Comments on: Rumor: Upcoming Palm Tungsten X and Zire 22 Details
A reliable source has provided PalmInfocenter with some new details on Palm's upcoming fall handheld releases. Info on a Tungsten X and Zire 22 has shown up in the internal inventory system of a large electronics retail company. Read on for more details.
Article Comments
(176 comments)
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.
RE: TX sounds good!
Some of the shortcomings of the TX are noteable, but the $299 price point is a good one. I was on the verge of getting a Pocket PC to replace my fading Clie. If I can wait until October for this TX it will help me to avoid abandoning my beloved Palm OS.
With two forms of wireless, synching wirelessley should help to avoid connector problems.
Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50
RE: TX sounds good!
Ok, the loss of the internal storage drive is NOT a big deal. Palm has to plan these things waaaay ahead of time. By the time they got, say, a 512mb "drive" device to market, 2gb SD cards will be close to $100. By the time Palm gets a 1 or 2gb flash drive model to market, 4gb SD cards will be ~$150.
Palm's better off letting the SD flash card market act on its own and just make sure that there's a minimum of 64mb of RAM onboard midrange & highend units. I have NO quarrels with their strategy on this T|X.
There's plenty of room on the top panel of the T5 to add a small microphone for voice recording. Even if they cannot shoehorn a dedicated VR button for it, you could reprogram one of the bottom app hard buttons or just activate it via a stylus stroke. No biggie---I can live w/o a dedicated VR or screen rotate button. Just give us the mic & audio capture hardware!
Similarly, the power buton with the green paint mark on it can easily be replaced by a power button with a glowing green LED to indicate charge status.
Garnet 5.4.9 SHOULD, by all counts, be quit a bit more stable and (hopefully) speedier than older Garnet revisions. Frankly, the T5 performs slower than its 416mhz CPU would indicate. I think that with careful software optimizations for NVFS, the performance issue might end up being a negligable point unless you're REALLY doing some heavy-duty fullscreen video playback.
I've yet to have any major problems with the Athena connector on my T5. Now the T5's cradle is another story but I'd imagine they will get around to designing something that lets the T5 & LD sit more securely anyway...
If the build quality is anywhere CLOSE to the LifeDrive (folks, the LD really IS solidly assembled!) then I can live with a plastic body. Just keep that price at $300 MAX and ENSURE there are no major showstopping bugs in the shipping product and Palm'll have a short-term winner on their hands.
Count me in as an upgrader...it might end up being my last Palm device but I will give this one a shot.
RE: TX sounds good!
T3 & T5 user
RE: TX sounds good!
Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50
RE: TX sounds good!
--------------------
Gaurav
RE: TX sounds good!
The real issue is "have they fixed the OS"? If it's the same mess the Lifedrive is, then who cares what price it sells at.
I hope this means the LD will get updated to 5.4.9 soon. If they don't fix it, I'm never buying another Palm again.
RE: TX sounds good!
pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55 & Handera 330
RE: TX sounds good!
Pen and Paper -> Palm Personal -> Palm Personal -> Palm III -> Palm -IIIx -> M120 -> Handera 330 -> M120 -> Zire71 -> ?
RE: TX sounds good!
mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: TX sounds good!
Also, when is that USB on the go box coming out (if ever)? You know, the thing that was shown on PDAMExico's site that permits any digi cam that is recognized as a mass storage device to pug straight into the LifeDrive and dump picture onto the Microdrive via Camera Companion?
RE: TX sounds good!
Lets shoot for 100% WIFI hotsynch and an induction charger.
Simon
No more NAND storage for internal volume?!
So does this mean there will only be 128MB of NVFS without any internal volume? That would be a change from the T5 ram setup. I was hoping that Palm might use a 512 or 1GB Nand chip and use 128MB as ram and the rest as internal volume perhaps? With so many Nand based mp3 players out there now like the iPod Nano etc, I would have hoped Palm would have increased the storage capacity on these devices by now...
--------------------
Gaurav
RE: No more NAND storage for internal volume?!
No way of knowing at this stage how the NVRAM will be partitioned between the virtual db cache and the internal volume. Or how much SDRAM will be on board for that matter. I'm sure there'll be plenty of confusion though. :-)
RE: No more NAND storage for internal volume?!
RE: No more NAND storage for internal volume?!
--------------------
Gaurav
Hmmm
Sure this thing has 128MB of RAM... but I have over 1GB in my T3. Yeah this comes with Wifi... but I have a Wifi SDIO card.
And I bet there's no way to run G1 on it even though this is the faster and preferred input method for a huge chunk of the established Palm community. I don't care if G2 is the default... just give us a way to choose G1.
Would it be nice to have the extra on-board RAM and the integrated Wifi? Sure. But it's not worth what you'd have to give up. 3 steps forward, but 10 steps back.
Please, Palm: give us a device to be proud of that meets the needs of the power users. Our T3s aren't going to run forever...
RE: Hmmm
If you're really that unhappy with Palm and the devices they put out, look for another solution. Obviously by sticking with Palm, you're going to be continually disappointed.
RE: Hmmm
This is also not my first Palm, but my third, having started with a Vx and then an M505 before the T3. Likewise, many friends and family have Palms now, because of me.
It would seem in your world, anyone who is on-board as a user of a certain company's technology has to be a pure fanboy who blindly thinks everything they do is "great" and "perfect" eh? Sorry, Microsoft has enough of them. I'm not like that. I am a Palm fan, but they are not perfect and they are making a lot of mistakes lately. However, unlike you, my attitude is to not be a quitter and jump ship... I detest the alternatives out there a lot more than I am frustrated with the direction Palm is heading these days.
If a good friend of mine gets a drug problem, I don't abandon them and find a new friend. I confront them about their problem in the hopes they can see the light, turn things around, and things can go back to being positive between us. Likewise, this is how I am treating Palm. Instead of silently ditching them and leaving them oblivious of why they're losing customers, I'm sticking around but being vocal.
And I do believe there's nothing in the PIC rules that say that we have to praise every single product Palm produces and worship the scrap plastic they walk on.
The fact is, Palm has abandoned a certain market they used to provide product for. Those of us in that market would like something to upgrade to. It's been a few years now. It's a fact that 2 years ago, the top of the line Palm exceeded the TX in many indisputable ways. In TWO YEARS, we should see more clear-cut evolutionary PROGRESS... not a REDUCTION in MHz, a REDUCTION in features, and LOWER QUALITY case materials.
If YOU think my specific facts and points are invalid and would like to elaborate on why you feel so, that's one thing. However, if you're just going to throw blanket criticism about how I'm just a complainer and should go away, than you're no better than the supposed complainer you accuse me of being.
http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/
RE: Hmmm
HUH? So what? That's expansion card vs Ram (NVFS whatever). Completely different. Plus if the Tx has FAT32, you'll be able to use >>2GB SD card anyway, not to mention any possible Nand storage...
>>>>And I bet there's no way to run G1 on it....
For for gawd sakes!! Give it a rest all you G1 fanboys! ARHH...
>>>>Would it be nice to have the extra on-board RAM and the integrated Wifi? Sure. But it's not worth what you'd have to give up. 3 steps forward, but 10 steps back.
*sigh* what a bunch of BS. Wifi, more ram, BT 1.2 (with A2DP and HID support for things like BT headphones), NVFS and it's still not worth is cuz you miss your silly G1 and metal case?!!
--------------------
Gaurav
RE: Hmmm
The T5 design/ergonomics are the best ever seen in a handheld. I am very happy Palm has decided to stick with a winning design and build on it.
- 312 mhz is usually plenty and good for battery life, else it can be overclocked.
I doubt (because of the low price) there is a camera and a mic, but you never know. The T3 design was good but the slider was bad.
RE: Hmmm
Sounds to me like they might include some sort of baseline TealScript functionality into the control panel where the user can select certain strokes as multi or single strokes.
Barring that, someone can HOPEFULLY hack the T|T G1 libraries one final time to get G1 on this (and future FrankenGarnet) devices.
For the record, and gfunk and I discussed this the other day, 2gb SD cards (generics) are $120ish online nowadays. That's certain to hit $100 by Christmas.
RE: Hmmm
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there on that one. The m500 series was by FAR the paradigm of the classic PDA. Small, light, metal body, (fairly) durable and it felt GREAT in the hand. Add to that the side rails for attaching a case and you have a winning design. The T|E and its variants have aped the classic V and m500 design but with only minimal success--I feel the bottom flare is crucial, as is a metal body (or at least a metal bezel w/ plastic backplate).
2nd place goes to the sadly short-lived Visor Edge. All it needed was 2x the RAM, a color screen and an SD slot. It was the RAZR of its time and no one even noticed...
RE: Hmmm
Notice how the T5 casing is so strong, it does not even bend a bit when applying pressure on the dpad.
That pressure can be very high when playing an intense game of MicroQuad. LOL
I can't wait for this TX. :)
RE: Hmmm
Yep. I can store ANY type of file on the expansion card, vs only PRCs and PDBs on the internal memory.
"For for gawd sakes!! Give it a rest all you G1 fanboys! ARHH..."
How exactly does the fact that some people work faster in G1 (what Palm originally raised us on) than G2 affect YOU? How exactly would making an option in preferences so that the user could switch to G1 ruin the life of a G2 "fanboy"? Please explain. Fact is, lots of us work MUCH faster in G1 than G2. If you can't accept or understand that, that's your problem. I'm content to accept YOU work faster with G2. But don't force your G2 on the rest of us who have learned something faster and would like to continue with it. We're not trying to force G1 upon YOU, only have it be an OPTION for US, thanks.
"it's still not worth is cuz you miss your silly G1 and metal case?!!"
It's hard to respect having an intellectual talk with someone who resorts to stuff like that. But I'll feed the troll tonight... if you can't value the benefits of a metal case, obviously you haven't owned enough of them and have given-in to the brainwashing of manufacturers that plastic is "good enough". Hint: my CELL PHONE has a REAL metal case too, and it's no accident.
If you can't understand why anyone on the planet could possibly find anything better than G2 for input and that G2 is god's gift to all PDAs, then you're just being plain childish. FACT: G1 is faster for a lot of people. FACT: G1 was the default Palm input method for FAR more years than G2. FACT: Palm did NOT switch to G2 because it was FASTER than G1. FACT: No one is asking you to give up G2, so chill.
And you totally avoided that the T3, while 2 years older, is 28% FASTER than the TX. And that a vibrating alarm is CRITICAL not only for the corporate customer but for many other people who simply don't wish to always be disturbing those around us with our electronic gadgets. Next time you hear someone's cell phone obnoxiously ring in the movie theater I want you to consider how you disregarded the importance of a vibrating alert.
VampireLestat: "The T5 design/ergonomics are the best ever seen in a handheld."
I agree there. I think the form-factor and overall physical design (aside from the plastic case) of the T5/TX is nice. They just need to take the T3 features as a BARE MINIMUM and choose a bunch to improve upon (given 2 years of R&D evolution). Without backing off any of the features present in the T3, because there's no need, no reason, and no excuse for it.
Although I have to agree with hkklife that I think the V form-factor was even better (having owned a Vx for a long while).
"312 mhz is usually plenty and good for battery life, else it can be overclocked."
I don't know about you, but I've bogged down my 400MHz T3 on occasion. Maybe if we were still within a few months of the release of the T3 it'd be appropriate to release another supposed "top of the line" PDA that was SLOWER. But not after a full year... and certainly not after TWO. CPU R&D has just progress FAR too much to make that valid. If we extended that logic we'd all be forced to be content with 1GHz systems on our desktops, and next year they'd try to sell us on a brand-new 800MHz system. Heh
RE: Hmmm
Ble....get over dude. G1 is dead and so is Elvis. Stop harping on useless nonsense. It's not coming back. REPEAT. IT IS NOT COMING BACK. Now go get a cookie or something... *YIKES*
--------------------
Gaurav
RE: Hmmm
Love that line.
Zodiac2/T616/WiFi'd
RE: Hmmm
Gekko, in fairness, nothing performs perfectly when dropped on a hard stone surface. I once accidently bobbled my m505 and dropped it on a slate surface, resulting in small dents and chips on the bezel. I've also seen a plastic-cased Dell Axim (one of the old X3s) that met a concrete parking lot without protection. No dents, but lots of chips in the plastic.
I can certainly understand the desire for a metal case, and I even agree that a high-end device really should have one, but even metal isn't indestructible.
RE: Hmmm
RE: Hmmm
Allegedly, metal constricts wireless performance more than plastic. I love the aluminum over plastic skin on my T3, but when she has hit the concrete that pretty case now has a perfect impression of the concrete finishers art. I perfer metal, but it's not a deal killer. I actually loved using an m100 for a while, light and super durable with a good thin integrated flip cover. Just paralyzed with that tiny screen and low mem.
Best Form:
V & m5xx are both tough as nails, attractive and great with the dual rails. But, one thing that I am glad is left behind is the width. They are just too wide to be comfortable in a normal sized hand IMO. The T3 has the same hourglass shape, but handles much much better for me. Maybe for NBA players it is not a problem, but it was for me.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Hmmm
I did. Slight scratch on top right corner. Have to look REAL close to tell it's not metal. I wouldn't recommend dropping your T5, but mine came through alright.
I just don't understand the whole metal/plastic debate.
Metal cases are better than plastic cases.
I did. Slight scratch on top right corner. Have to look REAL close to tell it's not metal. I wouldn't recommend dropping your T5, but mine came through alright.
I just don't understand the whole metal/plastic debate.
It all depends on construction quality. Old Palms/TRGs had well-constucted plastic cases that were durable with their integrated flip lids. But as good as these are, they can't hold a candle to high quality METAL cases like the magnesium alloy case in the CLIE UX50. I've dropped my UX50 onto floors, concrete and pavement probably 20 times in the past 2 years (don't drink and Palm, Kiddies!) and have carried it around in pockets + bags the whole time as well. The case still looks NEW other than a 2 mm gouge sustained after a 10 foot drop onto some rocks on a local trail. At first each time I would pick it up gingerly after a fall, open it up and be SHOCKED to find everything working perfectly. NOW when I drop it I EXPECT everything will be fine. Magnesium cases make you c0cky as he11... ;-O
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: Hmmm
I personally had that problem on my Pilot 1000, Palm Pilot Pro, and a IIIc. My IIIe lost the bottom half of the screen's digitizer instead of having cracking plastic. I had to wrap tape around my stylus to keep it securely in the silo due to the wiggling strip of cracked plastic.
So compared to THOSE days, the quality of plastics on low-end PDAs has improved somewhat. That said, I still prefer metal cases, plain & simple. There was just no going back after going to a Palm V from the III series. The m500 did a nice job--metal front bezel with plastic back panel to save $ and weight. The LifeDrive seems to have a similar construction. If Palm keeps on sticking harddrives into their units, aluminum will become important for heat dissipation.
Question for the M$ faithful: Has there ever been a metal-clad WinCE/PPC/WinMob handheld?
RE: Hmmm
I think the 41xx & 19xx iPaqs had that beautiful form factor in at least the front portion in aluminum. Wasn't Toshiba's thin model aluminum. More recently, the new Toshiba (blue) is too I think. Also, HPs massive 4700 is magnesium I believe, not to mention the Pocket Loox which looks it, but I;ve never handled. Oh yeh, those later Jornadas with the built in flip lid were aluminum too, but what a stupid waste of frontal area on that form factor.
... corrections welcome.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Hmmm
Palm COULD make that (metal casings) a hallmark of the Tungsten & LifeDrive lines going forward. Since the WinMob units keeep getting chunkier and chunkier, a metal-bodied, dual wireless 320*480 modernized PalmV could still work wonder for the public perception of Palm.
Fantastic - if this was 2001
Now, it's just about ok. But nothing special. How about doing something truly impressive, like a gig or two of ram, or a decent camera ?
Nonsense... have you seen rumored specs of iPAQ rx1950?
For that same price, the Tx sound alot better imo with dual wireless, more ram and higher rez screen...
--------------------
Gaurav
RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
Surur
RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
What are you talking about? At $300 price point, this is a midrange pda for palm. The LD is obviously the high end. Besides, I can't personally justify >>$300 bucks for a pda these days anyway. Those days are loooong gone imo and the market for high end pricey handhelds is very miniscule...
--------------------
Gaurav
RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
I have two big concerns.
1. Will it work? Palm's lastest efforts have been bad. The LifeDrive and T5 simply had problems.
2. Will it have the battery life of the TE2 or near that? That would be stellar.
I have been hearing that Palm was not redoing their Zire 72 and looking a lot at an Axim X50v or its replacement. I have been hoping that Dell would offer a sub-$400 VGA model with a camera. If this model has all the above post projects, I might wait until FITALY supports it and it has a few months without major problems and some discount of the list price. I am not in a hurry. I would still like a multi-tasking, real file supporting, graphics working OS, but, to my great surprise I might go for yet another Palm even without that if this model pans out well.
RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
Still, HP has been radically overpricing and under-specing some of their recent models (See the rz1715, for instance) so I wouldn't be entirely shocked if they wanted $300 for that. In this market, they shouldn't be charging more than $200 for those specs. Hell, the Axim X30 used to run $260 for 624 MHz, 64 MB/64 MB, WiFi, and Bluetooth. You really shouldn't look at HP for cutting-edge hardware: they prefer to sell well back from the sharp part, relying on their name brand and retail presence to move units.
Timothy, Dell isn't going to do anything with a camera. They prefer to stay away from the cameras, because they want to make a device that can be used in workplaces that ban cameras. Besides which, they see it as something of an unneccessary feature that doesn't really add to the usefulness of the device. If you really want an Axim with a camera, you can always get a Veo 130S SDIO camera card. It's 1.3 MP, and from what I've seen actually takes very good quality shots.
RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
I agree. HP relies A LOT on their brand name to make up for selling less than stellar products. I changed over to the X30h when the T5 came out, and upgraded to the X50v when the LD came out. I'm way past the learning curve on PPC, and can use it well. My wife on the other hand, never really developed a liking of PPC, and still hangs on to her Z2. At first, when I read the title of this thread, I thought, GREAT, Palm is coming out with an awesome new PDA. My personal favorite Palm of ALL TIME was my m515, and this looked a lot like that one. But, as many have pointed out, there are a lot of things lacking on this pda in comparison with specs from competing pdas, and I don't think I'll be swithing back anytime soon. My wife, on the other hand, will probably LOVE the Tx, so we'll see.
All good things...
digg this story on digg.com to help get the news out!
http://digg.com/hardware/Palm_to_introduce_Tungsten_X_and_Zire_22_on_October_11th.
This tell more people about this and promote palminfocenter.com. i bet that if we got it enough diggs someone would post a real picture of the device? HMMM? ;)
RE: digg this story on digg.com to help get the news out!
-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Why no GPS?
GPS is hot right now. As other people have said, these units only match the specifications of PPC's from two years ago. These days built-in GPS is a major feature, and attract a whole different class of buyer. Palm is not leading, its not even keeping up. They need to run to keep standing still.
Surur
RE: Why no GPS?
http://www.brighthand.com/article/FCC_Approves_iPAQ_rx1950?site=PPC
--------------------
Gaurav
RE: Why no GPS?
Dont forget, the whole future of POS depends on the ONE OEM, Palm, to produce the whole line, whereas there are tens of models of PPC's serving all niches being released all the time.
Surur
RE: Why no GPS?
I know that 300MZ is not the 624MZ you can get in that X50v, but it doesn't need it. If this model gets the kind of battery life that flash memory brought to the TE2, it will put all those MZ offered by the competition to shame.
I would still love to have TextMaker, PocketArtist and a full featured browser, but those are not part of the actual PDA. Comparing hardware to hardware, the only thing this TX lacks to compete at the high end is the price. Since when is having a $450 pricetag just to have one considered coving the market. Other than the processor, what is this missing?
RE: Why no GPS?
Surur
RE: Why no GPS?
1) I'd use the PDA a lot more often than I'd use the GPS in it, and so would regret the weight.
2) GPSes embedded into other devices are whimpier than pure GPS devices. I'd rather have a good PDA and a good GPS than both.
3) GPS eats batteries.
I think the 'trendy' GPSes are the ones that go in cellphones as a requirement of E911. They are, for the most part, not particularly good GPSes.
Marty Fouts
Lead Linux Lizard
PalmSource Core Technology Department
RE: Why no GPS?
You have your personal preferences, but this is the current fashion, and Palm is not competing currently in this game.
Surur
RE: Why no GPS?
RE: Why no GPS?
1) Palm sells 80+% of POS handhelds, and probably even more now.
2) If they want POS to serve all the handheld niches Palm will have to be the one to do it.
3) They are neglecting an important are which has been proven to sell add significantly to the saleability of PDA's
Of course there are other ways to get GPS, some even better, such as bluetooth GPS (thats what I have) but many PPC producers have found selling devices with built-in GPS (which is less intimidating to newbies) have given them a huge leg-up in sales.
GPS is the new WIFI. Your arguments sound the same as the arguments which said built-in WIFI is unnecessary.
If not the tungsten X, then they should sell at least ONE device with GPS built-in. To sell NONE is slow suicide.
(Yes, I know about Garmin)
Surur
RE: Why no GPS?
Who needs a PDA?
RE: Why no GPS?
RE: Why no GPS?
RE: Why no GPS?
My company has done some custom GIS software projects recently for very low-end Java-enabled phones with built-in GPS and I was astounded at how well the GPS receivers in these sub-$100 devices worked. They acquired the satellites much faster and with the same accuracy as my Garmin eTrex receiver. The only way I can account for this is that they use a technology called AGPS (A for "assisted") which somehow supplements the standard GPS with triangulation from the nearest cell towers.
I'm amazed that Nextel is the only company to date that has thought providing an open API to the GPS on the phone was a good idea. It's given Nextel a big edge over the competition (despite their limited network) when it comes to a lot of corporate deployments. Wonder if we'll see Sprint following suit now that their acquisition of Nextel is complete.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Why no GPS? - GPS now standard on Loox PPC's
As I've said, the Palm PDA line-up can not be called cutting edge if it does not even have a GPS model. Fujitsu Siemens Corp has once again justified their Sony like position of building the best high-end PPC's by adding greater value to their PDA line-up with GPS.
Their top-of-the-range model will apparently have 128Mb RAM, 256MB Flash ROM, Wifi G, Bluetooth, GPS and a VGA screen. Its not going to cost $300, but then they have added the features to justify their $600 price.
They say PDA's are dead, but if everyone just continue to churn out the same reheated model then they are sure to die. Its ambitious companies like FSC who push the envelope which keep PDA's alive.
What will be Palm's response?
Surur
RE: Camera?
Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50
RE: Camera?
PDAs are DEAD anyway
WIFI/Bluetooth connected or not - PDAs are DEAD. Why? Because people are starting to figure out that there's no reason to buy/manage/charge/carry/sync/fight/fumble with 2+ devices when ONE Smartphone can do it all.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
The difference is staggering. You have like more than 2X the movie frame real estate.
I like my 320x480 screen, it gives me room to see things properly (movies, Excel, Word, ebooks, games).
With the rumoured specs, I am buying a TX.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Vampire - I watch my movies on TVs and movie screens - not 3" PDA screens.
320x320 accomplishes everything you need in order to get real work done.
If you want to play, get a Game Boy or PSP.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
You are trying to argue that a 12" TV is better than a 20" TV...
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Vampire - but having my data with me 24/7 without looking like a nerd lugging around multiple devices on a batman belt is more important to me than a little extra screen real estate.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Actually, I think PDA phones are great, but I don't want one. I prefer two devices that are each great at what they do. I have a PDA with a large screen and many capabilites tucked away in one pocket, and the RAZR that it connects through tucked discreetly in the other. They are best friends. On Friday night, I take the phone and leave the PDA home. I think using a bulky PDA phone looks just as dorky as having two devices on your Batman belt.
Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Regardless, I want a 320x480 screen. If my Tungsten has BT, WiFi, WiMax and a cell phone transmitted all built into the back and barely makes it thicker, I am all for it. :)
But as a consumer, I want that 320x480 screen.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
PDAs are different than cell phones. The features and requirements are different enough and conflict enough that cellphones won't replace PDAs any more than spoons replaced forks. PDAs need to be large enough to be useful for the wide range of applications people run on them. Cell phones need to be small enough to comfortably hold to the face. I loan out my cell phone, I'd never loan out my PDA (there's FAR too much more critical info and apps on my PDA). If I'm going on certain trips, I won't even risk bringing my PDA... but I'll still bring my cell phone for safety. Cell phones work best with physical keys, while most people find they can make due with a full touch-screen of a PDA. The list goes on and on...
Just because two electonic gadgets share SOME common features doesn't mean they practically CAN and SHOULD be converged. Do I think the Treo shouldn't exist? Of course it should, if there's a market. But what I don't believe is that "PDAs are DEAD". That's just an absurd statement on the calibre of some zombie marketing droid trying to spin customer perception in whatever direction will pocket his company the most cash.
I could converge a moped and a snowblower too, I mean, they both have an engine, wheels, a seat, need to be driven around... and wouldn't people like to only have 1 thing instead of 2? Heh
http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
One of the all time stupidest comments ever posted. I am so sick of that SSS SLOP I can't stand it. I went from a Sony NR70V to these two Palm Zire 70s and have regretted that stupid SSS every day. I try to use the PDA in the dark, but can't because the entry area is not lit up. I try to see any reasonable amount of text or view a nice picture and all I get is eye strain and a tiny window into a small part of what I have been used to seeing.
Decide for yourself all you want, but leave the rest of us to make our own choices about "everything *WE PERSONALLY* need in order to get real work done."
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
"converged moped and snowblower..." hahahahaha good one :D
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
I could have an Orange SPV M2000 from work. But I like having a phone and a PDA. Different people have solutions that work for them.
I just wish my T3 had Wi-Fi. The Wi-Fi card is just a pain. Mine just died!
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Two Palm OS smartfones will have 320x480 this fall. Take your pick and everyone's happy:
Treo 800g (GPS included)
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800big.jpg
Samsung i733 (Cingular)
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/samsungi733.JPG
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Anti-Thumboard
I used to be Anti-Thumboard, Pro-Graffiti but after using the Treo 650 for a few weeks, I realize how efficient and easy/intuitive/ergonomic a good thumboard is. I would rather have 320x320 with thumboard than 480x320 without.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
And for the last time, nonwireless PDAs are dead. Connected PDAs are all that you will want from this point out, whether BT, BT/wifi, bt/wifi/gps, or cellualar that are your options. SO suck it up and get connected (one device or two) and join the fray.
mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
The i733 is all you'll need. I heard that Cobalt has a 10% increase in clipboard limit. I hope you can confirm that. :-)
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
http://www.hipnetic.com/geek/treo_new2.gif
The WM Apache/Wizard design is the closest to this, but still needs work. My mockup was created ages ago. What's taking so long for someone to do this?
http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
8^)
mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
LiveFaith, do you have a picture of the dual boot, Cobalt/Plinux OS LG model that is surely right around the corner too?
I just never get tired of knowing what is coming thanks to LiveFaith's topnotch detective work.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Gekko, I expect the vast majority of Treo 650 users would agree with you. However, the T650 keyboard drives me nuts - I actually prefer to use G2 most of the time and the keyboard just gets in the way.
Using G2 on a Treo is not easy. Grafitti Anywhere is kind of clunky. So I have copied the 'Writing Area' files from my TE2 onto my Treo. It works quite well (although it stopes working occassionally in Blazer). Also, the Treo form factor is not conducive to writing G2 with the Treo on a desk - the back of the Treo is too rounded and the Treo itself is a little too thick to write comfortably anyway.
I pray for the day that Palm will release a Treo model with a detachable keyboard, the removal of which reveals a hard Graffiti writing area underneath. Well, I can dream, can't I?
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
It'd take a lot of work on the software side to get something like this to work--getting a device to drive two touchscreens with not just different screen resolution, but different screen layouts would be a challenge. But the carriers would fall all over themselves to get these things into your hands since it would finally make all-you-can eat 3G bandwidth something worth paying for.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
beersie - that contraption would be huge. you might as well go with a little/slim/light Dell notebook with full-blown Windows on it. If it ain't pocketable, you might as well go with a laptop.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
that contraption would be huge. you might as well go with a little/slim/light Dell notebook with full-blown Windows on it. If it ain't pocketable, you might as well go with a laptop.
Hmmm, I don't think so. By that logic you could say to someone thinking about buying a little/slim/light laptop that they might as well buy one with a big screen and another spindle. Fact is, different people have different thresholds for portability and even one person will judge portability relative to what they want to do and where.
My point is that laptops running full-blown PC operating systems don't satisfy the 80/20 rule for a large number of mobile computer users. That is, they are designed to be bigger, more complicated and slower to boot than they need to be to perform the stuff that these users need to do on their mobile computer 80% of the time.
Microsoft knows this and they are fumbling their way toward an answer:
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1785645,00.asp
The tablet-as-phone accessory is a better idea from a business standpoint than just shrinking a tablet PC like Gates wants to do. The carriers could literally give these auxiliary tablets away with the purchase of a Treo and make money off the increased use of wireless data plans.
And by the way, the tablet could be a lot smaller and slimmer than I rendered it if you prefer. Look at the Nokia 770 which has almost the same screen resolution as I'm talking about but is only 6 1/2 x 3 1/2 inches. In my opinion, though, that's too tiny to be comfortable as a laptop replacement for the market segment I'm talking about. Fonts will be too small and the pen input too fussy for prolonged use, so it will be of interest mainly to people who would buy a WiFi-enabled PDA.
As you know, that group of people is shrinking. I intentionally made this screen physically larger and tried to make it so it would feel good in your hand.
Anyway, it certainly wouldn't be for everyone, but I don't think the successful devices of the future will be the ones that try to be everything to everyone. I'd use it because I fly 5-6 hrs a week and ride taxis for another 3-4 hours and *hate* trying to use a laptop in those situations. I also would like a full-screen browser on a wireless device that could sit on my nightstand or coffee table where I'd never want a laptop.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
http://tinyurl.com/c8uyj
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PDAs are alive and kicking!
http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml
Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: PDAs are alive and kicking!
http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml
Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: PDAs are alive and kicking!
http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml
Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Show me a micro-PC in the $700, 250 gram range, and I'll bite. Until then, I suspect that the buzz over XP handhelds is premature.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
I don't see micro-laptops making it even at 1 pound. It's just too much of a size/weight penalty compared to a solid-state PDA--how many people are really going to want a full-scale desktop enough to put up with the bulk, compared to a RISC PDA that does many of the same things? Not to mention that the price will continue to be horrible for some time to come.
There are several problems with a micro-laptop running Windows, but price is going to be the big one because I don't think that many people have a really compelling need for a device that's neither a very good laptop noor a good PDA.
What makes an auxiliary tablet for a smartphone marketable is that since it doesn't have a processor, RAM, storage, wireless radios, or OS of its own it's very cheap to build. And since it would drive wireless data usage it would probably be free with the purchase of a locked Treo from a wireless carrier. When you bought a smartphone it would just come with one of these, like the wall wart for charging it. It's hard to argue with free, and I think people would catch on to there being a lot of times when they'd like to use them.
Show me a micro-PC in the $700, 250 gram range, and I'll bite. Until then, I suspect that the buzz over XP handhelds is premature.
I'm not sure even a 250 gram XP handheld would sell to more than a handful of geeks at $700. Which means they will probably never sell well. I'm not even sure if I would buy one for that price.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/CobaltBill.jpg
... even M$ has to do what it can for market share!!!
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
I'm not sure it's dual boot and LG hasn't paid my fee yet, but here's what I post just for you. I hear it will be called 600i, quad-band GSM, mini-SD, hvga rez & 56MB built-in mem. Sliding keyboard: Unknown
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/lg600i.jpg
... developing.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Two of his models are expected to be released at the same time that Palm releases a Cobalt PDA
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
If the T7 fulfills EVERY rumored spec Ryan lists in the news item, is built up to par and has decent battery life, would you consider giving it a closer look as a "modern" TH55 equivalent?
If it has a voice recorder and FAT32 support for >2gb SD cards, I'm in. As long as I buy from someplace local with a 14-day trial policy...
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
New WM 5.0 Phone now for sale -
http://www.sprint.com/business/products/phones/ppc6700_allPcsPhones.jsp
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
David Beers,
I guess most of the reactions to your mockup are mixed, but I could see that being a nice piece for a few people in just your needs set. Plain trips, commutes. I am not sure it could compete with a $350 cash Nokia 770 with a phone contract. I understand that the next 770 will be a complete phone itself. As you note the 770 screen may be too small for real surfing compared to your mockup.
Here is a real problem for your model though. There has never been a successful handheld between the size of a Palm III and a full laptop. Never. I suppose this is not a real handheld, but the phone without it is and the phone with it is, but the phone with it is just too big to pocket but not big enough to replace a laptop.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
If the T7 fulfills EVERY rumored spec Ryan lists in the news item, is built up to par and has decent battery life, would you consider giving it a closer look as a "modern" TH55 equivalent?
If it has a voice recorder and FAT32 support for >2gb SD cards, I'm in. As long as I buy from someplace local with a 14-day trial policy...
That's a lot of ifs. If you've ever used a TH55 you'll know how high that PDA set the bar. I don't think Palm has even the slightest hope of making as good a PDA. Ever.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
I just prefer (still) Palm's PIM/launcher implementation, the beefier CPU, SD support (just because I've invested a ton into the format--I have no inherent MS dislike), hard buttons, and stylus. 128mb of ram would be the icing on the cake PROVIDED all of those "ifs" are met.
Palm CAN do it--they just don't WANT to. By the time they seem certain to get it right---going by PST (PALM Standard Time) we're looking at spring or fall of '06. This really does seem their last chance to get it right and I'll still wager it's too little, too late.
Had the T7 come out this time last year, we could have lived with a few omissions from the T3. But at this point in time, especially with a lameduck OS pulling the rug out from under Palm at every turn, you'd think they'd take pains to integrate every relative low-tech bell'n whistle possible (charging LED, voice recorder, metal body, cradle in the box) to please their dwindling fan base.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
may all democrats and liberals burn in hell, too. at least they keep losing elections! thank God!
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Strangely, no, it won't. In fact it's not even desigend to connect over GPRS; It's purely a Wi-Fi device. But they say that the second version coming out next year will have VOIP.
Here is a real problem for your model though. There has never been a successful handheld between the size of a Palm III and a full laptop.
Yeah, I know, and you may be right. There have been quite a few attempts, too. Of course, look at all the failed attempts that were made to develop a handheld computer before Palm came along and got it right. There's always the hope that someone is going to find the right mix of features, form, and price and the meme will take root. That's unlikely to be me, but I like thinking about what it would take to do it right--for me anyway.
Good comments, thanks.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
http://tinyurl.com/8wmz6
I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
Get a European CLIE TH55 instead (Bluetooth/W-Fi)
That's why I have a bunch of them stockpiled...
I just prefer (still) Palm's PIM/launcher implementation,
The TH55 can be changed back to the default PalmOS launcher in less than 5 seconds. CLIE Organizer is OPTIONAL. It would have been interesting to see what they would have done with CLIE Organizer with a little more development.
the beefier CPU,
The 123 MHz HHE chip in the TH55 works as well as ANY CPU I've used in a PDA. Multimedia on a TH55 (video, MP3, etc) is actually BETTER than any Palm I've tested. MHz is actually not the most important factor in designing a good PDA CPU.
SD support (just because I've invested a ton into the format--I have no inherent MS dislike),
Yes, I hate the way Sony gouges consumers on the price of its memory (twice the price of competing SD). There have also been several fundamental changes in Memory Stick design (speed, form factor, DRM) that have hurt compatibility between devices. And CompactFlash is available for 1/3 the price and in MUCH larger storage capacities than Memory Stick. But Sony's proprietary stategy actually worked with me. Once you invest in a few Memory Sticks you find yourself inclined to buy more devices that use them. I now have several Memory Stick digital cameras, PDAs and a Memory Stick video recorder - all Sony, all because I got hooked on the quality of CLIEs. Had Sony not made the colossal mistake of not including a Memory Stick slot on the PS2, Memory Stick may have already surpassed SD in popularity.
hard buttons,
I'll take a jog dial over the hard buttons any day.
and stylus.
With the UX50 keyboard, the stylus is rarely needed. And a tap with a finger or a pen cap is a LOT faster than using a stylus.
128mb of ram would be the icing on the cake
Yes 128 MB RAM would be ideal. Even 64 MB would be nice. But then again, my UX50 only has 16 MB RAM and I probably have a couple HUNDRED apps on it. PowerRUN and LauncherX make it easy to live with limited memory.
PROVIDED all of those "ifs" are met.
Given the facts that Palm ALWAYS cuts corners and that their devices are now made in China with shoddy construction, I don't expect to EVER see another good device from Palm. Fortunately, the UX50, TH55 and VZ90 are close to perfect for their individual niches.
Palm CAN do it--they just don't WANT to.
I don't believe Palm has the will OR the ability to produce a quality device.
By the time they seem certain to get it right---going by PST (PALM Standard Time) we're looking at spring or fall of '06. This really does seem their last chance to get it right and I'll still wager it's too little, too late.
Had the T7 come out this time last year, we could have lived with a few omissions from the T3. But at this point in time, especially with a lameduck OS pulling the rug out from under Palm at every turn, you'd think they'd take pains to integrate every relative low-tech bell'n whistle possible (charging LED, voice recorder, metal body, cradle in the box) to please their dwindling fan base.
Try to find a European TH55 if you can. (You can expect to pay over $600 for a new one.) If you have one of them, you probably will not care whether or not Palm gets their act together before they get killed off ("Amiga-ed").
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
Brilliant commentary, Bubba. Brilliant.
Are you saying that Palm couldn't manage to change fundamental hardware features in PDAs that will be out in less than a month? Wow. As usual, you provide the trenchant analysis that people flock to Palminfocenter to get. Thanks for sharing.
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
OT: You want political commentary? Right here Bubba.
Ditto that.
There probably isn't space available for "democrats and liberals" in Hell - it's already filled up with dumba$$ yokel Republican and Conservatives like you, Bubba.
Here is a photo of your "fearless" leader, Adolph Bush in action:
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/o/f/bush_vacation_fishing.jpg
How about you keep dumba$$ political rants like yours out of Palminfocenter in the future.
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Take a Valium, sv
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Here is a link, in case anyone missed it:
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Also, TVoR/anyone who follows him and his links, http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/recreate.asp ...
I almost bought a TH-55 off of ebay to replace my now-dead SJ-33 (worked like a tank - the digitizer just went south), then figured I'd be better off buying a new device with a warranty, support, et. al., leading me to the Axim x50v. Granted, I miss the PalmOS, but I still feel better about my decision to get the device ...
I'm not interested in a smartphone yet, as I'd rather have the two devices that do their respective jobs very well, rather than having one device that's ok in each. That'll likely change in a few years, though.
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Congrats and welcome to "The Dark Side". I like my X50v also, but still miss the Palm OS. I'm keeping an eye out for a Palm to bring me back; it's not here yet, but I'm still looking.
All good things...
Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz line?
So does this mean that Palm is going to phase out the Z72 line of midrange consumer Zires and instead use the Tungsten line to market consumer handhelds? Will the Zire line only be for ultra low end like Z22?
--------------------
Gaurav
RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz line?
Palm's spring '06 lineup:
$100 (Zire 22)
$150 (Zire 32)
$200 (or less) (T|E2)
$300 (or less) (TX)
$400 (LifeDrive2)
That makes for a decent lineup.
$400ish (unlocked) Treo 650 leftovers or a new low-end Treo
$500 (unlocked) Treo 670
$650 (unlocked) high-end WinMob Treo 700
Treos honestly cannot be priced under this structure because every damm carrier has their own wacky pricing structure/deals/rebates that never arrive. You can "buy" PDAs outright. Unless you can snag an unlocked Treo, you have to sell your soul to get a discount on one.
RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz line?
Oh, and as for the whole large screen vs smartphone debate, do what I did - get a Nokia 9300!
RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz lin
mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz line?
$650 (unlocked) high-end WinMob Treo 700
If the hardware is the same those units, I can't see myself paying $150 for the dubious privilege of being a WinCE beta-tester. YMWV.
"Woke up this morning..."
What a breath of fresh air!!!!!
Agreement/disagreement. Point/counterpoint. Discussion and musing. And the really refreshing part was the general attitude of common courtesy and (dare I say it) respect for differing opinions. It'd be really nice to have it stay this way for a while.
I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
"All good things...."
I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
Voice Recorder? Be still my heart, palm got it right!
Still waiting for Cobalt...Garnet 5.99999999999999999999999 will not cut it in 2006.
RE: Voice Recorder? Be still my heart, palm got it right!
But let's wait and see. I, for one, am not holding my breath....
RE: Voice Recorder? Be still my heart, palm got it right!
me wanty now!
Palm m125 December 25, 2003 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to present.
Amazon
http://homepage.mac.com/gregjsmith
Zire 22--odd man out?
Palm will be losing a MAJOR selling point by omitting the SD slot from the Zire 22. If they try to keep the 22 and 31 side by side at retail, expect tremendous confusion to ensue. One has more RAM & likely a better screen while the other one will have an SD slot and a headphone jack.
I think a better strategy might be to try and hit the $75 price point with a VERY basic color Zire that can compete against all of those Royal, Sharp, and Casio organizers that are still sold at retail (SOMEONE'S gotta be buying those things, right?). Then have the step-up model as a Zire 32 in the $125-$150 neighborhood with a decent set of multimedia capabilities.
Despite the razor thin profit margins on those kinds of devices, there's plenty of life left in Garnet and for traditional PDAs in general in <$200 realm. Palm would be wise to have three models coming in at $200 or below so they could keep a tight grasp on the low end of the market.
Zire 22: Officially the End of Monochrome!
The monochrome screen goes the way of the albatross in Palm PDAs. Unless Palm drags out the death of the 21 at $79, this is the official obituary it seems.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
B&W Predictions
i was met with skepticism back in 2001:
I predict in 3 yrs B&W PDA's will be as available as B&W TVs
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 8:51:04 AM #
http://palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=1948&curpage=2
(yes - I didn't logon back then)
RE: Zire 22: Officially the End of Monochrome!
Anything that involves work in the field where the user is away from power doing mission critical work requires a monochrome screen, replaceable batteries, or both. If the Zire 21 goes away, that leaves Aceeca and Symbol as the last two makers of monochrome PDAs (not counting Alphasmart or Fossil!). If you don't want barcode scanning, the Aceeca Meazura would be the last Palm OS device left with the battery life for a large number of non-consumer applications.
Unfortunately, while the Meazura has a great price for a supremely ruggedized unit ($400) that's really expensive for some of my customers who deploy hundreds of these things and don't have that kind of budget. A surprising number are still using and maintaining fleets of Handspring Visors for that reason.
I'd be sad to see the Zire 21 go. Bet you can't guess what OS these customers will go to when they can't get monochrome Palm OS devices anymore:
http://www.handheldsystems.com/Handhelds/MS-DOS/Overview.htm
The CEO of a large custom handheld solution provider I know tells me he already sells *many* times more DOS handhelds than Palm or Windows Mobile combined for basically one reason: monochrome screens and the resulting 30hr+ battery life.
The day I had to go back to developing in DOS to satisfy this all-too-common kind of customer would be a dark day indeed. Thank God for Aceeca.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Zire 22--odd man out?
>"i was met with skepticism back in 2001:...I predict in 3 yrs B&W PDA's will be as available as B&W TVs [I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 8:51:04 AM #"]"
2001 + 3 years is 2004, you drooling nincompoop.
It's almost 2006.
You were wrong.
Why bring this up now? Do you like the humiliation? :)
------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
More specs leaked on both models!
PDABuzz.com is reporting that the new models will debut on Wed, Oct 12th (the article doesn't make the distinction if that's when they will be announced or if it's when they will begin hitting retail shelves).
It also says that the Zire 22 will have 32mb NVFS and that the TX/T7 is "essentially a T5 with wi-fi". There go the voice recorder, charging LED and camera rumors!
*UPDATE*
More info from PDA247.com:
**************************
T|TX
128MB NVFS, SD Card, USB 2.0, no camera, no voicerecord, no vibrate alarms, 320x480, 312Mhz PXA 272, WiFi, BT, Wifi and BT can be used at the same time.
Batt Life: max brightness. wifi connected. bt connected and music playing and warfare inc running (processor intensive app) and proc at 312 mhz is 2hrs and 30minutes!!!
Zire 22:
The Z22's specs will be:
160 x 160. Garnet. No SD. No Sound Output. No Vibrate. No LED alarm. No camera. No voicerecord. 200 MHz PXA 255 (processor info is questionable). 32 MB NVFS. The battery life w/ full brightness is 13 hours.
*********************************
SUPERB battery life on both devices! Lack of a voice recorder is a huge bummer but still not enough to make me want a LifeDrive.
D. Beersie; does 13 hours MINIMUM runtime on the Zire 22 sound good to your customers? Imagine if that thing's backlight is cranked down and the CPU is throttled down to 120mhz or so!
RE: Zire 22--odd man out?
RE: Zire 22--odd man out?
RE: Zire 22--odd man out?
D. Beersie; does 13 hours MINIMUM runtime on the Zire 22 sound good to your customers?
I am impressed. It's a key element of the Zen of Palm that I am very happy to see returning.
BTW, we've known each other for a while now, so let's dispense with the formalities--you can call me Brewski. ;)
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Trust no one
D. Beersie; does 13 hours MINIMUM runtime on the Zire 22 sound good to your customers? Imagine if that thing's backlight is cranked down and the CPU is throttled down to 120mhz or so!
I'd suggest reserving judgement until the devices have been thoroughly texted by at least a few reliable reviewers. And then test them yourself.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
The LifeDrive *was* the Tungsten X
I own one, and while I'm glad to have the features like all the space, the unit is terribly fragile compared to my past units. I went from a Palm III to a Tungsten T to a LiveDrive. (And it's been a step down each time.) I think Palm learned a lesson with the III, I had mine for 6 years and it is still fully functional in a drawer in my office. I've developed for every unit they have had out after that and it was not until the T|T that I thought it worth the upgrade (That being said I'd recomend an m515 over a Zire any day to the casual user) I just hope that I'm not going to be in the same boat with the LifeDrive as I was with the T, i.e. We biffed, no updates for you! There are many issues with the LifeDrive that I would like to see patched. (Like the fact that half the time you lock the damn thing and it won't turn back on after unlocking.)
Great for watching videos though! TCPMP rocks my world.
RE: The LifeDrive *was* the Tungsten X
Still, that doesn't neccessarily mean that this isn't true.
RE: The LifeDrive *was* the Tungsten X
Price
It's about time if it's true. $400 is too much for a PDA these days. At the reported price, I'd be tempted to add it as a companion to my Treo 650. At three hundred bucks and with all the reported features, the TX will be a choice PDA. Take away one of those elements, though... and the magic gone.
Looks like another winner! :)
This thing's going to take Christmas by storm. Bye bye wince! :)
------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
RE: Looks like another winner! :)
Uhmmmm...yeah.
All good things...
RE: Looks like another winner! :)
Surur are you posting using the Dr Opinion alias pretending to be an ignorant PalmOS fanboy just to make PalmOS users look like morons? Very slick.
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: Looks like another winner! :)
I'm sorry, but its not me. I am also having difficulty believing anybody could be such a fanboy. I am starting to think he's just trolling, which is why I am trying not to feed it with a proper rebuttal. It occurs to me that it may be Kirvin though, which would explain everything ;)
Surur
RE: Looks like another winner! :)
RE: Looks like another winner! :)
You can say that again.
What Does the Access Buyout Mean? - 19 comments after 6 days.
Podcast 41 - 16 comments after 3 days
Last two entries on his blog - 0 comments
I think he's discovering the worst thing that can happen to a trumped up self-publicist Circuit City salesman is to be ignored.
Surur
Dr Opinion = Jeff Kirvin? How sad.
Ryan could probably confirm ths by comparing the IP addresses of the two posters.
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
Calling Jeff Kirvin... Come in [out], Jeff.
Bwahahahaha. Poor little ba$tard. He tried the "shock jock" angle for a while, saying the most outrageous things just to generate controversey + comments but no one seems to care. What's Kirvin doing for work these days, anyway?
I just went to 1source to see for myself. Isn't it intereseting that they link to every Palm site but Palminfocenter (the most famous site)? Hmmmmmmmmm... Sounds like some Kiddies have got their panties in a knot...
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
The power button looks just so crappy
RE: The power button looks just so crappy
Ideally, stick a microphone cutout between the power button & the headphone jack. Don't worry about having a dedicated hard voice recorder button on the side of the unit (hardcore VR users can map the star button or one of the bottom hard buttons to the recorder app).
There, I've just addressed the two major shortcomings of the T5 by MERELY ALTERING THE TOP PLASTIC PANEL OF THE CASE!! I know how much injection mold toolings can be and Palm's reluctance to chance the physical body of the handheld due to cost. But they can take the above suggestions to heart, alter only the top of the handheld, and make the rest of the chances underhood (more RAM, bigger battery, wi-fi) and to FrankenGarnet. Bingo! New flagship device! Really, people, how hard can this be?
Palm hardware will ALWAYS suck
Presumably too hard for Palm to accomplish. Do yourself a HUGE favor: stop knocking yourself out begging Palm to make a decent PDA. End the frustration by accepting that they can't/won't and buying the best traditional PDA design ever produced: the European TH55.
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: The power button looks just so crappy
1. The toothpick styli on nearly every modern Clie.
2. Their lame hardware buttons (yes, the jog dial is nice-I have a great Sony desk phone with it and it's superb for Caller ID functionality).
3. The myriad of differing Memory Stick formats (as you pointed out above)and still a subpar $/MB ratio compared to SD & CF.
4. Being so utterly foolish as to omit BT on the Americanized TH55 and/or not send a localized VZ90 Stateside (in small batches) as the Clie line's swan song.
That said, I am kicking myself for buying a 2nd T3 last year after my first one disentegrated on me after 5 months. I shoulda gotten the TH55 while it was still widely available!
I will probably end up with a T7 if I can get one for below MSRP right off, simply out of a lack of anything else out there and that I'd rather put $600 towards a subnotebook instead of an OS5 Palm device. Still, I applaud your foresight to stock up on Clies! How many Clies DO you actually have in reserve?
Vintage CLIEs are better than NEW Palms.
1. The toothpick styli on nearly every modern Clie.
Stylus is rarely needed with UX50. If stylus input is required, a tap from a finger or pen cap works fine. For the TH55, I advise people to just buy a stylus pen.
2. Their lame hardware buttons (yes, the jog dial is nice-I have a great Sony desk phone with it and it's superb for Caller ID functionality).
I don't play games on my PDAs so the hardware buttons don't matter to me.
3. The myriad of differing Memory Stick formats (as you pointed out above)and still a subpar $/MB ratio compared to SD & CF.
Yes, Memory Stick is overpriced and storage capacities are too low. But once you start amassing a collection of devices using Memory Stick pretty soon you don't care about its shortcomings. Functionally all the memory formats are fine and the quality of the Sony branded Memory Sticks is excellent. (I haven't had any problems after using them for the past 5? years.
4. Being so utterly foolish as to omit BT on the Americanized TH55 and/or not send a localized VZ90 Stateside (in small batches) as the Clie line's swan song.
Sony's decisions were not foolish. Bluetooth wasn't popular in the U.S.A. at the time of the TH55 release. I presume Sony didn't want to go through the hassle of getting approval from the FCC for Bluetooth. There was no point in sending an English VZ90 to the States since Sony was already pulling out of the market and it would likely have sold in very low numbers given the high price.
That said, I am kicking myself for buying a 2nd T3 last year after my first one disentegrated on me after 5 months. I shoulda gotten the TH55 while it was still widely available!
I think the T3 is a great PDA denign that was compromised by crappy quality control. What's the point of keeping all your important data on a PDA if you can't trust that it won't just die on you?
I will probably end up with a T7 if I can get one for below MSRP right off, simply out of a lack of anything else out there and that I'd rather put $600 towards a subnotebook instead of an OS5 Palm device. Still, I applaud your foresight to stock up on Clies! How many Clies DO you actually have in reserve?
If I was you I'd check eBay for a used, well cared for TH55 before becoming a beta tester for the T7. I have over a dozen CLIEs and another dozen or so vintage Palms and TRG/HandEras. Some of the backup CLIEs are for future office use, some will be given away as gifts and the rest are for personal use over the next 5 - 10 years. These models do everything I could need from a PDA + I have all the software I will ever need, so I think I'm done with buying new PDA hardware for a loooooooong time. All I want is a high quality small PalmOS Bluetooth phone. To bad Samsung is gone...
TVoR
------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038
NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
RE: The power button looks just so crappy
I own a TH55, and it could have been the best PDA ever, except for these factors:
1. Slow
2. Tiny stylus
3. Clie organizer (which is actually pretty cool, apart from some severe limitations)
4. Odd button placement
I've also owned a PEG-615, which replaced my Palm V. That was a great PDA for its time.
I have some gripes about Palm (bad experience with the T3, which was a great PDA), but Sony never made a super PDA.
RE: The power button looks just so crappy
I share your sentiments about the TH55. Great feature-set (in Euro form only) and I still maintain the omission of BT from the US model is as inexcusable as Palm crippling the LD with 32mb RAM or dual wireless taking so long to appear.
I never used the Th55 enough to vouch for the speed (or lack thereof) in its Handheld Engine CPU but it was noticably slower than the T|C or T3 or whatever Palm I was using that day for comparison purposes (games & mp3 playback while switching apps in fullscreen mode).
The stylus & miserable hard buttons are still drealbreakers for me. Like I said the other day, the TH55 was and still is a nice handheld but there's no way I'd pay $500+ for a new or gently used one.
Slightly off-topic:
The best Clies, relative to the competition and the featuresets they had for their time were the classic 710/760s and the NR70V/T665 66mhz OS4 units. After that, (ie the OS5 era) Sony seemed to put the Clies on the back burner and pay less attention to the buttons, stylus etc. and everything got impossibly proprietary (launcher, PIMs, Decuma) if you were trying to make a seamless, quick transition from a Palm or Handspring device.
T5 vs. T7 quickie comparison
T5 Pros:
1. Cheaper-good retail discounts on remaining T5 stock
2. Faster CPU
3. 256mb RAM--160mb flash drive, 64mb program memory
T7 Pros:
1. Wi-fi
2. BT 1.2 as well as simultaneous wireless functionality
3. Longer battery life
4. Better looking dark case/better build quality (big IF)?
5. Equal or better stability than T5 due to FrankenGarnet 5.4.9 (big IF)?
Looks like, as I expected, voice recorder, camera, charging LED, vibrating alarm are all MIA. At the VERY least let's hope Palm puts in a full sized reset hole so the stylus tip can push it. I have come to hate all non-boingboing styli and having to unscrew something just adds insult to injury.
RE: T5 vs. T7 quickie comparison
[welcome to beatings] My ipaq h2210 is good for what I use it for, but what it could improve on is a keyboard.[not welcome to beatings]
What I would like to see in a "T7" is:
*520mhz Intel Xscale (i know people out there will say "but 400mhz is good for me" but let's face it, if you want to play or record high-resolution video, your gonna need the power.)
*128mb RAM
*512mb of NAND (for the built-in storage)
*a BIG (4") HVGA screen
*Slide'n'hide keyboard
*2mp camera (like in the Sony but with ablility to record video in AT LEAST 640x480 so you can have decent playback)
*Dont care what OS
*BT v1.2
*wifi
*SD slot
*a CompactFlash slot! Please give me more than one expansion slot!
*$450-$500
Just throwing ideas into the air...
Akula
RE: T5 vs. T7 quickie comparison
-Front bezel (metal) similar to LifeDrive's but w/ overall T5 thickness. Plastic back panel is fine for weight & cost savings
-Support for simultaneous hard button presses (for gaming)
-Side rails for securing a hard case. Good build quality a must!
-BT 1.2 w/ all profiles enabled
-Wi-Fi (802.11b is fine but g would be ideal)
-User-replacable battery, available in various capacities/sizes
-Boing boing stylus
-Voice recorder w/ updated VR app with adjustable sampling rate & decent quality mic
-Charge LED & T|T style reset opening on back side
-128mb RAM
-512mb NAND internal drive
-Built-in backup app. Possibly a built-in CPU throttle control toggle in Prefs menu
-User-selectable Graffit 1 or 2 in Prefs menu
-Cradle included in box
-A stable POS version & no major bugs in the shipping product-this includes the bundled apps as well
-MSRP at launch less than $400
This is a VERY realistic set of features. THIS is the device the POS world has been asking for SOMEONE to product since 2001! The above features are all basically available in various SHIPPING OS 5.x Palm models here'n there. We just need it all consolidated into a single device that's stable and isn't the size of a brick.
RE: T5 vs. T7 quickie comparison
mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
can you help me?
i want to sell my TT, how much i would sell it? i looking for a new palm, which 1 is better from peforments and price?
Latest Comments
- I got one -Tuckermaclain
- RE: Don't we have this already? -Tuckermaclain
- RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -richf
- RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -dmitrygr
- Palm phone on HDblog -palmato
- Palm PVG100 -hgoldner
- RE: Like Deja Vu -PacManFoo
- Like Deja Vu -T_W
TX sounds good!
I only hope they improve on the quality of the sync cable connector - it was pretty poor for the T5 and there were many complaints about problems syncing due to poor contact.
T3 & T5 user