Comments on: palmOne Announces the Tungsten T5 Handheld

Friends and neighbors,
I have just fired up the gas grill to cook my crow. Augghta be really good if I can get the feathers out. :-(

"Aint gonna happen" ... yes it is.
"PalmOne aint suicidal" ... yes they izz.
"This aint the T5" ... gulp.
"Selling short on my credit card" ... I should have.
etc etc.

Yes, this "T5" offers some nice functional improvements, but what a collossal slap in the face after months of anticipation as well the availability of Palm OS Cobalt. My T3 is not in any danger of appearing on eBAY soon.

This is the biggest disappointment in my affiliation with Palm handhelds. I really really was excited about the T3 successor. I can only surmise that P1 has given up on handhelds for smartfones as others have suggested.

My only hope for advancement is that P1 has something actually special awaiting with OS6. Uggggggggggggh.

I'm just sitting here waiting on Brutas now.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Ryan, are you sure about the battery power rating. It's not listed anywhere on palm's site. As a matter of fact there is no mention of battery life anywhere, not even the pdf spec sheet. This worries me.

.....could you give us the "official" corporate explanation as to why WiFi was not integrated into this new T5 model? Even using the WiFi SD card, it will cost another $129.00 That brings the total to $528.00 not including other necessary accessories!

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!

Well the coffin is sealed for Palm personally. I really was hoping for a winner here as Palm's OS does have something special about it, but function precedes form and I have to have wifi for work, so adios Palm and hello Dark Side (aka Dell X50) :(
No hard feelings, eh.

What they're essentially selling is a T3 without a slider, more memory, and an (admittedly neat) USB drive emulator. Not enough change here to even consider letting go of my T3. Cobalt might have made it slightly more attractive... but probably still not enough to get my business.

Here's to hoping the Treo 650 will be more interesting.

Oh ya, and thanks insulting my intelligence by trying to sell me a $400 dollar flash drive!! :P

This would be a downgrade from my TH-55... With Sony out and Palm not innovating..... Is it time to turn to the dark side???

"The Tungsten T5 is the first new model from palmOne to feature the Multi-connector, a new common connector for palmOne products. Going forward this will be the new standard palmOne connector."

Yeah? For how many months? Some of us still remember this line when it was used in reference to the "Palm Universal Connector."

I have a T/E. I didn't buy a T3 because of poor battery life and I didn't like the slider.

However, I want a powerful PDA (T/E was the first PDA that I bought that wasn't top of the line).

So the T5 is good (not great) for me. I plan to upgrade in November. I hope the battery life is greatly improved, and I am looking forward to the larger non-slider screen and big memory. Nice touch that the T5 can be used as a flash drive also.

I also don't mind the current OS as I wasn't looking forward to all my apps breaking.

I can understand the disappointment of those with the T3.

What I don't like is--
- no wifi
- yet another new connector
- same form factor as T/E?
- seems expensive at $400. Seems more like a $325 PDA.

The T5 will be a great device for those who have a non-wireless, non-Palm OS 5.0 device or non-color device. If you have a T3 or similar device you will be hard pressed to find a reason to go out and grab it. I love Bluetooth and use it daily. I would love to be able to use WIFI when the opportunity presents itself (WIFI is faster than Bluetooth in many cases). I am glad to see a full 320x480 color screen without the slide. I (being a T3 owner) will have to wait until the Cobalt and dual wireless device is released.

Carl Brooks
http://www.palmloyal.com

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

Type to you later,

Carl
http://www.palmloyal.com

As a consumer machine, this fails to excite me. No WiFi, No Camera, no voice recorder, square dpad...

For a business machine though, this should be great. Lots of internal space to store big corporate databases, decent battery, big easy to see screen, bluetooth for wireless printing and of course, the failsafe memory.

I've had clients lose an entire days worth of data entry from accidently letting the batteries die on their palms, so the flash memory alone is worth the price in my books.

As for everybody moaning about what's missing? This model wasn't aimed at the I-want-everything-and-the-kitchen-sink crowd. It was aimed at the IT department manager who wants to deploy a unit that is easy to support and offers a good way of capturing data. Looks like a pretty good fit to me.

No Wifi, old OS. Nope I think it's time to move on. I have been with Palm since the first Palm Pilot came out (turned in the Sharp ZR-5000)and never looked back. But this is so much money for so few features. I currently have a Tungsten C and it's been good to me, but I want the larger screen. However, the Wifi on the C is great, sit on the couch and read the news. For $400 I would expect wifi, bluetooth, and the new OS. The Dell X30 at $297 keeps trying to lure me away and maybe it's time. I would say that over half of the users I support are now using Pocket PC devices. Microsoft always wins in the end, but maybe there is always a reason.

Ok, here is why this so called upgrade is rattling my chains.
Palmone:
$400.00 gets you this…..and I stress this as I’m not sure what the heck to think of it.
Say you want wifi? Another $129 bucks thank you very much.
Ok now we have the Palm device everyone was expecting coming in around $530 bucks.

Now let’s take a look at Pocket PC
Dark Side:
Dell Axim X50 (should be released before the month is out) $500 bucks.
We get wifi, Bluetooth, VGA screen, SD expansion and even CF expansion.
You won’t have a card sticking out the top of your device.
You can get even cheaper expansion with CF
The size is actually a bit smaller
Integrated Intel 16MB graphics adapter (gaming powerhouse here)
Contrary to popular belief around here, Windows Mobile 2003 SE stock is just as stable as a Palm OS

Oh and almost forgot. We have to make this fair so I’ll throw in a 256MB flash drive that I’m sure you can get for about $30 bucks after rebates just about anywhere on the internet.

Inovation or ripoff. You decide. 

While this is a nice unit, and definite a step forward... it is a baby step. It is NOT what I'd expect from the Tungsten T line... nor what I'd expect for $400.

I have to echo the other comments: No WiFi? No OS6? And (dare I say it)... no slider?

Hmm.

I really think that Palm could have done tremendously better here. This should've been the Tungsten E2, not the T5.

This has been not only anticlimatic, but a serious let-down. I'll probably get one... but only because my T3 was lost/stolen. Or maybe I'll just get another T3. :(

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/">http://vtbsd.net/safer.gif">

I bet this T5 has a case made out of that same cheap plastic that the TE is made out of.

RYAN/ADMIN - How come Palm gave you no test unit for review????????

p.s. Thanks for all your hard work on this site.

http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2004/10/tungsten_t5_tho_1.php?page=all

T5 IS TE2. I own a T3 and excited to get a T5 as long as it has adequate update, even only with a higher capaciy battery. This "T5" is basically a T3 screen on a TE. I have been a Palm user for 4 years, this T5 really disappointed me.

'Upgrades', T3 to T5:
Insignificant processor increase
Insignificant memory increase (arguable)
Improved battery life
Cosmetic GUI changes
Non-slider design (positive for some)

Downgrades, T3 to T5:
Loss of ALL UC accessories
Loss of high-quality stylus
Loss of voice recorder
Loss of LED charge indicator light
Loss of front-mounted speaker
Loss of vertical flip cover
Loss of quality case material
Loss of organic button layout, rounded d-pad
Loss of slider (increase in pocketed size, elimination of quick power-on method)
Loss of voice recorder hard-button (commonly programmed to launch "applications" a.k.a. the launcher, similar to Sony back button functionality)

Impact on T3 Users Looking to Upgrade:
-Little to no reason to upgrade because of hardware downgrades
-Little to no reason to upgrade from OS5.2 to OS5.4
-Less reason to stay with palmOne because all UC accessories will NEVER function with future palmOne devices

Hi there,

It really is too bad that Sony is gone as they have always pushed Palm to progress. But this is a disappointment to me and I will not be upgrading to it.

I've owned Palm IIIxe, V, m5050, T1 and Sony SJ-30 and Handspring Visor Deluxe.

I was eagerly awaiting for a unit like this with WIFI but since there will be none; I'm going to skip this $400 device. I refuse to shell out another $100 for an external WiFI card that (total price $500+!) for what is essentially a TE2.

AND the worse part is that their TREO 650 (when it comes out) will probably not be available in wide release for another year!

Palm has missed out on this user for ANOTHER upgrade cycle. If they put in enough innovation, I'm one of those guys that would willingly pay for a palm EACH year.

They just incorporated a SD card into a palm unit... I like the new form factor (no slider) as I've had tons of problems with digitizer drift due to the slider construction.

C'est la vie...

Kevin

After viewing images of the T5 for the first time, I found myself wishing for the earlier T3/T|C hybrid hoax or one of Pat Horne's photoshop jobs. My head is still spinning from disappointment, as I lay in a fetal position crying myself to sleep. Pleasant dreams.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

Surely, they're reading the first reactions as much as the rest of us. They can't be too happy. There's only a tiny minority here who seem to think the T5 is a worthwhile acquisition.

Are you getting any reaction from them, Ryan?

My life is over - just kidding. Seriously, just wait, we'll see one with all we want. I can wait.

The T5 seems to be a great disappointment, but don't lose heart, as I am about to reveal Palm's secret strategy which has been disclosed in a vision to me.

First consider the facts.

1. Palm could easily have put Wifi into this new handheld. The technology has been there since the T/C.

2. R&D is very costly, so Palm have only been pretending to be doing it.

3. Palm and PPC now run on the same processors.

Now turn to the Bible. 2 verses are key
"The whole world lies in the grip of the evil one" 1 John 5v19, but "The earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" Habakkuk 2v14

Here's the revelation:
OS6 will be an upgrade to PPC. Palm have infiltrated Microsoft, Dell, Compaq etc. On Jan 1st 2005, all PocketPCs will begin to secretly connect to the internet and download OS6. PPC users will wake up and find their machines have upgraded to OS6. There will be no way to reverse this upgrade.

Why do it this way? They are saving huge amounts of money coz all the research and development will have been done by others. It truly is a master stroke.

So don't lose faith, brothers and sisters. It is always darkest before the dawn!

I have a T3 with severe digitizer problems that appear un-correctable (but I also have a Staples protection plan) and have been waiting for this release to upgrade to a new Palm for free. The plan costs about $30 each time I upgrade, but it has allowed to to go from a T1 to a T3 not only for free, but I got a refund in the process. And now I'm ready to finally get rid of my problem digitizer unit. I hate the idea of a plastic case, but I've found that the slider is more of a hassle than a help, so I like the new design. I'm wondering if I should upgrade to the T5 or finally combine my phone and Palm and get a 650 when it appears. Any thoughts? Its probably like comparing apples and oranges, etc. And speaking of Apples, it has always seemed to me that for a Mac user, Palm was the PDA of choice. I almost can't imagine getting a PPC. Are there Mac users out there that also use PPCs?

Thanks.

Well I give palmone, like 10 more seconds to start screaming "APRIL FOOLS!!"...

My late z71 crapped on me, and i'd been waiting the entire week for the t5 to be announced to know if it'd be worth waiting for, or if i would have the $$$ to afford it.

Well, after these news I'm already on google doing some research on dell axim's and compaq ipaq's.

Nice meeting you palmone, and in case you're needing, I have a couple of extra nails to put in your coffin...

Now I really miss Sony...
I still refuse to accept that P1 can do this to us (or to themselves...) Surreal...

Please don't wake me - allow me to dream on.

I bought a Clie TH55 almost a year ago for $350 ($399 SRP). It had 320x480 screen, vga camera, ms pro slot, integrated wi-fi, voice recorder, mp3 player, and fantastic battery life. I had it stolen last week and I was hoping that the T5 might be my new replacement however what a dissapointment from Palm. Almost a year later and this is what Palm has to show?

One of two things will happen now. Either I will defect to PPC or I will find a refurb TH55 in order to hang out with Palm OS during it's last few dying gasps. I've been a Palm user since my Palm Pilot Pro and I must say I cannot believe how badly a company can completely screwed up a market that has almost been handed to them on a platter.

Mirosoft will never beat Palm because they did a better job with PPC. Microsoft will beat Palm because Palm gave the market to them. I hope someone at Palm corporate is reading these posts and gets a clue fast. I've been the most loyal Palm user for all these years and I feel as though I am being forced to the PPC platform because of Palm's complete ignorance.

Felt good to get it off my chest;
Q

Hello fellow disenchanted Palm users :-

Here's a site to help you choose your new VGA PPC:-

http://www.vgapocketpc.com/

Look ! - you can get a 624mhz Dell, with VGA, Bluetooth & WiFi for just $99 more than a PalmOne TE2 (Ooops, sorry T5).

Again, my message to PalmOne regarding this T5:

http://theforbidden-zone.com/sounds/youmaniacs.wav

This is the TE2 and a fair price is $199.

I'M NOT KIDDING.

I have tried to remain loyal. I have been to counseling to get over my hatred for Microshaft and the PeePeeC. But this is the last straw. PalmOne has been unfaitful one time too many.

It was fun while it lasted and I tried. I really and honestly tried.

The loss more yours, Palm, than mine.

Personally I think the T5 should be classified as a Super Zire. It uses the accessories of the 72 according to P1.

I currently have a T2 and have upgraded P7-M500-505M-TT-T2.
I dont mind the slider, but wouldn't miss it either. I am waiting for a palm that has dual sd slots, 320x480 rez, and wifi. I would accept BT2 because it is supposed to work with exisiting 802 ap's. But I haven't heard of any that work.

I am not even considering the T5. What it does, I already have software that allows the same thing. Flash memory, duh, again I already have it with sw. Altho it would be good if the palm itself would support it like the pc does, i.e. run programs from any directory. And yes I know there is software that does this. But it does not work reliably.

As far as the voice recorder and camera. Well lets just say I am an IT person. Besides it is already on my cell. I consider it bloated hw. Speakers, thats all I need is another device make noises. I have mine turned off, (saves on battery too).

Extended battery, duh, give me a replacable battery and I will buy 2 or 3 and have a better extended system. Course would have to have an independant battery charger too.

As far as going to a WinCE device, no thanks. I have to support MS for my PC. I won't give Bill anymore room to screw my IT life up than nessecary.

IMO

I suspect - as others have touched on this is a rushed product launch - the kind of fumbled, rushed out in desperation product that smacks of corporate management who are not 'on the ball';on the the same planet as many of their customers - or I suspect many of their employees.

The quality of the PalmOne website launch pages make it look like this product's development has not been anything like on time and hence the lack of proper T5 product'run through tours' and the duff information- there's not even a 3D view yet. They have actually got a built digital camera being listed in the specs on the T5....(somehow I don't think there is one)...here's the link to check :
http://store.palmone.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1865331

The fact that the briefing given said that the T5 will be available from early November and the Palm1 site says ' AVAILABILITY:
Usually ships in 7 - 14 full bus. days.' further suggests all has not been going well.

It does indeed seem a clear Palm E2 type product with it's lack of a voicerecorder.

I also think that putting the form like a TE - one on the worst models for quality control problems in their line up if web reviews are anything to go by - is a gaffe too.

Well even I think PPC might yet get my custom one day. The writing does indeed look on the wall unless Palm 1 don't wake up big time. They'll never catch up with the likes of Nokia et all on the phone business cos even when they make a winner like the treo 600 etc they waste the benefit by no-one being able to get one until it's getting old....If you don't make & sell enough where's the money coming from ? When they make something so good but don't make enough for the market.....nails & coffins...spring to mind

Still everyone hated the Zire & Zire 21 & look how that sold.
Time will tell.

I'll have to upgrade to a TT3 before they work another marketing wonder-blunder and discontinue it....

Frankly, I am kinda tired of reading people bashing P1 for this unit. Sure, it's not revolutionary, but it's an improvement, especially on battery life. I don't really think the T3 needed a whole lot of improvement, (again, battery life) and I don't think this was intended to "unseat" the T3. I'm in the (seeming) minority of people who don't need WiFi, don't want WiFi and frankly could care less if P1 ever makes a WiFi radio on their devices. I get along just fine with Bluetooth and my Motorola v710. I can browse the Internet, get my email, and do everything I want Internet-wise.

So I'm willing to admit that Dell devices still may have higher tech specs, but honestly, until they can run PalmOS, I'm not the slightest bit interested. PPC sucks. It's not stable, it's a resource hog. It has more moving parts, and having supported both PPC and POS, can say without hesitation that POS is still far superior.

In conclusion to my long rant that nobody will read, I'm _not_ going to say "Way to go PalmOne!" but on the other hand, I don't think this is a miserable failure. I think that everyone's expectations were simply too high, and mostly unreasonable. If P1 had come out with a device with WiFi, people would complain about battery life. If it had a voice recorder, people would complain that it turned the device on in their pockets. I feel bad because I think that Palm couldn't have satisfied people after having such a long break since their last release. And to those of you still reading, no I don't work for Palm. :)

Arthur

Palm Pilot 1000 > Palm Pilot Professional > Palm III > Palm M100 > Sony Clié PEG-T415 > Palm T|T3

OKay so what have been the 2 biggest issues in the Palm community over that last year?

1. PalmOS 6
2. WiFi

And what does Palm not give us in their new flagship model? Neither! Uuuuuuh how much I hate you guyz for that!

Let me explain. I still have my Palm M505, I was one of the first to buy one and was rather disappointed when Palm came out with the Palm M515 a few months later. Eversince then I fowed to never buy a new model straight away and eversince then I have been holding out for a PalmOS 6 device.

I've been waiting for 4 years now! I want a PalmOS 6 device with WiFi. Why I'm not buying a PalmOS 5 device? Well I think PalmOS 6 what PalmOS 5 should've been.

Lets have a look at this new flagship then.

* Flash memory instead of Capacitive memory (or RAM as most people say).
Nice idea. Although I have a few questions. First of all Flash memory isn't nearly as fast as capacitive memory. What about load times and such?

Also Flash memory has a limited lifetime. After a x number of writes it starts to degrade. Although this is acceptable for a, lets say digital camera, its not for a Palm device.

I use my Palm everyday. Make notes, organize calendar, look up phones numbers. These are all write operations which cut into the life of the flash memory. How long is this memory going to last? Can we replace the internal flashdrive or can we throw the device away once the memory is toasted?

* The "Multi-Connector"
I can remember that when Palm came out with the Tungsten and Zire they swore that their new Universal connector would be universaly used on all devices. Why oh why would they put a new connector on this new device then?!

* The OS and Launcher
Whats so new about PalmOS 5.4? Except the new launcher? Why didn't they put OS 6 in this device?!

* Battery
WOW! Just WOW! 1300mAh blows everything away! Very very nice!

* Slider
The slider is gone yaaaaay!!

* The price
Sorry to say so but looking at the current market this device is way overpriced.

I just hope Palm will get their act straight and give the customers what they want. This device is a huge disappointment, althought the extended batterylife is a warm welcome. I'm sure somebody will come with a launcher which looks exactly like the launcher on the T5 so you can make your T3 look like a T5.

I'm going to continue my wait for a OS 6 device with WiFi.

Plastic case? "E" form factor? No voice recorder? Still no WiFi? OS6 still not ready? No slider (sorry, I'm one of those who love the slider form factor)? Features I've been using for years from 3rd party providers? Another cord to manage?

This is a sad day for those of us who have been waiting for a year to see the next step in the life of the T line.

Sorry, PalmOne. You really blew this one. I started with a Palm and I've upgraded with you each step of the way (including surviving some quality control problems along the way).

This announcement shows too little awareness of what this user wants and needs.

My days as a Palm user are numbered.

Mac user, marketing communications specialist

Having been the victim of 3 sceen breakages on a well liked but too fragile Palm IIIxe sometime ago one reason I've stuck with my m130 - so far- amongst others is it's reliability and robust hard to break screen and case etc.

Lovely and big this new T5 screen is but is it going to stand the bumps and knocks ? ( I guess if it's the same as the TT3 screen TT3 users can tell us ?) Thanks

Simply put, in the words of the great Jay Sherman, "IT SUCKS!".

I feel betrayed by PalmOne. This unit is the WORST upgrade in the history of Palm branded devices, and I believe it to be worst than the M505 change (at least, back then, the M505 had a color screen in comparison to the Vx).

There is no way in hell I'm trading in my T3 for this piece of trash.

My prediction: Q4 will bring huge losses for Palm, despite the release of the Treo 650. In 2005 PalmOne will be bought out by a cellphone manufacturer.

_____________________________________________
IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

I'm one of those guys who stays a little behind the leading edge. I like to wait until others have worked out the kinks and the device has dropped in price to something I can at least rationalize buying.

I bought a HandEra 330 that way. It was down to $200, but was still "cutting edge" in some of its features. It "only" lacked color. And so I waited for the fabled color HandEra. Even when HandEra decided to pull out of the business, I still kept looking for that "color Handera" equivalent. I kept telling myself that someone was bound to make it eventually. Then I dropped my beloved 330 and was forced to upgrade to an already "old" Tungsten T2.

I think that color HandEra is finally here! It's just being called the Tungsten T5. But I have to agree that PalmOne probably should have called it the E2 and priced it lower. Had HandEra actually brought their color unit to market, this "T5" would likely be two years old already. It would just have a different company label.

Incidentally, HandEra probably would have gotten it right and at least given us dual card slots. And who knows? Maybe they would have included WiFi.

the T5 is a total disappointment.
1) no WiFi
2) use old OS

I will buy something else for my Christmas present.

I have owned Palms since the beginning and this is the worst "upgrade" I have ever seen. I have also never seen so many pissed off Palm users. This Palm looks cheap, is low on features which is why they made the pathetic attempt to sell it a a usb drive as well as a Palm. Lame. Dell has a VGA model coming out in a month or so. Thats my next PDA.

First of all just to get it out of the way... What a disappointment... I waited months on a purchase for this?

A little about my prospective... Im both a Palm OS user (since the Pilot 5000) and a Palm OS developer. I have sprint for my phone service provider making its impossible to buy a bluetooth phone if I wanted to (no CDMA bluetooth phones out there, there was one for a very short while but thats another story).

I currently have a Treo 600 (Handspring), Tungsten-T, and Sony NR-70v. For development I really wanted a 320x480 device with the latest OS, and since Wifi exists at my home, work, and many other places I frequent... its a must too.

Outside of the Sony TH55 there hasnt been a model with these specs, and with Sony fading from the US landscape I was looking to palm to fill that need.

For a new product release, over a year in the making... Palm has stubled! Unfortunately because of this I personally wont be upgrading and It sounds like many other wont as well.

The T5 is a weak product... and would be more aptly placed as a T-E2 albeit the memory makes the price too high for that. I dont like it but I can see where it came from in the design process... consider the following

- OS6 handles Wifi & Bluetooth simultaniously.
- OS6.1 just released is supposed to offer an updated UI
- Cameras arent good for corporate users (Security)
- Without Sony, palm is god in palm world again, so why innovate

So with this in mind, they would want to wait for OS6.1+ to get the new UI otherwise the model is outdated quickly, and since they would like OS6 for smooth bluetooth+wifi they bail and go with Garnet and No Wifi. The have always stuck with tungsten=corporate, and Zire=consumer so the camera is out too... so whats left... be innovative with memory, and battery life and bring the cost to make a unit down to increase profits... the T3 has to cost alot more to make than the T5.

Comparisons to existing palms
Since im not going to be updating to this model, and given the other choices I might end up doing some pocket pc development before too long... but in any case heres a couple models which had done more than palm, and are over a year old.

Sony Th55
This Sony model included 320x480 display, Camera, and Wifi in a form factor about the size of the T5. And it was available last year at this time for $399. It didnt have the builin 256mb but given it was last years model, you could add a memory card and be on your way for the same price If sony was still selling them here. The only down side to the TH55 was its used of the low MHZ sony handheld engine CPU, which was ok for business apps but died in gaming.

Tapwave Zodiac
This palm doesnt get alot of attention, but its top end $399 model already does much of what the T5 does, and more. Start with a 320x480 screen, bluetooth, 128mb ram (largest memory until the T5), analog dpad for games, aluminum case, accelerated video, 1500ma battery, AND the ability to use the internal memory as a builtin memory card. To top it all off it comes with TWO SD card slots, and if you dont need the memory you can buy a 32mb unit for $299. If this device had Wifi i would have bought one months ago... and still might. Its an innovative piece of hardware (a friend has one so ive used it extensively) that doesnt get a fair shake sometimes because its billed as a 'game' machine.

Pocket PCs
Palm One had really watch their back, there are alot of Bluetooth+Wifi Pocket PCs and a few 640x480 screen devices are coming out now... combine that with the use of .NET compact framwork for development (use desktop tools to port PPC apps) and PPCs from Dell etc being cheaper than the T5 and PPC just might hit critical mass on applications and dominate. Id hate it since im a long time palm advocate... but PalmOne doesnt seem to be on the ball here, and may indeed be giving up the handheld market just as Handspring did.

I guess for now ill likely pick up a Tapwave, it would be a no brainer if a 3rd party (read not palm) wifi card was available... but still I think it would take builtin wifi to let me sell my Dell Axim which right now I use exclusively for web access.

Palm One needs to do something... but It might be too little too late already. People waited a long time for palms new release... and its really lackluster... Its about the calibre of the T2 over the T1. No spash at all, just a model refresh. The confused 'lack of slider', 'cheaper case', and old technology with innovation.

So it looks like P1 has confirmed what I've been saying all along. Following Sony's flight from the US market in PalmOS market, Toshiba's departure in the PocketPC market, P1 has essentially developed its swan song for the PDA market. The T5 will be remembered as the last of a line.....a sad day for us all.

The good news is that convergence 'smartphones' seem to be improving after every iteration, and even the Treo 650 will have some nice things.....

While I agree that this unit should not be named the T5 nor considered "top of the line," and that it's overpriced, I've noticed one truly ODD comment as I glance at these numerous (174 so far) posts, and it's appeared a number of times.

People complaining about the plastic case...

Then they talk about how they'll go get a Dell PPC for less with more features...

Apparently, they fail to realize that ALL Dell PPCs come with plastic casing. They're made to look like metal (just like the T5), but they're PLASTIC.

Virtually all recent HPs with the exception of their new x4700 series are plastic, too. My iPaq 4155 is plastic, although it has more features than the T5.

If you want to complain about a plastic case for $400, feel free, especially with this feature set. But realize that the PPC you've decided to get is most likely plastic, too.

My old Sony Clie T665C, she aging quick. So, I've been holding out for a PalmOne Tungsten, and waiting for the T5 to come out, hopefully with Cobalt.

So, having seen the T5 specs, and liking the slider on the T3: can anyone talk me out of buying a T3? Or give me a good reason for going for a T5?

The battery life issue isn't a big deal to me -- if you can live with a Sony, you can live with a T3, I figure. And I plan to use this PDA for the things I've always used a Palm PDA for:

- Datebk5
- MP3 playing
- Dozens of Palm apps I've used forever
----
So, tell me what I'm doing wrong -- I encourage you!

----

"I'm warning you ... if you kill me, they'll just send 008!"

Jeff Meyer

My God, the Comments keep multiplying like my cold bacteria!

I'll be at TechXNY tomorrow (attention stalkers!).

If the TE2 (I *refuse* to call it the T5!) is there, I will give it a major fondle and write it up for PIC.

Right now, two things:

1) It has a FILESYSTEM! Yippee! (I had to get that out!)

2) It will work with the current WiFi SD *after* a driver update? WTF have they been doing? Why isn't the update out NOW? (OK, then -- will it be out by *November 3rd*?)

All the Comments I'll have to read offline today (in my *properly* named TE!).

I was waiting and ready to spend $399 again. Sorry but I won't wast it on this so called T5. POI&*YG F^FOIV

IN THE BOX

•
Tungsten™ T5 handheld

•
Stylus

•
Flip Cover

•
USB sync cable with Multi-connector

•
Power adapter (108-132 VAC/60 Hz U.S.; 100-240/50-60Hz Int’l)

•
Desktop Installation & Software Essentials CD with NEW Tutorial and User Getting Started Guide in PDF format

•
Read This First document

•
Graffiti® 2 sticker

...if PalmOne had simply called this the Tungsten E2 and priced it somewhere within the realm of sanity.

They didn't have to lose a dime of their R&D. Just paint "E2" instead of "T5".

The problem is, this has dashed the hopes of the high-end users who ache for "the best". If this is "the best", we have a right to be worried, and upset.

If this had been the E2... then the block of consumers for whom the E catered to would be happy as clams. Meanwhile, the T-users would perhaps be getting more impatient, but would still feel that the best was yet to come.

Instead, we seem to have reached a dead-end. It's as if Palm has admitted they've given up. And it shows... this thread alone lists a bunch of people who've abandoned Palm because of this debacle.

Plastic. No cradle. No WiFi. No OS6.

No sale.

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/">http://vtbsd.net/safer.gif">

Hi there.

It seems PalmOne is seeking to shut out the Mac populus little-by-little. Yeah, I know Mark/Space is taking. I would like to have the ability to use the new features--Drive Mode and File Transfer with my Mac. Can it be done? Does Mark/Space hace a way to accomplish that? I sure hope so.

Matt A.

On closer inspecton of the T5 specs, I cant see the battery life improved that much if at all... Heres how I see it.

- 1300ma battery is a plus over the 1100ma battery in the T3.
- Flash mem takes more power to read and especially write.
- T5 uses 100% flash ram so its holds contents.
- New Processor is reputed to be lower power.

Im thinking that whatever power gains are made by the 1300ma battery and processor will be taken up by the additional power requirements of 256mb of Flash memory.

Sure it could be revolutionary and have battery life lasting alot longer... since no power at all needs to be refreshing ram when its off... but im betting if it was an improvement Palm would be parading it around since its pretty much their only cool new feature.

I really don't know how you guys can joke about this. I haven't owned a Palm device since I traded up from my Palm III to a first gen iPaq and currently a Jornada 568.
I haven't really been interested in Palm for a while now. Sony started perking my interest but obviously that went bye bye.

With this news and seeing so many people on the thread saying they are, as some of you say, going to the dark side. I feel sad for Palm. I know a few PPC users who really are laughing at this and all I can do is shake my head. The forward momentium, if any, that drives any progress in the Pocket PC is linked to Palm. If we lose Palm we all but assure that the PPC will become stagnant. Beyond that choice is a good thing.

Yah I can't laugh at this. This is something between sad and pathetic. I've got some hope in Palm simply because Dell doesn't have a brick and mortar presence anywhere. This leaves HP as the primary competition and since their current offerings, are pathetic in quality and price (Who here is willing to spend $650 on a new PDA?) they could sell well this x-mas in retail stores. But for the tech savey who doesn't need to walk into a Best Buy to get an idea of what PDA they are looking for, Palm is screwed.

This is a really sad day. Unless something really changes in the next 6 months or Palm sells those new Trio's like a bat out of hell we could be witnessing the end; or if nothing else Palm could turn into Apple with a niche market sustained by the handful of Palm zealots out there. I really hope it doesn't come to that. :-(

So now Palm wants to gouge us by having to buy new accessories since the "universal connector" is gone. Great Palm. Get a clue...alienating your existing users when they have alternatives is not a good business plan.

After reading this, I hope TT5 is the new mid level class PDA of palm and by the end of October we get a brand new line of Zinc|Z with OMAP display, WiFi, Palm Cobalt, and interchangeable battery. If this doesn’t happen, we are watching the Palm death. They are abandoning the thing they put the name on, expecting the smartphone save their asses. But realize there are bigger and stronger beasts to beat. If I think in a PDA, i name it palm. If I think in a phone, is Nokia or Eriksson or Motorola, but never in PALM.
Even this happens, I still don’t get why anger all the loyal palm community not calling this TE2.

PS: ok remove the OMAP thing, which is way too much whishing.

I know, my English is horrid.

there is a new poll on the homepage regarding the T5 announcement. check it out!

http://www.palminfocenter.com/pollresult.asp?ID=44

You have to be kidding.

The T5 has gotten BIGGER, gone from metal to PLASTIC, and has NO WIFI!!!

I would guess that the3 Pocket PC crowd are all laugthing their pants off at the release of the T5!

Some great new features, but no real evolution (except backwards!).

Adam

This is hilarious. How many people hanging out at the PIC have cried "Gimmie a T3 without the slider!", "We want more memory!", "We want a 480x360 tablet", and "Dump the T3 button layout", and "Lose the UC!"

Be careful what you as for :(

Me, I'm keeping my T3... just ordered a replacement for my current refurb due to a digitizer issue. Yeah, I was holding out to see if the TE2 would tempt me, but since that will probably not happen, I want to at least have a T3 that works properly.

I firmly believe that this should have been the TE2, but palmOne changed the name just to raise the profit margins.

THAT being said, I can see exactly they would release a device like this.

Non-slider: We keep asking for a non-slider tablet style with T3-like specs.

Processor: Incremental MHZ upgrade, but includes more advanced power management. Actually, the T3 is already fast, not much return in moving from instant to slightly-faster-than-instant.

Memory: King of the hill AFAIK. How many other devices have more memory?

Button layout: I like the T3 button looks, but after almost a year, I still have to look at the picture on teh buttons. The TE2 is a definite improvement in ease of use.

UC: The UC has been useful to me, and I need serial. However, the new connector's audio/video output capabilities facinate me. Docking station with stereo and full size monitor anyone?

Cradle: The p1 website says the cradle is included, but then, it also says it has the universal connector. It should have had a cradle.

Case: I don't like the TE case. However, the T3 case is partly plastic, and definetly more expensive than a TE style case.

WiFi: Here, they did not listen to us. What they seemed to have listened to were marketing surveys which said WiFi was an item used only ocassionaly by the masses, used heavily by a few, and not used at all by some. Based on this, they made WiFi optional. What they should have done in making it optional, is make it bundled with the WiFi card, and offer the TE2 without the optional WiFi card at a lower price.

Battery: This is one area where I think the TE2 will be better than expected. Standard RAM sucks battery even when the device is off. This is the reason that you better get your iPaq to a charger within 4 days after a critically low battery. The same goes for the Tungsten, even though you get a 21 day breathing space before kissing your data goodbye. Flash draws power to change bit values (writing), and how much power is used to write depends on the flash memory itself, but that is all. There is no battery drain related to memory in standby So you get rid of the constant 24x7 power draw. On top of no standby draw, you go from a 900Mh to a much larger capacity, then you get a more efficient processor. I think this unit will be a good performer in terms of battery life.

I hope the mass tech mass media sees this thread and publicizes our collective anger.

www.CNET.com , www.theregister.co.uk/ , etc.

Please do what you can to make all the tech mass media outlets aware of it.

With all this flak coming from Palm loyalists (some former loyalists)maybe palmOne will rethink the marketing strategy they have with the T5 and come out with a modified T5 like they did with the Palm V which was upgraded to a Vx. They could call it the T5x. They could add wifi and voice mail. Nothing else. Leave O6 for a later model and make a BIG splash with a new generation PDA with O6. Just an idea. Are you listening palmOne?

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!

If they wanna go down the portable hard drive path... maybe just maybe .... I am searching now but just maybe

TT6 TT7 or TT8/9 or what ever its called

Will include a REAL HARD DRIVE....

ok ok ok I know I am dreaming cause they will never ever get to that stage with a product like this...

just think if the T6 dare I mention this is next years / Novembers product will anyone wait or trust PALM ONE???

BTW it would need to have a METAL CASE......

METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL

"There's something happening here; what it is ain't exactly clear"

To me this situation has the smell of plans gone badly wrong, not a planned disaster. Others have pointed out the evidence: review units still not available; the pre-announcement of the product, something which often badly hurts profits; the garbled information on web pages, etc.

Certainly one possible explanation is that P1 wanted the T5 to be exactly like this AND they are late with it. However given the late ship, it seems more likely that P1 scrambled and stripped features in order to meet their announcement date.

What was the root cause? Only a Palm insider could tell us, but the possibilities are many: overruns on other projects starved the T5's development; management incompetence put the T5 way behind schedule; far along in the development cycle it was discovered that the original design was so flawed that it had to be abandoned; fatal flaws were found in a critical component, which might be Cobalt 6.0 or hardware, or there was a shortage of some critical part.

Ultimately PalmOne is responsible for their own actions. However without evidence it isn't clear whether this flawed release is deliberate or due to incompetence or bad luck.

http://www.pepper.com/products/pepper_pad_2_specification.html

-- it'll be exhibiting at TechXNY this week, for those of you who can get your body to NYC.

Frustrate palmOne *and* Billg by getting Linuxed!

What they are going to do with it???
Please hold your angry answers in your mouths, i'm really interested in REAL things!

____________________
Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(

I'm just seconding what everybody's saying: this is a TE2, not a T5:

- Where is OS6?
- Where is Wi-Fi?
- Where is sound recording? (for a business model it's a must)

So, is there any reason for one to buy a TE2 (T5) instead a T3, which now is 50 bucks cheaper? Flash drive? No thanks, I already have my memory key. New battery? Perhaps, but it's not enough to make it worth. New OS improvements? No, there's nothing really new (I'm already using FileZ on my T3 and it rocks!)

T3 is still a better deal, both for people buying a new palm or upgrading from a previous model.

I'll keep my T3 for more one or two years. By that time I hope that PalmSouce will have PalmOS 6 running on any PPC of my choice. Am I dreaming? The best OS (Palm OS) with the best hardware (PPC)? Perhaps...

See you there!!!

Dimitri S.

There are threads on 1src and Brighthand just like this one:

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=69444

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?threadid=110965

People do not like this thing. I wonder if Palm checks these forums...

Hey, do you guys remember the original Zire? Everyone complained that it was overpriced, and barely had specifications (no backlight, 2 megs of RAM, TWO buttons, ancient 16 MHz processor, etc) It seems like PalmOne's reduction policy to gain more profit has been applied to Tungsten T5!

"Plastic case. No cradle. No WiFi. No OS6.

No sale." - SRemmick (by the way dude, that's a funny quote)

I have been a long time palm user - since the origional Pilot. I then had a Vx and didn't upgrade again until the Tungsten|T. I even upgraded to the T3 within a year of purchacing the T! However, like most of the posters here, be passing on this product.

As a user, this obviously does not give me enough USEFUL new features to make it a compelling upgrade - especially given the price point - over the T3. Likewise, I am sure I will not be selling these to current T3 users.

From a marketing perspective, this really should have been branded as an E2. But it's confusing, because it includes some fairly high-end features, such as the new memory upgrades, processor, battery, and even the connector (though it's different). Yet it leaves some out, such as the voice recorder, metal case, cradle, and well, the connector (since it's different). The slider is not much of an issue either way; I personally think it is a needless, though functional, complication. The lack of a metal case is especially problematic. It's hard to convince someone it's a $400 device if it doesn't FEEL like a $400 device - especially if the finish doesn't stand up well to daily use (that blue ruberized coating on the Zire 72? don't get me started...).

So - If I can't see myself selling these to the T3 crowd, who will I sell them to? Zire and E users bought a value model - this price point is way out of line for them, even if the added components do justify the cost. I'm afraid that over all, palmOne will have a loser on their hands. On the other hand, how many different modles did Sony produce over the product life span with a complicated field of mix'n'match features? I hear that in Japan this is a successful strategy - niche devices with short shelf life is the rule there. But clearly not a recipie for success here. Still there are quite a number of happy clie users (or unhappy, depending on how you look at it). OK, so maybe not a loser, but definately not a winner.

This reminds me of the year when the m500/505 was released. Then, as now, the bar of expectation was very high, and these pair of devices simply did not deliver enough of what Palm users were looking for to make them compelling upgrades - especially at the price point. I recall that the market for these devices was fairly soft for new users, as well (correct me if I'm wrong).

But, eventually they did get arround to releasing a great line of products again, and I have some faith in their ability to do so in the future... just probably not until spring or fall of next year...

But allow me some input on that future palm wishlist. Wi-fi is no big deal to me... surfing is something I save for the big screens and BT to my phone is fine for my e-mail and a few info lookups. But I still prefer grafiti to grafiti2 and it would be nice to choose (this may be a legal thing still, but I thought it was a closed case). I also really, really, really want an OLED display - especially if it means the end of the screaming screens!

All the best.

Very interesting to read another perspective:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=289795&sid=b15d77ec1e773087850c87bafe353084

Imagine what will happen if it is a TE2 and priced around $250-$300?
There will be no scolding and jumping to the dark side...
It is amazing that a $100 difference and a name change can make such a big differences.
I am urging P1 to change the name and price it accordingly.

Back to drawing board now, adding a larger battery and wifi to the current T3, and sell it as a T5.

What is the marketing genius in P1 doing? This is exactly as Toyota putting a camry badge on a corolla and trying to sell it as a camry.

So there are a few of us - some of whom have posted several times in the almost 300 entries since this story broke - that aren't the least bit happy with PalmOne's new device, the Tungsten T5.

There's a world of posted dissatisfaction with build quality, speed, battery life and interface of a device that only one or two people have actually touched.

People are screaming about the lack of a voice recorder, dropping of the Universal Connector, and the fact that the T5 uses the TE's form factor.

There are a couple things that I've learned about Palm as they move from device to device though.

One is that you can't please everybody, and you can almost never please the high end of the user base.

At $99, the Zire was, on this very forum, a dog. But it went on to become one of the best selling, not Palms, but PDAs of all time at that price point. The Tungsten E was also not highly considered. But look at its performance in the market, even without Wifi, Bluetooth and voice recorder. (I don't use the voice recorder myself; I re-mapped the button to zLauncher's Favourites list. It's *very* handy for swapping between apps...)

Another thing I've learned is that with every new device, the Palm people make things simpler and collapse widely used third party features into the basic device.

How useful do you think applications like Filez, CardExport (especially this application!), HappyDays, and many third party launchers are going to be now? Does anyone remember most of the Hackmaster hacks we used to use a long time ago?

Do you think anyone's going to *have* to be grabbing an SD card on the way to checkout with their T5 box in hand?

Docs To Go was wrapped into the bundle a while ago, and now at version 7, what PPC can claim to have better compatibility with the desktop copy of a Word, Excel or PowerPoint file? Further, you can carry an actual copy of the document with you because your PDA is also a flash drive.

Further still, you can sync mail and read the attachment that came with it because of the integration with VersaMail.

Coming to think of it, you don't have to go through the long sync process as much to transfer files to and from anymore, now that the drive mode exists. It's something that I'd started using Card Export to avoid. Now it's built into the T5.

As a new user, also becoming obsolete is SplashPhoto, for starters, replaced by palmOne Media. And if you want to, play MP3's from flash or drop in a bigger SD card and run a few tunes using RealPlayer.

If the new flash area works just like an external card, and I expect that it will, it also means that apps that use that type of file space won't break. So, I can protect my application space still with apps like BackupBuddy. MobileMoney will keep working just as expected. I can keep reading offline web content with Plucker, and store large plucked websites and content in the data space. This is more important to me as an upgrader than WiFi is. In fact, truth be told, most of us aren't so jacked into the Matrix that we can't wait to get back to a desktop or laptop to get on the 'Net. (And on that note, Neo and gang needed a wired phone to get back to the real world, despite the fact that they could communicate using wireless... something to make the philosophers go "hmmmmm"...")

PalmOne listened to the market with this device, and I mean the mainstream market, not the top 3% that posts to online forums.

The Tungsten E was a big seller for them, and the tablet form factor has been extremely popular since the days of the Palm V. Fewer moving parts translates to a simpler assembly line too, and easier user maintenance. (I've not opened up a PDA myself since my III-series devices... My T|T is just a little bit daunting. I'm afraid that if its screen broke, it would be quite like Humpty Dumpty...)

The popularity of the SD slot and the cry for more memory prompted the 160MB flash drive, I think. In fact, now you can have more memory without giving up the SDIO slot, meaning it can be used for industry standard accessories like the Presenter to Go.

The fact that the Power To Go and third party products like the 9-volt battery charger existed necessitated the 1300mah battery and the "memory that doesn't die when battery does," to give the T5 a possible Native American name.

The Tungsten T5 provides what the *majority* of people *need* out of the box, and they can add whatever else they want afterward.

Some of you guys want to head to the PocketPC camp. That's your choice, and good luck there. They have their issues too, and they're not minor either. Battery life is a biggie. Application compatibility is another. Simply getting their devices to not eat their Word and Excel documents is a major headache on the PPC side of the fence. Accessory lifecycle? Hello! Try to get a two-year old iPAQ to work with the current crop of current iPAQ accessories, will you. I'm really sorry that the three of you that bought the Power To Go won't be able to use it on the T5, but you won't be able to use it on your new iPAQs or Axims either.

Actually, for all of you looking at PPCs, there may be an opportunity here for a software developer - data migration. And you can solicit plugins for each obscure application that these guys use on the PalmOS side, and plugins for each similarly obscure application that exists on the PPC side. I'd look to write it myself, or contract it out, but the support requirement would be a nightmare given how quickly people seem to complain nowadays.

Honestly, given the sum of its features, I like the T5. In true PalmOne fashion, the price will start high and will come down as sales begin to trickle in. Or will stay high as demand dictates. I'd expect that after Christmas, you could get one for as low as $325 plus shipping at some of the lesser reputable stores.

'Nuff said.

-P-A-T-C-H-W-O-R-K-
A Trini Palm Nut
III - IIIe - IIIx - M500 - T|T - ??

Come visit Trinidad & Tobago at
http://www.visittnt.com
http://www.triniscene.com

Anyone notice that the Tungsten T5's connector looks exactly the same as the upcoming Treo 650's? It's universal connector version 2 haha.

Hi,
Just wanted a few comments on whether to choose a T3 or T5, as I want to replace my TE, since I hate the plastic case showing my fingerprints :(

From my point of view the T3 seems to be the best choice cause of the metal case, cradle and the $50 rebate...I don't complain about the lack of WiFi since I don't need it anyway...

The only worry I have about the T3 is, as I read this thread, the digitizer problem and the slider? Is the slider such a hassle?

Please post your reflection on this and whether you would buy a T3 or T5 in my situation - thanks :)

I really like the specs and features of the new Dell PPC, but I have always been a Palm user, and I simply won't spend lots of $$$'s to figure out that I hate the PocketOS...give me a Dell with the Palm OS :D

Please post your reflection on this - thanks :)

/Thomas

From the spec sheet:

SUPPORTED DESKTOP SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
• One available USB port and PC running Windows 2000 or XP

So I'm curious. The desktop software will not work with Win98? There's a pretty large base of Win98 users out there still.

I am not surprised that most are unhappy with this new offering, as most seem to be power users who prefer to still carry a separate phone. So, you all want amazing capability from your PDA.

I would be better served by the next Tréo device, having become addicted to the Tréo 600, and you might be, too. Why? Well it seems like the Tréo series is now PalmOne's top technology device.

Still, everyone's bringing out the hot issues:

1. It's the battery, stupid! What good is anything if it goes flat on you? If you want to carry around backup batt devices, go ahead; it shows your true dedication to your device. The fact is that in the beginning, these devices were designed to do PIM, and that was it. To do the multi-media stuff we all want to do now, better get a "T5" or a Treo 600, or a PPC.

2. What upgrade? An upgrade to me may not be an upgrade to you. If I had gone for the T3, I might upgrade, if only for a decent batt, but can understand why others would wait. I guess if you have a big budget, you can go for every upgrade that comes along. Those coming from an older Clié, for example would be thrilled with the "T5"...

3. What technology? Yeah. That was a great thing about the Clié, the app that let you "see" it as another drive on your PC. About time for P1. Glad they also figured out that if the batt does go flat, we don't want to lose all our data updates !!! Late, yes. Great, yes.

4. Defect to PPC? Here it depends on whether you like to spend your entire weekend on your PC/handheld. I personally shudder at the thought of going back to the PPC side, and having to port data, find corresponding apps, etc.
There is always a point at which technology starts to consume more time that it saves you, and I have the feeling, from my PPC experience 3 years ago, that that would be the case if I ever "went back".

For me, I think my PDA/smartphone should serve me, not consume me. So, I am thinking more and more that only smartphone products are really reliable enough and "plug and play" for me.

But for stand-alone, the "T5" is not bad if you don't need Wi-Fi. Add the Wi-Fi SDIO, and you are into rip-off territory! This "T5" is really meant for working with documents, with occasional Bluetooth connections using your mobile phone.

Why are no review units ready yet? Is PalmOne hoping tons of sucker preorder BEFORE reviewers can actually get their hands on this pig and fully reveal its flaws?

This pig still isn't ready YET? They need another whole month? What the hell have these rocket scientists been working on for the last year? They took a T/E, dropped in a T/3 display and added some memory.

And they pulled a T5 with the Treo 650 as well.

Just to let you guys know that many forumers of the Philippine Palm Users group are also disappointed with this T5 unit, here's our link: http://www.mapalad.org/viewthread.php?tid=4372

If we can post the world's Palm Users Group here, then probably CNET or Palm can hear their loyal Palm users going berserk!

Yeah.. T5 is a joke. I am still using my Palm m505. I have been waiting for "the one" ever since. I am not even a power user, all I want is just something that makes sense. All I want to use PDA for is the address book; watch movie, listen to music and browse Internet on-the-go.

- a internal SD, kinda like internal HDD. Doesn't one more SD makes more sense then your "new" flash RAM?? a 512MB SD is under $50 and data will remain in SD too~
- a nice movie and mp3 player so I can store them in my internal SD. How about a mp3 player that can show the CD album cover?
- WiFi (b/g) for web browsing.
- BT to use BT headphone
- VoIP features so I can do VoIP wirelessly. I know holding a big screen PDA to make a call is stupid. This is why I need BT for the BT headphone
- Cool looking unit

That's it and this is all we need for PDA, a small portable device that can to do things that we love to do everyday. All these technologies are available for so many years so why Palm can't include them?

---
http://www.vkick.com

I got to lightly fondle it.

I didn't think it was a brick at all. In fact, it is sleeker than the Toshiba VGAed PPC was/is. In fact, it is also *thinner* front-to-back too!

The screen is gorgeous, but so what? It's still PPC OS. I'd rather have the TE2 (aka T5).

I wasn't keen on the touchpad, either. Perhaps I'd get used to it -- if *palmOne* did something as adventurous (I hope they don't!) -- but the fact I couldn't find a *tutorial* for it in the device itself was disappointing. (Yes, I could've asked hp, but why do that? What's "intuitive" about having a rep nearby?)

Also saw the Pepper Pad. It's like a foot long, no kidding! I don't think it'll fly. The split keyboard is too damned confusing.

Did the "expo" in about an hour. It gets more pathetic each year.

Last week I received my Palm Tungsten C. I love it! Built in Wi-Fi, built in keyboard (that REALLY WORKS GREAT!), everything that ......well, that this T5 is not. And I got it for $299.00. Whatever is going through the P1 peoples heads, it just does not add up! This device does not have a different design, no wi-fi, keyboard, cradle, cobalt(this is the one that blew me away)- it's as if P1 did not listen to anyone on this one.
What a rip off!
HEY PALM-HEY-YEA..YOU! GET A HINT!

Brief history: Visor Deluxe>Handspring Treo>Tungsten E

I'm new here so I don't know if the T|E got as dumped on when it came out. FWIW if the E's case is a thin layer of metal on plastic you could have fooled me; in 18 months the metal didn't wear through anywhere (while it did get dents and scratches).

My E went missing for about 2 weeks and when I found it while housecleaning it was dead. The typical liquid crystal mess usually associated with a cracked screen (though it's intact), and the SD card was fried. No idea what happened.

I use Win2K at work, OS X Panther at home, and Debian Linux in both.

As I see it these are my ARM-based choices on how to spend $400:

1. The T5 which rewards PalmOne for coming up with yet another incompatible "universal, no really we mean it this time" interface, an SD card stuffed inside pretending to be general purpose flash memory, the current OS with no news on upgradeability, and no real sense of investing wisely in a reasonable time between hardware upgrades. Future OS X support no longer considered a priority. SDIO, the Springboard-killer considered the wave of the future despite remarkably limited development in this arena. Cobalt an OS looking for a machine to run it on.

2. A 128M Tapwave which is too big to fit in a pocket, doesn't advertise its OS specs or flashability, and runs the slowest ARM processor out there (200MHz) but does support CF devices and has Bluetooth onboard for what that's worth. Looks like the second coming of Handera to me: great idea married to tiny base of third party developers equals no sales.

3. Some PPC monstrosity, this time with a microOS still in its infancy, designed mainly to play Windows media and sync with Windows apps, and the added bonus of Microsoft's OS quality control. CF support a given. OS X support also a commercial solution. Same issues with future upgradeability.

4. Some SymbianOS monstrosity which brings back the glory days of proudly developing BASIC games for the Sinclair ZX81 and zero technical support this side of the Atlantic.

5. Sharp Zaurus 5600 running neither microOS but full-blown Linux with not J2ME but a real JVM. Hideable keyboard. CF support means microdrives could hold a full distro, or even through WiFi become a fileserver. Simultaneous CF/SD support. MOST importantly, Open source OS and applications, including OS X sync support. Reflashable OS for other Linux distros. Potential to run full office type applications with Microsoft interoperability. Strong likelihood of OS upgradeability for the next three years *regardless of Sharp's intervention* because Linux is not a bleeding edge CPU OS. Onboard compiler/development tools which can be used to develop for desktop platforms as well. Future dependency on Sharp: SMALL. Accessibility to Linux development community: LARGE. Bottom line: Real computer in your pocket.

Do the math. It's either #5 or just fork over another $260 and replace the E with another E equipped with a 256M SD.

The T5 aka TE2 is an over-priced underachiever for the high-end line of Palm Powered PDAs. Too bad.

I just picked up a Dell Axim X30 with 624 MHz and integrated WiFi for $297.

PalmWHOEVER: Get a clue.

The abscence of the slider is a welcome feature. Bluetooth is great (though I'm more into Standard Wi-Fi over Bluetooth), though you have to shell up another $130 to add Wi-Fi Access via a Wi-Fi SDIO Card. I'm somewhat a little bit turned off by the Tungsten E-oriented design, though. I should also point out that the full-time Hi-Res Plus and larger battery are also welcome features. The new connector is also a plus, although I have to test drive one of these babies.

The lack of a Voice Memo is going to be a turn-off to people who desire a Voice Recording feature, but those who are still holding Palm Vx's from a long time ago might find this one to be worth the investment, but at $399, you can actually buy 2 Tungsten E's.

Once again, I find myself having to draw some sort of idea in order to create a high-value Palm-Powered Handheld for today's world.

Oh, the Built-In Flash Drive is also a welcome feature.

Overall, I expected better from PalmOne. Oh well, I'm just gonna stick with my PalmOne Tungsten C for a while, even though I'm gonna just test-drive the Tungsten T5.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

Over the past few months as rumors circulated about the 'next great palm' sales of their existing models, especially the T3 likely slumped.

Perhaps palm has a backlog of T3 devices in a warehouse somewhere and they wanted to move it... releasing an updated Te and billing it as the successor to the T3 will make alot of users get off the fence and buy a T3 since the T5 doesnt meet their expectations.

This may even be a regular ploy of Palm One over the years... The III/IIIe/IIIx/IIIxe era or the Palm V/Vx and Palm 505/515 all were periods of very minor upgrades to freshen their line without offering anything new.

If this is the case, in a few months after the T3 inventory has been reduced we will likely see a new product. Using past releases this would likely be in Feb/Mar/April timeframe. Just as the IIIx/IIIxe paved the way for the IIIc and the m505/515 blazed a path for the Tungsten-T its possible the T5 is a mere hiccup on the way to what we are waiting for.

The big question is... with all the choices out there now... by the time palm gets it right... will anyone care.

My decision is to stick with my T3, which is only 5 months old. No other option is even remotely attractive.

QVGA Power PC: Give me a break. Mostly plastic, with screens half the size of T3.

VGA PPC: Just beginning to be released. PPC users are complaining Microsoft got display support wrong in the OS (too big = not enough displayed on screen). Even if that's not the case, any advantage over the T3 is not worth $600-$700, and throwing away all my software & accessories.

T5: Too many negatives, not enough positives to make it worth the money. For a fraction of that $400 I could add the T5's new features to my current T3. Would have to spend even more to upgrade peripherals.

So all I have to do now is wait for the T6. Has anybody heard any rumors yet?

The AvantGo survey revealed the following "top 12" must-have features of an all-in-one dream device:

1. Calendar/contact list
2. Easily syncs with PC
3. Great battery life
4. E-mail/messaging
5. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth
6. Compact size
7. MP3 player
8. Phone
9. Large screen
10. GPS locator
11. 20+ gigabyte memory
12. Camera

http://www.palminfocenter.com/mobile/mvs.asp?ID=7140

I'd like to interrupt this kvetchfest to give some thanks to the site PDA24/7 for breaking the embargo on the TE2 (aka T5).

palmOne did a very good job smothering leaks about this unit, but somehow PDA24/7 was able to sidestep p1's security measures and give us the scoop.

Thank you, PDA24/7, for keeping the spirit of leakage alive!

Come on, show your gratitude too!

Total dissapointment in my opinion. I can't believe I waited a year for this - year old -technology. It makes my Tungten-T seem even more appealing and refreshing! Where is the nice metal case, the wifi, OS6!? This is a TE2 not a T|T5! Perphaps if it was released that way it woudl have made more sense, way more sense! The proverbial nail in the coffin for Plam if they don't wake up and start listeining to their customers. They have taken three steps back in creativity. I agree with others when Palmone did not lose business to PPC they gave it to them!

What happened! did they lose their creative ummphh when handspring was consumed and Sony left the scene?

I hope they wake up real soon and please their longtime customers or I for one will have to take a leap on the dark side.

Geez, do these units get around! (But never to me!)

http://tinyurl.com/4wa86

Check out the screen snaps too!

Since most Palm customers are very disappointed about the T5 not having WiFi and OS6 (among other things), along with the many posts that the PalmOne folks really do read most of these posts, can the PalmOne team come clean as to why these features were not placed on the T5, what the status is of OS6, and will OS6 be offered as an upgrade for T3 and T5 customers?

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but some may not know this. There's lots of info on the T5 available on the FCC site - including the User Manual:

[link removed]

I really am surprised that Palm did not include WI-FI in their lastest Tungsten model, though it's nice to know that the SD WI-FI card will work! I'm wondering about the "Multi-connector that is referred to - Are we to assume that the cradle, power suppies, keyboards and other acc. won't be usable with the T-5, over the years I've purchased several palm pilots & since the palm V series, you could use the cradles & power supplies with the newer stuff.
They should have offered a choice of WI-FI or Bluetooth....Unless you have a compatible phone, it's not much use....

I thought that the Tungsten T5 will be run on OS 6 with Bluethooth and WiFi built-in, but it's seem that PalmOne had cheated us and it a profit making company of all. Why I said like that? Can anyone differ the spec of T3 and T5? They are same machine, although T5 offer more RAM and ROM....

And I don't think that T5 offer multitasking functional, so..... useless.

PalmAddict quotes Ed Colligan, President of PalmOne "the T5 is the ‘first step’ in creating a solution that we believe is needed in the marketplace. WiFi is part of our ongoing plans…but was never intended for the T5."

He says that the Tungsten C has WiFi and is only a "moderate" seller.

A Brighthand review says that the T5 has a different & better coating than the easily scratched T|E. They also said the T5 looks better.

PalmOne's marketing research shows that most users always extend their T3 slider. Eliminating the slider also allowed the larger battery in the T5.

Do people not think it strange that in the same week that we discovered that Saddam had no WMDs, we also discovered that the T5 has no Wifi. Both words beginning with W was the first clue. Is George 'W' Bush involved? Am I the only one who has connected these events and suspect a global conspiracy? Can we legitimately surmise that, like Saddam, Palm's intention was there to produce a handheld with Wifi? Is intention to produce enough, or must there be evidence of real activity? Do we need a survey group to raid PalmHQ and uncover the truth?

So many questions are troubling me.. who can give any answers?

I can't find anywhere on the PalmOne website description of T5 that Kinoma is included. Has PalmOne dropped Kinoma? I don't see anything that could be a possible replacement.

The T5 sounds interesting and granted it's a step forward...but what about OS 6? What not a gig of memory? I just bought two one gig usb thumb drives for $84.00! They are kick ***! :-)
No wi fi? Bummer. Let's try again Palmone!

D. Martin
Former Amiga/Commodore Author/Writer/Reviewer

Thanks Palm Addict and PDA24/7 for the tip!

www.pajda.cz/t5.avi

-- this makes interesting viewing. 7 minutes. The first snippet has no sound other than clicking, so don't think the video is defective!

Holy cow!

http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=7230

-- now, can the TE2's (aka T5)'s SD slot handle *this*?

I've had a T1 since they came out. It is on it's last legs and I need a new one - I was limping along with it waiting until I could see the new T5.

So it is out - but wait Not for another month and with a lot less features.\
So PalmOne has abandond Mac, put out an expensive machine with few real upgrades or improvements.....

So now what..DUDE you Got a DELL??????

Okay, okay, *most* of us admit this Palm is a lame duck. Here is my theory as to why they put out such a poor model. I think they released this one to increase sales of the T3. It worked on me. Now that I know that the Tungsten Line isn't improving much. I am willing to spend my saved up upgrade money on the T3 instead of waiting for a later, better model.
BTW: When is this downward pricing pressure on the T3 going to sweep the market? PalmOne knocked the T3 price down $100 CDN dollars ($100USD), but retailers (staples, futurshop) and ebay have not dropped their prices. Comon! I want my new T3 NNNNOW.

---
Casseopea A-10>Casseopea E-10>M125>m130>T1>?T3orT5?

Does anyone know if PalmOne has even licensed OS 6.x? For me, that is the only let down with the T5 -- It's lack of OS 6.x. If I knew that PalmOne were working to release an OS 6.x update to the T5 sometime after the release of the device itself; it would make all the different in the world to me. At this point, I'm certain there will be no OS 6.x for my T3.

Hate the price, look, no power lite, no vibration battery, plastic case, no voice recorder, no cradle, no universal connector of the T5---really the E2. So, today, I bought the T3 at Futureshop in Canada. It's beautiful and does what I need it to do. Used their "Match Price" guarantee to drive down the price to $300 US. Not bad. Bought the 3 year performance guarantee for a lousy $40 US. My cellphone works with Bluetooth and I don't need WIFI. I don't need parallel processing in a PIM. My laptop is for that. I don't need my Palm to listen to music. I got an 40 GB 4th generation IPOD for that. If I want to watch a movie, I'll do it on my 36 inch HDTV, not on a 3 inch square screen, thank you very much. T3 is perfect. Don't need more. All the people complaining that the T5 doesn't meet their needs obviously did not live and work at any job before Palm existed or when the Vx was the top of the line. So, you 10 year olds, please stop your whining. If you don't like the T5, use something else. Of course, the T5 is over-priced and misnamed. It's a joke. The only advance over the T3 is the extra memory and use of flash memory if it doesn't degrade with use. If you prefer the PPC, use and buy that. Go rant about the PPC's flaws in their forums. If Palm survives, eventually, they'll launch a new unit that has a quality camera, voice recording, mountains of memory, multi-processing etc., and you'll buy it if you want. Have a little patience. Sheesh! You were all crazy about the T3 only 1 year ago. And you're not willing to give this David of a company even 1 more year to come out with a new product to rival the performance of Microsoft's Goliath PPC? Shame on you. Grow up, for gosh sakes. You sound like a bunch of insolent children.

This is an old article but very interesting when juxtaposed with the T5 debacle and the "Missing/Killed In Action" Cobalt. It's ironic that many of these "Keystone Kops" that Mike worked with at Apple are now at Palm!

Ex-Apple employee says company a 'failure'
News Story by Dennis Sellers, MacCentral

SEPTEMBER 15, 2003 (MACCENTRAL) - Michael Mace, once a marketing director at Apple, says that overall, Apple Computer Inc. has been a "massive failure." Instead of changing the world from "bad computer design and stifling corporate dictates," Apple today is "the eccentric elderly uncle of the computer industry -- still interesting, still beloved, but no longer truly powerful," he writes in an open letter to the Apple Computer History Weblog.

"Although we successfully forced personal computing to move to the graphical interface, since then fundamental innovation in personal computing has ground to a stop," Mace wrote. "The operating system most computers users work with every day is stuck in 1993, with very little fundamental improvement in the last decade. The applications on users' desktops, bloated beasts like Word and PowerPoint, haven't substantially improved in years."

There's no effective competition because Apple failed, and it failed because the tale of the company's employees from the late 1980s to the late 1990s, himself included, is one of "individual brilliance and group stupidity," he said.

"Never in my career have I worked with brighter, more interesting, more capable people. Probably I never will again," Mace wrote. "And yet, despite all our braininess, as a team we were the Keystone Kops of computing. For every innovation we brought to market, a dozen great ideas were strangled in the labs. Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent on massive projects that yielded exactly nothing. Remember Taligent? Kaleida? Jaguar (not the Mac OS X version, but an early effort to move Apple to RISC-based computing)? OpenDoc? The list is almost endless.

http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/macos/story/0,10801,84942,00.html

New pic -

http://www.monkeyfiles.net/iuploader/dellx50prepro.jpg

Where's the PIC Review of this PIG?

HINT - Just take the TE review and add 480x320 and "RAMmed" Memory to it and you're done!!!

This ain't rocket science!!!

Everyone has different priorities and will act accordingly re: whether or not to jump ship (defect?) to PPC, but for me PalmOS is still by far the better choice.

I think we're seeing a turning point this month, where it's become obvious that Palm just can't compete with PPC manufacturers in terms of features. Palm is betting the farm on smartphones and their higher margins. PDAs have become their #2 priority. Whether or not Palm's gamble pays off, I respect their decision to retreat from the PDA scene. In fact, anyone looking at the numbers would realize that Palm actually had no other option other than to try and reinvent itself as a cellphone maker.

Yes, the new PPC hardware makes Palm's current offerings look like a joke. Palm's pricing for the "T5" is most charitably described as "ambitious". But Palm still beats PPC because:

1) They have the best user interface. Period. All the main things I use a PDA to do are much easier to accomplish on a PalmOS PDA. PDAs are (for me) primarily about fast access to information and PalmOS serves up that info a lot faster and more intuitively than PPC. This isn't to say PPC is hard to learn or unuseable. Far from it. But PalmOS simply works better. It's like the difference between driving a Honda S2000 (Palm) and a Dodge Viper (PPC). I'll take elegance and efficiency (Palm) over unsophisticated brute power (PPC) any day. I'll leave the Viper and PPC to the "Gold Chain Crowd".

2) Application library for PalmOS is massive. True, 90 % of those apps are c r a p and there's a ton of redundancy. But still, there's an app available for PalmOS to accomplish almost anyththing you can think of doing on a PDA. I find it ironic that the PalmOS solutions for portable versions of Microsoft's own Word and Excel apps are SIGNIFICANTLY better than PPC's versions. PalmOS even has a better browser available than PPC's Internet Explorer. Of course, in the past three years, PPC has bridged the gap somewhat, so there are good equivalents available in most of the major software categories. But if you have even slightly obscure interests, PalmOS can't be beat. (Part of the reason is Palm's 8 year legacy, another reason is it's very easy to code Palm apps.)

3) Personal investment. I've spent a fair chunk of money on software over the years. To switch to a new OS just because it come with better hardware seems like cutting of your nose to spite your face. Until PPC hardware offers some killer function that PalmOS devices can't do, switching just doesn't make sense.

4) Inertia. After using an OS for 7 or 8 years, familiarity starts to count for a lot. Learning a new way of doing things doesn't sound very attractive to experienced PalmOS users. I know PalmOS inside out now and have a large collection of apps, tips, tricks, hacks and shortcuts that would be impossible to replicate on PPC. Why even bother to switch?

5) Some things from PalmOS have no PPC versions. Not having a PPC version of DateBk5 available is reason enough for me to stay with PalmOS. But if Billy "The Kid" Gates somehow convinced CESD to dump PalmOS and start coding a version of DateBk for PPC, I might be willing to test the PPC waters again.

6) The "Underdog Factor". Netscape. Apple. IBM. What do these firms have in common? They're still licking their wounds after trying to play hardball with "Wild" Bill Gates. Sometimes it's nice to support an underdog. (But seeing Palm blow MILLIONS on compensation to Palm executives kills a lot of the goodwill the company has earned over the years.)

- After viewing Palm's latest offering, I ended up buying another CLIE (TH55) yesterday as protection against whatever will happen over the next few years. My connection failed to deliver on an English ROM for the VZ90, but I've now hoarded enough CLIEs to last me several years. I will not be buying another PalmOS PDA unless Sony brings their quality and innovation back to North America. (Palm's quality has dropped so far in recent years that I doubt that I'd ever buy another PDA from them - I'll take a close look at the new Treo, though.) Current Palms aleady do everything I will be needing a handheld to do over the next several years and I also don't really need any more software. I'll be heading off to the bomb shelter now to pack away the TH55 and add to my stock of a year's worth of canned peas (with can opener)! Survival is assured - no matter what happens to Palm...

;-)

******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

i really wish all you "power users" would stop complaining. i say "power users" because any user who had any sense of logic would immediately discount PPCs as overgrown, inefficient, overly expensive, yet powerful peices of junk..

WHY PPCS ARE OVERLY EXPENSIVE, YOU MIGHT ASK?
Just compare the price of the lowest cost PPC to that of the lowest cost P1 model. you'll see the difference...... or even average the prices of all the models on either side, maybe dell on one side and p1 on the other. You will see that palm devices are, with the exception of sony devices, FAR cheaper than PPC counterparts.

MY OPINION: The T|T5 will be quite a cool and worthwhile device.
WHY? Because a) it has the most memory on any PalmOS device, ever.
B) it has the most innovative memory setup on any PalmOS device, ever.
C) Bluetooth
D) AMAZINGLY cool screen (cool, HVGA - 320*480)
E) MUCH MORE STUFF WHICH I WILL NOT MENTION HERE.

All you guys who are obsessed with WI-FI hear this, in the united states, Wi-Fi HAS NOT become particularly popular, as you guys think. FOR EXAMPLE: The only hotspot within 30 miles of my home in suburban new york is at my local library. WI-FI IS FAR MORE USED IN EUROPE!!!!!!!!! NOT THE USA!!!!! the only thing that's particularly useful for most american users with wi-fi enabled devices is AD-Hoc mode. THAT'S IT!. Bluetooth on the other hand is far more prevailent in the united states. virtualy every new high end, and many new mid level cellphones are bluetooth enabled, as well as other PDAs, computers, laptops, etc. AND THIS IS WITHOUT ACCESSORIES! So, please stop complaining about wi-fi

AS FOR PLASTIC BODY: who really cares. so it's plastic. chances are, so is your television, computer, cell phone, clock radio, etc....

AS FOR THE SUPPOSED BUGGYNESS: a) Chances are (logic suggests) that there will be a os6 upgrade for the T5 (and yes, palm in the past has actually been very good with upgrades.... remember almost every OS3/3.5 device could be upgraded to OS4? The only reason OS4 devices cant be upgraded to OS5 is because of their absolute lack of ARM compatable processors.
C) Look at p1's troubleshooting faq page on the t5.... remember that calender app freezing issue people have been having?... well in a matter of a few weeks, it will probably be a thing of the past, see p1 is working on a patch for it...

AND FINALLY, WE COME TO THE END OF MY RATHER PSYCOTIC RANT.
Feel free to email me at: hic@bestweb.net to yell at or agree with me on this issue. frankly, any opionion one might have is welcomed. or, respond to this comment post... i'll be glad to continue this at a later date.

The T5 is the first ring.

A buggy Treo 650 would be the second.

There might not be a third.

******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Has anyone got it to work yet?
Wher can I get the driver I need?