Stick through the host file manager (explorer for windows) thanks to a little app called "clie Import".
That's really helpfull when you want to copy non palm files (ie not pdb or prc) on a removable media : I think of mp3s, mpeg movies or any file you want to take with you ...
Today to do this with a palm and an SD card you have to have some sort of external card reader or am I mistaken ?

Fred

RE: plug as USB mass storage
Moi @ 10/31/2002 12:37:30 PM #
There are a couple of programs for the Palm that let you do this. One is Syncwizard, and a more recent discovery (at least for me) is Card Export, which is faster. Both allow you to access the SD card through your Palm like you would using a card reader.

RE: plug as USB mass storage
FredLL @ 11/4/2002 4:45:31 AM #
Thanks a lot
I didn't know about card export and it does exactly the same as on the Clie

Fred

Webbrowser NetFront vs. Tungsten T Bundled Browser

skccs @ 10/31/2002 11:24:33 AM #
I really would like to know if netfront 3.0 runs on the tungsten too. I just talked to a spokesperson of access germany. He admited to be not well informed, and said all the business about the palm-os version went over access usa. He then said, that nefront 3.0 is bundled with the clie. He mentioned an company iniformation from june 2002 that palm inc. cooperates for the next browser with access of america. He then finally said, that his company will probably not put netfront 3.0 for download or purchase on their website. So, if the browser which has been bundled with the tungsten, is low-res, netfront will be the only hi-res browser by now and exclusively for sony users!!

Christian Stocker
RE: Webbrowser NetFront vs. Tungsten T Bundled Browser
Zuber @ 10/31/2002 1:19:55 PM #
Could someone with both the NX and the Tungsten try installing Netfront on the Tungsten. If we are really lucky, it will work as on the Clie with the grafiti are up.

Zuber



RE: Webbrowser NetFront vs. Tungsten T Bundled Browser
legalalien @ 10/31/2002 2:43:57 PM #
The Web Browser Pro included with Tungsten T supports high-res.

RE: Webbrowser NetFront vs. Tungsten T Bundled Browser
Zuber @ 10/31/2002 7:47:54 PM #
Yes, but the Netfront Browser has some very interesting options.

Wrap text to fit.
Zoom out to show 640 wide.

It would be great, if you could install Netfront as an option as well.


RE: Webbrowser NetFront vs. Tungsten T Bundled Browser
legalalien @ 11/1/2002 12:00:24 PM #
I don't have an NX70, but I did try the Access browser on the simulator. It needs a LOT of dynamic heap. With the simulator set to 1024k of dynamic heap, the browser was running out of memory left and right. I don't know how much dynamic heap the Sony devices have (could be a lot, since they reserve 5MB for the system), but T-T seems to have less than 1MB (768k I believe), so Access may not run too well on it. However, the browser included with NX70 may be an improved version of what's available on the simulator.

Also, the simulator version doesn't offer the zoom out or format to fit features. Are you using the real NX70V?


I am cautiously anxious....

m515 Guy @ 10/31/2002 11:32:56 AM #
I love Palm, and now own my 5th Palm PDA. BUT... after jumping on the m505 bandwagon early and having a true nightmare experience with it, I am wary of running out and purchasing ANY Palm first offering. Hopefully I'm just being paranoid. Maybe 12 months down the road I'll make the jump.

Bought it on impulse and absolutely love it

tsinvest @ 10/31/2002 12:31:27 PM #
I own an IIIxe and a M505 and played with all the other brands out there and have to say the Tungsten T is great. To mention a few pros - 1. One of the best screens out there 2. A voice recorder that can be used while unit is closed - and you can later set an alarm to go for the voice message - so handy while you are driving 3. Finally a reset button the stylus can push (I could never understand the M500 series hard case with a stylus that had no reset pin - duh!) 4. Fast, very fast - can move back and forth and around without delay. 5. Programs run and load very fast also from the secure digital card. 6. Great stylus and so easy to get to it. 7. Very fast hot syncs. And, 8. last but not least OH SOOOO SMALL - you almost don't know its in your shirt pocket.

As you can tell I love it and even though I bought it on impulse I follow these gadgets pretty well and felt strongly this was a winner before I bought it - by the way I got it a Staples for $469.98 and know I probably could have done better, but when you buy on impulse $20 - $40 savings at a later date takes the excitement from the moment.

A very happy and pleased Tungsten T owner

Regards, Tom S.

RE: Bought it on impulse and absolutely love it
TinMan @ 10/31/2002 2:13:49 PM #
I bought it from Staples too. I was able to withstand the initial impulse--in part due to the in-store lighting (it was not very flattering to the TT, but fortunately I am indeed happy with the display) as well as price. That was Tuesday.

Anyway, after reading (in Brighthand's TT review's thread) about a $50-off coupon from Staples I found it was accepted as an in-store coupon. Maybe you can get it now? The number is 79443. For me, $419 seemed more-reasonable, at least for a device they've had for under a week. YMMV.

I've been away from Palm for 2+ years, so it's re-orientations time. ^_^

-Mike

I sync, therefore I am.

RE: Bought it on impulse and absolutely love it
tsinvest @ 10/31/2002 10:05:10 PM #
Thanks for the information Mike - I printed a couple of pages from a few sites that mentioned the Staples coupon and will call the store tomorrow and see if they will refund $50 based on the online coupon - they should do it since they usually always match low prices even on the internet. If I get it back I can put it towards the purchase of the new UltraSlim XT Keyboard.

Thanks again

Regards, Tom S.

RE: Bought it on impulse and absolutely love it
navomaal @ 11/1/2002 10:40:12 PM #
The 79443 coupon # corresponds to HP handheld....would someone please post the direct link here...???...I would like to get 50 bucks back as well...thanks guys...

Multitasking

tmuralli @ 10/31/2002 12:48:31 PM #
Hey! OS 5 suppose to have multitasking capabalities, but it's not mentioned here. I always wanted to have this in my palm!!!!

RE: Multitasking
bcombee @ 11/1/2002 2:24:48 AM #
Since the details on OS 5 were made public in February, PalmSource has never indicated that it would allow multiple, simultaneous programs. I don't know where you got that impression.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Multitasking
hotpaw4 @ 11/2/2002 4:54:46 AM #
To be pedantic, all older versions of PalmOS also had multitasking (even 1.0). It was built into the Kadak micro-kernal. Very old version of the SDK headers even exposed the API. It's just that previous to OS 5, there was a kernal limit of 4 tasks; and the OS reserved 3 of them. So all applications were limited to single tasking.

Predictions re future add-on camera options for T-T?

thomasrodd @ 10/31/2002 1:22:09 PM #
Thanks for the interesting and informative review of the Palm Tungsten T.
Here's a question from a simple PIM PDA user (Handera 330) to those who understand this stuff and like to speculate: what are the likely options for an add-on digital camera accessory for the T-T, like the memory stick cameras I have seen in catalogs for clies, or similar cameras for palm 500 series (I think I've seen these, too.)?
I've looked in a store at the new clie with a built-in camera, and I would like to be able to have and use this cool feature with a color PDA I want to get in the upcoming year -- but the clies are way too big for me, i prefer shirt pocket size; the HE 330 is big for my taste.
Can one be confident that there will be coming out for sale a little camera lens doodad that will stick into the T-T somewhere (where?) that will make it like the clies -- to have in your purse and pull out and take photos for some special occasion -- without having to tote this big contraption around in one's pocket all of the time? If so, what are these camera doodads likely to cost?
To me, this camera feature(small videos, even?) would be much more of a useful cool feature than playing music. Would battery issues or image storage issues make this impractical? Maybe SONY is likely to come out with a smaller camera-friendly/inclusive model, with a voice recorder (I must have this feature.)? Also I don't want a keyboard. The T-T looks pretty good, I will look at one in a store soon.
Long question -- thanks in advance for any thoughts knowledgable speculators might have.

RE: Predictions re future add-on camera options for T-T?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/31/2002 7:23:10 PM #
I'll speculate: I think SDIO peripherals will be coming out in abundance over the next several months - there's been a number of announcements (check older articles on PIC) plus with many PPC devices forgoing CF for SD-only, there's that additional momentum for peripheral developers.

- Dan

RE: Predictions re future add-on camera options for T-T?
ganoe @ 10/31/2002 9:04:08 PM #
I would think the Kodak PalmPix "might" work, then again their software is pretty crappy. The idea of using a SDIO camera, with no other place to store the pictures, is unappealing to me. I had seen rumors that there might be some digital cameras in the future that have Bluetooth for picture transfer.
RE: Predictions re future add-on camera options for T-T?
Fly-By-Night @ 11/1/2002 5:25:06 AM #
Check previos PIC story (http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4274) for a quite cool looking SDIO camera; similar in spec and price to the MS camera. Apparently it works with OS5.
FBN

RE: Predictions re future add-on camera options for T-T?
Zane @ 11/1/2002 12:01:30 PM #
Hi,

I was at a Palm Meeting yesterday here in The Netherlands and the Palm Representative said that a SDIO Camera is expected to come out this year

Zane

No AvantGo on OS 5

MadBrowser @ 10/31/2002 3:24:19 PM #
One thing that no one has mentioned is that AvantGo doesn't work in OS5...

Anyone know when they will have a compatible version?

RE: No AvantGo on OS 5
IanJD @ 11/1/2002 4:16:41 AM #
I thought this reading the Palm compatability page, but a user a couple of pages back seems to be running AvantGo on the TT..?

RE: No AvantGo on OS 5
MadBrowser @ 11/1/2002 12:03:10 PM #
It sorta runs but crashes after a few pages. Everytime...

RE: No AvantGo on OS 5
farmer_diddley @ 11/1/2002 8:00:39 PM #
I installed AvantGo on my TT and it crashed the first time I launched it. I did a reset and have been able to get through all of the content with no further problems. We'll see what the next HotSync brings.

I was not able to run Plucker. Crashed everytime. Anybody have any luck getting Plucker to run on the TT?

RE: No AvantGo on OS 5
asiayeah @ 11/3/2002 9:00:15 AM #
I see. I've been wondering why AvantGo is not bundled with OS 5. At first I've only thought the software is not bundled only just because it does not support hi-resolution mode.

Now AvantGo has not been updated for a long time. It still does not even support using the SD card. It's really a good service and I hope the software will improve very soon. Is there any news?

Right now, Avantgo uses over 1.33M of my m505.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: No AvantGo on OS 5
GeauxVols @ 11/3/2002 7:47:43 PM #
I've been testing the TT with various apps for the last few days. What I have found regarding AvantGo is that it crashes under three circumstances:

1. When an ad is displayed at the beginning (i.e., the ubiquitous Sprint PCS ad). This happens because OS 5 does not support the form object in the ad.

2. When the user scrolls past a certain point in the page.

3. Occasionally, there is a sync problem also.

From what I can tell, there is a buffer overflow problem, although I haven't pinned it down.

I don't think it would be unreasonable for AvantGo to fix these issues (in fact, I expect them to do so).

As far as other software, JackFlash doesn't work (redesign is in the works, according to Brayder), TextPlus doesn't work globally for apps such as QuickWord (it works in the TextPlus interface though), PiDirect 2.2 (it fails to recognize databases stored on the SD/MMC) and TealMover (I get a persistent crash when I scroll past a specific point, or when I try to move various files). Speaking of QuickWord, I get several annoying errors, like when I scroll down with the 4-way directional, it creates a new document instead of scrolling, and it fails to remember that I set it as the default memo handler.)

That being said, once the software conforms, this device is better than anything Palm has produced yet.

Security Support?

BrianG @ 10/31/2002 3:31:48 PM #
Is support for 128-bit encryption (RC4 + SSL for internet applications) just for internet applications or did Palm actually come through on their promise to release a fully-encrypted system? In other words, is all data stored on a Palm encrypted? And if so, what is the encyrption type?
RE: Security Support?
hotpaw4 @ 11/1/2002 8:38:02 PM #
The data is backwards compatible, e.g. unencrypted. There is a new encryption API built-in to PalmOS 5 for future applications to use.

Ok...Maybe Gimmicky is a tad strong

coppertop @ 10/31/2002 3:45:11 PM #
but besides having a nice screen and the little sliding part, the Tungsten doesn't seem to offer anything new to the PDA market.

Yes, it is small. But how small do you have to get? By using the measure of "the smaller the better", there's a PDA watch out there that would be the best thing since sliced bread. Sometimes when you get too small you loose functionality. Just as if you get too big, you loose practicality.

I like the NR70 that I use. It's the right size for me. I liked the Palm IIIxe I had before moving to Sony. I didn't like the m series or the treo's. Too small.

The screen is impressive but I'll take the Hi-res screen of the NR any day. Just need more Hi-res programs to be released. Has anyone seen the Hi-res version of Bejeweled? Very nice.

Ok. Gimmicky is probably in the eye of the beholder and I see the Tungsten as gimmicky. Some see the flip screen of the NR and NX CLies as gimmicky. But at least it serves a function.

I still hold true with my belief that if Palm had have built on the Palm III or Palm V footprint, they would have been better off.

If the Tungsten is what turns your tractor, then go for it. I'll keep my NR70 for now.

RE: Ok...Maybe Gimmicky is a tad strong
memo @ 10/31/2002 7:37:26 PM #
Coppertop, you sound just like a guy who is wishing he hadn't bought that Sony so that you could get the Tungsten.

RE: Ok...Maybe Gimmicky is a tad strong
sr @ 11/1/2002 2:19:22 AM #
Well, I really like the Sony's "gimmick", but the end unit was just too big for me. There is an invisible line that I draw on size, and at some point when the unit is too big to put in my pocket or use in public easily I have to pass. For me, the size is the paramount. Sure, you can have a smaller PDA, but not likely with a screen as big as Tungsten's. There is a price you have to pay for the QVGA screen, and that is the area it occupies. And the latest Clie has gone even further with an added CompactFlash slot that further enlarges the unit.

SR

RE: Ok...Maybe Gimmicky is a tad strong
blue9 @ 11/1/2002 1:35:53 PM #
Exactly, I will pass on the Clie NX mainly because it's too big. And I'm holding off on buying this nice looking TT because I've got a lot invested into sony products (have sony digital camera, lots of memory sticks). Hopefully, Sony will release an OS 5 device with a similar footprint to the SL/SJ (or even smaller!). And they better darn make sure to release larger memory stick capacities (512MB minimum).

Sony and Palm Desktop

benL @ 10/31/2002 4:45:53 PM #
I heard say that the Sony version of Palm Desktop won't co-exist with Palm's version on the same PC, is that true? Can someone pls verify it? I'm very tempted by the TT!! Thank you!
RE: Sony and Palm Desktop
Palm_Otaku @ 10/31/2002 7:20:03 PM #
The version of Palm Desktop (4.1) and the USB drivers that are included seem to be generally usable with PalmOS devices from other licensees: I've used Clie N760C, T665C and SJ30, plus visor Deluxe and Treo 180 with no problems. I haven't tried the oldest (S300) or newest (NX70V) Clies, but will let you guys know :)

- Dan

RE: Sony and Palm Desktop
bcombee @ 11/1/2002 2:16:00 AM #
I had Palm Desktop 4.1 from the Palm Zire CD -- I then installed the Palm Desktop for CLIE that came with the NX70V because while the Zire version had the right USB driver, it wasn't associated with the NX70V's USB ID. After installing that, I then installed the Palm Desktop 4.1 that came with the Tungsten T.

I now have Palm Desktop 4.1, the latest USB drivers, and a machine that can sync with the TT, the NX70V, the Zire, the Visor Prism, and all the serial devices I've got piled up, going back to the orignal Pilot 1000.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Sony and Palm Desktop
Fly-By-Night @ 11/1/2002 5:30:02 AM #
Zire comes with a CD then; I just assumed all software would come on a 5.25" disc!

FBN

BT phone

eboychik @ 10/31/2002 5:50:19 PM #
I guess we'll have to wait for the W in February for that.

m550

kingalien8 @ 10/31/2002 5:57:49 PM #
One thing I notice is on the back where the serial number sticker is, it says m550 continuing their 'm' line devices.

Kodak camera

palmit @ 10/31/2002 6:02:15 PM #
Has anyone tried to connect Kodak Palmpix camera for m500 to new TT. It would be great if another vendor decides to make a digital camera for UC on the Tungsten. Connecting via SD option limits usage.

Planning on waiting for a little while before purchasing TT. Still using my old IIIc.

RE: Kodak camera
cyruski @ 11/3/2002 8:11:13 PM #
i don't think it'd work. but should give a try.

RE: Kodak camera
PAIDINFULLMUSIC @ 11/5/2002 11:52:46 PM #
hey there!
i own a kodak palmpix too!! and i just recently bought a new tt assuming that it would work with the palmpix... but it doesn't. i am assuming just like my keyboard, it just needs a new driver.

BUT kodak discontinued the palmpix. so i don't know if they will create a new driver for the 5 os. but hopefully someone will or something.

if anyone hears anything about this or has suggestions on getting the palmpix working on a tt... please let me know.

thanks
-eric (ericdblackburn@yahoo.com)

RE: Kodak camera
Angus @ 12/9/2002 2:57:43 PM #
I'll be releasing an app shortly to use a m500 palmpix with the Tungsten T.

RE: Kodak camera
arturo_ccie @ 12/14/2002 12:13:02 PM #
Can you give us an update on your app release??

RE: Kodak camera
Angus @ 3/2/2003 9:04:36 PM #
The app is called TungPix and is available from Palmgear.

http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodID=46057

MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....

mopcodes @ 11/1/2002 12:42:59 AM #
...if you wanna listen to music get an IPOD! I got the 20 GB version and love it. I've got my entire CD collection on it sans Christmas music. I love it. One of the best devices I've bought since I got a Supersnap Shot for my C64 or an Emplant board for my Amiga 4000.

Buy a Palm for PIM and get an IPOD for Music.

Heck God gave you two hips use'em. One for the IPOD
and one for your favorite Palm device. ;-)

Take care everyone. Just my $.02 worth.

(Ps throw the phone and pager away. Why do you need to talk or do anything with those with all that entertainment available?)

IPOD ROCKS.

D. Martin
Former Amiga/Commodore Author/Writer/Reviewer

RE: MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....
sr @ 11/1/2002 2:24:40 AM #
I couldn't agree more - I got the 10Gb version and now I'm wishing that I got the 20Gb (how sick is that). And here we are arguing why Tungsten can't play MP3s out of the box - even a loaded 128 Mb SD stick would bore me in no time.
RE: MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....
sr @ 11/1/2002 2:24:40 AM #
I couldn't agree more - I got the 10Gb version and now I'm wishing that I got the 20Gb (how sick is that). And here we are arguing why Tungsten can't play MP3s out of the box - even a loaded 128 Mb SD stick would bore me in no time.
RE: MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....
ultach @ 11/1/2002 9:48:33 AM #

I agree totally. I just bought an iPod 10Gig and
love it. Why anyone would waste their time with
a tiny 128MB SD card when you something like the
iPod or Archos are available is beyond me.

RE: MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....
Bmann @ 11/1/2002 3:42:19 PM #
What about video people. I have a NR70v and a Nomad jukebox and a Sony P5 digital camera, but i've found that playing videos is very fun. I can get a couple of half-hour shows on a 128 MS and watch them when ever. I think that this is more of what these newer palms are trying to do and MP3 is just a another good option. can your ipod play videos??

RE: MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....
sr @ 11/1/2002 4:20:14 PM #
No, but my TT can. :)

It's not that TTs can't play videos, you just have to use the SD memory to store them since you couldn't fit much inside built-in RAM. From what I'm hearing, TT plays videos incredibly well thanks to the built-in DSP chip. Haven't tried it myself.

SR

RE: MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....
Bmann @ 11/1/2002 6:13:00 PM #
sr,

ya i know it plays videos and i bet it plays them better (except for hires+) than the NR70v. I just wanted to note that the palms have a place other than as a PIM.


RE: MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....
SwissFreek @ 11/11/2002 11:05:18 PM #
I'm not particularly concerned about not having MP3 player in the box. It will be available for download once it's done, but either way I also have an iPod (got it when it first came out, just the lowly 5GB :). The thought of carrying a few episodes of the Simpsons around is kinda interesting though. If only that site from a few years back hadn't been shut down...

RE: MP3 - If you wanna listen to music....
vbing @ 11/14/2002 4:28:22 PM #
I am an iPod (10 gB) owner and generally agree that using a PDA with smaller, removable media makes a poor choice as a music player.

However, I am looking forward to ripping MP3 streams off of public radio so that I can "timeshift" and carry the programming with me. I figure that since most of it is discussion, I can live with low-bit rate and mono audio to save space.

JackFlash / JackSprat

Norm @ 11/1/2002 2:26:51 AM #
I've sent an email to Brayder to find out about support for the Tungsten but haven't had a reply yet. Has anyone else found out the answer yet?

Assuming my UK model has 8mb Flash Rom, presumably including lots of languages, I'd love to make use of all that space!

RE: JackFlash / JackSprat
IanJD @ 11/1/2002 4:09:20 AM #
Brayder did get something working for the NR70/V within weeks of its release, so I'd be suprised if they're not working on it: it may be more complicated with the new processor/OS, though.

RE: JackFlash / JackSprat
phoenixfire1965 @ 11/1/2002 3:34:39 PM #
I emailed Brayder about JackFlash/Jacksprat support and this is the email reply I received:

We are currently testing our products with OS 5. We do not have a specific release date at this time. Please continue to check our web site at www.Brayder.com for updates.

Thank you,
Brayder Support


Keep our fingers crossed. I ordered my TT from MediaMarkt in Germany because of the 8mb ROM thing. If Brayder gets this working we should have over 4 MB of ROM for use. How cool would that be.

RE: JackFlash / JackSprat
Norm @ 11/2/2002 10:05:49 AM #
I'm sure I should know the answer but now I've got my Tungsten where do I find how much ROM it has?

RE: JackFlash / JackSprat
djeffery @ 11/2/2002 1:22:59 PM #
FileZ will tell you. Make sure "PalmCard" is the selected card and hit the "Memory Card Info" button. My US-market TT says:

Creation Date: 9/11/02
ROM Size: 8257536 bytes
RAM Size: 15503360 bytes

I'm sure there are many other utilities that will give you this info, too. I don't think you can get it with just the built-in apps, though. I like FileZ for file management, and it's free (although I'd register it if it stopped being free). You can find it on PalmGear.

David

RE: JackFlash / JackSprat
DenHoff @ 11/3/2002 12:09:05 AM #
My US T-T has an 8MB ROM too! I read somewhere (maybe in this forum), where someone guessed that it would be simpler if Palm made only one model of the Tungsten Looks like that is what they did.

RE: JackFlash / JackSprat
TinMan @ 11/3/2002 11:27:52 AM #
Ditto for 8 MB ROM on my U.S. TT too. Hopefully, this is the norm (which might increase the chances of a future OS 6 upgrade?).

-Mike

I sync, therefore I am.

Bad News

bytor @ 11/1/2002 8:32:31 AM #
Here's some bad news...I got my Tungsten on Tuesday...as of Friday morning its dead....wont turn on, wont charge....hmmmmmmmm..

Long Live Visor Prism
RE: Bad News
bytor @ 11/1/2002 8:35:42 AM #
hmmmm....did a reset and now everything works....hmmmm acting very strange....

Long Live Visor Prism
RE: Bad News
tsinvest @ 11/1/2002 12:06:59 PM #
Maybe you had a program lock up and didn't realize it - sometimes they will do that and give you a blank screen. Good luck

Regards, Tom S.
RE: Bad News
niolonra @ 11/2/2002 10:44:29 AM #
I got my Palm from Franklin Covey and (silly me) followed their instructions for installation. Hotsyncing installed my system hacks and everything I had on the M505, which of course crashed my Tungsten. After a couple of resets, I finally hotsynced my old palm, erased everything in the directory, hotsynced the Tungsten, then copied files over to the new Tungsten user directory (first addressbook, then datebook...) resetting hotsyncing defaults to let the desktop overwrite the palm this once, and was able to slowly install everything.

Once again, having an app on the M505 that would have warned me what would crash and what wouldn't would have been so simple and easy for me...

Palm has yet again released a product that's cool, but without really thinking through the process for users. I just pray to god I don't have to contact tech support for anything...
Richard

Keyboard driver for PPK

bytor @ 11/1/2002 8:36:41 AM #
I emailed Palm last night in regards to this...here was their reply:

"Thank you very much for your inquiry.

I understand that you wish to have information on the drivers for the Palm(TM) Portable Keyboard for the Palm(TM) Tungsten(TM) T handheld.

Please be aware that our Palm Technical Experts are working forward in this direction and an update should be available soon. However we at Palm Technical Support are unable to comment on the exact
release date of the update as we do not have the necessary resources to do so."


Long Live Visor Prism

RE: Keyboard driver for PPK
nyates @ 11/1/2002 12:44:03 PM #
There is a beta version of the PPK driver on Palm's Tungsten support site.

RE: Keyboard driver for PPK
farmer_diddley @ 11/1/2002 8:10:00 PM #
Yep. Just downloaded the keyboard driver for the TT. Seems to work just fine. Thanks for the info!!!

RE: Keyboard driver for PPK
Raphael Freeman @ 11/6/2002 8:16:18 PM #
Does that mean that it will work with the Palm keyboard that I bought for my M505?

RE: Keyboard driver for PPK
Fernando @ 11/11/2002 8:52:21 PM #
yup

Where to find the Tungsten

rstarkmi @ 11/1/2002 9:03:28 AM #
So many comments about waiting for stores to get Tungsten's! FranklinCovey stores have them in stock and have working Demos in every store. Their employees are the best informed anywhere.

What's All The Excitement About

dstrauss @ 11/1/2002 9:14:12 AM #
Excluding the built-in bluetooth (which appears to be an advance replacement for IR) and the D pad, what does the new Tungsten really bring to the table? Where's the virtual graffitti; why only 16mb (storage, not just program issues); diminishing battery life? As a long time Palm user (Palm Pro, Palm IIIc, Visor DX, Palm Vx, Palm 515, Sony 615, Treo 90), I'm getting very disappointed with the "Palm" camp. Look at the latest developments in OS, from 5.0 to the early discussions of OS6 - we're being overrun run with Pocket PC envy. If you want MP3, video,etc, why do we need both the PPC and Palm platforms?

It's gotten to where we have to "cheat" in advertising battery life - it's really no better or worse than PPC. And what about price? $499 for the Palm - at least as much for Sony; while Dell, Viewsonic, Audiovox and others are releasing $199-$399 PPC units with the same StrongArm processors. It's no wonder my former 600 shares of Palm, at $0.80 per share (now 30 due to the reverse split) are already down to $11.95 a share and falling.

If you're going to morph into a PPC wannabe, you better be a lot more compelling and/or a lot less expensive, to justify your existence. I think Palm has left the tracks on that one. I'll be sorry to see them go.

RE: What's All The Excitement About
Altema @ 11/1/2002 3:56:49 PM #
"If you want MP3, video,etc, why do we need both the PPC and Palm platforms?"

Because the PPC is still in the dark ages when it comes to video. Check out the reviews on some of the PPC websites. The new Toshiba struggles to display video at 10 FPS... not much better frame rate than my first Palm IIIe. The latest iPaq manages 14 FPS, an improvement, but compare that to a Palm M515 running 30 FPS. We won't spend too much time discussing the TT easily doing well over 200 FPS, as there is no PPC even in that timezone, let alone that neighborhood. "PPC does media better" has been a straw man for a while and we need to give it a rest.

Sony has been doing MP3 for a while and does an excellent job. Palm has had MP3 add ons for a little while, but did not incorporate it until now because they are more geared towards business.

You are right about the battery life being an issue, and I will take a hard look at it before upgrading. You do need to remember that PPC's have significant battery drain while in standby, while Palm branded handhelds do not. Because of this, constant drain tests will favor the PPC, but if a Palm and a PPC both die at the same time during the "media player loop at half volume/brightness" test, then the Palm will always live longer in the real world.

RAM is another area where I wish they had gone a little further. However, I have 77 applications currently loaded on my 16Mb Palm, and 5Mb still empty. Palm apps are currently smaller, but are leaning to the larger size as time and features are added.

As far as Palm trying to be a "PPC wanabe"... Wannabe what? They do not wannabe Windows based.

What would you say to a PPC which was more reliable, had a far easier UI, a tighter OS which consumed less space and resources, and a 1Ghz XScale? Would you be willing to pay more than $250? Most people would, and we have that equivalent in the new Palm.

RE: What's All The Excitement About
ska @ 11/2/2002 3:28:45 AM #
>>>Because the PPC is still in the dark ages when it comes to video. Check out the reviews on some of the PPC websites. The new Toshiba struggles to display video at 10 FPS... not much better frame rate than my first Palm IIIe. The latest iPaq manages 14 FPS, an improvement, but compare that to a Palm M515 running 30 FPS. We won't spend too much time discussing the TT easily doing well over 200 FPS,

--yeah but it's Kinoma Codec with no sound (200fps). All CLie user notice Kinoma isn't the best. How about .mpeg1 with full sound?

>>>Sony has been doing MP3 for a while and does an excellent job. Palm has had MP3 add ons for a little while, but did not incorporate it until now because they are more geared towards business.

--actually the real reason is not enough horse power and there is not mp3 player for Palm.

>>However, I have 77 applications currently loaded on my 16Mb Palm, and 5Mb still empty.

--what sort of applications? I suppose anybody can have 100 card games and dice. How about Single application of Bible? Loading up netfront will eat up 1MB of your space already.

RE: What's All The Excitement About
Lucan @ 11/2/2002 9:27:26 PM #
Altema is the classic example of someone who embellishes the facts so as to make his/her product look better. The comments about video are simply ridiculous. Why can't you humans just admit that there are some things a PPC can do better than a Palm, and some things a Palm does better than a PPC?

Lucan

RE: What's All The Excitement About
Altema @ 11/3/2002 10:51:31 PM #
>Altema is the classic example of someone who
>embellishes the facts so as to make his/her product
>look better.

They are just numbers: The video performance is given on PocketPCPassion, so I don't think they would purposely list degraded numbers. The Kinoma numbers are actual results of playing real videos on real handhelds. The audio is disabled during the Kinoma player "performance testing" as designed by the software developer. However, I challenge you to get 200 FPS using even a silent video on any PPC.

Better yet, let's take an identical video with full audio and 16 bit color at 15 FPS. Are you saying that both the Toshiba and iPaq will play these fine with no frame dropping or sync pauses? Or, are you saying that a Palm cannot play such a video? All the hard data supports the PPC numbers I quoted, and those numbers are from PPC sources. I will not post something that I believe is dishonest or intentionally inaccurate, so if you have contrary data from a reliable source, please let me know. I may appear to have a big mouth at times, but I'm easily corrected when given good data.

I've produced well over a hundred videos and video clips ranging from 10 seconds to well over an hour in avi, mpeg1, qt, Kinoma, and TealMovie format. I had to reserve a partition on my main server at home just for video output, so I don't discuss this as a total newbie. I'm not an expert, but this is just to let you know that I did not latch onto this concept a few days ago.

So if we have a Toshiba which struggles with 10 fps, and a much-maligned Palm M505 playing smoothly at at frame rates which the Toshiba cannot even attain, am I supposed to look at them and say the Toshiba plays video better than all Palm OS devices? I'm a realist. If there is a pillar in my basement supporting the house, my beliefs do not change the reality of the pillar's existence.

I also know that there are some things a PPC does better... I never made the claim that Palms do everything better. Matter of fact, I'm still waiting for the perfect wireless email solution for Palm handhelds. The topic was multimedia, in which most people are hypnotized by the mantra of "multimedia is always better on a Pocket PC", even in the face of clear evidence.

My apologies if I appear too direct, but the data given was accurate to the best of my knowledge, and I see the statistics ignored all too frequently,.. expecially by salesmen. Imagine browsing the PDA section of a local electronics store, and a person walks up to a sales rep and asks "what is the difference between these handhelds" and the salesperson begins reeling off a long list of things that a device CAN'T do. You have the same device right there in your pocket, and you do those exact things every day. Regardless of your device being a Palm or a Pocket PC, if the sales rep is wrong, you will probably take notice of the conversation and offer a few corrections if the opportunity presents itself. Yes, I also kindly offer corrections to people when they under-estimate the capabilities of PPC's, and even help new PPC users get up to speed.

Well, it's late and I have to go. Peace to you both, and no offence taken.

RE: What's All The Excitement About
ska @ 11/4/2002 12:34:25 PM #
>>The Kinoma numbers are actual results of playing real videos on real handhelds. The audio is disabled during the Kinoma player "performance testing" as designed by the software developer. However, I challenge you to get 200 FPS using even a silent video on any PPC.

--It might be from actual handheld, but it is NOT an actual viewable movie. (sound compression does take massive computing power too depending on the compression scheme)

>>Or, are you saying that a Palm cannot play such a video?

-- nope, sorry, there is no .mpeg player yet. All there is out there is Mickey mouse codec. (Kinoma)

So unless Tungsten can play standard movie codec at 200 fps, than your number is meaningless until Kinoma port a PPC version of their player. The 1.5 isn't even functioning properly in NX yet. (no sound)

and on top of that all, can somebody actually do all that from SD? (watching entire movie, with popcorn in hand and sound coming out)

otherwise, we are just talking a blip of 1200 frames slide show. Cute, but big deal. Slide shows don't make a movie does it?

PS. since when Kinoma become the standard choice for movie compression anyway? There is not a single quality comparison report on the net that say Kinoma is better than any other codec (.mpeg, divx, avi, etc)

Launcher ???

Solo @ 11/1/2002 10:01:00 AM #
I am looking for a launcher "NOT TOO BIG" for TT (only 14.4 megs free). I used to use Launch'em... I've tried also Laucher Plus and Launcher III to no avail. They all have problems with Double density.

Come on guys, do a little bit of coding, Palm delivered the POSE for OS5 a long time ago.

Solo

P.S.: Don't talk to me about Launcher X... I've been hearing about it since last February, maybe it's not vaporware, but it's sloooooowwwwwww coming out.

RE: Launcher ???
farmer_diddley @ 11/1/2002 8:12:15 PM #
I'm using Launcher III on my TT and it works just fine. I can't navigate through the apps with the D-Pad, but other than that it works just fine.
RE: Launcher ???
niolonra @ 11/2/2002 10:56:31 AM #
Try facer at http://www.pocketcraft.com/download.htm

They have been working on it for a while, and it seems fine on my Tungsten. Plus, you can "skin" you own themes. They are coming out with an update to that though, so they should get better...
Richard

RE: Launcher ???
Bakedon @ 11/2/2002 12:17:05 PM #
Im using Benc Lanucher III (v. 301) and it does respond to tab switching by using the up/down. Works well with the T, launching stuff in SD if needed.

RE: Launcher ???
niolonra @ 11/2/2002 8:55:31 PM #
On the Facer Launcher...
http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?sid=25861520020928002805&prodID=43849
is the newest version 1.5.2
Richard

RE: Launcher ???
DenHoff @ 11/2/2002 11:56:10 PM #
I've installed YiShow and it is a very nice start. It runs fine on OS5, has a great look to it and only needs a few improvements to make it a great launcher. The shell mainly ignores the D-Pad. The writer appears to own a CLIE since a menu choice refers to the MemoryStick. Scrolling in the detailed view is rather slow and annoying since there is no scroll bar or method to jump to the bottom of the file list.

This is one to watch. A few more revisions will make it a great product.

Try Launcher X
Tuckermaclain @ 11/7/2002 5:56:59 AM #
Yes, it's available in a very stable beta form. Best for the 550 that I've seen. Blazingly fast, etc. You can download it from the nxt clie club (yahoo group).

Is sd card access times faster?

dumfart @ 11/1/2002 10:47:06 AM #
Just wondering. I have a t615 and i have tons reading material but the access time is someting like 20 secs for palmreaderfree just to show the contents of the books directory, acrobat is somewhat faster except you have to wait when 'turning' the page. So is sd card access times faster?
RE: Is sd card access times faster?
BigSlick @ 11/2/2002 12:24:33 AM #
Using Palm Reader Pro, I can open the
'Go To Chapter...' command in less than
half a second or so. Maybe 1/4 of a second?
It's really fast. (FYI: Palm Reader Pro 2.0.24,
660K DRM book stored on a 64MB Sandisk SD)


RE: Is sd card access times faster?
anniemoss @ 12/22/2002 7:10:37 AM #
Palmreader? You should try using Tealdoc. I don't own a TT - I'm using the m515 - so i dont' know if this will help you. With Tealdoc, there is no noticable delay in opening large very documents on an SD card. Same goes with Tealmovie. Anyone can explain how they do that it would be interesting.

European Introduction

Sho-Bud @ 11/1/2002 10:54:29 AM #
Yesterday I went to a meeting of the Dutch Palm Users Group. It was the official introduction of the Tungsten T in Europe. It shure looks good, they showed a demo with Kinoma player, it has great video and audio. Palm expects to see the market for wireless PDA's grow in the next few years, even bigger than the PDA market today.
A representative of Palmsource explained their philosophy which made a lot of sence. As a reply to a question he said that OS5 does have some multitasking.
Sony was also present, and they explained their plans, which are more in line with their other braches: gaming, music, video. They want to bring it to the PDA. They are working on a pc plug-in which can record television programs and convert them and sync to the Clié. Next year. Also he mentioned a wireless PDA from Sony. Next year. Sony is now working on an organic display for the PDA, which will have much better quality. After 1.5 years.
Between the lines I sort of understood that next year there will be another wireless Palm, after the Tungsten W.

The box

rtgwbmsr @ 11/1/2002 6:09:18 PM #
Is the box the one they have on the Palm site? It's awesome...easily the coolest product box I've seen in a long time!
RE: The box
TheMoo @ 11/1/2002 10:30:05 PM #
I Too was taken by the presentation of the box. The Tungsten was surrounded in clear supportive material ..like a rare jewel. It deserves a box like that. Its really a wonderful PDA. I downloaded the NEW version of Bejeweled and was very impressed. This machine is fast. Its like opening the door of a new Lexus or Mercedes and sitting down. Silverscreen also is very pleasing.

Battery Comparison to Clie T665C

pdajunkie2000 @ 11/1/2002 8:01:21 PM #
Since this is now out for a few days, has anyone compare the battery life of Tungsten against Clie T665C?


RE: Battery Comparison to Clie T665C
hotpaw4 @ 11/1/2002 8:32:45 PM #
My Tungsten T seems to have around the same battery life as my Clie T615C with the backlight on the lowest setting (both between 4 and 5 hours continuous). However, I find I can also use the (m550) T with the backlight off in direct office lighting. So the m550 seems to be the winner here.
RE: Battery Comparison to Clie T665C
pdajunkie2000 @ 11/1/2002 10:30:30 PM #
If T's battery life is equal to or better than T615C, then it's safe to assume that Tungsten T would outlast much better than T665 since T665C as I understand it would consume more power than T615 due to its higher processor speed. Can anyone confirm this?

"Eye of the Beholder" is right!

alexp @ 11/1/2002 8:34:59 PM #
>>"Sometimes when you get too small you loose functionality. Just as if you get too big, you loose practicality."<<

I think the T|T is designed for the smallest size with still the most functionality. I don't own one, but I've handled one, and it appears to be very functional.

The new NX series, I think, is an example of your "too big" observation. I own an NR70, too, and I like its size, but the NX just seems like overkill.


>>"Some see the flip screen of the NR and NX CLies as gimmicky. But at least it serves a function.<<"

The slider serves a function, too. Palm says that about 80% of PDA usage is viewing, not data entry (I'd put it lower, but still over 50%). Based on that, the ability to make the device smaller yet still functional for viewing with the graffiti closed is a purpose. Granted, I, too, would rather see the graffiti space used for screen and virtual graffiti (did I mention I love my NR70?), but I see Palm's perspective.

I'm like you in that I will keep my NR70 until it doesn't work, but I strongly disagree with the notion that this is a gimmicky product. It's definitely well-considered, appears quite well-made, and should be a big seller in spite of it's price.


Bluetooth profiles

codeslave @ 11/2/2002 4:32:44 AM #
Does anyone know exactly which BT profiles are are supported.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
RE: Bluetooth profiles
ganoe @ 11/2/2002 9:59:05 AM #
If you go by the docs at:
http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/bluetooth/palm_bluetooth_mwp_r1.pdf

generic access, service discovery, serial port, dialup networking, LAN access point, generic object exchange, and object push

Of course that is an old document, and ones could have been added.

RE: Bluetooth profiles
novice @ 11/2/2002 12:23:50 PM #
I am thinking of getting a TT - i am really umpressed with the reviews. My only previous handheld is a Psion series 5. I know very little about bluetooth, so pardon if my question seems silly: is it possible to enable a laptop with bluetooth, by plugging in something into a usb port?

PS - know there has been a lot of discussion in the US about the $499 price tag for TT In the UK it is about £389, which means it is a lot more expensive over here.

RE: Bluetooth profiles
TinMan @ 11/3/2002 11:36:51 AM #
"I know very little about bluetooth, so pardon if my question seems silly: is it possible to enable a laptop with bluetooth, by plugging in something into a usb port?"

Yes, there are USB BT adapters that do just that (e.g., Belkin). I have a TDK USB BT adapter, and use it as an 802.11b-to-BT "access point" (802.11b feeds laptop, laptop feeds BT).

While I thought this would be painless with my TT, there is an apparent bug in its BT software: it doesn't seem to like the software-driven Network Access profile in many (most?) BT adapters. However, there is a work-around posted in the Palm forum here, and it's working well for me.

-Mike

I sync, therefore I am.

RE: Internation version

djeffery @ 11/2/2002 1:33:08 PM #
Seems the spec sheets are wrong. FileZ tells me that my US-spec TT has 8MB ROM. Makes me happy, because I loved JackFlash on my m505 and am looking forward to having it on my TT soon.

David

RE: Internation version
djeffery @ 11/2/2002 1:38:03 PM #
Hmm... that was strange. My reply above was in response to the "Internation version" thread way up on pages 5/6. When I started the reply, the Subject line was blank and so my post didn't go through. I copied in the previous subject, and then noticed that my post ended up disconnected from the original thread.

On this reply, though, I see that it filled the Subject line in for me.

Sorry for the confusion!

David

ROM Size = 8 mg?
kleung21 @ 11/4/2002 7:02:18 AM #
Hi there,

I saw this post and checked on my english only palm tungsten (canada) with filez and it also shows an 8 meg rom.

I went back to the palm site and in their tungsten vs. ipaq comparison, it now shows the rom as 8 megs on the tungsten.

Maybe they were all shipped like that.

Kevin

Official Palm response = tungsten has 8 meg rom
kleung21 @ 11/4/2002 11:39:17 PM #
Here is the reply I received from Palm regarding the rom size of the tungsten

"Dear Kevin,

Thank you very much for your inquiry.

I understand that you seek information regarding the specifications
about the storage capacity of the PAlm(TM) Tungsten(TM) T handheld.

Kevin, the Palm(TM) Tungsten(TM) T handheld is equipped with 8MB ROM."

so there you have it, the specs are wrong as stated in some of the press handouts.

Hope that helps (and yes, I am happy about that).

Kevin


WEB Browser Test

Zuber @ 11/2/2002 2:37:40 PM #
OK
This is my first test at posting something using the tungsten Browser.
Lookes promising, but I still would have liked the option of Netfront with high res. zoom option.
I like seeing the screen organised in the manner intended by the site sometimes.

Zuber

leather flip cover

mike500 @ 11/2/2002 3:39:38 PM #
Do you think there's any way they could design a flip cover for the TT. I love the cover on my m500. Its cool and practical. That's one thing that I'd really miss when upgrading!
RE: leather flip cover
Gekko @ 11/2/2002 4:12:57 PM #
I agree - but I'm not sure where it could be attached due to the lack of a silo/channel. The plastic cover is clumsy.

RE: leather flip cover
DenHoff @ 11/2/2002 11:46:35 PM #
As a left hander, I found the flip cover to be useless. Personally, I am glad it is gone.

RE: leather flip cover
Gekko @ 11/3/2002 9:19:37 AM #
I think I figured out how they could make/attach a leather flip cover. have a clamp on the back of the device that clamps on similiar to the way the plastic cover clamps on the back and then have a leaher flip cover attached to that clamp. Pciture putting on the plastic stock case on the back, removing the excess part of the case not needed, and having a leather extension. hard to explain but I hope you know where I'm going. It should not interfere with the slider at all. I don't like the stock plastic cover - to clumsy to fool with.

RE: leather flip cover
mike500 @ 11/3/2002 9:31:05 AM #
I know exactly what you mean, I was thinking the same thing. In fact, the back part doesn't even have to cover the whole back, just very thin and narrow strip going between the the two indents. The other option might be to use the stylus slot, since most REAL palm users have a pen/stylus anyway. I know that the slot has no exposure to the outside but someone will come up with something.

RE: leather flip cover
Gekko @ 11/3/2002 9:52:13 AM #
>"In fact, the back part doesn't even have to cover the whole back, just very thin and narrow strip going between the the two indents. "

EXACTLY!

Let them know!

info@palm.com



RE: leather flip cover
Gekko @ 11/3/2002 10:05:18 AM #
try support@palm.com

"info@" doesn't work

RE: leather flip cover
Zuber @ 11/3/2002 2:01:36 PM #
Surely some simple adhesive/velcro fastener flip cover would be the simple option. As long as it can be removed without leaving any marks, I'd be happy.

Zuber

buttons loose

StevenFW @ 11/3/2002 3:27:44 AM #
Bought my Tungsten T yesterday and was very happy with it until I noticed a scratch embedded in the screen...returned it today and the screen seems fine, however, I'm now noticing that the 4 function buttons and D pad seem a bit "loose" and don't have that perfect feel to which I have become accustomed...I don't remember if yesterday's Palm TT had this problem and I just did not notice it as I did not play with it for a long time...the buttons just feel loose and "clicky"/"tinny"...can a fellow owner please tell me about his/her experience-are the buttons loose or do they feel completely firm...need to know if I have to make yet another return! Please advise! Thanks everyone!

RE: buttons loose
Gekko @ 11/3/2002 8:50:31 AM #
Scratches will happen. Your buttons are normal. Try to lower your anxiety level and enjoy your TT. It's a tool, not a Picasso.

Bluetooth Setup

bytor @ 11/3/2002 9:15:19 AM #
Has anyone had luck setting up BT to access their desktop system?? Any hints??

TIA

Long Live Visor Prism

RE: Bluetooth Setup
Zuber @ 11/3/2002 9:38:59 AM #

Palm 550 (TT) vs. Sony NX70V Clie

mopcodes @ 11/3/2002 12:23:54 PM #
All:

I purchased both the Palm 550(TT) and the Sony NX70V Clie. I have to admit both were impressive and I liked features on one or the other. However ultimately the Palm 550(TT) won out.

I selected the Palm 550(TT) due to the improvements made in the familiar Palm. Additionally I selected it due to it's compact size and battery life. I like a whole lot more about it as well. It's great.

Frankly these three(3) items were the key to my decision as well as the others to many to list here.

I'm sure all of us have similar reasons or completely different reasons all together for choosing one or the other.

The Clie was nice and very gimmicky. I guess it's go the best cool factor, but I wondered if I'd really need all those gimmicks? I decided I did not. It's back in the box enroute to Sony.

Oh and by the way, the online purchasing experience that I had with Sony Style was by far the worst online purchasing experience I've ever had. You can bet that I will not purchase from Sony Style online again. I'm not knocking Sony products (I own many of those), but Sony Style online is something I'll avoid and I'm telling my friends to avoid as well.

One more thing. Prior to this I'd been using an IPAQ 3835 since April. Well it's gone. It died last week - battery problems for which the device is famous for I believe - and I swapped it out using my extended warranty for the Palm 550(TT). I certainly will not look at another PPC again. ppppphhhhhffffffftttttt! :-p

Peace Live Long and Palm away....


D. Martin
Former Amiga/Commodore Author/Writer/Reviewer

RE: Palm 550 (TT) vs. Sony NX70V Clie
hotpaw4 @ 11/4/2002 3:07:26 PM #
The m550 has more of the "Zen of Palm", which is much more in line with the expectations of Mac and former Amiga owners than is any PPC handheld. I think having the OMAP DSP to handle some media types is a nice feature; I hope they open up an API so that more apps can use it.

- Ron N.

Former HiToro/Amiga ASIC Architect and Director of Hardware Engineering

RE: Palm 550 (TT) vs. Sony NX70V Clie
beevee @ 11/7/2002 8:32:10 AM #
It seems that the Palm has attracted quite a few ex-Amiga owners, I just hope it doesn't go the way of Commodore in the face of the Microsoft behemoth.

B
ex-editor, Amiga Format, Amiga Computing... :)

RE: Palm 550 (TT) vs. Sony NX70V Clie
Der_Kommissar @ 11/7/2002 2:33:28 PM #
I am an ex-amiga user too, and have just switched back to Palm from Pocket PC because of the TT. I was only a kid back then (high school), but I loved it. I did work in a software ect. selling amiga software (and others). It's soo cool seeing names that I recognize from reading amiga rags from way back when!



RE: Palm 550 (TT) vs. Sony NX70V Clie
richard76 @ 11/17/2002 3:26:03 AM #
I've got a Sony CLie T615 and is wondering should I switch to the new Tungsten T. What are the major differences or considerations should I make. Anyone out there to advise ?

Screen Protector for Tungsten T

Operator99 @ 11/3/2002 2:43:24 PM #
Has anyone found a screen protector (like WrightRight, etc.) for the TT that doesn't give really noticeable moire patterns. Used the WrightRight on my 515 and no problems other than the usual slight dimming of brightness/sharpness, but put one on the TT and it becomes unusable. I guess the reflective screen makes the difference. Anyway, anyone use a different brand that works.

Thanks,

Operator99
The guy with the most coveted PDA in the office.

RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
hotpaw4 @ 11/3/2002 7:52:36 PM #
I made a screen protector for my m550 with some clear 5 mil fabric store vinyl, 5 minutes of my time and a few pennies in materials cost. It clings with no adhesive. The screen looks just fine through the vinyl, no Moire patterns (or bubbles or dust if you know the tricks...)
RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
Operator99 @ 11/4/2002 8:21:38 AM #
Thanks, I'll give it a try. In fact so far I have been using the original "screen protector" that came with it. It is getting a litte beat up by now, but suspect it is the same as what you are referring to - just didn't know where to get it. In a fabric store - interesting.

Operator99

RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
bytor @ 11/4/2002 9:27:50 AM #
What original screen protector??

Long Live Visor Prism
RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
Operator99 @ 11/4/2002 10:47:10 AM #
The little vinyl piece that covered the screen and has a small tab at the top.

operator99

RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
IanJD @ 11/4/2002 11:09:33 AM #
I had a Brando NR series screen protector spare, trimmed 4mm off the end and it fits fine.

RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
Fly-By-Night @ 11/4/2002 11:37:09 AM #
The original screen protector?? The one with the little tab in the corner?? I'm not sure if you are trying to be amusing; but I suspect the reason it is looking a little 'beat up' is because it is the screen protector used when shipping. You are supposed to take them off before you use your Palm!

FBN

RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
Operator99 @ 11/4/2002 1:50:42 PM #
Yeah, I know you are supposed to take it off, as I have with all my palm's since the 1000, but guess what, you can use it just fine with it on and I would much prefer to save the screen til I find a good substitute - especially one that doesn't use adhesive like the Wright/Right. The .5 mil vinyl may do it.

RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
Zuber @ 11/4/2002 3:11:08 PM #
I've left mine on the screen too. Just until I locate a suitable alternative. I ordered some stuff from brando, and also ordered a Palm Vx protector at the same time to try out for size. Someone else has posted that a Palm Vx protector fits perfectly, so I thought I'd give it a try.

I'll let you know when it turns up. However, they are quoting upto 21 days for delivery. Hope that is just worst case. Probably have a new one out for the T by the time mine arrives.

Zuber

RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
navomaal @ 11/5/2002 12:05:19 PM #
Dear friends - I just used the screen protectors for compaq ipaq ( I have NEVER owned a ipaq - just experimented ) and it fits like a glove...

RE: Screen Protector for Tungsten T
Operator99 @ 11/5/2002 1:54:53 PM #
Navomall,

No Moire patterns with the Ipac protector - What Brand are the protectors?

Thanks.

screen calibration drift question.

jfox @ 11/3/2002 5:35:03 PM #
Howdy. Got my tungsten last week and for the most part it's pretty amazing. I've run into one issue though. About roughly once per day, the calibration on the input screen seems to drift. So far, the worst case has been between about 1/8" or so. Going back to the digitizer preferences and recalibrating solves the problem for a while, but not for long. Doing a soft reset helps the problem for a while, but it seems to eventually come back. Currently running only with applications loaded from the two Palm supplied CD's + a 256M SD card.

Is anybody else experiencing this? I haven't seen any mention of it on the web anywhere. Are there any issues with using a 256M SD card? Couldn't find any mention of that anywhere either, but I may have just missed something.

Anyway, any comments or help would be most welcome.
Thanks,
John

RE: screen calibration drift question.
navomaal @ 11/4/2002 6:42:32 PM #
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have skyscape programs and every now and then - I literally have to pound the stylus on the screen to get it to work.....I just though it was because of the thick screen protector ( IPAQ ) - but I guess its not......
I think I am going to go back and exchange mine....


RE: screen calibration drift question.
djeffery @ 11/4/2002 8:59:51 PM #
I've had my TT since the day before it officially went on sale, and I only calibrated it the first time I started it up. Incidentally, I started running it with my "old" 64MB MMC and switched to a new 256MB SD Tuesday or Wednesday of last week.

I know that many people had their TTs before I got mine, so I think that if there were a general calibration issue then more people would have noticed it by now.

David

RE: screen calibration drift question.
vinw @ 2/22/2003 12:27:03 AM #
I have the same calibration problem as you did.

I have to re-calibrate it every day. It works for some times after calibration but it drifts later.

How do you fixed this?

Do I need to send it back and repair it?

Thanks a lot

Vincent

RE: screen calibration drift question.
n9pv @ 6/16/2003 10:50:07 AM #
has anyone found a cause and/or fix for the digitizer drift.
Best buy replaced mine about 3 months ago and now this one is doing the same thing,

RE: screen calibration drift question.
Libitum @ 10/17/2003 1:28:25 PM #
I have the same problem!!!, I'm running some applications on mi SD Card 128 Plus, an using the XLauncher, at the beginning I think that the drift was caused by the tungsten mechanism, or maybe some dirt, or perhaps the screen protector, but no, removing those things didn't helpe.

Anyone with a fix, please tell me... Regards!!!

RE: screen calibration drift question.
sjlaing @ 7/11/2004 7:43:55 PM #
I too have this problem

I am also having this problem and getting very fed up with it. This seems to be quite a common problem. Can anyone from palm offer some input on how to fix this (is it fixable?) or should we return the tt for repair?

FOR THE THIRD TIME, PLEASE SOMEBODY ANSWER ME!!

Ces @ 11/3/2002 6:03:00 PM #
I need to know if there is compatibility on the OS5 Tungsten T with the most commonly used medical programs (Handheldmed Reader, Franklin Reader, Skyscape Medical books, etc.)

RE: FOR THE THIRD TIME, PLEASE SOMEBODY ANSWER ME!!
asiayeah @ 11/3/2002 11:30:08 PM #
Why don't you ask the software provider directly? Do they answer you?


--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: FOR THE THIRD TIME, PLEASE SOMEBODY ANSWER ME!!
kleung21 @ 11/4/2002 6:56:25 AM #
Hi there,

Unfortunately, many programs are not compatible with OS 5.;

Specifically, the handheldmed READER v5.0 (the latest) does NOT work with the sd card. If you want to use version 4.0, it does work but you'll have to keep your books in main ram.

secondly, the installer for epocrates seems not to work.

I have loaded up skyscape versions of the programs instead, but they have a higher overhead and I don't like their formatting as much.

Kevin

RE: FOR THE THIRD TIME, PLEASE SOMEBODY ANSWER ME!!
navomaal @ 11/4/2002 6:40:51 PM #
Hey there - did you have any problems with skyscape???..I can't get past the screen which lets me choose wether the program is a trial, update or purchase.....I guess an error with the conduit....


RE: FOR THE THIRD TIME, PLEASE SOMEBODY ANSWER ME!!
Ces @ 11/4/2002 8:10:21 PM #
At last, now I can start to bother Handheldmed to release a new OS 5 Compatible reader before I buy My TT in Thanksgiving...Anybody want to help me start??

Thanks for the reply!

RE: FOR THE THIRD TIME, PLEASE SOMEBODY ANSWER ME!!
Ces @ 11/4/2002 8:13:58 PM #
So, at least Skyscape works...I dont like it either, but at least its something for now, 'til HHM catches up!

Did they throw a new version of the reader, or is it the same one that works??

RE: FOR THE THIRD TIME, PLEASE SOMEBODY ANSWER ME!!
Tuckermaclain @ 11/5/2002 7:07:58 PM #
I've just started loading software onto my 550. About 80% of them seem to work. I have had trouble with Ped Drugs, Onc Drugs, and the newer ones that have the smartreader prc tagged on. This was done just by dropping and dragging files onto my card from the desktop. I'm sure it will work fine if I do a new install on this machine. Has anybody been able to successfully change their ROM ID? The 550 doesn't seem to remember that it has a new ID when I use PalmName. The SkyScape stuff uses the ROM for the password, so it looks like I'll have to go begging to them for new passwords.

PS- Don't shout. It's not polite, especially when you're asking others for a favor. I emailed Skyscape myself and got and answer before I upgraded.

So what is the real life then?

Take1 @ 11/3/2002 11:47:06 PM #
You need to remember that 3.5 hours on an iPaq a couple of years ago was with what you might call "heavy use." The 3.5h quoted in the review refers to an unofficial test while playing a video off a card.

Get some perspective before you start chastising people about their perception..
----------------------------------------------------

I see -- so Palm is incorrect with their 30 min. x 7 days. They intentionally underrated their device?

Are you saying that it get 5 or 6 hours at medium backlight? What IS the correct perception you claim I have no clue and no right to have? Please tell me what's the REAL device life. Waiting for your reply.



RE: So what is the real life then?
Take1 @ 11/4/2002 12:10:14 AM #
Never mind. Went back to PDABuzz and couln't find one comment badmouthing the iPAQ or even mentioning battery life back in 2000. Must have been smoking something!

Sorry for the outburst... gotta get my perspective...



MP3s and videos

mike500 @ 11/4/2002 9:46:27 AM #
Are you suggesting that I can watch an episode of my favorite TV show on the palm. How would I do that! Where can you download a full lenght episode? And what about real movies. How do you convert them to PDB format? A regular DVD won't let you do that!

RE: MP3s and videos
Admin @ 11/4/2002 12:57:56 PM #
Yes you can! You'll want Kinoma producer a large SD card and you'll have to convert the video yourself or find it online

kleung21

sw99 @ 11/4/2002 3:12:20 PM #
kleung21-- Re: Software installation on Tungsten T... please email me at fogeyrock@yahoo.com.
Thanks.

RE: MP3s and videos

mike500 @ 11/4/2002 4:27:30 PM #
Can someone please post a link where I can download real videos to view on the Palm. (Besides the samples at Kimona and the four trailers at Sony!)

Memory cards, on-screen keyboard, Mac OS X apps

teej @ 11/4/2002 5:30:41 PM #
Just got a Tungsten T (my first Palm - I'm still using a Newton, and apart from the size I still love it, but it will be retired once I figure out how to get all my data onto the Palm) - and so far I'm very pleased. 3 questions Palm offers no help with:

1. Does any SD card work with the Tungsten? 128MB, 256MB. Any issues I should be aware of before I buy a card?

2. Is there any way to bring up an onscreen keyboard WITHOUT sliding down the bottom half of the Tungsten? Surely there's a way to program one of the buttons to bring the keyboard up so I can do a quick search without having to slide the thing down.

3. Does anyone using Mac OS X know if there is a way to HotSync with iCal or Address apps rather than with the Palm Desktop equivalents?

Thanks much!

RE: Memory cards, on-screen keyboard, Mac OS X apps
i @ 11/4/2002 8:32:17 PM #
To answer your third question, iSync handles all of that. Just check www.apple.com/isync to download.
RE: Memory cards, on-screen keyboard, Mac OS X apps
kleung21 @ 11/4/2002 11:37:00 PM #
To answer your second question,

try out the program newpen (version 1.4).

It allows you to write graffiti on the main screen without opening up the keyboard.

Kevin


RE: Memory cards, on-screen keyboard, Mac OS X apps
hkklife @ 11/5/2002 11:34:28 AM #
To attempt to answer your first question, Palm OS 4.0 had a problem recognizing SD cards larger than 64mb. This was resolved (I can confirm it) in 4.1 and I personally use a (later rev.) Sandisk 128mb card every day w/ no problems. I've talked to people who use a 256mb card on their m515s and upgraded m505s with no problems at all.

So I would really imagine that the T|T can easily handle 256 mb cards and (I'd assume) 512 mb cards.

Where to buy TT

palmit @ 11/5/2002 1:29:03 AM #
See that Amazon is offering $50 rebate n free shipping for Palm TT. Any one seen any better deals?
RE: Where to buy TT
kleung21 @ 11/5/2002 6:44:37 AM #
That is a good price.

But note that they do not mention that they have it in stock. Only that they will ship when it becomes available.


RE: Where to buy TT
palmit @ 11/5/2002 11:56:14 AM #
Yes, I also noticed that. Just saw that you can get TT from www.PageComputers.com for $439 + shipping. Can use the $50 that u save to buy D-link BT usb adaptor.

RE: screen calibration drift question.

IanJD @ 11/5/2002 1:39:35 PM #
I don't get a calibration drift, but the menu area of the screen sometimes takes more than one tap to register; I'm returning it as faulty.

Another odd thing with mine is that the lower 20% of the backlight range is completely black, and the lowest light level I get actually flickers like a faulty fluorescent tube.

I did an estimate of battery life at half illumination for continuous use, usual things like Bejewelled, Quickoffice, hotsyncing, card backups, some on-idling, and got a first warning after 237 minutes, just under 4 hours. Reducing the backlight to minimum only extended that to 264 minutes.


Potential Hardware Accessory

bytor @ 11/5/2002 5:04:39 PM #
Ok..
Perhaps this is a bit farfetched but a piece of hardware I would like to see is a portable DVD player similar to a portable CD player with a Universal connector on the end. The connector would of course provide the video and audio feed for the Tungsten. The design is already in place and I cant believe the electronics are much different than a portable CD player. You could completely remove the audio section and use 4 or 6 AA cells as suplimental power for the unit. The audio would of course be routed to the headphone jack on the Tungsten. It would be a good travel companion for the Airplane...

Long Live Visor Prism
RE: Potential Hardware Accessory
hkklife @ 11/5/2002 11:12:41 PM #
Nice idea, but I doubt the Palm's screen could handle the proper aspect ratios for widescreen movies (while keeping a device attached to the UC). Also, the UC bus probably doesn't have near enough bandwidth to handle a 30fps AV stream.

On a related note, what I'd REALLY like to see is a larger clamshell style unit, in the shape of the current portable DVD players with screens (from Aiwa, Panasonic, Samsung etc). But I'd add in a built in GPS system with a fold out antenna. Enormous quantities of maps (international, domestic, and otherwise) could be stored on a single DVD-ROM. During non-driving time, the unit could play DVD movies or display digicam pics if equipped with a memory card slot. I think such a device would appeal to the road warriors (as well as long distance truckers) out there that can use a PDA for their computing tasks (ie don't need a laptop), but still want one more device that can both entertain and navigate. It would cerainly beat having to pay mega $$$ for expensive (and usually proprietary) GPS memory cards with a fraction of the storage space of a DVD disc. Just a thought.

Dust

StevenFW @ 11/5/2002 6:19:57 PM #
Yes, there are specks of dust under the screen-two right now, and there is a discussion about this in the PDABuzz forums...anyone here notice this yet?

A high-pitched whine?

Tuckermaclain @ 11/5/2002 7:04:04 PM #
Has anybody else noticed a soft, vrey high-pitched whine from their 550 when it is powered up? Mine makes one, although it is quite faint. No other Palm I've had did it.

RE: A high-pitched whine?
Bakedon @ 11/5/2002 9:27:01 PM #
Yes, its very soft but noticeable when quiet. My 505 does it every 5-10 times turned on, but much louder. I just turn off the 505 then back on and it stops. I didnt try it the T because its so soft I just forgot.

RE: A high-pitched whine?
Ces @ 11/5/2002 9:45:54 PM #
I have a m505 that does this....not since new though, although maybe I had'nt noticed till a few months ago...doesn't affect in anything though...has worked just fine (in fact, great!!) for the last 2 years.

...and now, I will pass it on to my father, and probably will work great for him for many years to come...I myself will evolve to the TUNGSTEN!!!!!!!!!



RE: A high-pitched whine?
IanJD @ 11/6/2002 6:13:08 AM #
My Vx used to do this when the backlight was on, very quiet though.

Dust under the screen

desoer @ 11/5/2002 9:27:23 PM #
Just playing several days, my TT has dust under the screen. 4 in lower right, 1 in lower left. Anybody know if dust issue covered under the warranty?

RE: Dust under the screen
StevenFW @ 11/6/2002 1:28:54 AM #
Check my comments above yours...I had several specks of dust on my first unit, with one in the middle....returned it to Staples....second unit had less visible dust specks on the bottom, and one around the outline of the screen...guess what, back to Staples for unit number 3, which at this time seems to be dust free....for now...this is foreboding as I get the feeling that this is going to be an ongoing problem...just read the forums at PDABuzz and you'll see what I mean...many people experiencing this, reminiscent of the HP PPCs....For $500, there should be no dust flecks...and for all those people that think we are being picky, you have to see what the specks look like...they are as bright as the screen and very noticable....so, what is the mechanism here-the new sliding feature or the plin old reflective screen...I really hope I don't have to get into warranty stuff here...I'd rather wait for revision 2 to fix this or think about a CLIE

RE: Dust under the screen
asiayeah @ 11/18/2002 8:17:18 AM #
Some Tungsten T also have dead pixels.

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

Just bought my Tungsten T!!!

Island Palm @ 11/6/2002 4:24:45 AM #
Just bought my Palm TT over the wkend for $580 and I am so stoked! I started out with a Palm III many years ago ... dumped it for a PPC ... and now I am back! Anyway, been toying around with my TT for the past 4 days (agressively) and am now running low on juice. I am sure I will be able to squeeze in 7 days worth of work once I get everything installed nicely. Bluetooth with my Ericsson T68i is a dream. Able to go to Yahoo Finance on Webpro and check out current stock prices. SMS is fantastic via bluetooth. I hotsync via bluetooth. The screen is way way better than my IPAQ. Voice recorder works real well. The only thing missing currently is an MP3 player and hdphones, and a 64mb SD card. It is far more reliable than my PPC (the numerous trips back to the service centre) and more portable. Overall, a 1st class effort for Palm. I have recommended to all my friends and they will be upgrading their PDA real soon!!!

RE: Just bought my Tungsten T!!!
Rhauer @ 11/6/2002 8:51:31 AM #
Island Palm, thanks for the thoughts. Just a few questions. Where are you located and what service do you use? Can you really leave the phone in your coat while suffing the net? Is it easy to get your email or do you have constanly keep checking.

Thanks again. PS If the MP3 is as good as the Clie, spend up for the 128 card. I had Vx w/Omnisky now the Clie 760, now I'm trying to find both Internet and MP3

RE: Just bought my Tungsten T!!!
Island Palm @ 11/6/2002 10:32:03 PM #
Island Palm, thanks for the thoughts. Just a few questions. Where are you located and what service do you use?
- I am currently in Singapore and am on GSM. Getting 28800 speed currently. Gonna check out with Singapore Telecom on more details on GPRS which should help reduce cost.
Can you really leave the phone in your coat while suffing the net?
- Yes! In fact, i leave my mobile in my bag while i surf and download my short messages (SMS).
Is it easy to get your email or do you have constanly keep checking.
- You have to use your dialup to check. if you are not downloading any attachments, it is decent.
I am currently waiting for the MP3 player for my TT. :)

RE: Just bought my Tungsten T!!!
Rhauer @ 11/6/2002 11:49:05 PM #
Thanks for the input. I ready to make the move to the TT and T68 but here in the US the service is still questionable.

Tungsten ships with old Browser - Clie gets the new..

M1 @ 11/6/2002 8:19:46 AM #
..I'm pretty hacked off about the Web browser bundled with the Tungsten.

Had read with excitement previews of the Web Browser due to ship with OS5 - included below.

Suffice to say Sony Clies OS5 products are shipping with this flagship new gen browser (proxyless, HTML4, CSS support etc).

The Tungsten ships with an awful proxy based thing called Web Pro that seems to be reskined old technology - it isn't as good as Blazer 1.1 and is slower. Web Pro supports none of the standards I am interested in for wireless browsing.

I want the Netfront 3 browser below - but - and here's the worry - there is no Palm OS version available for love nor money.

You can download PPC versions, Linux versions etc but no Palm.

I hope & pray that Sony haven't done an exclusive on this as without this browser my new TT is not much use to me (nice though it is).

Anybody got any info on this?

M1

-----------------------
About NetFront
NetFront v3.0 is a modular, scalable browser designed to meet the unique requirements of resource-constrained consumer information appliances, delivering high performance and an extensive feature set with low memory and power requirements. NetFront’s modular architecture allows for custom configurations for specific target hardware. This unique scalability allows NetFront v3.0 to cover a broad range of appliance profiles from mobile phones to digital televisions. In addition to the latest W3C specifications HTML 4.01 and XHTML 1.0, NetFront v3.0 supports enhanced features such as Dynamic HTML, ECMA Script (JavaScript), DOM (Document Object Model), CSS, and SSL (Secure Socket Layer). JV-Lite2, a J2ME compliant Java runtime environment, and an MMS client are also available as optional modules.


TT not for now

Jedi Knight @ 11/6/2002 11:46:31 AM #
Customer service at CarphoneWarehouse has been excellent. Can't complain about that. The thing about trying new TT until there is one without flaws doesn't really work because if there is a dust problem then it might as well appear later. Bad luck, if it is after the initial warranty time and you have to go to Palm directly. I've had bad experience with Palm's customer service and you would get a refurbished one anyway.

Hope your replacement unit will come without problems.


Wish for TT2

powerfox @ 11/6/2002 2:26:01 PM #
I wish for...

- Blue tooth
- Hi res with great color
- Audio

it's already come with TT

I wish more... for coming model (Perhaps TT2)

_ Internal RAM 32 or 64 with new type 90% less power consume
_ Changeable Batt. like cell phone 1 batt. can't survive long trip.
_ Jog dial (If possible)
_ Hard transparence flip cover PalmIII style(Best for one hand operation)

Fancy Lemons?

mike500 @ 11/6/2002 4:33:09 PM #
So what's going on? Is the TT a fancy lemon? Calibration problems, dust under screens, hacks don't work, high pitch sounds. This doesn't soung good for Palm's flagship device! I sure am glad I didn't run out to buy one. So when can we expect the the m515 of the Tunsten??????

RE: Fancy Lemons?
Ba-gug @ 11/7/2002 7:54:24 PM #
I have not had any of the problems with my TT that you have described, the only issue I'm dealing with is trying to find a cell phone carrier in my area that has BlueTooth ready phones, just about everyone I talk to says "Blue, what?' , and I live in central Illinois, not some po-dunk town.

Please buy Palm stuff, I want my stock to go back up so I can sell it!

Any opinions on bundled software?

Xizor @ 11/6/2002 6:24:35 PM #
I have a Sony CLIE N760C right now. I like the photo app and the MP3 app. I use 3rd party apps for the rest of my PIM requirements. Are there any opinions on the applications bundled with the T? I'm thinking about upgrading due to:
- Form Factor (same size except the ability to compact)
- Faster Processor
- SD cards are up to 512 and rumored 1 Gb on solid state! Memory sticks are stuck at 128
- Voice recorder
- Built in Bluetooth

I just want to be sure the applications are up to snuff...

Thnx in advance,

Tim

LauncherX and other tidbits I figured out the hard way

Tuckermaclain @ 11/7/2002 6:01:42 AM #
Launcher X is available in beta (very stable) from nxt clie club (sp?) the yahoo group. It is really nice and works well on the 550. The digitizer drift was a pain. I used sure tap and whenever it (the palm)reset it locked me into my last search..took a hour to figure it out. You can write on the screen and never have to slide it open with "newpen" which is freeware from PalmGear. You only have to access the grafitti area after a reset to re-activate it. This makes using it much easier and more Zen-like. Has anybody found a way to change the ROM ID? My Palm doesn't remember what PalmName tells it.

First impressions

mklein @ 11/7/2002 8:17:56 AM #
Got a Palm Tungsten T a few days ago and wanted to share my first impressions of the device:

- AWESOME display! Colors are fantastic, white background makes everything very readable. Like some others my TT has a piece of "dust", about 1/16" to 1/8" in length at the lower right-hand part of the display. It sits just outside the main display screen and becomes more noticeable the brighter the backlight. Not sure if I'll exchange the unit because of the "dust" as everything else seems to be working very well - i.e., no high-pitched sound coming from speaker or any of the other hardware-related issues mentioned in earlier PIC postings.

- Other TT hardware: application keys have a nice feel as does the directional control. An extremely nice feature is that the "select" button in the center of the directional control, when pressed and held for about 2 seconds, brings up the application launcher. This keeps you from having to open the slider every time you want to run another application. (This feature does not works correctly from all of the built-in applications but not with some others - for example, BugMe! version 4.2.)

Stylus: without a doubt, the TT stylus is absolutely the BEST I have ever used! It has a much smoother feel when writing on both the m515 and TT screens than the standard m515 stylus. Unfortunately the TT stylus doesn't fit in the m515's silo. When extended, the TT stylus is almost exactly the same length as the standard m515 stylus. What's really nice is the TT stylus can be used to do a soft reset on the TT, where the m515's stylus cap has to be unscrewed.

- Applications: all of my legacy applications have worked, with the exception of SimpleSketch and ListMaker. Had to install the latest version of BugMe! (v4.2) as version 4.0, although supposedly compatible, didn't save notes properly and consistently caused the TT to reset. SilverScreen launches IMMEDIATELY - the "please wait" dialog that I had gotten used to seeing on my m515 never appears on the TT. WordSmith is nothing but AWESOME on the TT, taking full advantage of the hi-res display. Even the smallest of fonts is absolutely crystal clear on this display! The built-in Voice Memo application is VERY cool and playback sound through the TT’s speaker is excellent!

- Astraware games: have played Bejeweled, Candy Cruncher and Zap2016! so far. Bejeweled looks great and sounds great, play is very fast. Zap2016! is simply AWESOME on the TT!

- Palm Portable Keyboard: downloaded the beta keyboard driver available on Palm's website and it is working perfectly! Wrote this review on the TT using the PPK and WordSmith and encountered no issues.

- Battery life: played games on my m515 and the TT last night for about an equal amount of time, both with the backlight on a low setting. The m515's battery didn't move from 100% but the TT was down to 92%, checked with SilverScreen's battery indicator. Need to use both devices over several days to get a real feel for battery life on the TT. Awesome battery life on the m515 has always been one of my favorite features as I never had to worry about carrying a travel charger.

Bluetooth: used BlueBoard and BlueChat between the TT and the m515 with Palm Bluetooth card. Everything worked smoothly althought the TT did reset itself once when switching between the two applications. TT Bluetooth doesn't seem to use up the battery as quickly as does the Bluetooth card on the m515. Also noticed that the devices couldn't discover each other if I left one or the other in BlueBoard or BlueChat and switched to the other application. Had to get back out to the application launcher for discovery to be successful.

Overall, my first impressions of the TT are extremely favorable. What you really need to decide is if the decreased battery life is worth the extra processing power and hi-res display. So far, I think the tradeoff is definitely acceptable, as long as you can find replacement applications for any legacy apps you're using that might not work on the TT. As mentioned above I've only had two apps that don't work on the TT.


TT or T665?

davsug @ 11/7/2002 1:08:22 PM #
OK, I need some opinions. I'm a major-league gadget geek, like most others here, and PDAs are one of my weaknesses. I've owned most of them (ppcs, palm os, Newton, etc). I currently have a Sony T665, and I love it. Great design, amazing screen, MP3s, etc. Here's my question: I want the TT. It looks very cool, and, of course, it's the newest thing. Is there any real benefit to my switching from the 665 to the TT? Aside from the Bluetooth, what are the benefits? Is OS5 that much of a difference? Any and all feedback is appreciated.

RE: TT or T665?
Gekko @ 11/7/2002 6:01:04 PM #
I would just keep your T665. the main reason I upgraded from my m515 to the TT was the HI-RES - which you already have. You aren't missing much imo.

RE: TT or T665?
Xizor @ 11/8/2002 12:30:39 AM #
You know, I'm almost in the same boat, but I have a N760C, which I love. If I had a T665 I would probably keep it, but the N760C is getting out of date, ergo I think I'll be upgrading to the TT. I was disappointed that the TT doesn't come with packaged MP3 software and the IR range is weak (no universal remote...) but the software is coming and I already have a Philips Pronto for my remote control needs :-) That coupled with the Bluetooth, the coolness factor should be enough to keep me happy for another year... until Sony comes out with something blows our socks off...

Versamail problems

davy @ 11/7/2002 1:25:54 PM #
1) I just called Palm tech support and found that Versamail doesn't delete mail from the server (e.g., Outlook) when you synchronize. Although the option can be selected/configured in Versamail, Palm support said they've disabled the capability b/c users complained of losing mail on the server after synchronizing.

Any suggestions for a workaround besides manually deleting emails? Or will this require enough complaints from users for the option to reverse this change?

2) For those considering upgrading to the Premium version of DataViz Docs to Go, Versamail doesn't yet recognize the extra plug-ins. According to DataViz, Palm didn't get the license for the additional plug-ins.

RE: Versamail problems
duderoo @ 11/5/2003 7:51:54 AM #
Davy, did you have any solution to this?

Vinyl protectors

XScale @ 11/7/2002 4:31:24 PM #
Where do you find the 5 mil vinyl in the fabric store? Does it come in sheets, rolls, or what? What is its primary use other than making homemade screen protectors? :)

Avantgo

rw747 @ 11/8/2002 2:43:44 AM #
I find it unbelievable that Avantgo whose business model is to support the mobile world is not up to scratch on OS5.
In my case it is not trivial as the prog will not sync at all.


RE: Avantgo
rokiteer @ 11/8/2002 8:47:54 AM #
Keep in mind, Avantgo is a small company that charges you nothing for the service they provide. On the other hand, their paying customers--businesses (of all sizes) that are mobilizing their enterprises--are no doubt more cautious about the units they deploy and don't like being guinea pigs, like anyone who is running OS5 right now. I'm not a willing test subject either, that's why I bought a Clie SJ30 last weekend. I won't have any trouble with my Avantgo or other legacy apps/hacks/DA's, and that's the way I like it.

Palm vs. PPC

beevee @ 11/8/2002 11:33:31 AM #
People have said to me "You're a techy kind of guy. How come you prefer that Palm thing over this PPC? Look it has Windows and Outlook and everything..."

I always just look at them and say, "It's exactly because it has Windows that I detest it so much. I have to use Windows every day at work, the last thing I want to do is use on my handheld too..."

Besides which, it just doesn't fit...

B

CASES???

Ces @ 11/9/2002 1:49:06 AM #
Anybody know about 3rd party cases for the TT other than the ones sold at the palm store??

Screen flicker subject:

Ces @ 11/9/2002 1:50:35 AM #
Anybody know if the "screen flickering" should be considered a "normal" thing??

...I mean, first of all, is it normal for the TT's front-light to be turned OFF (not low, but OFF) when putting the slider in the lowest setting??

...Then, if this is "normal", should'nt it be also normal (since the slider is so graduable) for the screen to "flicker" at a given point between off and low??

..my guess is that this is a normal thing...every "dimmable" ligh bulb does this at a given time between off and normal if you move the dimmer up veeery solwly!!

email on Hot Sync is gone in Tungsten T... help, please

mswunder @ 11/9/2002 6:28:24 AM #
Just purchased Tungsten T. Does not Hot Sync with my Outlook email program. No default email functionality included with TT (something my m515 and Vx always had...). Called Palm and they said this machine is "Bluetooth focused", but that a program would be forthcoming to help VersaMail work on Hot Sync instead of just dial-up. Anybody heard of this or know if this is true?

mswunder
RE: email on Hot Sync is gone in Tungsten T... help, please
mart @ 2/24/2003 3:29:13 PM #
hi, matthew... I know this is some time after your post, but I have the same problem as your self... did you ever find a fix?

How's the TT under bright daylight?

margon1 @ 11/9/2002 4:54:24 PM #
Does the Palm TT provide for an optional "off" setting for the brightness (available in the M515)? I needed this option to see things under the sun when I'm in the fields. Thanks for any input on this. I presently own a Prism and it's hard to see things under the sun. Thanks

RE: How's the TT under bright daylight?
palmit @ 11/9/2002 5:24:25 PM #
Yes, you can turn off the backlight.

Tungsten screen question for any owner:

Ces @ 11/10/2002 11:02:14 AM #
Is the sidelight of the screen supposed to turn off at the lowest brighness setting of the adjusting slider, or is it suuposed to be very low (but still illuminated)??

RE: Tungsten screen question for any owner:
palmit @ 11/10/2002 4:21:49 PM #
My does the same thing.
RE: Tungsten screen question for any owner:
Ces @ 11/10/2002 5:21:13 PM #
...it does'nt mention anything about that in the instructions...on the other hand it doesn't say it doesn't (excuse the redundance)....thow it really doesn't bother me...

RE: Tungsten screen question for any owner:
Ces @ 11/11/2002 11:31:24 PM #
Wrote to Palm today, and they told me that the TT is supposed to turn its sidelight to off when moving the slider completely to the lowest position; so I think were OK...no returns for now, THANK GOD!

Do standard features stay when upgrading??

Ces @ 11/10/2002 1:35:38 PM #
If you have like 500 (or more) phone numbers in your contacts, and a lot of reminders, like birthdays and other important stuff in your calendar, do they stay accurately in place when you upgrade from, say, a m505 to a TT?

RE: Do standard features stay when upgrading??
mswunder @ 11/10/2002 8:27:33 PM #
all of this stuff stays intact. i've upgraded from a palm professional to a palm iii to a palm v to a palm vx to a palm m515 and now to a tungsten. all intact...

Keyboard driver posted !!

mstur @ 11/10/2002 3:00:34 PM #
Great news for everyone !!
Palm has heard us: they are now offering the 1.9 beta driver for the Stowaway keyboard on their support website:

http://www.palm.com/support/beta/tungstent_keyboard_legal.html

I installed it in my Palm Tungsten T, and it works even with my German keyboard.

HANDHELDMED...

Ces @ 11/10/2002 9:24:18 PM #
OK, I now know that skyscape works with the TT. But I still need to know if anybody has made a test to see if the Handheldmed reader (a medical book reader; the site is www.handheldmed.com) works with the Tungsten.

Has anybody figured this out?
Am I the only one that uses this reader??

RE: HANDHELDMED...
Tuckermaclain @ 11/11/2002 1:32:17 AM #
It works on my 550.

RE: HANDHELDMED...
Ces @ 11/11/2002 6:41:10 PM #
You mean to say that there's no upgade needed??

WOW, GREAT NEWS...I cant live without this reader!!

Buying the TT tomorrow!!! (that is...If I dont get there on time today, JAAA!!)

Finally,
THANKS A LOT FOR ANSWERING!

RE: HANDHELDMED...
Ces @ 11/11/2002 11:26:21 PM #
Anyway, just in case it does give you a few problems I wrote HHM and this is what they answered me....


"We do not have a Reader for the Palm OS 5 at this time. We are working
on this and should have it complete in the very soon (1 week). We
appreciate your patience in this matter.

Thank You
Handheldmed Customer Support"

Less Convenient than Palm 515

goveil1 @ 11/11/2002 2:04:43 PM #
I've had the Tungsten T for a little over a week now, and I may be the only person on the planet who feels this way, but this new form factor is less convenient than the old one:

1. Who cares about the LENGTH of the PDA? Its the width and depth you care about
2. Who cares about protecting the graffitti area? Its the who screen that needs to be protected if its to be a caseless form-factor
3. The collapsable pen is a not convenient, either.

So a simple use of the Tungsten takes 2-3 extra movements. I wish they'd simply kept the original form factor and upped the screen resolution.

I am not a basher: I have had every Palm made and I waited for the Tungsten rather than get any Sony, etc.

I am thinking of returning the Tungsten because, for most use, its actually less convenient, coupled with the fact many applications don't work yet: Avantgo, WordComplete, etc.

Comments??

RE: Less Convenient than Palm 515
Gekko @ 11/11/2002 2:34:08 PM #
I agree 1,000%. Also - Where's the nice leather flap cover? That plastic screen cover is a PIA. 32MB RAM wouldn't have hurt either. I'd rather have 32-64MB RAM vs. Bluetooth. They say no one uses more than 16MB RAM, but i wonder how many really use BT.

RE: Less Convenient than Palm 515
palmit @ 11/11/2002 6:15:38 PM #
I like the new form. Try to keep the unit closed most times, using NewPen for input. BlueTooth is a big plus, no more cables for Hotsync and PAN internet access. Waiting for MP3 player, better Web browser, Fireviewer & Avantgo support (just a matter of time). Long term hope that it will be possible to upgrade it to OS6. I think the new TT is an understated device that has plenty of potential.
RE: Less Convenient than Palm 515
Tuckermaclain @ 11/12/2002 3:23:18 AM #
Try NewPen. It is made for OS5. You can write graffiti on the screen just like Jot did. You never have to open the slider then to enter text. Much less hassle. It is freeware to boot! Can't help ou with the stylus or cover.

RE: Less Convenient than Palm 515
SwissFreek @ 11/15/2002 1:11:28 AM #
IMHO, length DOES matter. I can't fit a NR60 comfortably into my pocket, and I am a big guy. When I sit down, i feel the thing jabbing into my side. Forget getting it out without some contortions. I don't mind the stylus so much. I like the basic design of it a lot in fact (metal with hard plastic tip). It doesn't stick to the screen as much as the old design and I feel it will scratch the screen less easily. As far as software, well, if we are the first to jump ship we need to deal with the lifeboat not being totally ready. I'm a Mac user, I dealt with this with OS X, I can deal with it again. It's just a matter of time. I feel the potential is there and the end result will be worth it. Personally I can't get enough of the hi resolution and the Dpad. I think those two features along make it worth upgrading.

RE: Less Convenient than Palm 515
SwissFreek @ 11/15/2002 1:16:11 AM #
Oh yah and I think the flip cover on my m515 was the dumbest thing ever. It flipped open all the time and allowed the buttons to be pushed in your pocket. It really didn't protect the screen from much of anything, and on my particular PDA it came off relatively easily. I'm glad to be able to own a PDA with a cover like I used to have on my Visor. And it's clear to boot!

Battery Life

allenpoon @ 11/14/2002 2:17:01 PM #
the only thing i feel uncomfortable with Tungsten T is its battery life. i got used to recharge my Vx only once a week while this little TT spends me 30% of the battery in one day. now i just recharge it every nite and don't wanna get the battery low message on the next day.

BTW, how often do u recharge ur Tungsten?

RE: Battery Life
SwissFreek @ 11/16/2002 1:05:22 AM #
I drop it in the cradle whenever i am home, so basically its charged from mid afternoon till morning and i never see the battery meter drop below the full mark.

RE: Battery Life
Tuckermaclain @ 11/16/2002 12:41:19 PM #
I know that NiCads would develop a memory if they were recharged before they were completely discharged. Any idea if the Li-ion does this? I try to wait until am very low before dropping it into the cradle. Is this required? One of you guys probably knows the answer to this.

RE: Battery Life
popko @ 11/17/2002 3:27:29 AM #
You don't need to worry about the "memory effect" that is common with NiCd. Li-Ion can be charged at any time and for as long as you like. (Well, there are internal circuits that is supposed to protect Li-Ion from overcharging)

Love isn't about becoming somebody else's "perfect person." Rather, it's about finding someone who helps you become the best person you can be.
RE: Battery Life
allenpoon @ 11/17/2002 8:07:04 AM #
so is the "first charge" of Li-ion battery important as Ni-cad does? Li-ion battery doesn't need an over-nite charge for the first time, right?

and here's my TT's battery performance:
i used my TT for my exam revision today starting from noon till around 8 tonite. fully charged when leaving cradle. only two softwares were used for the whole day: iSilo and Document-to-go (also Yishow as launcher), for reading .pdb and .doc files from SD card.

battery bar dropped to 70% at around 5pm.
finally before TT resting back on the cradle, only 42% left.

i dunno think TT can give me a 2-day battery life performance during these days i'm preparing for exam. condition may be even worse when BT is used, which i didn't turn on today.

how's ur TT perform?

RE: Battery Life
SwissFreek @ 11/17/2002 12:02:08 PM #
If you are using your T|T for 8 hours straight and losing about 50% of the battery power, in my subjective opinion you are about in the ballpark of the m515...

Kinoma

Ces @ 11/16/2002 1:39:25 PM #
Anybody know how to install & convert movies from the kinoma producer??

I'm trying to convert my movies from within my kinoma producer, but I cant because it just works with the *&%$#@#^%** quicktime player and it gives me a message saying that it needs an upgrade that's not available right now...this is just for AVI's....not a problem for MPEGS, but all my downloaded movies are AVI....does anybody know if theres a patch or something for the quicktime movie player that you can download??? ...I downoladed the one that was announced in the Kinoma produrer's site (in the FAQ's section), but i dont know where to put it for it to work...

Does anybody know anything about this??


I CAN'T SEE MOVIES IN MY TUNGSTEN!! :(

RE: Kinoma
asiayeah @ 11/19/2002 2:41:32 AM #
Have you tried to convert a quicktime movie? It works perfectly for me on *.mov files.

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

Dead Pixels

asiayeah @ 11/17/2002 2:11:39 AM #
I have just got my Tungsten T. It is dust free, but I have discovered 3 dead pixels at the botton of the screen. Those are tiny white dots, that one could see easily if the image is black.

Does Palm give any gurantee on the number of dead pixels?

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Dead Pixels
asiayeah @ 11/18/2002 7:13:51 AM #
I have finally gone to the shop in exchange for a new Tungsten T. You know what, I have opened 3 new boxes of Tungsten T. All of them have several dust under the screens. Some even have dusts in the middle of the screen!

Does anyone have a Tungsten T with no dust and no dead pixeL?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Dead Pixels
ptc @ 11/18/2002 2:14:11 PM #
No dust. No dead pixels. I've had it for a week or so now. Ordered it from PCconnection. I am extremely satisfied with the Tungsten!

_________
Paul C.
RE: Dead Pixels
asiayeah @ 11/18/2002 10:31:43 PM #
Hi Paul,

You are so lucky!

However, you may want to use a complete black background to watch for dead pixels.

I've told Palm about the dead pixel on its e-mail support. They've just asked me to soft-reset or hard-reset my Tungsten T. This didn't help and I've just returned my Tungsten T and waiting for the next shipment. (They still keep my money though!)

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Dead Pixels
hkklife @ 11/19/2002 1:52:44 PM #
Nope, no dust and no dead pixels here....tested on a black background. of course, I am dreading the day that I notice some dust under my screen so I am just keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best. All of my complaints with my T|T are the usual Palm business-related ones, ie no cases available with the unit launch, lack of AvantGo and other crucial app updates, lack of games supporting D-pad, etc etc etc.



RE: Dead Pixels
asiayeah @ 11/19/2002 9:57:04 PM #
hkklife,

It's so good for you. I think it's already good enough to get the Tungsten T dust free, at least in a first few months. ;-)

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

uppermost part of screen not sensitive

allenpoon @ 11/17/2002 8:19:56 AM #
do u have the same problem for ur TT? the problem is more noticeable when Yishow is used with tiny icons on top.
RE: uppermost part of screen not sensitive
palmit @ 11/19/2002 5:49:01 PM #
I had both the screen problem with top part of display and the brighness issue turning off at 'ab' position.

Returned it for new one and both problems are gone!

RE: uppermost part of screen not sensitive
tleeford @ 12/27/2002 2:57:50 PM #
I had the same problem. Returned the unit and still awaiting a new one to be shipped. Based on my research, this is a rare problem with the T units, but it's surely affecting some units!
RE: uppermost part of screen not sensitive
kavika @ 1/12/2003 12:06:21 AM #
FYI: I bought a TT today and had the same problem: No responsiveness on the top of the screen. After I found
this thread, I knew I had a lemon. Thanks for info.

RE: uppermost part of screen not sensitive
rc46 @ 1/21/2003 1:03:49 AM #
Same problem here. It is very intermittent though. If I tap the top and get no response I just tap the middle or the bottom and then tap the top again and it works fine. I think I will call Palm for a replacement unit though. Thanks for the info.

RE: uppermost part of screen not sensitive
hn @ 1/25/2003 7:00:04 AM #
I had the same problem--with the upper right corner especially--returned the TT, waiting for another...hoping it won't happen again...

RE: uppermost part of screen not sensitive
JasonX @ 3/12/2003 12:36:59 PM #
You can fixed this in *software* by going to the Palm site @
<http://www.palm.com/support/downloads/tungstent_digitizer.html>

SCREEN PROTECTORS

DEVANGELOU @ 11/27/2002 7:25:02 PM #
HAS ANYONE TRIED A SCREEN PROTECTOR ON THE TUNGSTEN T ? DOES THE SLIDER GET IN THE WAY ? AND WHO MAKES A SCREEN PROTECTOR FOR THE TUNGSTEN ?

RE: SCREEN PROTECTORS
Ces @ 11/30/2002 11:56:14 PM #
It's more or less the same size as for the 500 series (it IS still a 500 series device....a m550 to be exact!)...and YES, it slides below the slider thing just fine!

RE: SCREEN PROTECTORS
rblindsay @ 1/26/2003 3:28:30 AM #
Fellowes makes a screen protector designed especially for the TT--$19.99 for 12.

Alarm sounds...

Ces @ 12/2/2002 10:22:13 AM #
Hey, has anybody replaced the standard alarm sounds with the other "custom" alarm sounds made for the OS 4?? (the ones that include the tunes of star wars, indiana jones, etc...)?
Do they work??

Tungsten Problems with San Disk 128MB SD Card

mopcodes @ 12/4/2002 10:02:48 PM #
I've had my Tungsten about a month now and on 3 occasions I've lost data on my San Disk SD 128MB card.
I called Palm they had no known issues and I called San Disk and had the same story.

Turns out the SD card was getting flakey and dying. Now the Tungsten cannot even recognize it.

I wonder if anyone else has had problems with SD cards? Are they generally reliable?

Also are there any products that back up the SD card during a hot sync? Perhaps something that only backs up changes to the card?

D. Martin
Former Amiga/Commodore Author/Writer/Reviewer

Power-on with D-pad

ninewoods @ 12/6/2002 12:01:22 PM #
Forgive me if there is a post on this topic already. Is there a way to make the Tungsten power-up ONLY via the power button? The flat face and the raised D-pad make the TT particularly prone to being turned on while in your pocket, bag, etc. (way worse than, say, the Palm V).

The only other problem I can report is in trying to load small data files from third-party software--they just don't seem to appear on the Applications launcher.

I have Bluetooth synchronization working, I have my laptop (on a WiFi LAN) passing along a web connection via Bluetooth to the TT, and pretty much everything working, so thanks to many in this forum.

Still wishing there were an MP3 player, and a straight-up MPEG player (hey, my crappy digital camera can do it; why can't my Palm?)for Palm OS5...

RE: Power-on with D-pad
JasonX @ 3/12/2003 12:42:56 PM #
The "PowerOn for OS 5 v5.2" should do the trick, available as shareware from PalmGear.com:
<http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?sid=A5AB14DC-B711-4BFF-887D7C5873CBB0D1&prodID=45710>

Also there are a small selection of MP3 player emerging for OS5, these too can be Had from PalmGear.

The two most popular are "AeroPlayer 1.6.1" and "Pocket Tunes 1.7" both shareware and expire after 15 days. However a new (very new!) player "MMPlayer 0.0.2" is freeware, not as nice interface but does the job :)

I'd also suggest people get an "OS5 enhanced" multimedia player that takes advantage of the special hardware in a Palm TT. It's true that there are non-OS5 players but may not perform so good.

All that said we're still waiting for Real to cough-up there "RealAudio player for Palm" app promised earlier this year.
<http://www.realnetworks.com/company/press/releases/2002/palm.html>

James Bond couldn't have done it better.

Kaelri @ 12/12/2002 6:43:30 PM #
Excuse the culturified slogan.

This thing is pretty much my dream-electronic-device... I need it... being a writer myself, it combined with microphone recording, headphone jack and Stowaway keyboard, not to mention wireless, I am struggling to maintain my budget. I also do not normally use all-capitals, but in this case it is necerssary, as follows: I WANT THIS PALM!!!!!!!!!

Hi.

Tungsten and GPRS

MallyG @ 12/19/2002 12:02:35 PM #
Can anyone help me? I have a Tungsten T and a Nokia 7650. Bluetooth works fine, as does regular internet connection. However, when I use GPRS, the connection dials and establishes, but goes no further. Instead, I get an error message asking me to check the 'host address'. The Palm website sort of addresses the problem, in the sense that it seems to blame Vodafone for 'blocking TCP ports' (whatever they are). Vodafone, however, insist they are not blocking anything! Suprise, surprise, they suggest I contact Palm.

Help........

Comments

Impartial @ 1/3/2003 8:58:25 AM #
There are WAY too many comments here... Yes, I know this isn't helping.

Am I helping yet?

Tungsten T Keyboard

Kell @ 1/30/2003 9:00:55 AM #
is the regular foldable palm keyboard the same for the TT or does it require a special keyboard?

the salesgirl in the comp shop i went to said it had a different keyboard because of the sliding face plate. but i saw the picture in the palm website and the keyboard looked like the regular one to me.

i want to buy one to replace my dying m500 but if the regular keyboard works i wouldn't have to sell my logitech keyboard.

RE: Tungsten T Keyboard
friviere @ 7/1/2003 7:49:26 AM #
Its the same, but becareful, it's very fragile. My came out of the pacakge broken and I have many difficulties to get it repaired !


Not as good as it should be

littld @ 2/15/2003 9:11:18 AM #
Bit dissapointed with this new Palm. The excellent M515 led the way with a thin and light design. The Tugnsten looks thick and is quite heavy - beyond my shirt pocket at least.

What I want is an updated M515 with a faster processor and MP3 support in the same beautiful design.

Unfortunately, hardware design and build quality at Palm has gone down of late and the competition (Sony) isn't very good either.....!

Off to buy a PocketPC anyone?

RE: Not as good as it should be
twomeyd @ 7/25/2005 11:24:22 AM #
I agree. I have been very disappointed with my Palm Tungsten throughout its life. It loses its calibration regularly and now the screen will not work at all. It is quite bulky and heavy and the leather case strap falls just over the very part of the screen you want to see when you open it. Overall a disappointing buy. Off to buy a pocket PC next time and I will drop this in a bucket of water!!



RE: Not as good as it should be
twizza @ 7/25/2005 12:14:38 PM #
To the original poster, aside from the issue with the Find function, the E2 will fit you needs.

As a whole, yes, the build quality has suffered as they have made changes to reflect a need for pofitability ratehr than just pleasing customers. No excuses, but it has happened the same in other industries and usually takes someone with heart to get things in order.

mobileministrymagazine.blogspot.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: Not as good as it should be
Foo Fighter @ 7/25/2005 2:42:18 PM #
Uh...why are we digging up this old thread from nearly 3 years ago?

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Not as good as it should be
carlmlewis @ 8/15/2005 5:42:47 PM #
Well, this model is great - when it works. And, I for one would like to continue this thread a bit longer. I've wanted to love my Tungsten T for a couple of years now, but thank my lucky stars that I bought the extended service plan. On my first unit, calibration of the digitizer started drifting after about eight months and the unit had to be exchanged. Now after a couple of years, the battery goes dead overnight after a full days charge, but only does it erratically, and not coincident with any new software installs. I'd like to stay with Palm and find a unit approaching the reliability of my old Palm 3C, but with modern features. Is that asking so much? Anyone wanna buy my T and see if it can be resurrected?

Carl M Lewis

I wish there was an upgraded 515

Careful @ 2/15/2003 9:44:41 PM #
I wish to make my first palm purchase and wish there was an upgraded 515. Having witnessed others having problems with their 505 I am concerned about the new Tungsten slider mechanism and the certain bugs that accompany a new release.

The 515 is a nicer machine than the TT and I wish it was available with an improved screen, OS5, more ram, a better processor and more memory.

Does any one know if there are plans to introduce this type of machine?

RE: I wish there was an upgraded 515
twizza @ 3/18/2003 8:26:06 PM #
honestly; if palm would have come out with a os5 refreshing of the m515 there would be jsut as many people complaining that palm did not have aninnovative design. personally i think that it would be a good idea ot have an os5 palm that would be in the V/Vx/m5xx form. wil palm do it. possibly. who knows what they will do next.

So how is the Tungsten T ????

blue1 @ 4/17/2003 4:07:01 AM #
Hello

I'm writing to you from Israel and wanted to ask if you Tungsten owners are happy with it ???? do you recomand it ???

Thanks

RE: So how is the Tungsten T ????
friviere @ 7/1/2003 7:51:41 AM #
It's nice but I had many problems:
I need to recalibrate everytime it goes off! All the updates installed without any result !
Crashes continously. I cannot even use applications without a crash, have to use YiShow !
The Palm Ultrathin Keyboard is very fragile, came out of the package broken and I am having a lot of problems to get it repaired !

Tungsten and the M-series

elpelp @ 5/3/2003 5:32:21 PM #
Hey - does anyone know if the universal connector is the same for the M-series as it is for the Tungsten. I'd like to use my m515 accessories with the Tungsten, such as a mini keyboard and travel chargers etc.!!

I'm seriously thinking of getting the Tungsten! Help!

Thanks!

RE: Tungsten and the M-series
Altema @ 5/3/2003 9:25:04 PM #
Yes, same connector. I just upgraded from the 515 to the T|T and have not used the T|T cradle yet. Cradle fits, travel charger fits, Palm Portable Keyboard works great (with the correct driver), and even the Magellan GPS sled works fine (as long as you don't have to have the Palm ALL the way open while attached, which is not needed in Mapopolis anyway).

RE: Tungsten and the M-series
hkklife @ 5/20/2003 10:03:17 AM #
Cases and Styli aside (of course), *every* single accessory I had for my m505 has worked on my T|T. I had a Palm portable keyboard, the Palm UC sled modem, a spare cradle, and the travel charger kit.

All of the above accessories work perfectly. The travel charger is a bit wobbly but I recently noticed that Palm has been selling a newer, revised version of the travel charger. It uses slide-in plug adaptors that take up a bit less room. The UC connector on the charging cable also fits the Z71 and T|T far more securely than my older one does.

Now if Palm could just begin to standardize somewhat on stylus shapes, we'd really be set! I will be the first to admit, I didn't have much faith in Palm's adherence to the UC standard but aside from the original Zire, they've stuck to it faithfully. Wow.

Need help with Fido Canada internet setup

Vitali @ 7/8/2003 9:46:24 AM #
Hi all!
I have just bought Tungsten T handled and have some problems with Internet access. I have Fido Canada as GPRS ISP and can access internet from my phone (Ericsson t39). But palm’s Phone Link Updater does not have Fido in ISP provider list. May be anyone knows the Palm Login Script settings for Fido Canada?
I’ll be really appreciated if someone could send me some instructions.
My email is

justaddress@yahoo.com

Thank you in advance.

Disable Palm Tungsten T mic?

bgrady @ 8/9/2003 12:31:17 PM #
I have a Palm Tungsten T and I would like to disable the microphone capability.
Is it possible to do in software? If not, is it possible to do in hardware (i.e. physically remove mic from device)? If this is the only alternative perhaps someone can advise me on how to remove the back of the device. Are there hidden screws under the sliding mechanism or some trick to getting it off?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Can i ask a question??

Quadratojugal @ 12/14/2006 4:31:53 AM #
I have a question: does a palm pilot over heat?

I have a question: does a palm pilot over heat??

I think my palm over heat??

Quadratojugal @ 12/14/2006 4:40:05 AM #
I forgot to turn off my palm for minutes when I notice it turned off. I though it was normal because it does turn off by itself but the problem is the place that I placed it on was hot like it over heated and I cant turn it on and I afraid to touch it anymore.

I have a question: does a palm pilot over heat??
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