Comments on: HandEra Ends Palm OS Product Line
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RE: Sad
RE: Sad
There was a time when I dreamed of owning a Handera 550C.
All the 330 needed was to max out the memory, speed, and add a color screen. I would have paid $400-500 for one. But, there it is. Gone.
Alas.
PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
PalmOS is not doomed without Handera and Handspring. Far from it. And Handera was never a major player. Their demise will go unnoticed.
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
Come on, we all knew they weren't really going to come out with another Palm. They had a two year head start and sat on it. First with a high resolution screen, dual expansion, real speaker, and everything Palm OS 5 handhelds are just now getting credit for, while HandEra had it so long ago.
Alright, so anyway, I'll agree all the way that PalmSource needs a new licensee. Enough with these dinky niche players. Great, a watch, an Asian device, lovely, but I want something that competes with Palm and Sony. PS said they were going to announce a new licensee at the developers seminar May 5-6, but I'll guarantee you it'll be another niche player. I mean, they said they were going to announce a major licensee a few months ago and who did announce they licensed? Fossil. Oh, that's colossal.
Right now, Dell would be an awesome licensee. Even Toshiba, at this point. We're too diversified at this point. PalmSource is staving off commoditization, which is good, but the result is no PLAIN device. Where is the OS 5 200 MHz Palm with a 320x480 screen with virtual graffiti? The Z71 may be close, but even that comes with a camera. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who sees it like this, but either way, Palm and Sony aren't enough competition to each other. We need one more. Period.
-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
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RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
Bosco's right, so am I
No, you're not. It's interesting that while Palm "protects" its licensees, it's Pocket PC that's getting big names. Dell, and now JVC(!). Don't ask me how all of them will make $$$, but they all think they can, so have at it!
And now this:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2754
10) Palm will shift its focus to the high-end consumer and businesses, to prop up profits. Sony will address multimedia for consumers, Handspring will go after mainstream consumers with new Springboard-free Palm OS PDAs and its Treo. Newbies and the low-enders will snap up the super-cheap Asian Dragonballed versions. HandEra will get lost in the shuffle.
-- well, I didn't forsee the Zire and its rousing success. And Handspring is doing worse than I expected. Still...
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
Ah, well, it's all academic, isn't it?
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
I have been wondering about this for a while now. are all of these companies willing to lose money (they all have it to spare) in order to make in-roads into a marketspace that they believe will eventually make $$$? maybe their all making $$$ now - though i can't imagine with the PPC marketshare growing so slowly over the last couple of yrs and it being so crowded with big players. By comparison - Palm SG and Sony should be able to rake in cash. Why wouldn't Dell want in on a much bigger marketshare? Hell - they could do both and double their PDA sales within months.
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
This is due in part to the amount of people that may or may not prefer (yet buy) Palm OS products, and also due to so many OEM's in the same market. Dell, HP, Toshiba, are the big three, but there are a bunch of others like ViewSonic. It's all crowded and commoditized. All they need is eMachines to complete the borefest.
Oh, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Mike, don't think you're special because you got a prediction half right because the obvious has happened. ;) Everyone knew HandEra was going to disappear and that HandSpring was taking the wrong path. Sony already did go into multimedia devices... but that Asian Dragonball thing... quite a bit off, man. Hell, I've got no room to talk since I didn't post any official predictions except on the forums, I recall saying time and time again that the Zire was going to be a smash hit, one of the most successful handhelds ever. Haha, guess I'm 100%.
Mitsu****a? That's ****amamy!
-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
I think Apple would be ideal, doubt they want to though-
It would be cool to have a iPod/Palm OS type device, if it could be done. Instead of buying memory cards you would just use the HD.
I would buy one. Could they make a color one to sell for $500 to $600? Maybe, since the iPod costs $400 and the Sony SJ22 costs $200.
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
Opinion: My Predictions for the Palm OS in 2002
Posted By: Ed on Friday, December 28, 2001 8:34:32 AM
-- NONE of that was obvious BACK THEN. Go read the c**p I took over HandEra, especially.
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
And yet they won't *be* profitable if they can't get device feature set to where the consumer wants it. The platform needs PocketPC ilk licensees because the current big names in the platform, can't consistently get the total package right (including all of, software, hardware, API's, SDK's, support, feature set, and price-point).
It's a sad comment on Palm and Sony when I'm far more likely to keep using a now discontinued Palm PDA, then any of their "current" models. A new licensee with their head on straight, would seem to be the only hope I have of staying in this platform. There will come a point when vast application support won't be enough to outweight lack of feature-set, and driver support expansion options.
Not a single PalmOS licensee can boast the expansion support options, in varied and many brands, and price points, with OS level driver support, than HandEra. And browse through handera.com (while it remains up in current form) puts other licensees to shame.
"PalmOS is not doomed without Handera and Handspring. Far from it. And Handera was never a major player. Their demise will go unnoticed."
Only if the licensees are clever enough to continue to use HandEra Services for OEM ideas. Or perhaps only by those, like you, with blinders on who fail to recognize the true roots of the current visible "innovations" by Palm and Sony. The platform likely would not look today, as it does, without HandEra. To give Sony credit for HandEra influenced features is laughable. And that's not even begining to count the stuff that didn't quite make it to being released over the past couple years.
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
yup. sadly it will go unnoticed. just like all their products did. i owned and loved a handera 330 until i broke it and replaced it with a sony sj20 which is definitely nice, and functional for my needs...but i still miss my HE330 sometimes.
what people probably dont realize is the entire handera company was comprised of about 50 people. they made a pretty significant dent in the "palm history books" for being such a small company. like the article says, alot of the things like expansion, dual expansion, software graffiti, etc were ALL done by TRG/HandERA and adopted by sony and palm.
IMO they released a superior B&W device that didnt have enough brand recognition power. theres all those other licensee reasons and whatnot too...ahwell.
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
Thomas
Check out the Palm Tungsten|T review at www.comp-talk.co.uk
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
> market category" during their Developers Seminar in May.
It's probably Garmin.
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
Thomas
Check out the Palm Tungsten|T review at www.comp-talk.co.uk
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
-- education? military? healthcare? toaster oven?
Oh My God! We're finally going to have Red Dwarf's Talkie Toaster!! I have longed to be annoyed minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, by a cute little toaster that CONSTANTLY asks, "Would you like some toast?" (Well, at least it sometimes asks if you'd like a bagel...)
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
http://dimh.strangepursuit.net/list4.html
-- use CTL-F (in MSIE) to search for "Talkie" and you will see the beast for yourself.
RE: PalmSource needs to add a new licensee!!!
i loved that show:)
drawbacks of the HE330
Have to agree with those tho say that the next model of Handera is called the Garmin iQue. It's got the same jog wheel, same redundant power connector, same virtual graffiti API, and on and on. Of the licensees, only Handera has in the past used the same connector design as Palm, and we see it again with the iQue. I just hope they managed to build a machine that won't break if you look at it funny.
Since they're still manufacturing sexy new machines, I don't mourn the loss of Handera as a vendor. Though I do wish they'd gotten a PalmOS 4.0 upgrade out the door first, so that I could use a CF bluetooth card in my machine.
this stinks!
now, i suppose I can get an HE330, but it'll never be supported again and i'd miss color. i'm so peeved! i was really stoked for a color PDA from HandEra. argh!
--------------------------------------
"Well, if it isn't the leader of the wiener patrol, boning up on his nerd lessons"
http://stirwise.com
Bummer
Its a sad thing that they had to give it up
-Pepper
I love my Palm . . . do you?
They did it to themselves
The company was very techie and feature oriented with very poor consumer marketing plus an awful sense of industrial and graphic design on top of it. They never moved out of the abandoned Palm III form factor. The leaked images of the color prototype were some of the ugliest units I ever saw.
This is a computer company that never "got" how to sell to the consumer market. The real market doesn't care if it does XYZ if their friends will frown at the looks of it when they pull it out. Look how cell phones sell now.
I bet there was a meeting over there a year or so ago with some engineering founder there simply refusing to pay $100,000+ to an industrial design firm to make a good looking injection mold case. Now with Sony in on the game, HeadEra is being eaten alive. They are probably still bitching over how much they paid an image consulting firm to change the name to "HandEra."
Thus, only doing OEM units for others makes a lot of sense. They get to cut a lot of support staff for consumer customers and now they only have a few dozen OEM customers that also speak geektalk.
I don't consider this bad at all but more a maturing of the industry. I think HandEra will end up as the Studebaker of the Palm Economy.
RE: They did it to themselves
RE: They did it to themselves
I find that odd because I thought one of PalmSource's recently announced goals was to support a large number of diversely featured devices to a wide variety of markets. I can't remember the exact wording, but I think it was in a press release. Apparently they are now only interested in the big players who can pony up a ton of cash.
RE: They did it to themselves
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: They did it to themselves
RE: They did it to themselves
oh come on! Then why the hell are they no longer making Palm OS devices? This is the real world kiddies - Handera was - like most busineses - trying to make $$$. Its not a question them being "quite happy to sell a few thousand units to a niche market" - thats the only market they could compete in because they simply did not have the $$$ & resources to market this to the average consumer. Like most small companies - they hoped that this 'niche market' that they played in would yield enough profit to go for a bigger market share. Honestly - they made great devices (and i appreciate that) but if they weren't able to make a go of it, then there are 3 possible reasons why: 1) their marketing people sucked 2) they misjudged there ability to succesfully market to consumers with as little $$$ as they had OR 3) the average Palm OS buying consumer simply didn't want the features they were selling. Personally - i don't think their marketing people sucked - i think their marking people were invisible (reason #2). That and - a little of #3 - if people other than geeks were really screaming for CF we'd see Palm SG units with CF. Not that a significant enough amount of people don't want this (we may yet see it in a PalmOS device from somebody) but it clearly takes a backseat to other features as far as consumers are concerned.
Well, at least it's better to know
Frankly, with this development Palm and its followers can pretty much kiss the "enterprise market" goodbye. The Palm OS platforms have been seriously lacking expansion capability, which is the cornerstone of specialty system integration. SDIO stinks for small quantity production; Springboards were great, CF was more difficult but still doable for small (<1000) projects.
While I'm already saying too much, I have a military contract whose long-term success depended on a not-finished development of a CF interface card for the HandEra 330. That's obviously history now. I will get paid for the work, but without the interface it's going to become shelfware.
RE: Well, at least it's better to know
Frankly, it's looking like it's time for my business to de-commit from Palm OS and bite the bullet with a transition to PocketPC if it expects to have any future. Thanks to Sony changing the playing field every two months, Palm OS hardware world has proven too flaky for even a one-year business plan, and that's no way to run a railroad.
RE: Well, at least it's better to know
> of reach of small innovators and independents.
Yep. It really seemed like HandEra basically sat on an OS 4 upgrade for the 330 that was essentially ready for release. The only real reason I can see for it is that the price PalmSource wanted was out of reach. I did see a post elsewhere where someone thought the number of individual device licenses PalmSource is requiring was something huge. That would also fit with eliminating small innovators and independents. Hard to say for sure without knowing all the facts.
RE: Well, at least it's better to know
RE: Well, at least it's better to know
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Well, at least it's better to know
RE: Well, at least it's better to know
Of course not completely, but if you look at the facts and HandEra's press release they point far more to the licensing than anything else.
RE: Well, at least it's better to know
*sob* :'(
Good bye HE :-'(
RE: *sob* :'(
Is there more than one card that works with it?
RE: *sob* :'(
Drivers are so close to being GM. They will cost $27, but they have full read/write capabilities and work with Audio Player, Movie Player, Voice Recorder, and Movie Recorder. Well worth the $27, if you ask me. Just think of all the money you'll save buying a 1 GB Microdrive for $200, plus $27 for the drivers than a $640 MSPro. Hell, buy three Microdrives and you'd still have quite a bit of change left.
-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: *sob* :'(
RE: *sob* :'(
I find it odd the high number of clie owners that simply don't get it. But I guess even the market for flashy, half implemented, proprietary, here now, gone tomorrow devices needs to be served. Good thing we've got Sony for that.
RE: *sob* :'(
Another Palm that fully supports CF?
well, you may be waiting quite a while...
Cost increases associated with licensing?
Like other people does not need to pay. Yeah right, we are never suck. Someone else does it to me.
Thank god that a loser is gone. But, will anyone admit fault? No. It was due to the higher license fee, not that we suck. Keep thinking that way and you will never figure out why Sony can sell things above $500.
I rather hear HandEra said, we quit because we suck in designing a product that customers want, not what we want to make. We suck because we like ugly PDA. We REALLY REALLY suck when we put in many new features and STILL have no sell.
RE: Cost increases associated with licensing?
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Cost increases associated with licensing?
Uh, if you actually read HandEra's press release, they are apparently almost sold out of all their devices. They've sold everything they made.
Sony sells in very low numbers at $500+. Nearly all the devices they sell are low-end models, same for Palm. So I suppose if you wanted to argue that HandEra needed a high volume device to keep paying for their licenses ... ah forget it, you just want to say the word "suck".
RE: Cost increases associated with licensing?
Well, DUH!!
Of course they have apparently almost sold out... the HandEra was like almost 3 years old. The question is when did they stop producing them.
KAY
RE: Cost increases associated with licensing?
RE: Cost increases associated with licensing?
Why do you seem to despise Handera so much?
Thanks, robrecht
RE: Cost increases associated with licensing?
I don't "despise" HandEra. What I dislike is that all you HandEra loyalist are trying to blame everyone except HandEra for their current condition. "It's the palm license fee..." "It's big bad Sony..." "It's the planetary alignment..." Blah blah blah
Could it be that HandEra's demise is because they could not compete?
KAY
RE: Cost increases associated with licensing?
RE: Cost increases associated with licensing?
Glad to hear that you do not despise Handera. It seemed to me as if you were unfairly denigrating the contributions of HandEra in referring to their dead-end technology. If I'm a Handera loyalist, it's only because I admire some of their innovative engineering with the Palm OS that in some particulars is still superior to what is being done by SONY or Palm. Their service to some vertical markets has indeed been noteworthy. I also think Palm OS would be better served by keeping them as a key engineering player if only as a consultant.
Thanks, robrecht
I knew it!!
About a month ago, I posted that HandEra was all dead-end technology which turned out to be exactly what they are: DEAD-END!!
Boy, all of the flames from these HandEra fanatics I got then, you would've thought that I spit into their bible or something...
While HandEra did developed some interesting technologies, they never got picked-up by anyone else. Their fate was inevitable.
Yea, yea... flame me all you like. The fact remain that HandEra Palm OS mechines are dead.
Peace out!!
KAY
RE: I knew it!!
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: I knew it!!
Check over at Cliesource
A third party developer has developed a diver that will allow ascess to the Sony's NX/NZ compact flash slot to accept flash memory.
KAY
RE: I knew it!!
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: I knew it!!
Like I stated, HandEra had some interesting technologies, I'm not denying that, but no-one else picked it up, and that's their downfall.
Well, if you want to talk about support out-of the box. The Palm tungsten did not have mp3 support nor did they have any file manager software to ascess their SD expansion.
KAY
RE: I knew it!!
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: I knew it!!
It's not that big a deal. It's all the non-memory CF cards that are the big deal, and Clie users still have no access to them. Nor would it appear will any new users to the PalmOS market now.
Dark days for PalmOS until PalmSource and the licensees wake up and get it. Either PocketPC will grow to fill the vacume or SD/SDIO will pick up the pace. Either way it could be a couple years of wait and see.
The platform is a mess. And a lot of developers will be taking stock of things to decide future direction of projects.
What joe consumer doesn't understand is how they benefit from the dollars of Enterprise and Industry infusion to the platform. It doesn't get press, nor would they want it. But the benefits to the platform from their interest and investment trickles down even to the Zire and Clie owners. Dry up that presence with the expansion chaos, lack of extensible meat and potatoes feature set, and replace it with glitzy fluff that *only* a consumer is happy with, and the PalmOS as a whole will suffer as they move to other platforms for their use.
And I think the surface of that has been scratched with some of the developer comments above.
Even if you're a Clie owner this is a bad news item.
RE: I knew it!!
More *were* picked up than weren't.
-In 1999 it was introducing support for standard expansion media
-a real speaker, and playing DTMF tones through it, and native .wav files from the expansion media.
-2 years ago is was voice recording, high-res with virtual graffity and landscape mode.
-swappable lithium-ion packs
-a separate DC 12 volt port
-dual media expansion
-Wifi support that still is unmatched with any other licensee
Some of those have just recently been adopted here and there in OS5 devices. But you can't find another PalmOS PDA with ALL the features that the HandEra 330 had for so long, without looking to PocketPC hardware. In fact two years ago the HandEra 330 was the only PalmOS PDA whose hardware had any credibility against the average PocketPC model. Most of the HandEra 330 features are taken for granted on the average dual slot PocketPC today.
And yet there remains no other PalmOS PDA with the demise of the TrgPro and HandEr 330 that can use (with built in driver support for):
-More than 7 brands of WiFi cards
-More than 9 brands of 10BaseT and 100BaseT CF ethernet cards
-More than 5 brands of 56K modem cards
-CDPD cards
-More than 6 brands of GPS cards
-Bacode scanners in Wand, Laser Scanner varieties (apart from Symbols's built in PDA models)
-More than 4 brands of RS-232 port cards
-Magnetic card stripe readers
RE: I knew it!!
RE: I knew it!!
RE: I knew it!!
Dark day? Come-on! Aren't you giving HandEra too much importance? You make it sound like HandEra's demise is the fall of the Roman Empire or something. HandEra is such a small player in the Palm OS community, and recently with OS 5, they're not even in the game. HandEra's death is like a tiny bug on the windshield.
">More *were* picked up than weren't.
>-In 1999 it was introducing support for standard >expansion media
>-a real speaker, and playing DTMF tones through it, >and native .wav files from the expansion media.
>-2 years ago is was voice recording, high-res with >virtual graffity and landscape mode.
>-swappable lithium-ion packs
>-a separate DC 12 volt port
>-dual media expansion
>-Wifi support that still is unmatched with any other >licensee
You make it sound like that if HandEra didn't do the things above that no one else would. You know being the first to do something does not mean that it's the best way to do something. Classic example is HandEra's high resolution scheme. Palm OS 5 decided to go with 320x320 which pretty much screw HandEra, maybe that's one of the resons t why they couldn't release an OS 5 handheld.
KAY
RE: I knew it!!
By the way, for home I have an SJ30 and an M515. But if I get on a plan I take my HE330.
Did we read that right?
RE: Did we read that right?
... oops, Sharp's already been there. But you can't buy it in the US...
http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/sla300/
... just another reason for HANDERA to do it!
RE: Did we read that right?
RE: Did we read that right?
SL-A300: 2.7" x 4.4" x 0.5" 4.2 oz
hp 1910: 2.75" x 4.46" x 0.5" - 4.23 oz
-- man, makes the m5xxs and the TT seem like BRICKS!
RE: Did we read that right?
RE: Did we read that right?
RE: Did we read that right?
That'd be amusing - After all the heavy lifting they've put into the PalmOS (First the OS extensions they wrote for CF/.wav support on the TRGPro, then the screen resoulutions and such...) I'm sure it kind of stings to have PalmSource tell them they can't even use their own (Contributed) code anymore.
I'm wondering idly if PalmSource is overpricing the OS3.5/4 licences in an attempt to drive people on into OS5/6?
Graffiti2?
PPC Licence
RE: PPC Licence
Shortcomings:
- no SDIO
- no serial in bottom connector (hence no keyboards!)
- lousy stylus (give us a TT-like stylus!)
And, of course, they'll have to spend some $$$ for a *real* designer. None of this ugh-leeee H330 nonsense.
RE: PPC Licence
RE: PPC Licence
RE: PPC Licence
It is PPC
I have trouble reading Chinese characters.
Mio's marketing campaign has a picture of a fat caveman (probably the Chinese perception of an American) and reads: I don't want fat (pronounced Pang) and I don't want Palm. Compared to other PPC units, it's a sleek design. Too bad working with a PPC is a pain to work with, because I'd learn to read Chinese to use it.
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