Comments on: Palm Treo 700w Review Highlights

true, but:

1. people will buy it en masse anyway.
2. it will only get better and better.

If the 700w is patched & supported with the same zeal that the 650 has enjoyed then only good can come from it. In the 700w's favor is a MUCH more robust set of hardware specs, so between M$ & Palm working on the software side things might start to work out rather well and the 700w will be a more compelling unit 6 months to a year down the road from where it is today.

On a related note: Did anyone see the news on the Treonauts blog about the impending 650 major firmware update? People are speculating that it's going to add anything from BlackBerry connect, Sprint Vision speed improvements via software, updates to VersaMail & Blazer etc etc. As long as Palm rolls this out to all carriers & flavors of 650, it'll make a nice 1-2-3 punch for '06 (650 update, 700w release, 700p release in a few months).

I STILL think that the 700w is the tip of the iceberg and unless the 700w is a *TOTAL* flop there will be at least one more WinMob Treo and maybe a WinMob PDA yet this year. Garnet will hang in there for the rest of '06 as the bulk of the PDA line and for the lower-end Treos.

P.S. Anyone read today's edition of USA Today? Who wants to bet there is a huge fullpage color ad from Verzon/Palm announcing the 700w? Always an attention getter!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Is WSJ the only one to review so far?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

http://tinyurl.com/art5s

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Treo-700w.htm

Also, David Pogue reviewed one as did MSNBC's personal tech guy (biased arse).

The reviews seem to run the gamut from "so-so" to "phenomenal"

I am surprised by the hardware specs as well as the claimed speed of the unit (no one's commented on it being laggy in reviews). However, I am surprised that people are still complaing about it being unintuitive,requiring too many keystrokes etc. Wasn't Palm working to SIMPLIFY WinMob?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

windows mobile is not palm os and palm os is not windows mobile.

if you are used to one platform, the other platform will appear counter-intuitive and clunky.

Give them time. There's a pretty big gap to bridge there.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

BUT Mossberg should be pretty up to speed on all things WinMob, right? I suppose he was specifically comparing & contrasting the 700w to the 650 instead of the 700w to OTHER WinMob devices. The later is more what I was wondering--"How much of an improvement is the 700w over older/other/competing WinMob devices as far as navigation and intuitive operation?" I automatically knew/assumed/figured the 650 to be easier to handle in all regards compared to the 700w.

I just wish the impossible would happen (Verizon to get a 700p) but I know that's never going to be the case. Once the Treo 650 is EOL on Verizon that's *it* with POS on their end.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

a 32-valve 4-cylinder engine? lol. Is there such a thing?

That's not the buzz, though. I'll have to look for a link when I get time, but I thought the word was that Verizon *would* be releasing one of the new Palm OS Treos later this year.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

David;
A link would be greatly appreciated. I wasn't able to turn up anything but the usual Sprint rumors for the 700p. The *new* buzz is apparently that the Hollywood Treo will also be WinMob and then there will be a mildly updated 700w later this year. So that's THREE Winmob Treos this year and just one or two (tops) Palm-based Treos.

Has anyone noticed just how damm good Palm's gotten as of late at keeping things quiet regarding impending hardware launches? Look how the TX was so hazy until a few days before the launch!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

But what really gripes me is the mismatching of Mossberg with the products he reviews. Walt is not a resource for professionals or "prosumers", he's a mainstream reviewer target at casual, far less savvy users. Basically the people who read his columns will NEVER buy a Treo. That being the case, why does WSJ entrust high-tech product reviews to this plodding old fart? You may as well have Martha Stewart review the damn thing.

And as for David Pogue, he's a pill. Pogue is intelligent, a great writer, and has a good sense of humor. His personality shows through in most of his writings, which is a good thing. BUT...the problem is...he's a Mac fanboy. Not just a fanboy, he also happens to be well-known Mac writer who has published many books on Apple, Macintosh, OSX, iPod, etc., which immediately establishes not only a bias, but also a serious conflict of interest. How can he review Windows based products when his bread is buttered by Macintosh? And this conflict of interest (read: bias) shows up time and again in his comments about Windows or Microsoft. Pogue's opinions scarcely look any different from the postings of a common troll on web forums. The only difference is he doesn't spell Microsoft as Micro$oft. Take anything David says about Windows or MS with a grain of salt and a shot of whiskey.

That said, in this particular case, I wouldn't doubt what either of these two are saying is the truth. Especially after using a Windows Mobile 5 device myself. ActiveSync 4 is a friggin disaster. The new UI is a even worse than the previous incarnations. And the low-resolution 240x240 screen is enough to keep many folks (especially Treo 650 users) from "upgrading" to the 700.

Personally, I would wait and see if there will in fact be a Treo 700p. But I'm much more interested in "Lowrider" and "Hollywood." The codenames alone peaks ones interest.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

who cares what the Moz thinks.

what does Kirvin think? it's a really a shame he surrendered/deserted and melted away into the desert before the bomb was dropped on him. i would have liked to see him writhe in this POS apologist's nuclear winter.

Funny you should mention that. Back when the 700w was first announced, Jeff believed that "Palm and Verizon will only offer this product direct through business channels only. You will NEVER see a Treo 700w sold in retail stores, because PalmOS is the consumer choice." Or something to that effect. Oddly enough, it seems this Treo will be made widely available after all. Could Jeff have been wrong?

Only Jeff could believe that Palm and Verizon would introduce a flagship mobile device...and then bury it away in back channels, away from human eyes and wallets.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

our buddy kirvin! i kind of miss him!

but you know he's here - along with MikeCon - watching and waiting...

hey MikeCon and kirvin - http://henancius.martin-scorsese.net/sounds/casino/peekaboo.wav

Poor guy.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

http://www.tapland.com/media/453_large.jpg

scary shiit.

While i certainly agree with yr take on Moss, i have to wonder who the heck u think IS qualified and un-biased to write reviews of Windows Mobile devices? Oh right - Windows users! If you u agree with that notion (only Windows users can review the Treo 700w) then that's just silly. If you do not agree - then i guess that leaves - who? Linux users? Wait! they are biased against MS too!!
Windows Mobile users or Windows users who don't know Palm OS will probably think this is the bee's knees - but they're biased too. All reviews of PDAs ever are biased based on the same factor.
Last I checked, Apple doesn't own - or own a stake in - Palm or Palm OS.

http://www.tapland.com/news_arc/?id=410&PHPSESSID=7a2d6848a08dfb0300d1255775530ccd

I'm saying that having a BIAS makes you less credible. And it Pogue's case it's not just bias, it's questionable financial interests. He makes his money from book royalties covering Apple products.

There's also a cloud of suspicion hanging over Walt's head as well, as the subject of certain "gifts" from Apple has come up in recent months. Word is that Apple lets old Walty keep those Macs he reviews even though he claims otherwise. This is why I call these reviewers into question. They are not entirely trustworthy sources.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

Probably because the WSJ is targeted at plodding old farts? Seriously, it's not exactly what you would call a cutting-edge tech market.

That said, in this particular case, I wouldn't doubt what either of these two are saying is the truth. Especially after using a Windows Mobile 5 device myself.

Seriously, am I the ONLY person who is having a good WM5 experience? I've found the UI changes to be quite helpful for one-handed navigation, the speed is better (at least on VGA devices) than SE, and I've only encountered one of the bugs that other people have seen. (The ActiveSync wakeup issue, on the PPC-6700.) I guess it must be one of those situations where the people who have had it go well never felt like standing up and making a speech.

You don't have to have any special credentials to review something, but it is neccessary that you not have an existing bias. If you take somebody who uses every opportunity to attack Microsoft, and ask them their opinion about an MS product, of course you're going to get a negative response. It's not a function of your desktop OS--look at the combination Mac/WM users. It's a function of partisanship.

And that was exactly my point about David Pogue. If you followed his writings as long as I have...you would know what kind of tech writer he really is. Some of has past comments about Microsoft are outright slanderous. Why NYT chose him to review PC related products, I'll never know. But it's like having Phil Schiller (Apple VP of marketing) review Windows products.

> "Seriously, am I the ONLY person who is having a good WM5 experience? I've found the UI changes to be quite helpful for one-handed navigation, the speed is better (at least on VGA devices) than SE, and I've only encountered one of the bugs that other people have seen."

To be fair, I'm using what must be the absolute worst Windows Mobile 5 device available...the iPaq rx1955. This thing has proven to be a steaming litter box of cat excrement. I bought it on the cheap ($230) with the intention (or rather delusion) of using it as a simple WiFi device to toss around for grabbing email and such. Oddly enough, it's good for anything BUT. The Wireless capability is ****. It won't connect to my secured WiFi network at all, and sometimes not even when I OPEN the network up. I keep getting a message saying it cannot find a DHCP server. What's even more frustrating is when, after one or two failed connection attempts...it REMOVES my network profile. Meaning I have to go back add a new network profile, input my WEP keys settings and everything. Nice, huh?

I finally broke down soon after and purchased a TX. Guess what? The TX connects fast and flawlessly. I turn on WiFi (on the TX) it sniffs my network and connects in less than 5 seconds. Boom! I'm online checking my email, etc. The iPaq takes up to 5 minutes to connect, on those rare moments when it actually succeeds of course.

The iPaq also doesn't support softkeys, so they are useless to me. And I hate the way all the tools and options, which were once instantly accessible, are now buried away in submenus. As for one-handed navigation...it simply does not exist on this particular device. Partly for the lack of softkey buttons. The experience might be much improved on WinMob Smartphone device, but on a standard PDA it outright sucks. The piddly QVGA screen is gutting compared to that oh so lovely HVGA Palm resolution, which is why I wouldn't leap at the chance of buying a 700w or any other WinMob device. 480x480 is my demand and nothing less.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

WM fans love the Treo 700w. Mobiletechreview gave it 4 1/2 stars out of 5. I guess a review should be aimed at the potential users. If you want to convert POS users get a POS user to review it. If you want WM to upgrade to it then get WM fans to review it. I agree Mossberg and friend did not have a good reputation amongst WM users even before this. The only way to counter bias is to get as many reviews as possible, and listen to the reviewers you trust.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

That's EXACTLY how I imagined him looking (but with less hair, actually).

Ditto the comments about the TX's wi-fi prowess. Given Palm's relative lack of experience in all things wi-fi, the TX performs beautifully. I have taken it to be my around-the-town wi-fi hotspot sniffer and it's even enabled me to finally throw out that piece of junk Kensington Wi-FINDER I had been carrying in my laptop bag.

A shame the TX's BT stack is in such shambles, isn't it? More so than anyone else, Palm jumped on the BT bandwagon _early_. They should have an absolutely flawless BT wizard & configuration. I still cannot get over the fact of how the Thinkoutside/Palm keyboard driver keeps turning on BT when I have just an IR keyboard!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

To be fair, I'm using what must be the absolute worst Windows Mobile 5 device available...the iPaq rx1955.

Whoogh. You need to get yourself an Axim.

The iPaq also doesn't support softkeys, so they are useless to me.

Actually, you can remap the app buttons to the softkeys, which is what I do. Yes, you lose any app-launching capability from your front buttons, which is a little annoying, but it does enable one-hand navigation, which is pretty nice.

Surur, what you say about a review being aimed at potential users is pretty on the mark. I would probably have to give the T700 a relatively good score for its combination of form-factor and features, even though I wouldn't want to use one myself. (240 x 240 screen, plus I'm not into converged devices.)

You know, for once I'm actually thinking about picking one of these up for my own use. How's the battery life in actual use?

Damn, one major sticking point is that I'm a major 30wpm Fitaly user and TextWare bailed out of supporting FitalyVirtual on the TX after Palm once again changed the dynamic input area implementation under the hood. It's such a shame.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

I gave the PPC-6700 two weeks of my time and then returned it. I really wanted to like it, but I didn't. I even thought about keeping it simply for the sake of having a device to aid me in learning .NET programming so that I could write some new shareware apps to improve the WM5 experience, but I needed something that worked well for my daily usage and decided to switch back to my Treo 650.

The Palm-developed usability-focused applets are great, but they're akin to putting a gold ring in a pig's ear. Windows Mobile enjoys some fundamental usability flaws that cannot be overcome by add-on software. Other usability issues can be, however. The bottom line is that unless and until Access/PalmSource get their act together or some unheard-of makes their presence known, WM5 looks to be what we have to work with. Like it or lump it.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

If I was going to buy a WM device I certainly wouldn't buy it from palm. Actually if I had any option of someone else to buy a palm phone from I would probably buy it from them. I think anyone who buys this thing is a fool. There's much better WM solutions out there. The question is really just whether you can stand WM. I can't.

But, yeah, IT departments will probably still shove them down people's throats. Damn IT departments.

I was going to let this slide, but:

Re: Jeff Kirvin:

First, I believe he said that the 700w would be marketed to corporate IT and would probably be in the corporate channel first, not that consumers could not get them.

Second, the picture in question was submitted for a contest put on by Zodiac. Also, Jeff has lost weight. Probably lost some hair too. Context matters. I am a little curious as to when folks are going to quit "waiving the bloody shirt" of Kirvin, he's left the game already guys. Move on.

Third, as a practical matter, the fact that Palm is selling a WM device is just giving a segment of your market what they ask for. It was very interesting to note that Gates put a fair amount of his Bill Clintonesq (read LONG -the speech anyway) CES keynote on the WM Treo.

Finally, in the end so what if Access/PalmSource EOLs Garnet? We used to use CP/M, then there was DOS, then Windows. The average end user does not really care whats under the hood, they care if it does the job. Palm will have the "Palm OS" if for no other reason than to keep its independence from Microsoft.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

No MikeCane....No Kirvin...No Marty Fouts...No Voice...what is the reason for the dearth of comments by the "names" here on PIC during this WATERSHED event???

On a related note, the discussion so far seems to be moving merrily along and filled with some good insight and thoughtful commentary. Let's keep it up!

P.S. Is block character recongition (aka GRAFFITI 1) still present in the Treo or did Palm somehow armtwist M$ into removing it?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

"On a related note...." I love it. Isn't the presence of TVoR in a thread almost always the thing that brings any thoughtful commentary to a grinding halt?

Be honest, now: when was the last time you had any "wisdom" or "insight" from TVoR? Surely you've been around the block enough to realize that only "voice" he hears is in his head. Half the stuff he posts here would be considered by a qualified professional to be a cry for help, and the rest is just grandstanding, not anything you could call analysis or commentary. He's a bright guy as most paranoid schizophrenics are, and he's probably blessed with a supportive family to be able to function as well as he does, but don't kid yourself about his contributions here being anything more than "color."

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Yeah, I read Mike's "rantings of a madman" Nokia blog a while back.

Kent;
Have YOU personally started to lose interest in POS?
Show of hands, anyone?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

I'll leave it up to Ryan's discretion to report on what's happening at PalmSource right now...

Beersy: http://tinyurl.com/a7swm

Two further comments:

- I had been advisd that Garmin was pulling out of the PalmOS device sphere. Their new GPS was evidently too far down the development cycle to cancel when this decision was made last year.

- The Windows Mobile Treo is a device primarily for BUSINESSES and will be sold as a Blackberry Killer to businesses with Microsoft Exchange Server. If one accepts the truism that most users are not geeks and only "need"/use a tiny fraction of their devices' capabilities, you'll see why the T7W did not need to reach a high standard to be considered a success. The fox is in the henhouse. Palm's fate is sealed.

These are sad times for those of us who have supported Palm/PalmOS over the years.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

I'm sincerely impressed by your restraint, Voice. If you're talking about the same "things going on with Palm OS" that I'm thinking of I'd just like to remind you that regardless of what you might hear no fate is sealed just yet. ACCESS seems to have a very good record in managing engineering teams and delivering products, and given their level of investment I fully expect them to bring some of that expertise to bear within PalmSource.

In the meantime, here's to anticipating the 700p!

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

I'm not sure how many times they think they can reinvent the wheel without destroying the platform (and the livelihood of all those dependent upon it) in the process. If the clock is about to strike midnight, you dance with the girl/guy you brought to the party.

Fcuk Benhamou.

Fcuk corporate games.

Fcuk every idiot executive at Palm/"PalmSource" that has leeched all the remaining blood out of the compan[y][ies].

I'll have NOTHING more to say about this until the sh!t hits the fan.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Maybe. Maybe not. Some corporate IT departments will not allow access through the Microsoft Exchange Server for non-BB devices, when they have bought and paid for the BB service. (At least that's what our IT people say.)

Then your IT people are either crazy or stupid. The 700w and Exchange push would let them cut out the cost of all the Blackberry tech.

"Why get something for free when you can pay for it instead?"

Yeah. Right.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

TVoR:
"Much bigger things are now going on with PalmOS that have sealed the platform's fate. Commenting right now would be akin to kicking someone when he's down."

Cervezas:
"I'm sincerely impressed by your restraint, Voice. If you're talking about the same "things going on with Palm OS" that I'm thinking of I'd just like to remind you that regardless of what you might hear no fate is sealed just yet."

Do you guys have this kind of secret discussion on a public forum to *deliberately* drive people like me nuts? ;) What do you know that the rest of us don't?

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

With respect, I think you are wrong - our IT people are BOTH crazy AND stupid. But that's what they told me when I asked to connect my Treo 650 (when I was using it) to access our firm's email system. They point blank refused my request even though we have Exchange and even though I gave them the link to Palm's website which contains instructions about using a Treo 650 with Exchange.

If this pigheaded attitude is typical of what other corporate IT departments do, then it be another example of 'tyranny of the installed base' (as the phenomenon has been described so eloquently).

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

If this pigheaded attitude is typical of what other corporate IT departments do, then it be another example of 'tyranny of the installed base' (as the phenomenon has been described so eloquently).

I think you're confusing an IT department's (understandable) desire to maintain uniformity (and decrease support headaches from your use of a single personal Treo 650) with what will be inevitable embracement of an upcoming "All-Microsoft" push email "solution". Bye Bye Blackberry. Businesses will go with Microsoft, but when they do so, it will be the ENTIRE company converting - not a willy-nilly conversion on an individual basis by a select few power users. Use a little common sense next time.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Curse you, insiders! I don't want to be part of your stupid little club anyways!! :P

Can you tell us how long before this bomb is dropped?

Promise that's my last question.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Yes, that's the general idea. :P

I don't actually have inside information and am not aware of anything I'd call a "bomb" dropping. What I do know I'd rather not discuss any more than I already have because, well, just because.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Promise that's my last question.

Sadly, it's already been dropped.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

I'm flattered by being considered a "name", but I haven't said anything because I don't have anything to say. Palm didn't share any details on 700W with us, and I probably couldn't share them if they did. Besides, I'm currently locked into a two year deal on my cell phone, so I'm definitely not in the market.

Also, I've been busy with the holidays, and not getting hired by Google to work on whatever they bought Android for, and I start my new job on next Wednesday, so I'm probably going to be even less vocal in the near future.

May You Live in Interesting Times

That is so typical of the sort of attitude I have come to expect from help desk jockeys like you.

I'm not the only one being persecuted. The guys next door to me bought himself an I-mate JAM for Christmas. Will IT let him access his emails? No. Same story for colleagues on other floors and other offices. Regardless of whether someone has a Palm OS devices or something else, it's the same story: Blackberry or nothing. Period.

I don't claim to be a 'power user'. All I (and others) wanted was to access emails from our system. Is this too much to ask these days? No, I wouldn't have thought so, not in today's environment. But because I purchased a Treo (rather than a Blackberry), I'm not permitted access. Why? Because our IT people say it's Blackberry or nothing. Period.

3) It happens that I'm a co-owner of our business. You know what that means? It means I'm the poor shmuck how has to pay for all the nice shiny hardware and software that keeps our IT people amused. (Let's not even go into the ridiculous salaries we pay them.) Don't you think it would be 'common sense' for them to do as I and my partners ask? It doesn't matter to them - so far as they are concerned, it's Blackberry or nothing. Period.

Things may change. But for now, this is the what we have to put up with, at least in our firm.

Things may change. But for now, this is the what we have to put up with, at least in our firm.

Spoken like a clueless twit, Simony. People who think like you are precicely the reason IT departments are so anxious to maintain strict control over all devices interfacing with their systems. Exactly how many different devices do you expect your IT department should be supporting? Let's see... the company's Blackberrys, your Treo 650, the I-mate JAM of "The guy[s] next door, and maybe all of the devices of "colleagues on other floors and other offices"? Wow. Hope you have a BIG budget for your IT department. Maybe then they'll stop making you feel so "persecuted".

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

The 'clueless twit' you are referring to is the one who foots the bill.

If your IT department started supporting every user's personal device - like you seem to expect them to - they might just suddenly become your company's BIGGEST expense item.

If you're such a bigwig in your company and still can't get them to bend the rules for you, you must be quite a wuss. Really.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Lol.

Sorry, Simony. But he makes a good point.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

I have been using Palms of one sort or another for a decade, and at first the Treo 700w seemed a little weird. Many Palm aficionados will prefer to stick with the familiar Treo 650. For one thing, it offers a better display, since Palm actually had to reduce resolution to meet Windows standards. But Pocket PC users and many newcomers to high-end smartphones will find the Treo 700w a delight. It's by far the best Pocket PC I have used, and the first one that I have ever really wanted to carry.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2006/tc20060105_864306.htm?campaign_id=hp_views&campaign_creative=Steve%20Wildstrom

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Translation: The Treo 700w is excellent FOR A Windows Mobile device. That's not saying much, is it?

Let's see how the sales of this monstrosity go.

Does it really matter how the T7W sells? Its release symbolizes the end of PalmOS. The Huns have finally broken through the gates and it's just a matter of time before they'll all be partying on Colligan et al's a$$es.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

In the future, maybe. But judging from the reviews, this puppy is still far from being a PalmOS replacement. The only true benefits I can see are the built-in media player and the superior camera.

It seems to have taken a few steps back interface-wise. I *hate* the "everything-under-a-menu" design philosophy that most cellphones follow, and the 700w seems to fall right into this categoy. And the Messaging app - one of the Treo's biggest selling points - has been neutered, despite the email integration.

In other words: it says Treo on the outside, but it's not there yet. Props to Palm for taking a good shot though.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

"Those dogs will roast their stomachs at the gates of Bagdad. They are all doomed."

...if you were already wanting a WM device. Yep, seems Palm figured out how to make a great WM device.

Is it just me? I haven't gone out of my way to find reviews of the 700w, but so far, seems the general feeling is that the 650 is still at least the equal if not the superior device. We are "almost" looking at a head-to-head comparison. Seems the OS really does matter, and the very-long-in-the-tooth Garnet is looking pretty good still. What gives Surur? This 700w with WM should be far superior to 650 with Garnet. It has such a superior OS, right? ;)

(Incidentally, TinyURL is our friend.)

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

But I prefer the way I put it.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

A few things.

a) The Treo 700w is quite a poorly featured WM device
b) It has been seriously crippled memory wise by Palm (as they usually do) What were they thinking!?!
c) The UI (which is what most reviewers are complaining about) isn't everything.

If the Treo 700w turns out to be more useful than a 650 it will be the better device. Especially if its more stable. Its already more expandable (look at the WIFI card).

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Just 90% of it. ;)

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

I do agree with some of the other postings here that the strong showing the ancient 650 makes next to the 700w is more of a testament to the inherent weaknesses & usability guffaws of WinMob instead of the "strengths" of Garnet.

I am absolutely going nuts trying to find ANY concrete proof of the 700p's existence. It's all hearsay regarding its impending launch on Sprint. The whole thing could STILL end up being a Zire 73 (a heavily rumored but ultimately vaporous product).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

I wouldn't call it "little improved" over the 600, except for the 32mb memory insanity. BT, hi-resolution and double the horsepower took an great device and made it awesomr IMO. Now that it's stable, it's become such a standard that Bill Gates held it in his hand gloating in SF.

That being said, the above discussion about WM v POS is amusing. The older (15+ months!)POS version seems to be getting superior billing ... Yes, but the 700w is crippled specwise. :-D The "superior" Treo 650 has only 32mb RAM, while the 700w has a newer PXA, WMs only available resolution and a whopping 128MB RAM, yet Palm "underpowered" it. Imagine the Treo 650 if it had all that memory + the ROM ... they would have already taken over the world and Ed Colligen would be our benevolent dictator.

Hehe ... I think we've answered our own question here concerning the superior OS. Unfortunately market forces are propelling us toward adoption of the lesser standard. :-(

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

OR

The "superior" OS in terms of intuitiveness, user-friendliness, software base, minimal memory & CPU requirements?

Superiority is a relative term/status/condition...and it's not exactly inexorably linked to either the PPC or POS camp.

Remember: "the grass is always greener"

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Save your sanity. There isn't any, at least not yet, just the statement that they would be introing 3 new Treos besides the 700w. That may mean 700p plus two other models, or it may mean 700w GSM, plus 700p GSM and CDMA. Or it may mean something completely different.

On the subject of the 650 versus the 700, I think that a lot of this is in the eye of the beholder. Realistically, there isn't so much of a difference between the two OSes that you could reasonably look at one and pronounce it the greatest thing since sliced bread, and say that the other is terrible. Both have a Today screen. Both of them have an application list screen. Windows has a Start button, and Palm has a Home button, which perform very similar tasks, i.e. giving you access to recently run programs or the main app screen. Both have pop-up menus for program options. Both have been knocked for speed issues, though I don't see the big deal with either. Both have been knocked for multitasking related oversights. Both have one-handed navigation. And so on, and so on...

Palm and Windows really aren't that hugely different. So go, prefer one or the other, but don't waste your time on arguing supremacy over what is realistically a mostly perceptual difference.

The screen is absolutely gorgeous. And I'm pleased to say the low-resolution isn't nearly as obvious as you might think. The smaller screen size packs the pixels together more tightly which gives the illusion of high-res. Still not quite as sharp as the 650, but just as bright.

Here's one that will throw you all for a loop...as it did me at first; the 700w will work with standard Treo and TX sync cables. I took the 700w and plugged it into my TX's sync cable the device immediately synced up automatically without pressing the sync button of course.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

If not, then maybe its just the 700w's media software; i.e. PockeTunes sounds better than Realplayer does. Sounds a lot richer, and not quite as tinny.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Wait a minute.

For years, the trolls have run riot here at PIC, with their M$ sponsored spin campaigns, ranting about the inferiority of Palm OS. Mr Hansberry's flunkies have made literally hundreds of posts on this subject. In post after post, they harped on and on about the weaknesses of Palm OS. In post after post, they claimed that Palm OS had broken down, that it was obsolete, that it is good for nothing, etc, etc. Anyone who didn't agree with them was labelled an 'Apologist' or was abused in other ways.

For years, the trolls have sought to brag about the alleged superiority of WinCE/PPC/WinMob/whatever (and they tried to turn a blind eye to all its deficiencies). They went on and on about the alleged superiority of 'multi-tasking', they repeated all of M$'s marketing spin about 'you can do more' with one of their devices, etc, etc.

But now that a direct comparison between Palm OS Garnet and Windows Docile can be made, on hardware which is similar, now you are saying that they are not 'hugely different'? How can this be?

More importantly, why is it that M$ has wasted all that time and money producing an OS for handheld devices which is not 'hugely different' from what they claim to be a broken down and obsolete rival?

Lets see - with the Treo 700w you get, out of the box:

1) a today screen.
2) memory protection
3) multi-tasking
4) mp3 ring tones
5) wider range of drivers, meaning a bigger pool of accessories
6) the ability to have multiple active IP connections (e.g. WIFI and EVDO at the same time)
7) .Net CF, which will make it extremely easy to port mobile apps
8) MS Voice Command
9) The ability to use larger SD >2GB
10) Access to a large library of modern software
11) Access to a large library of modern games
12) Full Activesync support (e-mail, calender, contacts etc)
13) In the next few months, push e-mail and A2DP
14) PlayForSure compatibility
15) Better bluetooth Support
16) Better network support (e.g. mapping shared drives)
17) An actively developed OS with an upgrade path.
18) After you transition, you will have a much wider range of hardware available to you in the future (vs the limited POS offerings).

I'm sure there are many more benefits, but the OS situation is certainly better on the WM side. You may be able to get most of these things on the Treo 650, but it will cost you extra. These are all out of the box. POS may have been refined over the years, but its all superficial, in the UI. The woodwork is thoroughly rotten.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

There will be a Treo 700p, but that may be the only Palm OS Smartphone we see from Palm this year. And I have a hunch Palm is going to roll its own Linux/J2ME phone as well as a Windows Mobile Smartphone (I'm talking genuine Smartphone, not Pocket PC PE). But I have an itching sensation that tells me Palm is working with RIM in some fashion. I half wonder if we'll see a merger in the works, or if Palm may somehow license their platform to create Palm Blackberries. We'll see.

I'm betting we're also going to see one or more Windows Mobile PDA as well, but probably just one high-end model as I expect Palm and other vendors move away from traditional PDAs. No one is investing in that space anymore.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

1) a today screen. THIS IS THE 'TODAY SCREEN' WHICH WINMOB USERS COMPLAIN ABOUT EG, THE SLOWNESS OF IT WHEN RUNNING PLUG-INS?
2) memory protection AS IN NVFS (COPIED FROM PALM)?
3) multi-tasking WHICH MEANS THAT YOU CAN'T TURN OFF AN APP WHICH YOU ARE NO LONGER USING, THUS ADVERSELY AFFECTING PERFORMANCE ON AN APP THAT YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO USE. THIS IS A SELLING POINT?
4) mp3 ring tones PUH-LEASE. FANCY RINGTONES MAY AMUSE THE CHILDREN, BUT I DON'T EXPECT THIS WILL CUT MUCH ICE WITH A BUSINESS USER. (IF THIS IS A SELLING POINT, I WOULD MENTION THAT PALMGEAR.COM HAS SOME APPS THAT DO THIS, I BELIEVE.)
5) wider range of drivers, meaning a bigger pool of accessories FAIR POINT, I GUESS, SINCE CARRIERS DON'T WANT PALM TO RELEASE DRIVERS FOR THEIR WIFI CARDS FOR USE ON TREO 650S
6) the ability to have multiple active IP connections (e.g. WIFI and EVDO at the same time) MY TREO 650 (WHEN I WAS USING IT), ALLOWED ME TO USE A BLUETOOTH HEADSET WHILE ON THE PHONE. IS THIS THE SORT OF THING YOU MEAN? (AS FOR WIFI, I CAN'T SEE MYSELF USING THIS ON A DEVICE WITH EV-DO. YMMV.)
7) .Net CF, which will make it extremely easy to port mobile apps I DEFER TO YOUR SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE ON THIS POINT. HOWEVER, THIS MAY NOT CUT MUCH ICE FOR THE AVERAGE BUSINESS USER, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU TECH-HEADS SAY.
8) MS Voice Command. SO?
9) The ability to use larger SD >2GB THIS COULD BE AN IMPORTANT ADVANTAGE. ANOTHER POINT FOR YOU.
10) Access to a large library of modern software HAVE YOU VISITED PALMGEAR.COM LATELY?
11) Access to a large library of modern games YOU CAN'T SERIOUSLY SAY THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE OF INTEREST TO A BUSINESS USER. ANYWAY, HAVE YOU VISITED PALMGEAR.COM LATELY?
12) Full Activesync support (e-mail, calender, contacts etc) THIS 'ACTIVESYNC' YOU REFER TO - IS IT THE BUGGY DESKTOP SYNCRONISATION SOFTWARE THAT SO MANY USERS COMPLAIN ABOUT? OR ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE ACTIVESYNC SOFTWARE WHICH ALLOWS REMOTE ACCESS (AND WHICH COMES WITH MY TREO 650)?
13) In the next few months, push e-mail and A2DP SEE MY PREVIOUS POSTS ABOUT WHAT OUR IT PEOPLE SAY ABOUT BLACKBERRY SUPPORT.
14) PlayForSure compatibility CAN'T COMMENT ON THIS - POINT TO YOU, I SUPPOSE.
15) Better bluetooth Support MY TREO 650 HAS A BLUETOOTH RADIO WHICH WORKED WELL (IE, BEFORE I STOPPED USING MY TREO). I ACKNOLEDGE THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE BT1.2. PERHAPS THE PALM 700P WILL HAVE THIS?
16) Better network support (e.g. mapping shared drives) I CAN'T SEE HOW THIS IS A SELLING POINT TO A BUSINESS USER. I DARE YOU TO TELL A BANKER (FOR EXAMPLE) ABOUT 'MAPPING SHARED DRIVES' WITH A STRAIGHT FACE.
17) An actively developed OS with an upgrade path. YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT M$ WILL NOT DISCONTINUE WINMOB - REMEMBER WINCE/PPC/WINMOB/WHATEVER HAS NOT MADE A DIME IN PROFITS AFTER ALL THIS TIME.
18) After you transition, you will have a much wider range of hardware available to you in the future (vs the limited POS offerings). QUE? PEOPLE BUY CONVERGED DEVICES TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF TOYS THEY HAVE TO CARRY. OR ARE YOU REFERRING TO SAY GPS UNITS (WHICH, I'M TOLD, WORK WELL WITH PALM OS DEVICES WITH BLUETOOTH)?

I SEE YOU HAVE NOT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE CLUNKY WINDOWS INTERFACE OR THE POOR USER EXPERIENCE. GUI IS EVERYTHING FOR SOMEONE WHO JUST WANTS TO CHECK A PHONE NUMBER, VIEW A DOCUMENT OR SET UP AN APPOINTMENT REMINDER.

SO, HERE WE ARE, AFTER 6-7 YEARS OF EFFORT AND MILLIONS FLUSHED DONE THE DRAIN, M$ HAVE AN OS WHICH IS NOT HUGELY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT PALM OS DOES. HANG YOUR HEAD IN SHAME, MR HANSBERRY.

Surur

Interesting position, but one might argue that your position that Windows Mobile is "a better, broader platform" is tenuous at best. How do you define "better"? Is a parrotted list of Windows Mobile features (many of which can be replicated on PalmOS make Windows Mobile "better"? Or does ease of use/functionality/UI reign supreme? As you admit yourself, "You may be able to get most of these things on the Treo 650, but it will cost you extra." PalmOS seems to allow users to have their cake (UI) and eat it too (featuritis on demand, though at extra expense).

Windows Mobile is akin to a supermodel with a face that's been permanently disfigured by leprosy. Yes, there may be a nice body, but so hideous to look at. And what happens when you get infected/stricken by ActiveSync? Thanks, but I'll pass.

The real question here is whether or not an OS (PalmOS) that is overreaching it's simplistic origins can be finessed into a more sophisticated OS easier than it is for an OS (WinCE) that started out with grand illusions to be brute-forced (with advanced hardware) and cajoled (with UI redesigns) into being more easy to use. Unfortunately, now that PalmOS has been purchased by Access, we'll never know the answer to that question.

Each of us decides what works best for our individual needs. I'll take a PalmOS CLIE TH55 and a Treo 650 over ANY equivalent Windows Mobile PDA + smartphone combination because - for me - FUNCTIONALITY and UI beat FEATURITIS. Rock. Paper, Scissors... Until Windows Mobile comes up with a true Killer App (e.g. accurate voice-to-text transcription) that's unavailable on PalmOS I'll keep on happily using my stockpiled CLIEs. I do realize that every year, with every advance (VGA screens, Skype, USB host ability, "free" push email, etc.) that Windows Mobile users receive well in advance of PalmOS users, the number of people that stick with PalmOS will decline. The irony is that Palm has seemingly become a willing participant in the Netscaping of the very product (PalmOS) that Palm itself created 10 years ago. Like Lennon said, "Strange days indeed".

TVoR
Copyright, 2006.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

A number of reviews on the Treo 700w do a head-to-head comparison with the corresponding functions on the Treo 650. (Makes sense, I guess, since it's the leading product.) Those reviews focus on basic functions - phone, email, calendar, contacts, todos, etc - and to a lesser extent on internet, documents, spreadsheets, etc. (Take a look at the treanauts.com 3 part review as an example.)

The point is that the reviews deal with what matters most to users out there in the real world. The reviewers do not seem to be sucked into the 'you can do more' mantra which is so often repeated by the Redmond marketing-types.

This suggests that, in the marketplace, what people want is a converged device which brings together good phone/email functions with good organiser capabilities (and it doesn't hurt to throw in internet access and basic Office-type functions).

As a very broad generalisation, when doing that sort of comparison the Treo 700w mostly stacks up about the same as the 18-month old Treo 650, although in some particular areas the Treo 650 functions are said to be slightly better and vice versa.

So where does this leave the M$ marketing people? Remember, these are the guys who have been telling us, over and over and over again, that Palm units are 'just organisers' and that WinCE/PPC/WinMob/whatever is so superior because 'you can do more'.

I'll answer my own question: the 'you can do more' marketing angle is no more than that - just marketing - and consumers really focus on the basic functionality. And when it comes to those basic functions, the old Treo 650 (which, so people say, runs on an obsolete OS) stacks up pretty well.

I just find this amazing, after seeing the hundreds of posts here at PIC about the alleged superiority of the Windows Docile.

May You Live in Interesting Times

However, let me give you an analogy. Say you want to mow your lawn. You can buy a 2-stroke mower or a 4-stroke mower. Most mechanics would say that a 4-stroke engine is technically superior - it is smoother, it makes less noise, etc. But a 2-stroke is slightly lighter (which makes the mower is easier to push), it is easier to service, etc. Most importantly, a 2-stroke lawnmower is usually cheaper. They both do the job about the same. So for the guy who wants to cut the grass (and who doesn't care what happens 'under the hood') - we'll, he would normally buy a 2-stroke machine.

So long as Palm OS based Treos are cheaper than the Treo 700w, the average user will likely go for one of those, since (in terms of the functionality) they are much the same.

But the computer industry is so different, I hear you say. (I don't that, but let's assume that's right for the now.) Fine. Don't forget that IBM invented the PC, but IBM lost its market share to the cheaper 'clones', which did the same job, because corporate IT departments didn't want to spend the extra money on IBM PCs. This was despite IBM's name and despite all their marketing about making 'better' PCs.

http://tinyurl.com/9xkuo

Look at his expression. Perhaps he is worried about the money wasted by those heroes in the WinMob division. Just think how many charities could have put that money to good use.

Surur

a) Is this really what all the reviewers are saying? I don't seem to be reading that. Hmm....
b) Actually, the specs look pretty good, ... if you could install a "superior OS" in it.
c) It seems quite important enough for the reviewers to make a big deal out of.

But seriously, I really think this 700w goes a long way to dispelling the myth of "WM superiority". It will be quite fun to see how the 700p stacks up when/if it arrives, as well as any Linux based machine. I'm quite satisfied with my TX at the moment, so for the most part, I'm just sitting back and enjoying the entertainment.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

The advantages of WM would not be immediately apparent to a superficial review, but many of the advantages listed would appeal to an IT purchaser, and a lot more to a more advanced user. Its not all about marketing.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

You can prattle about the 'foundations' of one operating system versus another all you want. However, if the differences have little practical significance in terms of day-to-day usage, then of what importance are the differences in the 'foundations'?

None, I would say, other than in terms of marketing. That is, some gullible people may go in for something which is advertised as a being more 'advanced' even though they have to pay more for the privilege.

Advantages that will appeal to a vertical IT buyer.

Memory protection (this means one app can not access the memory of another, and therefore if one app crashes it does not take down the whole device (usually))
Full Activesync support (E-mail, Calender, Contacts) (Exchange Activesync on the Treo only does E-mail and Calender, not Contacts)
Better network support (e.g. mapping shared drives (after your IT guy sets this up, you could VPN into the company and open documents directly from the company server))
An actively developed OS with an upgrade path. (Very important for a company. Only fantasists are still waiting for WM to be dropped)
After you transition, you will have a much wider range of hardware available to you in the future ( I am talking about hardware devices and form factors, like HTC Universal, Samsung i730, Treo 700w etc etc)
In the next few months, push e-mail (Obviously very attractive to IT as a blackberry alternative)
Wider range of drivers, meaning a bigger pool of accessories (self-evident)
The ability to have multiple active IP connections (e.g. WIFI and EVDO at the same time) A scenario where this would be useful is if you used a campus VOIP solution, your Exchange Activesync would go through WIFI, and when you leave the work area your exchange Activesync would seamlessly move over to the EVDO connection.
.Net CF, which will make it extremely easy to port mobile apps (obviously attractive to for vertical solutions, with similar API's to desktop software)
Better development tools (In the form of Visual Studio, the same software IDE used on the desktop, which again speeds development of vertical solutions)
Standardization of camera API (this means software that access the camera would be easily moved from device to device, e.g. Palm to HP, without having to rewrite anything)
Standardization of GPS API (again, this allows a lot of software to access GPS receivers simultaneously)