Palm Speaks Out (again) on Delayed 700p Update
Palm's new corporate blog has posted a brief response in regards to some recent users' posts concerning the delayed 700p ROM update. In today's blog entry, Paul Loeffler posted a brief update saying that a post addressing the 700p maintenance release will be posted to the Palm blog next week.
This latest update runs slightly contrary what was revealed in yesterday's news item. On Tuesday the 10th, Palm's Steve Sinclair informed TreoCentral member Bob-C that information from Palm would be forthcoming "...later this week". You might recall Mr. Loeffler's name from last month's story concerning a revised release date and a vague reason for the 700p's issues.
PIC will continue to monitor this situation closely and post any pertinent updates concerning the 700p's long-delayed update.
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RE: based on results.. don't hold your breath...
Note to Ed and crew, customers matter.
JLM.
RE: based on results.. don't hold your breath...
Palm is priced and advertised as one of the Lexus's of cell phones. But where's the support? Where's the apologies for making us need to "wait until the next model" for mistakes that should have been obvious and fixed before release of the current one?
You can fool people a few times with promises never delivered, but eventually your formerly gung-ho customers will find another solution and never return. If you charge and advertise Lexus, then consistently deliver and support from the level of low-end Ford.... good luck getting repeat buyers much longer, Palm.
As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
#2 The 650 was never fully "finished", as its various incarnations (GSM w/ carriers, GSM unlocked, CDMA etc) were all EOL'd with various ROM versions.
#3. The E2's "find" bug was never fixed nor will it ever be
#4. The TX never received a single ROM update
#5. The Treo 680 still has its fair share of issues (lag, BT quirks etc).
I cannot speak with any firsthand experience on the WinMob units but I am sure they have their issues as well. It also is a major bummer that even though M$ is giving the WM6 upgrade out for free, Palm is choosing to only put it on the flagship Treo 750 and not the CDMA 700w/wx.
For the time being, while there is any remaining equity left in the "Palm" & "Treo" brands, Palm has EVEN less incentive to patch their smartphones. Why? Well, the carriers probably place their orders months or even a year ahead of time. The devices likely are not even in a shipping state when the carriers & Palm seal the deal. So Palm has no incentive to improve the experience for the end-user (other than superficial stuff like UI tweaks etc) because when you and I walk out of the store with a Treo, that device was actually "sold" by Palm to the carrier previously.
Nowhere in the analyst day presentation was anything mentioned about ramping up support efforts or making sure that shipping (not even legacy products but CURRENT models) are supported unless it's absolutely necessary.
P.S. I am still stunned that the 680 battery/camera patch came out as quickly as it did.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
For such a primitive, bare bones application like the Palm Desktop, this delay is inexcusable...and the fact that Palm has been cozied up so close to Microsoft with the 700w etc. over the past few years makes it even more staggering.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
Investigate new possibilities...
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
#2 The 650 was never fully "finished", as its various incarnations (GSM w/ carriers, GSM unlocked, CDMA etc) were all EOL'd with various ROM versions.
#3. The E2's "find" bug was never fixed nor will it ever be
#4. The TX never received a single ROM update
#5. The Treo 680 still has its fair share of issues (lag, BT quirks etc).
PDT - for such a primitive, bare bones application like the Palm Desktop, this delay is inexcusable"
Wow... That is a really large list of complaints. I have used all of these devices except Treo 680 and have never had any major problems. Maybe you need to RTFM or otherwise figure out a way to deal with life?
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
Spend some time looking around online, friend, and you'll see that all of the above claims are in fact very accurate and very valid. You have your preferences and I have mine.
#1. You can spin it any way you wish. The fact of the matter is that it's been 11 months since the 700p was launched and the ROM update is NOWHERE in sight.
#2. A quick glance at the Palm Treo 650 update page will list a myriad of different ROM versions on the various carrier-specific versions of the 650.
#3. Please Google or search PIC for a description of the "find" bug and borrow that E2 again and test it out.
#4. If you know where a TX ROM update is hidden on palm.com please tell me where to go so I can download it and post a full review of it.
#5. I haven't used or owned a 680 either so perhaps Tim can give us some more info on the minor bug annoying quirks on his 680.
PDT: Again, please point me in the direction of the fully Vista-compliant Palm Desktop build that lets me install programs etc.
P.S. Have you OWNED merely USED all of those above devices?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
* There's a definite lag in comparison to the snappy 650 - maybe about half a second longer to switch between apps, wake up the device etc. I assume this is a tradeoff from the much more generous amount of RAM (or possibly the improved radio performance), so I'm willing to let it go. It really only became apparent to me after I had to send the 680 back to Palm to get the headset jack fixed, and went back to my 650 for a few weeks. It's most noticeable when bringing up the "Agenda" view for the Calendar; there's a definite delay while it looks up all the upcoming events.
* Speaking of the headset jack, there are times when I'll plug something in, but the 680 will just ignore it and keep playing via the internal speakers, requiring me to unplug/plug again. Given the jack's proven flakiness, this makes me exceedingly nervous about it breaking again. Build quality on the whole is not as good as that of the 650 - but then, the 680 comes at a much more attractive price.
* The keyguard cuts in a second or two after the device is turned on. This, in turn, seems to occasionally lead to buttons being pressed before it activates, or alarms being silenced. Rare though.
* We all know the battery isn't anything to write home about...
* Oh, and the keyboard lights flicker occasionally, for seemingly random reasons.
None of these are deal-breaking issues for me - I think the 680 is easily the best Treo yet, by virtue of rock-solid stability, great price and the sleeker form factor. But there's still plenty of room for improvement and tweaking - especially in the area of headphone jacks!
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: AFATCONOTNTOO
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
#2. A quick glance at the Palm Treo 650 update page will list a myriad of different ROM versions on the various carrier-specific versions of the 650.
#3. Please Google or search PIC for a description of the "find" bug and borrow that E2 again and test it out.
#4. If you know where a TX ROM update is hidden on palm.com please tell me where to go so I can download it and post a full review of it.
#5. I haven't used or owned a 680 either so perhaps Tim can give us some more info on the minor bug annoying quirks on his 680.
PDT: Again, please point me in the direction of the fully Vista-compliant Palm Desktop build that lets me install programs etc.
P.S. Have you OWNED merely USED all of those above devices?
1- I own a 700p, and it works just fine. I do realize there are bugs, but get over yourself already.
2- Yes... and what of it? Struggling to see a point.
3- Agreed, its a bug.
4- I am not aware of a ROM update, not am I aware of a need for one.
5- I cant say, never had one.
PDT- . I did not say it was Vista/Office2007 compliant... You said "for such a primitive, bare bones application like the Palm Desktop, this delay is inexcusable" My comment to that is GET OVER YOURSELF. You are not a programmer, and dont know what it might take, perhaps, just maybe, there are issues you arent aware of that cause delays. If you dont like it, buy something else.
I own a 700p and a TX, I used to have a 650, and have used an E2 (not owned by me)... I dont work for Palm, not do I give a crap about the company itself. I just get tired of every post here filled with haters like yourself that come back day after day to do nothing but bitch about anything and everything Palm does. Get over it and/or move on and buy something else. With all the negative things you claim about Palm, its business model,and its products why do you buy them? Why do you continue to bitch about something that will never change? I can see it 6 months from now, you will be here bitching about some minor bug in the Treo 755p. Get over it. HTC, Motorola, RIM, and Samsung all have great smartphones. Go try one and see how well you fare FFS.
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
Why do you continue to bitch about something that will never change?
- In the forlorn hope that something will change for the better.
- In the hope that the company which once produced inspired designs like the original Pilot, the III and the V can once more produce something special and not simply be treading water in the crowded sea of devices.
- In the hope that maybe, just maybe, Palm will snatch success from the jaws of failure.
Palm should thank itself that there are still some people who still care enough to complain. The worst thing that can happen to anyone is not to be complained about or to be hated, the worst thing is simply to be ignored...
Does anyone hear remember - without having to look it up - when Digital Research, Atari, Commodore, or Sega's games consoles disappeared?
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
Oh yes. What a dark day that was. January 31st, 2001: Sega announce they'll be discontinuing the Dreamcast.
I still weep occasionally...
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
The only way Sega could have salvaged anything at all out of that was to have released the Sega CD & 32x (like the mythical Neptune but with CD functionality thrown in) in a single unit featuring rock-solid Genesis compatibility and with a very, very attractive pricetag (say, $200-$250ish).
Now, I personally bought a Jaguar instead of a 32x or Sega CD but that's another story entirely...
Oh, and Tim: Jan 31st 2001 will not be nearly as sad as the day that Palm EOLs their final classic handheld model...
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
And then the Saturn was so insanely difficult to code for, a lot of third-party devs gave up on them too and jumped ship to the Playstation... There was always a big question mark hanging over the Dreamcast and whether or not it could save Sega's bacon. It couldn't - PS2 fever and a comparitively puny marketing budget saw to that - but damn, it was a great send-off.
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: As fast as they crank out new ones they neglect the old ones
the list is so long, it's ridiculous!
700P - MAC OS CUSTOMERS
----------------------
Finally Palm Glasnost:)!
Now, I wonder if Palm will let this Post through it's censorship... Hey, no fowl language here, just NOTHING BUT THE FACTS...
-------------------------------
Here is my Setup:
Treo 700p, Palm Desktop 4.2.2, Mac OS 10.4.9 (all latest updates), Powerbook 17, Verizon, Dial Up Networking "Tethering" via Bluetooth...
-------------------------------
When I bought 700P in July 2006, Dial Up Networking "Tethering" [DUN] via Bluetooth was one of the biggest selling points for me, in addition to email on the go. This was my 1st "Smart?" phone:)!
Almost immediately, I realized that those few times when I was able to Connect via BT/DUN on my laptop were the exceptions to the rule. Usually it would take multiple attempts, Modem Errors, redoing Pairing of my Treo to Powerbook in Bluetooth Preferences..., Restarting my laptop.
Countless dialogs with nice Palm Tech Support folks in Philippines offered a few workaround, like un-checking some settings in my Network Preferences. Another trick, using Network Utility to Ping Google, was a trick to maintain Connection, that is if I was lucky to Connect.
As Palm Tech Support folks kept promising 700p Update, I found myself caught in Finger Pointing Monkey In The Middle Loop From Hell -- Verizon would send me to Palm, Palm would apologize and question Verizon, and Verizon would send me to Palm... Palm Techs were honest enough to admit that they have had many calls like mine from Mac users, regarding DUN, and that I should wait for 700p Update. Meanwhile, I spent countless hours trying to figure it out, reading numerous posts on this on various Forums etc.
After I started using Camcorder and SD Card, I noticed HotSync Issues... Eventually, after a many Hard Resets and Restores via BackupBuddyVFS Professional 4, as well as from my Mac, those HS issues went away... I still don't know what that was all about. Maybe corrupt email, or too many attached videos in Mail Sent Items Folder?
iPhone announcement came. No 3rd party applications, but promising STABILITY and WiFi..
So, if you were me, on Mac, would you stay with Treo 700p or get an iPhone?
If Palm doesn't make 700P ROCK SOLID, including DUN Tethering, and maybe even Skype and WiFi, you tell me WHY should I not switch to iPhone?
To me, no UNIVERSAL Palm Desktop for Mac means that Palm basically is giving up on Mac Users.... Then, just ADMIT it, and we'll wish each other good luck, as Mac Users leave for iPhone, before, or immediately as their Contracts with carriers expire....
UNIVERSAL Palm Desktop, that supports Mac OS Services, Apple Script etc, and thus is no longer ISOLATED from the rest of Mac is the LEAST Palm can do to show Mac Users good faith!!!
Implicitly sending Mac Users toward Entourage, MissingSync, or Now Contact has been been part of the Finger Pointing Monkey In The Middle Loop From Hell, where one has to rely on Forums, User Groups, and Hear Say, in lieu of REAL TECH SUPPORT, ala Apple Care, Apple Stores, Genius Bars at Apple Stores.
Finally Palm Glasnost:)! -- GREAT IDEA!!!! Better yet, PLEASE BE HONEST and OPEN with Mac Users, or and at least ALL 700p users!!!
iPhone is a BLESSING to Smartphones Universe, because, if it is half as good as promised, it will hold EVERY phone maker's feet to the fire, and that includes Palm....
From being a HUGE Palm Fan (IIIx, T3, 700p), now since 7/2007, I came to almost hate my Treo, because of its FAILED PROMISE!!!
I don't want to get all caught up, on a rebound, in iPhone FRENZY either. I just want Mac OS X-like STABILITY, and not having to play a DETECTIVE on my 700p, ala the old days of Mac OS 8-9 - Extension Manager, Conflict Catcher....
I don't want anymore spontaneous Resets... This is my 2nd BRAND NEW 700p, not a refurbished -- thank you my friends at Version, but my fellow 700p user is on his 3rd or 4th 700p replacement (refurbished probably, as per Verizon Policy). Almost the same issues as mine --- all of a sudden the Speaker stopped working, and we both had to use Earpiece Output ONLY!!! My friends feel the same way as I do about 700p...
Verizon doesn't seem to care much about Mac customers.... They seem to push Windows Mobile mostly... And, at their retail stores it's REALLY PATHETIC!!! Maybe cause Treo's are perceived as the Phones for the RICH FOLKS as compared to cheaper phones out there)!? And VZ retail appears to be more CLASSY compared to Sprint and T-Mobile, from what I've seen...
So..., if you were me, on Mac, would you stay with Treo 700p or get iPhone?
What are you promising to Mac Customers like me in the future? And I mean as OFFICIAL STATEMENTS from the CEO of Palm vs. Comments on this Blog that is not exactly FRONT PAGE NEWS?!
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
---------------------
MORE SUGGESTIONS:
It would be nice if Palm Employees who post here were in Red Color, so that it would be easier to find their Posts here, unless you can think of a better way to Identify their posts?
Or maybe switch to Forum Format?
How about THE OFFICIAL PALM TREO PODCAST? Better yet, not just Audio, but Video Podcast? That way, it's more from THE HORSES MOUTH vs. RUMORS etc...
Also, maybe borrow from Apple, and start OVERVIEW of 3rd Party Applications, so it's no longer a ZOO out there, with crashes and incompatibilities..., where Palm Tech Support keeps repeating the old mantra:
We don't support 3rd Party Applications:)!
So, what good is so-called Palm Economy, and thousands of 3rd party developers, if, according to Palm Tech Support, they ALL are SUSPECTS when Palm device starts having problems!!!!
While at it, I think Palm owes all of us a ROCK SOLID BACK UP to SD Card Application... BackupBuddyVFS Professional and such are nice, but they are still 3rd party, and thus, according to Palm Tech Support, they ALL are SUSPECTS when Palm device starts having problems!!!!
Backing up to Internet, as you are proposing -- INSANE!!! I would NEVER EVER EVER trust my PERSONAL DATA outside of my Palm Device or SD Card or my own Desktop... You can swear all you want about PRIVACY etc..., but my PERSONAL data is mine ONLY, and I'll never entrust it to ANYONE, including .Mac:)!
Most of my Friends are Dumping their Treos for Razrs
Palm is shooting themselves in the foot by not providing system updates in order to make their products as stable as possible. Most of these friends plan to never go back to Palm again.
How many lost customers will it take before Palm comes out with the needed system updates???
RE: Most of my Friends are Dumping their Treos for Razrs
apple vs. oranges. the RAZR is no smartphone. it's not even a good phone.
you're either full of shiit or your friends are dumb.
RE: Most of my Friends are Dumping their Treos for Razrs
How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.
RE: Most of my Friends are Dumping their Treos for Razrs
Sounds like a bit of both, LOL!
RE: Most of my Friends are Dumping their Treos for Razrs
A Nokia Suit laughed at the Razr, "It does nothing," he smirked.
I should have said it out loud, but believe it or not in person I am mostly well-behaved, so I just thought it: "Yeah. Nothing except SELL!"
RE: Most of my Friends are Dumping their Treos for Razrs
For those of us who JUST need a phone to make & receive calls, the non-RAZR Motos are very, very good.
Don't get me wrong, while I'd take a Moto dumbphone over a Treo anyday (taking voice quality & signal strength into consideration), I'd take any Treo--even the buggy 700p---over the Q. I remain extraordinarily underwhelmed by all aspects of the Q other than its reasonable pricetag and thinness.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Most of my Friends are Dumping their Treos for Razrs
> Apple vs. oranges. The RAZR is no smartphone.
> It's not even a good phone.
> You're either full of ... or your friends are dumb.
retrospooty wrote:
> Sounds like a bit of both, LOL!
sungod wrote:
> I have met 3 people who own razrs and they all
> complain that they are buggy and cr@p
Thank you for your replies. I think it is Palm who is dumb for not supporting their paying customers with bug fixes and not putting Wi-Fi in their Treos like many of us have wanted for a long time!!!
It is very sad that Palm devices are not as reliable as they used to be. Sure, they can do much more now, which is great, but bugs that are not fixed really hurts a company's reputation.
Regarding my friends, one friend changed to a RAZR V3M with Verizon. He really likes it, does not think it is cr@p at all, and has not run into any bugs yet. He has owned it for over six months now and highly recommends it.
The other friend changed to a KRZR from Verizon and really likes its much smaller size. On top of the increased reliability and better phone call quality she now has, she did not like having to pay extra for the data service on her Treo. Why have a Treo with its full keyboard and no data service? She is enjoying the savings of over $180 per year.
She does miss the much better and easier to read Calendar app that her Palm used to have, along with all the other 3rd party Palm software she used to use. But a phone first of all has to work reliably for making and receiving calls... if it can not do at least that, then it is not a very "smart" phone.
My third friend is in the process of getting rid of their Treo. Way too many dropped calls, missed calls, and the other problems I listed above. He is very disappointed with his Treo and it makes me feel sad that Palm is letting him down so much. (Palm, please start listening to your current customers instead of only focusing on your future ones.)
I do have a friend with a red Treo 680 from Cingular and she really likes it, except for the poor battery life. I already installed the camera patch, but her battery is always running low. A phone with a dead battery is not very useful. At least its non-volitile memory is keeping the Treo from losing its brain.
I wish Palm would come out with a phone for those people who want the basic Palm functionality that Palm devices have always had, but who do not want the data service. These people do not need a full keyboard and would prefer a much smaller Treo.
I also wish Palm would hurry up and add Wi-Fi to their phones, and come out with one that has a bigger screen like the Palm TX has. I guess we'll have to wait for the iPhone for this.... but Palm could have come out with a device like this years ago.
RE: Most of my Friends are Dumping their Treos for Razrs
I have owned the 700wx and the 700p and i am a real estate agent. As you well know this unit is very important to an agent because i can open lock boxes with the unit without having to carry 2 units.
If it wasn't for GE making the slowest MLS software for wm5, 700p would have been a second thought. The 700wx is by far the better product for business use. I cant begin to explain the benefits because there are so many for a person that needs one hand operation.
by the way, i own a cingular 650p that is collecting dust, but a great back-up to this piece of crap
Update
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based on results.. don't hold your breath...
If a Treo fails in the forest and there's nothing to patch it with - has it really failed?