Comments on: Sony Clié N710C appearing in retail stores

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/cliepicture.html

and

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/710review.html

Stephen

http://clie.nxtiak.com

505 with backlight on has similiar battery life then the other PPC. But without backlight, the 505 has over TWICE the battery life.

This is exactly the point! 505 does not need backlight on all the time (not in direct sunlight and in good indoor light) therefore the battery life is much better then PPC in the practical world.

I love my 505 and only use backlight when in poor lighting. In the office the screen is fine without the backlight.

I would also say that the 505 with the backlight on in a dark room (e.g. movie theater) is 1000% better then the reverse backlight of the Palm Vx.

I believe there were four in stock when I first walked past the shelf to go look at the demo model; when I came back to pick up a box there were three left (including the one I took), then when I walked past 30 minutes later before getting in the checkout line, the shelf was bare :-)

They do have it on display for those who want to compare the m505 screen and the Clie screen. I must admit, I've been playing with mine for several hours and it rocks. :)

I pre-ordered the m505 (the night before they were announced); I cancelled when they started showing up in the stores and I saw first-hand how dim the screen was. I went to see the new Clie on Saturday, not intending to buy it, just to look... and ended up plunking down my money and taking one home (this, after comparing the "floor model" extensively against the m505 sitting next to it; I had a friend with me, she wanted to know where the brightness control was on the m505).

The Clie is smaller than my old Palm IIIx (a teensy bit shorter, 3/8 inch narrower, the same thickness), and has by far the best screen ever seen on a PalmOS handheld. I'm running with the backlight at about 25 percent -- at 100 percent, you could use it as a flashlight. At 320x320, the screen is simply breathtaking, and at 160x160, there is _no_ trace of the dreaded "black grid".

If the m505 had the Clie's backlight (I'm not talking about the hi-res screen, mind you, just the bright, adjustable, backlight), I would have gotten the m505 instead (weeks ago) -- I *like* the m505, it's sleek and sexy, and will no doubt be more widely supported. But, to me, the whole point of color is to make the information on the screen easier to read, and I found the m505's dim screen to be an impediment, not a benefit.

Folks, it's time to stop all the bickering; wait until you have a chance to compare the Clie and m505 side-by-side in a store somewhere, and *then* decide which is best for *you*.

What features are you talking about?

Using a program called HRCapt (DA Program)
located at:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/fairy/chimer...OthersPalm.html
(it's in japanese),
I made several screen captures of my N710C Clie in various modes and pictures.
THe program captures Hi resolution as well as low, i've posted the pictures at:

http://members.nbci.com/nxt/clie710...0screencap.html

and yes, this IS a REAL screen capture from n710c

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PEG/PEG-N700C/music.html

It would depend on the frame rate but I have several mpeg files and a 50minute 17 sec mpeg is 489.6 MB. Good luck getting that on a memorystick.

Matt

The American 710 plays ATRAC3 (bleah!) or MP3, and it can store MP3s on the cheaper, non-encrypted blue sticks.

I hope Circuit City will take it back if I don't like it.

Any thoughts?

Sony Pros:
- Brighter screen and better fonts - not as good as I thought based on what I have read but it is better. (at least to my 44 yr old eyes)I can read it without reading glasses - a big plus.
- bigger but not too big- narrower and shorter than a IIIc. Only slightly taller than the 505 but narrower. It is almost as thick as the IIIc. (the exact diminsions did not matter to me if it fits in my pocket). After carrying it around in my pocket for three days, I can live with it.
- slightly slower than a 505 - don't know why
- built in screen display items are dimmer than 505 - like lines on calendar but entries with larger fonts are easier to read.
- Wordsmith, almost unreadable to me without reading glasses on the 505, is fine on the Sony without reading glasses.
- cradle fit is nicer - at least it does not sound like you are breaking something when you take it on and off like the 505.
- can play MP3s even on the older memory sticks. I bought a 64meg stick yesterday and it works fine. Apparently you only need the MagicGate sticks if you create the MP3s with the Sony software. I did not think I would like that, but its fun to play with. A big plus is that you can use the audio software to move large files directly from the computer to the memory stick using transfer mode. Open audio software, select transfer and the stick appears as a drive in Explorer. This is a super nice feature. You need it for MP3s, but its nice for large data files too.
- Cost is more but equivalent when you consider the 8meg stick included and the fact that the Sony power cable can be detached from the cradle and used as a travel charger - a good idea for all Palm type computers (plus earphones and remote).
- Some accessories from b&w Sony fit the Color model - for example it uses the same travel kit that I bought at Compusa yesterday - a travel charger and cable without cradle.
- I can see it better in dim light and the typical office.

505 Pros:
Size
Finish
Feels like better quality construction but mine broke at 19 days old.
More accessories.

Tie:
So far the programs that work with the SD card also work with the memory stick (except PhotoSuite which probably will but I have not figured it out yet).

If the screens were the same, the 505 wins no question. Since the Sony has the better screen, I will take it for the time being.

BillW

Still too early to tell. The screen is clearly the winner here as far as resolution, displaying photos. The mp3 player is nice, although I probably will not use it. Concerned about the form factor, availability of a keyboard, Multimail working on this thing as well as other concerns.

Roy

I saw the music video with sound, well, its not that great, but for a small device is definately a step up, way up. This device made me think that my m505 was a mistake. Nothing I can do about that, burned all my money.

I like everything about this device over the m505.

It's thicker than an m505, but not as thick as a Visor Prism. And because of the reduced width, it's very pocketable.

Yes, its thicker than the 505, but its way thinner than Prism. Its in between. With the case on, m505 will be as thick as the Clie (with the flip cover on)

ON the other hand, the Clie is narrower, so it appears smaller, and it is thus very pocketable (in the pants pocket, not the shirt)

I see you enlarged a 160x160 pic to the size of the 320x320 pic for comparison, but can you do it the other way around please? Reduce the hi res to the same size as low res so they can be compared that way too.

Thanks again! Good work.

It may be fine for those who carry it from desk to meeting, to desk and home. But as a sales professional who lives with it - no way. People forget that is what Palm had in mind when it balanced the features of the device.

Just my opinion. To each his own.

I love how we always get of the subject ,turn things around and make it us against them .LOL =)This makes me laugh alot.

Very antertaining .

Thanx

Hey, two 3x5 cards would really dissapear in your pants pocket. Just carry a few of those around and quit whining.

And when you are holding a PDA, the important parameters are the width and height (where width is more important than height). Simple math for calulcating the length to fit into your palm

width for Clie is 7.1 in
width for M505 is 7.874 in
The difference is 0.774 in (Clie win)

thickness for Clie is 1.68 in
thickness for M505 is 1.27 in
The difference is .41 in (M505 win)

width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 10.46 in
width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 10.414 in

The difference is 0.046 in (M505 win).

If you calculate the perimeter

2*width + 2 * thickness for Clie is 17.56 in
2*width + 2 * thickness for M505 is 18.288 in

The difference is 0.728 in (Clie win).

Of course, volume wise, Clie is still a little larger, but it is not as what some people claimed it to be BULKIER, HEAVIER. Sounds like Clie is way too big but it is not.

Besides the weight difference is only 20 g, if you put an MP3 plyer in M505, see how much that gonna weight?

M505 is definitely a loser compared to Clie (except for the 20g weight differnce and slightly larger form factor), now many people have seen the amaing screen and have learned that the Clie width is actually much narrower than M505, the proud M505 owners are whining about the thickness and weight? And that is the only valuable thing left for M505?

He was just giving facts to support his claims of the CLie's size not speculations like everyone else

Sorry

If you're so insecure that you have to trash other peoples' choices to justify your own, I pity you.

(And as for the "PPC win" comment, under 10% markeshare is winning? Must have made that calculation on an original Pentium. :-)

(Now see, you've lowered me to your level.. :-)

Actually, I believe the biggest losers are all those people that are calling the Clie "too big to carry around", the Clie "is as big as am iPAQ" and "the Clie is twice as thick as the m505". These are obviously not true. I think the motives behind people who post these comments feels so threaten by the Clie because it's better than their m505.

Come-on people, it's a handheld!! I understand if you are posting a legitimate complaint, but purposely making false statements just because there's a better product?!?!? That's the definition of a loser!!

Now that the Clie is out, and people can compare them, the m505 holds its own against the Clie. Unless you want a brick sized MP3 player included, that is.

It is the Clie owners who now feel they have to justify their purchases, and will lash out against anyone who has something good to say about the m505.

Don't even start with the "its got a 320x320 screen..." arguement. Palm will integrate a high rez scrren into its future offerings when it feels that the processor can handle the higher resolution without slowing the hanheld down to a crawl. Plus they will give us high resolution AND 16 bit color in the future.

Actually, YOU are really searching....

The majority of the feedback from actual Clie N710C owners have been positive as are the reviews from creditable from major tech. news sources. So there's no need to justify the Clie.

There is, however, a need to justify why the hell did someone pay $450 for an m505, while for $50 more they could've gottenso much more.

Oh, by the way...the Clie has a hardware video accelerator that speeds the 320x320 resolution up. From people who have tested the Clie, they obtain a benchmark of 207%!!! That's the speed of a visor platinum. The benchmark of the m505 was benchmarked at around 150%. So not only does the Clie have 320x320 resolution, it's actually faster than the m505.

And...speaking of the new processor...did you read that the new ARM processor will have built-in memory stick compatibilty?

What difference does that make? Since it is the same OS but different versions, the benchmark 2.0 is compatible, that's all that matters. If look at the relative speed data on the benchmark, it listed both machines running Palm OS 3.2 and 3.5, aren't those different version of the same OS?

If users were able to adjust the brightness, then the battery life would suffer and folks would be unhappy with the results.

Let me answer your question with a question. Why do you think there is no contrast option? Do you think it was an oversight on Palm's part? Do you really think Palm "forgot" to put in an option which has been in all the other palms before this one? I don't think so.
So if they didn't forget, and they didn't include it, the answer that best fits the situation is they set it for the optimal combination of battery life and screen brightness.

If you disagree with me, why not ask Palm? I'm sure by now they have received calls from folks asking how to adjust the contrast.

I have dropped by Frys many times to look at different PDAs, everytime when people looked at m505, most of them tried to find the brightness control to see if they could make it brighter.

If Palm decided not to include the brightness adjustment because of the reason you mentioned, I guess that is a big mistake!!

The next version of the m505 may very well have a contrast control. It may also have a soft graffiti screen, 320x320 resolution and/or a better battery. And yes it would be due to customer demand. These are all hardware changes and some or all will probably be included in upcoming models. I don't think you will be seeing a contrast button in the current OS however.

Great idea, now the federal government should order all the lamp manufacturer to make a fix lamp so that the energy deficiency can be alleviated!

We are the premium mobile computing hardcopy magazine in Europe and would love to print your impression as manager at pepsico on the m505.

Please contact me directly:
Boris Michael von Luhovoy
publishing editor
Palmtop-pro magazine

bmv.luhovoy@nextra.at

for more information on us please visit:
www.palmtop-pro.com/index1.htm

(sorry folks - german only)

Please see also our story on the polarstern icebreaker & palm on:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=1923

As for Pepsi, could you PLEASE do something to make Diet Pepsi not taste so crappy? I hate it when restaurants give the "no coke, pepsi" line. :-)

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

I tested both in normal mode of BatteryBench( it runs 1 second
and only display for 9 seconds)

N700C
backlight off : 16 hours
backlight minimum: 10 hours
backlight maximum: 6 hours

m505
backlight off : 15 hours
backlight on : 6.5 hours

FYI
m100: 40 hours
HandEra 330: 36 hours

YAMADA Tatsushi
Hacker dude-san
http://simple-palm.com

that is with playing mp3 and front light on. without front light, it last 11 hours for playing MP3. I think for normal usage, it should be even longer.

No, but you can plug the 330 into the wall and run it for as long as you like.

Bob

The test results shown above are most probably conducted in a continuous mode e.g. running a program and measuring continuos until the battery is exhausted.
This puts on a battery an artificial (not a real world) drain. Thought there is no other standard to measure it has to be seen what ist is: As very rough comparing tool somehow probably ok or not (depends how you look at the data), it shows something but holds no water in real use as it reflects not the day to day PDA life.

Anyhow – the test as conducted here has probably some meaning, as there is no other known proper way to measure – even thought this does not reflect the real world performance.

In real world you flip the Palm open, look up your data and close down. This gives the battery the ability to recreate and gain when in off mode.

Our (out of the stomach and not 100% replicable) tests have shown, that the M500 runs up to about 21 hours in real world with light of – But that’s something widely depending on the individual users individual behaviour. So it is safe to say that the Palm has not only a very good real world performance but a superior one.

Like a RollsRoyce vendor answers a question to the horsepower of a Silvercloud with a disgusted but conclusive:

Enough power in any situation ... Sir'

Boris
Palmtop-pro Magazine
publishing editor
www.palmtop-pro.com

http://www.red-mercury.com/sixteen.html

Its just not feasible until a push-capable Palm, like the rumored m700, is available.

Just as good!!

I tried the Sony Clié N710C in the dark to see if the graffiti area was indeed lit, but is was NOT, and neither were the Home, Menu, Find or Calc areas. I found it impossible to write on the graffiti area in the darkness of the room while the mighty glow of the screen blinded me. Trying to find the "Brightness" button on the graffiti area was impossible too because it wasn't lit either.

While screen is bright, and sharp, but appears muddy and grey because of the bad CONTRAST setting. Too bad its not like the PPC's out on the market - like the HP 547 I bought last week - it of course has both Contrast and Brightness settings - something ANY color device SHOULD have. Your COLOR TV at home has a Contrast and Brightness adjustment, why not on these Palm OS handhelds????

Also point real quick if I may, the Sony Clié N710C is noticibly heavier than the other Palm PDA (minus the Prism of course), and if people are going to compare the m505 and the N710C, they should take into consideration the size of the two devices.

Its stands to reason that if the m505 had AS BIG a battery that the N710C uses, that the m505 would be AS BRIGHT and the battery life would last AS LONG as the Sony Clié N710C. Of course though, that would make the m505 AS BIG as the N710C, so what would be the point of having an m505 THAT BIG???? The m505 would loose its small sleak design. So that's the trade off.

After testing out the Sony Clié N710C, I have decided that I will be returning the Sony Clié N710C (like I did the HP 547). The Sony Clié N710C to me isn't worth the $537 (incld tax) I paid for it.

as for the price that u quoted. where was that. i have not see a 64mb mem stick for less that $80-$85.

and $78.99 for 64Mb at
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=sonmsa64a&svbname=31

and $82 for 64Mb at ecost.com

please show me some place where they sell 64Mb of SD card for $50, please get real, don't post any message if you have nothing to back you up with

I done know why i've been trying so hard to get one off Ebay !

I don't understand why people are so fixated on these minor details.

Let's talk about the major details:
1. increase resolution 320x320
2. no grid-lines
3. built-in multi-media/MP3 support
4. jog-dail for easy navigation with a back button
5. adjustable screen contrast/brightness
6. better smoother text
7. brighter, whiter screen
8. longer battery life
9. 8 MB internal RAM, 4MB flash ROM, and 8MB memory stick included
10. travel charger included

The Clie has ALL the above while the m505 lacks them, and in my opinion, the features listed above most than justify fewer colors and a 0.16" thickness.

By the way, the color depth in the m505 is useless because of the dim screen.

http://www.red-mercury.com/sixteen.html

Remember, not all of us want to listen to music and play games on our PDA's, for us it's a business tool.

It’s on the back cover of the June 1, 2001 Entertainment Weekly – not exactly a geek magazine.

They say it’s business tool because it runs the Palm OS. And it has entertainment features-it plays MP3’s and video clips.

I’m looking forward to getting my hands on one. –Just like a lot of other people.

I also hope that Sony can bring some add-on accessories to market soon too: wireless modem, folding keyboard, memory sticks with applications, etc.

*arrogant chuckles*

Did Palm advertise the m505 or m500 much?

Did Handspring advertise their products much?

I don't understand people like you, you post these ridiculous comments trying to trash a very good handheld. What's the matter? Did the Sony make your m505 look like crap? Are you afraid that Palm is going to get their butt kicked by SONY, HandEra, and Handspring?

Lets advertize so frustated masses can go to their local retailer just to be disapointed!!!!

What an idiot.

(not withstandng the fact that i can still use an SD card on top of that)...

ah, expandability....gotto love it

Handera330 user

Nobody wins with less choices, we all lose.

A 160x160, 16-bit color device has 25600 pixels and a range of 65536 colors. What do you need all those colors for?

An 8-bit color image, IF DITHERED WELL, can come very close to the quality of a 16-bit image in most cases.

Also, it was not too long ago that we were all playing 320x240 (or 320x200) DOS games in 8-bit VGA. (Kind of puts things in perspective, hm?) I never had any complaints about using a 256 color palette!

http://www.red-mercury.com/sixteen.html

Could it be?!

Motorola for those following recent news.

Is it normal? Can anybody tell me your battery life?