Comments on: Sony Japan Announces the Clie TG50

Sony Clie TG50 (Updated) Sony Japan has announced the Clie PEG-TG50. From what we can tell the TG50 runs Palm OS 5 and has a built in Bluetooth, keyboard and flip cover.
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Treo 90 replacement!

TDS Computer @ 3/4/2003 1:22:34 AM #
I can already see Treo 90 users lining up to upgrade to this little guy. This is what Handspring should have come out with months ago. A killer handheld with these specs, but with an SD slot.
I love my Treo 90, but this is SO tempting, especially if the battery life is pretty good.


Visit us at www.tdscomputer.com

and T|T replacement too...
gfunkmagic @ 3/4/2003 1:40:04 AM #
Agreed TDS, except I would add T|T users as well. I think Sony was looking at the T|T and seeing how people wanted to use the BT connectivity to connect to the internet via BT enabled mobiles. The TG50 offers this functionality with the added feature of integrated keypad which makes it easier for users to send/check sms messages and email. Definitely a good move by Sony IMO...

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
HangoBango @ 3/4/2003 2:45:10 AM #
Not me, I own a treo 90, am the best thing abt it is that I put it in my pants pocket & it's so light (4oz) that I don't even noticed that it's there. Sure, it doesn't have mp3, and BT, but BT is useless unless I have a BT phone. And the only reasonably priced mem stick is 128 & 256MB, which is really not enough to store any music. 512 & 1GB sticks are way too expensive. Treo 90 is the lightest color palm in the world! I wouldn't give it up til someone comes up with something truely better.

- HangoBango
if it's not broken, brake it!
Bluetooth is FULLY MOBILE.
pdangel @ 3/4/2003 6:19:34 AM #
"BT is useless unless I have a BT phone" it's like saying....i have a driving license but it's useless unless i have a car.

The emphasis in Bluetooth is on mobile, re-configurable computerized units that need sporadic contact with each other.
http://www.swedetrack.com/images/bluet00.htm



"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
CleverClaire @ 3/4/2003 10:51:39 AM #
ok. Now why would a T|T user be inching to "upgrade" to this? Because their T|T is too light weight?

Seriously. I might like a thumbboard. But why would I move from SD to MemStick and add an ounce and an inch to my PDA???? Same memory. Basically the same screen. Proprietary Sony launcher?

T|T has everything on this Clie that matters to most people and is substantially smaller and lighter.

You wish Sony fans.

Claire

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
rsc1000 @ 3/4/2003 11:04:54 AM #
>>ok. Now why would a T|T user be inching to "upgrade" to this? Because their T|T is too light weight?

>>Seriously. I might like a thumbboard. But why would I move from SD to MemStick and add an ounce and an inch to my PDA???? Same memory. Basically the same screen. Proprietary Sony launcher?

Just as important - to a games freak like me - why would i want to ditch my T|Ts D-Pad?

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
sixty-four @ 3/4/2003 11:47:24 AM #
CleverClaire said, "But why would I move from SD to MemStick and add an ounce and an inch to my PDA????"

Putting the TT in a case adds more than an ounce to the overall weight of the unit while significantly increasing its thickness. The integrated cover of the TG50 would be enough protection for my front pants pocket.

Sure the TT has that snap-on cover but it seems like such a hassle to deal with when out and about. I've always loved the elegant simplicity of integrated flip-covers.

I've been giving my upgrade a LOT of thought and have come very close to buying the TT or the Treo 90. I decided against the TT because of the cover-as-an-afterthought and that slider. Ugh, I don't think I could ever get used to it. The incredibly pocketable Treo 90 is a joy to hold and I don't mind the "old school" 33MHz processor and Palm OS4. It's that awful low-res, low-refresh screen. After using my Sony 610 for over a year, the Treo 90's display is horribly jaggy. Still, I'm a function over form kinda guy so I was taking another long look at a demo Treo 90 and was still tempted to buy one. I think I will wait to see how the TG50 feels in hand before I make my decision.

Keep in mind that all of the above comments are made with *my* usage habits as a point of reference. What may work for you might not be ideal for me.

If only Handspring would update the Treo 90 with a 66MHz processor and a 320x320 screen...I'd be all over that like hair on a gorilla.

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 12:01:31 PM #
"ok. Now why would a T|T user be inching to "upgrade" to this? Because their T|T is too light weight?"

No, because they both have Bluetooth. And many people purchasing a device with BT will want to hook it up to a BT phone and send emails or do instant messaging. And a thumbboard makes those tasks easier. But, certainly there are tons of people who buy TT's without ever wanting to do any (or much) wireless stuff with it, in which case the TT may be more desirable for them.

Scott

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
twalk @ 3/4/2003 1:00:31 PM #
I've got both a 615 and a treo 90. Love the screen on the 615, love everything else about the treo. A combination of these two would be great.

The tg50 isn't quite there as a combination of the two. Yes, it has the screen, and it has the KB, and even adds BT. But it's bigger than the treo, heavier, and the battery lasts 1/2 as long. Those 3 things led me to the treo 90, and I can't see myself giving up on any of them.


RE: Treo 90 replacement!
M3wThr33 @ 3/4/2003 4:54:41 PM #
Compared to a T|T I'd be losing SD cards, and this thing isn't confirmed to use MS Pro. Also, I can buy that add-on keypad if I want heavy-typing, but the TG50 can't buy another graffiti device. Not to mention the T|T has a MUCH better button config and the 5-way pad?
What would you be GAINING by purchasing a whole new handheld? A flipscreen and keyboard? WOOOOOOOO! Sign me up!

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
Palm Bluetooth Stack for OS5
pdangel @ 3/5/2003 2:35:47 AM #
Both Palm and Sony use the Palm Bluetooth Stack for OS5. Other Palm licensees could/will follow imho. The Palm Bluetooth Stack for OS5 is based on the Embedded Bluetooth Software of Extended Systems called XTNDAccess Blue SDK.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?S316250B3 (supported profiles). Extended Systems has more then 130 Bluetooth Customers worldwide.

Every Bluetooth member (more then 2000 worldwide) can pick the available Bluetooth profiles they want to use with there product(s). Palm chose not to include all the Bluetooth profiles that are available from Extended Systems. So Palm has add limited profiles to there Palm Bluetooth Stack for OS5. Adding that certain profiles of the available total of 13 profiles aren't intersting for certain products. It's argueable. It's something different imho when for instance Microsoft picks only 3 profiles with there Bluetooth Desktop Solution and which ONLY works with Windows XP. They didn't include the PAN profile for instance (MSFT profile update will come this year they said). That this Bluetooth Product of Microsoft doesn't work with other Bluetooth Products isn't a surprise unless it supports the same profiles and works with Windows XP. That certain so-called tech writers like our Walter Mossberg of WSJ haven't done there DD and write st@pido things like "...installed the Microsoft software and was using the keyboard and mouse, tested the Bluetooth transceiver to see if it would recognize another Bluetooth-enabled device -- a Sony T68I cellphone. After following 46 arduous steps -- 46! -- with help from a technician, we still couldn't get our computer to communicate with the phone. In my test, I couldn't get it to work with a Bluetooth-equipped IBM laptop."

Now what a surprise.....This is a Microsoft issue not a Bluetooth issue imho. You could say that every company should include the complete profiles but, like i explained above, certain profiles aren't useable in certain products. You don't need the Headset profile with a keyboard for instance (ok maybe some do ;o)

"....Bluetooth is being optimised for a myriad of different roles. With these 12/13 new profiles, in addition to the 13 existing profiles, Bluetooth's abilities are being solidified from vague goals to practical real-world implementations. As more and more products implementing these profiles are released, the true potential of Bluetooth should be realised, showing to the user the practical uses of Bluetooth-enabled devices, as opposed to industry promises & newspaper predictions of what Bluetooth can do. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a digital camera transmitting a image to a mobile phone, via a Bluetooth link, is worth even more to Bluetooth's future user up-take."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2D5420B3

deadline.


"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
pdangel @ 3/5/2003 3:10:56 AM #
By the way.....i e-mailed Mister Mossberg about this but he didn't find the decensy to e-mail me back and to edit his article. Are these so-called tech writers great or what?

Thumbs up....not

:o(

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Sony Ericsson CDMA phone (for Sprint?) with Bluetooth
pdangel @ 3/5/2003 3:29:06 AM #
Sony Ericsson T608 color-screen phone will be available in North America in the second quarter for use with CDMA networks. It will be the first CDMA phone with Bluetooth wireless technology available in the U.S., the company said. It includes a joystick and a navigational joystick.
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030304/0645000587_1.html

mobile.burn.com: The T608 is Sony Ericsson's first phone for Sprint and the first CDMA handset in North America with built in Bluetooth. To be used on Sprint's CDMA 1xRTT network, it can be expected to share the typical Vision features such as GPS, Java Games and Polyphonic Ringtones.
http://mobile.burn.com/news.jsp?Id=187

Sprint will offer Bluetooth Handsfree as accessoiries with there phone.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L357420B3

Sony Ericsson Bluetooth phones include the R520, T39, T68i, P800 and the upcoming T610 (T68i's substitute), T608 and Z1010 dual mode UMTS/GSM-GPRS phone
http://clubsonyericsson.com/en/
http://clubsonyericsson.com/en/products.htm
http://www.sonyericsson.com/t610/
Z1010 dual mode UMTS/GSM-GPRS phone with Bluetooth connections to up to 100 meters
http://mobiledreams.free.fr/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=55

Available/Arriving Mobile Phones with Bluetooth(+ CDMA/Bluetooth issue; scroll)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L225259A3

*The Motorola TimePort 270c is a CDMA phone and has been available in the US but has Bluetooth as additional/optional feature and not built-in.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C587250B3
http://www.4cellular.com/search/phone_Detail.cfm?id=8

Products like this Sony-Ericy CDMA phone with Bluetooth and the new Sony Clie Devices makes Bluetooth Wireless more attractive in the US and Asia imho.



"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Sony Ericsson Bluetooth Music Hands-free HBM-30
pdangel @ 3/5/2003 4:04:36 AM #
Sony Ericsson Unveils Accessory for Music Lovers: the Bluetooth Music Hands-free HBM-30: Doubling as a high quality digital audio player and wireless hands-free to any Bluetooth™-enabled phone, the HBM-30 is the latest addition to Sony Ericsson's leading portfolio of mobile phone accessories. The Sony Ericsson HBM-30 is a small-sized music player for MP3 and ATRAC3, utilizing Memory Stick Duo for music storage. Through Bluetooth wireless technology, it can be connected to any Bluetooth-enabled mobile phone and in that way also be used as a handsfree device. When a call comes in, the music will be muted and the user can choose whether to take the call or not. The display will show the name of the caller when not showing the name of the song playing. The HBM-30 can also be used without being connected to a phone. Consumers can easily update their music library by using the music recording function of the HBM-30, or by using a PC. For PCs without Memory Stick drive, there is a wide range of adapters. The HBM-30 comes with high quality stereo headphones from Sony and 64 MB Memory Stick Duo and will start shipping during second half of 2003. Bluetooth products communicate by means of a radio link, eliminating the need for a physical connection via cable. Bluetooth wireless technology has been adapted by the world's leading mobile phone, computer, laptop and PDA manufacturers among others as the ideal cable replacement technology. Sony Ericsson today has the most comprehensive portfolio of Bluetooth phones and accessories. Sony Ericsson Bluetooth phones include the T68i, P800, T610 and T608.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K148660B3

(REMINDER) PalmSource and Sony Ericsson Bluetooth Deal
Posted By: Ryan on Thursday, October 17, 2002 3:25:08 PM
PalmSource, Inc., and Sony Ericsson, today announced their plans surrounding optimization of the Bluetooth interoperability between Sony Ericsson mobile phones and Palm Powered(TM) mobile devices.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4382



"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
gfunkmagic @ 3/5/2003 4:05:19 AM #
wow, thanks for the links pdangel!!

RE: Treo 90 replacement!
pdangel @ 3/5/2003 4:14:39 AM #
No thanx gfunk (i thought it was P-Funk? ;o) By the way....i met George Clinton once in Den Haag after the North Sea Jazz Festival had ended. Great guy. oooops of topic.

I never give up the "funk". Love those old funk/soul guys like Larry Graham, Zapp, Johnny Guitar Watson, James Carr etc. yeah yeah.....deadline.

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Would take convincing to go back to Sony...
hawkspy @ 3/9/2003 11:37:09 AM #
Horses for Courses I suppose - but for me the lack of battery life in Sony products and their unforgiving data-loss if battery runs out really takes the gloss off their otherwise great products.

Also - the screens for the CLIEs have always had a bluish tinge to them, not to mention the irritating narrow font they use as a hangover from the japanese character development base.

I swapped TO the Tungsten T from the T665 and am really pleased with the battery life (considerably better brightness-for-brightness), implementation of simple bluetooth. And for me - grafitti has been an excellent way to enter notes on the fly - I wish T9 had carried on into OS5 - but I have the slim keyboard for longer text tasks and until such time as an OS5, phone/BT/Wi-Fi unit is released...see no need for an on-board keyboard.

As I began - horses for courses...but I love the small Tungsten T.

TG665 Navigation Buttons

ProE @ 3/4/2003 1:38:37 AM #
I just look at the TG50's pages posted on Japan site. I don't know if any of you guys notice the navigation buttons look identicle to the T665! From the T665's reviews, that is one of the cons on this model. Check this out:
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consume...pop_feat1_6.jpg

Also, VG on TG50 seems to take up space on the screen. If you use the VG on TG50, you will only have few space left to see things. Check this out (scroll all the way down at the bottom):
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consume...TG50/feat2.html

:)

RE: TG665 Navigation Buttons
Marshall Flinkman @ 3/4/2003 10:18:41 AM #
That page comes up "not found"...

RE: TG665 Navigation Buttons
cbowers @ 3/4/2003 4:21:11 PM #
Did you mean:
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-TG50/feat2.html

Instead?

If they did VG as in HandEra and NX70/NZ90 fashion, it would mean a 240x320 (the 80 pixel space at the bottom for the VG), space for the app to display in. Don't know about that. It leaves a non-square area for a non-high res app to fit into.

You could perhaps do something like the reversi game image:
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-TG50/Images/feat4_15_2.gif

Where the app displays in the square area of the upper left. In this case a 240x240 display. Leaving 80 pixels below for graffity, and 80 pixels on the right, for whatever. Blank space? Or write to it with a proprietary Sony API?

Not unlike the HandEra 330. A 240x240 display (doable also with the OS5 API with 1.5x scaling mode). You can shrink the VG area and get 240x320.

All speculation. Interesting device though. Page-up/Page-down seems to be the only nasty detracter. Sure there's the jog dial. I can send page-up/page-down with the jog dial on my HandEra too (on non-HandEra-ized apps), but the hardware buttons still get their use. Often the jog dial is trapped for special use, leaving you with the hardware buttons again...

RE: TG665 Navigation Buttons
Nebrie @ 3/4/2003 4:36:31 PM #
They look inverted with the buttons raised and a slit in the middle that is recessed.

Apples to oranges
Marshall Flinkman @ 3/5/2003 2:21:33 PM #
Virtual Graffiti and the onscreen keyboard are two totally different things. The screens shown at the foot of Sony Japan's page are for entering text in Japanese, whether in western letters (the lowest image on the left) that are then converted to Japanese characters, or tapping on the kana the way we tap on the onscreen keyboard on most Palm OS devices. Not likely to be something we'll see in a US or EFIGS version of this device.



lets see how smart sony is

navomaal @ 3/4/2003 2:13:59 AM #
I would love to know how much this product will sell for. If it were the dummies from palm - the would try to sneak it in for 499 - whereas sony - hmmm...I think we should just let the history speak.


RE: lets see how smart sony is
graph @ 3/4/2003 4:40:36 PM #
Lets see how smart sony is in figuring out that the UP and BUTTON SUCKS! and NO the jogdial will never replace up/down buttons.

Ive been waiting for this model but im not so happy of seeing the same up/down button on my 665c

I wonder...

hellferno @ 3/4/2003 2:31:42 AM #
This seems like a killer product, but...

Now that Palms are running ARM, StrongArm in fact, is the day near that people will be able to choose between PalmOS, Pocket PC, or Linux? Also,

How in hell can Sony make something that small, functional, and beautiful with basically the same (or better) hardware that makes Pocket PCs so clunky?


RE: I wonder...
asiayeah @ 3/4/2003 3:31:04 AM #
It's just that the resource requirements for Palm OS 5 is still smaller than that of a PocketPC and the Palm OS 5 is just more energey efficient.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: I wonder...
rsc1000 @ 3/4/2003 11:08:40 AM #
>>Now that Palms are running ARM, StrongArm in fact

Its not StrongARM - it's XScale.

RE: I wonder...
kidA @ 3/4/2003 11:30:56 AM #
clunky, eh? have you seen the ipaq 1910? it's one of the smallest PDAs on the market, PalmOS or PocketPC.


RE: I wonder...
BlueAnon @ 3/4/2003 11:32:28 AM #
200mHz PXA 250 to be precise. Nobody else is using 250 in new product anymore. Casio E3000 and Tosh E750 have gone 255.
RE: I wonder...
Wollombi @ 3/4/2003 7:58:22 PM #
>"clunky, eh? have you seen the ipaq 1910? it's one of the smallest PDAs on the market, PalmOS or PocketPC."<

Uh...yeah. And it's also one of the slowest and worst performing. Your arguement is invalid.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: I wonder...
BlueAnon @ 3/4/2003 8:13:53 PM #
Clue up before start blabering.

http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?
cat=machinesppc&id=242&p=3

RE: I wonder...
abosco @ 3/4/2003 8:49:14 PM #
Wow, a French review. Is not being able to read it proof that it's actually fast? Maybe you're the one who needs to "clue up" before you start trolling.

Oh, and the HP1910 is unbearably slow. I thought I was using my m105 when I was playing with it.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: I wonder...
BlueAnon @ 3/4/2003 9:55:40 PM #
really? is it as slow as wordsmith spell checker? I have to admit h1910 is not as fast as flyinng saucers tho'

h1910 speed
mj6798 @ 3/4/2003 10:39:46 PM #
I have played around with it at a store. Even running PocketPC software, I found it to be very responsive--better than my, admittedly, aging Palm. And the things have been selling like hotcakes. Running Linux or PalmOS, the h1910 should fly.

Bluetooth-enabled iPAQ H1915 (updated 1910) Coming!?
pdangel @ 3/5/2003 3:16:45 AM #
Bluetooth-enabled iPAQ H1915 (updated 1910) Coming!?
http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2951.html



"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: I wonder...
jackatwork02109 @ 3/7/2003 12:27:30 PM #
I own the iPaq 1910 and it is neither clunky or slow. It also overclocks easily with little effect on the decent (for any color device) battery life.

However that said, I would have purchased this instead had it been available 3 months ago. It is a little homely compared to the 1910 but looks very useable, and with the backlit keyboard would have been exactly what I was looking for.



VG Model coming anytime soon?

Juno017 @ 3/4/2003 2:36:28 AM #
This would be the perfect PDA for me if it had Virtual Graffiti instead of that built in thumbboard.

RE: VG Model coming anytime soon?
pen_n_paper @ 3/4/2003 4:48:59 AM #
actually they do have VG they stuck it in with the keyboard...its a really small samll screen if you do that.....though


----------------------------------------
Join my forums and read my reviews at,
www.pants-onfire.2ya.com
Current reviews,
TT,Zire,NX60/NX70v

RE: VG Model coming anytime soon?
Fammy @ 3/4/2003 10:25:53 AM #
One day someone will listen to us and release a thin mid-range PDA with OS5 and virtual grafitti.

Garmin was close, in my opinion. I don't have a need for the GPS (but it would be fun).


_____
Fammy

RE: VG Model coming anytime soon?
hotpaw4 @ 3/5/2003 1:57:49 AM #
The TG50 *has* virtual graffiti capability on its square display.

If you mean a hires+ (320x480) display, then where in a slim unit are you going to put the battery to power that many pixels? Battery life (power on time) is usually more related to the number of pixels on the display than to the CPU MHz.

RE: VG Model coming anytime soon?
Marshall Flinkman @ 3/5/2003 3:44:36 PM #
1) As I posted above, I don't think we'll see that input screen on a US/EFIGS version, if/when Sony releases one. That looks like Japanese only. For English, it'd be like a

2) I don't know if I'd call that "Virtual Graffiti" in the same sense that the

RE: VG Model coming anytime soon?
Marshall Flinkman @ 3/5/2003 3:44:36 PM #
1) As I posted above, I don't think we'll see that input screen on a US/EFIGS version, if/when Sony releases one. That looks like Japanese only. For English, it'd be like a Graffiti area on a Treo or Tungsten W.

2) I don't know if I'd call that "Virtual Graffiti" in the same sense that the HandEra/Sony clamshell/Garmin units use, where instead of a "static" Graffiti area you have one that can disappear. That's what I've always understood VG to be--something you can turn off to expand the screen, not something that you bring up like the onscreen keyboard.

backlit buttons?

thraal @ 3/4/2003 2:55:30 AM #
are the buttons of the thumb keyboard backlit?

see
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-TG50/feat3.html

if they are, it looks _very_ cool

t.

RE: backlit buttons?
gfunkmagic @ 3/4/2003 2:59:26 AM #
yup, I believe they are backlit. Checkout this pic:

http://www.zdnet.co.jp/mobile/0303/04/l_tg501.jpg

RE: backlit buttons?
thraal @ 3/4/2003 5:37:35 AM #
ok, i want one!

the 2 perfect pdas finally exist: the tungsten t and the tg50

the only thing missing for a perfect line-up is a tg50 with a 320x480 screen and no thumb keyboard

my only worry for the tg50 is the battery life - i'm using a T600C right now and its battery life sucks

t.

RE: backlit buttons?
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 9:45:32 AM #
OK, I love this thing. I'm glad they got the backlit keyboard right. Two flaws though:

1) Why aren't they using the tranlucent screen like their SJ33? That would be great to have. I wonder if the cover is replaceable?
2) The app buttons look awful and it would have been better if they integrated it more like the Treo (below the screen cover). Of course, without a see-through cover, it's probably unimportant.

My other problem with it has nothing to do with the device itself. The only option for Bluetooth in the US seems to be the T68i with AT&T or T-Mobile. Coverage isn't very good for me for either of these and neither offer an affordable (if at all) unlimited data plan. When is Sprint's BT phone coming out?

Scott

RE: backlit buttons?
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 9:54:58 AM #
Actually, I just took a closer look at the app buttons. And they actually look decent. They definitely seem different than the T665's. I still think it would be better to position them below the thumbboard, though. Not only for the reason I gave above but also because it would allow you to hold the device and thumb-type more comfortably, IMO. I think one of the nice things about the NR/NX/NZ-series is that the extra "dead" space below the thumbboard allows the base of your thumbs to rest on it. Adding a bit more space below the thumbboard on this would help a bit but still wouldn't be great though, as my Treo 300 has more space and it's still pretty uncomfortable to type on.

I think my ideal device would probably be an NZ90 without the CF slot and in a shorter/thinner package. But the TG50 may be the next device for me. Good thing I didn't lock into that Sprint contract. ;)

Scott

RE: backlit buttons?
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 10:02:00 AM #
Whoops...Spoke a bit too soon. The application buttons look better, but the up/down toggle is still horrible.

Scott

RE: backlit buttons?
t-taka @ 3/4/2003 10:25:38 AM #
they announced if you use 30 miniutes a day without bucklit, it is available about 11 days.

RE: backlit buttons?
Foo Fighter @ 3/4/2003 10:46:15 AM #
> "1) Why aren't they using the tranlucent screen like their SJ33?"

You mean "Transflective" display? It is.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: backlit buttons?
markgm @ 3/4/2003 11:43:52 AM #
The backlit buttons are a great idea, however, after checking out the nz90, I'd rather they kept the keyboard that is on the NR and NX series, or at least that style of keys. But maybe that's just because I didn't learn on that type of keyboard.

RE: backlit buttons?
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 11:56:28 AM #
> "1) Why aren't they using the tranlucent screen like their SJ33?"

"You mean "Transflective" display? It is."

No, I mean the translucent screen cover (sorry, I left that last word out). Personally, though, I'd rather it be transparent, as opposed to translucent. I use my Treo 300 quite a bit to check appointments, etc. without ever bothering to flip it open. But translucent would have been better than opaque.

Scott


RE: backlit buttons?
halocline @ 3/4/2003 1:59:18 PM #
Actually I think you meant transparent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=transparent), not translucent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=translucent)

RE: backlit buttons?
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 2:27:28 PM #
"Actually I think you meant transparent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=transparent), not translucent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=translucent)"

Nope. I meant what I said. The SJ33 has a translucent, not transparent cover. It's color-tinted and fairly dark, so it's not as good as a clear transparent cover (which, as I said, I'd prefer), though I imagine Sony thinks their colored covers look "cooler." Usability has never been a top priority there, it seems. Still, even a translucent colored cover would be better than the solid metal cover that it has.

Scott

RE: backlit buttons?
Altema @ 3/4/2003 2:55:17 PM #
"they announced if you use 30 miniutes a day without bucklit, it is available about 11 days."

Does anybody out there use their color pda with the backlight off all the time? Just curious as to the possible scenairo.

i wonder if keyboard backlit can be turned off
graph @ 3/4/2003 4:49:25 PM #
I always use the backlit on my color screen. i use it with backlit 99% of the time.

i wonder if keyboard backlit can be turned off and keep screen light on..

RE: backlit buttons?
jaggrey @ 3/4/2003 5:45:14 PM #
Sprint's BT phone is coming out in mid-May.

University of Miami
2001 National Champions
34-0 and counting! Fiesta Bowl here we come!!!
RE: backlit buttons?
carioca76 @ 3/4/2003 6:53:26 PM #
i can use my 615 for 4+ hours nearly constant taking pages of notes in a meeting (maxed out notepad a few times), searching for data, reading, ... with the backlight on but brightness at its lowest. works great but then I run to my sync base & charge it again.
RE: backlit buttons?
atc24 @ 3/4/2003 7:35:28 PM #
I'm pretty sure it is against Sprint's Terms of Service to use their unlimited 3G data plan with any kind of external device; you're supposed to buy a plan that comes with a set amount of data. However, many people get the unlimited plan and use it with their laptop and stuff anyway. You could also do it the old fashioned way by dialing up, but its slow (9.6 kbits/s for my GSM T68) and it uses up your plan's time.
RE: backlit buttons?
cykalan @ 3/5/2003 2:51:44 AM #
but a magnesium alloy casing can provide you much more protection....and in my opinion...loooks cooler....

a plastic cover could possibly crack after pro-longed use.....and.....the fingerprints on it is really ugly....

and most important....if you want the device to be thin enough, you can only go for metallic casing.....

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

Wow, neat little handheld.

Fat_Man @ 3/4/2003 3:07:41 AM #
This is a great little handheld, small form factor, Palm OS 5 with a 200mhz processor and a built in keyboard.

This will hurt the Tungsten line.

It is me or does it seem like Sony is playing "what you can do, I can do better!" with Palm.

This annoucement along with Palm's warning of lower than predicted $$, will hurt Palm alot.

(Conspiracy theory)-->Seems funny that Sony is announcing the earlier than expected release of the memory stick pro and now this announcement. I bet the "patch" is around the corner. If a patch is require at all. Sony may have just told everyone that a patch was require so the reg. memory sticks will keep selling. Anyway, everything seems to be falling into position.

KAY

RE: Wow, neat little handheld.
asiayeah @ 3/4/2003 3:34:01 AM #
I believe this Clie and the Palm Tungsten T will suit different users. The Tungsten T is still shorter than this Clie and not all Palm users prefer a built-in keyboard to a hard graffiti area.

Personally, I just prefer the SDIO to the Memory Stick format.

In any case, I am sure this device will certainly boost up the popularity of the Palm OS 5 to consumers!

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Wow, neat little handheld.
hkklife @ 3/4/2003 10:09:58 AM #
Despite its heap of bugs/aggrivations, I think for my personal daily use, I'd pick the T|T over any of the Sony OS5 units, since I don't need (or want) a keyboard or camera in my device.

Also, I loathe the MS format (pro or otherwise) but I still must commend Sony for getting certin little details right, such as the backlight keyboard! Wow! I just wish Palm would learn a lesson from that and from the only good feature of the m505, the backlit Grafitti area.

Ideally, a (realistically) refreshed T|T would squash all of the bugs of the T|T, offer a backlit Grafitti area, and bump up the ram and cpu as much as possible without handicapping the battery life. Until then, I think this new Sony is gonna steal a *lot* of sales from Palm's T|T as well as be a nice upgrade for some Treo 90 users as well.

RE: Wow, neat little handheld.
rsc1000 @ 3/4/2003 11:21:29 AM #
I agree with above posts. This is a nice unit - but i don't really see it as an improvement over T|T - unless the keyboard is more important to you than size, weight, lack of SD, and lack of D-PAD (can't believe they messed up with that absurd rocker-switch yet again!! - its little things like that that are important to daily use...). Sony has had it right in the multimedia department for awhile (ie: MP3) - but that is a matter of software. I've got 3rd party MP3 players and expect RealPlayer to come out (someday soon???!!) - so this isn't a biggy issue.

RE: Wow, neat little handheld.
mashoutposse @ 3/4/2003 11:37:18 AM #
-Faster processor
-Better screen (if the NX and SJ33 are any indication)
-NetFront internet browser
-Native support for MS Office (Word, Excel, PPT), PDF, and HTML email attachments
-Jog Dial
-MPEG player
-Mactromedia Flash
-Brushed aluminum flip cover
-Lit keyboard (for emails and such)
-Remote camera feature (can control Sony's new BT-equipped cameras remotely -- this one is amazing)
-MUCH better looking

That equals a TG purchase for me.

RE: Wow, neat little handheld.
Admin @ 3/4/2003 12:37:00 PM #
The Remote camera feature is really amazing, but very likely won't be on the US version. The NZ also has this but it's diabled on the US spec because the BT cybershots are only available in Japan.

The Price?

pen_n_paper @ 3/4/2003 4:53:50 AM #
according to Xumedo from the discussion forums...

The price of the TG50 is 40,000 YEN.. which is about.... $319

!!!!

----------------------------------------
Join my forums and read my reviews at,
www.pants-onfire.2ya.com
Current reviews,
TT,Zire,NX60/NX70v

RE: The Price?
Itai @ 3/4/2003 6:14:51 AM #
I guess the price in US will be around 400$. You can place a pre-order now for 382$ at Tech Depot (http://www.techdepot.com/product.asp?productid=1556571)

Itai

Clie TG50 Prices
chrissy @ 3/4/2003 11:52:03 AM #
Can't wait for the TG50 to come out -- will definitely be getting one! Price checks are available here:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=699666/ut=c0c1c40274a76764

Two stores are already listing it for sale; lowest unit price this far is $375.95 at Computers4Sure.com.

RE: The Price?
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 11:59:23 AM #
"Two stores are already listing it for sale; lowest unit price this far is $375.95 at Computers4Sure.com."

Goodie. It looks like it's coming to the US pretty soon after all.

Scott

RE: The Price?
CKMOOSE @ 3/4/2003 2:44:01 PM #
Atually, 40,000Yen is a bit more than $340.00 US It looks like we pay a little premium. Most likely to cover import taxes and teriffs.
Still the price falls right in line. The T665c was $399.00 US when it came out.

Time flies like an arrow...
Fruit Flies like a banana.

It's nice but.

NikMan @ 3/4/2003 5:35:56 AM #
I think Sony should make smaller PalmOS 5 handleds. Maybe even with 320*480 resolution. I dont know.

But one think for sure, Sony will beat Palm this year. Tungsten I great and I have it but there is still no free mp3 software from Palm and it has pathetic alarms and no multimedia even.

Damn you Palm, think and don't be destroyed by this stupid decisions.

RE: It's nice but.
ganoe @ 3/4/2003 11:29:49 AM #
> But one think for sure, Sony will beat Palm this year.

Possibly in your mind, but not on this planet. Palm outsells Sony something like 5 to 1 and I doubt that will change drastically. I'd buy a Tungsten T over this without thinking twice about it. The only advantage it appears to have is that it might have a user-replaceable battery.

SAME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS!

graph @ 3/4/2003 7:48:54 AM #
!!!!

RE: SAME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS!
thraal @ 3/4/2003 8:13:46 AM #
you don't need them

i always use the jogdial instead

t.

RE: SAME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS!
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 10:01:28 AM #
Both are important. I have a Treo 300 and use the jog wheel to scroll item by item and the up/down buttons to go page by page.

Scott

RE: SAME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS!
rsc1000 @ 3/4/2003 11:28:25 AM #
The rocker switch/button on this is unacceptable. I love Sony units - but it is little things like this that mean the difference in terms of usability. I mean - action games are completly out of the question with this unit. If thats not a big deal for you and you prefer the keyboard - then this is probably a great unit.

RE: SAME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS!
Fat_Man @ 3/4/2003 11:55:23 AM #
If you at the keyboard there are a set of directional button there.

KAY
RE: SAME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS!
rsc1000 @ 3/4/2003 12:47:02 PM #
>>If you at the keyboard there are a set of directional button there.

I didn't see those - nice. Still - in the pitch of battle with an alien race thats hell-bent on conquering earth - i don't think i would the future of the human race to those little things :)

RE: SAME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS!
Fat_Man @ 3/4/2003 12:58:23 PM #
up(pg up)/down(pg dn)/left/right buttons

http://www.palmoslove.com/work/feature/tg50/tg50-10b.jpg

KAY

RE: SAME UP AND DOWN BUTTONS!
graph @ 3/4/2003 4:45:16 PM #
"thraal @ 3/4/2003 8:13:46 AM
you don't need them

i always use the jogdial instead

t."

thraal, i do need decent up/down buttons. I have t665c and i never use the jogdial.

Keyboard, Memory Stick Pro, Alloy body

doctor__no @ 3/4/2003 9:18:14 AM #
I was skeptical about the lack of graffitti but I might purchace this unit because it has a keyboard. For someone who sucks writing in graffiti such as me, a keyboard is way nicer.

It also says it's Memorystick Pro compatible, which is better I guess than the old memory stick.

I also like the all aluminum body and the back lit buttons.

It also seems to have phone capabilities along with a plug in card. It already has support for Japan's PHS service. Hope they have something for GPS compatible module.

RE: Keyboard, Memory Stick Pro, Alloy body
JKingGrim @ 3/4/2003 2:54:25 PM #
Of course memstick pro is better that memstick, but it still is no where near better that SD.

More photos here...

Scott R @ 3/4/2003 10:11:21 AM #
More photos on PalmOSLove.com:
http://www.palmoslove.com/work/feature/news20030304.html

Some comparison shots to the NX-series and SJ33. Definitely a bit longer than I hoped for.

Scott

RE: More photos here...
Fat_Man @ 3/4/2003 10:55:43 AM #
There are two buttons on side of the hardware buttons, I believe that they are the home/menu and cal/find buttons that suppose to be on the silk graffti screen.

They looked very cool, and I really liked the shiny aluminum casing. Looks very sleek and professional.

KAY

RE: More photos here...
mashoutposse @ 3/4/2003 11:05:52 AM #
OK, that HAS to be the most beautiful PDA ever. I'm getting one to go with my clamshell CLIE.

TG50 Pricing

dhchung @ 3/4/2003 10:56:39 AM #
Just found out that TG50 is selling for 39800 yen, that's $338 USD.
I think this is a killer of T|T which is selling for $399.

RE: TG50 Pricing
rsc1000 @ 3/4/2003 12:51:07 PM #
T|T is selling at numerous places for under $350. The lowest i've seen is $308. Plus - Palm has a new offer of a free Veo SD slot camera (worth $99 - it's a mail-in offer i believe). That makes the T|T a MUCH better deal than when they offered it for $499 4 months ago.

RE: TG50 Pricing
dhchung @ 3/4/2003 5:30:26 PM #
wow, sounds great. then T|T is a better choice for those who like a smaller PDA with camrea
where did you see scuh a good deal?

RE: TG50 Pricing
rsc1000 @ 3/5/2003 9:22:09 AM #
>>wow, sounds great. then T|T is a better choice for those who like a smaller PDA with camrea
where did you see scuh a good deal?

Just search google usinmg keywords 'tungsten t' and 'price' - you'll find numerous online retailors with prices in the $308 to $349 range. The camera deal is mentioned in the previous PIC news item and is also on Palms site.

Bluetooth Light

sandbuck @ 3/4/2003 12:50:06 PM #
Damn..

I wish my TT had a cool Bluetooth light....

flip cover

carioca76 @ 3/4/2003 12:52:50 PM #
I noticed the 2 holes on the back. From another comment I remember reading you might be able to remove the hard cover & attach the current leather flip cover that will flip all the way back. Where can you purchase just the flip cover?

TG50 size

jmbladen @ 3/4/2003 12:51:02 PM #
Looks to me that the TG50 is almost the exact same size and shape as the N710/760. I just recently moved from a N760 to a t615. I have a BT mem stick and a case for my t615. All in they weigh 5.9oz and are as thin as the tg50. The battery life estimates seem similar to the t615. I do not see a compelling reason to upgrade to this device. I want an OS5 t615 with 320x480 screen and built in BT to upgrade to with better battery life. Guess will have to wait for some new technology before that device comes out.
RE: TG50 size
carioca76 @ 3/4/2003 1:10:41 PM #
I agree with you but there seem to be so many people who don't like graffiti. I personally love it. I tried the keyboard on nx70 & ... its not useful. Give me graffiti any day.
Now if the graffiti 2 still works good maybe this is a good combo of the 2 options.
As far as the 480 screen ... I want one really bad & all I can think of is ... Garmin is the only one who has shown they will do it I haven't checked to see what happens to all the programs I like to run on a nx70 but I am assuming either many don't take advantage of the full screen or just plain don't work ...
I asked dataviz if they would flip their screen to take advantage of it & they suggested I submit it as a suggestion. I was disappointed to see that even though the 480 screen has been out for a while ... no one is really taking advantage of it.
So where I also really want a 480 screen ... I wonder if I would really benefit from it.

RE: TG50 size
Scott R @ 3/4/2003 2:34:39 PM #
I like this device and I happen to love Graffiti. However, a thumbboard is better, IMO, when you're dealing with longer notes. Since this is a BT device it would be a natural for wireless email where a thumbboard would be nice to have.

Scott

RE: TG50 size
donaldekelly @ 3/4/2003 3:56:20 PM #
Someone on Brighthand listed the cubic inches of a few pdas (I hope it is kosher to copy):

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?threadid=74103


"It's the size of extended Tungsten, almost the size of 39xx.

iPAQ h1910 = 6.71 cubic (4.46"x 2.75"x 0.50") 4.23 oz.
iPAQ 3955 = 10.49 cubic (5.3" x 3.3" x 0.6") 6.5 oz.
Tungsten = 7.20/8.64cubic (4.0/4.8"x3.0"x0.6") 5.6 oz.
TG50 = 8.8 cubic (2.8" x 4.96"x .64) 6.4 oz."


Then someone else pointed out that if you put a case on the TT or the h1910 they actually are about the same size as the TG50:


"You are comparing a device with a flipcover with devices without them, which means they need cases of some kind. Therefore, a fairer comparison would be the TG50 without its flipcover on.

That's 5.0 x 2.8 x .5 = 7 cubic inches, or between the h1910 and the T|T while open."

-------

I am thinking about a Tungsten T and this TG50. The differences I can see are:

Size - As you mention - if you put a tungsten in a case this is actually smaller (depending on the case).

Input - It has a keyboard - which I prefer. And some kind of virtual grafiti - even though it makes the screen smaller.

Memory Card - But Sony is usually behind secure digital on the memory sticks - until now??? Maybe they have a wi-fi stick coming around the same time as the SD WI-FI?

Speed - negligable probably.

Battery length - probably about the same? I don't know.

Looks - the TT looks better, but this looks pretty good too.

Screen quality - toss up? Slight edge to Sony?

Screen size - ????????

Any other comparisons????

someone tell me how to add a picture, then I will really scare you all!

Why Choose Tiny Keyboard Instead of Big Screen

bmari20007 @ 3/4/2003 1:54:50 PM #
Why did sony decide, when looking at what they did with the NX series, that people liked a tiny little toy keyboard (which my thumbs would hit 4 keys at a time with) instead of a best in class, revolutionary for a palm of that size, 320x480 resolution screen? There would be ZERO complaints had they done a big screen instead of a little keyboard.

ZERO

RE: Why Choose Tiny Keyboard Instead of Big Screen
hotpaw4 @ 3/4/2003 2:20:50 PM #
More display pixels requires more power (to refresh and backlight), and cost more. So there would have been lots of complaints about 30% less battery life. And also less buyers because of the increased price.

Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead

Robotica1 @ 3/4/2003 1:47:07 PM #
16 MB of RAM?? ARGHH! I guess Sony just wants to sell mem sticks and doesn't care that much about customer usability . Here's an area where Palm can jump ahead of Sony at liitle extra cost. Including the RAM issue, here are the best ways for Palm to move ahead of Sony and avoid attrition to Pocket PC:

At least 32 MB RAM (they really should go to 64 MB+
320x480 screen with virtual graffitti (D-Pad would
be great with landscap view of large spreadsheets;
got to drop the TT's slider)
Replaceable battery (a must with higher RAM)
Dual SD slots (one for Wi-Fi, one for apps)
Keep Bluetooth
Bundle the essntial software (back-up, enhanced
security, MP-3 (got to do alot better here then their
half-***ed effot with the TT)
Add some video capability out-of-the box to give them some glitz.

David

RE: Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead
Fat_Man @ 3/4/2003 2:32:46 PM #
David,

Dude, you are dreaming. Since when has Palm done anything innovative in the past 5 years. Increasing the RAM? If Handspring didn't push the envelope with their 8mb Visor Deluxe, Palm will still have only 2mb RAM.

Yeah, Palm will increase the RAM as soon as someone else do it, then they will just follow the leader like they have with everything else.

KAY

RE: Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead
Fat_Man @ 3/4/2003 2:40:29 PM #
And oh by-the-way, everything that you wanted in your list has been done by somebody else.

KAY
RE: Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead
Beavis @ 3/4/2003 2:56:48 PM #
Garmin iQue 3600 is coming soon, with 32 Mb RAM, 320x480, Virtual Grafitti.

RE: Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead
Fat_Man @ 3/4/2003 4:07:45 PM #
yes, the Garmin iQue 3600 does have 320x480 screen, but is it Sony highres+ format? if it's not then full screen mode would not be supported unless software companies uses Garmin's API.

KAY
RE: Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead
Marshall Flinkman @ 3/4/2003 7:14:37 PM #
Re the wishlist--yes, each of those innovations has been done, but no one's combined all (or close) in one device.

RE: Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead
cykalan @ 3/5/2003 5:13:24 AM #
fat_man:
there have actually some sources saying that garmin is using the Sony Hi-res+ API for their devices so that their devices will be instantly compatible with most of the major apps.

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!
RE: Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead
Fat_Man @ 3/5/2003 9:52:06 AM #
Really? Now that will be one cool handheld, if Garmin does use highres+. I'm surprise howeveer, that sony would let them do that, base on their past history.

KAY
RE: Sony Leaves Room for Palm to Jump Ahead
mashoutposse @ 3/5/2003 10:20:10 AM #
Actually, the NZ90 offers everything listed above, except for the 32MB RAM ;)

The Garmin is the size of the silver clamshell CLIEs (and thicker, actually!); I don't think that's the solution most people had in mind.

No Virtual Graffiti No Buy
jbeedham @ 3/5/2003 8:10:19 PM #
No Virtual Graffiti on this one so I will have to pass it up. I think the idea of virtual graffit + keyboard would be a great combo but that may be asking too much for a small device. I will probably hold out for a garmin cause that still looks better than this at this point and if you really want bluetooth garmin is making a unit with bluetooth built in.

-------------------------------------------------------
currently using Palm m125 and waiting for Garmin iQue.

im going to japan next month - should i buy one ?

killah fury @ 3/6/2003 4:06:02 AM #
Hey guys,

I'm UK based and am travelling to Japan next month and am toying with the idea of buying the TG-50... It looks like a mighty fine machine (thogh I, like many others would still prefer a virtual graffiti machine as opposed to the thumb keyboard)

I've got the Sony DSC-FX77 bluetooth digital still camera - i'd love to get these two working together! ;-)

But language wise, will I be able to use it okay do you think? will i be able to use AvantGo and all my existing software fine on it?

RE: im going to japan next month - should i buy one ?
Bleekerstreets @ 3/6/2003 7:16:38 AM #
it should be out everywhere else not too long after the japan release.

RE: im going to japan next month - should i buy one ?
pen_n_paper @ 3/7/2003 1:35:11 AM #
i dunno...it may take a month or two....

----------------------------------------
Join my forums and read my reviews at,
www.pants-onfire.2ya.com
Current reviews,
TT,Zire,NX60/NX70v

Sony TG50 - Official Sony Site and Info (Hong Kong)

donaldekelly @ 3/6/2003 9:13:17 PM #
Sony TG50 - Official Sony Site and Info (Hong Kong)

http://www.sonystyle.com.hk/clie/app/tg50/index.jsp

Official info, more pictures



someone tell me how to add a picture, then I will really scare you all!

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