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Comments on: New Clié Available in Japan

There was a new Sony Clié released in Japan today. Sony has already posted information about it on their site, in Japanese. This makes figuring out the details very difficult for us non-Japanese speakers but with the help of Babelfish, much can be learned.

It is called the PEG-N700C and has a front lighted, reflective TFT color screen at 320x320 resolution, probably using pixel doubling in which four pixels take the place of each one in the usual resolution.

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Just when you thought it was safe...

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2001 7:22:53 PM #
Is this some kind of trend with Handspring, Palm and now Sony releasing their new devices around the same period (note end of 1st quarter).

It would be interesting to really see what the new Clie is all about and how it will stack up agains the rest of the new devices.

PalmPlan

RE: Just when you thought it was safe...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 11:52:26 AM #
The companies bringing their new products around the end of the 1st quarter is pretty logical - every March there's CeBIT, the biggest Computer Exhibition in the World. It starts again next week; that's why everybody presents new products.

RE: Just when you thought it was safe...
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 1:40:49 PM #
looks like a great device!

COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2001 7:26:04 PM #
Sony have always had fantastic color screens. Hope they'll take some of that know how and release a color screen on the Clie that'll rival those on their laptop!

MP3 Player...okay, Bluetooth...may be a bit early, but a knock out color screen?
YEAH!...I want to leave Pleasantville!!!

RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2001 7:39:51 PM #
Yes, where is the color clie? I went to the Sony Store and they know nothing about the normal b&w clie, let alone the color. Maybe if they brought it out sales would not be so low. I was looking for a new pda and couldn't find the Sony to buy. Perhaps it's their low supply that causes their low reports. Come on and bring the color to North America now. Shit man.

RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2001 9:39:11 PM #
Well, the color can't really be better unless they up the bit rate from 16, to say, 24. I've seen reports both yea and nay that OS 4.0 can handle 24-bit color. Keep in mind, this could make the thing suck battery power like an, egad!, Pocket PC (just tried an iPaq for 2 weeks and have to say that Palm has NOTHING to fear, the software and the unit are truly awful products).
Anyway, I think bluetooth really is the future. With almost all wireless modems having far too large a form factor, picture a Bluetooth equiped Clie (memory stick of course) with a likewise bluetooth Nokia 8200 series (cell manufacturers are already producing bluetooth batteries and are expected to begin ramping up production). And when you factor in GPRS.... Don't laugh, it's all closer than you think. Think how far things have progressed just in the last year.

RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2001 9:46:59 PM #
The news mentioned that the color Clie all quickly sold out in Japan. Any one has any pictures/info on the color clie?

RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 5:00:43 AM #
Just curious as to why you palm people allways feel the need to slam PPCs even when the discussion has nothing to do with them.

RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
Nate @ 3/14/2001 11:37:55 AM #
The US introduction of the original "color Clie," which was the PEG500, was delayed because of the bad reviews and bad sales in Japan - the screen on it was not good, and it did poorly in Japan. They decided to delay the introduction of the color version for North America until they had improved the screen. Well, now they've done that, and all we have to do is wait for them to figure out their production levels and we'll have them here. I can't wait.

_________
Syncplicity. Redefining Simple. www.cognitiveroot.com
RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
fleegle @ 3/14/2001 12:28:50 PM #
"Just curious as to why you palm people allways feel the need to slam PPCs even when the discussion has nothing to do with them."

Maybe it is because you PPC people come on the Palm websites like Palmstation.com and here and try to slam the Palm devices and tout how great the PPCs are compared to Palms and the never ending blather about "Just wait until the PPC OS v4!", "PPCs rock!", etc.

So, my question to you is "Why do you PPC people come on Palm sites and always feel the need to slam Palm devices when the discussion has nothing to do with PPCs?"


RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 6:41:07 PM #
I'm a longtime Palm supporter, from the original Pilot to my current Vx ang TRGPro, so I believe I have a fairly good handle on what PalmOS PDAs offer. But I can tell you that I have used a prototype PocketPC 4 Casio in the past few weeks and Microsoft really has got it right now. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend a PPC4 for someone looking for very basic PIM needs (the m105 is a rugged model that fits the bill), power users will likely embrace the new M$ models this summer.

Let's try to keep the flames to a minimum and just let the market decide which OS is best for which users. Thanks.

RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2001 1:34:02 PM #
Uhhm, I don't think so. I have had it with Microsoft's misinformation campaign on the Pocket PC. These devices are a piece of junk. They are not "Palms for power users"!! Pocket PCs have a horrendous interface, terrible PIM software, they will only sync with Windows PCs, and even then only with Microsoft Outlook and nothing else, not even Outlook Express! Their additional advertised functions over the Palm's are overstated and misleading. These things are too slow and cumbersome for use as a word processor or spreadsheet.

So finally, you asked for it... Here's a list of just why I hate Pocket PCs. This is a list of negatives based on my evaluation of an HP Jornada 545, which I have been using as my only pocket computer for about a year, after having owned a Palm for just as long. This should silence anyone claiming that I "haven't given it a fair chance."

Newer models may have some improvements, generally minor improvements in memory and speed, but the core problems inherent to the Pocket PC OS remain
the same. Items with asterisks represent fatal flaws.

*Only syncs contacts & calendar with MS Outlook. (Unacceptable!)

*Only syncs email with Outlook, but not Outlook Express. (Unacceptable!)

*Pocket Outlook only displays contacts by last name - no option to list or sort by first name or by company name! (Unacceptable!)

*Pocket Outlook only allows searching by first or last name, not by company name - forced to use clunky and slow Start menu Find command instead.
(Unacceptable!)

* Can't password-protect individual contacts, files, folders, records, or categories. Even $20 organizers have this essential feature.(Unacceptable!)

* No task bar. Extremely difficult and frustrating to switch between running apps. Microsoft actually claims this was in response to customer demand for simpler interface!!

*Calendar doesn't display appointment, holiday, or anniversary indicators in year view... will display in month view only if scheduled time is designated as "busy", "tentative", or "out of office". So to display birthdays and holidays, for example, in the month view, you have to manually edit them one by one and change their status from the default "free" setting
(Unacceptable!)

*16MB of memory, though twice that of Palm, is still barely adequate for PocketPC's applications and totally inadequate if you plan to add any more
apps or games. Pocket PC is a HUGE memory hog.

* Storage memory also serves as RAM for running applications, and expanded (CF card) memory can't be used as RAM. So device's ability to run applications is permanently limited by the amount of pre-installed RAM.

* CF cards are very EXPENSIVE.

* Pocket Streets is severely crippled and buggy, apparently intentionally. Positioning of pushpins imported from Streets & Trips 2001 not even remotely
accurate. Existing pushpins cannot be manually repositioned. Pushpins cannot be created directly from entered addresses but must be manually placed. No
software available in US to create maps of European cities. Streets only labeled with state/interstate road numbers, and not by locally recognizable names or numbers. In summary, almost completely worthless and misleading marketing gimmick. (Unacceptable!)

* No Close or Exit button on most applications. Only way to shut them down is to reboot PocketPC.

No synchronization support at all for Apple computers.

Battery life adequate if device is used mainly as a PIM, but not for extended uses such as MP3 player, word processing, spreadsheet calculations, etc.

Pocket versions of Word and Excel not very useful in the real world due to memory, processor speed, and display size limitations.

MP3 player useless unless you spend substantial additional money for a storage card. Microsoft's claims for proprietary WMA format's audio quality
and file sizes are exaggerated and misleading. Limited battery life and limited, awkward interface further reduce this feature's usefulness.

ActiveSync, used to synchronize with PC, is buggy and unstable resource hog.

Contrary to published and advertised claims, HP's screen only supports 4,096 colors, not 65,000.

Start menu is very difficult to customize, doesn't support folders, and is located on top instead of bottom where any Windows user would expect it to
be.

Battery meter largely hidden from view. Should be on top of every screen.

Pocket Internet Explorer lacks text string search - hard to find desired place in large web documents.

Pocket IE Mobile Favorites doesn't support folders for organization.

Pocket IE Mobile Favorites doesn't allow adding shortcuts by entering their address directly.

Audio recording level too low for convenient use.

Audio recordings can't be listened to on PC.

HP models, at least, don't support type-2 CF cards.

HP's application and power buttons too small. Device's large face area is wasted.

Much slower performance than Palm in spite of PPC's much faster processor.


RE: COLOR PEOPLE COLOR!!!!
Raishe_werk @ 8/13/2001 2:38:22 PM #
Easy tiger

-Raishe
"Monster Pig kills Jesus
More at 11"

colour clie

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2001 9:51:38 PM #
sony's worried about slow sales... well, if you could actually get any of these things ANYWHERE in Canada, let alone North America, then maybe they wouldn't have this problem.

impossible to find here (in Canada) at all, i've only seen them down at circuit city in seattle when i took a trip there a week ago...

if they brought it out now in north america, they'd have a jump on the m505 before thats released, for sure.

on a side note to the m505, i was at Comdex Canada West in Vancouver today (13/03/01) and most of the Palm guys there said "no comment on any new Palm products", but i was able to get a little farther with one guy, who said Palm is NOT releasing anything next week (counter to the rumour that the m50x will be out march19) and as far as the model # of the "m505", there's no such thing as far as Palm Canada is concerned...

make of that what you will.

RE: colour clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 3:07:47 AM #
Hey another Vancouverite! I was going to go to Comdex today, but for sure tomorrow. Piled up on work today. I think Palm Canada is on a "need-to-know" basis with the rest of the US company. Let's wait till Monday to see what happens.

But this Sony is right on the money. They're a music company and audio is their life. It makes sense to play that card against Palm & Handspring. They never offer anything besides new looks.

The pictures look great. I hope North America sees alot of these now. Get your ass moving Sony!

RE: N700C - m505 watch out!
GregGaub @ 3/13/2001 11:44:54 PM #
Yeah, now THAT looks slick!
Looks like MP3 and video playback is the push there... also color! :)
I can't read Katakana, though, anyone? The few bits of English say things like: Audio Player, TV Scape, gMovie (same as before?), and Navin' You Pocket (a web browser?). Also notice in the specs table it says 320x320 dots for LCD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :O
33mhs Dragonball VZ, of course. PalmOS 3.5... hmmm...
Looks like the audio player/headphones have a frequency response of 20-20k. good enough. ;-)
If that unit hits the US any time near when the m505 does, there will be some STIFF competition.

m505, watch out!!



RE: N700C
GregGaub @ 3/13/2001 11:50:45 PM #
oops, forgot to mention... the device itself looks really neat. The MP3/audio seems to have an external controller like many of Sony's audio products do... inline with the headphone cable. And, if I didn't know better, I'd say there was a stylus tip at one end of the audio remote.
Also, the spec table mentions 8megs DRAM, and 8megs FLASH. Either that's Flash ROM for the syste, or they kept the memory stick. It would make sense to keep the memory stick with that audio player. In which case... watch out m505...
'course... anyone wanna place bets that this one never makes it stateside?

Sell it in the US!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 12:20:52 AM #
This is a wickedly slick palm machine!
Sony would be _foolish_ not to release the device in the US and the rest of the world.

It's about time decent music & video came built in to a Palm OS device. Now the CE fools will have nothing on us.

RE: Sell it in the US!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 6:08:03 AM #
Heard that new HandEra from TRG also support the MP3 format!

RE: Sell it in the US!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 8:32:44 AM #
Wait until May for the U.S. version.

RE: Sell it in the US!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2001 1:57:26 PM #
Expect it in May? I thought I read that it would hit the US "by the end of the year."

It seems great when comparing m505 and even visor edge

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 1:08:18 AM #
according to the illustration above, the missing parts should be:
5: Back Button
6: Hold Switch
17: USB Cradle

RE: It seems great when comparing m505 and even visor edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 6:45:04 AM #
5: Back Button
^^^^^^^^^^^this button can be used to work with the jog dial for convenience
6: Hold Switch
^^^^^^^^^^^^this is used when you are listening music ( just like regular music player's hold button)


J-Doc for HighRez & Palmscape4.0

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 1:58:13 AM #
RE: J-Doc for HighRez & Palmscape4.0
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 1:13:19 PM #
Wow, look at the that link above (it's in Japanese, but don't miss the forward navigation prompts), tons of screenshots. Now tell me if you still want your iPaq?

If i buy this in hong kong..

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 1:44:00 AM #
If I buy this new clie, is there any way for me to use it in English? I don't know Japanese. Are there English patches for clie or hacks (i've heard of one for translating menus)

RE: If i buy this in hong kong..
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 3:59:39 PM #
technically, it's doable. there are chinese program out there that can totally chinese-lize the palm OS 3.0- 3.5 menu.


like CJKOS (http://www.dyts.com/en/locscreen.html) you can use the smae method to localize the menu into english, they did just that for the original clie. of course, the demade is so low the author doesn't bother to make an eng version. If you are super rich or something you can have somebody who understand the chinese localize program and document localize it for you. Just for the original color clie though, not the new stuff.

(that cjkos is really one of the best and most updated app i ever used. thumbs up)
CY

Here's my Check Book!!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 2:48:31 AM #
I hear they're having problems with sales for the Clie?

WELL DAGNAMIT IF THEY HAVE THIS IN THE US TODAY WE'LL BE BREAKING DOWN THE DOORS AT CIRCUIT CITY/GOOD GUYS/BEST BUY/(FILL IN THE BLANK) FOR IT AND TAKE CARE OF THAT PESKY LITTLE SALES PROBLEM!!!!

Why can't I get these people to take my Money!!!!

RE: Here's my Check Book!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 6:49:46 AM #
yeah. is anyone from Japan would like to buy one for me...I will pay you the money...(via paypal)

Sony@gnaihc.com

thanks

RE: Here's my Check Book!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 3:12:56 PM #
Suggest we send a bunch of emails to www.dynamism.com who are a company that specialises in exporting hitech goodies from Japan. If they see enough interest they may get involved.

The ???

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 8:00:20 AM #
5 - Back button (probably for Palmscape?)
6 - Hold switch (locks out button presses)
17 - USB (just a guess)

VERY much doubt M505 will half as good ..

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 8:41:44 AM #

Sony would be crazy if they dont release this awesome CLIE outside Japan.

As for Palm m505, I don't see why people are so hyped up on it. It's going to be a sack of sh*t.... no multimedia, no improved speaker, no aditional software, 160x160... whats the point? Its basically a color Vx with a SD slot.
Palm are so hopped up on their V series form factor and "keeping it simple" ... theres no innovation or anything...

Im saving my $$$ for the color CLIE!!


RE: VERY much doubt M505 will half as good ..
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 8:45:40 AM #
the m505 will be very god for those who are not the multimedia peeps that sony is marketing to. if you look at teh features and the placement of the clie in teh marketplace you cna see that it is not just a pda but a Personal Multimedia Device. a pmd if you will. that is a totally different market than the simple business professionals that palm markets the m505 to.

plus, if i remeber correctly, in a previous interview didnt palm say that with the relese of the m505 and os4 that there would be the palm liscensees doing more with the palm platform than ever before. jsut think. if sony is doing this now. wait till the next gen (after teh m5 series) of palms look adn perform when that come out.

RE: VERY much doubt M505 will half as good ..
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 12:11:11 PM #
It's not all about features. If my PalmIII had a clearer screen and memory expansion (Like the TRGpro) I wouldn't want to upgrade for a while.

I love that Sony is expanding the platform to meet the "power user" market. I also like that Palm (and friends) have kept the Palm platform diversified. Unlike WinCE, there are still products available for those who don’t need (or want to pay for) all the bells and whistles.

Does anyone else see the similarities between the PC/Mac competition of the 80’s and the PocketPC/Palm competition of today? Only this time, the PocketPC is on the short end of the stick. Ironic.

My two cents.


RE: VERY much doubt M505 will half as good ..
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 1:28:13 PM #
We do need to wait to see how good it is. Remember, the iPaq would be a Palm killer if the thing actually worked and was a quality product. Granted, while Palm OS 3.5 is a known quantity and the seemingly perfect platform, the Clie's physical unit could have bugs, the processor could potentially be too slow for true video playback. We just don't know.

Secondly, I doubt Palm sees the success of it's licensees as a real problem. It just proliferates the platform that much more. Remember, M$ doesn't make desktops or laptops.

Screen

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 8:49:00 AM #
I'd buy one today if for no other reason than the 320x320 display. Anybody wanna set up an import business?

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 2:28:23 PM #
If it's a true 320x320, that's great (and non- Palm-standard at the moment), but if it's just 160x160 double-pixeled to 320x320, that's worthless (and in my opinion, would look like crap).

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 2:46:11 PM #
Chicken and egg my friend. Something has to come first and nobody is going to write 320x320 software if there's no display to support it. ;)

I would think that at least some of the built in apps (photo viewer, web browser) would support the higher resolution. That would be nice.

Regarding color, I'm sure that the combination of 320x320 and 24bit color would have been a huge draw on memory and processor - something you don’t want if your trying to get the thing to play video.

RE: Screen
songdog @ 3/14/2001 3:37:33 PM #
I've been hoping for a pixel-doubled 320x320 screen for some time. There's no need to limit the display to 2x2 pixel squares, either, even for old apps. Why not use antialiased fonts? Even with 256 colors you've got enough shades of gray to greatly reduce eyestrain, which is great for those of us that read books, articles, webpages, etc, on our PalmOS devices. Good job, Sony! I'm still waiting to see Palm's next move, though ...

RE: Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2001 9:20:40 PM #
Why no mention of the new Clie's color depth? I've searched everywhere and even translated much of Sony's Japanese Clie site, but found nothing on this.

The Handspring Visor already has 24-bit color, so I don't see any technical roadblock.

I think it would be a waste to provide a "multimedia" handheld with a crappy, heavily dithered, 8-bit (256-color) display. I think 16-bit should be the minimum, with 24-bit color more than enough for almost anyone. If the PPC's can handle high color while maintaing reasonable battery life, I don't see why the Palms can't do the same with their simpler applications, smaller screens, and lower power processors.

Also, since it has a Memory Stick slot, and since I saw some illustrations showing a Memory Stick going straight from a digital camera to a color Clie, does that mean we can view digital images natively without having to convert them to a lower resolution? That's something I hated about viewing pix with the Palm IIIc.



RE: IMPORTING CLIE?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/15/2001 1:55:46 PM #
Is there a way to purchase the new clie and have it work in English sooner than the end of the year? By its description, this is definitley the next palm i want. I am guessing sony, which pays palm to use it OS, made a deal with them not to release the clie in the USA until palm had a chance to have the m505 out for a while.
IF THERE IS A WAY TO PURCHASE THE NEW CLIE EARLIER THAN THE END OF THIS YEAR AND HAVE IT RUN IN ENGLISH PLEASE EMAIL ME.
Email: skinnymatrix@hotamil.com


Audio but not MP3

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 8:50:42 AM #
Propritary, big company's agenda. Sony is becoming what IBM used to be.

The capability of Clie is fantasitic, but it sticks with Memory stick, and Atrac player. You have to get everything from Sony to get all of the benefits. Sounds familiar?

I don't think Palm or Handspring would give us any better hardware. Wait and see what would the other japanese company, TRG, come up with. TRG is much smaller, so, I hope, it would not have such a stupid agenda.

RE: Audio but not MP3
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 1:42:54 PM #
This may be a dumb question, but I (probably like many others) have never used ATRAC3. Does the conversion from MP3 leave an MP3 formated copy on your drive, or would one have to COPY the MP3 first to have both an MP3 and ATRAC3 version of the same file on his or her desktop?

Secondly, does anyone know how long the conversion typically takes (obviously some of this depends on the speed of your processor, available memory, etc.) Thanks

RE: Audio but not MP3
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2001 10:29:13 AM #
I believe that ATRAC3 is the encoding/decoding system used with MiniDiscs ... which Sony has great expertise in.

RE: Audio but not MP3
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/17/2001 6:29:30 AM #
ATRAC3 is a audio format used in MDLP.
Format used in normal MD is ATRAC.

Sony taking over the PalmOS market?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 9:31:04 AM #
It seems that Sony wants to own this market, and Palm et al. are letting them do it.
I was anxiously waiting for a m505, depending on price, but this Clie beats the pants
off of that. Of course, it means more waiting, and if the price is too high, they'll be
shooting themselves in the foot. But this is a good looking device with features that
make this function like a *gasp* WinCE device. They're proving that PalmOS does
have the ability to support all the stuff that MS has been saying my Palm can't do.
And they're proving that you can stuff lots of things into a small device, something
the original designers were concerned about. They wanted to keep the device simple
due to weight and size problems. Looks like Sony has solved it.

But what are they doing to the Grafitti area? Way too many soft buttons!

RE: Sony taking over the PalmOS market?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 12:52:49 PM #
All Japanese Palm OS devices carry the extra soft buttons.

RE: Sony taking over the PalmOS market?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/5/2001 3:00:32 AM #
With the intro of New Sony Clie, Palm m505 will a sorrybehind. I'm not going to buy this colored Vx look-a-like until they lower their price.

RE: English Translation & Pricing

Ed @ 3/14/2001 9:44:41 AM #
To the original poster of this comment:

Sorry, I deleted this comment because the extremely long link was throwing off the formatting for this page.

Here it is without the link:


English Traslation of the Sony.co.jp Press Release:
{long link to Babelfish deleted]

Better pictures and visual comparisons to other PDA's:
http://www.mobilenews.ne.jp/news/2001/03/14/clie/01sony.html

Rumoured Japanese Pricing:
US$420

We have a winner folks.


Babelfish is accessible here: http://babelfish.altavista.com/
You can put in the press release's URL and say that you want to translate from Japanese to English.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

WOW!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 9:54:40 AM #
I've been a Handspring advocate ever since I received my VDx when it was first released. I was actually considering the Prism, but didn't feel that the color screen justified the high price tag. I felt the device should add more features for the dollar. But here comes the new Clie' -- this is the Palm OS device I think a lot of us have been waiting for. I hope it makes it to North America, and soon!

Looks great.....but.....

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 10:14:37 AM #
I just can't get excited about the Audio and copy proof Memory Sticks. Granted, it would be nice to have a nice headphone jack on a Palm device, but to have to transfer my entire MP3 collection to Sony's ATRAC3 format is not appealing at all. I would feel a lot better about putting my money into a flash memory standard like CompactFlash or SD/MMC that I am sure is going to be around for a while. This proprietary stuff stinks. I'll hold out for a Palm m505 and a real portable music player like one that will play those new DataPlay discs - 500MB worth of MP3 on a quarter size $5 disc. Now THAT's cool....

RE: Looks great.....but.....
alex_mathews @ 3/14/2001 12:05:09 PM #
Unfortunately the DataPlay discs are supposed to have copy protection as well. I think along the same way the different memory stick works. You can read more at http://www.dataplay.com/jsp_files/en/industry/contentproviders.jsp.

RE: Looks great.....but.....
mikecane @ 3/14/2001 12:52:23 PM #
ATRAC 3, while proprietary, is possibly better than MP3 as an audio compression algorithm. Check out the many MiniDisc sites on the web for an eye-opening education.

That said, yeah, it'd be a pain to convert MP3s to ATRAC, but would you rather go to Pocket PC? You can also still stay no audio on any other PalmOS device. Or hope there's a SD MP3 player for the new m500s.

I like this new CLIE. It's a winner. Bring it here, Sony!

RE: Looks great.....but.....
Nate @ 3/14/2001 1:12:24 PM #
1) copy protection schemes suck. I recently ran into problems with a memory-gate style "moving" scheme that basically prevented me from accessing my music. I had to re-record. This was on a MusicStore MP3 player (see Streettech.com for review). I hate that kind of copy protection, and in my opinion it too severely restricts the right of the user to play his or her own music. ATRAC doesn't have this problem normally, but ATRAC combined with memorygate could be a problem.

2) dataplay discs have a super-thick copy protection scheme that accesses the disk ID. Expect the same big problems with this scheme. Also, dataplay discs are "write once" and cost way too much. I don't know why people are in love with the dataplay discs, considering the Minidisc holds about 300 megs (up to 320 minutes of music depending on compression, and ATRAC is better than MP3 at preserving the original sound). Minidiscs are pretty damn tiny already, cost $1.70 per disc, and can be rewritten infinitely. I am a huge fan of the minidisc, and have no interest in the dataplay whatsoever. ATRAC is "proprietary" but it is an industry standard, and MD players are made by all sorts of companuies. The only thing missing is an ATRAC player for the desktop, and convenient conversion tools for MP3s. I'm ranting...I guess I can't convince everybody... me and mikecane will just have to swap some MDs and keep to ourselves :)


_________
Syncplicity. Redefining Simple. www.cognitiveroot.com

RE: Looks great.....but.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 2:31:21 PM #
What about a third party writing a MP3 player for the clie? I know that there is not one now, but the demand is so great someone is bound to write it.

It seems petty to put the device down because of what sound format the software supports. The fact that a palm device, with the clie form factor and os3.x, can play music is quite outstanding. I wasn't expecting anything like this until the ARM based Palms came out.

2c

RE: Looks great.....but.....
Nate @ 3/14/2001 4:50:00 PM #
My guess is that the audio is done through a dedicated chip (I'm not a wizard at electronics though) and that as a result, since the decompression happens on the chip not through the software, it would be difficult to write an MP3 player that would run well on the standard Dragonball processor. That's just a guess through. I'm still buying one :)

_________
Syncplicity. Redefining Simple. www.cognitiveroot.com
RE: Looks great.....but.....
mikecane @ 3/15/2001 11:04:58 AM #
I'm not sure if Sony would give developers access to their custom DSP in order to permit MP3 playing on this new CLIE. That's not to say there wouldn't be a fishy way to do it. But it's that DSP that plays the music, not the native Dragonball.

Sorry to say I'm not a fan of MiniDisc. I have friends who are, and I have nothing against MD. But for portable audio, I'll take MP3 with that great Archos Jukebox! (Egad! I just tried to set up a link to them -- and it's gone! Have they gone out of business before I've even had a chance to buy one?!)

Advice?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 10:22:40 AM #
I was planning to purchase the m505 when it came out later this month. What do you guys think I should do?

Eric

RE: Advice?
alex_mathews @ 3/14/2001 12:10:21 PM #
Honestly, just wait and see what's actually released. If it meets your needs then go for it.

RE: Advice?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/28/2001 11:26:26 PM #
Do what the rest of us are doing WAIT. In the long run you won't be sorry.

I bouth the monocrome Clie M300. Nice. But in less than 6 month the color is comming out. Guess what I am going to do!!! BUY IT!!!

So, WAIT. So you don't loose money!!!

RE: Advice?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/5/2001 2:51:21 AM #
Juz hold your breath Eric - don't be too enthusiastic to a Vx color PDA at $449. With this damn price, Palm should come out better than the New sony Clie.

Who at PalmInforcenter writes this stuff?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 10:30:59 AM #
I can't believe the author stated that it wasn't clear how they acheive 320 x 320.

Palm resolution is 160 x 160. If you need to draw a palm app on the new screen you use vertical and horizontal pixel doubling. Instead of a single pixel you use 4.. No science there.

And PalmInfoCenter needs a new server or ISP. It get less readable every day.



RE: Who at PalmInforcenter writes this stuff?
Ed @ 3/14/2001 10:52:35 AM #
In a hard news article like this one, I have to print what I can prove to be correct. While I agree with you pixel doubling this is probably how the new screen resolution is achieved, at this time I can't prove it. I suppose I could make it clear that I was speculating, but until I read something from Sony that says "The device uses pixel doubling' that's just an informed guess.

Also, I want to apologize for the extreme slowness of the site lately. We are working with our hosting company trying to figure out where the bottleneck is.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

RE: Who at PalmInforcenter writes this stuff?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 11:06:42 AM #
Great Site PalmInfoCenter.....Keep up the good work!

RE: Who at PalmInforcenter writes this stuff?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 3:13:19 PM #
Don’t listen to the jackass. He obviously has confidence issues.

It’s a great site and I hope you guys are making some money for your efforts...at least enough to cover your costs. ;)


RE: Who at PalmInforcenter writes this stuff?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/16/2001 4:25:21 PM #
I also have found this site to be extremely informative. Keep up the good work.

Folding Keyboard....

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 11:26:01 AM #
If they come out with a folding keyboard, or an adapter to use an existing folding keyboard, I am all over this.

Only 256 colors?!?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 11:58:55 AM #
Wonder why they didn't up the colors to match the prism? Now you gotta choose, do you want higher resolution or higher color depth.

RE: Only 256 colors?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 12:56:08 PM #
I'd go for higher resolution over more colours. If Sony has built the "font smoothing" into the device, it'll be way easier to read on than the IIIc/Prism etc.

RE: Only 256 colors?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2001 9:52:11 PM #
Where did you read it was only 256 colors?

It's coming here!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 1:44:08 PM #
According to this CNet story

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-5133817.html?tag=mn_hd

----------
The latest model will be on sale around the world by the end of this year, said Shinsaku Inada, a Sony executive in charge of the company's handheld business.

----------

If it actually comes to the US in the $400 range, you won't be able to keep me from buying one.


RE: It's coming here!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2001 12:29:11 PM #
Forget the myth, Sony, NO baloney. This PDA brings home the bacon. Looking forward to seeing one of these either under my XMAS tree or in my Hanukah sock.Thanks for the info!

Does it have OS 4???

SilliconMan @ 3/14/2001 3:08:09 PM #
All this needs is OS 4 and this thing is the Palm with only the good parts of the PocketPC!

Screw the m505, but then again, what will this dream machine cost?

Palming away.....

RE: Does it have OS 4???
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2001 10:35:48 AM #
Most of the Japanese sites state that the new Clie will sport a 3.5.2S OS, and one of them stated that it will use a 3.6S OS.

RE: Does it have OS 4???
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/17/2001 1:12:42 PM #
The specs say that it's got an 8mb flash rom, the clie I have now only has a 2 mb flash rom. This thing will be very very upgradable with a ROM that big!

Mike

Screen resolution

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 4:23:26 PM #
Apparently many built-in applications can utilize the new high resolution (at 320x320).

Japanese companies like Sony tend to mark new features of their products with nice icons. In the features page of the above Japanese site, there are two such icons. One reads: "High Resolution Font Utilized". The other reads: "High Resolution Image Font".


Palm is beautiful 'cos it's simple

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 4:47:35 PM #
I stick to my beloved palm IIIxe. I don't need MP3, color or multimedia, I need a flexible organizer. Palm made it simple, sleek, with long lasting batteries, which made it a success.

If you play video or listen to MP3, soon you'll be searching for some power outlet to recharge the batteries... bullshit.



True but....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2001 12:11:41 PM #
I agree that Palm is a wonderful product but don't be stuck in the past. The Apple IIe
was a great Computer for its time but I don't see you still using one! All technology
starts somewhere, and the Palm III series is that place, don't be afraid to move ahead.

Jornado rumors

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 5:01:37 PM #
Remember rumors of HP thinking about switching to Palm OS?
Might seeing this device affect their decision?
Wonder what PPC hardware makers will think once they see all that this sony can do with the Palm OS?

Palm OS/Popular software+ PPC type hardware???

Maybe HP and others will soon jump ship.


RE: Jornado rumors
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2001 7:44:18 PM #
Nah, I really don't think so because all pocketpc's have better features no matter what. This device dosen't seem to have a built in modem, even though it has an even higher resolution than WinCE devices at 320x320 instead of 320x200. The WinCE devices also have much higher computational power don't forget. They have 150mHz processors compared to the 33mHz processors of some palm devices. Since the price is almost the same as the journada, or even better, the best Casio pocketpc is only about 50 dollars more, I feel better in buying a WinCE device instead.

What is this?

Eston Bond @ 3/14/2001 5:57:07 PM #
Why do people feel the need to slam the PPC when we're not even mentioning them? Yes the Palm is nice, but my iPaq is my Vx replacement until this new Clié is released.

Eston Bond
CEO Pine Tree Software
http://www.pinetreesoftware.net/

RE: What is this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 6:25:22 PM #
What slam?
I didnt say ANYTHING downing the PPC.
I in affect acknowledged hardware SUPRERIORITY for the ppc. If I could run Palm software on your Ipaq, I would buy one myself.

I LIKE the hardware of PPC. I Like Palms software. If those two somehow merge I get excited. Thats all.

Little sensitive my friend.

RE: What is this?
SilliconMan @ 3/14/2001 7:06:20 PM #
Same here man, I said this new Clie mixes the best of both Palm and PocketPC, nothing about the PPC being a joke.

Palming away.....
RE: What is this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 9:33:57 PM #
This news has been out for less than a day and it has received over 60 posts. The Visor Edge has only 30 posts. Do you think the manufactures can determine whats going to draw the hype? What will sell? Color with an excellent screen and some multi media functions. I think a great color screen is the big item!

RE: What is this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2001 3:23:47 PM #
Actually, in addition to the OS, the PPC hardware DOES suck! Let's see, the iPaq is full of dust and other assorted quality control issues (I know, I owned one), the Jornada is way to heavy and slow, and Casio is a brick (albeit a cheap plastic one). If you check out the Brighthand and/or PPC Passion boards, you'll find that an disproportionately large number of posts have to do with problems users are having with their PPC devices. And before you see this as a "flame", remember, we're talking about gadgets here, not people. I think we're allowed to offer opinions as that's one of the things these boards are for.

RE: What is this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2001 4:32:40 PM #
Come on. I had to tell poor Ipaq boy SOMETHING to make him feel better. All this talk seemed to be getting him depressed.

And here you are giving the poor guy another dose of reality.

You are mean. Shame on you. :)



Will new M505 get to have 320X320 resolution?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2001 10:34:55 PM #
It is no doubt that the new Clie looks very stunning with its higher resolution screen. I wonder if the new M505 comes with one too??

RE: Will new M505 get to have 320X320 resolution?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2001 4:28:43 AM #
Not so sure. The main advantage of this screen is the smoother fonts really appreciable on japanese ideograms.
I don't think this advantage of an high resolution screen has been seen by (american) palm inc.

oh my god...

choong @ 3/16/2001 6:18:36 AM #
does anyone know when they are going to release the english os version of the new colour sony clie???

it's so god damn cool. shit. i want one now. i was thinking of getting the japanese one and trying to flash the rom and change the os to the engligh one (is that possible)???

RE: oh my god...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/16/2001 9:06:56 AM #
"it's so god damn cool. shit. i want one now. i was thinking of getting the japanese one and trying to flash the rom and change the os to the engligh one (is that possible)???"

Uh, I think you need to know English first...

RE: oh my god...
choong @ 3/16/2001 9:31:01 AM #
huh? i assume you are trying to insult my command of the english language... mmm. why? it was a fairly straightforward and innocent question.

How about a Clie with TV?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/16/2001 11:39:15 PM #
Samsung has a concept TV mobile phone. If Sony could put TV (uhf/vhf)in a subsequent Clie, that would be kewl.

RE: How about a Clie with TV?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/6/2001 12:40:54 PM #
There are plans for a memory stick TV tuner.
See more at:
www.memorystick.org

Mac support?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2001 8:23:48 AM #
No Mac support?

No problem, I'll buy a Palm m505 or a Visor Prism!

Bye, bye, Sony...

RE: Mac support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/21/2001 9:56:46 AM #
No doubt. Aimed toward multimedia folk? ATRAC and Memory Gate? No thanks.

And duh, what do you think we went back to when those stinking Win PCs--with poorly built interfaces --crap out? (Mac OS 9 sucks just slightly less).

Palm OS is the smartest damn OS for its target.

RE: Mac support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/28/2001 8:27:37 PM #
It does have Mac support!

Great Games Ahead On The Clie?

Legible @ 3/28/2001 7:20:31 AM #
Well, after reviewing the specs of the SONY Clie all I can say is that it definitely is a mean machine.

Now wondering out loud is whether someone is going to take advantage of the colour and the greater resolution to write some mean games.

320X320 effectively translate to 128 dpi so really fine details can be seen compared to the Palm's normal 64 dpi or the WinCE's 96 dpi.


RE: Great Games Ahead On The Clie?
SJ @ 4/5/2001 3:36:14 AM #
Hey Legible, what's your take on the state of games in the Palm arena?

Are you a programmer?

If you have a chance, send me an email at simonl@mindspring.com.

I've been think about game concepts for just his type of miniature platform.

And I will be getting that Sony Clie... oh yeah!

SJ



Modem for Sony Clie' , Hope so.

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/31/2001 12:26:21 PM #
Have Sony forgotten the need of a modem you can use at home or travel. Sure everything nowadays revole around wireless, but don't they realize there are a great number of people who would like to be able to have a modem for there PDA. Sony if your listening please develope a modem!!!

Running Apps off the Sony???

sunnyd @ 4/4/2001 1:59:57 PM #
we use our handspring to run all sorts of large medical database type programs off the springboard modules. people w/ the current sony have one heck of a time running stuff off the stick. will the sony's run apps off the memory sticks like the m505 will run apps off the SD cards and like the handspring currently does off the springboard modules? That will be a major factor for many who use their PDA for reference.

First Impressions of N700C By New Owner

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/8/2001 7:25:05 PM #
I posted the following on the newsgroup, but it didn't seem to have propagated..

I reserved the CLIE N700C a couple of weeks ago from the Japanese Sofmap web site, and received the package from my friendly Japanese delivery service on April 7th!

After tearing open the package, I pushed the power button and was pleasantly surprised to see the CLIE power up! Wow, I had expected to at least to have to plug it in. I dug through the package to find the cradle and a power cable. The power cable is incredibly light; I still can't believe how they transformed 100V down to 7.5 in such a small, light plug. You can plug the cable into the back of the (USB) cradle, or you can plug the power cable straight into the CLIE. I plugged it into the cradle and set about to installing the software onto my PC. It was straight forward installing the new Palm Desktop and the OpenMG Jukebox onto my Japanese Windows 98 powered laptop. I copied my old palm programs from my desktop to the laptop, pressed the hotsync button and voila, 10 minutes later, my entire 7 Megs of junk ^h^h^h^h data was copied into my CLIE. Tried a couple of the programs to make sure that they would work, and so far most of it seems to be working.

My older palm is a Palm Pilot Personal fitted with the 8MB of TRG memory. The CLIE is about as thick as the Personal, but is quite a bit narrower than the Personal. For my small hands (4 1/4" tennis grip), the CLIE fits much better than my old Palm. The body is metal as the flip cover uses magnets to hold the cover in place. Very solid construction, I couldn't twist or contort the body; not that I'm trying that hard to break my new Sony!!!. It is also fairly heavy, so folks that are in love with their thinner, lighter Palm Vs probably won't be that thrilled with the CLIE. Personally I can handle the extra weight (it's not like I have to be like Ahnuld to lift it), and as I said before, the thinner body fits better in my hand than does the wider Palm Vs.

The buttons seem to be made from metal as well, and they have a short travel with a solid feel. A nitpick, just above the buttons and just below the grafitti area is a thin metal 'CLIE' nameplate. I would have preferred having larger buttons rather than wasting that area just for a nameplate. In particular, I'm not exactly thrilled about the smallish up/down scroll rocker.

The CLIE seems to recognize my grafitti fairly well. Changing the brightness from low to full doesn't seem to have any effect on grafitti recognition. I don't know about other CLIEs, but mine seems to have a pocket of air feeling with regards to the screen. With my older Palm, it feels like I'm writing on glass, whereas with the CLIE it seems to be writing on a plastic film that has a slight gap between the film and the screen itself. A bit disconcerting, although I don't know whether this will be a problem in the future. Another thing I will have to get used to is the smaller grafitti area due to the thinner body and space lost due to the specialized Japanese silkscreen keys.

I guess I should have talked about the screen first as that is what really took my breath away. I've only seen screenshots of the N700C on the net, and I wasn't really expecting that much since I expected the sales pictures to be doctored up. But the N700C is definately the new standard for color Palm screens. Without a doubt, the high-res applications look gorgeous, but even the normal (low res?) screens look much better than the IIIC or the Prism IMO. The N700C is much brighter than the pathetic 500C; I didn't have a IIIC or a Prism to compare the brightness, I suspect that they are about the same or that the N700C is a tad dimmer. However there is no distracting black matrix in the screen. The letters show up crisp and highly readable. I checked it out briefly outside as it was quite bright today and the screen was dimmer but still very readable. I hope that programmers will utilize the high-res capabilities of the N700C.

Unlike the older 300C/500C, the N700C does not come with a memory stick (MS); at least not the early version that I bought. To be able to play music, one needs a Magic Gate Memory Stick version, which is quite a bit more expensive than the normal Memory Sticks (10,000 yen for a 32MB MSMG as compared to 6,000 yen for a 32MB MS). The 128MB MSMG are supposed to be available around the end of this month. I converted a couple of my taiko wave files with the OpenMG Jukebox software. It's pretty straight forward. You can convert at 66/105/132 kbps. It took about 4 minutes to convert and download a 10 minute wave file. I converted at 105 and 66 kbps; it didn't seem to affect the conversion time. Both 105 and 66 kbps sounded good enough for me, but I doubt that taiko drumming taxes the conversion process much. I've read that it takes quite a bit longer to convert MP3 files, but I generally would work with a WAVE or a CD file rather than messing with MP3s. Personally even though I think I have tin ears, most MP3 files that I've checked out sound noticably bad. Unfortunately you can not listen to your music with the Palm speaker. You have to use the earphones. The included (cheap) earphones can be plugged directly into the CLIE or into a remote control which plugs into the CLIE. The remote control seems a bit flimsy, especially compared to the fine worksmanship of the body. You can use one end of the remote as a stylus. As compensation for having to use the earphones, you can listen to music as you run other Palm programs. It was pretty neat listening to my taiko drumming as I was hotsyncing new programs to try out :-)

The flip cover is a bit of cheap vinyl that can be flipped underneath the body when you are using the CLIE ... although that thickness is just enough to make my hand uncomfortable using it in that manner. I'll probably do the Trekkie flip move and leave the cover over the body as I use the CLIE.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, even with a 33MHz chip, this CLIE only benchmarks 137% on Benchmark2 (as compared to 204% of a Platinum with a similiar chip). Afterburner 3.0t only allows overclocking up to 37MHz ... which only nudged Benchmark2 to 140%. In actual use, compute intensive programs such as Tide Tool whiz along on this CLIE. Switching programs via LDA, ButtonOnHack, (ie alternative launchers) is also a snap. About the only noticable (and bothersome) delay is when I switch to the default launcher from a program.

While I've figured out how to run MSAutoRun, it still doesn't make much sense to me the way that it is implemented. I can't get MSMount to work either :-(

Well that's enough rambling for now. I'll probably come up with some more comments as I check out the capabilities. So far, it looks like a nice little unit. A bit expensive, but a drop dead gorgeous screen.

fujima@softhome.net

RE: First Impressions of N700C By New Owner
mikecane @ 4/9/2001 3:19:45 PM #
Er, not to make you forgo Palm InfoCenter, but a hotbed of CLIE users is over at the Sony CLIE message board at http://www.palmblvd.com -- you can get lots of help from current CLIE owners (MS Autorun is a dog, BTW, and we'd like to see if the superior MSMount will run on the new CLIE!). So please come over and tell us of your adventures!

RE: First Impressions of N700C By New Owner
Pal Mac @ 4/13/2001 3:23:28 PM #
Hi,

I am surprised to see a person who is really enjoying Japanese version of Palm OS device in outside our country. Thanks for your patience.

I think you need more information about PEG-N700C in English language from who knows Palm OS culture, please try the following link and hopefully please drop some comments to make this site more useful for you all.

http://pal-mac.com/sonipa2E.html

Test Drive - Great Display

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/16/2001 8:37:59 AM #
Played with one for a few minutes in Akihabara. The screen is excellent. I've got a IIIc, but there is no comparison. The fonts are extremely crisp. Went through all the settings, but it doesn't appear like it can be switched to English mode.

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