Handspring to Announce Visor Pro and Neo

Handspring is going to announce on Monday two new Visor models. The Visor Pro is a mid-range model and will be the first ever to ship with 16 MB of RAM. It will cost $300. The Visor Neo is a low-end model that will have 8 MB of RAM and come in three possible casing colors. It will be $200.

Both of these new handhelds have monochrome screens, run the 33 MHz Dragonball VZ processor, and have regular Springboard slots.

They both have backlit monochrome screens, supporting 4-bit grayscale for 16 shades of gray. This is the same screen that is on the Visor Platinum.

The Neo comes in one of three possible new semi-transparent colors: smoke, red, and blue. The Pro comes in a conservative silver. They can use the same peripherals as the other Visor models, except ones specifically designed for the Edge.

The Pro has a rechargeable lithium ion battery while the Neo runs on two AAAs. As would be expected, the Pro is charged in its cradle. Unlike the identically priced Sony S320, the Neo comes with a cradle.

Surprisingly, both of these models run Palm OS 3.5, not the latest, OS 4. Like all Handspring models, neither has Flash ROM, which means that they can't be upgraded at a later date.

They offer the Fast Lookup feature, first introduced with Visor Edge, so that users can access contact information more quickly and with one hand using the application buttons instead of the stylus.

Both Visor Pro and Neo are will be available in the United States, Canada, Europe, and Asia on Monday. Colors, models, pricing and availability may vary in each country.

Handspring intends to discontinue the Platinum in the near future while the Deluxe should still be available through the end of the year.

This is not a rumor; this information comes from Handspring itself. While it had not intended to say anything about these models until Monday, the Pro and Neo were already shipped to stores to be ready for the release and some were mistakenly placed on shelves. When Handspring got wind that stories were starting to appear on them, it went ahead and released this information to websites with which it has a good relationship, including this one.

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Same old crap, new bucket.

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:17:09 PM #
Just what the world needs: more over-priced, monochrome Visors.

RE: Very Competetive
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:21:16 PM #
The Neo is the exact same price as the SONY 320, has the same amount of memory and comes with a cradle. The 320 just has a cord. So how is it over-priced?

The Pro has twice as much RAM as any Palm ever had and its only $300. That's $30 less than the m500 and the Pro is better. What's over-priced about that?

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:25:56 PM #
and i suppose you would say that 16 megs ram is the same old crap?

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:27:04 PM #
I still wish you could upgrade the OS but I guess it's not that big of a deal.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:31:09 PM #
How many people have used 8 megs? Or 4? The whole world wants a color wireless device and Handspring says, "Sure, it's grey-scale, but, look at ALL THAT MEMORY!" Compaq gets it: they are DUMPING their monochrome devices. Handspring has another flop. There is NOTHING you can do with these devices that you couldn't do with the original Visor from 1999. They are basically unchanged. What makes Handspring think they're going to sell? Because they're "new"?

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:45:11 PM #
I read in the WSJ last week that HandSpring has three times the sales of Compaq. Maybe its Compaq that doesn't get it.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:50:23 PM #
Compaq surpassed Handspring in PDA revenues. That's what counts.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:54:46 PM #
No...that's not what counts. Profits are what counts.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:56:33 PM #
And Handspring has yet to turn one. These devices won't change that.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 11:53:01 PM #
as has been stated (many) times before on these boards, compaq brings in more revenues selling handhelds, but since they cost twice what a mid-range visor costs, actual numbers of handhelds sold is key to evaluate who is doing more business.
plus, people need to remember that these handhelds have different markets. some people want high-resolution kick-ass color screens, other people just want someplace to keep their appointments and contacts (my boss, for example. she has an m100, used to have a IIIx), and still others (like me) want what is essentially a reference book, and need lots of memory for that.
speaking of memory, i have a IIIxe, and have to (fairly frequently) sacrifice documents and large applications that i don't use frequently to make room for more stuff. i use my pda as a mobile filing cabinet, so i can have important information on hand when necessary, and i've found i can't do that and keep all the functionality i want application-wise. so, i'd adore a 16mb handheld. or an expandable one, which is why my next handheld will probably be an m505, but that's not set in stone. and don't take that to mean that i think grayscale handhelds are useless, it's just that i'm a little neurotic, and would love to be able to organize things in datebk4 by color, not just icon.

still having trouble with that posting-while-logged-in thing (ryan, help?).
- kezza

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 9:24:24 AM #
these two new models are just crap.

Let's compare: S320 Vs NEO (basically, NEO = Platinum) Vs PRO

Price: $199 Vs $199 Vs $299 (S320 and NEO draw)
Memory: 8Mb Vs 8Mb Vs 16Mb (PRO wins)
CPU: exactly the same 33Mhz CPU.
Flash MEM: 4Mb Vs No Vs No (S320 wins)
External Memory: Memory stick is just cheaper and more convienent than those spring board add ons!
Features: JogDial Vs Fast Find (JogDial is simply better)
OS: 4.0 (upgradable) Vs 3.5 (non upgradable)
Stylish: S320 just looks better
Size: S320 is probably smaller because it uses memory stick instead of Springboard module.


S320 was released a month ago, why buy the new handspring model?


Springboard vs. Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 9:44:01 AM #
Let's continue the comparison.

Current uses for Memory Stick:
Storage

Current uses for Springboard:
Storage
Wireless networking
Digital camera
Mobile phone
Presenter-to-Go
Use CF or SmartMedia
ETC

In some areas, Sony and Palm are still playing catch-up to Handspring. Putting a memory Springboard in adds the space to RAM. There's no ****ing around with software written by some guy in Japan that sort of runs programs from the card. It just works. PowerRun is trying to do the same thing Springboards have been able to do for years.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 10:54:54 AM #
I can't understand anyone NOT having used up 8 mb, much less 4 MB. I need 16 mb now and I think the majority of users will too before very long.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 2:26:57 PM #
It's the same old crap, especially in comparison to the Sony PEG-S320, because it's still a big, blocky, poorly manufactured VISOR. I owned the Visor Deluxe for awhile and was so very happy to be rid of it (via Best Buy upgrade plan) when the Sony came out. With Sony, gone are the crooked screen, bulky cheez-casing, lousy display. Sony knows how to manufacture electronic devices -- I went through three Visor Deluxe's before I finally got one with a screen that was only "mildly" crooked. Nice quality control, Handspring. Long Live Sony!

16MB of Memory, how pathetic!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 3:09:40 PM #
I'm using 256MB of CF in addition to 32MB of RAM on Ipaq. The CF costs around $100 only.

I don't know what you can do with 16MB of memory. But I'll tell you what I do with 256MB of CF:

1) 7 reference dictionary, drug interaction database, medical consultation, translantion dictionaries, etc

2) Street-level maps of entire california

3) Directory information, phone books of various stores.

4) 80% of application programs ran straight from CF

5) MP3 and Video Clips

6) Word documents

The list goes on.

RE: Expensive
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 4:56:08 PM #
Once you add the $650 of the iPaq to the equation, you have a solution that costs $350 more than the Visor Pro. Thats more than double. You can have lots of storage on any platform if cost is no object.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 6:51:27 PM #
This just shows how little Mr. "16MB of Memory, how pathetic!" knows. For example, take Skyscape's DrDrugs program for doctors.
"MEMORY REQUIREMENTS
Palm® OS: 1.9 MB
Windows® CE / Pocket PC: 5.4 MB"
As you can see, the Pocket PC is obviously superior because the same program takes nearly 3 times the room!
So take that same Handspring and add the spring board adapter or take a HandEra and add the 1GB mircodrive for $330. There are options on the PalmOS side too.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 11:07:02 PM #
Except you can't put Epocrates on CF, and good luck trying to run programs on CF, and imposssible to edit files stored on your CF...this is what you get with Palm OS PDAs.

Color Ipaq is expensive because it's in an entirely different class from Visor. If you compare it to the most expensive model of Sony, you're more or less making an equal comparison. But to get 256MB of Memory Stick, well, try your luck. I don't think it exists yet. 128MB of SD used in Palm costs $180 at least. So use your brain or your Palm, $180 for 128MB of SD, $100 for 256MB of CF, do the math.

On the other hand, if you wanna save money and still get a great machine capable of everything Palm does, plus built-in MP3 player, infinite expansion capability supported by standard CF and PCMCIA industries, then consider black and white Ipaq. You can get it for $99.

Now can we tell Handspring is going to disappear pretty soon? Yes. It's funny how people argue Handspring is trying to dominate low-end Palm market. Well, who's going to spend $100 on a low-end palm, then spend $200 on buying an expensive handspring springboard. The fact is, average users will never spend money on external springboard if they just need a cheap organizer. People who will use PDA like a compact-size notebook PC will look for something more powerful, more capable, more expandable with industry-supported standard...Handspring will never get to that point.

Handspring recently has moved to PDA/Wireless Phone market. In another words, they already gave up on their pure PDA organizer running on Palm. Instead, they will use Palm OS to build a communication device, not an electronic organizer, not a powerful compact-size laptop. That spells the end of a large Palm device company.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 11:29:16 PM #
I have 128MB and I paid less than $110. The price is really coming down in MS. I think it's a matter of time before CF will eventually disappear. Looks like it's going to be a battle between MS and SD.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 11:32:59 PM #
Good to know that. $110 for 128MB of MS. That's not bad. Sony is doing something to prolong its product life. It probably has the most competitive Palm devices out there.

The problem though, when you spend $300 or above to buy a PDA, you don't want to be limited with expansion options. CF is the industry-standard. How many GPS module can you find for SD or MS? There are at least 7 or 8 for CF. Can you use Sony or Palm PDA with Zip drive, Jazz drive, CDRom? No. But possible with PocketPC.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 11:40:40 PM #
I have a couple of corrections that I would like to point out about previous posts in this thread. First of all only a few springboards cost $200 or more and these springboards are the ones that connect you to a wireless LAN or convert your visor into a cell phone. A vast majority of the springboards available can be bought for under $100.

Second of all, bigger programs are not necessarily better. The fact that the WindozeCE program is bigger does not mean that it is "far superior." All that proves is that Microsoft's compiler for CE sucks. Why do you think Palm companies are just starting to come out with 16MB products while it's standard on CE devices. Microsoft isn't exactly known for small executables or efficiency. Take XP for instance... is it me or does it look like a Fisher Price toy? It requires 64MB (very slow) but recommends 128MB. This is the Microsoft pholosophy: "Upgrade to the newest, fastest hardware available, and we'll make it look like nothing actually happend."

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 12:20:07 AM #
The size of memory does not determine the quality of the program. Just because the PocketPC programs in general are larger than Palm doesn't mean they're better. However, it does NOT mean smaller Palm software are more superior either.

The bottom line is, with large hardware memory space, you can save more data. That's the bottom line. I used to use Mapopolis for Palm as a mapping software. Its LA county map is around 5MB, about the same size as the one on PocketPC. However, the one for PocketPC is in color. That makes a big difference.

I don't care how big the program is, as long as 1)they work well. Oh, boy, programs for PocketPC works like charm, never had to hard-reset once in 2 months. 2)I have enough hardware memory space to store thse programs. 3)the memory option is cheap.

If you think you can store more data on a 128MB space than on my 256MB. You're cheating yourself. And now, let's drop the topic of 16MB, shall we?

As far as springboard modules, give us a couple of products that are under $100. Besides, do you know how much CF ethernet/modem cost? $40. Any more questions?



RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 12:57:44 AM #
PalmInfoCenter just did a review on the "Beat Plus" springboard a couple of weeks ago. It is available for $79.95. You probably haven't read that since you only come here to talk up the PocketPC and not to read the articles. Typical Microsoft user...

Springboards under $100:

Handspring Modem Springboard - $39.99 at Amazon.com
Handspring VisorPhone (cell phone) - $49.99 at http://www.handspring.com/products/visorphone/index.jhtml">Handspring
OmniRemote Universal Remote Control - $59.95
StepKeeper Pedometer - $49.95
Merriam-Webster Dictionary - $49.95
Star Trek BookPak - $45.50
FlashPlus Compact Flash Module - $49.90 (plug standard CF cards into this one)
MemPlug CF Module - $49.95 (CF cards go in this one too)
MemPluc Smart Media Module - $49.95 (SM cards go in this one)
Memory Access (Memory, Vibrating and LED Alarms) - $44.50
dbNow Deluxe Module - $49.99
MyVox Voice Recorder - $69.95

These are just the highlights there's quite a few others for under $100. Also, two bluetooth modules have been announced (by different companies). Do PocketPCs support bluetooth? If they do it's probably Microsoft's own proprietary protocal rather than the accepted standard. It's for this same reason that you can't beam data from a PocketPC to a Palm device? Palm follows the IrDA standard, Microsoft follows their own standard...

"LA county map is around 5MB, about the same size as the one on PocketPC"

That's really nice that a map is the same size on both platforms, I would expect it to be since it's just raw data and not a compiled execuatable. Give me one instance where a PocketPC PROGRAM was actually smaller than a Palm program. Ain't gonna happen with how sloppy Microsoft is with memory usage.

Face it, your just a tool of Microcrap when you post all of this stuff about WindozeCE devices. Stop being a pest on a Palm site and go find a PPC site instead.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 2:34:25 AM #
First of all, if you think you own this website, or this particular topic, you might just put your name and signature on it. Until then, you have no right to criticize what other people think about your pathetic product. And if you think others' opinion is annoying or evening too harsh, well, that's life. Present your fact, and we'll argue about it. You don't own anything but your words. So be intelligent with what you said.

Now let's look at your SpringBoard for less than $100,

>Handspring Modem Springboard - $39.99 at Amazon.com

CF Modem about the same price

>Handspring VisorPhone (cell phone) - $49.99 at http://www.handspring.com/products/visorphone/index.jhtml"

Nothing for PocketPC yet. But guess why HS is dumping VisorPhone for $0?

>Handspring
OmniRemote Universal Remote Control - $59.95

Universal Remote Software, ~$10

>StepKeeper Pedometer - $49.95

Is this a game? And they put it on a separate module? Is there any more intelligent way of making money? So lame...Don't even start comparing games on Palm and PocketPC...

>Merriam-Webster Dictionary - $49.95

Oxford Dictionary - $19

>Star Trek BookPak - $45.50
FlashPlus Compact Flash Module - $49.90 (plug standard CF cards into this one)
MemPlug CF Module - $49.95 (CF cards go in this one too)
MemPluc Smart Media Module - $49.95 (SM cards go in this one)

Why do you need all these adapter modules if your intention is to use CF or SM?

>Memory Access (Memory, Vibrating and LED Alarms) - $44.50

Another software on HS module? Free with Ipaq.

>dbNow Deluxe Module - $49.99

Alright, stop putting software on module. It's not only a rip-off, also extremely inconvenient to switch between different modules for different softwares.

>MyVox Voice Recorder - $69.95

Built-in in the PocketPC. PocketPC 2002 has built-in voice recoginition. It will be a built-in feature for new ipaq.

Now bluetooth? New Ipaq 38xx will have bluetooth built-in.

Beam between Palm and PocketPC? Try Peacepro! It works wonder.

Actually, if Palm OS has a better product, I would be posting in PocketPC forum, too. The point is to let peopole know what's out there.



RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 2:34:25 AM #
First of all, if you think you own this website, or this particular topic, you might just put your name and signature on it. Until then, you have no right to criticize what other people think about your pathetic product. And if you think others' opinion is annoying or evening too harsh, well, that's life. Present your fact, and we'll argue about it. You don't own anything but your words. So be intelligent with what you said.

Now let's look at your SpringBoard for less than $100,

>Handspring Modem Springboard - $39.99 at Amazon.com

CF Modem about the same price

>Handspring VisorPhone (cell phone) - $49.99 at http://www.handspring.com/products/visorphone/index.jhtml"

Nothing for PocketPC yet. But guess why HS is dumping VisorPhone for $0?

>Handspring
OmniRemote Universal Remote Control - $59.95

Universal Remote Software, ~$10

>StepKeeper Pedometer - $49.95

Is this a game? And they put it on a separate module? Is there any more intelligent way of making money? So lame...Don't even start comparing games on Palm and PocketPC...

>Merriam-Webster Dictionary - $49.95

Oxford Dictionary - $19

>Star Trek BookPak - $45.50
FlashPlus Compact Flash Module - $49.90 (plug standard CF cards into this one)
MemPlug CF Module - $49.95 (CF cards go in this one too)
MemPluc Smart Media Module - $49.95 (SM cards go in this one)

Why do you need all these adapter modules if your intention is to use CF or SM?

>Memory Access (Memory, Vibrating and LED Alarms) - $44.50

Another software on HS module? Free with Ipaq.

>dbNow Deluxe Module - $49.99

Alright, stop putting software on module. It's not only a rip-off, also extremely inconvenient to switch between different modules for different softwares.

>MyVox Voice Recorder - $69.95

Built-in in the PocketPC. PocketPC 2002 has built-in voice recoginition. It will be a built-in feature for new ipaq.

Now bluetooth? New Ipaq 38xx will have bluetooth built-in.

Beam between Palm and PocketPC? Try Peacepro! It works wonder.

Actually, if Palm OS has a better product, I would be posting in PocketPC forum, too. The point is to let peopole know what's out there.



RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 2:59:51 AM #
Sorry, accidently present the post key twice. My apology.

Springboards actually are useful
skoty @ 9/15/2001 3:01:36 AM #
Maybe you should provide a link to these new features you keep mentioning that are comming out with the new Ipaq and Pocket PC 2002. How about prices? Are they the same as a desktop? A car?

">StepKeeper Pedometer - $49.95
Is this a game?And they put it on a separate module? Is there any more intelligent way of making money? So lame..."

Actually, a pedometer counts your steps while you jog or walk. This module I believe comes with software to count your calories and such.

"OmniRemote Universal Remote Control - $59.95
Universal Remote Software, ~$10"

Yeah, I've seen this software. Have you read the reviews? It doesn't work with many brands of TV's. I haven't heard a complaint yet with OmniRemote. And, the springboard will go alot further than 3 feet. How far does that IR port go on your IPAQ? This again illustrates the versatility of a springboard.

"Why do you need all these adapter modules if your intention is to use CF or SM?"

The point is that you're not limited to what Microsoft or Compaq thinks you'll want or need. You can use whatever media you want.

"But guess why HS is dumping VisorPhone for $0?"

As if you knew. HS is "dumping" VisorPhone because Sprint PCS just came out with a new springboard phone that will implement the new 3G technology in 2002 and Handspring wants to get rid of it's "dated" inventory while it still can. Read and learn:

http://www.handspring.com/company/pr59.jhtml

"Now bluetooth? New Ipaq 38xx will have bluetooth built-in. "

I searched Google and found no relavent links for "Ipaq 38xx" Please provide me with the source of your knowledge.

"Beam between Palm and PocketPC? Try Peacepro! It works wonder."

It's a wonder that you have to use 3rd party software to get WindowsCE to follow the IrDA standard. Will 3rd party software also be necessary for your bluetooth IPAQ to talk to other bluetooth devices?

Is PocketPC 2002 comming with the same nifty feature that Windows XP is comming with? The one where you have to tell Microsoft everything about yourself and your computer before you can actually use it?

The only reason that I continue to respond to your praise of the PocketPC and your continual bashing of anything Palm is because this was an article about the new line of Handspring products, not PocketPC products. PocketPC is a Microsoft product and therefore uses more memory, processor power, battery power, and (essentially) money, to do the same thing that a PalmOS device does.

As I said in my previous post, there are many other springboards available. See for yourself:

http://www.handspring.com/products/sbm_all.jhtml

Aside from memory and modems, give us another example of how the IPAQ is infinately expandable...

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 4:29:57 AM #
This is exactly the point of this discussion: it shows how little you know about PocketPC and the innovative industry of PocketPC.

Yes. This is not about PocketPC. This is about how pathetic new HS models are. It doesn't even compare to old Palms.

By the way, when you have to use HS adapter to use industry-standard CF, you call yourself using whatever media? How ironic!

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
ahecht @ 9/15/2001 7:41:37 AM #
although i in no way support PPC, I do have to admit that PPC 2002 can beam to and recieve IR from Palm OS devices.

Stumpted?
skoty @ 9/15/2001 9:55:20 AM #
Well, I called you on your info, and you came back with petty gripes. Either your feaverishly looking for links to your facts or you really were bluffing your info.

"This is exactly the point of this discussion: it shows how little you know about PocketPC and the innovative industry of PocketPC."

Actually if anyone takes the time to read this whole thread, the fact that you didn't/can't respond to my call on your facts will be illustrated. The last line of my previous post asked you to give me an example of how infinately expandable the PocketPC is beyond the springboard. Where's my examples? Expanding Modems and memory is not infinatley expanding, it's buzzword jockying. The words "infinately expandable" sell products to Microsoft zombies/users. You asked for springboards under $100 and I gave you dozen.

"By the way, when you have to use HS adapter to use industry-standard CF, you call yourself using whatever media? How ironic! "

Since when is CF industry-standard? Because you or some magazine writer stamped it the "industry-standard"? How closed minded. This again illustrates what infinately expandable really means. It means you can use the same expansion slot, the springboard slot, with next year's industry standard Smart Media, or the year after that's new memory media that everyone like you will embrace as the "industry standard".

Right now IrDA is the "industry standard" for passing data between PDAs. If the press has their way, there'll be a big fight between IrDA and Bluetooth to see who's the next "industry standard." Since I own a Handspring, I don't care who wins. If Bluetooth becomes popular, I can just buy the new "industry-standard" springboard and continue using the PDA I've been using for over a year now.

So when PocketPC 2002 comes out with Bluetooth support, will they have some way to plug in a Bluetooth transceiver? Probably not. And if they do it'll probably be made by Microsoft and therefor only work with products made by Microsoft partners who can work with Microsoft's version of Bluetooth.

Looks like your going to have to fork out another $450 for your "superior" product when that happens.

This is a public forum, if your going to just be touting unbased facts about the oh-so-wonderful PocketPC do it in a PocketPC support group. If you think you can back it up here's a list of the questions/requests that remain unansered:

-Show me an example of how infinately expandable the IPAQ is beyond memory and modems.

-Show me where you read that the new PocketPC is going to support bluetooth.

-How much will this new IPAQ that supports Bluetooth cost?

-Will you have to buy a new one or will your old one truley expand?

If you post again with more feeble pokes at HS, and not backing up what you've said previously, the debate is over. Those reading this thread can come to their own conclusions about what the terms "infinatley expandable" and "industry standard" mean to them.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 1:20:36 PM #
Alright, I'll spend the time on doing the research for you. But I thought one should try to understand your oppponent first before you make an argument. At least I visit Palm websites for any update information. When was last time you read about PocketPC?

At least, I agree with your point. Let the fact speak for itself.


>-Show me an example of how infinately expandable the IPAQ is beyond memory and modems.

http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/pocketpc/bguide/features/expandable.asp?id=1


An extreme of this "infinte expandibiliy" is how you can use almosst every SCSI-devices with your Ipaq. CD-Rom, Zip, Jazz, CD-R/RW. All you need is a Adaptec PCMCIA SCSI card. How about 20GB of portable harddrive for Ipaq?

I used a Palm before, and I switched to PocketPC because of its expandability.

It's funny how you think HS is "infinitely expandable". If HS went out of business tomorrow, or a more likely scenario, quit Palm PDA market, all HS expansion modules would disappear or there would be no more NEW HS modules.

If MS went out of business (will they ever), all CF/PCMCIA products will still exist and innovation will still grow. Why? Because PCMCIA has been the industry-standard for so many years, and CF is fastly becoming the standard for personal electronics. Everyone from IBM to small electronic company in Taiwan makes CF/PCMCIA for laptop, for digital camera, for PDA, for MP3 player, etc. CF/PCMCIA both have industry groups where standards are formed and agreed among all.

If you think HS is infintely expandable, and you haven't realized CF/PCMCIA are industry-standards, I don't know what planet you're from.

>-Show me where you read that the new PocketPC is going to support bluetooth.

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31197

Bluetooth built in the new Ipaq running on PocketPC2002.


-How much will this new IPAQ that supports Bluetooth cost?

See above

-Will you have to buy a new one or will your old one truley expand?

No. Only because new one offers more RAM. With a PCMCIA sleeve, you can go to Frys' electronics, and pick up just about any PC peripherals, and most likely you'll find drivers that work for Ipaq.

Different directions
skoty @ 9/15/2001 2:40:17 PM #
Yeah, I followed your links. The first one took me to some corner of microsoft.com. Thanks to this link I can now say that your earlier comment:

>Besides, do you know how much CF ethernet/modem cost? >$40. Any more questions?

was false. There's no CF ethernet/modem PCMCIA expansion that costs $40. There's a modem with a Compact Flash slot (no card included) that is $40 after rebates. No ethernet expasion is $40.

>If HS went out of business tomorrow, or a more likely >scenario, quit Palm PDA market, all HS expansion >modules would disappear or there would be no more NEW >HS modules.

Fortunately, I think Microsoft is in greater danger of being broke up than Handspring is of going out of business. Keep in mind though, that Handspring doesn't make all of the springboards. They probably make less than 10% of them.

Your comparison of Handspring to Micorsoft is also really a comparison of apples to oranges. The real comparison should have been to Compaq which by the way is in the middle of a merger with HP. I guess your SOL if they drop the IPAQ and just continue the Jornada. Or at least out of $600 when you buy your next money pit. You'll have to because who's going to keep writing PCMCIA drivers for the IPAQ?

The second link you privided was even less useful. No mention of bluetooth being included in the IPAQ could be found. I did however find the price $600 and up.

Sadly, I think we are comparing product lines that are headed in different directions. Compaq's prices continue to go up while Hansprings prices are more and more affordable for us middle class folks. The already large Compaq can be expanded with sleeves that make it even thicker and bulky. Handsprings on the other had can be expanded with springboards that fit flush in the springboard slot not affecting size at all. A few exceptions are the phone and GPS modules.

It almost appears that the IPAQ really isn't intended to replace Palm devices. It's really intended to replace Laptops... sort of... The price would surly indicate that.

>An extreme of this "infinte expandibiliy" is how you >can use almosst every SCSI-devices with your Ipaq.

I saw no SCSI connector on the IPAQ. Is this yet another sleeve you're referring to? Boy I bet that's big. PDA users aren't even interested in connecting it to a harddrive (try fitting that one in your pocket!)

I guess the points I've been trying to make so far are:

-The reason Hansprings (and all PalmOS devices for that matter) don't require as much memory as PocketPCs is because they use an OS that runs much smaller, more efficient programs. There's no arguing this.

-PocketPC's cost more Handsprings cost less

-PocketPC's are much larger than any PalmOS device especially when "expanded"

-Upon further review, expandability in the IPAQ is comparable to Handspring if you don't mind bulk (after all it's really just a mini laptop)

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 4:42:28 PM #
HS cheap, ipaq expensive?

HS is not cheap, $200 to $300 should buy a good machine. Color ipaq, 3650, $290. B/W ipaq: $99 I won't tell you where to get it. You have to use more brain power to research and figure out what others are talking about.

HS small, ipaq big?

HS is not small. Read what others have mentioned in this forum. If I want something small, I would get Palm 500. Ipaq is not big if you don't use the sleeve. And if you wanna something small, look at the new Toshiba Genio running pocketpc2000, both CF/SD expansion, the same size as Handera. I don't know about you, anything smaller than that size is too small for power users. If I wanna something really small, I would have bought the creditsize PDA, which by the way, is out of business.

HS uses powerful, yet small softwares. Ipaq doesn't

Palm softwares are small, and more softwares are available. But most of them are small utility software or a software that's too small to be really powerful.

PocketPC softwares are generally larger in size. However, the size itself doesn't affect the quality.
I already mention its the memory space of hardware to hold real DATA space that really matters.


Pocket PC 2002 Issues Continue
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 4:52:42 PM #
I'm tired of all this Palm vs. Pocket PC arguments (to the extent that I'm posting here for the first time after reading this site for the last 6 months).

The reason I use Palm (and will continue to) is the stability and simplicity of the operating system for the average user.

Read this review of Pocket PC 2002:
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2811278,00.html

(I don't know how to fit it on one line.)

George

Misleading again
skoty @ 9/15/2001 5:09:43 PM #
>HS is not cheap, $200 to $300 should buy a good machine. Color ipaq, 3650, $290. B/W ipaq: $99

Again you're comparing apples to oranges... These are the MSRPs of brand new products compared to your "back market" prices on older products. You're not going to get your Bluetooth enabled IPAQ that's supposedly comming out (per your own post only) for less than $600. Unless, of course, you're an employee of MicroSoft, which would explain why your so adimate about their crap.

>I won't tell you where to get it.

Why did you even post it then? Is this message board a game to you? Postings should be informative not "I can get if for this price and you can't"

>HS is not small. Read what others have mentioned in this forum.

They were comparing it to other Palm devices, you're comparing it to an IPAQ. Here's the real dimensions:

Neo and Pro: 4.8" x 3.0" x 0.7"
Ipaq H3600 series: 5.11" x 3.28" x 0.62"

The Ipaq looks bigger to me. I can barely fit my Platinum (same as Neo) in my pocket. The IPAQ is a quarter inch wider and taller. Not a chance that's fitting into my pocket. Especially not with a sleeve on there. I can put any number of springboards into my Platinum and it still fits in my pocket. Yes sir, the Handspring is smaller.

>However, the size itself doesn't affect the quality.

It does affect the quantity though. This is why you have chosen to drop more money into CF.

>I already mention its the memory space of hardware to hold real DATA space that really matters.

You got one of them USB hard drives in your backpack for your "real DATA"? Again, the only difference between that and a laptop is about $100-$200.



RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 6:22:00 PM #
True. The stability and simplicity and availability of special software (medical application) are the strength of Palm devices. If would ever switch back to Palm, that would be why.

This also proves the argument simple Palm users don't need expensive or cheap software HS modules.

This further proves the argument simple Palm PDA should never cost $150, new or used.

So does HS have a shot in the low-end PDA market? I don't think so.


>HS is not cheap, $200 to $300 should buy a good machine. Color ipaq, 3650, $290. B/W ipaq: $99

Again you're comparing apples to oranges... These are the MSRPs of brand new products compared to your "back market" prices on older products. You're not going to get your Bluetooth enabled IPAQ that's supposedly comming out (per your own post only) for less than $600. Unless, of course, you're an employee of MicroSoft, which would explain why your so adimate about their crap.

>They're not black market price. They are advertised on the internet from legitimate stores.


>I won't tell you where to get it.

Why did you even post it then? Is this message board a game to you? Postings should be informative not "I can get if for this price and you can't"

> No, I'm not an employee of MS. I don't even like Window 98. But I don't want to tell you too much because you need get out there do some research before you get so stuck in your HS modules.


>HS is not small. Read what others have mentioned in this forum.

They were comparing it to other Palm devices, you're comparing it to an IPAQ. Here's the real dimensions:

Neo and Pro: 4.8" x 3.0" x 0.7"
Ipaq H3600 series: 5.11" x 3.28" x 0.62"

The Ipaq looks bigger to me. I can barely fit my Platinum (same as Neo) in my pocket. The IPAQ is a quarter inch wider and taller. Not a chance that's fitting into my pocket. Especially not with a sleeve on there. I can put any number of springboards into my Platinum and it still fits in my pocket. Yes sir, the Handspring is smaller.

>I didn't compare HS to Ipaq. I just said HS is not small. Its form factor is in the middle of nowhere. Besides, PocketPC is getting smaller and smaller. Toshiba geni at the Handera size is perfect. I personally don't want to get anything smaller than that.

>However, the size itself doesn't affect the quality.

It does affect the quantity though. This is why you have chosen to drop more money into CF.

>Drop more money in CF? I don't know what you're talking about here. Storing 128MB of MP3 would cost you $188 on SD. On HS memory module, not even possible. Storing 256MB of MP3 on CF cost about $100.

I don't know if you have problem understanding the issue here or not. The real data files (word files, excel sheets, ebook, jpeg images, movie clips, etc have similar files size regardless the OS. So whoever makes device that uses cheapest, most widely-used memory option has better PDA in terms of storage option.

>I already mention its the memory space of hardware to hold real DATA space that really matters.

You got one of them USB hard drives in your backpack for your "real DATA"?

>No, just a small 256MB of CF for about $100.

Again, the only difference between that and a laptop is about $100-$200.

>Yes, Ipaq is a good alternative to laptop. Except a decent laptop costs at least $1000. And you can't never carry a laptop with you everywhere you go (including reading ebook in the restroom;-)


By the way, since you're so hard-core HS users, tell us what you've been able to do HS that makes you so proud.


RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
skoty @ 9/15/2001 8:21:51 PM #
I think we've already been through why I think PalmOS devices, Handsprings in particular, are as good if not better than WindowsCE devices.

I'm not trying to be proud or arragant. This whole thing started when I corrected some of your far fetched ideas about how bad Handspring was and how much springboards cost. Ever since then I've been responding to your questions and checking your facts. It isn't right to badmouth a product with false evidence.

I'm done.

RE: Same old crap, new bucket.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/15/2001 8:55:06 PM #
Pointing out facts is not "badmouthing" a product. If you're in love with your HS regardless other better (in my opinion) products out there, say it. It's your individual choice. I have no business to tell you what you should use. But I have reason to tell you my opinion why new HS models suck. That's not "badmouth" a product.

And I'm done, too.

Already on Sale at Fry's Electronics - yesterday 9/12/01

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/13/2001 10:29:29 PM #
I saw both new models already on the shelves for sale at Fry's Electronics last night (here in Phoenix, AZ). The Neo models have new clear cases in Red, Blue & smoke Black. The new Pro model looks like the Platnium model. Both models stated a 33 MHz processor.

Fry's also had an interesting Linux PDA out for sale - I think it was called the Advantage, for $249. I tried it out for about 30 mins and was not really impressed with the basic applications, buut the included games, especially the Space Invader clone game was impressive graphics wise. I didn't detect any sound on the device, although there was a neat feature on it - it had large, long buttons on both sides - they resembled paddles.

- Dave A.

RE: Already on Sale at Fry's Electronics - yesterday 9/12/01
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/14/2001 5:36:11 AM #
Yep i saw it too, i went today, and it was in the corner was surprised, didn't know wtf it was, and i was wondering why it wasn't posted here in PIC.

Anyways, $300 for 16 megs? it's a rip off for a visor.
They had the PRo and NEO stacked on top of each other. and it's in a white box.
(nxt)

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