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Comments on: palmOne Acquires Rights to Palm Brand & Name

palmOne today announced an agreement with PalmSource, Inc. for palmOne to acquire full rights to the brand name Palm. The brand had been co-owned by the two companies since the October 2003 spin-off of PalmSource from Palm, Inc.
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Ohhhh No! The New Logo?

LiveFaith @ 5/24/2005 11:55:45 AM # Q
RE: Ohhhh No! The New Logo?
Patrick @ 5/24/2005 2:24:04 PM # Q
LOL!!!

RE: Ohhhh No! The New Logo?
rcartwright @ 5/24/2005 2:39:27 PM # Q
And you call yourself a man of God and using the symbols of the Beast. For shame!



"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Ohhhh No! The New Logo?
LiveFaith @ 5/24/2005 2:45:12 PM # Q
I saw in the Left Behind Series I think. Must be real!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Ohhhh No! The New Logo?
m130fullbutcontent @ 5/25/2005 11:12:02 AM # Q
Pat,

You're a very, very funny man !

:-)

Reply to this comment

So what will the other licensees do?

Scott R @ 5/24/2005 11:56:06 AM # Q
Will they refer to their devices as PalmSource-powered? Or maybe they just won't bother with the Palm OS at all.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: So what will the other licensees do?
LiveFaith @ 5/24/2005 12:00:20 PM # Q
Looks like they get a 3-4 year period to use it according to UK site. This makes one wonder what exactly it is Palmsource actually has planned? Obviously, the focus has changed or they would not give away their 2nd most valuable asset, the logo.

Oh, the first most valuable is the proprietary clipboard limit.

Are they about to be bought?

The sell of the name to P1 certainly does nothing to assure possible licensees that PSRC & PLMO are truly 2 seperate companies.

Was this what P1 & Sony saw in 2004? P1 obviously hiccupped in 2004 device wise and went thru some changes in direction. Holding incessently to Garnet, while Sony left altogether after rumors of PSRC discontent.



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: So what will the other licensees do? What others???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 9:37:26 PM # Q
Obviously, the focus has changed or they would not give away their 2nd most valuable asset, the logo.

Oh, the first most valuable is the proprietary clipboard limit.

Et tu, Pat? Vicious.

By the way, Palm never really "split". It was all a sham designed to be a last ditch grab for stock millions. And it worked.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: So what will the other licensees do?
Timothy Rapson @ 5/25/2005 9:43:33 AM # Q
"By the way, Palm never really "split". It was all a sham designed to be a last ditch grab for stock millions. And it worked."

I am happy to see that someone gets this. I can't believe anyone bought that whole silly separation deal.

RE: So what will the other licensees do?
Dr Opinion @ 5/25/2005 12:01:03 PM # Q
That's just dumb. I work on Wall St. If what you say was true, the financial analysts that follow tech would have modeled the scenario out, and palmsource's stock would be priced accordingly. In other words, at any given moment the stock price of palmsource represents the considered opinion of hundreds of people far more intelligent and skilled than you. Of course, if you *really* think you're the smartest guy in the room, sell your house, short the stock, and make millions. Otherwise, shut up. :)

"...I looked up "antediluvian", and they had a picture of a Pocket PC." ;)
RE: So what will the other licensees do?
LiveFaith @ 5/25/2005 1:32:07 PM # Q
<>

Pretty simple, eh. Just put your $$$ where your post is. :-)

But, I'm not so sure "Wall Street Consensus" = Truth either. Can you say Boston Chicken & eToys etc, etc, etc, etc. Kinda like Newsweek, CBS & CNN concensus calling the Drudge Report "inaccurate" and unreliable. It may be concensus of the "gods", but it helped not when Bush's N.G. record and the flushed Koran arrived. In rememberance of October 19th, 1987. :-o

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Was Palm's claimed split legit?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/13/2005 3:21:20 PM # Q
RE: So what will the other licensees do?
Timothy Rapson @ 5/25/2005 9:43:33 AM #

"By the way, Palm never really "split". It was all a sham designed to be a last ditch grab for stock millions. And it worked."

I am happy to see that someone gets this. I can't believe anyone bought that whole silly separation deal.

Wow, Timothy. Only two of us are on record for stating the "SPLIT" was really just B*LLSH*T. When this all plays out watch dozens of people step forward and claim they felt the split was bogus all along... I'd be interested to see pundits like Kent Pribbernow, Gekko, Surur, Mike Cane etc GO ON RECORD NOW as to whether or not the reported "split" was genuine.


RE: So what will the other licensees do?
Dr Opinion @ 5/25/2005 12:01:03 PM #

That's just dumb. I work on Wall St. If what you say was true, the financial analysts that follow tech would have modeled the scenario out, and palmsource's stock would be priced accordingly. In other words, at any given moment the stock price of palmsource represents the considered opinion of hundreds of people far more intelligent and skilled than you. Of course, if you *really* think you're the smartest guy in the room, sell your house, short the stock, and make millions. Otherwise, shut up. :)

"...I looked up "antediluvian", and they had a picture of a Pocket PC." ;)

Thanks for the advice, Bubba. You just made me a TON of money! [TVoR counts their money made by shorting 100,000 shares of Palmsource last month...]

By the way, if you think PPC defines "antediluvian", what is PalmOS? From the Cretaceous Period*?


(* To clarify for the Creationists - like Dr Opinion probably is - that would be the last portion of the "Age of Dinosaurs".)

RE: So what will the other licensees do?
LiveFaith @ 5/25/2005 1:32:07 PM #

<>

Pretty simple, eh. Just put your $$$ where your post is. :-)

But, I'm not so sure "Wall Street Consensus" = Truth either. Can you say Boston Chicken & eToys etc, etc, etc, etc. Kinda like Newsweek, CBS & CNN concensus calling the Drudge Report "inaccurate" and unreliable. It may be concensus of the "gods", but it helped not when Bush's N.G. record and the flushed Koran arrived. In rememberance of October 19th, 1987. :-o


Wall Street has shown repeatedly that the Herd Mentality reigns supreme there. While the Palm Sham Split was well orchestrated, it's still pretty obvious that it was all a fake. The great pains Palm took in pointing out that they were "LEGALLY" two "completely seperate companies" was hilarious. I wonder why Palm absolved PalmSource of any potential blame should it lose the lawsuit brought against it by Xerox? Hmmmmmm.....

For those keeping score ay home, almost ALL of TVoR's predictions about Palm over the past 5 years have come true. [TVoR pats themself on the back again.]


TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: So what will the other licensees do?
twrock @ 8/13/2005 8:57:41 PM # Q
[TVoR pats themself on the back again.]
So is that how you do that little number of two posts at the exact same second? I kind thought you were just "opening a new window" and it kept the same time stamp.

Or maybe you are doing the Gollum thing again. Dude, get some help soon.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

Precious
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/14/2005 2:59:50 AM # Q
So is that how you do that little number of two posts at the exact same second? I kind thought you were just "opening a new window" and it kept the same time stamp.

Or maybe you are doing the Gollum thing again. Dude, get some help soon.

What's that, Precious? My Precious twrock.




------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: So what will the other licensees do?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/14/2005 3:01:59 AM # Q
I like twrock. He is Precious.


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Reply to this comment

I predict...

palmhiker @ 5/24/2005 12:31:53 PM # Q
I predict that Apple will buy Palmsource sometime later this year.

Result: iPod phone/PDA combo. Really no other way to grow the iPod/iTunes line, which is Apple's bread and butter these days.

RE: I predict...
archie@PIC @ 5/24/2005 12:54:56 PM # Q
This would be pointless. Apple has too much invested in iSync Services (and that includes the new services now found within iTunes for Windows released 2 weeks ago), Bonjour, iCal, Address Book, content repurposing (ie: HTML, XML, SVG, PDF, Quark and Microsoft Office), existing and newly formed relations, and upcoming remote/tablet hardware.

Their future path has become quite clear.


RE: I predict...
Surur @ 5/24/2005 12:58:02 PM # Q
You mean "I wish Apple would buy Palmsource"

Surur

RE: I predict...
TwinTurbo @ 5/24/2005 2:28:58 PM # Q
Why would Apple buy PalmSource when they could just hire the handful of engineers that are responsible for writing the OS code. Based on the lack of new developments in this area, I'm guessing there are not many of these folks left. Other than that, the rest of the company is basically worthless. They are not even going to own the Palm brand name anymore.

RE: I predict...
ChiA @ 5/24/2005 3:04:22 PM # Q
>>> I predict that Apple will buy Palmsource sometime later this year. <<<

Yea and Bin Laden will become President of the US at the same time!

The only thing Apple could possibly want from PalmSource is its knowledge of an intergrating an OS with cellular radio.

But considering that:
a) Apple still holds onto the Newton PDA OS which it could ressurect any time it wants to. (Part of it appears to be in Inkwell, the handwriting recognition system built into Mac OS X).
b) Apple has collaborated with Motorola to make the iTunes phone, and has collaborated with Motorola for the past twenty years. Therefore Apple can always ask Motorola for cellular help.

...then there is NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING PalmSource has to offer Apple.

RE: I predict...
ChiA @ 5/24/2005 3:21:11 PM # Q
>>> The only thing Apple could possibly want from PalmSource is its knowledge of an intergrating an OS with cellular radio <<<

That shoud read "its knowledge of intergrating an OS with cellular radio"
Forgive my other spelling mistakes too!

RE: I predict...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 10:24:38 PM # Q
palmhiker @ 5/24/2005 12:31:53 PM

I predict that Apple will buy Palmsource sometime later this year.

Result: BeOS FINALLY arrives on Macs as MacOS 11. Yeah. Riiiight.

TwinTurbo @ 5/24/2005 2:28:58 PM

Why would Apple buy PalmSource when they could just hire the handful of engineers that are responsible for writing the OS code. Based on the lack of new developments in this area, I'm guessing there are not many of these folks left. Other than that, the rest of the company is basically worthless. They are not even going to own the Palm brand name anymore.

Did you mean to say engineers (plural)? I think PalmSource is down to one part time engineer maintaining the OS these days. He works one day a week and suppliments his salary by cleaning the PalmSource offices and washing Pépé Gassée's cars...

ChiA @ 5/24/2005 3:04:22 PM

>>> I predict that Apple will buy Palmsource sometime later this year. <<<

Yea and Bin Laden will become President of the US at the same time!

Who do you think is President now?


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: I predict...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 10:24:38 PM # Q
palmhiker @ 5/24/2005 12:31:53 PM

I predict that Apple will buy Palmsource sometime later this year.

Result: BeOS FINALLY arrives on Macs as MacOS 11. Yeah. Riiiight.

TwinTurbo @ 5/24/2005 2:28:58 PM

Why would Apple buy PalmSource when they could just hire the handful of engineers that are responsible for writing the OS code. Based on the lack of new developments in this area, I'm guessing there are not many of these folks left. Other than that, the rest of the company is basically worthless. They are not even going to own the Palm brand name anymore.

Did you mean to say engineers (plural)? I think PalmSource is down to one part time engineer maintaining the OS these days. He works one day a week and suppliments his salary by cleaning the PalmSource offices and washing Pépé Gassée's cars...

ChiA @ 5/24/2005 3:04:22 PM

>>> I predict that Apple will buy Palmsource sometime later this year. <<<

Yea and Bin Laden will become President of the US at the same time!

Who do you think is President now?


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: I predict...
Timothy Rapson @ 5/25/2005 9:49:32 AM # Q
RE"Who do you think is President now?"

President of the US or presidents of Palm? I think that part-time engineer is in line for the Palm jobs. A part-time guy as you describe could handle both jobs better than the two dimwits they have now just "lost." At least it wouldn't cost $10+ million a year.


RE: I predict...
palmhiker @ 5/25/2005 11:07:12 AM # Q
""its knowledge of integrating an OS with cellular radio"
Forgive my other spelling mistakes too!"

This would really be the main reason for Apple being interested. From what I am hearing, Cobalt development is being skewed greatly toward cell phone integration. For a firm like Apple, the path towards an iPod-type integrated device would be easiest by buying the technology - that is, if Cobalt really is anything of value, which remains to be seen.

"what you are saying is you WISH Apple would buy Palmsource..."

No, I am not an Apple fanboy. Anything they do ends up being proprietary and overpriced, but that is just my opinion.


RE: I predict...
ChiA @ 5/25/2005 2:35:20 PM # Q
>>>Anything they do ends up being proprietary<<<

Oh and Microsoft isnt...

Here's where to get Darwin, the foundation to Apple's OS X, an open source project:
http://developer.apple.com/darwin/

Show me the link for Windows source code?

And for your information:
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/

Reply to this comment

How Machiavellian! I LOVE it!!

mikecane @ 5/24/2005 12:50:51 PM # Q
Talk about kicking someone when they are down!!

This is so Machiavellian, I can't wait to read what Gekko has to say! He should understand perfectly what's going on here!!

PalmSource: Start polishing those resumes, baby! You're goin' DOWN! And good riddance!!

Reply to this comment

PSRC Market cap is $150M

Gekko @ 5/24/2005 1:18:21 PM # Q

PSRC Market cap is $150M. How can 55% of the "Palm" name be worth $30M??? Somebody call Eliot Spitzer. Collusion runs rampant between PLMO and PSRC. Shareholders forced to overpay - and they get screwed again.



RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
LiveFaith @ 5/24/2005 1:25:18 PM # Q
And the stock jumps 14% on the news! I'll never understand the markets?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 1:33:11 PM # Q
I think we need a new picture of them lined up at teats...

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
Foo Fighter @ 5/24/2005 1:42:22 PM # Q
It's buyout time, baby! P1 is going to scoop up PS and pay themselves for licensing their own OS. Those cads!

Now where on Earth is that WinMob Treo?

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
LiveFaith @ 5/24/2005 1:49:59 PM # Q
Palmsource Investors Press Room:

Nine (9) press releases today and somebody forgot to mention a transaction which is 1/5th of the companies entire market capitilization. Geesh, there's nothing like investor confidence in those telling you have things are going.

http://www.palmsource.com/press/

2005 May
05/24/05 palmOne Renews Palm OS License from PalmSource
05/24/05 Motricity Selects PalmSource Installer to Power Web and OTA Delivery of Palm OS Applications
05/24/05 Cingular Wireless Joins Palm Powered Mobile World
05/24/05 Smart Global Joins Palm Powered Mobile World
05/24/05 PalmSource Launches Inside Track Program for Developers
05/24/05 PalmSource Launches Geographic Developer Partner Program
05/24/05 PalmSource and Wacom Collaborate to Provide Improved Mobile Interface Technology for Palm OS Licensees
05/24/05 PalmSource Honors Leading Palm OS Developers with Powered Up Awards
05/24/05 PalmSource Mobile Summit & DevCon

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
Gekko @ 5/24/2005 2:01:54 PM # Q
RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
Surur @ 5/24/2005 7:17:07 PM # Q
Well, my nice pic got deleted.

For those interested:

http://surur.sytes.net/suckle.jpg

Surur

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
Gekko @ 5/24/2005 7:18:41 PM # Q

Funny Pic! It should have never been deleted. Thanks for the laugh, Surur.



RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
Surur @ 5/24/2005 7:33:50 PM # Q

Pleased to be of service. Did you notice the little beret and Gaelic flat cap? I wonder who those would be?

Surur

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
Gekko @ 5/24/2005 7:46:29 PM # Q

Two nipples dry and bare now that Bradley and Nagel are gone. Gasse, Colligan, Dubinsky, and Hawkins are still suckling though.

RE: PSRC Market cap is $168M
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 11:35:04 PM # Q
PSRC Market cap is $150M. How can 55% of the "Palm" name be worth $30M??? Somebody call Eliot Spitzer. Collusion runs rampant between PLMO and PSRC. Shareholders forced to overpay - and they get screwed again.

Palm bought 55% of the Palm NAME, not 55% of PalmSource. The IP was not part of the deal (not that PalmSource's IP is worth much these days). I wonder how much all those brilliant Be engineers are worth? Must be at least a million. Or maybe less. I'll give you a buck fifty. Deal?

Yes, PalmSource shareholders are about to get ripped open with NO lube, Mike Cane-style in the next few months. Wait until the next quarterly statement. The Nagel golden parachute will be INSANE!


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
Gekko @ 5/24/2005 11:45:12 PM # Q

reread my original post, genius.

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
LiveFaith @ 5/25/2005 12:09:01 AM # Q
Nagel getting $2.6M severance according to CNet.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Geeko: clean the wax out of your ears
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/25/2005 1:58:31 AM # Q
And the cobwebs out of your head.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
svrontis @ 5/25/2005 11:31:29 PM # Q
> Now where on Earth is that WinMob Treo?

Another one of my conspiracy theories: All the rumours on that device probably came from p1. Picture this - they spread disinformation about it as a negotiating ploy - ie, if they have a veiled threat to jump to another platform, that makes it easier to squeeze PalmSource on the licensing renegotiations. If that's right, now that the license has been settled, we probably won't hear any more about that kind of device. (This is kind of what HP did a few years ago when it was negotiating with M$.) This is all just speculation on my part, of course.

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/25/2005 11:45:18 PM # Q
Guess what? You're wrong. As usual.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
Surur @ 5/26/2005 2:46:09 AM # Q
Homer: dont you ever get tired of always being wrong?
Marge:...sometimes.


Surur

RE: PSRC Market cap is $150M
svrontis @ 5/26/2005 8:32:18 AM # Q
> Guess what? You're wrong. As usual.

All Heed! The Vat of Refuse Speaks! The Earth Trembles!

No seriously, since you are a renowned 'medical professional', of course I must always show proper respect for your opinions.

BTW, how did you get the computer set up in your janitor's closet? Shouldn't you be out pushing a broom or something? Or is that you are getting high sniffing the floor wax again? Remember - Just say NO!

You buffoon.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/26/2005 4:24:17 PM # Q
BTW, how did you get the computer set up in your janitor's closet? Shouldn't you be out pushing a broom or something? Or is that you are getting high sniffing the floor wax again? Remember - Just say NO!

So you think people should be ashamed of working as janitors? Dumba$$.



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™

svrontis: Don't you ever get tired of always being wrong?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/21/2005 4:15:59 PM # Q
> Now where on Earth is that WinMob Treo?

Another one of my conspiracy theories: All the rumours on that device probably came from p1. Picture this - they spread disinformation about it as a negotiating ploy - ie, if they have a veiled threat to jump to another platform, that makes it easier to squeeze PalmSource on the licensing renegotiations. If that's right, now that the license has been settled, we probably won't hear any more about that kind of device. (This is kind of what HP did a few years ago when it was negotiating with M$.) This is all just speculation on my part, of course.




------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Reply to this comment

But PalmOne makes crappy products.

The Voice of Doubt @ 5/24/2005 1:42:18 PM # Q
<<< "The letters P-A-L-M reflect a prized brand with significant customer awareness and earned loyalty," said Ed Colligan, palmOne president and chief executive officer. "Innovation, power, ease of use, and elegance all are attributes of the brand, and we intend to invest to turn what is a strong name today into a household word synonymous with leadership in mobile computing." >>>

But his definition of Palm does not apply to PalmOne products because PalmOne does not have innovation, power, ease of use, and elegance.

It's a shame that the Palm name be dirtied by PalmOne using it.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceded our humanity" - ALBERT EINSTEIN

RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
LiveFaith @ 5/24/2005 1:46:39 PM # Q
// But his definition of Palm does not apply to PalmOne products because PalmOne does not have innovation, power, ease of use, and elegance. //

VD,

Would you please reveal to us who it is who funds your trolling at this site? I'm won't be so forward as to ask what the rate per po$t you receive is. Just the backer please.



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
Gekko @ 5/24/2005 2:30:00 PM # Q

Pat - A vast outside conspiracy is not necessary. The enemy lies within.



But PalmOne makes GREAT enemies!
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 4:01:28 PM # Q
Listen: Palm/palmOne has *made* its own worst enemies -- power users!

It's time to give MY quote a walk again...

To ANYONE at PALM with a BRAIN:

Starting epidemics requires concentrating resources on a few key areas. Connectors, Mavens, and Salesmen are responsible for starting word-of-mouth epidemics, which means. . .your resources ought to be solely concentrated on those three groups. No one else matters. -- Malcolm Gladwell [DoCoMo - Japan's Wireless Tsunami: How One Mobile Telecom Created a New Market and Became a Global Force by John Beck & Mitchell Wade; pg. 34]

DELIGHT THE POWER USERS, ED COLLIGAN!!

32K Memos, 1K Clipboard -- **UNACCEPTABLE**!
Graffiti 2 -- **UNACCEPTABLE**
Decuma Alphabetic NOT working on recent units -- **UNACCEPTABLE**
NO Command Slash icon in the PalmBar -- **UNACCEPTABLE**
No Goto Top/Bottom in Memos -- **UNACCEPTABLE**

Am I getting ANYWHERE within the proximity of your HEAD, Ed Colligan?!!?


RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
Ben S @ 5/24/2005 7:59:39 PM # Q
I love how the observation that "only power-users matter" always comes from POWER USERS. In the real world, 90% of Palm owners don't even load 3rd party software onto their devices, or are even aware of the limitations you describe. Power users don't matter. All that matters is number of units sold, and it doesn't matter if those units are the $99 or the $499 units -- every one of them has the same branding/logo[*], and *THAT'S* all that matters.

[*] or would, if Palm/One/Source could figure out what their damn branding/logo was.

RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
Gekko @ 5/24/2005 8:04:06 PM # Q

hey Ben S -

1. Who's the target market for $500 LifeDrives? Novices?
2. Do you understand the concept of "profit margin"? Do you understand the differential of profit margin in a $99 device vs. a $500 device?

now stop being silly.

PalmOne has some strange buyers at the bottom!
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 8:05:10 PM # Q
Gee, go complain to the guy who said that, quoted in the DoCoMo book. But, duh!, he's probably one of those POWER USERS who had several hundred CONTACTS and could see right away how a **several hundred dollar device** would be better than a damned **paper book** for that ONE task alone. And you can bet he then PRAISED THE HELL out of his purchase and everyone he came in contact with was INFLUENCED and decided to TRY IT FOR THEMSELVES. And then they in turn PRAISED THE HELL OUT OF IT...

Ah, but you don't get it.

Wake up!!

RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
ChiA @ 5/24/2005 8:44:28 PM # Q
>>> Power users don't matter. All that matters is number of units sold, and it doesn't matter if those units are the $99 or the $499 units <<<

I'd rather sell 25 $499 units and make $125 profit per unit than 100 $99 units at $25 per unit. You do the maths. Units sold aren't the only factor in the equation.

If the power user didn't matter then the PalmPilot Professional would still be in production today. It is the power user who wants to do more with his device who drives (or in PalmOne's case should drive) handheld development forward. New capabilities from a handheld will attract new customers and hopefully increase both the company's market share and profit.

Apple lost heap of sales and market share in the early 90s because it made too many low-end Macs nobody wanted and at the same time couldn't make enough high end Macs which the power users wanted.

RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
ChiA @ 5/24/2005 9:11:07 PM # Q
>>>In the real world, 90% of Palm owners don't even load 3rd party software onto their devices, or are even aware of the limitations you describe <<<

If that's the case then Palm devices are doomed because many mobile phones and even the iPod offer the PIM which a Palm without 3rd party apps offers. Why would anyone get a Palm for their calendar/address book when their mobile can do the same?

Besides, what evidence do you have for this 90% figure?

And before you start calling me PocketPC Troll, I've got my Palm besides me full of third party apps.

RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
Captain Hair @ 5/25/2005 2:13:36 AM # Q
Power users are the ones who get the word out about Palm. They're loyal, unpaid, all over the place, and more tha willing to profess why they think Palm is the best choice for somebody's handheld computing needs.
RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
LiveFaith @ 5/25/2005 1:41:40 PM # Q
Cap,

You're right! They should be paying us to use the LifeDrive! Power Users Unite!!!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
Foo Fighter @ 5/29/2005 9:52:57 PM # Q
>> "90% of Palm owners don't even load 3rd party software onto their devices"

Where on earth did you dig up that tired old statistic from 1997? Even Mike Mace doesn't drag that old sack of pototoes around any longer. The last statisitic I heard, from Mace no less, was somewhere around 60% of Palm users DO DOWNLOAD third party software.

Please join the rest of here in the year 2005, Ben S.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: But PalmOne makes crappy products.
Gekko @ 5/29/2005 11:47:19 PM # Q

The only statistic we shoudl watch shoud be market share.

Everything else is B.S.



Reply to this comment

Should have spent the $30M on R&D

Gekko @ 5/24/2005 2:11:36 PM # Q

$30M would have been better spent on R&D. Not a very efficient use of capital for a capital-deficient company putting out sub-par products. What kind of LifeDrive does $30M buy?



RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
LiveFaith @ 5/24/2005 2:47:01 PM # Q
I think they needed that for Nagle's severence pay?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
TwinTurbo @ 5/24/2005 2:47:58 PM # Q
I think $30M is actually a decent price to acquire the full rights to the Palm name. That's basically the only thing of value that PalmSource still had left, and PalmOne only had to pay 18% of the current PSRC market cap to get it. I like this deal for PalmOne. But I still think it won't matter in the long run. Too little too late as usual.

Do I smell Linux?
Masamune @ 5/24/2005 3:07:44 PM # Q
I'm intrigued to know what PalmSource is going to call the product it sells licensees now that it has lost its venerable trademark..

RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
AdamaDBrown @ 5/24/2005 3:26:18 PM # Q
It's not the only thing of value. PSRC still holds all the remaining intellectual property--source code for Palm OS, and all of their projects like Cobalt. If PalmOne wanted to take over the development of POS again, they would need full IP rights to the source code, unless they plan to keep shuffling along with the existing core without really changing anything.

RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
TwinTurbo @ 5/24/2005 4:04:02 PM # Q
AdamaDBrown, in my opinion the "intellectual property" part is the least valuable part of the company. The Palm OS source code is not rocket science and is basically the same recycled stuff from the very beginning. Port it to linux, use MS Mobile, run Symbian...who really cares...

The brand name itself is far more valuable.

RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 4:07:53 PM # Q
>>>I'm intrigued to know what PalmSource is going to call the product it sells licensees now that it has lost its venerable trademark..

FAILix?

RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
LiveFaith @ 5/24/2005 4:17:07 PM # Q
The wait is finally over! It's time for the ...


V V EEEEEEE L DDDDD OOOO SSSSS
V V E L D D O O S S
V V E L D D O O S
V V EEEE L D D O O SSSS
V V E L D D O O S
V V E L D D 0 O S S
V EEEEEEE LLLLLLL DDDDD OOOO SSSSSS

with support for 36K memos and 2K clipboard!

Now we know!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
ChiA @ 5/25/2005 2:52:14 AM # Q
>>> Cobalt. If PalmOne wanted to take over the development of POS again, they would need full IP rights to the source code <<<

Cobalt? Valuable intellectual property? Nearly two years on and not even the loyal PalmOne want to buy a licence to use it in their products, nevermind own it!

RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
Gekko @ 5/25/2005 1:57:03 PM # Q

PSRC CAN NOT *GIVE AWAY* COBALT FOR *FREE*.

I REPEAT - PSRC CAN NOT *GIVE AWAY* COBALT FOR *FREE*.

This musical chairs game of name juggling is dumb.

PLMO and PSRC should focus on producing GREAT PRODUCTS rather than simply SWAPPING EACH OTHER'S SPIT.

RE: Should have spent the $30M on R&D
Gekko @ 5/25/2005 1:58:39 PM # Q

To clarify - NOBODY WANTS COBALT - NOT EVEN FOR FREE!

http://www.businessweek.com/1995/51/b345595.htm

Oh the humanity!!
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 3:41:27 PM # Q
Key line in that BW link:

>>> Getting Copland out is up to Nagel.

Reply to this comment

While we're selling brand names

hgoldner @ 5/24/2005 3:26:16 PM # Q
I wonder what they could get for "U.S. Robotics."

HMG

RE: While we're selling brand names
kevdo @ 5/24/2005 6:38:56 PM # Q
Maybe if palmOne had come up with a better name then they wouldn't have to do this? Or maybe if they'd spelled the name better (Palm One, PalmOne, anything better than a logo that looks like pa1m0ne).

-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion
RE: While we're selling brand names
Gekko @ 5/24/2005 7:09:11 PM # Q

Pretty soon PSRC will be selling everything that's not bolted down.

RE: While we're selling brand names
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 10:45:30 PM # Q
There will be a kissing booth set up in the lobby at PalmSource HQ next week. All your favorite "celebrities" like David Nagel and hackbod will be there. $2/one kiss, $1/two kisses.

I bought Mike Cane a kiss with... Nagel. Congrats, Mikey! Happy Birthday, Old Boy!


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

Reply to this comment

Morale at PSRC?

Gekko @ 5/24/2005 7:10:32 PM # Q

I wonder what the MORALE is like at PSRC right now? How do you attract and retain quality employees in this environment?

"Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3

RE: Morale at PSRC?
mikecane @ 5/24/2005 8:03:17 PM # Q
>>>How do you attract and retain quality employees in this environment?

You don't do Brit tongue-in-cheek well. Especially since you've made it very clear you don't think they have, or have had, or ever will have, QUALITY employees. "Apple rejects," weren't they?

Reply to this comment

Further evidence the original Palm split was a TOTAL sham.

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 9:05:38 PM # Q
When Palm was split into PalmSource and pa1mOne, tens of millions were instantly created through bogus stock generation and removal of loan debts. A classic shell game mixed with a money printing scam.

Everyone with any insight knew PalmSource had ZERO chance of surviving as an independent company. Do the math and you'll see the numbers (Revenues - Costs) would NEVER add up to profitability for PalmSource. It was just a matter of how long before PalmSource went bankrupt and white knight pa1mOne could ride in and "generously" buy the company at a fire sale price. Brilliant. It's already playing out as planned and now pa1mOne has the all-important PALM brand name back. In our Final Act of this tragedy, PalmSource shares drop to pennystock levels and pa1mOne announces a buyout of all the outstanding shares. Probably will come to pass within a year. Expect a series of bad news announcements (PalmLinux snafus, Cobalt failures, poor quarterly statements) creating a frenzy as investors panic and try to dump their stock before it's worthless. [PalmSource will then get delisted, marking the start of the endgame.]

So who won in this situation? Palm execs and anyone who figured out early on what was happening. Colligan et. al. definitely played the cards they had with a lot of flair. These guys are definitely bada$$ executives.

No one believed me when I said the Palm "split" was a sham. Brilliant strategy, and probably not a damn thing the SEC can do about this. PalmSource investors should demand an investigation - they've been fleeced in a VERY slick little scam that was designed to play out over three years.


Impressive alchemy, Colligan: you turned lead into gold... Gordon Gekko would be proud.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Further evidence the original Palm split was a TOTAL sham.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/24/2005 11:23:34 PM # Q
"It's cheaper to marry than to date."

Let's see:

Cost of licensing PalmOS 2007-8-9 = $148.5 million

Value of PalmSource = $75 to 100 million (sorry, but current $168 million cap is B.S.)

The two Palms will be one within three years of their fake "split". (i.e. by 2006)

TVoR Nostradamus, Inc.™




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Further evidence the original Palm split was a TOTAL sham.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/25/2005 7:04:24 AM # Q
This just keeps getting worse by the hour:


http://biz.yahoo.com/e/050525/psrc8-k.html

"The minimum annual royalty commitments for the contract years ending December 3, 2005 and 2006 remain unchanged from the Prior Agreement at $41.0 million and $42.5 million, respectively. The minimum annual royalty commitments under the extended term of the SARSLA for the contract years ending December 3, 2007, 2008 and 2009 are $35 million, $20 million and $10 million, respectively, subject to the Company meeting certain development milestones."

Bend over PalmSource shareholders... Palm's ready to **** you.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™

RE: Further evidence the original Palm split was a TOTAL sham.
TwinTurbo @ 5/25/2005 11:50:08 AM # Q
Voice of Reason, if you are so sure of this massive manipulation by Palm execs, then why don't you short some PSRC shares, buy puts, sell calls, etc. If your predictions come true, you would stand to make a lot of money betting on PSRC shares to tank even further. Then the greedy Palm execs would not be the only ones profiting from this little shell game.

RE: Further evidence the original Palm split was a TOTAL sham.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/11/2005 8:43:19 PM # Q
Wednesday, June 29, 2005.
5:00 pm Eastern Standard Time


The Day of Reckoning is near, My Son. There will soon be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.


http://biz.yahoo.com/cc/2/56792.html

Bold prediction: PalmSource stock price drops by over 25% before end of Summer, 2005. This will happen or my name's not [edited].


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Further evidence the original Palm split was a TOTAL sham.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/13/2005 2:42:21 PM # Q
Act Two in the Palm/PalmSource tragedy has now begun.

Enter, Stage Left: Windows Mobile Treo.

Exit, Stage Right: Cobalt, several developers, David Nagel, Michael Mace, investors, Tapwave, AlphaSmart, Garmin, Lenovo, Kyocera, Sony, 60 PalmSource employees/extras/hangers-on/credibility/trust/revenues.

On Stage: Garnet lying on its deathbed. Windows Mobile Treo approaches, dagger concealed behind its back in left hand, right hand outstretched to greet the moribund Garnet. Rosencrantz, Guildenstern, Colligan, Gassée, various Palm/PalmSource employees in the shadows, looting Garnet's purse.

Something's rotten in the state of Denmark™.

"What! In OUR house?" - PalmSource Executive


A TVoR production. Copyright 2005. All rights reserved.


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Reply to this comment

Confusion, Inefficiency, and Demoralization

Gekko @ 5/24/2005 10:00:34 PM # Q

"Reorganizing can be a wonderful method for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization."



RE: Confusion, Inefficiency, and Demoralization
LiveFaith @ 5/25/2005 12:15:21 AM # Q
For the number of times they have re-orged or been bought/sold since 94', they could have developed the OS to run on laptops, PCs and SErvers, and had hardware on the space shuttle.

Can anyone give us a list of all the Palm re-organizations in only a decade. That would be interesting all in one place. Throw Handspring in there too. After all they promised developers the full commitment to springboard and then ... :-(

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Confusion, Inefficiency, and Demoralization
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/25/2005 2:05:02 AM # Q
This one's pretty accurate:

http://www.jimthompson.net/palmpda/PalmHistory.htm


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™

RE: Confusion, Inefficiency, and Demoralization
LiveFaith @ 5/25/2005 2:02:07 PM # Q
I like that last line in the total history ...

"Palms are getting bigger, slower and more complicated. Converging on Pocket PC's."

... uggggh.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

Check out the 8K just filed by PSRC

SeldomVisitor @ 5/25/2005 6:38:12 AM # Q
It shows that the "$148 million" isn't all NEW money, but a new replacement contract that covers an extended period of time. That is, 2005 and 2006, already covered by the prior contract, are now accompanied by 2007, 2008, and 2009.

And check out the numbers for 2007, 2008, and 2009.

-- http://biz.yahoo.com/e/050525/psrc8-k.html

Gee...not even a cost-of-living increase?

Giggle.

RE: Check out the 8K just filed by PSRC
Surur @ 5/25/2005 7:25:03 AM # Q
PalmSource will receive minimum royalty commitments of $148.5 million and source code license fees in the amount of $3.2 million over the remaining course of the contract as follows. The minimum annual royalty commitments for the contract years ending December 3, 2005 and 2006 remain unchanged from the Prior Agreement at $41.0 million and $42.5 million, respectively. The minimum annual royalty commitments under the extended term of the SARSLA for the contract years ending December 3, 2007, 2008 and 2009 are $35 million, $20 million and $10 million, respectively, subject to the Company meeting certain development milestones.

So
2005 - $41.0 million
2006 - $42.5 million
2007 - $35.0 million
2008 - $20.0 million
2009 - $10.0 million
subject to the PalmSource meeting certain development milestones.

That does not sound like a company with a future.

Surur


RE: Check out the 8K just filed by PSRC
SeldomVisitor @ 5/25/2005 7:34:31 AM # Q
Lol!

I like the way you put it!

HA HA HA!

Reply to this comment

Don't Blame MSFT

Gekko @ 5/25/2005 2:00:02 PM # Q

Don't Blame MSFT for being Successful. When/if PLMO/PSRC fully implode, you can blame the Executives who made poor decisions and blame the Apologists who defended those poor decisions.

DON'T YOU DARE BLAME MSFT!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Don't Blame MSFT
Timothy Rapson @ 5/25/2005 7:04:39 PM # Q
So, if Microsoft didn't have the cash cow to finance their money-losing Windows Mobile OS operation, would PalmOne be broke? With no competition?
Even with all the mistakes Palm has made, they could still be selling $400 M515s now at huge profits.
Or maybe not. There is no way to know for certain whether these mistakes were more to blame or MS pushing them financially was more to blame. No way to know.
The fact that MS has killed so many companies it has targeted before--everyone of them companies that dared to challenge MS's cash cow, DOS/Windows (as the Aubrey did)-- certainly makes a good argument that it is behind the death of Palm now. Not a fact, too complex to prove, but at least a likely possibility.

RE: Don't Blame MSFT
Gekko @ 5/25/2005 7:11:39 PM # Q
>Even with all the mistakes Palm has made, they could still be selling $400 M515s now at huge profits.

And they'd probably still be selling Palm IIIs for $400 - and the customer would be getting screwed. Competition is GOOD for the customer. DELIVER VALUE TO THE CUSTOMER OR DIE.



RE: Don't Blame MSFT
palmpast @ 4/23/2006 8:42:01 AM # Q
Exactly, Palm is floundering because they sat back and did nothing assuming they could just maintain their market share. The initial Pocket PCs were horrible, but Microsoft stuck with it. And even as Windows Mobile started to look good Palm still made mediocre attempts to improve their OS.

After owning Palm devices for years I have now moved to Pocket PC because the software is now much better and I can choose from whom I buy the hardware. I will never again touch anything made by PalmOne after the debacle that was the last device I purchased from them.

RE: Don't Blame MSFT
Simony @ 4/23/2006 7:59:19 PM # Q
Sorry to hear you had problems with the T3. (I didn't much like the T2 either - I switched to the TE asap and it was so good that I never even considered buying the T3.)

While there are several WinCE/PPC/WinMob/whatever manufacturers out there, don't count on them all being around forever.

HP is looking kind of shaky.

Dell may be losing interest too if there is any truth to the rumours buzzing around (although Dell deny them).

As for the smaller players, some of them are fuelled with VC money, which isn't limitless. If they don't do well within a few years, the VCs run out of patience and the money dries up. So if you buy a device from a smaller player, you run the risk of losing support once the warranty expires.

Anyway, there are lot's of choices out there (whether it's WinCE or something else). Good luck in finding the hardware you need.

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their profits.

Reply to this comment
RE: Will the next
Surur @ 5/25/2005 3:22:40 PM # Q
Do you want Nokia to die too!

Thats a lovely device (especially at that price point and screen resolution). Let Nokia be the next Microsoft or IBM!!

Surur

PalmOne may have Sleepless Nights over this Nokia...
ChiA @ 5/25/2005 3:30:04 PM # Q
... when they see the spec:
http://nokia.co.uk/nokia/0,,75322,00.html

- Linux Operating System
- Combined Wifi AND Bluetooth 1.2
- 800 x 480 65,000 touchscreen (yes 800 x 480!)
- 64Mb RAM PLUS 128Mb Flash RAM (64Mb for user)
- slot for RS-MMC Card
- Pdf viewer
- Web Browser
- Supported File Formats
Audio: MP3, Real Audio, MPEG4, AAC, WAV, AMR, MP2
Image: JPEG, GIF, BMP, TIFF, PNG, Animated GIF format, SVG-tiny, ICO
Video: MPEG1, MPEG4, Real Video, H.263, AVI, 3GP
- Size 5.56" x 3.11" x 0.75", weight 230g (OK bigger & heavier than LifeDrive)

but ALL FOR $350!

Mercifully for PalmOne it doesn't appear to have any PIM capability.


"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight – it’s the size of the fight in the dog"
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Will the next
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 3:42:55 PM # Q
I see the PIC "-bug still lives. Paging Ryan!

I hope the Linuxheads can strut their stuff and find a way to get a portable HD working with it.

Microsoft: Be afraid. Be very afraid!

(I'd warn Palm, but they have repeatedly proven they are DEAF!)

RE: Will the next
ChiA @ 5/25/2005 3:50:16 PM # Q
"... when they see the spec:"

Let's try that Nokia link again now it's been through tinyurl!


http://tinyurl.com/bpypq



"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight – it’s the size of the fight in the dog"
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Will the next
SeldomVisitor @ 5/25/2005 3:51:20 PM # Q
It has a USB port. It has Linux.

I believe there exist external USB-based mass storage devices and Linux device drivers for them.

RE: Will the next
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 4:10:40 PM # Q
No PIM? Au contraire. You can bet these beavers are gonna get busy fixing that oversight!

http://www.thekompany.com/home/

They've already ported to that Archos Media Player/PDA!

Nokia 770 tech prOn
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 4:34:38 PM # Q
This looks very nice...

http://tinyurl.com/cd4k7

RE: Will the next
Wollombi @ 5/25/2005 4:51:34 PM # Q
What do you mean no PIM? Look at the software features:

Applications (in 2005 software edition)

* Web Browser
* Flash Player version 6
* Email Client
* Internet Radio
* News Reader
* Media players, Image viewer
* PDF viewer
* File Manager
* Search
* Calculator
* World Clock
* Notes
* Sketch
* Games

Now, the address book in the email client can do your contacts just fine (and be integrated into your email client) if it is done well, and it has calander and notes, just not a "todo list".

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: Will the next
Wollombi @ 5/25/2005 4:55:12 PM # Q
I do hope this thing will also work in portrait mode, however. I want to be able to rotate the screen orientation to my liking/needs of the moment.

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

Nokia 770 tech prOn slideshow
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 4:57:48 PM # Q
RE: Will the next
Wollombi @ 5/25/2005 4:59:49 PM # Q
If this turns out to be all it seems cracked up to be, I'm all over it come Q3.

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

What Makes the Nokia 770 Go
mikecane @ 5/25/2005 5:04:58 PM # Q
http://www.maemo.org/

-- check out the screenshots.

This Nokia is making waves...
ChiA @ 5/25/2005 6:49:40 PM # Q
...and I hope the PalmOne ship is still seaworthy 'cos if it ain't, this baby's gonna sink it!

Here's a quickie review of the Nokia 770:

http://tinyurl.com/92ud2


"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight – it’s the size of the fight in the dog"
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Will the next
Timothy Rapson @ 5/25/2005 7:24:37 PM # Q
Wonder if this Nokia will do phone? Will it have the N-Gage gaming software built in?
Shame about the lack of SD. What in the world are they thinking? It must have cost them more to leave it out. Ah well. Still an amazing development. $350 for a model with an SVGA screen? WM and PalmOne should be ashamed.

RE: Will the next
cbowers @ 5/26/2005 3:02:57 AM # Q
No, but VoIP, which is close enough.

RE: Will the next
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2005 7:14:59 AM # Q
The Nokia says it has Bluetooth and can comm with a bluetooth-enabled phone.

Just as the LifeDrive says IT has bluetooth and can comm with a bluetooth-enabled phone.

That is - vaporware until the software comes along to do so.

Hey!

Which will get it first!? PalmOS LifeDrive or Linux 770!?

Waiting with bated breath...

Nokia 770: The PALM Killer!!
mikecane @ 5/26/2005 2:05:10 PM # Q
Just had a two-hour tour and fondle of that Nokia 770. This thing is GREAT. I'm doing a writeup but don't yet know where it will appear. Also have photos. Man, that thing is SMALLER than I thought. For instance: its height is the same as the width (L->R) of the Tungsten TE!!

Nokia didn't give up after the NGage disaster. And this thing is more advanced and better thought-out than the NGage. Expect Nokia to STICK with this baby and to make it a new global platform.

PalmSource: Go SHOVE your Cobalt!!

RE: Will the next palm be a NOKIA??
Admin @ 2/26/2006 6:29:01 PM # Q
the PIC quote bug has finally been fixed.
Reply to this comment

Palm's October Non-Suprise

mikecane @ 5/25/2005 4:48:49 PM # Q
>>>Interestingly, the company also confirmed it will be releasing new products in October, all of which will be branded Palm rather than PalmOne.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/24/palmone_to_be_palm/

PIC Posts from the Future:

1) What?!!? They've FRAM in the low-end Zire?!!?

2) WHAT?!! They've put FRAM in the high-end Zire?!!?

3) WHAT?? THEY'RE STILL USING G2?!!!?

4) WHAT?!!? NO LifeDrive II?

5) Whatever happened to Cobalt?!!?

6) Who cares? That Nokia 770 Internet Tablet is now on sale!!

RE: Palm's October Non-Suprise
DogBite @ 5/25/2005 8:02:14 PM # Q
When does the Nokia 770 go on sale, theird or fourth qtr.? How much?...price point?
RE: Palm's October Non-Suprise
DogBite @ 5/25/2005 8:04:17 PM # Q
Third? third grade spelling failed me...or I failed it. HaHa
Reply to this comment

Who will buy if no one SELLS?

mikecane @ 5/26/2005 5:49:42 PM # Q
Local Circus City has dismantled their PDA section.

Beast Buy's PDA section consisted of:

1) Zire 72
2) Tungsten E
3) *sign* for a Tungsten TE2
4) hp rx3115

-- that's IT. The rest of the area was given over to MP3 players! Hmmmm... I didn't know there was a 30GB(!!!) Photo iPod for just $349!

So, even if Palm builds some KILLER products -- will it even MATTER if most resellers won't be carrying them -- and no one is flocking to even *see* them? (At CompUSA, I saw *tumbleweeds* in the PDA section!)

J&R is hanging on. I got a big five minutes with the LifeDrive!

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/26/2005 5:57:44 PM # Q

PDA's are being extensively advertised by the mobile phone companies in the UK. They are on display in their catalog's and on their shelves. Maybe thats why PDA's are doing so well in Europe.

Of course we would not ignore the influence of people reading websites... (despite what Rhinosteve et al says)

Surur

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Gekko @ 5/26/2005 6:12:07 PM # Q

it's the exact opposite where i'm at - beast buy stores have no pdas - circus city stores have a few. i bet soon you'll have to buy them online from BOTH if not all stores.

MikeCon - that means you may have to suck it up an apply for a credit card.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Gekko @ 5/26/2005 6:14:33 PM # Q

I remember Bosco predicted a while back that DELL would fail in the pda market because they didn't sell in retail stores. Hmmmmmmmn.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/26/2005 6:29:20 PM # Q

People who want pocketpc's obviously use computers also, and due to ebay and amazon we are getting more and more used to buying things sight unseen.

Of course before we spend the money we rely on reviews. Again, people on this and other Palm websites have discounted the influence of power users, but they are the ones who write the reviews, and people trust a negative review more than a positive review (because so-one would pay for a negative review on an enthusiast web site).

Palm needs to delight their power users, and paying Kirvin wont do the trick.

Surur

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
jkirvin @ 5/27/2005 1:48:49 AM # Q
"and paying Kirvin won't do the trick."

Huh? I wasn't even in this thread! Where did this attack come from?

Shilling for Palm, begging for a job?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/27/2005 2:34:14 AM # Q
"and paying Kirvin won't do the trick."

Huh? I wasn't even in this thread! Where did this attack come from?


Attack? No. People think you're paid by Palm to cheerlead for them because of the bizarre posts you make. You pretend to be oblivious to ALL problems with Palm and repeatedly make weak attempts to rationalize things the company has screwed up on. And when you're shown to be wrong, you simply lie. Basically, you have ZERO credibility as a balanced commentetor, Kirvin.

If you aren't paid for shilling then you must be one of the blindest, dullest Palm zealots on the Net. Or else you're sucking up to Palm, hoping they may eventually hire you. Which is it, Kirvin?



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
jkirvin @ 5/27/2005 1:58:11 PM # Q
"Attack? No. People think you're paid by Palm to cheerlead for them because of the bizarre posts you make. You pretend to be oblivious to ALL problems with Palm and repeatedly make weak attempts to rationalize things the company has screwed up on. And when you're shown to be wrong, you simply lie. Basically, you have ZERO credibility as a balanced commentetor, Kirvin.

If you aren't paid for shilling then you must be one of the blindest, dullest Palm zealots on the Net. Or else you're sucking up to Palm, hoping they may eventually hire you. Which is it, Kirvin?"

Neither. I'm just willing to call it like I see it, and I'm an naturally optimistic person. I refuse to be jaded and cynical, and that goes against the grain here. It's okay.

And I never lie. Nice attempt at character assassination, though. If you can't counter my ideas, you tear down the person. Lovely.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Gekko @ 5/27/2005 3:52:34 PM # Q

kirvin is selectively "optimistic". he's optimistic on only the companies/products that he *wants* to succeed. he purposely blinds himself to reality. my theory is that he is sucking up to palm for a job or some consulting work. unfortunately, the last type of person palm needs is a suck-up/hack/shill/yes-man. and no, he is no "industry expert" - despite the fact that he likes to call himself one.

the reason he's here and came back with his tail between his legs is because this site is the best. it's the most interesting to visit by far. WHY? Because it allows vigorous debate from a diverse group of opinions. the other sites just don't to the same degree. and when you stifle debate and everyone must agree or be censored, it's BORING - and even the die-hard Apologists come running back.



Kirvin, you're hilarious
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/27/2005 4:16:18 PM # Q
Neither. I'm just willing to call it like I see it, and I'm an naturally optimistic person. I refuse to be jaded and cynical, and that goes against the grain here. It's okay.

And I never lie. Nice attempt at character assassination, though. If you can't counter my ideas, you tear down the person. Lovely.

Please stop the BS. Now. There's a big difference between being "naturally optimistic" and being in complete denial. Your refusal to accept reality (as you showed when I destroyed you in our "debate" a few weeks ago) shows you're truly clueless, or you'reangling for a job at Palm or you're a liar. Which is it? I know which it likely is...



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/27/2005 4:23:40 PM # Q
kirvin is selectively "optimistic". he's optimistic on only the companies/products that he *wants* to succeed. he purposely blinds himself to reality. my theory is that he is sucking up to palm for a job or some consulting work. unfortunately, the last type of person palm needs is a suck-up/hack/shill/yes-man. and no, he is no "industry expert" - despite the fact that he likes to call himself one.

Because it allows vigorous debate from a diverse group of opinions. the other sites just don't to the same degree. and when you stifle debate and everyone must agree or be censored, it's BORING - and even the die-hard Apologists come running back.

Its why I'm here.

Surur



RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/27/2005 5:18:34 PM # Q
FYI: A little advice to anyone here who may or may not be panning for a job at PalmOne or Source; they won't hire you. Corporations don't hire enthusiasts or fanboys to do consulting, marketing, etc. They hire firms or skilled professionals. You think P1's human resource director is sitting in his chair right now looking over the names of PIC members or sites from which to choose marketing reps? Anyone who believes that has no clue how business works, which is further evidence of a lack of qualifications.

But if you really believe that hyping or cheerleading a company's products will get you in the door, do carry on. The train from Cluelessville is waiting at the station, ready to take on more passengers.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/27/2005 5:33:04 PM # Q
Ah yes, I loved Jeff's denial of lag existing at all. Yes, folks...all of us reviewers are wrong! All of use...even the New York Times. If Jeff says lag doesn't exist, then by golly it doesn't exist. And this was based on a ridiculously 45-minute "fondle"? Shame on you Jeff! I'm half tempted to flat out call you a liar. As any reviewer that has had one in his/her hands for several days (and performed REAL TESTING) can tell you, lag DOES EXIST. Try loading AvantGo, it takes MORE than six seconds to load. Try loading VersaMail. Try opening large database files. Try open a few large ebooks. No lag? Who are you kidding? Oh wait...that's right...you say that we all have "pre-production" units. Funny, that's not what PalmOne tells me? You know more about their own products than they? Fascinating.



-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
cbowers @ 5/27/2005 5:58:51 PM # Q
"Its why I'm here."

Gotta agree with most of that.


Just think debate will be best when it's more than just the 6 or 7 of us. When the venom climbs into the read zone, not only does the meat of the message tend to get lost, but so does a bunch of the listeners.


RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
rcartwright @ 5/27/2005 6:57:05 PM # Q
Foo,

Assuming you listend to Jeff's podcast on the LD he said, among other things, that HIS experience was with a production unit. Not a review unit. I do not think that he called any of the early reviewers names or anything along the line of whats going on here, just that one should go and check it out before writing it off.

There are a lot of smart people who post here, which is why I come around. But its like panning for gold. It takes a lot of mucking around in the stream to get the nuggets out of the crap in the pan.



"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
rcartwright @ 5/27/2005 7:07:50 PM # Q
For a good example of the problem I stated in my prior post I reread your post where you claim that P1 told you you had a production model rather than a pre-production. Of course if P1 is staffed by idiots, are you sure they are right in what they tell you. I understand that a lot of reviewers noted they had different builds in their units, this indicating at least some folks got different units. Of course, what uould your explaination be that different reviews have given very different lag times?



"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/27/2005 7:18:08 PM # Q
I understand that a lot of reviewers noted they had different builds in their units

Are you sure about that. In the only thread were people actually compared builds, AdamBrown confirmed he had the same build as the production units.

Surur

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
rcartwright @ 5/27/2005 7:47:40 PM # Q
Either isrc, Brighthand or both. It was last weekend, which after the week I have had was an eternity ago. TGIF

I also recall that the question of the the 5gig vs 4gig LD units came up in the same thread, which was one of factors that made me believe Mr. Kirvin on the pre-production units, as P1 could have been testing the two companies for which way they wanted to go.


"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/27/2005 7:57:18 PM # Q

I would have thought these reviewers who had Seagate drives would have reported 5 GB vs 4 GB storage. Those FCC pictures are just a red herring. The build confusion comes from all the different builds being reported by different software on the LD.

Surur


Palm: never hire the fanboys.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/27/2005 10:03:19 PM # Q
I understand that a lot of reviewers noted they had different builds in their units, this indicating at least some folks got different units.

The OS build may be reported as a different number depending on whether it detected by third party software or checked within Palm's own software.

And to those unaware of Kirvin's history, he's (in my opinion) just an average fanboy who just happened to have started blogging about Palm's a few years before this became fashionable. He also appears to have VERY little understanding of PDA hardware, PalmOS or basic business practices. And he wants desperately to work for Palm. But he's the exact opposite of the kind of employee Palm needs these days. The company needs intelligent, pragmatic, open minded employees - not a bunch of useless "yes men/women".

There's a big reason why the Treo design could NEVER have originated with Palm. The same reason why EVERY significant advance the platform has seen in the past 5 years came from companies other than Palm. Unfortunately with HandEra, Sony and Handspring gone, no other licensees are left that can innovate for Palm. How will the wolf survive?


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
svrontis @ 5/28/2005 3:47:14 AM # Q
> And to those unaware of Kirvin's history, he's (in my opinion) just an average fanboy who just happened to have started blogging about Palm's a few years before this became fashionable.

That's not entirely untrue.

He has been running a blog for a number of years now. Interestingly, he jumped to the WinCE/PPC/WinMob/whatever camp for a number of years and wrote many thousands of words in praise of them. Then, about two years ago, he jumped back to p1 products because of continuing frustrations with what M$ was serving up (so he says).

I just saw a thread over at PPC Thoughts forum, in which all the 'usual suspects' were complaining about Kirvan's recent podcast performances. (Our friend, Monsieur Surur (aka SKA) was prominent in his criticisms.) However, looking at some of those posts, one detects a certain 'waivering in the ranks' amongst the M$ crowd. ('Sheep' might be a better noun for them). For a bunch of guys who have convinced themselves about the superiority of the devices they use, they sure do seem to show a lot of interest in the LifeDrive.

Personally, I don't understand all the fuss over this LifeDrive thing. It's just another multi-media brick with 2 too many radios.

Anyway, the PPC-sheep shouldn't be too worried. No doubt HP, Dell and others will get around to copying this LifeDrive thing in a couple of years time.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/28/2005 4:42:50 AM # Q

Is Ska now an acronym for anyone who does not worship Palm? I think you will find my expressed opinions are the same on all sites.

Surur

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/28/2005 9:25:54 AM # Q
My LifeDrive is not a pre-production developer build...it is a production model. There is no Seagate drive in here, it's the same Hitachi drive in any LD. Kirvin was implying that we in the review community are ALL using pre-release models...which is bunk. The read/write/cache latency that nearly every living soul under the sun has noticed DOES exist, contrary to what Mr. Palmy says.It's statements like "The lag that all the reviewers are talking about? It doesn't exist!" that disqualify Jeff as a credible resource. This is underscored further when you take into account the basis for his claims was a brief 45-minute "Fondle report". I would be laughed off the review circuit if I published product reviews based on a few minutes spent at a CompUSA display.

I also question the validity of his "testing". In his podcast he claims to have "kicked the heck out of this thing." I'm sorry, but launching the embedded PIM apps a few times in sequence does not qualify as "testing", more like playing around. Jeff is smarter than that. My guess is he posted a contrarian viewpoint as a form of damage control to help counter any negative publicity LifeDrive may be getting (there's that Palm zealot persona showing through again). Note his comments where he basically tells his audience not to listen to the reviewers...go see a LifeDrive for yourself. Normally I wouldn't be bothered by statements like this, in fact I agree with him. But used in the context of his earlier remarks about flawed reviews, he once again seems to imply that we reviewers are WRONG and not to be trusted.

This isn't the first time Jeff has tried to cast a dark shadow over other web sites or enthusiast figures. In one of his earlier podcasts (number 11 I think) he slanders PIC and calls Ryan's site "less credible" while saying that the site he is associated with (1src) is a "fine web site". Exactly who is he to dispense judgment on what or whom is considered credible?

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

WTF is this?!!?
mikecane @ 5/28/2005 11:22:12 AM # Q
I'm away from the PC for over a day and I see my thread has been hijacked to take shots at Jeff Kirvin?! Talk about envy!!

The outstandingly hilarious line in all of this has to be:

>>>Basically, you have ZERO credibility as a balanced commentetor, Kirvin.

This coming from some smeg-filled twat who won't use his real name and who thinks that Palm devices began and ended with the CLIE.

Of all the names in this thread, if PS *was* going to reach out to hire a power user, it's only *Kirvin* who'd qualify.

You may resume biting at each other's gonads (those very few of you who have them...).

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Gekko @ 5/28/2005 11:41:53 AM # Q

kirvin lampooned as the hack/shill he is -

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=40384



RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
mikecane @ 5/28/2005 12:45:32 PM # Q
The charge is being led by Hansberry, I see. *Hansberry* is credible? Cue the endless Ha-Has ala VoR.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Gekko @ 5/28/2005 1:06:54 PM # Q

Don't shoot the messenger.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
mikecane @ 5/28/2005 1:08:18 PM # Q
Hey, since you're so keen on digging up the past from websites, dig into PPCT and read for yourself Ha-Ha-Hansberry's frothing at the mouth over Palm devices and the OS. And people have said *I* might have rabies? I'll take rabies over his blatant psychosis any day.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
svrontis @ 5/29/2005 1:24:57 AM # Q
Here's another report by some guy who CLAIMS to have used one of those LifeDrive things and who CLAIMS that the harddrive is not a laggy as some others say:

http://www.pdabuzz.com/Home/tabid/54/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/536/ItsaHardLifeDriveLifeDriveReviewDayTwo.aspx

You be the judge.

I'm posting this in the interests of balance only - not to defend the LifeDrive (which is merely a stupid tech-toy).

(Ryan, sorry about the format - had trouble with TinyURL.)

Boycott #2
Gekko @ 5/30/2005 5:14:33 PM # Q
Here we go...AGAIN. This guy is a piece of work.

-----

A Call for Civility

I'd like to put forth a call for civility. As I've mentioned before, most of the attacks on me have come from Palm Infocenter. Ryan's site was once the place to go for Palm news and commentary, but it's fallen on hard times. The site today is overrun by bullies and ideologues that if they can't counter your words will viciously attack the person. The tone of the site has become overwhelmingly hostile and Ryan won't do anything about it.

Ryan makes his living from Palm Infocenter, and I'm sure he believes that the bullies stir controversy, increase readership and thus increase ad revenues. So if you agree with me that PIC has become a hostile shadow of what it once was, do me a favor. Send an email to ryan@palminfocenter.com and let Ryan know that you don't read his site anymore and tell him that the tone of the site, the constant attacks and cynicism, are a large part of why. Maybe if he sees that the bullies are costing him money rather than making him money, he'll do the right thing. For me, I'm boycotting Palm Infocenter until the bullies are banned.

Posted by Jeff Kirvin on 05/30 at 09:29


Boycott
rcartwright @ 5/30/2005 6:37:43 PM # Q
Gekko,

For someone who disses Jeff Kirvin every chance you get, I find it quite funny that you quoted his Web site within almost minutes of his posting you are at PIC yapping about it. Perhaps you have his site bookmarked?

While I disagree with Jeff about tactics, I do agree with his goal. Where I come from we shoot rabid dogs, and PIC has far more than its share of foaming at the mouth animals.



"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Gekko @ 5/30/2005 7:05:16 PM # Q
A "friend" sent me an email alerting me to the nonsense or I would have never seen it.


But thanks anyway for your concern. Now please post something interesting.



RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 12:16:34 AM # Q
Never did I think I would hear myself utter these words about a once respectable tech aficionado, but....Jeff is a liar, lacking any credibility. In his latest attack against those who point out LifeDrive lag, he says, and I quote..."there is no lag, ever, in switching from the day view to the week view in Calendar on the LifeDrive, despite what he says"

Horse dung! It's happened to me several times on my review unit! Hell, just turning off the damn device can take up to two-three seconds. This coming from someone who doesn't even HAVE a bloody LifeDrive to test? And has based his so-called "expert" opinion on a laughable 45-minute "fondle" at a retail PDA counter. What a joke!

Oh wait, I keep forgetting...David Pogue and the rest of us in the review community are supposed have been handed pre-production units filled with rocks and dirt. Sorry Jeff, that dog won't hunt. Both Pogue and I are running PRODUCTION units, confirmed by palmOne no less. So save that BS argument for another apologist entry, which I'm sure you will. As if you would know more about this subject than the tech editor of the New York Times??? What an ego.

I can set the record straight here and now regarding latency. It DOES exist, and often. The only question is..how bad is it? In my experience it's a non issue. In most application environments, latency is expressed in a manageable 1-2 seconds, and almost instant thereafter once the app(s) is cached. But in a large number of apps, particular the larger variety like AvantGo, the aforementioned lag can exceed 6 seconds mentioned by Pogue. In my tests AvantGo sometimes took an astonishing 12 seconds to load. Not all the time, but it did happen. As I mentioned in part one of my review, this is simply the price we have to pay for the luxury of having a 4GB HD under the hood. And any PDA using a built-in HD will suffer the same frustration, as is already the case with the SHARP Linux-powered handheld. Windows Mobile will be no different.

Grow up Jeff, even PalmOne hasn't denied lag exists when I spoke with them on this subject. They put a great deal of effort into minimizing its effect on overall user experience. But it IS there. So stop spreading bull****, and stop contradicting reviews that you frankly aren't qualified to give contention to.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
twrock @ 5/31/2005 1:29:43 AM # Q
Foo: In his latest attack against those who point out LifeDrive lag, he says, and I quote..."there is no lag, ever, in switching from the day view to the week view in Calendar on the LifeDrive, despite what he says" Horse dung! It's happened to me several times on my review unit!

Just to clarify, are you saying that you can reproduce a lag when "switching from the day view to the week view in Calendar on the LifeDrive"? If so, I'd be interested in hearing about the conditions in which this happens. How "global" is the problem? Or are we talking about something that happens only when you first do "XYZ", a sequence that real world users will rarely encounter? What do you mean by "several times"?

I'm not here trying to defend anyone, but after looking at the second part of the PDABuzz review and the resulting "clarification" post by David Pogue, it seems that at least one reviewer played a little fast and loose with his initial comments about the lag time and the conditions in which it was experienced.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 2:07:47 AM # Q
I'll do you one better. I will give you proof in video form of this lag in action. Give me a minute to do some recording. Then you'll get to see LifeDrive latency in action, as well as Kirvin's lies.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 2:10:43 AM # Q
Well to be fair, I think Pogue's 6-second lag claims are an exaggeration and should not be considered typical behavior in most application environments. But as you're about too see that lag can go WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond a mere 6 seconds.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 2:14:33 AM # Q
Alrighty, here we go. First let's start of with a simply launch of AvantGo. Start your timers everyone....

http://www.pocketfactory.com/downloads/lifedrive%20050.avi

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 2:18:16 AM # Q
And here are some more priceless moments of lag in action.

In this first video actually timed out before "month" view came on screen, but you see the amber HD light illuminated which shows that was choking on this simple task.

http://www.pocketfactory.com/downloads/lifedrive%20051.avi

In the second video, you get to see some lag that occurs when jumping from the Calendar app the "home" screen.

http://www.pocketfactory.com/downloads/lifedrive%20052.avi

Once again, everyone needs to keep very close in mind that these are the very same lags that Jeff claims to not exist. Always a shame when the truth gets in the way of a lie, isn't it Jeff?

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 2:43:23 AM # Q
And just to clarify what exactly is producing this lag; what you are seeing is the result of one app pushing another (or everything) out of cache. In this case AvantGo. After you've launched say one of the PIM apps for example, that app gets launched instantly the next time you access it since it now resides in cache. But remember, there is only so much cache space allotted for this. Meaning in some cases LifeDrive does not cache the last few apps, but rather the last few apps that FIT in cache. Normally a few PIMs apps fit quite comfortably. But once you launch AvantGo, it bumps everything else out and makes itself at home...meaning you're right back to square one again. This is something I don't see being mentioned in other reviews or discussions; it's not just a case of caching the most recently used apps but rather the last app(s) that can actually fit in cache.

As I said, under basic operating environments (like just using the PIM for example) you won't encounter such lag time. But once you start loading big iron apps like AvantGo...be prepared to wait in queue.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/31/2005 3:02:16 AM # Q
So would you say user reviews such as this :
http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27519&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=16&sid=4d97132a7551227308d8914953a65d3c

The Lifedrive, on the other hand, just works. I had a couple of unexpected resets at first, mainly due to old software I tried installing, but overall it's faster (to use as a PDA) and more stable than the HP. I'd recommend it for anyone looking for a high end PDA, but didn't consider spending an afternoon chasing down problems "fun" (I do, but I'm weird).

are suffering from cognitive dissonance?

Surur

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
twrock @ 5/31/2005 3:05:47 AM # Q
Ok, thanks for the clarification.

For comparison, I loaded Avantgo on my TT2: eight seconds to load from tapping the Avantgo icon in ZLauncher. I have five channels, only one of which is fairly large (CNET). It appears you have a whole lot more channels than I do, but I can't see how many or how large they are. How quickly does Avantgo load with the same channels in another PalmOS unit? Is the LifeDrive actually slower than older units because of the new memory system? If so, to what percentage? (I'm not necessarily asking you for all the answers, I'm just curious.)

Correct me if I am wrong in hearing you are say that to reproduce the lag time in loading Calendar and in in switching views in Calendar, you have to have loaded Avantgo or some similar app which will completely clear the cache first or have loaded enough apps in the interim to have removed the calendar app from the cache. So if Calendar (or any other app) is still in cache, there is no lag, and the user has the typical snappy performance from his Palm. (Yes, I think I'm stating the obvious, but I just want to hear it plainly, without any couching of terms.)

I find this fascinating since I "only" have 32 mb of RAM on my TT2, and it is quite full with apps and data. How small is the cache on the LD? Do I remember correctly that is is 10 mb? If so, yep, sounds like a really bad call by P1.

And if P1 is reading, you guys are whacked if you think that saving a couple of bucks on RAM is worth the kind of criticism you're getting on this one. You've got this thing priced almost as much as a laptop, fer cryin' out loud! Put some RAM in it already!

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 3:25:18 AM # Q
Sorry, you've lost me. I don't see the connection this user review has to the lag issue? He's talking about stability (i.e. crashes). We're talking about lag. Two different subjects.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Liar Liar.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/31/2005 3:35:16 AM # Q
Jeff is a liar, lacking any credibility.

Yes. It's too bad PalmSource didn't hire this high quality individual...


No doubt Kirvin will claim you faked the videos by slowing down the tapes. Too bad you didn't record with the timer turned on for your camcorder. Then again, he would probably claim you faked that too.

Hey Palm: W T F were you thinking? 64 or 128 MB of RealRAM™ would have only added a couple bucks to the price of the LD. Why did you try to get clever and come up with the BogusRAM™ idea? Why? Why? Why?



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/31/2005 3:36:06 AM # Q
He says overall its faster. Waiting 5 seconds for my calender to come on does not sound faster to me.

Surur

Jeff Kirvin: The classiest man alive.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/31/2005 3:50:51 AM # Q
A Call for Civility

I'd like to put forth a call for civility. As I've mentioned before, most of the attacks on me have come from Palm Infocenter. Ryan's site was once the place to go for Palm news and commentary, but it's fallen on hard times. The site today is overrun by bullies and ideologues that if they can't counter your words will viciously attack the person. The tone of the site has become overwhelmingly hostile and Ryan won't do anything about it.

Ryan makes his living from Palm Infocenter, and I'm sure he believes that the bullies stir controversy, increase readership and thus increase ad revenues. So if you agree with me that PIC has become a hostile shadow of what it once was, do me a favor. Send an email to ryan@palminfocenter.com and let Ryan know that you don't read his site anymore and tell him that the tone of the site, the constant attacks and cynicism, are a large part of why. Maybe if he sees that the bullies are costing him money rather than making him money, he'll do the right thing. For me, I'm boycotting Palm Infocenter until the bullies are banned.

Posted by Jeff Kirvin on 05/30 at 09:29

Priceless.

Thanks for proving to everyone (again) exactly how SLEAZY you are, Kirvin. Yeah - that was me "viciously attacking" you.




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

You don't run from an arguement...
Masamune @ 5/31/2005 6:44:59 AM # Q
It's all very well boycotting a place you don't like because you disagree with someone else there. Oh wait, no it isn't. People have nailed me as being over optimistic at times but I usually try and offer a balanced reason as to why I think this. If you disagree with what someone says then SAY SO! - that's what a forum's for. I respect 90% of the people on here even if I don't particularly like them. For example, I'm not keen on TVoR's Apple bashing or Gekko championing the cause of Microsoft. But TVoR does know his Clie's from a hole in the ground (Where's that VZ90 review go to BTW?) and Gekko has pointed the grim realities of PSRC's fiscal state several times, as well as some great books and albums.

Peace, love and understanding all round, except to the f***heads who royally p*** me off. You know who you are.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
mikecane @ 5/31/2005 10:17:28 AM # Q
First of all: With fekkin *WiFi* in the LD, are people *still* going to use that dinosaur, AvantGo? I don't use it and see no reason to. The point about the cache being flushed by a large app remains, nonetheless, but I expect this. Thank you, p1!

Second: Have you people nothing better to do than to cudgel Jeff? There are far better targets: Colligan, Nagel (not gone yet!), Slotkin, ad nauseum. Jeff knows that I disagree with him about G1 vs G2 and several other points, but you don't see me engaging in strafing missions against him here!

Third: For *some* people, the LD will still be a good choice. Just like the (gag!) T5 is. Wrap your heads around *that*. Even more bizarre: There are freakazoids who like **PPC**!

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 10:19:28 AM # Q
I have blogged the story...

http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2005/05/setting_the_rec.php

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
mikecane @ 5/31/2005 10:24:24 AM # Q
>>Getting POed<<

Foo, I'm still waiting for the completion of your *review*, yet you find time to do these videos?! The point would have been better made -- and come off as less of a vendetta -- had they been part of the review!

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 10:40:46 AM # Q
Oh I'll roll the videos into part two. But I wanted to call out Jeff for his blatant lies, which these videos illustrate.

But as I said, the latency really isn't a big issue. There is definitely some sluggishness at times (extreme in some cases), but not to the point that I would recommend NOT buying a LD,

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
mikecane @ 5/31/2005 11:12:51 AM # Q
>>>But I wanted to call out Jeff for his blatant lies

What "lies"? Jeff's comments are based on a FONDLE, NOT a comprehensive multi-day use of the LD! At most, you can categorize him as being "uninformed." You are crossing the line into Voice Stalker Territory....

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
mikecane @ 5/31/2005 11:16:16 AM # Q
>>>Waiting 5 seconds for my calender to come on does not sound faster to me.

Suror: S T F U! You are a PPC Weenie and the LAST LAST LAST person to lecture ANY platform about "lag." Even that hilariously-overpriced hp hx *still* treats owners to that damned SPINNING WHEEL. And it DOESN'T have FRAM or an HD to excuse that!

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Surur @ 5/31/2005 11:21:28 AM # Q

Mike, always with the excuses. The question wasn't which one lagged, the question was which one was faster for PIM (including lag). Is it Palm's job to introduce excuses such as 64MB HDD RAM to make their devices slower, or to make the right design decisions to make them fast in the first place?

BTW Foo - does browsing a few websites using WIFI also clear the cache (like when using Avantgo) or does it take more than that?

Surur

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
mikecane @ 5/31/2005 11:23:20 AM # Q
>>>and PIC has far more than its share of foaming at the mouth animals.

And damned proud to be the leader of the pack.

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/31/2005 4:06:08 PM # Q
>>>and PIC has far more than its share of foaming at the mouth animals.

And damned proud to be the leader of the pack.

Back off, biotch. I'm the leader of the Rabid Pack.

[watches Cur Cane run off yelping with his mangy tail between his legs...]




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
rcartwright @ 5/31/2005 5:11:33 PM # Q
Mike Cane said:
>>>and PIC has far more than its share of foaming at the mouth animals.

And damned proud to be the leader of the pack.

Mike you don't usually foam at the mouth, nor do you bite till attacked. I don't always agree with you, but you don't go out of your way to be an ass.

Speaking of, VoR as to your claims to be the leader of the pack, while I am sure you know this because I suspect you will claim experience in animal behavior as well, the biggest yelper in the pack is usually the zeta, the bottom of the pack. You do seem to post a lot. I will leave the rest to draw their own conclusions.



"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

Nice Videos, Foo
Gekko @ 5/31/2005 6:34:43 PM # Q

Nice work. I felt like I was watching the Zapruder film. A little shaky hand on the stylus, no? Too much booze the night before? I've had those days.

So it's pretty clear that there's a White Screen of Lag with something as simple as the Calendar app. How will the Apologists spin out of this one?



RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 7:39:24 PM # Q
Hey, you're lucky my hands where that stable. I shot those videos using my digital camera's "video clip" mode which is why they only last less than thirty seconds. Holding the camera in one hand and stylus in the other, while I was looking down at LifeDrive through the tiny LCD viewfinder. Try navigating a PDA screen doing that! It's a wonder I could even hit the right icons. I missed in one of the clips and hit the "Week" view in Calendar by mistake, when I was aiming for the Home button. :-P

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
Gekko @ 5/31/2005 8:00:58 PM # Q

It's really like the Zapruder film. Grainy footage, no sound, you see the set up, your heart's beating - -you know what's coming - and BOOM! THE LAG! The money shot!

RE: Who will buy if no one SELLS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/31/2005 9:58:13 PM # Q
Show a little respect for Kennedy, Geeko. The man was murdered.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Reply to this comment

The Tyranny of the Installed Base

Gekko @ 5/28/2005 11:45:44 AM # Q

I think this post is brilliant -

-----

Felix Torres
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Each serves their own market

You've got it.
Its called the Tyrany of the installed base and its killed more than a few companies/products. (Word Perfect, Lotus, Ashton-tate come to mind...)
(It is also what the article that started it all was alluding to.)
Palm's problem is that they failed to obsolete their product before somebody else did it to them.

From 1995 to 2002 they did virtually nothing to update the platform and instead chose to milk the (large) customer base for all it was worth.

Try this:
- First color PDA? Not Palm
- first arm-based PDA? Not Palm
- first expandable PDA? Not Palm
- First stereo PDA? Not Palm
- first multimedia PDA? Not Palm
- first wi-fi PDA? Not Palm
Whether it be Casio, Compaq, HP, Toshiba, or whoever, Palm hardware has been lagging somebody in the market for over 5 years. And the Palm followers pooh-pooh'ed because Palm had the dominant market share.
Well, any serious analyst can tell you,nobody that lags their competitors that consistently, that long, endures.

All that the large early share and customer devotion did was mask the underlying flaws of the architecture and the product until it was too late.

The way Palm made the Pilot a success was by building it on trailing-edge, dirt cheap technology (1970's-vintage cpu, minimal ram, etc) and tailoring the software to what the hardware allowed (graffitti instead of handwriting recognition, no file system, single threading software environment, tiny apps, no real os). Which is to say, they optimized for the original hardware.

The nature of such optimization is that it is not easily undone.

Palm has been paying for that optimization to this day.
The dirty secret of Palm OS is that the application environment is not an OS at all but an emulator for the old 68k environment.

The Palm platform desperately needs to evolve on the software side; it needs modern APIs that map to modern hardware directly, not through a kludged-up emulator of an architecture that was tired when it was new. Yet it can't because it can't (or won't) let go of the boat anchor of dragonball compatibility.

WinCE doesn't have that problem because Microsoft has slowly migrated the customers and developers from the original CE implementation to the most recent one by gradually obsoleting its own product, bit by bit. Every release breaks a few apps. Every release is incompatible with *some* older hardware. But Never so much that the users or developers go away. The platform stays fresh, the platform evolves, and Microsoft never waits for its enemies to obsolete its product.

On the desktop, MS has shephered its customer base from DOS to Windows 3.x to Win9x to Win2000/xp. That is three generational shifts, all successful.
Palm, on the other hand, is still struggling to complete the transition from single-tasking 68k cpus to multitasking ARM, and has in the process lost the edge in market share it once had so that it now lags in hardware, software, and sales rate.

It still has the loyalty of its existing customers but it is not gaining new ones fast enough to keep up with the competition.
If this keeps up, they will face even bigger problems...

And, like many pepole facing serious real-world problems, the first step is admitting they have a problem.

Proclaiming the superiority of Palm in the face of its past and present failures to adapt does nothing to help PALM and a lot to help its enemies.

So guys, keep whistling past the graveyard if you want to, but that light at the end of the tunnel?
Its a train coming at you...

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=346682&highlight=#346682



RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
mikecane @ 5/28/2005 12:47:07 PM # Q
Tyranny of the installed base -- or tyranny of the Installed EXECUTIVES?!

We are dealing with two groups that cannot shoot straight: Palm and FailSource.

Palm needs to -- and *has* needed to -- start a distinct Advanced Brand, one that is clearly built for an advanced OS such as Cobalt, for *advanced users*. They show no lack of courage in launching the LifeDrive, striking out with a brand totally different than Zire of Tungsten. The mistake here is that this device should have been running COBALT 6.1, *not* Garnet. There would have been enough in Cobalt -- the PIMs, web browser, and *superior* media apps -- to tide buyers over while devs ramped up Cobalt 6.1 apps. They had a hell of an opportunity to move into the future -- and they balked.

As usual.

Now Gekko, you *will* be providing us with plenty of entertaining links when WM5 starts to get into people's hands and that "persistent storage" starts to get a workout, right?

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Gekko @ 5/28/2005 12:57:26 PM # Q

Cobalt 6.0/6.1 was a late, buggy mess. What choice other than FrankenGarnet did palmOne have? WinMob?



RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Gekko @ 5/28/2005 1:05:31 PM # Q
>Now Gekko, you *will* be providing us with plenty of entertaining links when WM5 starts to get into people's hands and that "persistent storage" starts to get a workout, right?

We'll see. It's all in the implemenation. The Devil is in the details.



RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
mikecane @ 5/28/2005 1:10:16 PM # Q
Wait one moment there. I might be able to swallow that 6.0 was a buggy mess -- but *6.1*? I think you are letting those Apple posts confuse you here.

And, really, Garnet on the T5, T650, TE2, and LD is a hallmark of stability? (Would 6.1 have had that Find bug?!!?)

I'd rather have had Cobalt 6.1 on the LD, known PS was getting license $$$ to continue its development, had a Cobalt device *out* there that other potential licensees could see in the real-life marketplace, and have inspired the devs to start spilling out Cobalt apps. Are you saying you *wouldn't* have? You *like* the continued exhumation and zombie-ing of Garnet?

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Gekko @ 5/28/2005 1:24:43 PM # Q

The way I see it, palmOne and the other licensees are the only ones who got a TRUE look/test at Cobalt on *REAL* PDA hardware. *WE* did not. SO I have to go by their ACTIONS and NOT WORDS. And I have to go by Nagel's PAST PERFORMANCE. And that Nagel quit/was FIRED. These are the only pieces of evidence that I have. So if palmOne and every other licensee PASSED on Cobalt, and Nagel has a HISTORY of shipping out BUGGY OSs, and he quit/was FIRED, I can only come to one conclusion. If Cobalt was so great, we'd see it on a device. If it was a DOG, we wouldn't.

ACTIONS are more revealing than WORDS.

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Foo Fighter @ 5/28/2005 6:30:50 PM # Q
If a Mobile platform falls in the forest, and nobody wants to license it...does it make a sound? Cobalt is a stillborn platform, soon to be superseded by PalmOS Linux.

Never in all the years I have followed technology have I seen a more schizophrenic development strategy than PalmSource's. Invest millions on buying software assets (BeOS), spend years developing a "next generation" software platform, and then on the eve of its deployment, you pull the rug out from under it (and developers ) by shifting to a completely different foundation. While most or all of Cobalt's technologies will essentially be rolled up into the Linux variant, you have to wonder if developers will want to stay onboard this erratic nowhere-bound train, heading off a cliff.

God help me, I almost want to see PalmOne (err, I mean Palm) buy up PalmSource and end licensing altogether. We're halfway there now. PalmOS is already essentially a single company platform anyway, save for a handful of irrelevant lesser-knowns like Garmin. Tapwave is finished of course, so scrath yet another licensee.

*sigh* Oh well, there's always Palmix to look forward to. Oh wait, that's right; it's just going to be Cobalt's upper level software running on top of a Linux core. Yawn! Wake me when the revolution starts.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Masamune @ 5/28/2005 6:37:11 PM # Q
I think putting Cobalt on their most high end (and comparatively innovative)device straight off the bat would have been too risky - reviewers would have ripped through it ignored the positive aspects (HD, dual Wireless) if the OS had been a crock. And they'd be right to. If I were in Palm's position, I would initially launch Cobalt on a Zire - the new OS apparently has a better performance with multimedia stuff. Besides, new users are more likely to take a chance with a $200 device than a $500 device. It was also reported that there would be 3 new Palms out later this year - this will be the watermark. If Cobalt doesn't appear on these, it never will.

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Surur @ 5/28/2005 7:07:38 PM # Q

Windows Mobile 5 (the biggest GUI change since pocketpc 2000 plus a lot of undercover work) is launching on the highest end device yet, the 5 x wireless MDA IV. Having had such a long time to work on the OS, (which I assume also means testing it on actual hardware devices) I'm surprised at the low level of confidence in Cobalt.

Surur

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Gekko @ 5/29/2005 8:47:43 AM # Q

"Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3


RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Gekko @ 5/29/2005 8:55:10 AM # Q

"In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone." - Bill Gates



RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
mikecane @ 5/29/2005 6:07:01 PM # Q
Crap! NONE of you have SEEN Cobalt in action on any hardware (NOT running a sim) and Gekko's little "action" speech is nothing but speculation. If Gekko can indulge in his little fantasy that Cobalt is trash, I can dream that Cobalt might have been what the LifeDrive -- and palmOne/Palm -- *needed*.

For all we know, all of these musical chairs can be nothing more than more of Benhamou's "Pull the strings!". Cobalt might have been "ignored" not for any tech reasons, but purely for cheap corporate/financial manipulations. The very kind of low behavior we've seen this bunch engage in for *years* now.

And by the way, in a review of the clamshell Zaurus, there are mentions of some delays when the HD is accessed there too. Not on the 6-8 second level, but so far from what I'm reading about the LD, even these long delays are *rare* and *not* the norm. Foo should be publishing the completion of his review soon. And there's another multi-part review that is still being finished at another site. Once these are published, I'll be paying more attention to *owner* comments.

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Surur @ 5/29/2005 6:52:41 PM # Q

Mike, surely HDD=delays? The surprise would be if there were none.

What is surprising is why Palm decided to put the 64Mb of memory on the HDD, instead of just using 64MB NVFS ROM for example. Why not just add a 4GB drive to the T5, instead of re-engineering the system to be even slower.

Surur

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
mikecane @ 5/29/2005 7:09:00 PM # Q
>>>What is surprising is why Palm decided to put the 64Mb of memory on the HDD, instead of just using 64MB NVFS ROM for example.

Palm works in screwy ways...

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Gekko @ 5/29/2005 11:44:01 PM # Q

The problem with MikeCon is he's getting EMOTIONAL about technology. He *wants* the LD to be his end-all/be-all device. So he's *hoping* that it's all peachy-keen. He blieves what he *wants* to believe.



RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
mikecane @ 5/30/2005 4:03:09 PM # Q
Gekko, stop being a prat (as usual). Did I buy the T5? No. Might I buy the LD? We'll see. There's still lots more to be discovered about it (mainly by others first!).

Hey, Gekko: A COBALT PHONE!
mikecane @ 5/31/2005 11:41:35 AM # Q
A scoop for those guys with the barely-working site, All About Palm:

http://tinyurl.com/bdr23

There are even PHOTOS. Unfortunately, their photography skills are as bad as my own!

Cobalt:

http://www.palmsource.com/palmos/cobalt.html

-- what SHOULD have been on the LifeDrive, dammit!

QUOTING:

Input Methods

* Input Method framework; Licensees can also develop and integrate custom solutions other than Graffiti® 2 and standard keyboard layouts

-- that would have made it easier for Decuma to use the SIP, and for us to switch from The Abomination of Desolation (G2) to hacked G1.

Multimedia

* Extensible programming framework for creating advanced multimedia applications supports the following features:
o Audio playback of up to 16 streams, recording of a single stream
o Audio record mono/stereo, 8/16-bit, arbitrary sample rates
o Sound Manager for mixing sound sources
o Background playback
o Video playback
o APIs for access to audio/video hardware
o Available codecs include: MP3, MPEG-4, MPEG-1, AAC, H.263, AMR, Ogg

-- I don't see DiVX there, guys! bcombee?!!?

Just how stupid ARE you, Nagel?!
mikecane @ 5/31/2005 11:51:53 AM # Q
Why the hell didn't you wave that Oswin phone around at the DevCon?! Why was it hidden away in a corner and we have to find out about it now, days later, from a new and still-obscure website?! Don't you realize we've been PANTING to see something like this?! If only to shut up Gekko!??!

Now all I need is a version of this phone with a hard drive in it...

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Foo Fighter @ 5/31/2005 3:59:24 PM # Q
It looks like the photographer was so shocked and excited to see Cobalt running on an actual device he could barely steady his hands.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/31/2005 4:11:49 PM # Q
It looks like the photographer was so shocked and excited to see Cobalt running on an actual device he could barely steady his hands.

Ewan was running around DevCon with just a kilt, so more than likely he simply froze his brain and forgot how to focus the camera.

For his next trick he'll show you some blurry photos (taken in the dark with a Treo 600) of PalmLinux running on a T3. Or not.



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: The Tyranny of the Installed Base
Masamune @ 5/31/2005 6:22:42 PM # Q
I think he said on All About Symbian the only camera he had to hand was the built in one on a Treo. This would probably account for the poor quality.
Reply to this comment

Can't we all just get along ???

jdhill @ 5/30/2005 8:21:36 PM # Q
Gee, you guys are a contentious bunch !!!

It's hard to tell the Palm supporters from the Palm detractors here. You are all kinda mean and nasty !!!

So, back to the original subject: Does palmOne really think that a re-branding (back to just Palm) is going make a difference.

They need to concentrate on the Hardware.

PalmSource needs to concentrate on the Software.

Objects in their rear-view mirrors (Symbian, Windows Mobile) are larger than they appear.

palmOne and PalmSource need to decide if they want to:
1. Lead
2. Follow
3. Get out of the way

Kumbayah... Kumbayah
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/31/2005 3:08:39 AM # Q
Are you a Palm supporter or a Palm detractor? You are kinda mean and nasty !!!


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Can't we all just get along ???
mikecane @ 5/31/2005 11:19:30 AM # Q
>>>You are all kinda mean and nasty !!!

What the hell do you mean by that qualifier, "kinda"? It should be clear that I *am* mean and nasty, dammit. Do I have to raise the Volume Control to 11?

RE: Can't we all just get along ???
hkklife @ 6/1/2005 2:47:59 PM # Q
Rebranding is just a step towards the ultimate assimilation of PalmSource back into the "Palm Inc." fold, which is where it shoulda stayed the entire time--$-generating hocus pocus sham split aside, of course.

Funny how there are STILL POS units being sold by P1 with the old round "Palm" logo on them and we're already getting ready to abandon P1 in favor of the old Palm....

Reply to this comment

My Palm Analogy

Gekko @ 5/31/2005 7:01:06 PM # Q

Here is my Palm analogy. Palm was like this little Mom and Pop corner store you've been going to since 1996. They sold great products at a reasonable price, their customer service was excellent. You always had the option of shopping at the big Mega Store a few miles away, but the experience was never as good. You like Mom and Pop and they care about you and the business. But then ventually Mom and Pop sell out to the idiot sons in 2001. You have fond memories of the store established by years of shopping there and despite the sliding quality of operations and milking of the profits with no improvement to the store, you continue to shop there because you like what you know - it's easy and close by, and you had a long comfort level and loyalty to them - even if they might be a little more pricey - you're willing to pay. A few more years go by and the store has really turned to shiit. The products are all outdated and the produce is all bruised, the store is filthy, the bread is moldy, their prices are 1.5x as the BIG competitor, and it takes you 1/2 to go through the checkout line because their down to only 1 register. You also find out that the idiot sons moved to Hawaii and they hired THEIR high school dropout Idiot sons to run the place.

Eventually, you have no choice but to go to the Big Store to do your shopping. Despite the loyalty, comnfort level, "known entity" factors, you do what you have to do.



Reply to this comment

I just LOVE June 1st!!

mikecane @ 6/1/2005 1:20:32 PM # Q
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6866

-- The CLIE, as much fun as an iPoo!

RE: I just LOVE June 1st!! Cane , the Clue Train is leaving
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/11/2005 9:18:18 PM # Q
Cane, look what's happened to the PalmOS platform since Sony left:

Quality - down

Sales - down

Innovation - down

Future - questionable.

If you knew ANYTHING about PalmOS, you'd realize that Sony leaving may have been the coup de grace for the platform. I suppose that's something to celebrate, in your books. Get a clue or at least buy a vowel before you posst more crap here.


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: I just LOVE June 1st!!
mikecane @ 6/11/2005 9:41:21 PM # Q
Hahahaha. It took you long enough to find that post.

CaneCleaner™
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/11/2005 10:41:21 PM # Q
The hack I wrote to killfile you stopped working. CaneCleaner™ is a plugin for Internet Explorer that automatically removes any posts made by mikecane. As soon as I've fixed the bugs I'll be selling it to Palminfocenter readers for $100 per copy. I'm expecting to make over $1,000,000 in sales this year and plan to license the technology to Microsoft in a few months.


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Voice Noise
mikecane @ 6/12/2005 1:35:36 PM # Q
Why don't you simply do what most people do with *your* posts? NOT READ THEM.

Keep stalking, Pavlov.

Revenge of the Kutaragi
mikecane @ 6/13/2005 11:05:23 AM # Q
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/09/news_6127219.html

After he has helped to bleed MS to death via a thousand cuts, All Sony Are Belong To Him.

RE: I just LOVE June 1st!!
twrock @ 6/13/2005 9:34:32 PM # Q
Mike, interesting interview. But I don't think the interviewer completely knows what he is talking about. His "conclusions" at the beginning don't completely match up with what Kutaragi is saying. So he adds words to what Kutaragi says in an attempt to support his conclusions: I think we'll have [the PS3's HDD] preinstalled with Linux as a bonus. (note the brackets) Why does he assume you have to have a hard drive to have Linux installed? What about embedded Linux?

Reply to this comment

Squashed "quote bug"?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/26/2006 6:34:54 PM # Q
???
RE: Squashed
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/26/2006 6:39:07 PM # Q
Not quite.

;-O

Just messin' with you, Ryan

RE: Squashed 'quote bug'?
Admin @ 2/26/2006 6:48:06 PM # Q
works for me, maybe a 1st response bug

-Ryan
RE: Squashed 'quote bug'?
Admin @ 2/26/2006 6:52:02 PM # Q
ha I didn't read that fully, you got me
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