PalmGear De-emphasizes Freeware (Updated)

Update: Kenny West has confirmed that PalmGear's new policy of de-emphasizing freeware has been reversed. Freeware is once again being listed on PalmGear's home page and on search results. The original article appears below only for discussion purposes.

According to Kenny West, CEO of PalmGear, the site will no longer display free software on the home page within either the New or Updated software listings. In addition, free software will be listed at the bottom of search results, below commercial software.

West said PalmGear was making this change to increase the expose of commercial software and decrease the expose of freeware. These changes will take effect today, August 3.

This was not a PalmGear decision but the result of a vote: PalmGear asked the developers for whom it acts as a reseller in June if they wanted free products to be removed from those pages or not, and the results show that among the 593 replies, 66% voted in favor of freeware "removal".

Of course, PalmGear isn't the only way to find Palm freeware. FreewarePalm is one option and so is PalmOpenSource.com. Handango lists both freeware and commercial software.

PalmGear has been struggling financially for some time and is behind on the payments it is due the developers who list software on its site. The money due from products sold in July has been paid to the developers, but West writes that "At this time we are unable to provide a schedule as the past AP [Accounts Payable] will be paid down from excess funds on a monthly basis".

West indicated that PalmGear is doing everything it can to reduce the costs, including reducing staff and making an agreement with Expansys to ship the products ordered on PalmGear. He hopes that by emphasizing commercial software and decreasing the expose freeware gets, revenues will increase and the site will be able to pay developers the money it owes them.

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whatever

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 10:06:13 AM #
whatever....

Hey Kenny West, what a stupid decision

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 10:03:20 AM #
I do think this is a stupid decision to both palmgear and the software buyer. I bought the softwares in palmgear before and thought palmgear is a good, reliable and responsible online seller. But now (and in the future) I would NOT buy any software from palmgear anymore.
I don't think palmgear can boost the sales of the shareware by avoid posting freeware on the web. But I am sure the visiting count of palmgear would drop dramtically. Palmgear will finally lost it's market value.
RE: Hey Kenny West, what a stupid decision
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 12:40:09 PM #
I would always go to PalmGear because it was easiest to find the best software there. If the best product for my need wasn't free, I paid for it. West and the developers are both behaving very short-sightedly if they think that this will help business because I believe it is really going to hurt traffic coming to the site in the first place.
RE: Hey Kenny West, what a stupid decision
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2002 4:15:05 AM #
This is unbelieveable. I had been using PalmGear exclusively until I heard developers weren't being paid. I registered Monopoly a couple of weeks ago on Handago for that reason. Now this? Kenny, do me a favor and stop acting like you're a Palm advocate. I'd want to keep freeware "hidden" too if my product isn't as good! As Roberto Duran said to Sugar Ray Leonard: "No Mas!"
RE: Hey Kenny West, what a stupid decision
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2002 5:35:52 AM #
Well that's it. No more purchases for me from Palmgear.
Reply from Kenny West; PalmGear.com
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2002 2:28:46 PM #
As none of the psots here inlcude the true and accurate info here is a reply I sent to soem who emailed me directly....

I think there is some misunderstanding as we DO allow BOTH Free and non free software at our site. The only difference that is being implemented is that free software is not going to be listed on the home page with New or Updated software. No software (free or otherwise) has been removed. Search results still show free software with the only difference being they are now listed at the end of the results pages. Additionally the Advanced Software Search which can be accessed via this link:

http://wwws.palmgear.com/software/asksoftware.cfm

or on the initial page of search results page after entering search criteria in the search criteria entry field at the upper left has the option that has always been there that allows locating Free software via the drop down choice list "Application or Document". Additionally I would like to point out that our only commercial competitor has not only not listed freeware for quite some time they do not list it whatsoever.

In any event we are open to suggestions and want to do what we can to make the site as useful as is possible while maximizing revenues for the software developers whose software is listed.


Regards,

Kenny West
PalmGear.com
http://www.palmgear.com
"The One Stop Source for your Palm Connected Organizer!"

RE: Hey Kenny West, what a stupid decision
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2002 6:33:02 PM #
I understand that the freeware is not being removed. But if you make it much harder to find, you make my experiences searching for palmware solutions all the more difficult. As a result, I will be less inclined to look for palmware on your site. Somewhere down this page there is an excellent analogy to the supermarket. If you take out all the low-profit items like bread, milk and eggs, people aren't going to come in and blow mooney on high-profit items in the deli. That is the shortsightedness I see here.
RE: Hey Kenny West, what a stupid decision
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2002 8:41:06 PM #
Count me out Kenny. Like others, when I first got my Palm, Palmgear was my "homepage" and the first stop for all my Palm news and software. Looking back I probably spent close to $250/= buying software from Palmgear throughout the years. Not anymore.

If Palmgear is on the edge of dying it sure didn't help by being stupid. You nailed the last nail into your own coffin, Kenny.

RE: Hey Kenny West, what a stupid decision
Strider_mt2k @ 8/5/2002 6:13:33 AM #
I agree with the original comment. I even e-mailed them a good comment for their service. I don't like hearing about developers getting the short end of either stick.
I fully recognize PG reversed the decision, but I don't think I'll be getting any more apps from them, freeware or no.


strider_mt2k@yahoo.com

Oy.

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 10:10:01 AM #
"by emphasizing commercial software and decreasing the expose freeware gets", he will destroy the usefulness of the site and drive away users.

Also, " This was not a PalmGear decision but the result of a vote: PalmGear asked the developers for whom it acts as a reseller in June if they wanted free products to be removed from those pages or not, and the results show that among the 593 replies, 66% voted in favor of freeware "removal". "

Rephrase with me: "Other developers are writing free software that does the same thing as your paid software. Should we hide it?" Of course they said yes.

PalmGear still doesn't have a "hires" indicator either.

Ridiculous
BUDD @ 8/3/2002 10:55:04 AM #
Listen, I have spent the hours it takes to write palm software. That I've done it all for free does not mean that someone should snub those that do charge. And if my busy life ever let me write another peice of code I would absolutely charge for it. What's the matter, you can't afford $7.00? Ridiculous. We are not talking MicroSoft price tags of $90 for their cheapest box of bloated software (or $400 for something like Office).

Let's remember, palm guys, that even Yahoo has started charging for services (again, you can't afford $29 for full-featured email with 50meg of storage?). The economy is bad and all tech sectors are taking it on the chin. In case you haven't noticed.

RE: Oy.
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 11:07:43 AM #
Budd,

I think you are missing the point. I used to go to Palmgear everyday, because it was the one place where I could go to find out information about every piece of software available for the Palm (free, or shareware). Occasionally, I would for to the freewarepalm or Handango sites just to see if Palmgear had missed anything. Now, I'll probably start going to Handango and/or Palmspot to see if they carry a complete list.

In the long run, this is going to drive people away, because the value of Palmgear was not specificly that they had freeware or shareware. The value was that they had everything easily accessiible. And now they don't.

What do you want to bet that when they see how much their site traffic goes down, they go back to the old method?

Michael

This is anticompetitive
Wollombi @ 8/3/2002 11:47:02 AM #
If someone writes a piece of code, but doesn't charge for it, should the produce really be prevented from competing with a retail product that may or may not do the job as effectively? I don't think so. If there is a good piece of shareware out there that does a better job than what is available for free (often the case), I am happy to pay for it. However, I'm not in the habit of throwing away money on an inferior piece of software if something that better suits my needs in available for free (also often the case). A good example of this is the freeware program Today vs. TealPoint's TealGlance. I'll take Today anytime over TealGlance, because it suits my needs and desires much better.

By doing this PalmGear is going to lose the already shaky credibility that thay have with customers, because they are unneccesarily limiting the options of their customers. Are they removing freeware? No, but they are making it much harder to find on their site. I for one am not impressed.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

Yes, "Removing"
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 5:07:31 PM #
Uh Wollombi, pardon the correction, but YES they ARE REMOVING it (for practical purposes):
People don't look through PalmGear alphabetically ... They look at the New & Updated sections--the very spot that PalmGear is refusing to display it.
RE: Ridiculous
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 6:50:13 PM #
I think this is Ridiculous. Just because the tech market is in a slump doesn't eman I am going to fork over my money to anyone. i think it was Steve Jobbs who sais the free ride is over? Well to heck with him and PalmGear. Freeware is there and Iw ill keep looking for it. Some of the developers who want to charge 7.00 bucks for a dumb application needs to wake up. Stop trying to hit the lottery with a crappy program and look what is being offered for free and be creative and come up with something better is my thought.

I have written programs in the past and have and will continue to give many of them away for free. Why, it's simple, it builds my reputation as a programmer. If it's good software , people will download it. Than if I am creative I will eventually release an updated and more powerful version for a fee. Stop complaining about the Tech market and do your share and write something better, or people will go with the free stuff.

Just cause you can hide it doesn't mean it isn't there and it wont be found.. gosh.. just look at the warez community.

RE: Oy.
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 7:25:04 PM #
The point made by Michael rings truest with me: you went there because they had everything easily accessible, and now they won't. I never went to PalmGear looking specifically for freeware; I ran across it when I was looking at new or updated Palm software. I'd never even been to freewarepalm.com until a few minutes ago - didn't even know it was there!! But now I've bookmarked it and will be taking time previously spent at PalmGear looking over freewarepalm... and Handango and any other site that has software for my Clie. Boneheads!

Database programmers?

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 10:18:30 AM #
It appears that the listings (especially the "last 7 days" type listings) are done by a query. Is there anyone out there who could create a link that queries their database and make it work the way it used to?
RE: Database programmers?
Boone @ 8/3/2002 10:31:54 AM #
Go to their last 25 software submissions and replace listType=new in the address bar with listType=free.

HTH...Boone

It's a shame

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 10:28:56 AM #
While I can understand the financial reasoning behind this (and it's just financial...I don't care what anyone says), it's such a shame that this has to happen.

PalmGear has long been my first stop looking for software. This announcement doesn't surprise me, however. Just this past Thursday (two days before this "announcement" and "change"), I tried searching for some freeware packages, yet the search engine didn't locate them.

I found them right away at another site, however.

All that's left to say at this point is "goodbye" to PalmGear, I suppose.

RE: It's a shame
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 12:45:37 PM #
So where is the best place to search for software now? I can't find anything on Handango and don't like them anyway.
RE: It's a shame
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 9:15:47 PM #
There's CNet or ZDNet... wait, CNet bought ZDNet...
RE: It's a shame
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2002 1:01:24 AM #
Yah, Handango is the Worst! Every day in the last 2 or 3 months they've let "Datebook on Clock" and "DataKeeper" be posted as updated. I want to know what's new, not what's being posted everyday for exposure. Handango is even encouraging it to get it to look like more developers are posting new and updated stuff to their site. People have complained, but Handango has removed their remarks. At least Gear had rules against such shinanigans.

Handango doesn't even post new or updated products in a timely manner. There are times when I know when a product was updated on Handango, and it took hours for it to show up as so. And by that time, the product wasn't even listed on the front page anymore.

Let's keep in mind that not all the develoers voted to have freeware removed. I think it was to their advantage to have a lot of people coming to the gear site in search of "Whatever", and not just commercial/shareware products.

RE: It's a shame
kezza @ 8/5/2002 1:07:27 PM #
A couple good sites for software that generally get overlooked are www.palmtracker.com and www.palmvenue.com. These both list freeware/shareware/commercial software, and have a decent selection. PalmVenue is especially nice because a lot of stuff that doesn't get posted anywhere else gets posted there, because they don't charge developers to submit software. Palmtracker generally has a lot of the same stuff as palmgear, only with a smaller selection. it's got the easiest interface for finding recently released/updated software, though.

--------------------------------------
"Well, if it isn't the leader of the wiener patrol, boning up on his nerd lessons"
http://stirwise.com

The last flailings of a desperate man

sandbuck @ 8/3/2002 10:27:00 AM #
Freeware authors become Shareware and Commercial authors. This a very efficient way to breed resentment among your base. (Though not as efficient as stealing people's money..)

Its been a great ride Mr. West, I'm going to miss you.



RE: The last flailings of a desperate man
BUDD @ 8/3/2002 11:01:18 AM #
You mean those that write the code you take for granted (the HOURS it takes to do that--write the code (I suspect it only takes the majority of those complaining in this thread seconds to take the work for granted)actually OWE it to you to write freeware? Well, now that we understand eachother...

RE: The last flailings of a desperate man
rldunn @ 8/3/2002 11:34:11 AM #
Budd, you're really missing the point on these posts today. I suggest you get some sleep, then come back and reread them. This post in no way implied that developers owe it to the users to write freeware. The point of the post is the developers often start out writing freeware, then move on to develop shareware products, and if Palmgear pisses these people off now when they're just starting, then they may not consider Palmgear later when they actually have a commercial product for sale.

RE: The last flailings of a desperate man
Wollombi @ 8/3/2002 11:54:30 AM #
>"You mean those that write the code you take for granted (the HOURS it takes to do that--write the code (I suspect it only takes the majority of those complaining in this thread seconds to take the work for granted)actually OWE it to you to write freeware? Well, now that we understand eachother..."<

Not only are you missing the point, which is that PalmGear is attempting to change market factors out of it's control, but this post makes absolutely no sense in the context of the post you are supposedly rebutting. I suggest you stop blindly criticizing and take a look at the reality.

It is indeed true that freeware authors often become shareware authors. By discriminating against those who write today's free applications, PalmGear (who also doesn't seem to pay their developers), is chasing away future clientelle.

Additionally, if a retail product can't compete with a free equivalent, that doesn't mean PalmGear should try to shove the inferior product in your face. Nobody is saying that we are owed free products, and nobody is saying these authors shouldn't be paid. Quite the contrary, we are saying they had better make a competitive (i.e. better that what's available for free) product if they desire to make money. That's capitalism, my friend, and nobody owes these developers anything, so please stop acting like we do.

Any questions?

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: The last flailings of a desperate man
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 1:30:26 PM #
" You mean those that write the code you take for granted (the HOURS it takes to do that--write the code (I suspect it only takes the majority of those complaining in this thread seconds to take the work for granted)actually OWE it to you to write freeware? Well, now that we understand eachother..."

I hope BUDD does not code the same way he writes. ;)

RE: The last flailings of a desperate man
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/5/2002 5:40:59 AM #
yeah, he'd get several syntax errors at compile time and spend his HOURS searching for them.. lol
RE: The last flailings of a desperate man
Wollombi @ 8/7/2002 12:59:23 AM #
Well, I see his isn't bothering to replys to these posting. Maybe he's getting a spellchecker installed....

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

The beginning of the end for PalmGear

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 10:56:11 AM #
Guys, what do you think draws PDA users to PalmGear, anyway? It's a supermarket. Sometimes you go to get eggs and milk and sometimes you go to buy magazines and toothbrushes.

Do you really think that supermarkets make a profit on a $1.50 dozen eggs that need to be refrigerated and are perishable? Of course not. People go to get eggs and end up buying other stuff that is high margin.

I have developed a ton of freeware that has been distributed via PalmGear and have no apologies. Software like mine built the name and web traffic that PalmGear is trying so hard to exploit right now.

So, they are going to de-emphasize freeware. You know, sites that feature commercialware are a dime a dozen. They are all over the place. The difference was that people went to PalmGear to find something interesting and most of that is freeware. Now, all they will find is whatever is for sale. Why bother.

PalmGear is over
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 11:29:32 AM #
This is straw that breaks the camel's back.

The whole attraction of PalmGear was that everything was centralized in one place and you could easily keep up to date on the Palm software market.

This is the beginning of the end and it's time for developers to start their own grassroots distribution site. Palm old-timers remember the dozens of Palm software sites over the years that have come and gone and once upon a time, PalmGear was a newcomer too. The community will survive its passing, and it may well be time for a class-action law suit to recoup unpaid developer fees and hasten the end of PalmGear.

RE: The beginning of the end for PalmGear
rldunn @ 8/3/2002 11:37:31 AM #
This was a well-put post, but I'm not sure this is the beginning of the end. I think the beginning was the new policy from a couple of months ago that they would pay off current debts first and old debts when they got extra cash. I had hoped that we the users wouldn't see much impact of that, but there have been a lot fewer software titles posted since then; it seems like it's about half of what is was before or even less. And some big titles like DateBk5 have switched their primary selling site to be Handango.

This is really sad as I love the Palmgear interface and can't stand using Handango. It takes so much longer to find new and updated software at Handango. But if they're the only ones getting new software listings, then we may not have a choice. I hope Palmgear can hang on, but this is another step in the wrong direction.

RE: The beginning of the end for PalmGear
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2002 10:48:10 PM #
A whole paragraph and you still said nothing. What about all the people that West owes money to.

That's why we have WAREZ!

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 11:10:31 AM #
Screw Palm, screw the developers. Price it right or we'll crack it and give it away :)
RE: That's why we have WAREZ!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 11:15:19 AM #
I think the majority here would prefer not getting software at all than steal it if they felt the price was to high.
RE: That's why we have WAREZ!
stormrider @ 8/3/2002 11:36:27 AM #
I would not be getting warez, except in cases where i feel the developer has been "robbing in broad daylight". Just like handmark's games.. hehe :)

I pay for quality software like Wordsmith.

RE: That's why we have WAREZ!
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/3/2002 12:01:53 PM #
Let me get this straight - if you think something is overpriced you'll just steal it (or modify it and give it away to someone else for free)? It's thieves like you that increase the cost and complexity of software.

Just because you can crack a program doesn't mean that you should. There's something called ethics.

You don't like the cost of software? Don't buy it! Or, create something on your own to compete with the existing product at a lower cost. Cracking someone else's software and redistributing it - whether or not it's overpriced - is in direct violation of virtually all software licenses, and you deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

RE: That's why we have WAREZ!
TDS Computer @ 8/3/2002 1:41:19 PM #
//BEGIN SARCASM

Gosh, Mr. I.M.,
I need a new car, but they are a little expensive. Could you please steal one for me? And my wife wants a new diamond ring. Could you knock off a jewelry store for me?
Oh, it's different if you have to get up from your computer to commit a crime, eh?

//END SARCASM

Visit us at www.tdscomputer.com

RE: That's why we have WAREZ!
UZI4U182 @ 8/3/2002 3:01:18 PM #
I agree with StormRider

--Devan--
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