Comments on: Rumor: Details on Upcoming Sony Handheld (Updated)

Hans.

Thanks Sony, thanks palm, thanks Handera, thanks Handspring, give me more options! Long live choices. Long live PalmInfoCenter!

nategall says "blah!"

I think Sony has ravaged the Zen of Palm and left it for dead.

Sony screwed up too many times while designing their earlier PDAs, and they've learned to stay away from the PDA market, and focus on the "gadget" market (mp3 player, walkman, "flash movies").

I don't either. Hope there will be a $500 version without the camera and a $600 one with it. Wish I knew how well the NR70 is selling compared to the NR70V. If the one with a camera is way outselling the one without, there may only be a camera one.

My hats are off to Sony, love 'em or hate 'em - they know how to push the envelope!

Parrot had the privilege of being invited by Ferrari at their factory to install their CK3000 Bluetooth car kit for Jean Todt, Team Principal of the Ferrari F1 Team.

Jean Todt has lately set up his new highly mobile office. A Ferrari Maranello 575 that was fitted with additional high-performance equipment: Harman Becker navigation system, Bose Audio system, and a Parrot CK3000 Bluetooth car kit.

The CK3000 allows Jean Todt to place his calls by pressing one button and speaking any of his phonebook's names. Incoming calls are accepted pressing on a second button.

During calls, the audio system is automatically turned off, and the conversation is routed to the speakers.

The phone stays inside the pocket all the while: the pairing and exchanges between the phone and the car kit is fully wireless using Bluetooth.

Parrot CK3000 installation at Ferrari.

Installation was carried out at the factory. The Bluetooth car kit only requires connecting the CK3000 unit to 12V supply, to the mike, and to the place-call and hang-up buttons. The mute cable intercepts the audio wiring between the radio and the loudspeakers.

http://www.say-parrot.com/parrot/uk/ck3000_eng.htm

It is 4x the speed because it's a "wider" port to send the serial protocol over. Look closely at the underlying protocol, it's still serial, even if it goes over a connector that connects through a USB hardware device.

If you're claiming that's a "jerry-rigged serial port" rather than a USB one (with serial adapters built into serial cradles), what can you show to back that up?

Again, look at the protocol behind it. It's serial. Look at the drivers which support it, also serial. This is not a USB protocol, and there is not a single PalmOS© PDA in existance that uses USB natively. They're all serial, transmitting their communications over a USB hardware port.

Not that I'm complaining, it makes it easy to interface with external, third-party serial devices with a small change in pinouts on the connector type.

I've been wondering this for a while. Why do so many device makers still make serial connections if USB is so easy to port? I guess another question is why isn't there a native USB driver for hotsyncing. Wouldn't that greatly speed things up with little effort on Palm's part?

Period.

That was probably one of the most arrogant, elitist statements I ever read here at PIC. Hey "know it all" - you're not half as smart as you think you are.

You must be a Machead.
You sound like Steve Jobs who commenced to destroy all of the cloners.

I'm all for Sony. It keeps Palm honest by showing the company what you can do with the technology. And it's a win for the consumer because it gives us choice, but it sounds like you're in the zone of Jobs' reality distortion field and alternative lifestyle. You don't believe in choice. You only believe in mandated products with incremental changes at maximum premium prices.

Thank the gods for Sony. Keep it up Sony!!!

Today I can use 802.11b at home, the office, in public hotspots such as airports, hotels, cafes, and grassroots public networks. Even the telcos and ISP's have been making noises in the media about teaming up to supplement 3G data with 802.11b coverage. For that sort of connectivity (better than CDPD, cellular circuit switched data, ricochet or whatever), a slot to accept 802.11b today and 802.11[x,y, or z] tomorrow, seems more helpful.

And there's nothing special about the UC and wireless modems. Any PalmOS device can currently connect to a cellphone or similar device for wireless data via a cable.

The special thing about the UC is that it is being used by all of the recent Palm pdas, making all peripherals for that connector work with all of those Palms. That is a great idea, which they are using to their advantage, as Sony is a bit slow on the accessories for the t series connector. That's one area where Palm has a considerable lead and they are exploiting it... good for them.

And what if you don't have a cell phone with wireless internet capabilities? What if you don't have a cable to hook it up? The wireless modem for the UC solves that. There is even a bluetooth sled available for it if you don't want to use the sd slot on the m500 series.

___________________
I'm the ears of PIC

Palm is a licensee just like the rest. With the appropriate hotsync cable and a null modem adaptor, you can connect to *any* modem or data enabled cellular handset.

The Universal connector is universal only to Palm Inc., and even then not universally. Thus far, just marketing spin. Like their dual-expansion ditty.

I am a Palm zealot, but I understand the limitations to my zeal. I see no reason to get the m130 over the t615 except for the fact that you can't scrape up an extra $50 any possible way.

And the clie line is very durable, too.

_______________________________________
So how's that nice girlfriend of yours?
Oh she got hit by a car, she's dead.

I wish more Palm OS licencees would use CF but I don't think this plan from Sony (IF it is a real) is very good. I like the HandEra way of having two fully functional slots. If that's too much, use CF instead of SD. I know Sony would never give up its Memory Sticks, though.

-Myk-

-myk-

?? Obviously never seen a 1GB Microdrive used on a 16.5Mhz TrgPro with CardPro.

And AFAIK there's been some *very* impressive graphics and video done with 3rd party software on the NR70. With results and FR rivaling 206Mhz PocketPC's.

I'm not saying that ARM isn't welcome, but now that ARM is here, let's not pretend Dragonball doesn't have it's place, and hasn't fought the good fight.

Sure there's things you can't really do on 33/66Mhz Dragonball's but the two you mentioned aren't at the top of the list.

You are correct. I have never seen this. Nobody I know uses this kind of Frankenstein P.O.S. I'm sure it does amazing hi-res graphics, though.

Note to sony R&D: Make better buttons. The camera was asinine considering you can't even get good button placement.

It would be great if I could accept all vCards while networking and then pick and choose the next day which ones I want to keep.

Oh and that thing I do about twice a day call syncing. It would be nice to get rid of extra cables.

So, this is the present and I want it now.

You take the present with ya to go to the FUTURE. In that future WIRELESS is present.

Few 'automatic' function examples of Bluetooth:

• A PC and Palm or Phone can be set up so that when they are in proximity, an auto-sync takes place. So instead of putting the Palm in the cradle and hitting the HotSync button, just walk within a few feet of the PC and the two will automatically synchronize.

• One Bluetooth-enabled phone can do three tasks. At home, the phone functions as a portable phone, using a landline. When the user is on the move, it functions as a mobile phone, and when the phone comes within range of another Bluetooth mobile phone, it functions as a walkie-talkie.

• A user can compose e-mail on a Bluetooth-enabled laptop while flying on an airplane and queue up the e-mails to be sent. In her briefcase is a Bluetooth-enabled cell phone, switched off. After she lands, she switches on the cell phone, which connects to the Internet and transmits the mail while she waits for her luggage.

• A field rep has a sales meeting noted in her PalmPilot, and the meeting time changes. Someone calls the rep's cell phone, transmits the new data and the phone routes the new information to the PalmPilot, which beeps to let her know her schedule has changed.

• Products and accounts can be assigned a scanning code. With a swipe of a mobile phone, a sales rep can transmit on-hand inventory status and order information back to the main office.

Just to name a few examples....

SonyEricsson Mobile phone portfolio with various Bluetooth phones
http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?page=GIS

OT concerning Sony's pda's, but wouldn't it be cool to connect your smarthphone in a Bluetooth car kit and use voice dailing for example?????

Considering the short range of Bluetooth, why not just talk to the person?

Unfortunatly, the fact that they still don't offer the Bluetooth "Infostick" outside of Japan is not the most hopeful indicator...

So with adding WIRELESS to the Sony Clie you can make phone-calls? Oh? That's new to me.

This one made me laugh. The writer has no clue what Bluetooth can and can't do.

Bluetooth won't turn a mobile "cellular" phone to a wireless phone at home. The range is too small <10 metres... 30 feet.. you'd lose signal when at the other end of the room. And as for the walkie talkie function.. ummm yes you could... but again teh range... 10 metres.. you just raise your voice a little..

Bluetooth isn't about this kind of crap, its aboiut reoving wires from our personal devices... pda to mobile phone.. mobile phone to head set, PDA to PC.

Nah. You can use ad-hoc mode, device to device like you can with bluetooth. Also cellphone manufacturers like Qualcomm have annouced plans to include 802.11b in their chipsets. There's nothing stopping them in that case from PDA to cellphone 802.11b connections either (In fact it's to theirs and providers benefit to).

"Wi-Fi And Bluetooth As Complementary, Not Competing, Technologies "

So they say, but there's also some feature crossover. Both can print wirelessly as easily with PrintBoy Anywhere (though there are more NIC/network enabled printers out there than BT ones at the moment). Both can make ad-hoc like inter-device connections in a cable-replacement like fashion. I can hotsync over both. I can connect to the internet via both (though the 802.11b public infrustucture is such that BT likely won't compete in this area). There are already 802.11b enabled devices in research homes interacting in a closed network in a wider ranged version of BT's PAN like activities.

In terms of capturing market and mind share, as well as consumer dollars, they are in fact already competing.

"• A PC and Palm or Phone can be set up so that when they are in proximity, an auto-sync takes place. So instead of putting the Palm in the cradle and hitting the HotSync button, just walk within a few feet of the PC and the two will automatically synchronize."

I suppose PocketPC users will be used to that. I prefer to be able to manually hit hotsync on my device from anywhere in the building over 802.11b. Or make a PPTP connection and do it from the airport lounge.

"Bluetooth + Hotsync are here today and work."

And 802.11b isn't? I check "Network" in Hotsync manager, and 802.11b + Hotsync work. And I'm pretty sure HandEra 802.11b drivers pre-date Palm's BT hardware and drivers (at least in public release).

"Setup as easy as 1-2-3."

And for 802.11b:
1. Enable Network hotsync in hotsync manager
2. Insert 802.11b CF card
3. Run Hotsync app, select modem instead of local hotsync, and hit the hotsync button.

"Bluetooth won't turn a mobile "cellular" phone to a wireless phone at home. The range is too small <10 metres... 30 feet.. you'd lose signal when at the other end of the room. And as for the walkie talkie function.. ummm yes you could... but again teh range... 10 metres.. you just raise your voice a little.."

Bluetooth is designed to operate up to 10 meters but more powerful transmitters can increase this distance to 100 meters.

BlueCore01 doubles Bluetooth range, reduces power
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2097016,00.html

"Nah. You can use ad-hoc mode, device to device like you can with bluetooth. Also cellphone manufacturers like Qualcomm have annouced plans to include 802.11b in their chipsets. There's nothing stopping them in that case from PDA to cellphone 802.11b connections either (In fact it's to theirs and providers benefit to)."

What nah? Roaming is coming, that's simple. But to use 802.11 (2Mbps-11Mbps) over GSM or GPRS is something different won't you think. Buetooth over GSM or GPRS, CDMA is prefered.

Of course you can use the adhoc mode, but that doesn't say that you can use your 802.11 device with your phone and be wireless connective????? What kind of BS is that.

Qualcomm has plans to integrated 802.11 in certain cdma chips: "We plan to have a device by next year that combines CDMA or W-CDMA and wireless LAN networking. Our approach is similar to the one we have taken with Bluetooth" said Siegmund Redl, director of European marketing at Qualcomm CDMA Technologies.

Qualcomm Bluetooth Chip Solutions
http://www.cdmatech.com/solutions/bluetooth.html

By the way, it doesn't hurt that Qualcomm joint OMA: QUALCOMM intends to contribute to the OMA in order to foster the availability of robust and innovative wireless data applications that take advantage of such standards as MPEG-4, HTML/XML, HTTP, HTTPS, SSL, Bluetooth and GPS. The Company recognizes there is a need for comprehensive wireless data solutions that support the wide variety of devices that will continue to come into the market.

"So they say, but there's also some feature crossover....."

Bluetooth has also a networking function, true, but that is not prefered.

"In terms of capturing market and mind share, as well as consumer dollars, they are in fact already competing."

You mean like market share of cars vs bicycles? Your problem, as with many others, is that you see 802.11 a the 'standard doing everything'. 802.11 as a cheap cable replacement isn't interesting. 802.11 for Wireless Headsets, Keyboards, USB adapters, Pens etc. isn't suitable. Don't you get that? The 802.11-Bluetooth picture isn't clear for a lot people. They don't know the differences between 802.11 and Bluetooth. They don't know where the 2 where designed for in the frist place.

Few Bluetooth Examples

-Bluetooth PlayStation2 gamepad
-Bluetooth (wireless onboard electronics) and Telematics
-Bluetooth Keyboard
-Bluetooth and GPS
-Bluetooth Printers
-Bluetooth OS application(s)/software
-Bluetooth Logboard (Tablet)
-Bluetooth PC/Flash Cards
-Bluetooth Phones
-Bluetooth Headsets
-Bluetooth PC and Notebooks
-Bluetooth Access Points
-Bluetooth USB adapters
-Bluetooth PDA's
-Bluetooth Pen
-Bluetooth Camcorders
-Bluetooth RS232 & serial
-Bluetooth ISDN Access Point/ISDN Adapter (and more)
-Bluetooth Suitcase
-Bluetooth Battery
-Bluetooth for tracking, monitoring and identification of objects (suitcases, laptops, bicycles or even children)
-Bluetooth Mouse
-Bluetooth - Medical applications
-Bluetooth interface for medical instruments
-Bluetooth On-Line

http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=34312

"I suppose PocketPC users will be used to that. I prefer to be able to manually hit hotsync on my device from anywhere in the building over 802.11b. Or make a PPTP connection and do it from the airport lounge."

As if that matters. I just pointed out that it's already here. The person who ask me has question marks that it could be done. I just explained. Wireless and ActiveSync is still difficult by the way (but that's another issue)

"And 802.11b isn't? I check "Network" in Hotsync manager, and 802.11b + Hotsync work. And I'm pretty sure HandEra 802.11b drivers pre-date Palm's BT hardware and drivers (at least in public release)."

Great for ya, but I didn't say that "802.11 isn't". AGAIN: I just showed him it's here today and working. For the record, I use both 802.11 (and Bluetotoh with my iPaq 3870) and Bluetooth (Palm505) and both work fine.

And for 802.11b:
1. Enable Network hotsync in hotsync manager
2. Insert 802.11b CF card
3. Run Hotsync app, select modem instead of local hotsync, and hit the hotsync button.

Thanx for showing us how to set up 802.11 and hotsync??????

Have a nice day.

Please explain to me how and why a battery would use bluetooth. It's impossible to recharge wirelessly. And this list of bluetooth devices you speak of, most of them are already wireless and don't need bluetooth. Don't expect to see all of these devices in one store for about 20 years.

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As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

And stop trashing things you don't fully understand, useybird.

And it IS possible to recharge things wirelessly. It is futuristic and questionable and it's not necessarily by way of bluetooth, but here is a link:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3699

_______________________________________
So how's that nice girlfriend of yours?
Oh she got hit by a car, she's dead.

For idiots who bash Palm for lacking inivqtion THATS why Sony can AFFORD to be "cutting edge" and Palm cannot, and MUST change slowly. So Palm targets low end and high ends slim and cool looking and "pocketability." There IS a large market that will NEVER use multimedia ect. Palm tagets these. Palm adds such features slowly because they cannot take on PPC directly and keep up. THAT is Sonys role in Palm OS.

Sony and Palm are a "team." PPC is the opponant.

You're new here, aren't you? :)


Jim

[It would be GREAT if Ed and Ryan would finally get rid of anonymous posting -- the quality of discussion would surely improve (remember when they did this at PDABuzz some time back?).]

Anyway, I know quite a number of mature Clie owners who are quite taken with their devices, so perhaps it's not fair to tar all Clie-philes with the same brush. :-)

Despite Palm's financial troubles, I believe Palm has a greater Market share than Sony.

----------------------------------------

As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

I can no longer gloat about my superior purchase to my friends, who all actually live and breath around my PDA purchases. Everyone knows how much of a status symbol a PDA is to the real world. People bowed when I walked by because of my NR70V. They will now laugh at my non-working obsolete PDA. I am sad.

Oh no. Boo hoo. This is the end of the world. [/dry sarcasm]

Seriously, am I upset about this? Heck no, I'm rather intrigued and excited. When Sony released the NR70 series, I about fell out of my chair in giddiness, even though I had literally just purchased a T-615C.

Do I HAVE to keep my current PDA in its obsolesence(sp?) when this new one is release? Nope, I can just as easily eBay it and regain SOME of my cost (or sell it to one of my other semi-gadget-freaky friends). Will I do that? Well, probably not. I'll probably just keep it as a backup PDA in case something happens to my new one, but that's just me.

My point? Does it matter? I'll just get flamed anyway.

Newton?
LOL.

EPOCH (sic)?
ROFL.

{And hey : time for a new sig. It's less offensive than your last one, but still.}

AFAIK, Intel's XScale are part of the PalmOS Ready program, but their older StrongARM processor is not.

Two fingers pointing back at you with the name calling. Palm doesn't own an OS anymore, PalmSource does. Palm only makes hardware as a licensee to that OS, just as Sony does. Comparisons between Sony and Palm in this group of threads are in that context. They ARE competitors. In the same way say Shell and Texaco are, though they have the shared interest in a thriving economy based around petroleum products (aka PalmOS).

Handheld Computers:
Palm (Hardware) vs. Sony vs. Handspring vs. HP vs. Toshiba vs. Casio

If Palm (Hardware) can't win enough sales away from the Palm licencees they are toast. PalmSource is a different story.

Bottom line, Palm (Hardware) could fail with PalmSource living on.

One reply was:
"Two fingers pointing back at you with the name calling. Palm doesn't own an OS anymore, PalmSource does. Palm only makes hardware as a licensee to that OS, just as Sony does. Comparisons between Sony and Palm in this group of threads are in that context. They ARE competitors."

Me in response:
OK name-calling my bad. Should not have done it.
I know that Sony and Palm are competitors. I know that soon Palmsource will completely spin off. However it is in Palm (hardwares) best interest to have Sony using Palm OS and NEEDS Sony. Again if CE (PPC) becomes the standard OS Palm will die. We will all move to PPC for compatability reasons alone. The desktop showed that. Sony keeps Palm OS competitive feature wise with anything PPC come up with. There will be little reason for anyone to get a PPC who already has Palm.

Example I have a Sony. When I upgrade I may or may not get a Palm. All I care about is Palm OS as I have invested time and money into it. Before Sony I might have considered a PPC. Now I doubt I ever will. I recomend Palm OS for selfish reasons. I want file compatability with others.

Does Palm lose sales to Sony? Sure. But its survival is at stake in its battle with PPC.

Becoming the standard is MS key to success it always has been. Palm (hardware and software) needs to stave that off. Neither will survive if that happens. Sony is an important part of that strategy

I respectfully disagree - the two companies ARE functionally separated. (In fact PalmSource Inc. are moving into their new headquarters next week.)

For all practical purposes PalmSource owns PalmOS and licences it to various hardware manufacturers (one of whom is Palm Inc.).

The point is that if Palm wants to exploit Palmsource/PalmOS at the expense of other licensees, they can. That practice would make no more or less business sense now than when the two business units were in the same building.

And speaking of smoke and mirrors, look who is still heading up Palm - Eric Benhamou, chairman of 3Com, the supposed "former" owner of Palm.

So who owns it all? 3Com, just like always.

PalmSource Inc. is the owner of the PalmOS. A primary reason for the change from being a subsidiary of Palm Inc. to becoming a distinct, independant company was so that ALL of the licensees would have equal footing. (i.e. Sony, HandSpring, etc. voiced concerns that in sharing their future plans with PalmSource, their competitor, Palm, might get tipped off.)

Functionally, PalmSource and Palm have been separate since early in 2002, and as the legal/business affairs get finalized over the next little while this will become very obvious.

There are plenty of reasons Sony might have chosen the StrongArm...potential risk in XScale's production quantities, perhaps? Maybe Intel's schedule didn't fit Sony's plans or maybe the price of the chips was prohibitive to Sony's margin...there are tons of reasons why Sony might have
have chosen StrongArm, but since this is only rumor...we'll just wait and see what they ship with.