Comments on: palmOne Announces the Tungsten T5 Handheld

palmOne has officially announced the new Tungsten T5 handheld, which will be widely available in early November. The new T5 features 256MB of Flash memory, a 320x480 pixel display and Bluetooth wireless in a compact Tungsten E like form factor.
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Very Nice!

Mr T @ 10/3/2004 11:59:23 PM #
First post, Sweet!

I love the new battery (1300mah) , form factor proven from Tungsten E. This looks like a possible winner from palmone.

bigjarom @ 10/4/2004 12:12:38 AM #
I, for one, shant be purchasing one of these.
RE: Very Nice!
svrontis @ 10/4/2004 12:32:35 AM #
This looks like a fine unit. p1 will seem a ton of these. One caveat - not sure about those dimensions - 120 x 78 x 15.5 mm - a little too thick for my liking. Hopefully, p1 will bring out an E2 soon which is lighter and thinner (and without that BT radio, please).

I think mikecane said it best: 'Up yours, PPC'.

AyDb @ 10/4/2004 12:45:17 AM #
This would have been 'very nice' one year ago. Now, it's just behind the times. For $400, it lacks features like a removable battery and WiFi that you can get on the competition for $230.

RE: Very Nice!
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 1:05:04 AM #
"Hopefully" and PalmOne are oximorons.

Pat Horne;
RE: Very Nice!
svrontis @ 10/4/2004 1:09:13 AM #
LiveFaith, no offense intended, but I'd be a moron if I believed that.

The problem, off course, is that Dell will copy this unit within a few months. Perhaps they will realise that the best selling units are those with good functionality and a fantastic form factor (not the brick-like devises which seem to appeal to those which must have everything but the kitchen sink).

In the meantime, 'Up yours, PPC'. (mikecane, can we get bumper stickers for this quote?)

RE: Very Nice!
AyDb @ 10/4/2004 1:18:56 AM #
"The problem, off course, is that Dell will copy this unit within a few months."

Are you nuts? Dell has a line of Pocket PCs that are selling very well without needing to copy PalmOne's reheated leftovers. Dell offers a unit that is slimmer than the T5, with both flash AND RAM memory, plus Bluetooth, WiFi, removable battery, and 624 MHz processor for $260, $140 less than this TE2 wannabee. $220 less if you add in a nicely delicate WiFi card for the T5.

Focus here, people. Who do you think is taking PalmOne's market share? It's Dell and others like them. And the reason they're taking it is because they realise that people want both FEATURES and VALUE.

RE: Very Nice!
GearHead @ 10/4/2004 7:00:38 AM #
One must be a major sucker for PalmONE to buy this. My Tungsten T does the same stuff as this one. Why should I shell out $400 for this?

DELL Axim x30 624mHz with Wi-Fi + BT tops this device several times on Price and Technology. DELL doesn't need to copy Palm, they already have their own edge.

Seems like Palm is no longer the frontier of this market, only the follower. They must have a ton of those Wi-Fi SDIO cards in their stocks, that's why they made this one competible with that card, and forcing loyal suckers to buy this and the Wi-Fi card to add it to their ancient Palm Gadgets list.

NO THANX!!!!!!!!!

Palm III>Palm IIIx>PalmV>PalmVx>Palm m505>Palm M515>Tungsten T
Dell X30 624Mhz w/BT+Wi-Fi
Nokia 6600 w/BT

RE: Very Nice!
PilotMad @ 10/4/2004 7:48:24 AM #
Given that the T5 still uses OS5, I think palmone has really made a mistake.
What a missed opportunity. It should have been an incremental upgrade to the T3
and include all best features of the tungsten range to-date.

This would have been my choice:

Form factor/slider design of T3 (Best Tungsten form factor)
The superior build quality of the T1 (Best Tungsten Build quality)
Voice recorder, Built-in Bluetooth and WiFi
New features of the T5 (256MB,improved battery,OS 5.4, new connector ...)

Updated accessories would include (foremost) a new power-to-go.
Indispensable for power backup when using wi-fi etc.

This would have been an excellent finale to the tungsten series before os6 palm models.

Palm Nirvana or bust!

RE: Very Nice!
ssummer @ 10/4/2004 8:49:32 AM #
Very nice? Umm, NO.

I have been very content with my Clie N760 (yeah, old) until I dropped it 2 weeks ago and messed up half the screen. I got tempted by PPCs (especially the VGA ones here and coming soon) but decided to wait to see what was going to come from the Palm camp. Well this seems to be it. Thanks for all the years Palm (well really Sony). It was nice working with you. Bye.

RE: Very Nice!
spaskey @ 10/4/2004 11:57:10 AM #
No thanks.

I've been waiting for months for the firm details of the new palms. If this is the best they can do, I'm going to buy a Dell. Ciao, Palm One.

RE: Very Nice!
Rome @ 10/4/2004 12:34:11 PM #
I am reading this thread with some amusements. First, let me say that I too am somewhat disappointed with this new T5. However, the more I think about it, the more I realize that his model is not targeted to user like me or perhaps most users who frequent Palminfocenter.

Assuming that T5 does have integrated wifi, voice recording, and Cobalt, would I buy it? The answer, to me at least, is no. Why not? Because I have my money set on the Treo 650 this Christmas. I don’t know what the market research numbers are, but I am guessing that P1’s internal research indicates that most early adopters will migrate to a converged device like Treo 650 rather than upgrading to T5. Sure we all want a PDA with all the bells and whistles, but, being a personal device, I want my PDA to be something that I enjoy using. And this time, Treo 650 is it.

A lot of you mentioned about how great the Dell PDAs are. Sure their hardware specs look great, but let’s not forget that a computing device consists of two major technial components – hardware and software. That’s why I have always preferred Palm OS to Microsoft Pocket PC and Apple Macintosh OS to Windows.

My biggest concern about T5 is actually the price. T5 is a fine machine but I don’t know if the market is willing to pay $399 for it. I guess only time will tell.

RE: Very Nice!
DeNiro @ 10/4/2004 1:27:01 PM #
Yes the Dell Axim X30 is a very nice device and offers alot of value for money, but there's something wrong with it, it's a PPC.

It crashes all the time and the PPC interface is just horrible!

There is another pro for Dell and that is the "1 year Next Business Day whole unit exchange" waranty. If it breaks they'll give you a new unit. With Palm you have to send it in.

I'm getting the feeling Palm was working on a nice device, but somewhere along the line they realized it wasn't going to be finished on time and they HAD to come out with something new, with the holiday season coming, so they slapped together some stuff put in some gizmos (battery flash memory) to make it look better and put it on the market.

I think Palm willc ome out with a OS6 device somewhere in the next few months.

RE: Very Nice!
InsGuy @ 10/4/2004 2:31:48 PM #
Wrong! The X30 does NOT crash all the time. I have one, and have used it for a few months, and have had to do exactly 2 soft resets (one was after installing a trial version of a Today Screen plug-in). Let's see, how many times did I have to do a soft reset with my T2, or my Z2 for that matter? WAY MORE THAN I CAN REMEMBER! I'm not here to try and convert people to PPC - far from it. It is however, people who keep putting out disinformation about PPC and trying to FORCE brand loyalty on people that allows P1 to go right on producing things like this 'legendary T5'. I can't believe someone at P1 actually thought this was a good idea!

All good things...
Impressive, but doesn't meet my requirements.
UZI4U182 @ 10/4/2004 3:28:33 PM #
I'm definitely impressed by this device, however I am still disappointed that there is no built-in WiFi! Come on Palm1, GET THE NET! LIVE IN THE NOW! Not a bad price either.

>>>The Flash RAM also allows fro a greater keep alive time...<<<

Oh, so not only can I store my files with Flash RAM, but also maintain my fro? =P Just messin with ya!
Main PDA: NX70v + WL100

RE: Very Nice!
AyDb @ 10/4/2004 4:27:36 PM #
InsGuy, well said. There's a huge amount of disinformation around here about Pocket PCs. People who have never even really used one insist that they crash all the time (they don't), that the interface is horrible (no, it's just different), that they're slow (the 624 MHz X30 feels faster that most Palms), and that nobody needs the things that Pocket PCs offer. There was a time here when everybody swore that nobody needed more than 16 MB RAM, that color screens were a luxury, and that Pocket PCs were just bags of useless features. Nowadays many of those features are standard on any device that wants to compete.

RE: Very Nice!
Texonite @ 10/4/2004 6:51:01 PM #
Touse things, you are saying about PPC are just foolish...

1. Try to open let's say, 5 programs, close it completely (no, not with this ****ty "close" button, but get inside the system with 5-6 taps and CLOSE all thouse programs. Good. REMEMBER amount of Executable memory, you now have. Make a SOFT RESET. Enjoy MORE FREE SPACE then there was.

I own FSC Pocket Loox 420 for a month. I can't stand it! Yes, it has good stand-on-from-battery time. But in all other ways it's horrible. No, i'm not rebooting it every hour. It's pretty stable, as long as i use only 6 3rd-party programs. But with 400MHz CPU *I must wait at least 2 secs. to get a connection dialog after tap!* (some times up to 6 sec).

2. Try to install a program WITHOUT A PC. It's almost impossible to get a free CAB file. You are intended to setup it First on your PC (which i hate to do - i have a lot of rubbish anyway), And only then, you would be able to Active Sync and finally get the program on your PPC. There is also an issue about installing Cabs inside PDA.

3. I simply CAN'T USE 5-way Navigator SO productive as i did it on my T3 (that one is now used by my mother, i hoped, i'll be able to get a Cobalt this Fall) I can't do 10% of this productivity! It's just not intended to it. Think what you want, but it's just for gaming, not more in PPCs.

4. There is a lot of small issues about interface and 3rd-party-UI-ideology. For example in PocketIRC i write with BlockRecognizer, but my hand is ABOVE THE INPUT FIELD. Of course i'm a son of glass-cutter and can see through it...

WinMobile is solicitously filled up with a GREAT amount of small disturbing and annoying problems, that i'm really CAN'T STAND IT.

No, really, a Human can get used to ANYTHING. But i like POS because of its simplicity and power - the ONLY problem *NOW* is that i can't browse 2 pages at the time (still Cobalt 6.1 is better than EVERY implimentation of WM...)

I don't know, how Dell gets their prices, but i would never even compare a PPC with Palm

Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(

RE: Very Nice!
dsm363 @ 10/4/2004 7:29:26 PM #
If this kind of memory doesn't use much power, why is the new Treo only going to have 32MB?

RE: Very Nice!
DeNiro @ 10/5/2004 6:01:43 AM #
@InsGuy: I've had sveeral PPC's in my hands. Asus A620BT, Dell X30 and several HO and Compaq ones.

They all did crash all the time. Somehow if one app crashs it would take the whole device with it, meaning a reset.

The PPC interface is just horrible, if you need todo superficial things then you can access them rightaway but if you need to access something in the config or a 3th party app then you are a long way from home.

ActiveSync is just horrible and very limited in what it can do. There are no real free usefull addons for activesync. Hotsync is much better and does have a whole range of free conduits.

No thanks that is one ally I wont go down again. I'd rather stick to my old and trusty Palm.

RE: Very Nice!
NewtonDKC @ 10/5/2004 8:19:37 AM #
DeNiro, if those units crashed all the time then you must have had some 3rd party add on that is poorly written installed on those (I am not in anyway doubting what you say, just pointing out in my experience - and supporting over 250 Pocket PCs for our wireless network at work, that if that was the norm nobody would use them. You either had some defective units or - judging from your post, sounds like maybe you like to play with freeware and whatnot, and thus maybe installed something less than stable).
I have had mutliple models of PPC and Palm and I can honestly say that Pocket PC's from the past 3-4 years DO NOT crash anymore frequently that a Palm. And usually anytime it does, it's related to a 3rd party app or utility modifying the system in someway. As far as ActiveSync vs HotSync - I personally find ActiveSync to be much better. It syncs constantly why the unit is plugged in, so any new email, appointments, etc automatically go over and on my PPC so I can grab it and run to a meeting and be assured I have everything current. Also, we use Outlook at work, and the Palm users have *far more* problems with duplicate meetings, etc showing up after hotsynching, which almost never happens witht he Pocket PC (I know the PPC has the advantage here being all MS - just reporting our environment).
With the Palm, I have to remember to synch it - and sometimes I don't have time to sync if a call comes in for something urgent.
And no, I am not trying to sway people to the dark side - only defending a platform that gets some pretty unfair reports now and then.

RE: Very Nice!
Tapi @ 10/5/2004 10:51:40 AM #
"The Tungsten T5 gunmetal colored outside body is plastic"

Thanks a lot PalmOne, but no thank you!!
I'll wait ...---... T|T6 ...---...

RE: Very Nice!
InsGuy @ 10/5/2004 10:57:47 AM #
Well said Newton.
If someone is having that much of a problem using PPC, then they really do need to stick with a simpler device. In the end, it's really all just a matter of preference. A Palm unit is an organizer, and a PPC device is a small computer. The more features it has, the more complicated it becomes. The 'EASIER' it is to use, the less features it has. PPC will more than likely always have to be used in conjunction with a PC, that's because it's a.... small computer. I believe that with OS 6, or Cobalt as it's called, comes out, and the more features it has, users will have to go through more steps to do the same thing they're doing on their current OS5 devices now. I have an X30, but I still like my Z2 the best. Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to convert anyone to PPC, but constantly making harsh remarks about PPC just to cover up palm OS limitations is not the way to go. Instead, people need to be more vocal to PALM, and let them know units like the T5 are not what we're wanting.

All good things...
RE: Very Nice!
A9700rO @ 10/5/2004 11:59:48 AM #
I agree. It's not fair that people keep on making harsh remarks on Pocket PCs, because PalmOne, as he just said, goes and hides behind, after all the people covering up Palm OS's limitations, they come out with a c-r-a-p-p-y device like the T5. I'm not taking Pocket PCs side or anything.. but the T5 really dissapointed alot of customers. Even though the paint peels off the Zire 72, it's the best deal out there in my oppinion atleast.

Clie-SJ22>>Tungsten | E >>> Clie-NX60>>Zire 72
RE: Very Nice!
JonathanChoo @ 10/6/2004 12:49:32 PM #
I reset my T3 once a day, I reset my h4150 once a day also.

So both equally as bad. PPCs are improving in their stability although I would never believe anyone who says their PPC never crash in weeks or months. Hell when I first got my first PPC (toshiba e310) it crashes even when there was NO third party application installed. Its just me using the PIM (alots).

Also the days of palms never crashing is over. But I like my Crash hack. Atleast I do not have to reach for the reset hole.

RE: Very Nice!
plm922 @ 10/6/2004 2:48:26 PM #
I've been using Palm OS for about 5 years now, I started with a Handspring and when I dropped it and broke the screen I bought a Clie T615 (which I like a lot but is pretty outdated) and have bought for my wife a Handspring Edge (she hardly uses it) I've been saving and waiting for the right device..wi-fi is a big one for me. Camera would be nice, but really voice recorder should be a given! I'm really conflicted about this one. I was ready to shell out the cash judging from the rumors...but I don't know any more. I've been giving the Dell X30 a second look...but still can't bring myself to buy that either. I feel like Palm screwed me! I'll give it to the end of the year and see if the other rumored device is any better. I'll bet they'll want a wad of cash and my left n*t for one.

reformed lurker
RE: Very Nice!
InsGuy @ 10/6/2004 4:15:40 PM #
@plm992: What other rumored device? I generally try to keep up on the boards, but I must've missed this. Any news would be great!

All good things...
RE: Very Nice!
blue9 @ 10/7/2004 11:05:16 AM #
InsGuy, this is not Enough with this ppc vs palm crap. We all know the pros and cons already.

No thanks

treo007 @ 10/4/2004 12:04:16 AM #
First off, I think Palm takes way too much crap from both their own users and the pundits as a whole.

That having been said, I find it pretty hard to get excited about this one....

RE: No thanks
Captain Hair @ 10/4/2004 12:07:19 AM #

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: No thanks
phoneboy @ 10/4/2004 1:45:39 AM #
I'm definately unimpressed. This makes me glad that I have my Clie UX-50. It's still the most innovaitve PDA out there. (I'm TYPING on it now.) I don't see anything on the horizon that will replace my 11 month old Clie which has BT, wi-fi, camera, voice recorder, great multimedia, and a keyboard to boot.

My point is, even though there are a lot of reasons to hate Sony, and many Palmers hate Clies, their exit from the US market was unfortunate for us all. They seem to have taken with them innovation, and the drive to make large improvements on each new model. Sony pioneered for Palm: multimdeia (MP3 & video), hi-res and hi-res+ displays, cameras, and I've been able to mount my internal and external memory cards as drives on a computer for years. It's why I've never needed a thumb drive. Pa1m is just coming up with that now?

Come back Sony! Clie fans and Pa1mOne fans alike would benefit from a competitive Palm economy.

RE: No thanks
mtc111 @ 10/4/2004 7:43:28 AM #
First time since the '90s that I'm not upgrading.

RE: No thanks
bestoverall @ 10/4/2004 8:55:38 AM #
I'll pass this one too. No voice recorder and lack of USB are total let down. There is only a few very marginal improvements which are all immaterial. Going to PPC is not an option for me. Palm sure could do much better, but they seem to have drop the ball this time.

RE: No thanks
tooele @ 10/4/2004 12:26:34 PM #
I think I'll be keeping my T3. The T5 has some nice features like the better battery and new OS. But a 16Mhz improvement on the processor isn't worth it and the lack of a voice recorder is kind of dumb not to add especially for the top of the line tungsten. I also personally like the slider. As for the memory it's nice but I have a 512MB SD card so I have all the memory I need. Palm could and should have done much better.

RE: No thanks
A9700rO @ 10/4/2004 1:04:00 PM #
Pfft, I'd rather get a Pocket PC. Not even Palm OS cobalt, nor have belt-in Wi-Fi. You gotta be PalmOne's lap dog to go and buy this one, PalmOne is sinking, I'm gonna go over to the dark side(Pocket Pc) untill I see Palm OS cobalt, belt in Wi-Fi. Untill then, adios PalmOne, just lost another customer who was almost royal. I'll cling on to my Zire 72 till something better comes along.

Clie-SJ22>>Tungsten | E >>> Clie-NX60>>Zire 73
RE: No thanks
Wolfgard @ 10/4/2004 1:51:48 PM #
Big disappointment if you ask me. Thank god I went and bought the Zire 72 when it came out, which I then sold (today) and got a 2nd hand Clie TH55 (which I'm in love with right now).

No Cobalt? Possibly noisy screen (which was why I sold my Zire), poor battery life, QC problems, well.... I'll stay with my current pda for the moment. The next time I upgrade, it'll be a Treo. No more vanilla PDAs from PalmOne for me!

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72

RE: No thanks
jackl @ 10/4/2004 2:43:22 PM #
Agreed. Bad day for PalmOne. I'll be holding on to my T3 for at least another year to see whether PalmOne comes up with something appropriate (POS 6.0, better formfactor and looks, built in WiFi and BT), etc.

I also am not interested in buying three new cradles and cords, giving up or trying to replace my old "universal connector" gear (modem, two "power to go" batteries).

I guess a year from now it will be either going to a newOS6 Tungsten or any similar "premium" device that indicates PalmOne is still serious about the innovative handhelds category or going over to the dark side.

But for now, my T3 (yes I like the slider and collapsable smaller form factor better than lackluster plain "tablet in your pocket" PPC-Dell type design) with Wi-fi card (amazing, BTW!) and two power to go batteries seems a hell of a lot more functional than the ugly piece of crap that was released today.

J (Palm Pilot III -> Vx -> M505 -> M515 -> T1 -> T3)

RE: No thanks
Take1 @ 10/4/2004 7:39:01 PM #
I wonder if this unit will have the same super scratch inherent surface of the T|E? Either way my assessment of this devise is like the majority of the thread, this is NOT what we've been waiting for. Using the uber cheap T|E plastic case and no wi-fi is daft. They should have used the original T series pads and buttons in a T|3 form factor without slider.

Thank goodness I decided to buy the TH55 before they went extinct becuase I'd be kicking myself if I hadn't after seeing the specs on the T|5!

Now I'm keeping an eye on Dell.. Wonder what they've got up their sleeve?

RE: No thanks
GearHead @ 10/5/2004 11:01:28 AM #
Definitely. This could compete with bottom line Dell X30 or older Zire 71 at $199 price range. Why should people buy this while they can get a Tungsten T1, T2, even T3 for much less. Palm lost me and hundreds if not thousand others like me to PPC. If this is their new midrange, well what is their new flagship model? Tungsten T10???

Anyways, price sucks for starters, unit sucks for rest of us. After all these years being loyal customers this is what we get?

A Tungsten E knockoff, they must be out of their minds to put this in their product line, thinking we'll fall for it!!!

Oh well! Thank got I purchased my Dell X30 with all the bells and whistles (624mHZ, BT, Wi-Fi etc.) under $300.

I suggest all of you to go check Axim X30 and find a coupon code over the internet to get even better price, and enjoy the surfing and doing countless other things from your PDA. Don’t worry with all those rumors about PPCs, crashes; you can't open/close multiple programs. Total BS don’t believe it!

Good luck all of you!


Palm III>Palm IIIx>PalmV>PalmVx>Palm m505>Palm M515>Tungsten T
Dell X30 624Mhz w/BT+Wi-Fi
Nokia 6600 w/BT

RE: No thanks
Wolfgard @ 10/5/2004 2:06:46 PM #
Sounds like PalmOne couldn't get their Cobalt device out quick enough to beat HP so they took their T|E2 and renamed it T|5. They'll release the Cobalt Tungsten as the T|6 then, or whatever name they'll call it.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72

I knew it!!!

Hustleman @ 10/4/2004 12:07:07 AM #
I knew Ryan was holding on to this info. But he couldn't release it til midnite. LOL!!

RE: I knew it!!!
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 1:18:19 AM #
He may have been afraid 28,000 users would have caused mutiny if he were to suggest such an embarassment as innovation.

Pat Horne;
RE: I knew it!!!
RAMd®d @ 10/5/2004 3:29:39 PM #
He may have been afraid 28,000 users would have caused mutiny if he were to suggest such an embarassment as innovation.

Yes, as though he actually worries about what a bunch of cackling hens posing as PDA gurus/market analysts think.

An armed society is a polite society.

No Surprise

lak @ 10/4/2004 12:04:48 AM #
No surprise from the official specs. People who hate the slider should like this alternative. Some may moan about the lack of WiFi, but I find Bluetooth more useful to me.

I also do not like their yet another new connector. But I see where it is coming from as it wants to incorporate multi-media pin out. Maybe they should have reserved some unused pins for their previous "universal" connector.

Am I the only one who would not jump on Cobalt? You would have the extra headache of programs not working, early version bugs etc. But I bet it should be an upgrade option for T5.

Free Enhanced Keyboard/Keypad for T3 DIA Skin
OriginalPlus v1.1 English / German / French layout

RE: No Surprise
rsc1000 @ 10/4/2004 2:35:53 AM #
>>You would have the extra headache of programs not working, early version bugs etc.

Palm OS 6 (Cobolt) = PACE (ie: OS 5 so same compatiblity exactly) + new ARM native APIs (ie: 'OS 6' APIs). This my understanding. Any experts out there who know anything different?

RE: No Surprise
ardiri @ 10/4/2004 11:25:05 AM #
    Palm OS 6 (Cobolt) = PACE (ie: OS 5 so same compatiblity exactly) + new ARM native APIs (ie: 'OS 6' APIs). This my understanding. Any experts out there who know anything different?

Cobalt will run Garnet applications - if you are doing things right :) i was able to sucessfully run pocket mini golf on the cobalt hardware that was available at palmsource (big old ugly circuit board).

so, dont worry about that :) most OS5 apps will run, OS4 (68k) if they dont run on OS5 wont run on OS6 :)

Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer


Gekko @ 10/4/2004 12:20:27 AM #
no cradle, no wifi, no cobalt, no voice recorder.


Gekko @ 10/4/2004 12:20:54 AM #

and a PLASTIC case! All for $399!

Mr T @ 10/4/2004 12:34:07 AM #
OK, I was excited at first, but $399 for a plastic case is not acceptable, plus no cradle, no voice recorder like the T3 and no wifi.

This would've been great at $299 and the name TE2, not T5.

Gekko, I'm starting to agree with you...

Oh well!

LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:35:22 AM #
Chill man! At least it will only be until November 3 before "widely available". I mean after all P1 had to bring in NASA to innovate like this.

It's a flash drive, all you have to do is carry your USB cable with multi-connector around in you pocket all the time to use the drive on another computer. Wow, sounds fun to me. Maybe they'l offer a belt case for the USB cable so that I can put it next to my slide rule and become king of the geeks.

This is sad.

Pat Horne;

hkklife @ 10/4/2004 1:04:17 AM #
The PPC camp must be giggling hysterically right about now (or rather, they will be doing so come Monday morning when they read this on all of the WWW sites).

What a sad, sad day for the Palm world. Has there been an uglier year for us than '04? After a string of impressive or mostly impressive handhelds & the Treo 600 in '03, 2004 has been riddden with disappointment after disappointment. If you had asked me in Nov '03 when I got my T3 what would be on the shelves in a year's time I would have said a 128mb+, dual wireless OS6 unit with all of the T3's features and then some (accelerated graphics, possibly dual SDIO etc). I'm not going to say any more on the matter other than this so-called T5 is a slap (and the final straw in many cases) for the remaining loyal Palm OS power users everywhere. If this is the best they can muster for the crucial holiday season then they deserve to painfully fade away . Oh, btw, did anyone read the new Wired mag interview with Jeff H. ? He wants to make great waves in the AI community...better first grant some brainpower to whomever at P1 decided to make it a policy to introduce a sideways upgrade roadmap.

P1 had better be furiously scrambling to get a refreshed T|C2 out ASAP. Even in the same formfactor with 320*320, a T|C2 with OS6, the new Athena connector and a higher-capacity battery would be good enough to quiet the cries for a new wi-fi unit. All we can hope for is something to launch between now and next spring. I wonder if anything like OS6 upgrades or a revised T|C will be announced alongside the Treo 650? Can we at least get a price drop soon on the T5 or a free wi-fi card promo for it when purchased from the P1 Store???

Puppy @ 10/4/2004 1:20:33 AM #
Wow...I mean...what the hey is "palmOne" doing? Personally, I don't want Wifi OR Bluetooth. I'd pay to take them off, but Palm needs at least one model in this range with Wifi to satisfy those who want it.

A plastic case? I had a T|E briefly (didn't work, had the infamous humming screen), and although I think the case looks nice in pictures, it looks horendously cheap in real life.

No voice$200 PocketPCs have a voice recorder. The $250 Zire 72 has a voice recorder.

No PalmOS 6? Again...huh? Rumors at the begining of the year pointed to a June or July launch. The idea of a November launch still running OS 5 is astounding.

Of course, I don't know that I'd want OS 6 anyway, because I want Grafiti, and I don't know if it's possible to run it on OS 6. (Thanks for leaving me with the choice Palm!)

This thing is an E|2. At $300ish it wouldn't look too bad. But trying to claim this is their high-end model? I'm with the people who think something's going horribly wrong with OS 6 and the next real Tungsten.

I've been a longtime Palm fan, tried to steer I don't know how many people to Palm. I've loved their stability, great battery life, tons of freeware, logical intefaces, etc. But it has been getting harder and harder for me to take Palm seriously. Most significantly, PalmOne's hardware is HORRIBLY unreliable. I've owned multiple PDAs from 4 companies, including 5 from PalmOne. The PDAs from the other companies never had ANY problems (I broke a screen on a Handspring, but that was my fault). *ALL FIVE* PalmOne units, going all the way back to a 3xe had serious problems in less than one year. Thankfully most of them died or developed horrible problems with a few hours/days of opening them, so I could get my money back.

There's no way my experiences are atypical, and odds it's some fluke are astronomical. There's no way I can recommend PalmOne units to anyway. I used to recommend HandSpring, and then Sony, but now what? IMO Wince/PocetPC is pretty awful, but odds are I'll own an Axim by the end of the year.

statik @ 10/4/2004 1:21:16 AM #
OK, I'm confused. Is there a voice recorder or not? Everything I've heard up to now says no voice recorder, but if you look on the palmOne>t5 spec page it shows the voice recorder as hidden feature number 12?

I'm going to take this to meen that there is a voice recorder after all? Maybe there is just no hard button now?

LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 1:36:59 AM #
That's the Canadian version of the site. Maybe market research showed the yanks don't need VR. Maybe it only records in French? :-D

Pat Horne;
Puppy @ 10/4/2004 1:51:28 AM #
Palm's page (I'm getting tired of typing "palmOne", and they're the only PalmOS company left basically anyway), Palm's tech page for the T5 dosen't show a voice recorder. Hidden feature 12 is the rechargeable battery.

Puppy @ 10/4/2004 3:24:36 AM #
Opps, sorry, I didn't see that that was the Candian site. Well, let's hope it's right.

I don't know, the more I think about it, *if* it has a voice recorder, and *if* Palm's done a 180 on reliability and gets this one right...then I may be interested in this. I love the 320x480 screen (but hate the slider). I love PalmOS in general (although I think WinCE probably has better media support, and better Exchange mail support). The CPU in this is excellent (since PalmOS isn't super processor intensive). The battery is big. It does at least have the OPTION for a cradle (and wi-fi for that matter), which is better than nothing.

*SIGH* I don't know. For some reason the lack of a voice recorder just REALLY made me think Palm had lost their mind. If it's there...we'll see. I really do like Palm OS :( Just didn't think I'd have to lower my expectations like this.

Puppy @ 10/4/2004 3:51:28 AM #
Sorry about all these posts. Can't edit them :(

Anyway, the Canadian site lists a voice recorder, the US site absolutly dosen't, even in their PDF. Brighthand specifically says it dosen't have one.

Time to look for Dell coupons, I guess :/

rikster @ 10/4/2004 5:09:36 AM #
I second that PalmOne

You Suck !

PPC here I come - I want Wifi - PalmOne will never deliver wifi.

You suck, suck, suck !

Bye Bye !

GearHead @ 10/4/2004 7:13:51 AM #
I already purchased my Axim X30 624 mHZ with Wi-Fi + Bluetooth. I am absolutely loving it. Price was awsome, craftsmanship is great, operates like a charm. I think we all should give achance to PPC after what Palm did to us. Maybe Palm is not capable of manufacturing something beyond Tungsten T3. Too bad Sony left because they were pushing Palm to innovate.

Oh well, I still live my mighty Tungsten T, and enjoying everything I need on my new Dell.

Good luck to you all!


Palm III>Palm IIIx>PalmV>PalmVx>Palm m505>Palm M515>Tungsten T
Dell X30 624Mhz w/BT+Wi-Fi
Nokia 6600 w/BT

songdog @ 10/4/2004 9:12:35 AM #
The Canadian site doesn't list a voice recorder as of 9:00 AM EST on October 4.
Alric @ 10/4/2004 10:08:48 AM #
My <$250 Axim X30 is way better than this brtute. Bring out the nails, Palm is dead..

scaught @ 10/4/2004 12:48:42 PM #
and its that same plastic case that TE users watch as it gets all covered in fingerprints, then gets gradually scuffed down to grey ugly plastic after "use" like putting it in your pocket.

plastic case, on a premium handheld. hahahahah


Gekko @ 10/4/2004 1:50:31 PM #

A PLASTIC case is not bad IF it is high quality plastic like Nokia and PPCs use. BUT that CHEAP CRAPPY T/E PAINT PEELING GARBAGE CHEAP LIGHT SHIIT that the T/E uses is UNACCEPTABLE for $400.

Yadda yadda...
RAMd®d @ 10/5/2004 3:36:47 PM #
The PPC camp must be giggling hysterically right about now

And who really cares? You actually worry about what someone thinks of you based on your choice of PDA? My PDA can beat up your PDA? How grade school. This forum has had the school yard bully mentality about PDAs for a few years now, and I just don't get it.

I buy what I like and don't worry about what anybody thinks.

How can one be threatened by another's preference of hardware?

It's all about the ratings, I guess.

An armed society is a polite society.

Gekko @ 10/5/2004 4:37:46 PM #

nobody wants to be considered a fool.

unfortunately, this new Palm is foolish.

InsGuy @ 10/7/2004 1:34:52 PM #
I've had a Dell X30 for a few months, and have loved it. I still like my Z2 better, because I like the palm OS better. HOWEVER, this may be the thing that pushes alot of loyal palm power users to the PPC camp. A great many pda users buy what works for them, and works well in their lifestyle and is easily incorporated into their workflow. PPC, especially in the last few years, has really made some significant gains in marketshare because of this fact. Some people who 'buy Palm because I've always bought Palm', may now decide the brand loyalty thing is going on too long, and change now to units by HP and Dell.

A couple of posters above said it best. If this is the best palm can do, then they deserve to fade away. Sad....

All good things...

Strider_mt2k @ 10/7/2004 5:39:59 PM #
It's better to burn out than it is to rust.
It's better to burn out than to fade away.

(Thanks Neil)

Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?

LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:07:25 AM #
Friends and neighbors,
I have just fired up the gas grill to cook my crow. Augghta be really good if I can get the feathers out. :-(

"Aint gonna happen" ... yes it is.
"PalmOne aint suicidal" ... yes they izz.
"This aint the T5" ... gulp.
"Selling short on my credit card" ... I should have.
etc etc.

Yes, this "T5" offers some nice functional improvements, but what a collossal slap in the face after months of anticipation as well the availability of Palm OS Cobalt. My T3 is not in any danger of appearing on eBAY soon.

This is the biggest disappointment in my affiliation with Palm handhelds. I really really was excited about the T3 successor. I can only surmise that P1 has given up on handhelds for smartfones as others have suggested.

My only hope for advancement is that P1 has something actually special awaiting with OS6. Uggggggggggggh.

I'm just sitting here waiting on Brutas now.

Pat Horne;

RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
Foo Fighter @ 10/4/2004 2:21:54 AM #
Don't feel bad, I'm still coughing up my feathers.

Contributing Editor,
RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 2:29:49 AM #

At least your 1:2. You were right on that cheesy thing over at 1SRC. Then again, that device is starting to look better and better. Ooops ... gotta get back 2 the grill.

Pat Horne;

RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
pufftissue @ 10/4/2004 4:52:40 AM #
The T5 = 6 possibilities:

1. Palm thinks palm os users are all 100% simpletons. While the T5 will make do for your average user, clearly there are power users out there, and they do contribute a lot to their profits because we buy the most expensive units.
2. Palm is purposely ignoring pdas and now moving exclusively towards smartphones. The Treo 650 is more exciting to me than the T5.
3. Palm has a yet to be announced entirely new line of high-end pdas such that the T5 is no longer their most advanced model.
4. Palm is willfully trying to bankrupt themselves.
5. DELL has already bought palmone and this is what we're seeing as a result: palm is now the os for kiddies.
6. Palm is being run by a bunch of idiots and they have no clue that their competition gains marketshare by the quarter as they overestimate the loyalty of the palm os customerbase.

RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
palmhiker @ 10/4/2004 9:52:22 AM #
Your items 1, 2 and 6 are the most likely to be true.

Treo 650 is more Exiting...
GearHead @ 10/4/2004 10:32:27 AM #
"The Treo 650 is more exciting to me than the T5."

I second this. I think Treo 650 with Bluetooth is way more innovative and useful to me. I am waiting for the Treo 700 with Wi-Fi + BT + IR + Quad Band GSM.

This would be a great product against the new HP Phone/PDA/Brick

Let's cross our fingers.....


Palm III>Palm IIIx>PalmV>PalmVx>Palm m505>Palm M515>Tungsten T
Dell X30 624Mhz w/BT+Wi-Fi
Nokia 6600 w/BT

RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
rsc1000 @ 10/4/2004 11:28:01 AM #
>>Let's cross our fingers.....

With palmOne my fingers are sore from doing this.

RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
tupai @ 10/4/2004 4:06:49 PM #
I still don't understand why people keep asking for Wi-Fi in a phone. It's the one most useless feature I can think of. BT is nice because of the BT accessories for phone. If I need internet, I have the GPRS (or edge or whatever network you use), and that's available virtually anywhere the network is available. If I want a fast connection with Wi-Fi, it means I usually in the office, which then means I have my powerbook with me.
RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
sub_tex @ 10/4/2004 6:03:49 PM #
If I want a fast connection with Wi-Fi, it means I usually in the office, which then means I have my powerbook with me.

That's because you don't live in a city with free wifi hotspots galore.

For you, yeah, wifi doesn't make sense. But there are plenty of us with free wifi up for grabs.

RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
alee @ 10/4/2004 6:58:10 PM #
> That's because you don't live in a city with free wifi hotspots galore.

I live in NYC with is filled with free WiFi hotspots. However, WiFi holds no appeal because it stops working when I leave the hotspot. With a Bluetooth phone, the connection is persistent, and the hand-offs are "soft". I can sit in an Amtrak train going 110mph from Philadelphia to NYC, and hold a steady connection with no drops. It works in cars, it works in offices, it works anywhere my phone works. That is true mobility.

WiFi is not for the mobile professional. It free you up from having to sit in the same place, but you're still confined to the boundaries of the hotspot. EDGE and EVDO are ultimately the answer for the true mobile professional.

WiFi-enabled handhelds do have their place, and if you spend your time at airports and Starbucks all the time, or if you're going to school and enjoy the luxury of a wireless campus, then maybe you're one of the many well served by it.

I travel 200 miles a day, carry a Blackberry, a BT phone and a T3, and have not given WiFi any thought to meet my mobile needs. However, I am enjoying lying on my couch using WiFi on my laptop.

RE: Want Crow with that Slap in the Face?
sub_tex @ 10/5/2004 11:26:56 AM #
I live in NYC with is filled with free WiFi hotspots.

WiFi is not for the mobile professional. It free you up from having to sit in the same place, but you're still confined to the boundaries of the hotspot.

The point isn't being tied to a wifi hotspot. It's that when you ARE in a hotspot, you can browse the net at regular speeds. Of course you have to leave the wifi whenever you get to wherever it is you're going, but if I was in a hotspot, I don't care if I had BT on my phone, I would be using the wifi.

It's insane to think that where I could be browsing at fast speeds I would use the slow GPRS.

So you need both in today's world. Wifi for when you have it. And the painfully slow GPRS for everywhere else.

EDGE and EVDO are ultimately the answer for the true mobile professional.

Edge and EVDO aren't even an affordable option right now.

I don't get why people think it's wifi or nothing. Wifi is the nice boost when you get it. And you suffer with the pathetic GPRS connections for everything else. In five years or so things will be different (hopefully with EDGE all over the place), but for now, it's double wireless to be truly mobile in any sort of comfort.

T5 Battery Rating Q

Mr T @ 10/4/2004 12:22:22 AM #
Ryan, are you sure about the battery power rating. It's not listed anywhere on palm's site. As a matter of fact there is no mention of battery life anywhere, not even the pdf spec sheet. This worries me.

RE: T5 Battery Rating Q
Admin @ 10/4/2004 12:33:20 AM #
yes, the 1300 mAH battery rating is correct, I was briefed by palmOne


RE: T5 Battery Rating Q
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:40:25 AM #
You probably don't want to comment, but you surely had to be giggling about all the hype @ PIC over this Yawner, huh?

Pat Horne;
RE: T5 Battery Rating Q
Mr T @ 10/4/2004 12:41:07 AM #
Did they mention anything about battery life. Is it quoted in minutes, hours, days(unlikely)?

RE: T5 Battery Rating Q
Admin @ 10/4/2004 12:43:15 AM #
I wasn't aware of the official T5 specs until late last week, so as always, it was entertaining following the discussions about the T5, come to think of it we first heard rumors about this handheld all the way back in January, we just thought it would be called the TE 2...

no mention of battery time or hours, I'm not supposed to get my review unit until sometime this week.


RE: T5 Battery Rating Q
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 1:01:50 AM #
I wonder if PalmOne really had this slated for the TE2, but Cobalt has been > difficult than expected and at some point they changed gameplans to get a T3 replacement to market b4 Saint Nick comes? No voice recorder is a shocker?

Pat Horne;
RE: T5 Battery Rating Q
Mr T @ 10/4/2004 1:51:17 AM #
according to infosync the battery is only 1100mah, what's the truth?

Mr. Mace, could you please indulge us....

ozz @ 10/4/2004 12:19:58 AM #
.....could you give us the "official" corporate explanation as to why WiFi was not integrated into this new T5 model? Even using the WiFi SD card, it will cost another $129.00 That brings the total to $528.00 not including other necessary accessories!

Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: Mr. Mace, could you please indulge us....
ozz @ 10/4/2004 12:27:01 AM #
....and could you also give the "official" corporate explanation as to why the voice recorder was not included in the T5? That is such a basic feature, I can't understand why it was left out.

Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: Mr. Mace, could you please indulge us....
Admin @ 10/4/2004 12:34:34 AM #
Michael Mace works for PalmSource, the operating system company, not palmOne.
RE: Mr. Mace, could you please indulge us....
ozz @ 10/4/2004 12:41:51 AM #
....sorry, my error. Instead, could Mr. Hawkins please indulge my two questions above?

Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: Mr. Mace, could you please indulge us....
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:42:31 AM #
Mace @ PSRC. Probably should ask him. P1 folks may be in hiding for a year or so.

Pat Horne;
RE: Mr. Mace, could you please indulge us....
JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2004 4:33:12 AM #
Jeff is the CTO. You should be asking a marketing person these questions.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

Adios Palm

superdork @ 10/4/2004 12:24:39 AM #
Well the coffin is sealed for Palm personally. I really was hoping for a winner here as Palm's OS does have something special about it, but function precedes form and I have to have wifi for work, so adios Palm and hello Dark Side (aka Dell X50) :(
No hard feelings, eh.
RE: Adios Palm
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:44:52 AM #
Superdork ... don't do it!

Patience is a virtue and boy how PalmOne has increased our virtue. Just wait a little and your WiFi device will be here. I promise that you'll have it by 2009!

Pat Horne;

RE: Adios Palm
superdork @ 10/4/2004 1:04:13 AM #
LOL, Pat you kill me!! :)
I will miss you guys.
RE: Adios Palm
rikster @ 10/4/2004 5:40:31 AM #
It's adios from me too. I'll be qiewing up for an X50 too. So much more bang for your buck.

PalmOne just about gave us a fart for our buck with the T5.

I waited for years for this model - all because I thought PalmOne wanted to fight off PPC.

RE: Adios Palm
Beavis @ 10/4/2004 8:31:10 AM #
My Loox 720 is in New York City, and will be delivered to me possibly later today, or more likely, tomorrow.

Been a real fun ride since '97 Palm, but you're out of gas.

RE: Adios Palm
ollieollie82 @ 10/4/2004 10:07:00 AM #
using palm since m500, and I'm switching too... this is a joke. Just sold my t3 in hopes of a better device, but its time to move on. Integrated Wifi is just too important these days. See you Palm, I feel stupid for ever sticking up for you.

RE: Adios Palm
tupai @ 10/4/2004 4:12:20 PM #
Woo hoo! here we go again. People claiming Palm is dead! Hmm didn't I hear this comment, like, 2 years ago (or in fact, any device that Palm released)... but how come the company is still there, alive and stock doing better?... *gasp* is it possible that people (who actually buy devices instead of whining about them and not ever buy one) actually like it?

RE: Adios Palm
AyDb @ 10/4/2004 4:34:33 PM #
Two years ago Palm market share was close to 80%. Now it's less than that of Pocket PC and has been continuously sliding.

RE: Adios Palm
InsGuy @ 10/7/2004 1:44:52 PM #
Exactly. This almost makes you think that P1 wants to concentrate on smartphones, etc..., not pdas. Palm's marketshare is sliding fast because of a lack of innovation, NOT giving features users / customers demand, and charging way to much for cheaply constructed devices.


All good things...

Very little new

alee @ 10/4/2004 12:27:52 AM #
What they're essentially selling is a T3 without a slider, more memory, and an (admittedly neat) USB drive emulator. Not enough change here to even consider letting go of my T3. Cobalt might have made it slightly more attractive... but probably still not enough to get my business.

Here's to hoping the Treo 650 will be more interesting.

RE: Very little new
Gekko @ 10/4/2004 12:32:29 AM #

This is a DOWNGRADE from the T3!

RE: Very little new
superdork @ 10/4/2004 1:05:06 AM #
I really hope they are making mucho denero (<-- hope I spelled that one correct) on the smart phone line, because this one is probably going to tank. People will see it, then look over at the T3 or TE and laugh out loud.
You know I would be wrong. This thing may sell like hot cakes to suckers. :P
RE: Very little new
tellit2be @ 10/4/2004 2:23:05 AM #
"dinero" i think...

Tell It 2 Be
RE: Very little new
kflowe @ 10/4/2004 6:25:57 AM #
The best feature of the T5 is that it prompted a $50 price reduction on the T3 (which is only really valuable if they fixed the digitizer drift problem and ther other problems of the T3).

Atari Portfolio > HP100lx > HP200lx > Palm IIIc > Palm 515 > Palm T|T3 > back to something that works like it should
RE: Very little new
kflowe @ 10/4/2004 6:25:57 AM #
The best feature of the T5 is that it prompted a $50 price reduction on the T3 (which is only really valuable if they fixed the digitizer drift problem and ther other problems of the T3).

Atari Portfolio > HP100lx > HP200lx > Palm IIIc > Palm 515 > Palm T|T3 > back to something that works like it should
RE: Very little new
kflowe @ 10/4/2004 6:25:57 AM #
The best feature of the T5 is that it prompted a $50 price reduction on the T3 (which is only really valuable if they fixed the digitizer drift problem and ther other problems of the T3).

Atari Portfolio > HP100lx > HP200lx > Palm IIIc > Palm 515 > Palm T|T3 > back to something that works like it should
RE: Very little new
kflowe @ 10/4/2004 6:25:57 AM #
The best feature of the T5 is that it prompted a $50 price reduction on the T3 (which is only really valuable if they fixed the digitizer drift problem and ther other problems of the T3).

Atari Portfolio > HP100lx > HP200lx > Palm IIIc > Palm 515 > Palm T|T3 > back to something that works like it should
RE: Very little new
kflowe @ 10/4/2004 6:25:57 AM #
The best feature of the T5 is that it prompted a $50 price reduction on the T3 (which is only really valuable if they fixed the digitizer drift problem and ther other problems of the T3).

Atari Portfolio > HP100lx > HP200lx > Palm IIIc > Palm 515 > Palm T|T3 > back to something that works like it should

Flash Drive

superdork @ 10/4/2004 12:31:14 AM #
Oh ya, and thanks insulting my intelligence by trying to sell me a $400 dollar flash drive!! :P
There is SOME new power here
JShoo @ 10/4/2004 12:33:44 AM #
The T5 has the latest xscale processor, as compared to the old xscale on the T3. Because of that, even though it is only clocked 4% faster, the T5 might be a noticably better performer.

The T5's new processor has power management modes which along with the 45% larger capacity battery and lower power flash ram should result in significantly better battery life

RE: Flash Drive
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:47:25 AM #

A friend of mine just bought a 128mb USB flash drive the other day for about $25 I thought. It is tiny and goes on a keychain.

PalmOne convieniently forgot to inform us that in order to use this earth-shaking 120mb flash drive breakthrough, that one must carry their proprietary sync cable around with them in order to do so. Pretty "Zenny" their PalmOne.

Yep, the battery issue seems well addressed and P1 should be commended on that. But the performance increase is a bit over the top. The T3 is an absolute screamer. More processing power for Palm OS 5 is about as useful as putting octane-boost in a Dodge Viper ... quite overkill.

Pat Horne;

The T3 makes me wait
JShoo @ 10/4/2004 1:00:23 AM #
I often have to wait 3 or 4 seconds when switching applications on the T3, which is not what I call fast. On my desktop computer, I never wait for anything (dual Xeon, striped drives, ...). The T3 would be a much more pleasant system to use if P1 had chosen the top of the line 624 MHz processor.
RE: Flash Drive
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 1:22:48 AM #

What on earth are you running on your T3, MS Server 2004?

I have some delays when an app touches SD, but normally even a the Bible with 5 translations, 2 commentaries and more takes less than 1 second from Docs2Go etc. Now, if the app has to access the card it's another story, but not a processor story.

Pat Horne;

RE: Flash Drive
cbowers @ 10/4/2004 5:34:58 AM #
"A friend of mine just bought a 128mb USB flash drive the other day for about $25 I thought. It is tiny and goes on a keychain."

Now if PalmOne had only added USB host support, and a Mass storage device driver, you could use that cheap flash drive on your PDA, instead, we have functionality which is already available on current PalmOS devices via 3rd party software.

Upselling, under-providing...

RE: Flash Drive
a_nonamiss @ 10/4/2004 8:50:10 AM #

I often have to wait 3 or 4 seconds when switching applications on the T3, which is not what I call fast. On my desktop computer, I never wait for anything (dual Xeon, striped drives, ...). The T3 would be a much more pleasant system to use if P1 had chosen the top of the line 624 MHz processor.


I'd say with about 95% certainty that it's your SD card. I noticed the same thing on my T3 when I was using a Sandisk SD card. I think when you switch back to the launcher, the OS scans the card for applications. When I "Upgraded" to a Lexar card, that 3-5 second delay went down to < 1 second. (I'm not exaggerating.)


Palm Pilot 1000 > Palm Pilot Professional > Palm III > Palm M100 > Sony Clié PEG-T415 > Palm T|T3

YAHM was the problem
JShoo @ 10/5/2004 8:57:02 PM #
Thanks for your tips about slow T3

It turns out the problem was a freeware OS5 hack master, YAHM, and a hack for small fonts. No only was it slowing things down but it was causing the system noise to repeat multiple times.

That to me is one of the most serious problems in the Palm, and one that P1 could fix very cheaply: the lack of small fonts. Sure, third party apps have small fonts built in, but a lot of those apps use "notes" which use only the system's built-in fonts.

Few things make tiny screens more usable than small fonts, yet Palm does not provide.

RE: Flash Drive
mikecane @ 10/6/2004 8:55:39 AM #
Sony provided them. Who knows why p1 doesn't? Sure, they're not all readable, but they're sure handy when you want to see an *entire* paragraph at once to highlight and copy/cut/paste.

Now What???

DonPaqui @ 10/4/2004 12:36:45 AM #
This would be a downgrade from my TH-55... With Sony out and Palm not innovating..... Is it time to turn to the dark side???

RE: Now What???
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:58:37 AM #
I'm afraid your sentements will occur more times than we can imagine.

Pat Horne;
RE: Now What???
rikster @ 10/4/2004 5:44:38 AM #
Yes, the dark side !!

It is time to cross to the dark side my son !

RE: Now What???
Strider_mt2k @ 10/4/2004 6:21:19 AM #

Lash out with your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!


AyDb @ 10/4/2004 12:37:14 AM #
"The Tungsten T5 is the first new model from palmOne to feature the Multi-connector, a new common connector for palmOne products. Going forward this will be the new standard palmOne connector."

Yeah? For how many months? Some of us still remember this line when it was used in reference to the "Palm Universal Connector."

RE: Multi-connector
IanJD @ 10/4/2004 12:45:48 AM #
In May 2001, on the release of the m505, Palm stated that they would use the Universal Connector for at least two years on all its models.

RE: Multi-connector
hkklife @ 10/4/2004 12:57:52 AM #
UC was announced in May '01. Zire was announced/launched in Oct '02. So that's barely over a year that "all new Palms" came with the UC before they dropped the ball on their "almost-a-standard" connector. He11, P1 cannot even standardize on the placement for their AC & mini USB plugs on the new models (some are on the side, some are on the top, some are on the bottom). If they'd at least agree on THAT, they could sell a cradle to all of the existing Zire owners out there clamoring for one!

RE: Multi-connector
AyDb @ 10/4/2004 1:48:42 AM #
Not to mention the fact that compatibility was broken between the m5xx universal connectors and the Tungsten universal connectors because of changes they made to the TT.

RE: Multi-connector
hkklife @ 10/4/2004 2:16:13 AM #
Ooh, that's right. I nearly forgot about the "Rev 1" UC and the OS5 "Rev 2" UC. In fact, some peripherals I used without a hitch on my T|T & T|T2 were kinda loose on my T3 (Namely, my Supplynet cable).

Does anyone know if serial communication has been preserved in the new MC/Athena? Losing RS232 connectivity will be another blow to the long-time Palm users who rely on batcode scanners for industrial/warehousing/inventory applications as well as those in the healthcare fields or in corporations were NT/Win 95 are still widely deployed.

Looks like my fears last year WERE right that the T3 was the last "real" Palm ever! So close to being perfect it was!!!! Since we stopped seeing that little blue Jewel logo it's been nothing but misery!!

RE: Multi-connector
Admin @ 10/4/2004 12:01:02 PM #
I'm sure you could do a virtual serial port via bluetooth, but whether it remains in the cable is to be seen
RE: Multi-connector
feranick @ 10/6/2004 5:48:09 PM #
I am still struggling with the decision to go for this multi-connector. In my opinion a simple power cable and a miniUSB plug would have been a much easier setup. Now we have this (again) proprietary cable that you have to carry around with you if you want to use the new feature of the T5. Double disappointment. Not only the T5 is not fully wireless (no WiFi that is) but it is actually more "wired" than it really should be.

Actually T5 is good for me

Cheetah @ 10/4/2004 12:39:15 AM #
I have a T/E. I didn't buy a T3 because of poor battery life and I didn't like the slider.

However, I want a powerful PDA (T/E was the first PDA that I bought that wasn't top of the line).

So the T5 is good (not great) for me. I plan to upgrade in November. I hope the battery life is greatly improved, and I am looking forward to the larger non-slider screen and big memory. Nice touch that the T5 can be used as a flash drive also.

I also don't mind the current OS as I wasn't looking forward to all my apps breaking.

I can understand the disappointment of those with the T3.

What I don't like is--
- no wifi
- yet another new connector
- same form factor as T/E?
- seems expensive at $400. Seems more like a $325 PDA.

RE: Actually T5 is good for me
Rebel1 @ 10/4/2004 12:50:54 AM #
Count me in for one too. I bought a Tungsten T the day it was released and haven't regretted it yet.

This will be a nice upgrade for my 2 year old PDA.

And yes, I'll pay the extra for the wifi card, so I can have the PDA I've been waiting for.

I think there are a lot of others out there like me that will buy a lot of these.

RE: Actually T5 is good for me
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:55:59 AM #
Cheetah & Rebel,
I agree with you both that the T5E2 is attractive in your cases. Although, P1 will get very little T3 or darkside upgrades.

Pat Horne;
RE: Actually T5 is good for me
s_teve @ 10/4/2004 2:29:42 PM #
the only way that palmone can influence our interests is the battery life. I think anyway that if the T5 had a major battery life then the public would consider this a proper upgrade.

Great PDA if you don't have a recent one

godschoice @ 10/4/2004 12:44:57 AM #
The T5 will be a great device for those who have a non-wireless, non-Palm OS 5.0 device or non-color device. If you have a T3 or similar device you will be hard pressed to find a reason to go out and grab it. I love Bluetooth and use it daily. I would love to be able to use WIFI when the opportunity presents itself (WIFI is faster than Bluetooth in many cases). I am glad to see a full 320x480 color screen without the slide. I (being a T3 owner) will have to wait until the Cobalt and dual wireless device is released.

Carl Brooks

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

Type to you later,


Business VS Consumer.

statik @ 10/4/2004 12:55:10 AM #
As a consumer machine, this fails to excite me. No WiFi, No Camera, no voice recorder, square dpad...

For a business machine though, this should be great. Lots of internal space to store big corporate databases, decent battery, big easy to see screen, bluetooth for wireless printing and of course, the failsafe memory.

I've had clients lose an entire days worth of data entry from accidently letting the batteries die on their palms, so the flash memory alone is worth the price in my books.

As for everybody moaning about what's missing? This model wasn't aimed at the I-want-everything-and-the-kitchen-sink crowd. It was aimed at the IT department manager who wants to deploy a unit that is easy to support and offers a good way of capturing data. Looks like a pretty good fit to me.

RE: Business VS Consumer.
ss1543 @ 10/4/2004 1:14:18 AM #
Not at $400, way to much money for the features this thing offers. Get a TE and a USB drive and save yourself a couple of hundred bucks.

RE: Business VS Consumer.
hkklife @ 10/4/2004 1:30:00 AM #
With coupons/careful shopping, I am sure a T3 can be had for ~$300-$325 online shipped. Add $20-$25 for a 256mb SD card and about the same for a cheap 256mb keychain USB drive and you have much, much more versatility and storage space than you would on the T5. You still get your metal housing, UC & a cradle, voice recorder and the slider (like it or not). There's simply no comparison between the above rig and a T5.

Were the T5 called a T|E2 and priced at $300, it'd be a pretty decent unit. I could even live with the short-term fact that the T|E2 would be in a few areas "better" than the T3 and T|C. However, I simply cannot forgive P1 for having the audacity and arrogance to call this a T|Tx and to price it so high and include so little in the box. If you think it's overpriced now, just wait until spring '05 before the first official price drop. 1gb SD card will be super-cheap by then and the T5 will look even more foolish. This thing should simply be $300 at most now and be at $250 by the time the OS6 units come next spring.

RE: Business VS Consumer.
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 2:00:28 AM #
hkklife ... that's well said.

Pat Horne;
RE: Business VS Consumer.
statik @ 10/4/2004 9:39:11 AM #
Guys, your missing the point. It isn't the built in flash drive that will impress my clients, it is the fact that even if the batteries die, all the information on the Palm is still there.

Too many of them have been caught with a dead battery and lost hours worth of data entry. No other handheld (except the now gone Sony UX-50) keeps your data alive if the batteries die.

RE: Business VS Consumer.
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 10:10:59 AM #
That is a nice feature and a first I think.

Pat Horne;
RE: Business VS Consumer.
PalmAddict @ 10/4/2004 10:11:05 AM #
Uh, no.

This is the point that everyone has missed. The "protected" memory that PalmOne is referring to is the 160 MB imbedded SD card, NOT the 55 MB of "application" memory, which is still standard RAM. It's all spin doctoring. This is nothing more than a 64 MB device with a built in SD card. You can't even access the 64 MB from the USB connector. You still need to sync to put files in the "application" memory.

RE: Business VS Consumer.
statik @ 10/4/2004 10:55:51 AM #
From the (Canadian) Product Datasheet:

"The handheld that doesn't forget. Thanks to flash memory, the information on your handheld is saved even if the power runs down. So your data is safe even when you're on the go and you don't have time to recharge or sychronize".

PalmAddict; It's hard to say if this is just spin or not. I really hope they aren't just talking about the 160 meg flash drive. Guess we will have to wait for the reviews to find out for sure.

RE: Business VS Consumer.
Take1 @ 10/4/2004 8:27:18 PM #
This is not really a 'first' as the new HP VGA model PPC does the same thing with it's memory architecture. If anything, HP's beaten P1 to the punch since they are shipping right now.

movin on

ss1543 @ 10/4/2004 1:01:36 AM #
No Wifi, old OS. Nope I think it's time to move on. I have been with Palm since the first Palm Pilot came out (turned in the Sharp ZR-5000)and never looked back. But this is so much money for so few features. I currently have a Tungsten C and it's been good to me, but I want the larger screen. However, the Wifi on the C is great, sit on the couch and read the news. For $400 I would expect wifi, bluetooth, and the new OS. The Dell X30 at $297 keeps trying to lure me away and maybe it's time. I would say that over half of the users I support are now using Pocket PC devices. Microsoft always wins in the end, but maybe there is always a reason.

RE: movin on
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 1:28:42 AM #
Ohhhh why does this have to happen? Ugggggggh.

Pat Horne;
Is the Palm really behind the PPCs?
JShoo @ 10/4/2004 2:23:30 AM #
I just hopped on over to Dell's web site and found that their currently shipping handheld has only half the resolution of the T3 & T5. Dell also charges extra for the cradle, like the T5.

The VGA iPAQs are just starting to get in people's hands. Sometimes I wonder if PalmOne is being held to an impossible standard, to beat not a single real live, shipping machine, but to beat an imaginary composite PPC which has the best features of every power PC which has ever shipped or been rumored to.

RE: movin on
Loui @ 10/4/2004 5:40:59 AM #
"imaginary composite PPC"? Check out the Fujitsu Siemens Loox 720; VGA-screen, Wifi, bluetooth, 1.3mpx camera, dual slots (GRPS CF-Card..), better cpu, better battery, etc, and its almost the same price as the Tungsten T5... I want the PPC hardware but the Palm OS :-(

RE: movin on
AyDb @ 10/4/2004 1:51:10 PM #
"I just hopped on over to Dell's web site and found that their currently shipping handheld has only half the resolution of the T3 & T5. Dell also charges extra for the cradle, like the T5."

Actually the cradle comes standard with the high-end Axim, which starts at $260 with its 624 MHz processor, dual wireless, and removable battery. That's four features that the $400 T5 lacks. You named one feature that the $260 X30 lacks, and try to claim that they're even.

RE: movin on
JShoo @ 10/5/2004 5:04:04 AM #
On Dell's web site just now I had to chose the $349 model to get the cradle included for no extra charge. Went in as small business.

RE: movin on
JShoo @ 10/5/2004 5:07:38 AM #
The Fujitsu is not available in the US, so it doesn't do me any good.

"Unfortunately, there's bad news for U.S. consumers: the Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket Loox 720 and the Toshiba e830 won't be released in this country. Both of these are on sale in Europe now, though."
-- Brighthand

Average Consumer Time

superdork @ 10/4/2004 1:10:11 AM #
Ok, here is why this so called upgrade is rattling my chains.
$400.00 gets you this…..and I stress this as I’m not sure what the heck to think of it.
Say you want wifi? Another $129 bucks thank you very much.
Ok now we have the Palm device everyone was expecting coming in around $530 bucks.

Now let’s take a look at Pocket PC
Dark Side:
Dell Axim X50 (should be released before the month is out) $500 bucks.
We get wifi, Bluetooth, VGA screen, SD expansion and even CF expansion.
You won’t have a card sticking out the top of your device.
You can get even cheaper expansion with CF
The size is actually a bit smaller
Integrated Intel 16MB graphics adapter (gaming powerhouse here)
Contrary to popular belief around here, Windows Mobile 2003 SE stock is just as stable as a Palm OS

Oh and almost forgot. We have to make this fair so I’ll throw in a 256MB flash drive that I’m sure you can get for about $30 bucks after rebates just about anywhere on the internet.

Inovation or ripoff. You decide. 

RE: Average Consumer Time
superdork @ 10/4/2004 1:22:06 AM #
Oh crud, I almost also get a 624MHZ processor, voice recorder, and navigation buttons(ala jog dial) on the side.

RE: Average Consumer Time
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 1:30:30 AM #
THAT'S ENOUGH! I'm about to heeeeeavvveee!

Pat Horne;
RE: Average Consumer Time
Texonite @ 10/4/2004 7:43:30 PM #
I think, we should speak about it when it begins to ship...

Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(


sremick @ 10/4/2004 1:15:56 AM #
While this is a nice unit, and definite a step forward... it is a baby step. It is NOT what I'd expect from the Tungsten T line... nor what I'd expect for $400.

I have to echo the other comments: No WiFi? No OS6? And (dare I say it)... no slider?


I really think that Palm could have done tremendously better here. This should've been the Tungsten E2, not the T5.

This has been not only anticlimatic, but a serious let-down. I'll probably get one... but only because my T3 was lost/stolen. Or maybe I'll just get another T3. :(">">

RE: Eh...
sremick @ 10/4/2004 2:23:39 AM #
And it's PLASTIC too, not metal?

Oh Palm, why have you forsaken me...? :(

I really really don't understand. THIS IS THE E2!!! IT DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE A TUNGSTEN T#!!!!!

Give me a metal Palm I can be proud to own again, PLEASE.

Plastic is too much. I think I'll pass on the T5, and get another T3 to replace my T3. :(">">


Gekko @ 10/4/2004 1:20:13 AM #

I bet this T5 has a case made out of that same cheap plastic that the TE is made out of.

RYAN/ADMIN - How come Palm gave you no test unit for review????????

p.s. Thanks for all your hard work on this site.

Admin @ 10/4/2004 1:34:05 AM #
Thanks Gekko. Yes, the T5 uses the same plastic and buttons as the TE, though it deos have a darker colored "gunmetal" metallic paint.

A review unit should be coming this week, palmOne is just getting them in. It is a departure from past releases when the product was available at retail at the time of the announcement.

phoneboy @ 10/4/2004 2:10:45 AM #
They should keep plastic in the Zire line, and Metal in the Tungsten line. Tungsten IS a metal.

wondertwinzz @ 10/7/2004 2:35:30 AM #
Tungsten *was* a metal. A little reverse alchemy and poof! Palm produces the PLASTIC "TUNGSTEN" T5. Periodic Tables everywhere are thrown into elemental chaos.... Oxygen and Hydrogen suddenly decide, "To heck with being gasses! We want to be something...something else!" They interlock fumey fingers and run off together, desperately searching for a little bit o' that special PalmOne marketing magic...

P.S. Gets lots of agua while you can, folks. If PalmOne gets a hold of the other elements, we're all screwed.

RE: Great Analysis
Strider_mt2k @ 10/4/2004 10:53:42 AM #
Good article!


icesalmon1 @ 10/4/2004 1:36:53 AM #
T5 IS TE2. I own a T3 and excited to get a T5 as long as it has adequate update, even only with a higher capaciy battery. This "T5" is basically a T3 screen on a TE. I have been a Palm user for 4 years, this T5 really disappointed me.

LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 2:33:51 AM #
Looks like they shooda named it T4 after all and sold it exclusively in the Asian market. At least they could have blamed it on marketing.

Pat Horne;

Looks like the T3 is the last real handheld from palmOne

cypher76 @ 10/4/2004 1:20:39 AM #
'Upgrades', T3 to T5:
Insignificant processor increase
Insignificant memory increase (arguable)
Improved battery life
Cosmetic GUI changes
Non-slider design (positive for some)

Downgrades, T3 to T5:
Loss of ALL UC accessories
Loss of high-quality stylus
Loss of voice recorder
Loss of LED charge indicator light
Loss of front-mounted speaker
Loss of vertical flip cover
Loss of quality case material
Loss of organic button layout, rounded d-pad
Loss of slider (increase in pocketed size, elimination of quick power-on method)
Loss of voice recorder hard-button (commonly programmed to launch "applications" a.k.a. the launcher, similar to Sony back button functionality)

Impact on T3 Users Looking to Upgrade:
-Little to no reason to upgrade because of hardware downgrades
-Little to no reason to upgrade from OS5.2 to OS5.4
-Less reason to stay with palmOne because all UC accessories will NEVER function with future palmOne devices

New PLEATHER flip cover!
Gekko @ 10/4/2004 1:55:04 AM #

You gotta love high quality genuine imitation faux PLEATHER!!!!!!!!!

RE: Looks like the T3 is the last real handheld from palmOne
superdork @ 10/4/2004 1:56:47 AM #
Ok a little perspective here.
For quite a few years now these little devices have been with me everywhere I go. They’ve saved my bacon on more than one occasion and have the outline of my life.
My contacts contain my associates and friends, my calendar shows the outline of days gone by and days to come, my notes contain simple thoughts to grand ideas, and it even holds pictures that tell thousands of stories.
These little devices have been indispensable for some and almost like a friend to others. Though it is simply an electronics device devoid of thought and personality it has over the years been the bearer of so much information about who we are and who we want to be.
With the above thoughts in mind it is no wonder we’ve become attached to the way we view this information. Many of us feel a loyalty to Palm and expect a certain amount of mutual respect and trust when it comes to our devices design. I have a feeling many of us feel they have betrayed and feel that trust has been abused. This is why many of us are so vocal.
Perspective is a necessary vision and change is always good, but can be unpleasant at times, but this is only an electronics device. We’ll still be the same people with the same plans, associates, and friends whether this device is a dud or not.

Now for some answers.
Why is this the Tungsten T5?
I think we are all frustrated because we know that this is probably the end of our little friends in their current incarnation.
PalmOne either
A. Cannot afford the R&D to develop both standard PDAs and Smartphones.
B. Chooses not to spend R&D dollars on PDAs as they see Smartphones are the future
C. Is really really greedy
D. Honestly thought this thing is what we really wanted.
E. Mix and match some of the above.

The FACT still remains that we are getting very upset with a electronics device. I realize this and will simply switch to a PPC. As painful a change this may be and as odd a way to look at my daily life, it seems at this point the writing is on the wall and this is a necessary change.

OK, that was a pretty lame little rant, but you get the idea. 

RE: Looks like the T3 is the last real handheld from palmOne
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 2:06:08 AM #
cypher76 & Superdork,

Those 2 posts need to appear on the frontpage of Actually, I'm sure Dell & HP have already copied them to their websites.

Pat Horne;

The handheld lives
JShoo @ 10/4/2004 2:47:08 AM #
I don't think P1 has given up on handhelds. After all 70% of the units P1 sold last quarter were non-phone handhelds.

This was just a marketing and financial decision made in late 2004 for reasons we may never know. That doesn't say anything certain about the future.

One possibility for T5 is that PalmOne did a lot of development on Cobalt, but then found out that it wasn't ready for prime time, as evidenced by PalmSource's recent release of a new OS6 version. So maybe P1 had to then scramble and release this.

Even if it is aggravating, there is a certain business advantage to shipping a separate wireless card instead of bundling it in. That way people don't have to buy what they don't want. Prices can be cut instantly but engineering takes time. So P1 can start out with the T5 & wireless card at current list price, and if they don't sell can instantly cut the prices.

All in all, no one knows what the spring or next October will bring.

RE: Looks like the T3 is the last real handheld from palmOne
digichimp @ 10/4/2004 3:42:48 PM #
I'm surprised by all this negative reaction to a device. PalmOne is a business going after a market segment. T5 is just one of their PDAs in their overall lineup. I'm sure there are more down the road. I hope all those jumping ship will miss the PalmOS fondly. Appreciation often comes from absence in hindsight.

RE: Looks like the T3 is the last real handheld from palmOne
raak @ 10/4/2004 5:44:41 PM #
This is a very good thread. To answer digichimp, I think the disappointment lies in the fact that the T series has been up until now Palm's flagship handheld line. You want cheap or consumer-focused (read: limited), get a Zire. You want a low end, simple business handheld? Get an E. You want cutting edge? Get a T. So, PalmOne has set its brand up that way. When they roll out the flagship product, we expect it to be just that.

I too was hoping for WiFi and OS 6. When the phone companies get into WiFi, not just little niche markets, this proves that there's something to it. I think the flagship handheld from PalmOne doesn't need to be packed with silly features, which in theory has been Palm's mantra, but I think it has to be relevant and take the pulse of the current state of technology. I'm sorry to say that this handheld does not. I won't abandon the Palm ship (just as I hadn't when getting the crappy m505) as I think it does the organizing thing well (that's really why I own one, let's not forget), but I'm definitely cynical about this handheld!!! Let's see what their next move will be!!


RE: Looks like the T3 is the last real handheld from palmOne
cypher76 @ 10/5/2004 1:14:45 AM #
I've owned a T3 since January, and while it's a great PDA (probably the best ever produced by Palm), it has its issues, and won't stand the test of time like some of their earlier products (my old Palm III and Palm V still work flawlessly). Luckily, I got a 2 year extended warranty from CC, and I'm on my third T3 (soon to be fourth, the screen is significantly dimmer than my original).

I was hoping to eventually have my T3 replaced by what we thought would be the T4, a device similar to the T3 but with WiFi, larger battery/better power management, and other logical, incremental upgrades. By changing connectors and form factors, there is no logical upgrade path offered by Palm any longer. The Treo 650 is the only new device that's moderately interesting, but judging by Palm's current marketing department, it's unlikely they can make the major carriers (Verizon, Cingular) have it ready for sale when the device is officially launched. If the Treo 650 was available for sale around the holidays on Verizon and Cingular, then Palm might have a chance at surviving, but it's doubtful...

Echo of Dissatisfaction

kleung21 @ 10/4/2004 1:55:07 AM #
Hi there,

It really is too bad that Sony is gone as they have always pushed Palm to progress. But this is a disappointment to me and I will not be upgrading to it.

I've owned Palm IIIxe, V, m5050, T1 and Sony SJ-30 and Handspring Visor Deluxe.

I was eagerly awaiting for a unit like this with WIFI but since there will be none; I'm going to skip this $400 device. I refuse to shell out another $100 for an external WiFI card that (total price $500+!) for what is essentially a TE2.

AND the worse part is that their TREO 650 (when it comes out) will probably not be available in wide release for another year!

Palm has missed out on this user for ANOTHER upgrade cycle. If they put in enough innovation, I'm one of those guys that would willingly pay for a palm EACH year.

They just incorporated a SD card into a palm unit... I like the new form factor (no slider) as I've had tons of problems with digitizer drift due to the slider construction.

C'est la vie...


Seeing is disbelieving

Foo Fighter @ 10/4/2004 2:24:09 AM #
After viewing images of the T5 for the first time, I found myself wishing for the earlier T3/T|C hybrid hoax or one of Pat Horne's photoshop jobs. My head is still spinning from disappointment, as I lay in a fetal position crying myself to sleep. Pleasant dreams.

Contributing Editor,

Ryan -- Is palmOne SEEING this??

Patrick @ 10/4/2004 2:52:09 AM #
Surely, they're reading the first reactions as much as the rest of us. They can't be too happy. There's only a tiny minority here who seem to think the T5 is a worthwhile acquisition.

Are you getting any reaction from them, Ryan?

RE: Ryan -- Is palmOne SEEING this??
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 10:15:39 AM #
I would say that the P1 folks are traveling with Osama's caravan right now. Poor shareholders?

Pat Horne;
RE: Ryan -- Is palmOne SEEING this??
Admin @ 10/4/2004 11:57:30 AM #
I can tell you that I hear all the time that palmOne and palmSource employes frequent the site and pay close attention to the discussions. I've also offered my services as a future design consultant ;0
RE: Ryan -- Is palmOne SEEING this??
Patrick @ 10/4/2004 1:02:29 PM #
I read that one of the reasons Cobalt is not in the T5 is due to the long lead time required to produce a new device. If this is true, then P1 is already well into the design of the T7 (no Palm VI so I'm supposing there will be no T6, either).

Any chance of influencing the design of the T7 is therefore at hand today. Let's let them know what we want, if they haven't already heard. For me, it is:

- Keep the T5's form factor as much as possible... it looks to be a good one.
- Bring back the voice recorder.
- Build-in WiFi
- Include a replacable battery.
- Price it no higher than $450 but include a cradle, dammit!!

I mean, if you're going to change connectors on us, don't go making it worse by not including a cradle, for Pete's sake. That kind of obvious profiteering is extremely irritating. We know it doesn't cost you $30 (MSRP) to build a cradle... more like $5-$10 I would guess.

Such a machine would be a winner like you wouldn't believe. You would get tons of new buyers, T3 upgrades galore, and a whack of converts and returnees from the Dark Side.

RE: Ryan -- Is palmOne SEEING this??
Wollombi @ 10/4/2004 3:21:58 PM #

I don't like what I see in T5. I've used PalmOS PDA's for years, and I'd easily trade off my T3 for the "T7" that Patrick describes, althought I'd like it to be contained in an annodized aluminum shell.


Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.


kurtfoster @ 10/4/2004 4:09:29 AM #
My life is over - just kidding. Seriously, just wait, we'll see one with all we want. I can wait.

Palm's secret strategy

grahamnind @ 10/4/2004 3:50:11 AM #
The T5 seems to be a great disappointment, but don't lose heart, as I am about to reveal Palm's secret strategy which has been disclosed in a vision to me.

First consider the facts.

1. Palm could easily have put Wifi into this new handheld. The technology has been there since the T/C.

2. R&D is very costly, so Palm have only been pretending to be doing it.

3. Palm and PPC now run on the same processors.

Now turn to the Bible. 2 verses are key
"The whole world lies in the grip of the evil one" 1 John 5v19, but "The earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" Habakkuk 2v14

Here's the revelation:
OS6 will be an upgrade to PPC. Palm have infiltrated Microsoft, Dell, Compaq etc. On Jan 1st 2005, all PocketPCs will begin to secretly connect to the internet and download OS6. PPC users will wake up and find their machines have upgraded to OS6. There will be no way to reverse this upgrade.

Why do it this way? They are saving huge amounts of money coz all the research and development will have been done by others. It truly is a master stroke.

So don't lose faith, brothers and sisters. It is always darkest before the dawn!

RE: Palm's secret strategy
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 10:18:38 AM #
I hope Hal Lindsey doesn't get ahold of this ... it will end up on TV or another book. Although, this makes about as much sense as releasing the T5 in this state.

Pat Horne;

650 or T5?

rkane @ 10/4/2004 4:12:44 AM #
I have a T3 with severe digitizer problems that appear un-correctable (but I also have a Staples protection plan) and have been waiting for this release to upgrade to a new Palm for free. The plan costs about $30 each time I upgrade, but it has allowed to to go from a T1 to a T3 not only for free, but I got a refund in the process. And now I'm ready to finally get rid of my problem digitizer unit. I hate the idea of a plastic case, but I've found that the slider is more of a hassle than a help, so I like the new design. I'm wondering if I should upgrade to the T5 or finally combine my phone and Palm and get a 650 when it appears. Any thoughts? Its probably like comparing apples and oranges, etc. And speaking of Apples, it has always seemed to me that for a Mac user, Palm was the PDA of choice. I almost can't imagine getting a PPC. Are there Mac users out there that also use PPCs?


RE: 650 or T5?
lesel @ 10/4/2004 9:30:27 AM #
I use Mac’s and Window's machines. I'm thinking about getting a PPC after being disappointed with the T5 release. Sync Software for Mac Users. (Products: The Missing Sync for Pocket PC: Missing Sync for Pocket PC enables you to connect and synchronize a Pocket PC handheld with a Mac running Mac OS X and is the first product to integrate your Pocket PC handheld with iTunes™ and iPhoto™, as well as synchronize calendar items, To Do items and contacts with the iCal and Address Book applications.


[Knuckles] @ 10/4/2004 5:34:37 AM #
Well I give palmone, like 10 more seconds to start screaming "APRIL FOOLS!!"...

My late z71 crapped on me, and i'd been waiting the entire week for the t5 to be announced to know if it'd be worth waiting for, or if i would have the $$$ to afford it.

Well, after these news I'm already on google doing some research on dell axim's and compaq ipaq's.

Nice meeting you palmone, and in case you're needing, I have a couple of extra nails to put in your coffin...

RE: Well...
[Knuckles] @ 10/4/2004 11:26:03 AM #
Just bought me a new ASUS Mypal pocket pc.

Guess I won't be coming back to this site very soon....


Sony, pls come back!!

Bunjay @ 10/4/2004 5:50:05 AM #
Now I really miss Sony...
I still refuse to accept that P1 can do this to us (or to themselves...) Surreal...

Please don't wake me - allow me to dream on.

Palm Tungsten T5 vs. Sony Clie TH55

mdquerng @ 10/4/2004 5:49:07 AM #
I bought a Clie TH55 almost a year ago for $350 ($399 SRP). It had 320x480 screen, vga camera, ms pro slot, integrated wi-fi, voice recorder, mp3 player, and fantastic battery life. I had it stolen last week and I was hoping that the T5 might be my new replacement however what a dissapointment from Palm. Almost a year later and this is what Palm has to show?

One of two things will happen now. Either I will defect to PPC or I will find a refurb TH55 in order to hang out with Palm OS during it's last few dying gasps. I've been a Palm user since my Palm Pilot Pro and I must say I cannot believe how badly a company can completely screwed up a market that has almost been handed to them on a platter.

Mirosoft will never beat Palm because they did a better job with PPC. Microsoft will beat Palm because Palm gave the market to them. I hope someone at Palm corporate is reading these posts and gets a clue fast. I've been the most loyal Palm user for all these years and I feel as though I am being forced to the PPC platform because of Palm's complete ignorance.

Felt good to get it off my chest;

RE: Palm Tungsten T5 vs. Sony Clie TH55
Strider_mt2k @ 10/4/2004 6:40:31 AM #
This T5 handheld is worthless to me because the hotels I stay at don't offer free Bluetooth access.
The airports I travel through don't offer Bluetooth access.

They offer WiFi access.


Aside from that, the rest of the offering is just plain weak.

Say what you want about the PEG-TH55, but it offers/offered versatility and usefulness that exceeds this thing.

The whole big deal about accessing the thing as a drive is a joke too.

With Sony gone, I guess I was looking for a shred of hope on the POS side.
Now it just looks like the POS side.

We will now all bear witness to the fall of Palm.
Let the decay begi, um... continue!

My next handheld will be radically different even from the TH55 I run now, I know that.
What I don't know is what operating system it will run.

RE: Palm Tungsten T5 vs. Sony Clie TH55
vike @ 10/4/2004 7:56:59 AM #

The fact that the manufacturer of the TH55 withdrew from the main market does tell us something. The fact that the T5 is .. err, underwhelming - if not a rebranded TE2 .. tells even more. PDA's seem to have been abandoned in favour of (let's at least hope this) "a family of Palm OS smartphones".

It's time to cross to the Dark Side !

rikster @ 10/4/2004 6:19:57 AM #
Hello fellow disenchanted Palm users :-

Here's a site to help you choose your new VGA PPC:-

Look ! - you can get a 624mhz Dell, with VGA, Bluetooth & WiFi for just $99 more than a PalmOne TE2 (Ooops, sorry T5).

RE: It's time to cross to the Dark Side !
Strider_mt2k @ 10/4/2004 6:51:04 AM #
Mmmmm, innovation

RE: It's time to cross to the Dark Side !
Jaimito @ 10/4/2004 7:41:18 AM #
The new Axim looks awesome in terms of price and feature.

I think I will wait until Xmas when the prices come down a bit. The only thing stopping me from getting a PPC is that the softwares I bought. But I think this might be the time to change, as the VGA screen really seem to make a huge diff, esp for reading.

RE: It's time to cross to the Dark Side !
Sweetlu @ 10/4/2004 7:55:46 AM #
wow!!! That Dell x50 looks nice. I really don't care for bluetooth. Maybe it is time to switch.

Casio B.O.S.S --> M100 --> Vx --> M505 --> T3 -->?

Yankees, Steinbrenner,...... I will never turn to the dark side.

RE: It's time to cross to the Dark Side !
statik @ 10/4/2004 1:53:29 PM #
Awesome hardware, shame about the OS.
RE: It's time to cross to the Dark Side !
Fernando @ 10/4/2004 8:23:56 PM #
Ihave been waiting too long to upgrade from my T|T1 .... honoustly, think about it.. palm has had now three attemtps to win me back as a customer, yet they keep producing the same qc troubled digitizer drift disabled crap! like come on, PalmONE, the former leader of the PDA market SHOULD have a better top of the line then this...

I'm sorry... but this is the last straw... Goodbye palm, hello Dell. It's quite unfortunate, since i'm the type of person that can buy a palm ever 6 months, if it was worthwhile the upgrade.

I would get a Tapwave Zodiac, however it is NOT available in Canada. Besides that it seems like it's the best pda that the pos has to offer. Good luck to tapwave, but chances are they won't make it that big until they go completely global. And once they do, their Zodiac will be completely out of date, and require innovation which is someting that i don't think the company has even thought about.

Enuf blabbering, farewell palm community :(

The "so dark it doesn't exist" side
JShoo @ 10/5/2004 9:08:21 PM #
There is one small catch with buying the Dell X50: it doesn't exist yet. In fact it hasn't even been announced!

The only fair comparison with the X50 is the Palm T6. Both are imaginary devices which can have whatever features we can dream of.

RE: It's time to cross to the Dark Side !
Jaimito @ 10/7/2004 11:07:56 PM #
If you do some research, you'll know X50 is about to ship this month (Oct 12 by most sources), next month the latest. It already has FCC certs. Since T5 is not shipping till another week or two, I will not jump the gun and buy T5 without checking out X50 first.

Message to PalmOne

Gekko @ 10/4/2004 7:48:49 AM #

Again, my message to PalmOne regarding this T5:

RE: Message to PalmOne
Konstantin @ 10/4/2004 11:50:52 PM #
If I am not mistaken, the same one who once said: "From my cold dead hands" while holding a....



Gekko @ 10/4/2004 7:52:28 AM #

This is the TE2 and a fair price is $199.


RE: $199
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:26:29 PM #

I would give them $249 and maybe $299 on a good day. Only because of the 256MB included. I would not expect the TE2 to have more than 64MB, a doubled upgrade and fair amount. At $249 for this new TE2, this board would be buzzin, PalmOne would be the rage, some would be disappointed in no flagship upgrade but excitement in the T5 would reign. Not the case.

Pat Horne;

RE: $199
Puppy @ 10/4/2004 8:24:22 PM #
I agree with the $199 price. Drop the silly flash RAM in this thing so it just has the normal 64MB, fix the reliability, sell it for $199-250, and they'd have themselves a good PDA.

It's Over

Quickster @ 10/4/2004 8:17:10 AM #
I have tried to remain loyal. I have been to counseling to get over my hatred for Microshaft and the PeePeeC. But this is the last straw. PalmOne has been unfaitful one time too many.

It was fun while it lasted and I tried. I really and honestly tried.

The loss more yours, Palm, than mine.

Palm T5

shep1549 @ 10/4/2004 8:11:42 AM #
Personally I think the T5 should be classified as a Super Zire. It uses the accessories of the 72 according to P1.

I currently have a T2 and have upgraded P7-M500-505M-TT-T2.
I dont mind the slider, but wouldn't miss it either. I am waiting for a palm that has dual sd slots, 320x480 rez, and wifi. I would accept BT2 because it is supposed to work with exisiting 802 ap's. But I haven't heard of any that work.

I am not even considering the T5. What it does, I already have software that allows the same thing. Flash memory, duh, again I already have it with sw. Altho it would be good if the palm itself would support it like the pc does, i.e. run programs from any directory. And yes I know there is software that does this. But it does not work reliably.

As far as the voice recorder and camera. Well lets just say I am an IT person. Besides it is already on my cell. I consider it bloated hw. Speakers, thats all I need is another device make noises. I have mine turned off, (saves on battery too).

Extended battery, duh, give me a replacable battery and I will buy 2 or 3 and have a better extended system. Course would have to have an independant battery charger too.

As far as going to a WinCE device, no thanks. I have to support MS for my PC. I won't give Bill anymore room to screw my IT life up than nessecary.


New T5 - Where's the built in camera Palm1?

m130fullbutcontent @ 10/4/2004 7:57:14 AM #
I suspect - as others have touched on this is a rushed product launch - the kind of fumbled, rushed out in desperation product that smacks of corporate management who are not 'on the ball';on the the same planet as many of their customers - or I suspect many of their employees.

The quality of the PalmOne website launch pages make it look like this product's development has not been anything like on time and hence the lack of proper T5 product'run through tours' and the duff information- there's not even a 3D view yet. They have actually got a built digital camera being listed in the specs on the T5....(somehow I don't think there is one)'s the link to check :

The fact that the briefing given said that the T5 will be available from early November and the Palm1 site says ' AVAILABILITY:
Usually ships in 7 - 14 full bus. days.' further suggests all has not been going well.

It does indeed seem a clear Palm E2 type product with it's lack of a voicerecorder.

I also think that putting the form like a TE - one on the worst models for quality control problems in their line up if web reviews are anything to go by - is a gaffe too.

Well even I think PPC might yet get my custom one day. The writing does indeed look on the wall unless Palm 1 don't wake up big time. They'll never catch up with the likes of Nokia et all on the phone business cos even when they make a winner like the treo 600 etc they waste the benefit by no-one being able to get one until it's getting old....If you don't make & sell enough where's the money coming from ? When they make something so good but don't make enough for the market.....nails & coffins...spring to mind

Still everyone hated the Zire & Zire 21 & look how that sold.
Time will tell.

I'll have to upgrade to a TT3 before they work another marketing wonder-blunder and discontinue it....

Cameras do not fly in the corporate market
alee @ 10/4/2004 9:31:53 AM #
While I do think the T5 specs are very weak, in their defense it is a very smart move not to include a camera on a corporate-market targeted PDA. Much like camera phones, PDAs with cameras are on the restricted list at a growing number of companies.

Last thing PalmOne needs is a reason to be excluded from this market.

RE: New T5 - Where's the built in camera Palm1?
songdog @ 10/4/2004 9:44:09 AM #
Still, it's kind of funny that they're listing it as a feature this morning.

RE: New T5 - Where's the built in camera Palm1?
T. @ 10/4/2004 9:54:40 AM #
Where are they listing it as a feature? They only say you can take the photo files with you.

Thank goodness, no camera. I agree with the restrictions mentioned since I already go to places where I cannot take my phone in. With Verizon I had no choice about having a camera since I wanted bluetooth.

RE: New T5 - Where's the built in camera Palm1?
m130fullbutcontent @ 10/4/2004 10:29:10 AM #
Unless palmOne have now amended the web concerned by copying the link given into your browser and looking under 'Key Specs' towards the bottom of the page you'll see :
'• Built-in Digital Camera: Yes '
-as one of the features listed. I was more commenting on the apparent -in my opinion- lack of preparedness for the launch judging by the standerds of the web pages. I can understand the point about corporate concerns re a camera being built in. Perhaps the removal of the voice memo is for not entirely disimilar reasons- have too many bosses (who would authorise corporate purchases) have been caught out by having sneekily recorded voice memos played back to them showing they said things they later tried to deny.....(call me a cynic). Fears of coporate spying could be a reason too I suppose.

This is definitely a unit where the marketing men have held sway over the innovators. Plastic shells must be more profitable than metal...If they make profits with this perhaps they can placate those who want more features by doing a real TT3 gizmo machine replacement..

RE: New T5 - Where's the built in camera Palm1?
T. @ 10/4/2004 11:45:00 AM #
No sorry, I just missed it. What a problem that is with the web page. I guess this will spark another round of law suits.

I haven't run into the voice recorder issue yet but I guess that will not be far behind the camera restrictions if the abuse of that capability gets widespread notoriety.

The camera craze has been a real inconvenience to a lot of professionals. I may actually rip my Motorola phone apart to take the camera out.

Unreasonable Expectations

a_nonamiss @ 10/4/2004 9:06:21 AM #
Frankly, I am kinda tired of reading people bashing P1 for this unit. Sure, it's not revolutionary, but it's an improvement, especially on battery life. I don't really think the T3 needed a whole lot of improvement, (again, battery life) and I don't think this was intended to "unseat" the T3. I'm in the (seeming) minority of people who don't need WiFi, don't want WiFi and frankly could care less if P1 ever makes a WiFi radio on their devices. I get along just fine with Bluetooth and my Motorola v710. I can browse the Internet, get my email, and do everything I want Internet-wise.

So I'm willing to admit that Dell devices still may have higher tech specs, but honestly, until they can run PalmOS, I'm not the slightest bit interested. PPC sucks. It's not stable, it's a resource hog. It has more moving parts, and having supported both PPC and POS, can say without hesitation that POS is still far superior.

In conclusion to my long rant that nobody will read, I'm _not_ going to say "Way to go PalmOne!" but on the other hand, I don't think this is a miserable failure. I think that everyone's expectations were simply too high, and mostly unreasonable. If P1 had come out with a device with WiFi, people would complain about battery life. If it had a voice recorder, people would complain that it turned the device on in their pockets. I feel bad because I think that Palm couldn't have satisfied people after having such a long break since their last release. And to those of you still reading, no I don't work for Palm. :)


Palm Pilot 1000 > Palm Pilot Professional > Palm III > Palm M100 > Sony Clié PEG-T415 > Palm T|T3

RE: Unreasonable Expectations
songdog @ 10/4/2004 9:44:52 AM #
Frankly, this is a perfectly reasonable device. As many people have said here this is a logical update of Tungsten E. You get the larger screen, Bluetooth, and upgrades in most other specs. As a replacement for the E this model has a natural niche. I was actually waiting for just such an upgrade. But why, oh why, did they screw up the pricing? At the E's price of $200 they'd sell more of these than they could manufacture. Even at $300 they might do OK. This transparent and desperate recasting of an E2 as the T5 is a huge mistake.

RE: Unreasonable Expectations
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 10:30:02 AM #
It's bewildering. Why did they not just release this as a TE2 upgrade @ $249 and maybe a little less memory? I have a thread over on the Palmsource discussion board asking if it because of OS6. Sony jumped when OS6 came, Palm stumbled and still w/out. Hmmmm?

Pat Horne;
RE: Unreasonable Expectations
m130fullbutcontent @ 10/4/2004 10:50:10 AM #
a_nonamiss I think what you say is very valid and time will tell how this works out.I think the reason for so many unfavourable comments is that the TT has been such an innovative series it was hard to follow with another such unit. Add to this that this website is one which attracts so many enthusiasts of gizmos and innovation who obviously want to remain loyal to a better handheld OS that Palm OS is, but are seeing so much more being thrown into the PPC products currently. I hope what you say is what the company buyers think...

RE: Unreasonable Expectations
grahamnind @ 10/4/2004 11:56:08 AM #
Personally I wasn't looking for something particularly innovative. The T3 is, in my mind, almost perfect. Why depart from a winning formula? All the T3 needed was a larger battery, Wifi and possibly more memory, and it would have been perfect. How hard would that have been? They could have done that at least a year ago.


DeNiro @ 10/4/2004 9:54:41 AM #
OKay so what have been the 2 biggest issues in the Palm community over that last year?

1. PalmOS 6
2. WiFi

And what does Palm not give us in their new flagship model? Neither! Uuuuuuh how much I hate you guyz for that!

Let me explain. I still have my Palm M505, I was one of the first to buy one and was rather disappointed when Palm came out with the Palm M515 a few months later. Eversince then I fowed to never buy a new model straight away and eversince then I have been holding out for a PalmOS 6 device.

I've been waiting for 4 years now! I want a PalmOS 6 device with WiFi. Why I'm not buying a PalmOS 5 device? Well I think PalmOS 6 what PalmOS 5 should've been.

Lets have a look at this new flagship then.

* Flash memory instead of Capacitive memory (or RAM as most people say).
Nice idea. Although I have a few questions. First of all Flash memory isn't nearly as fast as capacitive memory. What about load times and such?

Also Flash memory has a limited lifetime. After a x number of writes it starts to degrade. Although this is acceptable for a, lets say digital camera, its not for a Palm device.

I use my Palm everyday. Make notes, organize calendar, look up phones numbers. These are all write operations which cut into the life of the flash memory. How long is this memory going to last? Can we replace the internal flashdrive or can we throw the device away once the memory is toasted?

* The "Multi-Connector"
I can remember that when Palm came out with the Tungsten and Zire they swore that their new Universal connector would be universaly used on all devices. Why oh why would they put a new connector on this new device then?!

* The OS and Launcher
Whats so new about PalmOS 5.4? Except the new launcher? Why didn't they put OS 6 in this device?!

* Battery
WOW! Just WOW! 1300mAh blows everything away! Very very nice!

* Slider
The slider is gone yaaaaay!!

* The price
Sorry to say so but looking at the current market this device is way overpriced.

I just hope Palm will get their act straight and give the customers what they want. This device is a huge disappointment, althought the extended batterylife is a warm welcome. I'm sure somebody will come with a launcher which looks exactly like the launcher on the T5 so you can make your T3 look like a T5.

I'm going to continue my wait for a OS 6 device with WiFi.

RE: Overpriced
m130fullbutcontent @ 10/4/2004 11:08:08 AM #
Interesting to hear that flash memory has a limited long can palmOne expect these things to last ? Just past a years warranty ? Two years ? or six months for the heavy user?...any ideas anyone -I ain't technically minded enough to have a clue !

RE: Overpriced
grahamnind @ 10/4/2004 12:08:45 PM #
I am not that impressed with the 1300mAh battery. It seems that the Treo 650 will have a 1900mAh one.

RE: Overpriced
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:47:20 PM #
Treo is a GSM/CDMA phone ... apples v oranges.

Pat Horne;
RE: Overpriced
DeNiro @ 10/4/2004 1:02:32 PM #
Most flash manufacturers garantuee 10,000 erase and/or rewrite cycles before the memmory starts to degrade. Although you won't notice it at first your memmory will get smaller and smaller, faster and faster to the point theres nothing left of it. Ofcourse suddenly corrupting your data is also nice.

As and example. I have a 128mb USB stick which I've had for 2 years now. I use it once or twice a week to put some docs on it and such. Not really heavy stuff.

In the course of 2 years and moderate use the capacity of the stich has dropped from 128mb to 93mb and I'm losing storage area by the day.

Ofcourse flash memory has come a long way in two years but still the thought of having the memory in my device degrade at some point. No thanks I'll pass on that.

RE: Overpriced
m130fullbutcontent @ 10/4/2004 6:46:58 PM #
DeNiro, Thanks for the update there. Thats, well quite a concern. Does this apply to existing SD cards ?

I have a little one in my trusty old m130 that's coming up two years old and used for app's and data every day - usually quite a lot- can I expect it to fail & lose it's contents sometime ?

(So far I've noticed no problems.)

RE: Overpriced
grahamnind @ 10/5/2004 11:48:57 AM #
re.Treo is a GSM/CDMA phone ... apples v oranges.

My point is that if they can fit a 1900mAh in a Treo, they could probably fit a bigger battery in the T5. 1100mAh is only a marginal upgrade from 900mAh, unless the new type of memory makes a big difference. The Tungsten C has a 1500mAh one.

I doubt if it would add much bulk. My phone has an 1100mAh, and it is tiny.

Pure disappointment

BuzzWriter @ 10/4/2004 10:43:06 AM #
Plastic case? "E" form factor? No voice recorder? Still no WiFi? OS6 still not ready? No slider (sorry, I'm one of those who love the slider form factor)? Features I've been using for years from 3rd party providers? Another cord to manage?

This is a sad day for those of us who have been waiting for a year to see the next step in the life of the T line.

Sorry, PalmOne. You really blew this one. I started with a Palm and I've upgraded with you each step of the way (including surviving some quality control problems along the way).

This announcement shows too little awareness of what this user wants and needs.

My days as a Palm user are numbered.

Mac user, marketing communications specialist

RE: Pure disappointment
m130fullbutcontent @ 10/4/2004 11:39:12 AM #
Commenting on your position as a Mac user -understandably not impressed- I see a possible small ray of hope for the Mac user community who have I think felt neglected a bit in terms of software available for Palm Os & Mac desktop users at times. Does that lack of OS6 not mean that palm1 are therefore continuing to support the Mac user/Palm OS people for the time being. Did they realise at the last minute that they would loose much support by cutting support to Mac users with new models if they jumped to OS6 with no Mac support?

New T5 screen - is it glass or plastic ?

m130fullbutcontent @ 10/4/2004 11:13:48 AM #
Having been the victim of 3 sceen breakages on a well liked but too fragile Palm IIIxe sometime ago one reason I've stuck with my m130 - so far- amongst others is it's reliability and robust hard to break screen and case etc.

Lovely and big this new T5 screen is but is it going to stand the bumps and knocks ? ( I guess if it's the same as the TT3 screen TT3 users can tell us ?) Thanks

RE: New T5 screen - is it glass or plastic ?
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 12:49:25 PM #
T3 is glass and a beauty. If T5 is the same nobody should complain. Even the VGAs have their early adopter problems over @ the dark side.

Pat Horne;
RE: New T5 screen - is it glass or plastic ?
m130fullbutcontent @ 10/4/2004 6:55:24 PM #
Brother Live Faith, thanks for the update on that screen. I'll have to think hard about uptrading to a T3 or T5 then - as with my luck (or fumbling fingers) I'd drop the new PDA and smash it soon after purchase ....doh! Hard earned cash gone with a crack.

Keep running the straight race there...

T5 = 2004 version of the M505/515

peitron @ 10/4/2004 11:13:24 AM #
Simply put, in the words of the great Jay Sherman, "IT SUCKS!".

I feel betrayed by PalmOne. This unit is the WORST upgrade in the history of Palm branded devices, and I believe it to be worst than the M505 change (at least, back then, the M505 had a color screen in comparison to the Vx).

There is no way in hell I'm trading in my T3 for this piece of trash.

My prediction: Q4 will bring huge losses for Palm, despite the release of the Treo 650. In 2005 PalmOne will be bought out by a cellphone manufacturer.

IIIx > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

RE: T5 = 2004 version of the M505/515
AyDb @ 10/4/2004 2:41:18 PM #
No, no, no. The phrase is, "It STINKS!"

RE: T5 = 2004 version of the M505/515
bringer @ 10/4/2004 5:40:05 PM #
I think the M505 was a superb upgrade from the Vx. I owned the Vx and thought it was the absolute perfect PDA at the time except for the fact that it was not color. I jumped on the M505 as soon as it came out and bought one the first day it was available. On hindsight I wish I had waited a little since the M515 came out so soon after that and would have been a better upgrade. None the less, the M505 is still the best Palm I have ever owned and my wife is still using it (after a battery upgrade) and she loves it as well.

I own a TT and will NOT be purchasing the T5 because I don't see it as a real upgrade in the T* line. The good news is, the T3 has FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY dropped in price and now I can go out and buy one.

PS: I'll offer my wife the TT as an upgrade to the M505 but I doubt she'll take it.

RE: T5 = 2004 version of the M505/515
Fernando @ 10/8/2004 11:40:54 AM #
he meant the upgrade from m505 to m515

It's the "HandEra 550" I was waiting for.

twrock @ 10/4/2004 11:00:32 AM #
I'm one of those guys who stays a little behind the leading edge. I like to wait until others have worked out the kinks and the device has dropped in price to something I can at least rationalize buying.

I bought a HandEra 330 that way. It was down to $200, but was still "cutting edge" in some of its features. It "only" lacked color. And so I waited for the fabled color HandEra. Even when HandEra decided to pull out of the business, I still kept looking for that "color Handera" equivalent. I kept telling myself that someone was bound to make it eventually. Then I dropped my beloved 330 and was forced to upgrade to an already "old" Tungsten T2.

I think that color HandEra is finally here! It's just being called the Tungsten T5. But I have to agree that PalmOne probably should have called it the E2 and priced it lower. Had HandEra actually brought their color unit to market, this "T5" would likely be two years old already. It would just have a different company label.

Incidentally, HandEra probably would have gotten it right and at least given us dual card slots. And who knows? Maybe they would have included WiFi.

sorry palm , you disappoint us.

andrewwt @ 10/4/2004 11:44:02 AM #
the T5 is a total disappointment.
1) no WiFi
2) use old OS

I will buy something else for my Christmas present.

You suck Palm

tthiel @ 10/4/2004 12:14:52 PM #
I have owned Palms since the beginning and this is the worst "upgrade" I have ever seen. I have also never seen so many pissed off Palm users. This Palm looks cheap, is low on features which is why they made the pathetic attempt to sell it a a usb drive as well as a Palm. Lame. Dell has a VGA model coming out in a month or so. Thats my next PDA.

RE: You suck Palm
hyperdaz @ 10/4/2004 12:27:25 PM #
I feel sick...

no really... if this has a plastic case I will never buy it...
Not even if PALM pay me £399 and give me the device free...

metal case is the only way its got to be as it survives...

I am sure most people will prefer to purchase a couple of / or maybe five T3's secondhand and make them last a good few years...
also upgrade the battery themselves etc...

So much potential and so little thought....

if this is the release then they are waiting for T6 to release OS6 like I thought before BUT they might of put most of their customers off...
And as Palm say they cant release information about unreleased products i.e.

your be waiting years..

My 2 cents on the T5...

Alchemist42 @ 10/4/2004 12:22:31 PM #
First of all just to get it out of the way... What a disappointment... I waited months on a purchase for this?

A little about my prospective... Im both a Palm OS user (since the Pilot 5000) and a Palm OS developer. I have sprint for my phone service provider making its impossible to buy a bluetooth phone if I wanted to (no CDMA bluetooth phones out there, there was one for a very short while but thats another story).

I currently have a Treo 600 (Handspring), Tungsten-T, and Sony NR-70v. For development I really wanted a 320x480 device with the latest OS, and since Wifi exists at my home, work, and many other places I frequent... its a must too.

Outside of the Sony TH55 there hasnt been a model with these specs, and with Sony fading from the US landscape I was looking to palm to fill that need.

For a new product release, over a year in the making... Palm has stubled! Unfortunately because of this I personally wont be upgrading and It sounds like many other wont as well.

The T5 is a weak product... and would be more aptly placed as a T-E2 albeit the memory makes the price too high for that. I dont like it but I can see where it came from in the design process... consider the following

- OS6 handles Wifi & Bluetooth simultaniously.
- OS6.1 just released is supposed to offer an updated UI
- Cameras arent good for corporate users (Security)
- Without Sony, palm is god in palm world again, so why innovate

So with this in mind, they would want to wait for OS6.1+ to get the new UI otherwise the model is outdated quickly, and since they would like OS6 for smooth bluetooth+wifi they bail and go with Garnet and No Wifi. The have always stuck with tungsten=corporate, and Zire=consumer so the camera is out too... so whats left... be innovative with memory, and battery life and bring the cost to make a unit down to increase profits... the T3 has to cost alot more to make than the T5.

Comparisons to existing palms
Since im not going to be updating to this model, and given the other choices I might end up doing some pocket pc development before too long... but in any case heres a couple models which had done more than palm, and are over a year old.

Sony Th55
This Sony model included 320x480 display, Camera, and Wifi in a form factor about the size of the T5. And it was available last year at this time for $399. It didnt have the builin 256mb but given it was last years model, you could add a memory card and be on your way for the same price If sony was still selling them here. The only down side to the TH55 was its used of the low MHZ sony handheld engine CPU, which was ok for business apps but died in gaming.

Tapwave Zodiac
This palm doesnt get alot of attention, but its top end $399 model already does much of what the T5 does, and more. Start with a 320x480 screen, bluetooth, 128mb ram (largest memory until the T5), analog dpad for games, aluminum case, accelerated video, 1500ma battery, AND the ability to use the internal memory as a builtin memory card. To top it all off it comes with TWO SD card slots, and if you dont need the memory you can buy a 32mb unit for $299. If this device had Wifi i would have bought one months ago... and still might. Its an innovative piece of hardware (a friend has one so ive used it extensively) that doesnt get a fair shake sometimes because its billed as a 'game' machine.

Pocket PCs
Palm One had really watch their back, there are alot of Bluetooth+Wifi Pocket PCs and a few 640x480 screen devices are coming out now... combine that with the use of .NET compact framwork for development (use desktop tools to port PPC apps) and PPCs from Dell etc being cheaper than the T5 and PPC just might hit critical mass on applications and dominate. Id hate it since im a long time palm advocate... but PalmOne doesnt seem to be on the ball here, and may indeed be giving up the handheld market just as Handspring did.

I guess for now ill likely pick up a Tapwave, it would be a no brainer if a 3rd party (read not palm) wifi card was available... but still I think it would take builtin wifi to let me sell my Dell Axim which right now I use exclusively for web access.

Palm One needs to do something... but It might be too little too late already. People waited a long time for palms new release... and its really lackluster... Its about the calibre of the T2 over the T1. No spash at all, just a model refresh. The confused 'lack of slider', 'cheaper case', and old technology with innovation.

RE: My 2 cents on the T5...
hyperdaz @ 10/4/2004 1:17:38 PM #
well stated...

RE: My 2 cents on the T5...
LiveFaith @ 10/5/2004 11:41:00 AM #
Well stated ... but boy that currency your using sure is strong.

Pat Horne;

The end of the line for standalone PDAs, RIP

finejames @ 10/4/2004 1:00:43 PM #
So it looks like P1 has confirmed what I've been saying all along. Following Sony's flight from the US market in PalmOS market, Toshiba's departure in the PocketPC market, P1 has essentially developed its swan song for the PDA market. The T5 will be remembered as the last of a line.....a sad day for us all.

The good news is that convergence 'smartphones' seem to be improving after every iteration, and even the Treo 650 will have some nice things.....

RE: The end of the line for standalone PDAs, RIP
A9700rO @ 10/4/2004 1:09:58 PM #
PalmOne seems to be dying, oh well, I'll jump the ship to Pocket PC...

Clie-SJ22>>Tungsten | E >>> Clie-NX60>>Zire 72
RE: Nonsense
AyDb @ 10/4/2004 2:46:26 PM #
"P1 has essentially developed its swan song for the PDA market."

Despite all the bullshXt over smartphones, nobody but PalmOne seems to have a problem selling traditional PDAs at three times the rate of smartphone sales.

Plastic Shell

alexp @ 10/4/2004 1:04:41 PM #
While I agree that this unit should not be named the T5 nor considered "top of the line," and that it's overpriced, I've noticed one truly ODD comment as I glance at these numerous (174 so far) posts, and it's appeared a number of times.

People complaining about the plastic case...

Then they talk about how they'll go get a Dell PPC for less with more features...

Apparently, they fail to realize that ALL Dell PPCs come with plastic casing. They're made to look like metal (just like the T5), but they're PLASTIC.

Virtually all recent HPs with the exception of their new x4700 series are plastic, too. My iPaq 4155 is plastic, although it has more features than the T5.

If you want to complain about a plastic case for $400, feel free, especially with this feature set. But realize that the PPC you've decided to get is most likely plastic, too.

RE: Plastic Shell
hyperdaz @ 10/4/2004 1:20:54 PM #
I never said id get a plastic ppc... i said id buy a few t1,t2 or t3's to last a few years...

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IF this is plastic and if these are the features then my money will stay in my bank... Thanks for creating some great products over the years...

have a nice day...

RE: Plastic Shell
Alchemist42 @ 10/4/2004 1:43:00 PM #
Yes, your correct that most of the PPCs have plastic cases... but they do have better features. Lets face it, Palm One sporatically releases innovative handhelds... most the time its lackluster like this... albeit usually not THIS lackluster.

The 'ace' that P1 always used to have was build quality... the Palm V, and m50x series were definitely well behind the technology curve... but they sold well and are still considered some of the best handhelds in palms history because of the style and quality of the devices. Nice solid metal cases.

Btw, a number of Palm Ones old employees founded Tapwave, and given their nice aluminum case on the Zodiac I wonder if they were the real folks behind those early palms.

But this time around, palm one releases a lackluster product, but they dont do it with style... they make it a large screen version of their low end Tungsten E model... which sells well... of course it does... its basically a T2 in a cheap case... so those that want features on the cheap bought it. But now we are getting a TOP OF THE LINE palm on the cheap.

RE: Plastic Shell
Gekko @ 10/4/2004 1:53:26 PM #

BUT PPC/Nokia use HIGH QUALITY plastic cases which are fine. Compare them with the PAINT-PEELING CHEAP-FEELING T/E case.

The T/E feels like a cheap Seiko organizer in the hand and so will the T5.

RE: Plastic Shell
Wollombi @ 10/4/2004 5:54:13 PM #
Everyone here seems to forget or not realize that the T3 is plastic as well. It doesn't look or feel like plastic in the hand, but open the PDA and you will find that it is indeed made out of some form of plastic. It may be the highest quality plastic p1 has ever put out (or ever will).


Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Plastic Shell
Foo Fighter @ 10/4/2004 6:01:46 PM #, the T3 has a metal shell, not plastic.

Contributing Editor,
RE: Plastic Shell
Wollombi @ 10/4/2004 6:05:21 PM #
I've opened mine and can confirm that it is indeed plastic.


Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Plastic Shell
Puppy @ 10/4/2004 8:48:39 PM #
I don't care that it's plastic, I care that's it's horrible, cheesy, cheap looking and feeling plastic. I've never had a problem with plastic electronics, but the T|E just looks awful in person, and feels awful in the hand.

RE: Plastic Shell
Take1 @ 10/4/2004 9:30:35 PM #
I don't mind plastic if it's done right like on the iPaqs or Sony models. The T|3 probably uses a paper thin metal outer veneer glued to a plastic substructure and that's why it seems to be made of plastic when you open it up.

HP's hx4700 is made of magnesium-alloy, so not all PPCs are plastic. I actually thought the old iPaq models (3800/3900 series) did very will with plastic -- the metallic paint was VERY scratch resistant and look new years after extensive use.

RE: Plastic Shell
Foo Fighter @ 10/5/2004 1:19:11 AM #
It is not plastic. I have already confirmed this several times with PalmOne. Hell, the review unit they sent me several months ago even had a dent in it. I'm pretty sure plastic cannot form dents.

Contributing Editor,
RE: Plastic Shell
LiveFaith @ 10/5/2004 11:49:11 AM #
Actually, it is very thin aluminum that covers an ABS framework. The metal is very attractive but does scrath and dent if hit hard.

Pat Horne;
RE: Plastic Shell
Altema @ 10/5/2004 2:35:05 PM #
Here's the real deal on the T3...

Main case front: metal over plastic frame
Main case back: metal over plastic frame
Main case top: plastic
Main case side trim and mic/headphone jack surround: plastic
Slider front cover: metal
Slider bottom and side trim: plastic
Slider back: metal
Slider guide tabs and outer guide bars: metal
Buttons: plastic
Button microswitch mounting plate (inside slider): metal

RE: Plastic Shell
Altema @ 10/5/2004 2:48:01 PM #
Pat, you beat me to it!

Can anyone talk me out of a T3?

bookrats @ 10/4/2004 1:15:56 PM #
My old Sony Clie T665C, she aging quick. So, I've been holding out for a PalmOne Tungsten, and waiting for the T5 to come out, hopefully with Cobalt.

So, having seen the T5 specs, and liking the slider on the T3: can anyone talk me out of buying a T3? Or give me a good reason for going for a T5?

The battery life issue isn't a big deal to me -- if you can live with a Sony, you can live with a T3, I figure. And I plan to use this PDA for the things I've always used a Palm PDA for:

- Datebk5
- MP3 playing
- Dozens of Palm apps I've used forever
So, tell me what I'm doing wrong -- I encourage you!


"I'm warning you ... if you kill me, they'll just send 008!"

Jeff Meyer

RE: Can anyone talk me out of a T3?
Hooligan @ 10/4/2004 1:22:41 PM #
There's really nothing at all I can do to talk you out of it. I have one and love it. I bought mine about 6 months ago and have no digitizer problems and no loose screws (in the PDA, that is!). Furthermore, my slide is still riflebolt smooth and secure.

As for the T5, as someone here put it, Tungsten is a metal, after all.

RE: Can anyone talk me out of a T3?
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 3:55:27 PM #
The T3 is absoutely fabulous. If you have no build quality problems and are not dependent on long battery life, this is one awesome and productive PDA. Ohhhh, that P1 had actually upgraded the T3, they would have had a winner.

1100mah battery, flash memory(unpowered), new PXA(lower powered), even with WiFi card and OS5.4, it could have survived the ire of this board, unlike the T5E2.

Pat Horne;

RE: Can anyone talk me out of a T3?
jayman @ 10/4/2004 4:30:54 PM #
About the only advantage of the T5 I can see is the better battery life BUT I can have replaceable batteries (Power-to-Go packs) with my T3.

Hold yer horses

mikecane @ 10/4/2004 1:21:58 PM #
My God, the Comments keep multiplying like my cold bacteria!

I'll be at TechXNY tomorrow (attention stalkers!).

If the TE2 (I *refuse* to call it the T5!) is there, I will give it a major fondle and write it up for PIC.

Right now, two things:

1) It has a FILESYSTEM! Yippee! (I had to get that out!)

2) It will work with the current WiFi SD *after* a driver update? WTF have they been doing? Why isn't the update out NOW? (OK, then -- will it be out by *November 3rd*?)

All the Comments I'll have to read offline today (in my *properly* named TE!).

RE: Hold yer horses
Alchemist42 @ 10/4/2004 1:56:50 PM #
1. It doesnt have any more of a FILESYSTEM than any Palm OS device since VFS was introduced back in what OS4. The T-E2 (its not a T5 to me either) only adds a builting Memory card... Its like giving it dual SD card slots but you cant take one out. The PalmOS stores everything in a Database, and uses VFS for accessing memory cards... same with the T5... its not a file system.

2. Oh boy, another case of Drivers pending... havent people learned yet... NEVER buy ANYTHING from palm on the idea that a driver update is coming... look at how long people wanted the old bluetooth card to work for them. Argh.

RE: Hold yer horses
mikecane @ 10/4/2004 7:21:29 PM #
Yeah, well, you can bag the TechXNY fondle. palmOne is in a press Meeting Room *ONLY*. *NO* exhibit. Even though I have a TechX press pass, I'm not on p1's list nor will I ask to be so. It's up to Ryan.

RE: Hold yer horses
mikecane @ 10/4/2004 7:22:43 PM #
Have to clarify that dangling last sentence:

It'll be up to Ryan to provide the fondle for PIC with *his* review unit.

So who wants my $399

gijsraggers @ 10/4/2004 1:28:42 PM #
I was waiting and ready to spend $399 again. Sorry but I won't wast it on this so called T5. POI&*YG F^FOIV
RE: So who wants my $399
LiveFaith @ 10/4/2004 4:01:42 PM #
Send it to my paypal account please. I need to downgrade my T3 to the T5E2.

Pat Horne;

In the box:

gijsraggers @ 10/4/2004 1:36:42 PM #

Tungsten™ T5 handheld


Flip Cover

USB sync cable with Multi-connector

Power adapter (108-132 VAC/60 Hz U.S.; 100-240/50-60Hz Int’l)

Desktop Installation & Software Essentials CD with NEW Tutorial and User Getting Started Guide in PDF format

Read This First document

Graffiti® 2 sticker

No one would be complaining...

sremick @ 10/4/2004 1:35:23 PM #
...if PalmOne had simply called this the Tungsten E2 and priced it somewhere within the realm of sanity.

They didn't have to lose a dime of their R&D. Just paint "E2" instead of "T5".

The problem is, this has dashed the hopes of the high-end users who ache for "the best". If this is "the best", we have a right to be worried, and upset.

If this had been the E2... then the block of consumers for whom the E catered to would be happy as clams. Meanwhile, the T-users would perhaps be getting more impatient, but would still feel that the best was yet to come.

Instead, we seem to have reached a dead-end. It's as if Palm has admitted they've given up. And it shows... this thread alone lists a bunch of people who've abandoned Palm because of this debacle.

Plastic. No cradle. No WiFi. No OS6.

No sale.">">

RE: No one would be complaining...
Strider_mt2k @ 10/4/2004 5:30:54 PM #
No, they'd be on their feet applauding!

But P1 blew it again.

Now they're on their feet, but they're leaving.

RE: No one would be complaining...
twrock @ 10/4/2004 8:55:57 PM #
I do think the TE people will have a good look at this machine and like the specs. If I had purchased a TE instead of a T2, I probably would really want to upgrade to this unit (and I hate the slider on my T2). But I would look at the doubled price tag and decide to wait until it at least dropped under $300 street price. Hopefully that will happen very soon, but then again, that won't be good for PalmOne.

Since I don't feel the need for bleeding edge technology, I can wait and see if there is something else to really get excited about in the works. As Cubs fans are fond of saying, just wait until next year. But I can see the reason for the frustration in the "I-upgrade-the-same-week-Palm-does" crowd. And it seems there are a lot of you here on this site.

"File Transfer" & "Drive Mode" on a Mac?

gulmatan @ 10/4/2004 1:36:43 PM #
Hi there.

It seems PalmOne is seeking to shut out the Mac populus little-by-little. Yeah, I know Mark/Space is taking. I would like to have the ability to use the new features--Drive Mode and File Transfer with my Mac. Can it be done? Does Mark/Space hace a way to accomplish that? I sure hope so.

Matt A.

RE: Drive Mode
Admin @ 10/4/2004 1:59:25 PM #
Yes, Drive mode will work on a Mac or Linux box, any machine that supports USB flash drives. The T5 is mac compatible and ships with the Palm Desktop for Mac OS X. The file transfer application is a windows only app. -Ryan
tthiel @ 10/4/2004 2:33:24 PM #
Alot of the other Palm apps are Windows only as well.

Battery Life... Not an improvement...

Alchemist42 @ 10/4/2004 2:02:58 PM #
On closer inspecton of the T5 specs, I cant see the battery life improved that much if at all... Heres how I see it.

- 1300ma battery is a plus over the 1100ma battery in the T3.
- Flash mem takes more power to read and especially write.
- T5 uses 100% flash ram so its holds contents.
- New Processor is reputed to be lower power.

Im thinking that whatever power gains are made by the 1300ma battery and processor will be taken up by the additional power requirements of 256mb of Flash memory.

Sure it could be revolutionary and have battery life lasting alot longer... since no power at all needs to be refreshing ram when its off... but im betting if it was an improvement Palm would be parading it around since its pretty much their only cool new feature.

RE: Battery Life... Not an improvement...
OrionNE @ 10/4/2004 2:57:38 PM #
I thought the TT3 has a 950mAh battery?

RE: Battery Life... Not an improvement...
Admin @ 10/4/2004 3:02:25 PM #
yes, the T3 has a 900 mAH battery. The T5 does not have to supply power to the flash RAM to store the contents which also results in additional power savings.
RE: Battery Life... Not an improvement...
naturefreak85 @ 10/4/2004 3:46:00 PM #
the T5 does not have 100% flash ram, it has 160 megs of flash ram and 55 megs of regular ram like the T3
RE: Battery Life... Not an improvement...
hyperdaz @ 10/4/2004 6:13:08 PM #
I got it after Xmas buy a T5 second hand... There maybe tones on the market (someones gotta be silly)

;) swap the battery in your old T3 and most ppl might be happy :)

just an idea.. :)

Now I need to source a T3 for £100 any offers :) :D

RE: Battery Life... Not an improvement...
Alchemist42 @ 10/4/2004 6:36:39 PM #
Your right about battery size, it is 950ma my bad. About having 160mb flash, etc... i doubt thats the case. Since the chips come in 128, 256, etc. mb varieties im betting its a singled 256mb chip in there.


jonnormand @ 10/4/2004 2:13:54 PM #
I really don't know how you guys can joke about this. I haven't owned a Palm device since I traded up from my Palm III to a first gen iPaq and currently a Jornada 568.
I haven't really been interested in Palm for a while now. Sony started perking my interest but obviously that went bye bye.

With this news and seeing so many people on the thread saying they are, as some of you say, going to the dark side. I feel sad for Palm. I know a few PPC users who really are laughing at this and all I can do is shake my head. The forward momentium, if any, that drives any progress in the Pocket PC is linked to Palm. If we lose Palm we all but assure that the PPC will become stagnant. Beyond that choice is a good thing.

Yah I can't laugh at this. This is something between sad and pathetic. I've got some hope in Palm simply because Dell doesn't have a brick and mortar presence anywhere. This leaves HP as the primary competition and since their current offerings, are pathetic in quality and price (Who here is willing to spend $650 on a new PDA?) they could sell well this x-mas in retail stores. But for the tech savey who doesn't need to walk into a Best Buy to get an idea of what PDA they are looking for, Palm is screwed.

This is a really sad day. Unless something really changes in the next 6 months or Palm sells those new Trio's like a bat out of hell we could be witnessing the end; or if nothing else Palm could turn into Apple with a niche market sustained by the handful of Palm zealots out there. I really hope it doesn't come to that. :-(

RE: Joking
feranick @ 10/4/2004 2:55:07 PM #
There is a difference: Mac products are known to be advanced, top-notch with everything the user expect, sometimes even more. Apple is an innovator and it can stand there as a nice producer. Palm is not. Period.

P.S. Think at Apple selling a incredibly new powerful laptop without WiFi. Nobody would buy it...

RE: Joking
Puppy @ 10/4/2004 8:58:31 PM #
"There is a difference: Mac products are known to be advanced, top-notch with everything the user expect, sometimes even more."

I have to completley disagree with that. Apple's usually pretty disapointing too. ie a new, expensive iMac that uses an ancient Geforce 3 level 5200 chip.

Palm seems to be doing the exact same thing Apple did. They had the market if they wanted it, but for some reason just choose to give it away to Microsoft. (ie the DECADE where Apple had a massivly more advanced, stable, and easier to use OS than Microsoft, but didn't manage to do ANYTHING with it to secure marketshare.)

I've been seeing this coming all year, but I was still holding out hope for Palm. After this E2 fiasco...not so much. I'm planning on getting an x50 or x30. I sure don't want to, but I haven't been left with any real choice.

No universal connector???

tthiel @ 10/4/2004 2:34:01 PM #
So now Palm wants to gouge us by having to buy new accessories since the "universal connector" is gone. Great Palm. Get a clue...alienating your existing users when they have alternatives is not a good business plan.

RE: No universal connector???
budrowilson @ 10/4/2004 2:41:35 PM #
I'm very disappointed with Palm's lack of adherence to the universal connector. The universal connector was supposed to allow Palm's consumers to update their PDA without having to update all their accessories. It's a great idea, but Palm abandoned it so quickly. I've been a hardcore Palm user for several years, but they're really starting to piss me off.

Gotta love it!
IndyDave @ 10/4/2004 2:41:52 PM #
From raters comments on T5 announcement:

"i brought this product it's the best"
lana on 04-Oct-2004 07:40:44 AM
Pros: trust me i've tried it, first i was thinking was it worth it then i told myself try it then judge so i brought it and i had no regrets


Since reviewers don't have devices to use yet, and not slated for sale until Nov you gotta wonder...

Palm shill or lunatic?

RE: No universal connector???
kevdo @ 10/4/2004 2:47:16 PM #
How many Universal connector accessories do folks really have? I have an old old keyboard but the newer ones are more compact and use IR anyway...

PalmOne deserves plenty of flak but ditching the UC that wasn't that well supported in the first place shouldn't be one of them.

-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion

RE: No universal connector???
jayman @ 10/4/2004 4:37:14 PM #
With the UC, I have:

Power-to-Go Sled
Enfora wifi case
Travel charger
Extra cradle for work
USB cable for laptop
TomTom Navigator cradle

RE: No universal connector???
borgiaX @ 10/4/2004 9:28:11 PM #
How was that Enfora Case, I was thinking (still thinking) of getting one.

Flagrans Veritatis Studio
RE: No universal connector???
T. @ 10/4/2004 9:54:14 PM #
Power to Go
Ultra Thin Keyboard
Modem (ok, that doesn't work with my T3 anyway)
Serial Cable (used with MarkSpace Online Terminal Emulation SW)
Delorme USB GPS (ok, I also have the bluetooth module)
USB Sync Cable
Palm/Audiovox 9100 Serial Cable (ok, I upgraded to a bluetooth phone)
Travel Charger
Car Charger
4 Spare cradles scattered at my various customer sites

RE: No universal connector???
Patrick @ 10/5/2004 1:18:03 AM #
3 cradles (from my m515, TT, and T3)
car/travel chargers

I also have a $20 3-in-1 stylus which wouldn't migrate to a T5, if I was foolish enough to buy one.

RE: No universal connector???
Altema @ 10/5/2004 2:52:58 PM #
I've got:

5 cradles
1 UltraThin keyboard
1 Power To Go
1 MarkSpace UC serial data cable
1 UC serial sync cable
1 UC car charger
1 UC sync cable
1 Navman GPS sled

Most of this stuff I've used since my first M505, and every device since. Right now in the family we have two T3's, one M130, one Z71, one M505, and one M515, and all of them have the UC. What do I do if I crossgrade... have a garage sale? Will palmOne offer a discount?

T|Tx new mid level PDA

mazzorca @ 10/4/2004 2:23:27 PM #
After reading this, I hope TT5 is the new mid level class PDA of palm and by the end of October we get a brand new line of Zinc|Z with OMAP display, WiFi, Palm Cobalt, and interchangeable battery. If this doesn’t happen, we are watching the Palm death. They are abandoning the thing they put the name on, expecting the smartphone save their asses. But realize there are bigger and stronger beasts to beat. If I think in a PDA, i name it palm. If I think in a phone, is Nokia or Eriksson or Motorola, but never in PALM.
Even this happens, I still don’t get why anger all the loyal palm community not calling this TE2.

PS: ok remove the OMAP thing, which is way too much whishing.

I know, my English is horrid.

RE: T|Tx new mid level PDA
ptc @ 10/4/2004 3:19:55 PM #
This really is the TE2. I'm perplexed - why didn't they just call it that?

On any new T I'd expect some real innovation, something to get excited about for the $400 price tag. Even if it were the same exact specs and Palm OS 6 I'd be happy. No built in WiFi was a big letdown too.

It's obvious that PalmOne is really concentrating their high-end development (and resources) on the Treo line. That is where their future lies, not pleasing us high-end hanheld enthusiats/geeks.

I'm not going to bail on Palm just yet though - hopefully Tapwave will come up with a killer new Zodiac device in the next 6 months or so...

RE: T|Tx new mid level PDA
rsc1000 @ 10/4/2004 3:46:33 PM #
>>with OMAP display

You mean 'OLED' display - 'OMAP' is the name of the texas instruments processor that the older, slower Palm OS 5 devices used (the T|T1, Zire 71, Treo 600, etc).

RE: T|Tx new mid level PDA
mazzorca @ 10/4/2004 4:13:09 PM #
OMAP display JUE!!!... It's almost as funny as the new TT5.
hompefully that was a mistake too.

New Homepage Poll

Admin @ 10/4/2004 2:56:36 PM #
there is a new poll on the homepage regarding the T5 announcement. check it out!

Oh for F*CKS Sake!

lp12 @ 10/4/2004 3:15:30 PM #
You have to be kidding.

The T5 has gotten BIGGER, gone from metal to PLASTIC, and has NO WIFI!!!

I would guess that the3 Pocket PC crowd are all laugthing their pants off at the release of the T5!

Some great new features, but no real evolution (except backwards!).


We got what we asked for.

Altema @ 10/4/2004 3:04:56 PM #
This is hilarious. How many people hanging out at the PIC have cried "Gimmie a T3 without the slider!", "We want more memory!", "We want a 480x360 tablet", and "Dump the T3 button layout", and "Lose the UC!"

Be careful what you as for :(

Me, I'm keeping my T3... just ordered a replacement for my current refurb due to a digitizer issue. Yeah, I was holding out to see if the TE2 would tempt me, but since that will probably not happen, I want to at least have a T3 that works properly.

I firmly believe that this should have been the TE2, but palmOne changed the name just to raise the profit margins.

THAT being said, I can see exactly they would release a device like this.

Non-slider: We keep asking for a non-slider tablet style with T3-like specs.

Processor: Incremental MHZ upgrade, but includes more advanced power management. Actually, the T3 is already fast, not much return in moving from instant to slightly-faster-than-instant.

Memory: King of the hill AFAIK. How many other devices have more memory?

Button layout: I like the T3 button looks, but after almost a year, I still have to look at the picture on teh buttons. The TE2 is a definite improvement in ease of use.

UC: The UC has been useful to me, and I need serial. However, the new connector's audio/video output capabilities facinate me. Docking station with stereo and full size monitor anyone?

Cradle: The p1 website says the cradle is included, but then, it also says it has the universal connector. It should have had a cradle.

Case: I don't like the TE case. However, the T3 case is partly plastic, and definetly more expensive than a TE style case.

WiFi: Here, they did not listen to us. What they seemed to have listened to were marketing surveys which said WiFi was an item used only ocassionaly by the masses, used heavily by a few, and not used at all by some. Based on this, they made WiFi optional. What they should have done in making it optional, is make it bundled with the WiFi card, and offer the TE2 without the optional WiFi card at a lower price.

Battery: This is one area where I think the TE2 will be better than expected. Standard RAM sucks battery even when the device is off. This is the reason that you better get your iPaq to a charger within 4 days after a critically low battery. The same goes for the Tungsten, even though you get a 21 day breathing space before kissing your data goodbye. Flash draws power to change bit values (writing), and how much power is used to write depends on the flash memory itself, but that is all. There is no battery drain related to memory in standby So you get rid of the constant 24x7 power draw. On top of no standby draw, you go from a 900Mh to a much larger capacity, then you get a more efficient processor. I think this unit will be a good performer in terms of battery life.

RE: We got what we asked for.
rsc1000 @ 10/4/2004 3:50:26 PM #
>>Non-slider: We keep asking for a non-slider tablet style with T3-like specs.

Uh - no. We didn't ask - we demanded - and that was last year. Everybody complained how lame it was that it hadn't happened already. A year later they address last years complaints. Meanwhile OS 6.1 is released by PalmSource. palmOne has the nerve to justify OS 5 by saying they have apparently been working on this since before 10 months ago (when OS 6 was released to palmOne). Well - that is a lie or they are so imcompetant that in a fast moving hi-tech sector like this, palmOne (the company that started this sector) apparently takes a damned year to make a device that is exactly equal to a T3 minus a slider + additional memory - metal body - voice recorder. gee, that years work to get that extra memory and usb drive feature clearly sucked up SOOOO many resources that they couldnt do Cobolt and had to remove the voice recorder. What a joke.

RE: We got what we asked for.
rsc1000 @ 10/4/2004 3:50:26 PM #

Oh irony - why do you mock me? The correct spelling is 'incompetent '. Honestly - i am not 'incompetent' at spelling;)

RE: We got what we asked for.
Admin @ 10/4/2004 4:16:49 PM #
palmOne's reasoning to me for not including Cobalt, was because they have already implemented many of the things Cobalt does with Palm OS 5. Which is somewhat true, however cobalt is totally re-architected and is a next generation development platform.

RE: We got what we asked for.
alee @ 10/4/2004 6:30:05 PM #
>>Non-slider: We keep asking for a non-slider tablet style with T3-like specs.

Who's we? No slider, no sale for me.

RE: We got what we asked for.
IndyDave @ 10/4/2004 7:09:39 PM #
I hate to venture, though, that the slider isn't likely to return. It simply was as much a make or break deal for most users. Would be interesting to see a poll of users here who would define the slider as a deal-breaker.

In the end for me, it's the combination of the price and the plastic especially after Zire fiasco with peeling paint.

RE: We got what we asked for.
IndyDave @ 10/4/2004 7:14:25 PM #
oops..."wasn't a make or break deal" is what it should say..

RE: We got what we asked for.
JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2004 5:13:51 AM #
I also seem to remember when the T3 came out many complained that the slider was there and it should be in tablet form factor. And now, we have people complaining that it looks like a TE. Whatever palmOne do people will complain.

Some of those complaining and recommending a Dell Axim instead should look at the software package of the T5. It comes with Documents To Go 7, a proper office suite. PPC does not. It has crippled versions of Pocket Word and Pocket Excel.

DocsToGo is better at opening and editing Microsoft proprietary office files than PPC's built-in programs. A fact.

And Palms (atleast those running WebPro) are better at viewing websites when compared to Pocket IE. This new one has Blazer (Novarra engine based?). WebPro on my T3 can download the entire BBC News frontpage (low graphic edition) in a matter of seconds through my wap connection while Pocket IE will display nothing for 10 seconds before starting to download.

And the landscape support is way better than the new Pocket PC 2003 SE. Has anyone seen screenshots of the way the input area takes up more than half the screen when in landscape mode?

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

Tech Mass Media Needs Notified

Gekko @ 10/4/2004 4:31:11 PM #

I hope the mass tech mass media sees this thread and publicizes our collective anger. , , etc.

Please do what you can to make all the tech mass media outlets aware of it.

RE: Tech Mass Media Needs Notified
Strider_mt2k @ 10/4/2004 5:37:52 PM #
(Voice of Yoda)

They will be.

..They will be.

RE: Tech Mass Media Needs Notified
mikecane @ 10/4/2004 7:28:24 PM #
Gekko, get off your soapbox. That one with "Dell" spraypainted on the side...

RE: Tech Mass Media Needs Notified
Gekko @ 10/4/2004 10:55:27 PM #

MikeCon - why aren't you out scaring small children tonight as usual?

Tungsten T5x

ozz @ 10/4/2004 4:48:15 PM #
With all this flak coming from Palm loyalists (some former loyalists)maybe palmOne will rethink the marketing strategy they have with the T5 and come out with a modified T5 like they did with the Palm V which was upgraded to a Vx. They could call it the T5x. They could add wifi and voice mail. Nothing else. Leave O6 for a later model and make a BIG splash with a new generation PDA with O6. Just an idea. Are you listening palmOne?

Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: Tungsten T5x
rikster @ 10/4/2004 5:45:16 PM #
If they did this, I'd buy it. But we'd have to wait until 2006. It took them one year to strip out the good T3 bits & place them into a TE case.

RE: Tungsten T5x
hyperdaz @ 10/4/2004 6:29:10 PM #
And they lost a lot of bits on the way...

One little spark...

hyperdaz @ 10/4/2004 6:46:26 PM #
If they wanna go down the portable hard drive path... maybe just maybe .... I am searching now but just maybe

TT6 TT7 or TT8/9 or what ever its called

Will include a REAL HARD DRIVE....

ok ok ok I know I am dreaming cause they will never ever get to that stage with a product like this...

just think if the T6 dare I mention this is next years / Novembers product will anyone wait or trust PALM ONE???

BTW it would need to have a METAL CASE......

METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL metal METAL

Palm did NOT want this to happen

JShoo @ 10/4/2004 6:41:29 PM #
"There's something happening here; what it is ain't exactly clear"

To me this situation has the smell of plans gone badly wrong, not a planned disaster. Others have pointed out the evidence: review units still not available; the pre-announcement of the product, something which often badly hurts profits; the garbled information on web pages, etc.

Certainly one possible explanation is that P1 wanted the T5 to be exactly like this AND they are late with it. However given the late ship, it seems more likely that P1 scrambled and stripped features in order to meet their announcement date.

What was the root cause? Only a Palm insider could tell us, but the possibilities are many: overruns on other projects starved the T5's development; management incompetence put the T5 way behind schedule; far along in the development cycle it was discovered that the original design was so flawed that it had to be abandoned; fatal flaws were found in a critical component, which might be Cobalt 6.0 or hardware, or there was a shortage of some critical part.

Ultimately PalmOne is responsible for their own actions. However without evidence it isn't clear whether this flawed release is deliberate or due to incompetence or bad luck.

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
Gekko @ 10/4/2004 8:00:39 PM #

What did you expect from a bunch of Apple-rejects?

Steve Jobs didn't fire all these guys because they were GOOD!

This is a farm team trying to beat the Yankees. Ain't gonna happen.

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
Gekko @ 10/4/2004 8:21:58 PM #

let me clarify - the Apple-rejects are all at PalmSource.

PalmOne is headed by a Gateway-reject, Todd Bradley. And what is Todd's claim to fame while at Gateway?

He led the development strategy to expand Gateway's retail presence through store-in-store relationships with major retailers.

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
lesel @ 10/5/2004 3:25:43 PM #
Very Funny!

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
T. @ 10/5/2004 4:50:56 PM #
That from someone who spends all his spare time posting Palm related comment. Quite a life, it's no wonder you root for the Yankees.

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
hyperdaz @ 10/5/2004 5:44:38 PM #
Todd Bradley. 4 the sack....

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
Gekko @ 10/5/2004 6:14:25 PM #

Hey T - Give me your fax number and I'll fax you over my reciepts for my $290 bar/dinner bill and $250 hotel room from last Saturday night, a**hole. What did you do Saturday night? Watch reruns of Star Trek with your fat ugly wife again?

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
T. @ 10/5/2004 7:03:56 PM #
Well see who wins the series.

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
Patrick @ 10/6/2004 3:27:57 AM #
Gekko -- what were you THINKING? You could have bought a T5 *and* a WiFi card with that much party money!

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
mikecane @ 10/6/2004 9:03:36 AM #
>>>Hey T - Give me your fax number and I'll fax you over my reciepts for my $290 bar/dinner bill and $250 hotel room from last Saturday night, a**hole. What did you do Saturday night? Watch reruns of Star Trek with your fat ugly wife again?

What, the hookers didn't give you a receipt again?

RE: Palm did NOT want this to happen
T. @ 10/6/2004 9:43:00 AM #

Sorry, don't do star trek, more the american chopper type, although I have been thinking I might have the Star Trek ensignia engraved into my derby cover, or maybe another tatoo on my left arm of Data. Also, does anyone know of a PDA mount that fits Custom Chrome's 1" FAT bars for the Road King.

Unfortunately my wife is 13 years younger than me, weighs about 118, 5' 7", and rides a Harley Softail. I wish she would let us stay home on Saturday night.

I thought you Yankees guys were good hearted, anyway, here is a suggestion:

1) Red Sox vs Yankees: it can be whoever goes further this post season or only if one of them wins the series. The loser has to buy the opposing team's jersey and wear it to the first home game he attends next season. He also has to wear a sign around his neck that says he is either a Yankees or a Red Sox convert. If we want to get really rediculous we can make it say the Yankees are a Red Sox farm team or vice versa. This must be done with the stadium full and with home plate clearly in view. If the individual survives, they will take a picture and send it to the other individual or post it on a to be determine

Thinking of PPC? Think about THIS!

mikecane @ 10/4/2004 7:24:57 PM #

-- it'll be exhibiting at TechXNY this week, for those of you who can get your body to NYC.

Frustrate palmOne *and* Billg by getting Linuxed!

RE: Thinking of PPC? Think about THIS!
KayAU @ 10/4/2004 7:58:43 PM #
That looks like a real beast, and if P1 fails to get a decent PDA out within six months time I'd rather get a Linux-based device than a PPC (no love for Billy boy). However, there are three things which concern me about that thingy:
*I'm betting it wouldn't run my heaps of registered PalmOS software.
*I'm also betting it wouldn't fit in my pocket.
*It's called a "Pepper Pad".

But otherwise a cool looking unit...


RE: Thinking of PPC? Think about THIS!
twrock @ 10/4/2004 9:17:59 PM #
Just my $0.02 about Linux.

Mandrake Linux 10.0 installed on my old IBM Thinkpad beautifully. It came with disk repartitioning that let me grab 10gb of space from my dos partition without losing anything. Dual-boot was set up very nicely (read "automatically"). One reboot (notice "one") and I have a completely configured Linux system with all the apps installed and running. Sync software for Palm comes on the distribution disks and installs without having to reboot.

Hey, at least think about it.

RE: Thinking of PPC? Think about THIS!
rcartwright @ 10/5/2004 1:49:23 AM #
Its cool, but its not $800.00 worth of cool, especally when its about the size of my laptop (closed).

Rick C
RE: Thinking of PPC? Think about THIS!
mikecane @ 10/6/2004 9:05:21 AM #
Actually, it's much larger than your notebook/laptop closed.

I mean, the could put wheels on that thing and it could double as a mini-skateboard!


Texonite @ 10/4/2004 7:52:33 PM #
What they are going to do with it???
Please hold your angry answers in your mouths, i'm really interested in REAL things!

Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(

T3 vs T5

dimitrisouza @ 10/4/2004 7:43:51 PM #
I'm just seconding what everybody's saying: this is a TE2, not a T5:

- Where is OS6?
- Where is Wi-Fi?
- Where is sound recording? (for a business model it's a must)

So, is there any reason for one to buy a TE2 (T5) instead a T3, which now is 50 bucks cheaper? Flash drive? No thanks, I already have my memory key. New battery? Perhaps, but it's not enough to make it worth. New OS improvements? No, there's nothing really new (I'm already using FileZ on my T3 and it rocks!)

T3 is still a better deal, both for people buying a new palm or upgrading from a previous model.

I'll keep my T3 for more one or two years. By that time I hope that PalmSouce will have PalmOS 6 running on any PPC of my choice. Am I dreaming? The best OS (Palm OS) with the best hardware (PPC)? Perhaps...

See you there!!!

Dimitri S.

RE: T3 vs T5
dimitrisouza @ 10/4/2004 8:01:00 PM #
I mean, T3 is already manufactured by ASUS. How difficult would be to ASUS to support both PocketWindows and PalmOS on their handhelds? My guess is that it would not be too hard: same processor, same architecture...


RE: T3 vs T5
rsc1000 @ 10/5/2004 1:35:08 AM #
Yep - the T3 was probably thye best handheld palmOne has ever produced and it still hold up pretty well. However - after getting my dispointment of of my system i think there are some great reasons for power users to get this.

- this has gotta be upgradble to Cobolt (surely to god after todays univer4sal b!tchfest palmOne is scambling to be able to make that assurance?
- the advantage to this over a usb key/drive (aside from not having to carry an extra gadget/device) is that these files ares usable on the T3 itself. I bought a crappy card reader (are there any other kind? not in my local shops)to move files to my Cards. It deosnt work well - probably just my cheapo model. But my friends and workPCs don't have a card reader. Many users don't have a card reader. Using hotsync to move files of any signifcant size to the Card is ludicrous.
- having that much memory means you are free to use other types of sdio cards (wifi, camera, gps & whatever is coming)
- i think (i hope) that the pxa270 xscale will be real overclockable - fun for geeks! Good reason to think this since this cpu comes in different mhz version with 416 mhz being the low end. the prev gen of xscale topped out at 400 mhz -but was overclockable to 5-600 mhz.
- battery. better battery plus the increased power saving of the new pxa270 (providing u don't OC it;) should mean impovements here.
- no-slider. This is completely a matter of taste. I own a T1 and t3 and have had no issues with the slider on either - but i just don't like it! its an extra step to be able to enter data.

Anyhoo - the t5 isn't quite satan. If palmOne realizes their mistake and quickly drops the price within a month of release (this is what happened with the T1) down to $350 (and the T3 down to $299) it might salvage some customers. Oh - and they have to get a Cobolt upgrade out (free for T5 users) within 3-4 months (but announce it soon).

RE: T3 vs T5
A9700rO @ 10/5/2004 12:11:02 PM #
They had better clean up their act, or they'll sink faster than a diving sword fish, ignoring this global b!tchfest would be about the same as ignoring yourself combusted into flames.

Even if it's upgradable to Palm OS Cobalt, I'm not gonna get this one, my Zire 72 will do untill I see the next multimedia power house.

Clie-SJ22>>Tungsten | E >>> Clie-NX60>>Zire 72

I wonder if Palm is reading this thread...

IsLNdbOi @ 10/4/2004 8:41:34 PM #
There are threads on 1src and Brighthand just like this one:

People do not like this thing. I wonder if Palm checks these forums...

RE: I wonder if Palm is reading this thread...
Calroth @ 10/4/2004 9:02:44 PM #
They almost certainly do. However, they also realise that people who post to forums like this are not representative of all T5 potential buyers.
RE: I wonder if Palm is reading this thread...
JonathanChoo @ 10/6/2004 12:55:08 PM #
I agree with Calroth, Palmone has done market research and focus group on what people wants.

And they probably found out that ordinary consumers probably want more internal space without having to buy a SD card.

I think most new consumers don't really care about processor speed as long as it can play mp3 (out of the box), do some PIM, connect to my bluetooth mobile etc.

T5 is like a Zire

Picard @ 10/4/2004 9:21:59 PM #
Hey, do you guys remember the original Zire? Everyone complained that it was overpriced, and barely had specifications (no backlight, 2 megs of RAM, TWO buttons, ancient 16 MHz processor, etc) It seems like PalmOne's reduction policy to gain more profit has been applied to Tungsten T5!

"Plastic case. No cradle. No WiFi. No OS6.

No sale." - SRemmick (by the way dude, that's a funny quote)

some perspective ... from a reseller

gally @ 10/4/2004 8:40:47 PM #
I have been a long time palm user - since the origional Pilot. I then had a Vx and didn't upgrade again until the Tungsten|T. I even upgraded to the T3 within a year of purchacing the T! However, like most of the posters here, be passing on this product.

As a user, this obviously does not give me enough USEFUL new features to make it a compelling upgrade - especially given the price point - over the T3. Likewise, I am sure I will not be selling these to current T3 users.

From a marketing perspective, this really should have been branded as an E2. But it's confusing, because it includes some fairly high-end features, such as the new memory upgrades, processor, battery, and even the connector (though it's different). Yet it leaves some out, such as the voice recorder, metal case, cradle, and well, the connector (since it's different). The slider is not much of an issue either way; I personally think it is a needless, though functional, complication. The lack of a metal case is especially problematic. It's hard to convince someone it's a $400 device if it doesn't FEEL like a $400 device - especially if the finish doesn't stand up well to daily use (that blue ruberized coating on the Zire 72? don't get me started...).

So - If I can't see myself selling these to the T3 crowd, who will I sell them to? Zire and E users bought a value model - this price point is way out of line for them, even if the added components do justify the cost. I'm afraid that over all, palmOne will have a loser on their hands. On the other hand, how many different modles did Sony produce over the product life span with a complicated field of mix'n'match features? I hear that in Japan this is a successful strategy - niche devices with short shelf life is the rule there. But clearly not a recipie for success here. Still there are quite a number of happy clie users (or unhappy, depending on how you look at it). OK, so maybe not a loser, but definately not a winner.

This reminds me of the year when the m500/505 was released. Then, as now, the bar of expectation was very high, and these pair of devices simply did not deliver enough of what Palm users were looking for to make them compelling upgrades - especially at the price point. I recall that the market for these devices was fairly soft for new users, as well (correct me if I'm wrong).

But, eventually they did get arround to releasing a great line of products again, and I have some faith in their ability to do so in the future... just probably not until spring or fall of next year...

But allow me some input on that future palm wishlist. Wi-fi is no big deal to me... surfing is something I save for the big screens and BT to my phone is fine for my e-mail and a few info lookups. But I still prefer grafiti to grafiti2 and it would be nice to choose (this may be a legal thing still, but I thought it was a closed case). I also really, really, really want an OLED display - especially if it means the end of the screaming screens!

All the best.

Sold !!!???
borgiaX @ 10/4/2004 9:39:05 PM #
I work at a Univerisity where I have input on the choices people make regarding PDA's, I steer most collegues to the Tungsten E or the Zire 72. Everyone understands good price, good features, bluetooth for future, light weight.
Some people already have an idea what they want, and what they ask about and are willing to spend money on is WiFi.
Granted these may not be average consumers, since on campus Wifi is pretty pervasive.
Most folks are also willing to spend money on larger/better screens, for these folks the T5 may be of interest.
The question is how many people will want to spend $400.00 for a larger screen.
I know I cant recommend it... not at that price.
Nor can I pretend not to know that $400.00 can buy you a very competitive device from Dell or HP, screens as good, plastic as good, bluetooth and Wifi and the ever present Microsoft connection.
Palm has to compete not just for the dollars of PalmFans waiting breathlessly for the next upgrade, like a child on Christmas morning. Palm has to compete against a couple of well known companies who are arguably ahead of the game in the hardware they offer. Palmone has a fight on its hands.
Merry Christmas Boys and Girls :)

Flagrans Veritatis Studio
RE: some perspective ... from a reseller
Zippy @ 10/4/2004 11:56:27 PM #
I wish all the whiners would just buy a Pocket PC and go away, then the rest of us, however small that group may be, can enjoy posting and reading posts about Palms without those noisy MS promoters.

For business use my Palm has proven itself to be totally reliable: there are very few other features that I would want from a Palm other than that it be thinner and have better battery life, other than that, I don't need all the other crap. When I need to look up information in preparation for a meeting I am always certain that it will be there. If the OS becomes bloated full of bells and whistles and cause information to be lost or corrupted, then I would dump a PDA and go back to paper.

The Palm hardware has always been behind the MS platform, but always ahead in rock solid stability.


RE: some perspective ... from a reseller
rsc1000 @ 10/5/2004 3:03:20 AM #
>>I wish all the whiners would just buy a Pocket PC and go away, then the rest of us, however small that group may be, can enjoy posting and reading posts about Palms without those noisy MS promoters.

I understand yr point here about the overly negative comments - except they are NOT coming from 'noisy MS promoters' - they are coming from die-hard palm fans. if you looked at the history of these message boards and the people who post here you would know that.

RE: some perspective ... from a reseller
gally @ 10/5/2004 10:10:52 AM #
Zippy - I think you miss entirely the points of my comments. I have no intension of defecting to the MS platform. I am also an HP reseller, but even their upcoming high-end system does not have enough doo-dads on it to make me embrace the, what, fifth or sixth itteration of an inherrently flawed OS. I wish HP would license Palm - I refeuse to do business with Dell due to their history of lousy product support for my customers (NBD - it doesn't mean what you think...). PalmOne hasn't exactly been the greatest at offering support either, in recent years, and screens that scream over time is a product defect that they have refused to acknowledge.

OK, so that was pretty tangential... My basic point is - I LOVE my T3. My customers LOVE their Palms as well. However, this particular product launch seems to fall short of hyped up expectations. Every time that happens, a number of people seem to get fed up and hop the fence to where they think the grass is greener. (When they find out its astroturf, they usually hop back.) One bad launch does not a failed company make. But, overall, I have to agree with the criticisims found here (some more constructive than others).

The niche is going to be hard to find for this one. I don't even have a flash drive yet myself, so this initially appealed to me - until I realized what was missing, and that I would have to carry arround an additional cable... I look forward to selling more T3s given the price drop.

PPC Thoughts on T5

Gekko @ 10/4/2004 10:23:50 PM #

Someone should be taking Marketing 101

icesalmon1 @ 10/4/2004 10:15:10 PM #
Imagine what will happen if it is a TE2 and priced around $250-$300?
There will be no scolding and jumping to the dark side...
It is amazing that a $100 difference and a name change can make such a big differences.
I am urging P1 to change the name and price it accordingly.

Back to drawing board now, adding a larger battery and wifi to the current T3, and sell it as a T5.

What is the marketing genius in P1 doing? This is exactly as Toyota putting a camry badge on a corolla and trying to sell it as a camry.

RE: Someone should be taking Marketing 101
Patrick @ 10/5/2004 1:35:11 AM #
It's not just a name change. Had they called this the E2 there would have still been some anticipation, nay expectation, that a new T|T model was still in the offing, one having more of the features that folks here really want.

Any hopes of this happening have been completely dashed with the announcement of the T5 nomenclature.

Thoughts about this debacle to this time...

patchwork @ 10/4/2004 11:52:56 PM #
So there are a few of us - some of whom have posted several times in the almost 300 entries since this story broke - that aren't the least bit happy with PalmOne's new device, the Tungsten T5.

There's a world of posted dissatisfaction with build quality, speed, battery life and interface of a device that only one or two people have actually touched.

People are screaming about the lack of a voice recorder, dropping of the Universal Connector, and the fact that the T5 uses the TE's form factor.

There are a couple things that I've learned about Palm as they move from device to device though.

One is that you can't please everybody, and you can almost never please the high end of the user base.

At $99, the Zire was, on this very forum, a dog. But it went on to become one of the best selling, not Palms, but PDAs of all time at that price point. The Tungsten E was also not highly considered. But look at its performance in the market, even without Wifi, Bluetooth and voice recorder. (I don't use the voice recorder myself; I re-mapped the button to zLauncher's Favourites list. It's *very* handy for swapping between apps...)

Another thing I've learned is that with every new device, the Palm people make things simpler and collapse widely used third party features into the basic device.

How useful do you think applications like Filez, CardExport (especially this application!), HappyDays, and many third party launchers are going to be now? Does anyone remember most of the Hackmaster hacks we used to use a long time ago?

Do you think anyone's going to *have* to be grabbing an SD card on the way to checkout with their T5 box in hand?

Docs To Go was wrapped into the bundle a while ago, and now at version 7, what PPC can claim to have better compatibility with the desktop copy of a Word, Excel or PowerPoint file? Further, you can carry an actual copy of the document with you because your PDA is also a flash drive.

Further still, you can sync mail and read the attachment that came with it because of the integration with VersaMail.

Coming to think of it, you don't have to go through the long sync process as much to transfer files to and from anymore, now that the drive mode exists. It's something that I'd started using Card Export to avoid. Now it's built into the T5.

As a new user, also becoming obsolete is SplashPhoto, for starters, replaced by palmOne Media. And if you want to, play MP3's from flash or drop in a bigger SD card and run a few tunes using RealPlayer.

If the new flash area works just like an external card, and I expect that it will, it also means that apps that use that type of file space won't break. So, I can protect my application space still with apps like BackupBuddy. MobileMoney will keep working just as expected. I can keep reading offline web content with Plucker, and store large plucked websites and content in the data space. This is more important to me as an upgrader than WiFi is. In fact, truth be told, most of us aren't so jacked into the Matrix that we can't wait to get back to a desktop or laptop to get on the 'Net. (And on that note, Neo and gang needed a wired phone to get back to the real world, despite the fact that they could communicate using wireless... something to make the philosophers go "hmmmmm"...")

PalmOne listened to the market with this device, and I mean the mainstream market, not the top 3% that posts to online forums.

The Tungsten E was a big seller for them, and the tablet form factor has been extremely popular since the days of the Palm V. Fewer moving parts translates to a simpler assembly line too, and easier user maintenance. (I've not opened up a PDA myself since my III-series devices... My T|T is just a little bit daunting. I'm afraid that if its screen broke, it would be quite like Humpty Dumpty...)

The popularity of the SD slot and the cry for more memory prompted the 160MB flash drive, I think. In fact, now you can have more memory without giving up the SDIO slot, meaning it can be used for industry standard accessories like the Presenter to Go.

The fact that the Power To Go and third party products like the 9-volt battery charger existed necessitated the 1300mah battery and the "memory that doesn't die when battery does," to give the T5 a possible Native American name.

The Tungsten T5 provides what the *majority* of people *need* out of the box, and they can add whatever else they want afterward.

Some of you guys want to head to the PocketPC camp. That's your choice, and good luck there. They have their issues too, and they're not minor either. Battery life is a biggie. Application compatibility is another. Simply getting their devices to not eat their Word and Excel documents is a major headache on the PPC side of the fence. Accessory lifecycle? Hello! Try to get a two-year old iPAQ to work with the current crop of current iPAQ accessories, will you. I'm really sorry that the three of you that bought the Power To Go won't be able to use it on the T5, but you won't be able to use it on your new iPAQs or Axims either.

Actually, for all of you looking at PPCs, there may be an opportunity here for a software developer - data migration. And you can solicit plugins for each obscure application that these guys use on the PalmOS side, and plugins for each similarly obscure application that exists on the PPC side. I'd look to write it myself, or contract it out, but the support requirement would be a nightmare given how quickly people seem to complain nowadays.

Honestly, given the sum of its features, I like the T5. In true PalmOne fashion, the price will start high and will come down as sales begin to trickle in. Or will stay high as demand dictates. I'd expect that after Christmas, you could get one for as low as $325 plus shipping at some of the lesser reputable stores.

'Nuff said.

A Trini Palm Nut
III - IIIe - IIIx - M500 - T|T - ??

Come visit Trinidad & Tobago at

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
ackmondual @ 10/5/2004 2:05:48 AM #
after reading all the other t5 bashing comments (which in all fairness, there were many good points and points of views about the negative vibes), it's nice to hear some1 who seems to know what P1's new, seemingly suicidal new release slated to fail might work out after all.

Despite being squashed by Axims and Ipaqs, I think P1 is doing well competing vs big companies like Dell, HP, and MS. Those are B*I*G multinational, multi billion corporations who can pretty much have their way with many things, influencing the market, buying out competitors, etc. (which it seems one reason MS's PPC hasn't stamped out Palm is due to antitrust suites). I believe the reason P1 is making ppl shell out more $$ for a cradle and WiFi is that they do need the $$. P1 needs all the revenue they can get to survive, and those other big corp.s have PLENTY of it to go around even if their handheld line tanked. MS spends a lot of $$ on R&D. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent more $$ on R&D than the revenue palm makes.

As for the t5, I wouldn't touch it. I'm actually quite content with my Z71, and as u may have guessed, im NOT in the wireless market at all. My next PDA, in the next few months or even more than a year, still not sure, will either be a Z72 for VR, digicam, updated PIMs (photos along with contacts) and somewhat more mem; or a Zod2, w/a heckofalot more mem, stereo speakers, controls, hi-res+ games/apps, cradle, Zod tuned games, and other goodies..

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
dona83 @ 10/5/2004 2:29:48 AM #
Bravo for your comments, just the shear number of people complaining about the T5 was gonna make my ears explode, you gave a very comprehensive list about why we are and will remain PalmOS users for as long as they can compete with PocketPC, although I have to disagree with your MP3 software, RealPlayer is nice but Normsoft's Pocket Tunes is undoubtedly the best out there. Anyway, if not the T5, then certainly a better PDA in six months, and the Treo 650 which should be coming very soon. As for me, I'm done with standalone PDA devices, otherwise the T5 would've very well been on my shopping list, but my original Tungsten T was replaced by the Treo 600 back in July, and I don't plan to upgrade to the 650 until the same time next year. I do miss the good points about standalone PDAs though, including much better Word and Excel capabilities, although the 650's high res screen should rectify this problem (aside from the tiny screen which translates to an insanely high DPI)... I think people should give T5 a try if they're upgrading from the first generation OS5 (Tungsten T/Zire 71)... would I get the T5 if I had the T3? Most likely not. But from my Tungsten T, it would've finally gotten recognition from me. My only gripe is the lack of voice recorder which I used very extensively last year, although my Treo 600 has not been used for voice recording ever yet so I don't think I'd miss it too much. Anyway I hope we'll stop hearing complaints and start hearing good things for once, once again, kudos to you.

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
Gekko @ 10/5/2004 9:21:57 AM #

Zire and T/E sold well because of CHEAP PRICE. Never confuse the appeal of CHEAP PRICE with the appeal of feature set. This T5 is $399 - not $99 or $199.

You can't pay the rent selling low-margin Zires and TEs.

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
andrewwt @ 10/5/2004 9:24:07 AM #
Palm used T5 instead of T4 because the four in Chinese means death. If the managment really care about Hong Kong, and China market. Then, they surely need to have built in WiFi function. WiFi is very popular in these areas.

I don't think Palm managment really listen to the market.

I do not own a PDA yet. I have waited for months for T5 to come out. But, I am really disappointed and I, regard to say, will consider Dell or other brand names. Acutally, some of my friends will postpone their upgarde to T5, too.
Palm, just lose several potential customer

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
statik @ 10/5/2004 11:26:16 AM #
Very well said Patchwork.

We often forget that the vocal people who frequent these boards tend to be bleeding edge tech lovers. For the average Joe who bought a Tungsten E a year ago and is now looking at upgrading, the new T5 will be a perfect fit.

Despite all the negativity here, I think this will be the best selling Tungsten T model of all the T series so far.

As for naming it T5 instead of T4? That is just good business sense, not only in China, but everywhere. Last I checked there were plenty of customers living in Europe and the Americas that are of Chinese descent.

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
Admin @ 10/5/2004 11:47:23 AM #
look at it this way, since the Tungsten E was announced a year ago, it has been palmOne biggest seller in each quarter since release and still today. For the last (fyQ4) quarter the top 5 selling palmOne devices were:

1. TE
2. zire 21
3. zire 31
4. zire 72
5. Tungsten T3

for the quarter the average selling price of all handhelds was $191

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
Gekko @ 10/5/2004 12:12:43 PM #

The TE might have sold well but if think you can do a minor tweak on a product and then DOUBLE THE PRICE by INCREASING it another $200 to $400 and have the same success, you and PalmOne are in for a rude awakening!

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
Admin @ 10/5/2004 12:50:00 PM #
G- I am just adding perspective, not trying to sell T5's
RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
borgiaX @ 10/5/2004 1:33:04 PM #
Its correct to point out that the TE2 does have some good points its another to say that they are worth $400.00. Or that people who are ready to upgrade now, should wait the six to eight months until the price of this new device comes close to reality.
Its correct to say Palm is looking at the market and trying to make a device to please bussiness customers, its another to say that those customers arent affected by marketing from HP, Dell and Microsoft regarding PPC.
Is this an example of Palm putting its best foot forward ??
The TE was that, simple, and very profitable.
TE2 ?? Wagers ladies and gents ?

Flagrans Veritatis Studio
RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
gfunkmagic @ 10/5/2004 4:36:11 PM #
>>>>look at it this way, since the Tungsten E was announced a year ago, it has been palmOne biggest seller in each quarter since release and still today

Ryan, thanks for the perspective. But as you also mentioned:

>>>for the quarter the average selling price of all handhelds was $191

Doesn't that mean the T5 is vastly overpriced though? I'm not saying the T5 is a terrible machine. It probably is a solid product, but is it worth it at that price point when the T3 itself didn't sell as well in that range? Perhaps PalmOne thinks they can leverage the success of the TE by releasing a pda with the same form factor in the high-end with added features. The problem is that consumers, by default imo, expect to have features like wifi and voice recorder for this price. If PalmOne had just added wifi and sold it for ~$450 bucks, I think there would be a vastly different reaction...just my .02 though... What do you think?

I support


RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
ss1543 @ 10/5/2004 5:45:33 PM #
The E sold because of it's price. At $400 Palm needs to put in the basic features that a high end user wants. Wifi, Bluetooth, voice recorder, changable battery. Palm can ignore the 3% of us that use these boards but I support over 500 users at my company. When they see me using a Palm they tend to think it's the way to go and ask questions about it. When I move to a Dell my user base will start thinking Dell may be the way to go. And at $297 for a Dell with all of the features mentioned above they might be right.

RE: Thoughts about this debacle to this time...
PIC-user @ 10/6/2004 10:55:29 AM #
Sound's like you work at Palmone. So for $399 wher is my cradle and other stuff I expect from a highend (top-of-the-line)device.
They listened with a deaf ear.

Tungsten T5's connector

dona83 @ 10/5/2004 2:48:38 AM #
Anyone notice that the Tungsten T5's connector looks exactly the same as the upcoming Treo 650's? It's universal connector version 2 haha.

Does anyone still buy PDAs?
Jejoma @ 10/5/2004 5:51:12 AM #
Does anyone but geeks actually buy PDAs now. I would have thought their sales minimal compared to the various smart phones around - Treos, MS Smartphones, Sony Ericsson P9xx etc

RE: Tungsten T5's connector
dona83 @ 10/5/2004 7:19:17 AM #
I got my fiancee a Zire 72 for her birthday because I felt all in all it's the best PDA available for the non-business consumers such as herself aside from the now defunct in North America Sony Clies. She loves the 1.3MP camera and ability to record videos w/ sound, playing mp3s, playing games when she's bored, accessing her Word and Excel spreadsheets, watching music videos and tv episodes, and of course the main reason we buy PDAs, the PIM programs. It's a perfect example of given you show the average Jane and Joe the capabilities of a current PDA, they may just get it not because they are a geek, but there's something in there that could help them be more productive, with a few neat little extras to relax and have fun. Will the T5 succeed? I think it very well could, I think the following will just be as strong as the original Tungsten T. However you are probably like me and would never consider these devices because they do not have mobile services integrated into them. ALthough admittedly my Treo 600 was a step back from Tungsten T, I feel that overall it's been the best purchase of my life thus far because PalmOS is designed for that sort of thing, increased productivity. I can't wait for my Treo 650 so I can finally get full PDA power again, in a phone. These are not just geek devices anymore, I don't think they were ever meant to be. You know why the Zire is so popular? People in general want PDAs, they just don't want to spend too much money on it. Anyway I dunno how we got off topic since I was originally talking about the connector for the T5 and 650 but oh well. :)

T3 or T5

zeon @ 10/5/2004 6:14:38 AM #
Just wanted a few comments on whether to choose a T3 or T5, as I want to replace my TE, since I hate the plastic case showing my fingerprints :(

From my point of view the T3 seems to be the best choice cause of the metal case, cradle and the $50 rebate...I don't complain about the lack of WiFi since I don't need it anyway...

The only worry I have about the T3 is, as I read this thread, the digitizer problem and the slider? Is the slider such a hassle?

Please post your reflection on this and whether you would buy a T3 or T5 in my situation - thanks :)

I really like the specs and features of the new Dell PPC, but I have always been a Palm user, and I simply won't spend lots of $$$'s to figure out that I hate the PocketOS...give me a Dell with the Palm OS :D

Please post your reflection on this - thanks :)


RE: T3 or T5
zeon @ 10/5/2004 6:25:32 AM #
Sorry, of course you don't need to comment on the whethter you would like a Dell with Palm OS... :D I know you would...
RE: T3 or T5
lamp @ 10/5/2004 8:02:54 AM #
Just a guess, but the T5 will likely be upgradeable to Cobalt. The T3 -- well, it's hard to say. Still, the T3 looks attractive, with or without an upgrade path.

RE: T3 or T5
gally @ 10/5/2004 11:04:25 AM #
If your reason to upgrade is primarily because of the case issues with your T|E, then the T|T3 is for you. I have not noticed a drift problem in my T3 - though I did have that problem eventually with the T|T. The slider is something of a form/fucntion preference. On the plus side, the slider means you can make the device more compact while still having large buttons for one-handed operations. On the minus side, the slider is not easily opened with one hand... and sometimes it is too easy to close inadvertently. Perhaps a spring-loaded slider with a lock button (to lock it open or closed) would be a better implimentation.

RE: T3 or T5
Sid_Sid @ 10/5/2004 2:11:15 PM #
>Just wanted a few comments on whether to choose a T3 or T5, as I >want to replace my TE, since I hate the plastic case showing my >fingerprints :(

>The only worry I have about the T3 is, as I read this thread, >the digitizer problem and the slider? Is the slider such a >hassle?

>Please post your reflection on this and whether you would buy a >T3 or T5 in my situation - thanks :)

I bought my T3 new about 8 months ago and have had absolutely no problems with it at all. The slider is no hassle for me.

RE: T3 or T5
hyperdaz @ 10/5/2004 6:47:43 PM #
"T5 will likely be upgradeable to Cobalt."

SORRY TO SPOT THE BLOODY stupid... but who says it will be upgradable to Cobalt.... no one knows when COBALT will be released.....

P1 will not comment on unreleased products and even when all products are released they wont let anyone upgrade...

T1 T2 why was there no upgrade on software for PALM OS???

when I purchased my TT I thought OS6 was just round the corner... six to eight months at tops... and PALM would do the good thing


buy last night I could not sleep... Was wondering how do you get to licence Palm OS... talk to a few hardware companies in china and bobs your uncle new PDA company... I am sure I could put the all kill PDA together and not just hardware mind you theres some very untapped software intergration that could go on under the covers.. which would create more freedom in how you used your device... so much so in fact I wish I could program..... or had some stacks of cash to get others to do the lovely work....

RE: T3 or T5
vesther @ 10/5/2004 7:24:56 PM #
Have you considered the Tungsten C or the Zire 72 as well?

Tell me, what is more important for you? Bluetooth? Wi-Fi? "Total Productivity Monster" Motto? How do you use your PDA? Do you Power Utilize your PDA (i.e. Games, Music)? Just curious.

Anyway, I would just wait until the TT5 comes out because the abscence of the slider is a welcome feature, but the TE oriented design is going to be a turn-off to some. I would also try to look at the TC or the Zire 72 as well if I were you. Otherwise, I would just wait until the TT5 comes out--even without the Voice Memo, the TT5 was meant to be a productivity monster, thanks to its flash drive capabilities.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

RE: T3 or T5
lamp @ 10/5/2004 10:05:27 PM #
SORRY TO SPOT THE BLOODY stupid... but who says it will be upgradable to Cobalt.... no one knows when COBALT will be released.....

Feh. Anger blinds you. You read and quote out of context. "IT WAS JUST A GUESS that the T5 will likely be upgradeable to Cobalt." No one said they knew. It's a point worth noting if people are holding out for Cobalt.

In the end, I still consider the T3 attractive, especially with a $50 discount.

RE: T3 or T5
Patrick @ 10/6/2004 3:40:46 AM #
Given P1's record of OS upgrades, I would not put any weight on the possibility of a Cobalt upgrade in thinking about a purchase. IMO, you should assume that whatever OS is on the device when you buy it will be the one on it when the screen finally flickers out for the last time.

And Win98?

twrock @ 10/5/2004 7:22:01 AM #
From the spec sheet:

• One available USB port and PC running Windows 2000 or XP

So I'm curious. The desktop software will not work with Win98? There's a pretty large base of Win98 users out there still.

RE: And Win98?
just_little_me @ 10/5/2004 9:37:14 AM #
'98 is a bitch to support if you want to do anything really useful. I totally understand palmOne dropping 98. Same reason many software titles on Palm OS only support 3.5 and above, or 4.0 and above... pre-3.5 devices sucked.

If you can't afford to upgrade to XP then you prolly shouldn't be buying a PDA for gods sake anyway.

Onward and upward...!


RE: And Win98?
Picard @ 10/5/2004 9:43:46 AM #
It will work with Windows 98

My guess is that you need Win 2000/XP to use the drive mode on T5. With Win 98, you need to install a driver CD to recognize it.

RE: And Win98?
Texonite @ 10/5/2004 10:58:12 AM #
98 just needs a USB-mass storage dirver. XP has it in.

Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(
RE: And Win98?
twrock @ 10/5/2004 8:20:14 PM #
>"If you can't afford to upgrade to XP then you prolly shouldn't be buying a PDA for gods sake anyway."

LOL. Some of us choose not to upgrade, not because we can't, but because we see no real reason to do so. Why, for heaven's sake, would I upgrade every time M$ comes out with another version just so I can continue with the rest of the hordes to put money in their vastly huge pockets? When I find I can't do something on an older piece of software or hardware that I really need or want to do, then I upgrade. Having the "latest thing" has never been a motivation for me.

RE: And Win98?
twrock @ 10/5/2004 8:26:54 PM #
And thank you all for the clarification. Makes me wonder why PalmOne would not simply state that in the list of supported systems instead of possibly looking like their product won't work with Win98.

RE: And Win98?
mikecane @ 10/6/2004 9:09:57 AM #
HotSync will probably work with Win98. File Transfer and Drive Mode probably won't. This is all conjecture.

All I know is that I have a 6-in-1 card r/w and it's a royal pain getting it to work with Win98. It needs a driver. And something keeps getting fouled up and I have many write errors. But when I use the same 6-in-1 with a Win2000 or XP system, there are *no* such problems.

Thank you again, Billg. May you and yours rot!

RE: And Win98?
jimboz1 @ 11/23/2004 4:30:10 PM #
Has anyone found out where to get a driver so that the T5 drive mode will be recognised by Win 98? If so please send me a link.

RE: And Win98?
ejb9901 @ 1/27/2005 11:48:04 AM #
jimboz1 did you ever find a driver for your T5 Win98 drive mode....I am experiencing the same problem.

The Bottom Line

Rob0101 @ 10/5/2004 8:38:23 AM #
I am not surprised that most are unhappy with this new offering, as most seem to be power users who prefer to still carry a separate phone. So, you all want amazing capability from your PDA.

I would be better served by the next Tréo device, having become addicted to the Tréo 600, and you might be, too. Why? Well it seems like the Tréo series is now PalmOne's top technology device.

Still, everyone's bringing out the hot issues:

1. It's the battery, stupid! What good is anything if it goes flat on you? If you want to carry around backup batt devices, go ahead; it shows your true dedication to your device. The fact is that in the beginning, these devices were designed to do PIM, and that was it. To do the multi-media stuff we all want to do now, better get a "T5" or a Treo 600, or a PPC.

2. What upgrade? An upgrade to me may not be an upgrade to you. If I had gone for the T3, I might upgrade, if only for a decent batt, but can understand why others would wait. I guess if you have a big budget, you can go for every upgrade that comes along. Those coming from an older Clié, for example would be thrilled with the "T5"...

3. What technology? Yeah. That was a great thing about the Clié, the app that let you "see" it as another drive on your PC. About time for P1. Glad they also figured out that if the batt does go flat, we don't want to lose all our data updates !!! Late, yes. Great, yes.

4. Defect to PPC? Here it depends on whether you like to spend your entire weekend on your PC/handheld. I personally shudder at the thought of going back to the PPC side, and having to port data, find corresponding apps, etc.
There is always a point at which technology starts to consume more time that it saves you, and I have the feeling, from my PPC experience 3 years ago, that that would be the case if I ever "went back".

For me, I think my PDA/smartphone should serve me, not consume me. So, I am thinking more and more that only smartphone products are really reliable enough and "plug and play" for me.

But for stand-alone, the "T5" is not bad if you don't need Wi-Fi. Add the Wi-Fi SDIO, and you are into rip-off territory! This "T5" is really meant for working with documents, with occasional Bluetooth connections using your mobile phone.

RE: The Bottom Line
Ou_Boet @ 10/5/2004 11:29:02 AM #
Agree with this post. I think that this is going to be a very successfull device for palmOne. True, it's more of a TE2 than a TT5, but the feature set is great. Recent posts on many forums showed that by far most users used their PDA's for basic PIM functions - even power users. This new device will perform well under this requirement.

We don't need more high-end fancy wow features that we don't use, we need a solid device to do a solid job. I think that the wait is over for me, my HE330 days are numbered.


Any device can have one more useful feature added.

HandEra Moderator at [url=""]PalmVenue[/url]

RE: The Bottom Line
tthiel @ 10/5/2004 12:49:10 PM #
HA! Hey did you hear we found the WMD's, that Saddam and Bin Laden were bunk buddies, and the earth is flat!

RE: The Bottom Line
vesther @ 10/5/2004 7:18:32 PM #
I think that the main selling point for this TT5 handheld is likely to be the Built-In Flash Drive and the Full-Time Hi-Res Plus Display feature. I think PalmOne wanted to market this one more as a full-time productivity machine, more like a traditional Digital Organizer Plus the Flash Drive, so I'm just gonna stick with my Palm Tungsten C for now, but I'll test drive one of these babies once this gunner is released.

Again, the Flash Drive might be the strongest point for this handheld, as this handheld is impressive with the exception of three key areas--no Wi-Fi, no Voice Recording Feature, and the design was based on the Tungsten E. Even though I expected better out of the Tungsten T5, I should say that the best feature would have to be the Flash Drive capabilities, so this one would likely turn out to be the ultimate productivity machine, as today's professionals need easy access to just about everything all over the place.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

RE: The Bottom Line
mikecane @ 10/6/2004 9:13:18 AM #
>>>There is always a point at which technology starts to consume more time that it saves you

Yes! And that tech has the initials PPC.

Why November 3?

Gekko @ 10/5/2004 9:28:58 AM #

Why are no review units ready yet? Is PalmOne hoping tons of sucker preorder BEFORE reviewers can actually get their hands on this pig and fully reveal its flaws?

This pig still isn't ready YET? They need another whole month? What the hell have these rocket scientists been working on for the last year? They took a T/E, dropped in a T/3 display and added some memory.

And they pulled a T5 with the Treo 650 as well.

RE: Why November 3?
mikecane @ 10/5/2004 1:46:35 PM #
Gekko, would you take a damned pill or something? You've already driven a stake through its heart, poured gasoline on it, lit a match, set fire to it, and then to boot, farted at its corpse -- and yet you want to read a REVIEW?

Man, there is something dreadfully wrong with your brainOS!


RE: Why November 3?
Gekko @ 10/5/2004 2:06:07 PM #

I want some answers, damn it!!! I want the truth!!!

RE: Why November 3?
rcartwright @ 10/5/2004 3:23:02 PM #
Gekko said:

"I want some answers, damn it!!! I want the truth!!!"

I think you just came up with the plot to the next "X Files" movie Gekko!

Rick C

RE: Why November 3?
LiveFaith @ 10/5/2004 5:33:13 PM #

You've got the Presidential debates. How much more TRUTH could a person possibly need! Look at what I mean ... :-D

Pat Horne;

RE: Why November 3?
dnicolaou @ 10/5/2004 5:51:22 PM #
You can't handle the truth!
Son, we live in a world that has walls...

RE: Why November 3?
mikecane @ 10/5/2004 7:14:14 PM #
Gekko, the truth is that even if it can HotSync with Win98, I'm still screwed out of Drive Mode and File Transfer, because I'm still stuck with Win98 (which actually does HS damned fast with the TE vs the S320!).

The hell with everyone else who is allegedly jumping to PPC. I've been there, no thanks. If the $ comes in, I'll get the TE2 (aka T5).

Bigger screen
More memory
Flash drive (OK, so I can only use it at the library and net caffs!)
Faster CPU (at this speed, it'll probably *anticipate* what I want to do!)

Wait Until Spring, Bandini.

Everyone will be screaming about how "palmOne is back!"

RE: Why November 3?
Texonite @ 10/6/2004 10:28:04 AM #
Mike, you'll BE ABLE to use "drive mode" It's same as all Digital Cameras, you'll just need to install "USB-mass-storage" driver.

Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(
RE: Why November 3?
InsGuy @ 10/8/2004 2:33:34 PM #
>>The hell with everyone else who is allegedly jumping to PPC. I've been there, no thanks. If the $ comes in, I'll get the TE2 (aka T5).<<

I know the T5 and not supporting Win 98 is pretty rough. I now know how some people felt when Palm said they would stop supporting Mac users. If you are that loyal to palm, I hope you don't have to wait to long to be able to get a T5. Good luck!

All good things...


momon526 @ 10/5/2004 9:36:44 AM #
Just to let you guys know that many forumers of the Philippine Palm Users group are also disappointed with this T5 unit, here's our link:

If we can post the world's Palm Users Group here, then probably CNET or Palm can hear their loyal Palm users going berserk!

Let's build a new Palm device from scratch

batmon @ 10/5/2004 12:01:08 PM #
Yeah.. T5 is a joke. I am still using my Palm m505. I have been waiting for "the one" ever since. I am not even a power user, all I want is just something that makes sense. All I want to use PDA for is the address book; watch movie, listen to music and browse Internet on-the-go.

- a internal SD, kinda like internal HDD. Doesn't one more SD makes more sense then your "new" flash RAM?? a 512MB SD is under $50 and data will remain in SD too~
- a nice movie and mp3 player so I can store them in my internal SD. How about a mp3 player that can show the CD album cover?
- WiFi (b/g) for web browsing.
- BT to use BT headphone
- VoIP features so I can do VoIP wirelessly. I know holding a big screen PDA to make a call is stupid. This is why I need BT for the BT headphone
- Cool looking unit

That's it and this is all we need for PDA, a small portable device that can to do things that we love to do everyday. All these technologies are available for so many years so why Palm can't include them?


RE: Let's build a new Palm device from scratch
LiveFaith @ 10/5/2004 5:49:37 PM #
RE: Let's build a new Palm device from scratch
vesther @ 10/5/2004 7:14:44 PM #
You're right about holding with the Palm M505--because I expected more than just "a single flash drive and full-time Hi-Res Plus". This is going to be grounds for me having to go back to my imaginative drawing pad to draw a "perfect" handheld, though Tungstens were meant to be used for businesses.

I'd rather see PalmOne build a really good handheld from scratch (new design scheme, etc) with features found only in red-flag Pocket PCs.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

TechXNY and the hp hx4700

mikecane @ 10/5/2004 1:36:49 PM #
I got to lightly fondle it.

I didn't think it was a brick at all. In fact, it is sleeker than the Toshiba VGAed PPC was/is. In fact, it is also *thinner* front-to-back too!

The screen is gorgeous, but so what? It's still PPC OS. I'd rather have the TE2 (aka T5).

I wasn't keen on the touchpad, either. Perhaps I'd get used to it -- if *palmOne* did something as adventurous (I hope they don't!) -- but the fact I couldn't find a *tutorial* for it in the device itself was disappointing. (Yes, I could've asked hp, but why do that? What's "intuitive" about having a rep nearby?)

Also saw the Pepper Pad. It's like a foot long, no kidding! I don't think it'll fly. The split keyboard is too damned confusing.

Did the "expo" in about an hour. It gets more pathetic each year.

RE: TechXNY and the hp hx4700
NewtonDKC @ 10/5/2004 3:18:40 PM #
I also didn't think I'd like the TouchPad and expected the unit to be big. I was pleasently surprised that it's actually quite comfortable, very think (almost as thing as my 4150 - despite what the specs might say and despite the fact it has CF and SDIO WiFi, BT and VGA!

The TouchPad does take some getting used to - the biggest problem is that it's easy to touch it - forgetting that area is a touchpad - and sending your app scrolling like there's no tomorrow! :-) But once you get over that, it's actually surprisingly useful.

The two modes (scroll mode - like a standard d-pad vs. Cursor mode - which gives you a cursor like a standard laptop or tablet PC and is great for using Terminal Services to remote control a PC wirelessly from the iPAQ!) are easily swapped by holding down the Contacts "button" (yep, under the "solid" looking pad are actual buttons - kind of like the iPOD mini). As for Help for it, just go into Settings -> Synaptics Touchpad, and then select the Help Button (or just select Start -> Help ->Settings -> SYnaptics NavPad). No harder than going into prefs and finding info for some of the Palm hardware buttons (like the directional pad). :-)

RE: TechXNY and the hp hx4700
Texonite @ 10/5/2004 3:48:52 PM #
There NO PPC to provide at least 25% functionality of PalmOne's D-Pad, naving my PDA with ONE hand. And you get the info about it just under your nose, when you get the PDA at the first time - it's a Quick Tour App.

Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(


oceanman177 @ 10/5/2004 2:10:37 PM #
Last week I received my Palm Tungsten C. I love it! Built in Wi-Fi, built in keyboard (that REALLY WORKS GREAT!), everything that ......well, that this T5 is not. And I got it for $299.00. Whatever is going through the P1 peoples heads, it just does not add up! This device does not have a different design, no wi-fi, keyboard, cradle, cobalt(this is the one that blew me away)- it's as if P1 did not listen to anyone on this one.
What a rip off!

Do the math.

duanemoody @ 10/5/2004 3:00:08 PM #
Brief history: Visor Deluxe>Handspring Treo>Tungsten E

I'm new here so I don't know if the T|E got as dumped on when it came out. FWIW if the E's case is a thin layer of metal on plastic you could have fooled me; in 18 months the metal didn't wear through anywhere (while it did get dents and scratches).

My E went missing for about 2 weeks and when I found it while housecleaning it was dead. The typical liquid crystal mess usually associated with a cracked screen (though it's intact), and the SD card was fried. No idea what happened.

I use Win2K at work, OS X Panther at home, and Debian Linux in both.

As I see it these are my ARM-based choices on how to spend $400:

1. The T5 which rewards PalmOne for coming up with yet another incompatible "universal, no really we mean it this time" interface, an SD card stuffed inside pretending to be general purpose flash memory, the current OS with no news on upgradeability, and no real sense of investing wisely in a reasonable time between hardware upgrades. Future OS X support no longer considered a priority. SDIO, the Springboard-killer considered the wave of the future despite remarkably limited development in this arena. Cobalt an OS looking for a machine to run it on.

2. A 128M Tapwave which is too big to fit in a pocket, doesn't advertise its OS specs or flashability, and runs the slowest ARM processor out there (200MHz) but does support CF devices and has Bluetooth onboard for what that's worth. Looks like the second coming of Handera to me: great idea married to tiny base of third party developers equals no sales.

3. Some PPC monstrosity, this time with a microOS still in its infancy, designed mainly to play Windows media and sync with Windows apps, and the added bonus of Microsoft's OS quality control. CF support a given. OS X support also a commercial solution. Same issues with future upgradeability.

4. Some SymbianOS monstrosity which brings back the glory days of proudly developing BASIC games for the Sinclair ZX81 and zero technical support this side of the Atlantic.

5. Sharp Zaurus 5600 running neither microOS but full-blown Linux with not J2ME but a real JVM. Hideable keyboard. CF support means microdrives could hold a full distro, or even through WiFi become a fileserver. Simultaneous CF/SD support. MOST importantly, Open source OS and applications, including OS X sync support. Reflashable OS for other Linux distros. Potential to run full office type applications with Microsoft interoperability. Strong likelihood of OS upgradeability for the next three years *regardless of Sharp's intervention* because Linux is not a bleeding edge CPU OS. Onboard compiler/development tools which can be used to develop for desktop platforms as well. Future dependency on Sharp: SMALL. Accessibility to Linux development community: LARGE. Bottom line: Real computer in your pocket.

Do the math. It's either #5 or just fork over another $260 and replace the E with another E equipped with a 256M SD.

RE: Do the math.
Alchemist42 @ 10/5/2004 8:11:02 PM #
A couple words about your device comments...

TapWave Zodiac
IMO (and I dont own one, just played with a friends) the Zodiac is about the most advanced Palm PDA out there... it was first to market with dual SD card slots, and the ability to use the internal memory as a storage card/device. Its processor is only 200mhz but it has a separate graphic accelerator chip with 8mb of on board ram for graphics... so it doesnt need to be 400mhz to get the job done... and the low mhz paird with 1500ma batteries give it a long battery life. As for software its a Palm so it will run all palm apps beautifully but also has the chops for doing better games than any palm in the past. So there is a 3rd party community making a few products for it... but thats just a bonus... all palm apps are available too.

Without a doubt, likely the most powerful handheld out there right now... IF your a tech person. There is lots of software out there for it... but most of it is linux apps you will have to port yourself... again great for the tech person, but a nightmare for the average user. If I was getting a machine to play with... it would be a Zaurus... but since I develop commercial software I gotta go where the software/userbase is... and Zaurus aint it.

RE: Do the math.
ganoe @ 10/6/2004 9:42:07 AM #
> Sharp Zaurus 5600 running neither microOS but full-blown
> Linux with not J2ME but a real JVM.

I have a Zaurus and there are plenty of nice open source apps for it. I'm not sure what you mean by "not J2ME but a real JVM." The two primary jvm's on the Zaurus are an old PersonalJava implmentation and a somewhat newer J2ME CDC Personal Profile implementation. Far more than anything on the Palm right now, and you can run plenty of Java (AWT) apps with it, but it's still techinically still J2ME.

The Office-type apps on the Zaurus from Hancom haven't seen an upgrade in years on the Zaurus. The PIM apps on the Zaurus need minor tweaking from Sharp before they'd be really nice, but they're OK. I have a Mac and there is no real OS X sync support for the Zaurus.

If you want to deal with the tweaking and hassles involved, I'm sure there will be non-Sharp OS upgrades for a few years to come. Having an open source OS is both a blessing and a curse, you end up with many different OS variants for the same device each with their own little issues and benefits. For those who want it, it is a computer in your pocket. Sharp has dropped support for the Zaurus outside of Japan. All in all, I'd never recommend that someone buy an unsupported device.

RE: Do the math.
ganoe @ 10/6/2004 10:02:38 AM #
I'll follow up myself, just to say that I was waiting to see where Sharp went with the SL-6000. It is quite a nice device. If they had supported it and released the dual Bluetooth/WiFi model in the US, I'd have bought one. As it is, they never released it and dropped support entirely.

If my Zaurus could sync with my Mac, I'd be in great shape right now. I have some Pocket PCs here for development purposes, but no desire to use them personally. At this point, I'm hanging onto my Zaurus and anxiously waiting for Palm OS 6.

Just in case P1 execs are browsing

DevPOV @ 10/5/2004 5:41:05 PM #
The T5 aka TE2 is an over-priced underachiever for the high-end line of Palm Powered PDAs. Too bad.

I just picked up a Dell Axim X30 with 624 MHz and integrated WiFi for $297.

PalmWHOEVER: Get a clue.

RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
mikecane @ 10/5/2004 7:21:03 PM #
Don't come back here crying at us next year, moaning about how'd you get the top-of-the-line Cobalt from palmOne -- except that you went and wasted your money on all that PPC software.

RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
hyperdaz @ 10/5/2004 7:26:07 PM #
Your dammed if you do Ya dammed if you dont.....

Dell Axim X30 = Pig Ugly

but I conclude thats the other strange thing... Palm spent how much R&Ding their slider to apply it to two devices... what a waste... and what a boring T5... I mean even the marketing pictures are lower quality then T1 & T3.... its just not adding up....

If their excuse of spending so much time in developing this is to be believed...

So many things dont add up maybe their new plants in china could not build anything higher quality....

RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
hyperdaz @ 10/5/2004 7:31:39 PM #
Maybe the cost of steal has rocketted just tooooo much..

RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
DevPOV @ 10/5/2004 10:07:53 PM #
MikeCane, I am apparently one of those types that can deal with more than one PDA at a time. I have 15 PDAs now. How many do you have?

RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
LiveFaith @ 10/6/2004 12:18:25 AM #
15 PDAs. Why hammer PalmOne? Surely a load of em are from them. Happy multiprocessing. :-)

Pat Horne;
RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
mikecane @ 10/6/2004 9:16:23 AM #
>>>I have 15 PDAs now. How many do you have?

I have 4. And I've had to carry three for the past month. I'll be glad when I'm back to one: the TE.

So, tell me, how many dorky Scott e-vests do you also own?

Carrying 3 PDAs
Strider_mt2k @ 10/6/2004 10:46:22 AM #
Talk about birth control! LOL

RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
IndyDave @ 10/6/2004 4:35:23 PM #
Birth control? LOL. Guess there are always things to be grateful for, eh?

RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
DevPOV @ 10/6/2004 7:25:09 PM #
For the record I'm a developer - I carry a Treo 600 and sometimes my fav T3. All the others (mostly Palms) are for testing.

RE: Just in case P1 execs are browsing
JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2004 4:24:42 AM #
Well in the US maybe, in the UK the high Dell Axim X30 is £280 ($499). I got my h4150 for £230 in March. The T3 could be bought for £250 or less on some places.

Dell Axim is pretty expensive.

Who uses WiFi anyway when there are hardly any free WiFi hotspots in London?

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

I expected better

vesther @ 10/5/2004 7:06:03 PM #
The abscence of the slider is a welcome feature. Bluetooth is great (though I'm more into Standard Wi-Fi over Bluetooth), though you have to shell up another $130 to add Wi-Fi Access via a Wi-Fi SDIO Card. I'm somewhat a little bit turned off by the Tungsten E-oriented design, though. I should also point out that the full-time Hi-Res Plus and larger battery are also welcome features. The new connector is also a plus, although I have to test drive one of these babies.

The lack of a Voice Memo is going to be a turn-off to people who desire a Voice Recording feature, but those who are still holding Palm Vx's from a long time ago might find this one to be worth the investment, but at $399, you can actually buy 2 Tungsten E's.

Once again, I find myself having to draw some sort of idea in order to create a high-value Palm-Powered Handheld for today's world.

Oh, the Built-In Flash Drive is also a welcome feature.

Overall, I expected better from PalmOne. Oh well, I'm just gonna stick with my PalmOne Tungsten C for a while, even though I'm gonna just test-drive the Tungsten T5.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

Palm's secret marketing ploy... Just a thought.

Alchemist42 @ 10/5/2004 8:30:00 PM #
Over the past few months as rumors circulated about the 'next great palm' sales of their existing models, especially the T3 likely slumped.

Perhaps palm has a backlog of T3 devices in a warehouse somewhere and they wanted to move it... releasing an updated Te and billing it as the successor to the T3 will make alot of users get off the fence and buy a T3 since the T5 doesnt meet their expectations.

This may even be a regular ploy of Palm One over the years... The III/IIIe/IIIx/IIIxe era or the Palm V/Vx and Palm 505/515 all were periods of very minor upgrades to freshen their line without offering anything new.

If this is the case, in a few months after the T3 inventory has been reduced we will likely see a new product. Using past releases this would likely be in Feb/Mar/April timeframe. Just as the IIIx/IIIxe paved the way for the IIIc and the m505/515 blazed a path for the Tungsten-T its possible the T5 is a mere hiccup on the way to what we are waiting for.

The big question is... with all the choices out there now... by the time palm gets it right... will anyone care.

RE: Palm's secret marketing ploy... Just a thought.
Texonite @ 10/6/2004 11:15:11 AM #
Very impressive. I can agree with that.

As long as they have made not so much additions to TE, and Treo 650 is also not sooooo different from Treo 600, i hope that they have spent this time on something, that we can't imagine now.

Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(

My decision: T3 forever (or at least 6 months)

JShoo @ 10/5/2004 9:24:57 PM #
My decision is to stick with my T3, which is only 5 months old. No other option is even remotely attractive.

QVGA Power PC: Give me a break. Mostly plastic, with screens half the size of T3.

VGA PPC: Just beginning to be released. PPC users are complaining Microsoft got display support wrong in the OS (too big = not enough displayed on screen). Even if that's not the case, any advantage over the T3 is not worth $600-$700, and throwing away all my software & accessories.

T5: Too many negatives, not enough positives to make it worth the money. For a fraction of that $400 I could add the T5's new features to my current T3. Would have to spend even more to upgrade peripherals.

So all I have to do now is wait for the T6. Has anybody heard any rumors yet?

RE: My decision: T3 forever (or at least 6 months)
LiveFaith @ 10/6/2004 12:21:28 AM #
I've talked with insiders about the T6. It's supposed to be the killer Palm of all time. It is in the same case as the Zire 21 except in executive gray, but with a color 320x320 screen, 512mb of flash memory, 144mhz processor, a Sears DieHard battery with 550 cold cranking amps, no bluetooth, no ir, no SD slot, no voice recorder, no MP3, 2 app buttons, and a connector that the insiders call the "final solution". Most importantly it is to use Palm OS 5.99b, since PalmOne was able to get most features in it without using Cobalt. Best of all they will be able to release it for less than $499. I'm already short-selling on Dell & HP as I write this. Wooohooo!!!

Pat Horne;
RE: My decision: T3 forever (or at least 6 months)
Patrick @ 10/6/2004 3:53:01 AM #
I think this will be my decision, too... stick with my T3 until a better Palm comes along. I've thought about PPC mostly cause I'm a gadget hound, but I just can't do it. No, really, I can't.

Hey Pat... that T6 of yours is a steal at $499! One question: does it come with a power button or is that an accessory?

RE: My decision: T3 forever (or at least 6 months)
JohnM @ 10/6/2004 6:47:27 AM #

Well, I've got one of the gun-metal colored Palm units. The
case is plastic, but I must say it it feels amazingly rugged.
It was a gigantic leap forward over any previous model available
from any other vendor. The $400+ retail was steep, but I can't
thank Palm enough for releasing the unit. (It's a IIIc!)

Forever on Palm,

MISKINIX - A new environment for Palm

RE: My decision: T3 forever (or at least 6 months)
hes @ 10/6/2004 7:44:00 AM #
To all who want to upgrade from T3 to T5, Buy 256MB SD card and Card export ver 2.0 instead, then you'll have T5 capabilities w/o losing the ability of the voice recorder.

Maybe that's what pre-occupied P1 R&D for a year, they added an internal SD card and bought the technology from Softick put it all together in a TE box with a slightly fast processor and voila,T5,and of course,dont forget to add the $ mark-up to rip us off and sell us an upgraded TE by re-branding it as the T5.

Very Clever

RE: My decision: T3 forever (or at least 6 months)
mikecane @ 10/6/2004 9:18:37 AM #
Well, the actual rumor is that there is a C2 coming before year's end. But this is just a *rumor*.

RE: My decision: T3 forever (or at least 6 months)
jayman @ 10/6/2004 9:35:06 AM #
I had been waiting for the imminent release of the T5 because of my girlfriend's sudden need to have a Palm. (The "killer application" for her is TomTom Navigator.) I thought I could buy a shiny new T5 for myself and give her my T3.

I don't mind the plastic case nor the lack of wifi (as I have a PalmOne wifi card but that sucks power very quickly so a Power-to-Go sled is useful). What killed the T5 for me is the lack of the voice recorder (which, although I don't use it often, doesn't mean to say that I've never used it) and the new connector (no power sled, no TomTom cradle, etc).

Looking at the prices, I've seen that the T5 will be available in the UK for £274.95 ( - estimated delivery of 7 days ?!?) whilst the cheapest I've currently found the T3 for is £232.95 ( No prizes for guessing which one I ordered this morning!

(I noticed that the T3 appears to be at the top of Expansys's bestseller list again and both they and are out of stock. Perhaps the release of the T5 has triggered a surge of T3 orders like mine ?)

RE: My decision: T3 forever (or at least 6 months)
Altema @ 10/6/2004 12:41:41 PM #
I'll probably be keeping my T3 for a little longer too. Oh, BTW, it runs fine at 532MHz. Totally un-necessary, but it flies along perfectly stable.

Vicious comment. VICIOUS.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 5:00:58 AM #
I've talked with insiders about the T6. It's supposed to be the killer Palm of all time. It is in the same case as the Zire 21 except in executive gray, but with a color 320x320 screen, 512mb of flash memory, 144mhz processor, a Sears DieHard battery with 550 cold cranking amps, no bluetooth, no ir, no SD slot, no voice recorder, no MP3, 2 app buttons, and a connector that the insiders call the "final solution". Most importantly it is to use Palm OS 5.99b, since PalmOne was able to get most features in it without using Cobalt. Best of all they will be able to release it for less than $499. I'm already short-selling on Dell & HP as I write this. Wooohooo!!!

Pat Horne;

I rebuke you, Satan!

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

AvantGo Survey Results vs. T5

Gekko @ 10/6/2004 8:46:41 AM #

The AvantGo survey revealed the following "top 12" must-have features of an all-in-one dream device:

1. Calendar/contact list
2. Easily syncs with PC
3. Great battery life
4. E-mail/messaging
5. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth
6. Compact size
7. MP3 player
8. Phone
9. Large screen
10. GPS locator
11. 20+ gigabyte memory
12. Camera

RE: AvantGo Survey Results vs. T5
Gekko @ 10/6/2004 8:52:26 AM #

p.s. thanks 'akemp'

Thank you, PDA24/7!

mikecane @ 10/6/2004 9:20:29 AM #
I'd like to interrupt this kvetchfest to give some thanks to the site PDA24/7 for breaking the embargo on the TE2 (aka T5).

palmOne did a very good job smothering leaks about this unit, but somehow PDA24/7 was able to sidestep p1's security measures and give us the scoop.

Thank you, PDA24/7, for keeping the spirit of leakage alive!

Come on, show your gratitude too!

RE: Thank you, PDA24/7!
tooele @ 10/6/2004 9:13:37 PM #
I thought the pictures were fake at first because one of the pictures of the box had a T3 on it but this just turned out to be a mistake. I am thankful that they warned us in time so I could keep my T3 and not sell it to buy this overpriced TE2 with it's cheap plastic casing and upgrades so minor it's cheaper to just by an SD card and 16Mhz upgrade in processor ooh impressive.


PIC-user @ 10/6/2004 10:34:07 AM #
Total dissapointment in my opinion. I can't believe I waited a year for this - year old -technology. It makes my Tungten-T seem even more appealing and refreshing! Where is the nice metal case, the wifi, OS6!? This is a TE2 not a T|T5! Perphaps if it was released that way it woudl have made more sense, way more sense! The proverbial nail in the coffin for Plam if they don't wake up and start listeining to their customers. They have taken three steps back in creativity. I agree with others when Palmone did not lose business to PPC they gave it to them!

What happened! did they lose their creative ummphh when handspring was consumed and Sony left the scene?

I hope they wake up real soon and please their longtime customers or I for one will have to take a leap on the dark side.

New T5 pics -- from Thailand!

mikecane @ 10/6/2004 12:36:00 PM #
Geez, do these units get around! (But never to me!)

Check out the screen snaps too!

RE: New T5 pics -- from Thailand!
JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2004 4:21:32 AM #
Looks nice. I love the colour on this unit despite is being the same design as the TE.

OS 6

dnazz @ 10/6/2004 12:59:08 PM #
Since most Palm customers are very disappointed about the T5 not having WiFi and OS6 (among other things), along with the many posts that the PalmOne folks really do read most of these posts, can the PalmOne team come clean as to why these features were not placed on the T5, what the status is of OS6, and will OS6 be offered as an upgrade for T3 and T5 customers?

RE: OS 6
Strider_mt2k @ 10/6/2004 2:32:11 PM #
They probably could, but won't.

They have already demonstrated that they are not concerned with what we think.

RE: OS 6 - All those nagging questions answered:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 6:21:29 AM #
Since most Palm customers are very disappointed about the T5 not having WiFi and OS6 (among other things), along with the many posts that the PalmOne folks really do read most of these posts, can the PalmOne team come clean as to why these features were not placed on the T5,

Wi-Fi was omitted to save money (decreased hardware and support costs). OS 6 omitted because 6.0 was known to be buggy and 6.1 was under development at the same time as the T5 and potentially might not have been available in time to be included on the new model. Since very few people (real users - not Palminfocenter readers) care about what OS is on their Palm, it made a lot of sense to use a stable, friendly OS that was already available.

what the status is of OS6,

6.1 has "gone gold" and is available. But no licensee (other than Sony) is yet brave/dumb enough to put it on a new model.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: OS 6
dnazz @ 10/7/2004 2:37:39 PM #
Have you heard if Palm is going to offer OS6.1 as an upgrade for T3 and T5 customers, or are they going to wait and bundle it with the "T?" and force everyone to purchase a new PDA to get the benefits of the new OS?

T5 User Manual, Photos etc. from FCC

Gekko @ 10/6/2004 1:14:12 PM #
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but some may not know this. There's lots of info on the T5 available on the FCC site - including the User Manual:

[link removed]

RE: T5 User Manual, Photos etc. from FCC
Gekko @ 10/6/2004 1:16:08 PM #

sorry - bad link above - enter 'O3W' for the grantee code, then choose the 10-4-04 submission.

RE: T5 User Manual, Photos etc. from FCC
statik @ 10/6/2004 4:12:17 PM #
Awesome find. The manual cleared up some of my questions.

- No, there is no voice recorder.

- Yes, the file drive will work with Macintosh computers.

- Yes, both the file drive and the 55 megs of program space are saved if the batteries die.

RE: T5 User Manual, Photos etc. from FCC
merfy @ 10/6/2004 6:17:02 PM #
Well, I never bought a handheld before, because I know I would not be so meticulous to recharge the handheld regularly, and avoid loss of my data.
So I find it a MAJOR advance that data stored in the handheld is not lost when the battery is drained.
So this handheld would be usefull to me; although the price is steep.
I am going to wait and see if the new Dell Axim which comes out in a month or so has the same data protection with battery drain as the T5; if it doesn't, then I am going to go with the T5 (despite the price).
RE: T5 User Manual, Photos etc. from FCC
LiveFaith @ 10/7/2004 12:08:04 AM #
Good point merfy. Nothing else can do that.

Pat Horne;
T5 User Manual, spy photos etc. from the good, ole FCC
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 6:54:19 AM #
Actually, the CLIE UX50 already does that. And I believe a few other models as well

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: T5 User Manual, Photos etc. from FCC
endtransmit @ 10/11/2004 6:08:45 PM #
I know this is gonna make me sound oldschool, but my Newton Messagepad 2000 had nonvolatile internal flash memory in 1997.

It also currently supports (due to dedicated developers) Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and perfect HWR that far surpasses Graffiti 1 or 2. With ATA card support drivers made by Paul Guyot it also supports SD cards... and it has a 200mhz ARM processor, not bad for 1997. Yes, it's 16-colour greyscale. It also gets weeks of battery life.

The biggest downside? Yep, it's HUGE. It will fit in a pocket, provided that pocket is a trenchcoat pocket. I use my Newton and my Palm Zire 71 as my primary PDAs, but due to size the Zire is on me more often.

Anyway, I digressed, but the main point I have here is that nonvolatile memory is nothing new, it's just been forgotten and only re-remembered now with the T5. I have no idea why it took so long.



cliff_l @ 10/6/2004 8:56:04 PM #
I really am surprised that Palm did not include WI-FI in their lastest Tungsten model, though it's nice to know that the SD WI-FI card will work! I'm wondering about the "Multi-connector that is referred to - Are we to assume that the cradle, power suppies, keyboards and other acc. won't be usable with the T-5, over the years I've purchased several palm pilots & since the palm V series, you could use the cradles & power supplies with the newer stuff.
They should have offered a choice of WI-FI or Bluetooth....Unless you have a compatible phone, it's not much use....

Tungsten T5, NO!!!!!

jackson_chee @ 10/6/2004 11:10:32 PM #
I thought that the Tungsten T5 will be run on OS 6 with Bluethooth and WiFi built-in, but it's seem that PalmOne had cheated us and it a profit making company of all. Why I said like that? Can anyone differ the spec of T3 and T5? They are same machine, although T5 offer more RAM and ROM....

And I don't think that T5 offer multitasking functional, so..... useless.

My T6 & future Palm wishlist
vwykchr @ 10/7/2004 3:21:02 AM #
• Palm Tungsten T6 - after 3 months of low sales, the T5 is discounted & the T6 is launched - OS 6, WiFi, the return of the UC (IO only?) and faster cpu. Voice recorder returns, as well as the T's alluminium body, but not the slider. Battery is increased to 1500 mAh... The C2 is also launched - it's a T6 w/ thumb keyboard (removable or flip keypad design?) The E2 is (re)launched - it's a T5 w/ only 64/128MB of ram - still has hard Grafitti area? The Zire 32 & 73 is launched as well. Z32 has 32MB ram & hi-res 320*320 at last! Z73 has 3.2 MP cam & 128MB ram w/ T5 screen. Comes with BT adaptor for TV output of pics. The Z32 is later rebranded as a Palm Duet - with hdd & sold with Real music download service subscription. Comes with colour inserts (a la M105 series) in the box. Removable battery. Smaller form factor than Z31...
• Tapwave Z 0 & 3 - Zer0 is a mini version of the 1 or 2. Trinity is a 2 w/ hdd. Both w/ built-in TV-out.
Zodiac 5 - built-in WI-FI, BT & GSM. 1st Palm w/ 640*480 screen.
• Alphasmart Dana 2 is a 960*640 widescreen tablet style Palm w/ built-in dvd-rom & TV-out. Support for Tapwave games. With or w/o keyboard.
• Palm OS mp3 / multimedia player. Hdd & SDCard expansion. BT for cars w/ BT handsfree? Intelligent BT software to auto-mute Palm w/ call.
• Palm OS in the automotive & ICE industry? Camcorder & digital cam w/ Palm OS?
• Palm GSM SDcard?
RE: Tungsten T5, NO!!!!!
JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2004 4:16:20 AM #
jacksonchee, when has palmOne promised the successor to the T3 would have OS6 and WiFi? To my knowledge they have not.

So don't complain you have been cheated because they did not lie to us.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

RE: Tungsten T5, NO!!!!!
just_little_me @ 10/7/2004 6:20:01 AM #
Spot on.

It's stupid wish lists that screw up everyone's perception (especially lame arses who can't think for themselves like the twat who started this thread), and make people think somehow that they are reality.

"But I'm sure I read on PIC that the T5 will have a fish finder in it... god palmOne suck - I really like fishing".


Does Tungsten 5 have a fish finder?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 7:01:07 AM #
I heard on PIC it did, but I couldn't find it at the FCC site.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Tungsten T5, NO!!!!!
grahamnind @ 10/7/2004 7:15:57 AM #
I think a metal detector would be better than a fish finder. Then we could comb beaches and picnic sites etc looking for coins to try and recoup some of the money we have spent.

Does Tungsten 5 have a fish finder?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 10:52:46 PM #
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 7:01:07 AM

I heard on PIC it did, but I couldn't find it at the FCC site.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Tungsten T5, NO!!!!!
grahamnind @ 10/7/2004 7:15:57 AM

I think a metal detector would be better than a fish finder. Then we could comb beaches and picnic sites etc looking for coins to try and recoup some of the money we have spent.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Palm1 President: T5 is the first step

JShoo @ 10/7/2004 3:06:54 AM #
PalmAddict quotes Ed Colligan, President of PalmOne "the T5 is the ‘first step’ in creating a solution that we believe is needed in the marketplace. WiFi is part of our ongoing plans…but was never intended for the T5."

He says that the Tungsten C has WiFi and is only a "moderate" seller.

RE: Palm1 President: T5 is the first step
grahamnind @ 10/7/2004 5:07:53 AM #
So Ed Colligan says that the Tungsten C has WiFi and is only a "moderate" seller.

Just goes to show how out of touch Palm are! For me, the reason I didn't buy a Tungsten C was because it didn't have Bluetooth. I have a Bluetooth Sd Card for my m130, but it doesn't work on OS5. If Palm had released OS5 bluetooth drivers, I might have bought the TC.

Dual wireless is what we want. Dual wireless is what we want. Dual wireless is what we want.

How many times do we have to say it before the message gets through?

RE: Palm1 President: T5 is the first step
JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2004 5:42:09 AM #
The T5 is dual wireless (IrDA and Bluetooth).

The Treo 650 is dual wireless (GSM and Bluetooth).

WiFi still commands a small market and there (from what I noticed) hardly any free hotspots in London.

My h4150's WiFi is rarely used unless I travel to a specific place to connect. What is the point in that?

Give me bluetooth, save the money from not installing WiFi for something else (in this case palmOne opted for a bigger battery and more memory).

RE: Palm1 President: T5 is the first step
grahamnind @ 10/7/2004 6:28:14 AM #
I agree with you, up to a point. I think Bluetooth is far more useful than Wifi, most of the time, which is why I bought a T2 rather than a TC. Hotspots are still to fulfil their potential in UK. Wifi would be very useful if you have access to a home or office LAN, as I have. Saves having to lug a laptop round.

I would like to have the choice to use BT or Wifi, as PPC users have. My external Bluetooth card which I used to use with my m130 snapped, so I don't want a fragile external Wifi card, but want both internal, as PPC users have.

I love PalmOS and probably won't defect to PPC, but Palm seem to be making it difficult for people to stay.

RE: Palm1 President: T5 is the first step
mikecane @ 10/7/2004 11:11:16 AM #
Well of course the TC is a moderate seller, Colligan! It's SSS = Small Square Screen! The *T5* with WiFi built-in would've been a step up.

Better bundle that T5 with that WiFi SD card on date of sale (and I'd better damn well have the $ for it!).

RE: Palm1 President: T5 is the first step
vike @ 10/8/2004 4:31:16 AM #
If Palm doesn't "deploy" wi-fi (bundling or otherwise but at any rate in the mind of the consumer) they may miss out on some very important openings in the market. Case in point: Voice IP via PDA via wi-fi hotspots ( - PPC has it, Palm doesn't. It's a major opportunity here in Europe because of the international roaming charges on the GSM networks.

IMHO, the average consumer here was introduced to the whole PDA concept via bundled PPCs + car navigation in the big retail chains here. For years you this landslide was totally owned by PPC - Palm was _nowhere_ in sight. Don't miss the next one, Palm.

T5 has better coating & look than TE

JShoo @ 10/7/2004 3:22:36 AM #
A Brighthand review says that the T5 has a different & better coating than the easily scratched T|E. They also said the T5 looks better.

PalmOne's marketing research shows that most users always extend their T3 slider. Eliminating the slider also allowed the larger battery in the T5.

RE: T5 has better coating & look than TE
JonathanChoo @ 10/7/2004 4:11:05 AM #
Well I agree that most users extend the slider when using but I also love the slider because its more pocketable (and the design is nice).

It does not matter to me that it also uses plastic (most PDAs and mobile phones uses plastic anyway). The aluminium case of the m5xx and T series held alot of static and probably caused the death of some m5xx's series ports.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

RE: T5 has better coating & look than TE
svrontis @ 10/7/2004 2:36:38 PM #
> ... I also love the slider because its more pocketable ...

Don't agree with you there. I purchased a TE to replace my T2, because the TE was much better in the 'shirt pocket test' department. A thin and light device is always going to have a big edge for this reason alone.

The other reason I ditched my T2 was that I just couldn't tolerate the slider. I know other people like the slider, but it was not for me.

RE: T5 has better coating & look than TE
JonathanChoo @ 10/8/2004 5:55:53 AM #
well I don't keep my PDAs in my shirt pocket (because I hardly wear one). I use my side jacket pocket or my jeans.

I like short 'stumpy' devices. ;)

WMD and Wifi

grahamnind @ 10/7/2004 7:36:10 AM #
Do people not think it strange that in the same week that we discovered that Saddam had no WMDs, we also discovered that the T5 has no Wifi. Both words beginning with W was the first clue. Is George 'W' Bush involved? Am I the only one who has connected these events and suspect a global conspiracy? Can we legitimately surmise that, like Saddam, Palm's intention was there to produce a handheld with Wifi? Is intention to produce enough, or must there be evidence of real activity? Do we need a survey group to raid PalmHQ and uncover the truth?

So many questions are troubling me.. who can give any answers?


ronpro @ 10/7/2004 11:36:18 AM #
I can't find anywhere on the PalmOne website description of T5 that Kinoma is included. Has PalmOne dropped Kinoma? I don't see anything that could be a possible replacement.

RE: Kinoma?
Admin @ 10/7/2004 12:33:45 PM #
it looks like there is a new palmOne media player on the device, that does both photos and video.
RE: Kinoma?
FredLL @ 10/8/2004 5:12:34 AM #

Short Changed on Memory

mopcodes @ 10/7/2004 12:44:18 PM #
The T5 sounds interesting and granted it's a step forward...but what about OS 6? What not a gig of memory? I just bought two one gig usb thumb drives for $84.00! They are kick ***! :-)
No wi fi? Bummer. Let's try again Palmone!

D. Martin
Former Amiga/Commodore Author/Writer/Reviewer

T5 video

mikecane @ 10/7/2004 1:08:42 PM #
Thanks Palm Addict and PDA24/7 for the tip!

-- this makes interesting viewing. 7 minutes. The first snippet has no sound other than clicking, so don't think the video is defective!

HD in an SD!

mikecane @ 10/7/2004 6:18:04 PM #
Holy cow!

-- now, can the TE2's (aka T5)'s SD slot handle *this*?

Limping along ....Now what???

janust @ 10/7/2004 7:00:03 PM #
I've had a T1 since they came out. It is on it's last legs and I need a new one - I was limping along with it waiting until I could see the new T5.

So it is out - but wait Not for another month and with a lot less features.\
So PalmOne has abandond Mac, put out an expensive machine with few real upgrades or improvements.....

So now what..DUDE you Got a DELL??????

RE: Limping along ....Now what???
JShoo @ 10/7/2004 9:11:56 PM #
The T5 is Mac compatible. P1 says one of the reason they stuck with OS5.x was for that reason.
RE: Limping along ....Now what???
JonathanChoo @ 10/8/2004 6:02:21 AM #
palmOne DID NOT abandon Mac support - something some people will never learn. Please point me to a palmOne issued press statement that they are dropping support for Mac in future releases!

What 'alot less features' are we talking about here when compared to the T3 (or your T)? Apart from missing the voice recorder (something that I rarely used anyway) - everything else has improved.

Faster and newer processor, better battery management, 160Mb ROM space and bigger battery, latest DocumentsToGo 7 etc.

Sure, the T5 could be better, but claiming that it has lost alot of features is just plain dumb.

Releasing a Lemon on purpose?

Jtrizzo @ 10/7/2004 8:26:19 PM #
Okay, okay, *most* of us admit this Palm is a lame duck. Here is my theory as to why they put out such a poor model. I think they released this one to increase sales of the T3. It worked on me. Now that I know that the Tungsten Line isn't improving much. I am willing to spend my saved up upgrade money on the T3 instead of waiting for a later, better model.
BTW: When is this downward pricing pressure on the T3 going to sweep the market? PalmOne knocked the T3 price down $100 CDN dollars ($100USD), but retailers (staples, futurshop) and ebay have not dropped their prices. Comon! I want my new T3 NNNNOW.

Casseopea A-10>Casseopea E-10>M125>m130>T1>?T3orT5?
RE: Releasing a Lemon on purpose?
Jtrizzo @ 10/7/2004 8:34:57 PM #
my mistake, $50USD price drop

Casseopea A-10>Casseopea E-10>M125>m130>T1>?T3orT5?
RE: Releasing a Lemon on purpose?
JShoo @ 10/7/2004 8:59:14 PM #
Why not take a look at the T5 before buying T3? The T5 is clearly better in a number of areas, and the price difference is only $50. Unless voice recorder is required or the T5 is rejected because it is incompatible with universal connector peripherals, then the decision comes down to look and feel. If look & feel, why not touch the T5 before deciding?
RE: Releasing a Lemon on purpose?
Jtrizzo @ 10/7/2004 11:28:24 PM #
I am looking at the T3 because I already own the universal connector keyboard, and I bought the accessory package which goes accross the Tungsten line until the T5. The voice recorder is a must have for my classes. And... well... I am sucker for the slider gimmick.

I guess I am just not sold on the Rom feature of the T5. I already use a SD flashcard and have a USB dongle (huh huh ...dongle) adaptor for my SD card. So I already have the equivalent of the Rom on the T5. I also can make up for the OS upgrade by using Zlauncher. In fact, I still think Zlauncher looks better than the images on the T5 OS upgrade.

BTW: THe fools on eBay are still paying roughly retail for the T3... wake up! Slow market shift...

Casseopea A-10>Casseopea E-10>M125>m130>T1>?T3orT5?

"Oooo... a lesson in Don't-Change-History from Mr. I-Am-My-Own-Grandfather!"
-Professer Farnsworth (Futurama)

Fatal flaw on T5: Bad Display?
JShoo @ 10/8/2004 3:55:55 AM #
PDABuyersGuide reports:

"The [T5] display is a tad dull in the color and brightness department compared to the Tungsten T3 and recent Pocket PC competitors. Perhaps palmOne cut back on brightness to conserve battery power, but the colors aren't as rich in comparison. Not that the display is terrible, but it's not one of the best out there."

RE: Releasing a Lemon on purpose?
Stargazer @ 10/8/2004 4:50:52 PM #
"When is this downward pricing pressure on the T3 going to sweep the market? PalmOne knocked the T3 price down $100 CDN dollars ($50USD), but retailers (staples, futurshop) and ebay have not dropped their prices. Comon! I want my new T3 NNNNOW."

I'm surprised it's taking so long. FWIW, London Drugs had the reduced price advertised in their flyer the weekend before Palm's news release. As of right now, shows the new lower price. I'm still waiting for staples to drop their price though because I have a bunch of gift cards I want to use up.

Although, I'll probably choose the T5 because it's what I would have wanted the T3 to be in the first place (don't need WiFi, Voice memo; love the fullsize screen and battery life). Plus, spending gift cards isn't like spending my own money :0)

OS 6.x

ronpro @ 10/7/2004 10:19:03 PM #
Does anyone know if PalmOne has even licensed OS 6.x? For me, that is the only let down with the T5 -- It's lack of OS 6.x. If I knew that PalmOne were working to release an OS 6.x update to the T5 sometime after the release of the device itself; it would make all the different in the world to me. At this point, I'm certain there will be no OS 6.x for my T3.

Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?

PALMNUTZ @ 10/8/2004 1:34:00 AM #
Hate the price, look, no power lite, no vibration battery, plastic case, no voice recorder, no cradle, no universal connector of the T5---really the E2. So, today, I bought the T3 at Futureshop in Canada. It's beautiful and does what I need it to do. Used their "Match Price" guarantee to drive down the price to $300 US. Not bad. Bought the 3 year performance guarantee for a lousy $40 US. My cellphone works with Bluetooth and I don't need WIFI. I don't need parallel processing in a PIM. My laptop is for that. I don't need my Palm to listen to music. I got an 40 GB 4th generation IPOD for that. If I want to watch a movie, I'll do it on my 36 inch HDTV, not on a 3 inch square screen, thank you very much. T3 is perfect. Don't need more. All the people complaining that the T5 doesn't meet their needs obviously did not live and work at any job before Palm existed or when the Vx was the top of the line. So, you 10 year olds, please stop your whining. If you don't like the T5, use something else. Of course, the T5 is over-priced and misnamed. It's a joke. The only advance over the T3 is the extra memory and use of flash memory if it doesn't degrade with use. If you prefer the PPC, use and buy that. Go rant about the PPC's flaws in their forums. If Palm survives, eventually, they'll launch a new unit that has a quality camera, voice recording, mountains of memory, multi-processing etc., and you'll buy it if you want. Have a little patience. Sheesh! You were all crazy about the T3 only 1 year ago. And you're not willing to give this David of a company even 1 more year to come out with a new product to rival the performance of Microsoft's Goliath PPC? Shame on you. Grow up, for gosh sakes. You sound like a bunch of insolent children.
RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
Strider_mt2k @ 10/8/2004 6:37:14 AM #
Geesh, how much more time do they NEED?

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
JonathanChoo @ 10/8/2004 6:45:45 AM #
Can someone tell me why many people are so angry at palmOne for not releasing their 'dream device'?
RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
mikecane @ 10/8/2004 8:03:37 AM #
The perception is that the "competition" (hah! -- PPC, that abomination) is adding features at price points that palmOne seems to blissfully, blithely, cavalierly ignore. The perception is that this is the same slow downward spiral that Apple took in response to Windows. "Feh! We're *Apple* -- we do things better!"

Only time will tell if the market share for PalmOS PDAs shrinks to the point of the Mac vs. Windows.

I think when Cobalt devices are released next year, we'll see a swing back.

But then, look at my record for Predictions. Nyahahah!

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
grahamnind @ 10/8/2004 8:50:41 AM #
Quote "Can someone tell me why many people are so angry at palmOne for not releasing their 'dream device'?"

I think there are a number of very good reasons why people are angry with Palm
Take 3 issues: Wifi, battery life and Sony


Quote first posting in this thread "And you're not willing to give this David of a company even 1 more year to come out with a new product to rival the performance of Microsoft's Goliath PPC? "
The reality is we could all have Wifi cards now if Palm had not been so stubborn. Sandisk have cited the reason their Wifi card only supports the Zire 71 is because Palm have refused to give them the information they need to make it compatible with other Palms. C-Guys say the same: they are trying their hardest to produce Palm drivers.
This is obviously a marketing ploy. Palm wanted us to wait for their own card. Fair enough; that's their prerogative. We wait and wait, but then find it only works on the T3, T5 and Zire 72 . So those of us with T2s, for example, now have a choice. Wait for Sandisk or C-Guys to produce drivers, which may never materialise, or upgrade our machines.
I have a pefectly good T2, which I don't particlarly want to upgrade. If I want Wifi I have to spend $349!

Battery life

Most people agree that one of the main issues with the T3 is poor battery life. This could have been resolved months ago. There is a thread at Brightand where people have cannibalised the battery monitor from their Tungsten batteries and soldered them on to higher capacity batteries. Long live Heath Robinson! They are getting about 30% increase. Palm could easily sell an upgraded battery, or release a 'refreshed' T3 with a better battery. Little R&D costs would have ben involved. Why don't they? Probably because, again, they want us to buy the T5.


Why have Sony pulled out of the Palm market? One of the reasons is that they could no longer compete on price with Dell. One factor they cited is that the Palm OS license is too expensive.

I could go on. I don't think it's just that people are, as cited above, 'a bunch of insolent children.' who need to 'grow up.' I think Palm users have a right to be angry.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
JonathanChoo @ 10/8/2004 9:15:36 AM #
The issue of WiFi is one that I do not care nor some people. Some people want it some don't see the point in it (me being the one who thinks WiFi is a dud). palmOne created a PDA without WiFi - if people want WiFi then don't buy it. Its simple as that. There is no point being angry with palmOne - because palmOne has never promised us the successor to the T3 would have WiFi. palmOne did said that PDAs with WiFi are in the works - it just was never in their mind to fit WiFi to the T5. Wait for that then.

On battery life. That is up to people as well. If people did not like T3's battery life, then they should have returned the device and got something else. They could have gotten the TH55, the UX50, a Pocket PC etc. You stated that palmOne should refresh the T3 with better battery. Well what do they call it then? A T5? And won't you think the same people who are complaining here would be complaining then about the lack of major improvements?

I do not think palmOne is slacking off because Sony has left the PDA (outside Japan) market. They see the mobile phone business as their main source of income and their only way to survival. Hence they are probably channeling all their resources towards the smartphone R&D department. palmOne is not a big company like HP, Dell or Sony where they have many source of income from other departments. You have to remember palmOne needs to make money from selling PDAs to stay alive - Dell certaintly do not - they have their useless PCs that sell well.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
JonathanChoo @ 10/8/2004 9:26:15 AM #
>> I think Palm users have a right to be angry.

palm T3 users have the right to be angry if palmone promised an OS6 upgrade and then backtracked on that. Some palm users have the right to be angry with palm for digitizer problems. Yes.

But why should users be angry about a palmone product (T5) when they have not buy it or use it?

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
Strider_mt2k @ 10/8/2004 10:04:09 AM #
I think it's because we keep expecting more from them and they fall short of our expectations.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
mikecane @ 10/8/2004 10:21:05 AM #
Amen to that! It's like seeing your kids report card -- and the grades are lower than expected. So much promise, so little progress!

palmOne: We live up to your disappointments!

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
PALMNUTZ @ 10/8/2004 6:27:51 PM #
I appreciate all the valid comments. It is indeed disappointing that Palm's new T5 did not live up to expectations. But the OS is, of course, still better than the PPC's. And that is not a small thing. Let us hope the next real Tungsten has all the advantageous features of the T3, plus the durable memory (or more) of the T5, integrated WIFI, a stronger battery, a faster processor and multi-tasking. If it doesn't, most of us just won't buy new Palms. But I think most of us agree we only love Palms for what they do for us. We don't love an intangible company or idea. It will not be long before some company will develop and market a new handheld with a better OS & hardware that better help us accomplish our work objectives and satisfy our appetite for entertainment and information. The relentless advance of technology and market demands guarantee it. And if that next handheld is not a Palm, then so be it. We can't continue to support Palm if they continue to be too greedy and stingy and why should we?

Crayola Crayons>>Bic Pen>>Sharp 256KB Organizer>>Visor Deluxe>>Visor Prism>>Palm 505>>Tungsten T1(stolen, sigh!)>>Zire 71>>Tungsten T3>>?

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/8/2004 11:37:28 PM #
And you're not willing to give this David of a company even 1 more year to come out with a new product to rival the performance of Microsoft's Goliath PPC? Shame on you. Grow up, for gosh sakes. You sound like a bunch of insolent children.

OK, Mommy. We will.

On second thought, we won't. We'll continue to complain about Palm's shoddy quality control and (perceived) questionable product strategy. This is Palminfocenter, and most people posting here are actually some of Palm's biggest boosters. Many of us have even been personally responsible for bringing Palm a significant number of new users over the years.

Palm took a great OS, a huge advantage in program library and a several year head start over WinCE/PPC and sat on it. For years. And despite this, they're STILL a better OS. But when was the last well made hardware we saw from Palm? The IIIx? The Vx? Superior OS + inferior/low value hardware = recipe for disaster. Even fanboys will give up on the OS if the hardware is total c r a p. Palm might have been doomed to lose out to "Wild" Bill Gates eventually, but why do they continue trying to make it easy for him to beat them? While Palm hasn't yet been "Netscaped", they seem to be following Apple's script religiously, barrelling towards relegation into "fringe player" OS status.

If they're going to scale back on development costs, Palm should just concentrate on the basics: put out 2 or 3 PDA models and 2 smartphones, load up on high quality parts and offer value. (Imagine a Tungsten E made with Sony quality, selling for $199.)

As of late 2004, a $400 Palm needs to have:

1) Impeccable constuction and reliability. Pick up a Palm V, IIIx, either Tapwave or any CLIE and then compare these to a Tungsten E or Zire 72. Palm should be embarassed. Reminds me of Chrysler in the 1980s...

2) Integrated Bluetooth/Wi-Fi/IR. $400 should buy choice.

3) A great screen.

4) Metal (magnesium alloy) case. Or at least a REALLY high quality plastic one.

5) Decent software bundle (Microsoft Word + Excel compatible apps, JAVA/SSL capable browser, attachment capable email app and MP3 app are probably all that absolutely NEEDS to be included beyond the PIM apps.)

6) Impeccable constuction and reliability.

7) Impeccable constuction and reliability.

8) Impeccable constuction and reliability.

9) Impeccable constuction and reliability.

10) Impeccable constuction and reliability.

Dual expansion slots and OLED screen would be nice bonuses, but not mandatory at this price point. Why Palm would cripple a device as important to their survival as the upcoming Treo with limited memory is truly bizarre. It's almost as if there's a mole from Microsoft* working on the inside at Palm, sabotaging every device Palm has put out over the past 4 years. The Tungsten T series and the Treo 600 were great designs that deserved better construction quality than they got.

*The Microsoft MoleMan Theory could explain a lot of things, though...

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

lack of quality
JShoo @ 10/9/2004 9:31:09 AM #
Speaking of quality, bug reports are already surfacing about the T5. One bug causes the calendar and third part apps using that database to lock up when using a non-default view. Also features like vibrating alarm and voice record are listed in documentation even though the device doesn't have them. Another shoddy job.
RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
mikecane @ 10/9/2004 1:02:24 PM #
1) Impeccable constuction and reliability. ... et al.

Jaysus. How could you leave CLASSIC GRAFFITI off the list?!

Was this T5 released because the REAL T5 wasn't ready?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/9/2004 1:27:43 PM #
Where did you hear that the T5 documentation talks about voice recorder and vibrating alarm? Does it show specific diagrams of the current T5 showing these features or does it look like just a lazy Cut and Paste job lifted from the T3 manual?

It appears that the "T5" is really just the T|E² with a clever name. If Palm had to wait until PalmOS 6 bugs were fixed (in the form of the new 6.1 release - or more correctly release candidate!) then it makes sense that they would delay the real T5 until they could include the new OS. But to play games with naming in order to try and gouge the Palm faithful smells like pure, cynical corporate greed. Charge steak prices for hamburger by simply calling it "steak". Whoever came up with this idea at Palm deserves a bucket full of stock options if it works. On the other hand, the negative backlash might just destroy Palm... What a bold gamble!

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
Gekko @ 10/9/2004 1:37:47 PM #


palmOne's Tungsten T5 is confused. While there is no vibrating alarm, it seems there were plans for one at some point. In the sounds help documentation on the T5, it specifically mentions a vibrating alarm. We don't know why palmOne decided to pull this feature, but it was either last minute or poor proofing of the software.

The funny thing is, the icon that shows when you select silent is a little T5 with vibrations emanating from it. palmOne is already coming under fire for not including WiFi and now the T5 is even conflicted about whether or not it has a voice recorder. It's official, it does not, no matter what the software says. I imagine a software update will be needed, because in my unit, even with silent selected, the clock program's alarms were audible.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/9/2004 1:48:01 PM #
Jaysus. How could you leave CLASSIC GRAFFITI off the list?!

I agree with you 100% that the original Graffiti is a lot better than Graffiti 2, but that may be partly because I've used Graffiti 1 for 6 or 7 years. For people that have never used G1, they probably won't care since they won't know what they're missing. I'm not sure if the Xerox case is completely dead, so if there's even the slightest chance of an appeal, Palm's laywers would have (correctly) advised them to keep G1 off any new models.

In any event, I find I can type fairly quickly with the CLIE UX50 keyboard, so I don't miss it as much these days. (I tried loading the G1 libraries onto the UX50 but that didn't work. TealScript seemed to cause some conflicts as well, so I deleted it and have finally given up on Graffiti.) The new Treo is the only other PDA I would consider getting - but only if it's built a LOT BETTER than my old Treo 600 - and with its keyboard, Graffiti is once again not necessary.

Face it Mike, like the bluesmen say: G1 done lef' us and it ain't comin' back. By the way, does your Tungsten E not feel like an absolute piece of JUNK compared to your old CLIE? Be honest now - we all know how diplomatic you can be. I'm really surprised you didn't buy a TH55. Given the choice between a Tungsten E and even my ancient S300, I'd go with the S300 if I didn't need Bluetooth. Get a TH55 before all the new ones are gone, Mike. With Sony out of the PDA business, this may be your last chance to buy a well built Palm OS PDA. Ever. I've hoarded a few UX50 and will be using these for at least the next five years.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/9/2004 3:32:41 PM #
Based on that article, it seems the references to vibrating alarm are on the T5 because someone at Palm was so lazy/rushed that they simply copied the info that's on the T3 and put it on the T5.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
Gekko @ 10/9/2004 4:05:25 PM #
>"Based on that article, it seems the references to vibrating alarm are on the T5 because someone at Palm was so lazy/rushed that they simply copied the info that's on the T3 and put it on the T5."

Thanks for stating the obvious.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
mikecane @ 10/9/2004 4:19:12 PM #
>>>By the way, does your Tungsten E not feel like an absolute piece of JUNK compared to your old CLIE?

It kicks the S320's ass.

And Pocket PC's too.

To my special friend, Geeko
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/9/2004 4:43:18 PM #
Thanks for stating the obvious.

You're welcome, Sweetie. People tend to do that for your benefit.

It's nice to see that Palm just cut corners in the software rather than removing useful hardware like the silent alarm from the T5 at the last minute. Makes that $400 price seem much more palatable now. If they're willing to sell the T5 without a screen or a stylus I'd be willing to pay $800.

Just noticed you seem to be on an anti-Palm crusade in the Palm fanboy sites, Geeko. Still working for Billy "The Kid" Gates?

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

The hideous T|E: when you just can't afford anything better.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/9/2004 5:45:31 PM #
It kicks the S320's ass.

And Pocket PC's too.

Do Jeff and Donna have a gun to your head, Mike? Just type the secret "emergency" word and I'll let the police know you're in danger.

The Tungsten E is such a cheapa$$ piece of sh!te I feel sorry for anyone that's stuck using one. These things will NOT hold up to heavy use. I'd be surprised to see any of them still working after more than a year. Don't say you weren't warned.

Despite its (many) flaws, the TH55 absolutely CRUSHES every PDA out there besides the sacred UX50. (Every day, I'm reminded what an incredible stroke of genius the UX50 is. It's unfortunate that you were deemed unworthy to be in the presence of its brilliance.)

Vaya con leche, amigo. Vaya con leche.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
mikecane @ 10/10/2004 3:48:52 PM #
Well, we'll see how long the TE holds up. I can't stand the damned digitizer, I'll tell you that. I have to press hard to get better recognition, whereas on the S320, it was a breeze (anda joy, not a travail). This alone might shorten its life.

Other than that, it is great.

Why we are upset
borgiaX @ 10/11/2004 12:59:37 AM #
People are upset and rightly so.
The Tungsten TE2 is overpriced for what it has to offer. Many of the people who are upset at Palm were in the market for a new handheld or were ready to buy something cool for the holidays. If they want a PDA that gives clear benefits over the T3 or the Zire72 they will have to wait, perhaps until 2nd Quarter of next year. Who amongst us is willing to be that patient?
Its true that we all dont agree on what features our perfect PDA would have, but we had hoped that PalmOne, using the software of Palmsource could see their way to developing a handheld that has a good screen,good battery life and decent memory.

Flagrans Veritatis Studio

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
JonathanChoo @ 10/11/2004 4:37:06 AM #
good screen? check
good battery life? check
good memory? check

What do you want?

Tungsten E: good value or piece of junk? You decide.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/11/2004 1:19:08 PM #
Well, we'll see how long the TE holds up. I can't stand the damned digitizer, I'll tell you that. I have to press hard to get better recognition, whereas on the S320, it was a breeze (anda joy, not a travail). This alone might shorten its life.

Other than that, it is great.

It's great??????

What about the:

1) Poor battery life?
2) Über-cheap, horrible, c r a p p y case? How many scrathes on your Tungsten E after a few weeks, Mike? Probably a LOT less than you had on your S320 after a few years.
3) Buzzing screen?
4) Absent cradle?
5) Absent "universal" connector?
6) Poor Graffiti recognition? (Looks like you and several others are victims of Palm saving 50 cents by using a cheaper digitizer.)
7) 3 month warranty? $125 flat rate charge for repairs? (Very clever, Palm...)

We'll be hearing a LOT about STEDS* in the months to come.

*Sudden Tungsten E Death Syndrome

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Tungsten E: good value or piece of junk? You decide. (EDIT)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/11/2004 1:19:08 PM #
Well, we'll see how long the TE holds up. I can't stand the damned digitizer, I'll tell you that. I have to press hard to get better recognition, whereas on the S320, it was a breeze (anda joy, not a travail). This alone might shorten its life.

Other than that, it is great.

It's great??????

What about the:

1) Poor battery life?
2) Über-cheap, horrible, c r a p p y case? How many scrathes on your Tungsten E after a few weeks, Mike? Probably a LOT more than you had on your S320 after a few years.
3) Buzzing screen?
4) Absent cradle?
5) Absent "universal" connector?
6) Poor Graffiti recognition? (Looks like you and several others are victims of Palm saving 50 cents by using a cheaper digitizer.)
7) 3 month warranty? $125 flat rate charge for repairs? (Very clever, Palm...)

We'll be hearing a LOT about STEDS* in the months to come.

*Sudden Tungsten E Death Syndrome

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Palm 5 pre-flight checklist: This baby won't fly.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/11/2004 2:52:53 PM #
good screen? check
good battery life? check
good memory? check

What do you want?

How about:

1) Wi-Fi? Nope.
2) Metal case? Nope.
3) Good price? Nope.
4) Quality construction? Nope. (Safe to assume, since the T5 is really just a repackaged Tungsten E.)
5) Voice recorder? Nope.
6) PalmOS 6? Nope.
7) Dual expansion slots? Nope.
8) "Universal" connector? Nope. (Instead let's create yet ANOTHER "standard". Is there any reason they can't just use a mini USB plug? Am I the only one that is sick of proprietary "standards" that seem to change with the phases of the moon?)
9) External battery charging indicator light? Nope.
10 USB host capability? Nope.
11) User-replaceable battery? Nope.
12) Decent speakers? Nope.
13) Cradle included? Nope.
14) Integrated camera? Nope.
15) OLED screen? Nope.

If the T5 was a plane it would be grounded until extensive "repairs" were made!

And despite a bigger battery, until I see formal REAL WORLD tests that show significantly improved battery life, I'll remain skeptical. On the other hand, if the T5 can top the CLIE TH55 in terms of battery life, this may ultimately be the only feature that justifies the T5's lame-a$$ed existence.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
mikecane @ 10/11/2004 4:21:21 PM #
Geez, get off it. Yes, battery stinks -- but that's one price for color and speed. What, I should get a pokey TH55? keep your UX and enjoy. Especially that idiotic stylus...

A prediction. FOR Mike Cane. From the Oracle.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/11/2004 4:46:36 PM #
Geez, get off it. Yes, battery stinks -- but that's one price for color and speed. What, I should get a pokey TH55? keep your UX and enjoy. Especially that idiotic stylus...

Mike, I predict that by the end of the year you'll have realized just how bad the Tungsten E truly is. It will be interesting to hear you change your tune about this model when STEDS* strikes in the middle of the night.

"Pokey" TH55? What are you doing that requires more speed? Animating cartoons for Pixar? PDAs are quickly reaching the point that desktops did a few years ago, where processor speeds became much greater than 99.9% of users had a need for. For the apps I use, anything over 200 MHz is probably overkill. I haven't noticed any speed problems with my UX50s or the TH55s I've used.

Your obsession with the CLIE Toothpick™ styli is hilarious. I haven't used the stylus in several months. The UX50's keyboard is a better way to enter text than Graffiti (especially the ultra-lame Graffiti 2) and for everything else a tap with a finger or a ballpoint pen cap is much more convenient than any stylus. I'm planning to put my stylus into the toothpick slot on my Swiss Army Knife, so it actually WILL serve a function.

You know you want the TH55, Mike. Get one before it's too late and you end up having to repair your Rin Tin Tinny Tungsten E every four months (out of warranty).

The Oracle has spoken.

*Sudden Tungsten E Death Syndrome

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
endtransmit @ 10/11/2004 6:20:46 PM #
My two cents -

I'm in the camp that agrees that functionally this is more of a TE2 than a T5. Most of our complaints seem to be about price, at heart - if Palm had released this as a TE refresh people would be less likely to complain (okay, they'd still complain - they'd complain that the T5 wasn't out yet).

My personal complaints are that there are still no machines running OS6 and that OS5, while capable and still being "upgraded" in terms of hardware support and UI, is getting a bit long in the tooth and it's time for a change. I was heartened to hear a year ago that Cobalt would be the first time they brought out the "big guns" and gave the Be, Inc. developers and IP its chance to show its stuff. I'm sad to see that it's still not available, but this sadness existed before they released another Palm that didn't live up to the promise. I hoped but had no expectation that the next Palm would all of a sudden have *everything* I wanted.

On Wi-Fi: Why are people acting as if this is an all-or-nothing proposition? Some say "We must have dual wireless"; others say "Wi-Fi is not necessary for me and I don't want to buy it if I don't need it". Why doesn't Palm take the simple route and make their machines in multiple configurations, either user-customizable or in a few different factory configurations such as the T5-a without Wi-Fi, the T5-b with Wi-Fi, etc? Is it difficult to just leave the internal Wi-Fi out of a model and thereby decrease its price, while leaving the rest of the PDA the same? This is something that Dell has done with its X30s (available with and without Wi-Fi at different price points). It boggles my mind that it has to be all or nothing, that they must force users to choose between devices that consistently lack some of their key features ("I want a camera but I want Wi-Fi but i don't want Bluetooth...").

Further on Wi-Fi: P1's Wi-Fi "solution" seems shady to me, that users can buy Wi-Fi if they need it with an optional SD card. First off as has been pointed out many times on these forums, one does that at the expense of one's SD card slot. Secondly, many (myself included) see this is profiteering, to refuse to include a demanded feature but to offer it as a rather expensive add-on. Multiple configurations on new devices as I mentioned above would solve this problem, and if one device sells much more than the other, they simply produce less of the slow seller and scale product to fit demand.

I feel as if the PalmOne/PalmSource split is where all this shakiness started. Anyone feel that the company (as it used to be, hardware + software divisions in one roof) is at odds with itself after the split?

Food for thought,

RE: Grow up for gosh sakes! Give Palm a chance Why so impatient?
lamp @ 10/11/2004 7:58:25 PM #
>>I'm in the camp that agrees that functionally this is more of a TE2 than a T5.

Lloyd Benson to the T5: "I've met the Tungsten, and you are no Tungsten" :-P

Yes, I agree, this is the heart of the frustration expressed here at PalmInfocenter. In my blog, I try to fathom this marketing strategy:

>>why doesn't Palm take the simple route and make their machines in multiple configurations,...

Probably too expensive to do right now. This would also limit Palm to some base shell and produce uninspiring designs. I know, I know, the T5/TE2 isn't particularly inspiring. But there have been some nice ones in the past: T3, M505/515, Palm V, even the Palm III in its day.

Mace on Apple

Gekko @ 10/9/2004 2:37:53 PM #

This is an old article but very interesting when juxtaposed with the T5 debacle and the "Missing/Killed In Action" Cobalt. It's ironic that many of these "Keystone Kops" that Mike worked with at Apple are now at Palm!

Ex-Apple employee says company a 'failure'
News Story by Dennis Sellers, MacCentral

SEPTEMBER 15, 2003 (MACCENTRAL) - Michael Mace, once a marketing director at Apple, says that overall, Apple Computer Inc. has been a "massive failure." Instead of changing the world from "bad computer design and stifling corporate dictates," Apple today is "the eccentric elderly uncle of the computer industry -- still interesting, still beloved, but no longer truly powerful," he writes in an open letter to the Apple Computer History Weblog.

"Although we successfully forced personal computing to move to the graphical interface, since then fundamental innovation in personal computing has ground to a stop," Mace wrote. "The operating system most computers users work with every day is stuck in 1993, with very little fundamental improvement in the last decade. The applications on users' desktops, bloated beasts like Word and PowerPoint, haven't substantially improved in years."

There's no effective competition because Apple failed, and it failed because the tale of the company's employees from the late 1980s to the late 1990s, himself included, is one of "individual brilliance and group stupidity," he said.

"Never in my career have I worked with brighter, more interesting, more capable people. Probably I never will again," Mace wrote. "And yet, despite all our braininess, as a team we were the Keystone Kops of computing. For every innovation we brought to market, a dozen great ideas were strangled in the labs. Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent on massive projects that yielded exactly nothing. Remember Taligent? Kaleida? Jaguar (not the Mac OS X version, but an early effort to move Apple to RISC-based computing)? OpenDoc? The list is almost endless.,10801,84942,00.html

T5's Competition

Gekko @ 10/9/2004 10:21:56 PM #
RE: T5's Competition
svrontis @ 10/10/2004 4:50:52 AM #
Pictures like this always remind me how much the PDA industry owes Palm/p1. Everything about this picture just says - 'look at me, I'm as good as a palmpilot'.

The sad truth is that companies like Dell copy Palm/p1 products, yet they claim to be innovative because they add some 'bells and whistles' (some of which are of questionable utility for many users). Dell and others follow the trail blazed by Palm/p1, yet Palm/p1 is accused of not being innovative. Isn't this ironic?

Immitation really is the sincerest form of flattery.

RE: T5's Competition
serpico @ 10/10/2004 10:32:35 AM #
I'm not here to stir any trouble, just to give my 2 cents and experience with PDA's.

I've used Palmpilots since the first one came out and swore by them. I did use a Phillips Nino 300 for 3 months and hated it. I went back to Palm and my last model was the Tungsten|E. I loved it but had many issues with it on my PC as well as my Mac. I won't go into detail here, but I did sell it b/c it came to the point I could not rely on it. Palm Desktop software on both systems did not backup any data, so I was stuck without a backup. PalmOne was not able to resolve it either, so to eBay it went and sold.

I decided to pick up an HP iPaq 4150 and have had it since before summer. I was very pro-Palm and didn't like PocketPC's. But honestly guys, it's a remarkable device and very powerful. The battery is not an issue unless I watch 2 full length movies on it with the screen brightness at max. I would suggest not writing the competition off, and just sitting back waiting for PalmOS6 devices. I'm not a fan of the new HP models, but this new Dell is paving the way using the HP iPaq 4150 look. It will sell and at a good price point. Even their x30 is a great device and price point too.

Just keep an open mind and try something new. There's no point arguing about Palm devices without OS6. Sony left, and I think they would have released a device by the holidays. It's too bad. And yes, I use WiFi and Bluetooth. Having them built-in to a small device, great battery and small form factor is remarkable.

RE: T5's Competition
JShoo @ 10/10/2004 2:03:10 PM #
That screen features VGA, twice the resolution of any Palm, something which hasn't even been rumored to be coming in Palm devices. And it appears like on Tuesday that X50 will be offered for only $100 more than a T5, yet having VGA, bluetooth, WiFi, a removable battery, a 624 MHz processor (50% faster than anything Palm offers), and an external VGA adapter.

Out of all those features PalmOne only offers two, and no Palm has more than one built in. Clearly Dell is not copying Palm. The question is whether P1 will ever copy Dell, or just give up on the high end PDA market.

RE: T5's Competition
JShoo @ 10/10/2004 2:13:34 PM #
And I forgot to add that the competitive product will offer a graphics accelerator chip, something P1 has never done.
RE: T5's Competition
Gekko @ 10/11/2004 8:01:39 PM #
RE: T5's Competition
A9700rO @ 10/12/2004 9:06:46 AM #
Gekko, your link is broken, or has been moved. Fix it up if you can, to avoid people(Like me) pointing that out. =D

Clie-SJ22>>Tungsten | E >>> Clie-NX60>>Zire 72
RE: T5's Competition
JShoo @ 10/12/2004 9:54:24 AM #
The unit he was referring to has now been officially released and can be found by drilling down at It is the Axim X50v. Here is a short cut

RE: T5's Competition
JShoo @ 10/12/2004 9:59:17 AM #
In a perverse way, I see this new Dell unit as being good news for Palm users like me. The fire has now been lit until PalmOne's butt. With a unit this powerful available for only $100 more than a T5, P1 can no longer pretend that they are keeping up with their competition.

P1 needs to either come out with their own state of the art handheld or give up on the high side of the market & cut prices.

RE: T5 - No Competition
svrontis @ 10/12/2004 11:38:43 AM #
Some perspective - Sony used to have some expensive high-end units. Did Sony's efforts get applause in this forum? Yes. Did they make any money? Who knows? But I do know that they ran away from this market (to stop the flow of red ink, I guess).

With this sort of experience as a guide, I would prefer to see p1 making palmpilots which appeal to the mass market, rather than merely trying to impress geeks like us with overpriced bricks crammed full of gee-whiz gimmicks.

The more I read about the T5, the more is see that p1 have pitched this at the average Joe/Jane out there in Corporate America. It's no accident that it looks like a TE on steriods. It's no accident that the marketing focuses on the use of internal memory capacity and file management for taking work home, etc.

Will the average business user reject the T5 because it does not have a WiFi radio? I doubt it (although I accept that others have strong views to the contrary).

I really think that the biggest objection p1 will face relates to the form factor - without having got my mits on one of these babies, my impression is that it is too heavy to pass the 'shirt pocket test'.

Can't wait to see Ryan's review of the T5 ...

RE: T5's Competition
InsGuy @ 10/12/2004 11:49:29 AM #
I find it kind of funny that Dell waited around a week to let everyone get so worked up over the TE2(T5), and then released their new X50. I don't think P1 realizes that most palm users are not as fanatically loyal as MikeCane, and when they see features on the X50, (or even the X30 for that matter), they will reach their own conclusions. Yes, HP also makes a killer pda. My point is that P1's competition is not other palm OS pda makers (Oh yeah, THERE AREN'T ANY!!!!), but PPC. If P1 doesn't wake up and get things together, in a couple years, P1 may end up being a shell of the company it is now, or it may not even be around. THAT would be a real shame, IMHO.

All good things...
RE: T5's Competition
svrontis @ 10/12/2004 12:11:04 PM #
Ah, grasshopper, you are assuming that Dell has a clue.
RE: T5's Competition
JShoo @ 10/12/2004 3:27:29 PM #
Corporate America buys the handhelds that their IT department tells them to, and a lot of the IT people setting those standards are the kinds of people who read this forum and know RAM from ROM. And I think those buyers will see the huge difference in hardware which an extra $100 buys when getting an X50 instead of a T5.

The thing about features is that they are purchase enablers. The more features a device has, the better chance of meeting the requirements and being purchased. Something which is missing only one feature might be rejected. The only theoretical disadvantages to features are cost, size, weight. But in this case $100 is buying a lot more features in the same size package.

Ease of use does mean something. Palm is the best at it and they should keep it up. But how many people who are afraid of computers and so make their purchasing decisions based on ease of use will pass up all the lower priced Palms and buy a T5 for $400?

To me software is a totally separate issue. The question I am focusing on is "How much hardware do I get for my money?" Software can always be added later, but hardware adds are more expensive and difficult, if they are possible at all. If one company provides a lot less hardware for the money sooner or later people will catch on. They can fool some of the people some of the time, but can't fool everyone forever.

Dell X50
rikster @ 10/12/2004 3:47:34 PM #
It's been released at last... have a look at the Brighthand review :-

This is the end of palmOne (hopefully). I was a 6+ years happy palm user, just waiting for the awe inspiring T5. HA !

As soon as these X50 babies turn up in Aus, I'll be buying one.

See ya palmOne !

RE: T5's Competition
InsGuy @ 10/12/2004 3:56:12 PM #
No, I can tell Dell already has a clue - you don't. If P1 had a clue, why are there over 500 posts to this topic alone, with a vast majority of them negative? Why are so many people talking about how nice the X30H already is, and some even saying they like the X50 even better? Why are so many of the comments about Dell products, in the ppc forums nearly always positive? Read the reviews of the X30 or X50, and they are positive. Read them about HP's 47xx series, and they too are positive. NOT like the reviews and comments posted here about the T5.

No, grasshoppers, and clueless fanatics still claiming HP and Dell make inferior products are just the people who continue to allow P1 to make handhelds such as the T5. P1 has already lost a large percentage of marketshare, and with the newer handhelds coming to market for the end of the year rush, P1 will continue to lose more. Read the reviews of the X50

All good things...

RE: T5's Competition
Strider_mt2k @ 10/12/2004 5:26:31 PM #
If I had to choose right now I would take the Dell piece, new OS, new apps, learning curve, and all.

There is nothing in the POS world right now to keep me here if my TH55 should go away for some reason.


RE: T5's Competition
svrontis @ 10/13/2004 9:58:47 AM #
> The only theoretical disadvantages to features are cost, size, weight.

Sounds like some pretty serious disadvantages to me.

Also, while Corporate America buys palmpilots recommended by their IT departments, beancounters rule the IT departments. I dare you to tell a man with a green eyeshade that cost, size and weight are 'theoretical' disadvantages.

Anyway, I sincerely hope you can find a palmpilot which suits all your particular needs. As for me, I think I'll stick with more 'boring' models. Bring on the T5 (or E2, whatever).

Theoretical disadvantages
JShoo @ 10/14/2004 6:28:49 AM #
The reason why they are theoretical disadvantages is because the Palm PDAs aren't smaller, lighter, or less expensive. Palms just have less features in the same size for the same cost.

PalmOne made it sound like adding WiFi to the T5 would have made the device huge. Yet P1 has built WiFi on a tiny SD card, small enough to fit inside the T5 without making it bigger.

PIC T5 Review???

Gekko @ 10/12/2004 5:15:11 PM #

Where's the PIC Review of this PIG?

HINT - Just take the TE review and add 480x320 and "RAMmed" Memory to it and you're done!!!

This ain't rocket science!!!

RE: PIC T5 Review???
InsGuy @ 10/12/2004 5:40:31 PM #
Good one!

BTW, nice seeing you on Aximsite. Just ordered my X50V.

All good things...

RE: PIC T5 Review???
Gekko @ 10/12/2004 6:06:19 PM #

Cut and Paste, baby!!! CUT AND PASTE!!!

Side by side pictures T5 & X50v
rikster @ 10/12/2004 6:32:16 PM #
Check out this review of the X50v :-

It has some great pics showing the X50v is about the same size of the T5.

The X50v includes 640x480, wifi & comes with a cradle - all for $100 more than the T5.
Oh ! - it also has a 200mhz processor advantage over the T5.

RE: PIC T5 Review???
mikecane @ 10/12/2004 7:04:52 PM #
Oh look! They finally gave that bag of sh*t a *real* stylus! How nice of them to catch up to the rest of the world.

RE: PIC T5 Review???
mikecane @ 10/12/2004 7:06:36 PM #
Geeko said: "This ain't rocket science!!!"

You couldn't understand rocket science.

Why Palms are STILL a better choice than PPCs

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/13/2004 1:58:21 AM #
Everyone has different priorities and will act accordingly re: whether or not to jump ship (defect?) to PPC, but for me PalmOS is still by far the better choice.

I think we're seeing a turning point this month, where it's become obvious that Palm just can't compete with PPC manufacturers in terms of features. Palm is betting the farm on smartphones and their higher margins. PDAs have become their #2 priority. Whether or not Palm's gamble pays off, I respect their decision to retreat from the PDA scene. In fact, anyone looking at the numbers would realize that Palm actually had no other option other than to try and reinvent itself as a cellphone maker.

Yes, the new PPC hardware makes Palm's current offerings look like a joke. Palm's pricing for the "T5" is most charitably described as "ambitious". But Palm still beats PPC because:

1) They have the best user interface. Period. All the main things I use a PDA to do are much easier to accomplish on a PalmOS PDA. PDAs are (for me) primarily about fast access to information and PalmOS serves up that info a lot faster and more intuitively than PPC. This isn't to say PPC is hard to learn or unuseable. Far from it. But PalmOS simply works better. It's like the difference between driving a Honda S2000 (Palm) and a Dodge Viper (PPC). I'll take elegance and efficiency (Palm) over unsophisticated brute power (PPC) any day. I'll leave the Viper and PPC to the "Gold Chain Crowd".

2) Application library for PalmOS is massive. True, 90 % of those apps are c r a p and there's a ton of redundancy. But still, there's an app available for PalmOS to accomplish almost anyththing you can think of doing on a PDA. I find it ironic that the PalmOS solutions for portable versions of Microsoft's own Word and Excel apps are SIGNIFICANTLY better than PPC's versions. PalmOS even has a better browser available than PPC's Internet Explorer. Of course, in the past three years, PPC has bridged the gap somewhat, so there are good equivalents available in most of the major software categories. But if you have even slightly obscure interests, PalmOS can't be beat. (Part of the reason is Palm's 8 year legacy, another reason is it's very easy to code Palm apps.)

3) Personal investment. I've spent a fair chunk of money on software over the years. To switch to a new OS just because it come with better hardware seems like cutting of your nose to spite your face. Until PPC hardware offers some killer function that PalmOS devices can't do, switching just doesn't make sense.

4) Inertia. After using an OS for 7 or 8 years, familiarity starts to count for a lot. Learning a new way of doing things doesn't sound very attractive to experienced PalmOS users. I know PalmOS inside out now and have a large collection of apps, tips, tricks, hacks and shortcuts that would be impossible to replicate on PPC. Why even bother to switch?

5) Some things from PalmOS have no PPC versions. Not having a PPC version of DateBk5 available is reason enough for me to stay with PalmOS. But if Billy "The Kid" Gates somehow convinced CESD to dump PalmOS and start coding a version of DateBk for PPC, I might be willing to test the PPC waters again.

6) The "Underdog Factor". Netscape. Apple. IBM. What do these firms have in common? They're still licking their wounds after trying to play hardball with "Wild" Bill Gates. Sometimes it's nice to support an underdog. (But seeing Palm blow MILLIONS on compensation to Palm executives kills a lot of the goodwill the company has earned over the years.)

- After viewing Palm's latest offering, I ended up buying another CLIE (TH55) yesterday as protection against whatever will happen over the next few years. My connection failed to deliver on an English ROM for the VZ90, but I've now hoarded enough CLIEs to last me several years. I will not be buying another PalmOS PDA unless Sony brings their quality and innovation back to North America. (Palm's quality has dropped so far in recent years that I doubt that I'd ever buy another PDA from them - I'll take a close look at the new Treo, though.) Current Palms aleady do everything I will be needing a handheld to do over the next several years and I also don't really need any more software. I'll be heading off to the bomb shelter now to pack away the TH55 and add to my stock of a year's worth of canned peas (with can opener)! Survival is assured - no matter what happens to Palm...


Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Why Palms are STILL a better choice than PPCs
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/14/2004 1:01:42 AM #
One other point: If the T5 ends up being a sales disaster, I hope Palm learns its lesson and doesn't try to gouge customers when the new Treo is released. Palm can't afford to alienate any more early adopters these days.

If you're considering a T5, I'd strongly recommend you take a look at the CLIE TH55 before they are all gone. Yesterday, I bought what was probably the last one in my state and (once you turn off the bizarre CLIE Organizer software), the TH55 is amazing. Seeing full screen videos on its display makes me wish the UX50 had come with the TH55 screen. And the UX50's video recorder app works flawlessly on the TH55. (I wonder why that app was left out...) Too bad NetFront can't be used in landscape orientation. Maybe we'll find out the VZ90 comes with NetFront 3.2 and will support switching to landscape.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

bkk @ 10/26/2004 8:12:08 PM #

Oh, stop bellyaching

medevilenemy @ 10/19/2004 3:31:38 PM #
i really wish all you "power users" would stop complaining. i say "power users" because any user who had any sense of logic would immediately discount PPCs as overgrown, inefficient, overly expensive, yet powerful peices of junk..

Just compare the price of the lowest cost PPC to that of the lowest cost P1 model. you'll see the difference...... or even average the prices of all the models on either side, maybe dell on one side and p1 on the other. You will see that palm devices are, with the exception of sony devices, FAR cheaper than PPC counterparts.

MY OPINION: The T|T5 will be quite a cool and worthwhile device.
WHY? Because a) it has the most memory on any PalmOS device, ever.
B) it has the most innovative memory setup on any PalmOS device, ever.
C) Bluetooth
D) AMAZINGLY cool screen (cool, HVGA - 320*480)

All you guys who are obsessed with WI-FI hear this, in the united states, Wi-Fi HAS NOT become particularly popular, as you guys think. FOR EXAMPLE: The only hotspot within 30 miles of my home in suburban new york is at my local library. WI-FI IS FAR MORE USED IN EUROPE!!!!!!!!! NOT THE USA!!!!! the only thing that's particularly useful for most american users with wi-fi enabled devices is AD-Hoc mode. THAT'S IT!. Bluetooth on the other hand is far more prevailent in the united states. virtualy every new high end, and many new mid level cellphones are bluetooth enabled, as well as other PDAs, computers, laptops, etc. AND THIS IS WITHOUT ACCESSORIES! So, please stop complaining about wi-fi

AS FOR PLASTIC BODY: who really cares. so it's plastic. chances are, so is your television, computer, cell phone, clock radio, etc....

AS FOR THE SUPPOSED BUGGYNESS: a) Chances are (logic suggests) that there will be a os6 upgrade for the T5 (and yes, palm in the past has actually been very good with upgrades.... remember almost every OS3/3.5 device could be upgraded to OS4? The only reason OS4 devices cant be upgraded to OS5 is because of their absolute lack of ARM compatable processors.
C) Look at p1's troubleshooting faq page on the t5.... remember that calender app freezing issue people have been having?... well in a matter of a few weeks, it will probably be a thing of the past, see p1 is working on a patch for it...

Feel free to email me at: to yell at or agree with me on this issue. frankly, any opionion one might have is welcomed. or, respond to this comment post... i'll be glad to continue this at a later date.

The bell tolls for Palm.

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/24/2004 6:45:49 PM #
The T5 is the first ring.

A buggy Treo 650 would be the second.

There might not be a third.

Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: The bell tolls for Palm.
medevilenemy @ 10/25/2004 3:44:53 PM #

Palm is not going anywhere.
PPC is the electronic equivilent of horse manure.

P1 will promptly release patches for any major buggs that are found. Logic suggests that there will probably be a OS6 update for the T5, but probably not for the Treo650 (but who cares, it's a bloody cell phone.)


Now as i said earlier, STOP BELLYACHING! You're giving me a headache (and an urge to change my signature to something very mean).

Drive Mode Win 98

jimboz1 @ 11/23/2004 4:32:57 PM #
Has anyone got it to work yet?
Wher can I get the driver I need?