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Comments on: HP TouchPad Release Date and Pricing Leaked?

HP Touchpad release date pricing info According to the Boy Genius Report, an anonymous tipster has revealed leaked pricing and release dates for HP's new WebOS 3.0-powered TouchPad. The device is reportedly slated to hit the market by the end of June carrying a $699 price tag. While the exact memory, carrier partners, and radio configuration of this particular TouchPad price point is not specified, it's widely assumed that $699 will represent the 32GB + 3G version, undercutting a comparable-equipped 1st-generation iPad by $30 while bringing a dual-core CPU and a front-facing camera to the party.

This pricing structure places HP in a somewhat odd spot occupying the upper-midrange of the currently available tablets. The reported $699 figure for the Touchpad is $100 to 200 above the lowest-cost Wi-Fi iPads that comprises the majority of the platform's sales volume. Conversely, $699 puts the TouchPad only $100 below the higher-spec'd Android Honeycomb-based Xoom from Motorola. With the annual iPad refresh anticipated in April and the Xoom arriving next week, HP's TouchPad may lose much of its early buzz in the transition from an early February announcement to late June retail availability.

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The Secret Reason HP Needs The TouchPad To Be A Success

Gekko @ 2/15/2011 12:26:54 PM # Q

There are a lot of reasons HP wants its iPad-clone, the TouchPad, to be a success, but one reason we hadn't thought of until now was how tablets will affect the sales of printers and print supplies.

The more people use tablets, the less they print out documents, says Morgan Stanley in a big report on the tablet market.

Specifically, Morgan Stanley says, "Printing behavior is structurally changing; we expect a reduction in enterprise and commercial printing."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/02/15/businessinsider-the-reason-hp-needs-the-touchpad-to-be-a-success-2011-2.DTL#ixzz1E3rcwAMt


RE: The Secret Reason HP Needs The TouchPad To Be A Success
mikecane @ 2/15/2011 12:47:54 PM # Q
Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't ever considered that angle. But who really thinks of printers these days? When was the last time you printed something out? (Well, OK, not *you personally*, you pr0n perv with your DIY posters, but someone normal!)
RE: The Secret Reason HP Needs The TouchPad To Be A Success
bhartman34 @ 2/15/2011 3:14:48 PM # Q
I hadn't printed out anything in a while, but I've started to do it more often. I've been looking for a job, so I was printing out my resume pretty regularly to take to interviews. And I'm involved in a writers' group, and they're very much attached to the idea of reading from paper, for some reason.

I don't think that tablets (or anything else that's come out in the past 10 years or so) has gotten us any closer to a paperless office. At best, maybe it's gotten us a little bit closer to a paperless home.

RE: The Secret Reason HP Needs The TouchPad To Be A Success
Gekko @ 2/15/2011 4:54:25 PM # Q

i'm not sure tablets themselves are a big factor yet but they probably will be. i think that the advent of the internet itself has reduced all kinds of printing -

1. electronic paperless billing.
2. internet product materials.
3. internet advertising (vs. paper).
4. "just email it to me" mentality in business.
5. online instruction manuals.

i'm sure the list goes on and on but as the example the previous poster gave (Doctor's Office) - the tablet will probably further drive this trend.

personally i hate the waste and inefficiency and abuse of paper.

RE: The Secret Reason HP Needs The TouchPad To Be A Success
mikecane @ 2/15/2011 6:01:36 PM # Q
Also, eBook readers. No more printing out crap. Read it on a device, either eInk or via phone app.
RE: The Secret Reason HP Needs The TouchPad To Be A Success
nastebu @ 2/15/2011 9:37:32 PM # Q
I don't know. Judging by how often I get handed piles of pointlessly printed paper at work, made easy to do by fast and widely available laser printers, I'd be shocked if the per capita number of printed pages were going down.
RE: The Secret Reason HP Needs The TouchPad To Be A Success
mikecane @ 2/19/2011 8:58:14 AM # Q
That's work and you mentioned laser printer. People at home tend to have inkjets.
RE: The Secret Reason HP Needs The TouchPad To Be A Success
CFreymarc @ 3/14/2011 1:09:03 AM # Q
It is not all doom and gloom for the printer market but definately compromsed. The tablet market is still pricey. IMO, I see the middle ground of printers dissapearing but the high and low end I expect to say the same.

Low end: For those that can't afford tablets and will still print in their el-chepo ink jet printers connected to a gallon jug of printer ink.

Middle end: the "print only" middle quality printer will be replaced by multifunctional devices such as combination printers and scanners.

High end: high quality printers that have resolutions and page sizes greater than the screens of tablets.

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dozens

Gekko @ 2/15/2011 12:27:50 PM # Q

they'll sell dozens!!!


RE: dozens
CFreymarc @ 2/17/2011 12:20:48 AM # Q
What if someone made an webOS tablet and on one came?
Reply to this comment

WTF?! Old news!

mikecane @ 2/15/2011 12:46:22 PM # Q
Here I thought I was coming from Twitter to see something new -- and it's the BGR report of the 11th! Keep up or stop following days later.
RE: WTF?! Old news!
Gekko @ 2/15/2011 1:03:36 PM # Q

that twitter is rotting your brain 140 characters at a time.

Reply to this comment

good luck

linds @ 2/15/2011 1:40:54 PM # Q
I laugh at the new pricing structures that have come out of late. Engadget had a couple of sources saying that the xoom would be over $1,100. I really think apple priced their tablet too low to start off with. At the same time tablets might not have take off if Apple had started with such a low price. My prediction is the next apple tablet will be at least $300 more expensive, if it isn't then android tablets/touch pads will have to come down in order to compete. IPAD market penetration is amazing, my doctor was using one in place of the old thick manila folders. If Ipad can penetrate the Doctors world this quickly then wow is all I can say, or good luck to the competition.
RE: good luck
Gekko @ 2/15/2011 2:29:12 PM # Q

Xoom will be $800.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/06/best-buy-ad-prices-motorola-xoom-at-800-affirms-february-24th/

IMO any tablet that does not match or beat iPad's basic specs and price will fail.

RE: good luck
hkklife @ 2/15/2011 2:40:02 PM # M Q
Amen to everything Gekko said! Never before in modern tech history (ie post iPhone launch in 2007) have I been so mystified at all of these so-called "name players" missing the boat over and over and over on pricepoints and specs.

A 16GB wi-fi Xoom or Touchpad at $500 would STILL be no guaranteed success against the comparably priced iPad. At $700+ these things will be as dead as WebTV or Audrey....or the Fooleo.

RE: good luck
bhartman34 @ 2/15/2011 3:41:14 PM # Q
At $700+ these things will be as dead as WebTV or Audrey....or the Fooleo.

In all fairness, nothing could be as dead as the Foleo. They never even launched the damn thing. :)

RE: good luck
Gekko @ 2/15/2011 4:55:08 PM # Q

stillborn? Cobalt? ALP?

RE: good luck
mikecane @ 2/15/2011 6:04:41 PM # Q
>>>IMO any tablet that does not match or beat iPad's basic specs and price will fail.

Yes. Apple must have locked in very good supply contracts to crush the price down as it has.

But then all these other companies are always looking to put a slice of cheese on their business with higher prices. Look at how no one really matched Palm's PDA prices (although at $500 for the damn LifeDrive, Palm was price bloating to Pocket PC levels).

RE: good luck
Gekko @ 2/15/2011 6:12:27 PM # Q

slice of cheese. i like that one - i'll have to use it.

it's funny how everyone criticizes Apple products for be arrogantly and obnoxiously overpriced and buyers having to pay an "Apple tax" - and Apple demanding and getting a premium price - yet when you look at the iPad at $499 - and even the iPhone at $199 - there's extreme industry-changing value pricing there setting the bar pretty high for all others to try to jump (low price/high value).

perhaps it's part of the first mover strategy - price it cheap - get the market share - get the developers - get the apps - get more market share - crush the competition - raise volumes and economies of scale and market share - positive spiral - rinse and repeat.

RE: good luck
nastebu @ 2/15/2011 9:34:07 PM # Q
One funny thing about Apple is that they rarely cut prices. That habit has earned them the "apple tax" reputation, but it also means that the Apple brand is very stable.

Compare that strategy to Palm's attempt to differentiate between an upper tier Pre and a lower tier Pixie, which collapses as Pre's dropped in price.

RE: good luck
LiveFaith @ 2/15/2011 10:15:38 PM # Q
That's the deal. Apple put a smackdown on the market by placing excellent (and I mean excellent) hardware at the $199 price point. A optimized OS and huge ecosystem makes anyone else look like fools for selling above $200.

The squashes the also-rans like the plasticky Pre well below the $199, and leaves almost no room for the Pixi. For $50 more who would go with less of a device when the TCO over 2 years is a lot of money with data plan. The Pixi has no home.

But, none of that history helped HP with it's decision making. What do the new stewards of the mighty WebOS do? Set up a giant hypefest only to announce ANOTHER 'Pixi', and announce another lackluster "Pre clone', and then top it all off with a gigantic cherry called "in the coming months".

Bewildering!

As far as the Touchpad goes. Rest assured Apple will bring better and more powerful hardware to the iPad2 by the time the HP sees the light of day. But that's ABSOLUTELY NOT the problem.

The problem is in this question. Why would consumers be compelled to buy the Touchpad, when they could have an iPad a similar price. The iPad will come stock with #1 Prestige (never underestimate this) #2 A relatively monstrous apps portfolio #3 An ecosystem that has made it to main street and is recognized by the unwashed masses. What feature does the Touchpad have that would make anyone reject the iPad in favor of it? Printing? Multi-tasking? Integration with a phone OS nobody uses? Plastic? Really?

HP does have popularity no doubt. But in this arena they are just an also-ran. They have to leapfrog and offer compelling reasons to compell consumers. They have shown exactly NONE. And to watch them tell lies on top of lies, alienating their already ghastly user base, is unreal.

Over at PreCentral, they have been running a poll to guage interest in the VZW Pre2. Of all respondents, only 7% either have or plan to get the device. These are the platforms fanboys! Only 1:14 rabid WebOS fans have / plan to buy the ONLY flagship device of the platform. And it is the ONLY device that carries the current living OS. WebOS 1.x is now officially dead. How exactly does HP expect to build anything when their will be hardly anyone on the living platform for 5 months? iPhone 4 will be $99 at VZW and ATT by the time the Pre3 even gets to market.

Good luck HP, you're gonna need lots of it "in the coming months".
Pat Horne

RE: good luck
Gekko @ 2/16/2011 8:05:36 AM # Q

wow - you're almost as bitter as Vampire Boy.

RE: good luck
bhartman34 @ 2/16/2011 12:56:18 PM # Q
@Pat:

I don't think the relatively non-existent interest in the Pre 2 on Verizon among the PreCentral crowd shows a lack of interest in the platform. What you failed to mention is that a full 60% of the respondents on that survey plan to get the Pre 3 or the Veer.

Now, that in itself is remarkable to me, considering the fact that I think a lot of what you say about WebOS lacking an app ecosystem should be blatantly obvious to them, but I think it demonstrates that a good portion of the Palm faithful remain...faithful. And even that number might go up in the future, if HP actually makes good on their stated intention of rewarding the loyalty of Pre owners. (Obviously, that's a big "if", but the possibility's still out there.)

I'm not really sure what HP was thinking with the TouchPad. Nothing about it looks terrible, but there should have been a lot more software partners lined up for it, and more working app demos. People looking at the TouchPad know how far behind WebOS is in apps right now, and they could've used reassurance.

I don't think the price is necessarily a deal-breaker. The price quoted was almost certainly for the top-of-the-line TouchPad. I don't think that's unreasonable when compared to the iPad.

RE: good luck
hkklife @ 2/16/2011 2:25:01 PM # Q
I can certainly share Pat's frustrations and also sadly fall in line with him as not only a Palm Pessimist, but a scorned/burned Palm Pessimist. Besides, Pat has even more reasons to be sour than the rest of us do because:

1. He's still under contract from his Pre Plus for AT&T purchase
2. He uses a Pre Plus as his daily driver
3. He was really looking forward to a WebOS 2.0 update

Right now, relative to the competition, I'd rate WebOS 2.0 as an OS about a 6.5/10. For hardware, the Veer gets a 2/10, the Pre 2 is a 5/10, the Pre 3 gets a 7.5/10 and the TouchPad probably a 7 or an 8.

As far as the TouchPad price goes, it's too much considering its specs other than the CPU are not an improvement AT ALL over the year-old iPad. Pundits are already claiming the Moto Xoom and the RIM Playbook DOA at price that are comparable or slightly better than equivalent first-gen iPads.

More so than specs, Apple has had an entire year to totally run roughshod over the entire tablet market. They've catptured marketshare and mindshare and sold oodles of the first-gen iPad with relatively weak specs. Can you imagine if they decide to drop the price by $50 or $100 of the 16gb Wi-fi model and keep it around as the entry level iPad? No one is buying 64gb 3G iPads. EVERYONE wants a 16gb wi-fi model or a 32gb wi-fi version if they want to store more stuff on it. You can justify paying more for WWAN connectivity on something you need (smartphone, PC). A tablet falls somewhere between a toy and a luxury "spare" computing device and should be priced accordingly.

If Apple had launched the iPad with ONLY a 32gb or 64gb 3G SKU last year those things would as stillborn as the 25th anniversary Mac. The brilliance of launching a low-margin $500 base model had a reverse halo effect on the pricier iPad SKUs. Instead of cheapening the brand or the line, that single "cheap" iPad convinced a LOT of people to go with a $500 tablet over a $400 netbook last year.

And the strangest part about all of this (at least to me) is how the only carriers fielding non-iOS tablets are these damned phone manufacturers, NOT PC or CE companies! Where was Sony's tablet 6 months ago? Why is Toshiba's tablet taking so long to appear? Samsung? Where are the Asian no-name clones? Where is Dell with a REAL tablet effort? Acer and Asus, two companies that absolutely mopped the floor with an endless array of solid netbooks back in 2007-20010, have done absolutely nothing in the tablet space ...other than stand around and release more netbooks. I don't expect HP's entry to be any different than the others. I also question the value of spending resources to integrate Fooleo-type features of dubious value into the Touchpad.

Transfer a call from my HP smartphone to my Touchpad? Exhibition mode? Please. Instead of all of that foolishness that tried to to trick me into buying two WebOS devices, how about sourcing a higher-qualityresolution or better quality LCD panel or figuring out how to incorporate removable storage into WebOS. Or just give us USB 3.0 or a user-replacable battery.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: good luck
LiveFaith @ 2/16/2011 6:30:28 PM # Q
bhartman,
True about the Pre3 survey. But my point is more concerning WebOS v2. Who is actually USING this OS for the next 3-6 months in NA? A few unlocked GSMers and drunk people who grab a Pre2 at VZW in the midst of a bunch of killer hardware. Seriously, what I'm saying is that HP is (like everyone) clamoring for developers. But who wants to develop for a nice user friendly and powerful platform with no users, aka revenue stream. Not many biggies I can assure you. If M$, Apple, or Google had leaked news that made 60-70% of WebOS users NOT upgrade to the platforms ONLY device, we might call it sabotage. But who needs that when HP did it freely to themselves?

Khris,
Yep, you nailed it. The Touchpad is a pretty attractive device IMO, but like all others has a monumental task ahead in taking iPad market share.

Gekko,
Bitter. Yeah, mainly because I let that dirty rotten scoundrel beat me and abuse me for years, and I stayed b/c he kept telling me he was changing this time. On the 9th, he broke all his promises again and came home drunk singing "Red Neck Woman" with Wild Turkey on his breath and started swinging at me when I asked where he had been. When I brandished the double barrell, I think he finally left for good. I guess I'm a little angry at him, but I'm BITTER about the fact that I stayed with him all these years, singin' "Stand By Your Man".
Signed; the ex-Mrs. Pam Pilate, battered wife
Pat Horne

RE: good luck
bhartman34 @ 2/17/2011 5:31:23 AM # Q
Fair point, Pat. I think HP screwed itself with the timing, and, somewhat ironically, by releasing too many devices. Who in God's name would buy a Pre 2 now, with the Pre3 in sight? Assuming you're staying with WebOS at all, the Pre 2 is certainly the wrong horse to bet on.

As I've said in response to the update checker story, I'm probably done with WebOS unless Sprint provides a very cheap upgrade path from my Pre. But I have to believe that people who bought a Pre Plus at least have a shot at getting an update eventually. I don't think HP would've bothered with an update checker otherwise. I'm sure they understand now how screwed over some people feel. (The only reason I don't feel that way is because I expected to have to upgrade after 2 years.)

When HP bought Palm, I sort of expected them to do a lot more with the software. The changes have been too incremental, and they haven't done enough work either encouraging third party development or developing WebOS software themselves. Maybe I missed it, but I was really expecting some new apps out of WebOS 2.0 (and certainly 3.0), but instead we got refinements of old software and "social integration" of existing software. There were the magazines, of course, but that was for the TouchPad. And I just can't' fathom why they'd want to limit Kindle software to the TouchPad. It would've gone at least some way towards pleasing faithful users if they'd ported the Kindle software to the 1.45 software -- or at least to the 2.0 software. But to leave it for the TouchPad? Eghad! I just don't understand the thought process at all.

I'll see what the EVO 2 brings to the table.


RE: good luck
hotpaw4 @ 2/17/2011 2:50:47 PM # Q
> In all fairness, nothing could be as dead as the Foleo. They never even launched the damn thing. :)

But that doesn't prevent Motorola from cloning the concept (Atrix)!

RE: good luck
bhartman34 @ 2/18/2011 9:57:39 PM # Q
Sadly, the Foleo was actually a little more advanced than the Atrix, in some ways. The Atrix is just a keyboard and display you plug your phone into. The Foleo had an OS of its own. It could actually run applications (although not Palm OS ones). It did this in addition to syncing the screen with the phone.

If the Foleo had just a little more horsepower, it would've been similar to the netbooks that were just around the corner at the time. The lack of Flash video and the price were deal-killers, though. (Does that sound familiar to anyone?)


RE: good luck
Gekko @ 2/18/2011 11:27:29 PM # Q

please stop perpetuating the myth that the fooleo was ahead of its time or ahead of anything of the time. it was a dumb idea and thus aborted.

RE: good luck
bhartman34 @ 2/19/2011 10:09:38 AM # Q
Please notice I never used the words "ahead of its time". I simply compared it to the Atrix, which does considerably less than what the Foleo could do. And if you look at it, it's absolutely true that it would've been similar to a netbook, if it had more horsepower. It was a dumb idea because it didn't have the specs that would've made it a useful netbook, but that in no way contradictory to the idea that it was a precursor to the netbooks that were just around the corner. Other companies came along and finally got the idea right, which Palm failed to do with the Foleo.

http://www.ismashphone.com/2010/07/retrospect-a-look-back-at-the-palms-foleo.html

RE: good luck
Gekko @ 2/19/2011 10:22:29 AM # Q

we have already discussed this here ad nauseum -

1. Netbook-equivalents existed far before the fooleo was ever conceived. hkk can list them all for you if you'd like.
2. fooleo is not a Netbook.
3. fooleo copied Celio Redfly's "Companion" concept.
4. fooleo is a Netbook like a calculator is a smartphone.


RE: good luck
bhartman34 @ 2/19/2011 1:07:40 PM # Q
I think you have the chronology wrong concerning Redfly and Foleo:

http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/ontherun/celio-redfly-could-be-what-the-palm-foleo-wanted-to-be-if-it-grew-up-22017

And the RedFly was just a dumb terminal for your phone. The Foleo could operate independently. The Atrix has more in common w/ Redfly than the Foleo.

I'm not saying that the Foleo was the first netbook, or the only mini-laptop. But neither was it just a detachable keyboard and display, as the Atrix is.

RE: good luck
LiveFaith @ 2/19/2011 10:03:53 PM # Q
I actually liked the concept of the FOLDeo. But, as usual Palm's hardware was the turd in the punchbowl. 416mhz when the identical chip could be had at 612mhz. Even JH whined @ the wimpy specs at the All Things D.

Had this had a WebOS (the other Linux OS they were working on @ the time), horsepower at least approaching the emerging netbook craze, and did some serious real time sync, that could have been a very worthwhile concept IMO.

Then again, looking back at my list, Palm was not close to delivering ANY of that. so who cares. Well, at least we've got the Veer to look forward to.
Pat Horne

RE: good luck
Gekko @ 2/20/2011 4:47:44 AM # Q

the best moment from that whole debacle -

WM Let me get this straight. It won't do the hottest thing on the Web? [They blame the flashware, but its obviously the processor]
JH Let me be clear: it will do it, but not well.
WM When?
JH UHHH...In the future.
JH If I could do it again, I'd put a faster processor in here.

http://gizmodo.com/#!264533/liveblog-palm-foleo-unveil-now?comment=1562805


RE: good luck
LiveFaith @ 3/8/2011 2:06:33 PM # Q
The Fooleo was ahead of it's time, IF Palm had had extremely updated specs in every area as opposed to what they were going to trot out. :-/
Pat Horne
RE: good luck
LiveFaith @ 3/8/2011 2:10:45 PM # Q
Here was my Photoshop on the day of the announcement ... I forgot all about this. Hehe!

http://tinyurl.com/4m54fhh
Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s

Gekko @ 2/17/2011 6:12:45 AM # Q

Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight supply
Yenting Chen and Rebecca Kuo, Taipei; Joseph Tsai, DIGITIMES [Thursday 17 February 2011]

In order to achieve its internal goal of shipping 40 million iPad products in 2011, Apple has occupied close to 60% of the global touch panel capacity causing tight supply among Apple's competitors, according to sources from upstream component makers.

Sources from tablet PC makers also pointed out that the component shortage is causing their shipment volumes to be unable to catch up with their orders, especially for second-tier players. Touch panels are currently suffering the most serious shortage due to Apple holding control over the capacity of major touch panel makers such as Wintek and TPK, and with US-based RIM, Motorola and Hewlett-Packard (HP) also competing for related components, second-tier players are already out of the game, the sources noted.

http://www.digitimes.com/print/a20110216PD219.html

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
LiveFaith @ 2/17/2011 6:15:58 PM # Q
Hey, at least they called HP 1st tier. Best news since they said no more announcing with months before release. Oh wait.
Pat Horne
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
mikecane @ 2/19/2011 9:05:05 AM # Q
Yes, that's what I said way back there about Apple locking in prices and supply. All of the others -- probably including HP and even Sony(!) -- will have to scramble to fight over the crumbs, meaning their screens will cost more and that'll be reflected in the final customer pricing. They will all come in at the start with a price disadvantage.

And what's doubly bizarre is Samsung dropping 7" screens for 10" screens. 7" screen is a niche that would do very well because people like having something smaller they can drop in a bag and tote around. Some people say there isn't that much of a difference between a 4" screen and 7" screen but that's baloney. I'm disappointed HP didn't show a 7" TouchPad too, although one has been rumored. HP could have locked in a huge supply of 7" screens and addressed a market Apple has chosen to ignore.

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
jca666us @ 2/19/2011 12:49:41 PM # M Q
If the rumors are to be believed, apple will be ignoring the 7" tablet market no longer.

If they do go after the 7" "tablet" market, it'll probably be with a follow-up to the iPod touch.

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
hkklife @ 2/19/2011 2:32:45 PM # M Q
Yep, i think upping the iPod Touch's screen size to 5 or even 6 inches would be an easy, cheap, and brilliant move on Apple's part. I don't forsee a 7" or larger iPod Touch as that would be encroaching on the iPad's territory. Personally, I think an 8 to 9" screen (either 1024x600 or 1280x800 or something in between) is the tablet sweet spot.

I REALLY like the 7" Galaxy Tab FF and would hate to see them abandon it. In fact, i would like to see an eventual revision of it with a slimmer bezel and standard microUSB and HDMI ports instead of the proprietary Samsung connector.
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 2/25/2011 8:56:56 PM # Q
Already got my 7" tablet. I went across the street to CVS and picked up a Craig 7" tablet. It runs Android (2.1 right now). No camera to speak of, but it runs Android, and although it doesn't have the Android Market, I've been able to sideload a bunch of apps. Ironically, this will probably keep me on my Pre for a while longer. I can use it as a phone and use the tablet for any computing/PDA tasks I might have.

The tablet isn't fantastic. It was $100. For that, you get a micro-SD slot, an ePub reader, and the SlideMe app store. But rooting it was fairly simple, and it works fine w/ a finger or the included stylus. No big downsides so far.

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
jca666us @ 2/26/2011 3:46:28 AM # M Q
No big downsides except it's a piece of junk.
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 2/26/2011 4:33:27 AM # Q
"Piece of junk" is subjective and relative. It does what I wanted it to do, and after 2 days of hacking, it's got the Android Market on it. I didn't need or want the cameras, and I didn't want to pay for a data plan. It's not a $600 tablet, but that's one of the things I like about it.

But hey, if feeling smug works for you, go with it. ;)

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
jca666us @ 2/26/2011 5:03:31 AM # M Q
Lol - just busting your chops - for a cheapo android tablet, I'd probably hack a color nook.
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 2/26/2011 5:12:40 AM # Q
A Nook would probably make a slicker tablet (from what I've read on MobileRead, anyway :)). But that's $250 vs. $100. In my current financial situation, I'm a cheapskate. :D

I installed Graffiti on it from the Android store, and I'm actually a little tempted to buy a foldable keyboard for it. (I saw a keyboard you could literally roll up and take with you for $10 on Amazon.)

I'm kinda new to the whole Android thing, but I have to admit, I'm liking how many apps it has.

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
AdamaDBrown @ 2/27/2011 9:44:12 AM # Q
BH, where can I find one of those? I looked online for a Craig tablet, and I can't find anything via Google shopping or eBay.
Craig E-Pad
Gekko @ 2/27/2011 10:33:54 AM # Q

Craig E-Pad
$99.99
7" color touch screen. Mobile Wireless Device. Powered by Android
Valid FEB 27 - MAR 5, 2011

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1077943/


RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 2/27/2011 4:45:08 PM # Q
I got mine from CVS. It's not listed on their website, though. The other people I know who've gotten them have all called before they went.

One word of warning: Build quality on these is spotty. And by "spotty", I mean "Don't buy it somewhere that it'll be a pain in the ass if you have to go back and exchange it".

The first one I got was bad. Wouldn't boot up past the green Android mascot. But the second one's golden. HDMI out, USB host capability, and it's possible to attach as much as 1TB to it via the USB host. (That's the most that's been tested so far.)

Customer service tells me it should be upgradable to Froyo, but he didn't promise it would be. Given what I've seen now of the development process, I'm fairly confident that can happen in the user community. (Over the course of 4 days, it went from a crippled tablet running a half-baked app store to being rooted and running the Android App Market and sporting Live Wallpaper. With the tools available, it's trivial to get new software on the thing. It's just a matter of what the hardware can bear.

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
AdamaDBrown @ 2/27/2011 6:49:55 PM # Q
BH, as it happens, once I started looking some stuff up about this, I mentioned it to my father, who's been taking an interest in Android. Short version? He wanted one, they're in stock at a CVS 30 minutes from me, and now I have one sitting in my lap.

This one was good straight out of the box--I have to say, I'm very impressive that you can get this amount of hardware for $99. It's no-frills, but it's very usable and very solid for the specs.

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 2/28/2011 7:48:36 AM # Q
It's a good amount of tech for the money. It's no iPad, but it gets the job done. :)
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
Gekko @ 2/28/2011 5:41:40 PM # Q

just for shits and giggles i popped into a local CVS store to see if they had any of these Craig E-Pads. sure enough - they had 4. i didn't buy one because i have no use for a tablet at this time (i prefer my little Win7 Netbook) but $99 is an amazing price for what you get. i'm surprised that MikeCon isn't all over this.

are there any CVS stores on Satan Island?

http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/store/storefinder.jsp

yes. yes there are.


RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
hkklife @ 2/28/2011 5:50:33 PM # Q
MikeCon would expect at least 8gb of onboard storage, Honeycomb, a 1Ghz CPU, a capacitive touchscreen, free integrated 3G connectivity, USB host, and a bundled microSD for $99....and he still would come up with a reason to not buy one.

Gekko, with you and Adama singing the praises of this device, I am not really tempted to go get one. I really have no reason for another "toy" to add to the clutter, especially seeing as how I got rid of my Archos 101 and got the smaller Nook Color that has a far better IPS LCD. My Droid X and the NC will be good enough until the horrific price-gouging by Samsung, Motorola, Google, and Verizon is put to a screeching halt with the imminent iPad 2 announcement.

All Apple has to do is keep the first-gen 16gb wi-fi iPad around as the entry-level SKU and drop its price by $50 or $100 to totally decimate what little competition remains in the tablet sector. Or they could replace it entirely and field a $499 model with the thinner chasis, 2 cameras, and improved screen. Either way, Android-based tablets are basically DOA as far as I am concerned, or at least at price points over $400.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
gmayhak @ 2/28/2011 6:27:55 PM # Q
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 7:01:26 AM # Q
hkklife wrote:
Gekko, with you and Adama singing the praises of this device, I am not really tempted to go get one. I really have no reason for another "toy" to add to the clutter, especially seeing as how I got rid of my Archos 101 and got the smaller Nook Color that has a far better IPS LCD.

I love this tablet, for what it is, but if you've already got a NC, and have it rooted to run Android, there's no reason to get this, really. For one thing, I think the rooted NC runs a higher version of Android than the CMP738a is capable of (as of right now), and the Nook's screen is capable of multitouch, which this tablet's screen isn't.


RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
AdamaDBrown @ 3/1/2011 10:01:15 AM # Q
hkk, I don't really have any negatives to report on this thing so far, except a couple known software bugs that can be ironed out eventually. Mostly related to the "Cell Standby" function of Android--Android 2.1 still assumes it's on a phone, so it's wasting battery power imagining that it's looking for a cellular network. That'll get fixed eventually by somebody's custom ROM, I'm sure.

This thing certainly isn't going to outshine snazzier hardware, but it definitely has a great value for the price point, which I think really opens up roles for this thing you wouldn't or couldn't use other devices for. At $99, you could turn this thing into, say, the centerpiece of a nice home media center. A large touchscreen jukebox to organize all your music and video, also with access to streaming feeds like Pandora, XM, Slingplayer, and so forth. And because it's so cheap and basic, you're not really wasting it's capabilities the way you would be if you tried to use almost any other kind of tablet for that.

Or it makes a perfect "expendable" tablet for a child or parent who could use some kind of device, but doesn't need the frills and advanced features.

Oh, one side note--though it lists 4 GB of internal memory, the vast majority of that is taken up with pre-loaded stuff. If you really want to use the internal memory, you'll need to wait until someone develops a "lite" ROM image for it removing some of the nonsense.

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 10:49:53 AM # Q
AdamaDBrown:

ApKInstaller can delete any crapware, or once it's rooted you can use ADB for that. :)

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 11:46:49 AM # Q
AdamaDBrown wrote:
BH, where can I find one of those? I looked online for a Craig tablet, and I can't find anything via Google shopping or eBay.

I found mine at CVS. They had about 3 of them at the register.

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
AdamaDBrown @ 3/1/2011 12:26:44 PM # Q
I can't stress that bit about the register enough, if people are looking for these--I spent probably a good five minutes looking around in the little "electronics" section of CVS before I decided to go find a clerk, and it turns out she was standing right in front of the things. :D
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
hkklife @ 3/1/2011 12:53:13 PM # Q
Bhart, I was thinking about getting one for the wife---she is still sporting a dumbphone (intentionally) yet still wants to have something with a decent web browser for Facebook etc to use when things at work are slow. Certainly cheaper than getting her an iPod Touch (which was the original plan)!

I honestly love the Nook Color's formfactor and screen and consider it the single best "bang for the buck" device out there right now. If the E-Bay daily deal is still alive today, the NC for $200 is an no-brainer. If it just had 2 more buttons under the screen and used a standardized microUSB port it'd be nearly perfect.

With the NC, my little stable of mobile devices is complete---the love/hate relationship I have with my Droid X as my primary phone, with a Pixi Plus (no service), 8Gb iPod Touch, Palm TX and Nook Color satisfying my WebOS, iOS, Garnet and bigger screen Android needs respectively via wi-fi.

The Nook Color just barely beat out the Viewsonic GTablet & the Samsung Galaxy Tab. Though I'd still love to have a Xoom, even if I was swimming in cash there's no way I would be down with that absolutely horrific pricing. No matter what kind of specs it's packing, Motorola priced that thing totally in the stratosphere and the tomorrow's Apple event is gonna kill whatever tiny bit of momentum Honeycomb and the Xoom had.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
Gekko @ 3/1/2011 1:11:06 PM # Q

ADB - look in the fatwallet thread link i posted above if you want ROM links and instructions.
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
AdamaDBrown @ 3/1/2011 6:12:14 PM # Q
Currently ApKInstall can't delete a lot of the pre-loaded stuff, because the stock ROM is set to be non-rewritable. They're working on that in the ROM threads over at XDA-Devs, but currently they haven't got anything that has enough stability and enough improvement that I'd feel comfortable flashing it onto a gadget that's going to be hanging out with my father.
RE: Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight s
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 6:50:24 PM # Q
The hacking going on with Shad at SlateDroid is pretty impressive (although I'm not a developer). The most common complaint now is that it still takes too much work to get the Market working. But that's a matter of including one app in the ROM to clean the cache. Once the cache is clean, the downloads go fine.

The part that's got me a little apprehensive is that the custom ROM on the tablet might become a little FrankenGarnet-ish, in that it probably can't get the full Froyo treatment (let alone Honeycomb).

Like I said, the tablet's good for basic use, and has a few good hardware touches, but it's definitely not a highly tuned piece of tech. It's got some potential for any developers that can unlock it, though.

I might end up getting some kernel code under my nails again. :)

Reply to this comment

Why Nobody Can Match the iPad's Price

Gekko @ 2/19/2011 9:09:19 AM # Q
RE: Why Nobody Can Match the iPad's Price
jca666us @ 2/19/2011 12:44:46 PM # M Q
The author of this article neglected to mention:

Apple placing orders for billions of dollars of components in advance with cash - they get discounts which no one else can match and tie up the available supply of components that competitors can use.

Reply to this comment

ipad owns it

richf @ 3/1/2011 8:03:40 AM # Q
Here is an article that pretty well nails the dominance of Apple. Read here...http://tinyurl.com/4l92uzw I am still amazed by the fact that Apple has dominated this niche. I just cannot find a good reason, other than the fact of having the latest and the greatest device to get one. I'm in the market to get another toy but an amusing myself with my dad's HP mini which I acquired this past weekend. Of course I am still kicking my self for not buying Apple when the market crashed and pocketing a 400% profit but that's another story.
Have a nice day!
HP 41CX->HP 75C->Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid>Pre Plus
Reply to this comment

Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.

bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 8:49:17 AM # Q
After using my cheapo Craig Android tablet a while, I decided I like Android. I don't like the interface as much, but what finally convinced me to ditch my Pre was I could get a phone with a bigger screen and more apps (plus a better camera) for free (w/ a 2-year contract, of course).

If I have a different employment situation soon, and the TouchPad is reasonably priced, I might still get a Wifi-only one. It just seems as though HP/Palm has lost their passion for handheld devices.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
hkklife @ 3/1/2011 12:43:43 PM # Q
Ditto. Right now, I have lostn early all my enthusiasm for WebOS smartphones, though I will definitely keep an eye on a TouchPad, especially if it launches in wi-fi form before May and has an iPad 2-beating price.

May I ask which Android device you purchased? Will you keep the Craig? And what about the old Pre? Keep it around as a spare wi-fi web browsing device?


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 3/1/2011 1:13:01 PM # Q

BH - don't leave us hanging - what phone did you get?
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
hkklife @ 3/1/2011 1:25:59 PM # Q
Oh dear. Boy Genius is reporting the new iPad 2 will start at $399 for the wi-fi model. If that is the case, that price drop combined with a nice spec bump will absolutely DEMOLISH whatever Google, HP & RIM are fielding for tablets.

http://www.bgr.com/2011/03/01/what-to-expect-from-apples-ipad-2-announcement-tomorrow/

The absolute nail in the coffin will be if Apple brings out a 5" iPod Touch XL with a 960x640 display this fall. That would be "good enough" to steal marketshare from the Nook Color and various other low-end tablets. And what are these rumblings about an iPhone 5 variant with a physical keyboard!?!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 3/1/2011 2:01:52 PM # Q

so where would a $399 iPad 2 put the iPad 1 price at? $299?


RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 2:51:44 PM # Q
Sorry. Forgot to mention the phone. :)

It's a Sanyo Zio. Yes, I know it's not the latest and greatest, but the price was right, and like I said, it had some advantages over my Pre. :)

I'm going to keep the Craig. I like the 7" tablet form factor, and I can use it for a nighttime e-reader. Plus, in a pinch, I can connect a cheap keyboard to it and use it as a sort of Linux netbook.

Both devices serve their purposes. The Craig is better for reading, surfing, and taking notes (especially once I got Graffiti on it), but the phone makes phone calls, and is an easier device if I have to reference information quickly on the go.

I'm not 100% sold on the Zio, but on paper, it looks like it will be a modest improvement over the Pre.

Is there anything like Synergy for Android? Having all my contact information in one place is something I'll miss if I can't have it. (But obviously, I won't miss it enough to stay on board.)

This might sound stupid, but I feel a little sad..and guilty. I went from a Palm II, to a IIe, to a IIIc, to a T5, then a TX, then a Centro, and then the Pre. IMO, Palm really screwed the pooch after the Treo models. The Pre was good for its time, but it's too long in the tooth now, and they really bungled their follow-through.

I got tired of the broken promises and dashed expectations. IMHO, to go from the Pre to the Pre Plus to the Pre 2 was an insult. The Pre Plus should've come out when the Pixi did. There are pour souls who just recently got their Pre 2, and the Pre 3 is coming out this summer. And don't get me started on the whole OS update thing.


It's time for me to see how the other half lives. I'm still going to be on here, but it'll be mostly as an observer, unless I break down and get a TouchPad.


RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 3/1/2011 3:08:24 PM # Q

Zio? take that shiit back asap and get an EVO.
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 3:15:28 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

Zio? take that shiit back asap and get an EVO.

As I've explained in other threads, I don't have EVO cash right now. On paper, at least, the Zio is a step up from the Pre. If money was no object, I'd probably be getting a Droid Pro or a Droid X. :)

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 3/1/2011 3:23:16 PM # Q

well at least you're in the game now. it's about time.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 3:40:46 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

well at least you're in the game now. it's about time.

Thanks. Like I said, it's a little sad for me, but it was a long time coming...

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
jca666us @ 3/1/2011 5:23:02 PM # M Q
399 iPad? Damn - motorola, rimm, and hp can have a pity party with their overpriced tablets.
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
hkklife @ 3/1/2011 6:45:37 PM # Q
Bhart, Costco is selling the Droid X for $20ish now on a new contract....and I think a few other places (Amazon, Wirefly etc) are offering it for free now as well. You are doing a new 2yr contract and not paying full price, right? If you can switch to VZW, the Droid Pro AND the Droid 2 Global (1.2ghz CPU) are free from Amazon Wireless right now...

IIRC, Amazon is selling both the Evo and the Shift for $99 now w/ 2yr contract. Could you sell the Pre for $40ish and apply that to an Evo-style phone? Or perhaps even return the Craig tablet, sell the Pre and get an Evo or a Droid?
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 8:01:21 PM # Q
hkk:

I doubt I could sell the Pre (minus) for a plug nickel at this point. I submitted it to Sprint's buyback program for $16. If you can get a Droid X for $20 on contract, I'm pretty sure there's no market for the original Pre.

And I forgot to mention my other factor: I wanted to stay on Sprint, because they seem to have the cheapest plan. I decided mostly on the provider first, getting the cheapest Android phone on the cheapest plan.

When I said "If money was no object..." I was referring to the plan, too. ;)

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/1/2011 9:48:41 PM # Q
I just checked my order. By 3PM today (March 2) I'll have it. (Okay, yeah, so I'm a little enthusiastic. ;))
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
HyperScheduler @ 3/2/2011 8:17:18 AM # Q
@ BHartman:

No need to feel guilty about switching from Palm. I felt guilty for a long time, too. But I went from PalmOS to the iPhone, and you stayed with Palm by trying WebOS. In other words, you stuck with Palm for a lot longer than many other die-hards.

I respect you for that.


Best,

HyperScheduler

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/2/2011 10:46:05 AM # Q
Thanks. :)

Got the phone. Tried it out a little before letting it keep charging.

I like most of it. The screen isn't as responsive to touch as the tablet, but that's not necessarily a bad thing for me. One thing that was driving me nuts w/ the tablet is that it would select items in a list when I only meant to scroll through them. I don't have any of the Sprint ID's loaded.

I'm a little confused about landscape mode for the keyboard. Some things support it, but others don't seem to. Portrait mode with that keyboard isn't necessarily a good thing.

So far, I'm liking it. Have to wait for it to charge fully before I do the firmware update. (I assume that's going to bump it to Android 2.2.)

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
hkklife @ 3/2/2011 10:48:28 AM # Q
For a while, I too felt guilty. In fact, I carried my Treo alongside my Droid 1 from Nov '09 until April of 2010. Then after Android 2.1 (Eclair) was released for the Droid and the number and quality of 2.x optimized apps started to flow, I decided that the superior PIM capabilities and keyboard of the Treo were not worth the hassle of carrying 2 devices.

But now, as I still get aggravated and annoyed on a daily basis by the software shortcomings of Android and the hardware limitations of iOS, WM, and BB OS, at the end of the day I usually end up just being pissed at Palm for the enormous headstart over the rest of the industry that they squandered...and the countless second chances they were given for redemption but subsequently fumbled (Palm V, Handspring acquisition, Treo 650, Centro, WebOS). HP sadly looks dead-certain to continue to series of delays and missteps.

Enjoy that Zio!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/2/2011 3:12:42 PM # Q
Thanks, hkk! :)


RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/11/2011 11:37:11 PM # Q
But now, as I still get aggravated and annoyed on a daily basis by the software shortcomings of Android and the hardware limitations of iOS, WM, and BB OS, at the end of the day I usually end up just being pissed at Palm for the enormous headstart over the rest of the industry that they squandered...and the countless second chances they were given for redemption but subsequently fumbled (Palm V, Handspring acquisition, Treo 650, Centro, WebOS). HP sadly looks dead-certain to continue to series of delays and missteps.

Enjoy that Zio!

I haven't used any version of Android past Eclair extensively, so maybe I shouldn't judge, but the UI of Android really does seem to be a step or two down from WebOS. It makes me sympathetic to the manufactures who punch Android up a little bit on their phones. I find the notification system clunky, and I'm irritated that WebOS did a better job importing my Gmail contacts than an OS made by Google. Where Android makes it up, though, is in the apps. There's a simple but profound joy in reading about an app, or hearing of one advertised on TV, and actually being able to download and use it. And to do so without having to feel as though some third party was deciding what I could put on my phone (that little incident with Google remotely killing some malicious apps not withstanding).

And development is a huge difference. Compare AppInventor to Ares. AppInventor is what Ares should've been, IMO.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
AdamaDBrown @ 3/12/2011 9:04:17 PM # Q
"I haven't used any version of Android past Eclair extensively, so maybe I shouldn't judge, but the UI of Android really does seem to be a step or two down from WebOS."

Really? I got a chance to play with a WebOS Pixi today, and my first impression was that it wasn't nearly as intuitive as Android was for me the first time I started using it on the Motorola Droid Pro. Part of that may have been the buttons (or lack thereof) and thus the lack of a clearly demarcated "home."

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
richf @ 3/13/2011 7:00:16 AM # Q
Home, now really. Sounds like you need a Win device.
Have a nice day!
HP 41CX->HP 75C->Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid>Pre Plus
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 3/13/2011 12:58:14 PM # Q
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/13/2011 6:58:01 PM # Q
AdamaDBrown wrote:
Really? I got a chance to play with a WebOS Pixi today, and my first impression was that it wasn't nearly as intuitive as Android was for me the first time I started using it on the Motorola Droid Pro. Part of that may have been the buttons (or lack thereof) and thus the lack of a clearly demarcated "home."

WebOS doesn't have a "Home" screen, as such, because WebOS apps don't take over the screen the way they do on Android. You're, in effect, always "Home" and able to open another app when you want to. Here are the kinds of things I find counterintuitive in Eclair:

1) New e-mail notifications don't tell you anything. Simply having "New Email", plus my e-mail address, doesn't tell me anything about the e-mail. The notification should have, at a minimum, the subject and the sender.

2) Android obviously multitasks, but there's nothing in the UI that I can find that tells you when you're multitasking. Instead of having cards, or at least being able to slide between windows, one app just kind of "goes away", and you get into the next app.

3) On WebOS, it's assumed that searches you want to do are for items on the phone first, and then on the Web if it can't find a phone match. Android seems to search for all results, everywhere at once.

4) For some odd reason, Android imported my Gmail contacts incorrectly. Let me repeat that: Android, made by Google, imported my Gmail contacts incorrectly.

It's not on the list because it's not an Android UI issue, strictly speaking, but the official FB and Twitter apps for Android just don't seem as good. I'm used to FB being integrated into notifications, for example...


Granted, some of these differences won't take too long to get used to, but it just seems like WebOS is simpler in these areas.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/13/2011 7:00:21 PM # Q
None of what I just said should be interpreted to mean I'm ready to jump back to WebOS. The greater number of apps, the voice recognition, and the better versions of Google apps are all reasons I'm glad I made the switch. I guess I'm just a little sad that HP bought Palm, instead of Google buying them.
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 3/13/2011 7:08:35 PM # Q

>I haven't used any version of Android past Eclair extensively, so maybe I shouldn't judge, but the UI of Android really does seem to be a step or two down from WebOS.

the market disagrees.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/13/2011 7:14:03 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

the market disagrees.

What makes you think that the buying public makes its decision based on the UI? I like WebOS and I didn't make my decision to buy an Android phone based on the UI. I'd be astounded if even a third of the people who bought Android phones even tried WebOS first, frankly.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Tuckermaclain @ 3/14/2011 9:44:41 PM # Q
It's been a month since the last news story here. You're not the first. I jumped off when they abandoned Palm OS. Have my stack of TXs with passwords for all of them. I have lots of spare parts. It's like preparing for a disaster.
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/15/2011 2:14:30 PM # Q
My TX is on Ebay as we speak. I've got an Android phone and a little tablet now, so I'm ready to let WebOS go until they wow me with something. The Pre 3 wasn't it. If they can get up off their duffs and put some good software together, maybe it'll be the TouchPad.
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 3/16/2011 6:07:20 AM # Q

you're stockpiling TXs? really? why? what's the point?

do you stockpile 8 track players, VCRs, B&W TVs, floppy drives, and buggy whips too?

it's 2011. let it go.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 3/16/2011 10:26:02 AM # Q
Tuckermaclain wrote:

Have my stack of TXs with passwords for all of them. I have lots of spare parts. It's like preparing for a disaster.

The disaster already came. I think it was called "the Pixi".

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
HyperScheduler @ 3/16/2011 11:11:14 AM # Q
I support the stockpiling of PalmOS devices for several reasons.

First, it is important to maintain at least one PalmOS device in order to nostalgically reflect on what an amazing achievment that this particular device was.

Second, it is important to maintain at least one PalmOS device in order to presuade *others* of the value of PalmOS, when those other people inevitably criticize it.

Third, it is important to maintain at least one PalmOS device with one's full calendar on it (ideally, synced with Google Calendar through Pimlical) in order to preserve one's calendar just in case a catastrophic event occurs (such as the destruction of Google's servers or the legal development of a right to spy on someone's cloud-based calendar).


@ Tuckermaclain and others:

I am trying to collect PalmOS freeware and other apps. If anybody reading this would be interested in selling me their PalmOS apps (say, by selling me the apps on an SD drive that you mail to me), please let me know.


Sincerely,

HyperScheduler

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
LiveFaith @ 3/17/2011 7:58:01 PM # Q
That's pretty neat.

But, you really don't think the NSA, FBI or those surrounding them are actually deterred by laws are you? Really? If they were, who would enforce said laws anyway?

Word to the wise. If it's up in the cloud, then rest assured that if federal agencies and collusive state agencies WILL take a look if they desire. And when you find out, your suit will cost you millions, will take years, and nobody from any of those agencies will spend an afternoon in prison. JMO.
Pat Horne

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
rpa @ 3/18/2011 9:33:26 AM # Q
Livefaith: NSA is probably already filtering everything in the cloud looking for patterns to known terrorists. Not that they are interested in the affair you are having with a long lost college sweetheart you reconnected with but they would certainly flag you if said college sweetheart was on their black list.
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 3/18/2011 9:42:35 AM # Q

and no, they don't care about that hooker you hired last night.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Tuckermaclain @ 3/18/2011 8:25:40 PM # Q
Gekko why can't you accept that the Palm OS and the software for it just works for some people. Right now it is the best solution for me. It doesn't spy on me either. I do like antique electronics. I wish I hadn't got rid of a lot of them. Having a solid internet experience like my Evo is the only thing the TX lacks, IMO. I have wifi all around me but as you know, Blazer sucks. I suppose a phone would be nice too. Some of the software I consider valuable (like a pregnancy tracking program for OB's) is just not available on other OS's. Other Stuff like SkyScape is, but I have so much of it that it would cost me about $2G just to get my favorite apps. Admittedly the OS and TX are both clunky and old in 2011, but for me the path of least dissatisfaction is still the TX. When I go other places to practice for a few days to a few weeks I have a complete reference library in my pocket. Pretty cool.
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 4/3/2011 6:27:25 AM # Q
PalmOS had its technical limitations, obviously, but I'll tell you something: It's a little bit embarrassing that WebOS is actually a little bit less advanced of an operating system than PalmOS in one respect: Backup. I had an encounter with this yesterday.

I had wiped my phone with the intention to sell it back to Sprint for $16. About a week after doing that (but before sending the phone back) I realized I couldn't remember the combination to my safe. I'd stored the data in Data Wallet, so I figured, "Well, okay. I'll reactivate my Pre, restore from backup, and the data will be there. After all, it's stored in the cloud, right?...Right?!" Well, actually, no. As I was told by the support technician I chatted with (and vaguely remembered after they'd said it), only the core apps have the data saved. Everything else? Gone. The fact that reliable backup and restore isn't part of the base applications is a major limitation, and one of the reasons I found myself okay with moving to Android, after all. The idea that I could store all my data in the cloud and get it back made me momentarily regret making the switch, but it doesn't work.

So yeah, if data integrity is what you're after, I can completely understand keeping PalmOS around.


RE: Well, it's official. I've gone down with the sinking ship.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/3/2011 7:26:21 PM # Q
I am trying to collect PalmOS freeware and other apps. If anybody reading this would be interested in selling me their PalmOS apps (say, by selling me the apps on an SD drive that you mail to me), please let me know.

At this point, with major developers - like Hobbyist Software, who did Treo Butler - frequently disappearing overnight, you should download trial versions of EVERY PalmOS app you think yo could ever possibly want. Burn them all to a disc. If an app has been abandoned, find the corresponding keygen on that certain site or else use PW-Patcher. If the developer is still around, PAY FOR THE APPS YOU USE!

FJH

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Tuckermaclain @ 4/3/2011 8:46:49 PM # Q
Ive been looking for PWCPP for years. After Pilotwarez went down I haven't been able to locate it at all. Any tips on finding it to put abandoned apps on new Palms?
RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
bhartman34 @ 4/5/2011 1:04:50 PM # Q
A little update to this:

I decided not to send my Pre back for the $16. It works fine as a mini PDA right now. I activated it, got my apps back, and now I can surf the Web with it on Wifi, although it doesn't make calls. I find it less useful as a PDA than my Android tablet, but it's at least good for music and for carrying around data that I only have to reference (rather than edit). I still won't be using it for anything mission-critical, because of the lack of good backup, but it's not as useless without the carrier as I thought it'd be.

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Gekko @ 4/5/2011 1:12:15 PM # Q

IMO keep the Pre as a backup to use in a pinch in case you lose or break your current phone. i keep my old Sprint Centro in deep freeze just in case my EVO meets an untimely fate. whenn i get a new Phone - the Centro will be given away and the EVO will take its place. and so on. and so on.

$16 is an insult - even for a Pre. i've paid more for a single cocktail. why even bother?

RE: Well, it's official. I've jumped ship.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/5/2011 7:10:29 PM # Q
Ive been looking for PWCPP for years. After Pilotwarez went down I haven't been able to locate it at all. Any tips on finding it to put abandoned apps on new Palms?


Ask HyperScheduler.

FJH

Reply to this comment

Apple Launches iPad 2

Gekko @ 3/2/2011 12:20:58 PM # Q

so what do you think?

Apple Launches iPad 2

All New Design is Thinner, Lighter & Faster with FaceTime, Smart Covers & 10 Hour Battery

SAN FRANCISCO-March 2, 2011-Apple® today introduced iPad™ 2, the next generation of its magical device for browsing the web, reading and sending email, enjoying photos, watching videos, listening to music, playing games, reading ebooks and much more. iPad 2 features an entirely new design that is 33 percent thinner and up to 15 percent lighter than the original iPad, while maintaining the same stunning 9.7-inch LED-backlit LCD screen. iPad 2 features Apple's new dual-core A5 processor for blazing fast performance and stunning graphics and now includes two cameras, a front-facing VGA camera for FaceTime® and Photo Booth®, and a rear-facing camera that captures 720p HD video, bringing the innovative FaceTime feature to iPad users for the first time. Though it is thinner, lighter, faster and packed with new features, iPad 2 still delivers up to 10 hours of battery life* that users have come to expect. iPad 2 is available in black or white, features models that run on AT&T's and Verizon's 3G networks, and introduces the innovative iPad 2 Smart Cover in a range of vibrant polyurethane and rich leather colors.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/2/2011 3:39:32 PM # Q
I think the Xoom is still competitive, if I'm reading the pricing right.

Have a look at this price chart:

http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=221214&page=1&zoomIdx=1

On price and specs, you can make a strong argument for the Xoom against the 32GB iPad. A 32GB Xoom w/ 3G and Wifi will run you $600. A 3G and Wifi iPad will cost you $729, according to the pricing here:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad/start/select?mco=MjEzNTIwNzE

Of course, they have the 64GB tier all to themselves, so that will give them an advantage to the high end crowd.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
jca666us @ 3/2/2011 5:22:47 PM # M Q
I think the iPad 2 really puts the squeeze on rimm, hp, and motorola.

The iPad 2 specs are comparable to all the up & coming tablets, but the big advantage apple has is:

A. iOS performance
B. App store ecosystem

Touchpad is stillborn, as is the playbook, while zoom may have it's niche...

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
AdamaDBrown @ 3/2/2011 8:48:57 PM # Q
Personally, I'd definitely choose the Xoom over the iPad 2. Better wireless, expandable memory, better screen, and I prefer the Android platform.
RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
jca666us @ 3/3/2011 3:27:04 AM # M Q
Better screen? Check one out.

If you like android fine, but don't spread misinformation...

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/3/2011 6:04:38 AM # Q
jca666us wrote:
I think the iPad 2 really puts the squeeze on rimm, hp, and motorola.

The iPad 2 specs are comparable to all the up & coming tablets, but the big advantage apple has is:

A. iOS performance
B. App store ecosystem

Touchpad is stillborn, as is the playbook, while zoom may have it's niche...

I think the thing you're underestimating here is that the tablet market might have a bit more diversity than the MP3 player market. Apple doesn't dominate every market it touches. Two examples I can think of are AppleTV and Macs. Apple had the tablet category all to itself for awhile, but that's not the case anymore. If you can throw together a tablet for $99 that people will buy (maybe not in droves, but the same way people buy other low-end goods), and people will buy $200-$250 Nooks to make them into tablets, that means there's a lot more room on the market. Especially because tablets aren't seen as "I *need* one of these" devices the way desktops and laptops are.

If Apple actually had (as BGR was reporting) come out with a $399 iPad 2, I think it would've blown the current competition out of the water. But at current pricing, the Xoom is still competitive, and offers things the iPad doesn't.


RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/3/2011 7:24:42 AM # Q
jca666us wrote:
Better screen? Check one out.

If you like android fine, but don't spread misinformation...

http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=221214&page=1&zoomIdx=1

1024x768 vs. 1280x800. The Xoom is certainly higher resolution. I don't know what kind of GPU's they're both running, but at least on paper, I think that's advantage, Xoom, in the absence of benchmark comparisons.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
jca666us @ 3/3/2011 7:35:03 AM # M Q
higher resolution, yes

lower quality panel, yes

slower gpu, yes

slower performing tablet, yes

higher price, yes

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/3/2011 8:50:55 AM # Q
jca666us wrote:
higher resolution, yes

lower quality panel, yes

slower gpu, yes

slower performing tablet, yes

higher price, yes

Where are you getting the information about the GPU and the panel? I haven't seen any comparisons between the panels, and I haven't heard anything about GPU speed.

As for "higher price", if you compare the 32GB iPad 2 with 3G and Wifi to the Xoom, the Xoom is actually cheaper ($600 vs. $729).

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
jca666us @ 3/3/2011 9:47:42 AM # M Q
xoom 32 gig + 3G is $800

ipad2 32 gig + 3G is $729

read reviews - xoom uses a lower quality panel than iPad - and even with dual cpu's and a gig of ram, performance isn't all that and battery life isn't that good.

check one out at best buy. at $800 that thing is a boat anchor.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
Gekko @ 3/3/2011 9:54:37 AM # Q

i feel left out. i have no need for a tablet.


RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/3/2011 10:24:39 AM # Q
jca666us wrote:
xoom 32 gig + 3G is $800

ipad2 32 gig + 3G is $729

The Xoom is $600 on contract. It's $800 unlocked.


read reviews - xoom uses a lower quality panel than iPad - and even with dual cpu's and a gig of ram, performance isn't all that and battery life isn't that good.

This review seems to praise the display (except for the brightness), and cites battery life as 10 hours (which is the same as the iPad 2's, if I recall).

http://reviews.cnet.com/tablets/motorola-xoom-tablet/4505-3126_7-34468548.html#reviewPage1

If a display you want to view outdoors is important to you, then yes, iPad2 FTW. :)


check one out at best buy. at $800 that thing is a boat anchor.

At $800, I'd agree with you. But not for the on-contract price. The on-contract price gives you 3G for less than the iPad 2's 3G cost.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
AdamaDBrown @ 3/3/2011 12:26:45 PM # Q
It should also be pointed out that while the iPad 2 has 3G, the Xoom is 4G ready. Also that the Xoom can have it's memory upgraded, which the iPad can't.
RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
hkklife @ 3/3/2011 2:51:05 PM # Q
Yes, the microSD slot is becoming quite the rarity in the new crop of tablets. Off the top of my head, only the Xoom and the Toshiba Tablet have it. In fact, Honeycomb doesn't even support removable storage in its current build and Moto is awaiting a future update from Google to utilize the microSD slot.

In fact, I would not be totally surprised to see Moto drop the microSD slot in the wi-fi version of the Xoom (cost-saving reasons) since it seems to be integrated right in there alongside the LTE SIM card slot.

With the Nexus S the first or several upcoming Android phones to omit microSD and longtime microSD loyalist RIM dropping it from the Playbook, we're apparently looking at a future of decidedly non-expandable storage options which, IMO, really blows for users from a cost and flexibility standpoint.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
nastebu @ 3/3/2011 2:57:26 PM # Q
bhartman34 wrote:

The Xoom is $600 on contract. It's $800 unlocked.

At $800, I'd agree with you. But not for the on-contract price. The on-contract price gives you 3G for less than the iPad 2's 3G cost.

Hmm... but that's not really a apples to apples comparison, is it? It's not at all clear that people want contracts along with their tablets. One of the attractions to the ipad when it came out was the ease with which you could add or delete a data plan.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/3/2011 4:01:43 PM # Q
Hmm... but that's not really a apples to apples comparison, is it? It's not at all clear that people want contracts along with their tablets. One of the attractions to the ipad when it came out was the ease with which you could add or delete a data plan.

Fair point, but the question is whether or not they'd want to pay such a premium for the privilege of not having a plan. Especially when for under $80 more they can not only lose the contract, but take the phone to a different carrier, since it's unlocked.

Here's the other thing: AT&T & Verizon don't lock you into a contract w/ the iPad, but they might as well. You can't take a 3G iPad and use it on another carrier. Unless I'm missing something, it's like any locked tablet: Without that particular carrier, you've got a Wifi-only device. All Apple's terms really save you in comparison to a contract is an ETF.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
Gekko @ 3/3/2011 5:26:03 PM # Q

question on that Craig E-Pad - how do you pinch to zoom a web page etc. with no multi-touch?

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/3/2011 5:28:03 PM # Q
Well, that's the problem, right now: You don't. That's one of the reasons there's still development on it to go to Froyo.
RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
Gekko @ 3/3/2011 5:35:50 PM # Q

WTF i thought it was a hardware limitation - ie resistive and not capactive display? hence - software won't fix it?
RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/3/2011 6:54:11 PM # Q
You're right. Sorry. It's Flash that Froyo might fix, not the multitouch. Multitouch isn't going to happen with this one.


RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
nastebu @ 3/4/2011 3:29:29 AM # Q
bhartman34 wrote:
Fair point, but the question is whether or not they'd want to pay such a premium for the privilege of not having a plan. Especially when for under $80 more they can not only lose the contract, but take the phone to a different carrier, since it's unlocked.

Can you add a data plan to the Xoom without a contract? Is it possible to adopt a data plan month by month the way you can (could?) with the iPad?

bhartman34 wrote:
Here's the other thing: AT&T & Verizon don't lock you into a contract w/ the iPad, but they might as well. You can't take a 3G iPad and use it on another carrier. Unless I'm missing something, it's like any locked tablet: Without that particular carrier, you've got a Wifi-only device. All Apple's terms really save you in comparison to a contract is an ETF.

This doesn't seem that big of a deal if you're not locked in long term. Also, the data plans offered seem quite flexible. I saw $15 for 250 MB, and $25 for 2 GB.

I just don't think Apple is too worried about this. If they are, and if they think the subsidized price is too much of a competitive disadvantage, I imagine they'll cut a deal to subsidize the iPad. But I have a feeling they're looking at their sales data and contract adoption rates and figuring the contract is not a significant edge.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
LiveFaith @ 3/4/2011 10:58:57 AM # Q
The screen on the iPad is NOT a reason to look elsewhere. It's really nice and leaves Apple plenty of time to let components get cheap enough to upgrade the 3 or 4 etc to higher rez.

The mass market sure aint crying about it, and believe it or not the masses are not sitting around in a d*** measuring contest over ghz, gsp, and even expandable storage (this one is a shame IMO). They WANT the hippest solid and functional device with a boatload of compelling apps.

I'll admit it, Apple has seized it's opportunity (again) and delivered another compelling evolutionary product that is fashionable, improved, and cutting edged in certain ways. The local 6pm newscasters in Las Vegas were foaming at the mouth over the announcement the other day. The iPad and iPhone have gone viral among the unwashed masses. Others will sell a few to techies, niche platform needs, and contrarions. But nothing significant soon. It will be a big winner.

HP (especially), Moto, RIM and all the rest are just pretenders who will have to hope for scraps off Apple's table. I guarantee you this, I won't spend another dime on HP/Palm's half-baked platform and hardware offerings. The company has little integrity IMO and has proven for many years to have incompetent management. Recently, they have echoed the exact same if not worse.

If I wanted a tablet (which I don't) in 2011, I can assure you which one I would be purchasing. The answer to that is easy right now.
Pat Horne

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/4/2011 12:53:07 PM # Q
nastebu wrote:
Can you add a data plan to the Xoom without a contract? Is it possible to adopt a data plan month by month the way you can (could?) with the iPad?

I doubt it. But not many people seem to care in the cell phone world. (And by "care", I don't mean b*tch about it. I mean actually do something about it.) It certainly doesn't keep people from buying iPhones, Android phones, and a lot of other phones on contract.



This doesn't seem that big of a deal if you're not locked in long term.

But you are locked in long term. You can't really get any longer term than "forever". Without the carrier you signed up for (even if you're only signing up on a monthly basis), you've got yourself a Wifi tablet at the Wifi + 3G price.


Also, the data plans offered seem quite flexible. I saw $15 for 250 MB, and $25 for 2 GB.

Check out Verizon's Data Calculator:

http://www.verizonwireless.com/splash_includes/datacalculator.html

If you watch 5 hours of video a month, and view 5 Web pages a day, you've already blown past the 2GB limit. And this on what's supposed to be a media-consuming device.

I just don't think Apple is too worried about this.

Oh, I'm sure Apple's not. ;)


If they are, and if they think the subsidized price is too much of a competitive disadvantage, I imagine they'll cut a deal to subsidize the iPad. But I have a feeling they're looking at their sales data and contract adoption rates and figuring the contract is not a significant edge.

I don't doubt you're right. I'm sure Apple doesn't care. What makes me vomit with rage is the idea that people would flock to Apple in droves for the iPad like they're doing people a favor by bending them over. Don't get me wrong: The iPad was a really cool device when Apple was the only one putting out a tablet that size. But to say the average Apple consumer (and just to be clear, I don't think that you're an average consumer if you're on a Palm forum talking about Apple ;)) is a lemming is, frankly, insulting to lemmings.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
jca666us @ 3/5/2011 10:33:04 AM # M Q
Still, spending any money on a xoom when there is a dearth of native apps, along with hardware specs. and a price point that's not competitive makes no sense.

Maybe in a few months when the price comes down and we see a few native xoom apps.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
AdamaDBrown @ 3/6/2011 2:23:00 PM # Q
A dearth of native apps? Android has about 250,000 native apps, the vast majority of which will run fine on a tablet like the Xoom.
RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
jca666us @ 3/6/2011 4:30:55 PM # M Q
They may run fine, but they don't take advantage of the xoom's features - dual core cpu's, higher resolution, etc.

iPad's got 65,000 apps that already take advantage of the higher resolution, I'd give it a few months before we see apps made to be mp aware, and utilize the cameras.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/8/2011 10:25:13 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

http://www.examiner.com/social-media-in-knoxville/new-craig-epad-at-cvs-bristol-today-i-got-one

http://www.examiner.com/social-media-in-knoxville/craig-epad-99-from-cvs-social-media-ebooks-and-web-surfing

Fairly good articles, but I think she glosses over the multitouch and Android Market issues a little bit too quickly. I have to say that without the firmware hack that allowed the Android Market, the tablet would be a lot more limited.

Incidentally, Shad from SlateDroid has a version of the firmware now with Froyo. It's not stable yet, but it's an impressive bit of coding, especially for the amount of time he's had to work. :)

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
Gekko @ 3/9/2011 5:28:43 AM # Q
The headline figures look pretty straightforward: The iPad 2 starts at $499. The Xoom costs $799. So far, good for Apple.

But the $499 iPad 2 is the bare-bones model. It only comes with WiFi, lacks a 3G connection on a cellular network, and it has a mere 16 Gigabytes of memory. (More on that in a moment.)

The $799 Xoom has 3G, and 32 gigabytes of memory.

A comparable iPad — with a 3G connection, and 32 gigs of memory — costs $729.

So the iPad 2 is still cheaper, only not by so much, right?

Not so fast.

If you buy the Xoom, and sign up for a two-year wireless contract with Verizon Wireless, you'll only have to pay $599 for the device. You get an upfront subsidy of $200, like the subsidy you get on most cellular smartphones.

What's the equivalent subsidy on the iPad 2?

Nada. Zip. Squat. There isn't one.

So someone who wants the 32 gigabytes of memory, and wants to use the 3G connection every month, may actually save money by buying the Xoom instead of the iPad 2.

You didn't hear that on stage in San Francisco last week. And you haven't heard much about it since either.

And it doesn't stop there.

What about someone who wants a tablet with even more memory?

You can get an iPad 2 with 64 gigabytes of memory. That's a lot of videos, songs, and photos. It will cost you $829.

But the Xoom has something the iPad 2 doesn't: A micro-SD slot. So — after a forthcoming update — you will be able to add memory yourself. And that's likely to be cheaper. You can buy 32 gigabyte micro-SD cards for $65, and if you just want, say, 16 gigs you can get them for less than $30. The price is dropping all the time.

Furthermore, heavy data users may find the Xoom costs them less each month as well. Someone using a massive 10 gigabytes of data a month on Verizon Wireless would pay $5 less per month on the Xoom than the iPad 2.

None of this, naturally, is to suggest the Xoom is inherently the better product or that you should buy one instead. But it does counter the suggestion that the iPad is always the much cheaper alternative. It isn't. Despite what Jobs would have you believe, the picture is more mixed.

In terms of technical specifications, the Xoom is heavier, but it has a better screen. It will run Flash, which means you can pretty much watch Web video as you do on your laptop or PC. The iPad won't, partly, at least, because Jobs wants you to pay money to watch programs through iTunes. The Xoom has access to many fewer third-party applications.

Later this year the Xoom will also run on Verizon's (NYSE: VZ - News) "4G" network, dubbed LTE. A spokeswoman explains that this runs 10 times as fast as current 3G networks.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/112287/ipad2-could-cost-you-more-than-xoom;_ylt=AiqNkDIuCMATnfiIK1PQ.t27YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTFiZ2V0dmI4BHBvcwMxMARzZWMDc3BlY2lhbEZlYXR1cmVzBHNsawN0aGVpcGFkMm1pZ2g-?mod=bb-budgeting


RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
nastebu @ 3/9/2011 12:54:25 PM # Q
As we were talking about above, the two embody different ideas about the contract. You can get the iPad on AT&T (at least) on a month to month basis, cancel at any time. So in place of a subsidized tablet, you get a very flexible approach to 3G. So if you want a two year contract, the Xoom is a much better deal. But if you're intending to only enable 3G once in a while, the iPad works out much cheaper.

apples and oranges.

As I also said above, I'm betting Apple has noticed it's iPad users stopping and starting 3G regularly, and that is the reason the iPad hasn't been marketed with a subsidy.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
jca666us @ 3/9/2011 3:29:29 PM # M Q
Actually the wifi version is the most popular version.

with iOS 4.3 and the mobile hotspot feature, there isn't much of an incentive to purchase a 3G iPad - wifi's the way to go.

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
bhartman34 @ 3/12/2011 5:56:15 AM # Q
jca666us wrote:

with iOS 4.3 and the mobile hotspot feature, there isn't much of an incentive to purchase a 3G iPad - wifi's the way to go.

That's true, if it works. For whatever reason, I've never enjoyed a lot of luck with tethering. I tried tethering my Kindle 3 with my Pre, and it didn't work. Neither did my Craig tether with my new Zio. But if it works for you, it works. :)

RE: Apple Launches iPad 2
jca666us @ 3/12/2011 11:13:35 AM # M Q
lol - won't know for another week - every store around me is sold out of iPad 2's - ordered it online.
Reply to this comment

HP says RIM copied WebOS

BaalthazaaR @ 3/3/2011 10:55:56 AM # Q
From Tam's Palm: HP says RIM copied WebOS
http://tinyurl.com/rim-copied-webos
RE: HP says RIM copied WebOS
Gekko @ 3/3/2011 11:31:39 AM # Q

who cares? they're both DOA.


Reply to this comment

Android is now the top smartphone OS in the United States.

AdamaDBrown @ 3/7/2011 1:24:04 PM # Q
As per comShare and Nielsen. In 2010, Android rose from being 7% of US smartphones, to 31%, and sales of them rose 888%. Meanwhile Blackberry and Windows share dropped heavily, and the iPhone stayed flat.

http://www.comscoredatamine.com/2011/03/android-takes-lead-in-u-s-smartphone-market/

RE: Android is now the top smartphone OS in the United States.
bhartman34 @ 3/9/2011 9:02:49 AM # Q
I'd like to think my recent acquisition was at least part of that. :D
Reply to this comment

Apotheker Seeks to Save HP's ‘Lost Soul' With Software Growth

Gekko @ 3/9/2011 5:49:44 AM # Q
RE: Apotheker Seeks to Save HP's ‘Lost Soul' With Software Growth
LiveFaith @ 3/14/2011 9:49:37 PM # Q
He's already been found a liar. He'll save no lost soul.
Pat Horne
Reply to this comment
RE: The Zune is Dead
abosco @ 3/14/2011 4:29:33 PM # Q
They sold dozens.
-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G -> iPhone 4
RE: The Zune is Dead
jca666us @ 3/14/2011 5:48:01 PM # M Q
Demand "ebbs"!?!?!?!

wtf - sales never took off.

RE: The Zune is Dead
gmayhak @ 3/14/2011 8:08:45 PM # Q
At the rate iPad 2 is selling, all the wannabees should probably re-think entering the tablet space. There won't be any customers left for them!

If you have a new iPad 2 or have 4.3 on your iPad 1 here's how you can enable some of the new gestures that will be available in the future...

http://www.edibleapple.com/how-to-re-enable-new-ios-43-multitouch-gestures/

Gary
http://www.iTalentProductions.com


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RE: The Zune is Dead
AdamaDBrown @ 3/15/2011 12:39:42 PM # Q
I'm not surprised that they killed the Zune, more like that they stuck with it so long. Microsoft's attention span with regard to their failed initiatives is usually much shorter. Anyone remember how fast they dropped UMPCs when those didn't take off? And Tablet PCs before that? Anyone seen Bill Gates wandering around with a tablet lately talking about how they'll kill laptops?
Reply to this comment

iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?

Gekko @ 3/15/2011 6:55:22 AM # Q

iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Posted by Philip Elmer-DeWitt
March 15, 2011 6:32 AM

There's a lesson for tablet makers in the reported death of Microsoft's "iPod killer"

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/15/ipad-copycats-zuned-to-failure/

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
CFreymarc @ 3/16/2011 7:30:18 PM # Q
No new news post in a month? This site is dead. Was fun while it lasted.
RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
bhartman34 @ 3/16/2011 10:02:02 PM # Q
CFreymarc wrote:
No new news post in a month? This site is dead. Was fun while it lasted.

I'm hoping that things'll pick up once the TouchPad's released. If nothing else, at least the prospect of new PC apps for WebOS should make things a little more lively.

A lot of the comments I've been seeing about Palm and HP are to the effect that WebOS should be great on a tablet. HP just has to make with the freakin' APPS already!!! If I live to be 100, I'm never going to understand why HP didn't get that memo. Palm, and then HP squandered the enormous advantage they had in the developer community. With its cash reserves, HP really had a chance to pull a hat trick, but they seem determined to let WebOS die on the vine.


RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
LiveFaith @ 3/17/2011 8:16:01 PM # Q
You're right sir. HP is not playing to win. They are just using the rhetoric of winning. Lot's of companies who die do that.

When they announced (not delivered) their pathetic phone lineup on Feb 9, it appeared Palm management from the past 7 years had taken over again. It is inconceivable that the Veer & Pre3 will make WebOS anything more than a the tiny niche that it is. HP knows this. It's as if they have tossed aside the phone for the tablet and now the PC.

WebOS is such a wonderful mobile OS, and had HP wanted to they could have announced a broad based smartphone roadmap to actually compete. They laid an egg instead. It's sad to watch the potential of this platform be tossed aside. But I am 100% convinced that they have. By their actions.

I'm tapping out. Unfortunately, I have to now look into Android (doubtfully iOS) and look forward to some progress. Hopefully, as it Android matures, it will become more like WebOS in functionality,
Pat Horne

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
AdamaDBrown @ 3/17/2011 8:43:52 PM # Q
HP doesn't need Palm management in order to bugger their line of devices--they've been doing that themselves for many years. Particularly their smartphone offerings, which have pretty much without exception bombed.
RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
bhartman34 @ 3/18/2011 7:01:10 AM # Q
I really think we're seeing the last gasp of WebOS, and with it, the idea that used to be Palm. Too many cumulative mistakes. And it's really a shame. The simplicity and openness that Palm represented is sorely needed in the marketplace.

My mother bought an iPhone 3GS yesterday. The device itself was $49 from AT&T, and the HTC Aspire she was looking at was $100. She gets the phone home, and she couldn't even get it connected to the data network herself. She had to call customer support. To use the data network. There's something seriously wrong with that, and that's a huge friggin' hole for HP to walk through, if they'd just take the chance. The iTunes activation plus the need to jailbreak your phone to get the most out of it are things that could really be exploited about the iPhone. Granted, I'm not a marketing guy, but I'll never understand why more isn't made of that by their competitors (HP/Palm included).

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/18/2011 6:25:41 PM # Q
my wife upgraded to a $49 3gs and it was set up at the AT&T store - she was texting and calling after 15 min.

jailbreaking your phone to get the most out of it? lol

jailbreaking increases instability and causes alot of crashes.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
bhartman34 @ 3/18/2011 8:25:39 PM # Q
jca666us wrote:
my wife upgraded to a $49 3gs and it was set up at the AT&T store - she was texting and calling after 15 min.

My mom could text and call after 15 minutes, too. She just couldn't receive pictures in texts, use the Web, or use the App Store.

jailbreaking your phone to get the most out of it? lol

jailbreaking increases instability and causes alot of crashes.

There's a huge raft of software you can't use until you jailbreak the phone, and customizations you can't make:

http://goo.gl/DMfTE

With Android, at least, they don't restrict you to one app store (even if they will reach out and pull a misbehaving app from your phone).

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/19/2011 5:01:35 PM # Q
Regardless of some of the apps. you get from jailbreaking, the reasons for jailbreaking have minimized over time - as features have been added to ios. The hit your ios device takes (instability) isn't really worth it.

While Android purports to be more "open", you have the downsides of:

1. Fragmentation (whereby apps don't take advantage of all android hw & sw features and aren't optimized for all devices).

2. Security concerns - which you don't have anywhere to the same degree with ios.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
LiveFaith @ 3/19/2011 6:38:48 PM # Q
My coworker (we) has been using his 3GS with FREE WiFi hotspot for about a year now after he finally quit believing the official fear tactics and jailbroke. Because it took Apple forever to finally get this done and ATT to put together a $45 fee to drain customer pockets, I have a hard time relating to "minimized" and "not worth it". Minimization meant nothing for an iPhone user who wanted a WiFi hotspot over the past 12 months. It just did not exist without getting outside Apples walled garden.That's a chunk of change every month from just 1 app available via jailbreak.

Now, as far as the Pre goes. It's basically unuseable without Devmode+Preware.
Pat Horne

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/19/2011 7:02:43 PM # Q

1. "fragmentation" is a bogeyman non-issue. there's nothing i can't do with my 10+ month old EVO. same goes with my friend's 18+ month old Droid 1.
2. my sense is that most former PalmOS users like to customize and tinker. hence - i think they will be more happy with the freedom and openness of Android. there are applications on Android that will probably never exist on iOS. the inverse is not true. for example -

http://www.androidcentral.com/remote-notifier-android-forward-notifications-your-phone-your-computer

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/19/2011 8:15:10 PM # Q
Fragmentation is a real issue for Android.

Find a two year old android device and see how well it can run the latest apps (if at all).

ios and android both have alot of crapware, but ios has more fully developed apps. android has more utilities.

I think most former palm os users will be split into camps:

a. those that want to tinker and occasionally brick their device and occasionally get hit with viruses.
b. those who want to just work and not have to deal with any hassles.

a. are android users.
b. are ios users.

This android = openness argument is laughable; android is as closed off as ios.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/19/2011 8:44:35 PM # Q

Droid 1 is almost 2 years old and can run anything. it has the Froyo update too.

iPhone is great for 14 year old girls, yentas, cuckolds, and grandmas. Apple keeps it simple.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
bhartman34 @ 3/19/2011 11:20:32 PM # Q
jca666us wrote:

This android = openness argument is laughable; android is as closed off as ios.

Android could certainly stand to be more open in some ways, I suppose, but in what way is Android even close to being as closed off as iOS? Android allows you to get your apps from anywhere without doing anything. You have to jailbreak your iPhone to do that. Now, you certainly open up security vulnerabilities that way, but the freedom you gain is immensely more important. As a general rule, once I buy a computer (which these smartphones are), it's my own damn business what I install on it (with the stipulation that I obtained the software legally, of course). I think it's silly to assume that someone who made a $200 investment (at least) in a smartphone should be forced to wear the electronic equivalent of a helmet and kneepads.

And anyway, that's not what Apple's strategy's about. They want everyone to buy from the App Store because outside of it, they don't get a cut.


RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/20/2011 5:24:33 AM # Q

come on - if you had to say which platform is more like the old PalmOS platform in terms of openness, choice of form factor, choice of carrier, user freedom, hackability, customization, personalization, application/developer/manufacturer freedom etc. which would it be?

old PalmOS users innately like to customize and hack. they like the freedom to do what they want to do with their devices and set them up exactly how they see fit and make them uniquely their own. you just can't do that with iOS like you can with Android.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/20/2011 5:24:33 AM # Q

come on - if you had to say which platform is more like the old PalmOS platform in terms of openness, choice of form factor, choice of carrier, user freedom, hackability, customization, personalization, application/developer/manufacturer freedom etc. which would it be?

old PalmOS users innately like to customize and hack. they like the freedom to do what they want to do with their devices and set them up exactly how they see fit and make them uniquely their own. you just can't do that with iOS like you can with Android.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/20/2011 5:26:58 AM # Q

shiit - you can't even get an SD card slot or removable battery??? WTF? what's that tell you?

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/20/2011 7:55:25 AM # Q
Gekko,

Thou doth protest too much! lol!!!

if you had to say which platform is more like the old PalmOS platform in terms of openness, choice of form factor, hackability, customization, personalization, manufacturer freedom etc. which would it be

Add to that bugginess and instability and I'd say Android.

If we were to talk about which OS has developer support like Palm OS did, in addition to application availability, choice of carrier (except US), I'd say IOS. IOS also makes it easy to install/uninstall apps, is extremely stable and bug free, and easy to use.

old PalmOS users innately like to customize and hack, they like the freedom to do what they want to do with their devices and set them up exactly how they see fit and make them uniquely their own.

That's some users; not all. Even if it's all current Palm users, that's 1% of the market.

Most users want the tools to be able to work and a stable OS. Not something that needs to be rebooted constantly, or apps need to be uninstalled because they conflict, etc.

you just can't do that with Android like you can with iOS.

shiit - you can't even get an SD card slot or removable battery??? WTF? what's that tell you?

Gekko, don't spread misinformation. IOS supports an SD slot, along with USB and HDMI output.

As for a removable battery; that's not a feature of android or ios, but efficiency of battery usage is a feature of the OS.

Looking at the ipad and ipad2, both seem to do a much better job of optimizing battery life then the Xoom (with the latest iteration of Android).

In addition, the UI for ios is much more responsive than android. Every version of android I've used is very sluggish.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
hkklife @ 3/20/2011 9:22:00 AM # Q
There are actually very solid Gingerbread ROMs floating around out there for the Droid 1. Other than its lack of RAM and onboard storage space, it's still a very solid little device after the most recent OS updates (if you can live with the small screen and wacky keyboard).


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/20/2011 12:42:22 PM # Q

the iPhone is like a smartphone with training wheels that never come off.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/20/2011 2:50:56 PM # Q
android is a beta release of a smartphone OS.
RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
bhartman34 @ 3/21/2011 7:27:10 AM # Q
jca666us wrote:
android is a beta release of a smartphone OS.

I wouldn't say it's a beta OS, but there certainly are some apps for it that feel like beta. Gmail on my phone, in particular, has a tendency to crash. I'm not sure what that's about.

There's no doubt in my mind that iOS is "safer" than Android, in a certain sense. Apple's tight control means that, for the most part, nothing happens to your phone that Apple doesn't want to have happen unless you jailbreak. But that stability brings with it a lack (or at least limitation) of flexibility. And that's on the software and hardware side. For people who agree with all of Apple's choices, that's not a concern. For others, it's a deal-breaker.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/21/2011 5:03:29 PM # Q
I think when Android's got a user experience on par with ios, and UI performance close to IOS, then Android will slowly kill ios.

It's not there yet - as it stands, UI performance on every android device I've used has been remarkable in its sluggishness.

If I was looking to hack my phone/tablet, I'd get an Android device, or jailbreak my ios device.

Since I'm looking for a usable device, I use ios. For me, android's not quite there yet.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/21/2011 5:58:47 PM # Q

the market disagrees.

Android is winning.


RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
nastebu @ 3/21/2011 6:45:58 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

the market disagrees.

Android is winning.

In overall American market share Android pulled ahead, right?

Not in profits though, though? It's a key difference. And Apple was still growing in market share even before the expansion off AT&T.

I think at this point it's pointless to make this a horse race. Neither Android nor iOS are going away. The question, to me, seems to be who the other competitors are going to be among the bunch.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
bhartman34 @ 3/21/2011 7:38:48 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

the market disagrees.

Android is winning.

In fairness, Android is winning because there are so many Android handsets to choose from (some of them free), not necessarily because Android is better than iOS. No single Android phone outsells iPhone 4, AFAIK.

It's analogous to what happened when IBM clones started coming out in the late 80's/early 90's: Windows won because you could buy a cheapo PC clone, with a variety of configurations, whereas if you bought an Apple computer, you were basically buying one thing. The only situation this ever worked out in Apple's favor was in the MP3 player market.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
nastebu @ 3/22/2011 1:10:56 PM # M Q
It's worth remembering that Apple responded to the windows clones by trying to do the same with the apple OS. They authorized clone makers and expanded the Apple product line. When Jobs came back after the company tanked, the first thing he did was axe all of that.

Like it or not, the singularity of the iPhone and ipad give them both very clear market identities. Even people who don't want one can tell you what the iPhone is and what it lacks. This is the battle for HP, right? Giving the webOS products an identity other than not-ipad.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/22/2011 4:52:44 PM # Q
the market disagrees.

Android is winning.

If it's a race to the bottom, yes. Android handsets are cheaper yet Apple continues to makes the lion's share of the profits.

In terms of overall marketshare, IOS easily outnumbers Android.

Any count of ios must include iphone, ipod touch, and ipad.


RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
bhartman34 @ 3/23/2011 8:37:19 AM # Q
jca666us wrote:
the market disagrees.

Android is winning.

In terms of overall marketshare, IOS easily outnumbers Android.

Any count of ios must include iphone, ipod touch, and ipad.

Tablets and phones are separate spaces. Most people who have tablets will also have cell phones. That's why you don't just lump them together when talking about market share. At any rate, Apple's dominance of the tablet market is going to be fairly short-term. Just as in the smartphone market, when every manufacturer has an Android tablet out, Apple will see that erode. It's inevitable.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/23/2011 7:32:48 PM # Q
We'll see to what degree it erodes. Apple has just improved the best tablet on the market; xoom is garbage, playbook looks pathetic, and touchpad still remains an unknown entity.
RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
gmayhak @ 3/23/2011 8:36:05 PM # Q
I agree, having a version of OSX on the iPhone and iPad is a developer's dream. I'm just a beginner but I really doubt that developing for android or webos is as versatile. In this app I have seven video loops as backgrounds for the different levels with full control of their position and rotation. At the same time the game is going on in the foreground on top of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/user/gmayhak?feature=mhum

Here are a few free promo codes for iPad & iPad2
NYKHPWFNRH3J
3MJ3KKNA743Y
K4XPXJX4NH4F
WAKFYMM9NNPX
W3LFJLJ7PJN7

Gary
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
AdamaDBrown @ 3/23/2011 11:53:43 PM # Q
jca, this thread all reminds me of the old stories about how Windows Mobile was hopelessly broken, and if anyone used it they'd be rebooting every five minute and hard resetting on the hour. It was FUD then, and it's FUD now.

I had a Droid Pro for six weeks this winter, piled high with more apps than I knew what to do with, installing random apps, installing beta software, everything. You know how many times I had it malfunction? Zero. Android is a perfectly stable OS. Yes, there will sometimes be apps that don't work quite the same way on all devices. That is, in my view, an extremely acceptable--and expected--trade-off for hardware diversity. Not just the ability to use non-Apple approved applications, but also having far more features, keyboards--practically a requirement for heavy messagers/emailers--more vendors to choose from, better prices, and more choices in style.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
hkklife @ 3/24/2011 11:45:39 AM # Q
Adama, did Moto's lousy Blur skin not drive you completely bonkers? Other than that, the Pro is a pretty solid little machine.

I have to admit, Android 2.3/2.4 (aka Gingerbread) is pretty stable in its stock form on the Nexus models. It's still prone to bizarre random slowdowns & lag and the occasioinal launcher glitch. However, it's still got a long way to go from a usability/intuitive UI/PIM standpoint. Waitaminute--not "a long way to go". I don't expect Google to even bother addressing that in the long run since PIM isn't cool anymore.

Look at Honeycomb-it's cool looking but it's not very intuitive or even functional once you get past the Tron-esque eye candy. IMO, it also doesn't make very good use of the big 10.1" 1280x800 screen on the Xoom either.

That said, it is ALL well worth it for the diversity in hardware & software. I find it amusing to listen to my iPhone-owning friends tell me my Droid X or the Evo are too big, chunky, and hard to use....then turn around and start biotching about how their iPhone's screen is too small and they wish they could add more storage or easily swap out the battery.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/24/2011 12:01:28 PM # Q
this thread all reminds me of the old stories about how Windows Mobile was hopelessly broken, and if anyone used it they'd be rebooting every five minute and hard resetting on the hour. It was FUD then, and it's FUD now.

Amazingly, less people are using windows mobile now; it wasn't all FUD now, was it?

I had a Droid Pro for six weeks this winter, piled high with more apps than I knew what to do with, installing random apps, installing beta software, everything. You know how many times I had it malfunction? Zero. Android is a perfectly stable OS.

In my use of Android, I find the UI very slow and sluggish compared to ios; this is with most ios devices have lower specced hardware than android. Also there are aspects of Android which look half-done and have a very "beta" feel to them.

Depending on the hardware manufacturer, with Android, YMMV.

Yes, there will sometimes be apps that don't work quite the same way on all devices.

That's putting the fragmentation issue very mildly.

That is, in my view, an extremely acceptable--and expected--trade-off for hardware diversity.

To me that's unacceptable and further illustrates the fragmentation issue.

Not just the ability to use non-Apple approved applications, but also having far more features, keyboards--practically a requirement for heavy messagers/emailers--more vendors to choose from, better prices, and more choices in style.

Better prices? Perhaps, but that comes with poorly designed and more poorly built hardware. More vendors racing to the bottom.

BTW, with ios, you can sideload applications.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
HyperScheduler @ 3/24/2011 1:03:28 PM # Q
With iOS, I get the feeling that Apple, Steve Jobs et al. are passionately committed to making the devices amazing, mind-blowing, and easy to use and understand.

With Android, I just don't see *who* is the person or company with so much on the line that they would feel accountable to make Android devices amazing, mind-blowing, and easy to use.

The absence of accountability (or, to frame it negatively, ego) behind Android devices will be its decline.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/24/2011 2:48:50 PM # Q
To gekko, and everyone else proclaiming android is "open"
RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
AdamaDBrown @ 3/25/2011 12:09:47 AM # Q
Adama, did Moto's lousy Blur skin not drive you completely bonkers?

The Droid Pro has the "new" MOTOBLUR, which is supposed to be much less intrusive than the old one. I didn't notice it that much, but then I did install Launcher Pro and use that for my home screen most of the time.

My biggest complaint about the Droid Pro is that the battery life could be better--particularly for a device aimed at business travelers. Although I wouldn't turn down a better screen.

When I jump to Verizon, I'm most likely going to end up with either a Droid Pro, or possibly a Droid 2 Global. I have to check out the keyboard on the D2G, but it does have a lot of advantages, like more internal memory, bigger better screen, and faster processor.

That said, it is ALL well worth it for the diversity in hardware & software. I find it amusing to listen to my iPhone-owning friends tell me my Droid X or the Evo are too big, chunky, and hard to use....then turn around and start biotching about how their iPhone's screen is too small and they wish they could add more storage or easily swap out the battery.

Agreed.

jca...

Amazingly, less people are using windows mobile now; it wasn't all FUD now, was it?

Yes, it was. Windows Mobile declined because of a lack of development by Microsoft, lack of developer excitement because of newer, better platforms coming out, and the fact that there's no new Windows Mobile devices coming out, since Windows Phone 7 is a new operating system.

And if you want to equate market success to stability, well, more people are now using Android than the iPhone.

Better prices? Perhaps, but that comes with poorly designed and more poorly built hardware. More vendors racing to the bottom.

You'll have to inform all the people who use their HTC and Motorola built Android devices that they're using poorly designed, bottom bidder hardware. They'll laugh at you.

Really, this is getting ridiculous. To seriously argue that no other platform can be superior in any way to the iPhone; no one could really need expandable storage, or a removable battery, or physical keyboard; that any other device is inherently "less than" for the sole reason that it's not the iPhone? That's an utter loss of perspective.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/25/2011 10:35:52 AM # Q

When RIM finally brings out QNX-equipped smartphones — what it dubs 'superphones' — the big question is whether they will impress when stacked against the fast-moving competition.

More broadly, analysts are wondering if RIM is right to cling to an independent platform faced with the giant scale of Google's software, coupled with phone makers setting a furious pace of innovation.

"We've got Google out there flipping OS by themselves three times in a year and then all their hardware partner guys, beating their feet to the market as fast as they can with their latest and greatest hardware," said Ed Snyder from Charter Equity Research.

"Any one company that tries to do this by themselves will probably lose — including Apple in the long run," he said.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42270389

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
hkklife @ 3/25/2011 11:59:10 AM # Q
Adama, when are you planning to jump ship to VZW? I ask because if you can hold out for a few more months, the Droid 3 is reportedly waiting in the wings. I figure on a July-Aug launch, as VZW will target this one at the legions of Droid 1 owners whose bought theirs at launch and whose 2yr contracts are coming due and will be eligible for upgrade this summer.

It is rumored to be another Google Experience device (ie stock Android w/ no Blur) and have a very nice spec dump (4" 960*540 screen, reportedly dual core--maybe Tegra 2? Improved keyboard & camera, HDMI-out, and maybe the launch device for Ice Cream/2.4).

If you gotta have it now, I say go with the D2G or Droid X (Gingerbread update is supposedly coming next week).
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
BaalthazaaR @ 3/25/2011 2:35:09 PM # Q
Adama, when are you planning to jump ship to VZW? I ask because if you can hold out for a few more months, the Droid 3 is reportedly waiting in the wings. I figure on a July-Aug launch, as VZW will target this one at the legions of Droid 1 owners whose bought theirs at launch and whose 2yr contracts are coming due and will be eligible for upgrade this summer.

Or go with the HTC Thunderbolt right now and lock in the unlimited LTE data plan before Verizon introduces the tiered pricing over the summer.

P.S. I just took possession of my Thunderbolt. I've finally caved in and shelved the Palm TX.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
BaalthazaaR @ 3/25/2011 2:38:27 PM # Q
BaalthazaaR wrote:
Adama, when are you planning to jump ship to VZW? I ask because if you can hold out for a few more months, the Droid 3 is reportedly waiting in the wings. I figure on a July-Aug launch, as VZW will target this one at the legions of Droid 1 owners whose bought theirs at launch and whose 2yr contracts are coming due and will be eligible for upgrade this summer.

Or go with the HTC Thunderbolt right now and lock in the unlimited LTE data plan before Verizon introduces the tiered pricing over the summer.

P.S. I just took possession of my Thunderbolt. I've finally caved in and shelved the Palm TX.

This site still needs an edit your comment ability....

I forgot to mention that LTE right now is covered under the unlimited data plan for $29.99 (the same as 3G).

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/25/2011 2:47:58 PM # Q

Baalt -

welcome to 2011. it's about time.

ADB wants a physical keyboard.

how do you like the Thunderbolt? any problems with the 4G and/or hand off between 3G/4G? any dislikes?

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
BaalthazaaR @ 3/25/2011 3:49:39 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

Baalt -

welcome to 2011. it's about time.

ADB wants a physical keyboard.

how do you like the Thunderbolt? any problems with the 4G and/or hand off between 3G/4G? any dislikes?

It is still taking some time getting used to the device. I've had no connectivity problems so far, but I'm in an area with good LTE coverage. Also I've not had much time to get to know the device. I've only created a few shortcuts and configured my work e-mail (since that was the main reason I switched).

There is too much bloatware pre-installed, but I guess that is to be expected. The thunderbolt is very responsive and the UI is smooth.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/25/2011 4:15:31 PM # Q

one of my favorite apps -

http://code.google.com/p/android-notifier/wiki/Setup

others i installed -

NAME CATEGORY PRICE DATE STATUS
YouTube
MEDIA & VIDEO
Free
Feb 24, 2011
Complete
Google Translate
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enjoy!

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/26/2011 5:08:41 AM # Q

Yes, it was. Windows Mobile declined because of a lack of development by Microsoft, lack of developer excitement because of newer, better platforms coming out, and the fact that there's no new Windows Mobile devices coming out, since Windows Phone 7 is a new operating system.

The were steady releases of Windows Mobile; what killed it was the UI paradigm was all wrong, and Windows Mobile took the Android approach of "everything but the kitchen sink"

And if you want to equate market success to stability, well, more people are now using Android than the iPhone.

If you want to make any sort of argument like that, compare android to ios. In that regard, ios still fares pretty well.

You'll have to inform all the people who use their HTC and Motorola built Android devices that they're using poorly designed, bottom bidder hardware. They'll laugh at you.

I never said they were all junk; I like some samsung & HTC designs, but by and large there's alot of junk being made available for sale, in the name of "marketshare".

To seriously argue that no other platform can be superior in any way to the iPhone; no one could really need expandable storage, or a removable battery, or physical keyboard; that any other device is inherently "less than" for the sole reason that it's not the iPhone?

Is there better hw than the iphone? Easily.

Is there better mobile sw than ios? In many areas there is (notifications, gesture-based controls,), but there are also many issues (fragmentation, UI performance, sluggish OS performance on more highly specced hardware) which ios has avoided.

When you look at the complete package: hw + sw + ecosystem the iphone/ipad/ipod touch is hard to beat. That doesn't mean they're for everyone.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/26/2011 5:54:36 AM # Q
>but there are also many issues (fragmentation, UI performance, sluggish OS performance on more highly specced hardware)

this is all BS. do you forget that a bunch of us are actually using Android and see none of this? go play with an HTC EVO (which is almost a year old).

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
jca666us @ 3/26/2011 4:31:55 PM # M Q
Sorry Gekko,

That's been my experience with android phones and tablets.

I'd like to like android, but is still half baked in some respects.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
AdamaDBrown @ 3/27/2011 1:47:31 AM # Q
Gekko, I think that that article you posted quoting the analyst is bang on target. No one company is going to be able to dominate the smartphone market, and that includes Apple. They will probably remain the de facto number two OS for the foreseeable future--frankly, I don't see anyone capable of knocking them off that perch. QNX is an unproven commodity. Windows Phone 7 is likewise. WebOS is circling the drain. And at this point, anyone who wants to make headway against Android and iOS to create a third empire here is going to have to fight an uphill battle against an army of angry lion-riding giants. The only company which might have a prayer of a third way offering, I think, is RIM. They have the business cred to potentially offer enterprise solutions that Android and certainly not the iPhone are offering.

But one company, with one product, just cannot hold the market in check. Even if that product is still the best selling single smartphone. Palm learned that the hard way with the Treo. They had the smartphone everybody loved--and they still got surrounded and taken down like a wolfpack against a bear.

Adama, when are you planning to jump ship to VZW?

Not for awhile yet, actually. I had planned to do it ASAP, but come to find out I still have three months left on my 24 month contract with AT&T, which I thought ran out sooner. Which leaves me in Android withdrawal, but I'll survive.

I ask because if you can hold out for a few more months, the Droid 3 is reportedly waiting in the wings. I figure on a July-Aug launch, as VZW will target this one at the legions of Droid 1 owners whose bought theirs at launch and whose 2yr contracts are coming due and will be eligible for upgrade this summer.

It is rumored to be another Google Experience device (ie stock Android w/ no Blur) and have a very nice spec dump (4" 960*540 screen, reportedly dual core--maybe Tegra 2? Improved keyboard & camera, HDMI-out, and maybe the launch device for Ice Cream/2.4).

Drrooooooool.

Really, I can't imagine what more I would want than that. HDMI out and so forth is the sort of thing that I wouldn't buy a specific device for, but would be thrilled if what I chose had.

In truth, I would just as soon have some option that didn't require me to pay for LTE. The odds are that I'm not going to have it in my neck of the woods any time soon (AT&T around here still runs on EDGE!) and having it once in awhile running into Rochester isn't worth it. If I could, for instance, pay $25 a month to just have EVDO, versus $40 for EVDO and LTE, I would call that a deal.

Okay, now my Android lust is getting worse thinking about a Droid 3.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
BaalthazaaR @ 3/28/2011 9:58:29 AM # Q
AdamaDBrown wrote:

In truth, I would just as soon have some option that didn't require me to pay for LTE. The odds are that I'm not going to have it in my neck of the woods any time soon (AT&T around here still runs on EDGE!) and having it once in awhile running into Rochester isn't worth it. If I could, for instance, pay $25 a month to just have EVDO, versus $40 for EVDO and LTE, I would call that a deal.

Okay, now my Android lust is getting worse thinking about a Droid 3.

ADB, unlimited data plan on Verizon is currently $29.99 with LTE and EVDO included. Also Verizon stated in a press conference that they will switch to tiered pricing over the summer. One of the reasons that I switched when I did was to get on the unlimited plan before they introduced tiers. I did take a gamble that their tiered pricing will not be as attractively priced as the unlimited plan since they have not announced the pricing structure.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
BaalthazaaR @ 3/28/2011 10:30:51 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:

Baalt -

welcome to 2011. it's about time.

ADB wants a physical keyboard.

how do you like the Thunderbolt? any problems with the 4G and/or hand off between 3G/4G? any dislikes?

Dislikes :
1) battery life is too low. While I've made it through a day without recharging, I've gotten down to <15% battery left with some brief game playing.
2) This is more a general complaint with having no stylus. Selecting text is a pain due to not having precision
3) The screen is not flush with the bezel. There is a slight lip that has gotten annoying.
4) The favorite contacts panel has led to my accidental dialing people. Probably something I need to get used to

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/28/2011 11:23:35 AM # Q

make sure you turn the display brightness down, turn off WIFI, BT, GPS, and anything else you don't need on 24/7. turn them on as needed via toggle widgets. also - go into all bloatware settings and clear and eliminate all autosyncing for each app so you don't have the bloatware syncing behind your back all day. this includes News, Stocks, etc. Apps. i get all of my data directly from the sites so i have no use for these apps with the exception of the big HTC Weather Widget which i love.

one thing i like about the EVO vs. the Thunderbolt is ability to turn off the 4G. 4G is the biggest battery killer and it's my understanding that there's no manual toggle off on the Thunderbolt?

you'll get used to no stylus. bezel lip as-is protects screen. i don't use Contacts favorites - main People app is easy enough to quick search. make sure you check out Jorte Calendar.

i have the EVO version of this case and love it. you may want to consider it -

http://www.seidioonline.com/product-p/csk3htmec-bk.htm

have fun and enjoy.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
BaalthazaaR @ 3/28/2011 12:41:15 PM # Q
Gekko wrote:

make sure you turn the display brightness down, turn off WIFI, BT, GPS, and anything else you don't need on 24/7. turn them on as needed via toggle widgets. also - go into all bloatware settings and clear and eliminate all autosyncing for each app so you don't have the bloatware syncing behind your back all day. this includes News, Stocks, etc. Apps. i get all of my data directly from the sites so i have no use for these apps with the exception of the big HTC Weather Widget which i love.

I've already done that. I do want auto-sync for e-mail since that is the main reason to move to a smart phone. The only auto sync that I have turned on is my RSS reader.


one thing i like about the EVO vs. the Thunderbolt is ability to turn off the 4G. 4G is the biggest battery killer and it's my understanding that there's no manual toggle off on the Thunderbolt?

There is a software toggle for the data network. It does turn off the 4G, but I don't know if the EVDO gets turned off as well.

I do have a question for you though, for some reason my attempt to send a text message results in it sending a text message from some other number with a call back number as my phone number. Is there some setting that I need to fix?

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
BaalthazaaR @ 3/28/2011 1:05:50 PM # Q
BaalthazaaR wrote:
I do have a question for you though, for some reason my attempt to send a text message results in it sending a text message from some other number with a call back number as my phone number. Is there some setting that I need to fix?

Google'd the problem. It seems to be a bug with the phone. Current quick fix is to pop out the battery for 15 secs.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/28/2011 2:07:29 PM # Q

1. of course you want autosync on for email. i was talking about bloatware and the other crap you may not use.
2. never heard of that SMS issue. strange.
3. no need to turn off EVDO. it's the 4G that's the battery killer.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
hkklife @ 3/28/2011 5:34:31 PM # Q
ADB,

Droid 3 will be a very awesome device if it has HDMI-out. OTOH, I don't think any Android device with a physical keyboard has shipped with HDMI out yet.

You'd be surprised at how handy HDMI out is on a smartphone. It has served me well on my Droid X just for running an impromptu presentation for work or showing pics/vids to friends & family. You can find an HDMI port on many midrange hotel LCD TVs now as well as a side-mounted port on nearly all newer HDTVs. I wish my DX would do fullscreen mirroring (the new Xoom tablet does, which would make for an awesome gaming/browsing device).

I carry around a 10ft microHDMI cable in my laptop bag for such purposes. The EVO 3D has that new combo HDMI-microUSB MHL port which looks pretty cool but I worry about it lacking support on most of the newer TVs (a problem HDMI-CEC is still plagued with).
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro-> Verizon Moto Droid X + Palm TX

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
Gekko @ 3/29/2011 8:31:33 PM # Q

or you could just hire a hooker.

RE: iPad copycats: Zuned to failure?
AdamaDBrown @ 3/29/2011 10:33:20 PM # Q
ADB, unlimited data plan on Verizon is currently $29.99 with LTE and EVDO included. Also Verizon stated in a press conference that they will switch to tiered pricing over the summer.

I know. What with Sprint having attached an extra $10 pricetag to their 4G devices, I was rather hoping that VZW would do split level pricing, with 3G getting a break. But I'm well aware that it's probably wild delusional hope that Verizon would actually reduce the cost of their data plans. If anything, they'd just tack on another premium to the 4G stuff.

You'd be surprised at how handy HDMI out is on a smartphone. It has served me well on my Droid X just for running an impromptu presentation for work or showing pics/vids to friends & family. You can find an HDMI port on many midrange hotel LCD TVs now as well as a side-mounted port on nearly all newer HDTVs.

Your point about hotel LCDs is a good one that I hadn't thought of, possibly because I rarely stay in hotels. But yes, it seems like a useful sort of thing. My home 32" LCD TV has an HDMI port, but alas it's only the one, and that one is occupied by the DVR.

I wish my DX would do fullscreen mirroring (the new Xoom tablet does, which would make for an awesome gaming/browsing device).

I want a Xoom so damn badly.

RE: iPad copycats
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/3/2011 7:17:13 PM # Q
I want a Xoom so damn badly.

I hope you get one. You deserve it. No, really.

FJH

Reply to this comment
RE: AT&T To Buy T-Mobile For $39 Billion
jca666us @ 3/20/2011 2:49:36 PM # Q
Next up; verizon buys Sprint?
RE: AT&T To Buy T-Mobile For $39 Billion
LiveFaith @ 3/22/2011 10:11:08 PM # Q
Yep. Coming soon,a monopoly with two different names.
Pat Horne
RE: AT&T To Buy T-Mobile For $39 Billion
CFreymarc @ 3/24/2011 10:34:38 AM # Q
That is not all cash. Mostly stock swap. AT&T will be lucky to have 20% market share with this deal. Far from a monopoly.
RE: AT&T To Buy T-Mobile For $39 Billion
AdamaDBrown @ 3/24/2011 11:11:16 AM # Q
20% market share? This is going to make AT&T the largest US wireless provider with 130 million subscribers. That's more like 40% than 20. And yes, "monopoly." Verizon and AT&T fundamentally have no real intention of competing with each other beyond what's necessary for marketing, like 4G rollout. On price? Forget about it. You'll pay basically the same inflated price no matter which service provider you're with. That's deliberate non-competition.
RE: AT&T To Buy T-Mobile For $39 Billion
LiveFaith @ 4/2/2011 1:51:59 PM # Q
... In the name of choice.
Pat Horne
Reply to this comment

Tumbleweed...

zinzan @ 3/26/2011 9:22:35 AM # Q
Wow over a month without a new headline on the page...
Not even any mention of HP planning to ship WebOS preinstalled on it's new PCs?!
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
RE: Tumbleweed...
Tuckermaclain @ 3/26/2011 12:27:06 PM # Q
Yeah. I thought the same thing.
RE: Tumbleweed...
Gekko @ 3/26/2011 3:41:53 PM # Q

news flash - this is what a dead platform looks like. we warned you years ago that it was coming.

RE: Tumbleweed...
jca666us @ 3/26/2011 4:34:07 PM # M Q
Still there's plenty going on in mobile computing - maybe time for this site to be re-branded.
RE: Tumbleweed...
bhartman34 @ 3/27/2011 1:47:30 PM # Q
Regardless of what you think of the WebOS platform, it's still in active development, and there are still devices being released for it, and hence, news about it. Compare the age of this article to the age of the most recent PreCentral article.
RE: Tumbleweed...
Gekko @ 3/27/2011 2:36:38 PM # Q

those bible thumpers at PreCentral are just playing Weekend at Bernie's.

RE: Tumbleweed...
bhartman34 @ 3/28/2011 3:54:42 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:

those bible thumpers at PreCentral are just playing Weekend at Bernie's.

I disagree. WebOS still exists, and HP is putting out new products with it. What's different from before the announcement of the Pre 3, Veer, and TouchPad? I certainly can't argue with the idea that things aren't what they once were, but on a site that covers WebOS news, shouldn't WebOS news be covered until it's retired?

RE: Tumbleweed...
Gekko @ 3/28/2011 9:23:56 AM # Q

at
Reply to this comment

The Freight Train That Is Android

Gekko @ 3/26/2011 4:49:06 PM # Q

So here is the kicker. Android, as well as Chrome and Chrome OS for that matter, are not "products" in the classic business sense. They have no plan to become their own "economic castles." Rather they are very expensive and very aggressive "moats," funded by the height and magnitude of Google's castle. Google's aim is defensive not offensive. They are not trying to make a profit on Android or Chrome. They want to take any layer that lives between themselves and the consumer and make it free (or even less than free). Because these layers are basically software products with no variable costs, this is a very viable defensive strategy. In essence, they are not just building a moat; Google is also scorching the earth for 250 miles around the outside of the castle to ensure no one can approach it. And best I can tell, they are doing a damn good job of it.

http://abovethecrowd.com/2011/03/24/freight-train-that-is-android/

RE: The Freight Train That Is Android
jca666us @ 3/27/2011 6:39:47 AM # Q
Two things being neglected here:

1. Oracle's lawsuit against Google.
Misappropriating Java could potentially put a big hurt on Android.

2. Google's lack of patents for Android.
Every Android licensee without a decent patent portfolio is at risk.

Reply to this comment

RIM: The inmates have taken over the asylum

Gekko @ 3/28/2011 5:44:54 AM # Q

RIM: The inmates have taken over the asylum
March 27, 2011 - 5:00 pm
by Jean-Louis Gassée

http://www.mondaynote.com/2011/03/27/rim-the-inmates-have-taken-over-the-asylum/

RE: RIM: The inmates have taken over the asylum
AdamaDBrown @ 3/29/2011 10:39:43 PM # Q
An unfortunate assessment for RIM, one which I frankly can't disagree with. Those comments by their top brass sound remarkably like the sort of defensive, information free spin that is put out when a company doesn't have any coherent strategy for their market. We here remember it best from Palm--anyone recall the prediction re: Apple that "the PC guys aren't just going to walk in" to the smartphone market? And you can find dozens of other examples--Tapwave, Access, PalmSource, others--all bearing the same faint odor of desperation and obfuscation.

Honestly, I think RIM is making a mistake trying to play in the tablet field. If they could come up with a really good angle on it that connects to the rest of their business, great. An enterprise data terminal, for instance. But making a tablet for it's own sake, from a company whose traditional strength is not in the hardware part of the business, strikes me as a somewhat desperate attempt to throw things at the wall and see if they stick.

RE: RIM: Still aive and kicking. Unlike Be or PalmSource.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/3/2011 7:15:23 PM # Q
Oh and Gassee is a reliable reporter. Get a clue, Missy.

This is the same arrogant twerp that played "chicken" and lost (massively) with Apple, then proceded to run Be into the ground. He's bitter because he's nothing but a washed up chode. At least RIM is still in business.

FJH

Reply to this comment

The last commentor at PIC...

Tuckermaclain @ 4/3/2011 8:17:33 AM # Q
please turn the lights out. PIC has been a wonderful place to discuss Palm OS and IMO the absolute zenith was with the release of the m505. The Palm OS community came together to exchange ideas and help each other out.

FF to 2011. Last story from 2 months ago. Same handful of people hanging around 1 thread for 2 months.

What advertiser is going to want to buy space here? Maybe the staff has left already and are involved in other ventures leaving PIC on autopilot while they collect a little revenue from the active advertisers.

For me, Palm ended with great certainty at the intro of WebOS. Ed was asking everybody to take everything they loves about Palm and flush it down the toilet. In typical Palm fashion they brought a Palm OS emulator on board later. Again, a day late and a dollar short.

I will soldier on with my little collection of Palms. Each ready to run or donate a part so that I can keep one running to use as my handheld PDA/reference library/ work computer. I'm sure somebody out there is perfectly happy with his Newton, and if it works for him then God bless him.

Good night.

Reply to this comment

Sweet Jesus! WTF has happened to Palminfocenter???

Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/3/2011 7:05:22 PM # Q
Well I just dropped in to see what's been happening in my absence and saw the last story posted is from hkklife dated February 15, 2011. 6 WEEKS without a new article. Wow. Shame.

What about this little nugget:

"WebOS on Every PC

Apotheker says he also wants to make better use of WebOS, the computer-operating system acquired last year when Hewlett- Packard purchased smartphone maker Palm Inc. for $1.2 billion. Starting next year, every one of the PCs shipped by HP will include the ability to run WebOS in addition to Microsoft Corp.'s Windows, Apotheker said.

The move is aimed at enticing software developers to create a wider range of applications that would differentiate HP PCs, printers, tablets and phones from those sold by rivals.

"You create a massive platform," Apotheker said.

Programmers have built more than 350,000 apps for devices made by Apple Inc. and more than 250,000 for Google Inc.'s Android Market. WebOS has 6,000 apps, according to HP."

http://preview.tinyurl.com/67hduet

Or the fact that the DateBk6 author created a standalone desktop calendar app (Pimlical) that syncs with webOS AND he's also recently released a version of Pimlical for Android.

Where is Timmmmmayyyy to do another PalmOS versus iPhone showdown? Would Treo still "win" this time?

Where are the stories on apps, feature comparisons between Android and webOS?

Retrospectives on Palm: 10 years ago what was happening in the Palm world?

Where are our "friends" from Access? What happened with their promises of ALP-OS taking over the world?

I have a jailbroken iPhone 4 with 400 apps (but still also carry a Centro or occasionally a Treo) so I'd be happy to answer any questions about apps iOS app coming from a PalmOS user's perspective.

If the site is going to be kept online at least make some effort. Palminfocenter shouldn't turn into another PalmStation.com

FJH

RE: Sweet Jesus! WTF has happened to Palminfocenter???
gmayhak @ 4/4/2011 7:31:28 AM # Q
"every one of the PCs shipped by HP will include the ability to run WebOS.."

Cool ! All future HP PCs will have capacitive touch screens. He's fos.
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

Reply to this comment

HP needs instant user base. FLOOD the market with webOS!!!

Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/3/2011 7:45:01 PM # Q
HP should be pricing the TouchPad barely above cost in an effort to gain marketshare ASAP. Or have a deal where if you buy a TouchPad you get a free unlocked Veer. They need buzz. They need developers, developers, developers, developers, developers! They need OS speed and bulletproof stability. They need all the pieces of the puzzle fitting perfectly together from Day 1 of Launch Day .

Otherwise iPhone 5, a cheaper iPhone 4 and 50 upcoming Android phones running Ice Cream Sandwich are going to break into webOS ICU room and pull the plug while Nurse Ruby (in drag!!!) is on his/her coffee break.

FJH

RE: HP needs instant user base. FLOOD the market with webOS!!!
jca666us @ 4/4/2011 4:36:44 AM # Q
webos is dead already.
RE: HP needs instant user base. FLOOD the market with webOS!!!
nastebu @ 4/4/2011 7:47:34 AM # Q
They also need to make money. If you release something as basically free, how are you going to charge more for it later? You're losing on each unit but trying to make it up in volume.
RE: HP needs instant user base. FLOOD the market with webOS!!!
bhartman34 @ 4/4/2011 8:47:47 AM # Q
jca666us wrote:
webos is dead already.

I wouldn't necessarily call WebOS dead. But it's certainly on life support. I think HP can turn things around, if they put some serious thought into hardware. They need to do more than just bump the Pre up 1/2 an inch, though. At the very least, they need a better camera and a micro-SD card slot. And WebOS needs to change. It needs, among other things:

1) Real backup. I don't care if it's on the host computer or in the cloud, but WebOS needs to save all your data somewhere, so that you're not screwed if you need to wipe your phone.

2) A better note app

3) Voice recognition

4) Better integration between notes and the calendar.

5) Last, but not least, more apps. I don't care if they have to pay developers in gold bars to get them. They need more apps to compete. To do this, they need to open the API up. If not they at least need to make the apps themselves.

RE: HP needs instant user base. FLOOD the market with webOS!!!
LiveFaith @ 4/4/2011 8:11:53 PM # Q
Nice list and good info there.

I have my doubts that HP even plans to truly compete in the phone game. Their words can in no way be believed, so we must look at their actions. The Pre3 & Veer are the answer to the Android / iPhone juggernauts?!?!? Answer supplied IMO.
Pat Horne

Why I still think webOS could be a game changer. Trust in Jeff...
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/4/2011 9:27:00 PM # Q
I baffled by what HP has done with webOS. Before, when Palm released the Pre I could rationalize the shoddy hardware and lack of a full lineup of phones by saying Palm had a shoestring budget and was just trying to release SOMETHING as a proof of concept in order to get bought out.

Fast forward a YEAR, and HP has done nothing but sit on their sorry a$$es while one phone after another gets anounced and released with updated versions of Android and killer specs. And the iPhone 4 is still one of the sweetest hardware packages on the market, with software updates coming out with reassuring frequency. Yet despite near-unlimited financial resources and plenty of time, HP has given us nothing but the traditional Palm-styled incremental (glacial) updates and vaporware. It's almost as if someone at HP is trying to sabotage webOS. Had RIM or Nokia been the one to acquire webOS it would have had the potential to quickly become a major option for those of us who dislike iOS or Android.

WTF is going on here, HP? Why the hell did you buy webOS if you were just going to do NOTHING with it? What a colossal waste of a creative OS.

BUT...

If HP is true to their word and installs webOS on the desktop and webOS is able to scale properly AND sync apps + data smoothly between The Cloud, smartphone and desktop in a users profile we might have something worth waiting for. But that's a lot of ifs. The stillborn dream of the Foleo and PalmLinux syncing data on apps that were scalable on Treo, Foleo and desktop should have been realized by now. Evernote and OneNote give clues as to the benefits of apps on different platforms with access to the same data. If HP can develop the multi-platform (smartphone/tablet/laptop/desktop) syncing paradigm and implement it throughout its product line, the delays will have been worth it. But if all we end up with is third rate products like the Pre 3 and the Veer, we would have been better off if Palm had jut opensourced webOS and let more creative minds run with it.

Open letter to Jon Rubenstein and "Lucky" Leo :

STFU until you have something worthy of our time. No more B.S. No more "announce and wait 6 months". Deliver or go home. Time's up.

FJH

PalmOS freeware to purchase
HyperScheduler @ 4/5/2011 9:11:20 AM # Q
Dear Fake Jeff Hawkins,

Welcome back! Your posts are very insightful (I especially liked the one you wrote a while back about how to make the transition from Palm OS to modern superphones).

Do you (or anyone reading this) wish to make a small amount of cash? I would like to see if you could please collect all of your PalmOS freeware on to an SD card that I could buy from you. My interest is creating a long-term archive of PalmOS apps before it becomes impossible to download off of the internet.

If you are interested in this project, please e-mail me at HyperScheduler@yahoo.com


Sincerely,

HyperScheduler

RE: HP needs instant user base. FLOOD the market with webOS!!!
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/5/2011 6:23:34 PM # Q
http://www.freewarepalm.com/

Someone might email you a link you may find useful. If you register at the site in the email just make sure to scan everything you download for viruses, though. The on-device keygens are brilliant, especially those by "Georg". Enjoy.

FJH

Reply to this comment

Looks like Roger McNamee wasnt a total doofus after all

Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/4/2011 9:35:29 PM # Q
Then again, maybe he's just a very lucky SOB. Of course, all it will take is for a disaster to hit Facebook and these Monopoly Money Millions will all be worthless again. 1999 dot coms in SF, here I come!


http://www.davemanuel.com/2011/01/15/bono-hits-home-run-with-facebook-investment/


FJH

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Another former webOS team member gone.

Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 4/4/2011 10:31:28 PM # Q
Joe Hayashi (VP of Product Management - webOS) at Palm and HP has left HP for Jeff Hawkins' open arms at Numenta. They're dropping like FLIES, I tell ya! FLIES!

FJH

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