Comments on: Rumor: Info on Two New Palm Handhelds

what insight! what knowledge! what a poorly written description of the periodic table.

first its the "periodic table", not tableS
second, the placement of items on the table is based upon the properties, for instance, the rightmost column has completely filled electron shells, the column tell you the state of the electron shells.

but, who cares.

third, i don't think they are element names (but i might be wrong there)

nategall says "blah!"

A hard, brittle, corrosion-resistant, gray to white metallic element extracted from wolframite, scheelite, and other minerals.

In Sweedish Tungsten means heavy stone... hope it won't be a brick like handera ;)

Too bad that tungsten may not be as strong as it is after a period of usage. I do hope that Palm can really pull this one out as soon as possible coz with the way other manufacturers are coming out their palm os devices, it better pray that the loyal group of customers will go back to Palm handheld.

It's also possible that PalmSource will licence the word "Palm" to the Solutions Group, allowing them to become PalmSolutions, or something like that.

What the 802.11 fans aren't taking into account is that it isn't suitable for a handheld yet. The battery drain is too much. You can get 802.11 add-ons for your PPC and they all need large external batteries to give you anything like usable battery life.

Bluetooth may be 1/10th the range and 1/10th the speed, but it is about 1/20th the power requirements.

It almost mirrors the Palm vs. PPC war. 802.11 promises much more capability but it is large, expensive, and runs out of power too soon. Bluetooth has less capabilities but what it does do, it does very well and in a small package without draining its batteries.

More on: 802.11 NOT one-size-fits-all technology
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=38459

Pardon? with powersaving on my Symbol CF card uses at most 20-40 mA. Just about any other i/o device I use is going to use that much as well if not more. Certainly the back/sidelighting on any PDA is going to use at least that much (and as much as 2-3 times more), and be used as much or more as the WiFi radio. And yet we don't decide that back/sidelighting isn't suitable for a handheld yet.

PocketPC's may well need supplemental battery support even when using the same WiFi cards, we use on PalmOS PDA's, but that has more to do with what the StrongARM processor is doing in the background than the actual current draw of the radio itself. And that's not a factor on our hardware, as evidenced by the results.

Solar panels aren't quite the miracle product you seem to think they are. At least not yet. At this point, you'd have to have a solar panel much larger than the back of the palm to do you much good. Maybe someday.

> Of course they could just be powered by 2 or 4 replaceable AA batteries.
> Wish list!

The HandEra 330 is powered by 4 AAAs, but many people feel this makes the housing too large. AAs would be even worse.

Don't forget vi vs. emacs! Or Linux vs. *BSD. Or...

Flame on, brave wariors!

What happened with Symbol’s baseband processing, software, and systems expertise to develop complete Bluetooth sub-systems?
http://www.peregrine-semi.com/news_pr_000314.html

What's the update on the Wi-Fi/Bluetooth Joint Proposal by Mobilian Corporation, Symbol?
http://www.mobilian.com/documents/Symbol_release.pdf

However, if you have a look at the USPTO web site, and do a search on "Palm, Inc" as the Owner, you come up with other names that are not currently in use :

Veld, Zire, and Tungsten are all known.
How about Versamail (registerd at the same time as V,Z,&T), PalmSkins, HandWare, and EventClub.
Unfortunately, PhoneStick and BodyGuard have both been abandoned.

HandWare would be a better option for a PDA hardware company, except for the similarity to Handera. The fact they had PhoneStick registered is interesting too.

Just an opinion, but why do they need to change their name again after a split? Lets look at the telco industry ... Bell South, Pacific Bell, Bell Atlantic, or perhaps ATT, ATT Broadband, ATT Wireless. Seperate entities, common brand recognition.

A little corporate history :
Nike was founded by Phil Knight and was originally Blue Ribbon Sports (BRS) - importing "tiger" brand shoes from Japan.
Xerography became commercially available in 1950 by the Xerox Corporation. Xerography comes from the Greek for "dry writing".
Compaq Computer Corporation was founded in 1982 by a group that wanted to build Compact (Portable) Computers .

Nike is unique in that list, but Xerox and Compaq have names that reflect what they do (or did).

Eitherway, its a moot point. The main point of my post was why are people focusing on "Zire" as a company name? There are plenty of companies that are traded as seperate entities that split off from a common company and maintained some of their parent companies identity. IBM do it, AT&T, and Bell do it too.

I know tungsten is an element, but I've never heard of the other two words...anyone know what they mean?

Veld:
www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=veld&r=67

Hmm.. does the whois on that domain show up as iambic?

(Note: To the humor impaired, please don't flame me. It was a joke. ;) Ah what the heck, flame me if you want. Hahaha..)

Jim

Zire
Relevant Dates

Filing Date: 23.07.2002
Earliest Priority Date: 24.05.2002
Priority Country: United States of America

Class 09:
Computer hardware, software and firmware; computer peripherals; operating system
programs; handwriting recognition computer software; personal information
management computer software; data synchronization programs; ebooks; games;
server software; mobile communications software and application development tool
programs for personal and handheld computers; modems, computer cables; computer
styli; mobile and embedded computers; handheld computers with wireless e-mail
and wireless access to electronic communications networks; tablet computers;
mobile telephones; pagers; personal communication devices and portable media
players; user and instruction manuals for all the aforesaid goods in electronic
format; downloadable electronic publications.

Class 35:
Advertising and promotional services; arranging and conducting trade shows in
the fields of computers and computer peripherals, wireless communications and
information technology; advertising and promotion of the goods and services of
others by placing advertisement and promotional displays in an electronic site
accessed via electronic communications networks; promoting the goods and
services of others by providing a website at which users can link to a wide
variety of online retail stores; the bringing together, for the benefit of
others, of a variety of goods enabling customers to conveniently view and
purchase those goods from a general merchandise Internet website; computerized
online ordering services featuring the retail distribution of books, music,
games and computer software; computerized online ordering services featuring
retail distribution of handheld computers, software, accessories, peripherals
and services therefor.

Class 38:
Telecommunications services; digital transmission of voice, data, images, audio,
video, signals, messages and information; providing multiple-user access to
electronic communications networks for the transfer and dissemination of
information; providing news and information via electronic communications
networks; providing wireless telecommunication connections to electronic
communications networks; wireless digital messaging; paging services; electronic
mail services; electronic bulletin-board services; leasing telecommunications
equipment, components, systems and supplies; electronic transmission of
electronic data, electronic mail, digital and electronic communications and
copyrighted material in electronic form featuring encryption and decryption;
electronic transmission of computer software of others by means of electronic
communications networks.
Class 42:
Research, design and consultancy services in the field of information
technology, mobile computers, embedded computers, computer software,
telecommunications and electronic communications networks; computer services;
providing search engines for obtaining data on electronic communications
networks in the field of handheld computers; providing an interactive web site
featuring news and information about handheld computers, desktop computer and
handheld computer software, mobile telephones, digital technologies and wireless
services for handheld computers via electronic communications networks; hosting
websites for others featuring personal calendars, address books and scheduling;
computer hardware, software and firmware design services; online publication
services; online game services; providing an online magazine in the field of
handheld computers and wireless devices; services of an application service
provider featuring data security software applications which secure, project,
encrypt, decrypt, authenticate, monitor, track and transmit electronic data,
electronic mail, communications and copyrighted material in electronic form.

Names and Addresses

Proprietor: Palm, Inc.
5470 Great America Parkway,Santa Clara,California 95052,
United States of America

Incorporated State: Delaware
Incorporated Country: United States of America
Residence Country: United States of America
Customer's Ref: EH/MS/25955
ADP Number: 0795086001

Agent: Lloyd Wise
Commonwealth House,1-19 New Oxford Street,London,WC1A 1LW

ADP Number: 0000117001

Not that I'm implying anything, but this is interesting. With PalmSource flying their new logo lately, I wonder what the logo for the new "Palm" will be.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

Tungsten the d-Zire-able PDA..

Maybe I should copyright this?

*g*

Just because thousands of people buy it doesn't make it a good product. As P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute," and you needn't go further than your nearest iPaq owner to find one.

You can't say this will make the handheld totally useless for games. In fact, the buttons aren't used at all on many of the most popular Palm games, like Bejeweled. However, you are correct that they will make life difficult for people who want to play action games.

---
News Editor

Now, if the D-pad part of it ends up coming true, then more power to Palm. Of course, it's about a year too late for a move like that but we can always hope the developers release updates for action titles like V-Rally, Siberian Strike, Zap, Biplane Ace etc to support the D-pad and 2 buttons. I always thought long ago that Sony or Handspring should have just relocated the existing 6 hardware buttons and made it resemble the old Sega Master System controllers. Remember those? You had a d-pad on one side and 2 fire buttons on the right. No "Start" button, no "pause" button, nothing else. My complaint is not with current Palms having only 6 buttons but rather the layout of those buttons. I only use 3 of my 4 hardware buttons for launching apps (they get far more use for Zap 2016) anyway. I'd not have a problem rememberng that "left" on the D-pad launched my to do list and that "right" on the D-pad launched memo pad.

If the Zoomer had it 8-9 years ago then Palm should have such a button configuration by now!!

It's almost like an exagerrated form of built-in obsolescence!

Let's not forget that this unit is for Mr. Six Pack, and Mr. Six Pack has a very difficult time differentiating all PDA models, let alone Palms......at least judging by what I've seen in the people who are scratching their heads at Best Buy and Circuit City....

The narrow-minded folk around here STILL don't seem to get it.

They keep comparing this device to an m100, or an m105.

Neither of those units are PROFITABLE at a price point of $80, or even less!!!

THAT IS WHY THIS NEW UNIT EXISTS!!

You think $100 is a low price point? This thing will be selling for $80 by next Summer! And Palm will STILL turn a profit on it!

Joe Average will have his PDA, and will be THANKING Palm for making it!!!

It's not for you, me, or anybody else on these forums!

Might I add, that this PDA, when sold for around $60-$80, could provide an EXCELLENT tool for teaching 1st graders how to organize. I'm not trying to be funny.....this unit will put PDAs in the hands of many people who simply either can't AFFORD one at all, or can't justify them at their current price points.

I never wanted a planner when I was a junior in highschool, but when my Dad gave me his old one, the first damn thing I did was plan out my homework, tests, due dates, list phone numbers, etc.

People are so narrow-minded on these forums sometimes, it's flat-out frightening.

Why doesn't this run 5.0? WHY DO YOU THINK, JACK*SS?!?!?

Good luck selling a 5.0 device for $80 in 2002. Not gonna happen!

People still don't understand that the more the Palm OS penetrates the market, IN ANY ITERATION, the more choices we'll have in the future, and the more true utility we'll get from our PDAs.

Enough of this.......

Also, this handheld, if it only has two hardware buttons, might be significantly smaller in some aspect if it is only meant to be an entry level organizer.

I once was working on a project which had the potential to sell a million units. I was wondering whether to work on seeing if it could be manufactured with one less 3 cent part (a bypass capacitor). My boss came over and said "What's $0.03 times a million?". Then he said, "How does that compare with your salary for a entire month?" I got the point.

I specifically referred to a potential m105 with OS 4.1 _and_ (more importantly) the Universal Connector. Do you know how many times my friend who works at Best Buy has tried to convince (usually failing to do so) that just because the m130, 125 and 105 all look the same, they use two different power sources/connectors/styli. Imagine how angry some "joe six-packs" (since that seems to be the preferred name around here) users get when they get home with what they think is the right cradle for their new m105...and realize it's only for the UC units. That's the kind of sentiment Palm cannot afford to be spreading right now, especially with the holiday buying season coming up. I think tha they already missed a big opportunity by not putting the 100 and 105 out to pasture earlier and releasing a cut-down, UC-enabled OS4 unit for the back to school crowd.

All of this little quirks might not seem like a big deal but eventually someone at Palm HQ is going to realize that joe-six packs are where the growth lies, not with PIC readers and corporate purchasing directors. Consumers just want stuff that "works"--note the recent popularity of GameBoys and DVD players. Push a button and there it goes. No reading of fine print required. If Palm can just hang in there for another year or two with the UC standard, then they earn some goodwill around these parts. The usually clueless retail sales clerks will hopefully start differentiating the models by saying "Sonys are cooler and do more but the Palms are easier to use and better for beginners". Palm should strive to be the Macintosh of the PDA world (as far as the public opinion about ease of use).

Anyway, I really, _really_ doubt that this new Palm's going to retail for any less than $89.99. Palm wants to sell this thing for m100/105 prices, but turn a nice profit on each unit. Then, in a year or so when the unit's about to be discontinued and is down to $60 or so, it'll still be profitable. Fact it, between the time of the new unit's release and the time when all inventories of m100/105 are extinguished, those units are a better deal, even though it's not an apples to apples comparison. So to summarize, in a year's time, after the low end unit's price has dropped considerably, it will be a good deal, as long as the price is around the $50-60 level. But for right now, assuming it's priced between $90 and $100, there are better alternatives out there. I really wish Palm would retain the styling and form factor of the m100s, though (although it'ss unlikely). I think that many first time buyers buy based on what their friends are using (ie m100 series) and when they walk into the store to make their first PDA purchase, they will naturally tend to gravitate to "what my buddy has" even if the similarities are in case dimensions and styling alone. I wonder how much smaller the low end unit's screen will be than the m100's?

www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=4070

If you look hard enough you can find deals for the 515 everywhere. I recently found an open box 515 for $300, got the $25 dollar rebate as well $100 dollars for my Vx so end up paying about $175 for the 515, and it was only missing a stylus :) There are tons on Ebay and some for cheap you just have to look thats all.