The Palm Pre is the long awaited, eagerly anticipated and uber-hyped next generation smartphone from Palm Inc. First unveiled at the Consumer Electronics Show in January amidst much fanfare, the device has been an online media darling ever since.
Arriving in Sprint retail stores on June 6, the Palm Pre is the result of a corporate restructuring years in the making and tons of behind the scenes work. It will also be available from Best Buy and select Wall-Mart stores in the US. The Pre will sell for $199 from Sprint after rebates and a two year service contract. The full retail price without a contract will be $599.
Now that it's finally here, read on as PalmInfocenter presents our in-depth review of the Palm Pre.
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So, Ryan....
twrock @ 6/4/2009 2:34:56 AM
I'm really curious. How long have you had the device? I assume you were under some sort of NDA until today, right?
Looks like Palm really does have a nice smartphone to start selling on Saturday. Unfortunately, this still doesn't look like the device for me. Should make plenty of other people happy though.
Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: So, Ryan....
Ryan @ 6/4/2009 10:45:20 AM
So I've only had a Pre for 6 days so far. Palm is being rather limited with the amount of time its allowing reviewers to spend with the device. PIC was only granted a 7 day trial, while in the past the standard has been at least three weeks.
However, I'm now reading a few reviews where they mention that they've had it for weeks.
RE: So, Ryan....
LiveFaith @ 6/4/2009 12:29:44 PM
Maybe you'll learn your lesson and deliver more Palm Kool-Aid in the next review. :-D Juuuuuust jokin'. Good review!
Pat Horne
RE: So, Ryan....
twrock @ 6/4/2009 4:29:17 PM
Ryan wrote:
However, I'm now reading a few reviews where they mention that they've had it for weeks.
Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: So, Ryan....
mikecane @ 6/4/2009 5:07:49 PM
Hey, it's great that PIC was granted the ability to have a review out the same day as everyone else. Do you think this is a sign of a New Palm?
Reply
Great review
freakout @ 6/4/2009 2:43:51 AM
nice work Ryan. Glad to hear about the keyboard, especially. Can't wait to get my hands on one of these!
Reply
Sub-editor
stonehat @ 6/4/2009 3:07:17 AM
Good show of enthusiasm, but silly mistakes and poor writing make this hard for me to read.
You need a sub-editor.
RE: Sub-editor
twrock @ 6/4/2009 5:44:50 AM
stonehat wrote:
Good show of enthusiasm, but silly mistakes and poor writing make this hard for me to read.
You need a sub-editor.
Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Sub-editor
Ryan @ 6/4/2009 10:49:58 AM
I'm going to be correcting some stuff throughout the day. If anyone spots any glaring errors I always appreciate a quick email about it.
But still, I had to publish an earlier draft than I would have liked. I had a limited amount of time to prepare the review in advance and it seems the NDA time was tossed out the window when some sites posted their reviews early. These things take a great deal of effort and long time to compose, especially without sub-editors, graphic artists and such at your disposal.
RE: Sub-editor
SeldomVisitor @ 6/4/2009 10:55:45 AM
Fill the Pre "multitasking applications" to overflow, back off one app, then take and make phone calls.
RE: Sub-editor
freakout @ 6/5/2009 3:57:00 AM
I thought you were saying the Pre is vaporware, SV. Why would such a test matter? :P
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photo / iPhoto import?
pmjoe @ 6/4/2009 4:00:36 AM
In the iTunes photo, it shows you have 33.3 MB of photos. I know you said iTunes won't sync photos, but it looks like it recognizes they're there. Will iPhoto recognize the Pre and import photos from it?
Will any/most applications for digital cameras import from the Pre?
RE: photo / iPhoto import?
Ryan @ 6/4/2009 10:51:43 AM
As you can see, I tried to get photos onto the device via iTunes, but it did not work. iTunes went through the motions of syncing over some stuff from iPhoto, but they never showed up on the Pre.
As far as I know the Media Sync mode only works with Music, Podcasts and Videos at this time.
RE: photo / iPhoto import?
pmjoe @ 6/4/2009 3:24:56 PM
I meant if you take photos on the Pre, can you import them into iPhoto with the Import button?
RE: photo / iPhoto import?
Ryan @ 6/4/2009 3:32:13 PM
ok, yes. That you can do when it is mounted in USB mode. It stores the photos in a standard DCIM folder.
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Mac support
Jensen_G @ 6/4/2009 5:10:57 AM
I have heartd nothing abouty Mac support in terms of getting all my information from my Apple apps (iCal, Adress book, iPhoto, etc) into the Pre. I do have MobileMe, if that makes any difference. Any word on this?
Also, while I guess it is a large stride that the Pre has iTunes support, this actually means very little to me because 30 of my albums are bought from the iTunes Music Store, the DRM of which the Pre does not support. I could spend $100 to upgrade my music to iTunes plus, but don't really want to . .
RE: Mac support
twrock @ 6/4/2009 5:34:53 AM
Jensen_G wrote:
...30 of my albums are bought from the iTunes Music Store....
DRM ranks right up there with "Windows Genuine Advantage." :-)
Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Mac sync support
Ryan @ 6/4/2009 10:55:37 AM
The Palm Data Transfer Assistant application for Mac OS and Windows, will initially sync over your Appointments, Contacts and Tasks from iCal and Address book. This is only a one time, one way data dump.
For iPhoto, you would have to bring your pictures in manually with the Pre mounted as a USB drive.
I'm sure the good folks at Mark/Space are hard at work on a version of missing sync for the Pre as there is not much in the way of sync, unless you use google/facebook.
RE: Mac support
gulmatan @ 6/4/2009 1:49:40 PM
Two questions come to mind.
First, what are the data transfer options for migrating PalmDesktop PIM data/
Secondly, I'm not all that excited to dump AT&T as my cell provider so, even though, to get a Pre without a Sprint is 6 C notes, will there be a contract-free or even phone-free model of the Pre?
Sharp Wizard 6500> Palm m500> m515> Tungsten T> Zire 71> T|E> T|X
RE: Mac support
BillK @ 6/4/2009 9:32:59 PM
Jensen_G wrote:
I have heartd nothing about Mac support ....
I have heard nothing about Palm's support for their own Pre. That is, with Palm's long-established poor history of supporting their own products, will they now begin to support and provide upgrades to WebOS and to their own apps for the Pre?
Palm's PDAs received near zero support from Palm, in terms of system or software upgrades. That being so, will the early Pre adopters be forever stuck at Vers 1.0. If not, then how long will it take Palm to release Vers 1.1, 1.5, etc, for Gen 1 Pre. Has Palm learn from Apple that ongoing software upgrades are what the customers want.
This issue makes me hold off on getting a Pre!
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Rhapsody
xImtc @ 6/4/2009 5:57:13 AM
Does it work with music subscription services? This is a dealbreaker for me, as I always use my phone as my music player, ever since I had PocketTunes running on my Treo 600.
Once you've used Rhapsody, you can never go back to iTunes and buying music.
RE: Rhapsody
twrock @ 6/4/2009 7:49:26 AM
xImtc wrote:
Once you've used Rhapsody, you can never go back to iTunes and buying music.
Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Rhapsody
LiveFaith @ 6/4/2009 12:34:47 PM
gTunes anyone?
Pat Horne
RE: Rhapsody
xImtc @ 6/9/2009 7:37:49 PM
Touche. But seriously, does it work?
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Review
palmit @ 6/4/2009 10:53:27 AM
Nice review! I think you missed mentioning the camera shutter speed. I saw on another video how fast the shutter speed is while taking multiple pictures. Also I saw that Palm recommends not using batteries made for the Centro or other phones in the Pre.
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PDA
malgeri @ 6/4/2009 12:07:18 PM
Are the calendar, todo, and memo functions just like the palm os. For my use the pda functions are essential, all the rest is nice but not required.
RE: PDA
LiveFaith @ 6/4/2009 12:36:16 PM
No. Apparently better than their 1996 counterparts.
Pat Horne
RE: PDA
hkklife @ 6/4/2009 12:48:31 PM
I have actually been thinking that, Synergy & improved aesthetics silliness, the Pre's PIM functions (especially contacts & memos) fall short in several ways from the classic Palm OS versions.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
RE: PDA
Ryan @ 6/4/2009 1:09:18 PM
I intend to update the review and expand on a few things such as this. The PIM apps are quite similar to their Palm OS counterparts, but there are also a good deal of differences. Many old options have been dropped that you may be used to with the classic apps, while plenty of other things such as all the impressive online capabilities and synergy have been added.
RE: PDA
mikecane @ 6/4/2009 5:18:13 PM
I need to know if repeating events still work the same: Daily, Weekly, Monthly, and even Yearly.
And what about the alarm sounds for these? Is there a selection? And is it yet possible to import sound files to customize event alarms? PLEASE tell me we're still not stuck with the damned BEEP BEEP BEEP of Garnet!
RE: PDA
freakout @ 6/4/2009 8:06:13 PM
watch precentral's PIM video. Calendar event editing is at 5:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUOV9zzxYqQ&feature=player_embedded
The menu offers all the same options as Palm OS (except "Category" and "Private"). Dieter mentions that there are all the usual repeat options, including a "custom" one.
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Thank You
mapenn @ 6/4/2009 1:04:51 PM
Thanks for the nice review, Ryan. It was very helpful and informative.
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Bluetooth
sidamos @ 6/4/2009 2:40:59 PM
What about sending contacts, photos and mp3 with Bluetooth?
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Initial sync
sidamos @ 6/4/2009 2:41:29 PM
Can I transfer calendar and contacts from Palm Deskop with the initial sync? As far as I understood, it does not work for tasks and memos?
RE: Initial sync
Sweet Casey @ 6/4/2009 3:02:51 PM
Great review. Can't wait to get mine Saturday. My only regrets are likely to be it is not a world phone and there is no memory expansion. I also think it would have been cool to include Kleer Wireless headphone technology so we could listen to cd-quality lossless music formats without plugging in the separate Kleer transmitter. Maybe next version.
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Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
pencom @ 6/4/2009 4:27:41 PM
The physical keyboard verses the on screen keyboard issue, i.e., the Pre vs. the iPhone, is probably going to be a moot point. This is really nothing more then a software issue. If Palm is not already working on or contracted out to have this software developed, you can be almost 100% sure there are a number of third party, after market software houses working on this as of this posting. This type of application is not terribly complex. How the on screen keyboard application looks and performs will depend on whether or not Palm wants to do it in-house or just let the market provide the solution. It would be roughly the same for an aftermarket barcode / software application. Apple could, of course, equalize this by offering a physical keyboard, but this does not appear to be in the offering for the immediate future.
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
jca666us @ 6/4/2009 7:09:10 PM
except the pre's screen is smaller than the iphone's, so a virtual keyboard could get pretty cramped.
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
nastebu @ 6/4/2009 7:39:56 PM
plus the thing that makes the virtual keyboard work isn't the little buttons, it's the error correction software. That's not so easy to just crank out.
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
pencom @ 6/5/2009 9:29:25 AM
My point here is "not" that an on screen keyboard is a good thing….I believe it is horrible. There are no data entry systems like this provided by any computer manufacturer in the world. All desktop and laptop computers use tactile style keyboards. There is one exception…..tablet PCs….and we can see how well they are doing. Why? You can type on a normal tactile style keyboard without looking at your fingers. You cannot do that with a screen style keyboard without massive amounts of errors. An on screen keyboard also obscures a great deal of the screen. Palm already provides data entry correction logic with their keyboard. The same logic or a modification of that logic would be used with an on screen keyboard, "if" they choose to offer the option. Choosing an on screen keyboard option as an addition to the physical keyboard would probably be just a PR move to silence critics. This is just an opinion, but I believe that Apple wanted a "clean" look to their device and was willing to go to the on screen keyboard to achieve this, i.e. form over function.
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
nastebu @ 6/5/2009 9:42:58 AM
There are a couple areas where the virtual beats the physical. One is that the keyboard can rotate with the phone, so you can enter data in landscape as well as portrait. Another is changing languages and keyboard types. The iPhone keyboard has a little button that switches between languages so you can zap between Japanese, English, Spanish, etc. very easily. You can pop up Chinese character handwriting recognition, a keyboard with devoted buttons for .com, .org, etc. or a numerical keyboard. It really is excellent.
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
BaalthazaaR @ 6/5/2009 10:52:53 AM
nastebu wrote:
There are a couple areas where the virtual beats the physical. One is that the keyboard can rotate with the phone, so you can enter data in landscape as well as portrait. Another is changing languages and keyboard types. The iPhone keyboard has a little button that switches between languages so you can zap between Japanese, English, Spanish, etc. very easily. You can pop up Chinese character handwriting recognition, a keyboard with devoted buttons for .com, .org, etc. or a numerical keyboard. It really is excellent.
How well does handwriting recognition work with a finger?
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
SeldomVisitor @ 6/5/2009 12:45:13 PM
> How well does handwriting recognition work with a finger?
After this weekend, a question to pose to all those Asian and Asia-based Pre owners.
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
twrock @ 6/5/2009 4:28:31 PM
nastebu wrote:
You can pop up Chinese character handwriting recognition....
This is definitely in the "I've got to see it and touch it myself" realm for me. I'm waiting for at least an Android 2.0 device. By that time, this kind of stuff should be fully worked out and I can do some comparison myself on the actual products (Android phone, iPhone, etc.). Who knows, by that time maybe even Palm will have out a device that is more compelling for me to test.
Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
DarthRepublican @ 6/5/2009 10:24:39 PM
Since the Pre already has a physical keyboard, a virtual keyboard may not see as much use as it would on a device with no physical keyboard. I've seen this first hand with my T-Mobile G1 which recently got the OTA update to Android 1.5 (Cupcake) which has a virtual keyboard. After playing around with it for a while, I quickly went back to the regular physical keyboard for most of my uses. Usually when I do use the G1's virtual keyboard, it's because I only expect to enter a few characters such as when I'm doing a search or entering the URL of a page which is already either bookmarked or which I've visited before. In the latter case, the browser will pull up bookmark and history pages so I can usually get to the page I'm looking for by typing three characters or less. For typing larger amounts of text, I'm pretty comfortable with opening the G1 and typing on a real keyboard.
The bottom line is that the Pre's physical keyboard would have to be pretty terrible for a virtual keyboard to become important. And if the physical keyboard is that bad, I'd rather not get it in the first place....
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
nastebu @ 6/7/2009 12:53:43 AM
Does the pre have multilingual input? I haven't heard anything.
The iPhone Chinese character input does a good job of guessing the character you want. After a stroke or two it pops up some suggestions and usually one is right. I have little experience in this but I guess that's standard? The pre's screen is small but surely theycaj implement something like that.
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
twrock @ 6/7/2009 4:46:07 AM
I've only seen videos of the iPhone character recognition, and it does look amazing. But a 3.5 inch screen is significantly more surface area over 3.1, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Pre didn't function as well in this aspect. (http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-screen-size-comparison)
I also think that it's one thing for a "native writer" to be entering those characters, but quite another thing for someone like me who is simply trying to copy what they are looking at in order to be able to look up the word in a dictionary. I'm quite good with a stylus on my TX. I don't know if I could achieve that accuracy with my finger. I want to "try before I buy".
Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Physical Keyboard vs. on screen keyboad
jca666us @ 6/7/2009 7:19:52 AM
The iphone keyboard takes a few days to get the hang of - I type about as fast on it as my friends do with devices that have "real" keyboards.
It's funny how many people on here bitch about the iphone's lack of a "real" keyboard, yet how many of them use a stylus with graffiti to type words using a stylus?
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Overall, it sounds like ...
mikecane @ 6/4/2009 5:15:47 PM
... it's not completely finished yet. Slow Calendar loading is very disappointing. I have that with the LifeDrive and it irritates the hell out of me because I can remember the speediness of the Palm III, CLIE S320, and Tungsten TE. Really, to have to wait several seconds to get to the calendar is inexcusable.
The Photo app sounds like a real PITA too. Needs less friction.
The sample photos weren't impressive at all. I've taken sample iPhone pics at Apple Stores and emailed them to myself, so I've seen them on my desktop. The iPhone camera has fewer pixels but I can see it simply still takes better photos. The Pre pics all look too grainy and that outdoor one look like it had a PhotoShop effect run on it, making it look painterly. None of the sharpness I expected at all.
Well, I won't be on line Saturday but I will be near a Sprint Store, so I hope to at least get to fondle one for myself.
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MMS?
millydog @ 6/4/2009 8:45:05 PM
The best review that I have read thus far. Others that I have read have stated some incorrect info...such as no app store in one review.
Just wondering if it supports MMS out of the box?
RE: MMS?
Ryan @ 6/4/2009 9:21:20 PM
Thanks. Yes, MMS is supported in the messaging application.
Reply
text memos?
marino88 @ 6/5/2009 12:35:53 AM
Great review.
Does it have a memo application just like the memo in palmOS ? Because from what I've read this far, what pre has is a post-it type memo which limits the amount of text can be typed in.
RE: text memos?
Ryan @ 6/5/2009 10:06:49 AM
Yes, a memos app is on board and is pictured in one of the shots above. It is pretty basic, but functional, and I'm not sure what the size limit on it is.
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Google Talk (Pre)
MsChat @ 6/9/2009 4:16:13 PM
Is there a way to load picture from phone on google talk or do i have to do it from home computer?
Also when downloading free ringtones from a third party site like myxer where are they being downloaded on the pre.
Thanks
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Dropped Calls on Palm Pre?
Tport @ 8/7/2009 8:08:51 AM
Hello. We just bought two palm pre phones last Thursday. We truly love the phone and everything that you can do with it, however, we have been experiencing a lot of issues with low signal strength and dropped calls. We've searched through reviews to see if this is common but can't really find any discussion about people having this issue. Sometimes the EV button for the EVDO highlights and we get full bars for a couple of seconds but then it drops back down to no EVDO and one or two bars. We switched from Embarq to Sprint phones last week when we purchased the pre, however, Embarq uses the Sprint service also so this should have been a seamless change. With our old phones we never had issues with the service dropping. I could be on an hour long conference call with no issue. Since we both are experiencing the same issue, we do not feel that the phones are defective so replacing them with another one probably won't make a difference. We also got a blackberry that same day and can use that at the house without the call dropping.
These are the steps that we have taken to date:
1) Originally the phone was set up to roam all available networks but we changed our setting to use Sprint network only. We had the same issue both ways.
2) We had tech support send us a PRL update. Both phones are at 60652. We also did the network update manually on each phone ourselves in the phone preferences screen. Yesterday, we took the phones back to the store and had the tech there do the PRL and network updates.
3) Yesterday we downloaded and installed the Palm WebOS 1.1 update. We had to do this via a WiFi connection because it would not download due to connection speed.
We are now out of ideas. We don't really want to switch to a different phone so we are hoping that someone can lead us in a direction to make this work!
RE: Dropped Calls on Palm Pre?
hkklife @ 8/7/2009 8:06:10 PM
Every smartphone Palm has ever produced has made for a lousy phone as far as signal strength, call quality, maintaing reliable connections etc.
If you want rock-solid voice performance, get a Motorola or a Nokia dumbphone. The best call performance I've encountered on a modern smartphone would have to be a Motorola Q (the only good thing about that device, actually) and some of the newer BlackBerry models (Tour, Bold etc).
Keeping in mind the plethora of problems that have been reported online, Pre quality does seem to vary wildly from unit to unit. I'd recommend switching your units out for new ones just to see if the problem can be repeated. Of course, this could be a Sprint reception issue. A newer phone might come with the WebOS 1.1 update pre-loaded and have slightly better performance.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
RE: Dropped Calls on Palm Pre?
Gekko @ 8/8/2009 7:17:15 AM
disagree. my Sprint Centro has crystal clear reliable voice quality and coverage.
p.s. posting this poolside from my Centro.
RE: Dropped Calls on Palm Pre?
rpa @ 8/11/2009 3:50:29 PM
gekko: any problems with your Centro freezing on incoming calls? Mine got so bad it was freezing on almost all incoming calls and even on other functions so I mailed it back today.
RE: Dropped Calls on Palm Pre?
Gekko @ 8/11/2009 4:10:31 PM
nope. you probably have a conflicting or resource-hogging third party app installed.
RE: Dropped Calls on Palm Pre?
rpa @ 8/11/2009 8:03:41 PM
That's what I thought until I did a hard reset w/o any 3rd party apps. Worked GREAT for a few months until this last week then all went to hell with every call inducing a freeze. Or even hitting the power button causing the device to lock up. If you do a Google search on Centro freezing you will see a few people are having this problem. Too bad as the Centro is a fine combination of features (when working). Back to the old Moto flip phone now....:-(
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sync function - palm pre not for professionals using outlook
TiffanyM @ 9/30/2009 2:23:14 PM
I have had my palm pre for a week as much as I like the applications, I am heading to return it today. For professionals looking to use the palm pre I would not recommend it. Whoever decided the phone couldn't sync with outlook unless an outside application was purchased and even then would only sync if the computer being used had a wireless card is was missing the boat. There are a ton of users out there like me who will like the functionality but without the ability to sync with a desktop the phone is useless in a work environment. HUGE MISTAKE in my opinion by palm for not providing some sort of an option for professionals who need to use outlook and who have a desktop without a need for a wireless connection.
RE: sync function - palm pre not for professionals using outlook
Gekko @ 9/30/2009 2:49:42 PM
yes - but you can synergize your facebook friends.
Reply
Now I have my own Pre...
freakout @ 11/2/2009 10:06:26 PM
...it just arrived today. Let the games begin!
(posted from Pre... Oooo_ i'm gonna need to update my sig....
Tim
Sometime PIC blogger
Treo 270 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680 -> Centro
I apologise for any and all emoticons in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
hkklife @ 11/2/2009 11:09:01 PM
Congrats!! Please do an "initial impressions" piece when time permits. I will HOPEFULLY have a hands-on fondle report this weekend from the Moto Droid (not buying one yet, just going to fondle it).
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
RE: Now I have my own Pre... Initial Impressions!
Tim Carroll @ 11/2/2009 11:38:33 PM
^^ I look forward to reading it!
Initial thoughts on the Pre:
* I *really* wish I'd shelled out for an international power charger... it's trickle-charging over USB now and is *hopelessly* slow. It would probably help if I stopped playing with it. :) And of course my Touchstone is sitting on the desk, silently mocking me.
*That aside, it feels GREAT in the hand.
*The thin keyboard feels weird. Not bad, just going to take some adjustment. I love that commas are now a dedicated key rather than an option+ key (although I only just realised that when I looked at the typo in my post above, heh.) QWERTZ has tripped me up already, but I'm getting used to it quickly. May not even bother to hack the keyboard at this rate.
*The screen looks amazing...
*...but the touch calibration is a bit dodgy. I seem to keep missing targets, but will improve with practice I'm sure.
* The speaker is way too damn quiet compared to the Centro.
* Phone call quality sounds just like the Centro, as in "better than adequate, not quite amazing."
* Phone signal strength seems weaker - I always got full bars on Centro but am only getting half-strength on the Pre. Of course, the Centro was operating on the 2G network, not the 3G, so I suppose my 3G signal might just be weaker.
* Speaking of 3G, my Optus SIM card works perfectly. No compatibility problems, thank the FSM. MMS, Internet and activation all worked without a hitch.
* LAG. There is definite lag when scrolling in some apps, and in sometimes when responding to touch. Palm really needs to sort out that GPU pronto.
* The camera is a revelation! Shots come out looking *way* better than on the Centro.
* Universal Search kicks ass.
* The USB door is the cheapest, flimsiest-feeling piece of crap I've ever seen. I can just tell I'm gonna wind up breaking the damn thing off.
* Flipping and flicking cards is just plain fun.
* In keeping with the running theme of every Palm device I've ever owned, the headphone jack seems flaky right outta the box. Crackles or only plays the left channel unless it's in exactly right. I hope to God I don't have a repeat of the Treo 680 situation, where it died two weeks after I started using it....
That's it for now... I have this funny feeling I'll be calling in sick to work tomorrow so I can take the time to hack this thing to buggery and back. First step: Doctoring to webOS 1.2.....
Sometime PIC blogger
Treo 270 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 680 --> Centro --> Pre
I apologise for any and all emoticons in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 5:05:21 AM
my review from 6-8-09 - compare and contrast -
my issues -
1. Sound Quality of Phone - Awful hissing and humming in background - especially with headset.
2. i like the Contacts, Calendar PIMs of the old PalmOS. it just works. the webOS PIMs aren't as clean, simple, intuitive, and easy as PalmOS.
3. keyboard - while the keyboard isn't smaller than Centro, it is more uncomfortable to use. why? the end of the keyboard is sharp and it slices at my hand sometimes when i try to type. the sides are sharp too. also, the whole keyboard piece (that bottom of the phone) is thin and hard to hold vs. a candy bar. and the device is not balance properly when open. i always feel like i need two hands to use it. unwieldy and flimsy. "feels like typing into a plastic cup."
4. slider - i'm tired of opening an closing it to get at the keyboard.
5. responsiveness consistency unpredictability of WebOS - it didn't always do what i wanted it to do. i'd press a button and sometimes it would respond and other times not. Centro PalmOS might be simple but it JUST WORKED. WebOS has a mind of its own. OS gets shaky and chuggy and wobbly and it scares me holding my data. it was also unpredictable - many times doing a different thing for the same action.
6. battery life sucked. abysmal. all of this pushing and pulling and synergizing has a price.
7. multitasking - what multitasking? saving and icon to be brought up later is not multitasking! on my old Centro i can listen to STREAMING RADIO like Pockettunes while i surf the web or do email. i can't stream Sprint TV/Radio and do something else on the Pre. havent tried Pandora but i want live radio stations! and i opened up like 5 basic cards (3 were PIM) and it made me shut them down WTF? jumping back and forth from card to card with a hefty elay is not fun multitasking for me.
8. WindowsMedia Streaming - i like bloomberg radio etc. - can't stream it on PRE! Centro had no problem with WMA9 streams!
9. Synergy - i don't like it. i want a CENTRALIZED MERGED location for my data and the ability to move it wherever i want. with Pre/WebOS - in EAS my data is trapped in that EAS work server account. if i leave my employer, i better TRY to back up the Outlook data from the Outlook side in the nick of time. because once i'm disconnected from that server - the data is trapped in the PRE and no way to get it out. i don't like this. with Centro, all i have to do is change the EAS settings to a new server and sync and i'm good to go. can't do that with PRE. it puts my data in a locked proprietary silo that i can't get at.
10. Google Calendar/Contacts - suck.
11. Lack of SD Card - sucks. i want to Auto Backup my data to SD.
12. flimsy/clumsy USB door - yeah i can use touchstone to charge it but what about in the car?
13. No 5 Way - i miss that easy simple navigation. poking around with my finger is inaccurate and clumsy.
14. No "Select All" in Copy/Cut/Paste. sorry that Orange/Shift Key dance doesn't cut it.
15. Gesture area - annoying. holding the device i hit it all the time and do stuff and launch stuff i dont want to.
16. intermittent charging failure is a problem. i can't have a device that sometimes wants to charge and sometimes doesn't. not sure if this is a software or hardware bug but i'm tired of trying to track it down. my phone is my lifeline and i cant have a phone that sometimes wants to charge and sometimes doesn't.
17. Browser - seems great at first but the font is so small - i'm tired of constantly pinching and squeezing.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 12:53:59 PM
Gekko wrote:
my review from 6-8-09 - compare and contrast -
my issues -
1. Sound Quality of Phone - Awful hissing and humming in background - especially with headset.
2. i like the Contacts, Calendar PIMs of the old PalmOS. it just works. the webOS PIMs aren't as clean, simple, intuitive, and easy as PalmOS.
I tried to use the Google Tasks mobile web app for a while but it is too dumb in its mobile version to function as a true task manager. I have been playing with various older PalmOS apps under Classic like Progect but so far I am finding myself using the desktop version of Google Tasks more and more which is a less than optimal thing for me. I have never been happy with any task management software so perhaps I'm just too finicky or perhaps I need to join the Getting Things Done cult.
3. keyboard - while the keyboard isn't smaller than Centro, it is more uncomfortable to use. why? the end of the keyboard is sharp and it slices at my hand sometimes when i try to type. the sides are sharp
too. also, the whole keyboard piece (that bottom of the phone) is thin and hard to hold vs. a candy bar. and the device is not balance properly when open. i always feel like i need two hands to use it. unwieldy and flimsy. "feels like typing into a plastic cup."
4. slider - i'm tired of opening an closing it to get at the keyboard.
5. responsiveness consistency unpredictability of WebOS - it didn't always do what i wanted it to do. i'd press a button and sometimes it would respond and other times not. Centro PalmOS might be simple but it JUST WORKED. WebOS has a mind of its own. OS gets shaky and chuggy and wobbly and it scares me holding my data. it was also unpredictable - many times doing a different thing for the same action.
6. battery life sucked. abysmal. all of this pushing and pulling and synergizing has a price.
7. multitasking - what multitasking? saving and icon to be brought up later is not multitasking! on my old Centro i can listen to STREAMING RADIO like Pockettunes while i surf the web or do email. i can't stream Sprint TV/Radio and do something else on the Pre. havent tried Pandora but i want live radio stations! and i opened up like 5 basic cards (3 were PIM) and it made me shut them down WTF? jumping back and forth from card to card with a hefty elay is not fun multitasking for me.
8. WindowsMedia Streaming - i like bloomberg radio etc. - can't stream it on PRE! Centro had no problem with WMA9 streams!
9. Synergy - i don't like it. i want a CENTRALIZED MERGED location for my data and the ability to move it wherever i want. with Pre/WebOS - in EAS my data is trapped in that EAS work server account. if i leave my employer, i better TRY to back up the Outlook data from the Outlook side in the nick of time. because once i'm disconnected from that server - the data is trapped in the PRE and no way to get it out. i don't like this. with Centro, all i have to do is change the EAS settings to a new server and sync and i'm good to go. can't do that with PRE. it puts my data in a locked proprietary silo that i can't get at.
10. Google Calendar/Contacts - suck.
11. Lack of SD Card - sucks. i want to Auto Backup my data to SD.
12. flimsy/clumsy USB door - yeah i can use touchstone to charge it but what about in the car?
Even if you're not the adventurous type who would wire a Touchstone charger directly into your car's electrical system, you can still just stick to the dash and plug it into the cigarette lighter and the Pre will charge. You might want to keep it tucked in the center console in case you drive like a maniac but otherwise, there is no reason why you couldn't use the Touchstone in your car.
13. No 5 Way - i miss that easy simple navigation. poking around with my finger is inaccurate and clumsy.
14. No "Select All" in Copy/Cut/Paste. sorry that Orange/Shift Key dance doesn't cut it.
15. Gesture area - annoying. holding the device i hit it all the time and do stuff and launch stuff i dont want to.
16. intermittent charging failure is a problem. i can't have a device that sometimes wants to charge and sometimes doesn't. not sure if this is a software or hardware bug but i'm tired of trying to track it down. my phone is my lifeline and i cant have a phone that sometimes wants to charge and sometimes doesn't.
17. Browser - seems great at first but the font is so small - i'm tired of constantly pinching and squeezing.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 1:31:09 PM
it's a dog.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
abosco @ 11/3/2009 1:56:31 PM
I think it's funny that you say Gekko had a defective unit, and then surrender about three quarters of his points to, "Yeah, that bugs me too," or, "I don't use that, so I haven't had that problem."
Sharp keyboard? You big sheila
Tim Carroll @ 11/3/2009 2:01:01 PM
If you define that keyboard edge as sharp, you must have hands softer than a baby Lizardman. :P I'm fine with it.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
SeldomVisitor @ 11/3/2009 2:10:49 PM
If Darth-etc carries around 479 different devices at all times, it is not surprising that the battery life of any single device is relatively "superlative".
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 2:28:39 PM
you little bitch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ4uFUQnSjQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qocp-1HvFc8
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 3:44:10 PM
Motorola Droid Review
http://gizmodo.com/5396168/motorola-droid-review?skyline=true&s=x
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 3:55:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMzeC3TzOrw
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 4:06:24 PM
abosco wrote:
I think it's funny that you say Gekko had a defective unit, and then surrender about three quarters of his points to, "Yeah, that bugs me too," or, "I don't use that, so I haven't had that problem."
Did I? I didn't surrender on his sound quality complaints (this is the reason why I suspect that his phone was defective) which would seem to be the most important complaint about a phone. I certainly didn't surrender to his complaints about the keyboard -- in fact I all but dismissed them as nonsensical. I pointed out that several of his original complaints like the lack of a "Select All" option for copy and paste have been rectified since he complained about them months ago. I pointed out how there is a growing list of software which aims to address his complaints about not being able to move his data off of Palm's cloud. I have no idea where I said anything remotely similar to "I don't use that," but I'm sure that it will be pointed out to me shortly. The fact that I'm willing to admit that something that bothers him bothers me too is more me being honest instead of being a "rah! rah!" cheerleader to his professional sourpuss.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 4:07:05 PM
Gekko wrote:
it's a dog.
woof, woof.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 4:09:59 PM
SeldomVisitor wrote:
If Darth-etc carries around 479 different devices at all times, it is not surprising that the battery life of any single device is relatively "superlative".
We all have our usage patterns. Some of us carry a variety of devices because it makes us more productive. Some of us buy a one device, leave it in a drawer, never use it, and obsess over every detail about the company that sold it to us for more than a decade.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 4:18:23 PM
Gekko wrote:
you little bitch...
Yawn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLxq90xmYUs
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
SeldomVisitor @ 11/3/2009 4:21:51 PM
> We all have our usage patterns...
I suspect you were in "counterattack mode" during your response to my quite neutral and factual observation that, if you use a surfing device and a calculator device and a phone device, then it makes total sense that, say, your phone device will have superlative battery life relative to some other person's do-everything-including-phone device.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
m130fullbutcontent @ 11/3/2009 4:37:42 PM
I haven't been able to try a Pre out yet - but those video's on You-Tube showing some comedian cutting bread & another one cutting cheese with a Palm Pre are very funny :oD. Thanks for posting them..
Re Palm phones always being bad: - my ageing Treo 680 has been excellent call quality wise here in the UK-. Maybe this is partly a network issue ? (Was most impressed when on a first ever trip to your rather impressive Grand Canyon over there in Arizona last July a friend from N.Ireland rang me - and crystal clear was that call..(not that that proves much I realise).Said friend didn't know where I was & when I told him he replied in his 'deadpan' N. Irish accent 'Oh right'. Takes more to impress him clearly.
I wonder how robust these new Pre units will be? My old Treo 680 has been miraculously robust so far - surviving more drops on concrete etc than have smashed several screens/killed previous Palm PDA's I've had previously...It's a bit cracked in corners here & there but still doing fine service...(..Hopefully not famous last words..). Maybe I'll grab a Centro soon while there are some still about. I must admit I don't like the sound of the new webOS PIM'S & lack of desktop sync, attractive though much of the rest of the Pre sounds. Maybe I'll wait for more software & a Pixi , even though the name is a bit dodgy :oD (i.m.h.o. of course).
IIIe>IIIxe>m125>m130>T3>TE>T3>TX / Treo680
Jesus said : 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'
John's Gospel ch. 14 vs 6, NIV
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 4:52:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_cX5X3erjI
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 5:17:17 PM
SeldomVisitor wrote:
> We all have our usage patterns...I suspect you were in "counterattack mode" during your response to my quite neutral and factual observation that, if you use a surfing device and a calculator device and a phone device, then it makes total sense that, say, your phone device will have superlative battery life relative to some other person's do-everything-including-phone device.
I suspected that your "neutral and factual observation" was a sarcastic quip based on a previous post of mine and responded in kind. The more I think about it, it seems more like an attempt to suggest that I'm somehow cheating in a game by using more than one device. Either way, I don't think it matters much since I know how long my Pre lasts.
In the first month or so after buying it, I made a concerted effort to use only the Pre for most of my work and it got about 10 to 12 hours of battery life based on that usage pattern. I wouldn't call that superlative since I still had to buy a second battery and wasn't using that heavily. With heavier usage, my Pre's battery life goes down but that would seem logical wouldn't it? You do a lot of talking and web surfing on your phone and its battery life goes down. I'm not sure that anyone has discovered a Rosetta Stone of technology here.
But with only 8 GB of memory, I quickly found myself going back to my iPod Classic for music and podcasts. Then I discovered My Tether and began using my Pre as a tether for my netbook (a great way to recharge the Pre if you use the USB cable and not as big a drain on the battery as you'd think if you use Bluetooth). Finally, Google updated the Android OS on my T-Mobile G1 to the point where it was much faster and more usable so I went back to using it in some situations. (Like using the G1 as a phone while my Pre is working as a data tether for my laptop.) I don't see why I should apologize for being exposed as a gadget geek while commenting on a gadget geek website.
Today I got a late start and left the house with my Pre's battery at 100% at about 10AM. Since I didn't spend a lot of time in the office today, I didn't have a chance to recharge my Pre and now it's almost 7PM and I'm writing this post with my Pre acting as a tether for my laptop. My battery is down to 21%. That's 9 hours right there with 79% of my battery used up. I imagine that if I had gotten home by 9PM (which is my usual hour to get home) I would have had to pop in my Pre's spare battery. That's not superlative but it's hardly abysmal considering how much I use my Pre. And yes, I do use it a lot despite having a second phone.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 5:35:03 PM
i'm up for a new phone with Sprint in June 2010. my guess is i'll be switching to Android. it offers everything i want and need and like -
1. Sprint
2. Good PIM
3. Real EAS
4. Push Gmail
5. FTP
6. Excel/Word
7. Streaming WMA9
8. Thousands of Apps and more coming
9. OPEN Platform
10. Google-Backed
11. Quality Hardware Vendors
12. Non-Proprietary Universal Standards
13. Flash
14. Eye Candy/Speedy/Efficient OS/GUI
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 5:36:09 PM
15. microSD card.
16. Great Browser
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 6:21:50 PM
Just a quick off topic note. My Palm Pre just asked if it should install version 1.3 of webOS. It's rebooting right now....
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/3/2009 6:27:42 PM
so what do you want? a cookie?
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 8:17:39 PM
DarthRepublican wrote:
Just a quick off topic note. My Palm Pre just asked if it should install version 1.3 of webOS. It's rebooting right now....
Huh, the update completed but my device info still says that I'm at 1.2.1. Weird.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
DarthRepublican @ 11/3/2009 8:18:27 PM
Gekko wrote:
so what do you want? a cookie?
Don Rickles you ain't.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Tim Carroll @ 11/3/2009 8:33:45 PM
Darth:
Just a quick off topic note. My Palm Pre just asked if it should install version 1.3 of webOS.
Heh. After i installed Classic mine asked me last night if I wanted to update and install 1.1.3... which it was already running. Odd.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
ChiA @ 11/4/2009 4:22:07 AM
Gekko said:
9. Synergy - i don't like it. i want a CENTRALIZED MERGED location for my data and the ability to move it wherever i want
...
the data is trapped in the PRE and no way to get it out. i don't like this
Lizardman, have you considered this solution, the Missing Sync for Palm Pre:
http://markspace.com/products/pre/windows/palm-pre-sync-overview.html
It's a possible solution but has anyone here tried it?
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/4/2009 4:51:14 AM
freakout - why don't you pull that Pre out of your ass and finish writing your review already?
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Tim Carroll @ 11/4/2009 4:55:22 AM
^^ LOL. Ewww.
Dude, I've had it for two days. Gimme a week at least... I need to get my hands on a decent video camera too, 'cause I'm going to do some side-by-side comparisons of common tasks on the Pre and the Centro.
Also, I'm hesitant to cast judgement 'cause it always takes time to break them in properly... but battery life so far stinks. Maybe it's 'cause I can't stop playing with it, but I left the house at 9.30 this morning on a full charge and was down to 5% by 5.30.
Sometime PIC blogger
Treo 270 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 680 --> Centro --> Pre
I apologise for any and all emoticons in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/4/2009 5:01:31 AM
>I'm going to do some side-by-side comparisons of common tasks on the Pre and the Centro.
good. maybe go through some of my punch list above.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
nastebu @ 11/4/2009 6:32:00 AM
I'm eager to read the review too, but I'd suggest buying a good case rather than relying on body orifices.
Freak, what's your biggest (positive) surprise so far playing with it?
DROID
Gekko @ 11/5/2009 4:58:02 PM
OK - where are the DROID fondle reports???????????
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Tim Carroll @ 11/7/2009 12:16:01 AM
Freak, what's your biggest (positive) surprise so far playing with it?
Biggest positive surprise? The keyboard. The slider isn't half as annoying as I feared it would be after years of exposed keyboards, and in fact actually a bit roomier to type on than the Centro board. Plus there's something that's just so much fun about sliding it up and down...
Oh, and Palm rejigged the keys too - having @ and commas as dedicated keys and underscores as an option key (rather than an alt-menu thing) is very, very much appreciated in the Internet era.
My only problem is QWERTZ. My thumb-memory is still adjusting, but I think it's going to take a long time...
Oh, and the screen is just gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous. After the Centro it's just amazing. Can't take my eyes off it...
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/7/2009 12:33:15 AM
is it hard to type with one thumb up your ass all the time?
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
freakout @ 11/7/2009 1:01:11 AM
How could I possibly fit a thumb up there with all these gerbils running around? xD
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
SeldomVisitor @ 11/7/2009 4:27:16 AM
Don't use the GPS.
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Gekko @ 11/7/2009 5:06:01 AM
too much information.
so you've had the the pig for about 5 days, what's the verdict?
RE: Now I have my own Pre...
Tim Carroll @ 11/7/2009 12:39:27 PM
SV - why would I not use the GPS? It works fine. (I reckon Rod's problem with his CDMA Pre had something to do with it trying to poll Sprint's servers for data. But it works fine for me on both the O2 and the Sprint firmware.)
Gekko - I like it a lot. Do I like it as much as my Centro? I'm not sure. Still on the fence. Writeup coming next week, with videos...
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