Comments on: PalmGear De-emphasizes Freeware (Updated)

I think there is some misunderstanding as we DO allow BOTH Free and non free software at our site. The only difference that is being implemented is that free software is not going to be listed on the home page with New or Updated software. No software (free or otherwise) has been removed. Search results still show free software with the only difference being they are now listed at the end of the results pages. Additionally the Advanced Software Search which can be accessed via this link:

http://wwws.palmgear.com/software/asksoftware.cfm

or on the initial page of search results page after entering search criteria in the search criteria entry field at the upper left has the option that has always been there that allows locating Free software via the drop down choice list "Application or Document". Additionally I would like to point out that our only commercial competitor has not only not listed freeware for quite some time they do not list it whatsoever.

In any event we are open to suggestions and want to do what we can to make the site as useful as is possible while maximizing revenues for the software developers whose software is listed.

Regards,

Kenny West
PalmGear.com
http://www.palmgear.com
"The One Stop Source for your Palm Connected Organizer!"

If Palmgear is on the edge of dying it sure didn't help by being stupid. You nailed the last nail into your own coffin, Kenny.

I think you are missing the point. I used to go to Palmgear everyday, because it was the one place where I could go to find out information about every piece of software available for the Palm (free, or shareware). Occasionally, I would for to the freewarepalm or Handango sites just to see if Palmgear had missed anything. Now, I'll probably start going to Handango and/or Palmspot to see if they carry a complete list.

In the long run, this is going to drive people away, because the value of Palmgear was not specificly that they had freeware or shareware. The value was that they had everything easily accessiible. And now they don't.

What do you want to bet that when they see how much their site traffic goes down, they go back to the old method?

Michael

HTH...Boone

Handango doesn't even post new or updated products in a timely manner. There are times when I know when a product was updated on Handango, and it took hours for it to show up as so. And by that time, the product wasn't even listed on the front page anymore.

Let's keep in mind that not all the develoers voted to have freeware removed. I think it was to their advantage to have a lot of people coming to the gear site in search of "Whatever", and not just commercial/shareware products.

I hope BUDD does not code the same way he writes. ;)

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

The whole attraction of PalmGear was that everything was centralized in one place and you could easily keep up to date on the Palm software market.

This is the beginning of the end and it's time for developers to start their own grassroots distribution site. Palm old-timers remember the dozens of Palm software sites over the years that have come and gone and once upon a time, PalmGear was a newcomer too. The community will survive its passing, and it may well be time for a class-action law suit to recoup unpaid developer fees and hasten the end of PalmGear.

Just because you can crack a program doesn't mean that you should. There's something called ethics.

You don't like the cost of software? Don't buy it! Or, create something on your own to compete with the existing product at a lower cost. Cracking someone else's software and redistributing it - whether or not it's overpriced - is in direct violation of virtually all software licenses, and you deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Whoops. UZI4U182 and StormRider.

___________________________________
www.pdaavenue.com

Marcus Bankuti
marcusbankuti@pdaavenue.com

Thanks for trying to impose your morality on the rest of the universe. Let's see if it holds up:

Please sort these in order, most moral, to least.

- Priests who take money from the old and poor who 'Need salvation' to buy nice big cars and build expensive churches.
- People who sell drugs to other consenting adults because it's a lucrative business.
- People who sample the candy in the grocery store.
- Police who support a war on drugs because it gets them more tax money for their departments and more salary for themselves. Oh, and let's not forget 'Siezed assets'.
- Someone who woulden't have paid for a piece of software investing dozens of man-hours looking for it in the warez community.
- Large chain stores using their collective mussle to temporarily push their prices below profit level so that they can raise prices after they've driven local business under.
- A small child who stole a piece of candy.
- the RIAA/MPAA.

Thanks for sorting this out for me. I'm so glad your 'morality' works in such a cut-and-dried manner.

Make sure you go out and yell at everybody who falls on the 'worse' side of the warez dooood when you're done.

I'm pretty sick tonight, and I'm usually not bothered by this stuff. This will be the first time I've ever insulted someone on this site. I've never seen a need to go hard to bat on anything, but you apprently need someone to fill you in.

You're an idiot.

Only an idiot would think that the government could make money on the "War on Drugs." Do you really think the three 8-balls they confiscate will pay the 40k salaries of the 15 guys who raided the dope house and the border patrols that run day and night?
"Priests who take money from the old and poor who 'Need salvation' to buy nice big cars and build expensive churches."
Who.... Where? What the hell are you talking about? Which priest? What town? You have no idea, do you?

"Oh, and let's not forget 'Siezed assets'"

Idiot.

You're a thief.

Only an idiot thief would justify their actions by trying to point the finger at other people doing creepy stuff.
"Someone who wouldn't have paid for a piece of software investing dozens of man-hours looking for it in the warez community."
Community? Is that supposed to make you sound wholesome? Who cares how much time you spent finding what you stole?

You're ignorant.

When you make a copy of the software someone worked hard to make, you didn't buy it. So you DID cost them money; they'd have money if you weren't a thief.

You're a kid.

You write and think like a kid. You're examples of corruption are the worst kind of popular tripe. You've spent no time at all researching any of the examples you've given and you have no idea what you're talking about.

Stealing is stealing. It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing, how much it costs, how big the company is, whether you need it, or whether you've justified it in your head. If it costs money, and you don't pay, than your a crook. At least admit to it and don't rag someone else about imposing morals; you don't even know what a moral standard is....

-------
This ranting brought to you by a 102-degree fever and the flu. If I seem overly irritated, it's only because I am. I hope I haven't offended anyone.... except the idiot I.M.
Get a screen name.
Idiot.

...In accordance with the prophecy...

Quik_Fix
quikfix@hotmail.com

Marcus Bankuti
marcusbankuti@pdaavenue.com

We used to try to selling software with just $1 (we can only 60 cents) but the response is disappointed and we finally increase the price back to 9.95.

In order to avoid cracking, we spend our engineers' time on anti-cracking design. It also increase our cost.

Some of my friend never pay a dollar to software because software does not cost a dollar for copying. However, it is a misunderstand. We DO pay a lot of money on development.

For people advocate WAREZ, please, try to develop a real product and see how much effort and money you need to pay for a product development.

Consider the scores of Asians who would have been left out of the IT revolution were it not for pirated software. I am not talking of businessmen in pinstriped suits but students and ordinary office workers who can buy cheap PCs made in China but for whom a registered Windows OS is out or reach. Sure, $25 for a good Palm software seems like a reasonable price compared with $299 for Windows XP. But that's a princely sum for those in the Third World who earn only $300 a month or less.

We cannot condone software piracy but we can at least try to understand why it's happening in the first place. Perhaps by doing so, those who develop and market Palmware can find ways to bring down their prices - such as selling directly to customers instead of using agents/re-sellers like Palmgear and Handango.

But how many times have you tried shareware for say 3 weeks, but another version comes out with only 1 week left on the trial period? So then you are faced with a choice: shell out $$ hoping that the changes to the new version have not created new bugs, or just delete the thing and look for something else.

How many times do you see version after version of software released within a few, in each case dealing with bugs which should have been ironed out before the public release of the first version? Too many times. I can list some examples if you wish.

Don't even just me started on crippleware ...

The truth is that they do not want to pay for software. They would pay hundreds to buy new Sony NR70 even they have another Palm device which they just bought months ago, but they do not want to pay for "Document T? G?" even they feel it is useful.

Even a program is bug free and cheap, they still complain the program is not good enough while they are running it everyday.

There is little market evidence that software is overpriced. Hardware makers, Software makers, resellers like PalmGear are all struggling to survive. The cost of development is expensive, and so the cost of administration to run a website to sell stuff. Companies like Intuit, Aladdin, Learning Company, Sega, can't even afford to participate in the handheld market because the market is too small and the profits are so meager.

All these companies big and small aren't making bad choices.

Stealing software will only drive more good developers out of the handheld market. The big companies will develop for other platforms and the small companies will disappear. All companies have to provide compromised services, because less money is available.

Who wouldn't want $80 dollar software for $10 dollars, but dream on... Most of the dotcom companies who give out more than they take in have gone out of business. Look at all the layoffs in this country and don't only blame the bad management. It is precisely the charlatans who create companies that give out more than they take. The slimebags out-compete the honest guys, because the honest guys can't compete with products priced below market value.

And as for "morals", the people who talk about having them are usually the ones with the least idea of what morals actually are (insert priest, politicial, religous fanatics etc hear). I for one am sick and tired of taking it up the ass while companies that scam 2Billion, 4bilion etc dollars will end up with tax write-offs for next year. Overpriced, cableTV, CellPhone plans, ISP accounts its all bull**** being shoved up our collective consumer asses. We are being OVERWORKED, OVERTAXED and nothing more than fuel for the machine. So SCREW THEM ALL and yes I get free DTV, and Cable too.

www.handango.com

That way, they get most of your money out of it!
Oliver

I don't think shareware is affected by this.

Visit us at www.tdscomputer.com

I would have thought you'd be behind this move by Kenny - given that 99% of *your* customers would be commercial/shareware developers. If someone is gonna write freeware, they are highly unlikely to purchase CW for $400.

I'm a shareware developer, and paid the $$'s for CW because it's a great tool. I see value in it.

Why do people think software should be free? Would you (not you Ben, the royal "you") do your job for free? I didn't think so...

I'd like to know how many people register McPhling, as opposed to those who "will do it tomorrow". Also I'm sure Mike has a fulltime job doing something else, and isn't reliant on McPhling to feed his kids... some people out there actually depend on shareware registrations for a living - let them live I say.

The software shouldn't be free. It might be free though... So, why do you want it to be hidder. Are you afraid that a freeware application is better than the app you developed and ask money for?

The software developers who program only for money shouldn;t try to kill the others. Maybe the others program to make their name known, and put in the CV: a developped a freeware application which 10000000 people downloaded...

Money is not everything, although in this world it seems like the general opinion is: "I have money, I could s**t on you now". I hate this...

Makes sense. Business is business.

Ah, get your facts right. This is far far far from the truth. The majority of the "pay" software listed on gear is not exclusive to them. And a large number of their bigger names sell on Gear, Handango, and their own web site. Gear has no issues with that.

"If an author sells his Palm software on his own site or another reseller and not on PalmGear, then they will NOT list it."

I'm an author myself (TapPad, SkinManager), and several months ago TapPad was pulled from the site because I was not selling it through PalmGear, only directly through TapPad.com. I had to allow them to resell TapPad in order to be listed.

Again, my point is PalmGear is not a COMPLETE Palm software directory, as they are biased towards what they sell. If we throw some support towards sites that DO NOT SELL software, like VersionTracker, then they CAN be a more complete Palm software listing site.

So developers, send them your software title submissions if you're not already listed. They're perhaps the best site on the internet at tracking new and updated software. You can't buy from them, but they link to the download and the site where you can buy.

OrionNE

And by the way, you shouldn't say that about the Kenny West. Business is about money, and Kenny West figures this way he will make more, and possibly save his company.

___________________________________
www.pdaavenue.com

Marcus Bankuti
marcusbankuti@pdaavenue.com

Wow, how profound! He only pays for things that he thinks are worth it. What the **** do you think the rest of us do? Buy every one of the 18,000 Palm apps available?

One last time...if you don't like the product, don't buy it and don't use it. No one is holding a gun to your head telling you to buy HandCrap 2.7.

"Profanity or flaming of a developer, application or PalmGear.com will not be tolerated!"
Profanity should obviously be there. Flaming is not the same as criticism.

"DO NOT use the review area to direct readers to other software products or offsite url's"
This is complete understandable

"Reviews are Approved Periodically"
Approved so that they can filter out reviews that violate these rules -- this is a GOOD aspect.

"PalmGear.com reserves the right to accept or decline any and all reviews added at the sole discretion of PalmGear.com"
This doesn't say 'if the review is negative' or anything. This is to avoid any hassles someone might give them about declining their review (eg nonsense reviews or something)

I see plenty of bad reviews for software on palmgear. You're not making sense?

I don't imagine it is "huckstering" as opposed to blocking spam. With no policy in place, what is to stop X developer from putting in links to his own product's website? It could be totally irrelevant to the current product, totally crappy, or not even Palm related. Hell, without the policy what is to stop someone from advertising their porn site in a review? I don't think the policy is there with the intention of keeping users from recommending alternatives.

I sure hope your site has less spelling/grammar mistakes....

You may just add a price tag to your freeware (say $1 or $10000) and the system just show your software, and you upload the full version into the system. Then everyone can donwload and get it free without hurrying about the policy of Palmgear.

In addition, I also stated that PalmGear would be no longer be PalmGear without free software.

You will see freewares again in Palmgear because it is easy to bypass the system.

Palmgear, please cancel the policy, it is meaningless.

They did, by changing their website. If users disagree, the they will vote with their pocketbooks, and sales will go down. If sales don't go down, then whatever the users may say, the've voted with what counts as far as any business is concerned, their cash.

As a user, I'll go to the PalmOS site with the largest selection first. might be PalmGear, might not be...

I got news for you - your boy Steve Jobs ain't no saint.

Free or paid software needs customers. Period. And if I am a customer and my needs are not met we go elsewhere. I can't imagine a simple rule as this can still be ignored today - especially during tough times!

And the majority of the "PURE JUNK" these days is shareware. What I see is someone writing code for the PalmOS for the first time, charging $5 to $15 for a poor idea that is even more poorly executed and no one buys it. And they get discouraged. Do they come up with a better idea or make improvements. No, they either move on to some other hobby or moan that no one is buying their junk because of freeware, "Oh, it's not my problem. Some one is posting a better product for free. And the masses are selecting it over my lousy software. Freeware bad! Ruining my chances to retire! No one appreciates all the hours that I put into developing my junk!"

Part of the succes of PalmOS is due in large part to freeware.

Thanks,
ed@palminfocenter.com

---
News Editor

It is a stupid decision anyway. Developers have options now to list their software elsewhere. If Kenny wants exclusive rights to those software he needs customers and causing ill-will to them is not the way to go. The developers have different options but PalmGear has only one - willing customers choosing them over others.

While we feel for the troubles PalmGear has gotten itself into, this is no way to ask the community to show support in return.

One would think that with all the recent "callous" actions (such as Iambic?), Kenny should have known the Palm community are a vociferous lot and can be supportive when called to arms. But to have ignored this fact and place the "blame" on developers, PalmGear is shooting its own foot - the developers on the left and the customers on the right. Very, very stupid.

Palmgear is a store. Brighthand is a PDA Discussion/News site. I don't see the connection, and I don't know why you'd consider Steve "nutty."

That other Palm site hasn't stolen thousands of dollars from individual developers like you have...

Since when does being in a lawsuit authorize you to STEAL?? What exactly makes you think that you deserve to be in business?

Handango was apparently unjustified in bring their lawsuit. Who cares? How does their wrong action justify yours? You DEFRAUDED and STOLE from your customers.

The lawsuit that *should* be filed is by the developers who were cheated. Then Kenny (who ultimately made the decision to steal to support his company) should have criminal charges pressed.

Kenny, you can try to play the poor victim, or the concerned Palm community member, but the truth is you're no better than a common thief. The Palm community will do just fine without you. Feel free to close up shop any time you like. You'll not incite any guilty feelings here.

-Absolutely Disgusted

Microsoft is immune to bad PR due to it's monopolistic position, even then, bad press like that on it's new licensing scheme, makes Microsoft extend it's dateline by almost a year. Although Microsoft never backdown and the dateline had passed last July 31st.

I never want Palmgear to go under ( I didn't even called for a boycott of Palmgear.), and if it did, it's because of Palmgear's bad business decisions (this fiasco is one of them), not some small Palm Community. Did I comment on Kenny? Kenny's great for being a pioneer on the Palm software scene, but lately some his business decisions are bad, and this is one way of telling him how we feel.