Comments on: Palm TX Handheld Review

The buzzing is really a product of the display, not of the OS or hardware. My T|X is perfectly silent. Others may buzz, depending on what screens they have. Nor is the problem limited to Palm OS, I used to have an Axim X3i that screamed like a banshee, but my other Axims are quiet.

best would be both, but the price would be unattractive, I guess...

That, would be a Treo.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

If Palm produces something worthwhile I'll be back to Palm but I don't see anything worthwhile on the horizon, this T/X isn't the dog's knackers that the Exec is.

Fish

Isn't the .1 Bluetooth upgrade something that can be done via software, if executed properly?

This is a nice machine but still too late. Dropping the price down to $250ish makes it MUCH more palatable, however.

I'll miss the USB drive mode, but that's a minor details.

Looks like I might have to save up my pennies...

One by one, the penguins are stealing my sanity.

Someone (MacMall?) is already selling the TX for $279.99 or so. By Christmas I am sure we'll be able to pick this thing up nearly everywhere online for that price or even a bit above $250. Rememeber the famous Office Depot $100 PDA mail-in rebate? Imagine that one coming around again later this year and mated to a TX?

$250-$10 OD in-store coupon-$50 MIR---$140 & change net cost!
It could easily happen! I got my first LD with the $100 MIR and a $15 in-store coupon! Never sent in the rebate 'cause the LD ended up being such a pig but that's another story...

I don't think soo... First of all, in 2003, there is no way the Tx could have been priced at sub $300 price point!!! That is the most attractive feature of the device. Heck, none of the main competitors of the Tx in the market place TODAY (i.e, the iPAQ rx1950 and lowest end Axim x51) include features like wifi and HVGA screen. So if the PPC competition does not even offer comparable features at this price point NOW, how can Palm possibly be late to the party?

Who said anything about price? You did, simply to obfuscate. The TX is late because the competition (several Windows Mobile/PPC models and the CLIE TH55 + UX50) has had dual wireless for several YEARS already. VGA screens have been around for a while as well. The fact that - on the surface - the TX appears to offer a lot for its price point doesn't change the fact that Palm is very late in offering this combination of features in a SINGLE device.

Try not to Kirvinize like you frequently do, Bubba.

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
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The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Perhaps in the near future we will have the choice to assure ones thoughts are not misused by offering the choice to interact with IT (internet technology) that efficiently and from any PC on the globe offers accountability to ones thoughts securely.

This will aid with the assumption issue vs facts not obtained from the individual and in some cases paid for without any sharing of the wealth with the group that owen their thoughts. Not too accurate when the information has not been veted by the originator(s) of the thoughts.

Just some thoughts to save time and money at a later date.

E-T

e-tellurian

completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

Yes, I'd appreciate it if he/she spent MUCH less time making jabs at people and spent more time doing the kind of commentary only he/she is capable of (where's that NZ90 vs. LifeDrive comparison, btw?). Even I can only take so many "bubba" jokes per day.

That said, Ryan is being asked to do an impossible task (police each and every user/post on PIC) and has to strike a balance between heavy-handed censorship and running a fairly liberal site. If you cannot trust one of your mods to keep the situation under control then who to turn to??

Basically, Gfunk is a mod, first and foremost. Voice isn't a moderator and therefore doesn't need to be held to such a high standard. I have to admit being disappointed seeing Gfunk going off on such a tirade as I had thought him above such silly rampaging.

I've never asked Ryan to delete anyone's comments--good, bad, or otherwise.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->IIIc-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->T|T5-->TX

We're talking about Palms, not religion, life, or your mother. There's no reason for anybody to get so offended and upset. There is also equally little reason to spend the majority of your internet time talking about how this new Palm offering isn't good enough.

I'd like to think this PDA is actually pretty good. Sure, Palm is about two years late to offering dual wireless to the market. That's not the point. The point is, they've got one out now, and it has undercut the competition in price for its offering. It's the first genuinely solid PDA I've seen from Palm (PalmOne/Palm|SG) since the T3, and before that, the m500.

Just think... hardly three years ago, three hundred bucks bought you an m130 and a 16MB SD card. Now we're looking at dual wireless, solid processor and memory, expansion, an arguably stable OS, and a great screen.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

128 - 100 = 28MB

:D

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

I hope that's PDAs you're talking about! :-0

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

How about shut your f*ce, shut down your computer and go working as a volunteer in Kashmir. I hate the type of ignorance you carry.

Tungsten T|E, Tungsten T|3

Have you considered decaf?

The exciting new 'Don't Buy A Device, Give Your Money To The Red Cross Instead' campaign will feature a massive, hugely-expensive advertising campaign targetting websites and print media dedicated to the competitive Palm and Symbian platforms.

When asked why microsoft didn't simply donate this massive advertising budget to those in need, a microsoft spokesman commented, 'Shut your face, pinko; we're just here to try to screw over the competition... oh, are you recording? I mean't to say, bill loves the poor, and he's thrilled to be helping those in need. Thankyou.'">

I debated on whether or not to take the time to respond to this discussion but what the heck, slow tv night and I am stuck in a hotel so ......

I find it interesting at those who are of the mind to take shots at those that are so small they won't give away 100% of their income for whatever reason. Bill Gates, other than his house from what I have read does not lead an "high life" lifestyle and gives away huge sums of money - in an intelligent way of seed money rather than just writing a check and moving on. While not a big MS fan in some (PDA) areas, MS does employe people who get paid and spend that money and ahhh yes even give some of it away to help the unfortunate. Some of us, even those buying the new Gadgets do give away 10% or more, do volunteer work, go on missions trips to third world countries and use the evil gadgets to be more effective, get more done, and (ahh evil) make more money to be able to help more people. Would they (we) be better people if we went back to an stone tablet or even worse, a PalmIII? How dare you judge those you do not know or even more importantly mess up a perfectly good PDA discussion with this load of crap. Take to to this site: www.liberalweanies.com and they will be glad to respond.

Dr. Steve Lansing

TVoR

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

And remember that m$ effectively *pays* Dell to use wince...

This is a neat accomplishment by palm, and a fine looking device. :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Your comments further on up about the case quality are moot. This is the same superb case design as was used on the TE series and the T5. The III days were long ago...

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

Home button is now a hard button. It's referred to on the website as the Home/Favorites button, so maybe if you hold it down it pops up a list of favorites.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

I know I must've made a bad post when I get confused with TVoR. :)

As does almost every mobile phone, for the same obvious reasons. :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

I hope (for your sake) that you're being sarcastic. The III and V series Palms were the last ones ever made with good cases. Everything else since then has had a stunning number of problems with material quality, durability, buttons, paint, etc. I have several old PDAs based on the original Palm design (various Pilots, III, IIIx, IIIxe, TRGpro) and these cases have all stood the test of time. Nice plastic, functional-as-he11, rugged, and later models even had a simple flip lid so no case was necessary.

The TE and its variants are an embarassment to the Palm legacy.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Palm V/Vx were solid units but the buttons didnt have much of a lifetime. I had a sunken power button & a contacts button on my Vx after maybe 8 months of daily use.

I'd wager that the m500s were the turning point for Palm---well-designed, slim/stylish/solidly built casings but lots of "internal" issues---batteries going DOA, SUDS, flaky digitizers etc.

At least it seems that the newest batch of Palm devices is solidly built but still needing patching (LD, Treo 650) or decently built and quite stable (TX).

You can definitely take my word on the LD. Please note that when I applaud its PHYSICAL build quality I make NO claims whatsoever to the robustness of its OS/memory architecture/HD fragility. I am JUST talking about case materials/rigidity/button response etc.

As to the TX, I have one sitting here next to my T5 and it's a good notch or two above in terms of both aesthetics and quality. Definitely the best that the lameduck T|E spinoffs can hope to be in both categories. The usual complains aside (no LED, no vibrate, no VR, no G1 option), there's nothing that's jumped out at me so far. No resets SO FAR when doing things that brought my LD & patched T5 to their knees (downloading email attachments when in landscape mode via wi-fi, letting a BT connection time ou then immediately trying to reconnect etc).

I am going to start using this sucker fulltime today and will pull NO PUNCHES and make NO APOLOGIES if it fails to perform. All details will be thoroughly reported on PIC's front page & forums.

So far the wi-fi implementation is leagues better than the T|C, LD or SDIO card. Performance (ie wi-fi range) is a bit weaker than either of the two older units, unfortunately. This is all , of course, very early, seat of pants testing.

Other than that, most models have had one patch, if not two.

I stand corrected. I'll give you the primitive Zire/m150 and Zire 21 but the T2 with its Damned Digitizer Drift + feeble battery doesn't count. Nor does the biodegradable m515 with its USB HotSync "issues".

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

JLM.

Right now my personal view on this is that, about 1.5 years later, Palm have almost caught up with the Sony Clie TH55. Maybe in 2006 or 2007 they'll finally beat Sony's 2004 device.

- Julian

I think the LD has like a 1780mah or something. Still beats the 900mah T3 battery like a drum, with improved Proc, lower speed and NVFS, the T|X should be strong. Minus "brighter" screen.

Twizza,
Yeah, but the Sony handheld engine could run datebook without buffering! Nevertheless, it would have been interesting to see what Sony could have delivered by now.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

No, a device with higher specs than all comparable wince devices is not disappointing. Moron. :)

> "...1400+ would have been better. [or] the LDs 1660mAh battery...."

Why stop there? If palm could have fitted a 9999mAh battery in the T|X it would have lasted for years on a single charge. It would also have weighed 4Kg. Idiot! It's not the size of the battery thats important, its the battery *life*. Most wince devices last little more than a day, so, hell, this kicks their asses, right? :)

> "...1250 is the same as the T5..."

But T|X has lower battery consumption! So it lasts longer! Arrrgh! Moron, moron, moron! :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Yeah, sorry, I just get carried away sometimes. :D

> "...If the Treo 650 (released a YEAR ago) can have a removable 1660mAh battery then why can the new flagship PDA not have one?..."

HK, that's not a powerful analogy. Let me show you. For example, compare your statement with this one:

"If the 2004 Kenworth T800 truck (released a YEAR ago) can have a 16-liter 600 horsepower engine, then why can't my flaship 2005 Toyota Camry XLE?"

Well, it's easy, right? The Kenworth truck needs a large engine, because of the sort of things it does. The Toyota has an engine that's the right size for the sort of things people do with Camrys. People who buy Camrys might like them to go fast, but they don't want a giant 16-liter engine. It would look silly. It would be clumbsy. A giant engine would spoil those great Camry lines.

Got it? :)

If you're still having trouble, then about this one:

"If the Saturn V (first launched 37 YEARS ago) can have an engine capable of achieving 7,500,000 lbf of thrust, then why can't my flaship 2005 Toyota Camry XLE?"

See above. :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Lag/frequent crashes/heat/thickness/decent battery life/solid build quality.

All of those are LD traits that the T3 doesn't have.

Give us a unit in a metal body with NO harddrive, 128mb RAM, and otherwise LD specs (dual wireless, VR, LED) and THEN we'll have the true T3 successor.

Hmmm...you got me...might this have something to do with vandalism on a building followed by three minus two?

I compared T5 & TX side by side using the stock Palm butterfly jpeg image and the stock ocean picture. Colors are definitely richer and deeper on the TX. Whites are a tad whiter with a hint of blue instead of a faint yellow in the T5. In addition, the grey TX status bar is a tad less intrusive when you're flipping through photos.

The TX also pulls images off of an SD card (even 7mp ones!) quite speedily-almost as fast as the LD! I seem to recall reading about optimizations made to the Media app for the TX.

So far, so good. 2 days and counting and STILL no crashes! Every program survived the transition from the T5 other than the Think Outside keyboard driver & AvantGo (latest build).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

(I'm kinda tempted to turn in my Treo 650 to get one of these.)

Despite what many people say, I believe people who buy PDA's (beside Doctor Opinion of course) are generally knowledgable techies (to a degree) and would have seen a variety of articles all over the media declaring POS dead, and would know that Palm is releasing a Win CE device. Despite the nice specs of the TX they will be reluctant to invest in POS now.

Surur

Knowledgable techies are generally extremely reluctant to use m$ products. They know that wince devices have lousy battery life, they know wince devices don't sync, and they know that their fave applications are only on the Palm OS.

If, on the other hand, you mean "wanna-be techies" such as Visual Basic coders and MCSEs, well, sure, they'll buy wince, but that's just becuase they get their technical info from m$ marketing materials. :)

> "...would have seen a variety of articles all over the media declaring POS dead..."

If by "articles" you mean your sloppy posts, then yes, they're all over the media. Except, of course, where you've been banned for trolling, spamming, and generally cluttering things up. :)

> "...Palm is releasing a Win CE device..."

Knowledgable techies recognize that when Bill Gates pays hundreds of thousands (or even millions) to have wince ported onto a market dominating device made by Palm, this is hardly cause to worry about the future of the Palm Economy. :)

Hey Bill? You want a T|X with wince? Cough up the cash, bo :)

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"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Surur: Blah x 10^3
Moi: Don't you ever get tired of advertising Windows Docile devices?

I think PDA's sell to the technically inclined, not to soccer mum's. The WM Treo was certainly well covered in the technical media. These are just from the first 4 ages from about 400 results. The people waiting for a $300 TX will be well aware of this story.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051009/NEWS/510090313/1006/BUSINESS

"And now even the Palm operating system (Palm OS) that started the whole trend is about to go the way of the floppy disk — replaced by a system from archrival Microsoft."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/27/windows_palm/

Beatific Gates blesses the Windows Palm

"We don't need another operating system... It's too much effort".

http://www.marketwatch.com/news

Microsoft, Palm launch new Treo

http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1127842097.htm

Bill Gates Puts A Palm In His Pocket

http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=38339

Microsoft, Palm Launch Treo Mobile Phone
"The weakening position of the Palm OS in the market was further seen when PalmSource recently agreed to be acquired for $324 million. "

Microsoft, Palm make peace, plan new Windows phone

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nN26121943

Palm and Microsoft officially announce Windows Treo

http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/64355

http://www.nytimes.com/

Microsoft's truce with Palm, its longtime rival in palmtop software, was forged with a rare agreement to allow Palm to tinker with the Windows Mobile software.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/242338_msftpalm27.html

One-time rivals Microsoft Corp. and Palm Inc. revealed details Monday of their jointly developed Treo smartphone, the first to replace software from a former Palm subsidiary with Microsoft's now-dominant mobile operating system.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002522794_ctia27.html
Palm, Microsoft forge peace with handheld

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/27/BUGADEUANQ1.DTL&type=business

Palm bets its future on Microsoft's OS
Handheld pioneer decides it must work with its rival

etc etc.

Many of these pages are just normal newspapers, not tech publications. Most PDA buyers are upgraders, and probably follow the trials and tribulations of Palm quite closely.

Surur

Surur

Expect to be surprised, then. I think they've got something quite unlike anything we've seen cooking in the non-phone category.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Yep, I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. A cross between the LifeDrive and the IBM Soulpad or Blackdog Linux. With a QWERTY keyboard.

Palm's vision is "The future of computing is mobile computing." Their idea is that eventually *all* the important stuff you do will be with you. People will still use PCs of course, but they will increasingly be there just to give you access to a full-size keyboard, mouse and screen. All the stuff that makes the thing "your computer" will be in your mobile device.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Here is what a T|X device of this size should look like. That would justify the extra size and make for a huge improvement in functionality. (battery excepted)

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/tt7.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Actually, as I just posted on another thread, it's time they go much smaller and slimmer than that. They should be looking to the popularity of the iPod Nano and trying to develop a super-simple PDA that you hardly know is in your pocket. OK, Fossil took this a little *too* far, but something between their wristwatch PDA and the Visor Edge would be a sweet spot, IMO.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

It's been done; expensive but it's here:

www.oqo.com

Besides, the PC in the pocket isn't anything new. Anyone here remember the Toshiba Libretto? Yes and look at what happened to that. Strangely, there doesn't seem to be much demand for a pocketable Windows XP PC. Even the demand for Tablet PC seems to be lacklustre. It seems the money's to be made in the smartphone business.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

And while we're at it, aren't electronics supposed to get smaller as time goes on? Why are Palm PDA's GROWING in size each year? Geez, the next thing from Palm might end up being the same size as the Newton (OMP that is, they have a few more cycles to grow to the 2100)

I've been arguing that Palm neededto explore the possibilities of making a Palmtop™ (a micro laptop). Palm execs felt otherwise and without a true multitasking OS, such a device would face the same limitations that users of the CLIE UX50 (the best Palmtop™ ever sold) users struggle with daily.

Only problem is that - as the Sony U series is showing - Real Windows™ in a tiny package is close to being perfected. I expect most people will prefer to work with Real Windows™ apps rather than using ones that can just sync with/have partial compatibility with Real Windows™. Had Palm been able to release PalmLinux in 2003 and sell the Palmtop™ idea to businesses as a way to cut down on support costs for employees that don't REALLY need to be given Real Windows™ laptops. In the past 2 years, Palm could have entrenched itself as a supplier of inexpensive, stable, easy-to-support laptop replacements. Now we're almost in 2006. The "Windows™" of opportunity are closed.

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7541#103141

And here's a funny blast from the past:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=1160

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

You have alot to learn about Corporate IT. They gave up Palm long ago in favor of Pocket PC. Also very few companies use the Exchange wireless server. Most use the RIM Blackberry Exchange add-on. That may change with Windows Mobile 5 but it will be awhile.

RIM is expensive! Most companies have Exchange. So their choice of devices is limited to M$ ones. This gives a new angle (just).

Heh, that's exactly what James Alchin told Bill Gates about Windows when Gates asked why it was taking so long to deliver Longhorn. It's an old story that isn't unique to Palm and you're not saying anything everyone including Palm doesn't already know.

I'm hearing noises from multiple sources that lead me to suspect that Linux things from Palm may very well precede the release of Palm OS for Linux. Just not for the Treos.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

First, recall that we heard almost a year ago that Palm was working on Linux stuff from the same people who correctly stated they were working with Windows Mobile. This was even before PalmSource announced their Linux plans, in fact.

Fast forward to today: we've got a member of this community who appears to be within PSI talking about a Linux clamshell device they are aware of being developed within Palm. And we've got Palm showing up as a customer on Wind River's website (which doesn't mean they are customer for Wind River's consumer Linux platform, but it could). And we've got LinuxDevices.com saying they've been told that Palm is developing devices on a Wind River Linux OS... but seeming to get the "phone" part of that leak wrong, since it's in direct conflict with public statements by Palm executives.

Any one of these is easily discounted, but together they start to add up to a picture, especially in the current context of Palm's business.

Palm has finally made definite statements that they will replace Garnet with Palm OS for Linux once PalmSource has it ready. According to ITWeek, Ken Wirt said Palm is "waiting for PalmSource to port the Palm environment to Linux before moving away from Palm OS 5." But that doesn't mean that they couldn't have non-Palm Linux products along side their Garnet products for a period of time. And just because Colligan said there weren't any plans for (non-Palm) Linux or Symbian *Treos* doesn't mean they wouldn't consider a new Linux platform for a device that is not a phone.

Basically, I'm thinking that all this sounds like the first rumblings of devices from Hawkins' infamous "Third Business" coming on the wind. If it's as "disruptive" a device class as Hawkins claims, it wouldn't be surprising that Palm thought it would need a different kind of middleware than Palm OS will provide for Linux.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Wow, you know what Palm's up to with their Linux stuff? Why didn't you fill us in earlier? :O

I'm 100% sure that Palm is working with Access/PalmSource on getting Palm Linux running, and I'm fairly sure that their hiring of Linux folk is to help develop Palms for PL and customize the PLOS just like they've always done. Those are just my thoughts, everything else is a rumor.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

Sorry if you were offended by my gratuitous jab at Microsoft. My point was that we are all--especially the folks at Palm--well aware of the shortcomings of Garnet when used to power devices with multiple radios and other modern complexities. You're not telling anyone anything. The fact that Palm was so anxious two years ago to get onto a preemptive multitasking OS that they started building devices on Windows Mobile (and possibly Linux) is a good indication that they are not "cheaping out on us" as you suggested in your original post. If I'm correct, they're not even waiting for PalmSource to make their own Linux move.

If you had argued that Palm and PalmSource should have seen this coming sooner, or should have done the Cobalt middleware on Linux from the start instead of trying to roll their own kernel from scratch, well, there I would agree with you. But that was a costly error of judgment, not a manifestation of being "cheap."

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

The "forum" might be nice, but don't go accusing any of the people of it! ;-)

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

Now that depends, people might be posting from Iran, China etc. so who's to know?

Besides, how do you know someone's a moron, are you a psychologist? Have you carried out any intelligence tests? How do you even know that you yourself aren't a moron?

People may express ill-thought out opinions but that doesn't make them morons. If it did then everyone in the world's a moron at some point or another.

But if they go around *posting* stupid stuff in public forums, well, hey, they might get flamed
If you go around posting derogatory remarks about people you might just get sued for libel and defamation of character.
It's all part of life's great tradition of litigation, "my friend", internet or no internet.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/6221.html

With carrier subidies, they shouldn't be much more expensive than the TX.

CCCP: Creative Commonists for Copyleft Protection

I'm sorry, but his immaturity is getting old.

-cnegrad

From that standpoint, the TX is a very nice PDA. And I suspect that the "niche" market for PDA's will stick around for some time and be a fairly large "niche" at that. No reason for Palm to not make money wherever they can. Market share/mind share aren't anything to sneeze at either. The TX and the Z22 are both excellent units for their target markets and at their price points. I can't imagine they won't sell well.

And please, don't go trying to label me a "Palm apologist." I've done my fair share of griping about Palm. (My tagline ought to be a clue.) But when Palm goes and does something right, I don't see much point in whining about it.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

So even Palm is acknowledging it has a rosier future making smartphones than making handhelds.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Actually, there is more: dual card slot (one CF), voice recorder, charging LED, dual batttery option. The HE 330 was innovative! Granted that WiFi is a great feature, but some would give it up to have all the rest of those HE features.

I will very likely be buying the TX, but it doesn't completely meet the requirements of the "mythical color HandEra."

Regarding the horse analogy above, it's funny you should bring that up. When I do live in the USA, I live in Amish country. Horses are extremely common where I live and are used for both transportation and work by a very large percentage of the population. Honestly, I wouldn't be able to drive for ten minutes without seeing a horse on the road. So although you might not see them very often, there are many who do.

In the same way, I don't doubt that "it's rare to see a PDA in use when compared to a mobile..." if by that you mean a standard "dumbphone". I certainly admitted as much earlier. But if you mean compared to smartphones, then I'd have to suggest that depends on the crowd you run in. I rarely see a true "smartphone" in use, but I see plenty of PDA's.

Just to make it clear: I am only suggesting that using the word "dead" (past tense) of a product category that is still selling at these kinds of numbers is overstating the case. If the PDA is truly dead already, Palm shouldn't have even bothered releasing the TX and Z22. But I believe, and Palm certainly believes, there is enough life left in the PDA category to make a nice little profit from the sales of TX's and Z22's. And if Palm never realeases another new PDA, you can come right back here and say, "See, I told you so."

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

NON-CELLULAR PDAS are DEAD.

Wimax and voip will kill the cellcos.

CCCP: Creative Commonists for Copyleft Protection

Maybe. Given that Wimax deployment currently stands at zero it might be a little premature to declare it the victor.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Funny, when making that post I had a feeling it would be inevitable that someone would bring up the Amish! ;-)

Sticking with the analogy, I felt it was appropriate as the horse, unlike the dinosaur, is still around, just that it's in the minority unless you're amongst the privileged few who live amongst the Amish!

So although you might not see them very often, there are many who do
Are you suggesting everyone in the states has gone Amish overnight? Truth be told, most people around the world (yes, even in developing countries) would not routinely see a horse on the road.

Funny how we've gone from the tungsten Tx to horses to the Amish!
I'm glad they've put that memory into it. It's a good device but no voice recording and no vibrating alarm are deal breakers for me. Now if they can put that memory into a forthcoming PalmOS Treo then Palm will be onto a winner!

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

What, no voice recorder? Sorry, that's a deal-breaker. What were they thinking?!

Thanks for the visual of a big herkin' Yagi Ham radio beam antenna hanging off my SD card slot, though. 'Course you'd need guy wires for those high wind situations, but I understand those retract into special reel housings on the side of the card.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Wi-Fi on the TX is great, really. I was previously using a Sony TJ-37 with Wi-Fi, and due to the lack of WPA and the smaller screen, I almost never made use of the Wi-Fi. The TX is considerably faster, and the web browser, and especially the Wi-Fi management software, is MUCH better than the Sony had.

I'm using Quick News to pull down RSS feeds and Podcasts wirelessly, and I love it. I'm just kicking myself because I only bought a 128meg SD card, thinking I wouldn't have any more use for a storage card than I did on the Sony. I find myself wanting to load hundreds of megs of Podcasts onto the thing.

The sound quality is actually quite good on it, incidentally, both with the speaker and using earphones. I give it thumbs up so far.

I think you're right once, and a bit off second.

First, "storage purposes" is on the money. The key, I believe, is how much "RAM" the applications think is available. Whether it's real RAM or not doesn't seem to matter to the applications.

Second, I had a T5, and there were no problems with how it handled memory. Since the OS reported roughly 64Mb (minus whatever), the applications that demanded RAM (i.e., wouldn't use card storage) ran fine.

The exception to this "RAM" is "RAM" rule would be the Lifedrive, but only as far as performance goes. Since the 64Mb "RAM" actually uses a hard drive partition, while the applications may run OK, seeing 64Mb or so, the applications would encounter the latency problem, and run a little slower.

Thanx for your post.

I've been around the block once or twice - Pilot 1000, PalmPilot Personal, 2Mb OS3 Upgrade, IIIc, m505, Tungsten T, Tungsten T3, Tungsten T5, Tapwave Zodiac 2.

YMMV.

I am reluctant to buy any Palm device as of late due to screen quality issues. The screen whine (which I have experienced on a T2 and TE)seems to be pervasive throughout the different models (including the T5).

Another irksome thing Palm does/did is use great looking Sony screens (bright with even color balance) and lousy Sharp screens (dimmer with a odd yellow tint). Has Palm finally decided to go with a single, good LCD manufacturer (or heck two GOOD LCD manufacturers) or are they still mixing the good with the bad on the newer devices?

I wouldn't hesitate to get a TX if I could be assured a fantastic display with rich color where white actually is white, not an off blue or yellow color.

Keep us posted, please. This screen whine issue sometimes seems to creep up after time.

I told my wife it could have been worse. I stopped by the Harley shop before I went over to Best Buy.

Until I seen this, I was about to jump ship too now that connectivity with the Macintosh is improving for WinCE devices. What's holding me up is Pocket Quicken. Doesn't have a Mac conduit for that software yet for the WinCE side.

For me, this price point is killer and now I doubt I will be using a WinCE device again for a while.

In case you are wondering, the very simplified reason I left WinCE; not only did I buy a Mac, I hated then and still do the memory management scheme. They also exhibit similar issues with registry problems and strange behavior after removal and installation of software as the desktop PC's. Since I don't believe computers should work like that I purchased a Mac. The rest is history.

Man, where do I send your free cookie to?

Every time I hear that small screen comment, I drift off into the dreamy utopian world of the Treo 800g and 480v. Nvertheless, it seems that it will be the 800w which will first see the light of day.

480v
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo480v.jpg

800g
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800g.jpg

800w
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800w.jpg

L-N-M
http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/Pix/lochnessmonster.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

I'll stick with power supply.

Not the Treo part, just a dumbphone. But I do always have the Palm IR keyboard in one of the small pockets in the backpack I carry (never could live with a briefcase). My Palm is always with me, and I don't use the keyboard until I'm going to do some serious text entry. This combo really works well for me and often saves me from having to take my laptop with me on shorter trips. Tiny keypads (Treo, etc.) are just don't work for me. For meetings, the keyboard is often out, letting me quickly enter a lot of text as the need dictates. It'll get an initial curious look from some of the laptop users at the meeting, but that's in. Of course YMMV.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

http://www.eholster.com/

I wear suspenders & golf shirts typically (no fashion advice, please), so hanging a bunch of stuff on my pants doesn't work. The e-Holster lets me carry around, well, pretty much anything I want. My fully-packed configuration has consisted of:

- PDA
- keyboard
- phone
- pager
- glasses
- medications
- wallet
- Swiss Army knife
- SDcard drive
- corporate ID access card (on tether)

all at the same time.

And you won't look like a geek if you wear it under a vest, etc., like I do.

I highly recommend them.

I just got my TX. I had a few problems with installation, just like with my T3, thinking I could just let the CD upgrade me. Crash city. I renamed my account and started from scratch and just like with the T3 that worked much better.

I've only tried a few apps and so far "SmartList To Go" resets it. and PXA Clocker does not understand the device.

I will try the BT connection with my V710 tomorrow but like I mentioned in the discussion forums I may not be using it the way others do (I use it as a dialup modem to AT&T Worldnet at 14.4k).

Wish I had a v710 to try it with, but it probably comes down to having the right modem init strings to do dial up. If you're trying to do a 1xRTT connection, it's probably something like: AT$QCMDR=3;AT$QCQNC=0

If you're fed up with your v710, give it to me. ;)

I wonder if the seem edits are the trick here?

I tried my TX on a fresh non-hacked E815, did the usual ##dialup trick and still could not maintain a connection longer than 2 mins. (using any number of drivers).

AFAIK this 815 had never been used with a previous BT device. I'll delete some of the pairings and repower the phone next oppportunity I get to test the TX & the 815 again.

How about VersaMail? What if you launch Blazer, then connect, do your web stuff then switch over to VersaMail? Is the connection lost or is it maintained?

Folks, the E815 and V710 are NEARLY the same as far as BT DUN. On the V710 DUN is enabled by default (but not OBEX but that's not an issue for PDA usage). On th E815, all it takes is rapidly keying in ##dialup to reenable DUN permanently.

LOL, if i get that fed up with the V710, I'll either use my class-action freebie and get an E815 (assuming it can be made to work reliably with the TX/LD), a CDMA RAZR (assuming it ever shows up and works on the TX), one of the new Samsung A970s (assuming they support BT DUN) or just jump ship & go Cingular (unlikely).

Basically, I/we need to find a Verizon BT solution that works with the TX!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

I have on a couple of occasions gotten coldsync to start to handshake with the TX when using the '-t usb' driver option, but it then hangs fairly quickly.

More investigation needed here, I'm afraid.

On the other hand, if you've got an SD card and a decent reader, you can get files onto your TX pretty rapidly as a work around, until such time as someone figures out and posts how to sync to the TX with Linux.

Unfortunately reality has a nasty habit of coming up and smacking you in the face when you walk around with closed eyes. J.K. is finding that you can fool some of the people all of the time (j.k. fan club?), and all of the people some of the time, but eventually the truth will catch up on you.

Surur

Kirvin is the definition of a False Prophet.

Think of me as part of the 5th Estate.

Surur

Or is that the Fifth column?

:-) ;-) ;-P

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

If Kirvin spoke in a forest and there was no-one to hear him, would he still be wrong?

Surur

Optimism is a good thing to have, Surur... Try to get some, and come back when you do but until then, please dont post again.

Can you blame them?

a) The smell of DEATH is upon PalmOS.
b) Palm and PalmSource have treated developers like lepers.
c) How often can you kick a dog (break a developer's apps/fail to provide any semblance of support) before they run away from "home" looking for a kindly family to take them in?
d) Momentum and downward spirals are difficult to stop.
e) Developer resources are finite and Palm/PalmSource's confused OS "strategy" (PalmOS 4/PalmOS 5/Cobalt (PalmOS 6)/PalmLinux (PalmOS 7)/PalmSource Linux featurephone OS/Palm Linux featurephone OS instills panic among the herd of developers, quickly leading to a stampede away from PalmOS.

Why the he11 would Palm/PalmSource continually tout the number of apps as well as the (bogus) number of developers on PalmOS, yet then turn around and treat said developers like crap? That mystery ranks right up there with crop circles and US presidential elections...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

While I am certain their decision was made out of frustration with Palm/PalmSource and the inadequate support/documentation they receive, you have to notice the line that rubs the bu11$hit in the noses of new TX owners---"We will continue to sell Palm OS products".

Come on guys, at least give the TX faithful one final "unsupported" beta release or cut off support on the 31st of December or something...

In all actuality, this sort of "circle the wagons" mentality has been going on FAR too long by a number of POS developers-they just didn't post an official EOL notice on their website. I can VIVIDLY recall about 2 years ago buying 3 titles in a day from Handmark. BumpAttack Pinball was one of them. They had promised, but never delivered, a 320*480 version for T3 owners (the Sony version had been out since the NR70 days). I can list several other examples but will refrain from doing so here. It's standard custom in this business to just leave people hanging and not issue official termination notices...again, someone at Palm should read this and TAKE NOTICE but I fear the damage has already been done.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

What I was referring to here was a much more detailed explanation he wrote to the Palm Entrepreneurs Forum.

I should add that I haven't heard of any other developers on PEF abandoning Palm OS. I won't say there's not frustration and uncertainty over what Palm's OS plans for the future might be, but most of the people I've talked with are doing as well as ever with their Palm software business and see no reason to walk away from it.

The biggest thing that hurts 3rd party developers is the ever-diminishing royalty percentage that the online retailers pay developers these days. That's what you hear the most discussion about on the PEF.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Not creating your own, no, it isn't. Not until the Protein API, anyway.

It's not a question of arrogance, IMO, it's a question of not coming up with a specification they can live with and making a decision to stick with it. Exposing an API as public (supported) means you've thought things through far enough that your system can handle whatever people might try to do with that API. It involves time, disciplined forethought, and careful testing--all stuff that delays the release of devices on the possibility that someone might want to develop, say, a 3rd party dynamic input area.

I can accept that Palm or PalmSource make some trade-offs in what they decide to make supported APIs. They have limited resources compared to the likes of Microsoft. What's harder to swallow is the appearance of a development process that is so loose that there isn't an attempt to lock the underlying interface down even just for internal use. When system hacks break with each new device it's easy to say "well that wasn't supported" but it also is a sign that basic stuff like coming up with internal specifications and adhering to them across development teams is not happening. And that's not a good sign.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Sure, but that was a DA (desktop accessory) which was a well established form of system extension that came over to the Palm OS from the Mac in its old Motorola 68k days. A popup keyboard DA is quite a different animal from the dynamic input area that was introduced with the Tungsten T3. Internally the mechanism is different, from what I understand, due to the different processor architecture. Outwardly, it didn't resize the active form, so it didn't have to provide events for developers to manage changing application screen dimensions. It was a much simpler thing.

The period we're talking about (at least with regard to the DIA example) is really just the last couple of years, although Jean said he thinks the trouble began with OS 5.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Big disappointment for me, too. I really thought this would be a replacement for my T3.

I wonder how bad the DIA situation really is with the TX. It may be that it finally just got on Jean's last nerve and he decided he couldn't roll out and support yet another version of Fitaly virtual for just one device. I'm almost thinking I should talk to him and offer to donate some time to help him crank out just *one more* Fitaly release for the TX.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

This isn't to say that Palm hasn't ticked off the developers in other ways, but it does seem that there are no perfect models out there.

Of course what you don't hear about here since they interviewed relative old-timers are the new developers that are coming in to Palm OS. There is a lot of fresh interest because of the success of the Treo and there are a ton of Linux developers champing at the bit to get their hands on Palm OS for Linux.

I'm glad to see this kind of interview because it thoroughly debunks TVoR's insulting depictions of Palm developers as herds of frightened sheep. It underscores that most of us are entrepreneurs first and geeks second. We watch the market, we predict, we take calculated risks and we hedge our bets because our livelihoods are at stake. Most Palm developers occupy niches, or at least focus on discrete product or customer categories, and these market segments are all different in terms of how things like a Windows Mobile Treo or the movement to Linux will affect them. We're not a herd, and by and large we're not so easily panicked as the small segment of power users that lives on this forum.

No developer I know of doesn't see the damage that has been done to the Palm platform by the Cobalt miscue. But there's a lot of opportunity anyway because the Palm platform still has a great share of a huge and growing mobile device market. I think the significant thing is that so many developers run against the media's "sunset of Palm OS" drum-beat, roll out Palm OS products, do well with them, and stoke their optimism.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

While things do not appear to be as downcast as VOR suggests, its certainly not as neutral or even upbeat as you suggest. The article overal has a resigned tone, and the very fact the questions get asked and aswered also speaks volumes.

Regarding new software for POS, Ive heard a few people (notably the podcaster at pda24/7) complaining that new software is becoming pretty rare on POS, with most software just being updates to existing titles.

Surur

Beersy, stop posting B.S. statements like this. Your rose-colored, delusional "visions" of the harsh reality of the PalmOS platform circa Fall 2005 are becoming ridiculous.

The facts are that PalmOS developers are pi$$ed off after years of being treated like crap by Palm/PalmSource and they see that PalmOS is now in the same death spiral that Netscape, WordPerfect, etc. entered years ago. They are angry and frightened that their livelihoods might disappear literally overnight if they continue to bet on a losing platform. This is where momentum becomes critical. If CES Dewar decided to do a Windows Mobile version of DateBk5, do you think he would have the resources to also continue developing the PalmOS version? Once developers start porting their apps to WinMob, PalmOS software will begin to languish. We've already seen many apps become abandonware, considered by their developers to be not worth the effort to update to run on the hacked-up recent versions of PalmOS. And once WinMob gains an advantage over PalmOS in terms of having more NEW/better featured apps (arguably already the case), one more PalmOS advantage will have disappeared. Who's fault is that, Beersy?

And what happens if StyleTap Platform gets improved and the PalmOS UI is grafted onto Windows Mobile devices? Simple: PalmOS implodes.

I'm surprised to hear you've finally stopped defending that pile of steaming dung previously know as Cobalt. Did you and Mistress Dianne Hackborn have a falling out?

Leave the SPIN, B.S. and outright LIES to the other Palm sites, Beersy. Even Jeff Kirvin seems to have given up after having gotten trapped in his Web of Delusions™. The Truth is (not) out There™, Beersy. Don't pollute Palminfocenter with your odious crap.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

You can continue with these defensive yammerings that anyone who shows up your ignorance has "rose-colored glasses" but I'm perfectly confident that the readers here are bright enough to take the word of five other developers (plus this one) about what developers themselves think about the future of the Palm platform over anything you'd have to say on our behalf.

You've got exactly zero at stake in this since you're not a developer and you have very little reputation left to lose for being wrong (it becoming a pretty regular habit these days). Suffice it to say that you're words are cheap. But thanks for your concern!

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Quite sure. He/she's said so him/herself. He says he's played around with PDA Toolbox, which is a way to create applications if you don't really want to learn how to code. It's not really a way to make commercial applications.

At any rate, we'll NEVER know the real story about Cobalt. Unless a device actually ships with it sometime in '06, I am considering it dead & buried and a major misstep for the PalmCONomy.

I agree. I don't think there's going to be any good reason to start developing a Cobalt device anywhere near the release date for Palm OS for Linux, so while there will likely be a few devices that have been in the pipeline since before PalmSource's Linux announcement I think that's the most we can expect from Cobalt at this point. I was kind of surprised to hear ACCESS say they were interested in Cobalt, but I don't really expect much to materialize from that.

Everything that made Cobalt interesting will be in Palm OS for Linux, from what I understand. So the best we can say about Cobalt, IMO, is that it was a good start on Palm OS for Linux.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Uh huh, if you say so. But you're no developer. You sure as hell don't make a living as a developer. So unless you really insist on looking stupid I suggest you stop trying to tell those of us who do make a living as Palm developers what we think.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Why am I not surprised by this? ;-o

I've decided to stay with the TX, but VM is outta here. I'm looking at Snapper and Chatter. I'll probably go with Snapper.

Thanks!

Mike

Looking forward to that Linux kernel where we'll always be able to count on someone to hack something out when we need it!

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Looking forward to that Linux kernel where we'll always be able to count on someone to hack something out when we need it!

Looking at Skarky et al, I thought the Palm community already worked that way?

Surur

Sure we do, when we can. But Palm OS is going to become a lot more open to this next year. It'll also help having a mobile platform that is the darling of all those Linux hackers out there and supported by tools and APIs that are familiar to them. You know... the network effect. ;)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

I already pointed out that while the network effect is generally a lot weaker for mobile devices than for PCs, there is at least one respect where it can be significant. That is when a mobile platform is designed to leverage existing developer skills among 3rd party developers, handset makers, or within the operator networks themselves. For example, I think the .NET Compact Framework has been an important thing Microsoft has done to contribute to the success of Win CE, which previously had been an ugly step-child of Windows in terms of developer tools, support, and consistency in the API.

I expect Linux to get an even bigger kick from this since it leverages not just 3rd party developer skills, but proficiencies and standards that are commonplace within the vendor and operator IT shops. Add Palm's 400k application developer base to that and you've got instant traction for the platform at all the levels you need it.

Also remember, Microsoft's idea of the network effect isn't always considered a positive thing since there's the perception (largely justified) that they only want you to be networked into their own proprietary infrastructure. In other words, it's equated with vendor lock-in. ACCESS and OSDL aren't interested in converting anyone to a particular religion--they're can support them all--and that gives them an inherent competitive advantage that I know makes Microsoft very nervous.

How'd we get back on this topic from a thread about BT pairing problems?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

However he is refering to the bottom "silkscreen", the menubar (the one that shows a clock and other features). There is a home button on the regular silkscreen area by default, but a lot of the time that area is hidden to provide large screen support.

What I'd be interested in is:

Is it possible to change icons on the bottom menu (I'd love to replace the Find, Alert or Bluetooth icon with a home icon among other things)

Is it possible to change the positioning of the bottom menu when changing screen orientation? Assuming you are in the right handed configuration for screen rotation, it causes the bottom menu to flip to the other side of the handheld. I'd love to retain right handed mode but keep the bottom menu where it was.

The Dell Axim X51v was the only PPC I really took a serious look at. The specs are nice, but it costs more than a TX and it didn't run PalmOS. My minimal playing with PPC's and the stories of others led me to believe I'd regret buying a PPC. YMMV.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

I've tried numerous old and new / large and small cards - ALL of which work in both my Zire 71 and the ancient m130. The TX has a problem. I've had a few people tell me that their TX is fine.

Interestingly, I've been trying to buy one since just after Christmas - but both the Palm online store and ALL of my local electronic shops have been out of stock for weeks. The interrupted supply has finally been restored - but the 'new' TXs seem to have this 'issue' with expansion cards. My suspicion is that the manufacturer/supplier has changed something that is causing this problem.

Truly I DO NOT want to abandon Palm and/or the Palm OS. As I've said before - I do believe it was the best consumer electronics product I've ever seen. I'm just incredibly disappointed that I've wasted three days of my life trying to get the TX working - and then, finally, struggling to bring my Zire 71 back to 'normal' once I'd given up on the TX. And I'm even MORE disappointed that Palm's customer support wasn't the least bit helpful or interested in my problem. Companies go out of business with attitudes like that - and, despite their indifference to me - I'm not yet wanting to say goodbye to Palm...

Surur: Regarding this person's specific problem, he's probably syncing over an old library, hence his hotsync related problem. He should try with a clean install.

Assuming palmnomore does know how to do a hard reset, and assuming that "after a hard reset it would (occasionally) recognize a card", then it wouldn't be an old library problem. But that is assuming the reported "occasionally" is accurate. It's an important word, because it might make all the difference in the world. The way to completely isolate a problem on the handheld is to do a hard reset and then check on that one thing. Otherwise there are a too many variables.

If it works consistently after a hard reset and before any hotsync, then Surur is probably right on, and the problem is an old library. And I also have to agree with him about the $300 handheld he mentions.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

I am in the habit of completely eliminating any potential problems when I upgrade PDA's by:
1. Hotsyncing my PDA with Outlook so that all my "data" is still going to be there.
2. Uninstalling all the software on my computer that has anything to do with my Palm (Palm Desktop, DocsToGo, etc.).
3. Finding and renaming the C:\Program Files\Palm folder on my computer so that a new installation will not find anything leftover from my previous install.
4. Installing the Palm software on my computer as if I had never owned a Palm before (but of course I add the same user name I've been using, otherwise none of my previous Palm apps will be registered).
5. Complete all the steps the installation in #4 tells me to, including the first hotsync, and verify everything is working on the new Palm.
6. Slowly begin reinstalling apps one by one and verifying each works before moving on. (Pilot Install works good for this because you don't have to go through the whole hotsync process every time.)

Yep, that's pretty "anal" of me, but then I'm pretty sure of what the problem is when something goes wrong.

Hopefully someone else who doesn't use Outlook can jump in and tell you how to get your PIM data back without having to re-enter everything one at a time. It's probably simple, but I haven't done it. Another suggestion, if you take this over to the Discussion Forums, you'll likely run into a lot of people much more knowledgable than me.

And finally, if you end up with a working TX, you gonna have to change your user name. ;-)

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

I guess it's time to change my name - no more 'palmnomore'!

Thanks to everyone (esp twrock) for all the advice. I decided to give the TX another try this week. I picked up another one - new and in a sealed box. I got it home and opened it up to discover the contents in disarray. I turned the TX on and found it half-charged and full of someone's data. It was a return - being sold as new! I was beginning to think me and the TX weren't meant to be... So back to the store to pick up another 'new' one. (This time I opened it before I left the store - and it was, in fact, new.)

While it was charging I used the Palm Desktop 'export' function to save my contacts, calendar, etc. I then proceeded to uninstall and delete every hint of Palm and third-party apps on my PC. I created a new user ID and did my first hotsynch. The expansion slot worked perfectly! I then imported my contacts, calendar, etc (almost worked perfectly - unfortunately it drops the 'Category' information for each record... I've since thought more about this and realized I could have simply beamed my contacts, etc from my old device to the TX. Since you can beam by category I wouldn't have lost that info.) I then re-installed all of my old apps - checking the card each time. After a couple of days of playing with it I'm happy to say that all is well!

Apparently I just got lucky when I upgraded my hardware last time and synched to my old username. I now know better - thanks to this site. (I've added Palm Infocenter to my AvantGo so I can keep getting info and advice that actually works!) I think Palm's instructions should caution against synching your new device to your previous data - and strongly suggest the export/import function and/or beaming instead.

So, again, THANKS for your help and suggestions!

"What's the real deal with the TX's ~100MB memory?

It can't all be Flash, can it?"

Yes it can. I have about 115MB usable memory. Some problems with the WSDL (white screen of delay) because the dbcache is not big enough. I am quite pleased with it on the whole. THe wifi and BT work like a charm. Did I mention that DTG 8 works great as well?

BTW, thanks to your Nokia 770 adventure, I have decided that my inital assessment ("solution in search of a problem") was correct and I have passed on at least this version of the 770.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

The TX has its share of flaws (BT chief amongst them) but it has better build quality than any of the plastic bodied T|E variants thus far. It even looks halfway decent due to its, ahem, Cobalt blue/black exterior color. The hard buttons work well, esp. once you've remappped "Home". I do get occasional dbcache insufficient memory errors but a reset solves those.

SUPPOSEDLY a TX ROM update is forthcoming that updates VersaMail as well as somehow addresses some of the dbcache memory issues. If that does indeed occur then the TX will be about as good as you can expect it to be. Battery life is not where my old T|C was but it's still very, very good all things considered. Screen is less blue than my T5 was but I don't think it's the 18-bit one like the LD & T|E2 enjoy. I'd personally rather have 128 total/115mb usable RAM than 64mb/180mb like the T5 had. Just dump it all into main RAM and you don't have to worry about it! That's why I have a 2gb SD card.

If you are at all curious about renentering the Palm scene the TX is likely your wisest move. The quality is SO much better over the T|E. It's far from perfect but considering you can snag new ones for <$250 nowadays, it's a compromise most of us are willing to make.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Thanks for your advice on the GPS and alarm reliability.

Perhaps I wasn't very clear about the keyboard. I do not need a large keyboard. The little pop-up ones at the bottom of the screen on the 51v worked fine with a stylus. Does the TX come with any kind of touch screen keyboard input? If not, how does one input the letters for a memo? I hope it isn't the type where one searches through a table with a cursor. I dislike that method.

I might not have mentioned that I have no experience whatsoever with a PDA except for my chaotic adventure with the Axim 51v.

Richard

http://www.edealinfo.com/cgi-bin/dl?2006/05/04/020.shtml

First off, in my opinion the Palm TX is infintely superior to the Axim x51 in regards to reliability. The TX so far has never had any problems whatsoever and that feat has occured with an inexperienced user entering data and playing with the programs. In the first week that I had the Axim, I found it necessary to perform 3 hard resets and about a dozen soft resets because of crashes in the Windows Mobile 5 operating system. During the second week, in an attempt to fix crashes I had to completely remove the Sync program and Outlook and reinstall them per instructions from Dell. Then I had to again download the huge SP-3 critical patch for Microsoft Office. No matter what I did, the calendar notification system would randomly crash and require a hard reset to enable the audible alarm system to work again. Note that I had not installed any 3rd party software that didn't come from Dell with the original package so the instability was not due to some 3rd party hack. The Axim operating system and/or the associated programs as furnished by Dell are just not stable enough to be used for serious work.

In contrast, the TX calendar notifiers and task alarms are easy to use and the audible alarms have been completely reliable. In general, I found the Palm TX operating system much easier to use although I have been using the Windows operating system for many years and the Palm programming was completely new to me. Once one understands the functions of the silk screen icons and the control buttons, using any of the Palm programs is fairly simple. The whole PDA can be adjusted much to the user's particular preferences. The Favorite's Menu is set by the user. The 4 control buttons can be configured to bring up whatever aps the user wants, and one can use a button to bring up the Favorites menu so that all of the applications are easily accessed in an arrangement defined by the user.

The TX comes with one of the most comprehensive help systems that I have ever seen. One can download a 690 page Adobe PDF manual that covers just about anything one would ever want to know about using the TX!

Of course I haven't yet read that huge manual, and I probably never will. So far I haven't needed any help from that big manual, or from a User's Forum, or from the Palm customer service folks. I obviously cannot compare Palm and Dell in the customer service department since I haven't needed any customer service from Palm. I can definitely assert that Dell's customer support is terrible as I noted in an earlier posting.

To operate the TX, I used the help files built into the PDA for any details that I was unsure about. The only area where I was a little confused even with the pop-up help file was in the transfer of contacts from my address book in Outlook Express to the TX. With some fumbling around, I discovered that I could export my OE address book as a comma separated file to my desktop, and then import that file directly into the TX Contacts program. All of the fields that I used were correctly transferred to the TX using this method. Names, addresses, phone numbers, and e-mail addresses synchronized perfectly. Probably somewhere in that huge manual there is a description of how to import data directly from Outlook Express, but my way works just fine, and it is fast and easy once you know the procedure.

The TX Pocket Tunes music player and Rhapsody cataloging and transfer systems worked flawlessly. One can quickly transfer songs in common musical formats such as wave files to the TX. The music is automatically formatted as MP-3 files on the TX. Songs are easily organized into playlists, and one can edit the file data on an MP-3 recording to arrange names, artists, albums, genre, and ratings to one's personal preferences. The TX speaker is better than that on the X51V; however, I much preferred to use earphones that accurately reproduced the music with both units.

I had some stuttering on the TX if I played songs from the main memory while performing other tasks. This problem did not occur with the Axim. Songs transferred to the SD memory play smoothly on the TX even if a slide show is running simultaneously. I think that MP-3 files and photos belong on the expansion card rather than in the PDA memory as a general rule with any PDA. The main device memory should be kept clear for program execution files so the stuttering abnormality on the TX when playing music from the main memory really isn't important.

The TX music player permits a variable volume boost, a feature that I could not find on the Handheld version of Windows Media Player on the Axim. In ease of use, I would rate the TX's Pocket Tunes Player better than the Windows player. It is not cluttered with buttons designed to sell music to the user, but it does have all of the essential features. Both PDA's played music well, although the Axim could not perform a volume boost for MP-3's that had a low recording level for very soft music. For wxample, a copy of Beetoven's Moonlight Sonata was almost inaudible through the Axim speaker for the relatively gentle first movement with the Windows player set at maximum volume, although the Axim volume was audible on the robust 3rd movement. An ideal volume level for the entire sonata was easily set on the TX but could not be reset in any simple manner on the Axim as far as I could discern. Perhaps one could push all of the equalizer bars to the top or turn on a leveling feature that destroys the variable volume effects on a piece. Personally, I give the TX the winning performance in handling music.

Photos were well reproduced on screen by both systems, but the TX had an intuitively easier system for cataloging and showing photos. Both the Axim and the TX have nice screens that accurately reproduce color, and both PDA's offer more than enough resolution for the small screens. The Axim sync system for music and photos was buggy, but once music or photos were on the expansion card, they were fine for use. The irritating hard resets took about an hour to implement the system save, the actual removal and reloading of basic system files and programs, and the restoration of saved data from the PC. Any information on the Axim expansion card is not accessible during this reset process so the x51v isn't reliable enough for a professional who might need to put on a photo slide show for an important occasion. Because of the reliability issue, the TX is by far the better PDA for storing and presenting photos.

The Axim has a nice feature that is lacking in the TX. The x51v accepts recorded messages. Unfortunately, I found the recording system to be unworkable for calendar appointments where it would be most useful to me. The buggy program worked for a few days, and then it would arbitrarily refuse to stay in the calendar note system for a voice recording. As soon as I pressed the record button, the recorder jumped out of the calendar and went to the notebook so it put the messages in the wrong place. There is an option to prevent the notebook from being the only program to accept recorded messages, but that option would stop working after a day or so. The recording to the calendar feature could only be restored by a hard reset. In other words, the ability to use recorded messages in the Outlook calendar with the Axim x51v is no better than trying to record to the calendar on the TX that doesn't even have an audio recorder.

I never tried to sync the TX with an Outlook program.I thought that things would go smoother without introducing a Microsoft program to the Palm operating system since it was working just fine. I really do not need or want Outlook on my PDA. Everything that I do need (except the spell checker that costs extra) is already available on the TX. The Axim includes a good dictionary and spell checker and can suggest word completion after the entry of a few letters. I believe that Palm should charge a few dollars more if necessary and include a dictionary, Thesaurus, and grammer and spell checker. The Axim is far superior out of the box as a word processor.

I fooled around with the Palm Grafitti handwriting recognition system for a bit, and it actually could read my lousy handwriting that left the Axim clueless. I suspect that the better performance by the TX in character recognition may simply be a result of the fact that the TX stylus is larger in diameter and more comfortedly suited to handwriting. In any event, I still prefer to use the on-screen touch keyboard, and I prefer the Axim's. For one thing, it has a delete key. For another, the keyboard can optionally be resized to a larger format.

In conclusion, I personally believe that the Palm TX is a well designed tool that does what a PDA should do. The Axim x51v is an expensive toy that has too many system and/or program crashes to be suitable for serious PDA functions. Im going to keep the TX primarily because the audible alarm functions are reliable. Now I have to find a spell checker. Im also seriously thinking of purchasing the Delorean GPS system for the TX. The Axim x51v GPS system worked very nicely once one figured out how to set the Com port and find the 4 digit password identifier built into the Bluetooth transmitter, but in my personal opinion the Pharos mapping on the Axim is inferior to the Delorean mapping that I currently use with a laptop.

One last note. In checking the Internet fot TX accessories, I discovered that there are a lot of vendors selling replacement batteries for the TX. The batteries come with an instruction manual and the Torque tools necessary to open the case and remove the old battery. Still, I think the replaceable battery in the Axim is an excellent feature because it permits the use of backup batteries for extended field use. In the context of battery life, the TX seems to have a considerable advantage. Even though it has a smaller battery than the Axim x51v, the Palm TX can operate considerably longer before needing a charge. I left the TX continuously running a photo slide show using some relative large JPEG pictures (500 kb) and playing a large music list at the same time for about 3 hours. The battery level dropped to about 80% during this period. The battery went back to 100% within an hour when plugged into a USB port on a desktop computer.

Richard

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

At this point I'd buy an extended warranty in a heartbeat, but Palm's Asia Pacific division won't sell me one. Contrary to what Palm told me, the resellers here don't sell one either. So I'm pretty much just stuck in the loop with no recourse. This is the kind of thing that drives loyal customers away.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

Why don't you just end the misery and get a better PDA: a CLIE TH55.

TVoR

However, you should do a hard reset on your TX (see your manual). Then with it cleared, hotsync it with your computer. It will try to identify the handheld - when it asks tell it you are your old ID (should be a drop down menu, select old id). It should sync your old contacts and information to your new TX.

Or I think, if you want to use your new hotsync ID, you should be able to copy your contacts file over to your new device.

Just kidding. If I'm not mistaken, "cold reset" is the same thing as a "hard reset", meaning all your data is lost and the Palm is returned to its factory condition. I hope that is what you want to do. To do it you hold down the power switch while clicking the reset switch with your stylus. I believe you have to hold down the TX power switch for longer then my previous Palms or it won't work (like hold it down until the progress bar reaches the right side). You will then be asked if you really want to do the hard reset.


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Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/