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Comments on: Possible T3 SD Card Problem?

Multiple reports have surfaced claiming a possible issue with certain SD cards and the Tungsten T3. Some users are claiming that SD cards are losing all data and others become corrupted after use with the T3.

update Palm wants to hear from you if you have experienced a T3 SD card wipe out.

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SanDisk!

abosco @ 10/6/2003 2:02:27 PM #
Of course it's SanDisk! When 'expansion' and 'problem' are used in the same sentence, 'SanDisk' usually follows. Why is it that these cards are so problematic? Scamdisk..

Even if it isn't the fault of the cards, how did this happen? Palm has had over two years of experience with SD. Some beta tester must have spotted this problem somewhere along the line.

-Bosco

RE: SanDisk!
carioca76 @ 10/6/2003 2:24:11 PM #
my lexar 128 mb card shows sandisk as the manufacturer.
so far my t3 still reads & writes to it.
using docs to go native docs & mp3s.

i have removed the card until I hear it is fixed but I have used it all weekend without a problem



RE: SanDisk!
homer @ 10/6/2003 2:25:49 PM #
FINALLY!! someone who makes sense!!! yes.. this is a very very serious issue in which BOTH(yes, both) PalmOne and SanDisk should take into account. If its just one or 2 users who got this, maybe its some exceptional cases.. but there are just too many "fried" cards i see in the brighthand forums and they are just too scary... so many die hard PalmOne fans lost their precious card(s) on this prob. Now thank goodness someone is pointing this out here in Palm InfoCenter. Thanks. Now hopefully that SanDisk and PalmOne noticed this from such a powerful source, they will seriously look into this matter. before this, all users get are both of them blaming at each other. If they are not going to look into this, there will be alot of PalmOne fans staying away...for good...
thanks

RE: SanDisk!
gavinfabl @ 10/6/2003 2:35:12 PM #
Don't be hasty.

I have all the problems and the exact same error message as per bitsnbolts.

BUT I have a 512mb Panasonic Card. So it could be size of card and Sandisk

Zlauncher 3.62b, Tungsten TT3.

RE: SanDisk!
Altema @ 10/6/2003 8:41:05 PM #
Toshiba 256MB card manufactured by Panasonic: corrupted to the point of being unable to format the card on ANY device including desktop systems. Card is ruined.

Picked up a 512MB card this morning, thinking the card had just gone bad. New card is SanDisk, received bad sector error at 8:30pm Eastern US time.

Question is: who is going to replace my cards?

RE: SanDisk!
doctor__no @ 10/6/2003 8:54:04 PM #
What's really odd about Sandisk is that they are one of the original founders of the SD format. Sandisk, Toshiba, and Matsushita (i.e. panasonic, JVC, pioneer, etc.) where the people that created the format, it sounds strange that they would have so much trouble so often.
RE: SanDisk!
CaptMyCapt @ 10/6/2003 9:40:05 PM #
I've been using a Lexar 256 in a T|T for close to a year, and I am now using it in a T3 purchased just this past week end. Ordered a Lexar 512 just yesterday and I am now wishing I didn't after reading these posts. Not sure of return policies on SD card. so, I may just be SOL. Who knows, maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones, and the card will work fine LOL.

Captain T

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

This is a test for "The New Palm"
The Ugly Truth @ 10/8/2003 1:21:45 AM #
Pick a memory format and you'll see SanDisk at/near the bottom in terms of objective measures of performance. For example, the problems seen with the SanDisk CompactFlash card controllers are the stuff of legend.

But regardless of who is the primary culprit in this latest PDA teapot tempest, how Palm responds will be a good indication as to whether or not the company has changed its mindset. Palm needs to show that it learned its lesson from the previous m505 debacle by dealing with the current problem quickly and honestly. The last thing they need is a defective flagship product, especially with the competition about to heat up over the next few weeks.

If their own engineers need help - I wonder how beta testing failed to show such an obvious flaw - Palm should retain the services of a company like TRG/HandEra to develop a solution immediately.

Beating Sony et. al. to the market by a few weeks with a shiny new PDA won't mean much if Palm ends up getting bad publicity, eroding user loyalty and ultimately having to recall thousands of devices.

The days of simple Palms are over - we're probably going to start seeing a lot more hardware glitches and incompatibilities from now on. I just hope the current T³ problem doesn't stem from something stupid like Palm's Chinese contract manufacturer having used a defective 1 cent capacitor when the two cent capacitor was needed. Profit margins may be lower than they were three years ago, but Palm should know all too well that cutting costs can produce expensive fallout.


Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: SanDisk!
Strider_mt2k @ 10/8/2003 1:18:46 PM #
You said it.

The entire m100 series comes to mind.
Don't forget the thousands of colors of the m130.

We'll see how they do I guess.

Depending on how this all shakes out, i might consider a Pa1mone handheld in the future.
Just not right now.


RE: SanDisk!
tiger_bb @ 10/9/2003 1:07:30 PM #
from something stupid like Palm's Chinese contract manufacturer having used a defective 1 cent capacitor when the two cent capacitor was needed.

--------------------

Personally, I hate people using such words when a problem is not yet clarified.

RE: SanDisk!
midgetkiller @ 10/9/2003 6:40:15 PM #
Oh come on... we've seen it happen so many times it's getting to the point where we all expect it to happen.

When I saw this news story - the first thing through my head was 'ah, that's why Palm doesn't offer larger SD cards on their store'.

Frankly, the truth hurts...



RE: SanDisk!
The Ugly Truth @ 10/10/2003 6:15:31 AM #
we've seen it happen so many times it's getting to the point where we all expect it to happen.

I think Palm's previous mistakes may come back to haunt them. Palm can quickly destroy the goodwill it created among users in the late 1990s when the company was putting out solid, reliable hardware backed by (perhaps overly) generous customer support policies.

Compare the total cost of issuing a recall to the cost of taking the time to properly beta test hardware - it becomes even more surprising to see this happening.


Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: SanDisk!
Wollombi @ 10/10/2003 11:28:44 AM #
>"from something stupid like Palm's Chinese contract manufacturer having used a defective 1 cent capacitor when the two cent capacitor was needed.

--------------------

Personally, I hate people using such words when a problem is not yet clarified."<


You took the statement out of context and excluded the qualifying part of the statment, the words, " just hope the current T³ problem doesn't stem..." at the beginning of that sentence. Taken in context, this is an expression of opinion and hopefulness for the best. If you "hate people using such words", that's fine, but he had a right to say it whether you like what was said or not. Honestly, I hope it doesn't stem from something like that either. I think we all do.

_________________
Sean

"They're smoking crack."
-Linus Torvalds on SCO group's copyright claims against Linux-

RE: SanDisk!
macgoddess @ 11/15/2003 1:38:21 PM #
I have been using the T3 since it was released with a SanDisk 128MB card. I haven't had any problems with it at all until I installed zLauncher last night. Now, I keep getting fatal exceptions. I haven't lost any data yet, but I'm not keeping the software on there to find out.

I will be uninstalling it and going back to MegaLauncher since they now have high res + support. Hopefully, I won't have issues with it. Has anyone else used this software with the T3?

Man, Palm and SD...

Strider_mt2k @ 10/6/2003 2:32:23 PM #
They just can't seem to pull that together can they?

I think there is an SD patch for every Palm PDA so-equipped, saving maybe one or two, and they have size limits.

Still, at least it isn't SUDS, am I right? huuh?
(crickets)

I know you're out there, I can hear you typing...

RE: Man, Palm and SD...
abosco @ 10/6/2003 3:10:28 PM #
Do you guys hear something?

*Tumbleweed*

Must be my imagination. ;)

-Bosco

RE: Man, Palm and SD...
Strider_mt2k @ 10/7/2003 9:59:05 PM #
Excellent! :D


RE: Man, Palm and SD...
msm @ 10/13/2003 9:54:20 PM #
My Venerable Handera 330 is working just fine with with SanDisk 1.0GB CF & 512MB SD installed at the same time. No problems reading or writing.

Most probably this is a combination problem of software and hardware on the palm.

I almost bought a T3 with all the accessories. Then I saw postings on the SD problem. I will keep my reliable road warrior for now.



Grammar Nazi!

drac @ 10/6/2003 3:07:53 PM #
[b]"[...] prior to the card loosing data [...]"[/b]


...should be "prior to the card [i]losing[/i] data".

RE: Grammar Nazi!
Navamske @ 10/6/2003 8:38:44 PM #
[b]"[...] prior to the card loosing data [...]"[/b]

...should be "prior to the card [i]losing[/i] data".


If you want to be a purist about it, it should be "prior to the card's losing data."

RE: Grammar Nazi!
GHaavy @ 10/6/2003 10:01:38 PM #
Ahem,

Wrong... now you've turned the word 'losing' into an adjective.

Before we become too obsessed with literary etiquette, perhaps we should reflect upon the fact that English is not everyone’s primary language. Granted I’m a newcomer to this group, and hopefully those with more whiskers than I will forgive this rant, but in my not-too-humble opinion, I believe we should focus more on the content, than the medium. We stifle discussion by suppressing those who don’t have a strong grasp of the rules of English grammar. The next brilliant comment that that goes unsaid, could be the very comment that could have changed us all.

Having said that, let me apologize for the rant [quietly drags soap box to the far corner].


I'm not a smartass in real life, I just portray one on the web.

RE: Grammar Nazi!
indesman @ 10/6/2003 11:14:36 PM #
No wonder you know so much about the English language...you're Canadian!

RE: Grammar Nazi!
Bill Westwood @ 10/7/2003 4:27:27 AM #
To be absolutely pedantic: prior to its losing data is correct. Losing in this context is not an adjective, but a subjuctive and would normally take the genitive as above

RE: Grammar Nazi!
Goyena @ 10/7/2003 10:44:01 AM #
OK, "losing" is NOT spelled with two O's, but you're ALL screwed up when it comes to grammar.

The addition of -ing to a verb actually creates a GERUND which is more or less a VERB parading as a NOUN and as such, can be used as one. The adjective form of "lose" would be "lost" (not "loser" which would be the subsantive form) which is the equivalent of the PARTICIPLE of the verb, best known in grammatical constructions using the past perfect, such as "I have LOST all data on my SD, thank you very much."

Don't confuse PARTS OF SPEECH(noun, adjective, verb, gerund) with MOODS (subjunctive, indicative, admirative) with CASES (nominative, genitive, ablative, locative, instrumental, etc.). There is no logical argument that a "subjuctive and would normally take the genitive as above" because the anything in the subjunctive mood would be a verb, and thus not have any case, as verbs are conjugated (did I mention TENSES?) and not declined (CASES again, i.e. genitive).

If Bill meant to say "gerund" instead of "subjunctive" he was correct in saying that "losing" was in the genitive case, although (as explained above) the use of the word "normally" is unwarranted.

BTW, I'm American, and I needed to learn French, Russian, German and Albanian before I got all this **** straight. In these other languages, all these moods and cases are expressed by strange endings and prefixes and particles, whereas in English, you don't see them - even though they exist and we use them unwittingly, since we don't usually have to change the word. For example, our "apostrophe S" as in "Bob's fried SD card" is actually the genitive case; in Albanian, this can be represented by at least 5 different particles, depending on the usage of the noun and its position in the sentence.

This is all just a cheap and convoluted argument for all peoples of the world to embrace the English language. It's friggin' easier.



RE: Grammar Nazi!
mikecane @ 10/7/2003 11:16:48 AM #
My God! All this just because of a stray "o"!

Don't get ME started on when I frigging see "priviledged."!

RE: Grammar police!
The Ugly Truth @ 10/8/2003 2:26:30 AM #
I needed to learn ... Albanian


Tirana is all the Albanian you need to know, comrade.


Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: Grammar Nazi!
ronpro @ 10/8/2003 9:00:15 AM #
Hmmm... Is this an intensional red herring fallacy perhaps an "ad hominem, abusive" or just a buch of people trying to out-do eachother? Either way, it's all irrelevant.

Haha! And I guess my own comment is now a "Tu Quoque" fallacy. Oh, well. I was never any good at refutation anyway. :-)

Ron

actually...

JonathanChoo @ 10/6/2003 3:09:00 PM #
the problem is so severe that formatting them won't do any good. I have a 256Mb card with 18Mb usable after the problem emerged.

Psion 5/Motorola StarTac -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Sony N770C -> Sony T625C -> Sony NR70V/Ericsson T39m -> Toshiba e310 -> Palm Tungsten T/Ericsson T68m -> HP h2210 -> Palm Tungsten T/3/Ericsson T610
RE: actually...
madmaxmedia @ 10/6/2003 6:58:25 PM #
Umm actually that may be completely normal, a 256 MB card will not have all 256 MB free. It also has to do with the term '256 MB', it often means 256,000 kb which is different from 256 * 1024

RE: actually...
Altema @ 10/6/2003 8:50:04 PM #
It's not normal. A damaged card will sometimes fail the format and leave the old data scattered around.

Unrecognized Card

mosespatrader @ 10/6/2003 3:20:27 PM #
When I try to format my 64MB SanDisk card I get the following error:

"The handheld cannot recognize this card."

RE: Unrecognized Card
statik @ 10/6/2003 4:13:20 PM #
Have you tried re-formatting using a PC?

Crazy 'bout a http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/henryshaulers/">Mercury...

Suggest everyone write-locks their cards

Deslock @ 10/6/2003 3:53:47 PM #
My Lexar SD card is a Panasonic according to the T3's Card Info program. I've been using it since Wednesday without any problems. However, just to be safe, I write-locked it upon reading of this problem yeserday (I assume write-locking it will protect it).

I'm simply using an SD reader to copy stuff to it until this is resolved.

RE: Suggest everyone write-locks their cards
Vidge @ 10/6/2003 6:49:20 PM #
Good ideas. I think I'll do the same. I have a Panasonic 256 card

RE: Suggest everyone write-locks their cards
JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2003 11:36:48 AM #
I think it will. I have been experiencing it these fast few days to stop Silverscreen from writing to it. I stop backing up (just using my PC for now). Still can do loads of stuff with a locked card. I think I will get a small 64Mb MMC card for backing up. Just waiting for a case with 2 card slots. BTW, Covertec e-mailed me and said they will have the screen protector and leather case in 3 weeks time. If the price is right I will get a proper case (rather than using a universal slip case).

Psion 5/Motorola StarTac -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Sony N770C -> Sony T625C -> Sony NR70V/Ericsson T39m -> Toshiba e310 -> Palm Tungsten T/Ericsson T68m -> HP h2210 -> Palm Tungsten T/3/Ericsson T610
RE: Suggest everyone write-locks their cards
Mike_W @ 10/8/2003 12:20:21 AM #
Write-locking an SD card is only a "suggestion" to the device, it's easily overridden and who knows what a malfunctioning device will do.

I'd strongly suggest you simply don't use them.


PNY card. So far so good...

Chankla @ 10/6/2003 3:58:26 PM #
I am using a 256MB card from "PNY"
It shows as being from Toshiba.
234.3 MB used (mostly MP3 files and a directory for backup). I use BackupBuddyVFS version 2.04.

Knock on wood. All is well.


RE: PNY card. So far so good...
MrMark @ 10/6/2003 7:50:47 PM #
My PNY 256MB card is also working fine so far... But I just purchased my T3 Sunday.....

I am not trolling

somas1 @ 10/6/2003 4:38:45 PM #
I find it disturbing that consumers have to be careful about the brand/size of sd card used in PalmOne handhelds. I use memory sticks and compact flash and although I am not thrilled with either medium, I don't have to wonder if a san disk memory stick will be better or worse than a lexar memory stick. Is it only PalmOne that has this issue? I am thinking about getting a Zodiac but if PPCs and other sd using machines have similar problems I may want to steer clear of the Zod.

RE: I am not trolling
robrecht @ 10/6/2003 7:43:20 PM #
I've heard a lot about difficulties with SDIO driver support with PPC, and don't even get me started about SONY's Memory Stick!

Thanks, robrecht
RE: I am not trolling
ronpro @ 10/8/2003 9:16:17 AM #
Although many people seem to be suggesting that brand/size iare the issue. This has by no means been demonstrated. I've seen posts of people with problems from brands other than SanDisk and smaller sizes such as 64Mb. I really hate to blame Palm because I really can't stand MS and their damn desire to dominate every related field. However, if you read carefully, it's looking like it is not and SD card problem, which leaves Palm, Palm's manufacturer or Palm's supplier. In any of these cases, it's Palm's problem to deal with. I just hope they do it quickly before those damn MS and PPC people get to gloat for too long.

Ron

RE: I am not trolling
somas1 @ 10/8/2003 4:04:50 PM #
This site http://freespace.virgin.net/jon.crawford/
suggests that this problem is not a Palm OS only problem. The main culprit seems to be san disk but any brand of sd card with certain serial numbers(id numbers?) are giving people with PPCs trouble too.

RE: I am not trolling
twocents @ 10/11/2003 11:06:04 AM #
"...and don't even get me started about SONY's Memory Stick!"

Is this just an opinion or can you point me to some information.

RE: I am not trolling
robrecht @ 10/13/2003 3:03:43 PM #
It's just an opinion about SONY's misleading marketing about the future development of the original Memory Stick serial protocol and their promised compatibility, and their subsequent refusal to acknowledge their false and misleading statements.

I think someone over at ClieSource has a pointless class action suit against SONY but I can't point you to specifics.

Thanks, robrecht

My 512mb Sandisk is fine for now...

rogerkang @ 10/6/2003 4:43:29 PM #
Has been working like a champ for a week now...

RE: My 512mb Sandisk is fine for now...
gbbles @ 10/7/2003 10:17:05 AM #
Hi there Roger! Remember me, Gilbert?

It's been a long way since my m505 days and now that I'm on a T|T2, I can't wait to get my hands on a T|T3.

You said that your 512mb Sandisk card works pretty well with the T|T3, did you start out from scratch, meaning that you only restored the Calendar, Contacts, Todos and Memos from your previous Palm?

Any conflicts at all?


This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.

aaronchow @ 10/6/2003 5:57:42 PM #
If you've been using a SD card long enought, you should have heard of how bad SanDisk's stuffs are, especially their SD cards that are larger than 64MBs.

This issue doesn't apply to T3 only, it basically applies to PocktPCs and Zaurus as well. I have the same experience on my iPaq 2210, and it happens very often that I need to buy a non-SanDisk SD card later on.

SanDisk has never publicly addressed this issue, and you should becareful when you buy other brands also because some other brands also use SanDisk's controller, so even some most trusted Panasonic cards fails as well.

I doubt PalmOne can do anything about it as this is SanDisk's problem. If you want to be safe, just grab a more expensive one.

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
aaronchow @ 10/6/2003 6:06:59 PM #
and I'm surprised that none of you (especially Ryan) have heard about SanDisk's horrible products, as this is well known in the PPC community.

"I doubt, therefore I might be."
RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
bquin @ 10/6/2003 6:32:37 PM #
The original T/T fried 3 sandisk sd cards before I wised up and use other brands, but what I am hearing is that the T3 fries other brands as well. Can anyone confirm this?


Bquin
...laughing at a world too absurd to take seriously...

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
MKD @ 10/6/2003 6:55:01 PM #
I have been using sandisk since before the Tungsten series and I do not understand why everyone knocks it.
None of them have burned out yet and I have 5 sandisk sd cards.
Perhaps I am so used to sluggish reading that it never phased me. I am getting the t3 tomorrow...burn baby burn!!

If you don't expect anything...
you won't be disappointed

MKD

Sorry, not SanDisk only...
Altema @ 10/6/2003 8:47:48 PM #
SanDisk cards are not the only ones affected.

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
aaronchow @ 10/6/2003 9:21:51 PM #
SanDisk doesn't only make SD cards, they also make controller chips for others, too. So, for example, if PNY decides to use SanDisk's controller because it offers the cheapest price, then PNY's cards will also affected by this.

Panasonic cards are a very good example of this. Those that are made in Japan runs in high quality while those are made in the U.S. have problems.

You should spend some time on PPC forum, like Brighthand, and you'll see how many people will tell you to avoid buying SanDisk related stuffs.

"I doubt, therefore I might be."

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
abosco @ 10/6/2003 10:08:02 PM #
Aaronchow, we are all too familiar with Sandisk's products' failures. Like having a write speed 5% of the norm. Compatibility issues with the original TT. General slow access speeds all around. It doesn't take a PPC to find out this problem. It's been prevalent for a while, now.

-Bosco
RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
aaronchow @ 10/7/2003 12:54:28 AM #
Don't take it so seriously, I'm just trying to counter-attack those T3 flamers. They don't even understand the situation, but they are pretty much using this as a troll and start flaming everywhere I go.

So, just relax.

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
Wollombi @ 10/7/2003 1:16:24 AM #
>"SanDisk has never publicly addressed this issue, and you should becareful when you buy other brands also because some other brands also use SanDisk's controller, so even some most trusted Panasonic cards fails as well."<

Um...Panasonic manufactures their own controllers. I've *never* heard of them buying controllers from SanDisk or anyone else. I have heard that manufacturers that sell rebranded Panasonic cards (i.e. Lexar) are also starting to use SanDisk cards as well.

_________________
Sean

"They're smoking crack."
-Linus Torvalds on SCO group's copyright claims against Linux-

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
tthiel @ 10/7/2003 1:38:33 AM #
Whatever...Palm should have tested their PDA with Sandisk as it is a very widely sold brand. There is no excuse for this.

THAT'S RIGHT
Quik_Fix @ 10/7/2003 11:08:06 AM #
They should have bought every single Sandisk SD out there over 64mb and tested them!

Dude,
They're not all defective. Why don't you blame Nissan for the crappy gas they sell at Speedway?

Oh my God. They found me. I dunno how but they found me...
RUN FOR IT MARTY!

Quik_Fix
quikfix76@msn.com

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
mj6798 @ 10/7/2003 1:25:37 PM #
"They should have bought every single Sandisk SD out there over 64mb and tested them!"

In essence, yes. That's what the "SD industry association" is there for: to ensure compatibility between devices and cards with the SD logo on them. If SanDisk is known to make incompatible or marginal cards, their use of the SD logo should be revoked. Palm is a board member of the SD industry association, so this is their business not just because they are shipping SD-compatible machines, but also because they are involved with SD.

And, yes, Palm should be testing their handhelds with hundreds of different cards, many cards from the same manufacturer, under heavy load, to detect just these kinds of problems.

Note that there is no reason to believe that SanDisk is actually at fault. Many people have used their SD cards for months in other handhelds or cameras with no problems. The obvious conclusion is that it's the T3 that's out of spec, not the card. Maybe SanDisk cards are just more sensitive to out-of-spec devices but their cards are actually still within spec. But as a customer, I shouldn't have to worry about that.

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
French @ 10/8/2003 5:22:26 AM #
Well people, I have not had any problems with my 128 mb Sandisk card on my T3. Everybody here is knocking it but thus far...I have had no problems and I have had my T3 for 2 weeks. Of course, I havn't downloaded any mp3's on it yet. My current mp3's on the disk are from my old T2.

Here's hoping nothing bad happens. You guys are frieking me out and making me paranoid to keep using it.

RE: This is SanDisk's fault, not PalmOne.
tthiel @ 10/8/2003 9:55:01 PM #

"They should have bought every single Sandisk SD out there over 64mb and tested them!
Dude,
They're not all defective. Why don't you blame Nissan for the crappy gas they sell at Speedway?"

First of all only 16 year olds call each other "dude", secondly given the very large number of complaints any kind of testing would have uncovered this issue.


sandisk...ick!

mikochu @ 10/6/2003 8:13:36 PM #
Even when I had my Toshiba e740, they told me to stay away from sandisk SD cards because they are known to be problematic...They said Panasonic SDs are real good, though...

Michael Reyes
www.mikochu.com

it *is* Palm's problem

mj6798 @ 10/6/2003 8:43:56 PM #
SD is an industry consortium. The whole purpose of that consortium is to ensure compatibility. Palm chose SD cards as their expansion medium. That choice makes it Palm's responsibility if their handhelds break SD-branded cards. If Palm believes that SD cards are not guaranteed to be compatible with their handhelds, they have to either get the SD certification for cards that they know to be incompatible revoked, or they have to abandon SD for something else.

So, if a Palm model breaks an SD card, Palm should take back the handheld. And either Palm or SanDisk should replace the broken card--the choice of which company it is should be mine, since, as consortium members, they are both responsible. For each company to shift the blame on the other just isn't acceptable.

RE: it *is* Palm's problem
gcastell @ 10/6/2003 9:03:04 PM #
Although you are probably correct in your statement that is a PalmOne problem, I need to clarify that even SD is an standard there are some variations, like the SMART SD Cards made by solectron, very cheap cards, these cards have holes in the connection and they don't work with ANY palmOne handheld, I do not know if these work with a PocketPC, the only way I could use it is with a card reader.
RE: it *is* Palm's problem
mj6798 @ 10/6/2003 9:55:42 PM #
"Although you are probably correct in your statement that is a PalmOne problem, I need to clarify that even SD is an standard there are some variations, like the SMART SD Cards made by solectron, very cheap cards, these cards have holes in the connection and they don't work with ANY palmOne handheld, I do not know if these work with a PocketPC, the only way I could use it is with a card reader."

My point is that the existence of those variations is Palm's problem. Palm claims that their handhelds are compatible with SD cards, meaning all SD cards. If Palm is known to be only compatible with some SD cards then Palm would have to say so.

Note that Palm is a board member of the SD card industry association, the association that sets the standards, owns the trademarks, and determines who can and cannot label their cards as "SD Cards".

RE: it *is* Palm's problem
jodihansen @ 10/6/2003 10:51:57 PM #
I am interested to know if anyone has experienced this problem with a Palm branded SD card?

Jodi

RE: it *is* Palm's problem
bquin @ 10/7/2003 12:16:57 AM #
It is Palm's problem because they let Sandisk advertise on its product that it is Palm compatible...

Bquin
...laughing at a world too absurd to take seriously...
RE: it *is* Palm's problem
aaronchow @ 10/7/2003 12:57:32 AM #
So it's Palm's fault when somebody makes a faulty SD card and Palm can't accept it, eh, I see.

There is no stupid questions, just stupid people.

RE: it *is* Palm's problem
mj6798 @ 10/7/2003 4:44:59 AM #
"So it's Palm's fault when somebody makes a faulty SD card and Palm can't accept it, eh, I see."

"Fault" and "responsibility" are not the same thing. It isn't Palm's "fault", but it is their "responsibility".


RE: it *is* Palm's problem
tthiel @ 10/8/2003 9:56:58 PM #
This is a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.

RE: it *is* Palm's problem
The Ugly Truth @ 10/9/2003 3:59:49 AM #
This is a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.

Palm can't afford any more lawsuits. They've already wasted millions of dollars fighting bogus lawsuits and a major loss could put them out of business.




Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

Corrupted SanDisk 64MB Secure Digital Card

Swanvestas @ 10/6/2003 9:11:22 PM #
I had this very problem with a SanDisk 64MB card that worked fine in my Tungsten T. As soon as I formatted it in the T3 it became corrupted and un-useable. I've since been unable to reformat it. Interestingly, I have been using both a 32MB SanDisk Multimedia card and a Delkin 128MB Secure Digital card that seem to work fine...so far.

Sounds like problem is only on SD cards of greater than 32MB

Gekko @ 10/6/2003 10:00:25 PM #
Anyone have any problems with SD Cards of 32MB or less?

Another Sandisk bites the dust!

LEDO @ 10/6/2003 11:23:58 PM #
I just picked up a T3 yesterday. I charged it up and loaded in the software and within 20 minutes it trashed a Sandisk 64mb SD card. This was the same card that I've used in my TT for the last year with no problems whatsoever. All my cards are staying out of the slot until somebody at Palm comes up with some answers.

Observations and possible cause

Altema @ 10/7/2003 12:13:01 AM #
What I suspect may be happening, is that the T3 IO control voltages may be too high. While this may be OK for brief write operations or copying a few dozen files, a contious operation such a backup or writing a 40+MB file to the card may cause the SD controller in the card to generate errors. In a worst-case scenario, the card's controller will be damaged.

What led me down this path is that the errors only appeared when performing an intensive operation, such as a full back up or copying huge files while the card is in the Palm. To test, I performed a backup which resulted in the bad sector error. Surprisingly, the card was very warm. Not hot, but well above what I have ever felt before with an SD card. Sure enough, the card was corrupted and I could not open several DTG files from the card. Performing a format in my laptop left the card cool. Performing a full scan with bad block checking took several minutes, but there were no bad blocks or errors detected, and, the card was still cool. Still on the laptop, the SD card was reloaded by copying my backup to the card. Writing over 200MB of data directly to the card in one shot caused no errors when it was done in my laptop. The card was slightly warm, but nowhere near the almost-hot temperature obtained by doing a sustained write while the card is installed in the Palm. Continous reads have no similar effect, as I have played MP3s and video files for hours with no card overheating. I'm not going to lock my card, as it seems to have no problem with less intensive operations, but I will avoid backups with any product for now until the problem has been resolved.

RE: Observations and possible cause
mj6798 @ 10/7/2003 4:52:09 AM #
Is that fixable in software on the T3? Or will Palm have to issue a recall?

RE: Observations and possible cause
ganoe @ 10/7/2003 6:51:53 AM #
I would avoid jumping to the conclusion that this is a hardware problem at this point.

Sounds more to me like something in the driver is marking sectors on the card as bad even though they are not. Once marked bad, I don't think a simple format or running error checking is going to fix the card (I think they both just assume bad sectors are still bad). I believe you would have to run some lower level operations to "fix" the sectors that were incorrectly marked bad. Just a guess on my part though.

RE: Observations and possible cause
Altema @ 10/7/2003 10:41:53 AM #
mj6789: Don't know, depends on what the actual cause of the problem is, and if it is something that can be altered by a software patch.

ganoe: I don't want to jump either, just posting my findings. Although I was able to restore my 512MB card to be fully functioning again, my 256MB Lexar was not so fortunate. The chip controller is actually damaged... something which I don't think would be caused by sectors being marked bad. A scan while it was still working revealed 0 bad blocks, and that report did not change after numerous errors. I think that the card overheating while being hammered is very telling. Still, I agree that we should wait for more information.

RE: Observations and possible cause
Altema @ 10/7/2003 10:57:03 AM #
PS: of course we are ingnoring the fact that the T3 has faster IO, and is probably one of the first Palms (with the T|C) to really challenge the IO capabilities of the SD cards.

If this was the case, then it would be the same as my old bracket racer I used to run at the dragstrip: The rear axle was fine... until I bumped up the power from 200hp to 350hp. Cleaned those teeth off of the ring gear!

RE: Observations and possible cause
ganoe @ 10/7/2003 11:20:32 AM #
> The chip controller is actually damaged

and you know that because??? Did you use the manufacturer's procedure to test the chip of something?

RE: Observations and possible cause
bquin @ 10/7/2003 1:48:30 PM #
I think your theory must be correct. My 3 sandisk cards fried when I was doing a major install of mp3 files. Luckily I was able to return all 3...

Bquin
...laughing at a world too absurd to take seriously...
RE: Observations and possible cause
wibauxl @ 10/8/2003 7:51:16 AM #
One of the most frequent cause of overheating in any electronic device is OVERCLOCKING. It is possible that the 400Mhz XScale use causes the bus to run too quickly for the controller of the SanDisk.
Frying up a controller with over-voltage would need a serious increase of level (generally caused by statics).

Laurent

RE: Observations and possible cause
Altema @ 10/8/2003 5:19:14 PM #
Laurent, you are right. Excessive speed seems more likely than control voltages. I did notice that the T3 shoves data around a whole lot faster than any Palm I've ever had. The initial restore operation for an on-the-card backup using BackupMan was a matter of seconds, as opposed to a couple of minutes on the T1. Can't vouch for the TC even though it has the same processor, as it may not have the sam bus speed.

Of course at this point, I'm just guessing based on the evidence.

RE: Observations and possible cause
fleegle @ 10/9/2003 9:02:16 AM #
Excessive speeds seems like the most plausible reason to me also.

The SanDisk data transfer rate to/from flash are 2.0 MB/sec (burst) and the data transfer rate to/from the host is 2.5 MB/sec burst). I wonder if the T3 is exceeding this spec? Does anyone out there have the ability to, or want to, try measuring it?

If this indeed was the cause and slowing down the transfer rate solved the problem, how many people would be up in arms and griping about the slower transfer rate? That is, how many people "want their cake and eat it too?"


RE: Observations and possible cause
Altema @ 10/9/2003 11:45:01 AM #
My 512MB card was having a few file corruptions here and there. I had stopped doing backups to the card, but may have been too late. The store that sold me the card (and the T3) exchanged it for a new card which has been working perfectly... but I'm avoiding full backups or large transfers (like MP3s) until we get to the bottom of this. Fortunately for the backups, the new desktop software does a good job of restoring the handheld,.. unlike some of the older versions. Glad palmOne fixed that :)

Lexar 64mb by Toshiba, no problems.

Beacon @ 10/7/2003 12:29:25 AM #
I have a 64mb Lexar card which I've had since my M505. It's worked perfectly so far. Card Info says it's a Toshiba.

Any one use a Sandisk card with a camera and have problems? Other posters say they haven't worked all that well with PPCs.


Lexar 128mb by Panasonic
ptc @ 10/7/2003 11:42:50 AM #
Been using for 5 days now in a T3 - no problems at all.
RE: Lexar 64mb by Toshiba, no problems.
hudsonhawk @ 10/10/2003 11:43:07 AM #
Yeah, I had a 128MB Sandisk fail on my Digital camera. We had it for maybe 6 months before it started periodically timing out and then started getting bad sectors. Finally ended up tossing the thing; what a monumental waste of money.

I do like the Sandisk 6-in-1 card reader for what it's worth... but I definitely won't ever buy a Sandisk-made card again.

Any ideas how to find out which cards they OEM?

What about WiFi?

hucsman @ 10/7/2003 12:58:18 AM #
I was expecting to buy the Sandisk SD Wifi card when the drivers are availabple for PAlmOS. Now, I'm not so sure. Will it work, or is this only a problem with memory cards?

RE: What about WiFi?
tthiel @ 10/8/2003 9:58:42 PM #
I wouldn't be the first to find out.....

Me Too - My T3 toasted a 256 San Disk SD card

nzjss @ 10/7/2003 1:00:06 AM #
Made the mistake of thinking that I could just pop the card out to the Tungsten T straight into a newly charged T3 and push "Restore"...
Everything locked solid up on the T3 - it is very unrobust about the software on ram. We did the YES reset and the T3 worked - then started pushing over various programs & associated files (to save having to reenter all software unlock codes)- after a few more YES resets things seemed to be working when McFile showed no data in the PALM directory on the card (Panic!). I put the card in the PC card reader and the whole drive came up with a Palm File logo like it was a single file but showed the Audio & PALM directories. When I clicked on the directory it froze - dead as - cant be formatted - junk! (the nice man at Portables Plus here in Wellington NZ gave me a new one!)
An identical card from my camera is working OK so far (with many backups to the PC) with all software loaded from the PC and all those unlock codes re-entered.
Another problem with the T3 is the Grafitti 2 is flaky and just stops working - I cant write anything - I can see the letter in the graffiti area but no text appears until after a soft reset. Plus the bluetooth has just stopped saying the software is not there.
Good Luck to the other T3 owners out there!
John

SD Card Problem

cfujii @ 10/7/2003 1:18:56 AM #
It seems to be true with my T3. I noticed that the card was operating very slowly in the T3. I got an error message saying that I was out of spare cells. After that, things started going down hill. I could not use it with my PC or the T3. Eventually, whenever I inserted it in the T3, it asked if I wanted to format it. Of course, formatting didn't work. Fortunately, the card only contained some Backup Buddy files and some games.

The card in question is a SanDisk 128MB card. I purchased a Lexar (made by Panasonic) 256MB card at CompUSA for $79 and it works just fine.

RE: SD Card Problem
maddie @ 10/7/2003 4:32:22 PM #
Palm Has acknowled the problem and is working on it.

My T3 also destroyed my 128 SanDisk Card, Fortunatley my NX60 is up and running

I do not know when they will acknowledge it officially!

Only problems with SanDisk? Any counter example?

skeezix @ 10/7/2003 8:09:21 AM #

So all the problems are with SanDisk branded, or SanDisk unbranded cards? (ie: You might have a LExar, but if your particular Lexar was actually a rebranded SanDisk, you have a problem?) Are there any Toshiba or Panasonic or the like made SD cards that are known to have been killed in a T3?

(ie: My SanDisk card is acting up, so I'm going to buy a new SD card today.....)

jeff

The Shadow knows!

RE: Only problems with SanDisk? Any counter example?
skeezix @ 10/7/2003 1:32:09 PM #
In case anyone is still reading this thread..

I picked up a Lexar (which turns out to be a Panasonic once I tested it in the device at the store :), so I picked it up; BackupMan still doesn't work (same error), but I can read and write to it with the T3 and use Card Export with it, etc.

Upon trying to read mt data off my old SanDisk using a card reader.. no go. Mostly bad. Also can't read it with PDA :( Lots of data loss.

Copying stuff to the new Lexar seams fine though...

jeff

The Shadow knows!

RE: Only problems with SanDisk? Any counter example?
jcmorganstein @ 10/10/2003 2:12:28 PM #
Just wanted to check... are you using the most recent version of BackupMan? I have a Lexar (Panasonic) 512MB card and the latest BackupMan and it backs up and restores without problem. Just thought I'd ask in the hopes it might fix some problems.

-jcm

Somewhat off topic but...

EthiopianFlash @ 10/7/2003 10:38:16 AM #
I think I have found a different flaw in my new T3.
If I record a voice memo and set it as an alarm to play as an alarm, when the alrm plays, it locks the T3 and I have to do a soft reset.
Has any one else experienced this?

RE: Somewhat off topic but...
Altema @ 10/9/2003 11:39:22 AM #
No such problem here. The alarm goes off at the appointed time, then plays the memo. You may have a third-party software conflict or a possible hardware problem. I suspect the first. If the problem persists, contact palmOne's email support, and they will sent you further instructions.

FATAL RESET

glee @ 10/7/2003 10:38:49 AM #
Hi:

I've lost two Sandisk since I got my T3 last Tuesday. I was using a 125 MB card to back up files and offload DOC files with M515. I was careful to delete any program files from the LAUNCHER subdirectory before putting it into my new T3. Also ran Backup Buddy VFS to back up the card files.

I'm using applications such as Avantgo, iSiloX, Vindigo, Palm Reader. Backup Buddy VFS won't work with OS5, according to the vendor. At some point during a Hotsync, I noticed a "Fatal Reset" message. After rebooting, I reseated the 125 MB card and it couldn't be reformatted or recognized by either the Palm or my SD card reader. The return is in process.

Monday night, I also lost a brand new 256 MB card after a Fatal Reset during another Hotsync. Good luck everyone.


Palm is doing a Sony

JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2003 11:44:13 AM #
Palm will probably ignore this problem. It has existed since the original T. I have e-mailed them and they claimed it is not a known issue and would recommend formatting the cards on the T3 itself (although I told them I did so in my original e-mail). And Sandisk isn't even replying any of my e-mails. This reminds me of the time when my Sony NR70V's display got damaged and I sent it in & they told me it was due to 'rough' usage and won't be covered under warranty. They wanted £200 for a new screen.

Psion 5/Motorola StarTac -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Sony N770C -> Sony T625C -> Sony NR70V/Ericsson T39m -> Toshiba e310 -> Palm Tungsten T/Ericsson T68m -> HP h2210 -> Palm Tungsten T/3/Ericsson T610
RE: Palm is doing a Sony
Palm4u @ 10/10/2003 11:43:19 AM #
Maybe you're just Sony bashing (which is normal), but a SD card reading/erasing failure is nothing like your broken display.

Any manufacturer has no control or monitoring of how a user takes care of their PDA, so they cannot vouche for coverage on their warranty. For these things, you need to buy extended user warranties at place of purchase.

Comparing as such is not equivalent.

================================
PDAs rule the world !

Are ALL Sandisk sd cards >64MB affected?

pgovotsos @ 10/7/2003 1:51:25 PM #
Hello all,
Are ALL Sandisk SD cards over 64 MB affected? I have a Sandisk 128MB card in a Tungsten C and a 256MB card in a Tungsten T3. The TC has been going for over a month with no problems and the T3 has no problems since Oct 1 (purchase date). The T3 uses the card a LOT - it's used for reading for 4-6 hours daily plus "normal" stuff.

Is it possible that this is an issue only with certain SD devices and certain SD cards and not a simple all or nothing issue?
Thanks,
Panagiotis

sandisk reply

carioca76 @ 10/7/2003 2:17:18 PM #
Hello,
Thank you for contacting SanDisk Technical Support.
All Sandisk cards are able to be read in all devices that can read SD cards. You might want to contact Palm to see if there are any firmware updates for the T3.
Here is the link to Palm:
http://www.palm.com/home.html
If you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this e-mail or contact our technical support department toll free at 866-SANDISK (866-726-3475). Our technical support team is open Monday through Friday, 7 am to 4 pm PST. Have a Great Day and thank you for choosing SanDisk!
Best Regards,
Scott
SanDisk Technical Support

RE: sandisk reply
tthiel @ 10/8/2003 9:59:43 PM #
In other words get lost sucker we already have your money...

RE: sandisk reply
mj6798 @ 10/10/2003 12:41:46 PM #
All Sandisk cards are able to be read in all devices that can read SD cards.

Note that they didn't say that they can be written :-)

In other words get lost sucker we already have your money...

Look at it from SanDisk's perspective: their cards have been on the market for a while and people are using them with lots of digital cameras. Now the T3 comes out and they break with it.

The point is: both Palm and SanDisk are responsible for this: they are both board members of the SD card association, and they both guarantee that their products work with each other. If they don't, they have to stand behind their products and replace them/reimburse people. They should do their finger pointing in private.

Palm are aware and are working on a software patch

bmckenzie @ 10/7/2003 4:23:07 PM #
From: Palm Support <support@palm.com>
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2003 8:48:45 PM Europe/London
To:
Subject: Re: Other: I've just ordered a new T3 and am very c

Dear Bruce,

Thank you very much for your inquiry. I understand that you would like to know whether 256 MB Expansion SD card is compatible with Palm(TM) Tungsten(TM) T3 handheld.

Bruce, currently Palm, Inc., has identified some issues with 256 MB Expansion SD card on your Palm Tungsten T3 handheld. Palm is aware of the issue and in order to make Palm handheld more user friendly our Technicians are diligently working hard to resolve the issue and will be coming up with the patch to resolve the issue. The patch will be updated on our Palm Web site soon.

I suggest that you keep visiting our Palm site for the latest updates at the following URL:

http://www.palm.com/

RE: Palm are aware and are working on a software patch
Patrick @ 10/7/2003 5:00:01 PM #
Don't you just love it?

Not destroying the user's expensive SD cards = making the T3 more user friendly.

This sort of ridiculous level of customer management doublespeak is what makes good, friendly folks so downright sceptical of anything marketing people do or say.


RE: Palm are aware and are working on a software patch
carioca76 @ 10/7/2003 5:20:06 PM #
I contacted technical support & was told they don't know about this. I told him the forum they link to is full of people that have had their cards destroyed & asked again if nothing was being done to resolve this. He told me being on the front lines he doesn't know if the engineers are working on it. He suggested I stop using the card until further notice.

It is wierd to be told by the manufacturer to stop using a feature of a pda I was sold by them until they fix a problem they don't know about.

Still waiting ...

RE: Palm are aware and are working on a software patch
Altema @ 10/7/2003 9:21:25 PM #
"Technicians are diligently working hard to resolve the issue and will be coming up with the patch to resolve the issue. The patch will be updated on our Palm Web site soon."

Well thank goodness they are working on it. The rep I spoke with was very helpful, but did not seem to have known about the problem. Having run a helpdesk before, I know that the reps often do not get a heads up on situations like this unless they are sitting next to someone whe received a similar call, chat about it at lunch, or hear about it at the next morning meeting.

RE: Palm are aware and are working on a software patch
mj6798 @ 10/10/2003 12:44:59 PM #
Technicians are diligently working hard to resolve the issue

The way they put this, it sounds just like the Keebler Elves :-)

RE: Palm are aware and are working on a software patch
The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 3:27:27 PM #
Technicians are diligently working hard to resolve the issue

The way they put this, it sounds just like the Keebler Elves :-)

Would you prefer "Dedicated handheld computer technicians are diligently working hard around the clock as part of a massive co-ordinated effort to resolve the issue as quickly as possible"?

Spin 101. Chapter 1, page 3.


Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: Palm are aware and are working on a software patch
The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 3:36:41 PM #
If a software patch is possible, will this simply underclock data transfers during "write" operations? That would be a slick fix that would buy Palm the time to get their Chinese manufacturer to fix any underlying hardware problems. Assuming this manufacturer will actually admit to and address any problems in timely manner.

*Soapbox on*
We need to start making electronics in the USA again. For a lot of reasons. Of course, with Chinese workers being paid around 60 cents an hour, the only way America can compete is by using almost fully-automated factories. Companies like Dell and HP should be leading the way in the "Made in the USA" movement, but it looks like the bottom line is all that matters to big business. It's scary to see how quickly the world has become dependent on China for the manufacturing of goods. Almost every relatively inexpensive consumer item seems to be made in China these days. Look around any store and you'll actually find it hard to find American-made goods. Big business may not care about human rights abuses abroad, but it's still unsettling to see so many companies now dependent on Bejing. If their government ever becomes unstable, the world's economy is going to collapse, literally overnight.
*Soapbox off*

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: Palm are aware and are working on a software patch
nzjss @ 10/11/2003 6:36:30 PM #
Why the anti China crap? The Chineese company will make whatever Palm specified and be very careful doing it knowing they will not get further business if they screw up. The US company is the one who designs the item and sets the specification - point your biased finger there!

We all had a similar problem from Palm with the Tungsten T "345 file limit in Ram" fault and that took 5 months for Palm to recognise/admit & fix.

Palm has recognised this problem in less that 10 day so it is a huge improvement on their part.

My T3 and SanDisk 256 card are now working OK after formatting the card in the T3 and loading all software via HotSync

Sandisk SD cards

mattfield @ 10/7/2003 5:32:35 PM #
Check this out - not related to T3 but to SD cards not working/corrupting with a Dell Axim.

Raises a lot of interesting questions about country of manafacture etc.

RE: Sandisk SD cards
chinchorrero @ 10/7/2003 10:34:49 PM #
My T3 is working perfect with my SanDisk 256mb.
The best Palm ever.

"Life is Too Short"
RE: Sandisk SD cards
onestar @ 10/8/2003 12:48:59 PM #
Is there supposed to be a link here?

I know I've had problems with the 128MB SanDisk and my (forgive me) Axim. (It's my work machine...I still prefer Palm).

Just curious...

One by one, the penguins are stealing my sanity.

RE: Sandisk SD cards
mattfield @ 10/8/2003 8:07:50 PM #
RE: Sandisk SD cards
Neoesis @ 10/10/2003 8:28:37 AM #
I'm also running a T3 with a SanDisk 256MB. Over a week and no problems. I use BackupBuddy VFS constantly (in response to the person who thought it didn't work on OS5)

Continue to buy SanDisk?

wendo @ 10/8/2003 1:21:46 AM #
Why do Palm users continue to by SanDisk SD cards when it's been well known (for over a year) that they are not reliable in Palm Handhelds. SanDisk uses substandard chipsets that do not work properly or speedwise. I would NEVER buy a SanDisk flash memory product knowing what I do know about SanDisk.

Don't buy or use SanDisk SD cards. They're crap.

Secondly, the T3 is a new device, like any new computer or electronics device. Like other first generation products there are going to be initial issues. (Just because it's a T3 doesn't make it a third generation T series.) Therefore, if one doesn't want to encounter such possible early adopter issues, don't buy a first generation product. If you do, then take steps to protect yourself. Back up your data. Research on the internet about your product to see what's going on, etc.

Personally, I've been very happy with my T3. But, I'm also aware that it's a new device, a new product, and a first generation item. As an early adopter, I take steps to minimize problems. I would suggest others who early adopt new electronics to do the same.

Btw, I have two 256 MB SD cards that have shown no problems. (Both are rebranded Panasonics; one Lexar the other SimpleTech.) At this time, I've write locked them and only put them in the device when needed. Since the T3 has 64 MB of RAM, there is more internal memory to work with.

Lastly, I do believe Palm will rectify this issue. It's certainly unfortunate that people have lost SD cards. However, if they were SanDisk I can only recommend going with another brand. IMO, Panasonic SD cards (and those that are rebranded) seem to be the best.

Good luck to all.

-----

Pilot 5000, Palm IIIc, Clie N710c, Clie NR70v, Tungsten T, Tungsten T2, Tungsten T3

SanDisk will ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICAINE*
The Ugly Truth @ 10/8/2003 2:35:04 AM #
*1980s song by The Scorpions

Why do Palm users continue to by SanDisk SD cards

Because they're everywhere and they're cheap and most users don't know any better.

Like other first generation products there are going to be initial issues.

Beta testing should have shown this problem long ago.

At this time, I've write locked them

Until we learn what the underlying problem is, that might not be enough. You'd probably be better off relying on RAM for the next little while.




Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: Continue to buy SanDisk?
ozz @ 10/8/2003 11:32:13 AM #
Sometimes the truth is UGLY! D-: Aarrghh!
RE: Continue to buy SanDisk?
wendo @ 10/8/2003 4:25:11 PM #
"Beta testing should have shown this problem long ago."

Perhaps. However, beta testing is a much smaller pool of people than when a product is released. It's possible this problem wasn't known. As a T3 user, I haven't encountered any problems with SD cards described here. None. Only a small percentage may be affected and, as a result, wouldn't have shown itself during a beta test.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting those who've lost cards are at fault at all. This issue needs to be fixed and hopefully those who've lost cards will receive compensation.

There's nothing to do at this point but wait for Palm's engineers.

-----

Pilot 5000, Palm IIIc, Clie N710c, Clie NR70v, Tungsten T, Tungsten T2, Tungsten T3

RE: Continue to buy SanDisk?
mj6798 @ 10/10/2003 12:46:23 PM #
Secondly, the T3 is a new device, like any new computer or electronics device. Like other first generation products there are going to be initial issues.

Nonsense. It's a $400 retail device, not a freebie beta test. I certainly do not expect there to be "initial issues", I expect companies to do proper testing, and I expect them to stand behind their products. If they don't, they are bad companies.

Why do Palm users continue to by SanDisk SD cards when it's been well known (for over a year) that they are not reliable in Palm Handhelds. SanDisk uses substandard chipsets that do not work properly or speedwise.

They are both SD-branded devices and they are therefore guaranteed to work together, by both Palm and SanDisk. In fact, not only do they both use the trademark, they are both members of the SD industry association. I have no interest in second-guessing branded products.

If Palm and SanDisk can't get their compatibility issues and trademark issues worked out, there is always Sony: Sony memory sticks work in Sony PDAs.


RE: Continue to buy SanDisk?
ganoe @ 10/10/2003 2:00:39 PM #
> there is always Sony: Sony memory sticks work in Sony PDAs.

As long as you didn't get one of the models with an unreliable slot connector. Also as long as you don't use a Memory Stick Pro in a device that doesn't support it, or expect to use more than 128MB in a non-Pro compatible device.

This is reason # 600 why CompactFlash simply destroys SD...

The Ugly Truth @ 10/8/2003 2:44:33 AM #
HandEra and CF PocketPC owners must be reading these posts and laughing their posteriors off. Compared to SD, CompactFlash is much less expensive, more robust, has real (not vaporware) peripherals and is available in larger memory sizes. It's a shame Tapwave wasn't bright enough to make one of their dual slots a CF slot. This leaves power users depending on Sony for a modern Palm OS PDA with Compact Flash.

The CLIE UX-50 is a CF slot, good screen, more memory and better keyboard away from power user perfection. The next UX will be the laptop of the future.


Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: This is reason # 600 why CompactFlash simply destroys SD...
Altema @ 10/8/2003 4:53:27 PM #
"It's a shame Tapwave wasn't bright enough to make one of their dual slots a CF slot. This leaves power users depending on Sony for a modern Palm OS PDA with Compact Flash."

Yes, it would be cute with that big honking CF slot. The SpringBoard modules were pretty robust too. Come to think of it, the Tandy DeskMate was also robust ;)

Seriously, with more physical space the CF is easier to design components for peripherals. So they will be the first choice when it come to releasing extras, as we both already know. The SD format is way more challenging. However, size becomes a crucial issue with some devices... and I don't think you will be seeing any Treos, cellphones, or the more compact handheld devices sporting CF anytime soon. The move will be towards smaller physical size

RE: This is reason # 600 why CompactFlash simply destroys SD...
Konstantin @ 10/10/2003 6:13:04 PM #
CF is legacy, and you guys are making you'r last jokes about it.
Solid state memory is much better technology and it comes at smaller size every day, microdrive is prone do shock damage, solid memory not, and its technology is maturing.


RE: This is reason # 600 why CompactFlash simply destroys SD...
BimBoy @ 10/11/2003 8:51:30 AM #
[i]"The CLIE UX-50 is (sic) a CF slot, good screen, more memory and better keyboard away from power user perfection. The next UX will be the laptop of the future."[/i]

Why turn this into a Sony vs. Palm debate? Sounds just like a troll. The UX-50 doesn't even have CF expansion. Rather it has a single memory stick slot.

RE: This is reason # 600 why CompactFlash simply destroys SD...
The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 2:25:45 PM #
[i]"The CLIE UX-50 is (sic) a CF slot, good screen, more memory and better keyboard away from power user perfection. The next UX will be the laptop of the future."[/i]

Why turn this into a Sony vs. Palm debate? Sounds just like a troll. The UX-50 doesn't even have CF expansion. Rather it has a single memory stick slot.


Since it appears that English is not your first language, I would suggest you ask someone to explain the original post to you.

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

Has anyone been willing to try an MMC card?

Beastmaster @ 10/8/2003 5:28:36 PM #
I realize that purposeful detonation of a perfectly good card is somewhat sacreligious, but is this problem capable of being duplicated on an MMC card?

This would prove a couple of things:

1) If it's a controller issue, specifically dealing with corrupting sectors, tracks, or clusters, it should be duplicated on both SD and MMC.

2) If it's an overvoltage issue, it's theoretically repeatable on an MMC card.

Ideas/Thoughts?

RE: Has anyone been willing to try an MMC card?
bmckenzie @ 10/13/2003 2:28:31 PM #
I was doing a HotSync (via a Windows XP machine; usually a Mac) when I got a message that the 16 MB MMC card could not be recognised by the device, then had to do a reset. There was a 6+ MB Kimona movie on the card that should have been backup up during the sync (web rumors suggest "large" files may be a
problem). I had used this card in an m505 since it came out without a single incident.

I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!

jca666us @ 10/8/2003 7:19:22 PM #
I love my new Tungsten T3, but it just fried my Sandisk 256 meg. SD card.

I tried moving the card back to my Tungsten T, but it's too late - the card is totally DOA. It started out taking a very long time writing to the SD card, then I couldn't HotSync data to the card, then - finally - the card's dead.

I don't care whose fault it is Sandisk's or Palm's, but in addition to correcting the problem, I'd better get a free replacement card for all my trouble.

RE: I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!
rguynn @ 10/8/2003 7:37:08 PM #
exact same issue here. i thought i would be fine because i heard of these issues with the TT but I never had any problems, until today when I brought home my T3 and within an hour my 256mb sandisk card wasn't recognized on the T3. then wouldn' format. ok popped it back in my TT and also wouldn't format with it either. THIS IS BS!!

RE: I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!
airmark @ 10/9/2003 6:49:23 AM #
did this happen when you tried to WRITE something on the card or just by having it on the device and READING from it?
Waiting for my T3 to arrive, I would like to know if it will be safe to have the card purely for reading from it (for example mp3 files) or if I'd better forget the card altogether until a solution comes up.
RE: I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!
jca666us @ 10/9/2003 8:42:38 AM #
The card died after repeatedly writing to it - copying a few files, and trying to HotSync data directly to the card.

Still, even data accesses were very slow. I'd hold off on putting any SD Card in there until Palm provides a fix or issues a recall.

I just received an e-mail from Palm Support, and they avoided the topic of providing a replacement SD card. Regardless, I hope this issue is handled soon.
-------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much for your inquiry. I understand that the 256 Meg SanDisk Expansion card was damaged when you tried to use it with the Palm(TM) Tungsten(TM) T3 handheld. I realize your concern and the inconvenience caused to you due to this issue.

At this time, Palm is well aware of an issue wherein some makes of SD cards do not get recognized on the Palm Tungsten T3 handheld. This issue has been escalated to level 3 technical agents and they are researching on this case. To help us troubleshoot this issue better, you will need to provide the following information to us:

1. Make of your SD card.
2. Serial no. of your SD card.
3. Last action performed with your SD card before it became
unrecognized.

Please be informed that Palm cannot provide an ETA when a fix would be available. Please keep checking Palm site regularly for future updates on this at:

http://www.palmone.com/


I have forwarded your comments to the appropriate department for review. Please feel free to continue sharing your comments or concerns with us in the future.

We, at Palm, Inc., are committed to providing you with the best possible service. We look forward to assisting you in any way possible.

For further questions you may send another e-mail message or use our telephone support at:

(847) 262- PALM (7256)

RE: I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!
madhatter @ 10/10/2003 2:31:14 PM #
Looks like they are trying to fix the problem.. got this response back:

"Thank you for the information provided. We have forwarded your comments
to the appropriate department for review.

A patch will soon be released to resolve the issue that you are
currently experiencing. Your patience in this matter is highly
appreciated.

Unfortunately, I am unable to comment regarding the exact date when it
will be available. You will need to check the URL below occasionally for
updates:"

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

RE: I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!
mikecane @ 10/11/2003 4:16:53 PM #
This is very odd. I have a 64MB PNY SD that I use across PalmOS PDAs in stores as a test.

I've used it in several T3s. So far no problem.

I did not write *to* it, however, just read *from*.

Is the frying taking place during write-tos?

RE: I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!
nzjss @ 10/11/2003 6:00:37 PM #
I had the same trouble - bought the shiny new T3 - pulled the loaded SD256 card from the old T and poped it straight into the T3.
There were a lot of software conflicts and hard resets and then the card was dead - no warnings. I bought the card from the same shop I bought the T3 off and he gave me a new card under warranty - the big bonus of paying retail $ at your local store!
The new card SanDiskSD256 was loaded with data from my backup file on the Win98PC and promptly had the same problem as many of you when doing a BackupBuddy VFS backup to the card - the Backup directory was corrupted & the card would not work in my Win98 box or the T or T3 - I took the card to work and managed to delete the problem directory in a WinNT4 PC - the card is now OK!

The same SanDisk SD256Mb card is working "perfectly" in the T3 after being reformatted (a very brief event) in the T3 and having all major software installed from HotSync. I can read all data and write to the card with no problem although I am not doing any VFS backups.

From all that I think that the problem is with the software on the T3 and that software's interaction with the SD slot and that different XScale Processor. I see the PocketPC crowd also moaning about card problems in devices with the same processor.

Palm have replyed to my Support complaint with: At this time, Palm is well aware of an issue wherein some makes of SD cards do not get recognized on the Palm Tungsten T3 handheld. This issue has been escalated to level 3 technical agents and they are researching on this case. Palm would appreciate help from customers to understand and isolate instances where Palm Tungsten T3 handhelds may not have recognized SD cards. Palm has received customer inquiries on this subject and is expediting resolution. I have forwarded your comments to the appropriate department for review.
So put your complaint details directly to Palm here:
http://www.palmone.com/us/support/contact/email_support.html

RE: I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!
The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 6:55:35 PM #
This issue has been escalated to level 3 technical agents and they are researching on this case.


Level 3?

By now this should have reached at least Level 5.


Why don't they just spend a few thousand dollars and hire HandEra to fix it before more damage is done? If each day of delay causes a few thousand dollars more of toasted SD cards (which Palm is going to have to compensate owners for), futzing around isn't a very cost-effective solution.

How much has this latest disaster cost Palm already? $10,000? $100,000? $1,000,000?

I think I'm going to let others have the pleasure of beta testing for me for the next few weeks. Thank you to those brave souls here who have posted their experiences and saved a lot of people from similar problems.

Maybe the Governator Arnold Schwartzenegger can help Palm...


Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: I don't care whose fault it is - FIX IT!
blue9 @ 10/13/2003 1:25:30 AM #
Great, I had hesitations about buying a T3 this month because of expenses. But now this? I will wait this one out.

It's not the SD's fault, if ya ask me.

palmatto @ 10/10/2003 11:14:35 AM #
I was gunna get a T3, but I think I'll wait 'til Palm shakes out this bug.

I don't think it's the media, because it's clearly cross brand and size, and isn't happening to everyone.

Palm should be asking for the T3 serial number too, since it's probably a T3 problem. If it's hardware, they might be able to better isolate the issue, since some people are having no problem at all.

Alternative

Palm4u @ 10/10/2003 11:41:09 AM #
Maybe Sony' Memory Sticks aren't so bad afterall !!



================================
PDAs rule the world !

It takes a worried Palm...

Strider_mt2k @ 10/10/2003 5:30:47 PM #
When is the last time Palm turned to their user base for techical assistance?

It takes a worried Palm to sing a worried song.



What serial number?

LEDO @ 10/10/2003 7:26:37 PM #
I'd love to give Palm the serial number of the 64MB card that my T3 fried. Maybe they can tell me how to get the number from a card that can't be recognized! It's not like it's printed on the outside of the card. This problem is not just annoying the the slow write speeds when used with the TT, it's starting to cost a lot of Palm owners some big bucks.

RE: What serial number?
chinchorrero @ 10/11/2003 9:25:41 AM #
My SanDisk 256 mb is gone S#(0210LR)
I am returning my T3 today.

"Life is Too Short"

Quality Control

twocents @ 10/11/2003 11:17:09 AM #
Has anyone been brave enough to open up a T3 to check for manufacturing quality? I remember someone discovering bad soldering on some of the m50x back when they were first released. It is a shame this is happening. This is the first Palm I have been excited about in a long time.

W.W.M.D.? (What Would Michael (Mace) Do?)

The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 2:32:06 PM #
In these times of uncertainty, clear, incisive leadership is required to reassure the flock that the (Palm) world is not coming to an end.

Early adopters are returning their s, SD cards are being toasted left, right and center, concerned citizens and Palm Faithful are holding off on T³ purchases until they can be reassured that their SD cards will not spontaneously combust. Still no official word from Palm addressing the "issue". No advice on compensation for destroyed SD cards. No indication as to what the problem is due to. No word on when it will be fixed.

Mr. Mace: The sheep need direction. W.W.M.D.?

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: W.W.M.D.? (What Would Michael (Mace) Do?)
The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 3:04:28 PM #
For those not familiar with Mr. Mace, he is Chief Competitive Officer for Palm and has a Ph.D. in S.P.I.N.

At the very least, Palm should have a notice on their website advising T­­³ owners of a potential "issue" and
warning them to not use their SD cards until this is all sorted out. That's the kind of proactive customer service Palm used to provide three or four years ago.

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

Does the Treo 600 also fry SD cards?

The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 2:44:02 PM #
I was going to order a Treo 600 this weekend but then I saw posts on the web about the early problems with the T­­³. Has anyone reported the same issues with the Treo 600? I guess this illustrates the main drawback of convergence devices - if something goes wrong with them, you can lose access to both your phone and your PDA...

I hope Palm gets this resolved quickly. The Treo 600 ranks with the USR Pilot 1000, TRGpro and CLIE UX-50 as breakthrough products in handheld computing. (The Palm V and T|T were also great designs, but not really true "breakthroughs".) If Palm markets it right, the new Treo should become a "must have" tool for business professionals.

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

Never buy until after 4 weeks

mikecane @ 10/11/2003 4:19:08 PM #
That's my motto. All of the rest of you with T3 problems, you have my sympathy. No one wants to see this kind of thing happen.

But the first month of any new release is when most of the big Gotchas surface.

So carp about me not putting my money down on the T3 yet -- but the four weeks grace period isn't over.

And that grace period is now extended until PalmOne diagnoses and resolves this problem. Hurry, PalmOne!

RE: Never buy until after 4 weeks
abosco @ 10/11/2003 5:30:32 PM #
Christ! You write a huge editorial based on ONE leaked photo and then don't even buy it when it comes out??

You're going to be looking at that mono screen for a loooong time before you suck it up and find out everything isn't exactly perfect. The T3 is damn well near it, so don't go cheap and buy a Sandisk or Panasonic. Go Lexar. Problem solved.

Or do you really prefer mono 160x160 and Memory Stick and are too afraid to admit it?

-Bosco

RE: Never buy until after 4 weeks
mikecane @ 10/11/2003 5:42:13 PM #
>>>Or do you really prefer mono 160x160 and Memory Stick and are too afraid to admit it?

Yeah, that's the ticket! I'll be sitting right next to Rush Limbaugh as we battle our addictions.

Eeeew!

RE: Never buy until after 4 weeks
robrecht @ 10/13/2003 3:13:55 PM #
Now THAT would be poetic justice!

Thanks, robrecht

Tungsten E issues

31palms @ 10/11/2003 5:10:01 PM #
I work for one of the office supply chains and I have had 3 Tungsten E's returned. They would simply not turn back on. I would not have believed it myself if our display sample had not done the same thing after showing it to a customer. It was so embarassing. I was thinking of buying one for work and leaving the T2 at home but I'll wait.

This could be isolated, but who knows?

"I picked a the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!" Airplane

RE: I am not a happy camper
chinchorrero @ 10/11/2003 6:44:46 PM #
I have used my 256SD SanDisk card every day for months in my TT with 0 problems.
The second Hot Sync with my T3 and my card is cooked; makes me believe it’s Palms problem.
I am not a happy camper.


"Life is Too Short"

RE: Tungsten E issues
The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 7:17:56 PM #
The second Hot Sync with my T3 and my card is cooked

Try reformatting the card with a desktop card reader or in another device. Once/if you do that, wait until Palm announces its solution (patch/recall) before you use the SD card again.


Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: Tungsten E issues
The Ugly Truth @ 10/11/2003 7:23:29 PM #
I work for one of the office supply chains and I have had 3 Tungsten E's returned.


I spoke to some managers that work for a couple of the Office supply Depots that sell Staples and they've had no problems.

As always, your mileage may vary and take everything on the Internet with a boulder of salt.


Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

It's not just big cards!

WillyBeer @ 10/12/2003 1:33:52 AM #
I just unwrapped my T3 yesterday. Initially, the T3 could read the e-books that I had on my 64MB ScanDisk SD card. However, after just a few attempts at trying to laod a very small e-book and a Word document to the card, the T3 gave up and wanted me to reformat it. I tried that, but it then told me that it couldn't recognize the card during the reformat operation. Now my m505 -- in which I'd been reading e-books for months with the same card -- can't read it either. I'm really disapointed.
RE: It's not just big cards!
xenafan @ 10/12/2003 10:41:34 AM #
Where you hotsyncing from the computer to T/3 to card to load the e-book & Word document? I ask this ? cause my partner just order the T/3 the other day for me and I'm a little feaked about this. : ) I was also just wondering if just reading from the card or taking notes ect.. on the T/3 then moving it to the card can cause it to fry?

RE: It's not just big cards!
WillyBeer @ 10/12/2003 12:39:32 PM #
I was doing both: trying to load the card via the hotsynch from my desktop with both e-books and Documents To-Go (didn't work) and using the applications on the T3 (PalmReader and Documents To Go) -- the first time it worked and the second time is when it asked me to reformat the card. Prior to the error, I could read the e-books on the card.
RE: It's not just big cards!
xenafan @ 10/12/2003 3:07:04 PM #
So I wonder if it would be ok to use a card reader to put e-books & word documents on a card then use the T/3 to view work with out frying the card? any one?

Is there reason to recall the Tungsten T3

AKTON @ 10/11/2003 8:06:42 PM #
now that I tried 3 SD cards on my new T3 and exchanged the original T3 I purchased for a new one, I can say with confidence that there is a serious problem with the new T3 SD card slot or the driver. All the cards I tried were made by Sandisk. The first card was a 512 meg bit card which I returned and got a replacement as I initially thought that there was a problem with the card. The replacement card had the same fate. I went and bought a thrid card of a differnt brand namely Lexar ( i latere realized that it was also made by sandisk) and the card also had the same problems.
the info

THE ONE

Which SD cards get toasted?

NKK @ 10/13/2003 4:37:26 AM #
I'm just wondering if there is a way to find out which SD cards get toasted by which T3s, WITHOUT actually toasting one.

Seems there are people with working cards and others that are toasting all sizes and brands.

Have you had your Palm Satisfaction Survey Yet?

nzjss @ 10/13/2003 4:40:39 AM #
I reported my T3/Card issues to Palm Support USA and today received my Palm Satisfaction Survey.
You can guess the answers (0)as I am still waiting for a solution!

We need to keep the pressure on Palm with prominent public mainstream news articles outlining these problems plus Palm now knows enough about the problem to be warning new T3 purchasers that there are issues and to be careful with your expensive memory cards.

Anyone with good mainstream press contacts?

Screens may also be a problem

bargainPDA @ 10/13/2003 10:43:13 AM #
Side by side of two T3's with very different screens.

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1678&showComments=true

Brian

Shades of the m505?
The Ugly Truth @ 10/13/2003 2:02:17 PM #
Are people now going to be asking for a Palm with a Beijing screen vs. one with a Shanghai screen?


By the way, while researching an article about Palm that I wrote last year, I found out the total number of Chinese cities is 666. Hmmmm...

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: Screens may also be a problem
mattfield @ 10/14/2003 7:38:31 PM #

I don't know, one minute people are whingeing about the battery life, the next thing they are complaining that the screen is not bright enough to be visible in the sahara at midday.

You can't have your cake etc...



Tungsten t3 screen

confucius @ 10/13/2003 12:40:40 PM #
I just read on PDA news24 that there is a problem with some t3 screen . Those screen are a lot less bright they are supposed to be.
I am interesting to by the SLC 760 Zaurus ,why not a Palm os 6 whit a clamshell design like that one.
The SLC 760 is a Linux base pda or mini-laptop,if it would have been a Palm i would already have it.
Have a nice day.

would like to have a "Palm tablet" pda larger screen input by writing on the screen

Docs to Go 6 link?

emotive @ 10/13/2003 11:36:03 PM #
Like many of you, I took the 64Mb Sandisk SD out of my old M515 and stuck it in the new T3. But having read about the SD problems, I put my card on 'lock'. This has preserved the card, but I get a lockup as follows:

Fatal Alert
MemoryMgr.c, Line:3651, Free Handle

and have to do a soft reset. Maybe DTG6 is causing part of the problem?

RE: Docs to Go 6 link?
GHaavy @ 10/15/2003 2:14:19 PM #
It's interesting you should suggest this. I've had no less than 20 soft resets and 2 hard resets (not initiated by me, I might add) since I bought the T3, last Friday... LAST FRIDAY! I have a 256MB Sandisk card, locked, in the device. DocsToGo has directly caused at least 5 of the soft resets, and 1 hard reset... very frustrating.

I'm not a smartass in real life, I just portray one on the web.

SDCard issues

MKD @ 10/14/2003 6:35:46 AM #
I lost my 1st card thanks to the T3. Now I bought another and I use 2 256 mg cards (sandisk and Panasonic)
Since hearing of the "frying" issues, I have been real carefull and keeping the card out if the T3 as much as possible. I use gps and mapopolis and it seems to get the maps out of the card with no problem. But I only put the card in when I really need it and DO NOT sync with it in. So far I have saved the cards I now have from burning. FYI

If you don't expect anything...
you won't be disappointed

MKD

Palm says thanks, but no thanks for SD serial num

mvdude @ 10/14/2003 10:03:08 AM #
Like many of you, I've been having trouble with my SanDisk SD card (512MB) getting corrupted in my T3. According to the article on Palm InfoCenter, Palm was interested in receiving SD card serial numbers and descriptions of what caused the corruption. Well, the response I got from Palm support makes it look like they really don't care about getting serial numbers anymore:

From Palm Support:

Thank you very much for your inquiry. I understand that you are unable to use the Sandisk 512MB SD card with your Palm(TM) Tungsten(TM) T3 handheld. I appreciate your initiative to resolve the current issue by providing a detailed description. However, I would like inform you that currently, we have been informed about this issue being faced by many of our esteemed customers, while using the Sandisk SD card with the Palm Tungsten T3 handheld. Palm Engineers are working on this issue. Currently, there is no patch update to fix this issue, I suggest that you visit the Palm web site regularly for updates, as all the anouncement are posted in the web site iteslf.



new SD from Sandisk?

rob_CH @ 10/14/2003 2:26:54 PM #
Hi,

has anybody noticed that Sandisk offers two different kinds of SD cards? I don't know if this is recent, but their website offers "SD Expansion Cards" and "SD Cards" (see http://www.sandisk.com/consumer/). The first one seems to be for Palm devices explicitely.

Moreover, in the description of the "SD Expansion Card", they write:"Though no one likes to think about it, data loss due to handheld or computer failure does happen. An expansion card with a backup utility such as Backup BuddyVFS can restore your Palm OS-based organizer's data almost immediately."

Does anybody know if this is related to the T3-SD issues?

...I am suffering from not ordering a T3 as long as no official solution is announced.

RE: new SD from Sandisk?
nzjss @ 10/15/2003 3:11:05 AM #
RELAX! This is just an SD card that comes with BackupBuddy VFS preinstalled to save the Palm Ram from data loss - not the card!

Keep reading the whole page including:
Advanced Features:

* Ready to go out of the box. No need to search the web, download, and synchronize
* Fully featured BackupBuddyVFS utility offers file-by-file, time-of-day, last modified backups, unattended and more
* Extra capacity allows for storage of e-mails, photos, music, games and more
* Encryption capabilities ensure data is secure, even if the card is lost

Same problem with the Zire ??

NKK @ 10/15/2003 2:58:05 AM #
Sounds awfully familiar:

Palm Zire 71 SD/SDIO Update
"This update includes the following fixes for these issues:
Some 128MB SD cards fail to read after repeated use.
Some 64MB Memory cards fails to write.
Problems using some newer Margi Presenter-to-Go cards including card not recognized, device hang or blank screen on card insertion/removal."

I hope they get a patch out for the T3 and SOON.

I'm grasping at straws here...

solb1 @ 10/15/2003 5:11:43 AM #
But hear me out...

I was going thru the file list on my Palm m515 using the freeware Filez app and comparing it with my Backup directory. And I noticed a file called SlotDriver__SDIO-sdsd.PRC, which I suspect was installed when I ran the file manager update at http://www.palmone.com/us/support/downloads/file_manager_update.html .
Is it possible that the SD card problems associated with the T3 currently is due to upgrading from earlier Palm models when users inadvertently install an incompatible driver file into their T3's?

I imagine most users who upgrade from earlier Palm PDAs would just sync desktop-to-handheld and trust in a higher power.

Like I said, methinks I'm grasping at straws!

RE: I'm grasping at straws here...
Altema @ 10/15/2003 1:51:08 PM #
That file is in ROM on the T3, so it would not be a problem unless the RAM copy was over-written by a bad version.

RE: I'm grasping at straws here...
solb1 @ 10/15/2003 9:05:24 PM #
Well, it's just that the file appears in my Backup directory on my desktop. Also when I brought up the file list on Filez, I ticked off the option to show ROM files, and the file in question still showed up i.e. so maybe the file is not in ROM?

Anyways, Palmone came back to me with following reply when I asked them about this:
"Thank you very much for your feedback. At this time, Palm, Inc. is well aware of an issue wherein some makes of SD cards do not get recognized on the Palm(TM) Tungsten T3 handheld. This issue has been escalated to level 3 technical agents and they are researching on this case. I do not believe that the failure of the SD cards on the Palm Tungsten T3 handheld is accountable due to an incompatible file being installed on the Palm handheld. "

"However, I do appreciate the input provided by you. It is always beneficial to us when our esteemed customers end up providing us with vital information which could get very easily verlooked by our Technical team."

The gospel truth, I guess... until further notice.

Many thanks for your views, tho'.

RE: I'm grasping at straws here...
Altema @ 10/28/2003 11:29:43 AM #
I noticed this myself and verified that it is an older file that was loaded from my T1 or M515. I notified the makers of BackupMan to help with their investigation. I know their app is not the problem, but they seem to be working hard on getting to the bottom of the problem.

Is Panasonic SD Card safe?

wingng @ 10/15/2003 7:14:17 AM #
I just got the T3 before this problem came up. I had bought a Sandisk card, but I haven't opened it, so I'll return it. I am wondering if I should risk getting a Panasonic SD Card, either 128 or 256 MB. Has anyone out there have any problems with it so far?

RE: Is Panasonic SD Card safe?
sam_in_silver @ 10/15/2003 5:34:12 PM #
I have a 32 mb card, a 128 mb card, and a 256 mb card. Mine are secure digital. I have had no problems whatsoever, and I interchange them between a Kyocera I330 and the Tungsten T3, and that old piece of garbage the Tungsten C (which I *HAVE* managed to sell).

RE: Is Panasonic SD Card safe?
sam_in_silver @ 10/15/2003 7:35:10 PM #
I think "too soon" is what might describe my last post. It is too much of a pain in the ass to get through the web site to tell Palm, so I just hope they read this.

I had NO problems with the sandisk cards UNTIL I decided to upgrade my PalmDesktop. At that point everything fell to pieces.

SD 128, Secure Digital Card, Sandisk device id
SD128_68D159C2430207

I cant get it to format on my PC using the PNY interface, and the format never ends if I try to format it on my PDA.

The PDA is a Tungsten T3, and my PC is XP home edition.

Having used the cards heavily since I got the T3, and the problem started immediately on installing the latest Palm desktop, I suggest that the new desktop or the new hotsync are a factor.

Simon



SD Card Problems with T3

Tech Geek @ 10/19/2003 8:29:21 PM #
I just bought the T3. I initially had the PNY 128 MB card, which seems to have been working good. But now I got the Sandisk 256 MB card and I have been getting the "0x2098 Sector that was being accessed is bad" error messages. Sounds like everybody else is getting the same problems. Do you all think this is a problem with the Palm unit or the maker of the cards?

New T3er.

perhaps a new solution

dknight @ 10/20/2003 12:21:15 PM #
My story is the same as almost everyone here. Tungsten T3, Sandisk 256 meg SD card, and the ultimate outcome of repeated card failure. Even after buying a USB SD card reader and reformatting after every failure, the T3 corrupts the card. I tried installing the patch for the CPU slowdown bug I’m sure you’ve all heard about, and I still get card failure. So, I buy the T3 as soon as it is available, sell my TT, and now what I have is a device I cannot use for work. I can’t move native office file to or from the card without risking failure. I sent my email to Palm, got my “canned” response. I’m not going to settle for that. They claim they are aware of an issue where some cards might not be “recognized”. They won’t even publicly admit there is a serious risk of hardware damage. Some people posting here have not been able to recover with formats. If they won’t listen to the early adopters, if they ignore the pleas of the power users, if they fail to recognize how much this disappoints me as a long time Palm brand user, then I suggest we start talking about three words they might recognize. Class action lawsuit. I bought this palm, like every one before it, to use for work. Now I am looking for other brands to replace this one. The T3 has two serious flaws that we know about right now, and Palm has not acknowledged either. I see two possible solutions to this. 1. Palm owes us a software patch to fix these problems, and replace the damaged card(s) or refund the current market value of said card. 2. Palm replaces the defective handheld and card(s) or refunds the current market value of said devices. We are being treated unfairly and deserve better. I know Palm sees me as only one person, one voice, and one complaint. I am convinced that is how they see all of you as well. There is strength in numbers and I purpose we use our numbers to get more than the typical “canned” response. I am going to start to make contacts for representation for myself, if anyone has feedback or suggestions I would appreciate hearing it. If you do not understand my frustration, then look at the $400.00 device you probably have near you and ask yourself, is that the solid, dependable device Palm advertises, and does it do everything Palm claims. Mine does not.

T3 owners: RELAX.
The Ugly Truth @ 10/20/2003 1:38:09 PM #
They won’t even publicly admit there is a serious risk of hardware damage.

That's because if they word their statements carelessly, the next thing you know, a bunch of idiots will try to sue them, using Palm's "admission" of a problem as the basis of the suit. Welcome to America, comrade.


I suggest we start talking about three words they might recognize. Class action lawsuit.

Spoken like a true American...


I know Palm sees me as only one person, one voice, and one complaint. I am convinced that is how they see all of you as well. There is strength in numbers and I purpose (sic) we use our numbers to get more than the typical “canned” response.

Alone, we are weak. Together, our powers can defeat the evil kung-fu of Shaolin Master Palm...


I am going to start to make contacts for representation for myself, if anyone has feedback or suggestions I would appreciate hearing it.


Suggestion: be patient. The problems will be dealt with very soon and you will receive the appropriate compensation.


If you do not understand my frustration, then look at the $400.00 device you probably have near you and ask yourself, is that the solid, dependable device Palm advertises, and does it do everything Palm claims. Mine does not.

We feel your pain. Really. But I suggest you read your warranty very carefully. Then you'll understand why lawyers run America.

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RE: perhaps a new solution
dknight @ 10/20/2003 3:47:29 PM #
I appreciate your feedback. You even managed to inject some humor into my day. But as much as I hate to admit it, my pda is a big part of my business life. I didn't buy the top of the line Palm device the day it came out to simply manage phone numbers. I do a lot of work on my T3, and the features it boasted above the TT added functionality. So, when you say relax, be patient, I wonder if you really understand my loss. I use my palm. A lot. I have lost a lot of productivity in twenty days due to lost files on the SD card. I used my TT and the very same SD card I now have problems with for a year with no problems. Imagine flying to a meeting, on the way you make changes to your project you just spent months on, only to realize on arrival it is gone. Relax. Be patient. That was my introduction to this problem. Its not like I lost a couple mp3s. There is a lot of stress when you have to make a presentation with no notes. I guess its my fault I'm so dependant on the silly thing. Lesson learned...

RE: perhaps a new solution
The Ugly Truth @ 10/20/2003 4:46:47 PM #
So, when you say relax, be patient, I wonder if you really understand my loss. I use my palm. A lot. I have lost a lot of productivity in twenty days due to lost files on the SD card.

I do understand how you feel - while for most people losing files is merely an annoyance that can easily be attenuated - assuming they have made a recent backup with a card reader - it's another matter to have your PDA fail when you most need it at work.

Two lessons here:
- always back up critical data
- early adoption + power usage = tempting fate. Can I interest you in something in the CLIE line, dknight-san?

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

SD Card Erasure

palmtealnut @ 10/22/2003 3:29:10 PM #
I personally believe the problem is with the SD Cards, NOT PALM. It is not just the Tungsten 3. If the Tungsten 3 has problems with 256 MEG or SANDISK cards, that can be avoided by using a smaller card. But recently, on a Palm 505, and after having used 2 Sandisk cards and the PalmBackupCard for 2 years, I loaded a 64 meg card -- and lost everything. No ability for Palm to read or format, and the PC Card Reader couldn't either! There was a file fix available from Palm involving a "FileManager" download for the 505 -- but MY POINT IS THAT IF YOU WANT reliable SD Cards, use Lexar. I wrote to SanDisk and looked for help on the web. Somewhere along the line it was suggested I peepl the foil off the card, which can be conductive and mess things up. I did so -- and found a HUGE "DING" in the plastic surface itself; the card had been damaged in production and just COVERED UP WITH A STICKER!! I purchased a Lexar and have had no problems -- and information transfers faster, too.

Let's not be in a hurry to nag at palmOne; be more careful which disks you buy and I recommend Lexar.

Best regards to all/Paul

RE: SD Card Erasure
dknight @ 10/22/2003 5:50:16 PM #
"I used my TT and the very same SD card I now have problems with for a year with no problems."

From my earlier statement. Sure, I agree, maybe its not palm...NOT. The card worked fine in my TT before, so today after the card failed again from moving files around on the T3 I formatted it, put it back in the original TT and moved the very same group of files around on the very same card OVER THIRTY TIMES without failure. Then I put it in the T3 and moved a couple files with promptly killed it. Then I went to Best Buy and tried this in every palm os device they had available. Anyone want to guess which display unit corrupted the card? I'll save you the trouble, it was the last one I tried and it was a T3. There is now absolutely no doubt in my mind that the card is not at fault. Every one says that sandisk makes crappy cards, but it works in every other device I've ever tried it in, including different mp3 players, cameras, as well as palms.

RE: SD Card Erasure
petew @ 10/23/2003 12:17:57 PM #
Same here, 128mb card in a T1, used for 9 months on a daily basis. Insert into new T3, bang, dead as a dodo, won't even format :-(

Hama sd card

dinoca @ 10/26/2003 3:24:35 AM #
Excuse my poor english; I am italian (Palermo).
After that my TT3 toasted a 64mb sandisk I purchased and stressed a 64mb sd Hama(??? Toshiba ?) made in Taiwan.
It works very very well, no problem.
Exceptional results at VFSMark test:

File Create: 764%
File Delete: 1214%
File Write: 65%
File Read: 748%
File Seek: 1311%
DB Export: 307%
DB Import: 1230%
Record Access: 928%
Resource Access: 914%

VFSMark: 831


SD Card Damaged by Tungsten T3

gredos @ 10/31/2003 12:14:02 PM #
WHO IS GOING TO REPLACE THE CUSTOMER'S CARD DAMAGED BY THE PALM TUNGSTEN T ???

THE CUSTOMER SUPPORT DOESNT RESPOND!!!

PLS ADVISE

Palm release bug fixes

rikster @ 11/6/2003 9:05:54 PM #
Palm have released a fix for the SD card problem & high number of interrupts issue.

I have not tried these yet, as I am still holding off buying a T3 until I hear that these work !

http://www.palmone.com/us/support/downloads/tungstent3/t3_update.html

RE: Palm release bug fixes
Bakedon21 @ 11/6/2003 10:27:02 PM #
Strange. I downloaded and installed per the directions. When I run the update utility it claims "Incompatible device: This tool will not run on this device"

Yes I have a T3. I also have the T3 Optimizer installed but I disabled it and rebooted before installing the patch.

RE: Palm release bug fixes
Hippocrates @ 11/6/2003 10:44:23 PM #
The bug fix for the bug fix will be released in two weeks.

The bug fix for the bug fix for the bug fix will be released in four weeks.

The b...

RE: Palm release bug fixes
just_little_me @ 11/6/2003 10:57:35 PM #
the wrong date was used in the patch (it checks for devices before a particular build date) - there will be an update in the next few hours according to palmone.


JLM

RE: Palm release bug fixes
Hippocrates @ 11/7/2003 1:12:41 AM #
the wrong date was used in the patch (it checks for devices before a particular build date) - there will be an update in the next few hours according to palmone.


JLM


This really inspires confidence, Palm. Way to go. Looks like nothing is going to stop this company from imploding. I'll give them one year - max - before they're history.


Palm's T³ fix - no admission of responsibility!

Hippocrates @ 11/6/2003 9:18:26 PM #
http://www.palmone.com/us/support/downloads/tungstent3/t3_update.html

Their lawyers must have written this:

palmOne, Inc. encourages all owners of the Tungsten T3 who plan to use SD cards at any time to upgrade their handheld using the software update below. This update aids in the transfer of data to certain SD cards, in addition to other updates.
palmOne recommends that you reformat your SD card after applying this software update. If the card has been or continues to be unresponsive after taking both of these steps, please contact the SD card manufacturer directly as there are problems with the card beyond palmOne's control.

The T3Update.prc is a software update for the Tungsten T3 handheld which, in addition to aiding in data transfer to SD cards, reduces unnecessary audio interrupts which may appear to effect performance.


Lexar 256 Fixed
TechGuy @ 8/26/2005 8:39:59 AM #
My Tungsten E no longer recognize the card. I belive the card was useless, but when I plug it in a card reader I saw the files are there..

So I did a scandisk to the SD and errors were found. After putting back, the Palm still don't recognize the card.

I reset the Palm and..... The card was recognized normally again. I put back my mp3's and all works fine.

What happened?
I remembered to put some files in the SD one day before, and unplug the reader before stopping it. So the card got corrupted. Then the Palm detected the card corrupted but it still keep in memory that, no matter the card was fixed.. weired thing :P

Maybe this help

Error 0x2908 on Palm TX w/ BackupMan

Slappy044 @ 1/1/2006 9:42:48 PM #
I got my Palm TX about 6 days ago and bought backupman yesterday. I used the software w/ an older 128mb FujiFilm SDMC and all worked fine. I wanted to get more space for mp3s and just today bought a sandisk 1GB sdmc. I just now synched my palm to my pc and it errored out. While syncing the sync manager software on the pc stopped and the handheld appeared to continue with the message 'synchronizing documents'. Then it times out saying the connection was lost and not all documents were synched. Next I checked BackupMan's ver. and it was 1.54 (I'd just downloaded it to upgrade). I ran it and then got the error "System backup FAILED. A sector that was accessed is bad. (0x2908)" pops up.
Should I take the sdmc Sandisk card back to the store??
Tom - slappy044@yahoo.com

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