Comments on: Rumor: Info Leaked on Palm i705

An anonymous source has leaked a great deal of information on Palm's soon-to-be-released wireless handheld, the i705. Much of the information that was released about this device when it received FCC approval last fall has been confirmed but there is also some additional information.

The primary feature of the i705 is that it offers always-on email. The user is notified as soon as a new email is received, even if the handheld is turned off. Also, it comes with AOL Instant Messenger and the i705 will notify the user when an instant message arrives, too.

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Where's the beef? -- er, email?

mikecane @ 1/18/2002 12:25:58 PM #
So, where's Palm email to everyone?!

$10/mo for 50K?! Is this a bad joke? (At $10/mo for 50K: ITABJ?)

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
bcombee @ 1/18/2002 12:27:31 PM #
The $10/50K plan is the same as currently offered for the Palm VII/VIIx. You pay in 1K increments over that. This is basically lifeline service -- something you can use for an occasional web search or email on the road, but not for everyday use.

$35 for unlimited is pretty nice, IMHO. The issue is that it uses the Mobitex network, which was designed for two-way paging, not full-time data access. It looks like Palm was able to negotiate the price of network access down from their PVII contract, but Cingular still has to make their money, and with unlimited usage, they are taking the risk with each customer that he or she might use much more than $35 worth of bandwidth. I guess Palm had usage statistics from the RIM device and the VII to show that the unlimited customers weren't as bad as originally thought.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
Foo Fighter @ 1/18/2002 12:32:08 PM #
What a disgrace! I honestly believed Palm would revolutionize the wireless market by offering cheap unlimited e-mail access to the masses.

Palm shoots off another toe! I'm finding it very hard to feel sorry for this company.

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
ThePolack @ 1/18/2002 1:14:11 PM #
And how are they supposed to do provide cheap reliable wireless email to the masses? Just what magic wand did you want them to wave?

Let's face it, the wireless networks in this country are a pathetic joke. What is Palm supposed to do? Build they're own reliable wireless network nationwide and sell access for pennies?

The US just isn't ready for cheap reliable wireless access yet. The infrastructure just plain isn't there (or isn't being used properly really). Move to Sweden if you want cheap reliable wireless. Or Israel. Go anywhere but here.

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:19:14 PM #
Wireless in the US is bad when compared to Europe for one very big reason, land mass. The US has huge expanses of nothingness. It's much easier to reliably cover a smaller area.

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:08:21 PM #
We should blowup the Westcoast and concentrate on the east. ITll mean less airports=lets planebombs, less parameter=less security requirement.

just a thought. =)


RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:52:35 PM #
I never comment on these, but those of you who accept that the US has lousy wireless access because of landmass are somewhat misguided, to say the least. Canada has excellent digital access covering 90% of the population; while you don't have access, say, on a dirt road between two cities, that's something that's likely not even available in Sweden or Israel.

As for having crappy wireless access in your major cities...the more people complain, the better service will get.

Just as an example, I pay 25.00 a month for unlimited evenings, weekends, and 12-1 pm, plus 50 daytime minutes on my mobile phone. That's in Canadian dollars, which translates to about 17.00 US. You just can't beat that in the US.

Not trying to make the US look bad...but you really should give your wireless companies a good kick in the ass because they seem to be gouging their customers for inferior service, using geography as an excuse.

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:38:54 PM #
Lets kick jamie lee curtis' ass. That bitch thinks we should throw our regular phone and use voicestreams for all calls.

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:45:43 PM #
Jamie Lee..

If we played fetch with our regular phones and relied on our GSM Voicestream...we would all be "out of touch"

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
volcanopele @ 1/18/2002 7:20:59 PM #
Hey I am related to Jamie Lee Curtis (okay, through a great-grandfather but thats not the point). She is just the messenger. Let find the head of Cingular Wireless instead?

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:21:42 PM #
Canada Vs. The US

This is to the guy that said 90 percent of the population in Canada is served by wireless...90% of the population is also located within 100 miles of the US border. A much easier proposition for companies then to out fit the whole US. So you are plain wrong. The reason we have such lousy coverage is cost, populations too far out of cities, and the amount of land and people.

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 3:02:01 AM #
Part of the story in Europe is SMS, Small Message Service from wireless phones. Here in the U.S., I can send an SMS message from one Sprint phone to another, but not to a Verizon phone. The fact that our competing wireless phone companies can't get together on this, and make it possible to send SMS from phone to phone regardless of the carrier, makes SMS worthless.

That's why in Europe, SMS which is wireless e-mail via cellphones, took off. It's worth it to learn to type on a 10 key over there. Wireless email will always be expensive untill everyone starts using it, and there can be an economy of scale. It won't happen until our carriers start cooperating on SMS.

RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:04:08 PM #
Landmass is not the only reason why the US mobile services are behind. Another one is that you pay for incoming calls, so most people switch their phones off when not making calls. In Europe, the caller pays, so everyone leaves their mobiles on all the time. Result - many more phone calls (Italians now have their handsets surgically attached to their ears) and the price of calls drops dramatically, generating further growth.
The use of just one phone standard also helped.

Just the Caller pays?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:19:34 PM #
I like it!

My Prediction...

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:28:59 PM #
This device seems as though it is way past it's time. It doesn't seem much different than the Palm VIIx except for the fact that it has a smaller form factor and runs a more recent OS. The device is B&W ... which seems very antiquated for a device that _should_ be the top-of-the-line for Palm. And the rate plans are outrageous. I just don't see how this thing will sell with devices like the Treo being released at the same time...

RE: compared too...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:38:25 PM #
Sure, color is a must on any device selling for more than 300 these days. But the service plan is a huge drop from what the pricing is now... isn't it?!

RE: My Prediction...
montyburns @ 1/18/2002 12:44:56 PM #
I bet you wonder why people like apples when they can eat oranges, too.

The Treo is a cell phone pda combo.

The i705 is a wireless PDA.

Similar, like apples and oranges being round, but different in many key characteristics.

I would love to have a i705. I don't care about color - I want wireless access, and the i705 offers that.

I like my Palm!

RE: My Prediction...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:45:16 PM #
Sure, the wireless pricing is almost "reasonable" ... I would actually consider paying $35/month for an unlimited plan. BUT, I would only be willing to do so if the "upgrade" from my current m505 was worth it (in terms of PDA functionality and usability). Palm made a "mistake" (of course this is my opinion) by releasing the m505 for high-end users and then, 6 months later, releasing this wireless device without color. It just doesn't make sense. How do they expect to lure high-end users (ie, those willing to spend the $$$ on a device AND a wireless plan) if this thing doesn't meet the specs of the previous high-end device (the m505)?

RE: My Prediction...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:42:09 PM #
This early, I predict it'll be a flop.

RE: My Prediction...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:48:13 PM #
I second the flop motion... All in favor?

RE: My Prediction...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:54:07 PM #
Will it flop because of the Treo? The Treo, which will also be B&W? Oh, I know -- you Handspring apologists like to point out that the color Treo will be out later this year. Folks, Handspring can't even get the B&W Treo out yet!!!

The i705 will be mildly successful. Don't look for it to be a panacea for Palm, but don't look for it to kill the company, either.

RE: My Prediction...
jonecool @ 1/18/2002 1:57:21 PM #
Flop. I agree. I use a VisorPrism with a VisorPhone and would not go back to a non-color machine. I would stay where I am or swap OS's before I give up color if Palm(or others) can't or won't deliver. I'm wondering if the TREO is that much of a success when it comes out, initially, it's going to be a non-color device as well.

I see nothing new here. The pricing reduction is evolutionary, not revolutionary. Given the amount of bandwidth that voice requires as opposed to Data-Only, I would have expected "much" lower negotiated data-only rates at this point with the carriers. I see $10-20 a month being more reasonable for a device like this. But without color, it still won't amount to much.

I had a Palm VII(2mb) and VIIx(8mn). Nice devices, but I spent more time looking for the Query apps to get what I wanted. I would NOT consider this device as an option, knowing what I know today. With the VisorPhone, I just dial-up ($20 with Earthlink) and browse to any location. It's allot slower than the query apps, but then again, I can run Query apps on the VisorPhone too (just install Palms Internet Connect Kit on it).

Once the Palm MIK is installed, Query Apps can be used as long as you want (other than the connect time with your cell provider/ISP). Also, since many Cell providers (i.e. VoiceStream) offer 1000+ weekend min., you can use your VisorPhone without too much worries on the weekend and conservatively during weekdays.

Boy, did I get off the subject...

RE: My Prediction...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:20:27 PM #
All of you guys complaining about color on the i705 are stupid. Do know you how slow the wireless connection would be if everything was in color? Right now the Cingular service permits data to be transfered at about 9 kb/s. Can you imagine how slow it would be with color? Until we switch over to the new wireless standard from Europe, the speed problem will always be there to prevent newer technology. Some of you need to think about whats more important on your wireless device. Would you currently want something that runs ten times as slow as some 56k connection? Hell no!!! Anyway, just my few cents worth.

RE: My Prediction...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:39:15 PM #
Perhaps there is a new web standard that addresses this, but it was my understanding that PQAs and PDA-based browsers simply download a standard webpage/graphic and convert it to a format that is "useful" on the PDA. In other words, nothing exists to convert, in real-time, a color graphic from a website to a B&W graphic for display on a PDA. If a web server has a color graphic on a page and your PDA requests that page to be displayed on your handheld, you're gonna get that color graphic. Right?

RE: My Prediction...
jonecool @ 1/18/2002 3:13:13 PM #
Quoted from Anonymous above:
"All of you guys complaining about color on the i705 are stupid."

Obviously, you still use a B&W device and have never heard of Blazer. Blazer uses a proxy server that actually "fetches" the webpages you request. It handles the conversion of the image from it's original files size down to a "PDA Friendly" size. In comparison, a 10k image may be 400 bytes when viewed within Blazer. This allows it to operate much more quickly that you would expect.

Also, as an option, you can configure Blazer to receive Plain Text, B&W, Greyscale(4/16), Color (256) or Color (16-Bit). YOU have the option over your browsing experience. YOU DON'T HAVE THIS ON PALM.NET.

So, before you call people stupid, you might want to know what you are talking about ;)

RE: My Prediction...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:25:17 PM #
There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in this thread where some people think this device requires you to use PQAs and/or for access like the Palm VII did. That is not true with the 705. It provides you with a standard internet connection, and you can use the other various browsers available with it.

RE: My Prediction...
Edward @ 1/18/2002 10:56:29 PM #
"Also, as an option, you can configure Blazer to receive Plain Text, B&W, Greyscale(4/16), Color (256) or Color (16-Bit). YOU have the option over your browsing experience. YOU DON'T HAVE THIS ON PALM.NET.

Erm ...

In WCA 4 built into PalmOS 4 devices you do have this option, no images, fastest (bw), Standard and Best Quality (16bit), and PalmNet IS a proxy service. Blazer even reads some of the same special HTML tags as PQA's use. Sadly WCA isnt such a great browsing experience as Blazer, due to a distinct lack of bookmarks. Poplet solves this problem.

As for HTML rendering WCA is a featured as Blazer, although I prefer Blazer as it works with high res assist.

RE: My Prediction...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:11:46 PM #
Being in Europe, I have been playing with a Treo (lucky me) and it is very good. Blazer is unbelievably fast considering the slow data rate. Being a phone and an email terminal means that you only have to carry one device around with you, whereas the i705 will only do email so users will have to carry their phone as well. So it will bust, I'm afraid.

That's it...

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:45:46 PM #
Here is some things to keep in mind...

Wireless devices from any company does nothing for those who are not covered by the supporting carrier.

As above this device is really behind - perhaps 8 months ago it would be acceptable - even though I am not able to use these types of wireless packages where I live.

I am an M505 owner until I find a buyer for my 505, modem and keyboard. I have had it. I was looking at the new 615c - even that I am beginning to question. I have spent many years with palm, but I think I am prepared to swithc to a PPC for its ease of use with outlook and some of the other office products - its always some workaround with palm software to get compatibility with my Office programs. don't get me wrong - once you figure it out it works ok, but it all the time I spend fiddling with workarounds I would prefer to loose a bit of the functionality.

For example, with a dial up modem I can sync directly to my corporate email service...with palm os I have to use multimail and then use a bunch of plugins to look at documents etc.

I really like the simplicity of the palm, but add in video and mp3 playback,presenter to go third party products, vcs, gps, you name it, its beginning to look pretty tempting.

This may not seem to relate to this rumour, but it does - more subpar products from palm - thats the connection.

RE: That's it...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:57:54 PM #
Well, you have to remember that PocketPC is made by Microsoft so of course its going to sync with Outlook and read office docs. Its just bloated like every piece of Microsoft software. I don't think I need to go into all the reasons why Microsoft is a horrible company.

RE: That's it...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:59:42 PM #
That too is an opinion.

However, bloated or not - it works. Ease of integration is the key here.

RE: That's it...
fleegle @ 1/18/2002 1:31:19 PM #
Also, from what I've heard, Pocket Word and Pocket Excel isn't all that great. You will lose any formatting of the documents if you edit them on the PPC.

That reason alone would prevent me from wanting to use a PPC.

RE: That's it...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:12:34 PM #
Are there similar Wars on the PPC world like the palm world? is it more peaceful up therE?


RE: That's it...
fleegle @ 1/18/2002 3:44:26 PM #
No. No. No. You got it all wrong. It is peaceful down there. ;-)

RE: That's it...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:04:11 PM #
So... How much for the 505 and stuff, I won't go near a PPC...

RE: That's it...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 8:46:48 AM #
if you are interested in purchasing - leave your email and I will get in touch with you.

RE: That's it...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 9:39:16 PM #
I went to Office Depot the other day to look at an HP Jornada. Beautiful-looking device. It was pretty funny though, first time I thought I'd actually consider looking at one of these devices. I go to tap the Media player, see a familiar blue screen that had some jibberish in the upper-left, then it rebooted. I quickly lost interest in the PPC. I see it's stability is on a par next to Win9x... I guess it's the PalmOS for me for sometime.

Not compelling... Time for Plan 9

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:52:49 PM #
If this is going to save PALM, management had better start implementing Plan 9.

This device is expensive, not compelling, and nothing more than an incremental upgrade to the Palm VII. And truthfully, how many people actually used the Palm VII for email and surfing? Not many. Yes, I know some vociferous, indignant Palm VII user will respond, but please hold back your replies. Please.

Also, anyone else think that OS 5 is going to be disappointing? I'm afraid that late in the year, we're going to see nothing more than beefed up ARM-based OS 5 Palms that cost more and run the address book and phone list a heck of a lot faster with nothing else to add. If this is the "Zen of Palm", I'm about ready to jump off this sinking ship. Thank god for Sony. If it weren't for Sony we'd have Laurel and Hardy (Laurel = Palm, Hardy = Handspring).

RE: Not compelling... Time for Plan 9
mikecane @ 1/18/2002 2:48:10 PM #
Ed Wood, Jr. never intended to call it "Plan 9..." -- it was "Graverobbers from Outer Space." Should they be called in?

RE: Not compelling... Time for Plan 9
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:36:25 PM #
Yes, it's time to call Ed Wood and Vampirella to save the day at the B horror movie called PALM.


I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:03:52 PM #

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:39:52 PM #

Come on, look at Nokia 9210 communicator. It is zillion times better and with color.

If this is what palm has to offer then it better dig deeper in research to find something wireless and better than CLIE.

my 5 cents......oops 2 cents (sorry, fell asleep)

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:59:57 PM #
if the nokia communicator ever starts shipping in the US it will cost over $600 and I doubt the wireless rates will be much better.

The Brick
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:02:31 PM #
You mean the same Communicator everyone calles "The Brick"? Its twice as big as the i705, weighs twice as much and even costs twice as much!! 800 freaking US dollars. What a total brick!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:03:10 PM #
Nokia will get a sweet deal from AT&T and Voicestream and they will BUNDLE voice and data together!!! I pay $150/month voice and they give me the Nokia data for a few more bucks. Also, the Nokia will be SUBSIDIZED!


I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:11:09 PM #
Yes, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that your precious Nokia costs $800 friggin' dollars and is one of the ugliest pieces of "personal technology" ever.

"Smaller is better..."

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:22:23 PM #
Nokia 9210 might look ugly for you, but for most of the rest of the population on earth thinks it looks pretty cool.

Quite a good review on the communicator.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:22:32 PM #
The only review I could find is quite favorable

I heard it is selling well in Europe too. It is also a symbol of status. Why can't Palm make something elegant and make everyone want to own it?

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:27:01 PM #
9210 is too big, and icky OS.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:17:24 PM #
Seconded. Also sell thru is not good in Europe. Nokia sold a lot of units into distribution (as reported by Canalys - or Nokalys as they're known), but they have not sold through. Operators report low connection rates.

Have you tried using one? Mine crashed OUT OF THE BOX, and had to be hard reset. It's slow and runs out of memory VERY often.

sandbuck @ 1/18/2002 3:26:53 PM #
PPC makers and now Nokia STUBBORNLY refuse to understand that functionality menas NOTHING in a portable device if the device is not PORTABLE. If you walk around all day thinking "there's a brick in my pcoket, there's a brick in my pocket" you will not be carrying when the novelty wears off.


I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:56:22 PM #
Hmmm... Looks like we want:

(1) dual slots (CF and SD minimum),
(2) a relatively brisk 100-200MHz processor (physically replaceable) with an upgradable (flashable) OS,
(3) minimum of 16Mb of RAM (32 is preferable as standard) with capabilities to access a full 1Gb or more,
(4) a constant wireless data connection at >128Kbs with world access (CDMA, GSM, GPRS, etc.) along with email, IM, paging and voice capabilities with any provider for USD 10/month (USD 1/month with an annual contract),
(5) battery life in excess of 3-weeks of continuous (24/7) use with replaceable or rechargeable batteries (most likely AAA) with AC and car adaptor included,
(6) at least a 16-bit full-color screen (plastic, perhaps OLED) with full motion-picture capability, a resolution of 500x500 pixels, viewable in indoor and outdoor lighting with >1000:1 contrast,
(7) Bluetooth, WAN, LAN, AAN (all-area networks) enabled,
(8) voice recording/commands with full-stereo recording and playback of almost any type of format,
(9) and fully-configurable stylus and keyboard input methods.

Did I forget anything else? Oh, and make sure that the whole thing fits in a package no larger than 2x3x0.5-in, including batteries. I don't want more than one device in my pocket or belt.

Make the initial cost of buying these devices at USD 150.00, Fedex overnight shipping included. And if you signup with your local wireless provider, the unit is free with complementary annual, fully-hardware/software compatible upgrades.

Get what works... 'nuf said.

My USD 0.05.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:52:57 PM #
That is EXACTLY what I want! Excellent synopsis. I would even take 3 or 4 of those bullet points!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:24:05 PM #
"...something wireless and better than a Clie", sounds like you're talking about my HandEra 330 and it's symbol 802.11b card (or it's pocket spider CDPD card).

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:25:55 PM #
Actually, I wouldn't think that this checklist is all that unreasonable, given enough time. Perhaps we should check back in 5 years to see if the market has anything like this. Handera already has point 1 (CF/SD) and 1/4 of point 8 (voice recording mono WAV), and 1/8 of point 6 (240x320 4-bit mono). Sorry, but I don't want 2x3x.5. That's TOO small. I don't want a Rex, thanks.

Remember the Newton?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:59:17 PM #
A coworker was poking around some boxes today and discovered a Newton still in the box. It was HUGE! So little memory. This one was made in '93. I held it next to my 505 and was amazed at the progress made in 8 years. I suppose in 8 more years we'll have the device mentioned above. (Then we'll be complaining about something else.)

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 9:03:05 PM #
A coworker was poking around some boxes today and discovered a Newton still in the box. It was HUGE! So little memory. This one was made in '93. I held it next to my 505 and was amazed at the progress made in 8 years. I suppose in 8 more years we'll have the device mentioned above. (Then we'll be complaining about something else.)

Yes, it was huge, but there was nothing else like it back in '93 either. I had the Newton Messagepad 2100 (circa 1997) with a 10Mb memory card and an X-Jack 14.4kbps modem in PCMCIA format. This was the state of the art and my engineering colleagues were envious.

A little off-topic here, but if you haven't integrated the Messagepad 2100 into your life, you'll discover that some of its functionality is still beyond what the Pocket PC or the Palm OS can do. Its GUI was literally ideal.

On some nights, I still peruse the alleyways of the eBay streets to see how much a 2100 will run me these days :)

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 9:13:56 PM #
Actually, I wouldn't think that this checklist is all that unreasonable, given enough time. Perhaps we should check back in 5 years to see if the market has anything like this. Handera already has point 1 (CF/SD) and 1/4 of point 8 (voice recording mono WAV), and 1/8 of point 6 (240x320 4-bit mono). Sorry, but I don't want 2x3x.5. That's TOO small. I don't want a Rex, thanks.

----- From a previous post:

Yes, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that your precious Nokia costs $800 friggin' dollars and is one of the ugliest pieces of "personal technology" ever.

"Smaller is better..."


That's really the point, "...given enough time." I can't even imagine what the PDA would be like in 5 years. Heck, 4 years ago my Newton Messagepad 2100 was state-of-the-art. It wasn't small, but it was still state-of-the-art.

And as far as size is concerned, that physical parameter will never please everyone. Let's face it. We're not accustomed to seeing cell phone 'bricks'. They're just, well, too big to fit into our pockets. Likewise, we really can't use our PDA's effectively if the screen is as small as today's cell phone screens. We have to squint and contort our faces to get any use out of the darn things. And nevermind entering data using a stylus. That'll take up the entire screen! So there's really a compromise in the physical size of a PDA and phone combination. Some people take the cell phone side, and others take the PDA side; a no win situation.

For me, I have the Platinum/Visorphone combination. Sure it's big for a cell phone and the cell phone people will make me the laughing stock of the neighborhood; however, when I tell what I can do with the combination, the laughing abruptly stops and suddenly turns to envy. Here's where the PDA people reign kings. The size is just large enough to comfortably work with, yet versatile enough to even make mundane calls...and access email, surf the web, read my newsgroups, etc.

Just my USD 0.50.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 8:25:57 AM #
The 9210 is not selling that well in Europe. Most people who buy them , but them to replace their old communicators. Just about everyone thinks they are bloody enormous and expensive except for the people who *have* to have a mobile and pda (with keyboard!) combined in one. Also, the phone part is very ugly (too tiny screen) and it has been having quite a lot of problems (bugs, but that's no surprise with Nokia).

I'll take my seperate phone and pda over the 9210 anyday (still allows me to browse, email, etc).

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/20/2002 4:43:00 AM #
I think it is rather disappointing that Palm couldn't at least put 16MB of memory in this. That should be the minimum for the higher level handhelds and I don't think that is an unreasonable request considering Handspring has some models with that out already. A faster processor wouldn't hurt either.

Almost exactly as I predicted

Scott @ 1/18/2002 12:55:40 PM #
This is almost exactly as I predicted it would be.
* I was hopeful (but doubting) that they would be smart enough to reduce their monthly costs which, IMO, are the most prohibitive aspects of attracting non-business users.
* We all already knew that it would offer some sort of always-on instant email notification, so no prediction there, but I'm stating this because this is, IMO, the most prohibitive factor for business users.
* I expected (but hoped otherwise) that there would be no color, high-res, or integrated bluetooth (I'm most sorry about the lack of color).
* I didn't know about product price but predicted that it would be high. IMO, it is too high to attract non-business users.

In short, as I expected, this is a device which will be considered a disappointment from an average consumer perspective because the product is expensive, monthly costs are still expensive, it's not color (let along high-res).

That said, I think this has the potential to be very successful for Palm. "Huh?", you say. Well, I'm no expert on how Blackberry is doing financially, but if they are (which is what most people claim), this will compete *very* well against that device for the following reasons:
1) About the same cost (a bit more, from my calculations), but it integrates a Blackberry with a Palm (which most Blackberry owners own, I'd bet).
2) The monthly cost is cheaper than the Blackberry (I believe the Blackberry is $45 or $50 unlimited use)
3) Aside from all the PIM niceties, PQA web-clipping opens up a wealth of new possibilities (again, I'm comparing with the Blackberry).

Ed, one comment. According to Palm's site, their unlimited usage plan is currently $45, not $50.

What would I like to see them add/change? Lower cost and a color model. The B&W version should cost $350, and the color model $450. Remember, they make their money back from you on the monthly service. I'd also like to see unlimited usage down to $30 or lower, but with RIM as their only true competitor now and their primary focus being on business users, don't hold your breath.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott @ 1/18/2002 1:08:33 PM #
Actually, I'll add a new prediction. Within a very short time, there will be some sort of mail-in rebate to try to attract some non-business customers.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:13:49 PM #
When you look beneath the surface of RIMM's financials you might be suprised. For all the hoopla, you would think there were millions of customers, but the truth is that there are not that many more subscribers than there are for the Palm VII service.

* Total subscribers: 289,000
* # of corporate customers: 13,200 companies.

* Last Quarter's Revenue: $70.9 million
* Last Quarter's Net Profit: -$6.3 million.

* Same Quarter One Year Ago Revenue: $80.1 million
* Same Quarter One Year Ago Profit: -$17.5 million

Cash position
While the company continues to bleed cash at a rate of about $30 million per quarter, it has $656 million cash in the bank, so it can sustain operations comfortably for another 2-3 years.

Market Cap
PALM: $2.3 Billion
RIMM: $1.7 Billion
HAND: $0.8 Billion

Both PALM and HAND have greatly increased their market valuations the past 3 months. There was a time last Fall when RIMM was worth as much as PALM and HAND combined!

I guess we will all have to wait and see how much the TREO and i705 will contribute to HAND's and PALM's bottom line this year. I suspect a runaway success would be something in the magnitude of 150,000 units/ wireless subscriptions sold. The question is how much average profit per unit can each generate especially given their past experiences with sales forecasting and inventory management.

Let's keep our figers crossed and hope the wireless voice/data market lifts both companies substanially!

RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott @ 1/18/2002 1:19:46 PM #
A couple additions/corrections to my post:

* You can get a Blackberry 950 from for about $370 (I believe list price is $400).
* According to, unlimited access is available for $40/month.

The bottom line is the same. The monthly costs are cheaper than Blackberry's. The device is priced a bit higher but offers more functionality. The main downside as compared to the Blackberry, IMO, is the thumbboard. Even if Palm offers a thumbboard of it's own, it likely won't work as well as the Blackberry's due to the Blackberry's "length-wise" layout, making for more comfortable typing. Still, if this market is, indeed, viable, it looks to compare favorably.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott @ 1/18/2002 1:27:14 PM #
I can't stop myself. OK, one more comment. I just checked Aether Systems' web site (they offer $40/month wireless email service for the Blackberry). Wireless internet service costs an additional $15/month. So, again, this device looks good from that perspective.

Still, for consumer users who want wireless internet as cheap as possible, the best bang-for-the-buck service is $25/month from Verizon Wireless for CPDP service. Modems can be bought for as little as $50 (on clearance) from Handango for the Minstrel modems for V series or Handspring Visors. You can also buy the wireless PCMCIA card (for the iPaq) directly from Verizon Wireless for $100 (PCMCIA sleeve not included). Don't know how coverage compares and it's not always-on.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:28:48 PM #
Nothing but Trolls........If you Trolls hate Palm so much.......why are you here......

RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott @ 1/18/2002 1:32:49 PM #
Huh? None of these comments come across as "troll-like", IMO.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott @ 1/18/2002 1:34:10 PM #
BTW, thanks for the info on RIM (assuming it's accurate). However, it seems to me that the wireless service is offered by Aether Systems, not RIM. In which case, it would seem to me that RIM is only making money on the handhelds, not the service. If this is true, Palm's offering should still be sound. They can afford (maybe) to lose money on the devices if they make up for it in the monthly service costs.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:52:51 PM #
This all depends on what % revenue split PALM/HAND/RIMM was able to negotiate with their respective wireless carrier partners. I listed the number of subscribers because there is substantial churn-- meaning many customers buy the device but then cancel the service afterwords. Of course the device makers generate revenue from the sale of their devices, but the more interesting data point to gauge future business is at what rate are subscribers increasing vs. cancelling service. Right now RIMM is enjoying about a 10% quarterly net subscription increase.

RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
peter167 @ 1/18/2002 3:39:04 PM #
Scott, you are about to say all I want to say, and I may be a little bit too late. :-)

But let me add something more here. The i-705 is not for us, who always post on PIC. :-) It's primarily for enterprises which runs wireless e-business software that needs wireless data synchronization.

Do we know what e-business software will i-705 bundle with? Huh Huh, you bet. Who will be addressing a conference note in Palmsource in Feb? The company seems to begin with a letter S. Hmm...

Do enterprises complain about the Blackberrys are B/W? Are do enterprises complain about B/W for other handhelds? I think only us, once again, who have time to post on PIC, cares about color as much as their life. Enterprises will put their focus on cost/productivity issues, and useability.

Too bad that you or I cannot afford the unlimited plan, but Palm never intends to attract you for the unlimited plan at first. If you just want Internet access, you can probably use a cell-phone and use an ISP. But will enterprises care whether their employees and go to and see the bald head there? Enterprises want instant, real-time data synchronization for its deploy of e-business software.

You can buy your PDAs for entertainment, for songs or what movies if you dare. But you are not the enterprises. For those who troll about everthing on Palm and yet like to surf PIC, it is okay to express your anger but it just makes you more trollian. It won't hurt Palm sales and help PPC or RIM's sales in the long run.

Thank you.

RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott @ 1/18/2002 3:49:19 PM #
Interesting. Just checked Cingular's web site. The cost for their unlimited Blackberry usage is $60. This includes the internet access (which I previously mentioned Aether Systems charges $15 extra for). So, basically, Palm offers the same coverage and "must-have" feature of the Blackberry (instant email) in the same Cingular coverage areas for $35/month unlimited vs $60/month.

While the people here (and probably most price-conscious consumers) may be largely unimpressed, this has to have RIM worried.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott @ 1/18/2002 3:52:56 PM #
peter, exactly. I, myself, would like this to be color and cheaper. But, as you say, Palm is really gearing up to give the enterprise what they think they want. I posted this elsewhere but it bears repeating...

MS is betting that they can sell their devices to the enterprise based on the fact that they have higher-res screens, more processing power, can be developed for using VB.NET, and run "standard" Office type products. Wireless is just now being added, but it will add considerable size to a device that is already "considerably sized."

Palm is betting that the enterprise will be more impressed with their lower-cost, smaller, longer-battery life, more fully integrated wireless. They're hoping that they can live with using "non-standard" development tools and "Office" products which don't carry the Microsoft name.

Basically, MS is coming from the angle of a pocket-sized PC (aka laptop replacement), whereas Palm will be coming from the angle of combining a Blackberry with a Palm.

Who will win? I think they both will to some degree. There are some business applications which will require the processing power, high-res screens, and VB.NET-leverage that only the PPC can offer. But I think this will be a small percentage. I believe that most businesses (who are even deploying these things in large numbers at all) will be more attracted to a small Blackberry/Palm device.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:38:03 PM #
OK, I guess this thread is a stream-of-conscious monologue by dear Scott.

RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
peter167 @ 1/18/2002 5:41:32 PM #
From my perspective, RIM will be an immediate loser since Palm has a product that is directly competitor for the blackberries, yet Palm's monthly rate and hardware price are similar to what RIM is offering right now.

RIM will suffer a lot because Palm provides what the blackberries provides(instant email, etc.) and add what Palm had already provided (PIM, Programs, etc.), and yet selling at a similar price.

If anyone remember the interview from David Nagel, he already hinted/said that Palm is better to have alliance with e-business/service provider and provide e-business solution together, instead of selling only hardware or software. (That is the key of success here, which IBM had been doing for years. They do not only provide software or hardware alone.)

If you just turn back to take a look, no PPCs right now has the ability to connect to the Internet right out of the factory, and forget about instant e-mail. No e-business alliance with Compaq and Hewlett Packard, and forget Asus or Casio. If enterprises want to spend $499 for each unit, they will not want their employees only to edit word docs, listen to mp3s and watch animated gifs(movies) on their PDAs. They want something that can save money/time for their corporations, or at least improve the quality/control of manufacturing on the fields.

Any employees have access to a PC right now. They can basically do whatever PPCs has claimed what they can do. The fact is that you cannot carry PC with you and so does your PPC. It is only when Nasdaq is at 5000 so corporations can waste their money on upgrading their Windows from 98 to 2000, but not right now. Neither do enterprises like to spend $600 for a gadget. The device has to WORTH $600.

M$ can still continue to spend their marketing money on hype troll hype. You can hire a bunch of editors to bash Palms. But please tell us the exact NUMBER of handhelds running on only PPC 2002 has sold last quarter. Yes, the exact number, not the revenue, the % increase or any BS statistics or just OPINIONS. Only FACTs are welcome.

Thank you.

For those who trolled, your boss, if he ever pays you, is running out of steam right now. Their only hope is left only on the hands of .NET.

RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott @ 1/18/2002 9:29:33 PM #
I wonder why (some) people here assume the i705 was a competitive device vs. the RIM Blackberry?
a) corporates don't switch over to a different supplier all of a sudden
b) who said RIM couldn't lower the subscription plan prices?
c) what's the point in focusing on a competing with RIM, whereas people are (were!) waiting for innovative devices instead?

a) You talk as though all corporations that would want a Blackberry-type device have already purchased them. Rest assured, the market isn't saturated yet.
b) Nobody. Let's see if they do.
c) Because this market is a lot more lucrative than trying to compete head-to-head with Sony and MS on a multimedia handheld. If this works out, Palm makes money monthly.


RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
peter167 @ 1/18/2002 10:22:26 PM #
It's absurd that PPCs always beat their drums telling all of us all Palms are only for PIM. At least, Palm's new i705 is absolutely the best corporate device out there in the market. It has the following functions:

1)always-on email
2)instant manager
4)Programs, support for Microsoft Office
5)Sync with different OS
6)real time data synchronization wirelessly

I don't care whether your PDA is 1Ghz or not, but no PPCs have the capability of connecting to the Internet after leaving the office.

$35 per month on a year subscription is absolutely affordable and does worths these $35. These provides real WIRELESS data synchronization and always-on email.

Let's also talk a bit about Treo. First, you have to sign a contract to get the device price under $400. If not, it will be $539. Yes, it includes the voice function but then what?

1) GPRS deploy remains a question in the U.S. this year (every network provider claims they have this and will have that SOON)

2) The cost of GPRS service remains a bigger question because everyone neglects the cost for that. If you are going to compare prices with Europe, please add 30% premium over that because GSM is not the major mobile network standard here. Given the limitation of GPRS network deployment in 2002, you could expect a cost that is outrageous, just like what Palm VII charged everyone. If you dare to say $35 per month is expensive for unlimited access for i705, then it will cost you your life to use GPRS this year.

3) Finally, everyone forgets that Handspring makes great ideas but not good products. The visorphone is a good idea, but did not attract many audience because it is too expensive and bulky (as a phone) for general consumers. Hopefully, they will not flop big time. By the way, SpringBoard is a good idea but Handspring never executes well.

Too much more to say, but just let it end here.

How does IM work?

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:32:35 PM #
I thought an open TCP/IP connection was required to do IM. For example, I can't IM on a Palm VII right? If this is the same network how does it work?

RE: How does IM work?
Scott @ 1/18/2002 1:36:11 PM #
I think there's an app available which provides pseudo-IM for the Palm VII. I'd imagine that this new "always-on" functionality of the i705 makes this sort of thing easier and better integrated.


RE: How does IM work?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:46:27 PM #
Does this mean telnet clients will work on the i705 too? Could be a useful tool for network/sys admins. Get an e-mail or IM alert that some web server or web application is down, telnet to the machine and re-start the app or reboot the machine without even getting up from dinner. Or something like PalmVNC would work too.

RE: How does IM work?
Coyote67 @ 1/18/2002 6:09:23 PM #
Yes, 1 week later you'll be hacked through telnet :). SSH is what I want, not telnet. All an admin needs is something that'll give him his email, let him go online normally, to check to see if things are up, and be fully tcp/ip. That way I could use mocha ssh client.

Also what I need is blazer to start supporting php and asp.

When you have a Clie shoved up your mouth, you can only talk in vowels.

RE: How does IM work?
bcombee @ 1/19/2002 1:26:41 AM #
I wrote a "semi-instant" messenger app for the Palm VII last year -- it won one of the PalmHack awards at PalmSource 2000, but it never got widely used since it relied on servers run by the now-dead company for which I worked.

It worked like an IRC window, with one channel that everyone shared. On the Palm VII, it had a neat property -- when you flipped up the antenna, it would go check for new messages. I called it "Star Trek mode", since it reminded me of the communicators in the original series. Lots of people at PalmSource used it to communicate during the show, chatting about the sessions and arranging parties.

You didn't get realtime chat notifications, but whenever you wanted to check the log, you'd get all the updates. With this new i705, you'd actually be able to route message out to the devices when they get posted, rather than waiting on the device to pull them down. That makes the conversation seem a lot more instant -- you don't notice the device transferring data when you're not using it, but when you do use it, its all there with no obvious waiting.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead

Why there is no colour

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:30:35 PM #
It's time you all returned to the real world. There is no colour screen on the i705 because it isn't practical. Did you think Palm just *forgot* it? Is someone down at Palm reading this hitting himself on the forehead saying "Hey yeah, we SHOULD have made it color! Why didn't I think of that?" It has no colour screen because it would have given it a battery life of about 2 hours. Colour draws a lot of current. So does wireless access. Together, you have something that needs a battery the size of a deck of cards to get decent life. Would you really want a handheld you have to recharge at noon in order for it to last until the end of the day? NO. Have you seen the Nokia Brick available over here in Europe? It's both wireless and has a colour screen. It's about 4 TIMES the size of the i705. I think it weighs close to a kilogram and costs US$800. If Palm had put that out, you'd be screaming your fool heads off.

The i705 is a good compromise between size and battery life. Colour wasn't a possibility. I just hope there's a version I can use over here.

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:43:22 PM #
If it is not better than the Nokia brick then it is not better at all. If Nokia is a BMW I don't want a honda that saves gas (has a better mileage). I want something that's better. Ericsson's T68 has a color screen too and its not a brick.

Go on par with that.

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:03:36 PM #
And exactly how big is the T68's screen? 1"x1.5" is the standard format for their phones. The real battery killer is the backlight most color screens require.

Add 4 times the screen real estate, much longer use times on the backlight (minutes at a time instead of seconds), an SD reader, and the fact that the space for a battery is volumetricly smaller than the T68 and I just birdied your par.

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:05:57 PM #
This is 2002 and damn it, I want COLOR!!! Greyscale is SO 90's!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely no excuse...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:11:14 PM #
OK, so T68 has a smaller screen. But try CLIE 760 with wireless. How big is that going to be? In terms of real estate they could take out the MP3 chip and put in whatever is need for wireless. Take half of MS out (they are coming out with MS half the size) and I bet you can squeeze that piece of hardware in. Battery drain: down to T615c or halved. Do I care? No. I eagled.

FYI part of why Nokia's phone is a brick is because of the keyboard. Try to squeeze it down and you will see how impractical that can be (It is at least a three year old design already)especially for Europeans with big hands.

So just stop this crap about not having color and wireless. And I predict that Sony will come with one this year but in PHS (Japan's own system)

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:13:34 PM #
Well, you're either going to have to pay $800 for a god-awful ugly Nokia, or you'll have to wait until it's feasible...not possible, FEASIBLE.

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:16:19 PM #
no - the COLOR TREO is coming in 2002!!!!!

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:33:08 PM #
>> I think it weighs close to a kilogram and costs US$800. If Palm had put that out, you'd be screaming your fool heads off.

Preach the gospel!!

Treo is completely different
LarryGarfield @ 1/18/2002 6:33:57 PM #
Regarding the comment about the Treo, the Treo is completely irrelevant to the i705. The i705 is a wirelessly enabled PDA/Pager. The Treo is a cell phone, not a PDA. Let me repeat that:

*The Treo is a cell phone, not a PDA!*

Has anyone else actually held a Treo? The screen on it makes the m100 look wide and expansive. It's a cell phone that happens to run PalmOS to make the learning curve easier. It is NOT A PDA. It just runs a PDA OS because the designers were used to it, and already had a license for it. Handspring wants out of the PDA market (see previous story about the Springboard and Visor), because they're a consumer-space company. Sony is out to rip every other consumer PDA company appart, in as bloodly a fashion as possible. Handspring knows they can't compete with the 3 headed dragon that is Sony, so they're getting out of the line of fire while the still have money to do so.

The i705 is an entirely different animal. Palm created the wireless PDA/super-pager market with the Palm VII. Then they saw RIM, and said "hey, if we make one of those with PalmOS, that will be the best of both worlds!" And so they went and did exactly that. Is it evolutionary rather than revolutionary? Um, duh. You want a revolution every other week, try France in the 1790s. Not a pretty sight. Palm has always been about evolutionary upgrades to incrementally improve the product line over time. They add one feature at a time and try to make sure that they get that feature damn right, and most of the time they succeed. That was Jeff Hawkin's original philosophy, and at least that much has stayed with Palm even in his absence.

You want revolutionary, wait for OS 5. Until then, all you will see from any Palm company is evolution, not revolution. Revolution leaves bloody corpses lying across baracades. Evolution takes longer, but everyone is better off in the end.

This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:17:52 PM #
> You want revolutionary, wait for OS 5.

So? Where's the 'revolution' in having an ARM chip device? The others (Casio, HP, Toshiba, Compaq, Psion..)already have that for quite some time.
Palm will eventually arrive at the line the others have passed 2 years ago.

> Until then,all you will see from any Palm company
> is evolution,not revolution. Revolution leaves
> bloody corpses lying across baracades. Evolution
> takes longer, but everyone is better off in the end.

Interesting deductions, but based on a false assumption , based on a metaphor only.
Better quote the real world rather than using refined
rhetorics in order to convince people about a i705 device where in fact there is nothing convincing
about it and no innovation in it.

RE: *The Treo is a cell phone, not a PDA!* - WRONG!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:50:37 PM #

Yes, I HAVE held a Treo and the screen is not smaller than an M100.

It just appears smaller because while its overall size is smaller than the M100, the amount of extra plastic surrounding the screen on the Treo is less than the M100, so the Treo screen appears smaller. While I don't have the exact measurements on both screens, side-by-side comparison of the two models the screens do physically appear to be the same size.

And "*The Treo is a cell phone, not a PDA!*" is pure NONSENSE!!! Statements like this Larry only show how ignorant you really are.

Handspring itself says:

The Treo™ communicator is the one device that does it all. So you'll have your phone, Palm OS® organizer, email, SMS text messaging and wireless web all in one incredibly compact device.

What do you suppose a "Palm OS® organizer" is? A PDA perhaps? You'd think Handspring would know its own product wouldn't you?

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 6:34:05 AM #
The comment on battery life is way off base. Real experiences with the Sony(s), m505, and Samsung are not as fatalistic as the original message suggests.

Palm is way off on this one... too little, too late.

RE: Why there is no colour
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 8:31:13 AM #
"So? Where's the 'revolution' in having an ARM chip device? The others (Casio, HP, Toshiba, Compaq, Psion..)already have that for quite some time.
Palm will eventually arrive at the line the others have passed 2 years ago."

That's what you think. Others have passed that line and paid a huge price for it; form factor, battery life, stability (well, that's the os I guess). Palm os will be able to use the power of such processors much better and as such have more power when it comes to that. More importantly for me, they won't be a brick like the regular PPC, and might still have a decent battery life that lasts more than a day.

This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:57:24 PM #
This i705 is good for a Palm VIIx who likes the service but wants to upgrade their device.

The i705 will be no more as popular as was the Palm VII. Hence, no way will this help Palm hit the critical mass it so desperately needs.

RE: Treo killer...?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:14:48 PM #
How can you kill a product that isn't even out yet? I wouldn't count on any dominance for Treo before it's even released. 2 good reviews only get you so far.

As for RIMM, check out an earlier thread related to this story to see what the real story is here.

Everyone needs to simply CALM DOWN. This product is not a make-or-break item for Palm. It doesn't equate with Sony's upcoming offering, or even PPC 2002. It's intended to be an interim upgrade to the VII, not the uber-PDA you dream of. It might be a competitor of Treo(partially), but as I pointed out, TREO ISN'T EVEN HERE YET!!!!!

RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:22:31 PM #
Neither is the i705 here yet.

RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:26:36 PM #
Palm's only chance to survive is to use Arthur Anderson as their Accountants.

RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:35:14 PM #
>> Palm's only chance to survive is to use Arthur Anderson as their Accountants.


RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:39:32 PM #
Sorry, but the original poster very wrong in saying this is just an upgrade for Palm VII owners. This device offers far better wireless service (with a real Internet connection and always on to receive messages) for a better price than what was available for the VII. I had zero interest in and PQAs. This service is completely different, and far more than just some insignificant upgrade to the VII.

RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
Coyote67 @ 1/18/2002 6:11:41 PM #
Ok, as a person who constantly uses a blackberry, let me chim in for a sec.
Blackberrys are a very niche market, and because of this, there are few apps for it. So if you want to dump your palm, which supports 10,000+ apps and go for a blackberry which supports maybe 1000, be my guest. And while you're at it, shoot yourself in the foot first. Second, browsing the net on the blackberry, isn't exactly a good time. Go.America's client is weak, slow, and has horrible support. So browsing the web is basically dead on it. My company wrote its own browser because it was so bad. Sadly they refuse to rls it or even opensource it.
2. You have a good time expanding the blackberry. Once you find out how, we'll all praise and call your name. Expansion slot:0

Blackberry is really made just for email, and it does it well. But you are really limited to email. Like I said, you can put more apps in, you can write your own. But don't expect it to be a palm.

This might find a niche in the corp field because of the app support and the ease of finding dev tools. But its not going to be a Treo killer because it doesn't have voice. If anything Treo would kill the i705 as no company wants to support two devices for one person, aka a pda and a cell phone. They are doing this already with the current palms or the blackberrys. I really don't see this doing that well. Its niche is smaller than the blackberry. You got the corp field, who is a. using a device (blackberry) for this functionality already. b. can't afford to switch to a new one unless there is a clear benefit or a savings.
Treo would do better in these areas because you are taking 2 devices, and combining, providing less work for it, and saving money on provider fees, product fees, and maintennce. Same reason a lot of corporations are giving people laptops instead of normal pcs. Why would you give someone a pc, who in the future, might need to get a laptop. Why not give them a laptop from the start and save on future spending and support? This is where the treo comes in.
I just can't understand what market the i705 will live in.

When you have a Clie shoved up your mouth, you can only talk in vowels.

RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:33:34 PM #
exactly - dont bitch about the price of the Treo because you are getting TWO DEVICES which mitigates cost.

RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
Scott @ 1/18/2002 6:49:15 PM #
I think there's far more companies issuing pagers than there are issuing cell phones. In fact, unless you're in sales or are one of the owners in your company, I doubt you're being issued a cell phone. As such, I think an always-on device like the i705 is going to be a lot more attractive than the Treo.

Every company that would get a Blackberry already got them so they aren't going to reissue these things, huh? OK. The Blackberry market is still expanding. This cuts into that.


RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:18:24 PM #
not at $35 per month. I can get a good cell phone plan for that cost. pager service only costs 5 bucks/month or less and its free with cell SMS. This i705 is too expensive.

RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
Scott @ 1/18/2002 9:35:44 PM #
Exactly. For you and most consumers, this probably won't make sense. For businesses, it does. They'll pay $35/month per person for unlimited email access. They won't pay $35/month for a limited amount of voice minutes which the person could go over on or use for non-work purposes.


Palm Sux... better sell your stock!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:20:45 PM #
Ummm 19.95unlimited and this thing would be a winner. Again Palm, you fail. Prediction... Palm is sold for peanuts to Sony this year! Better yet Sony buys Palm and Stupidspring as well. Treo... a joke, people had better realize data calls are not free, they go against your airtime with the carriers that will use the Treo. Unless you can afford a mega phone bill I would look elsewhere. Before all you "my Palm is my best friend people"start flaming me do you recall Omnisky?? Bust... RIM... going bust.... Richochet BIG bust.... Face it wireless is 3 years off to where it will be affordable. If 1people wont spend $50 for DSl why the heck would they spend $40 for wireless email. Someone please check Palm's offices and see if there is monkey running the helm. The people running Palm have taken the most successfull handheld company and run into the ground, not suprising since the same morons ran 3com into the ground too!! Ohh Palm and Hand**** so you thoink people are willing to spend another $400 on a handheld that does not offer any substantial improvement over the dated garbage you already make? You guys must think people are stupid!
I am wiping the dust of my Newton ;) **** Palm


RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:37:55 PM #
Sony will buy Palm? What an absolutely facinating theory that we have never heard proposed on this website before.

RE: Sony Sux... better sell your stock!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:38:36 PM #
Dear Sony Nut,

Sony has a wireless service, too. And what do you know, it charges $40 a month for unlimited wireless access, too. You might not have heard of MYLO because only low-end Sony models have a modem. There isn't one at all for the N or T series. And before you scream out that the S and N series use the same connector, the rest of the handhelds are different enough that the giant, ugly modem Sony offers that it can only connect to an S320 or S360.

Check for yourself:

Somehow I think it will be a while before Sony is even a little bit competetive with the i705 or the Treo.

Huggs and kisses,
Larry the Tomato

RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:48:48 PM #
Why do you bother posting this garbage? Why didnt you keep your stupid thoughts to yourself. You must be 12 or something..You certainly act liek it.

RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:25:41 PM #
No I am not 12 but you write like a 12 year old (lieke??) retard, I bet you will be the first one to have 705i! Geek!

Hush, the adults are talking now
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:53:17 PM #
So that's your whole response? Criticize him for mis-keying and call him a retard? Oh, you've over-whelmed us all with the logic of your arguments!

p.s. Admit it, you are 12 years old.

RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:41:41 PM #
please don't insult 12 year olds like that.
Sony will not but palm because that brings down a list of legal situs on sony, however i wouldn't be suprised if palm was picked up by say IBM or Dell to compete with intel, MS, or compaq. I am how ever going to be dissapointed in palm if this is their idea of new and innovative. but then again palm has suprised me as of late by letting me down

RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:33:31 PM #
What an entertaining thread! Everybody enjoys a good flame war every now and then. You can tell it's Friday.

RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:39:46 PM #
> p.s. Admit it, you are 12 years old.

Yes, I'm 11 years old and far more intelligent than you. So, take a hike.

You must have been playing with your barbie doll at that age.

Cingular & the Palm VII

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:36:00 PM #
Does the Palm VII currently use the Cingular Interactive wireless network?

RE: Cingular & the Palm VII
Scott @ 1/18/2002 3:41:20 PM #
This is from an ancient Palm press release:

"While the BellSouth network is based on Mobitex technology from Ericsson, the core components of the Palm VII organizer and the Palm.Net system are built on standards that are completely network-independent, so future support for other wireless data standards is possible."

It's basically the same network that Cingular uses for it's Blackberry coverage.

RE: Cingular & the Palm VII
bcombee @ 1/19/2002 1:33:33 AM #
One of the companies that merged to form Cingular was BellSouth Wireless, so the i705 is using the exact same network that the Blackberries and the VIIs are using.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead

MS ''black ops''

mikecane @ 1/18/2002 2:50:19 PM #
All of the "anonymous" trolls who are actually being paid to post here by Microsoft, please raise your hand...

RE: MS ''black ops''
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:51:29 PM #
Yes - you can continue to delude yourself and blame all of Palm's problems on a conspiracy network of MSFT trolls. This is same as Steve Jobs "Reality Distortion Field".

RE: MS ''black ops''
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:44:31 PM #
It's a Kabal dammit!! A KABAL!!

RE: MS ''black ops''
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:41:44 PM #
Yes, I'm a paid mercenary for Scott McNealy.

I'm on a mission to bad mouth MicroShaft so bad that Sun Microsystems will win the day to become the monopolist that Scott has always dreamed about.

I hear Scott forces his St. Bernard dog, Network, to whiz on a fire hydrant painted with the Microshaft logo every morning. It provides a lot of relief for him before he drives his Mercedes S-500 into work.

It's the software, ....!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:45:51 PM #
In spite of the nothing-new hardware, I'm excited about the functionality of this new device: always-on pushed email, instant messaging and a better browser; all in a small form factor.

The functionality seems like a big improvement over the Palm VII. I'm getting one!

RE: It's the software, ....!
Scott @ 1/18/2002 3:40:29 PM #
Finally, someone who sees the value in this.

It's not aimed at the multimedia crowd, people.


RE: It's the software, ....!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:16:57 PM #
true that

RE: It's the software, ....!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:53:30 PM #
> It's not aimed at the multimedia crowd, people.

And neither is OS 5.

RE: It's the software, ....!
Scott @ 1/18/2002 6:53:36 PM #
"> It's not aimed at the multimedia crowd, people.

And neither is OS 5."

Precisely. More good news.

I must admit I was a bit worried that Palm might cave in to all of the tech "journalists" who thought they were going to go bankrupt if they didn't offer horrible quality compressed video on their PDAs.


Thats it????? thats the "pssst pssst"?

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:02:33 PM #
Ive known about the m700 ever since i started researching on the m505. Seriously,,is this the one???

Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:14:44 PM #
Who the hell wants to pay separate Cellphone bill and wireless email bill..

isnt this too much
Cellphonebill $39 at least
Internet bill $39 (broadband)
Wireless net $39....
Phonebill $14

i mean cmon...thats too much for an average user...just to "communicate"... I think treo will do better...but only if they have expansion. Im gonna be passing on both.


RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
Scott @ 1/18/2002 3:36:16 PM #
You're absolutely right. This isn't targetted at the average consumer, it's competing with the RIM market. If Palm, Inc. thinks that this *is* targetting the average consumer market, I think they are confused. To be sure, some power-users who want instant email and such will justify paying the extra cost. I might actually be one of them, except that I really do want color (not even so much for the color, per se, as much as for the improved readability).

One way I could justify it is if I changed my wireless phone plan to a much lower plan (since I could now use this device to communicate with people whom I might otherwise use my phone). I could easily save $15 there. Then, I'm just paying $20 more than I used to for the benefit of instant email, etc.


RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:47:15 PM #
I'm with ya. I had Omnisky and dropped it after a year due to the cost. I realized after awhile that I really didn't need to look at my e-mail every 10 minutes. It's just not that critical.

It looks like this new Palm is geared solely towards the corporate user, and it appears Palm is trying to deploy this as a "Blackberry Killer". I'm not a corporate user, so this Palm does nothing for me.

Even if I were an average corporate user, I'd be purchasing a Sony T615 or I'd wait for the color Treo before I bought this thing.


RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:44:57 PM #
Good point on the total cost of ownership (TCO).

Frankly, if this is communication, I'd rather be incommunicado.

I have a cell phone ($69), broadband ($50), Earthlink account for modem access ($20), and landline ($50). That's a cool $189 a month for communication. There is no way, I'm going to pay for email access by the kilobyte. No way.

And most corporations are happy with the RIMM. I am. I have a small RIMM that's sized like a pager and I'm NOT going to trade it for an oversized i705.

So, Palm is going to have a hard time convincing the enterprise let alone consumers that the i705 device and the crazy pricing is a compelling value.

Good luck, Palm. You gonna need it. Glad I sold the stock for a tidy profit before it crashed.

RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
Scott @ 1/18/2002 6:55:51 PM #
Check your data. The Blackberry monthly rates are *higher*. Also, I expect that the i705 is going to turn out to be a lot smaller than you might think.


RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 10:29:24 AM #
I couldn't have said it better myself. Honestly, if Samsung can put voice and wireless together in a decent package, surely Palm could follow suit. It's one thing to be unable to innovate; it's another whole bowl of feces if you can't even copy.

As a road warrior, I'd love to be able to use one device on my Sprint network that can do voice/Palm/modem and still fit in my suit or pants pocket. I would be willing to pay a LOT for that sort of convenience. Let Palm go after the low hanging fruit like me, first. When prices drop and the technology gets better, they can go after the masses.

RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:28:47 AM #
So why not just buy a Samsung? I have one myself and it's pretty small. Overall I like it, but it hasn't met my wireless desires. They didn't incorporate flash ROM (or, at least, don't seem willing to tell anyone), haven't cooperated with developers, and you have to "dial-in" to do any wireless stuff. Myself, I like the idea of always-on, but I don't think I could go back to B&W, mainly due to the lack of contrast in various lighting conditions.

BTW, based on several press releases Palm looks to be working on a GSM/GPRS solution. Still, GPRS is in it's infancy right now (and GSM coverage in general still stinks overall in the US). The Mobitex network is fairly established and the VIIx/i705 makes good use of it.


RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 12:39:26 PM #
Scott, I'm really tempted by the Samsung, but the color screen is sort of lacking (esp. in comparison to the Clie). The lack of USB is a bummer since I'm a Macophile (although I also have PC's), and the inability to add expansion cards isn't so good either.

The Samsung seems to be a cell phone with a Palm thrown in - it has a nice form factor, but I was hoping for a little more for my money. It definitely has everything a cell phone user would want. Maybe I'll just buy one for now and upgrade to something better next year.

RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:00:10 PM #
It's a very good phone and a good PDA. But it's certainly not a great PDA nor a perfect phone. Brightness/contrast is great. Color saturation is pretty poor. The thing I like the least is that it is 0S 3.5 and I've seen no signs that it can/will be upgradeable. As I've stated elsewhere in this thread, OS 4.x offers some small but significant improvements to web-clipping which would be pretty important in a smartphone, IMO.


O Sony Where Art Thou?

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:22:29 PM #

RE: O Sony Where Art Thou?
Scott @ 1/18/2002 3:39:36 PM #
Do a search on their site for MYLO. They offer a PCMCIA sled for their low-end series which offers CPDP service at $40/month unlimited.


If I don't get a m525 out of CeBit

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:23:13 PM #

Consider me Sony-fied

RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBit
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:50:02 PM #
You're in for a disappointment. Sony's solution for wireless is much worse than this. You can only get a modem for the S series and the modem is about the size of Rhode Island.

If wireless is what you want, the ranking is:
Handspring Treo
Palm i705
<big gap>
Sony S360 with modem

RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBit
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:54:09 PM #
Umm...Sony's (lack of) wireless options has nothing to do with the rumored m525. I believe the above poster just means that Palm is producing a lot of hype over what is just a glorified update to the VIIx, one that should've been released months ago. If Palm introduces this joke i705 along with an "m525" (i.e. 16MB Ram and 320x320 color, as the very minimum upgrades, to at least compete with Sony's offerings), then people will regain *some* faith in Palm's hardware division...

Palm is dead if they continue this way
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:59:33 PM #
Palm is dead if they don't release a new PDA running on OS with mp3 capabilities,high resolution (i.e 320*320) and video capabilities.
I hope that Palm will stay alive otherwise Micro$oft is going to eat them with their .net technologie.
Come on Palm.

Where's the Zen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:19:04 PM #
Lets hold hands, sigh and remember 1997...

RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBit
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:34:53 PM #
"You are getting sleeeepy, sleeepy. Now, repeat after me, 'Siiiimple is beeeetter. Siiiimple is beeeetter.' When you wake up, you will believe this wholeheartedly, and you will never again have a desire to own a Sony Clie or Compaq iPaq."

(an old Carl Yankowski brainwashing tactic that stopped working a few years ago)


RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBit
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:39:31 PM #
Forget Sony. They keep coming out with a handheld of the month. The flavor today is T615c, last week, T415c, before that, N760, or was that S360. Oh I forget. Who cares. If you want to actually use it with keyboards, cases, etc., too bad. Who wants to keep up?

Buy what you like, enjoy it, accept the fact that tomorrow something new, faster, better and shinier will be out, and stop whining because you regret the fact that the $400 piece of aluminum you just bought is obsolete as you walk out of the store. Deal with it.

And enough with the Palm death announcements. Give it a rest. When they die, they die. And then we'll buy something else.

Go outside and get some air people.


RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBit
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:49:03 PM #
Palm is dead if they don't release a new PDA running on OS with mp3 capabilities,high resolution (i.e 320*320) and video capabilities.


My friend you have just described a PocketPC. If Palm doesn't deliver, then it's time, my friend, to upgrade to a real handheld and not some funky day-time planner.

RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBit
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:40:09 PM #
"Continuous growth (is) essential for us to achieve our other objectives and to remain competitive. Since we participate in fields of advanced and rapidly changing technologies, to remain static is to lose ground."

- Dave Packard, Founder, HP

I hope Palm finally realizes this.


Well, Carly sure doesn't.

RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBit
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 12:18:46 AM #
> My friend you have just described a PocketPC.

You're that 11-year-old troll again, aren't you? I told you to hush. The adults are trying to have a serious discussion and we don't have time to pay attention you now. Go play with your GameBoy.

Has everyone forgotten the Samsung?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 10:40:02 AM #
If only it had a nicer screen and USB.

The truth is hard to swallow.. so open wide!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:49:16 PM #
re: Blackberry
Bah. The reason why corporations, such as my own, integrate blackberry into their system is to allow users to get access to their corporate email and calendar from a wireless device. I see no mention of how the Palm i705 will accomplish this.

This is fact: 2 years ago, everyone had a Palm VII at my corporation. Now they all have blackberries. Why? Because Corporate IS setup a blackberry server to interface with our MS Exchange system. Nobody is going to give up their blackberry and Corporate IS is not going to install ANOTHER wireless email server.

What's really sad is that Blackberry is replacing the Palm products and it's doing it with an idiot Psion like interface.

re: Palm screwed up
Palm screwed up. A b&w i705 is just not going to cut it. What I wanted was an updated m505 with internet access.

I have carte blanche, meaning I can buy just about any handheld I want and put it on the company's tab, but I wont be getting a i705. It's not that much better than the Palm VII I already one.

Ill have to wait and hope that Sony makes a wireless device or the Treo color lives up to the hype.

re: Nokia
Ever try writing a WML application? Nokia is off the charts with it's standards. Who knows what planet they are on, but in the US, they might as well be on Mars.

re: Color screen
It's called rechargeable batteries. Im sure the thousands of WinCe owners get along just fine.

re: 35.00 bucks a month plan
No big whoop. Ill expense it anyways ;-)

re: "it's not aimed at the multimedia crowd"
Come on. As someone said, this is 2002! The FIRST Palm Pilot Pro I bought was grayscale. If I could peek in the future and see that the Palm for 2002 would also be grayscale, I would have keeled over in disgust.

Let me ask you this. What if Microsoft was hyping it's new product and when it FINALLY came out after a year of speculation, it was a B&W pda? You would be the first to laugh at M$. I think Palm's stock price speaks for itself.

I'm not a pro M$ guy or pro Linux guy or pro Palm guy. I just want the best product. I have owned the Palm Pilot Pro, Palm V and Palm VII. I work on unix systems. I run w2k on my laptop. I have a redhat server in my house. Im company egnostic. Flame away, but you're only kidding yourself. Maybe Palm will read this and get their ass back in gear. What the hell have they been doing all this time? I'll tell you ... wasting time making crappy M105's with cheetah covers.... please!

RE: The truth is hard to swallow.. so open wide!
peter167 @ 1/18/2002 6:08:05 PM #
I can assure everyone that the IM guy above has no experience working in the IT department or even working in a coporation.

Can any employees request an IT personnel, "Hey, Peter, I want a Compaq laptop running Windows XP. Also, I want a PPC, preferabblly I-paq 3850. Buy me three pack of chewing-gum batteries, too."?

What employees want is usually different what corporations want. (Employees want longer vacation, arrive later and leave earlier. :-))

No need to worry. Mr. I.M. You cannot even afford an M-100 in your pocket because you spend all the money you have investing in PPCs. And yet you cannot face the reality that the I-paq is more useless in real life than an ordinary Vx. Just get a good sleep, and have a brain-wash. You could see a clear picture of how Palms and PPCs are combating.

For anyone who troll Palm's handhelds are only dayplanners, could you please find something more interesting to say? It becomes boring. Of course, you can insult anyone you want personally, and that's what you have done in the past. Yes, my Palm handheld cannot do anything, including e-mail attachments, word docs, or whatsoever. You batteries are solar-energy based, which can aborbs solar energy to recharge yourselves, or are they running hydrogen gas?

RE: The truth is hard to swallow.. so open wide!
Scott @ 1/18/2002 6:58:21 PM #
"re: Blackberry
Bah. The reason why corporations, such as my own, integrate blackberry into their system is to allow users to get access to their corporate email and calendar from a wireless device. I see no mention of how the Palm i705 will accomplish this."

Huh? That is *exactly* what this device does.


RE: The truth is hard to swallow.. so open wide!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 1:28:28 AM #
Yes. Ditto on what Scott said. This device is designed to do exactly what the original poster is claiming it won't do. There is way too much FUD in the threads related to this news item. The service provided by this device is nothing like that of the Palm VII. What the i705 provides (a real Internet connection, with new message alert capability) is far better plus cheaper than what is available for the VII.

RE: The truth is hard to swallow.. so open wide!
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:34:39 AM #
Thanks for agreeing with me but I think I have to disagree with you a bit...From what I know the i705 uses the exact same network as the VIIx. The primary difference, I believe, is that Palm made some OS (and maybe hardware) changes to the i705 and some sort of server changes on their end (their proxy server) such that it can now push email/notifications out and the i705 can "wake-up" after receiving them. I wouldn't get too excited about the web browsing "announcement" as I tend to think that this is nothing more than what some current PQA browsers offer for the VII.

Basically, this is a small but significant change to the VII. I have no inside information. I'm basing my opinions on my "analysis" of this news item, press releases and "financial conference calls" (public to all) on the Palm web site, and information on the Palm site which summarize the changes made in OS 4.0 from a developer's perspective.


RE: The truth is hard to swallow.. so open wide!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 2:51:33 PM #
"I wouldn't get too excited about the web browsing "announcement" as I tend to think that this is nothing more than what some current PQA browsers offer for the VII."


I'm not the anonomous you disagreed with, but I disagree with you. I don't know why you downplay the web browsing "announcement". Since browsers are the primary web interface, they are one of the most strategic components. I suspect this could be one area where Palm hits one out of the park.

What I want...

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:43:05 PM #
I want an m505 with:

200Mhz Processor
128MB Native RAM
640x640 Super-Hi Res
Built-In Wireless Data (a la RIMM and True Internet)
Built-In Phone/Ear Jack
Virtual Graffiti (for Mike Cane)

I will pay up to $999.

Just give me this and I'll be happy.

Is this really too much to ask in 2002?

RE: What I want...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:50:57 PM #
Is this really too much to ask in 2002?


No, it isn't. It's called a PocketPC. The only thing missing would be 640x640 resolution, but the 320x240 resolution at 16-bit is pretty frickin' sharp.

And guess what? You don't have to pay $999. Check out your local CompUSA.

RE: What I want...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 8:36:51 PM #
more trolls!!!! trolls trolls everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: What I want...
peter167 @ 1/18/2002 10:47:02 PM #
What that guy want is the hardware specs but not Microsoft's crappy operation system.

Just like I have a PIII running Mandrake. I don't want XP.

The OS/software is one big component for a handheld.

CompUSA never sells a PDA with PPC hardware but not a crappy OS. ^_^

That makes the trollians understand that the software/OS is also important.

If Microsoft announced that they will charge IE for $20 tomorrow, everyone will switch to use Netscape. It is just that simple.

RE: What I want...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 8:23:54 AM #
> If Microsoft announced that they will charge IE for $20 tomorrow, everyone will switch to use Netscape. It is just that simple.


Yes, but only PALM would be stupid enough to make a bone-headed move like that. Heck, they're already doing it with the i705 pricing.

As for Netscrape. It's a buggy piece of ****e and obviously you haven't used it for a long time. I would use Opera.

RE: What I want...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 1:29:36 PM #
I would pay $20 for MS IE.

Blackberry is Doomed

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:00:12 PM #
I don't care how cool you think the Blackberry is, RIM is doomed. They've make a gee-wizz device that costs $60 a month to use. Yeah, some companies will pay that but not very many. It can't do anything but email, can it? How about opening email attachments? Can you load third-party applications onto it? Are there over 10,000 third party apps written for it already? Is it color? As soon as they run out of their starting capital, RIM'll be in Chapter 11, yet another failed high-tech startup.

RE: Blackberry is Doomed
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:36:53 PM #
But AL GORE uses the Blackberry!

RE: Blackberry is Doomed
LarryGarfield @ 1/18/2002 6:46:05 PM #
Al Gore was a beta tester for the Palm VII, he's said so in interviews. :-)

This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA
RE: Blackberry is Doomed
robrecht @ 1/18/2002 11:10:23 PM #
Al Gore? I give up.

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Blackberry is Doomed
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 8:26:19 AM #
> I don't care how cool you think the Blackberry is, RIM is doomed.


Are you stupid or something? RIMM is doing well(and please spell the company properly, please).

Blackberry does one thing and one thing extremely well: email. And for email it works better than anything out now. I use it all the time. And frankly attachments aren't an issue. The blackberry allows you to forward attachments. Obviously, you've never used one so your rantings really display your gee-nius.

RE: Blackberry is Doomed
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 11:02:38 AM #
> RIMM is doing well(and please spell the company properly, please).

It's everyone else who is spelling the name wrong. Go to and read how Research in Motion spells it. Here's a quote: "Research In Motion (RIM) is a world leader in the mobile communications market and has a history of developing breakthrough wireless solutions."

What did you think the second M stands for? The name of the company is Research In Motion.

Open mouth, insert foot, chew vigorously.

I am going to.......

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:29:24 PM #
oooohhohh I am going to ....... not get excited over this piece of garbage. Umm Mesa thinks Palm is a floundering whale.... thar she blows Bill ... load the harpoon I think we have a big one!! ummm Bill you are a good shot... "why thanks Jeff" are you excited or is that a Treo in your pocket?
Ohhh Arigato.. you needa hi-res screen with mucho memory stick to have a good Palm.. buy Sony... don't delay a new one be out soon with mucho patched OS to maka hi res screen workie and crashie your progams ;)
Go way Steve you go play with Ipod!!


I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 9:10:16 PM #
I'm sorry, but knowing that Palm OS 5 is on the horizon this year, and that the platform is moving to StrongArm chips for that OS... it would seem that I'm not upgrading until the StrongARM handhelds ship with the new OS. Of course, when a wireless version will ship who knows, but I won't be upgrading my VII to an i705. I can live without always on access... it's just not enough to make me upgrade.

RE: Why?
Scott @ 1/18/2002 9:43:55 PM #
Actually, you bring up an argument which probably *should* be discussed here (or on the forums).

If you have a VII, is it worth upgrading? Or, if I don't have either and am interested, should I buy a VIIx or the i705?

As you said, if you don't need instant email notification, that is a serious consideration. Also, for those that don't have either, you can currently get a VIIx for $199 (-$100 rebate which I think is expiring soon). I believe the i705 will be quite a bit smaller (as well as built-in antenna) and will have an SD slot.

But there's another significant change. The VIIx can't be upgraded to OS 4.0 due to ROM size limitations. There are some small but significant enhancements to web-clipping in OS 4.0. If this thing is successful, it's quite possible that new PQA's will come out which are incompatible with the VII-series.


RE: Why?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/20/2002 6:31:05 PM #
You can never upgrade into a Palm OS 5.0 device. Palm OS 5.0 will run on ARM 7, not StrongARM chip.

Is this a joke! Total b.s.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 10:09:52 PM #
I don't care what anyone has to say good about this device. The specs detail a device that should have came out way back. Why 8mb only, 160x160 screen, pricey plans, and nothing else to go for. OS5 is coming in the 3rd quarter, so I expect palm sales for the first half of the year to suck. This device will not help Palm, and I think no other. They have no money to do anything besides upgrade the current models if that. They will spend their time with OS5 devices, and sail through with the current models. There are others (Handera & SONY) who are pushing the envelope with the current OS. It's amazing. Color is going to be the standard no matter what. We all lived through the orange and green pc monitors, and color became the defacto. With battery technology growing, we will have color standard. The color models we have today are beautiful and last longer than PocketPC's. We have alot to be grateful. This model is just a big joke, and I'm done laughing. NEXT!!!!

RE: Is this a joke! Total b.s.
Scott @ 1/18/2002 10:57:05 PM #
Most of this post isn't worth responding to, but I do want to use it to respond to the analogy of transitioning from monochrome to color desktop monitors. The analogy just doesn't work. A desktop user doesn't care if the color monitor is heavier than a monochrome monitor (in fact, I think they were). They also don't care how much more power they use, since they get plugged in.

On a handheld, a color screen adds cost, size & weight, and considerable power drain. These are critical considerations when dealing with handhelds, they mean very little (other than cost) in the desktop environment.

Will there be a day when Palm stops making B&W handhelds? Yes, but not for quite a while. As battery technologies improve and color screens drop further, color will become more prevalent in low-end devices.

Lastly, remember that wireless sucks considerable battery life too.


RE: Is this a joke! Total b.s.
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 12:18:38 AM #
wow, sounds just like the post above. Did you come up with all that insightful details about color all by yourself?

Face it, Palm needs to change things to survive. And this device isn't it buddy.

No one cared about color monitors? Which world did you live in Scott when those new color monitors came out? We as humans, prefer color over b&w any day. The color handhelds today are great examples of what can be done. No need for b&w. Do you see any high end b&w devices selling? I don't think so.


RE: Is this a joke! Total b.s.
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 6:45:57 AM #
Scott, with all due respect, your arguments are old and weak with regard to color et al. This is 2002 and the statements you have made were more in-line with a couple of years ago.

The consumer mindset and technical capabilities are more congruent than would be suggested in your comments.

Instead of trying to protect this old argument, try to get into the cognitive place where many are writing from here... it is a valuable lesson that Palm should pay attention to.

RE: Is this a joke! Total b.s.
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 9:33:27 AM #
I agree that Palm needs to listen to the users. Color and mp3 capabilities are old threads that keep going on here. But the bottom line is that some users want these features and more. I don't think any new palmos device should come with 160x160 res. We all know what the new os4 can do but Palm keeps giving us old features in their new devices. Why?

They can't complain after if they do poorly this year. The new os5 devices coming out this year, will be another challenge. Most users will wait to upgrade now or buy something else.

RE: Is this a joke! Total b.s.
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:42:34 AM #
Did you all fully read my reply above?

I'm sorry, but battery life for color *HAS NOT* arrived. Let's leave the issues of added size, weight, and price alone for a minute. I'm really out of touch with how long a B&W m100 lasts on it's AA (or is it AAA?) batteries, but for the sake of argument, let's say it's 3 weeks (this is probably *EXTREMELY* conservative). Is there a color device that can come even remotely close to this? No. End of discussion.

Just to clarify, my point was not that Palm should disregard color, simply that B&W offers *MUCH IMPROVED* battery life which becomes even more important when you add wireless to the mix. Would *I* like a color version of the i705? Yes. Would *I* like more high-end color Palm devices? Yes. Is Palm making a mistake by offering this device in B&W? No.


RE: Is this a joke! Total b.s.
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 4:50:17 PM #
Perhaps Palm isn't completely wrong in offering a monochrome i705, but they are wrong for not offering a color model along with it, or at least

RE: Is this a joke! Total b.s.
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 4:55:19 PM #
Palm isn't completely wrong in offering a monochrome i705, but they are definitely wrong for not offering a color model along with it, or at least announcing that they'll be releasing one a few months after the monochrome, like Handspring is doing with the Treo. Aside from the Visor announcement slip-up, Handspring seems to know what they're doing, for once.

And for sub-standard features of the i705, they can't possibly justify the current price. Even if it had voice, $400 is still too much. The standard features on Palm-powered devices are 16MB Ram (Sony T615/S360, Handspring Treo/Visor Pro) and a jog dial (All Sony's, Treo, Handera 330). If Palm doesn't include these minimal features, I'd sit back and wait for the Treo or cross my fingers that Sony gets into this game.

RE: Is this a joke! Total b.s.
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:07:01 PM #
I'll actually be a bit surprised if there isn't some color announcement. Remember, this thread is about some info that was *leaked*. Palm hasn't made any official announcement yet. Who knows, maybe they intentionally leaked some limited info just to make the real news more exciting (wishful thinking). They get pretty good battery life on an M505 now (though brightness is much too low, IMO) so I would be surprised if a reflective color version of the i705 isn't at least mentioned by Palm when they finally make this official.

Regarding the side scroll wheel...This is actually the biggest mistake on Palm's part, IMO. What could be more useful for reading those incoming emails on your i705? The Blackberry has one and, as you listed, several of Palm's licensees have incorporated them and everyone seems to love them.


SONY, I give up!

robrecht @ 1/18/2002 11:13:08 PM #
If SONY develops a cost-effective wireless option for the 615C, there isn't anything left to discuss here, exceept for virtual grafitti nerds like myself.

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: SONY, I give up!
robrecht @ 1/18/2002 11:19:09 PM #
I guess all I really need is a cable for my Motorola V60c. Virtual graffiti would have been nice but so would Betamax ...

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: SONY, I give up!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 12:11:32 AM #
That's a really big IF. The MYLO service is a huge dud which doesn't give me any faith Sony can do better next time. I expect to hear about a clunky wireless modem for the T series that is just another sled for a wireless PCMCIA card. It will cost $250 and be about the size of the whole T415. Unlimited service will still be $40.

RE: SONY, I give up!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 12:02:44 PM #
Just remember the original S300, it was a major dud here in the US. Second time around, Sony got it right with the N710 and S320. If they do the same with the MYLO service, they'll make an outstanding wireless option the next time around...

RE: SONY, I give up!
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:12:38 PM #
I much preferred the original Sony Palm device over the S320. The buttons were designed much better and I'm rather sick of all of these silver PDAs.


Get a -whatever

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 12:21:47 AM #
Most of you still just don't get it! You talk about trolls, but inadvertently, MOST of you are the trolls yourselves.

The 705 is NOT marketed to people like you. It is clearly a product marketed at people with NO need for MP3 capabilities, color needs, video playback needs, etc. This is NOT for your 'i want it all a la Sony or PPC' troll..oops- consumer.


This is a product that is intended for a user that needs the information, not the color. A user who wants long battery life, not carrying a friggin car battery around to charge it every 2 hours.

The few dolts out here who keep on ranting the Palm is going to be dead simply because this device is not what YOU were looking for: What do you do when a car manufacturer makes a car that you do not like ? Do you spend your entire day writing stupid messages on messageboards ?

Clearly MOST of you are in dire need of a life.

RE: Get a -whatever
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 7:14:58 AM #
Thanks for making sense out of the response to the i705. Life is to short to sort through trash to find something valuable. This new product is obviously not going to be for the masses; nevertheles, it will be useful for some.

Thank You!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 10:34:11 AM #
First, a well deserved "thank you" to Scott for his insightful, intelligent opinions.

Secondly, thanks to ALL of you who refrained from using the word "functionality" in these threads. God bless you. For those who did use the word, seek professional help.

Lastly, thanks to the 12-year old troll who once again confirmed my belief that Palm-based PDAs are superior.

Danger Hiptop

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 11:10:48 AM #
I'm afraid the Danger Hiptop may crush the Palm i705 before it even hits the shelves. If they market it as they had planned from the CES show, the Hiptop will be $200 US and have unlimited data transfers for only $25 a month.

RE: Danger Hiptop
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:57:48 AM #
This does look good. It's definitely aimed at the consumer market (cell phone, SMS, web browsing all for $200) and you just have one (cell phone) bill. Won't be attractive for those who disdain B&W devices, though. ;) I imagine that this won't necessarily be what corporations are looking for, though, as I see no mention of it offering any kind of back-end server to administer corporate email.

The i705 is definitely targeted at businesses, though it will probably have a limited consumer market as well.


No GPRS or Bluetooth???

Gene9 @ 1/19/2002 11:53:30 AM #
Why can't someone make a PalmOS device with built-in GPRS or Bluetooth?

With GPRS (and a phone) built into the PDA, one could have wireless data with their GSM mobile phone company; now VoiceStream and soon AT&T. VoiceStream "iStream" data starts at $3/month for the first 1MB.

With Bluetooth built into the PDA, one could connect to the internet via their GPRS-capable phone, like an Ericsson T39m with built-in Bluetooth. At least there's a Bluetooth adapter for Handspring PDA's, but at $150, that's approaching the cost of the T39m.

I look at the technology packed into the T39m and the T68 (at a relatively low cost) and can't understand why neither Palm nor Handspring makes a feature packed PalmOS device that can be used worldwide. Maybe with the recent Sony and Ericsson mobile merge, Sony might release the "dream" (IMHO) wireless PDA.

Gene J
Visor Edge & Ericsson T39m for now

RE: No GPRS or Bluetooth???
peter167 @ 1/19/2002 1:20:35 PM #
Palm is teaming up with TI to deliver a GPRS, Treo-like device by the end of the year.

Remember, GPRS is not yet here yet.

Yes, I agreed. They have to have bluetooth-enabled handhelds in their lineup. But the risk of manufacturing one with Palm OS 4.1 does not worth the money and the possiblity of the masses of selling it.

That's why they will sell Palm bluetooth SD cards next month and probably roll out a new handheld with OS5 before September (that's far away) with and without bluetooth built in.

Palm has to be conservative with its cash and not to waste any of that.

RE: No GPRS or Bluetooth???
mtg101 @ 1/21/2002 9:26:03 AM #
GPRS may not be in the USA yet, but it's all over the rest of the world. GPRS consumer services were turned on last year all over the EU.

We now have a long list of GPRS phones on sale in the EU. Ericsson has the T39m, T68 and R520m. Nokia has the 6310 and 8310. There's the Trium Mondo, Siemens S45, etc etc etc.


Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos

Color Treo with Graffiti

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 2:52:24 PM #
This is what I would buy, assuming AT&T USA would offer it someday.

Different Strokes for Different Folks

madhatter @ 1/19/2002 2:18:16 PM #
One thing in this discussion which needs to be pointed out is Palm already has other wireless options available to for those folks who want cheap wireless color web-surfing.

You can already use a mobile phone either via IR or cable to connect your palm to the web and surf using only your airtime minutes. This is a two-piece solution for folks who want it, including the M100 and M105 users.

For those who want to spend a little more, then with the introduction of the Bluetooth module in February, you will not even need the wire or the IR port. Still a two piece solution, a more practical one.

The Palm VIIx and it's replacement is for those people who want to access the important data on the net without using the two piece method. I use it to access driving directions ( forget maps, give me point to point directions I can follow.), I check e-mail, and even forward documents from my home or office computer using Vvault to whatever office I am at. I check prices instantly. I even saved $3,500 on the purchase of a used truck because I was able to pull up Edmunds to show the dealer how much the vehicle was overpriced. If my wife and I decide we want to take in a movie while we are out to dinner, then I can find the information while we are still eating the meal.

The VIIx has offered me value for my dollar. Notice I use the terms ME and MY.. your mileage may vary... Do I wish it was color, sure, but I am not willing to trade battery life or size to achive it, no. Realistically, I do not want to "surf the web" on a screen which is a couple of inches per side. I want a 21 inch monitor ( flat panel would be nice ;) ). No matter what anyone posts here, I do not see anyone offering to give up their desktop computer ( or laptop) to use the Palm, Pocket PC or other PDA device as their sole means of web access. At this time, and probably for a long time to come, this is not a practical idea. Maybe someone will invent a screen which unfolds to the size the user needs, but it is not here now.

The Palm VII and the i705 is not for everyone. Palm is not trying to market it to everyone. They are, however attempting to offer a wireless web solutions to fit different budgets and I don't think they receive enough credit for that.

As far as if it is worth upgrading from a VIIx to the new i705, I think that for my needs, the ability to use the SD card, and the always on e-mail might make it worth it for me to upgrade... but I probably get more use then some from the SD card. I have large databases which I have not been able to carry around with me on my VIIx, and look forward to having them available anytime I want.

The great thing about the Palm Platform, is that it offers a wide varity of solutions for a wide varity of needs. Your needs and my needs differ, however there is a Palm OS product that will meet both of our needs, and still allow us to communicate between each other.

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

RE: Different Strokes for Different Folks
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:16:22 PM #
Great post. Your thoughts about "surfing the internet" on a Palm or PPC paling in comparison to a laptop echo mine on another forum recently. I own an iPaq in addition to my Samsung i300 (and Visor Prism which I'll be selling soon). The "fit to screen" type of web browsing experience that Blazer (on the Palm) and Pocket IE (on the PPC) offer are frustrating at best and unusable at their worst. The Danger Hiptop looks interesting. It's only 320 pixels wide, I believe, but the folks making it are some of the same people behind WebTV and they did a decent job squeezing normal sites there. Still, I don't have high hopes until I can get an 800 pixel wide PDA (which would be big) or at least a 640 pixel wide one (with some smart "fit to screen" mode). And we're not even getting into the current bandwidth issues.

The bottom line is that if you want to do "web things" on a PDA you're best off with PQAs or "customized-for-PDA" versions of a web site.

You left out some wireless options, though. You can also get CPDP modems for several different Palm OS devices. This is the network that Omnisky uses. The best bargain though, if you have coverage, is Verizon Wireless who will offer it to you for $25/month unlimited. I don't believe it's capable of "waking up" though I wonder if that may be fixable as a result of changes in OS 4.0. CPDP is about the same speed as data on a cell phone, which is a bit faster than the Palm VII Mobitex network. They're all slow though. Last I checked, Handango was clearancing their Minstrel CPDP modems for the Palm V and Handspring Visors for only $50. The Minstrel M (for m50x series) still goes for over $300, though.


RE: Different Strokes for Different Folks
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/20/2002 6:56:50 PM #
I'm a big fan of the VIIx and in conjunction with Poplet I do alot of browsing on the run. My only question regarding moving from the VIIx to the i705 is if the i705 offers an enhanced browsing experience. From everything that I have read, I think not. Appreciate your thoughts regarding this topic. The always on e-mail does not interest me.

OT: PIC must stop doing this [info leaded; info leaked]

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 3:43:20 PM #
This sux. Why? Have you ever heard so much leaked info from possibly a company's disgraced employees other than Palm Inc? This is one of the problems that produced weak sales in the past for Palm.

But you dont hear much from Sony until a product hits the store, do you? Now, whether PIC begged for the info, or the other way around, PIC has gotta stop doing this. Use your judgement.

RE: OT: PIC must stop doing this [info leaded; info leaked]
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 9:28:15 PM #
I have to agree. I like this site, but publishing what - if true - would be confidential information disclosed by a source, no-doubt legally bound not to do so, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

If this site is here to support Palm, this is an odd way to show it.... really, isn't it?

Acting as a mouthpiece for such people take you down to their level IMO.

My two cents.

RE: OT: PIC must stop doing this [info leaded; info leaked]
Scott @ 1/19/2002 11:26:19 PM #
Actually, I don't see how this will hurt sales of existing products. The only device the i705 really competes against is the Palm VII. If the leaked info is true, this may in fact *increase* sales of Palm VII's since the new monthly rates should, conceivably, apply to the VII as well and the VII looks to be a lot cheaper. If you do so, you have two options:

1) Buy one right away since the $100 rebate on the VII expires on 1/25. Question is: Will you be "locked in" at the current monthly rate? If so...
2) Don't use the rebate and, instead, take advantage of the lower monthly rate since you'll make that $100 in 10 months.


RE: OT: PIC must stop doing this [info leaded; info leaked]
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/20/2002 1:04:04 AM #
I am viewing from a larger perspective, not just this model.

come on

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/20/2002 2:51:08 AM #
Does Sony have integrated wireless always on email? noooooo. Does the 415 have a good screen? nooooo. Does Blackberry have 320x320 color or access to the thousands of PalmOS apps? noooooo. Does Treo have color or expansion slots? noooooo. Can you even find a single handera model in a store? noooo. Is there such a thing as the perfect PDA? nooooooo. Are any of these companies including Palm doomed and have nothing to offer? noooo. They all have something to offer that is different than the other

RE: come on
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/20/2002 7:41:31 AM #
The difference is Sony has thousands of product lines and a market capitalization of $41 billions (only USA, other markets excluded) while palm only sells PDAs and a market cap of $2.3 billions.

People are just pointing out so that Palm can improve and stay in business.

Why not use solar technology?

Emma @ 1/21/2002 4:56:43 AM #
Is it entirely impossible to have a few solar cells on a pda? This might lead to much more extended battery life (and perhaps make it easier to incorporate hi res color and other battery draining stuff like that).

Such a device would be charged normally when near a power outlet, but could sort of float charge the battery at other times, using ambient light. There are quite a few portable devices (calculators, toys, watches etc) that do seem to work quite well on this concept.

What would be the main barriers to such a pda design (cost, technology)?

RE: Why not use solar technology?
ktran @ 1/22/2002 3:07:24 AM #

There are a certain number of problems with using solar technology for PDAs.

1. Solar energy, while plentiful, isn't very powerful. The cells on a calculator can likely give you enough voltage, but the current supplied would be far too miniscule.

2. Given that solar energy isn't terribly powerful (I can't remember the exact numbers, but I think it's someting like 1 kW / m^2 on a good sunny day), we also have to *convert* it to electricity. At best, our most expensive commercially and industrially available solar cells are approaching 30% efficiency.

3. Solar energy collected is maximised by maximising the area of the cells -- this is a problem with PDAs, especially as they shrink in size and offer less and less surface area upon which to place these cells.

4. Okay, so we put cells on the front flip cover. These cells are *very* fragile and *very* expensive. And we thought the glass screens that Palm used to use in its devices was fragile?

I hope I've gone into enough detail there. Sorry to fire it off in point-form, but it's rather late at the moment.


K. Tran

No Way

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 8:54:15 AM #
If these details are true to form, then Palm is dumber than I could have ever imagined. No one (well almost no one) is going to pay $400.00 for a non-color handheld with the same crappy 8 MB internal memory and NO new features otherthan wireless. Palm truely is a joke, and the more I read and see, just reaffirms my decidsion to move to a PocketPC 2002 device. Killer display, tons of memory, and I can go wireless w/ a cable to connect to my cell phone or a wireless modem.

i705 vs the leader, the Samsung SPH-i300

johnbartley @ 1/22/2002 12:35:43 PM #
Let's take a look at the i705 as described herein vs the current Smartphone leader, the SPH-i300 from Samsung

First, Thank The Great Maker neither uses GSM/GPRS.
Why? Poor availability in the Americas.
Mobitex AKA 'Cingular Interactive' has better coverage; CDMA better still.

Screen visibility: The i300 is a qualified winner, for in all conditions except bright sunlight,
its screen will be more legible.

Battery life: Since the i705 is using an 8kbps paging network at much lower power,
the i300 uses power faster. However, the modular swappable battery system
(two batteries w/ every i300 sold plus more available to buy) mitigates this problem for most users.

Coverage: The i300 has coverage where the Sevens and the i705 do not. Point goes to the i300.

Flexibility: With SprintPCS, any SMS email automatically alerts me ASAP, and the whole message
is copied to my desired alternate email address. The unit has voice mail and a pager as well as
digital AND analog N-AMPS voice capability. Here, the $450 i300 again beats the i705.

Integration: Palm's announced the enterprise email integration package will not be available whien
the i705 ships. Result? We don't know if it's an onion or an orchid, so wait and see.

Purchase cost: The i300 sells for $450 at Amazon. The i705 has been announced at $450. Draw.

Operating cost: SprintPCS does NOT include outbound email service - so you must have a
POP3 or IMAP email service somewhere to access. Assuming you use Yahoo, that's $0 cost.

Now, let's try a calculus of cost-per-KB. Your mileage WILL vary, I will guar-an-tee.

Sprint's simplest rate plan for full i300 functionality adds the Wireless Web option to
300 anytime and 3000 night/weekend minutes at $40/mo. Let's assume we use it daytime
office hours only; what does 300 minutes get us? Since it takes under a minute to dial out, synch
and both pick up and send a 2K message, let's call this 4K/minute.

I don't know of anyone anymore who has a wireless PDA but no celfon (I think I was the
last holdout). So, knock $30 for a cheap celfon plan off the $40 of the Sprint plan.

Compare that to what you get for the $10 delta on the i705, and SprintPCS still looks good.

Convenience: Having ONE gizmo to tend instead of two?
One address book instead of two, with automated backup on every sync? Fantastic!

We have not even addressed why Blazer & Eudora are superior to web clipping for web browsing.

Any other questions about the i300 and why it beats the i705, hands down?

-- Wireless FAQ for PalmOS(r) Handheld's Cellular Data FAQ Listserv for i300 users

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/23/2002 9:23:55 PM #
Help! I'm a desperate unix admin that needs an SSH client on the road, without taking my freaking thinkpad everywhere! I've quite a few (really) stupid users, and with all the cutbacks, my first AND second tier support no longer exist.

I happen to have an i705, and now wish I didn't :/

Any future (or current) hacks for a TCP/IP stack, or a client compatable with





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