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Details and Pictures of the Legend Palm 168

Legend, the recent Chinese Palm OS licensee, announced that they would be bringing a new Palm OS Handheld to the Chinese market by January 2003. Our readers have uncovered some more specific details and pictures of the device.

Legend Palm 168PalmSource had announced it will license the Palm OS to China's biggest PC firm, Legend Group. The four-year deal will let Legend fit its handheld computers with a Chinese language version of PalmSource's OS 4.2 operating system. The unit featues a color QVGA Screen (240x320), MP3-playing ability, a dictionary, address book and calendar, and a price tag below 2,000 yuan ($240 USD) when it goes on sale in January in China.

Sourced from various Mandarin-based Palm User Groups in China and Taiwan, these are some specs on Legend's Palm 168.

Legend Palm 168 1. Processor: Dragonball 66MHz
2. Memory: 16MB RAM; 8MB Flash ROM
3. Expandability: SD/MMC (No I/O Support)
4. Screen/Resolution: Color/240x320
5. JogDial: YES
6. Virtual/Soft Graffiti: YES (Including 2 silk buttons for PinYin and Dictionary)
7. Battery: Li-Ion
8. MP3: YES
9. Connectivity: IR/USB
10. OS Version: 4.1
11. Chinese Character: 11×10 pixel (Input may also be contextual)
12. Dimension: 120×73×12.5 (mm)
13. Bundled Software: YES (Lots of Chinese-based ones)
12. Color: Silver
13. Price and Availability: US$240/January 2003

If you can read Chinese, you can visit: cnpug.com for more info.

Additional Pictures:

PalmSource has just announced a new strategy and push into the Chinese PDA market. China is the world's second largest handheld market, with about 20% of the world's handheld units last year.

"We are excited to partner with Legend and GSL to bring leading edge Palm Powered(TM) products to market," said David Nagel, chief executive officer and president of PalmSource, Inc. "These world-class partners, combined with an innovative and talented developer community will catalyze a thriving Palm Economy in China."

Thanks to Yee Szemen (Slikmit) for the details and links; Pictures Courtesy of: Handwatch.com.tw.

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Sony-ish

Spitz @ 12/16/2002 12:14:13 PM #
Remiscent of the n760c IMO. The virtual graffiti is great. Good looking PDA.
RE: Sony-ish
johnwin @ 12/16/2002 12:51:25 PM #
Yeah - very Sony-esque

Looks good though - wonder if it uses the new Memory Sticks ;-)

http://johnspalm.blogspot.com/

RE: Sony-ish
kempokaraterulz @ 12/16/2002 1:09:14 PM #
jeeeeeeeee they arent copying the n760 are they? no wait, this one has a lower screen res... BTW ryan shouldnt it be 240x320, instead of 320x240?

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RE: Sony-ish
kempokaraterulz @ 12/16/2002 1:11:26 PM #
Smacks self DUH!, i read that wrong. neva mind the last part of my comment

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RE: Sony-ish
gderrick1961 @ 12/16/2002 10:41:52 PM #
I traded a IIIc for the 760C I use now. I don't find the high res that big of an upgrade. I love the addition features of the clie like the jog and MP3 player but reading avantgo and ebooks was easier with the large blocky fonts of the IIIc. Old eyes I guess.

This Legend with the virtual graffiti area could be sweet. The screen would have to be refelective or better yet trans-reflective. Couldn't go back to an indoor only model.

RE: Sony-ish
enjolras @ 12/17/2002 6:40:08 PM #
That's precisely why OS 5 treats Hi-res differently. It wants to replicate the screen-feel of the traditional 160x160 Palm device, but have everything be more defined. Thus, an app in 0S 5 will have the same proportions, but will be much better looking.

RE: Sony-ish
smiley1081 @ 12/18/2002 9:37:25 AM #
I see the ghost of the Handera 330C in it..

A bit more info on the software

popko @ 12/16/2002 12:34:37 PM #
Info here are from many different Chinese palm sites, I'll do a small sum up:

1. The OS is not really in Chinese. Rather, the OS is in English version but with CHOS (some special OEM version) build right into the ROM.

2. Those who have seen the Legend palm in person cliam that the font is not as good looking as the Acer ones.

3. Has extra usb connector for MP3 (whatever that means...)

4. "SD/MMC (No I/O Support)" is much like that of current Clies - software problem. The 168 should be able to use I/O SD as long as Legend or a 3rd party can come up with a driver.

5. Some say that the Virtual/Soft Graffiti can not be hidden (but doesn't one of the pic have shown that the garaffiti is indeed invisable?)

RE: A bit more info on the software
hkklife @ 12/16/2002 4:38:32 PM #
Response to point #4:

Agreed, hopefully they can release a patch like Handspring recently did to correct the lack of I/O but it is discouraging to see that it'll be an "incomplete" package out of the box. In my experience, most consumers/newbies here in the US have a pretty hard time even downloading additional apps or games (much less an OS update!) for their handhelds (or PCs for that matter), short of whatever Palm/Sony etc. shovelware is bundled on the instllation CD.

It's disheartening to see that the PDA market is becoming like the PC games industry--incomplete titles rushed to market with consumers having to take a "cross your fingers and wait" approach that hopefully the flaws will/can be remedied via software.



320*240 is pretty good!

dhchung @ 12/16/2002 2:07:06 PM #
This would make it looks different from other PDA (due to the virtual graffiti) and it suits china's low price market (as a whole).


RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
kempokaraterulz @ 12/16/2002 2:10:53 PM #
there are evfen a few progs out for that res (but not color) due to the handera. OOO! i wonder if handera had something to do with this..,

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RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
Admin @ 12/16/2002 2:11:26 PM #
just so we're clear it is 240x320 and I figure the main reason for this is that this resolution is common on the PPC side and it's probably much cheaper to produce than the 320x480 screens.
RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
neoyuan @ 12/16/2002 2:59:36 PM #
I personal do not care whether it is 240*320 or 320*480. Owning a 320x320 Clie, I rather want it to be a 240x320 with a big display as PPC. Size does matter!


I wont support it
rsc1000 @ 12/16/2002 3:11:00 PM #
I am so sick of trying to support different APIs / densities/ bit-depths on Palm OS devices. Do you people realize how much of a pain it is to get an app to look great in standard Palm 160x160 (2bit/4bit/8bit) and Sony API 320x320, and OS 5 API? Fine if everything is text only - but the projects i've worked on involve icons/graphics/custom fonts - a big headache now. Sure i could let Sonys hi-res assist kick in and just pixel double the graphics. Passable for icons and such - but when yr using a custom font (especially in combination with a standard one) evrything looks like crap - so you have more coding to do. Then along comes OS 5 - and its the same crap, different pile. I am not entirely sure what API these guys are using - but i do know that im not going to support it (i also dont support Handera). Its just not cost effective to do so for the 1% of users that might use it. Exactly how does a 160x160 bitmap play out on the legend? Can't possibly be good. We have new devices (even OS4 devices) that use the new 320x320 standard OS 5 hi-res API. If its 320x480 then its no-problem (virtual grafitti can be supported or not - its a sepate API). But this just bugs me. So i ask all of you: why the heck to you think this is a good thing?? Is it good that yet another device is released that has NO software that works well with this standard? Do you think there is going to be even 10% as much support for this as the Sony standard (which wrks much better because of the '2x' thing)? This is stupid. Its not like win32 desktop code - there is no real system within the Palm OS API for scaling graphics and bit-depths - its all an after thought patchwrk of functions. no, no, no - just stick with multiples of 160, and use the OS 5 API. OS5 was supposed to remove all of these different API problems (Sony itself is finally adopting it). I have heard it said that this device uses OS 5. Even if thats the case (im very suspicious of this rumour) - then it is still wrong that it is not a multiple of 160. how would the 160x160 based co-ordinate system (the way OS5 deals with even high res) wrk with 240?

RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
cbowers @ 12/16/2002 3:29:12 PM #
Sony?

More in common with the HandEra 330 from my viewpoint (or the unreleased prototype 330c)

Common features:

SD slot without SDIO
Jog Dial
Virtual graffiti
screen 240x320

The unreleased 330c and the unreleased Symbol prototype that had work done on it by HandEra had OS4.1, USB, Li-Ion built-in (rather than optional on the 330), and a color 240x320 screen.

I find it interesting also that part about "the OS is in English version but with CHOS (some special OEM version) build right into the ROM." Since there is High-res chinese input available for the 330.

Maybe HandEra Services is at work here again?

A real teller would be what the graphics co-processor onboard is.

If it's that Epson QVGA chip from Epson and HandEra press releases it would be telling...

Anyway, all just conjecture...

RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
UZI4U182 @ 12/16/2002 3:30:19 PM #
Am i missing something here? Shouldn't 320x320 be BIGGER than 240x320 or whatever?

--Devan-- | Email me: UZI4U182@att.net
Webmaster of www.tavern.2ya.com
Palm OS apps, news, reviews and such
Current PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-SJ30
Check out my new forum: www.tavernforum.2ya.com
RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
neoyuan @ 12/16/2002 4:07:11 PM #
We are talking about the LCD size, not the pixel count. A 240x320 VG LCD is a lot BIGGER than 320x320 ones used by Sony/Palm.

About the problems caused by different resolutions, 160x160, 240x320, 320x320, and 320x480, I do not really see font is a big problem. On my clie N610c, FontHack123 does a terrific job to replace the included crappy thin fonts. I looked at the OS5 fonts used by TT, it is too big and wastes so much screen estate. As to icon and other graphics, 240x320 even 320x320 are hassles to programers. It may be the reason why a lot of games can not run on TT and NX, if programmers do not follow the guidelines exactly.

With OS5's internal support for 1.5 scaling, (it is said the Legend's new palm uses OS5 API), it probably will ease programer's burden in supporting multiple resolutions.


RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
cbowers @ 12/16/2002 4:20:21 PM #
Resolution does not equal size.

Reference the Fossil PalmOS watch. It has the same 160x160 resolution display as any non-high res PDA. Yet it fits on your wrist.

It has to do with size and spacing of pixels. In the same way that if you were able to circumvent the molecular bonds in your body and remove all the space from between your molecules, you could call a matchbox, home. You'd have the same number of pixels (molecules), but you'd be a smaller, higher resolution version of yourself ;-)

320x320 just has more pixels. But you can put that in any sized screen you like, from watch-size, to jumbo-tron.

Going with a 240x320 screen as has been mentioned is likely a good deal cheaper because of the number of manufacturers making it. Presumably still, if you want a Sony resolution screen, you're going to have to buy (or license) them from Sony.

RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
Foo Fighter @ 12/16/2002 8:12:59 PM #
rsc1000, I sympathize with your plight...but what is your point? Are you saying developers should just stick with the old 160x160 resolution and save themselves the hassle of having to code for a different rez?

No offense, but if you don't like the resolution confinements of the Palm environment, then don't program for it.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
sub_tex @ 12/16/2002 9:09:38 PM #
"No offense, but if you don't like the resolution confinements of the Palm environment, then don't program for it."

Amen.

I understand the pain in the butt it is. But in my opinion that should mean more people need to hound PalmSource for a non fixed standard for the palm os.

Then we can have screen sizes of all types and not worry about this junk.



RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
UZI4U182 @ 12/16/2002 11:57:19 PM #
>We are talking about the LCD size, not the pixel count. A 240x320 VG LCD is a lot BIGGER than 320x320 ones used by Sony/Palm.

OK, thanks for clearing that up. I was considering whole screen size (including VG) on the Legend, and just the viewable area on a 320x320. VG tends to confuse me, lol

--Devan-- | Email me: UZI4U182@att.net
Webmaster of www.tavern.2ya.com
Palm OS apps, news, reviews and such
Current PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-SJ30
Check out my new forum: www.tavernforum.2ya.com

RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
LarryGarfield @ 12/17/2002 12:11:13 AM #
rsc1000, the OS 5 screen API DOES support 240x240 resolution. It's called "one and a half scale mode". Look it up, the API supports 160x160*1, *2, *3, *4, and *1.5. And it does scale everything itself from one resolution to another. If this thing uses the OS 5 screen API, which I suspect it does, then you just write to the OS 5 screen API and there's a damned good chance that it will work just fine.

If you're a developer I would have thought you would know about that by now.

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This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA

RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
rsc1000 @ 12/17/2002 2:31:09 PM #
>>>rsc1000, I sympathize with your plight...but what is your point? Are you saying developers should just stick with the old 160x160 resolution and save themselves the hassle of having to code for a different rez?

My point is - keep it scalable. In other words, 160x160,320x320, or w/virtual grafiti 320x480 - and keep to one API (which is now happening with OS5). All of these are (relatively) easy to work with. As for saying "but if you don't like the resolution confinements of the Palm environment, then don't program for it", no- i just won't support handera or legend (like most software developers don't support handera now). Also - this is my job, so i don't have the choice to not program for it. Having said that I ENJOY PROGRAMMING PALM OS - best job i ever had:) I like how my apps look on Sony hi-res (except for the skinny font thing) and on OS 5. If i choose to not completely re-do all icons and graphics they still look fine 'pixel-doubled' with either of these APIs. Same cannot be said for Handera.

>> I understand the pain in the butt it is. But in my opinion that should mean more people need to hound PalmSource for a non fixed standard for the palm os.

I believe this is also something i suggested in my original post - scalable graphics API.

>>rsc1000, the OS 5 screen API DOES support 240x240 resolution. It's called "one and a half scale mode". Look it up, the API supports 160x160*1, *2, *3, *4, and *1.5.

>>If you're a developer I would have thought you would know about that by now.

I think yr missing the point here. Yes, i am aware of "one and a half scale mode" - somebody brought this up recently (week or so ago) on PIC. However, if it scales the graphics - then we are not taking advantage of the 240x320 are we?? Besides, if i have a 10x10 icon and it gets scaled to 15x15, then a 1 pixel wide line might get scaled to 1 pixel while another (in the same icon) might get scaled to 2 pixels wide. Not pretty.


My whole point is this: YES - we can all write code for 160*160 B&W and it will work with all of the above APIs/screen densities/bit-depths. But do we not want to move Palm OS software development forward so that code actually takes advantage of the capabilities of these expensive new devices?? Adding a 240x320 res to the mix just makes it harder to optimize for all devices. To make it look great - i would have to re-do graphics to support this res or keep the graphics '1:1' and change my form alyout instead. That isnt going to hapopen just for Handera and Legend.

As to the notion that all 'real' developers should know about "one and a half scale mode" - get real.
you seem to think that developers have nothing better to do then to go fishing for undocumented OS features. Paid development in most small Palm dev companies doesn't work like that. The only reason my apps support anything other then 160x160 b&w is because i did the extra work on my own time - my small company would kick my ass if i had put that many hours into making it 'look nice' while at work. We don't do big 'off-the-shelf' apps like docs-to-go, nor do we make games. I wish i worked for Mobile Wizardry who gets to focus on the graphics capabilities of different devices/APis, but most palm jobs aren't like that (and besides, i'm not that good:) ). My company - like many - mostly does database, 'verticle'-type apps. I just like my apps to look nice because i think users who have shelled out big money for color hi-res devices should get a break from stale, eye-straining interfaces. But, if yr seriously telling me that all companies making Palm OS software should be aware of undocumented features utilized by as-yet non-existant devices then you don't understand how most paid development gets done.

next beef/request: REAL FONT SUPPORT



RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
ganoe @ 12/17/2002 6:02:19 PM #
> But, if yr seriously telling me that all companies making Palm OS
> software should be aware of undocumented features utilized by
> as-yet non-existant devices then you don't understand how most paid
> development gets done.

I only expect paid, professional software developers to actually read the developer documentation and make educated decisions about their software designs and development. I hope when we get 480x480 screens you don't just let it pixel triple because you can't multiply your 320x320 screens by one and a half either.


RE: 320*240 is pretty good!
rsc1000 @ 12/18/2002 11:39:05 AM #
>>I hope when we get 480x480 screens you don't just let it pixel triple because you can't multiply your 320x320 screens by one and a half either.

Christ - i hope there aren't any attempts to do a 480x480 device using the current OS 5 API. The absurdity here folks, is that it is not a truly scalable API. For example - imagine if you had to do completely different version of this website for different resolutions. Yes the graphics would be the same, but to make the tables/formatting so that it completely filled the screen (like PIC pages do now) would require seperate html to be executed for each different resolution. this would suck. Fortunately, HTML doesn't force us to do this - you can set width of an object to be a percentage of the available window. So - if the Palm OS API (for say, version 6.0)was to embrace a scalable approach, then all would be cool with the universe. You could keep yr icons/graphics designed for 320x320 - but with relative screen placement, just like on Windows desktop apps. there would be no need for 'pixel tripleing'. Moving from 160x160 to 320x320 is a slightly different matter - graphics / icons (the app launcher icons are a good example) simply suck in their original low-res incarnation. But in the same way that windows desktop icons are fine for multiple resolutions, OS 5 hi-res icons should be fine for future higher res devices - provided it is all handled through ONE(!) API that supports scalable res.



Second One

JKingGrim @ 12/16/2002 4:46:33 PM #
Whats that other Palm in the background?

RE: Second One
jbeedham @ 12/17/2002 9:55:41 PM #
It looks like a black and white version of the same model. Maybe they will be releasing another model that is even cheaper.

Isn't the Processor 66MHz?

aodio @ 12/16/2002 6:15:25 PM #
The specs on the article say 33MHz, but Picture 4 says 66Mhz on the Memo text.
RE: Isn't the Processor 66MHz?
yapliren @ 12/17/2002 12:03:28 AM #
yes i agreed, the picture wrote cpu is 66mhz

info

yapliren @ 12/17/2002 12:08:00 AM #
According the source from CnPUG.com, Legend gave them these specs

Palm OS 4.1
33mhz dragonball
320~240 true color
MP3 support
Build in SD/MMC slot.
Li-Ion batteryCable to playback mp3 for 20 hours with screen off.
Additional usb port for transfer MP3.
Able to use USB sync to recharge the unit.
Standard irda.
16MB RAMG8MB FlashG3MB MP3/Flash for recording use

RE: info
slickmeat @ 12/17/2002 3:56:35 AM #
yeah, there has been a contagious atmosphere amongst Chinese websites regarding a possible background technical assistance afforded by Handera in developing Legend's Palm OS-based handheld.

Slikmit

Acer-like

pen_n_paper @ 12/17/2002 8:34:52 AM #
Is this going to follow the path of Acer......

would it be available in the US and other counties?

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I was at PalmSource China

pdageek @ 12/17/2002 8:50:35 AM #
I attended the PalmSource event in Beijing. Just a few comments:
i. the cpu is 66mhz Super VZ not 33mhz
ii. the graffit can be 'closed' for built in programs like ebook and picture viewers
iii. user can choice english or chinese interface
(I wonder if they are going to sell this in the US?)


RE: I was at PalmSource China
guoleke @ 12/17/2002 10:49:45 AM #
the announcement indicates that the unit comes with a dictionary. do you know by any chance whether this is a Chinese language dictionary or Chinese-English much like the Oxford version from Pleco?
thx


Yv

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