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Handheld Shell for Linux Module
hell yes; linux!, Bring on the BE
On the other hand; BEos could make a incredible handheld too. They have ATTRACTIVE INTERFACES down to an art. palmOS is fast and functional; but it could look so much better, with little to no performance cost.
I think if everyone gives the handheld OS a shot; and we have an enviroment which supports swapping our OS like candy, we could all prove the best for it. Maybe there should be a directive established to standardise the way these different OS's store there databases. That would allow us to go from OS to OS without the headaches we have as PC users.
What might be better still would be to make thin linux machine on a springboard. Give it a hardrrive cable. Give it a network card. and a power supply. make a tiny WEB SERVER. or File Server! and plug it into a visor to control it. Who says a springboard is supposed to be a slave to a visor; why not make the visor a slave to the springboard.
RE: hell yes; linux!, Bring on the BE
Palm bought BE for that very reason.
I think it's a great idea
I'd buy it tomorrow
Linux on Palm... why?
RE: Linux on Palm... why?
this means either, a) it has a intelligent palm like gui built on top of it's kernel and has all the palm like data entry tools coded in the same smart way they are in palmOS (and a version of emacs would be incredible), or b) it is a springboard module i plug in for shits and giggles. It wouldn't even need to b that useful; just something for us geeks to play with. I for ome would rather hack around in linux then play a game :-)
RE: Linux on Palm... why?
Benifit in a few years? Huge...
As the article points out, the palm os is great for what it does,
but only runs on certain limited hardware.
Linux can run on so many different cpu's, and anyone can adapt it for their own hardware.
Also, the linux kernel is such that you can make it as big or small as you want, depending on how much functionality you need.
I doubt you would run X on such a beast, at least right now, but it could be made quite useful with another small windowing system.
Also, I assume this would be sold as a data access unit or PPC with networking of some sort, along side of their orginizer Palm OS line.
RE: Linux on Palm... why?
RE: Linux on Palm... why?
command line interfaces for Linux that we often mistake them from the OS itself. X can be
replaced with a Palm OS-style interface, and the Plug-n-Play installation of the
Springboard makes it a very attractive option.
We need to reserve at least some skepticism for Handspring's licensing agreement with
Palm, especially since the company is so cagey on discussing the exact terms of the
agreement. Hypothetically, at least, Palm could withdraw its license overnight if
Handspring doesn't reciprocate by licensing Springboard technology to Palm (and
Handspring says that they currently have no plans to do so). Palm is already playing
the "OS card" by announcing a new upgrade via flash only, underscoring the Visor's lack
of flash upgradability. However well Handspring does with the Visor, it's still in a very
vulnerable position by licensing the soul of its product from a (potential) competitor.
Since Linux is covered under the terms of GNU's General Public License, anyone can modify
Linux for the Palm, get the source code, and have absolutely no ability to restrict others
from it -- which is more than can be said for the Palm OS, MacOS, BeOS, OS/2, Windows
or any other propriety operating system. This is not merely an academic point. Remember
the Newton?
RE: Linux on Palm... why?
OS's not that important
At the moment, Palm OS devices are the best on the market: the OS is the fastest and most efficient, but the applications are streamlined, easy to use and well designed. It targets exactly what the vast majority of users want, in a simple, no-brainer format.
Where Windows CE has fallen down is that it doesn't recognise this, and tries to duplicate a PC. This is actually a good idea from a marketer's point of view, but lousy for the user.
EPOC is little more efficient, and has very powerful apps. One of its key advantages, especially to the mobile phone companies that have gotten into bed with Symbian, is that it is modular. These companies realise that the user interface is all the user will care about, and are happy to let someone else (Psion) take care of the backend.
I can see the how some people would get excited over having Linux on a Palm system, but I fail to really see the point. If you put the full complexity of a PC-targetted app onto a Palm form factor, you get a mess.
If you just want simple programs, why redesign the wheel?
RE: OS's not that important
Because sometimes the wheel falls off!
But what about plug and play SpringBoard?
So it looks like Handspring is stuck with Palm OS and things that emulate it for the forseeable future.
RE: But what about plug and play SpringBoard?
First, lets be able to hotsync on Linux ..
Further, linux support for USB (which is what the Visor cradle uses) is non-existent. Therefore to be able to hotsync on linux would require a new kernel with the Visor specifically in mind.
Lets prioritize first!
-Yursil
RE: First, lets be able to hotsync on Linux ..
RE: First, lets be able to hotsync on Linux ..
Also, Alan Cox has said thay 2.4 should be out as early as November.
Check out this link for more info on that:
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/1999/40/ns-10500.html
AdamL.
http://sprawl.net" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/1999/40/ns-10500.html
AdamL.
http://sprawl.net
RE: First, lets be able to hotsync on Linux ..
RE: New OS?
on a handspring :-)
Linux On Visor
Linux on a Visor
RE: Linux on a Visor
Please send this to me mailto:abegglen@gmx.ch
Linux on a Visor
What does Linux bring to the table? Certainly not a large PDA application base or PDA-scale efficiency. Keep it clean and simple!
RE: Linux on a Visor
The answer: The power to get done anything that
people seem fit to do.
This is unlike Palm OS and other handheld OSes,
which have limited number of ports and HW platforms,
and need licences, which is the first and final stop
sign for free people who want to development for
themselves and for the common good.
Jan
Linux on Visor
Alt OS on Palm means no extensibiliy!
RE: Alt OS on Palm means no extensibiliy!
As for not being able to use a Springboard in the OS-occupied slot... there was a rumor that someone wanted to create a "Y" connector so that two SBoards could be dropped into the one slot. I don't know if that is technically possible, but it sure would make for a strange-looking Visor! mc (mikecane@email.com)
Linux on Visor?
so far, i think the PalmOS-powered devices are great. i went and bought a IIIx before i knew that Handspring even existed. had i known, i would have waited for the Visor and ordered one of THOSE.... hmmmm....
i'm impressed with what i've heard about the Visor so far, and i've been recommending it to everyone i know.
Linux on a Visor... Maybe.
to have linux on a device; if it is only to the same
thing palmOs is already doing, it is probably not
worth it; PalmOS is very well designed, usabilitywise.
If, on the other hand, you want linux to be able to run
all kinds of linux software (which I do), then you really
need to address the need for a keyboard of some kind,
working with many applications simply demand a quicker
way to enter data than handwriting can accomplish (and
I do want to use a real shell, which is a pain with hand-
writing). Give me a way to connect a one-hand keyboarsd
and I'll be happy.
RE: Linux on a Visor... Maybe.
The cradle has an interface for any ps/2 style keyboard, and your palm obviously sits in the cradle.
check it out at:
http://www.pfuca.com/products/hhkb/hhcindex.html
--Cicatrix" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.pfuca.com/products/hhkb/hhcindex.html
--Cicatrix
BeOS makes more sense!
I would by a Linux Visor in a second
Linux.
We need a better platform for linux
Palm does not seem ready to support this nor are they letting us know this is at the top of their agenda.
A linux device based on Compaq's arm device with NanoGUI ( http://www.linuxhacker.org/nanogui/" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.linuxhacker.org/nanogui/ ), gtk, and a stripped down mozilla (supposedly the rendering engine can fit on a floppy) would be a very powerful little machine with LOTS of potential.
CE's shortfalls can really be traced to three main factors.
One- a handheld display does not have enough real estate to present a windowing gui. In other words one app at a time with only one document at a time visible.
Two-
Three- a. standard linux/mac/be/ rhetoricians aside I and I suspect many others find the start menu repellent as it brings up all kinds of the instability associations most people have with their windows desktops. I can't be rebooting my handheld while I have a client on the phone, whether CE is stable or not I do have that fear when I see the start menu.
b. The desktop connectivity portion of the WinCE device is probably one of the most attrocious example of bad MS software! They have apparently fixed most of the issues with 3.0 but that was released only last month.
RE: We need a better platform for linux
Linux on a Visor???
PalmOS devices have been so wildly popular. Why
have the Pilots time and time again, been able
to outsell and outdo the hordes of WinCE machines
out there? Definitely not because of any hardware
advantages. Then if not the hardware, perhaps the
OS? So what's so special about the PalmOS. It's
got great stability, it's fast, and very user friendly.
Why? It's simple. Build an OS from the ground up,
the less you functionalize it, the less chances you
have to screw it up. So WHY OH WHY do we want Linux
on a Palm-size device? Because we can??? Don't get
me wrong -- I love Linux. I use it every day at home.
But the one thing I'm getting very very tired of is
now that the Linux advocacy drones have inundated us so
well, they're relying on us ignorantly using Linux
as a buzzword meaning the Jesus Christ of all operating
systems. Linux on my digital watch? Sure! It's bound
to tell time better than my existing one! Linux on my
toaster? Hell why not! I could program it to burn
a penguin into my toast! Linux is even a goddamn media
darling, yet I'd wager that 0.001% of people that have
reported on the superiority of Linux have yet to actually
install it. Linux is a good operating system for a
multi-user, networked, and yes, even a desktop environment.
Why the fuck do you need to log into your PDA!!!????
How the hell are you going to take advantage of Linux
on a device that's primarily marketed as an organizer?
What, you mean not everybody gets the urge to hand-
stroke and compile code on their daily commute! No!!!
Palms were successful because they built the OS from
the ground up to cater to special portable needs on
cost-effective hardware; (i.e you don't NEED 133mhz and
a 65k color TFT screen to take a number or memo)
Successful next generation PDA's will be so because they
improve upon the needs of portable users in the same
manner.
RE: Linux on a Visor???
openness to developers who want to write code
for the platform. If a Springboard module were made
that allowed Visors to run Linux, just think of
the developer community that would ensue it.
Choice is always a good thing for the consumer.
I've seen Linux running on an Itsy, and its a
beautiful thing.
RE: Linux on a Visor???
could really perform. I CAN see a souped-up CE-equivalent
machine running Linux. Wait...what am I saying? It IS being
done: http://www.linuxce.org
The" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.linuxce.org
The question still remains, WHY would you want Linux on a
Palm PC? Let's just consider the user-interface.
No keyboard.
Unless a keyboard device (like the GoType) is marketed,
you'll be calligraphizing (or grafiti'ing or whatever the hell
they'll call it all) all your shell scripts.
No standard GUI.
X is old, and I think M$ has effectively proven the whole
'windowing' UI is useless on a PalmPC anyways. What to
do? A million routes to take here, and we'll probably run
into another KDE/Gnome-type GUI war. Fun.
Wasted functionality.
You have Linux on your Visor. Now you have one of the most
stable secure networking operating systems on a device
that's not on a network and only has one user. Yeah you
could kick it into single-user mode, but...oh hey remind me
why we're putting Linux on a PDA again?
Itsy.
Compaq labs will probably never release Itsy, as it's an
experimental project covering PDA architecture,
power-consumption and user interface, among other things.
In other words, 99% of the population isn't really that
interested.
RE: Linux on a Visor???
Because it's fun! :) It also would create a base
of code that belongs to the community.
You would need a specialized version of Linux to
run on a PalmPC. You have pointed out a few of
the problems that will be encountered with a Linux
port. Fortunately, there are a lot of people
interested in helping out.
http://www.linuxhacker.org/nanogui/>NanoGUI
is" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.linuxhacker.org/nanogui/>NanoGUI
is a tiny X server. Hopefully, there will be a good
UI built on top of it. I have seen code in GNOME
that takes care of smaller displays.
Why are we putting Linux on a PDA again?
Because hackers want to play with code and push
the hardware to its limits. They want freedom,
they want choice. Maybe they'll come up with
something that the larger population IS interested
in.
Why not EPOC?
Surely, that would make a lot more sense than taking any desktop OS (no matter how good) and mold it into something more Palm-friendly. I love Linux as much as the next geek but I'm not going to advocate it to run on the Palm if their are better alternatives out there that already have the support of a community of developers who in many ways already resemble Linux developers. I'd rather see a convergence of technology than a reinvention of the wheel.
RE: Why not EPOC?
RE: Why not EPOC?
I think that Psions and Palm have each found their niche and are wisely avoiding treading on each others toes. I have a Psion 5mx and I'm intending to order a Visor as soon as the madness quietens. I see no conflict in having both.
IMHO the cross-licensing of technology between Symbian and Palm can be no bad thing. I'm glad to see that each has recognized the others strengths (Symbian's advanced OS and Palm's applications) and are working towards them to hopefully create even better products.
With a little luck this is one marketplace that Microsoft will not dominate with sub-standard products.
Linux On Handspring Visor
for the handheld form factor by a very energetic
community of creative people worldwide. This means that
every Intel PC (RedHat and others have done nice ports
of Linux to the Intel platform) potentially becomes
a development system for Visor/Dragonball products.
And it lays the groundwork for future products in the
same form factor with other processor architectures.
The possibilities are no longer limited to simply
evolutionary directions. I can envision myself buying
new products without grumbling because they are
actually exciting. I might actually WANT to wear one
of these things. Where is Kansas on this product
roadmap!!!
Rather See BeOS on a Visor
Why not have an attractive OS on it, with no legacy baggage, and native support for things like antialiasing, a responsive and stable GUI, multimedia etc.
Basically, if they were available with BeOS on them, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I don't know if I want to have to configure mine before I can use it...
RE: Rather See BeOS on a Visor
Besides, what is the *big* deal with BeOS? Why go with an OS that has no future? When was the last time you saw a major manufacturer ship a computer with BeOS on it?
DOS
Its the only way forward
RE: DOS
alternate OS
I'm not aware of the benefits of putting linux on a handheld. In the desktop realm, linux means stability, versatility, and power. But in the handheld realm, PalmOS has shown that it gives users those things as well.
Maybe linux can offer some better networking features right off the bat, or perhaps something else. But you'd think it would be easier (and less expensive, which is the real buzz-phrase, no?) to port the relevant technology, instead of the whole OS, from linux to palm.
Unless there is some hands-down improvement over operation that linux can offer, I don't see a reason to port it. Sure, it'd be a neat project and I wouldn't mind seeing a handheld linux myself, but the advantages it would have over palm, if any, would pale in comparison to the advantages it has over windows.
Linux on Visor
Linux & Visor
Linux on Handspring Visor
sake of it. However, if using Linux provides benefits
such as extended functionality, increased performance
and better security, then I all for it.
cy4
Linux on Visor
Maybe then we could get some decent scheduler software for Linux
and I'd never have to use the 'other' OS again!
PDA OS
A more appropriate OS would be the BeOS. Be has a far more advanced interface as well as better plug and play, synchronization and power management capabilities. Its nature would also allow it to be highly customized to the needs of an advanced PDAOS.
Be is also a dynamically advance OS for media application and presentation. I believe these capabilities will become critical to the core of future PDAOS’s as downloadable music and streaming video become more advanced in technology and more prevalent in the common vernacular.
But then again, what the hell do I know.
Will
Linux on Visor
be the reason to buy it.
Visor OS
Of course, I don't know how much multimedia I'll be using on a tiny, AA-powered (what DOES it use anyways?) device and palm-sized display.
Now I like DOS as much as the next geek, and I miss the C64, and I've even gotten RedHat running once or twice, but I think I'll just stick with Be.
Linux on a Visor
I'm buying a Visor to replace the yellow notepads that I go through every week trying to keep up with my over-booked life. I don't need another Linux machine to do this. I can't imagine putting up with the pain of trying to write Perl programs with a stylus. I'm really unclear what Linux could do for me on a handheld device.
Just so this is not misunderstood as an anti-Linux post, I should mention that I have Linux installed on two machines in my office, 4 machines in my server room, one at home, and 3 in my test lab. And my web site runs on a colocated machine somewhere running Linux. I'm a big fan of Linux. I'm also a big fan of using the right too for the job, and this is not it. The Palm OS was developed in order to perform particular tasks. Linux was developed to fill a very different role, and it does not look anything like the role that the Visir is about.
Yes, it would be very cool to run a web site off of a visor. Definately something to put on your resume. But there's very little practical value to that.
Linux on Visor
I have been (and still are) awaiting the introduction
of the Visor here in Europe(Sweden). They are not
available here for purchase just yet, sometime in the
first quarter of next year I think.
Anyway, compared to Palm OS on a Palm Pilot, Linux on
a Visor with it´s plugin modules yields seemingly
endless possibilities for soft- and hard-ware
applications, and hopefully better compatibility with
other Linux gadgets, computers and stuff.
I will await the Visor and Linux on the same in the
not-too-distant future.
/Anders
e-mail: andersn@isy.liu.se
Visor. Sound Great!
Lets get with it Visor
Linux on visor
Linux works on PDA's
Linux" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.calcaria.net/
Linux is very adaptable. What we need to see is Handspring make detailed technical information on the Visor architechure available to the Linux community. That's what Psion has done for calcaria. Check out the screenshot! 8^)
RE: Linux works on PDA's
whoops," CLASS=NEWS>http://www.calcaria.net
whoops, the url bled over...
Check out some work for Linux on PalmPilot:
http://www.uclinux.org" CLASS=NEWS>http://www.uclinux.org
visor and linux
linux on a Visor. I am using W98 and so badly
what linux. I think they would make a great
pair.
visor
**runs over his visor multiple times and wishes he bought the IIIx**
ok so.....
I like the idea...
RE: I like the idea...
They could sell the springboard for about $50-70 that would run a version of BeIA that could be used to sync to BeOS.
Life would be good.
Linux for Visor...
But will there ever be UNIX?
=)
Linux on Visor
a Visor. I presently have Linux at home on my server
and on my laptop. Linux on a Visor would be a triple play.
RE: Linux on Visor
unconventional (and almost useless)
Palm's are definitely not restricted to the Palm OS (as the flashable upgrades can demonstrate), and wasting the Springboard slot for another OS is almost LUDICROUS, in my mind. What can I do then????? Palm is not restricting their efforts on just the OS, as their development in Symbian (Palm on EPOC in Nokia phone) has proved. This is not a silly waste to me yet, but to say Visor has the advantage because of a really slow developing platform (BS Springboard slot) is plain DUMB!
Linux is availible on a palm
Lynix on the Visor
Replacement Face for Visor?
Hello ... I'm getting tired of the Blue face (top, colored half) on my Visor ... do you guys know where I can get others?
Thanks!
-Christian
christian@wnrg.com
visor alternate os
The point?
Fine, I'm a visor deluxe owner and have been for some time and seeing this I just *had* to say something! This is pure idiocy!
Linux for the Visor? BeOS for the Visor? EPOC for the Visor? MacOS for the Visor? These are credible ideas?
The PalmOS was chosen for the Visor for a reason. Its fast, small and effective. I've never had a problem with the interface or performence or anything really. The stability of PalmOS is great. The only time I've had it crash is from bad programming in 3rd party applications (unlike some of the afformentioned OSes!). Now I pose the question... why put an OS on a device if the one there is already perfectly suited for the job? It's even custom made! If you remember right, the PalmOS version on the Visor was custom made to suit the Visor to a T!
THERE IS NO POINT TO HAVING ANY OPERATING SYSTEM OTHER THAN PALMOS ON THE VISOR OTHER THAN HAVING IT FOR PURE NOVELTY!!!
So people, please get some sense and don't post all these "We could make a mini web server" (THAT'S WHAT PCs AND SERVERS ARE FOR!!!) or "Linux performance on a palm device" posts without really standing back and looking at the full picture, please. They just give me (and I'm sure many other people) a headache
Motorolla Dragon Ball Processors RE: The point?
Lineo Sells it <https://www.lineo.com/>
here is what it is <https://www.lineo.com/products/uclinux/index.html>
and here is a module that uses the same processor with the addition of an ethernet controller
<https://www.lineo.com/products/ucsimm/index.html>
White paper information:
<https://www.lineo.com/products/uclinux/white_paper.html>
Data sheet information:
<https://www.lineo.com/products/uclinux/datasheet.pdf>
Quick Blurb from Lineo what it is:
"uClinux™ is a powerful Linux based operating system for embedded microcontroller systems and thin clients, providing the embedded systems engineer a stable, portable, and scalable operating system with full TCP/IP stack.
What's included for free is lib C and source code for uClinux kernal version is 2.0.38 linux wise.
Installation notes:
<http://www.uclinux.org/get_started/go-source.html>
plenty of information available as far as I can tell.
Not everyone has to run linux, but some people enjoy these things.
No use spoiling other peoples fun I always say plenty of rooom for everyone.
RE: The point?
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Linux on Handspring
that the idea of having linux on a handspring is a wonderful idea.
I am a hardcore Linux user, and PalmOS is great, but Linux
is even BETTER. Good luck to whoever might be producing
that module, and make sure to make it RIGHT.
Thanks