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Comments on: Palm Tungsten T2 Review

Palm today introduced the Tungsten T2, an update to the original Tungsten T. The Tungsten T2 now includes much better screen, 32MB of RAM and runs Palm OS 5.2.1. The Tungsten T2 includes all the features of the original such as integrated Bluetooth wireless technology and bundles additional software at a debut price of $399. Read on for the full review.
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why bother?

tbellas @ 7/23/2003 1:47:50 AM #
why bother with such a small update???

Who cares?

I have the TT and why should get this?

I'll wait till the T3!

RE: why bother?
simond @ 7/23/2003 1:53:48 AM #
My guess is that they didn't really want people knowing about the T3 yet, I definitely wouldn't buy the T2 with the T3 in the pipeline either

RE: why bother?
DWD @ 7/23/2003 1:58:08 AM #
You have a T|T and you ask why you should get this? Ummm...you shouldn't...duh? When you buy a car and shortly thereafter the manufacturer makes a small incremental improvement, nobody expects you to run out and buy the new model to replace your perfectly good existing model. This update by Palm is directed solely at new purchasers.

RE: why bother?
tech77jp @ 7/23/2003 2:11:02 AM #
Exactly. Nobody cares about the T2... that is, nobody with a T|T. Others will. What would the consumer without a PDA rather have, a Tungsten T or a better model with a brighter LCD at the same price?

I find it rereshing that Palm is seriously investing in R&D. Otherwise it will keep losing market share to Sony... not that I mind that, but they seem unable to make an OS 5 model with a "normal" form factor.

RE: why bother?
hotpaw4 @ 7/23/2003 3:06:56 AM #
There are a lot more people who don't have a Tungsten (or any PDA) than there are people who do. They certainly care about getting a slightly more competitive model than the original T, especially at its original price.
RE: why bother?
Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2003 3:29:56 AM #
The bottom line on what Palm SG has done with this handheld is upgraded the screen and the amount of RAM (now possible with the latest version of the operating system).

This incremental upgrade pattern has been a standard evolutionary trend since the beginning. Go to www.PalmEvolution.com and study the branching:

pilot -> PalmPilot
Palm III -> IIIx -> IIIxe
Palm V -> Palm Vx
Palm VII -> Palm VIIx
m505 -> m515
etc. etc.

Take a good product, make a few updates and release another good product (kinda like this review ).

Cheers,

Dan

RE: why bother?
trophyofgrace @ 7/23/2003 9:26:34 AM #
I'm getting the T2 because I don't need everything the T3 has. I don't need Bluetooth *and* WiFi, one or the other will do me just fine. I get the T2, if I ever need WiFi, I'll get the SD WiFi card (if it ever comes out)...

---
Tyler Puckett
Palm m505 and m125.
64MB SanDisk SD Card
RE: why bother?
I know nothing @ 7/23/2003 9:47:09 AM #
Well, I think I am one of those few people who cared about the T2... Why? I just got my TT three weeks ago!!! SH&%!!! I should off know when they offer the rebate for upgrading an old Palm to the new models... :-(

Anyway, I am still happy with my TT but deeply troubled by the fact that I was three weeks too early in making my Palm upgrade... (I waited since November last year when the TT first came out and have been a loyal user of Palm starting from Palm, Palm Pilot, Palm Vx...) Ahhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:-(

Well, I guess my user ID said it all... I know nothing.

RE: why bother?
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 10:00:04 AM #
Price drops are always indications that Something Is Up.

Either poor sales or inventory clearance for a new model.

Also, talk of a Tungsten T2 has been around the Forums here for several weeks.

RE: why bother?
Beacon @ 7/23/2003 11:24:54 AM #
Have a theory on this upgrade.

Palm released the T2 because the supplies of the origional T screens had run out long ago. Replaced by the new screens. It's better to run with current than keep obsolete parts in stock. Add some more memory for fun and there you have it.

Could be easier to manufacture a T2 than continue with the T.

RE: why bother?
Sen @ 7/23/2003 1:37:33 PM #
Palm might notice that the price of $499 was too high for Palm's market. Now the T2 is just $50 over the TT. I guess the rumor of T3 is possibly real. Many pics of T3 looks like the prototype of this model so I guess that Palm will take a while to launch the T3. Might be mid of next year as the earliest. Anyone who buy T2 may need to make your mine for a big change of T3. Hence, I may suggest to wait for a year if you have a PDA already and just think to upgrade it.

RE: why bother?
ogun7 @ 7/23/2003 6:25:39 PM #
Do you think Staples will let me exchange my 2 week old Tungsten for this? (Someone got me for my old one)

And yes, I AM A MAC GEEK!!
RE: why bother?
amin @ 7/24/2003 6:59:16 PM #
Staples will let you return/exchange within 14 days.

e740 and T|T
RE: why bother?
em61 @ 7/27/2003 2:42:12 PM #
My guess is that it will not take too long for the T3 to appear, 3 months max. Both T2 and T3 can easily coexist in the same product line at different price points.

I was recently in a store to look at the latest PalmOS models, and I came away feeling that the Tungsten T-series was the only decently built machine. I was especially disappointed by the Tungsten C: it felt very cheap and especially the app buttons and 5-way controller feel awful. I was not impressed by any keyboard on any of the PDAs either.

I am a Palm m505 owner, and would still like to see a new model in similar form factor with a 320x480 screen. A slider has little use for me.

more pictures dispaly T2 / T

PDA-Forum.de @ 7/23/2003 1:52:11 AM #
If you compare the display from Tungsten T2 and Tungsten T you will choose a T2:
http://www.pdaforum.de/displayvergleich/
or
http://www.pdaforum.de/tungsten-t2/

Best greetings from germany

Markus
---
PDA-Forum - Alles rund um Palm OS Handhelds. http://www.pdaforum.de

RE: more pictures dispaly T2 / T
T.W.G @ 7/23/2003 12:39:24 PM #
Aha,

my boss is doing marketing here :-)

Greetings

Thomas
www.twgmusic.de


I'm Underwhelmed

ElTarasco @ 7/23/2003 1:52:48 AM #
I've been waiting to hear confirmation that the T2 is real and will soon be availible. No doubt many PIC users will lambast Palm for not incorporating additional features, however, at the end of the day, for the price point stated, this is a reasonable update to a solid design that will deliver improved functionality - More Memory, and better screen. I guess we'll have to wait for the next iteration of the Zire for some innovation.

RE: I'm Underwhelmed
elo @ 7/23/2003 11:49:59 AM #
Then you're not underwhelmed.

elo

Great Review...Great Product

DWD @ 7/23/2003 1:49:12 AM #
Great review Ryan and Dan. Looks like Palm has done a decent job of making an incremental update to the already great T|T.

Has the implementation of the web browser (now in ROM) using bluetooth changed at all? It has been such a universal headache for people to set up.

What is the effect on batter life of the new transflective color screen versus the old T|T screen?

Looks like the T2 will hold us all over nicely until the 320x480 T3 comes out.

RE: Great Review...Great Product
rsc1000 @ 7/23/2003 7:41:43 PM #
Yeah - these are small changes but good ones. More memory, bundling the RealOne player, and having the sound issue fixed without requiring instalation of the patch (and apparently the sound is louder) fixes the few complaints people had about the T|T. Now - if i they would just add a hard key for the app launcher so i wouldnt haver to open the damn slider or install a 3rd party product to exit some apps....

RE: Great Review...Great Product
Altema @ 7/23/2003 8:07:43 PM #
"Now - if i they would just add a hard key for the app launcher so i wouldnt haver to open the damn slider or install a 3rd party product to exit some apps..."

Holding the center nav button is supposed to be the launcher hard button, but some apps either take over control, or just don't handle it properly. Rather than opening the slider for those few apps, I'll just tap the voice memo, then use the nav button.

RE: Awesome Deal on TT2 Accessories Kit
rav @ 7/25/2003 5:26:33 PM #
GREAT DEAL on extras for the new Palm Tungsten T2 ( TT2 ) PDA - -

Amazon.com was selling the Palm Tungsten T ( TT ) Essentials Kit for $50 but lowered their price on the kit to $30 last week (with free shipping) when Palm announced they were discontinuing the Palm Tungsten T.

Palm intoduced the new Palm Tungsten T2 ( TT2 ) this past Wednesday (7-23-03) . All the accessories in the the Essentials Kit for the TT can be used with the TT2. Amazon is STILL selling the kit today for $30 (with free shipping) !

If you're buying a TT2 get the TT Essentials kit from Amazon - it's a GREAT DEAL !
On Wednesday, the Essentials kit was $26.99 ( I ordered 2 of them), but today they jacked it up to $29.99 - still a great deal !

The Palm TT Essentials kit (made by Palm - not some 3rd party manufacturer) includes :
a) Tungsten T Sleeve Case (which alone retails for $30)
b) Recharging HotSync USB Cable - portable Palm cable that hotsyncs and recharges unit directly from your computer's USB port (No AC recharger needed!)
c) 6 Premium Screen Protectors
d) 1 Cleaning Cloth for screen
e) 2 original TT Stylis


RE: Great Review...Great Product
rsc1000 @ 7/28/2003 10:21:53 PM #
>>Rather than opening the slider for those few apps, I'll just tap the voice memo, then use the nav button.

Yeah - i use that one too, but i have found a couple of apps that even override that (shouldnt be - but somehow...). The problem would be fixed once and for all if they just added a dedicated button that worked exactly as the silkscreen app launhcer button.

Just Like Sony?

DrAndrew @ 7/23/2003 2:02:53 AM #
Seems like Palm is now emulating Sony's new clamshells: incremental updates and nothing really exciting beyond a few minor improvements. At least Palm gives more useable memory than Sony. I'll wait for the T3 or the UX50.

Cheers!

RE: Just Like Sony?
abosco @ 7/23/2003 2:05:36 AM #
Actually, if this thing is anything like what Sony does, it's all about refinement, not major improvements. A lot of odds and ends problems are probably fixed up in this device. Sure, it doesn't boast crazy specs or dual wireless, but it's powerful, cheap, and has attention to detail. To some, that may very well be more important than a more powerful device with a more powerful price tag.

-Bosco
Available RAM on Sonys is a sad joke
The Ugly Truth @ 7/23/2003 2:47:06 AM #
"At least Palm gives more useable memory than Sony."

More but still not enough for power users. We should be getting 64 or 128 MB of RAM as standard on Palms by now. The only reason Sony and Palm shortchange us on RAM is so they can sell more Memory Sticks and SD cards. Those subnotebook CLIEs that are coming out soon are the worst offenders. They should have been given whatever OS the need to have AT LEAST 64 MB of RAM.

RE: Just Like Sony?
Altema @ 7/26/2003 10:15:44 PM #
Of course 64Mb on a Palm OS device is quite a bit more usable than 64Mb on other devices, mainly because they do not have to maintain a virtual RAM/Hard Drive combination like PPC. It's no fun having an executed application occupy two places in RAM just because of OS structure limitations, a problem which Palms do not have do deal with.

I agree completely that we need more RAM. 32Mb is more than enough for 98% of users, but not quite enough for you and me. I'm holding out for the T|T form factor with 64Mb, even if I have to get it modified. The new Mapopolis Navigator maps I'm waiting for are huge... just the two areas I need most total over 7Mb.

RE: Just Like Sony?
rsc1000 @ 7/28/2003 10:25:57 PM #
>>Those subnotebook CLIEs that are coming out soon are the worst offenders. They should have been given whatever OS the need to have AT LEAST 64 MB of RAM.

People slamming the Sony UX should read the fine print: although it has 16MB standard RAM, it has an additional 29MB that acts as Memorystick compatible RAM. This gives a total of 45MB of RAM. This approach is better i think - you can finally store files other than .prc, .pdb, .pqa in your devices RAM. People are used to the old paradign on this one, but i think this is actually one of the unsung innovations of the UX. Having said this - i'm still no fav of the UX devices because of the case design & keyboard, and the heinous stupidity of having no portrait mode.

TT3 and TT4

Hodgen @ 7/23/2003 2:30:05 AM #
Hi,I'm from China.
Many users in China have been in possession of TT2 for 1 or 2 months.
Now we are talking about TT3 and have a little information with TT4.

RE: TT3 and TT4
gfunkmagic @ 7/23/2003 2:54:08 AM #
Quote: "Now we are talking about TT3 and have a little information with TT4."

What kind of info do you have about the TT4?


Visit http://goodthatway.com/
-better living through better technology.

RE: TT3 and TT4
Hodgen @ 7/23/2003 3:12:48 AM #
400MHz Intel PXA263
64M Intel StrataFlash Memory
ATi Imageon 3200 chip
Palm OS 6...

RE: TT3 and TT4
Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2003 3:53:24 AM #
...interesting...

Got hardware specs for the TT3?

RE: TT3 and TT4
Hodgen @ 7/23/2003 5:30:19 AM #
TT3:
400MHZ
64M memory
BT
320x480 VG
OS5.2.1

RE: TT3 and TT4
Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2003 7:06:43 AM #
....!

heh, TT5?? ;)

RE: TT3 and TT4
ozz @ 7/23/2003 10:27:29 AM #
HEY Hodgen, tell us more about the T4. I liked what I read about the T3 but now with the T4 lurking around the corner, then the T5, T6 and probably T10, I may just wait. ......just when I thought it was safe to get back in the water! LOL

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: TT3 and TT4
DrAndrew @ 7/23/2003 11:06:45 AM #
LOL, if Palm follows Sony's lead, the T2 will already be discontinued by the time I post this :)

Myself, I'll wait like the previous poster for the T10 next year :)

RE: TT3 and TT4
asiayeah @ 7/23/2003 11:45:52 AM #
There's certainly more leaked information available about upcoming Palm models these days. Why?

Because newer Palm models are assembled in China...and China vendors usually have little respect towards confidentiality.

I hope the Chinese manufacturers soon realize this, before this issue drive away all foreign customers.


--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: TT3 and TT4
HandyMan @ 7/23/2003 4:40:35 PM #
I say "Yah" to Chinese leaks. If the TT3, as reported, is real I'm very interested in it. As a T665C user I'm getting tired of waiting for Sony to create the Clie that we all wanted... a OS5 device with VG without the clamshell.

While we're spreading wild rumours, is the TT4 similar to the TT3 with VG?


RE: TT3 and TT4
SaabCaptain @ 7/23/2003 8:02:53 PM #
The intresting thing about the leaked TT3 photos and this posts comments about the TT3 having OS 5.2.1 and the TT4 having OS6 is what it means in terms of release dates. OS 6 is being released to manufacturers in Oct/Nov of this year leading to the hope that OS 6 units will be available by X-mas. Instead I suspect that now it is looking like the TT3 will be the "X-mas" unit from Palm released in the late fall / early winter with OS 5.2.1 and the TT4 with OS 6 will be the "big spring" handheld in the April-May 2004 timeframe. Thoughts?

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, Tungsten T.
To Hodgen
vesther @ 7/24/2003 11:09:27 PM #
Heck, I'm going to wait until the Tungsten T4 comes out as more likely that TT will meet my needs by then--I'm just gonna jump towards the Palm OS 6.0 Bandwagon (provided that I can't Flash-Upgrade my Tungsten T any further than 5.0) because it will be worth jumping to Palm OS 6.0 because that's the next step on Handheld Operating Systems.

Otherwise, I'll just enjoy the Tungsten T until next year.

Established Consumer Palm Handheld Possessor since 2002

RE: TT3 and TT4
rcartwright @ 7/25/2003 2:26:16 PM #
Speaking as a M515 owner whose unit is Good Enough, its funny to see people saying they will wait for the T3 or now the T4. Embrace the truth established by the PC. Whatever you get will be replaced by something better, faster, cheaper a few months down the road. However, whatever you get now will be working for you now, instead of sitting on a shelf unsold.

Life is a great adventure or nothing.
RE: TT3 and TT4
Tungstenman @ 7/26/2003 3:26:49 PM #
I wont even buy a palm with a slider ever again, I have had to deal with it for almost a year now. I dont want any more. Ill wait for a tungsten C2 or a whole NEW Tungsten, with vertual graffiti, 128 MB Ram, WIFI, and maybe even 800 mhz, defenetly OS 6.0 and no stupid keyboard or slider!

I actualy here a palm like this is coming in november, TT3??
If it is the TT3, NO WAY Im buying that

A Palm in one hand is worth 2 Pocket PC Bricks
: )
-Steve

This is what the original Tungsten T should have been.

The Ugly Truth @ 7/23/2003 1:59:04 AM #
A simple update that probably took Palm's engineering department (they still have one, don't they?) about 15 minutes to come up with. Yes, strategic product placement is necessary to avoid cannibilization of sales of more lucrative models, but $400 for this is a bit optimistic on Palm's part. Whatever the market will bear, I suppose.

No doubt geeks here will complain that it doesn't have feature X, Y or Z but it has everything most non-technogeeks could need in a Palm. Too bad they can't seem to make it thinner. Palm's Vx still is the design to beat.

While I don't thint I'll ever buy another Palm that isn't a SmartPhone, if I had to recommend a Palm to a newbie, the T2 would probably be the one.

On another note, what's happened to the reviews here at Palminfocenter? "The display is stunningly is gorgeous and quite vivid. I was more than happy with the original TT screen, that is, until I had used Palm's latest transflective screen." Gushing "reviews" like this make me wonder what's up. If you need help with reviews, you should just ask. There are several people posting here that could probably help you out with well-written, balanced reviews of new hardware.

I don't think I'm the only one disappointed by the changes here either. http://www.palmstation.com/view_article.py?article=5594&flat_mode=1

RE: This is what the original Tungsten T should have been.
Sho-Bud @ 7/23/2003 4:11:51 AM #
Well, I like the review.
Every review reflects a personal opinion and I don't see anything wrong with that.
Keep them comin'.

reviews?
Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2003 7:15:02 AM #
"If you need help with reviews, you should just ask. There are several people posting here that could probably help you out with well-written, balanced reviews of new hardware."

Actually, many of the reviews on this site are submitted by volunteers from the readership! Accessories, cool apps, you name it.

Got any links to on-line reviews you've done?

- D

RE: This is what the original Tungsten T should have been.
flywheel @ 7/23/2003 1:10:20 PM #
According to the roadmap, revieled at LeInq, Palm will exclusively use Intel xScale processor in the future.

A SE P800 or even a Sony seems to be the way for me - I really-really do not like the xScale - while I love the OMAP.

Could be interesting if developers began to use the AMD Alchemy.

Live long and prosper...

CHINA for the new Tungsten T2or3

cicifan @ 7/23/2003 2:36:10 AM #
Pretty simple fact that a keyboard will never work in China with their 100+ alphabet

CIC has quite a presence in China running about 9 years in building their relationships. I wonder if their set up with Tsinghua Univ R&D and marketing plays a had in this down the road if not already

check out the history http://www.cic.com/press and look for the China news back to 1999 and also Legend and CIC and did not Legned and Palm stike up a relationship at the end of 2002?

go palm go cic

RE: CHINA for the new Tungsten T2or3
HandyMan @ 7/23/2003 4:45:27 PM #
100+ alphabet? Try 50,000+. Of course, you only need about 2000 for everyday usage. There are methods of getting input from a regular latin keyboard using Pinyin, Wubi, or one of the other entry methods. Although that's impractical on samll devices like these. Hand writing recognition is probably the best input method for Chinese. Of course, not being able to read/write Chinese myself, it's just a guess.


PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?

freefall @ 7/23/2003 2:44:45 AM #
I think, the most interesting of this update is the new PalmOS version. I wonder if this will be available for version 1 TTs, too?

Have fun,

freefall.


RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Stefanos @ 7/23/2003 3:27:42 AM #
That was the first thing that came to my mind! The TT2 has the same amount of ROM (8 MB), and therefore I would expect that the TT is upgradeable to OS 5.2.1. Now whether Palm will allow us to upgrade is a different matter... Perhaps they won't, hoping that more people will go out and get a TT2. Time will tell.
RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
freefall @ 7/23/2003 3:38:02 AM #
That would be really bad practice.

Look, we TT users are some of the most recent Palm customers. They can't really count on us buying a TT2 just to have an OS upgrade which was available for free or a rather small fee for older Palm units in the past.


RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2003 3:45:07 AM #
What features are you looking for with an "upgrade"?

To me, the main feature of OS5.2.1 is breaking the RAM limit barrier. But the T|T can't use this feature.

Some of the bundled applications are now on ROM which frees up additional RAM (a good thing!) but licensing issues might prohibit this, or at least make it a real PITA to get agreement.

Another difference is Graffiti 2 instead of "Graffiti Classic" -- which would be reason enough for me personally, to not want the upgrade.

And other than that, I can't think of anything else that is a significant difference. Anyone...?

Unless there's something I'm missing, I wouldn't expect there to be much demand for an OS upgrade.

- D

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Stefanos @ 7/23/2003 4:27:35 AM #
Well, there is Palmsource's web browser (based on Netfront) which we all wanted to ship with our T|T's - proxy-less, ARM native, etc. When that didn't happen, we expected to be able to download it from somewhere. Except that OS 5.0 does not support it: http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/palmos5/webbrowser.html

That's about the only major improvement from OS 5.0 to OS 5.2.1 I can think of, but it is a very crucial one for me.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Hodgen @ 7/23/2003 5:40:32 AM #
I have the rom of TT2.
Is there anyone who dare to use Jacksprat to flashwrite TT with the rom of TT2?
^_^

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Edward Green @ 7/23/2003 5:48:11 AM #
Surely the real issue is that Netfront based browsers (I didn't realise the Clie Netfront browser still used a proxy) need at least 5mb, but preferably more, Heap memory. At the moment I am tending to think that of 32Mb I would rather have 16Mb Heap like Sony provides rather than 16Mb application space.

Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk
RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
lweisbrod @ 7/23/2003 8:53:37 AM #
Another difference is Graffiti 2 instead of "Graffiti Classic" -- which would be reason enough for me personally, to not want the upgrade.

This is my reservation in moving up from the M515. Does anyone have any "Classic Graffiti" program/hack in the works, for those of us who don't want to change?

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 8:58:16 AM #
>>>Does anyone have any "Classic Graffiti" program/hack in the works, for those of us who don't want to change?

http://www.tealpoint.com/softscrp.htm

-- and ha! You are behind the times. PalmOS 5 *kills* hacks. Some of them will work with:

http://www.tealpoint.com/softmstr.htm

-- but don't count on the ones you Absolutely Need. I'll be losing PopUpMemo. ^%#$@#!

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
PalmAddict @ 7/23/2003 10:03:50 AM #
I myself haven't upgraded to OS5 for just the same reason, all of those hacks and OS1 apps that I will lose. As far as pop up notes, might I suggest looking at DA's instead of hacks. I use DA Launcher 5.0b6 (had to find it on Nifty's Japanese side of his site: http://makeashorterlink.com/?A23243D55) BUT I am still using OS 4.1 and haven't tested it on 5.0 yet. I do know of a OS5 only compatible DA Launcher called Power DA 1.4 for $6.95 (http://makeashorterlink.com/?K22212D55). Use this and the freeware daMemoPad from Imazeki ([Japanese Only Again] http://makeashorterlink.com/?B24215D55) and you should be in business. It appears that this da runs on the NX60/70V from Imazeki's webpage with the freeware DALauncher 5.0b6, so this is a good sign for the OS 5 users.

Good luck!

-

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." - George Gobol.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
ggeoffre @ 7/23/2003 11:46:42 AM #
I must agree that the PalmOS 5.2.1 does have some attractive features that I have been anxiously waiting for. Most noteably is the addition of SSL support for VersaMail 2.5. I would also very much like to use the updated web browser. Finaly I would expect that all of the necessary fixes and patches that were made in the T|T update would be part of ROM and would free up just a little more RAM for my own use. I would be willing to pay $29.95 for the OS upgrade, but not $399.

http://store.palm.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1157349&cp=1179762

Like others, I could live without the Graffiti upgrade. This does feel exactly like the feeling I had when the Palm Vx came out and I already had the Palm V. IMO, the T2 is too little of an upgrade in too short of a time period. I realy do enjoy my T|T and I feel that I can get quite a bit more use out of it, especially given how long I was using my Palm V! (granted I did deviate from Palm for a little while there with a Sharp Zaurus).

If I did not already have my T|T, the T2 would be _exactly_ what I would want right now. I love the T|T's form factor and all of the little improvements of the T2 address the majority of the minor gripes I do have.


RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
asiayeah @ 7/23/2003 11:53:59 AM #
Another advantage for an OS upgrade for TT is bug fixing. There are numerous bug fixes (mostly related to networking) on the 5.2.1 over 5.0.

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
asiayeah @ 7/23/2003 11:55:49 AM #
Can we all existing TT users send e-mail to their support to ask them when the OS upgrade for TT will be available?

I also want to use the Voice Memo 1.1 (which is available since Tungsten C). Currently VersaMail 2.5 requires Voice Memo 1.1 to play a wave file attachment.

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Zaphod @ 7/23/2003 12:51:12 PM #
On the topic of OSs. Does anyone know if it would be possible to upgrade a T2 to OS6 in the future? Or will I be left behind!!!!
RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 1:53:42 PM #
PalmAddict: Thanks for the advice and links. I'll try them when I have an OS5 unit.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Fernando @ 7/23/2003 2:40:58 PM #
I already sent an e-mail asking palm when they would release palm os 5.2.1 on TT and all they told me was that they don't comment on pre-released products???? and to keep checking palm;s website for if they do make the upgrade available.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Altema @ 7/23/2003 4:50:46 PM #
The primary problem will be that the US T|T only has 4Mb ROM. Yes, I know FileZ says 8, but it's wrong. I bought the OS5 version of JackFlash only to find out the truth.

Mike, PopUp Note works with TealMaster 2.15. Only problem is the list view does not work (shows blank list), but every other function is fine.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 5:54:45 PM #
Palm's own site has a comparison chart between the Tt and the TT2 and notes the TT has only 4MB of ROM, while the TT2 has 8.

And, yes, I've tried TealMaster and PopUpMemo -- but without being able to see the List View, it's not much use to me! I have -- let's see -- 1,873 Memos, so it's kind of important to me, that List View feature that's broken... why won't he update his stuff?!!?

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
asiayeah @ 7/23/2003 8:38:36 PM #
Even if the TT's ROM size is only 4MB. I think Palm should at least offer the bug fixing portions of OS 5.2.1, if not the new features of OS 5.2.1


--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Altema @ 7/23/2003 9:41:23 PM #
All those bug fixes would need to fit into 69k. That's about all that is left of the 4Mb ROM.

RE: PalmOS 5.2.1 for TT?
Tuckermaclain @ 7/24/2003 2:38:24 PM #
Forget Teal Script. When I dumped my TT and went to the Zire 71 I used Teal Script for a few weeks. It is annoyingly slow. So slow, I actually learned how to use G2. I still don't like how the "I" or "T" is drawn. I really disliked my TT (not as much as I disliked my 505) That slider was a pain, and 2 of those little screws fell out of the side after about 3 mos. I am happy with a tablet PDA, and almost as fast with G2 as G1. Move to the dark side--embrace G2.

The bubble

Lidocaineus @ 7/23/2003 3:12:05 AM #
I always thought the little Palm 'bubble' was the bluetooth radio extrusion. I can't remember where I read that, but I could easily be wrong.

RE: The bubble
Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2003 3:43:42 AM #
Uh, no it's purely decorative.

The bluetooth chip/antenna is mounted on a circuit board inside.

- D

RE: The bubble
WileyCoyote @ 7/23/2003 6:38:03 AM #
I wouldn't say it is "puely decorative" or "it serves no purpose" The T/T3 pictures that were leaked had no palm logo but in that spot was an indentation holding a screw that held the case or something underneath in place. So it covers a screw in that place.

RE: The bubble
Altema @ 7/23/2003 4:57:30 PM #
Yes, it covers a screw. However, its rubbery design also provides a grip when pulling it out of your pocket... especially a shirt pocket.

Good, but can be better...

thomasho @ 7/23/2003 4:02:15 AM #
This is a nice upgrade. But since Graffiti 2 is in, Palm should make the original Graffiti area "usabele". That is, to have 320x480 screen resolution. With Graffiti 2 here, I don't see the need for the Graffiti area, as well as the slider design. Otherwise, just create a slimmer device w/o the slider.

RE: Good, but can be better...
antikryst @ 7/23/2003 5:13:49 AM #
why does everyone seem to think that getting rin of the slider=slimmer design??? i think the only use for the slider now is accessing the silkscreen buttons on the t2. keep it closed by all means if you dont want to use the slider but getting rin of it wont give us a slimmer design. its a little bit thicker than normal since we all know it is also smaller (when closed).

when the t3 comes out (if its true) id still go for the slider since it means its going to be compact when you just need to look something up.

a bigger screen with vg is possible..maybe with the zire 71s form factor. but how the hell do we get high res screen, slimmer design, and no slider!!!

the vx form factor with vg would be perfect..but think about battery life and since now palm has colored screens and more ram...it might not even be possible..at least not now.



RE: Good, but can be better...
indesman @ 7/23/2003 1:12:33 PM #
Since the slider mechanism is a mechanical device with six points of contact it takes up space. Think about it, you have more than double the case thickness on the back to create the rigid panel for the universal connector. I think it's great to have multiple form factors but it would be nice if you didn't have to drop back to the Z71 or switch to Sony to get the traditional design.

RE: Good, but can be better...
hotpaw4 @ 7/23/2003 1:52:13 PM #
The thickness of the TT seems to be determined by all the stuff on the top of the device (IR, card slot and a nice big stylus slot under the display), not the bottom. Thus getting rid of the slider would only cause the buttons to become too tiny or the stylus to become a toothpick. For that, we already have Sony Clie's.
RE: Good, but can be better...
Altema @ 7/23/2003 5:01:38 PM #
Ouch!

Thickness from IR, card slot and stylus?
Marshall Flinkman @ 7/23/2003 5:51:43 PM #
I disagree. Why do those things need to be that thick for the TT when the m500/m505/m515 and the Treo 90 have all of them at the top?

My guess is that it's either the slider, the battery, or both that make the TT/TT2 that thick.

I'm sure someone's taken one apart and posted pictures... that should settle it.



RE: Good, but can be better...
Altema @ 7/23/2003 8:22:02 PM #
The slider is the thickest part. The main body of the T|T is only slightly thicker than the M505, probably due to a speaker the same diameter as the nav pad and the stylus being internal instead of hanging off the side. The T|T is smaller in every other dimension.

The slider had to be designed to go over the main body, then it had to be thick enough to house some very good keyswitches, then there is a backing plate to support the switches and buttons, then there has to be lateral support so the cover does not flex every time you use the buttons. Otherwise you would have marks and scratches from the inside of the slider contacting the screen.

Technically, they could have made the slider a little thinner and obtained the design objectives, but I think they made it thicker at the bottom to let you hold onto the device better... something that gamers appreciate. Not only has the T|T been the best productivity device for me yet, it's been the best for games mostly due to the generous real estate around great buttons and the easy to hold slider.

RE: Thickness from IR, card slot and stylus?
jabello @ 7/23/2003 11:41:59 PM #
Hi everyone.

I disassembled my TT to find out what the big buzz is about, but didn't take any pictures, maybe next time.

Actually the TT's (and shurely the TT2) "thickness" come from the screen, battery and main board, the main board is very small, amazing, it only occupies the half upper part of the screen space and has only 3 noticeable ICs (the smallest board I have seen, compared against the PEG-T415 and the Palm IIIe ones), and the other bottom half is occuped by the battery, it is as thick as 0.5 centimeters aprox, BTW Samsung made. The screen board is separated from the main board and it has connectors on one side and ICs on the other, that makes the TT a little bit fat. Also notice that the screen is somehow sunken on the case, not like the Zire 71 screen.

I didn't find any separate bluetooth board or antenna.

Since this post should be about the TT2 and not about taking the TT apart, I cant't publish the instructions here, but if someone could guide me to the right forum to post them I will gladly share.

Promise to take some pictures of the TT's internals soon.

RE: Thickness from IR, card slot and stylus?
jabello @ 7/24/2003 12:37:37 AM #
Hi everyone.

Also forgot to mention (the Altema reply notices it perfectly, thanks) that the buttons on the slider also contribute to make the TT fatter. To sum up, the back plane of the slider, + main board + screen + front side of the slider (buttons included) makes the TT as fat as it is, but I have to state that it is perfect for me, gives a good grip, not like the filmsy Clié PEG-T series.

Pictures comming up in a few days I hope...

Graffiti Classic??

Palm_Otaku @ 7/23/2003 4:04:01 AM #
"There are a variety of third party solutions that allow you to customize the characters or use the old Graffiti system."

Aside from TealScript, what other options are available?

Is there a "system extension" that enables true Graffiti Classic?

- D

RE: Graffiti Classic??
Quickster @ 7/23/2003 8:57:36 AM #
I to am looking for an alternative to Graffiti2 on my wife's Zire 71. Graffiti2 is so lame and defeats the real purpose of uni-stroke character entry.
The Palm OS answer to the dilema with shortcuts is to not use those characters. Duh!

RE: Graffiti Classic??
statik @ 7/23/2003 9:32:26 AM #
I've actually become addicted to the write-on-screen aspect of graphitti 2. The biggest trick is to leave it turned on by default, and when you need to toggle it on/off, click on the shift indicator on your screen.

All the people complaining about Graphitti 2 should give it a try before they get up in arms. There are only three letters that you need to re-learn.

RE: Graffiti Classic??
whitemiata @ 7/23/2003 9:36:11 AM #
I don't get the purpose of the questions.

With TealScript and an hour of your time (provided you're a proficient Graffiti user) you can recreate graffiti Classic .... with BONUSES (I created my own extra stokes to automagically write common words like The For And ...

Tealscript is fantastic, it works wonderfully, and with WPM on my Z71 I'm now back to 31WPM as I used to do with Graffiti Classic on my Vx.

So where is the problem?

Alessandro

RE: Graffiti Classic??
Spell @ 7/23/2003 9:38:19 AM #
As discussed in the Writing on Your Palm review of the Zire71 (I'm still confused why *this* site hasn't reviewed that model), http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column030505.htm , TealScript is the suggested solution to the Graffiti2 issue (for those who have issues with it) -- OS 5 doesn't support hacks; litigation makes Graffiti1 a big no-no for Palm; such is life.

RE: Graffiti Classic??
ggeoffre @ 7/23/2003 12:05:56 PM #
When I tried training a Sharp Zaurus to 'learn' Palm's Graffiti (or should I say Xerox's Graffiti), I noticed that the amount of memory (storage space) that was required to 'remember' my keystrokes was enormous! Wouldn't this also be the case for TealScript?
RE: Graffiti Classic??
helf @ 7/23/2003 10:39:43 PM #
bah. Xerox's crap barely resembles palms graffiti..

RE: Graffiti Classic??
Palm_Otaku @ 7/25/2003 4:23:14 AM #
For those that are happy with G2 or TealScript -- all the more power to you!

But my question was whether there was another solution.

G2 (aka "Jot Lite") is ~OK but it isn't just a few different strokes - the "extended character set" is kinda screwy now, so it's a long learning curve to get fully proficient. And I use more than one device, so having to remember which device likes which variation is a real turn-off. G2? No thanks.

And I'm not really happy with the performance hit of TealScript -- using this on top of "Jot Lite" seems like a real kludge...

So. If anyone knows of another, more elegant solution PLEASE let the community know.

Cheers,

Dan

Good ol Palm

Strider_mt2k @ 7/23/2003 6:00:12 AM #
The company that feels the need to "freshen" designs instead of innovating new ones.
Or should I say getting the ones they have right the first time?

Sorry m505 owners...
Sorry T1 owners...
Sorry Zire 71 owners, we'll "freshen " you next.
But here's 50 updates to fill up your memory in the meantime...

Dripping with venom? -Perhaps.
The truth? -Closer than you think.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theroboticsclub/

RE: Good ol Palm
sandbuck @ 7/23/2003 6:38:57 AM #
Are you part of the robotics club or the recursive whiners club?

RE: Good ol Palm
Strider_mt2k @ 7/23/2003 6:45:16 AM #
I left out the owners of the entire m100 series!
Sorry!
:(

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theroboticsclub/
RE: Good ol Palm
Strider_mt2k @ 7/23/2003 6:46:50 AM #
Both actually.
Hey everyone gets a chance to whine, right? ;)


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theroboticsclub/

RE: Good ol Palm
jgordner @ 7/23/2003 10:02:15 AM #
So you'd be happier if they didn't release upgrades?

The Zire71 is a good machine. Who cares if they release an upgrade later. Current Z71 owners won't be in a worse position once the Z72 comes out than the are now. It's not Palm's fault that some people have a compulsive need to own the latest and greatest.


Jon

RE: Good ol Palm
Altema @ 7/23/2003 5:28:42 PM #
"I left out the owners of the entire m100 series!
Sorry!"

Yeah, like anyone here would buy an M100 now... you just spoiled the whole sales push for the new M100 Martha Stewart Edition.

RE: Good ol Palm
Bioco @ 7/23/2003 10:01:33 PM #
I think that one was DELAYED until MARTHA does ger jail time.

Bitching and Moaning

acquiessense @ 7/23/2003 6:20:48 AM #
Well i for one am very impressed with Palm, after dropping the price of the T|T over here afew months back (probably to clear the inventorys ready for the T|T2) they have now launched the T|T2 at the same price the T|T was last on sale for.

Now i fully expected a price hike when the T|T was launched, palm to their credit havn't done this, it's not a brand new model, just like every other copmany in the world does. Whenever you buy technology you do it knowing that within days/weeks/months that it will become obsolete and start showing it's age. So let's be thankful that palm are continually reviewing their models and range, and thank god that there is stll an alternative to Pocket PC.

Bill Gates buys Tungsten T/2

JonathanChoo @ 7/23/2003 6:58:09 AM #
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5717

In an unusual twist, a portion of a $7.5 million grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation will go to purchase 1,100 Palm Tungsten T2 handhelds for superintendents and principals in public and private K-12 schools in New York.

RE: Bill Gates buys Tungsten T/2
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 8:00:34 AM #
I love it! That is great.

Twist in the wind, Ba'al Gates!

RE: Bill Gates buys Tungsten T/2
ac @ 7/23/2003 10:41:08 AM #
Hahaha! He is going against his PPC OS!
RE: Bill Gates buys Tungsten T/2
JonAcheson @ 7/23/2003 12:15:44 PM #
Actually, I'd say this is to his credit.

If Gates had pulled the funding just because they didn't buy his company's handhelds, I'd have said he was being arrogant.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Bill Gates buys Tungsten T/2
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 1:55:43 PM #
He deserves no credit. He doesn't sit there and line-item grants. All that is handled by others. I'm sure he's as surprised as everyone else by the news -- except he's not delighted as we are. Ha!

good review

palmcoder @ 7/23/2003 8:59:22 AM #
Thanks for the informative review!

As a Zire 71 owner, I was pleased to discover the quick lookup feature that's been integrated into the phone book. Before this review, I did not know it existed. Now, I can quickly jump to a specific entry using just the D-pad. Cool!

Virtual Grafitti

4s @ 7/23/2003 10:14:51 AM #
Someone had to say this, so I will. I am not going to lambast Palm for not including VG. However, I really think it is a cool feature because I love a big screen.

What I am asking is this: Given that we have seen pics of a rumored T3 with VG and now have seen an announcement of the T2 with no VG, what are the odds of a VG (soft-grafitti, whatever) enabled Palm anytime soon?

What say you?

<><

RE: Virtual Grafitti
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 1:57:14 PM #
I believe the guy who timed Palm leaks to Palm releases. A time period of just SEVEN WEEKS.

I say TT3 in September.

Or Palm SG is in biiiig trouble.

RE: Virtual Grafitti
Tungsten @ 7/23/2003 2:11:18 PM #
Going by the fact that T1 was launched 8-9 months ago, I'd expect the T3 by April 2004.

RE: Virtual Grafitti
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 2:20:16 PM #
What, you're counting from the intro of the TT2? Who says Palm can't shorten intro cycles? Who says Palm can only intro *1* model into a market segment every 8 months?

I stick with September. OK, I'll give you part of October too.

April would be suicidal.

RE: Virtual Grafitti
HiWire @ 7/23/2003 3:27:02 PM #
I doubt the T3 is a big priority... so most likely next year. I'm guessing the "regular" PDA is probably out of fashion at Palm now, since everybody talks about "Wireless" as the next big thing - regardless of how useful the average consumer would find it.

I'm all in favour of the Tungsten T-series design, but wouldn't mind what people have already mentioned:

Slimmer and lighter
More memory
Longer battery life
Virtual Graffiti with a 320x480 screen
Lower price (yeah,right!)

I doubt anything would convince me to upgrade for a while yet, though. All of these new Palm devices don't argue for a replacement of my m505 - since I still prefer the functionality of the regular Palm apps to any fancy multimedia stuff for now.

If anyone at Palm is listening, the screen and size of the device are probably the biggest "draw" for your average consumer. Is it light and slim? Does the picture look good? That is probably the first thing a person notices.

Also, I would like to congratulate Palm on the build quality of their devices - they never seem cheap or easily breakable, unlike some Sony and PocketPC stuff.

Palm m505 User

RE: Virtual Grafitti
palmhiker @ 7/23/2003 4:31:03 PM #
"I doubt the T3 is a big priority... so most likely next year."

I disagree. The pictures of the T3 look like a fairly advanced prototype or pre-production unit. My guess is we will see these in time for Christmas, likely along with an updated Z71. The big question is will it have OS6 or OS5x on it?

RE: Virtual Grafitti
Altema @ 7/23/2003 5:20:03 PM #
"April would be suicidal"

Instead of beating everyone to the punch with a near-perfect device, they would be an also-ran by next April.


Palm's Death March (again!)
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 6:00:45 PM #
You think Sony will wait until next April to do an all-in-one 320x480 device? Ha!

And do you think the hp 2215 will remain at $399 for the rest of the year?

There is hellish competition out there. If no TT3 by the end of October, layoffs at Palm in December.

Audio Upgrade?

ggeoffre @ 7/23/2003 12:00:42 PM #
Does anyone know if the audio circuitry has been upgraded? Specifically the onboard amp that the headphones plug into. I realize that the processor and the software may not have changed, but they could have popped in a higher quality amplifier to improve the audio quality.

RE: Audio Upgrade?
Altema @ 7/23/2003 5:12:28 PM #
No word on the audio amp circuity yet, but the problem with the T|T1 hardware was with the output volume and not the quality. The frequency response capabilities of the hardware is CD quality... despite the software problems they had which was addressed with patches.

RE: Audio Upgrade?
Altema @ 7/23/2003 5:24:52 PM #
PS: Boy, not watching my structure today. Replace that last 'was' with 'were'.

RE: Audio Upgrade?
Edward Green @ 7/24/2003 7:36:19 AM #
I am sure I read that the volume is higher on the new model, but on the old one using decent headphones with the right impedence solved that problem.

Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

Rethinking

tpipher @ 7/23/2003 12:26:38 PM #
Seems like Palm just might be getting their head out of their A**! I was beginning to think only Sony was going to do anything inventive. However I am now re-thinking my opinion!

Slider and password

lamp @ 7/23/2003 1:27:33 PM #
I'm tempted to upgrade my m505 to the T2. I normally configure my m505 to autolock after 30 minutes of inactivity. With the T2 (and T1), it would seem that I would need to open the slider just to enter my password in the graffiti area.

Has this been a hindrance to anyone? If so, I'll have to consider the T|C or Zire 71.


RE: Slider and password
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 1:59:05 PM #
When you use your m505, don't you have to lift the flap to use the Graffiti area -- or *any part* of the m505 at all? (Well, except for extracting the stylus, you legalistic nitpickers!)

RE: Slider and password
lamp @ 7/23/2003 2:30:42 PM #
I've removed the cover long ago. The m505 sits in my pocket "naked" but hey, when someone asks me for a phone number, I'm quicker on the draw ;-)

I've also learned to enter my password with my fingernail, so it saves me time reaching for the stylus.

Again, any Tungsten T users find themselves a little slow on the draw? Or is this no big deal?


RE: Slider and password
HiWire @ 7/23/2003 3:23:27 PM #
I tried carrying my m505 naked... but now I've noticed a lot of dust in the screen :-( So I'm going back to my Rhinoskin case, where at least it feels safer.

If you're worried about encryption or ease of use I can suggest PDADefense - you can set up your buttons (Date Book, Address Book, To Do, Notepad etc.) to enter a code instead of using the stylus.

An excellent product from a great group of people.

Palm m505 User

RE: Slider and password
lamp @ 7/23/2003 4:43:06 PM #
I took a pair of scissors to the original cover, leaving only the hinge. I leave this hinge in the m505 left slot and it keeps out some of the dust.

But yeah, unprotected, the device does suffer a bit. That's partly why I'm considering an upgrade.

RE: Slider and password
FIC83146 @ 7/23/2003 5:01:27 PM #
When you buy your T|T, simply install Graffiti Anywhere(free app)and you'll be able to enter your password without opening the slider.
RE: Slider and password
Altema @ 7/23/2003 5:07:31 PM #
"With the T2 (and T1), it would seem that I would need to open the slider just to enter my password in the graffiti area."

No, you do not need to open the slider. They added a "Keyboard" button to the unlock screen which pops open the on-screen keyboard.

RE: Slider and password
helf @ 7/23/2003 5:08:27 PM #
Why would you need to password protect your palm anyways?

RE: Slider and password
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 6:04:15 PM #
>>Why would you need to password protect your palm anyways?

Nosy relatives, for one. (Oops! Did *I* say that?)

RE: Slider and password
Altema @ 7/23/2003 6:22:25 PM #
Yes you did say that... I'm telling your aunt Bruce!

RE: Slider and password
Altema @ 7/23/2003 6:23:47 PM #
"Again, any Tungsten T users find themselves a little slow on the draw? Or is this no big deal?"

Only at first until you learn that you don't even have to use the graffiti OR stylus when looking up addresses.

RE: Slider and password
RSC @ 7/23/2003 8:29:58 PM #
I think there are a few hacks (like 'EasyLock'?) that let you create some custom button press patterns (e.g. Press Datebook button-then-ToDoList button) to unlock the palm instead of entering a written password

RE: Slider and password
Bumbleluck @ 7/24/2003 10:44:25 AM #
Alas,

This seems to be missed in so many comments..... Palm OS 5.2.1 and above are Graffiti 2 based. This is basically JOT by CIC. It allows for on-screen graffiti. No Virtual Graffiti, you just write on the screen and it acts like the silkscreen. You don't need to load any extra apps.

However, on the T|T(1) you do need an extra program or two.

On the T|T(1) I would suggest looking at Slide Free, but I feel qlaunch is a better product. Both have trial versions. So does JOT if you want to see what Graffiti 2 is like.

Unfortunately, Palm did not include the updated system sound

Carlis @ 7/23/2003 2:07:42 PM #
What is this update on the Zire 71 ??

Regards Carlis.

Have to talk to a Merchant about this

vesther @ 7/23/2003 5:50:41 PM #
With 29MB of Useable On-Handheld Memory, it looks like I'm going to have to have a discussion with the one that I purchased my handheld with because by "trading" my old Tungsten T with a Tungsten T2, I'm going to have to surrender everything Tungsten T in favor of the Tungsten T2.

Anyway, I have to talk to the merchant that I purchased my Tungsten T regarding about the Tungsten T2.

Established Consumer Palm Handheld Possessor since 2002

Talked to the Merchant.....
vesther @ 7/23/2003 7:05:52 PM #
The Merchant recommends me to wait until next year before "sending another $400 down the drain". He told me to wait until next year when the Tungsten T3 (or Tungsten T4) as well as Palm OS 6.0 materializes. Any recommendations?

Established Consumer Palm Handheld Possessor since 2002
RE: Have to talk to a Merchant about this
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 7:23:38 PM #
You already have a TT. Enjoy it. There is no reason for any TT owner to get a TT2. A TT3, yes -- but not a TT2.

RE: Have to talk to a Merchant about this
Altema @ 7/23/2003 10:01:28 PM #
"Enjoy it. There is no reason for any TT owner to get a TT2. A TT3, yes -- but not a TT2."

I would if I get impatient. The only thing I REALLY need right now is RAM. The new Navigator map files are huge!

Hell, I'll just wait until next Late April/Early May
vesther @ 7/23/2003 11:53:10 PM #
Hopefully, there will be a Tungsten T4 with Palm OS 6.0. Remember that we will be seeing Palm OS 6.0 sometime next year, so it's possible that there will be a Tungsten T (hence Tungsten T4) that will implement Palm OS 6.0 in addition to Sun's J2ME and all the features that gave the Tungsten T its name.

Hopefully, an Intel X-Scale Processor, ATI Video Technology, and AT LEAST 64MB On-Handheld RAM should be inside. IMO T4 probably going to have a 320x480 TFT High-Res Plus Screen (if not, True Res Plus Screen of 1280x1920 might be possible, if technology permits).

Well, I'm just gonna wait until Palm OS 6.0 comes out on the market, then I'm going to do Palm Tungsten T Version 6.0 (Hence TT4). IMO Waiting for Palm OS 6.0 will be a much better value than a Tungsten T2, which is just a "bug fix" to the Tungsten T.

As I should say, "5.2.1 Update for Tungsten T!!! 5.2.1 Update for Tungsten T!!!"

Established Consumer Palm Handheld Possessor since 2002

Paint It Black!

mikecane @ 7/23/2003 6:05:45 PM #
Palm SG! I can't stand it!

I look at that Sony CLIE NX 73 and that matte black finish is just *gorgeous* and makes the screen really stand out!

Make me a black TT2!

And *especially* a black TT3!

I am sick of silver! (Maybe that should be a PIC Poll: "Are You Sick To Death of Silver PDA Coloring?")

RE: Paint It Black!
Altema @ 7/23/2003 6:16:51 PM #
I kind of liked the gunmetal color of the T|T, but black would be cool.

RE: Paint It Black!
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 6:45:40 PM #
Check out that NX 73. That screen really stands out against the black. Especially when you have it next to the silvery NX80.

I am sick of silver and beige. And I'm not too fond of the toyish grey on the Tungs W & C.

And the Z71 blue ... eh. Family-oriented, s'okay.

Gimme a black TT2 and TT3.

RE: Paint It Black!
HiWire @ 7/23/2003 8:16:50 PM #
Yeah the gunmetal was cool. We could definitely use the colour change, but it comes down to cost. It's in Palm's best interest to offer a neutral colour that offends the least people. But you can ask them for a "Special Edition" version - Palm has obviously responded to this question in the past.

Palm m505 User
RE: Paint It Black!
hkklife @ 7/23/2003 9:34:04 PM #
I fondly remember the old IBM workpads-especially the Workpad version of the Palm V. It was a stealth black that was just beautiful to look at. The last time I saw any sign of them was when www.compgeeks.com was blowing them out for like $100 or so a year ago. A friend of mine used to be a sales rep for IBM and I was sooo jealous of his black Palm III-equivalent Workpad and then his Vx equivalent.

On a related note, my personal favorite Palm of all time (looks-wise) was the old IIIe SE, with the clear casing. The optional day-glo color screen protector flaps just completed the package. For a few months back in '98/99 or so, that IIIe SE was *really* trendy in a late 90s, .com hoopla, iMac, fruity see-thru kind of way ;-)



RE: Paint It Black!
Altema @ 7/23/2003 10:06:04 PM #
You can still get clear replacement cases for the III series from www.gethightech.com

The coolest aftermarket cases were the solid aluminum cases for the IIIc. It was almost enough to make me keep my IIIc a while longer. The desire for expansion moved me on to the M505.

I wonder if painting the T|T case would gum up the teflon guides?...

RE: Paint It Black!
tlovey @ 7/24/2003 5:08:35 AM #
I agree completely - black or rather Titanium dark would look "deadly cool" on Tungsten - check out some new Nokias... I'd opt for one against the silver one any time.

May your Palm be with you...
RE: Paint It Black!
radleyp @ 7/24/2003 1:15:25 PM #
Yes, black is nice, but let me see the unit first. I remember how enthusiastic you were about the N73, but one look at it - color or no - and I knew it was something to forget. I use pockets, and a sine qua non of any PDA is that it fit there comfortably. I do not want clamshells (I hate having to open the device to use it) or small keyboards (so the new CLUX is of no interest). If the T2 is as good as PIC makes it sound, I may replace my aging 615. radleyp

"I say it's photoshopped and I'm an expert!"

RAMdŽd @ 7/23/2003 10:11:13 PM #
God, those guys crack me up!

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

too expensive

73939133 @ 7/24/2003 7:33:31 AM #
Consider getting a Sony TG50 instead: it's cheaper and comes with more software.


RE: too expensive
Bioco @ 7/24/2003 4:36:03 PM #
You do notice how cheap the T50 is by looking at it screen. Iwas going to buy it until I see it. Put a screen like the ZIRE71's in it keep the price and give me more ram and I'll buy 2. I don't mind the keboard.

Updated Feature/Price Comparison Chart???

kisrael @ 7/24/2003 12:20:09 PM #
On the web, is there an updated table for PalmOS (Palm, Sony etc) features? All I care about are

-screen resolution
-memory (don't care that much)
-wireless connectivity
-gadgets

And/or could someone tell me, which models have a camera, which have a voice recorder, and what's the cheapest that has both?

The Perfect Palm

rchristopher @ 7/24/2003 12:57:54 PM #
Anyone else out there wish Palm would come out with a device that combines the feature set of the TT2 with the power of the Tungsten C? This "upgrade" is hardly more than cosmetic. Just dropping in a 400Mhz XScale would have gotten me to pony up the coin for it, but no we're still stuck with a lame 144 OMAP from TI. When will Palm understand that they need more horsepower if they want to keep the likes of HP & now Dell at bay, to say nothing of the Sony's awesome ne CLIEs? My perfect Palm:
400Mhz processor-minimum
IrDA 1.2, Bluetooth 1.2, 802.11b
USB 2.0 and/or FireWire 800 Hotsync
320 x 480 65k Transflexive screen
128MB RAM
OS 5.2.1
2 SD Card slots
Seperate graphics engine
What do you think?
RE: The Perfect Palm
mlapman @ 7/24/2003 2:39:57 PM #
I agree but under the Clie brand name; the craftmanship of the Sony Clies seems to be much better, compared to Palm, don't take me wrong I have owned both Palm and Sonys, after using a T615 I went back to a Palm TT and it just feels like an expensive toy..

RE: The Perfect Palm
Altema @ 7/24/2003 7:54:25 PM #
"we're still stuck with a lame 144 OMAP from TI. When will Palm understand that they need more horsepower if they want to keep the likes of HP & now Dell at bay"

There's a few things to keep in mind here:
1. Mhz=Performance is a false formula.
2. In direct comparison between a 175Mhz OMAP and a 400Mxz XScale using same OS and applications, the TI cleaned the Intel's clock. The comparison was not even close... the "faster" XScale got stomped.
3. I work directly with PPC owners who are a little confused right now. How come a 300Mhz device takes a few seconds for the same tasks that a 144Mhz device does instantly? If we graded the performance of cars only on maximum engine RPM, with no regard for horsepower or torque or gearing, we would be in the same quandry: An Acura Legend would obviously be the dragstrip champion against a '69 Hemi Dart because its engine can reach a higher RPM...

The TI OMAP may or may not be many things, but it is certainly not lame.

RE: The Perfect Palm
hotpaw4 @ 7/24/2003 8:50:29 PM #
A faster CPU (in equivalent IC technology) is also harder on the battery life. I prefer decent battery life, which the TT2 seems to barely provide.

Battery life, TT vs. T2

mklein @ 7/24/2003 2:16:37 PM #
Ran a test of the Tungsten T vs. Tungsten T2 to compare battery life. Made sure each unit was 100% charged, set both to "full" brightness and played MP3's using AeroPlayer 2.6.5. Remaining battery life after 30 minutes:

Tungsten T: 81%
Tungsten T2: 87%

So the T2 battery seems to hold up pretty well, even with more RAM and a brighter display.

To give you some idea of the difference in screen brightness, the Tungsten T with the brightness turned up to halfway is about the same as the T2 with brightness at its lowest setting.

RE: Battery life, TT vs. T2
Palm_Otaku @ 7/25/2003 4:38:51 AM #
Hey - very interesting - thanks!

During your test, were the brigtness settings on full for both devices, or ??

- D

BUG Grafitti/Notepad

QDeath @ 7/24/2003 3:49:09 PM #
If in the prefs you allow Grafitti to be written anywhere, if you goto Notepad, the notepad does not work, you cannot draw on the screen. The Palm thinks you are writing grafitti not a note in the notebook.

Is there a way to get the notepad functionality back without going to the prefs each time? Seems buggy if you can't any ideas on how to do this?


RE: BUG Grafitti/Notepad
mklein @ 7/24/2003 4:05:41 PM #
Uncheck the little blue box in the lower right-hand corner of the screen. This will allow you to write on the screen.

RE: BUG Grafitti/Notepad
QDeath @ 7/24/2003 6:52:43 PM #
What about in dictionary apps etc. where you have to write on the screen?

Bluetooth & TT2

duke mobile @ 7/24/2003 8:42:50 PM #
I use a T68i and Jabra BT headphone set. I am happy that I can now dial from my PDA and the Jabra picks up the call with no problems. The TT would not release its connection to my phone quick enough to allow this.

Duke

I've got a smaller one than you!

bdholmes @ 7/25/2003 3:29:40 PM #
A PDA is useless if you don't have it with you because you don't want a weight/bulge in your pocket, or after the battery has run out. PDAs spend more of their time being carried around than laptops (if yours doesn't why didn't you buy a laptop instead?), so why are PDAs becoming more laptop sized (have you seen the new Sonys!) and their battery life shorter? I have a Palm Vx, and unfortunately whatever I upgrade to (TT2 included), I have to compromise on size and battery. Why?

Gimmicks, that's why. It seems all manufacturers have become blinkered into adding useless gimmicks at the expense of size and battery life. Stereo speakers, cameras, fingerprint recognition, colour screens, 802.11b, ###mhz cpus: I don't want any of it if I have to pay for it with a bloated power-hungry machine. Give me a monochrome screen that I can see fine in any light without a backlight, and battery life measured in weeks not hours. I don't want to worry about losing my data because I forgot or didn't have time to charge my PDA last night.

The following are killer apps on a PDA IMO:
PIM (contacts, calendar, memos, etc)
Text web-browsing,
Password keeping,
Bluetooth,
Email,
MP3 playing.

Offer me a Vx with MP3 and bluetooth and I'll bite your hand off. I don't care what speed the processor is, the Vx is 33Mhz and I never have any performance gripes. 802.11b is too power-hungry for a PDA.
Bluetooth was designed for small, low-power devices and works well as such. If I'm at home or in the office, I'll use a PC for web-browsing, if I'm on the move, a bluetooth connected mobile. There's little need for 802.11b on a PDA.

Can't Palm release a good PDA, just for old-times sake for us serious PDA users instead of trying to catch PocketPCs in the useless-gimmicks race? If you PDA makers are reading this, please remember that there are some of us out there that still want Pocket Digital Assistants, not toys for boys. Maybe there's space for a new entrant to the market (IBM?).

Brendan

RE: I've got a smaller one than you!
HiWire @ 7/25/2003 9:40:08 PM #
Just be glad they're not putting cooling fans into our PDA's yet... I hate the bulge my m505 makes in my pocket with the Rhinoskin armour, but I'd rather have it on me... "You can never be too thin or too rich in America"

Palm m505 User
RE: I've got a smaller one than you!
Ces @ 7/26/2003 10:05:30 AM #
Had a Vx, changed to a T/T. Believe it or not, the T/T feels smaller & more confortable in your pocket than a Vx. It even helps you not to drop it when you bend down to tie your shoelaces, etc. Do the test!

RE: I've got a smaller one than you!
simscitizen @ 8/8/2003 10:15:10 PM #
Wow. Palm has a model for you. It's called the Zire. It's lighter than your Vx, and what's more, you can eBay your Vx, buy a Zire for $40, and have enough for 8 movies too! How's THAT for entertainment?

RE: I've got a smaller one than you!
helf @ 8/8/2003 11:24:36 PM #
dude,,teh vx is 26mhz..not 33..

T2. Top otch PDA. Unsticked stickers.

Jacques T @ 7/26/2003 10:14:35 AM #
I own a T1. I resisted buying the T2 for a whole 48 hours. LOL. I bought mine last night and am very satisfied with the new screen and 32MB. I might sell my T1 to partially finance the somehwat hefty 599$CDN for the T2.

I have to say something... I left FutureShop somewhat upset by the fact that all the Tungsten boxes are not sealed and seemed to have been opened. The saleman told me that is how Palm ships them and that everyone complains about it. The same problem existed with the Tungsten 1 boxes. Palm should look into using stronger boxes sealing stickers. I would like to know if you guys have noticed this same issue. TIA.



So far the best Palm (especially with a SonyEricsson t610)

elc @ 8/5/2003 9:04:21 PM #
After using the T2 for a couple of days, I have decided that it worths a few minutes of my time to write about my views. It is great! I would call it the 3rd generation Palm. The third model that I'm really impressed. (1st: US Robotics Pilot 5000, 2nd: Palm Vx, 3rd Tungsten T2).

Point to note: I have been using Palm for 7+ years extensively.

I got pulled away by Sony after Palm Vx, for 2 Sony models, simply because 3Com just couldn't produce another model to match the finesse of Vx. I was disappointed by Sony also. My requirements are very straightforward: 1. Very small, 2. Good screen, 3. Scalable, 4. Graffti and 5. Good battery life. The very first Pilot seven years ago, and Palm Vx got all these requirements, but not scalable. CE is simply fundamentally inferior and clumbersome as an "on the go" OS. With technology advancement, I got greedy, I also want 6. Bluetooth and 7. mp3 playback.

I was very much tempted to get the TT earlier, but the screen is simply too poor. It also didn't have a seemless setup for mp3 playback and Bluetooth. Finally, Palm got it right and a little bit more.

1. Form factor
Very compact, and feel solid in your palm. Slider seems less tight as TT, which made it easier to open and close. A bit on the heavy side though.

2. Screen
Great screen. Very fine pixels and bright. It matches, if not better than, the Sony ones. It is even too bright if you set it at the brightest level indoors.

3. Scalability
32MB built-in and a SD slot, what else do you need. It is not like a memory hog - CE.

4. Graffti
Good that it is not a thumb pad like Tungsten C or W. Recognition is Okay. Unfortunately, I'm an old dog who prefers Graffti 1, not Graffti 2. If someone can tell me how to downgrade from Graffti 2 to 1, that would be great. It is good that you could do the Graffti on Screen, not only at the Graffti area. Practically, you never need to open the slider.

5. Battery Life
One charge seems to last for 3 days with heavy usage including some mp3 playing. That's pretty good for such a bright screen.

6. Bluetooth
The BT integration is far better than T1. It took me 5 minutes to set everything up with the T610. When I picked the location where I'm at, I could even select my local GPRS provider. It was so easy. Once trusted, immediately, I got SMS, POP3, Web Browsing, Phone dialing straigtht from the T2.

7. mp3 playback
The quality is very good. Even the built-in mono speaker is not bad. The Built-in RealOne mp3 player let you play in the background, true multi-tasking. The built-in video converter is better than the one from Sony. Although the conversion (or rendering) on the desktop is slow, I didn't get the error like the one I got from Sony. Video playback is very smooth. VoiceRecorder is nice, but I don't think I will ever use it.

In short, it is a solid production machine. Instead of waiting for the T3 for another 3-4 months just for the virtual Graffti area, just get the T2.

Issues:
- The build-in hot-sync software is very slow for copying files from desktop to the SD card. Better off getting a card reader for files copying.
- I had to cold reset it once while I was multi-tasking with some Bluetooth function in progress. It happened only once, hopefully not again.
- Graffti 2's 2 strokes letters like "t", "i" and the punctuations. It is just not as slick as the always one stroke (not counting letter "x") Graffti 1.

Advice on T2

kurdt @ 8/8/2003 8:59:11 PM #
I am planning to buy T2, so far I think T2 is best suited for me as of now. But I have some concerns, which I think anyone here can help me out. I have a friend who has TT and I compare the screen with the sony SJ30 which I think the SJ30 has the lead. Another thing is its processor. T2 is running at 144mhz while the other sony handheld are at 200mhz. Are there any problems with 144mhz if I will be doing a lot of listening to mp3 while reading editing some documents as well as performing search?

Right now T2 here in our country is currently sold with free essential kit. I wonder why a new product such as T2 is now being sold with promo? Is it because T3 is expecting to be out soon? If T3 is to be out soon what do you think will be the price?

Should I buy now? or wait?

Thanks

RE: Advice on T2
Altema @ 8/8/2003 11:00:18 PM #
The T2 has a different screen than the original T1. The new screen on the T2, like the screen on the Z71 and T|C, has been called the best screen on ANY PDA, period. In my own opinion, I love the new screen, but the old screen is better outdoors. This will not be important unless you have the habit of reading books in the sunlight.

Regarding the processor, the Sony uses the Intel PXA-250 XScale chip clocked at 200Mhz. If all you do is look at the Mhz, this can be misleading. The T2 is actually a dual processor device, with a 144Mhz TI OMAP processor, working together with a 200Mhz DSP. The original T1 with this dual processor benchmarks at about 366Mhz. The T2 has been optimized and runs a little faster than the T1. To put it in perspective, it makes a 300Mhz iPaq seem slow in some function, especially graphics.

In regards to MP3's while doing other stuff, no problem with AeroPlayer or PocketTunes. I have had MP3's playing while streaming a 36Mb video file (with sound) from the same card. I also had the music playing while using mapping software to generate routes while running a GPS at the same time. PocketTunes will even keep playing during a hotsync, but I prefer the audio quality of AeroPlayer. No problem while doing a search either. I cannot vouch for RealOne... I deleted it because I did not like the way it worked, and it seemed to use up a lot more CPU.

The T2 promo is probably to encourage sales in the face of the upcoming T3. The T2 would have been a hot item... if news of the T3 had not leaked out.

The T3 price should be between $400 and $500. If you really want the hi-res+ screen of the T3 and can tolerate the different button layout, then wait.

If the extra screen space and memory is not that important, go for the T2. 32Mb of RAM on the Palm T2 is plenty unless you are very extreme user or use mapping software. A moderate to heavy user like my wife would walk around with 20Mb of unused RAM if she had a T2.

RE: Advice on T2
kurdt @ 8/9/2003 12:11:05 AM #
Thanks for your nice comment altema.

I have another question concerning the processor performance I have seen some benchmark comparing palm handheld vs sony and it seems that there is really a big difference if we are going to base it on the benchmark. But I dont have any idea on the real world side. Can you share your knowledge concerning this?

please check the link I provided. thanks

http://www.kittycentral.net/palms.html

Still missing some improvements

dieter_dk @ 8/17/2003 7:57:37 PM #
Besides the obvious RAM increase, I was hoping that there was a few minor harware design changes. Am I the only one that has a problem with the stereo jack being located on the side - you can not have a jak plugged in and put the TT in your pocket - it is worse of you have the leather wallet - I had to make a hole in mine to use the stereo jack in when the unit is in the wallet.
They thought about this when they designed the Zire Z's, why not the T2.

Another problem is that the unit turns on accidentally much to easily because of the front buttons being pressed.

Built in or not ? / Bugs in 5.2.1 on T2?

MFB @ 8/18/2003 8:24:45 PM #
Quote from review " New on the TT2, the WebPro browser (version 1.1), SMS, Dialer, PhoneLink and VersaMail 2.5 come pre-installed in the ROM." I bought my T2 here in Manila. WebPro & Versamail are not pre installed in the ROM as advertised in Palm.com These 2 apps are to be installed from disc 2 just like in T|T. Please comment. Bugs discovered on T2 - Auto lock or the other shortcut lock options enabled slowsdown the system. This is evident when using shortcuts, apps such as word complete & Text Plus. On screen graffiti also drags . Disabled, speed is normal. Bluetooth transfer of data from T2 to T610 is slower compared to my old T|T (patched)

RE: Built in or not ? / Bugs in 5.2.1 on T2?
morituri @ 8/20/2003 6:18:37 AM #
The software is only preinstalled in US TT2 ROMs. On EFIGS(International) TT2s, the multiple languages take too much space so only the Phone Link is in the ROM

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