Comments on: Sony Clié N710C appearing in retail stores

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/cliepicture.html

and

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/710review.html

Stephen

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.

Matt

Sony Pros:
- Brighter screen and better fonts - not as good as I thought based on what I have read but it is better. (at least to my 44 yr old eyes)I can read it without reading glasses - a big plus.
- bigger but not too big- narrower and shorter than a IIIc. Only slightly taller than the 505 but narrower. It is almost as thick as the IIIc. (the exact diminsions did not matter to me if it fits in my pocket). After carrying it around in my pocket for three days, I can live with it.
- slightly slower than a 505 - don't know why
- built in screen display items are dimmer than 505 - like lines on calendar but entries with larger fonts are easier to read.
- Wordsmith, almost unreadable to me without reading glasses on the 505, is fine on the Sony without reading glasses.
- cradle fit is nicer - at least it does not sound like you are breaking something when you take it on and off like the 505.
- can play MP3s even on the older memory sticks. I bought a 64meg stick yesterday and it works fine. Apparently you only need the MagicGate sticks if you create the MP3s with the Sony software. I did not think I would like that, but its fun to play with. A big plus is that you can use the audio software to move large files directly from the computer to the memory stick using transfer mode. Open audio software, select transfer and the stick appears as a drive in Explorer. This is a super nice feature. You need it for MP3s, but its nice for large data files too.
- Cost is more but equivalent when you consider the 8meg stick included and the fact that the Sony power cable can be detached from the cradle and used as a travel charger - a good idea for all Palm type computers (plus earphones and remote).
- Some accessories from b&w Sony fit the Color model - for example it uses the same travel kit that I bought at Compusa yesterday - a travel charger and cable without cradle.
- I can see it better in dim light and the typical office.

505 Pros:
Size
Finish
Feels like better quality construction but mine broke at 19 days old.
More accessories.

Tie:
So far the programs that work with the SD card also work with the memory stick (except PhotoSuite which probably will but I have not figured it out yet).

If the screens were the same, the 505 wins no question. Since the Sony has the better screen, I will take it for the time being.

BillW

I saw the music video with sound, well, its not that great, but for a small device is definately a step up, way up. This device made me think that my m505 was a mistake. Nothing I can do about that, burned all my money.

I like everything about this device over the m505.

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours

YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.

Just as good!!

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

http://www.red-mercury.com/sixteen.html

Remember, not all of us want to listen to music and play games on our PDA's, for us it's a business tool.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?

I guess it's a playoff of framerate vs audio, but if Teal ever improves the audio (which by the way plays through any Palm OS device with an internal speaker), it will be the viewer of choice for me.

But real life is even different from that.

We should consider once a day to:

Look up 20 addresses
Synchronise wireless to avantgo a given channel amount
Read email 15 minutes
Writing text for 20 minutes

Looks good in theory - but who has the time to do this for a prolonged time?

I would say - lets get on with life and accept the fact that the Palm 50x is a pretty good machine with a acceptable screen and enough battery life to make you comfortable in normal conditions - and let the fine details to the non-power user who crawl even in the last bit.

(Thought for expeditions which are away a prolonged period from their homebase like the one on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923
We propose always battery driven Palms / Symbols / HandEra or battery emergency loader)

A power user is the one making the most of his machine by working with it every day and gaining benefit in being more productive or / and have simple good fun

- and not the one disassembling his Ferrari by the day (as only a freak does)
- changing oil and measuring the gas with a stick to calculate the consume

These chaps are avoiding driving around as the tires could get wet.

If the majority of users would more focus on real life problems (the proper software / solutions)and not trying to measure what’s not worth to measure as long at is basically ok- we would have a lot less useless flames and stress.

That’s the way I see it

Boris
www.palmtop-pro.com
--

Another theme: The chaps biting the nickel on this forum (on unimportant theoretical academic arguments) overlook that the product itself is not the mayor cost involved – if you choose the wrong tool (and thats the software) for your work means that you have to spend incredible time and effort later on.

Theres an Ipaq neard over there in the corner. He's mumbling some Ram/Rom/bits sampling/ geekspeak.

Lets all go after HIM. :)

As far as size goes, from my perspective it was, "hey, cool, the Clie is smaller than my IIIx", rather than, "gack, the Clie is bigger than a Vx". Sure, I'd love to have a Clie screen/backlight in an m505 body, but then I also want a 400mhz StrongARM, 32mb memory, flat-rate wireless Internet connectivity, and OS5... don't we all? :-)

It seems everyone is also arguing the relative merits of MemStick vs. SD/MMC vs. CF... (okay, well, granted, CF wins hands down on IO device support at this point, but you just can't build a CF-sized slot into a m505-sized handheld right now). But I see this as mostly a non-issue at this point, if you use the slot for external memory, and aren't buying / dragging around handfuls of the cards... I'm delighted by how transparently software that uses Palm's VFS API works between the two -- all the Clie MSMount-style software works on the m50x, and things advertised as supporting SD/MMC, like Palm's PalmReader (née PeanutReader), work just fine on my Clie/MemStick.

I'm looking forward to more programs supporting VFS, so you can, for example, keep a 100k dictionary app in main memory that reads from a 10mb database on a MS/SD/MMC/CF card. I'd love to see more document readers be able to directly read documents off the card (like PalmReader), without the use of MSMount or tricks to temporarily copy databases to RAM.

Call them / Email them - let them know they shouldn't
treat their customers this way.

a pox on both their houses!
and on Staples too, for a $20 pre-order fee
that got you nothing.

I was one of the original beta testers for OmniSky and used them until about three months ago. Bad software, bulky device and sporadic connections finally made me come to my senses. The phone makes a much better wireless modem.

Which plan are you using? Does it use your voice minutes?

WHAT ?

You speaka english ?