Verizon Preparing to Put Off Pre Plans?

verizon building logo Rumor has it that Verizon is no longer interested in the Palm Pre, if you're inclined to believe this latest rumor du jour from the financially orientated theStreet.com. Citing "people close to the discussions" the site is claiming that Verizon has decided "not to support" the Palm Pre. This comes even after a flurry of comments this summer from VZW execs claiming they would offer the Pre in six months, supposedly after Sprint's US exclusivity ends.

While unsubstantiated rumors like this are nothing new to seasoned Palm watchers, a couple of factors make this article sound particularly suspect. First of all, Palm has recently announced plans for a new public stock offering. Secondly, even more oddball rumors of Nokia buying Palm were also playing heavily on Palm's share price moves this week, so it seems there are a lot forces out there trying to stir up some movement on the stock ticker ahead of the planned, and recently enlarged, common stock sale.

Thanks to SeldomVisitor for the tip.

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Verizon to Palm: Talk to the Hand? Not So Fast

Ryan @ 9/24/2009 6:43:10 PM # Q

Not sure what's really going on here, but it seems a deal with Verizon is very much still part of the Palm equation. I guess we'll see what happens.

Jim Goldman, CNBC - http://bit.ly/101YoB

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That would be the nail in the coffin of this long-time Palm user.

hgoldner @ 9/24/2009 7:13:06 PM # Q
I've used a Palm-based handheld or smartphone since 1998.

If Verizon drops the ball just when I'm ready to roll over to a new handset in January/February, I have two choices:

1. Nurse my Treo 755p until it dies, then use the spare I have secreted away in a drawer against this eventuality until there is a better Verizon product.

2. Get a Blackberry.

I won't return to AT&T, from whence I came, and I won't go to Sprint. Verizon is right to focus on 'the network' (the things are paperweights if they can't connect).

But if they *don't* put something out on Big Red next year, Palm is gone in 18 months.

RE: That would be the nail in the coffin of this long-time Palm user.
hkklife @ 9/24/2009 7:34:54 PM # Q
Harold;

I'm essentially in the same boat as you are, only I've got 13+ years of PIM data (since 1996) and I don't have a spare 755p or a Centro at the moment (but I have two TXs in storage which will work independently of ANY wireless network!).

Right now, I'm seriously considering buying another new or like-new 755p or perhaps even a Centro for cheap "just in case". WinMob 6.5 is terribly underwhelming, WebOS is NOT doing it for me from everything I've seen thus far, and Android remains unproven and lacking in any compelling hardware. I had a BB Storm for a few days and it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had--terrible as a phone, clunky and painful as a PDA.

It's amazing how recent events (alongside Palm's slavish devotion to Sprint & the lack of compelling reasons for the Palm OS faithful to adopt WebOS) are making many long-time users such as ourselves decide to finally jump ship. How ironic is it that we hung in there through the lean early days of OS4, the terrible Palm0ne era, and the final trickle of Garnet devices vs. the iPhone juggernaut, only to be persuaded to jump ship AFTEr Palm launches new a OS & hardware?

So I figure with whatever time my 755p has left + whatever Garnet "spare" I dig up should buy me another 12-18 months on Verizon. That oughta give the industry enough time to see WinMob 7 and some more fleshed out Android offerings finally appear. But I am getting the feeling more and more each day that I've purchased my last Palm device and am going to have to finally move on.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: That would be the nail in the coffin of this long-time Palm user.
CFreymarc @ 9/24/2009 8:14:26 PM # Q
Honestly, I would not be surprised that one of the following happened to keep the Pre off Verizon.

1) Palm execs never got off their high horse and spoke down to Verizon that they had the hottest smartphone on the market. It is about as sad as a burned out 50-something barfly bragging about the night she was elected homecoming queen.

2) The Pre, due to its cheap mechanical engineering, failed the quality control test for minimal durability. That sharp edge around the keyboard has been claimed to cut a few fingers but I can't confirm that.

3) This exclusive cloud computing and over the air sync'ing that they are forcing on the WebOS users is a bandwidth hog on Verizon's network. Verizon is the most critical on network performance to the point of on the fly throttling of cell phone transmission considering the local cell traffic. If Palm doesn't have those facilities in the cellular chip set, they screwed themselves again.

Short term gain, long term loss by being anal about the BOM spreadsheet again boys!


RE: That would be the nail in the coffin of this long-time Palm user.
bhartman34 @ 9/24/2009 10:35:51 PM # Q
2) The Pre, due to its cheap mechanical engineering, failed the quality control test for minimal durability. That sharp edge around the keyboard has been claimed to cut a few fingers but I can't confirm that.

There may be other reasons that the Pre would fail a durability test. I'm sure the build quality varies somewhat. I can't see the keyboard edge cutting anything firmer than butter, though. And even then, only at room temperature. It's just not that sharp.

I can see Verizon having issues with the bandwidth requirements for the phone. It's been obvious for years that Verizon values their network quite a bit more than their phones. The Storm was the most advanced phone released on Verizon, and that was more impressive on paper than in person.

I'm not convinced that this rumor is true, though. I think it's a little premature to be writing the obit for the deal.

RE: That would be the nail in the coffin of this long-time Palm user.
LiveFaith @ 9/25/2009 7:36:32 AM # Q
I can see build quality being an issue. The Pre feels cheap and fragile almost like a toy.
Pat Horne
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This Story Sounds Familiar

DarthRepublican @ 9/24/2009 8:25:34 PM # Q
Where have I heard it before?

Oh now I remember.

http://bit.ly/N5fD4
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/13/jon_stewart_exposes_apple_stock_manipulation.html

This is the way the game is played kiddies. Palm is playing with the big boys now.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

RE: This Story Sounds Familiar
LiveFaith @ 9/25/2009 7:40:16 AM # Q
... and they arrested Madoff for a ponzi scheme! Gotta love it.
Pat Horne
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Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming

bhartman34 @ 9/25/2009 8:41:55 PM # Q
Here's the story from PreCentral:

http://tinyurl.com/ya5xzq4

RE: Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming
Tim Carroll @ 9/25/2009 9:35:44 PM # Q
oi! no linking to the competition! :P

my post (and other news items, including a nice little scoop) is sitting in the PIC news queue, looking all lonely and sad. Damn Ryan and his timezones which totally conflict with mine...

i'll post here in the meantime, 'cause I'm a bit bored:

*************************************

Sites Claim Verizon Pre Confirmed

The headline says it all. We have two separate sites bringing us this news, putting paid to TheStreet's earlier, blatant attempt at stock manipulation. First, The Boy Genius Report is saying that they've "confirmed" Verizon Wireless will indeed be selling the Pre, There's no other meat to BGR's post: just this alleged confirmation from an anonymous tipster. Second is the E-Commerce Times, who have actually have a Verizon exec on record. Jim Gerace, executive director of media relations, says that Verizon will "offer the smartphone in January as planned".


You don't have to be a genius to see that Verizon's smartphone line-up stinks, and that in the absence of a CDMA version of that other smartphone, the Pre is an obvious catch for the USA's biggest carrier. Makes you wonder if anyone took TheStreet seriously.

Sometime PIC blogger
Treo 270 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 680 --> Centro
I apologise for any and all emoticons in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.

RE: Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming
bhartman34 @ 9/26/2009 6:43:57 AM # Q
Tim Carroll wrote:
oi! no linking to the competition! :P

Sorry about that. :) I didn't realize it was verbotten. :)

RE: Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming
Tim Carroll @ 9/26/2009 7:01:08 AM # Q
lol. It's punishable by flogging.

(tim hopes bhartman doesn't notice how often he links to PreCentral himself...)

What did Verizon really confirm?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/26/2009 11:47:23 AM # Q
That's a serious question.

From what I've read, that Media guy at Verizon was fairly wishy-washy in what he was "confirming". It smells to THIS reader almost like a "Treo Pro"-like "carry".

To paraphrase in the way =I= read the stories:

== "Yes, we're going to carry the Palm Pre however we'll not be subsidizing
== it and it will be supported by Palm, not us."

So, is that TheStreet.com article actually incorrect or, heaven forbid!, was it actually the Me-Too Media =interpretation= of what that TheStreet.com article said that was wrong?

Here's what TheStreet.com =really= said:

== "...But people close to the discussions say Verizon has decided
== not to support the Pre..."
==
== "...Reached for comment on Verizon, a Palm representative says
== the company has never named Verizon as one of its partners..."
==
== "...Sources did say that Verizon could be more delicate about the
== decision and order just a small amount of Pre phones with no intention
== of lending much marketing support..."

I think we're witnessing another Treo Pro Affair - no kidding.

RE: Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming
bhartman34 @ 9/26/2009 12:41:57 PM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
That's a serious question.

From what I've read, that Media guy at Verizon was fairly wishy-washy in what he was "confirming". It smells to THIS reader almost like a "Treo Pro"-like "carry".

To paraphrase in the way =I= read the stories:

== "Yes, we're going to carry the Palm Pre however we'll not be subsidizing
== it and it will be supported by Palm, not us."

So, is that TheStreet.com article actually incorrect or, heaven forbid!, was it actually the Me-Too Media =interpretation= of what that TheStreet.com article said that was wrong?

Here's what TheStreet.com =really= said:

== "...But people close to the discussions say Verizon has decided
== not to support the Pre..."
==
== "...Reached for comment on Verizon, a Palm representative says
== the company has never named Verizon as one of its partners..."
==
== "...Sources did say that Verizon could be more delicate about the
== decision and order just a small amount of Pre phones with no intention
== of lending much marketing support..."

I think we're witnessing another Treo Pro Affair - no kidding.

SV:

Monitz was remarkably clear as to what he meant. From the lead paragraph:


Pre phone isn't making the cut at Verizon (VZ Quote).

The Pre, Palm's premier touch-screen smartphone, which has been an exclusive offering this year at Sprint (S Quote), had been scheduled to arrive at Verizon in January. But people close to the discussions say Verizon has decided not to support the Pre.

Note the contrast in the bolded passage. The clear intention of the article is to suggest that the Pre won't arrive on Verizon -- subsidized or not.

In addition, all of the factors listed by Monitz are reasons Verizon wouldn't carry the Pre, not reasons they wouldn't subsidize it.

And finally, carrying the Pre without subsidizing it would just be idiotic. That is, if they want to sell more than five of them. Who in their right mind would buy a locked phone for as much as an unlocked phone (which is what anyone buying an unsubsidized Verizon Pre would be doing, under that scenario)? There's no reason on God's green Earth for Palm to make that kind of deal with Verizon, because Palm actually wants to sell the Pre. There certainly may be talks about how much of the price of the Pre will be subsidized by Verizon (e.g., MIR vs. not, etc.), but if Verizon just plain didn't subsidize the Pre, Palm would have no reason to put it on Verizon's network.

I think the two most reasonable conclusions to draw are either:

1) TheStreet simply got it wrong.
2) Verizon is lying about whether or not they'll carry the Pre.
3) One side or the other fed the rumor to TheStreet as a negotiation ploy.

Which of those do you think is more likely? I find it very unlikely that Verizon would lie about this issue, considering how that makes them look if they then don't carry it. And it seems very likely that Verizon would float these kinds of rumors about not carrying the Pre, to pressure Palm to agree to things like the subversion of the App Catalog.

And it looks like Verizon blinked first.

RE: Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming
SeldomVisitor @ 9/26/2009 1:05:33 PM # Q
Are you familiar with the Treo Pro history?

RE: Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming
bhartman34 @ 9/26/2009 6:18:56 PM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
Are you familiar with the Treo Pro history?

I know that it was released on Alltel, which Verizon sucked up, therefore some Verizon customers ending up with Treo Pros on Verizon.

I'm familiar with what you're referring to as a "Treo Pro-like 'carry'", if that's what you're asking. It doesn't seem to me (from what I've been able to read) that the Treo Pro situation was at all unusual on Alltel. There were a variety of price points available, depending on whether you wanted it unlocked, or w/ a two year contract, etc.

How does that relate to Verizon not subsidizing the Pre? (I can certainly believe that they won't support the Pre. AT&T didn't support the Centro, either. If you had any problems, you turn to Palm.)

Again, Monitz was fairly explicit in the article. It might be true that Verizon has some other scheme up its sleeve, but that's not what the article addresses.

RE: Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming
sbono13 @ 9/27/2009 2:13:38 AM # Q
SV, are you referring to the "saga" of the Treo Pro on AT&T, where it's been confirmed to work on the network, but is not offered through AT&T? Couple of points: 1) you can out any unlocked GSM device on AT&T as long as the bands are supported, so AT&T's certification is a pretty meaningless endorsement. 2) it doesn't mean that AT&T "carries" the Treo Pro.

I don't see how Treo Pro is *carried* by either Verizon or AT&T. You have come up with an elaborate scenario by which both articles could be right, but it's far easier for me to believe that either one article or the other is simply wrong.

RE: Verizon Has Confirmed That the Pre is Still Coming
SeldomVisitor @ 9/27/2009 3:48:15 AM # Q
There also was some device - I'll guess and say "Treo 650" - that actually was listed on T-mobile's site but, when you clicked on the Buy link, you got taken over to Palm's retail web site. That is, it wasn't being offered by T-Mobile itself. That was a strange one. I believe, BTW, it was the last Palm device "offered" by T-Mobile.

Anywho, the words used by the Verizon folks, anonymous and overt, are ... unusual. We'll have to see how this develops.

[somewhere, I'm not sure where, I've posted way in the early history of the Pre "Why WOULD Verizon carry this THAT late with all the OTHER phones that are and will be coming out?". Maybe Verizon is thinking so, too.]


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