Comments on: Palm m505 Review Part I

If your flip case keeps sliding out and a few millimeters of the stylus-thingy show above the top, then it isn't inserted as far as it can be. Shove on it harder and it will eventually be flush with the top. It won't fall out then.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

thanks, i was having the same problem with the flip case and had to push it in all the way to make it flush. All in all a really good palm. Now i can stop drooling all over the dang place!

palm is where it @

I would like to see Parallel Design's Personality Pack for the m50x series. It looks like a great product for the V/Vx and they told me they were working on one for the m50x series when I sent them an e-mail. Check them out at paralleldesign.com. Maybe the m50x model will hold SD/MMC cards somehow.

Matt

Hi Palm users, this is morningstar1844@hotmail.com. I felt the same way about the leather flip case with space for 4 SD or MMC cards. but the trick was to almost jam it on and it works. After playing with my Palm M505 for several hours (mine was fully charged when I opened the shrink wrap, was very surprise. I initial impression of the screen was ok, but I consider it close to great. I like the backlit portion of the Palm for writing graffiti. It is super in a dark car or on an airplane trip. I think we are all winners. I didn't have any games installed to try out the color. Tomorrow I will try "Scud Attack" and try to report on it. I am entirely happy with the screen now. PC World did not really do a review that was correct and unbias. Thanks again to Ed Hardy!

I'd like to see Parallel Designs do their flip lids for the m5xx series too. They have a gret product there!

I emailed the guys at paralleldesign.com and
they are working on a something for the m50x.
I have the flip cover for my Palm V. I'm waiting
for the m505 to show up in a store in the greater
Boston area (we don't have Office Despot anymore).

mike

All you have to do is secure the tab at the top of the case into the slot of the palm, make sure its all the way in with no potruding edges. It should work.

I returned a palm that had this problem, the palm I exchanged it for, the slot was tighter therefore it was not so noticeble that the case fell out if not secured properly.

The same thing happend with the stylus, its very tight, on the exchanged model it was less tighter, and with wear and tear from pulling it in and out, it has become less tighter and has more functionability

Will the LV case used for the Vx fit with the m505?

Because palm made their left channel slot thinner, I can't use my hard case. I seem to have a tendency to let my palm fall out of my breast pocket when leaning over. The hardcase has saved my palm numerous times. I hope they come out with another version of the hard case for the m5xx series.

What a nice Palm, but isn't it a starter palm?
It's not the best unit out there, but a nice starter, thats for sure.

I don't think you're seeing the larger picture.

If you can offload your large databases to the SD card, your Palm shouldn't be anywhere near
8mb full.

If you can offload your Palm applications to the SD card, your Palm should always have enough
room for the applications to be automatically copied over.

Durr... wouldn't want to do something silly and oh say... move some of the applications to the SD card now, would we? That would be ridiculous, and it would free up memory, which is absolutely absurd, sweet mother of Larry!

Oh, and if Palm was smart at all, the sidelight is of some sort of LED variety (or anything similar) which means it CAN'T burn out... if they weren't smart, then poop on them.

> If I have to run the "sidelight" all the time, the
> battery is going to run to zero in no time.

I've gotten about 5.5 hours of use out of 66% of a battery charge. Looks like the charge will last at least 8 or 9 straight hours.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

I just got my first "Your battery is running low" message. A single charge lasted seven hours. It will almost certainly be longer on a day when I'm not HotSyncing five or six times. And having to HotSync by IR has to be draining it, too. Therefore, I feel safe concluding that seven hours is the absolute least amount of time a charge will last. That's with the sidelight on the entire time.

Anyone else perform this type of experiment?

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

I am somewhat disappointed with this unit,
both screen and battery wise. Using launcher
III, I can see my battery life drop by
a percentage, almost minute by minute.
(Of course I am running sidelight all the
time as I can't see anything without
having that turned on.)

I will give it a few days before returning
it, the question is whether to hold
on to my Visor for another year, or
get the m500.

I have 6 MB of important data (i.e. *patient* related data) on my Palm Vx. Not games. Not frivolous crap that can be "backed up" on an external card. Many of the useful medical apps (like mini reference manuals, etc) require 2-3 additional MB of RAM which my device just doesn't have available. Get the picture? What we need is a Palm upgrade that either supports additional, REAL memory.. or allows you to simply pop an external card on that contains a textbook, etc. and RUN THE PROGRAM OFF THE CARD.

First, your data is no more important than anyone else's data.

If your concern is with the way the m500/m505 manages SD memory, I suggest
you call the manufacturers of the applications you find important to see when
these applications will become SD aware (so you can offload your large
databases to SD), or are completely offloaded to SD (ie. a PDR on SD, etc.).

If nobody complains to the manufacturer, the manufacturer really has no reason
to do anything on SD media. You have to have consumer interest... make the
call, and encourage your colleagues to do the same.

If your application is SD aware, you can have your large databases existing
on SD while the application (typically small) on the Palm. I have yet to see
an actual Palm _application_ that is more than 1mb. I have seen plenty of
applications that have huge databases (like AvantGo). I would have serious
concerns if the _applications_ you use are 3-4mb large.

I suspect you'll be able to get third party RAM upgrades before long.

You still don't get it, do you?
The whole point of my post was that it's futile to upgrade to a device that offers inferior color screen quality & does not deliver on the promise of being able to run programs from an external drive. All this latest Palm does is let you *upload* programs that are archived on mini disks. If *you* want to pay $500 for this privilege, be my guest. I think it's a step in the right direction -- but at least acknowledge that this is NOT where we need to wind up.. especially for those of us who wish to be able to access textbooks and reference materials via our Palm devices. It's the Palm itself -- not the external drive/disk -- that's the limitation.

Two developers are currently rewriting or making patches to their programs so you will have free memory.
Lexidrugs of skyscape will have a fix in 4 - 6 weeks with better support of color. Also you will be able to run the program off the SD card or MMC; then you have their 5 minute medical consulatant. There is about 4 megs saved for our general programs.

2nd you have BibleReader from olivetree.com will have a fix in around 2 weeks so then you will have another 1.5 megs of memory available. We will be ok for awhile until the new ARM units arrive.

Happy Palming my friends!

Ok, ok , your medical data are importants...BUT STOP TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW, and read again all the usefull post:
In the palm there are 2 kind of files : database and application.
The applications are typically small (example of great readers : isilo, iambic reader,tiny sheet etc...), and are "runnable" , they will have to be copied from the SD to the internal RAM BUT , your important and large data (ebooks, dictionnary, etc...) ARE ONLY databases that can be read DIRECTLY WITHOUT COPYING from SD cards, with isilo, iambic reader, etc, if the developpers of these applications have added this functionnalities!....

You could have a 32Mb SD with a 32Mb database on it. The Reader Application simply needs to use the Palm API which only reads part of the database at one time, rather than loadinging it into "application" or device Ram. The SD is a hard disk.

-
kHiTeDev

The more I read about the M500/M505 external memory limitations, the more I'm glad that I bought the Sony N700C. With MSMount I can load 8-12 meg or more (readonly) databases on the Memory Stick. I had hoped that OS 4.0 would have supported this transparently, but from the various messages, it appears not ....

The databases can be read off the card only if the application can find its member databases. Right now, it doesn't work for any large multi-file reference application without modification. I tried it last night.

What people are missing the point on, is what if you have a large database that is used for both reference and to *write to*?

I understand that read-only from SD part. It's the *write-to* SD part that I think Palm has missed.

>>
What people are missing the point on, is what if you have a large database that is used for both reference and to *write to*? I understand that read-only from SD part. It's the *write-to* SD part that I think Palm has missed.
<<

The Palm VFS API fully supports *both* reading and writing to the cards (SD/MMC or CF, the API actually doesn't care). The application must simply be coded to write to the card.

It is interesting that TRG/HandEra's original FFS API for CF cards faced a similiar misconception (and sometimes still does). People think their API is read-only because the AutoCF extension allows only read-only databases, which is not the case. People now think Palm's API only allows read-only access because of the built-in launcher's ability to copy apps off the card and run them means card access is read-only, but it's not. Palm, Sony, and TRG/HandEra's APIs allow reading and writing to the external storage cards they support. The problem is few apps actually take advantage of these OS features.

I am from Hong Kong. I have some friends go to the launch of Palm m500/m505. They asked Palm Inc. about running program directly on SD/MMC, they said the program are first copied to RAM, however, it is not the main memory (8 MB) but on another chip, which is 4MB. That is, 2MB ROM, 8MB RAM + 4MB Buffer RAM for SD/MMC.

I was trying to find some evidence on this, however, I cannot. I just trust my friends' report.

My friends forgot to ask what about programs which is larger than 4MB such as dictionary...so it is still unknown.

Sorry for my poor English.

Take a look at this picture. Best I've seen.

http://www.brighthand.com/resources/m505/Image005.jpg

These are better. Closeup with sidelight on.
http://pencomputing.com/palm/stest/m505insideBbig.jpg
http://pencomputing.com/palm/stest/m505colorinsideBbig.jpg

the screens are often like thet when they're new. it goes away with time, my 500 was like that when I got it a week ago, and my 505 is like that now.

BTW: for protecting your screen, my trick is overhead transparencies. they work great, just cut them to the right size and stick 'em in the frame (under the lip of the case over the screen). It works as well, if not better, as those expensive write-rights, and it's cheaper, too!

-Pepper

the m505 tip. NO MORE SANDPAPER FEEL!

Huh?

In bed? I'd hate to see what kinky web clipping applications he's got on that thing.

Perhaps you should consider doing other things in bed besides diddling (oops, I mean "fiddling") with your Palm. This way, you'll get more life out of your toy and you'll also have a shot at having a life.

Ha HA!!

You know, anyone with time enough to write condescending comments on discussion boards like this one probably doesn't have much of a life himself.

You're absolutely right. The screen on my new 505 is almost identical to the screen on my iPaq...it's just a matter of getting used to a color reflective screen.

I remember when the first iPaq's were shipping. Everyone had a problem with how dim it looked without the sidelight. But you know what? A few months later, almost everyone agreeed that the iPaq's screen is about the best of any PPC out there...yes, I know how vibrant the indoor viewing of the Casio, Prism, and IIIc is.

Trust me on this...you'll learn to completely love this screen. It is so functional. It almost looks monochrome without the backlight in a lot of cases, but you have the option of showing off those 16-bit color photos in true color when you want.

Only use the sidelight (frontlight) when you need it, and watch how long your new color handheld's battery goes...on and on. The iPaq goes 10-12 hours without the sidelight, easy; and that's with heavy multimedia games and normal use. My bet is that the m505 will go AT LEAST that amount with a mixture of sidelight/no sidelight.

Your comparison between the iPaq and m505 is flawed. Although both use the same technology, and the iPaq screen is indeed very nice, that is BECAUSE it has a much higher resolution than the m505 screen.

No, the comparison is not "flawed". The comparison is made on screens...not resolution. I think most PDA users know the increased resolution the iPaq offers.

In low light situations without the sidelight on, the iPaq has the same dim, almost unreadable, appearance the m505 has in the same situation. In bright light, they both perform great without the sidelight on.

That's the comparison...we're not talking resolution.

my friend has an Ipaq, and I showed him my m505 this morning. he drooled (left a nice wet splocsh on my screen). he said he loved my screen and liked the poor resolution more. said it made it look "crisper". I don't find resolution important, personally.

Later,
-Pepper

What are you talking about?? c'mon

The better the resolution the better the screen, period.

I think that the m505s' screen is adequate, but we will see higher resolution screens within the next few years when technology makes it possible. If it was possible to have the iPaq screen in an m505, without any additional battery drain OMG.

Yes, what are you talking about? A low resolution screen is better quality than a high resolution screen? TOTALLY unheard of...what a big joke. Then why don't you run your PC at 640 x 480 all the time?

The people at my office have 21 inch screens and they still use 640x480. They claim that the larger text is easier on their eyes. I personally like 1600x1200 on my 21 inch monitor.

Are these people in your office sales droids? Anyone using a 21 monitor at 640x480 resolution ... hmmm ... all I can say is they are a perfect waste of skin...

I own both an ipaq and the 505. To be blunt, as much as I love my 505 (and the fact that the palm platform is just far superior) the ipaq screen in much better. Brighter, more control as to the brightness. The palm screen I'm getting used to but it does not blunt my general disappointment every time I turn it on and have to squint. I'm sure I will come to like it in time, but they need to rethink their screen and improve it on the next go around. I gave up my Palm IIIc for the 505 and I have longed for the sharpness of the unit. But my wife now has it and is in love with the IIIc.

Yes, that's stated right in Palm's official m505 FAQ, I read it as well.

and I am not offended at all. I learned to adapt w/ my old palm pro. i find left handed users at more of a convience think about it: less distance to the grafitti area (text) and apps/menu buttons. The clock feature is also closer for us too! and w/ older models the power button was on the lower left side making it much easier to press w/ the fourth finger on your right hand while holding it. on the new models, it's MUCH easier to put the stylus in and hit power at the same time!

Think about it: us left hand-ed-ers are much better off than you like to believe!

-Pepper

Thanks, I missed that in the FAQ, obviously. Here's what it says:

> Why are the left side rail and the rail where the
> stylus fits two different sizes?

> An internal component design required that the
> left rail be smaller than the right rail on the
> m500/505 handhelds.

Still kind of vague, though. Maybe Dave Design will take an m505 apart, too, and I'll get to see the internal design for myself.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

I agree spend the extra $50 and get the M505. I bet Palm will reduce the price of the M500 very soon. No comparsion to the M505 (I returned the M500 today and have the M505) and it is nifity and techie! Morningstar1844

How'd you manage to scam a free one?

I might be 13, but my parents own a computer store. I'm our PDA expert and we're palm authorized resellers. palm held a seminar in Itasca (IL) a week ago and I went. EVERYBODY who went got a free Vx, and they gave away 3 VIIx and 3 m500 and A TON of accesories. I was lucky and won an m500

-Pepper

Dude, you are the the luckiest techy teen ever. I'm 16 and I can tell you right now that your scenario is pretty sweet.

Later man.

yeah, it also helps that i am a girl. for some reason people are more willing to give me stuff!!!

Just wait until you're older.

i'm just waitin' . . .

Also the Sony only uses a 256 color screen vs 65k colors of the m505. (as mentioned in a Palm Infocenter article)

when it comes to the sony the trade of for the palm its worth it. Sony does not upgrade, exchange anything, plus other accesories are few and expensive. think about it....

Huh? What are you talking about? If you want to compare the Clie to the m505 please compare to attributes of the units, don't go on a rant and critize the Clie just because you don't like the company.

Sony is a pretty good company, IMHO. They make quality stuff.

The Wall Street Journal has a report on the Clie:

http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html

They also have a report on the m505:

http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20010329.html

Any way you could look at it, the screen of the m505 is causing major concerns.

He wasn't criticizing SONY, he was highlighting an important fact...SONY are very reluctant to exchange units and peripherals are all but non-existant. These are important points to bear in mind as well as the fact that sony uses OS3.5 and not 4.0

The screen seems to be the only decider...its all a matter of personal taste...oh yes, don't worry about the backlight burning out...they have an estimated life of 100,000 hours...thats over 11 years!! Your m505 will be an antique before the light burns out!

The M505 display is much less than I expected. It is dim and the contrast is very poor. Even with the sidebar light on I am disappointed. I would be slow to recommend the M505 over the IIIc to most people, especially those wanting to play games such as Simcity,etc...I not satisfied with my new M505's display, but hopefully I can get "used" to it.

I don't currently own an m505--just checked out the display model for a while at my local Fry's--but I tend to disagree with the "naysaying" about the screen. Yes, I would agree that the colors appear "muted." But the overall brightness is comparable to the Ipaq, based on what I've seen of it. I think it's a quality display, especially considering its flexibility regarding lighting conditions.

Personally, I'm waiting for the new Sony model for comparison. And I'd like to see how the new HandEra 330 hits me with improved resolution and soft graffiti minus color. I figure that the prospect of spending $350+ merits this kind of patience, research, and comparison.

I would predict that Palm does 2 things between now and June: 1)tweaks the display a bit once they get feedback from early-adopters, and 2)lowers the price on the 505 about the time the new CLIE hits the market. If I'm right, my patience will really pay off.

Wow, I'd hate to have to deal with stores like that! The local Staples policy is they take it back if you're not happy with it, PERIOD! I had to return one of the early reflective color Compaq Aero's for dust particles and they didn't hassle me at all! As for the digitizer on the IIIc perhaps you've never seen a good one, mine works as well as the 3 other Palm's that I've owned (1000, Professional & IIIe)I guess I should feel fortunate to own a IIIc that works flawlessly; believe it or not, they exist!

my 500 has a chip in the screen (i told them it came that way . . .) and they're willing to replace it free when you send it in

Any of the Super Stores will replace anything within the 14 day period. Palm is partially responsible for us returning the M500. If that would have been available first. I would started out with color and would have been completely happy! Morningstar1844 again!

I think I am gonna return my m505 today, I am so sad because it is SO perfect except for the one pixel. I am terrified I will give it up and get another with more problems of a worse variety and by the time I figure it out there won't be any more m505's for sale! Hahaha. Oh well, I love this little unit so I need to get one that doesn't have a stuck pixel...

I finally exchanged my unit and the new m505 I got is perfect but has some suprising differences. I think I also found a flaw in the OS that arrises after a hard reset on the m505 so check it out in a post further down this page....

If you are going to get a Pocket PC, get an iPaq. I've never met anyone who had a Casio who much liked it.

The only ipaq's offered are either too expensive ie the 3600 or arent color ie 3100. a correctin to your post - the pocket pcs rez is higher than the m505's

Basically because you want a small, color organizer like the Palm OS offers. Not a miniature boom-box/video center that happens to have calendar and addressbook functions.

I think Jeff Kirvin's column this week will enlighten you.

See http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/column010430.htm

I'd also add:

1) Weight/form factor
(as much as I admire the speed and screen res of the iPaq, I destest its bulk and think the design is garish)

2) Ease of use
(Although PPC 3.0 is better than WinCE 2.0, PPC still has some way to go before making an appointment is as easy to do as with the native Palm DateBook)

As for comparing prices... well, I agree the prices are nuts. Too bad the HandEra will not cost $250, the m500 $300, the m505 $350, and the new Sony N710C $400. Those prices are more realistic, in my opinion.

Take a look at this long discussion. I'll bet it has a comment on where damn near every m505 is in the U.S. of A.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1862&MODE=FLAT

Are you in Tucson, there are an Office Depot there.
I am in Phoenix and there is none around.

I'm in Tucson, there are three Office Depots here but none of them have the M505. All the Office Depots in Phoenix closed for some reason.

I have the available for immediate shipment (877)746-7727.
David

Fry's electronics has lots of them (500s and 505s)
No extras yet though

That's not so dumb (gee, I could tell some stories...)

You need to load X-master or Hackmaster to run the Glowhack. I think TealPoint also has a hackmaster clone (tealhack?). Check palmgear.com for xmaster.

Even better: get EVPlugBase 1.1b1 for controlling your hacks.

set to 00/00

Works great.

If you don't want to use the "hacks" you can download "easyview". It does the same thing, w/o requiring "hackmaster" or "ev..". You can download it at:

www.palmix.itil.com

Hey, which version of Easyview should I install for an m505?

Palm III (Palm OS ver 3.0, 3.0.1, 3.3)

or

Palm V (Palm OS ver 3.1)

I do.. and it doesn't.. the left channel is too narrow. It will fit in the right channel, but you lose your stylus holder.. also, the case doesn't quite close all the way.. about 1 mm shy.

Thanks for the response...but maybe I need to clarify my question. I was talking about the Titanium sliding hard case from Rhinoskin. The case does not have a rail to fit in the unit, you just kind of set the palm inside it. I was just wondering if anybody had one out there and had tried it. I don't want to shell out another hundred bucks for one of those cases if I can help it.

In the RhinoSkin official discussion forums, the moderator said that none of the hard cases will fit the 500 or 505.

Discussion forums?

Could you please let me know where these are? I would be interested in seeing them.

TIA

Yes, the 505 does fit into a rhinoskin slider case. Note that the fit is not exact. 505 can fall out of the case if you have the unit faced down when the slider cover is open.

Well I just bought an import version of the Gameboy advance and if the palm m505's screen is anything like that then i'm sold. Yes, the Gameboy Advance screen is dim in low lighting but in bright lighting like in the sun the colors are vibrant. And I am too waiting for the Palm m505 here in southern california.

You cant compare the 505's screen with a gameboy.. the original gameboy color = 160x140 pixels 8 bit.. so a lower quality as the palm 505.. the advance gameboy is:

240x160 resolution

40.8mm x 61.2mm screen size

32,768 possible colors

511 simultaneous colors in character mode; 32,768 simultaneous colors in bitmap mode

Don't compare the two devices.. they are totally not equel...

All I wanted to know about was a image visibility comparison of the two, Gameboy Color and M505.

Is the M505 brighter than the Gameboy Color in the same lighting conditions ? (Regardless of the 16 or 32 bit color system)

yes. i've got them both, and put simply: I'd rather play games on my 505 then gameboy! (I love my new palm's screen, those rumors really had me worried for a bit there. go check it out, it's neat)

-Pepper

youre right, it is a IIIe...(thats why its blurred) the 505 has to be compared with a IIImonochrome otherwise the screen will not looked better...I canceled my palm.. Hoped that the bad screen was in the prototype only... now you have 160x160 pixel with poor screen quality.. who wants to pay for that ?? I am going to buy a Ipaq today... high res screen, great colors, and stylish...

Basing a choice between the iPaq and the m505 based only on the screen is silly.

They are *very* different devices that suit different needs....

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi

d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados

You are correct and I apologize for the slip up. I have changed the article.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

One other thing: How soon do you think you can wheedle a new m505-compatible PalmPix out of Kodak to add to the review?!

Glad you like the review. I'm making a list of all these questions and I'll try to answer them in a followup article next week.

I'm getting a demo PalmPix to review next week, too. Note, they are not going on sale next week; Kodak's PR firm is loaning me one.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

Ed,

Do you know what the new PalmPixs might be going for when they are realeased?
Does Kodak have a timeframe for their release? Thanks.

Bill

--
Bill Lehecka
http://www.oldmatador.com/letterman/

Sounds like a HACK someone is going to come up with...

AlarmMaster - Create and edit alarms
DateBk4 - Assign custom alarms to appointments

Would it be possible to create a hack for this? Anyone know? This would solve quite a few problems w/ the display...I would like to determine the brightness....I'd pay good cash for a hack that would enable this as I think others would too.

Umm... the reason there is no brightness setting is because this is a reflective TFT. Unlike an active TFT, which the Palm IIIC and laptop computers have, which require a backlight, the reflective TFT depends on ambient light to light up the display, with only the sidelight for situations that are too dark. That's the whole reason for the reflective TFT - it uses FAR less power than an active TFT

The fact the screen is reflective has NOTHING to do with not supporting different brightness levels. iPAQ's support multiple brightness levels. I think you are getting mixed up with contrast control which the iPAQ also doesn't support. Not sure if this is because it is a reflective screen or that this is also a Sony manufactured screen and that lack of functionality is particular to that manufacturer. Anyone know?

Looks like Palm only supports one brightness setting to conserve power. iPAQ on brightest sidelight setting sucks power like you wouldn't believe, but given the choice of choosing this myself and being forced to use something that supposedly is only half as bright as an iPAQ on it's lowest brightness setting...

Surely a hack will be available to allow more advanced users to choose which ratio of brightness/power drain they prefer.

Also I had an OS problem with the Hungary model (which I have NOT tried to duplicate with the USA model, I assume it will also have the problem) that is IMHO pretty big. When I got the unit out of the box and went to the HotSync application on the Palm, I could pick the various choices available such as Cradle, IR to PC, Modem, etc. but after I did a HARD RESET all those options are NO LONGER present in the HotSync application but you can recreate them yourself (which is VERY confusing if you have never used a Palm before, which of course is not the case with me hahaha, I love 'em) by selecting "new" under connections. If you attempt to HotSync after a hard reset and you haven't "created" a new profile it leads to a reset each and every time that can only be done with the reset button in back. Needless to say I expect Palm will need to fix this...

Could you explain in greater detail what you mean by the Hungary model having sidelight imperfections....I have a Hungary model and would like to check my unit. Thanks!

Ok a few more details on the USA vs. Hungary m505 differences.

The m505 from Hungary I had yesterday... first look at the very edges of the screen with the sidelight on. Just barely, barely past the edge of the last pixels. If the edge is a black dark line when view from straight above (from the side the sidelight of course is visible) then it is perfect (like my USA model.) My Hungary model has small "nicks" in the edging beyond the last row of pixels that let some sidelighting bleed upwards showing what looked like a bright dot (I am REALLY nitpicking here, I would never have a *problem* keeping that unit if it weren't for the stuck pixel.)

ALSO and this is intresting... I think my USA m505 may have a plastic back. As I noted above the back has a different style of printing on it from the CE/SD etc. labels on the Hungary m505 and it feels barely warmer than the front which some says indicates plastic. Also the color MAY barely be different from front to back. I could care less if the back on mine is plastic as the rest of the unit is perfect and better than the m505 from Hungary I had yesterday but is there a way I can test the back to see if it is plastic?

most plastics do not conduct electricity. try to complete a simple DC light bulb circuit on both sides. if the front works and the back doesn't then you know the back is plastic. hope this helps.

On my Hungarian model, I notice that if I tilt the unit upward (so that the SD slot is in view) and look down onto the backlit screen, there is a large 'shadow' or unlit region in the lower left hand corner as compared to the lower right hand corner. This dark band extends back (in a virtual sense) into the screen.

Anyone else see this, or is this a flaw?

just look @ the accesoie clips & universal connector. if they have black plastic around them (like mine) your's is metal. if not (my 500) it is plastic.

-Pepper

any way to tell which one you buy from the outside box (ie when still at the store?)

A small white sticker with a barcode is placed on the box on the right hand side where the other barcodes are. It says Handheld Assembled in Hungary. There is a similar one on the bubble wrap that encloses the unit inside.

If I understand it correctly, with the MemorySafe you would have to manually copy the app on to the Palm, run it, then manually delete it. With the SD card, you just tap on the app and everything else is taken care of for you.

The same thing happens (the app is run from RAM), but the difference is who does the work, you or the OS.

---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter

Of course you can work directly off the SD cards, unlike Sony's memory sticks. You can execute programs but if the programs access data, the programs have to be written so that they are "SD Card aware". It it up to the software developers to write code that uses the SD cards.

Wait a sec, in the review doesn't he say that "it just pretends to work of the SD Card"? Like the
previous comment, the info has to be copied to RAM and then deleted? Of course its done
automatically which is nicer than Memory safe. Also, the memory safe does have to be manually
copied.

OUCH! The poor fellow! That's what happens when you don't RTM! It was in the PDFs we all saw several weeks back.

The poor fellow was me...
I had e-mailed ed from work. Did it in the bus
going to work.

BIIG bummer...
(I have to admit I am one of those pretend to know it
all gadget geeks that thinks he doesn't need to read the manual...;-(

The good news is I got it replaced immediately. And my
soul is in peace.

I though I should warn others of this.

Thanks ed for posting my embarassment..

but it wasn't mine. office depot had an m500 out on demo and I did that to theirs. i realized then i'd broken it, so i didn't make the same mistake with mine

Is the dummy card supposed to just slide out? I know you're supposed to press in and it pops out, and than seems to work. I just checked this today on my US unit and it doesn't seem to be retained at all. Is it broken? I worry because I left it out and someone was playing with it whan I wasn't watching. I'll try to get a card to try it out tomorrow.

OK, I went and got a 16MB card today - look slike the dummy card lacks the retention notch that the actual cards have - the 16MB card seems to be held in. Whew! I was worried I either had a defective unit or someone had forced the slot.

hey guys, i just broke my SD slot, but i figured out a way to fix it if you can't return the unit. use a paper clip, cut out a small piece of metal, then straighten out a long piece to push the bottom of the slot. when you see the gap open fill it in with the small piece of metal. this way the spring would not be released, and now you have a better design than the original. note: this take a lot of patient and skills but i managed to fix it in one night. good luck!!!

mo

I use Launcer III 2.1 w/o problems, the
only minor irritant is that the battery
life indicator / memory icon refreshes
itself every few seconds.

Doesn't see them at all

EXACTLY. I just finished reading the threads on this page and was astonished to see how many people mixed up screen and image quality. I guess it's an easy mistake to make since we've all grown so used to getting excellent screen quality from our PCs and Macs (I mean, how many TRULY bad mainstream CRT monitors are there on the markets? We have flat screens and even flatter screens aplenty, with vibrant colors and high refresh rates).

Since we're no longer as concerned about the screen quality, some of us have propably forgotten the fact that screen and image quality are different animals altogether. The only clear items left for comparison are resolution and amount of colors.

Screen characteristics which are meaningful to the end user consist of aperture grille pitch (if that's the correct term - affects wether you see those lines between pixels or not), performance in different lighting conditions (does the display wash or "black out" in sunlight, etc) and physical screen size (the smaller the screen, the harder the contents are to read).

Image characteristics which are meaningful to the end user include resolution (the higher the resolution, the more content you can display) and color range (the more colors can be displayed.. well.. the more colors you can see).

And make no mistake: with some clever thinking you can make a majority of software titles look as good on a 256 color display as on a display with more colors. The only real applications which can suffer a lot from the lower amount of colors are image editing or viewing software, and the second category which CAN in some cases suffer from it are certain games, so what does that leave out? Other games, word processors, sheet programs, map software, banking applications, etc, etc. They can all look really great even with 256 colors.

When it comes to PDA device screen and color / resolution, I'd go for an excellent screen first, resolution second and color third. That's my opinion, anyway.

Ok ok ok ... I'm 'wrong'. I just love the nice sharp smooth fonts that come with practically every standard Palm app when used on my N700C in high resolution mode. I guess if I had 65K colors, those old, cute, chunky Palm fonts would look much better than my 256 color super sharp clean N700C fonts ... Naaahhhh. I think I'll just 'put up' with my nicer looking fonts which are much easier to read. I hope you have fun with your quaint chunky fonts.

OK - how is the Sony Clie size wise...? Size is a concern if you really use these things as tools Vs toys...don't be smart - just tell me how much bulkier the Sony is to use Vs the m505?

PS- Im in Denver if you want to grab it locally..

You mean the screen looks like you "painted a water color picture on your concrete garage floor"? - I heard someone using this description for the new M505 color screen....

Although I feel "HORRIFIC" is a bit overstated,I do feel that the M505 display is much less than I expected. It is dim and the contrast is very poor. Even with the sidebar light on I am disappointed. I would be slow to recommend the M505 over the IIIc to most people, especially those wanting to play games such as Simcity,etc...I not satisfied with my new M505 after my initial 40 hours of ownership, maybe I can get "used" to it.

I had my friend pick one up for me in NYC from RCS and ship it.
I got it by 7:06am :)

The screen is absolutely fine. I think there is an ugly trend going on where
people think that "brightest" means the best. The brightest screens always
draw the most attention -- people always seem to gravitate towards them,
like when you go into a Circuit City and look at TVs. However, the truth is,
brightness is not the end all of judging screens. Too much brightness is a
bad thing!

Let's just say this... the m505 screen looks fine. Compared to the
IIIc and the Prism, the screen looks very dull -- however, here's a perfect
example where brightness isn't everything. The IIIc and Prism screens are
SO BRIGHT that they create a lot of eye fatigue. Coupled with the lower
resolution, this makes the "black grid" effect very difficult to endure for
prolonged periods of time.

In an office setting, with overhead flourescent lights, the m505 screen is at
the very least as usable as the Palm V screen. There is certainly a lot more
contrast thanks to the addition of color. At certain angles, when not enough
light is able to be reflected, the m505 needs the sidelight on.

With the sidelight on, it is neither too bright, nor too dark. There is no
question about visibility when the light is on. After using it all day in the
office, I have no question that indoors, I won't need the sidelight. Unless
your office is a dungeon, you probably won't either. What you will need to do
is "angle" your Palm a little differently to get some reflected light. I can
certainly stare at the m505 for much longer periods of time than I can with
a Prism.

And one more thing to point out is that there is the inevitable comparison
between the IPAQ and the m505. Well, when the sidelight is on, the IPAQ
is brighter. With the backlight off, I can happily say both units perform
identically. The technology is the same. The only difference is that the
IPAQ has a much brighter sidelight.

I don't think people are getting defective units. I think they're judging based
on brightest is best.

-Al

Did some of us get defective screens? Are there two different versions maybe? USA made vs. Hungary made? Or some other difference....my screen seems pretty dim to me and my unit was manufactured in Hungary. I can't wait until the units are on display so that I can compare mine to the US version and then make a decision on a return. If I can get 1/50th more brightness from a different unit I'd be all over it!