Comments on: Palm m505 Review Part I

Here it is, the review I've been wanting to write since sometime last Fall. I got an m505 from Office Depot about noon today and I've been fiddling with it ever since. The result is the review you are about to read.
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Palm case

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 8:00:36 PM #
there is a slim case that keeps FALLING OUT of the m505. it has slots for the expansion cards. Its made by palm it cost 29.99

I returned it because it falls out. so does the flip case that came with it.

I will try to insert it harder to see if it stays (the flip case) put. Then I will try the same thing with the leather SLIM case by Palm (I guess I have to buy it again if it works well with the flip cover that came with the palm)

I too am beggining to get used to it. after 8 hours, I got mine at 10:30 am this morning!

RE: Palm case
Ed @ 5/2/2001 8:08:08 PM #
If your flip case keeps sliding out and a few millimeters of the stylus-thingy show above the top, then it isn't inserted as far as it can be. Shove on it harder and it will eventually be flush with the top. It won't fall out then.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: Palm case
onyx @ 5/2/2001 8:59:25 PM #
thanks, i was having the same problem with the flip case and had to push it in all the way to make it flush. All in all a really good palm. Now i can stop drooling all over the dang place!

palm is where it @
RE: Palm case
vgz @ 5/2/2001 9:09:18 PM #
I would like to see Parallel Design's Personality Pack for the m50x series. It looks like a great product for the V/Vx and they told me they were working on one for the m50x series when I sent them an e-mail. Check them out at paralleldesign.com. Maybe the m50x model will hold SD/MMC cards somehow.

Matt
RE: Palm case
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:13:58 AM #
Hi Palm users, this is morningstar1844@hotmail.com. I felt the same way about the leather flip case with space for 4 SD or MMC cards. but the trick was to almost jam it on and it works. After playing with my Palm M505 for several hours (mine was fully charged when I opened the shrink wrap, was very surprise. I initial impression of the screen was ok, but I consider it close to great. I like the backlit portion of the Palm for writing graffiti. It is super in a dark car or on an airplane trip. I think we are all winners. I didn't have any games installed to try out the color. Tomorrow I will try "Scud Attack" and try to report on it. I am entirely happy with the screen now. PC World did not really do a review that was correct and unbias. Thanks again to Ed Hardy!

RE: Palm case
mikecane @ 5/3/2001 9:12:30 AM #
I'd like to see Parallel Designs do their flip lids for the m5xx series too. They have a gret product there!

RE: Palm case
mikefoley @ 5/3/2001 11:04:29 AM #
I emailed the guys at paralleldesign.com and
they are working on a something for the m50x.
I have the flip cover for my Palm V. I'm waiting
for the m505 to show up in a store in the greater
Boston area (we don't have Office Despot anymore).


mike

RE: Palm case
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 8:23:10 AM #
All you have to do is secure the tab at the top of the case into the slot of the palm, make sure its all the way in with no potruding edges. It should work.

I returned a palm that had this problem, the palm I exchanged it for, the slot was tighter therefore it was not so noticeble that the case fell out if not secured properly.

The same thing happend with the stylus, its very tight, on the exchanged model it was less tighter, and with wear and tear from pulling it in and out, it has become less tighter and has more functionability

RE: Palm case
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 5:20:20 PM #
Will the LV case used for the Vx fit with the m505?

RE: Palm case
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 1:49:30 AM #
Because palm made their left channel slot thinner, I can't use my hard case. I seem to have a tendency to let my palm fall out of my breast pocket when leaning over. The hardcase has saved my palm numerous times. I hope they come out with another version of the hard case for the m5xx series.

RE: Palm case
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:51:39 PM #
What a nice Palm, but isn't it a starter palm?
It's not the best unit out there, but a nice starter, thats for sure.

I.M. Anonymous

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 8:09:53 PM #
OK, I won't be upgrading from my Vx...

a) Who cares if the screen looks great in sunlight.. I use my Palm primarily indoors. If I have to run the "sidelight" all the time, the battery is going to run to zero in no time. Plus, what happens when the sidelight burns out from all that use?

b) I can't run programs directly off the external card? What's the point, then? If I'm using close to 8MB of RAM already, that means I gain nothing by having an external card that contains, say, a reference medical book -- because the Palm STILL won't have enough RAM left to load the program. I thought the whole point was to be able to run programs DIRECTLY off these external cards.



RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 8:13:51 PM #
I don't think you're seeing the larger picture.

If you can offload your large databases to the SD card, your Palm shouldn't be anywhere near
8mb full.

If you can offload your Palm applications to the SD card, your Palm should always have enough
room for the applications to be automatically copied over.


RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 8:20:13 PM #
Durr... wouldn't want to do something silly and oh say... move some of the applications to the SD card now, would we? That would be ridiculous, and it would free up memory, which is absolutely absurd, sweet mother of Larry!

Oh, and if Palm was smart at all, the sidelight is of some sort of LED variety (or anything similar) which means it CAN'T burn out... if they weren't smart, then poop on them.

RE: Battery Life
Ed @ 5/2/2001 8:27:40 PM #
> If I have to run the "sidelight" all the time, the
> battery is going to run to zero in no time.

I've gotten about 5.5 hours of use out of 66% of a battery charge. Looks like the charge will last at least 8 or 9 straight hours.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

m505 Battery Life
Ed @ 5/2/2001 10:07:30 PM #
I just got my first "Your battery is running low" message. A single charge lasted seven hours. It will almost certainly be longer on a day when I'm not HotSyncing five or six times. And having to HotSync by IR has to be draining it, too. Therefore, I feel safe concluding that seven hours is the absolute least amount of time a charge will last. That's with the sidelight on the entire time.

Anyone else perform this type of experiment?

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

RE: m505 battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:27:34 PM #
I am somewhat disappointed with this unit,
both screen and battery wise. Using launcher
III, I can see my battery life drop by
a percentage, almost minute by minute.
(Of course I am running sidelight all the
time as I can't see anything without
having that turned on.)

I will give it a few days before returning
it, the question is whether to hold
on to my Visor for another year, or
get the m500.



RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:27:40 PM #
I have 6 MB of important data (i.e. *patient* related data) on my Palm Vx. Not games. Not frivolous crap that can be "backed up" on an external card. Many of the useful medical apps (like mini reference manuals, etc) require 2-3 additional MB of RAM which my device just doesn't have available. Get the picture? What we need is a Palm upgrade that either supports additional, REAL memory.. or allows you to simply pop an external card on that contains a textbook, etc. and RUN THE PROGRAM OFF THE CARD.


RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:34:44 PM #
First, your data is no more important than anyone else's data.

If your concern is with the way the m500/m505 manages SD memory, I suggest
you call the manufacturers of the applications you find important to see when
these applications will become SD aware (so you can offload your large
databases to SD), or are completely offloaded to SD (ie. a PDR on SD, etc.).

If nobody complains to the manufacturer, the manufacturer really has no reason
to do anything on SD media. You have to have consumer interest... make the
call, and encourage your colleagues to do the same.

If your application is SD aware, you can have your large databases existing
on SD while the application (typically small) on the Palm. I have yet to see
an actual Palm _application_ that is more than 1mb. I have seen plenty of
applications that have huge databases (like AvantGo). I would have serious
concerns if the _applications_ you use are 3-4mb large.


16 MB RAM upgrades
PFloyd @ 5/2/2001 11:37:00 PM #
I suspect you'll be able to get third party RAM upgrades before long.

RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 11:48:26 PM #
You still don't get it, do you?
The whole point of my post was that it's futile to upgrade to a device that offers inferior color screen quality & does not deliver on the promise of being able to run programs from an external drive. All this latest Palm does is let you *upload* programs that are archived on mini disks. If *you* want to pay $500 for this privilege, be my guest. I think it's a step in the right direction -- but at least acknowledge that this is NOT where we need to wind up.. especially for those of us who wish to be able to access textbooks and reference materials via our Palm devices. It's the Palm itself -- not the external drive/disk -- that's the limitation.

RE: I.M. Anonymous Running programs from the card!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:21:58 AM #
Two developers are currently rewriting or making patches to their programs so you will have free memory.
Lexidrugs of skyscape will have a fix in 4 - 6 weeks with better support of color. Also you will be able to run the program off the SD card or MMC; then you have their 5 minute medical consulatant. There is about 4 megs saved for our general programs.

2nd you have BibleReader from olivetree.com will have a fix in around 2 weeks so then you will have another 1.5 megs of memory available. We will be ok for awhile until the new ARM units arrive.

Happy Palming my friends!

RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 4:28:03 AM #
Ok, ok , your medical data are importants...BUT STOP TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW, and read again all the usefull post:
In the palm there are 2 kind of files : database and application.
The applications are typically small (example of great readers : isilo, iambic reader,tiny sheet etc...), and are "runnable" , they will have to be copied from the SD to the internal RAM BUT , your important and large data (ebooks, dictionnary, etc...) ARE ONLY databases that can be read DIRECTLY WITHOUT COPYING from SD cards, with isilo, iambic reader, etc, if the developpers of these applications have added this functionnalities!....

RE: I.M. Anonymous
EdwardGreen @ 5/3/2001 7:53:34 AM #
You could have a 32Mb SD with a 32Mb database on it. The Reader Application simply needs to use the Palm API which only reads part of the database at one time, rather than loadinging it into "application" or device Ram. The SD is a hard disk.



-
kHiTeDev

RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 8:54:32 AM #
The more I read about the M500/M505 external memory limitations, the more I'm glad that I bought the Sony N700C. With MSMount I can load 8-12 meg or more (readonly) databases on the Memory Stick. I had hoped that OS 4.0 would have supported this transparently, but from the various messages, it appears not ....

RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:03:14 AM #
The databases can be read off the card only if the application can find its member databases. Right now, it doesn't work for any large multi-file reference application without modification. I tried it last night.

RE: I.M. Anonymous
mikecane @ 5/3/2001 9:16:12 AM #
What people are missing the point on, is what if you have a large database that is used for both reference and to *write to*?

I understand that read-only from SD part. It's the *write-to* SD part that I think Palm has missed.

RE: I.M. Anonymous
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 11:47:41 AM #
>>
What people are missing the point on, is what if you have a large database that is used for both reference and to *write to*? I understand that read-only from SD part. It's the *write-to* SD part that I think Palm has missed.
<<

The Palm VFS API fully supports *both* reading and writing to the cards (SD/MMC or CF, the API actually doesn't care). The application must simply be coded to write to the card.

It is interesting that TRG/HandEra's original FFS API for CF cards faced a similiar misconception (and sometimes still does). People think their API is read-only because the AutoCF extension allows only read-only databases, which is not the case. People now think Palm's API only allows read-only access because of the built-in launcher's ability to copy apps off the card and run them means card access is read-only, but it's not. Palm, Sony, and TRG/HandEra's APIs allow reading and writing to the external storage cards they support. The problem is few apps actually take advantage of these OS features.

RE: I.M. Anonymous: About running programs on SD/MMC card
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 11:52:24 PM #
I am from Hong Kong. I have some friends go to the launch of Palm m500/m505. They asked Palm Inc. about running program directly on SD/MMC, they said the program are first copied to RAM, however, it is not the main memory (8 MB) but on another chip, which is 4MB. That is, 2MB ROM, 8MB RAM + 4MB Buffer RAM for SD/MMC.

I was trying to find some evidence on this, however, I cannot. I just trust my friends' report.

My friends forgot to ask what about programs which is larger than 4MB such as dictionary...so it is still unknown.

Sorry for my poor English.

Please post close-up pictures w/ sidelight on

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 8:23:15 PM #
Nice review.

Is there any way you can post pictures of the m505 indoors with the sidelight on?

It would be very much appreciated.

Screen pix of m505 vs. iPaq
dteky @ 5/2/2001 9:23:14 PM #
RE: Please post close-up pictures w/ sidelight on
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:02:16 PM #
Take a look at this picture. Best I've seen.

http://www.brighthand.com/resources/m505/Image005.jpg

RE: Please post close-up pictures w/ sidelight on
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:05:11 PM #

Stylus

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:12:17 PM #
I know this is about the m505 but I just got a m500 and the stylus writes like I'm writing on sandpaper. I used my stylus from my Vx and it writes smoothly. Is this just my stylus on the m500 or has everyone with a m500/m505 had this problem.
Also, I do have USB and I think it syncs much faster than the old serial. Palm finally woke up.

it's new
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:41:54 PM #
the screens are often like thet when they're new. it goes away with time, my 500 was like that when I got it a week ago, and my 505 is like that now.

BTW: for protecting your screen, my trick is overhead transparencies. they work great, just cut them to the right size and stick 'em in the frame (under the lip of the case over the screen). It works as well, if not better, as those expensive write-rights, and it's cheaper, too!

-Pepper

I unscrewed stylus point from my old V and screwed it on the
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:48:55 AM #
the m505 tip. NO MORE SANDPAPER FEEL!

Screen burn on my Palm M505 and VIIx

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:25:01 PM #
I spend more time with my Palm VIIx after I get in bed and turn the bedroom lights off as well as when I wake in the morning. I always use the back light when I'm in bed. So. I ha ve already burned the hell out of my screen. Now since it is not color, it doens't matter to me.
As for the M505, wait until they improve the screen contrast before you buy.

RE: Screen burn on my Palm M505 and VIIx
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:36:25 PM #
Huh?

RE: Screen burn on my Palm M505 and VIIx
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:53:26 PM #
In bed? I'd hate to see what kinky web clipping applications he's got on that thing.

RE: Screen burn on my Palm M505 and VIIx
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:09:31 PM #
Perhaps you should consider doing other things in bed besides diddling (oops, I mean "fiddling") with your Palm. This way, you'll get more life out of your toy and you'll also have a shot at having a life.

RE: Screen burn on my Palm M505 and VIIx
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 2:47:42 PM #
Ha HA!!

RE: Screen burn on my Palm M505 and VIIx
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 3:04:58 PM #
You know, anyone with time enough to write condescending comments on discussion boards like this one probably doesn't have much of a life himself.

Screen brightness

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:33:46 PM #
The Compaq iPaq screen is pretty wimpy w/o the sidelight, too...

RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:37:37 PM #
You're absolutely right. The screen on my new 505 is almost identical to the screen on my iPaq...it's just a matter of getting used to a color reflective screen.

I remember when the first iPaq's were shipping. Everyone had a problem with how dim it looked without the sidelight. But you know what? A few months later, almost everyone agreeed that the iPaq's screen is about the best of any PPC out there...yes, I know how vibrant the indoor viewing of the Casio, Prism, and IIIc is.

Trust me on this...you'll learn to completely love this screen. It is so functional. It almost looks monochrome without the backlight in a lot of cases, but you have the option of showing off those 16-bit color photos in true color when you want.

Only use the sidelight (frontlight) when you need it, and watch how long your new color handheld's battery goes...on and on. The iPaq goes 10-12 hours without the sidelight, easy; and that's with heavy multimedia games and normal use. My bet is that the m505 will go AT LEAST that amount with a mixture of sidelight/no sidelight.

RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 3:15:51 AM #
Your comparison between the iPaq and m505 is flawed. Although both use the same technology, and the iPaq screen is indeed very nice, that is BECAUSE it has a much higher resolution than the m505 screen.


RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:10:14 PM #
No, the comparison is not "flawed". The comparison is made on screens...not resolution. I think most PDA users know the increased resolution the iPaq offers.

In low light situations without the sidelight on, the iPaq has the same dim, almost unreadable, appearance the m505 has in the same situation. In bright light, they both perform great without the sidelight on.

That's the comparison...we're not talking resolution.

RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:53:06 PM #
my friend has an Ipaq, and I showed him my m505 this morning. he drooled (left a nice wet splocsh on my screen). he said he loved my screen and liked the poor resolution more. said it made it look "crisper". I don't find resolution important, personally.

Later,
-Pepper

RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 6:36:47 PM #
What are you talking about?? c'mon

The better the resolution the better the screen, period.

I think that the m505s' screen is adequate, but we will see higher resolution screens within the next few years when technology makes it possible. If it was possible to have the iPaq screen in an m505, without any additional battery drain OMG.

RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 11:44:43 PM #
Yes, what are you talking about? A low resolution screen is better quality than a high resolution screen? TOTALLY unheard of...what a big joke. Then why don't you run your PC at 640 x 480 all the time?

RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 8:11:55 AM #
The people at my office have 21 inch screens and they still use 640x480. They claim that the larger text is easier on their eyes. I personally like 1600x1200 on my 21 inch monitor.

RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 9:20:40 AM #
Are these people in your office sales droids? Anyone using a 21 monitor at 640x480 resolution ... hmmm ... all I can say is they are a perfect waste of skin...

RE: Screen brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 1:33:58 AM #
I own both an ipaq and the 505. To be blunt, as much as I love my 505 (and the fact that the palm platform is just far superior) the ipaq screen in much better. Brighter, more control as to the brightness. The palm screen I'm getting used to but it does not blunt my general disappointment every time I turn it on and have to squint. I'm sure I will come to like it in time, but they need to rethink their screen and improve it on the next go around. I gave up my Palm IIIc for the 505 and I have longed for the sharpness of the unit. But my wife now has it and is in love with the IIIc.

why Palm made the left channel slot smaller

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:32:30 PM #
Plenipotentiary wrote:

>I wish I understood why Palm made the left channel slot smaller than the right. I can't see a reason for this. I feel sorry for all left handed Palm users because this is really going to inconvenience them.<

I read somewhere that the reason is the internal hardware takes up more space, so they were forced to make that channel smaller.If I rememeber were i got that info I'll post the link


RE: why Palm made the left channel slot smaller
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:26:34 PM #
Yes, that's stated right in Palm's official m505 FAQ, I read it as well.


i'm left handed!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:31:08 PM #
and I am not offended at all. I learned to adapt w/ my old palm pro. i find left handed users at more of a convience think about it: less distance to the grafitti area (text) and apps/menu buttons. The clock feature is also closer for us too! and w/ older models the power button was on the lower left side making it much easier to press w/ the fourth finger on your right hand while holding it. on the new models, it's MUCH easier to put the stylus in and hit power at the same time!

Think about it: us left hand-ed-ers are much better off than you like to believe!

-Pepper

RE: why Palm made the left channel slot smaller
Ed @ 5/2/2001 10:37:44 PM #
Thanks, I missed that in the FAQ, obviously. Here's what it says:

> Why are the left side rail and the rail where the
> stylus fits two different sizes?

> An internal component design required that the
> left rail be smaller than the right rail on the
> m500/505 handhelds.

Still kind of vague, though. Maybe Dave Design will take an m505 apart, too, and I'll get to see the internal design for myself.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

I have one too!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:22:43 PM #
After going on the net and drooling all over my keyboard for the past few months, it's finally in the palm of my hand (sorry, that was a bad pun). I agree with most of what Ed says, but I like the screen (i'm used to my IIIc at 25% brightness) although Ed forgot to mention it in pitch black. It is cool when you turn the back light on in a pitch black room, I LOVE how the grafitti area lights up too (it's so techy looking). In the dark, my 505 w/ backlight was brighter then my IIIc (25%-50%). Personally, I found it worth every penny I paid (or dime, or nickle, or dollar or whatever).

ONE ANOTHER NOTE: I also have the m500. I find owning them both quite a privlidge (the 500 was a freebie from palm; I LOVE when they give me free stuff!) since I'm just a poor 13 year old programer (for freeware . . .) I compared them VERY closely and noticed the following differences:

1) the screen . . . duh!!!
2) The size is about 1mm larger on the 505
3) weihgt is a little less on the 500 (but not too noticeable)
4) the buttons- i know they're supposed to be different colors on the different models, but I find the silver on the 505 matches better. and they are the EXACT opposites of each other: black on white writing vs. white on black writing
5) the back. the 505 has black plastic around the accesorie clips (next to the serial #) and the 500 doesn't. The 505's back is metal, not plastic like the 500. The little bumps by the universal connecter are a little smaller (up and down) on the 505 then the 500
6) the universal connector- since the 505 is all metal, the connector is surrounded by black plastic, but the 500 is just flush
7) COLOR OF THE CASE: the 505 is a slightly less silver color then the 500. I like them both equally, they're just different

Later guys,
-Pepper

BTW: the USB is SOOO much quicker then I ever hoped for.

And my opinion: spring for the extra $50 and get color!

RE: I have one too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:31:32 AM #
I agree spend the extra $50 and get the M505. I bet Palm will reduce the price of the M500 very soon. No comparsion to the M505 (I returned the M500 today and have the M505) and it is nifity and techie! Morningstar1844

RE: I have one too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 7:36:10 AM #
How'd you manage to scam a free one?

RE: I have one too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:46:28 PM #
I might be 13, but my parents own a computer store. I'm our PDA expert and we're palm authorized resellers. palm held a seminar in Itasca (IL) a week ago and I went. EVERYBODY who went got a free Vx, and they gave away 3 VIIx and 3 m500 and A TON of accesories. I was lucky and won an m500

-Pepper

RE: I have one too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 6:42:06 PM #
Dude, you are the the luckiest techy teen ever. I'm 16 and I can tell you right now that your scenario is pretty sweet.

Later man.



i know
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:16:56 PM #
yeah, it also helps that i am a girl. for some reason people are more willing to give me stuff!!!

RE: I have one too!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:07:43 PM #
Just wait until you're older.

oh yeah . . .
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:22:20 PM #
i'm just waitin' . . .

Screen Quality Concerns

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 9:32:14 PM #
Unfortunately, your review along with others I have read have confirmed my suspicions of an inadequate quality color screen for indoor conditions, which I use the most. I also hate the black grid between pixels look, which ruins the view. I will wait another month for the Sony Clie, which has the 320 x 320 reflective TFT screen similar in quality to the Compaq Ipaq, which is the best color screen currently out there. The compromise is a higher price for a built in mp3 player which is inadequate for storing any substantial (1 GB+) mp3 files, along with less compatibility, because it uses the propriatary expensive memory sticks vs the sd/mm cards which the m505 uses. I am also suspicious of whether Sony will ever offer future flash rom upgrades like OS 4 or the upcoming bluetooth enabled OS 5.

RE: Screen Quality Concerns
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:15:30 PM #
Also the Sony only uses a 256 color screen vs 65k colors of the m505. (as mentioned in a Palm Infocenter article)


RE: Screen Quality Concerns
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:38:54 PM #
when it comes to the sony the trade of for the palm its worth it. Sony does not upgrade, exchange anything, plus other accesories are few and expensive. think about it....


RE: Screen Quality Concerns
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 2:49:32 PM #
Huh? What are you talking about? If you want to compare the Clie to the m505 please compare to attributes of the units, don't go on a rant and critize the Clie just because you don't like the company.

Sony is a pretty good company, IMHO. They make quality stuff.

The Wall Street Journal has a report on the Clie:

http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html

They also have a report on the m505:

http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20010329.html

Any way you could look at it, the screen of the m505 is causing major concerns.

RE: Screen Quality Concerns
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:00:04 PM #
He wasn't criticizing SONY, he was highlighting an important fact...SONY are very reluctant to exchange units and peripherals are all but non-existant. These are important points to bear in mind as well as the fact that sony uses OS3.5 and not 4.0

The screen seems to be the only decider...its all a matter of personal taste...oh yes, don't worry about the backlight burning out...they have an estimated life of 100,000 hours...thats over 11 years!! Your m505 will be an antique before the light burns out!

RE: Screen Quality Concerns
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 3:15:08 PM #
The M505 display is much less than I expected. It is dim and the contrast is very poor. Even with the sidebar light on I am disappointed. I would be slow to recommend the M505 over the IIIc to most people, especially those wanting to play games such as Simcity,etc...I not satisfied with my new M505's display, but hopefully I can get "used" to it.



RE: Screen Quality Concerns
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 10:26:59 AM #
I don't currently own an m505--just checked out the display model for a while at my local Fry's--but I tend to disagree with the "naysaying" about the screen. Yes, I would agree that the colors appear "muted." But the overall brightness is comparable to the Ipaq, based on what I've seen of it. I think it's a quality display, especially considering its flexibility regarding lighting conditions.

Personally, I'm waiting for the new Sony model for comparison. And I'd like to see how the new HandEra 330 hits me with improved resolution and soft graffiti minus color. I figure that the prospect of spending $350+ merits this kind of patience, research, and comparison.

I would predict that Palm does 2 things between now and June: 1)tweaks the display a bit once they get feedback from early-adopters, and 2)lowers the price on the 505 about the time the new CLIE hits the market. If I'm right, my patience will really pay off.

Problem with my m505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:12:56 PM #
I am frustrated... I love my new m505 but it has one stuck pixel. There is a pixel stuck white looking about 2 centimeters in from the top right corner. I first noticed with the first page of the tips document that comes with the peanut press reader program. You only really notice it if a large area of solid color surrounds the pixel, with text on the screen you never notice it. Frustrating but I am worried the store won't take it back for just a single pixel, and who knows if they have another m505 (and it could be worse.) I love EVERYTHING else, esp. the excellent screen texture and digitizer which is loads better than the horrible state of even the "good" IIIc's.

RE: Problem with my m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:17:42 PM #
Wow, I'd hate to have to deal with stores like that! The local Staples policy is they take it back if you're not happy with it, PERIOD! I had to return one of the early reflective color Compaq Aero's for dust particles and they didn't hassle me at all! As for the digitizer on the IIIc perhaps you've never seen a good one, mine works as well as the 3 other Palm's that I've owned (1000, Professional & IIIe)I guess I should feel fortunate to own a IIIc that works flawlessly; believe it or not, they exist!



contact palm directly
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 10:37:33 PM #
my 500 has a chip in the screen (i told them it came that way . . .) and they're willing to replace it free when you send it in

RE: Problem with my m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:35:41 AM #
Any of the Super Stores will replace anything within the 14 day period. Palm is partially responsible for us returning the M500. If that would have been available first. I would started out with color and would have been completely happy! Morningstar1844 again!

RE: Problem with my m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 7:45:05 AM #
I think I am gonna return my m505 today, I am so sad because it is SO perfect except for the one pixel. I am terrified I will give it up and get another with more problems of a worse variety and by the time I figure it out there won't be any more m505's for sale! Hahaha. Oh well, I love this little unit so I need to get one that doesn't have a stuck pixel...

RE: Problem with my m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:19:47 AM #
I finally exchanged my unit and the new m505 I got is perfect but has some suprising differences. I think I also found a flaw in the OS that arrises after a hard reset on the m505 so check it out in a post further down this page....

why buy m505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 11:02:16 PM #
Can someone tell me why anyone should buy an m505 over a cheaper pocket pc. like the casio e-100 it is only $330 thats more than $100 less than the palm, and it has more memory, the same screen rez, a built in mp3 player, and the ability to play video. I see no reason to purchase the overpriced m505.

RE: why buy m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 11:10:21 PM #
If you are going to get a Pocket PC, get an iPaq. I've never met anyone who had a Casio who much liked it.

RE: why buy m505
phennyphenphen @ 5/2/2001 11:22:28 PM #
The only ipaq's offered are either too expensive ie the 3600 or arent color ie 3100. a correctin to your post - the pocket pcs rez is higher than the m505's

RE: why buy m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 11:27:15 PM #
Basically because you want a small, color organizer like the Palm OS offers. Not a miniature boom-box/video center that happens to have calendar and addressbook functions.

RE: why buy m505
mikecane @ 5/3/2001 9:23:17 AM #
I think Jeff Kirvin's column this week will enlighten you.

See http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column010430.htm

I'd also add:

1) Weight/form factor
(as much as I admire the speed and screen res of the iPaq, I destest its bulk and think the design is garish)

2) Ease of use
(Although PPC 3.0 is better than WinCE 2.0, PPC still has some way to go before making an appointment is as easy to do as with the native Palm DateBook)

As for comparing prices... well, I agree the prices are nuts. Too bad the HandEra will not cost $250, the m500 $300, the m505 $350, and the new Sony N710C $400. Those prices are more realistic, in my opinion.

Where are you guys located? Where can I get one?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 11:08:18 PM #
I've been waiting and drooling over the m505...I live in Arizona...are they out here yet? I haven't heard anything about the 505 being available here. Waiting patiently for your reply......

RE: Where are you guys located? Where can I get one?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 11:21:32 PM #
Take a look at this long discussion. I'll bet it has a comment on where damn near every m505 is in the U.S. of A.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1862&MODE=FLAT

RE: Where are you guys located? Where can I get one?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 3:07:18 AM #
Are you in Tucson, there are an Office Depot there.
I am in Phoenix and there is none around.

RE: Where are you guys located? Where can I get one?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:11:14 AM #
I'm in Tucson, there are three Office Depots here but none of them have the M505. All the Office Depots in Phoenix closed for some reason.

RE: Where are you guys located? Where can I get one?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:37:13 PM #
I have the available for immediate shipment (877)746-7727.
David

RE: Where are you guys located? Where can I get one?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 2:36:58 PM #
Fry's electronics has lots of them (500s and 505s)
No extras yet though

Palm m500/505 Quality Questionable

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/2/2001 11:33:57 PM #
After spending a few days with my new m500, I must say I am not totally impressed yet. Much faster sync with USB support and faster performance with 33 mhz db BUT...I am a little worried about whether the quality has slipped. Although the 500 seems to be correctly assembled, the materials have slipped. Whereas my Palm Vx has an aluminum case front and back, the new 500 only has aluminum on the front. The back is plastic (perfectly matched, but plastic nevertheless. I hope that Palm wasn't trying so hard to make it lighter than the Vx that they compromised on the quality which was one of the things that made the Vx the truly "executive class" Palm device. Although most people would never notice it, I couldn't help but wonder why the front was cold and the back was not.

PalmPowered@aol.com

Dumb Question about Glowhack

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:23:01 AM #
Being a fairly young pup, I only recently came onto the Palm scene. About 4 weeks ago, I decided to get one, and did my homework and chose the m505. Now that I have one (thanks everyone here at Palm Infocenter), and I have configured it (mostly) to my likings, there is one thing that I can't figure out. I have HotSynced the Glowhack.prc onto my Pilot, but I can't find it anywhere to put in the settings I want. How do I do that?

RE: Dumb Question about Glowhack
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:04:52 AM #
That's not so dumb (gee, I could tell some stories...)

You need to load X-master or Hackmaster to run the Glowhack. I think TealPoint also has a hackmaster clone (tealhack?). Check palmgear.com for xmaster.



RE: Dumb Question about Glowhack
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 4:17:07 AM #
Even better: get EVPlugBase 1.1b1 for controlling your hacks.

use EasyView from PalmGear. Thinner, Easier, Better.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:51:20 AM #
set to 00/00

Thanks!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 11:30:18 AM #
Works great.

RE: Dumb Question about Glowhack
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 8:22:53 PM #
If you don't want to use the "hacks" you can download "easyview". It does the same thing, w/o requiring "hackmaster" or "ev..". You can download it at:

www.palmix.itil.com

RE: Dumb Question about Glowhack
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 9:50:29 AM #
Hey, which version of Easyview should I install for an m505?

Palm III (Palm OS ver 3.0, 3.0.1, 3.3)

or

Palm V (Palm OS ver 3.1)

Rhinoskin Case?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:38:04 AM #
Do any of you new 505 owners have a Rhinoskin slider case? I would love to know if my old one will fit, but the company says they don't know.

RE: Rhinoskin Case?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:50:40 AM #
I do.. and it doesn't.. the left channel is too narrow. It will fit in the right channel, but you lose your stylus holder.. also, the case doesn't quite close all the way.. about 1 mm shy.

RE: Rhinoskin Case?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:18:54 AM #
Thanks for the response...but maybe I need to clarify my question. I was talking about the Titanium sliding hard case from Rhinoskin. The case does not have a rail to fit in the unit, you just kind of set the palm inside it. I was just wondering if anybody had one out there and had tried it. I don't want to shell out another hundred bucks for one of those cases if I can help it.

RE: Rhinoskin Case?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:18:31 AM #
In the RhinoSkin official discussion forums, the moderator said that none of the hard cases will fit the 500 or 505.

RE: Rhinoskin Case?
Wilson @ 5/3/2001 12:32:27 PM #
Discussion forums?

Could you please let me know where these are? I would be interested in seeing them.

TIA

RE: Rhinoskin Case?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2001 11:20:55 PM #
Yes, the 505 does fit into a rhinoskin slider case. Note that the fit is not exact. 505 can fall out of the case if you have the unit faced down when the slider cover is open.

Is the screen better that a GameBoy screen ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 3:02:32 AM #
In previous reviews the screen has been compared to a GameBoy screen, is this a fair comparison ?

RE: Is the screen better that a GameBoy screen ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 3:57:18 AM #
Well I just bought an import version of the Gameboy advance and if the palm m505's screen is anything like that then i'm sold. Yes, the Gameboy Advance screen is dim in low lighting but in bright lighting like in the sun the colors are vibrant. And I am too waiting for the Palm m505 here in southern california.

RE: Is the screen better that a GameBoy screen ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 6:07:09 AM #
You cant compare the 505's screen with a gameboy.. the original gameboy color = 160x140 pixels 8 bit.. so a lower quality as the palm 505.. the advance gameboy is:

240x160 resolution

40.8mm x 61.2mm screen size

32,768 possible colors

511 simultaneous colors in character mode; 32,768 simultaneous colors in bitmap mode

Don't compare the two devices.. they are totally not equel...

RE: Is the screen better that a GameBoy screen ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 7:09:49 AM #
All I wanted to know about was a image visibility comparison of the two, Gameboy Color and M505.

Is the M505 brighter than the Gameboy Color in the same lighting conditions ? (Regardless of the 16 or 32 bit color system)


RE: Is the screen better that a GameBoy screen ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 6:02:26 PM #
yes. i've got them both, and put simply: I'd rather play games on my 505 then gameboy! (I love my new palm's screen, those rumors really had me worried for a bit there. go check it out, it's neat)

-Pepper

Palm m505 vs Palm IIIc pics

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:04:41 AM #
The picture in the article shows a m505 next to a IIIe and not a IIIc as the article states. Any palm user can see the difference in the grafitti area. The label also indicates that the palm which the m505 is compared with is a IIIe.

In my opinion, the credibility of your article has dropped a few major notches.

RE: Palm m505 vs Palm IIIc pics
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:59:16 AM #
youre right, it is a IIIe...(thats why its blurred) the 505 has to be compared with a IIImonochrome otherwise the screen will not looked better...I canceled my palm.. Hoped that the bad screen was in the prototype only... now you have 160x160 pixel with poor screen quality.. who wants to pay for that ?? I am going to buy a Ipaq today... high res screen, great colors, and stylish...

RE: Palm m505 vs Palm IIIc pics
drac @ 5/3/2001 7:39:03 AM #
Basing a choice between the iPaq and the m505 based only on the screen is silly.

They are *very* different devices that suit different needs....



"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi

d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados

RE: Palm m505 vs Palm IIIe pics
Ed @ 5/3/2001 8:00:57 AM #
You are correct and I apologize for the slip up. I have changed the article.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

Well done, Ed!

mikecane @ 5/3/2001 9:29:46 AM #
Great review.

But too bad there aren't more pictures!

I'd like to see some 65K pics displayed on the m505.

I'd also like to see you write about moving apps to/from the SD card. That functionality is in the native Launcher (Home, Menu, whatever it is...)

And what does the Card Info app do?!

As appealing as the m505 still seems to me, I am still inclined to hold off buying anything until I can see -- and hold -- the new Sony CLIE N710C.

RE: Well done, Ed!
mikecane @ 5/3/2001 9:32:09 AM #
One other thing: How soon do you think you can wheedle a new m505-compatible PalmPix out of Kodak to add to the review?!

RE: Well done, Ed!
Ed @ 5/3/2001 11:56:01 AM #
Glad you like the review. I'm making a list of all these questions and I'll try to answer them in a followup article next week.

I'm getting a demo PalmPix to review next week, too. Note, they are not going on sale next week; Kodak's PR firm is loaning me one.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

RE: Well done, Ed!
OldMatador @ 5/4/2001 8:49:03 AM #
Ed,

Do you know what the new PalmPixs might be going for when they are realeased?
Does Kodak have a timeframe for their release? Thanks.

Bill

--
Bill Lehecka
http://www.oldmatador.com/letterman/

Palm, you idiots!

mikecane @ 5/3/2001 9:33:38 AM #
One other thing Ed. Your review contained a major disappointment: that the new alarm sounds can only be used with the Clock app. What the hell was Palm thinking (well, it has yet to established that Palm actually thinks *at all*, based on their history!)? I was hoping those sounds could be used in the DateBook to distinguish types of timed events. I was further hoping that someone would find a way we could create custom sounds we could use too. Now that bubble has burst. Palm, you idiots!

RE: Palm, you idiots!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:58:28 AM #
Sounds like a HACK someone is going to come up with...

RE: Palm, you idiots!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:15:20 PM #
AlarmMaster - Create and edit alarms
DateBk4 - Assign custom alarms to appointments


no brightness setting ???

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:41:37 AM #
So you CAN't control the brighness of the screen just like the IIIc ?? WHY ?? its using more battery power ?? if yes, so what.. put a brightness setting in it, then you can decide yourself if you want a short (full brightness)or long battery life (no brightness)..
I don't care..

RE: no brightness setting ???
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:54:47 PM #
Would it be possible to create a hack for this? Anyone know? This would solve quite a few problems w/ the display...I would like to determine the brightness....I'd pay good cash for a hack that would enable this as I think others would too.

RE: no brightness setting ???
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 3:01:31 AM #
Umm... the reason there is no brightness setting is because this is a reflective TFT. Unlike an active TFT, which the Palm IIIC and laptop computers have, which require a backlight, the reflective TFT depends on ambient light to light up the display, with only the sidelight for situations that are too dark. That's the whole reason for the reflective TFT - it uses FAR less power than an active TFT

RE: no brightness setting ???
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 11:11:48 AM #
The fact the screen is reflective has NOTHING to do with not supporting different brightness levels. iPAQ's support multiple brightness levels. I think you are getting mixed up with contrast control which the iPAQ also doesn't support. Not sure if this is because it is a reflective screen or that this is also a Sony manufactured screen and that lack of functionality is particular to that manufacturer. Anyone know?

Looks like Palm only supports one brightness setting to conserve power. iPAQ on brightest sidelight setting sucks power like you wouldn't believe, but given the choice of choosing this myself and being forced to use something that supposedly is only half as bright as an iPAQ on it's lowest brightness setting...

Surely a hack will be available to allow more advanced users to choose which ratio of brightness/power drain they prefer.

Differences EXIST between m505 MODELS!!!!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:06:10 AM #
Couple of notes folks, I purchased an m505 yesterday that was "perfect" except for a stuck pixel near the middle of the screen. I couldn't stand it so I went out this morning and had to search numerous other Office Depot stores to find one with an m505 and exchange the unit. The new unit I found is PERFECT but I found some MINOR differences:

1) The unit I got yesterday was made in Hungary. The unit I got today was made in the USA.

2) The unit I got yesterday had small imperfections in the edging of the screen (which I didn't think were imperfections until I saw the PERFECT edge on my new USA unit) that made little "brighter" edges where there was bleed through of the sidelight.

3) The back of the Hungary unit had raised lettering and the USA unit has smoother lettering similar to my old Palm V. I think the raised lettering was better but both look good and solid.

4) The stylus was even more impossible to get out of the USA unit and I thought the Hungary unit was bad! Luckly this gets much easier after a few times and becomes a piece of cake after 20 pulls.

5) As a heads up to the inevitable question: the brightness of the screens is the same, and to me, excellent (and I own a Palm IIIc.)

In summary... I thought all m505's were being built in Hungary because my first one was and Brighthand.com is reporting that... but my new m505 is from the USA and it is even better.

Dave

PS: OS 4.0 HAS BIG FLAW!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:12:25 AM #
Also I had an OS problem with the Hungary model (which I have NOT tried to duplicate with the USA model, I assume it will also have the problem) that is IMHO pretty big. When I got the unit out of the box and went to the HotSync application on the Palm, I could pick the various choices available such as Cradle, IR to PC, Modem, etc. but after I did a HARD RESET all those options are NO LONGER present in the HotSync application but you can recreate them yourself (which is VERY confusing if you have never used a Palm before, which of course is not the case with me hahaha, I love 'em) by selecting "new" under connections. If you attempt to HotSync after a hard reset and you haven't "created" a new profile it leads to a reset each and every time that can only be done with the reset button in back. Needless to say I expect Palm will need to fix this...

RE: Differences EXIST between m505 MODELS!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:58:43 PM #
Could you explain in greater detail what you mean by the Hungary model having sidelight imperfections....I have a Hungary model and would like to check my unit. Thanks!

RE: Differences EXIST between m505 MODELS!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:18:09 PM #
Ok a few more details on the USA vs. Hungary m505 differences.

The m505 from Hungary I had yesterday... first look at the very edges of the screen with the sidelight on. Just barely, barely past the edge of the last pixels. If the edge is a black dark line when view from straight above (from the side the sidelight of course is visible) then it is perfect (like my USA model.) My Hungary model has small "nicks" in the edging beyond the last row of pixels that let some sidelighting bleed upwards showing what looked like a bright dot (I am REALLY nitpicking here, I would never have a *problem* keeping that unit if it weren't for the stuck pixel.)

ALSO and this is intresting... I think my USA m505 may have a plastic back. As I noted above the back has a different style of printing on it from the CE/SD etc. labels on the Hungary m505 and it feels barely warmer than the front which some says indicates plastic. Also the color MAY barely be different from front to back. I could care less if the back on mine is plastic as the rest of the unit is perfect and better than the m505 from Hungary I had yesterday but is there a way I can test the back to see if it is plastic?


RE: Differences EXIST between m505 MODELS!!!!!!!
ckohl23 @ 5/3/2001 3:39:00 PM #
most plastics do not conduct electricity. try to complete a simple DC light bulb circuit on both sides. if the front works and the back doesn't then you know the back is plastic. hope this helps.

RE: Differences EXIST between m505 MODELS!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:38:39 PM #
On my Hungarian model, I notice that if I tilt the unit upward (so that the SD slot is in view) and look down onto the backlit screen, there is a large 'shadow' or unlit region in the lower left hand corner as compared to the lower right hand corner. This dark band extends back (in a virtual sense) into the screen.

Anyone else see this, or is this a flaw?

testing for plastic
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 6:12:49 PM #
just look @ the accesoie clips & universal connector. if they have black plastic around them (like mine) your's is metal. if not (my 500) it is plastic.

-Pepper

RE: Differences EXIST between m505 MODELS!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 1:56:03 AM #
any way to tell which one you buy from the outside box (ie when still at the store?)

RE: Differences EXIST between ... any way to tell
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 7:20:14 AM #
A small white sticker with a barcode is placed on the box on the right hand side where the other barcodes are. It says Handheld Assembled in Hungary. There is a similar one on the bubble wrap that encloses the unit inside.

Slot Use

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:37:20 AM #
Well, if you cannot work directly off of the SD card, then how is this much different then owning a
memory safe?

RE: Slot Use
Ed @ 5/3/2001 10:44:46 AM #
If I understand it correctly, with the MemorySafe you would have to manually copy the app on to the Palm, run it, then manually delete it. With the SD card, you just tap on the app and everything else is taken care of for you.

The same thing happens (the app is run from RAM), but the difference is who does the work, you or the OS.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

RE: Slot Use
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:44:55 AM #
Of course you can work directly off the SD cards, unlike Sony's memory sticks. You can execute programs but if the programs access data, the programs have to be written so that they are "SD Card aware". It it up to the software developers to write code that uses the SD cards.

RE: Slot Use
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:59:26 AM #
Wait a sec, in the review doesn't he say that "it just pretends to work of the SD Card"? Like the
previous comment, the info has to be copied to RAM and then deleted? Of course its done
automatically which is nicer than Memory safe. Also, the memory safe does have to be manually
copied.

Be Careful with SD Cards

Ed @ 5/3/2001 10:39:07 AM #
I just got an e-mail from a new user who has already broken his new m505. To remove an SD card from the slot, you need to push it in and it will pop out. If you don't do this and just pull it out with main force and clumsiness, you will break the Palm and SD cards will no longer sit correctly.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: Be Careful with SD Cards
mikecane @ 5/3/2001 11:47:23 AM #
OUCH! The poor fellow! That's what happens when you don't RTM! It was in the PDFs we all saw several weeks back.

RE: Be Careful with SD Cards
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 4:45:04 PM #
The poor fellow was me...
I had e-mailed ed from work. Did it in the bus
going to work.

BIIG bummer...
(I have to admit I am one of those pretend to know it
all gadget geeks that thinks he doesn't need to read the manual...;-(


The good news is I got it replaced immediately. And my
soul is in peace.

I though I should warn others of this.

Thanks ed for posting my embarassment..


i ruined one
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 6:17:14 PM #
but it wasn't mine. office depot had an m500 out on demo and I did that to theirs. i realized then i'd broken it, so i didn't make the same mistake with mine

RE: Be Careful with SD Cards
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 5:56:00 AM #
Is the dummy card supposed to just slide out? I know you're supposed to press in and it pops out, and than seems to work. I just checked this today on my US unit and it doesn't seem to be retained at all. Is it broken? I worry because I left it out and someone was playing with it whan I wasn't watching. I'll try to get a card to try it out tomorrow.

RE: Be Careful with SD Cards
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2001 1:57:26 AM #
OK, I went and got a 16MB card today - look slike the dummy card lacks the retention notch that the actual cards have - the 16MB card seems to be held in. Whew! I was worried I either had a defective unit or someone had forced the slot.

RE: Be Careful with SD Cards
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/4/2001 12:41:42 AM #
hey guys, i just broke my SD slot, but i figured out a way to fix it if you can't return the unit. use a paper clip, cut out a small piece of metal, then straighten out a long piece to push the bottom of the slot. when you see the gap open fill it in with the small piece of metal. this way the spring would not be released, and now you have a better design than the original. note: this take a lot of patient and skills but i managed to fix it in one night. good luck!!!

mo

What about Launch'Em?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:48:55 AM #
Do any of you proud owners use Launch'Em by synsolutions? How does this cope with apps on the SD card?

Also, any probs with DateBk4?

RE: What about Launch'Em?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:04:00 PM #
I use Launcer III 2.1 w/o problems, the
only minor irritant is that the battery
life indicator / memory icon refreshes
itself every few seconds.

RE: What about Launch'Em?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 1:18:04 PM #
Doesn't see them at all

Wrong Ideas

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 11:08:02 AM #
I think a few of you have some misconceptions about screens and features...

Screen quality has nothing to do with resolution or number of colors... it's all about contrast, brightness, color acuracy and other details.

Image quality, on the other hand, is all resolution and colors.

And believe me... 256 colors vs. 32K colors is not that big a difference... You can easily live with 256 (but of course, 32K is nicer :-)

Another thing, IMHO... the three most important features on a handheld are SIZE, SIZE and SIZE. And size really matters when putting it in your pocket, not when holding in your hand.

That's why I love Palms... any palm (even the VII) is smaller than pretty much any PocketPC (which won't even fit in your pocket)... and the V/50x form factor can't be beaten.

And that's why I have a V... and didn't even look at the IIIc... I rather have a small one than a color one... but now that the 505 is out, I guess I don't have to trade off anymore.

RE: Wrong Ideas
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 3:51:25 AM #
EXACTLY. I just finished reading the threads on this page and was astonished to see how many people mixed up screen and image quality. I guess it's an easy mistake to make since we've all grown so used to getting excellent screen quality from our PCs and Macs (I mean, how many TRULY bad mainstream CRT monitors are there on the markets? We have flat screens and even flatter screens aplenty, with vibrant colors and high refresh rates).

Since we're no longer as concerned about the screen quality, some of us have propably forgotten the fact that screen and image quality are different animals altogether. The only clear items left for comparison are resolution and amount of colors.

Screen characteristics which are meaningful to the end user consist of aperture grille pitch (if that's the correct term - affects wether you see those lines between pixels or not), performance in different lighting conditions (does the display wash or "black out" in sunlight, etc) and physical screen size (the smaller the screen, the harder the contents are to read).

Image characteristics which are meaningful to the end user include resolution (the higher the resolution, the more content you can display) and color range (the more colors can be displayed.. well.. the more colors you can see).

And make no mistake: with some clever thinking you can make a majority of software titles look as good on a 256 color display as on a display with more colors. The only real applications which can suffer a lot from the lower amount of colors are image editing or viewing software, and the second category which CAN in some cases suffer from it are certain games, so what does that leave out? Other games, word processors, sheet programs, map software, banking applications, etc, etc. They can all look really great even with 256 colors.

When it comes to PDA device screen and color / resolution, I'd go for an excellent screen first, resolution second and color third. That's my opinion, anyway.

RE: Wrong Ideas
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 9:11:18 AM #
Ok ok ok ... I'm 'wrong'. I just love the nice sharp smooth fonts that come with practically every standard Palm app when used on my N700C in high resolution mode. I guess if I had 65K colors, those old, cute, chunky Palm fonts would look much better than my 256 color super sharp clean N700C fonts ... Naaahhhh. I think I'll just 'put up' with my nicer looking fonts which are much easier to read. I hope you have fun with your quaint chunky fonts.

RE: Wrong Ideas
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/6/2001 5:06:00 AM #
OK - how is the Sony Clie size wise...? Size is a concern if you really use these things as tools Vs toys...don't be smart - just tell me how much bulkier the Sony is to use Vs the m505?

SD card question....

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 11:48:17 AM #
If I leave my 16 meg SD card in (or Game card etc.) and am not USING it (ie. it is still blank, I am not playing one of the games etc.) does the Palm still use more power? Should I leave the slug card in place when not using a card or does it not matter in terms of battery life?

The m505 screen is HORRIFIC- Im trading mine for the 500

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:01:05 PM #
I don't know why everyone likes the screen on the M505. It's probably the worst example of a PDA screen out there. I'm quite disappointed. It's fair in the sunlight but colors are bland. In living room lighting the screen is 90% unreadable until you turn on the weak backlight- which washes out the colors and gives everything a blue-grey hue. I'd rather have a monochrome Palm V or M500. This is just the way they are- it isn't broken. My buddy has one and his is identical- and he thinks it's nice.

Mine is brand new- if you want it I'll sell it to you at cost + shipping or I'm returning it. email me at saurus4@excite.com. I can fax you the receipt to verify.

RE: The m505 screen is HORRIFIC- Im trading mine for the 500
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:07:45 PM #
PS- Im in Denver if you want to grab it locally..

RE: The m505 screen is HORRIFIC- Im trading mine for the 500
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 1:22:49 AM #
You mean the screen looks like you "painted a water color picture on your concrete garage floor"? - I heard someone using this description for the new M505 color screen....

RE: The m505 screen is HORRIFIC- Im trading mine for the 500
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 10:24:44 AM #
Although I feel "HORRIFIC" is a bit overstated,I do feel that the M505 display is much less than I expected. It is dim and the contrast is very poor. Even with the sidebar light on I am disappointed. I would be slow to recommend the M505 over the IIIc to most people, especially those wanting to play games such as Simcity,etc...I not satisfied with my new M505 after my initial 40 hours of ownership, maybe I can get "used" to it.

Got my m505 from RCS

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 12:03:38 PM #
Ordered from RCS yesterday and had it shipped overnight to Northern Michigan (no Office Depots here). It's nice. The screen is not a problem, I'm not quite sure what the complaint is. Makes me wonder if some people just had units with faulty screens. And whomever said it was not visible from a side angle, it is DEFINATELY visible... The black grid is visible... when the unit is OFF. I didn't even notice it while it was on.

Reading some of the complaints (and misinformation) over the past couple days, I'm wondering if A) there were a lot of defective units and/or B) there were a lot of people pretending to have one for god knows what reason.

All in all, I'd have to say that this is an excellent little device.

-Dave #53

Let's talk about the screen
alee @ 5/3/2001 12:56:03 PM #
I had my friend pick one up for me in NYC from RCS and ship it.
I got it by 7:06am :)

The screen is absolutely fine. I think there is an ugly trend going on where
people think that "brightest" means the best. The brightest screens always
draw the most attention -- people always seem to gravitate towards them,
like when you go into a Circuit City and look at TVs. However, the truth is,
brightness is not the end all of judging screens. Too much brightness is a
bad thing!

Let's just say this... the m505 screen looks fine. Compared to the
IIIc and the Prism, the screen looks very dull -- however, here's a perfect
example where brightness isn't everything. The IIIc and Prism screens are
SO BRIGHT that they create a lot of eye fatigue. Coupled with the lower
resolution, this makes the "black grid" effect very difficult to endure for
prolonged periods of time.

In an office setting, with overhead flourescent lights, the m505 screen is at
the very least as usable as the Palm V screen. There is certainly a lot more
contrast thanks to the addition of color. At certain angles, when not enough
light is able to be reflected, the m505 needs the sidelight on.

With the sidelight on, it is neither too bright, nor too dark. There is no
question about visibility when the light is on. After using it all day in the
office, I have no question that indoors, I won't need the sidelight. Unless
your office is a dungeon, you probably won't either. What you will need to do
is "angle" your Palm a little differently to get some reflected light. I can
certainly stare at the m505 for much longer periods of time than I can with
a Prism.

And one more thing to point out is that there is the inevitable comparison
between the IPAQ and the m505. Well, when the sidelight is on, the IPAQ
is brighter. With the backlight off, I can happily say both units perform
identically. The technology is the same. The only difference is that the
IPAQ has a much brighter sidelight.

I don't think people are getting defective units. I think they're judging based
on brightest is best.

-Al

RE: Got my m505 from RCS
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:05:19 PM #
Did some of us get defective screens? Are there two different versions maybe? USA made vs. Hungary made? Or some other difference....my screen seems pretty dim to me and my unit was manufactured in Hungary. I can't wait until the units are on display so that I can compare mine to the US version and then make a decision on a return. If I can get 1/50th more brightness from a different unit I'd be all over it!

RE: Got my m505 from RCS
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:49:01 PM #
I don't think it's a faulty screen issue. I think that people like the screen because it's different and has shock value- excitement.

When it comes to actual utility there may be some disappointment.


RE: Got my m505 from RCS
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:41:48 PM #
I work at RCS and it is true we do have them for immediate shipping. (877)746-7727
David

The screen is much better than I expected.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:07:15 PM #
Pardon me gays but all this stuff about so-called "bad" quality of m505 screen just makes me smile! I wonder if anyone ever tried to bring his desktop monitor outdoors or at least close to windows? When I try my Toshiba notebook (active matrix, SVGA, one of the best on the market) somewhere outdoors I've got to find a good shadow just to be able to see anything on a screen! The colors of my m505 of course not so perfect as the ones on my Toshiba notebook, but I can see them ENYWERE ANY TIME. Simply you won't be able to find any circumstances to make m505 unreadable. I believe m505 is a beautiful unit with the best PDA's display on a market! Thanks PALM to bring us so perfect engineering achievement! For skeptics I've got some free advise: just try to understand - the display of m505 is a compromise! It's not perfect if you need to test true color graphic applications or use it as a color calibrator for high quality color photo processing. It was not produced for that kind of activity! But as a PDA it'll never let you down. BTW, my PALM m505 was made in Hungary.

Backup card and mmc

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:16:42 PM #
Two questions -
1. What is the difference between the backup card that palm sells and a 16MB SD card??

2. Will regular MMC cards work because the price for a 32MB seems to be the same as the 16MB SD card Palm is selling?

RE: Backup card and mmc
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 2:05:30 PM #
There is no difference. The SD cards are more expensive because they can be "locked". The MMC cards work just fine though.

RE: Backup card and mmc
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 4:37:07 PM #
The way I understand it is that the memory cards don't have a "backup" utility on them. The backup card does and makes backups from the programs/databases on the RAM.
The way around this if you want to use a regular memory card is to go to PalmGear, do a search under "backup" and the first program that comes up (offered last week) offers the backup utility so that any memory card can function as a backup card.
If anyone knows differently, please share with us.
Hope this helps.

MMC and SD work fine
alee @ 5/3/2001 5:38:00 PM #
SD has "secure" extensions to it, so data on the card can be locked, etc.

The Backup Card is essentially an 8mb card with software on it for backing
up. I was originally going to get a Backup Card, but it appears Blue Nomad
BackupBuddy now comes with a great new piece of backup software that
supports SD/MMC.

Take any size SD or MMC card and put it in the m505. Use the Backup
utility and it'll do a full system backup on to your card. Any remaining
space on the card can be used for other data/apps. You can have
the Backup utility perform a backup every day at a certain time, or
just everytime you turn the Palm off.

Assuming you have a big enough SD/MMC card, using BackupBuddy is
a better bargain. I'm using it right now with the 16mb Palm SD card.

-Al

RE: Backup card and mmc (Canadian content)
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:26:20 PM #
I beleive the SD cards also have faster transfer speeds too--10MB/sec vs 2.5MB/sec. See this link for a comparison:

http://davespda.netfirms.com/hardware/expansion/cfmmcsd.htm

P.S. If you read the fine print on the box for the Palm 16Meg SD Memory Card, it says the following: "The total card capacity of 16 million bytes is divided into a security area and a user accessible area (of approximately 14.6 million bytes). So you're not really getting 16Meg.

Here in Canada, they sent me the card I preordered from Palm, (got it Monday) just not the Palm. None of the Canadian online retailers have any in stock. www.Onvia.ca is about $40 cheaper than FutureShop, Radio Shack, or Office Depot here, but aren't expecting any till the 15th, and then only 50.

good luck eh!

RE: Backup card and mmc
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 11:42:39 PM #
Business Depots in Toronto are supposed to have the m505 now.

RE: Backup card and mmc
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 5:19:40 AM #
you might want to wait until costco gets them as they are usually 100 bucks cheaper (at least in vancouver)

RE: Backup card and mmc
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 11:05:41 AM #
The SD card is currently only at around 2MB/s but will be up to 10 later this year.
http://www.sdtrend.com/data/sdinfo/fast.html

any good place to get MMC cards?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 9:24:25 PM #
ANy links, please

RE: Any good place....
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 11:25:40 AM #
Go to CNET.com, using the link below. In the search box type in SD card or MMC card. Once it gives you a list of available cards, click one, then compare the prices.

http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/0-1257.html?tag=dir

thanks fof nothing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 11:30:26 AM #
There not only idiots out here...
cnet and and pricegrabber are obvious...
Any real links with good prices???

RE: Backup card and mmc
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 12:53:45 AM #
Try this,
Amazon.com got both mmc and sd. You also can use the coupon MDMCAMZNALLL to get another $10.00 off. Good luck.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-6148752-9747028

thanks a lot!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2001 1:43:31 PM #
The promotion does not work for just one card but the shipping is free.

I agree- BAD screen- bland and washed out

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:17:52 PM #
I'll have to agree with the people that say the screen is bad. Not because it isn't bright, but because it's grey and the colors aren't vivid.

A great example of the screen is as follows:

Imagine a brand new grey concrete garage floor. Now imagine painting art with watercolor paints on that grey floor. That's how it looks. Whoever compared it to a color game boy nailed it perfectly. Turning on the backlight is like turning on a blue'ish flourescent light on that watercolor painting on a garage floor.

RE: I agree- BAD screen- TOTALLY
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:22:19 PM #
HAHAHA!! That's right! A concrete garage floor with water paints is a great analogy.

RE: I agree- BAD screen- bland and washed out
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 1:23:38 PM #
It just isn't bright and clear.

RE: I agree- BAD screen- bland and washed out
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 3:53:43 PM #
Just went to Office Depot to check out the demo and the anyone who likes the screen i s smokin crack!!!

RE: I agree- BAD screen- bland and washed out
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 5:32:43 PM #
You know the complaints about the m505's screen sounds errily similiar to Sony's first attempt to produce a color Clie. Some of you may not know that there WAS a color Clie before this current PEG-N710C model.

Here's the low-down, Sony introduced a color Clie called the PEG-S500C(I think) in Japan following the immense success in the Japanese market of their monochrome PEG-S300 Clie. The color Clie drew numerous complaints from customers, they stated that the color was [B]dull, dim, and washed-out[/B] (sound familiar?).

The Clie was so ill-received in Japan, Sony did not even bother release the unit anywhere outside Japan, the color Clie was a huge blunder for Sony. Fortunately, Sony learned from its past mistaken and now it has created the Clie PEG-N710C, which has a brighter color screen and increased resolution.

You would think that Palm would have learned from Sony's past mistakes, a dim, dull screan with washed-out color will earn more critism than praise.

Free 16MB Expansion Card with M505 @ Office Depot

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 2:04:01 PM #
Got the M505 at Office Depot yesterday and used a coupon from Sunday's Houston newspaper for a free 16MB expansion card. There was a large Office Depot ad in the newspaper with the coupon. The coupon said "Free 16MB card with the purchase of M500" but they honored it when I bought the M505.

If you can find the coupons it's a savings of $50 + tax.


Reading the review

Paul Purcell @ 5/3/2001 2:51:35 PM #
I didn't read the review because it wasn't formatted to be read on my IIIxe. I found that surprising.

Is the Alarm Louder?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 3:23:47 PM #
Is the alarm louder? I have been shopping and awaiting the new 505. I found the IIIc to NOT be loud enough. There was no differentiation between medium and loud! I also tested the Handspring Edge, which has excellent loud volume. Did Palm catch on to this? If you have the unit and have owned any of the others, please advise.

RE: Is the Alarm Louder?
ckohl23 @ 5/3/2001 3:46:08 PM #
i previously owned a Palm V. but i've heard that the m505 has a much louder speaker than the iiic. it might be my imagination but the speaker actually sounds a tiny bit better than the one on the Palm V but about the same volume.

Yes
alee @ 5/3/2001 5:34:58 PM #
I did an alarm test on both my Palm V and my Palm m505, and the m505 is definitely
louder. There is no mistaking this. The m505 doesn't sound muffled at all... very
loud and clear alarm.

-Al

RE: Is the Alarm Louder?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:38:47 PM #
Yes, it is louder. The alarm preferences are Low Loud, Medium Loud, and High Loud. By contrast, I tried a Visor Platinum for about two weeks and its alarm preference are Low Quiet, Medium Quiet, and High Quiet.

The alarm is loud enough to use as a travel alarm. I tried it out as a morning alarm (set on high of course) and it worked great for this. That is how loud it is.

Also, the system sounds are just loud, so that you have to turn them off, unlike the Platinum where you could set it on low and it was barely audible and therefore quite usable in just about any setting.

I love color, but I don't love the m505

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 3:45:15 PM #
Hi,

I have been reading this site for the past few weeks, and have found many of the insights (and 505 sightings) very helpful, so I thought I owed it to the group to express my first thoughts about the device.

I got one of the first units at an NYC Office Depot, yesterday morning. I was extremely excited about the idea of this machine since I imagined it as a PalmV owner, and with the help of this site, got my hands on one of the first in Manhattan. (just as early as I bought my original Pilot...) And let me go a little further to say that color is extremely important to me. I work in the design/CG field, and the idea of a color handheld is very exciting to me.

My problem is that once I tried the PalmV, it set my standard for handhelds. Any device bigger or heavier was too big or too heavy. In that sense, the Sony Clie, with its lovely vivid screen was out of the question. It fails the front pants pocket test.

So, with a PalmV form factor and a 'usable' color screen, the 505 seemed to be my ideal machine. (By the way, I'm replacing my trusty PalmV because I need more memory....)

After extensive tests, much to my sadness and your caution, I've decided to return the device and get the m500. The screen is just kinda lame. And the last thing I want is a device that's heavier, thicker, and shorter-battery-lived than my PalmV.

I tried several color applications, and was most impressed with the screen quality for games, but even with bright colors on screen it is dull and lusterless. (In the dark with the light on is the only place it really works well.) Looking at both sample images and my own higher res images through PhotoSuite was the clincher, though. Images look far better in 16 greys on my PalmV than they do in color on the 505. They are mushy and muddled and awful. It really doesn't look like what Im used to when I think 16-bit color, that's for sure. And I never understood what the "grid" issue was until looking at this unit. Now I do. There is a grid, and it does not please me.

So, at this point, I had to really examine what I use the handheld for. Aside from the organizer functions, I love to use AvantGo and Vindigo. Both require readability above all else. Nothing requires color. If I was going to, in the future, do some great new applications like digital palmtop photography and image processing, well, I would certainly want a better screen than on the 505.

So, as much as I want to own the device I'd like the 505 to be (a PalmV form factor with a crisp, bright color screen) I do not want to the Palm 505. My m500 will have to get me by until the next generation of devices arrives....

/Brian


RE: I love color, but I don't love the m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 6:08:23 PM #
Thank you for your review (it's the most informative and unbiased of all I've read) I too was very excited about the m505, even took a trip to Office Depot. they had 5 units but none on display, it took about 20 minutes to convince myself to wait and not part w/ my $449. Maybe after checking out a demo unit somewhere I may purchase it, but with so many people having concerns and asking myself 'Do I really need color' I'm sticking with my perfectly functional Vx

RE: I love color, but I don't love the m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 12:20:20 AM #
I agree wholeheartedly! I will be taking back my M505. I know spec-wise it is supposed to have 64K colors, but all I see is red gray, blue gray, green gray, etc. Totally unacceptable. Well, perhaps someone else will grab it and be happy with it. It's a joke as a color device, and it's wimped out as a grayscale device. I just don't get it. The Sony or HandEra seems to be my next bet.

Here are a few photos from my Palm m505

alee @ 5/3/2001 6:24:16 PM #
I took these indoors, with sidelight on and no flash. Room is illuminated with 2 floor lamps with
60W incandescent bulbs.

Judge for yourself! http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/palm

Enjoy!
-Al

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 8:47:29 PM #
Nice pics dude. I have found the the sidelight is a must on my 505 unless you are outside.

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:10:29 PM #
Cool pics! Hey how did you get AIM on your PDA? I thought you can only get AOL which is the whole package in one... you can get just AIM?

AIM for Palm OS
alee @ 5/3/2001 9:15:50 PM #
Here it is: http://www.aol.com/aim -- you should see the Palm OS version link on the left.

Not that it does much good for most m505 users since the modems (wireless and wired) are not out yet for the m505 (yet!)

-Al

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:36:02 PM #
wow. definately the best examples yet.
screen looks great!! now can you take some
pics with the backlight off for comparison?
thanks.

Ok, revisit the page
alee @ 5/3/2001 10:06:33 PM #
Revisit the page: http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/palm

I have 2 comparisons that show sidelight on vs. sidelight off.

-Al

My personal comment on the photos
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:37:26 PM #
I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the photos...

At no point while using my m505 would I ever mistake it for being anything but a color Palm. While the screen is dim in low ambient light, it is no different than my Palm V was. You turn on the sidelight when you need it, and keep it off when you don't. In every case, I firmly believe that the m505 screen is an improvement over the Palm V.

The screen remains sharp and crisp even in dim light. The colors may be "muddy", but you never lose definition. With the sidelight on, the screen is beautiful. It does not have the harsh brightness of the Prism or the IIIc. It is smooth, and very pleasant. You can't use it for a flashlight, and I think your eyes will thank you for it.

Of course, that's my opinion on the matter. :) Don't expect Prism brightness. Treat the lighting like you would on your Palm V. I think you'll find the m505 screen to be just about perfect.

-Al

Best Examples Yet...you should write a review
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:48:09 PM #
Geez...finally I have an idea what the screen is about. All these far away pix on sites do no good. Your pics are awesome, I finally know what this d*mn grid is that everyone is talking about. Who cares...it looks fine to me. And resolution, what are these people planning on using the device for? This device will serve me fine for what I've always used a Palm for. I want more pictures. God, I wish my Palm would arrive (from either Gateway or Amazon)...I cannot bring myself to pay close to $500 at Office Depot when I have one preordered from Gateway for less than $400. Can't wait. Thx for the pix.

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 11:08:47 PM #
Yeah, I can't wait for my preorder too. I've seen one in OfficeDepot but I don't want to pay the extra money.
To answer the question about what it looks like with the backlight off, the one I've seen in OfficeDepot looks like it's been set to greyscale when you turn the sidelight off. That's in indoor light though, it probably looks better outside with the backlight off than inside with it on.
I do have one question though- Is that a preproduction model in these pictures? I noticed that it does not say "m505" on the upper right corner like the one in OfficeDepot does and also the black grid seems a lot worse on yours (It wasn't noticeable on the one in the store), although that might just be the camera.

It does say m505
alee @ 5/3/2001 11:16:43 PM #
The m505 logo is there. It is kind of washed out in some of the photos.

Mine is built in Hungary. Bought at RCS in NYC.

-Al

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
vgz @ 5/4/2001 11:57:55 AM #
Personally I think that you would have to hold the device about 2 inches from your eye to really notice the grid. This is based on the photos.

The staples and OD in my area won't get the 505 until next week :(. I can't wait.

Matt

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 12:04:18 PM #
AWESOME idea to use PhotoSuite to keep an NYC subway map on the Palm! I'll have to do that sometime. Thanks for the inspiration. ;)

-Jimmy

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 6:23:05 PM #
please post the links where M505 can be pre-order or order at less than $400. Thanks!!

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 6:41:40 PM #
Al,

From one 505 owner acknowledges those pics are dead on correct, the best I've seen.

At least on this 20" EIZO Trinitron.

RE: Here are a few photos from my Palm m505
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/23/2002 4:09:00 PM #
Thanks for showing those pictures. They really cleared up a lot of questionse that I had.

Palm V belt clip

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 9:56:44 PM #
Does Palm m505 fits into Palm V's belt clip? I already got one for my Palm V and I don't want to buy another one if it fits. Thanks.

RE: Palm V belt clip
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:23:20 PM #
not if it uses the rail. just about anything velcro-related will work

RE: Palm V belt clip
fshsu @ 5/3/2001 11:15:16 PM #
What is velcro-related? I am not familiar with that term. I already got a belt clip case for Palm V and wondering if it will fit Palm M505 without the cover. I don't want to spend extra $24 to buy a belt clip case for my Palm m505.

RE: Palm V belt clip
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 5:58:03 PM #
it is attached with velcro

Old case works but New case has new featrures
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 7:50:01 PM #
Yes it fits great in the Palm V belt case. I decided to order the new one anyway because it has a swivel clip and a magnetic button. I hate the sound of that Velcro when I'm in a meeting

Colour Screens

Simon Jacobs @ 5/3/2001 11:30:27 PM #
If you want a bright, clear, crisp, CHEAP colour screen with excellent battery life - believe it or not - you cannot beat a 3c.
RE: Colour Screens
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 1:18:11 AM #
IIIc hurts my eyes! I can't use it at all.

RE: Colour Screens
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 1:28:53 AM #
and 256 colors ONLY. =

RE: Colour Screens
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 5:20:41 PM #
I personally think the IIIc is REDICULOUSLY bright. It hurts to look at it. VIVA LA M505!

RE: Colour Screens
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 7:33:45 AM #
Have any of you tried turning the brightness down? You know about that right? I don't see how it could be either hurting your eyes or ridiculously bright if you adjusted it.

RE: Colour Screens
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/4/2001 4:11:03 PM #
I'm stumped. Saying that the IIIc's screen is "so bright that it hurts my eyes" makes as much sense as complaining that a 400-watt stereo system hurts your ears. There's something called a 'volume control' to adjust the sound levels to your comfort just as the IIIc and Prism have something that's called a 'brightness control'.

From reading the others' comments on how dim the m505's screen is, well..that's just as bright as it can go. I use a IIIc myself and I find it makes sense to adjust the brightness setting to the ambient lighting conditions. At its maximum brightness, it can sure double as a mini flashlight in the dark!



Cancel your preorders

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/3/2001 10:57:47 PM #
I finally saw a m505, the thing is a joke. I was expecting a dim but useable screen and it fell far below my expectations. Even with the backlight turned on it was far less readable then any other color PDA. With it turned off it was unuseable under the diffuse fluorescent light at Fry's. Also the font appeared smaller? and much less crisp. 3 employees and 2 customers agreed with me. I now have to try and change my post-order to a m500, which is barely an upgrade from my V. If you have anything with 8mb don't waste your money.

I will now go on a little rant. I am a medical student and therefore have slightly different needs than the average user but here I go:
First
1. If you want to listen to music buy a mp3 player (or Pocket PC)!
2. If you want to look at poor quality pictures buy the Sony picture frame!
3. If you want to watch movies on a palm get your head examined!
4. If you need an organizer with reference materials, and small handy programs buy a Palm!

Second
1. The SD accessory slot (it doesn't expand anything) is worthless if it is only a solid state hard disk!
2. Since companies are conserving power in CA - you will ALWAYS need the backlight, especially in hospitals!
3. Or enjoy a plastic case.
Third
Someone needs to make a Visor Edge shaped device, with the Handera 330 screen, and 32 or 64mb of internal memory. Expandable or not would corner the Palm market and create a clear distinction between the "this should have be released 2 years ago" Palms and the "technology isn't quite there yet" Pocket PCs.


RE: Cancel your preorders
CLIE Users Group Moderator @ 5/4/2001 11:16:40 PM #
Get a Sony N710C. I work with several physicians and they all seem to be planning on dumping their monochrome PDAs (Palm Vs, Visors and a few TRGPros) for the new color CLIE. The screen is amazing - once yousee it you'll never accept a monochrome screen again.

CLIE Users Group website:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CLIE_Users_Group

Not excited about Clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 3:12:14 PM #
Many of my fellow medical school students rushed out to buy a Clie and have done nothing but complained since. They don't like the shape, memory card is worthless, no accessories. I don't want it for two reasons. I will be carrying the device around 24/7. I don't want to carry the extra weight and size of gimick features such as an mp3 player. Also my experience with Sony products is dismal. 2 Sony TV's, 2 Sony cordless phones, 2 Diskmen, and a Sony alarm clock have all failed way before they should have. I have beat the crap out of my Palm V and I don't think a Sony product can handle that abuse. I'll overpay for a m500 even after the free 16mb card and $20 off.

Oh and I am a lefty.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 11:07:59 PM #
Jog wheel is worthless with your right hand. Forgot the most important reason.

Coupon for 16mb card and 500

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 2:52:58 AM #
If someone has a copy of the cupon could you please scan it for the others?

Palm m505 is an improved V

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 4:17:02 AM #
I picked up a m505 today and at first I wasn't sure about it. I guess like many others I was expecting an all new Palm with a terrific color screen. It's not that. Then I began asking what was wrong with the old Palms? Thats when the benefits of the m505 became clear.

I have been pretty happy with my Palm IIIe. My one big beef is that the device is pretty worthless after sunset. I'm talkin outside or inside. Even with the back light on it is still hard to use. Here is one place the m505 excels, it is fully functional in the dark. The backlight lights-up the whole screen, no just the text. Big plus for us folks who take our Palms out at night.

The color screen isn't that big of a deal unless you like images. This is where color makes a big difference. The pictures I have loaded with the bundled MGI software look a lot better on the color screen than on the non-color Palm screens. As for text you might like the mono screens better, no pixeled background.

The other obvious problem with my old IIIe was the memory, 2 megs. Again the new m505 addresses this problem, not only does it have 8 megs, but it has an expantion slot that will make it more useful as we all start using our Palms with more memory consuming apps.

Bottom line, if you only use text based Palm apps and don't have a night life the new m505 may not be for you. I have decided that the new unit is enough of an improvement to live with a lackluster color screen.

RE: Palm m505 is an improved V
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 9:32:07 AM #
Is it worth $450 to upgrade from a Palm V? Maybe not.

Is it worth it to upgrade from my 3 yr old palm III with 2mb and original screen (the old green one)? Definitely!

It's just like computer hardware. You wouldn't upgrade to a Pentium 4 from a P3, but going from a P1 to a P4 would be huge!

Its all relative.

RE: Palm m505 is an improved V
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 10:22:19 PM #
Exactly! You've captured the whole story with your comments. I saw it today at CompUSA. I would be physically ill if I spent $500 with tax on this unit if I already owned a Palm Vx. It is the slightest of improvements. But if I had a Palm Professional or even a Palm III, I would be jumping for joy. I stood there for half an hour trying to find a way to like the screen, but I just couldn't do it. Even with my 2 meg Palm V, it is not worth the cash.

M700 Skywalker

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 8:14:41 AM #
Palmstation has pics of what they are saying is a m700 - the wirelesss version. Can't tell if it has a color screen, but it looks similar to the V formfactor and has an SD slot. I think I will be returning my m505 this weekend.

RE: M700 Skywalker
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 6:01:16 PM #
it's monchrome, and you'll be waiting untill autumn. I wanted my 505 NOW, maybe I'll upgrade again in six months (although not likely since i'm a color fiend).

-Pepper

Where's mine?

Wayne Majors @ 5/4/2001 8:53:38 AM #
If the m505 is now available in stores, why hasn't Palm shipped to those of us who pre-ordered direct? Don't we loyal users count with Palm?
RE: Where's mine?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 4:43:10 PM #
This has been answered many times before. Palm has to deliver their latest products to brick and mortars first because they have an agreement with them to do so or the brick and mortars will not sell Palms. Palm does this because they sell the vast majority of their pdas through brick and mortars. Way, way more than they do online. If you are really bothered by that, then go down and buy one from a local OD. Otherwise stop your whining. Palm's official release date has still not come and gone so people who bitch about this like you are SO annoying.

Speed of m505?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 10:30:04 AM #
Hi,

I'm wondering how the speed of the Palm V, m500 and m505 compare. Those of you who've played with these, can you comment on their difference? Is the screen redraw on the m505 noticeably slower?

Thanks!
-Andrew

RE: Speed of m505?
alee @ 5/4/2001 10:45:10 AM #
The m505 seems significantly faster than my Palm V w/8mb upgrade. Of course, my Palm V was only 16mhz, and the m505 is 33mhz.

The speed margin may be narrower between the Vx (20mhz) and the m505, but I am very impressed so far with how snappy the response is.

-Al

RE: Speed of m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 10:52:50 AM #
I ran QuickBits on my m505. It doesn't work quite right. There is no way to turn on or off any of the speedups but it says some are on. Take these results for what they are worth.

QuickBits Index
m505: 171
Vx: 143
V: 101

Form Draw/Sec
m505: 9.96
Vx: 8.38
V: 6.83


RE: Speed of m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 11:06:09 AM #

Sorry, but I don't understand the values? The larger the faster?

Thanks!
-Andrew

RE: Speed of m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 6:04:02 PM #
i had/have a Vx, IIIc, Palmpro, m500, and m505. The speed difference during gameplay is signifcant with my m50x models. I used to find games too easy since my IIIc was so slow, and now I can hardly keep up with some!!!

-Pepper

RE: Speed of m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2001 9:03:33 PM #
using the benchmark utility...i'm running at 232% with afterburner overclocked to 45mhz....and stable

by comparison....my old Vx was unstable at anything higher that 31mhz and ran about 150%

awesome speed.

j-

why would anyone buy this?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 11:03:13 AM #
it's $450, and you get a sub-par screen with only 8MB of ram. you can't even run applications off of the memory card!

instead, for $399, you can get the Casio EM-500, which has 16MB of flash ram, 16MB of rom, SD and MMC expansion, a full-color, bright, 16-bit screen, full 16-bit audio, and a 150mhz processor. i got the EM-500 after someone stole my Visor Deluxe and i can't believe i ever used a palm-based handheld before. it's truly amazing.

palm is dying, and this model is one of the nails in the coffin.

$450! insane! what a ripoff!

RE: why would anyone buy this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 12:14:59 PM #
why are you even reading this discussion? PPC's suck.

RE: why would anyone buy this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 2:30:11 PM #
"instead, for $399, you can get the Casio EM-500, which has 16MB of flash ram, 16MB of rom, SD and MMC expansion, a full-color, bright, 16-bit screen, full 16-bit audio, and a 150mhz processor."

You also get a sluggish Microsoft Operating system which NEEDS that 150Mhz processor to run, and still gets left behind the Palms in PIM applications (the reason why people buy Palms). For the same reason (bloated OS) you NEED that 16MB Flash RAM - same for the software.

So you see, things are pretty even. On the other hand you can get a sleek, fast PIM device that does what it's ment to do, or a bulkier, power-hungry multimedia gadget.

I'm not here to judge your needs (and indeed, you shouldn't judge other people's needs), though, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

To each their own.


RE: why would anyone buy this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 5:18:24 PM #
Casio?? bwaaaahahahahahahahahaha

Oh wait, you're serious aren't you... ok um. No thanks.

RE: why would anyone buy this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 6:09:40 PM #
The original poster probably has yet to see a 505

RE: why would anyone buy this?
dteky @ 5/5/2001 2:25:41 AM #
A good product speaks for itself unlike the one you speak off. A good product doesn't require "folks" like yourself convincing "others" that it's better. Your comments are welcome here, but trust you are preaching to the wrong crowd---

I'd rather not waste my time but I shall be more than happy to go head to head with you on specific detail (features/internal workings) of Palm Power vs. Micro$oft. I assure you that you won't stand a chance.

Good luck on finding the truth,
dteky.

try to be objective, people.
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 5:18:06 AM #
sigh. i can't believe i got flamed for suggesting an alternative to a puny Palm device!

i've seen the m505. i also used it for about an hour. a co-worker bought it the day it came out. he's since returned it.

it's the same hardware, the same technology, the same interface, with the same limitations.

you guys failed to read that i, too, used to own a visor. what i failed to mention was that before the visor i owned a palm iiixe, before that a palm iii, before that a palm pilot professional, and before that even the original palm pilot.

my casio em-500 is my latest upgrade, and i've found that it is *the best* handheld i've ever owned. and with the price now being ONLY $399, it's the best buy out right now. period.

and what's wrong with casio? read the reviews before you start bashing a product you've never seen or used (sound familiar?).

i am reading this review of the palm m505 because i am interested in the latest and greatest in technology. unfortunately, after reading the reviews, seeing and using the product first hand, and developing applications for handhelds, the m505 is not in the "latest and greatest" group. hence, i repeat my question: "Why would anyone buy this?"

btw, i'm not a microsoft defender by any stretch of the imagination. i use linux exclusively. but windows ce is great as an embedded os on the handheld (cassiopeia, ipaq, jornada, @migo, etc). i've only had it lock up once, and that was my fault. i was developing an app for it and foobar'd it. a simple reset and it was back to normal. since then, it's been perfect, which is much better than i can say for any palm handheld i've had.

More than a lot of people need
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 11:29:34 AM #
I've seen the Casio, and even though it's only $399 now, it's still more than I really need--don't want the built-in mp3 or video capabilities. Plus, it doesn't have as many accessories as a Palm or even an HP Jornada. Targus doesn't have a keyboard for it, at least as far as I've heard.

Is the m505 that great a machine? Well, to people who hope to get the "latest and greatest" (and can afford it), I suppose so. If I had an old III with 2mb, I might spring for it. I personally own a IIIxe with 8mb, I've only used about 1/3 of that memory, and color isn't worth $450 to me, so I'll wait, thank you. The IIIxe is fine for me, just like the m100 is fine for a lot of other people. I think the m505 is cool, without a doubt, but so is the Ipaq, Casio, Jornada, Prism, etc. And these units all have their limitations, too, just as my IIIxe has limitations.

I guess it's human nature, though, to argue over the "best." Is the m505 the best? Probably the best PalmOS device, for the moment(Sony and HandEra will have something to say about it in around a month). BUT, just wait until OS 5.0 and ARM processors--THAT will be one great Palm!

Silent Alarm

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 1:27:22 PM #
When I get my m505, I'm plannning on turning on both silent and sound alarms all the time,
and scheduling silence hack to turn off the sound when I only want the vibrating alarm to go off.
That way you don't have to go to prefs and change the sound manually ahead of time all the time.
I don't know if that will actually work, maybe silence disables vibrating alarms or something.
Silence was available at http://home.att.net/~foursquaredev/ last I checked.

RE: Silent Alarm
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 9:55:44 PM #
You are totally correct. I actually tried this test. I set up an alarm to go off. I enabled all the alarm options (light, sound, and vibration). I then enabled Silence Hack for the time the alarm would go off. It worked like a charm! The unit made no sound, but the power button lit up and the unit DID VIBRATE.

I agree that it's not the best workaround, but it definitely answers the reviewer's complaint about having a day alarm go off, but then having his alarm for David Letterman be vibrating. All he'd have to do is tell Silence to enable itself during that certain time slot.

Palm should have gone high resolution with 256 colors

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 1:29:22 PM #
With a screen this muddy, Palm should have used a higher resolution screen like Sony. Who cares about 64K+ colors when the colors are so muddy and dull? 256 colors would have been plenty. And at a higher resolution, this would have been really nice...especially in a m505 form factor. I think the m505 would be more competitive with the Clie then.

RE: Palm should have gone high resolution with 256 colors
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 2:25:49 PM #
There's a problem with that request. The two things (apart from newer or older technology) which affect current PDA display depths (how "thick" the screens are) are resolution and amount of colors. Monochrome displays are thinner because of this, and this is also one of the reasons why the Cli is thicker than the m505 (screen resolution).

So with current mainstream display technology, I doubt you could get a Vx sized PDA with a 320x320 color display. It would have to be thicker. :/

ANYONE else get a USA model NOT Hungary?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 2:17:30 PM #
Has anyone gotten an m505 built in the USA other than me, my first m505 (stuck pixel, returned) was a Hungary model my second USA... I have yet to see anyone else say they have a USA model...

RE: ANYONE else get a USA model NOT Hungary?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 4:31:54 PM #
Mine was assembled in the USA. picked it up at Office Depot in EP, MN.

RE: ANYONE else get a USA model NOT Hungary?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 6:08:48 PM #
i got USA for BOTH my m500 and m505! (but my two Vx were "assembled in malaysia")

-Pepper

RE: ANYONE else get a USA model NOT Hungary?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 9:15:29 PM #
The one I have is actually assembled in the good ole USA. I actually bought my first 505 and it was assembled in Hungary. I did not open it, but instead went to another OD and got one of the ones assembled in USA. So far no problems.

RE: ANYONE else get a USA model NOT Hungary?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 7:34:39 PM #
Picked up my USA made 505 today at the Simi Valley ffice Depot. When I got home and checked this site I was a little dissapointed this new "Contrast Hack" only works on Hungary models?! What's up with that?? Grrr... someone needs to find out the USA secret and leak it to us.

Oh well... I am still happy though. I love it!

RE: ANYONE else get a USA model NOT Hungary?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/29/2001 10:48:34 AM #
I picked up my first M505 from Office Depot and it was made in Hungary. After a couple of days I noticed that the charge meter on the Palm wasn't increasing after being charged all night. In fact, the charge light on the Palm was staying on all night as well. Palm tech said the light was supposed to go off when the charging was done and suggested I return it because it sounded like it wasn't functioning properly. Back to Office Depot for an exchange. Received a USA version and it really appears to me that the screen is a little bit brighter. I am also still having the exact same problems with charging.

RE: ANYONE else get a USA model NOT Hungary?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/16/2001 2:33:34 AM #
where can i get the contrast hack for m505

From Prism to m505?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 3:47:17 PM #
I graduated from an upgraded PalmV to a Prism a while ago. I love the brightness of the Prism, especially when it sits in the cradle on my office desk. I don't really find the grid a problem.

What I hate is its thickness. I like to keep it in my inside jacket pocket in my suit or my trouser pocket when casual. My old PalmV with the hard cover was absolutely perfect for this but the Prism isn't wonderful on my suit and just won't fit comfortably in my trouser pocket.

So the m505 sounded perfect. Colour - I'm in the UK and that's the right way to spell it :) - memory expansion slot and virtually the form factor of the V.

Now I really don't know what to do. Having read all the reviews, I'm sure I'm going to be very disappointed with the display but, as far as I can see, nothing compares for size, especially thinness. The Clie will be thicker as well as probably less versatile. Do I give up colour and get the m500, hold my breath and get the m505 or even get the m505 but keep the Prism for use just in my office and keep the two synchronised together?

Decisions, decisions!

RE: From Prism to m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 5:12:42 PM #
I too am making the jump from a Prism to the M505... I had the opprotunity to finally see a 505 in person yesterday at Office Depot, the manager's personal one actually, and I must say, having read all the comments and such, I think a lot of these people are being rediculous. I once thought I was one of the most anal people around... and finicky, and yea I think there is nothing wrong with that if you're gonna spend $450 on a PDA. But, the screen looked fine! Granted it is not GREAT. It's definitely dim. BUT, it is DEFINITELY bearable to say the least, and with the side light it's beautiful. And outside my God it's amazing. I love the thing. People should just relax and get the PDA that fits there own needs. If you want a color Palm that looks just downright COOL and is light and thin and small and convenient, the 505 is perfect. GO FOR IT! I did!

Aaron in Los Angeles, CA

RE: From Prism to m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 6:33:05 PM #
I agree- I went from a Palm V to a prism (with a brief and mistaken period with an Ipaq)- I loved the color of my prism, but longed for the size of the V,and I'm definitely selling the prism and keeping the 505. Screen is not as bright indoors, but it is fine, especially considering how good it is outdoors,and how much better the size is.

RE: From Prism to m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 7:05:44 PM #
People who say the screen is "bad" are nuts. It is different, first off with the sidelight on it is good looking in any situation. In dark light or pure darkness IT IS FAR MORE READIBLE AND EASIER ON THE EYES than my IIIc. The only situation it is not good in is a dim room with the sidelight OFF... so you turn it on and... beautiful. I installed GlowHack and now everytime I turn the unit on the sidelight is on which is perfect. If I want the sidelight off because I am in a bright area I hold the power button down for 3 seconds and bam... still a great looking screen in sunlight. For pictures of the screen REALLY LOOKS CLOSE UP (these are the best, most true to life pics of what an m505 looks like) go to http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/palm/ and judge for yourself.

Amen for People like Aaron!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 9:59:42 PM #
Amen Aaron!!!!

I thank God that there are open minded people like Aaron on this board--I am a 505 user who is not dissapointed in the product and I can't see why the majority of yall are so friggin' anal about certain periphals and criticals. Yes Palm may have poorly launched the product but you can't lie that it quite excellent. Small and compact, versitile in color--IT IS JUST A PALM--STOP BEING SO CRITICAL!!

RE: From Prism to m505?
dteky @ 5/5/2001 2:16:59 AM #
The solution to your problem is simple: get an "iPaq" wait...wait I am just kidding. I can tell you one thing-you need to get a hold of the m505 and jugde for yourself. A lot of the folks who gave bad reviews in my humble opinions take it upon them to do so because it's in their nature. Most of the retailers now a days have excellent return policies as long as you return the item within the time frame. Buy, hold it, work with it, carry it around (like the founder-he carried a block of wood around) then the answer came to him as it will come to you.

Good luck,
dteky.

RE: From Prism to m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 6:23:52 AM #
Thank you all. I'm the guy who started this thread. (I forgot to sign it.) You're all making me feel a lot happier especially as I'm importing the m505 from the US and not waiting for it to appear in the UK which isn't due until mid June at the earliest.

And maybe I can start using the Palm outdoors. I don't need to very much but it's nice to know that it's possible. It's just not worth trying with the Prism unless I can find or create a lot of shade.

Thanks again

Norm

RE: From Prism to m505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/2/2001 12:50:40 AM #
I'm one of those who also had a Prism and switched to a M505. I was impressed with the brightness of the Prism screen. I could use it like a small flashlight in the dark! But I didn't like the size. I've had the M505 for about 3 weeks. I think there is a lot of talk about the screen which is unwaranted. While the 505 doesn't have the eye-catching colors of a prism, there are trade-offs which keep me happier with the 505. The trade-off's are: 1. You can see the screen in full sunlight. I really don't want to spend the $450.00 on a unit and then can't read it in daylight. I work in an office, but I have a life and it's not inside all day. 2. The lighted graffiti area is a huge plus. Now I can use it at night. I couldn't with the prism. 3. The smaller size is really a plus and makes it easier to use it more.
Like the others have said, the screen may not be bright but it is truly usable and functional. I think it is more functional even if it won't light up the whole room in the dark.

I know why there is no Brightness Control

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 3:55:10 PM #
I have a theory. The M505 uses the same screen technology as the iPAQ. Most everyone knows the iPAQ suffers from dust under the screen. Compaq has stated themselves that partialy, the dust is a result of several "openings" in the IPAQ. The purpose of the "openings" is for heat control of the sidelight. I see no such "openings" in the M505. Due to how small and crammed the inside of the M505 is, I bet that Palm could not allow the frontlight to be any brighter due to thermal constraints. What do you think?

RE: I know why there is no Brightness Control
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 7:19:57 PM #
Maybe... but Palm has stated they "could have increased the sidelight brightness" but it would have caused "a large impact in battery life."

Re: Happy With My Palm 505 (Counter Review)

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 8:59:00 PM #
i myself am very happy with my new palm 505. opposed to those who are not to thrilled with the screen appearance (compared to a hp or IIIc) i would have to say that it is exactly what i intended it to be. as a former IIIc user i thought the screen was way too bright... now i don't have to strain my eyes and plus the theory is that you will have more bat time with this new unit.

being a person that uses my palm in the car and outside most of the time... it is alot better for me to see.

the only con i see in this unit is that a) i have to wait for a case that will fit my unit and that all my usb ports are being used so i had to order a new craddle with a serial connector from palm (only God knows when that will arrive).

all in all its exactly what i wanted. compactness vs the IIIc and better outside to read.

PEACE

RE: Re: Happy With My Palm 505 (Counter Review)
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/4/2001 9:21:49 PM #
You wrote "all my usb ports are being used so i had to order a new craddle with a serial connector"

Why not just order a USB Hub instead??

Problem: Won't HotSync !

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 12:00:33 AM #
I cannot get my new 505 to HotSynch in the cradle. I spent one hour yesterday with tech support--she was worthless. Two hours today; first with a level I, then with a level II. Now they upgraded to a Level III support person who is supposed to call me on Monday AM. Level III told Level II they have several other problems like this. They claim it is not a hardware problem, but some type of software problem.

Can anyone help??

RE: Problem: Won't HotSync !
dteky @ 5/5/2001 2:06:12 AM #
OK--sit back and take a deep breath! Email me at dteky@hotmail.com and I will see what I can do to help:)

First of all what have you done to troubleshoot the problem?
-Have you cover all the basics such as running an OS that supports USB?
-Have you attempted to connect via infrared?
-Check the settings on the palm? Downgrade the speed if you have to.
-Are you using the hotsync that came with the Palm or others such as Franklin Covey, Intellisync etc...
-Does the palm make a connection to the computer then dies or does it not even connect at all?

I'm sure you or tech support probably already had you check these things but doesn't hurt make sure. Feel free to contact me and I will do what I can to help.

Good luck,
dteky.


RE: Problem: Won't HotSync !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2001 8:58:28 PM #
I'm having the same problem with mine! I have no problems HotSyncing with the USB cradle that came with the m505 (much faster too!!), but I cannot get the serial cradle to work.


I bought the serial cradle because my PC at work runs Windows NT and can't support USB. I've exchanged the cradle for another one and hooked it up, but still nothing. It's like the data won't flow through the cable line!


Has anyone been successful in getting the serial cradle working with their m50x??

RE: Serial Cradle
Ed @ 5/7/2001 11:07:49 PM #
> Has anyone been successful in getting the serial cradle working with their m50x??

Yes, but mine is hooked up to my Macintosh PowerBook. Could it be WinNT related?

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

RE: Problem: Won't HotSync !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2001 2:01:40 AM #
Hmm... I'm sure tech support has already gone over this, but make sure when you click on the Hotsync tray icon (lower right corner of your screen) that "Local Serial" is checked. Also, make sure that the correct serial port is selected under "Setup".

RE: Problem: Won't HotSync !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2001 2:31:37 AM #
I did the original post on not hot sync'ing. Tech support, Level III called this morning, and within 5 minutes said I had some bad hardware. I called OD and they just got a new 505 in and I went in and immediately exchanged it. Charged it up and bingo, it worked. Hardware problem; unsure if the cradle or handheld.

It only put me 5 days behind. This is my first Palm and I was getting discouraged.

RE: Problem: Won't HotSync !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2001 8:28:11 AM #
I can not get mine to hotsync with USB either. Palm tech. support admitted they have a problem as they are getting alot of complaints. They are supposedly working on a fix but they aren't able to solve my issue as of yet. Waiting for another tech. to call and try to resolve.

The 505 isn't much good if you can sync it.

RE: Problem: Won't HotSync !
cyberpmg @ 5/8/2001 8:30:29 AM #
As the one who posted the problem with the serial cradle, here's more detail on what I've done and what I've encountered:


For my PC at work, I'm running Windows NT 4.0 w/ sp6a and had originally had my Palm V cradle connected to my COM2 serial port. My Palm V cradle had been working perfectly out of the box with no complaints. After bringing in my m505 and serial cradle, I disconnected the Palm V cradle and replaced it with the new serial cradle.


I then upgraded the desktop software with what came on the CD (4.0.1). I verified that the HotSync manager is set to local serial and to use the COM2 serial port. I then attempted to perform a HotSync, but the m505 would time out with an error that says:


"The connection between your handheld computer and the desktop could not be established. Please check your setup and try again."


No connection to the PC was ever established. The pop-up window that shows that a HotSync is happening never appeared. I talked online with someone from Palm about this. They said to try the cradle with another computer, and if it still doesn't work, then the problem is with the cradle. Well I did try with another computer (also running Windows NT), and got nothing.


I went back last night and got the serial cradle replaced with a new one. This time, I tried to connect it to my PC at home. It's running Windows 98 (second edition). Before I had tried, I did have the m505 USB cradle connected and working along with the serial cradle for my Palm V (also working). I swapped the Palm V cradle with the new serial cradle and still got the same problem.


I don't think that it's a Windows NT issue, but I don't know if maybe it's something with running Palm OS 4, or if I'm lucky enough to get 2 bad serial cradles in a row. I've had no problems when using my USB cradle. Any thoughts?

Signature? Oh yeah, I had one here a minute ago...

RE: Problem: Won't HotSync !
cyberpmg @ 5/8/2001 1:03:07 PM #
OK. I now got the Serial Cradle working. After doing some more online talks with Palm, it turned out that I had to do a soft reset of the m505 to get things working again. I don't know why, but this worked.


I had also noticed that I couldn't beam anything to another unit. I had tried beaming to a Palm V and to a Handspring Visor, but kept getting timeout errors (similar error that happened when I tried to HotSync).


Anyway, after the soft reset, the HotSync from the serial cradle is working and I can beam again. All is well with the world again :-)

--------------------
Signature? Oh yeah, I had one here a minute ago...

RE: Problem: Won't HotSync !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/25/2001 6:10:02 PM #
Me too. After messing around with tech and web support for a couple of weeks, and figuring out it was a hardware problem,got sent to a tech support number to get a cradle replacement. They tell me they have none and do not know when they will get them. Told me to call back in "a couple of weeks or so". Isn't that special!

Where is this Attention Manager App?

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 8:07:19 AM #
Where is the Attention Manager app that palm mentions on their website to clear multiple alarms at once? Is it on one of the CDs?

"View and Clear Multiple Alarms - Go to one place to view all the Alarms you have set. Clear multiple alarms with a single tap."

Its listed here:

http://www.palm.com/software/palmos4.html

RE: Where is this Attention Manager App?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 11:52:11 AM #
Never mind. I found it.

for those that haven't:

when you snooze an alarm, a flashing asterisk pops up in the top left corner of most apps. tapping on this will bring you to the Attention manager, where you can dismiss the alarm reminders.



My 2 Cents On The Screen

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 9:41:14 AM #
Just had a chance to see the M505 for myself. After reading all the comments on the screen I could hardly wait to hit the power button.

Baiscally this is the low down on indoor usage (which is what we all really care about): The side-light almost functions as the equivelant as turning the color on and off. When the light is on the background changes from the typicl grey, to white which makes the colors brighter. With the power light on the color indoors is GOOD, not amazing, not great, but good. The question really is, is $450 worth it for good? I am still pondering this qustion, especially with the M500 being $50 cheaper and the new Sony for only $50 more. On the Sony, though it has MP3 capabilities, it is too expensive to actually use MP3s as you must buy the high priced high memory magic cards.

RE: My 2 Cents On The Screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 10:59:01 AM #
My take on the m505 screen:

I, have had a Palm IIIc since they were introduced. I have had every other Palm from the
first Palm introduced in June, 1996.

Overall, the m505 is the best yet.
True the color is not as vivid as the IIIc or the Visor
Prism, BUT...

This is the first Palm screen that is TOTALLY readable in
bright, outdoor sunlight. In fact the screen is absolutely
beautiful outdoors without the need for the side-light unless you are in heavy shade. I cannot read the screen at all outdoors on my IIIc. It's useless there!

In typical office florescent lighting it is also perfect to read. No need for the sidelight.

Basically, what I am trying to convey is that outdoors
and indoors with flourescent lighting you will not need
the sidelight.

Just about everywhere else you will. So what? The screen with the sidelight on in dimmer situations is fine.
Not great, but very satisfactory.

So, if you are like me...I work in an office...you will love the screen. And if you go to lunch and want to sit outdoors at a cafe you will love the screen.

Any other lighting conditions...big deal...use the sidelight. The sidelight does make the colors seem washed out when compared with my IIIc, but that is the only trade-off when you realize everything else you are
gaining with the m505. (much smaller footprint and SD and MMC expandibility.

I think if you go into the store expecting what I have
written here you will be very pleased.



RE: My 2 Cents On The Screen
ColinBush @ 5/5/2001 10:38:15 PM #
For everybody enjoying the m505 I have one thing to say: get a Pocket PC. They maybe more expensive but definetely worth it. The PPC allows you to really have a "2nd" computer. Anyways for those of you teen techies (me being one; 15 from Canada eh? Toronto) I strongly suggest the HandEra 330, goto handera.com and check out the specs!!!

"...we need to bring this solution to an end" - GWB referring to the spy plane incident.
PPC!?!?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2001 5:06:22 PM #
ok, i'm offended by you implying tech teens should get less substatial models!!!! I'm only 13, earn all my own money, and NEVER settle for the cheapstuff!!! I have two palms right now (m500 & m505) have played around with PPC (i was so disgusted by its uselessness i returned it immediately) and intend on buying the Agenda when it comes out on the 21st!!! Don't you EVER imply techy teens are inferior again!!!

-PEPPER!

btw: how do you carry your pocket pc? they don't fit in your pocket, you practically need a BACKPACK to haul it around in!

Beware the cradle!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/5/2001 8:17:24 PM #
Has anyone had problems with their 505 handheld unit getting stuck in the cradle? The cradle connection is awfully tight out of the box. I bought a 505 last night, put it in the cradle and then couldn't get it out, despite following the heiroglyphics on the slip of paper in the box. I even called Palm tech support, but hung up on the guy when he asked me if the word "palm" was printed on the upper left of my handheld device!!! What did he think I was trying to do, hotsync my remote control???
Needless to say, I ended up breaking the plastic connector on the handheld and had to return the unit to Office Depot.

I managed to find another 505 (don't ask me how), opened the box, put the unit in the cradle and..... this one got stuck too! I immediately went back to Office Depot and asked for help. They asked me if I had glued it (it was that tight), since the demo unit in the store came in and out of the cradle with little trouble. After tugging really hard, we finally got it out, and it did not break the clips. I decided to test my unit in their demo cradle to see if there was a difference. Lo and behold, it came in and out easily. In addition, their demo unit came in and out of my cradle easily.
I swapped my cradle for the demo cradle and went on my way.

Has anybody else had difficulties like this? The OD staff agreed that I couldn't have done anything to get 2 units stuck in the cradle like that under normal use. I have a USA model and live in the SF bay area. What a day!

RE: Beware the cradle!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/6/2001 1:33:07 AM #
I haven't had it get stuck in the cradle but I've found the cradle contact to be quite flimsy and poorly designed. When in the cradle the Palm doesn't sit flush with the cradle's curve. Instead, there's an ugly gap.

To remove the Palm you have to tilt it forward and lift. This makes a "click" that sounds like you broke a little piece of plastic. Compared to the simple slide in design of my Palm Vx this is very poorly designed.

Additionally, the cradle now takes up more space, is lighter and made of some cheap plastic. The V/Vx cradle was elegantly designed, heavy and sturdy.

I've found the m505 (not just the cradle) to have a flimsier feel than the V/Vx. Palm should have retained the use of the company that designed the V/Vx instead of fiddling with and degrading the original design.

RE: Beware the cradle!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/6/2001 12:29:02 PM #
I have not been able to HotSync my 505 yet. Waiting on tech support. They think it is a software problem, I think it may be a hardware problem with the cradle. See my post up above.

Anyone have any ideas??

RE: Beware the cradle!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/4/2001 5:55:45 PM #
I got my m505 unit and everything worked perfect. I think maybe you don't know how to use Palm m505.

SD vs MMC

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/6/2001 11:07:39 PM #
Does anyone know which one to get? 64MB MMC is cheaper than 64MB SD, does it mean that MMC is not as good or as fast as the SD? What can I do with MMC that I can't do with SD? Are there different type of SD or MMC comming out that is better or faster in the future? Please help. (sorry if this has been addressed somewhere else, if so please tell where)

RE: SD vs MMC
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/24/2001 4:22:21 PM #
I am using a 32MB MMC w/o any difficulties (so far) using PowerRun 46, McFile, and MSMount. It appears to be faster then my colleagues who are using the Palm 16MB SD card with the inherent Palm programs. My question is this - what is the difference between Smart Media Cards and MultiMedia Cards. Several vendors make both and on the computer screen they both look alike. What is the difference (besides the price)?

RE: SD vs MMC
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/24/2001 4:40:35 PM #
I solved my own question. According to the product information at egghead.com:
Smart Media Cards: 45mm x 37mm x 0.76mm
Multi Media Cards: 32mm x 24mm x 1.4mm

Thus the MMC card is the one to use for the M500 series. Darn, couldn't save money on this one....

More Information

Fernando Alonso @ 5/8/2001 8:06:36 PM #
I would like to know more infomation about chips cards options like extention memory ,maps, etc

Screen Poor

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/8/2001 11:22:37 PM #
Got mine, returned the same day... Without the backlight indoors it is hard to tell the screen is color. And when people say muddy they mean it, readability is poor.

I'd take 256 (heck, even 16) and a vivid screen any day rather than this...

Will either wait for the M700 or by the M500 now. A loyal palm user, and want to support them so am not considering anything else right now.

Now, when the palm V came out, THAT set the standard! Here's hoping Palm can continue to pull 'Palm V' style innovation going towards the future...

RE: Screen Poor
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2001 11:02:19 AM #
how can you call yourself a "loyal palm user" when they deliver a product so poor that you have to return it to the store for a full refund?

they're letting you down and are still collecting your hard earned money. companies really start to sit up and take notice when you take your money to someone else for a better product.

check out the ipaq, cassiopeia, or new sony clie. full color, full sound, for the same price or less of the m505.

RE: Screen Poor
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/5/2001 2:39:07 PM #
I would like to know if there is such as thing as a M700. I palm coming out with a new palm and when?

speed.....everyone is missing it

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/9/2001 8:59:33 PM #
the screen is usable....the difference for me is speed.

i've got this little guy overclocked with afterburner to 45mhz!!!!

it's screaming. it is completely stable after 5 days use. battery life is fine from daily hot sync to hot sync.

i think it's odd no one is mentioning this.

also...i'm not sure why (it seems counter intuitive) but my screen appears brighter at higher clock speeds than lower.....

my .02

Palm Preorders

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/10/2001 12:47:27 AM #
When will Palm ship the preorders they have on there website? I realy need to know. Can anyone help?

HEY ED

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2001 11:52:12 AM #
Used to read your Newton pages. Am switching to 505 after reading your review (Size matters) Will I be able to synch via the Ir port to my Newton 2000?

RE: HEY ED
Ed @ 6/19/2001 11:22:53 AM #
Sorry, wrong Ed; I've never owned a Newton. I wanted one but could never afford it when I was in college. By the time I graduated the Newton was over and the Palm was on the rise.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter

Battery duration in hours

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/19/2001 9:59:12 AM #
Hi

Any one know how long the battery last in hours.
My last about 8 hours in to three days usages.

I Love it!

ritammartinez @ 10/9/2004 12:57:03 PM #
well this is my first palm pilot, so i can't really compare it to other palm pilots....but i have to say, im inlove with it! :D I've had it for 2 days already...it woke me up this morning :P and i have installed a couple of freeware programs which will help me with my classes and help me remember stuff that i usually forget cuz i don;t write em down :P...it seems so much easier to write everything in my palm than to write it on a paper or an agenda..

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