Comments on: Palm m505 Review Part I

I returned a palm that had this problem, the palm I exchanged it for, the slot was tighter therefore it was not so noticeble that the case fell out if not secured properly.

The same thing happend with the stylus, its very tight, on the exchanged model it was less tighter, and with wear and tear from pulling it in and out, it has become less tighter and has more functionability

Oh, and if Palm was smart at all, the sidelight is of some sort of LED variety (or anything similar) which means it CAN'T burn out... if they weren't smart, then poop on them.

Anyone else perform this type of experiment?

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

2nd you have BibleReader from olivetree.com will have a fix in around 2 weeks so then you will have another 1.5 megs of memory available. We will be ok for awhile until the new ARM units arrive.

Happy Palming my friends!

-
kHiTeDev

The Palm VFS API fully supports *both* reading and writing to the cards (SD/MMC or CF, the API actually doesn't care). The application must simply be coded to write to the card.

It is interesting that TRG/HandEra's original FFS API for CF cards faced a similiar misconception (and sometimes still does). People think their API is read-only because the AutoCF extension allows only read-only databases, which is not the case. People now think Palm's API only allows read-only access because of the built-in launcher's ability to copy apps off the card and run them means card access is read-only, but it's not. Palm, Sony, and TRG/HandEra's APIs allow reading and writing to the external storage cards they support. The problem is few apps actually take advantage of these OS features.

http://www.brighthand.com/resources/m505/Image005.jpg

I remember when the first iPaq's were shipping. Everyone had a problem with how dim it looked without the sidelight. But you know what? A few months later, almost everyone agreeed that the iPaq's screen is about the best of any PPC out there...yes, I know how vibrant the indoor viewing of the Casio, Prism, and IIIc is.

Trust me on this...you'll learn to completely love this screen. It is so functional. It almost looks monochrome without the backlight in a lot of cases, but you have the option of showing off those 16-bit color photos in true color when you want.

Only use the sidelight (frontlight) when you need it, and watch how long your new color handheld's battery goes...on and on. The iPaq goes 10-12 hours without the sidelight, easy; and that's with heavy multimedia games and normal use. My bet is that the m505 will go AT LEAST that amount with a mixture of sidelight/no sidelight.

In low light situations without the sidelight on, the iPaq has the same dim, almost unreadable, appearance the m505 has in the same situation. In bright light, they both perform great without the sidelight on.

That's the comparison...we're not talking resolution.

The better the resolution the better the screen, period.

I think that the m505s' screen is adequate, but we will see higher resolution screens within the next few years when technology makes it possible. If it was possible to have the iPaq screen in an m505, without any additional battery drain OMG.

> Why are the left side rail and the rail where the
> stylus fits two different sizes?

> An internal component design required that the
> left rail be smaller than the right rail on the
> m500/505 handhelds.

Still kind of vague, though. Maybe Dave Design will take an m505 apart, too, and I'll get to see the internal design for myself.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

-Pepper

Sony is a pretty good company, IMHO. They make quality stuff.

The Wall Street Journal has a report on the Clie:

http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html

They also have a report on the m505:

http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20010329.html

Any way you could look at it, the screen of the m505 is causing major concerns.

See http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column010430.htm

I'd also add:

1) Weight/form factor
(as much as I admire the speed and screen res of the iPaq, I destest its bulk and think the design is garish)

2) Ease of use
(Although PPC 3.0 is better than WinCE 2.0, PPC still has some way to go before making an appointment is as easy to do as with the native Palm DateBook)

As for comparing prices... well, I agree the prices are nuts. Too bad the HandEra will not cost $250, the m500 $300, the m505 $350, and the new Sony N710C $400. Those prices are more realistic, in my opinion.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1862&MODE=FLAT

Palm III (Palm OS ver 3.0, 3.0.1, 3.3)

or

Palm V (Palm OS ver 3.1)

Is the M505 brighter than the Gameboy Color in the same lighting conditions ? (Regardless of the 16 or 32 bit color system)

They are *very* different devices that suit different needs....

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi

d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados

I'm getting a demo PalmPix to review next week, too. Note, they are not going on sale next week; Kodak's PR firm is loaning me one.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

Looks like Palm only supports one brightness setting to conserve power. iPAQ on brightest sidelight setting sucks power like you wouldn't believe, but given the choice of choosing this myself and being forced to use something that supposedly is only half as bright as an iPAQ on it's lowest brightness setting...

Surely a hack will be available to allow more advanced users to choose which ratio of brightness/power drain they prefer.

The m505 from Hungary I had yesterday... first look at the very edges of the screen with the sidelight on. Just barely, barely past the edge of the last pixels. If the edge is a black dark line when view from straight above (from the side the sidelight of course is visible) then it is perfect (like my USA model.) My Hungary model has small "nicks" in the edging beyond the last row of pixels that let some sidelighting bleed upwards showing what looked like a bright dot (I am REALLY nitpicking here, I would never have a *problem* keeping that unit if it weren't for the stuck pixel.)

ALSO and this is intresting... I think my USA m505 may have a plastic back. As I noted above the back has a different style of printing on it from the CE/SD etc. labels on the Hungary m505 and it feels barely warmer than the front which some says indicates plastic. Also the color MAY barely be different from front to back. I could care less if the back on mine is plastic as the rest of the unit is perfect and better than the m505 from Hungary I had yesterday but is there a way I can test the back to see if it is plastic?

Anyone else see this, or is this a flaw?

BIIG bummer...
(I have to admit I am one of those pretend to know it
all gadget geeks that thinks he doesn't need to read the manual...;-(

The good news is I got it replaced immediately. And my
soul is in peace.

I though I should warn others of this.

Thanks ed for posting my embarassment..

mo

The screen is absolutely fine. I think there is an ugly trend going on where
people think that "brightest" means the best. The brightest screens always
draw the most attention -- people always seem to gravitate towards them,
like when you go into a Circuit City and look at TVs. However, the truth is,
brightness is not the end all of judging screens. Too much brightness is a
bad thing!

Let's just say this... the m505 screen looks fine. Compared to the
IIIc and the Prism, the screen looks very dull -- however, here's a perfect
example where brightness isn't everything. The IIIc and Prism screens are
SO BRIGHT that they create a lot of eye fatigue. Coupled with the lower
resolution, this makes the "black grid" effect very difficult to endure for
prolonged periods of time.

In an office setting, with overhead flourescent lights, the m505 screen is at
the very least as usable as the Palm V screen. There is certainly a lot more
contrast thanks to the addition of color. At certain angles, when not enough
light is able to be reflected, the m505 needs the sidelight on.

With the sidelight on, it is neither too bright, nor too dark. There is no
question about visibility when the light is on. After using it all day in the
office, I have no question that indoors, I won't need the sidelight. Unless
your office is a dungeon, you probably won't either. What you will need to do
is "angle" your Palm a little differently to get some reflected light. I can
certainly stare at the m505 for much longer periods of time than I can with
a Prism.

And one more thing to point out is that there is the inevitable comparison
between the IPAQ and the m505. Well, when the sidelight is on, the IPAQ
is brighter. With the backlight off, I can happily say both units perform
identically. The technology is the same. The only difference is that the
IPAQ has a much brighter sidelight.

I don't think people are getting defective units. I think they're judging based
on brightest is best.

-Al

When it comes to actual utility there may be some disappointment.

The Backup Card is essentially an 8mb card with software on it for backing
up. I was originally going to get a Backup Card, but it appears Blue Nomad
BackupBuddy now comes with a great new piece of backup software that
supports SD/MMC.

Take any size SD or MMC card and put it in the m505. Use the Backup
utility and it'll do a full system backup on to your card. Any remaining
space on the card can be used for other data/apps. You can have
the Backup utility perform a backup every day at a certain time, or
just everytime you turn the Palm off.

Assuming you have a big enough SD/MMC card, using BackupBuddy is
a better bargain. I'm using it right now with the 16mb Palm SD card.

-Al

http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/0-1257.html?tag=dir

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-6148752-9747028

Here's the low-down, Sony introduced a color Clie called the PEG-S500C(I think) in Japan following the immense success in the Japanese market of their monochrome PEG-S300 Clie. The color Clie drew numerous complaints from customers, they stated that the color was [B]dull, dim, and washed-out[/B] (sound familiar?).

The Clie was so ill-received in Japan, Sony did not even bother release the unit anywhere outside Japan, the color Clie was a huge blunder for Sony. Fortunately, Sony learned from its past mistaken and now it has created the Clie PEG-N710C, which has a brighter color screen and increased resolution.

You would think that Palm would have learned from Sony's past mistakes, a dim, dull screan with washed-out color will earn more critism than praise.

The alarm is loud enough to use as a travel alarm. I tried it out as a morning alarm (set on high of course) and it worked great for this. That is how loud it is.

Also, the system sounds are just loud, so that you have to turn them off, unlike the Platinum where you could set it on low and it was barely audible and therefore quite usable in just about any setting.

At no point while using my m505 would I ever mistake it for being anything but a color Palm. While the screen is dim in low ambient light, it is no different than my Palm V was. You turn on the sidelight when you need it, and keep it off when you don't. In every case, I firmly believe that the m505 screen is an improvement over the Palm V.

The screen remains sharp and crisp even in dim light. The colors may be "muddy", but you never lose definition. With the sidelight on, the screen is beautiful. It does not have the harsh brightness of the Prism or the IIIc. It is smooth, and very pleasant. You can't use it for a flashlight, and I think your eyes will thank you for it.

Of course, that's my opinion on the matter. :) Don't expect Prism brightness. Treat the lighting like you would on your Palm V. I think you'll find the m505 screen to be just about perfect.

-Al

The staples and OD in my area won't get the 505 until next week :(. I can't wait.

Matt

Is it worth it to upgrade from my 3 yr old palm III with 2mb and original screen (the old green one)? Definitely!

It's just like computer hardware. You wouldn't upgrade to a Pentium 4 from a P3, but going from a P1 to a P4 would be huge!

Its all relative.

QuickBits Index
m505: 171
Vx: 143
V: 101

Form Draw/Sec
m505: 9.96
Vx: 8.38
V: 6.83

-Pepper

You also get a sluggish Microsoft Operating system which NEEDS that 150Mhz processor to run, and still gets left behind the Palms in PIM applications (the reason why people buy Palms). For the same reason (bloated OS) you NEED that 16MB Flash RAM - same for the software.

So you see, things are pretty even. On the other hand you can get a sleek, fast PIM device that does what it's ment to do, or a bulkier, power-hungry multimedia gadget.

I'm not here to judge your needs (and indeed, you shouldn't judge other people's needs), though, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

To each their own.

i've seen the m505. i also used it for about an hour. a co-worker bought it the day it came out. he's since returned it.

it's the same hardware, the same technology, the same interface, with the same limitations.

you guys failed to read that i, too, used to own a visor. what i failed to mention was that before the visor i owned a palm iiixe, before that a palm iii, before that a palm pilot professional, and before that even the original palm pilot.

my casio em-500 is my latest upgrade, and i've found that it is *the best* handheld i've ever owned. and with the price now being ONLY $399, it's the best buy out right now. period.

and what's wrong with casio? read the reviews before you start bashing a product you've never seen or used (sound familiar?).

i am reading this review of the palm m505 because i am interested in the latest and greatest in technology. unfortunately, after reading the reviews, seeing and using the product first hand, and developing applications for handhelds, the m505 is not in the "latest and greatest" group. hence, i repeat my question: "Why would anyone buy this?"

btw, i'm not a microsoft defender by any stretch of the imagination. i use linux exclusively. but windows ce is great as an embedded os on the handheld (cassiopeia, ipaq, jornada, @migo, etc). i've only had it lock up once, and that was my fault. i was developing an app for it and foobar'd it. a simple reset and it was back to normal. since then, it's been perfect, which is much better than i can say for any palm handheld i've had.

-Pepper

Oh well... I am still happy though. I love it!

Aaron in Los Angeles, CA

Good luck,
dteky.

Why not just order a USB Hub instead??

First of all what have you done to troubleshoot the problem?
-Have you cover all the basics such as running an OS that supports USB?
-Have you attempted to connect via infrared?
-Check the settings on the palm? Downgrade the speed if you have to.
-Are you using the hotsync that came with the Palm or others such as Franklin Covey, Intellisync etc...
-Does the palm make a connection to the computer then dies or does it not even connect at all?

I'm sure you or tech support probably already had you check these things but doesn't hurt make sure. Feel free to contact me and I will do what I can to help.

Good luck,
dteky.

Yes, but mine is hooked up to my Macintosh PowerBook. Could it be WinNT related?

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

It only put me 5 days behind. This is my first Palm and I was getting discouraged.

For my PC at work, I'm running Windows NT 4.0 w/ sp6a and had originally had my Palm V cradle connected to my COM2 serial port. My Palm V cradle had been working perfectly out of the box with no complaints. After bringing in my m505 and serial cradle, I disconnected the Palm V cradle and replaced it with the new serial cradle.

I then upgraded the desktop software with what came on the CD (4.0.1). I verified that the HotSync manager is set to local serial and to use the COM2 serial port. I then attempted to perform a HotSync, but the m505 would time out with an error that says:

"The connection between your handheld computer and the desktop could not be established. Please check your setup and try again."

No connection to the PC was ever established. The pop-up window that shows that a HotSync is happening never appeared. I talked online with someone from Palm about this. They said to try the cradle with another computer, and if it still doesn't work, then the problem is with the cradle. Well I did try with another computer (also running Windows NT), and got nothing.

I went back last night and got the serial cradle replaced with a new one. This time, I tried to connect it to my PC at home. It's running Windows 98 (second edition). Before I had tried, I did have the m505 USB cradle connected and working along with the serial cradle for my Palm V (also working). I swapped the Palm V cradle with the new serial cradle and still got the same problem.

I don't think that it's a Windows NT issue, but I don't know if maybe it's something with running Palm OS 4, or if I'm lucky enough to get 2 bad serial cradles in a row. I've had no problems when using my USB cradle. Any thoughts?

Signature? Oh yeah, I had one here a minute ago...

for those that haven't:

when you snooze an alarm, a flashing asterisk pops up in the top left corner of most apps. tapping on this will bring you to the Attention manager, where you can dismiss the alarm reminders.

I, have had a Palm IIIc since they were introduced. I have had every other Palm from the
first Palm introduced in June, 1996.

Overall, the m505 is the best yet.
True the color is not as vivid as the IIIc or the Visor
Prism, BUT...

This is the first Palm screen that is TOTALLY readable in
bright, outdoor sunlight. In fact the screen is absolutely
beautiful outdoors without the need for the side-light unless you are in heavy shade. I cannot read the screen at all outdoors on my IIIc. It's useless there!

In typical office florescent lighting it is also perfect to read. No need for the sidelight.

Basically, what I am trying to convey is that outdoors
and indoors with flourescent lighting you will not need
the sidelight.

Just about everywhere else you will. So what? The screen with the sidelight on in dimmer situations is fine.
Not great, but very satisfactory.

So, if you are like me...I work in an office...you will love the screen. And if you go to lunch and want to sit outdoors at a cafe you will love the screen.

Any other lighting conditions...big deal...use the sidelight. The sidelight does make the colors seem washed out when compared with my IIIc, but that is the only trade-off when you realize everything else you are
gaining with the m505. (much smaller footprint and SD and MMC expandibility.

I think if you go into the store expecting what I have
written here you will be very pleased.

-PEPPER!

btw: how do you carry your pocket pc? they don't fit in your pocket, you practically need a BACKPACK to haul it around in!

To remove the Palm you have to tilt it forward and lift. This makes a "click" that sounds like you broke a little piece of plastic. Compared to the simple slide in design of my Palm Vx this is very poorly designed.

Additionally, the cradle now takes up more space, is lighter and made of some cheap plastic. The V/Vx cradle was elegantly designed, heavy and sturdy.

I've found the m505 (not just the cradle) to have a flimsier feel than the V/Vx. Palm should have retained the use of the company that designed the V/Vx instead of fiddling with and degrading the original design.

they're letting you down and are still collecting your hard earned money. companies really start to sit up and take notice when you take your money to someone else for a better product.

check out the ipaq, cassiopeia, or new sony clie. full color, full sound, for the same price or less of the m505.