CNet Asia Interviews Ed Colligan

CNet Asia has published an interview with palmOne President Ed Colligan while on a recent business trip to Singapore. He talks about the recent alternative OS rumors, handheld and smartphone competition as well as palmOne's China situation.

The full CNet interview is posted here. While he doesn't speak on future products, he does comment on a number of recent rumors and competition in the handheld market.

Excerpts:

How do you decide what features and form you use in your smart phones?
I think these products are by far the hardest to design of anything I've ever been a part of. When you do mobile products, there are a series of tradeoffs between all the different features, form factors, battery life, complexity, screen real estate. You need to tradeoff a lot of them to make great winning products that people really love to use and want to carry with them anywhere. You see a lot of products that come to market with just a little something wrong with them. It doesn't take a lot to make it not successful.

Some people suggest that Palm is lagging on the technology curve. Do you accept that?
I probably would have accepted that a year ago. I think the category defining products in this space are at PalmOne. You read any review of any smart phone and the Treo 650 wins. So I don't accept that premise.

I think the Tungsten T5 is very creative and trying to change the way handheld computers are viewed, too. Most of them are glorified organizers. That's fine. We're trying to do something different here where we create a very high capacity device that will allow people to carry their most important digital information with them. I think that will be a new trend in handhelds, and we're starting that trend in motion.

What is this we hear about PalmOne looking at other operating systems?
We recently split from PalmSource. As part of that, one of the premises was that we could develop on other operating systems, and they could license to a broader set of people. So every time we ever do a new design, we don't really look at the technology first. We try to look at what the user's going to want, and if there are opportunities in the market.

So we consistently look at other operating systems. That doesn't mean we're going to ship products on them. So we've had a very long history with the Palm OS. It's served us extremely well in the marketplace. There are tens of thousands of developers, and lots of applications on it, and we think it's great. We're going to stick with that for now, and if we decide to move to other operating systems, I'm sure we'll communicate that to you at the time.

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Shameful!

Gekko @ 11/12/2004 6:48:00 PM #

This guy has no shame!

"I think the Tungsten T5 is very creative and trying to change the way handheld computers are viewed, too. Most of them are glorified organizers. That's fine. We're trying to do something different here where we create a very high capacity device that will allow people to carry their most important digital information with them. I think that will be a new trend in handhelds, and we're starting that trend in motion."



RE: Shameful!
ptc @ 11/12/2004 7:27:41 PM #
Colligan seems a bit out of touch, no?

He probably doesn't even know the difference between the specs of the T3 and the T5... Sounds to me like he's only seen powerpoint presentations about his company's products and has never really used them on a daily basis...

RE: Shameful!
Gekko @ 11/12/2004 7:31:25 PM #

Glorified Organizer + USB Flash Drive = T5



RE: Shameful!
kevinbgood @ 11/12/2004 9:08:06 PM #
This is the type of political jargon I was talking about in another thread. Here is a guy who probably doesn't even use a Palm and acts as if he knows what is going on. Not to mention the load of noncommittal statements he made. This is the classic example of saying a bunch of things that mean nothing or completely the opposite. No admission. My money is on Palm launching a Windows Ce device in six months.


Addicted to Palm

RE: Shameful!
Admin @ 11/12/2004 9:55:20 PM #
Ed Colligan is definitely a palm os handheld user! I'm sure he is using the treo 650 now. He is the president of palmOne and was a member of the core team that invented the original palm pilot.
RE: Shameful!
svrontis @ 11/12/2004 9:56:41 PM #
Glorified Organizer + WiFi (but without USB Flash Drive) = Dell X50
RE: Shameful!
Ezra4no1 @ 11/13/2004 12:38:58 AM #
You know....
You can use a PDA and never really use it. So to say that Ed Colligan uses a PDA and that he helped designed the Treo says nothing to his ability of actually using the PDA. I'm sure Ed Colligan uses a Treo.. but I wonder if he uses it mostly as a phone and a simple To Do list like others who've only ever purchased the Zire 21?

Power users which I believe most of us are, since we go out of away to make the PDA a part of our life and come to websites and forums to talk about them uses PDA in a bit different way. If Ed Colligan really was a power user I believe there would a several things different about what Palm does release and in the directions they are heading in. True the have good sales with the simple models (the zire 21), but they could also have excellent sales on higher end models that target what many of the power users are looking for.

RE: Shameful!
AyDb @ 11/13/2004 4:15:09 AM #
"we create a very high capacity device that will allow people to carry their most important digital information with them. I think that will be a new trend in handhelds, and we're starting that trend in motion."

Gee, thanks for inventing flash memory Ed. I didn't realize that I wasn't already carrying around my most important digital information on my 128 MB of internal memory plus 512 MB worth of memory cards.

RE: Shameful!
Strider_mt2k @ 11/13/2004 5:22:46 AM #
I agree.
This guy is out of touch.

RE: Shameful!
dustbunny44 @ 11/13/2004 6:48:20 AM #
This guy has more history and background and knowledge of Palm and PDA devices than all of us here together. We can learn more by listening to what he has to say, if you agree or not, than by flaming him.

I'm sorry - it appears that these comment sections have devolved into really mindless whining and little useful insight. I'm tempted to ask "Who sent you?", but only from my experiences of a history of directed propaganda, not from immediate evidence.

Flame on.

RE: Shameful!
Gekko @ 11/13/2004 7:55:24 AM #

History and background and knowledge don't mean anything.

Tell me where the original inventor of the spreadsheet, word processor, internet browser, etc. are and how relevant they are today?

Colligan was in the right place at the right time back in 1995. It's better to be lucky than good.



RE: Shameful!
hkklife @ 11/13/2004 10:47:28 AM #
All of that functionality could be achieved by bundling the proper software or patching OS 5.2.x and tossing a freebie SD card into the box of a T3. I forsee the "big ram" p**sing match beginning now in handheld devices much the same way the mhz war was waged in the PC market for years and years. These execs think consumers will automatically buy whatever touts the largest amount of storage space/memory, regardless of its configuration.



RE: Shameful!
Gekko @ 11/13/2004 11:14:40 AM #

A built-in SD Card alone is a poor excuse for creativity and innovation.



RE: Shameful!
reverend_bel @ 11/13/2004 12:53:08 PM #
Alright, if this board has turned to just pointless bickering, lets have try and make some almost meaningful debate.

Let's say Mr Colligan here asked you:

What do you think should be in the next PalmOne lineup so that we actually give our customers what they want and maybe we make enough to feed the kiddies too?

All too often I hear people bitching about features (in anything, doesn't have to be PDAs) and completely ignoreing the fact that no company could afford to make that hardware and still stay in buisness (cough.. xbox.. cough) but anyway, here's my vote.

You can only upgrade current units, no creating new fleets of PDAs

-First up is the Zire 90

hardware inside is roughly the same as the 72

312 Mhz or so CPU, BT, maybe give it more ram if it's cheap at the moment.

now what's different is that it's got a 320 x 480 display and a decent 2MP camera.

this screen would be perfect for both taking and viewing pictures.

say this was the spring refesh, I'd say $300 - $350 retail would be fair.

-Second up is the Tungsten Cx

it's got a 400 - 600 mhz cpu behind it's 320 x 480 display along with WiFi and BT and 64 - 128 megs of ram. there's a cover that folds down (and can fold around to hide) that reveals a backlit keyboard.

depending on the guts, this could go for anywhere between $400 and $600, but this a

-last but not least is the the Tungsten T 5.5

exact same specs as the T5, but it's got WiFi and a voice recorder added.

$400 retail seems quite reasonable

The zire 31 seems to be a very good evolution and that line is on the right track, plus it turns out the Tungsten E2 is already out.

If those 3 models were on the market, I would defintly save up for a T-Cx, but I could also definatly recomond the other 2 units to people looking for other things in their PDAs.

so I pose to you guys:

What do you think should be in the next PalmOne lineup so that PalmOne actually give our customers what they want and maybe they make enough to feed their kiddies too?


RE: Shameful!
AyDb @ 11/13/2004 3:05:52 PM #
"What do you think should be in the next PalmOne lineup so that we actually give our customers what they want and maybe we make enough to feed the kiddies too?"

One: something midrange to compete with the X30s. T5ish styling with a few tweaks--microphone, power LED, vibrator, and power button. Loose the extra flash ROM and give it 64 MB RAM, Bluetooth, and WiFi. Everything else stays the same. MSRP $299.

Two: high end. 624 MHz processor, 64-128 MB RAM, Bluetooth, WiFi, dual card slots, and a removable battery. $399.

Three: The Treo 700. T650 design, plus WiFi, 64 MB RAM, and EvDO for the CDMA version. $650 without contract.

Somebody will doubtless say that those prices aren't reasonable. They are, because PocketPCs are doing those same things at the same prices. This is what PalmOne has to do to compete.

Presenting Palm's 2005 lineup
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/13/2004 3:06:08 PM #
so I pose to you guys:

What do you think should be in the next PalmOne lineup so that PalmOne actually give our [sic?] customers what they want and maybe they make enough to feed their kiddies too?

- First of all, if Palm had not paid out to its top 10 executives the $15 MILLION or so in bonuses they've already pocketed in the past year, maybe the kiddies wouldn't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from.

- Second, if you want a realistic, evolutionary (read: cheap) progression, here's my suggestion:

1) Zire 22 - 16 MB RAM, different color case, $79
2) Zire 32 - upgraded screen, different color case, $129
3) Zire 73 - 64 MB RAM, 2 megapixel camera, non-peeling case, $249
4) Tungsten E - already released as Tungsten "5", $299
5) Tungsten 6 - T3 with 256 MB real RAM, dual expansion, improved battery, Wi-Fi + Bluetooth, $399. (An OLED screen would be nice, but Palm is too cheap to go this route.)
6) Tungsten C - 128 MB real RAM, 320 x 480 screen, fold-out keyboard (two sided version in the manner of the Sony Ericsson P910), Bluetooth + WiFi, proper telephony/microphone for VoIP, $399
7) Treo 650 - $499

Actually, they should dump 1, lower the price of 2 to $99, and cut the prices the other proposed models by $50 if they want to keep selling PDAs. Between Sony leaving, sales slumping and Cobalt being essentially DOA, things are starting to look pretty grim for the PalmOS platform. Right now, the Treo 650 is the only hope we have left to prevent Palm from being "Netscaped" in 2005. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Shameful!
TooMuch @ 11/13/2004 3:19:08 PM #
I have seen it served cold, fried, with bread, without bread and even shaped like gekkos...No matter how you serve it, bologna is bologna...and, Gekko you're full of it!

Yeah, let's believe that the #1 handheld company in the world (save me the prophesies of doom for the last 6 years) just happens to have a company president that doesn't personally leverage his product effectively! If I don't stop laughing, I'm going to throw up.

Look...If you want to criticize P1 products or lobby for improvements, so be it. But don't destroy your argument by serving up baloney.

(How 'bout a Hostess "Ding Dong" with that bologna for dessert?)

RE: Shameful!
vesther @ 11/13/2004 3:40:42 PM #
"What do you think should be in the next PalmOne lineup so that we actually give our customers what they want and maybe we make enough to feed the kiddies too?"

THE ZIRE LINE

First up is the Zire 32, with a miniature (but potent) 320x320 Screen Display, Multi-Connector, 32MB RAM, Single SD/MMC Slot. 3.5" Stereo Jack. Give it a Four-Button, 5-Way Navigator Layout ala Zire 72. Intel PXA270 Processor. Should supercede the Zire 31, $150.

Second would be the Zire 22. 32MB RAM, Intel PXA270 Processor, BW Display, Backlight, Multi-Connector, Single SD/MMC Slot, 3.5 Stereo Jack. Give Zire 22 the same button layout ala Zire 72. $100.

Zire 73. I would refine the 1.3MP Camera a bit so that the camera itself would work as well as some high-end 1.3MP Cameras in the past. Multi-Connector, same form factor as with the Zire 72, but I would like to see a rigid and very rugged housing for increased durability. Oh, and give it a camera lens cover to protect the camera as well. Dual-SD/MMC Expansion. Ability to choose between Bluetooth 2.0 Compliance, Wi-Fi 802.11g Certification, or both. Intel PXA270 Processor. 64MB RAM. Hi-Res Plus Display with Active Input. Vibrate Feature with Voice Recording and Charge Indicator that can tell whether or not the handheld is charged fully. $275 starting price, $350 high-end price.

Zire 81. I definitely want to see a high-end Zire for consumers who are true enthusiasts to the Palm Community. My requirements:

--Form Factor of the palm M515 Handheld, updated and refreshed for palmOne's presence.
--Eight-Button Layout with 9-Way Navigator
--Hi-Res Plus Screen (480x640 Screen Optional)
--Standard Bluetooth 2.0 Compliance
--Standard Wi-Fi 802.11g Certification
--Intel PXA270 Processor at 416MHz
--128MB RAM
--48MB Flash ROM
--Super Rugged Design for Durability
--Vibration Feature
--Charge/Wireless Usage Indication Feature
--Voice Recording
--Dual SD/MMC Expansion
--Multi Connector
--Optional 2.0 Megapixel Camera
Standard Model: $299 Add $100 for the 2.0 Megapixel Camera, $75 for the 480x640 Screen.

Hopefully, all color Zires will deploy OLED Displays and 262K Colors instead. The Zire 22 MUST have a backlight.

I pledge to the Palm-Powered community that I will seek to make a better handheld through research one day!!!

RE: Shameful!
vesther @ 11/13/2004 4:07:34 PM #
"What do you think should be in the next PalmOne lineup so that we actually give our customers what they want and maybe we make enough to feed the kiddies too?"

AS FOR THE TUNGSTEN LINE

First, the Tungsten E2. This will be the TRUE sequel to the Tungsten E, which will have the same form factor as with the Palm M130 from a long time ago, but refreshed to PalmOne's presence. This will be the successor to the Tungsten E with the following:

* Rugged, Durable Housing
* Eight-Button, 9-Way Navigator Layout
* 320x480 Hi-Res Plus OLED Display with 262K Colors
* 64MB RAM
* 32MB Flash ROM
* Multiconnector
* 312MHz Intel PXA270
* Palm OS Cobalt
* Single SD/MMC Slot
* Charge Indicator and Vibrate on Alarm, with Charge Indicator showing whether or not the handheld is fully charged.
* Bluetooth 2.0 Compliance and Wi-Fi 802.11g should be a built-to-order option.
$175 for the base model, add $45 for Bluetooth 2.0 compliance, $50 for Wi-Fi 802.11g Certification. Add $100 for 480x640 OLED Display. Add $100 for a built-in Internal 256MB Internal Drive.

TUNGSTEN T7. I think 6 is also an unlucky number in Asian Nations, so I'm gonna assume the Tungsten T7. I'm hoping of these following features:
* Rugged, Durable Housing based on the Tungsten T5
* Eight-Button, 9-Way Navigator Layout
* Removable Battery
* Voice Recorder, Vibrate on Alarm, and Charge Indicator indicating handheld is fully charged.
* Multi Connector with Dual SD/MMC Expansion
* 128MB RAM
* 48MB Flash ROM
* Intel PXA270 Processor at 416MHz
* 320x480 OLED Display with 262K Color
* Standard Bluetooth 2.0 Compliance
* Standard Wi-Fi 802.11g Certification
* Optional Internal 256MB Jump Drive Function--Add $100
* Palm OS Cobalt Standard
* 480x640 OLED Display with 262K Color Upgrade for only $50
Base Price: $400

Tungsten C2
* Multi Connector with Dual SD/MMC Expansion
* 256MB Non-Volatile RAM
* 64MB Flash ROM
* Palm OS Cobalt Standard
* Standard Bluetooth 2.0 Compliance
* Standard Wi-Fi 802.11g Certification
* Intel PXA270 at 624 MHz
* Standard 480x640 OLED Display with 262K Color and Active Input
* Based on the Palm i705 Form Factor but updated for palmOne's presence.
* Removable Battery
* Voice Recording, Charge Indicators, and Stereo Jack plus Vibrate on Alarm
* Eight-Button, 9-Way Navigator Layout
* Rugged Housing
Likely a $499 USD Handheld, Add a 256MB Internal Jump Drive for $75 more.

I pledge to the Palm-Powered community that I will seek to make a better handheld through research one day!!!

RE: Shameful!
twalk @ 11/13/2004 5:16:42 PM #
"What do you think should be in the next PalmOne lineup so that we actually give our customers what they want and maybe we make enough to feed the kiddies too?"

About everyone responding to this is merely making incremental improvements. I seriously doubt that is going to do it. Some more market targeting is needed here, while keeping in mind the limited resources P1 has.

Tungsten (businees/high-end):

Stop production of all current ones (E/T3/T5/C), let the channel run out. Only make one replacement, a T7 that's the same as the T5, but has PalmOS6, wifi, and a voice recorder, get rid of IR. Create a rfid sd card for it. $400. Basically gets even with PPCs.

Zire (consumer/mid-range):

Stop production of the current ones (21/31/72), let the channel run out. The low end is completely saturated, so only make one mid-range device. Start with a 72 base, get rid of IR and BT, make the camera 3MP w/ flash, 320x320 screen, get rid of the graffiti area, increase the battery size, add wifi, 64M ram, include movie conversion software. To make up for no graffiti area, add 2 buttons, one for menu/launcher selection, the other for a popup graffiti/KB area. $300. Now you've got a good camera + mp3 player + pda + portable movie player + etc, instead of the halfway device the 72 is.

Zire (low-end):

This area is saturated, stop production of everything here.

treo:

The low-end is vital here. Make a treo 500 within the fairly standard flip cell phone case that has a 176x192 screen (160x160 for standard palm program resolution. Make the screen a touch screen, throw out the graffiti area, use the extra space at the bottom for a button row (like a T3), 16M ram, sell for $200 without a contract, move down to $150 w/o contract in 6mo.

school:

A new line here, targeting schools. These pdas will include a good selection of educational software, WP, SS, calculator, and wireless printing software. They have no IR or BT, but have wifi. Only 2 buttons (menu/launcher & graffiti/KB popup) and an up/down toggle, no graffiti area. Use one full size usb port for syncing/charging/external KB connection/flash drives (no sd slot). Larger than typical batteries. Basically super cheap wifi handhelds. $100 for 160x160 monochrome, $150 for 160x160 color, $200 for 320x320 color. Folding usb KB for $50. Sell by commission from school book publisher sales agents.



Palm 2005: Just 2 PDA + 2 smartphones? No, that 's too smart
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/13/2004 6:35:34 PM #
The most important thing Palm could do to boost the PalmOS platform is release a basic (32 MB RAM, Bluetooth, no SD card, no keyboard, normal sized) cellphone for less than $200. This could kickstart the platform by bringing in hundreds of thousands of casual users that are mainly looking for a phone but would also like some basic PIM features.

As I've posted elsewhere, cutting the lineup down to just 2 PDAs and 2 smartphones would make a lot of sense, but Palm's leadership would never do anything that bold. They look at cutting down on the number of models as showing the platform is on its deathbed. In reality, concentrating Palm's dwindling resources on less models would prolong the company's existence, but those extra years would probably be spent of life support.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Shameful!
Foo Fighter @ 11/13/2004 6:58:36 PM #
>> "The most important thing Palm could do to boost the PalmOS platform is release a basic (32 MB RAM, Bluetooth, no SD card, no keyboard, normal sized) cellphone for less than $200."

Agreed. I posted an article about this on my site:

http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2004/08/palmsource_miss.php

PalmSource needs to develop an OS that allows licensees to compete against mainstream Smartphones from Nokia and Sony-Ericsson, which is where the real meat and potato sales are. High-end PDA/Phone hybrids ($400+)are great, but the vast majority of mobile phone users will never own such products. It's time for PalmOS to grow up and end the strict PDA-centric focus. Even Microsoft knows it can't just rely on Pocket PC phone hybrids to grow share. Too bad MS Smartphones are way too expensive for the average user because they have the right formula.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

Palm: Please put PalmOS on a BASIC smartphone ASAP
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/13/2004 8:29:10 PM #
Agreed. I posted an article about this on my site:

http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2004/08/palmsource_miss.php

PalmSource needs to develop an OS that allows licensees to compete against mainstream Smartphones from Nokia and Sony-Ericsson, which is where the real meat and potato sales are. High-end PDA/Phone hybrids ($400+)are great, but the vast majority of mobile phone users will never own such products. It's time for PalmOS to grow up and end the strict PDA-centric focus. Even Microsoft knows it can't just rely on Pocket PC phone hybrids to grow share. Too bad MS Smartphones are way too expensive for the average user because they have the right formula.

That's an excellent article, Kent. Someone should send a copy of it to the people at PalmSource and PalmOne that make the decisions on where the platform is headed. Palm needs to wake up: just like the market for pure PDAs was limited, Treo 600/650 style smartphones will NEVER achieve high market penetration. They are simply too big, too expensive and too complex. On the other hand, the potential market for a normal sized phone that does Palm's superb PIM and can also run a few other PalmOS apps is almost unlimited. Palm should be concentrating on saturating the market with their OS by pumping out 4 ounce BASIC smartphones the size and shape of the Sony Ericsson T630, so that EVERYONE becomes aware of what PalmOS can do. Most of the work needed to turn PalmOS into a workable smartphone OS has already been done. The Treo 600 5 way navigator would solve most problems that not having a touchscreen presents. (If you've ever owned a Treo 600 you'll know how slick the 5 way navigator setup is. Being able to access essentially all menus and functions of the phone with a single finger is the most amazing bit of User Interface design I've ever seen in any electronic equipment I've used.) Palm could also add T9 for text entry - I still have my PalmOS version of T9 from 1999 or 2000 and it worked pretty well on ancient hardware.

Palm's failure to push PalmOS to its full potential is difficult to understand. It became obvious over two years ago that traditional PDAs weren't going to take off, so it's not like they didn't have any warning. The fact that Palm still hasn't released a PalmOS-powered regular cellphone or micro laptop suggests Palm lacks the leadership necessary to survive in a changing environment. Palm's inability to experiment and evolve has resulted in a stagnant Palm Economy.

PalmOS may end up like that bright kid you remember from high school that fell in with the wrong crowd, dropped out of school and in the end never amounted to anything. What a waste.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Shameful!
AyDb @ 11/13/2004 10:37:02 PM #
"MS Smartphones ... have the right formula."

/me slowly backs away from the space alien

RE: Shameful!
Gekko @ 11/14/2004 8:45:58 AM #

PalmOne wants to sell HIGH MARGIN EXPENSIVE TREOS.

PalmSource wants to sell lots of PalmOS licenses.

There is some conflict because HIGH MARGIN EXPENSIVE typically means smaller sales volume. HIGH MARGIN device sales helps the hardware-maker and hurts the OS-maker. The OS-Maker wants to get his OS out there in the masses to become the standard. PalmSource is at the mercy of PalmOne's desire/ability to pump out cheap phones.

And don't get me started on Copland/Cobalt.



RE: Shameful!
Rome @ 11/14/2004 12:16:56 PM #
I will put in my 2 cents on what P1 will release/drop after the New Year, not necessarily what I want to see:

Zire 21 - this will go the way of black and white TV
Zire 31 - Will replace 21 as the entry level model with a lower retail price.
Zire 72 - Will be updated with new case and color choices. Perhaps some slight modification on hardware spec as well...more ram, faster processor etc.
Zire 81 - New Cobalt OS-based model with never-seen-before multimedia capabilities. Will probably see the same Flash memory technology currently available on the T5. Wifi and BT 2.0 standard.

Tungsten E - Probably incremental upgrade of ram amount, newer OS and faster processor. Or perhaps just lower prices.
Tungsten T5 - Unchanged
Tungsten C2 - Cobalt OS-based PDA with built-in keyboard, wifi, BT 2.0, and VOIP capabilities. Perhaps the same T5 flash memory setup.

Treo 400 - Entry-level smarpthone for less than $299 before carrier rebate. Could be $100 or less after rebate.
Treo 650 - Unchanged
Treo 700 - Cobalt-based smartphone with wifi and BT 2.0. New 3G radio like EVDO and UMTS. May be a different design all together.

RE: Shameful!
Calroth @ 11/14/2004 5:10:46 PM #
I think the biggest mistake of most of the people here is thinking that they can dictate the price.

Sure, it might be nice to have a price point as a "wish list", but that's not how business works. Business works by setting a price that may be too high or too low, and you either take it or leave it - no negotiations. You can't say stuff like "the Treo should be $100 less" when historically, the Treo 600 has sold as fast as they could make them, even without that discount.

RE: Shameful!
svrontis @ 11/14/2004 5:48:12 PM #
> Tungsten E - Probably incremental upgrade of ram amount, newer OS and faster processor. Or perhaps just lower prices.

Interesting thoughts. However, I would prefer any new TE model to be thinner and lighter, without any changes to the specs.

RE: Shameful!
AyDb @ 11/15/2004 6:15:41 PM #
They won't build the Zire 81, TC2, and T700 like you describe. That would be too advanced, and too much like competing in the industry.

Can not see Mobile Windows

burtba @ 11/12/2004 8:28:18 PM #
I most certainly cannot see PalmOne using Mobile Windows. Lets face it they cant even give the community what they want with an operating system they have years of experience with. AND besides that (ED) its not the OS were moaning about its your distinct lack of technology in your PDA's.

Can you imagine PalmOne trying to compete with any single Mobile Windows PDA developer out there?? I dont f... think so. They all have PDA's with far superior technology with much more competetive prices.

I see PalmOne closed an office in china and pulled out of the chinese market. I see the end of PalmOne coming, at least for PDA's. They may try in vain with their smart phone, but unless they give the market what they want, as they have not done with PDA's, they will slowly loose more and more market share as they have consistently done over the last two years.

It's a shame for PalmOne that a lot of Palm OS developers now days offer the same application in Mobile Windows and a lot of them will let you swap over for free. This does not leave much reason to stick with PalmOne for a PDA, especially based on their last T5 effort, and the fact that they would have had Palm OS 6 (cobalt) for 2 years before they release a product with it on. Seems like a severe lack of resourses to me!!!! What a shame.

RE: Can not see Mobile Windows
Strider_mt2k @ 11/13/2004 5:23:36 AM #
Sure they can do Windows.
And it'll be a cheaply made backward step too.

RE: Can not see Mobile Windows
AyDb @ 11/13/2004 3:39:04 PM #
Changing the OS won't help them if they can't pull their heads out of wherever they're stuck. A T5 is a lemon whether it's running Palm or Windows. Worse if it's running Windows, because then it's up against competitors that will dismember it in seconds. At least running Palm OS it has the loyalist base to tap into and the brand recognition.

RE: Can not see Mobile Windows
vesther @ 11/13/2004 4:37:54 PM #
If PalmOne even starts using Windows Mobile on their devices, sales of their handhelds are likely to be slumping down like nuts, and in addition, customers will be alienated as well. It's really important to use an OS with the customers in mind.

I pledge to the Palm-Powered community that I will seek to make a better handheld through research one day!!!

Treo 650 versus other smartphones?

AyDb @ 11/13/2004 4:09:12 AM #
"You read any review of any smart phone and the Treo 650 wins."

Pardon? Nobody's reviewed the 650 yet! Barely anybody's even touched it! Yet more BS. This guy's just spinning out the company line.

RE: Treo 650 versus other smartphones?
`Vampire Lestat` @ 11/13/2004 3:27:46 PM #
I like when Eg Colligan aknowledges that it does not take much to make a PDA unsuccessful. Examples, mono sound on the TC, SD munching T3s, peeling paint on the Zire72, etc. At least he knows it. HP on the other is totally oblivious to this and has little hope. HP and Dell are riding the "Trust us, we are with Microsoft wave". We are seeing a good example of the power of branding.

Anyways, having said all that, I am glad that Ed Colligan is at the helm. The T5, so far, does not have any known flaws that will make it unsuccessful. It is, in my humble opinion, the best handheld ever made. P1 can always add additional features to it down the road, but the core of the device is flawless; and that alone will make it a big seller.

Even though I understand P1 wants to keep all its options open, I would have a major problem with P1 diverting resources to a Windows Mobile PDA. But that is a topic for another time.

RE: Treo 650 versus other smartphones?
TooMuch @ 11/13/2004 3:40:34 PM #
"Pardon? Nobody's reviewed the 650 yet! Barely anybody's even touched it! Yet more BS. This guy's just spinning out the company line."

Man, you guys have got to stop this diahrea of Ed hatred if you want to win an argument. It has been reviewed on several sites with HIGH praise! And since the Treo 600 is the current "champion," why can't he say that the Treo 650 is the tops...knowing that it has the majority of what everyone has been asking for in a T600 successor? Just because you haven't been able to buy one yet doesn't mean that the man is "spinning." And if he is, what's that to "spinners" like us on this forum?

The return of Ska?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/13/2004 5:12:43 PM #
The T5, so far, does not have any known flaws that will make it unsuccessful. It is, in my humble opinion, the best handheld ever made. P1 can always add additional features to it down the road, but the core of the device is flawless; and that alone will make it a big seller.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

Ha Ha.

Ska? Is that you, girl?





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Treo 650 versus other smartphones?
AyDb @ 11/13/2004 6:53:01 PM #
Lestat: How long have you worked for PalmOne? All you post is fluff that sounds like it came out of the marketing department. I smell astroturf. PalmOne can't get any good press on the T5's merits, or lack thereof, so they're trying to push some.

As for HP and Dell riding some imaginary wave, their sales and marketshare have been rising continuously for years. If this is a 'wave' it had better crest soon, otherwise your employers will be drowned.

TM: No, the 650 has NOT been reviewed. Some sites posted a few paragraphs of information handed to them by PalmOne as part of the release. The only people who have had 'hands on' are a few corporate customers, TreoCentral, and maybe Walt Mossberg. If you consider a few paragraphs of basic specs a 'review' no wonder you don't see a problem with PalmOne's product line. And for the record, the market has gotten a lot more crowded since the 600 came out, and even the 650 is hardly the most impressive thing out there.

RE: Treo 650 versus other smartphones?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/13/2004 7:35:40 PM #
even the 650 is hardly the most impressive thing out there.

Really? Please name a few better smartphones (on any platform, including Symbian, Windows and PalmOS)

And Lestat doesn't work for Palm. If someone at Palm was astroturfing, they wouldn't be dumb enough to say things like "The T5... does not have any known flaws... the best handheld ever made... the core of the device is flawless..." Instead, they would make the type of posts that others here have reported someone named "Lance" has done on various Palm sites.

BloodSuckerBoy Lestat joined PalmInfocenter today and is probably none other than our old friend Ska, pulling some Psyops tricks. Reverse psychology, Baby. Gotta love it.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Treo 650 versus other smartphones?
TooMuch @ 11/13/2004 9:53:35 PM #
"TM...no wonder you don't see a problem with PalmOne's product line."

Problem. TM never said there wasn't a problem with PalmOne's product line for that wasn't the issue (rather it was the top quality of the Treo 650).

;) AyDb, you're making my point for me...You continue to overstate your case (in this case , just make up stuff I never said) and forfeit your argument.

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