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Comments on: HP to Acquire Palm for $1.2 Billion

hp palm HP and Palm, Inc. today announced that they have entered into a definitive agreement under which HP will purchase Palm, a provider of smartphones powered by the Palm webOS mobile operating system, at a price of $5.70 per share of Palm common stock in cash or an enterprise value of approximately $1.2 billion. The transaction has been approved by the HP and Palm boards of directors.

The combination of HP's global scale and financial strength with Palm's unparalleled webOS platform will enhance HP's ability to participate more aggressively in the fast-growing, highly profitable smartphone and connected mobile device markets. Palm's unique webOS will allow HP to take advantage of features such as true multitasking and always up-to-date information sharing across applications.

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Jaw still dropped

questionfear @ 4/28/2010 1:19:20 PM # Q
I am SHOCKED.
Reply to this comment

I want to see the financial details released soon

SeldomVisitor @ 4/28/2010 1:20:03 PM # Q
The price, $5.70 is well below Elevation Partner's original purchase as well as their $16.25 purchase; I want to see how this is going to be handled.

[I think paying a billion+ for what Palm has to offer is nuts; I want to see HP's justification for that, too, of course...but Palm s supposed to be filling some new info this afternoon]

RE: I want to see the financial details released soon
SeldomVisitor @ 4/28/2010 1:49:24 PM # Q
Palm filed some minimal information - they were on the way to a massive miss:

== "...The Company expects revenues for its fourth fiscal quarter to be in the
== range of approximately $90 million to $100 million on a GAAP ( 1) and a
== non-GAAP basis..."

and they did indeed expect to burn up $200+ million this quarter:

== "...Palm also expects to close its fourth fiscal quarter with a cash, cash
== equivalents and short-term investments balance between $350 million and
== $400 million..."

They still have to say how the Preferred shares are going to be handled.

RE: I want to see the financial details released soon
2klbs @ 4/28/2010 2:00:05 PM # Q
Was just going to post that. 'shoulda known you were there first SV-

Youch.

http://investor.palm.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1193125-10-96703
Not "Pre-verted"- Android Assimilation?

RE: I want to see the financial details released soon
2klbs @ 4/28/2010 4:43:48 PM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:

They still have to say how the Preferred shares are going to be handled.

SV, saw this at MW a bit earlier, no indication of methodology though:

Elevation, the private equity firm which invested about $460 million in Palm, is estimated to have made a very small profit on the Palm deal. At the price H-P is paying for Palm, Elevation's stake, including convertible preferred shares and warrants, was estimated as worth about $485 million
Not "Pre-verted"- Android Assimilation?

RE: I want to see the financial details released soon
2klbs @ 4/28/2010 4:50:22 PM # Q
RE: I want to see the financial details released soon
SeldomVisitor @ 4/28/2010 5:16:53 PM # Q
The problem is that the "small profit" "article" didn't address the fact that the Preferred shares are =preferred= and theoretically get theirs FIRST before common shares get theirs. This screws up the whole "How much per share are common shareholders REALLY going to get?" computation. I think Palm is going to have to come clean soon with the REAL bottomline dollar amounts - either the total buyout price has to be MUCH higher than HPQ said or the price per common share has to be LOTS LOWER than was announced.

But something simply is not computing with the current numbers.

Reply to this comment

Good move!

CFreymarc @ 4/28/2010 1:30:21 PM # M Q
Brilliant "rook across the chessboard" move. Windows Mobile is lacking and HP wants into smartphones big. With the webOS they have a lot more control over their OS than from Redmond. A few long time Palm employees are little millionaires now. Congraduations!
RE: Good move!
gabvoice2 @ 4/28/2010 7:08:12 PM # Q
Deep-pocketed HP will grow muscles on the new kid WebOS, and immediately expand this platform through its well established hardware infrastructure. Good move indeed!
RE: Good move!
LiveFaith @ 4/28/2010 8:46:58 PM # Q
Will Palm now become the next Compaq. Will HP work the same magic on the Pre that they did on the mighty iPaq? Please ... may it never be. I hope they learned from the last destruction of IP.

Nevertheless, this to me looks like a much better fit for Palm than the other names being thrown around lately. Amazing. Todd Bradley back in the saddle too.
Pat Horne

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enemy of my enemy and all that

2klbs @ 4/28/2010 1:32:28 PM # Q
Thanks goodness people hate M$.

What a rabbit to be pulled- good for Palm, and good luck to HP.
Not "Pre-verted"- Android Assimilation?

Reply to this comment

Brilliant match!!

mikecane @ 4/28/2010 1:34:19 PM # Q
Really, this is better than Asus. hp has shown seriousness in the portable market from the time of its original Flash-based handheld computer (I forget its name; it had a cult following) and that mini-laptop (which name also escapes me right now, dammit; it had that funky slide-out mouse), so this is really a perfect match.

Now, how fast can hp rip Win7 off that Slate and give us webOS?

RE: Brilliant match!!
rpa @ 4/28/2010 5:23:29 PM # Q
mikecane: the mini-laptop you are thinking of is the HP Omnibook?
RE: Brilliant match!!
LiveFaith @ 4/28/2010 8:51:10 PM # Q
Here's the deal HP: Keep your hands OFF the software and let Palm do that. Every HP product that I have ever owned has the most utterly horrendous non-intuitive, unstable, and bloated software of anything I've seen this side of the cell carriers. Just let the boys and girls from Cali do their thing and you get us some HTC style hardware to run it on.
Pat Horne
RE: Brilliant match!!
mikecane @ 4/29/2010 6:23:08 AM # Q
Yeah, the OmniBook was it. I looked it up later on.
RE: Brilliant match!!
mikecane @ 4/29/2010 4:58:21 PM # Q
>>>Every HP product that I have ever owned has the most utterly horrendous non-intuitive, unstable, and bloated software

Oh, I just saw that. My god!! The hp printer software I must use is utter crap!! AND it installed itself TWICE and I can't get rid of the damned duplicate.

RE: Brilliant match!!
LiveFaith @ 4/29/2010 7:44:16 PM # Q
Yep. As long as that "HP Software Group" in the division chart keeps it's distance Palm may have a chance. Let those foos anywhere near and it's a Windows Me remix.
Pat Horne
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There is hope for WebOS yet!

zuhmir @ 4/28/2010 1:54:16 PM # Q
I still don't understand why Palm never offered people from around the world to buy the Pre... It's only a matter of releasing a list of compatible networks around the world and maybe localizing the device... no big deal.
But HP is already global so I hope they will just boost a worldwide sale!
RE: There is hope for WebOS yet!
e_tellurian @ 4/28/2010 6:59:07 PM # Q
The planet is huge and more and more countries can make electricity so the market should open up. Agree not sure why Palm did not offer their products to more countries. SFR had good things to say about Palm.

"Frank Esser, SFR chairman and chief executive officer, said, "SFR is extremely proud to be the first operator to launch Palm webOS smartphones in France. This alliance comes within the scope of our strategy to provide the best user experience for mobile Internet and the widest range of smartphones to our customers"

Such support for Palm is priceless. Am sure others will share the same sentiments around the planet.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: There is hope for WebOS yet!
jodihansen @ 4/28/2010 7:40:53 PM # Q
Yes, I agree. I am in Australia and have an iPhone now, but only because the Pre wasn't available here. It was CDMA and not GSM which is needed over here. I know that GSM ones are now available on eBay but I got a new iPhone before they were available. I am still interested in getting a Palm Pre Plus, but are in a contract until July 11th.
I hope that HP make WebOS devices available world-wide with the same launch date everywhere. If Palm had of done this with the Pre then I would have one.
Reply to this comment

OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!

mikecane @ 4/28/2010 2:31:22 PM # Q
I just read the post and saw this:

>>>"Palm's innovative operating system provides an ideal platform to expand HP's mobility strategy and create a unique HP experience spanning multiple mobile connected devices," said Todd Bradley, executive vice president, Personal Systems Group, HP.

Hello, Todd Bradley!

Palm Chooses Head of Hardware Development
Palm, Inc. has just named Todd Bradley as president of its Palm Solutions Group.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/3401/

Palm Inc Acquires Handspring
>>>The merged company will be led by Bradley, who will continue as president and chief executive officer
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/5479/palm-inc-acquires-handspring/

OMG!

RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
Ryan @ 4/28/2010 3:06:24 PM # Q
I half expected this sort of outcome. Many of the "old Palm" vp's and marketing people that I used to work with all moved to positions at HP years ago, so there was a lot of back and forth between the two companies already.

Bradley ran Palm as CEO back in the pa1mOne days and long before the spin off of PalmSource. I believe he was put in charge following Yankowski from 2001 until 2005 when Colligan took over.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7521

RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
mikecane @ 4/28/2010 3:23:45 PM # Q
Banging my head on my desk because I never, ever considered this. In retrospect, it's just frikkin natural. A much better fit than Asus would have been.
RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
2klbs @ 4/28/2010 3:38:19 PM # Q
wow, memories, and there are other parallels.

Todd left as the PDA share began to fall off and Ed had been put in charge of the mobile-pone side. With the success of the Treo from the Handspring acquisition, Ed was in the right place at the right time.

Weird to think of the similar picture: Then: Palm throwing their lot behind a new smart-phone from a company acquisition that set it apart as their core product declined. HP in similar situation now with computing products.

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2005/0124updat-pal.html
Not "Pre-verted"- Android Assimilation?

RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
Ryan @ 4/28/2010 4:00:49 PM # Q
How's this for more parallels? HP recently bought 3com.
RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
hkklife @ 4/28/2010 4:27:21 PM # Q
Now they just need to pick up the remnants of USR and everyone will have come full circle!

I hope HP has an opening for Hawkins & Haitani as well!
And the tap counter too!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
mikecane @ 4/28/2010 5:16:59 PM # Q
Someone reminded me that hp also bought 3Com. Wow. That's just wild.

I really hope this move by hp gets devs excited and really ramps up webOS development.

And, btw, ePub books can be read on webOS right now:

ePub Books On webOS
http://ipadtest.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/epub-books-on-webos/

AFAIK, there is no app to do this on webOS (and Aldiko seems disinclined to port to webOS from Android, no matter how many times I've told them to).

RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
hkklife @ 4/28/2010 5:52:00 PM # Q
Mike;
Does today's move influence your new hardware acquisition plans at ALL?

Are you still springing for a 3G-enabled iPad?

Any chance of you picking up a "free" WebOS device in order to familiarize yourself with the basics of WebOS prior to the first "real" HP hardware running WebOS?


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
jca666us @ 4/28/2010 6:04:21 PM # M Q
HP definitely overpaid - however they may be looking to use webos to differentiate their product offerings - in the same way apple uses os-x, and iPhone os.

Only thing is, I hope HP doesn't force Palm to rush stuff out to market. They need to give Palm the time to beef up webos.

HP builds pretty solid, but unimaginative, hardware.

Hopefully we'll see a webos-based slate device next year.

RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
abosco @ 4/28/2010 7:28:02 PM # M Q
Palm is now in front of some deep, deep pockets. With all of the bullshit M&A finally (hopefully) put to bed, the company can focus on engineering.

I wonder what HP's tolerance for Palm will be as a profit/loss center. If they are not profitable within the next 18 months, do they have a plan? Can they swallow a few hundred million?

Also, I figure that the $1.2B isn't being paid in cash. I imagine some stock changed hands.

RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
LiveFaith @ 4/28/2010 8:57:08 PM # Q
Tap Counter! It's gesture counter now foo!
Pat Horne
RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
mikecane @ 4/29/2010 6:24:53 AM # Q
Nothing has changed on my iPad front. But it has made me reconsider an iPhone later on. And I really, really, really want a webOS tablet.
RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
MikeT5 @ 4/29/2010 8:18:03 AM # Q
HP's acquisition of Palm (and its intentions for the division) prompted me to delay moving to another platform with my carrier, which I have been considering since my contract will soon expire. I have opted to give Palm one more chance, under the auspices of HP, and have puchased a new, backup Centro on eBay, as others also have done. I am adopting a "wait-and-see" attitude until I can test HP/Palm's new WebOS devices and architectures. Personally, I am willing to pay extra for higher quality materials in HP/Palm-branded hardware, provided there is a corresponding improvement in the implementation of WebOS. Based on in-store and other tests of the pre/pre plus and pixi/pixi plus, Apple, Android, and MS devices, I have found WebOS easier to use, particularly its multitasking and task-switching capabilities--though it remains to be seen what multitasking and task-switching will be like in upcoming offerings from the competition. Hopefully, HP/Palm will develop an in-house emulator, or work more closely with third-party developers to provide a better emulation experience, in multitasking the "best" of the 30-50k, or so, PalmOS apps that are still available in the palm ecosystem, perhaps allowing them to run side-by-side (recall "TealOS") with the new crop of WebOS apps that have been trickling into the marketplace. This ought to be done until the best of the old PalmOS apps are properly ported, natively, into the new OS. The limited stability of current emulation solutions, coupled with the additional time and steps needed to upgrade same just to use PalmOS apps in a partitioned "corner" of WebOS is 100% uncharacteristic of Palm "Zen," which has traditionally differentiated its platform from all others--including Apple's--in ease of use, flexibility, and customization. The extra effort in using palmOS apps in WebOs seems unnecessary and, until now, has prevented me from adopting/embracing WebOS. I offer these comments and suggestions as an end-user, not as a developer, who has happily relied on palm solutions since 1999, both in my clinical and applied work as a Ph.D. scientist and consultant, and as a PDA/smartphone consumer.
RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
mikecane @ 4/29/2010 3:25:34 PM # Q
Oh man, give up the Classic OS stuff. It's up the DEVS to port them to webOS, not up to Palm or hp to continue the legacy hassle. Use Classic for webOS -- that's as good as it will get. hp didn't pay money to bring back old code!
RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
MikeT5 @ 4/29/2010 4:03:50 PM # Q
You're probably right about the reasons why developers are reticent about using/exporting old palmOS code in WebOS devices. Still, I will hold-off switching to the new platform until HP/Palm has had the opportunity to retool its hardware/software in its new line of devices. Hopfully, by that time enough developers will have had the time to write their programs in native WebOS code, minimizing reliance on Classic--if, indeed, it remains the only viable emulation option. My comment, above, wasn't lamenting the loss of palmOS/apps, so much as the loss of "Zen" that has resulted in how those apps are accessed and used in Classic--not so tragic in the end, but a little inconvenient.
RE: OMG! Old Palm Bought New Palm!
mikecane @ 4/29/2010 4:56:48 PM # Q
Ah, yes, the Zen. Aside from calling up and using the Cards, there is hardly any damned Zen in webOS.

And having fondled hp's TouchSmart desktops, there's a serious lack of the ken of Zen on their end too!

Maybe Palm has been listening to all of the No Zen complaints and has a list list of things to fix and will get on them once the hp deal is all done.

Well, I can dream.

Reply to this comment

HP 200 LX

e_tellurian @ 4/28/2010 6:38:07 PM # Q
To some this unit revolutionized the way some did business and process corporate content into their work flow ... good memories.

HP is really going into its past knowledge with a new platform. HP has a strong history of building handheld devices.

Palm stays a North American pioneer with more thought from another pioneer in the handheld industry a good fit.

Good to know for those of us that do not speak Chinese that we can continue to think in a language we understand while utilizing translation technology to communicate with the planet.

Congratulation To HP and Palm.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: HP 200 LX
richf @ 4/28/2010 7:11:17 PM # Q
This is great. I've had some super hp devices in the past and they were absolutely wonderful. Some of the hp stuff I loved-hp 38, hp 41, hp 70, hp 75. These computers were built like a tank and performed like an expensive swiss watch. Loved them.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
RE: HP 200 LX
e_tellurian @ 4/28/2010 7:58:44 PM # Q
Not only is there more capital for Palm also enthusiasm.

HP certainly has a great history with handhelds. The 200 LX was capable of doing all my corporate business. People at the firm i worked with were amazed at what that little computer could do for the quality and efficiency of my work. One could customize the fields in the day when we used forms. It made the work look very professional and was lucky the firm i worked with was so open minded and let me use my little 200 LX for my work. Even though i was the only one, they were very forward thinking.

In the future HP and Palm together will be very exciting as they have so much in common as pioneers in the handheld market.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

Reply to this comment

And suddenly I'm interested in Palm again

justauser @ 4/28/2010 7:19:46 PM # Q
With WebOS still far from Australian shores and by most reports almost dead, I switched to WM6 (and loved it I'm sad to say). So glad to hear Palm will live another day. Perhaps HP will speed a Pre2 to our little gadget starved country
RE: And suddenly I'm interested in Palm again
jodihansen @ 4/28/2010 7:52:47 PM # Q
It's not so easy to buy a Palm over here...the only option these days is eBay to get unlocked GSM ones (and even then, I can only see the Pre and not the Pre Plus). The carriers over here just don't have them anymore (although we may be able to find a Centro or Treo 750). For this reason, it would be good to see an unlocked HP-Palm Pre Plus that I can buy directly from HP-Palm.
Reply to this comment

Hmm. I'm actually happy about this

Adif @ 4/28/2010 7:58:42 PM # Q
Until now I was hoping against hope that Palm could somehow come up with a way to stay independent, but the prospect of HP buying them out doesn't seem to bother me. From using HP laser printers for 20 years and HP laptops for ten, my impression of HP is that they really try hard to put together solid, reliable products. I find their laptops to be especially user-friendly compared to the POS Dell's that always wind up being issued through work. If these aspects of HP get rubbed off on Palm, that would be a wonderful thing.
Reply to this comment

A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:

Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/28/2010 8:44:43 PM # Q
A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:

1) Palm absolutely needed to make a deal this quarter. They would have had to announce an utterly disastrous quarter in a couple of months and this would have taken all remaining wind out of their sails. All of their carrier partners now or soon will have other marquee smartphones that have pushed the Pre and Pixi aside, so sales for the next four months would be essentially nonexistent for Palm, resulting again in a disastrous picture the following quarter.

2) webOS is a means of differentiating products in an increasingly commoditized market. HP recognizes this and will hopefully invest the resources needed to QUICKLY develop and properly market webOS.

3) As will soon be seen with Android and iPhone OS, webOS much more than a smartphone OS. Tablets and netbooks running these non-Windows operating systems are going to potentially threaten the Wintel hegemony. As a massive corporation with equally massive resources, HP offers Palm the opportunity to quickly launch webOS on a variety of products, including tablets and netbooks. The customization needed to create webOS devices will be a trivial matter for HP.

FOLEO 2 LIVES!!!

4) Bradley was actually with Palm for several years before he left and eventually joined HP in 2005 (and successfully impacted their mobile division). I didn't think he would survive, but obviously he has learned how to take care of himself in the dog eat dog corporate world. Bradley now has the golden opportunity to turn webOS into a massive game changer, which Microsoft would be wise to watch closely.

5) HP needs to make absolutely sure that every single webOS device released from now on is rock solid in terms of hardware quality, build and OS stability.

6) A lot more details need to be clarified about this deal. Elevation Partners is supposedly going to make a pittance ($20 million) from its massive $400 + million gamble on Palm. As it stands, the math regarding the shareprice payouts does not compute. I suspect Elevation Partners will be getting the equivalent of nearly two common shares for every one of their preferred shares. The total value of the deal will probably be around $1.6 million - assuming the announced $1.2 million payoff isn't a communal trough where Elevation Partners gets to stuff themselves until they are happy that they've recovered their original investment. Elevation Partners should thank their lucky stars that someone stepped up to buy Palm at this stage of the game. Had HP and the other potential suitors played hardball and waited another quarter, Palm could probably have been purchased for well under $500 million. Of course, this would have resulted in the Palm brand being further damaged by negative press. So HP blinked. Still, waiting would risk losing out on the betting to someone else. Overpaying for Palm now in order to lock up the deal early is reasonable for a company like HP that can afford to blow $1 billion not being patient.

7) Palm-HP needs to now focus on their end users (rather than the carriers) as being their main customers. For the past year Palm has been living off of the CES 2009 webOS/Pre buzz, but they have shown over and over again that they're incapable of delivering actual product that lives up the promise offered by the initial demo. Unlike end users, carriers do not have infinite patience with smartphone companies that fail to deliver the goods. Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, T-Mobile etc. are not Palm/webOS fanbois - if Palm can't deliver the goods then the competition from Microsoft and Google can just as easily be tapped to provide smartphone operating systems and Apple is a known quantity that is quickly becoming an absolute juggernaut.


FJH

RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
LiveFaith @ 4/28/2010 9:06:31 PM # Q
I wonder if the Palm name remains alive or will it now become the HP Pixi? They swallowed Compaq and kept the iPaq nameplate on their way to eradicating the most successful WinMob line in existance.

This is not an easy marriage from a cultural standpoint. Does HP allow "west coast" creativity, or do they take over and turn WebOS into just another stodgy blue tooth in the cog? It would be a shame to see the Palm name be destroyed.
Pat Horne

RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
hkklife @ 4/28/2010 9:14:44 PM # Q
Don't forget--along with Symbol & Acceeca, HP is the last man standing for an "old school" PDA (I'm not counting iPod Touch or various PMP/MIDs) :

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/215348-215348-64929-314903-215384.html


Full circle, baby!!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
analogue wings @ 4/28/2010 10:31:05 PM # Q
I've worked with those PDA only iPaqs and they really only exist because of enterprise customers who invested a buttload in custom Windows Mobile software and were cheezed off when HP dropped the iPaq PDAs in 05 or whenever.

They basically have "old school" specs at prices that look pretty silly compared to what you pay for a super duper smartphone on contract.

HP isn't making PDAs because there is a viable current market for PDAs in the business world, they are basically just making them to keep certain of their bigger enterprise accounts happy.
IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650 -> HTC TyTN II :(

RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
hkklife @ 4/28/2010 11:47:20 PM # Q
I know that, I was just being silly and a bit tongue-in-cheek for the old school PDA diehards on here.

Yup, while those specs on the iPaq 210 were monumentally impressive 2.5 years or so ago or whenever they were announced, smartphones have finally reached a point where they can trump a dedicated PDA in every conceivable area, including storage capacity and screen size/resolution.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/29/2010 2:25:20 AM # Q
I wonder if the Palm name remains alive or will it now become the HP Pixi? They swallowed Compaq and kept the iPaq nameplate on their way to eradicating the most successful WinMob line in existance.

Keep It Simple Stupid:

Palm Treo by HP

Palm Centro by HP

Palm Slate by HP (webOS tablet-convertible netbook)

"webOS powered" can be printed on the back of the device to increase OS name recognition without confusing with too many names upfront.


Palm hardware has been utter crap for a decade, but the brand survived in spite of this - initially because customers were incredibly loyal to PalmOS, then later because Treo was the best smartphone around. In 2010 that loyalty/goodwill has now been completely used up, as even the most faithful PalmOS fans have given up waiting for Palm to give them some decent hardware. The (reluctant) exodus of so many longtime PalmOS useres (like hkklife) to Android and iPhone devices says a LOT about Palm. And with dozens of impressively-specced smartphones now on or soon coming to the market like the HTC Incredible, iPhone, HTC EVO, etc. there's ZERO tolerance for second rate hardware or software these days. RIM, for example would die a swift death if only people could easily use iPhone and HTC Android phone hardware with the backend RIM email software.

This is not an easy marriage from a cultural standpoint. Does HP allow "west coast" creativity, or do they take over and turn WebOS into just another stodgy blue tooth in the cog? It would be a shame to see the Palm name be destroyed.

I disagree. The "marriage" is simple. Think of webOS as a beautiful, intelligent young lady that was tragically born into a totally trailer trash family. HP is now engaged to webOS and needs to send webOS to finishing school ASAP, clean it up , and dress it up in some haute couture. And HP needs to immediatly cut off ALL contact with the trailer trash parents (ALL Palm executives and managers). The webOS designers/architects and coders are the ONLY people of any use at Palm. EVERYONE else will be axed.

Within 6 months, HP should release the following webOS devices:

1) HTC EVO-like (or better) smartphone in both CDMA and unlocked GSM flavors
2) Centro 2-like smartphone with 1 GHz Snapdragon in both CDMA and unlocked GSM flavors
3) Mini tablet-convertible netbook in Foleo form factor that can automatically and intelligently sync all data between a corresponding webOS smartphone +/- cloud-based data. Sync is the key to webOS, and having an OS that can quickly sync data between laptop/desktop and smartphone environments is the "killer ap" that Hawkins had proposed but Palm had been technically unable to deliver with the stillborn Foleo.
Have your email automatically pushed to your webOS EVO. Press a button and it wirelessly syncs everything to your webOS Foleo that is running the exact same apps scaled up to the bigger screen. Press a button on the Foleo while connected to the Internet (via ethernet or via Wi-Fi to the webOS EVO's hotspot connection) and sync your files to an online backup/mirror (hosted centrally at HP for a fee or on your own Windows-based server. Both smartphone and mini tablet-convertible netbook have SD card expansion and user configurable automatic backup software which include options to do timed backups to both SD card and to cloud profile.

HP suddenly has the building blocks needed to start making Microsoft irrelevant. Jeff Hawkins had the vision 7 years ago, but Palm lacked the resourcer to put it all together. HP has the money, the OS, the engineers and the time needed to bring this to reality. Only problem is that Google is on the same track and charging full speed ahead. Google's folly was that they were too lazy to become a hardware vendor as well (witness the sudden abandonment of the Google Nexus One), so they gave Android away as a means of quickly gaining marketshare and to get as many hardware vendors as possible onboard with Android. This - along with the multiple variants of Android - led to a fractured platform. By controlling ALL of the hardware and software, HP can avoid a similar confusion befalling webOS.

Exciting times ahead. So much potential. Hopefully HP will reach out and mend bridges with developers, while also including a STABLE PalmOS emulator (and classic Graffiti???) in webOS ASAP as a humble apology to abandoned PalmOS faithful. And bring back Jeff Hawkins and Rob Haitani to help architect the Big Picture (Sync Framework) and the Little Picture (User Interface).

"One piece of advice that I give to people about designing for the Palm OS is, if you can really understand your customer think of the one thing they want to do most frequently and make that a one step process, then I guarantee people will like that product."

Rob Haitani

FJH
- Foleo Father, vindicated at last

RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
abosco @ 4/29/2010 5:26:50 AM # Q
HP suddenly has the building blocks needed to start making Microsoft irrelevant. Jeff Hawkins had the vision 7 years ago, but Palm lacked the resourcer to put it all together. HP has the money, the OS, the engineers and the time needed to bring this to reality. Only problem is that Google is on the same track and charging full speed ahead. Google's folly was that they were too lazy to become a hardware vendor as well (witness the sudden abandonment of the Google Nexus One), so they gave Android away as a means of quickly gaining marketshare and to get as many hardware vendors as possible onboard with Android. This - along with the multiple variants of Android - led to a fractured platform. By controlling ALL of the hardware and software, HP can avoid a similar confusion befalling webOS.

Apple was curiously left out of this entire paragraph. They beat both Palm and Android to market with a desktop-class OS in a smartphone, as well as a successful tablet based on the same platform.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
mikecane @ 4/29/2010 6:29:13 AM # Q
>>>Mini tablet-convertible netbook in Foleo form factor

Pffft. It's a TABLET. You want a goddam keyboard, pair a Bluetooth one -- or use the USB port.

RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
LiveFaith @ 4/29/2010 7:56:47 PM # Q
I don't see all the tablet love. I tinkered with the iPad the other day and it is really cool. Cool will sell, but I still can't see day in and out usage on the slate being advantageous. I see advantages her and there, but compared to my Asus EeePC 1008 it does not compare.
I type this nice and relaxed with my resting on my lap. And not a stupid detachable keyboard to leave on the chair.
Pat Horne
RE: A few random thoughts about an interesting deal:
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/29/2010 8:45:41 PM # Q
I don't see all the tablet love. I tinkered with the iPad the other day and it is really cool. Cool will sell, but I still can't see day in and out usage on the slate being advantageous. I see advantages her and there, but compared to my Asus EeePC 1008 it does not compare.
I type this nice and relaxed with my resting on my lap. And not a stupid detachable keyboard to leave on the chair.

Well said. The iPad has made tablets suddenly seem cool, whereas 2 months ago you couldn't GIVE a tablet away. I've used Tablet PCs regularly for around 4 years and feel that a convertible webOS netbook/tablet makes more sense. The keyboard is "key" for any tablet not named iPad.

These form factors make sense to me:

1) Palm Centro/Treo Pro
2) Motorola Razr
3) Sony CLIE UX50
4) Palm TX
5) HTC EVO
6) Samsung NC10
7) Lenovo X200

For a device as big as the iPad to make sense to me it needs a permanent physical keyboard. Otherwise users are forced to make needless compromises. Of course, throwing an Apple logo on anything seems to turn the Reality Distortion Field dial to 11...


FJH

Reply to this comment

Branding thoughts

analogue wings @ 4/28/2010 10:24:57 PM # Q
Can I get in early with a little prediction?

"webOS" to be renamed simply "Palm"

HP have 3 brands to juggle, HP, Palm and webOS. Palm has too much clout to dump and they aren't going to not put HP badges on their devices.

WebOS describes an OS that many admire but only geeks really know it has a name independent from "Palm", so that brand's out the window.

HP bought the Palm "experience", the "zen of Palm" as they used to say. Keep the trustworthy HP badge on the hardware and use "Palm" to brand that all important experience.

Solution: "The HP Pre2 with Palm"

IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650 -> HTC TyTN II :(

RE: Branding thoughts
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/29/2010 12:50:46 AM # Q
Keep It Simple Stupid:

Palm Treo by HP

Palm Centro by HP

Palm Slate by HP (webOS tablet-convertible netbook)

"webOS powered" can be printed on the back of the device to increase OS name recognition without confusing with too many names upfront.

RE: Branding thoughts
jca666us @ 4/29/2010 4:21:45 AM # Q
How long will it be before HP guts the Palm name and assimilates Palm into the HP Collective?

I'd guess 18 months.

RE: Branding thoughts
analogue wings @ 4/29/2010 3:00:46 PM # Q
I think you meant "Keep it Fanboi Stupid"

I don't see what's simple about co-branding your hardware and I don't think HP's ever done the "by HP" thing with any of their other thousands of acquisitions.
IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650 -> HTC TyTN II :(

RE: Branding thoughts
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/29/2010 7:43:54 PM # Q
I think you meant "Keep it Fanboi Stupid"

I don't see what's simple about co-branding your hardware and I don't think HP's ever done the "by HP" thing with any of their other thousands of acquisitions.

1) The Palm name still is recognized and generates goodwill amonsgst millions of former PalmOS users.

2) HP is trying to break into a space where they have no history or experience.

Yes, they can assimilate the Palm brands immediately and lose all of that feel-good association just to present a unified brand. HP has a history of destroying seminal brands, as it did with iPAQ after the Compaq merger. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPAQ


Hopefully this time around they'll be smarter than you.

FJH

RE: Branding thoughts
analogue wings @ 4/29/2010 8:50:06 PM # Q
"The Palm name still is recognized and generates goodwill amonsgst millions of former PalmOS users."

...which is kind of why I suggested that they keep using it.


IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650 -> HTC TyTN II :(

Pre versus Treo - which has better name recognition?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/29/2010 8:55:11 PM # Q
"The HP Pre2 with Palm"

versus


Palm Treo by HP

Palm Centro by HP

Palm Slate by HP


Don't give up the day job, Sport.


FJH

RE: Branding thoughts
hkklife @ 4/29/2010 10:08:54 PM # Q
Litigation risk aside, may I even humbly suggest a return to the original for the WebOS-powered Slate device (whether convertible netbook tablet or pure tablet): "Palm Pilot by HP"

And, while we're at it, can HP please ditch that creepy skeletal font they've been using? It looks like something a 2nd grader would scrawl for a Halloween party invitation or, at best, that woul adorn the cover of a children's ghoulies novel!

The most pent-up goodwill Palm still has resides in the "Treo", "Centro" and "Palm Pilot" branding. In fact, I STILL on occasion hear people refer to any kind of touchscreen + stylus handheld device as a "Palm Pilot" (some middle-aged delivery man wielding a Palm OS 3-based Symbol unit being the most notable recent instance that I can recall).
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

Reply to this comment

Almost bought a Pre+

Tere @ 4/29/2010 10:09:13 AM # Q
A couple of weeks ago, when Vzn dropped the charge for mobile hop spot service and the 2-for-1 price of the Pre+ was $50, I was trying to talk my wife into switching. We wen to the Vzn store and looked at them, but by them Palm's future looked dire and I didn't want to (yet again) come lat to the party and get a handful of obsolete hardware. I couldn't bring myself to do it.

THIS news makes me glad I didn't. I think this is a fantastic move for Palm. While I wouldn't have had an orphan phone, I'd rather wait for HP hardware. And if it goes to Sprint, I won't have to change providers. I look forward to great new products, I hope HP stays out of Palm's way software wise, and I hope the tragic marketing past for WebOS products is a truly in the past.

- Tere

RE: Almost bought a Pre+
hkklife @ 4/29/2010 10:41:42 AM # Q
Don't be surprised to see a halo effect in the immediate short-term surrounding the acquisition news:

-VZW doubles WebOS hardware prices & drops the Hotspot feature after people such as Tere feel "safe" about buying a new Palm device on a 2yr contract. Sales suddenly experience a mild spike and VZW acts accordingly to capitalize on this.

-Sprint starts dropping "hints" about the C40 within the next month or two.

-AT&T makes more hoopla than would occured otherwise about the Pre & Pixi Plus. By all accounts, aren't those still scheduled to arrive May 10th? FWIW, I saw the "live moves fast" lady walking down the street w/ the superimposed Google map in front of her ad last night on TNT during the NBA playoffs. It was branded with both VZW, Sprint, Best Buy and Radio Shack--so perhaps a sort of "one ad fits all"??

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: Almost bought a Pre+
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/29/2010 8:23:04 PM # Q
Don't be surprised to see a halo effect in the immediate short-term surrounding the acquisition news:

-VZW doubles WebOS hardware prices & drops the Hotspot feature after people such as Tere feel "safe" about buying a new Palm device on a 2yr contract. Sales suddenly experience a mild spike and VZW acts accordingly to capitalize on this.

They have a ton of inventory of a poorly-made phone that has specs that are clearly not competitive with most of the marquee smartphones that will be on each carrier by July 1, 2010. Unless they think people are completely blind Verizon won't mess around in clearing out their Pre inventory.

Show 100 people an iPhone, an HTC Incredible and an HTC EVO and how many do you think will opt for the Pre? 2? 5? Every month that goes by makes the Pre a harder sell. Its "Best Before" date suggests the Pre went rancid sometime in November, 2009.

-Sprint starts dropping "hints" about the C40 within the next month or two.

Hints? It's supposed to be released this summer. But there's that small matter of 500,000 unsold Pre in the pipeline. You remember the "Osborne effect" and the "m505 effect"? Announcing the next webOS device now will just increase the number of Pre and Pixi that will be dumped in Palm's landfill later this year. Palm will probably have to take at least a $100 million charge to dispose of the extra inventory this quarter (or eles cut a deal to add it to the HP purchase price).

-AT&T makes more hoopla than would occured otherwise about the Pre & Pixi Plus. By all accounts, aren't those still scheduled to arrive May 10th? FWIW, I saw the "live moves fast" lady walking down the street w/ the superimposed Google map in front of her ad last night on TNT during the NBA playoffs. It was branded with both VZW, Sprint, Best Buy and Radio Shack--so perhaps a sort of "one ad fits all"??

Doesn't AT&T carry iPhone? And didn't that phone singlehandedly bring several million customers into the AT&T fold? And isn't a new iPhone due to be released this summer? I'd be SHOCKED if AT&T sold more than 100,000 Pre/Pixi in the next year.

FJH

RE: Almost bought a Pre+
SeldomVisitor @ 4/30/2010 4:14:58 AM # Q
> ...I'd be SHOCKED if AT&T sold more than 100,000 Pre/Pixi in the next year.

Palm says they're gonna do $90,000,000 worth of business this quarter.

At an ASP (Average Selling Price) of, say, $300 (since they said margins would be low) that works out to 300,000 phones (probably all Pres). That set of Pres was bought by ALL of Palm's customers this quarter that include SFR and AT&T. The likelihood of reorders is not high, ESPECIALLY now.


RE: Almost bought a Pre+
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/30/2010 7:37:11 AM # Q
Yes I read the filings. This quarter is about as ugly as can be imagined. The chickens have finally come home to roost for Palm.

The Perfect Storm:

- Channel stuffing for MONTHS to prop up "sales" figures.
- Shoddy construction quality angering longtime customers and carriers
- Incompetent management
- Shady "accounting" (was Mr. Brown too ethical?)
- Insufficient number of engineers to meet essential timelines or to compete with Android and iPhone OS development
- Unimpressed carriers (most of which are passing on placing any significant new orders after having been burned by the disappointing Pre and Pixi over the past year)
- Poor sales, rapidly imploding
- High return rate
- Limited product range - no PDAs or other non-phone products = no revenues once carriers stop buying
- Panicky CEO (Insulting Verizon publicly? Real smart there, Rubes...)
- Apple's iPhone juggernaut about to get even bigger
- Relentless competition from a horde of upcoming Android phones like HTC Incredible and HTC EVO that make Palm's current hardware look ridiculous
- All carriers have moved on to feature non-Palm devices as their marquee phones

And more. Palm would likely have had to do something to dispose of several hundred thousand unwanted, outdated Pre and Pixi this summer. Taking a charge would have eaten a large chunk of its dwindling cash reserves, with no prospects for increased revenues any time soon. Furthermore, Sprint is probably the only remaining carrier that will place a significant order with Palm for the rest of 2010. The company would have had to let go most of its staff or else secure another cash infusion to keep operating the same in 2010.
Ugly doesn't even begin to describe Palm's current quarter.

FJH

RE: Almost bought a Pre+
e_tellurian @ 4/30/2010 8:15:15 AM # Q
FJH, as i have said before there are people that want Palm to fail, there are people that wish Palm would fail and now it seems still people that try to will Palm to fail.

It is time to move on Palm is still a viable brand that specializes in making handheld devices. North America has retained a North America pioneer that help to build an industry many have done well by.

Freedom of speech is a great choice that offers interaction. Unfortunately freedom of speech does not exist in all nations. Many come to North America to practice their freedom of speech it's nice to know there are optimists too.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

Reply to this comment

HP + Palm

VampireLestat @ 5/2/2010 11:24:30 AM # Q
This is good news.

I used to buy all my wm pdas from hp.com. Even though wm sucked, I always had a good experience with hp.

I am looking forward to the possibility of going to hp.com and buying a Palm pda or unlocked gsm smartphone.

For me, hp inspires long term stability and reliability.

Good news.

RE: HP + Palm
VampireLestat @ 5/2/2010 11:36:03 AM # Q
To Mr Bradley at HP/Palm, :)

If you are reading this, I want a WebOS pda. If Apple can sell iTouches, then HP/Palm can also.

I am interested in music, movies and PIM. I use my iTouch for the music + video, but I prefer classic PalmOS for PIM (I have not tried WebOS yet). If HP/Palm comes out with an iTouch competitor, I will be watching.

RE: HP + Palm
jca666us @ 5/2/2010 5:19:24 PM # Q
HP needs to sell devices that can command a price premium, so they can make money.

Let's see a whole range of webos devices. As long as HP doesn't support windows 7, then webos should take off.

Reply to this comment

News

richf @ 6/1/2010 6:05:50 AM # Q
Just saw this. Gotta do something, waiting on UPS for that new Pre. Hope it does not affect the Palm buy. Read here...http://apnews.excite.com/article/20100601/D9G2FD100.html.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
RE: News
richf @ 6/1/2010 6:22:37 AM # Q
Sorry link doesn't work. Excite must be sensitive about linking. Try this...http://apnews.excite.com/article/20100601/D9G2G55G0.html
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
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