Comments on: Sony PEG-N610C and PEG-S320 Revealed

Sony has announced the N610C and S320. Neither one comes with the necessary hardware to play digital audio, though apparently Sony is going to release an audio adapter that can be added later that will give both these models the ability to play music.

The N610C appears to be much the same as the N710C, minus the audio playback, of course. It will cost $400, sports a 16-bit color screen, 33MHz Motorola Dragonball VZ processor, 8MB of RAM, and 4MB of flash memory. The big change is it will have Palm OS 4.0. SonyStyle shows it being available in silver and violet.

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I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 3:56:14 PM #
Looks like Sony is ready to start stomping all over the market. Behold the Beast. Hopefully, they'll keep innovating and keep costs down once they're a monopoly.

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 3:57:52 PM #
I can sense Palm and Handspring sinking lower and lower...

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:00:46 PM #
Is this the end of Palm?

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:07:26 PM #
I hope so. Palm (as a company) sucks and I have lost *all* brand loyalty to them that had developed over the past 4 years. Sony might as will develop their version of the core apps and offer the OS themselves.

Palm offers the market nothing anymore . . .

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:09:58 PM #
Innovate this: Palm OS 4.0, 16-bit Color, and vibrate alarm.

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:13:07 PM #
Hey, Palm did release new models: the Jordan Palms - hahaha

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:15:02 PM #
I can't tell you how tired I am on the endless discussion on whether Palm Inc. is doomed or not. They could be but could we possibly talk about something else for a while? For the past couple of weeks, about 80% of the comments on these boards have been about whether Palm is going to fail. I'm really, really bored with it. No one has really said anything new about it in a long time.

Look, Sony is going to introduce two new models! Can we talk about them for a while? Here's some other topics we could cover:

  • Will you buy one of these?
  • Will the cheap model have a plastic casing?
  • Will Sony discontinue the S300?
  • What will the audio player add-on cost?
Please, I'm begging you here.

RE: Sigh...
Karshikinpa @ 6/25/2001 4:32:13 PM #
The S300 has already been discontinued...

RE: Palm who?
Cheetah @ 6/25/2001 5:06:56 PM #
Yeah, Palm is such a lousy company. All they have done so far is open up a completely new market that many others had attempted to open, but failed.

I guess they also have dominated the new market by making the Palm OS 80% of the total market.

Oh yeah, they also have beaten Microsoft, despite their global monopoly and multi-gazillion dollar R&D and advertising budget.

Ah, one last thing, they have designed the best selling PDA to date in the Palm V/Vx, and then made improvements to add color, a expansion slot, and other enhancements.

Besides that, Palm is a lousy company that can't execute.

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 5:26:39 PM #
Best Buy took the handhelds out of the case and on display finally. Here's something I don't see reported regarding speed. Pressing the four application buttons in rapid succession I notice the Palm m505 is significantly faster than the New Clie so it seems the extra resolution came at the cost of slowing the thing down.

Little pauses get to you after awhile.

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 5:51:28 PM #
Little pauses can be eliminated with Afterburner.

RE: Sigh...
Ia3n @ 6/25/2001 6:32:29 PM #
"Innovate this: Palm OS 4.0, 16-bit Color, and vibrate alarm."

16-bit color was developed by Handspring. The vibrating alarm was developed by Handspring. VFS was developed by Sony. Let's see, Palm's part of OS 4..... an updated version of the Security app?

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 6:58:39 PM #
So, the specs finally came out. What are we looking at now? Let's just compare the differences:

Palm m505 vs. Sony Clié N610

Palm m505:
- Vibrates
- Sleek Look

Sony Clié N610:
- 320x320 resolution
- $50 cheaper
- Memory Stick
- Jog Dial
- Comes in silver and violet

Palm m105 vs. Sony Clié N320

Palm m105:
- Hard Casing
- Snap-on Faces

Sony Clié N320:
- Palm OS 4.0
- Memory Stick Expansion

Is it a clear win?

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 7:23:03 PM #
Got my m505 for $370... Can't beat the slim form factor as well...

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:32:44 PM #
After playing with my Clie N710C, the m505 felt fat in my palm!!

Clie is small and very comfortable to hold....

Palm never saw it coming. What will happen to them now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 1:30:43 AM #
>Innovate this: Palm OS 4.0, 16-bit Color, and vibrate alarm.

Actually, Palm "borrowed" the main advances in Palm OS 4 from Sony (VFS file system) and Handspring (color support). But yes, it looks like Palm managed to "innovate" the vibrating alarm all by themselves. Wow.

>Best Buy took the handhelds out of the case and on display finally. Here's something I don't see reported regarding speed. Pressing the four application
buttons in rapid succession I notice the Palm m505 is significantly faster than the New Clie so it seems the extra resolution came at the cost of slowing the thing down.

Odds are the Best Buy staff never bothered to install the CLIE's update that was designed to fix its initial speed issue.

>Little pauses can be eliminated with Afterburner.

Good one. (Wait state joke?)

RE: Sigh...
Ed @ 6/26/2001 9:42:07 AM #
> The S300 has already been discontinued...

The PEG-S300 has not been discontinued. It is still available for sale on the SonyStyle site. Frankly, I expect this to happen soon after the S320 hits the shelves, though. I also expect some serious discounts on the S300 because Sony can't hope to sell many of them for $300 when the improved replacement is $100 less. While it is true that the S300 comes with a MemStick and the S320 doesn't, I don't think that's worth the extra cost.

News Editor
Palm Infocenter

Gonna sell my Prism, buy a 610!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 4:54:08 PM #
Anybody wanna buy a used Prism?

RE: Sigh...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 8:11:12 PM #
how much

Any info on the price?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 3:56:34 PM #
... and when it will be released to the market?

RE: Any info on the price?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:14:01 PM #
I've heard late July/early August so expect around then. CDW was selling the S320 for around $190 and the 610C for around $390 so look for those two to compete with the lower-end and higher end Palms.

From where I see it, at around $390, the Clie effectively kills off all competition by the m50x series. It's priced exactly the same as a 500 and $50 cheaper than a 505 so why the hell would anyone in their right mind ever get the 500 or the 505?? Form factor may be the ONLY reason and not a good one as the Clie is a very small device.

On the bottom end, the Clie offers Memory Stick expansion whereas the m105 does not. It also offers a better and bigger screen, I'd assume, if it is around the same dimensions as its higher-priced siblings. Again, why on earth would anyone go for the Palm models at this price range?? If they release something at around the $299 range, it's goodbye all Palm OS devices. This is too good of a deal to even purchase any of the other devices. If I was Palm or Handspring, I'd be REAL worried right about now.

I guess if you're a worldwide billion-dollar corporation, you're gonna be able to take over some markets. Man, Sony came outta nowhere and dominated the gaming console market and now it looks like it's going to get a big piece of the PDA pie. I'm sure this translates eventually into more third-party accessories for my 710c!

RE: Any info on the price?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 11:12:25 PM #
Sony is smelling blood and is going in for the kill with their new Clie line. Palm is a fat, wounded walrus...

Really folks, how the hell are they (Palm) going to compete with that line-up. The 610C and the 710C have got the m505 trapped price wise. The 610C offers everything the m505 offers (Palm 4.0, 16-bit color) plus high res. at a cheaper price!! The 710C is the ultimate Palm and will compete with the m505 as well as the iPAQ.

Sony has quietly and strategically cover all of the handheld bases.

610C to compete with the m505, 710C competes with m505 and iPAQ, the S320 to compete with the m100's. Notice that Sony has made a handheld to compete with the most popular sellers.

Like Sony or not, you have to admire them for the innovations, their consumer awareness, and their boldness. It hard to imagine that this is only Sony's 2nd generation of Palm OS handhelds, and already they have establish themselves as a leader.

Palm WAS banking on their m50x series to save them finacially. Now with the Clie 610C and 710C along with the rumors of the new Visors...Palm's m50x's is quickly becoming.... obsolete.

RE: Any info on the price?
EdwardGreen @ 6/26/2001 4:27:01 AM #
I dont think so.

I think Sony an Palm are working rather closely at the moment...


RE: Any info on the price?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:06:07 AM #
Sony is working closely with Palm like a cat works closely with a mouse. Palm is screwed and I think everyone realizes it now. In a few hours you will hear just how bad the sales from the m50x series have been. Palm will announce MAJOR price cuts and will be cutting hundreds of staff in the next few weeks.

RE: Any info on the price?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/1/2001 6:12:09 PM # has the 610 for $337.

S320 screen resolution?

ardiri @ 6/25/2001 3:58:58 PM #
160x160 or 320x320? :) not much said in this area.

// az
RE: S320 screen resolution?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:16:24 PM #
I'm suppose it's 320x320 hence the model number. :)

RE: S320 screen resolution?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:20:44 PM #
Good point. Wow, the Palm m105 or Visor Deluxe priced at the same point can't even compare if the Sony really offers 320x320 on a monochrome.

RE: S320 screen resolution?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 4:37:47 PM #
Yeah, 320x320 with memory expansion at $190! Oh boy..

RE: S320 screen resolution?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 6:37:29 PM #
RE: S320 screen resolution?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 6:52:29 PM #
The PEG-S320's resolution is 160x160 according to sony's website.

RE: S320 screen resolution?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:36:59 PM #
320*320 resolution at $190? Looks like Palm is in deep trouble!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 2:57:38 PM #
Sony sure is going to beat the crap out of palm. The S320 also has a rechargeable battery according to their website!!!

Nearing perfection

David Arnstein @ 6/25/2001 4:47:45 PM #
If accessories such as a Startac cable become available, then the N610 will be nearly perfect!

One other feature I'd like in my next PDA: 16 MB of memory. I don't like putzing around with slow, inconvenient secondary memory. I find this totally inconsistent with the Palm "simplicity" concept. But ever since I hooked my Palm Vx to the 'net, I've been short on memory.

RE: Nearing perfection
EdwardGreen @ 6/25/2001 4:52:54 PM #
I agree. My Blazer Cache fills up faster than a thing that fills up quite fast.

And running at 320x320 with PalmScape a Cache is going to get swallowed by images.


RE: Nearing perfection
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:43:07 PM #

What if it is THINNER

Islander @ 6/25/2001 5:35:40 PM #
Not exactly an impossibility. What if it is that 2nd chip is what requires the 710 to be thicker than the original peg 300? The picture still does not reveal the thickness of these newer models.

RE: What if it is THINNER
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:16:29 PM #
Well duhhh the article here which you are posting on lists the 320 as .1 inches thinner than the color versions. The thing I want to know is why it says the 320 will have a black and white display while the picture clearly shows it is the old green and black.

RE: What if it is THINNER
Ed @ 6/25/2001 8:29:09 PM #
Sorry, you need to cut some of the early posters some slack. I've been updating this one article with additional info as it became available.

News Editor
Palm Infocenter
RE: What if it is THINNER
Ed @ 6/25/2001 8:43:56 PM #
> The thing I want to know is why it says the 320 will have a
> black and white display while the picture clearly shows it is the old green and black.

We've always referred to the green and black screens as being black and white or occasionally monochrome.

News Editor
Palm Infocenter

There goes Palm Inc.

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 5:46:20 PM #
I have the feeling Palm Inc. will be absorbed into Sony sooner or later. The amount of Sony's invesment in the handheld is just unbelievable.

The only real question left will be, what become of Handpring. I hope they survived. I kinda like that little company, tho' their design is kinda girlish.

heh.... can't have everything.

RE: There goes Palm Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 7:51:08 PM #
I can tell you that, for sure, they don't invest in Europe.

Clie's are releasing in U.S, Japan, Singapore. Releasing new models on new models.

But we, here, in Europe, are still waiting for only ONE of them to be released or announced. They don't even consent to give a release date, except, "maybe" end of year.

At this point, I'm beginning to suspect Soney of some strange new kind of techno-racism.

I can tell you that, if someone release here something equivalent (maybe Handspring?) before Sony I will sure buy it just to fustigate Sony's attitude of simply ignoring 320 millions peoples.

I hate the thinking of theses big companies. :-)


RE: There goes Palm Inc.
phac @ 6/25/2001 9:15:13 PM #
order a clie online duh they ship to you europeans i suppose

RE: There goes Palm Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:19:21 PM #
The cost of doing business in the EC may be too high to drop new models over there so quickly. Just speculating....

RE: There goes Palm Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 12:03:33 AM #
girlish??? what the heck makes handspring's designs
"girlish"? what does that MEAN??

RE: There goes Palm Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 6:08:31 AM #
To prove how interested sony appear to be in europe with their handhelds, the s300 which has now been discontinued has just hit the shops here in the UK.

RE: There goes Palm Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 2:53:01 PM #
God Bless UK

RE: There goes Palm Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 8:19:42 PM #
Why do you think that handsprings designs are girlish. Have they released a pink palm...NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

RE: There goes Palm Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 9:31:00 PM #
sonystyle online doesn't ship to europe, heck they don't even ship to Canada, it's right next door too!

OS4 for N710c?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 5:53:25 PM #
Looks like N610C has OS4 since it support 16bit color. I wonder whether Sony will release an upgrade for N710C. I just bought N710c for a week and I want 16bit color!

RE: OS4 for N710c?
Karshikinpa @ 6/25/2001 6:43:30 PM #
my thoughts exactly, releasing an os 4.0 upgrade soon is what sony needs to do to prove that they are committed to the end user.

OS4.0 has nothing to do with the 16 bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/6/2001 10:17:23 AM #
Prism supports 16 bit even with OS3.5

Info on SonyStyle

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 6:36:10 PM #
The Sony style website has the 610 and 320 listed at The 320 is only 160X160, and the 610 has OS 4.0 and 65k color.

RE: Info on SonyStyle
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 7:01:09 PM #
If that picture is any indication, then one advantage of removing the MP3 player is that the jog dial can be returned to the more natural position at the top left edge, instead of being shifted down to make room for the headphone/remote control jack.

RE: Info on SonyStyle
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 7:11:30 PM #
Darn, I guess I was wrong. This picture clearly shows that the jog dial and back button are in the same place on the 610 series as they are on the 710 models. Only the 3xx series appears to have it in the 'right' place.

Who's going to kick Palm out?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 6:45:11 PM #
If Palm doesn't bring out a m3xx series and a newly revised Palm VII, they will be left out of the race. Sure, they have problems and need to dump either the hardware or software divisions to suceed. It will be interesting to hear what Carl has to say tomorrow at PCExpo. We may all be wrong right now, but the fact of the matter is Palm needs to change their plans. A Michael Jordan m100 is not going to help them! :)

How does that help the enterprise market they want to capture? I hope the m3xx series has color too, so we don't need to pay a high premium for a color device.

check out the sony web site

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 6:59:59 PM #

Ah yes ... Available in August

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 7:15:05 PM #
Here we go again. Maybe I can "accidentally" crack my m505's screen before then. (Or "accidentally" put it up for sale on eBay.)

A 4.0 update has to be coming for 710

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:02:45 PM #
the 610 is 16bit w/no mp3 and the 710 is 8bit w/mp3. the only other difference is the os. People have said/proved that the 710 can use 16bit but it needs os 4. I'll bet the 4.0 update is out within 2 weeks of today

4.0 update

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:12:39 PM #
I just talked to a sony rep. who said they are currently testing the 4 upgrade and when it comes out the 710 will support 16bit color. So its just a matter of time.

RE: 4.0 update
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:19:12 PM #
I hope this is true.

What??? A non-color Palm OS PDA??? A mid-priced PDA???

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:21:27 PM #
If I remember correctly, a number of folks posted that non-color and/or mid-price range PDA’s were dead. There was no way I was going to spend half a grand on a PDA, Palm or otherwise. I bet a lot of people are going to jump on the Sony just because it is affordable, has expansion capabilities and isn’t too hard on the eyes, ala Palm 10x and HandEra. The real winner of the affordable, monochrome market will be whoever comes out with a high-resolution, soft graffiti, model for around $200 - $250, with or without expansion slots.

RE: What??? A non-color Palm OS PDA??? A mid-priced PDA???
eke @ 6/25/2001 10:45:29 PM #
Your last sentence is golden. Who do you think will do it?

RE: What??? A non-color Palm OS PDA??? A mid-priced PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:14:29 AM #
Dunno. I would think HandEra could do something like this, especially since they have a head start on soft graffiti and high-res monochrome, which are the only true recent advancements in the original Palm concept, but to save money on the device they would probably have to leave out expansion capabilities, which goes against their original philosophy. Ditto for Handspring. Palm COULD do it, but it would not make marketing sense (not that it has stopped them in the past) for them or other Palm OS PDA makers to include soft graffiti on a low-end device before offering it on their top of line models. Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’d trade high-res and soft-graf (and affordability) for an expansion slot any day. Until then, I’m going to make do with my “Frankenstein” Palm - Palm Personal screen, Palm III case, Palm IIIxe internals.

Where's the outrage?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:28:27 PM #
Where is the outrage at the pre-release announcement. Palm was vilified on these boards for announcing the m50x series a month before they shipped and now Sony is announcing even earlier, yet not one post about it.

RE: Where's the outrage?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:59:43 PM #
The reason Palm was "villified" for it is because they held way too much inventory and was suffering badly because of it. Sony's 710c sales target different segments than the 610 or the 320. They have positioned a product in the upper range, mid range, and lower price ranges and thus are priced competitively. Palm let the cat out of the bag when it still had too many Palm Vx's out there.

RE: Where's the outrage?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:02:35 PM #
dunno, i never saw a problem with preannouncing products, unless you're 4 years late like daikatana. heck i prefer an official announcement over wild rumors. :)

RE: Where's the outrage?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:10:54 PM #
The Palm early announcement critics were pointing out that Palm was killing sales of existing units with a preanouncement. This apparently happened as sales did drop. Sony only has one model whose sales might suffer and they have announced it is discontinued so apparently they are not worried about it.

RE: Where's the outrage?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:26:00 PM #
>>>>and they have announced it is discontinued so apparently they are not worried

Are you saying that they have announced a discount on the 710?

RE: Where's the outrage?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:11:37 PM #
he meant the S300, which is discontinued
the 710 is a different class, and the 610/320 are there to compliment their palm os lineup, not to replace the 710 as was with palm

RE: Where's the outrage?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 11:16:07 PM #
The responses that the outrage was because of the issues it created with inventory sound a bit revisionist. All one has to do is go back and read those posts and find that no one was mentioning inventory.

RE: Where's the outrage?
mengshi @ 6/27/2001 5:08:07 AM #
Doesn't it seem strange that Handspring is being let off easily in these discussions? They have some of the bulkiest units around with a very little innovations as well. The SpringBoard is next to useless when it comes to support for expansion memory and the lack of VFS will make them obsolete pretty soon.

Applications from Memory?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:28:31 PM #
Does anyone know if the Clie will run programs from the memory stick?

RE: Applications from Memory?
MacBirdie @ 6/25/2001 9:18:42 PM #
With Palm OS 4 on board it can just like m500 series.
Afterall, in 4.0, Palm implemented the VFS code part made by Sony in their 3.5.2S .

RE: Applications from Memory?
MacBirdie @ 6/25/2001 9:22:33 PM #
or was it TRG's enhancement... never mind - it can, period :)

RE: Applications from Memory?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:42:27 PM #
VFS is from Sony and was introduced on the 300 a year ago. The TRG/HandEra version is very different (and better in some ways).

Lack of Memory Stick

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:39:49 PM #
I know this may just be a minor gripe, but has anyone else gotten the impression from Sony's website that neither of these new models come with a Memory Stick. It seems to me like this is one way that Sony is cutting the cost to make the models more competitive.

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:55:32 PM #
UH, LOOK AGAIN on the website AND the pictures, it sure looks like a memory stick to me, stuck in the top of the devices. What else could that be ???

Sheesh, talk about being shortsighted...

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 8:59:01 PM #
Nope. States on the website that it comes with a Mem Stick.

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:07:19 PM #
No it doesn't. It says in multiple places that Memory Stick Media are sold separately, and in the specs under memory it only says 4 meg flash and 8 meg RAM for the 610 models, whereas it says 4 meg flash, 8 meg ram, 8 meg Memory Stick for the 710.

But an 8 meg memory stick is only $30 from Sony, so unless you need the MP3 player it looks like the 610 is the way to go.

It'll be interesting to see what the responses are on the part of Handspring and Palm. New models? Cheaper m505?

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 9:12:34 PM #
PTN had a picture of Claudia Schiffer next to their Vx. Did she come in the package too, McFly?

The Sony website says MEDIA SOLD SEPARATELY for the 610, and the "package contents" do NOT list a MS.

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:01:25 PM #
Sometimes you guys do not stop amaizing me.

All models of clie since S300 (which was the first) HAVE MEMORY stick media!!!!

They ALL HAVE memory sticks. Go to the site see the specs!!

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:05:08 PM #

There IS a Memory Stick included.

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:08:36 PM #
Hey, they all support memory sticks but the new models don't come with them in the box. They are sold separately.

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
rldunn @ 6/25/2001 10:19:06 PM #
Read it for yourself. Memory Stick media sold separately.

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:20:36 PM #
Here is a better link -- a side by side comparison of the 2 new models plus th 710. Notice the 'Memory' row:

RE: Lack of Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:54:47 PM #
Well, I glad to hear that the MP3 player part isn't the reason the 710 is $100 more than the 610.

It comes in WHAT COLOR???

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:09:29 PM #

Violet? As if the silver model with all that chrome wasn't flashy enough. Sony is obviously going for the college/HS student and the "who cares, everyone already knows I'm a geek" markets.

Most of us are in business. We have to look mature and professional. I don't need a flashy toy.

Sony will NOT beat palm out of the business market with these "color Gameboy's with MP3." And that is the biggest market.

You folks sounding the alarm are full of it (or maybe you're geeks!)

I wouldn't date ya'.


RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:23:26 PM #
First, I remember HP came out with an even striking violet Jornada and girl, it was sleek (and professionals used them)! No student could afford a jornada, nor a $399 palm.

Second, what's your argument? you want something black? Is the Palm Vx/m505 not professional for u too?

Third, i hope you have read that the new models don't have the mp3 player. Compared with the Palm models, if the Sony aren't cheaper, they are of the same price. How can Palm compete?

Fourth, if you think people posting here are geeks, then that makes you a geek too. I wouldn't date you too. ;)


RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 10:54:38 PM #
Those of us in the business market would love to have a Palm PDA that's as easy to read as a PPC. Forget the multimedia stunts, we want smooth, clean-looking fonts! And that's what the Clie delivers...

Besides, the Clie is no flashier than an Ipaq. And we know how well *that's* doing in the business market...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 11:37:23 PM #
I actually have a GameBoyColor with an mp3 module/cartridge...its great! if they could make a palmOS cartridge...

RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2001 11:52:17 PM #

I love all your posts - esp. the Gameboy Palm OS module.

I bought an M505. It is much less flashy than a Clie and the size does make a difference to me. I want color for use with ActionNames and to carry some photos. That's it.

True the Clie would give me better resolution. But for me, it just isn't worth it. Palm Vx/M505 scream professional and serious. That is important to me as well.

Now if only that m505x high res. rumor were true....


RE: violet
Cheetah @ 6/26/2001 12:10:05 AM #
Sony seems to like the violet/purple colors. Look at their VIAO line of PCs.

RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
CarlJ @ 6/26/2001 1:56:18 AM #
"Palm Vx/M505 scream professional and serious."

So, basically, you're using the Palm as a fashion accessory? As a prop? I'm glad I work somewhere where people are more interested in my abilities than in my fashion sense.

My 710C is roughly the same height and thickness of my old IIIx, and 3/8" narrower, and has easily the best screen of any Palm device. Had the 610C come out a couple months before the 710C, rather than the other way 'round, I would have happily bought the 610C instead, as I saw no real need for the MP3 player -- though now that I have it I must admit the MP3 player is more entertaining than I had expected.

RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 9:12:03 AM #

I am glad you like you Clie. You are abviously in the "everyone already thinks I am a geek" catagory and I am pleased that you are comfortable. (Obviously I am just teasing you a little - I am clearly a geek as well. However, maybe I am a little more of a closet geek.)

Anyway. My point is that I wouldn't carry a shiny metalic portfolio into a board room meeting. I would be better suited with a nice coach leather pad. The sames theory holds true for cloths, hair, cars and PDAs. It is ok to be flashy sometimes, but not alwasy. A PDA to many of us means business and I don't want to look like I am carrying a Gameboy into a business meeeting. That's not a fashion statement.

Besides, there are several other reasons I didn't buy the clie 710c and wouldn't buy a 610c either (weight, size, expansion, OS, etc...) To each his own.



RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:56:17 AM #

I am happy for you to like m505 since it fits perfect for your needs. Now, let us get back to our Clies!!!


You will be my bride
Quik_Fix @ 6/26/2001 3:18:11 PM #

Will you and your m505 marry me and my IIIc? I know we're old fashioned, but I'm business casual, and it's matte black, and we look great in a sedan...

You sound like what i need in a geeky woman, and my palm would love to beam yours :-)

Business info only, of course.


RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 8:34:20 PM #
Sure I will mary you and your IIIC. I would love to "beam" with you.


RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
vienta @ 6/27/2001 12:13:32 AM #
I personally love the violet color, and appreciate a choice of color. Personally, I would rather have a pda that reflected my tastes than one that had a boring "professional" look.

RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
CarlJ @ 6/27/2001 2:38:59 AM #

... You are obviously in the "everyone already thinks I am a geek" category and I am pleased that you are comfortable.

Yeah, well, Programmer / SysAdmin / Unix Guru / Geek... fear my 'leet skillz, and all that :-P

It is ok to be flashy sometimes, but not always. A PDA to many of us means business and I don't want to look like I am carrying a Gameboy into a business meeting. That's not a fashion statement.

I can see where you're coming from, though the sharp delineation between the two devices continues to irk me -- if the Clie were wrapped in a string of Christmas lights and cheerily bleeping cheesy arcade game music, I would hearily agree. As it is, though, they're just two roughly comparable shiny little boxes that are helping one do one's job more effectively -- if someone is focusing that closely on the little box rather than the ideas being presented by the person using the little box, something's wrong with the picture.

Besides, there are several other reasons I didn't buy the clie 710c and wouldn't buy a 610c either (weight, size, expansion, OS, etc...) To each his own.

Or her own, as the case may be :-) Indeed, had the m505 shipped with a significantly brighter screen, I would be using one today (I'd pre-ordered the day they were announced). I like the m505's form factor, I think it's a bit more rugged, I'd prefer SD over MS, and I'd be happier being "closer to the source" (the m505 being likely to get more attention from developers, accessory makers, etc.). Then again, I wouldn't trade all those factors for the Clie's sharp, bright, screen. Ah well, we all decide which compromises are most important to us.

P.S. My good friend spends a lot of time in meetings, representing our department to the campus, making use of her upgraded PalmPilot Pro; she's looking to replace it, thought the m505 was cool, but wants something more colorful; I'm guessing she'll love the violet 610C :-)

RE: It comes in WHAT COLOR???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/28/2001 1:51:34 PM #
purple is pretty

Comments on new Sony

Cheetah @ 6/26/2001 12:13:38 AM #
A couple of my random comments regarding the new Sony 610c, none of which are very insightful or important:

1. the 610c will sell well, and is a real threat to the 505 IMHO. It meets my main complaint which was I didn't want MP3 so didn't want the extra baggage. The higher resolution screen would also be a plus for displaying pictures (something the 505 does poorly due to resolution). I would be interested in getting a better understanding of the high res screen's impact on speed of the unit and battery life.

2. Overall design still goes to the Palm V/505, of course style is mostly personal taste. I never liked the boxy Volvos, and I don't like the square Sonys. I don't even like the square silk screened buttons.

3. I like having at least 2 colors to choose from, although this is an inventory issue. I guess I could always get a black IBM workpad.

4. Sony really is the only Palm OS vendor to date that can match the marketing and R&D budget of the Compaqs and HPs of the world. I believe that Sony makes the Palm world stronger, and Palm is lucky to have them in their camp.

5. Palm's licensing strategy is beginning to work, as there is innovation, greater market share, and license revenue from their approach. Apple has never been more than a niche player as they have refused to give up hardware sales for these benefits.

6. So far, I still prefer my 505, but the 610c is making me look up.

7. Sony has the WORST naming convention in the Palm market! I think that Handspring wins in this area.

RE: Comments on new Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 1:48:23 AM #
Try holding a Clie for a month, you will be urprised at how small it feel when you hold it and how 'wide' the m505 is.

4MB of Flash RAM

TypeMRT @ 6/26/2001 3:10:46 AM #
Someone please tell my why Sony, in their infinite wisdom, had the forethought to give the 710C only 2 MB of Flash versus 4MB in the 610C? They knew that OS 4.0 would require more than 2MB for all of the bells & whistles to be included. I paid for a device that is supposedly cutting edge, expandable, and upgradeable, except for the OS that is already available to others.

RE: 4MB of Flash RAM
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 3:23:15 AM #
N710C has 4M of flash. Look at the specs below:

What about the memory stick?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 9:05:18 AM #
I have a more general question with regards to the memory stick.
I like the Sony line and this makes it better but what about the functionality, cost and proprietary nature of the memory stick? I know from a couple of reviews of the 710 that there are work arounds and patches to get ms technology to do more but I get tired of the extra buying and downloading.

If any of you are at the expo ask Sony...When will the ms be true plug and play, when can apps be run directly off it and what type of third party development is going on?

RE: What about the memory stick?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 12:47:07 PM #
Your expo questions are right on (sounds like I'm from the 60's). Such great screen technology should also include soft graffiti and landscape viewing before I will upgrade.

Can the editors of this site perhaps excert some pull to get answers about:
-plug & play use of apps on large capacity mem sticks
-wireless modems, cell phones, & other cool gadgets
-soft graffiti & landscape viewing


RE: What about the memory stick?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/27/2001 4:57:48 AM #
As for cost, Memory Sticks are actually down near what MMC cards cost.

Pricegrabber pulls up $70 64 meg MMC cards (of various off brand typeS), and $80 64 meg Sony Memory Sticks...not bad. I also noticed Lexar is making Memory Sticks now, so hopefully we'll see the price drop even more.


USB Cradle

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 10:14:48 AM #
If I dont have any USB ports on my computer, am I out of luck? Or does Sony have a serial cradle available?


RE: USB Cradle
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 10:22:53 AM #
You can buy a USB PCI card for $20. Backing up 8MB via serial would take upwards of 20 minutes, if it didn't crash.

RE: USB Cradle
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:12:21 AM #
The cradle for the PEG-S300 work with the N710C & I'm assuming the new models. Its a little bit of a tight fit but it works.

S320's low price

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 10:39:23 AM #
I just noticed that the 320 does not ship with a cradle...yet another way to keep the price down (although the N610 does). Here's some speculation, though:

The 320's accessory list includes both a serial and a USB cradle, while the 610 can only use a USB cradle (at least if the Sony web site is anything to go by). Do you think the 320 will use the same hardware as the 300, thereby having the transmission speed of a serial connection despute the use of USB? If so, the 610 looks like it is even better value (has a cradle, higher transfer speed, high res, and colour).

Just an aside: anyone who thinks Palm of Handspring or anyone else is out for the count has no concept of how the market works. Those who slam the Edge have probably never tried it: the unit is built a whole lot more solidly than any other PDA out there. It's solid screen feels a lot better, for example. There's a niche that will pay for that, just as there is a niche that will pay for the HandEra 330, the M505, or any other PDA. Palm may have a troubling quarter or two ahead of it, but to count them out is ridiculous. Palm is still the company that your average user knows about...remember, those of us reading this board are the minority of PDA consumers.

RE: S320's low price
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 10:49:56 AM #
Before I get flamed, I just noticed that the front comparison page states that the 320 comes with a cradle. If you check out the included accessories, though, it states that the 320 only includes a cable.

Also, I chose to avoid mention of the M505's colour screen above. Anyone replying to this thread, please do not start another rediculous colour argument...

RE: S320's low price
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:05:55 AM #
I love the Edge, but I'm now on my 4th one in as many months. The Edge is solid, but it is not reliable in my experience.

Does the 620 have brightness control?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:43:09 AM #
I could see that there is a brightness icon on the 620 picture (just like the 710). I hope Sony has fixed this 'm50x' issue. If they had, why can't Palm? Weird isn't it?

RE: Does the 610 have brightness control?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:45:49 AM #
Oops. I mean 610. Sorry.

Decisions, Decisions!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:49:01 AM #
Now my only problem is convincing my mom that I really NEED the color display and high resolution of the 610 instead of the 320, although the both look amazing, and I would settle for either one.

RE: Decisions, Decisions!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 11:55:29 AM #
Here's one excuse: 'Mom, I will be able to carry your picture and won't be homesick." :)

RE: Decisions, Decisions!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 12:09:24 PM #
Quit being picky before you end up with a blister-pack m100 from Tar-shey!!!

Varied opinions...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 9:07:54 AM #
Do we have Palm killers here? That's to be seen. There are several things that need to be taken into consideration besides the devices specifications. Certainly there's potential if Sony plays their cards right - but the question is whether Sony will do what's necessary to make these machines Palm killers.

Firstly, Sony needs to convince the general non-tech market that their Palm devices are better than a Palm-branded Palm. That's the first challenge of any of the Palm licensees, and it's a major one. There are people who still refer to Palms (and sometimes to Pocket PC's) as "Palm Pilots", and that name has been done away with for years. (Don't laugh - I know a few.) Palm has made a name for itself that provides significant confidence to the non-tech public looking to make a purchase. Sony is still mainly synonymous with audio. They'll have to build a brand awareness in their PDA technology before they can begin to think about overtaking Palm.

Secondly, Sony will need to ensure that their distribution channels make the devices as pervasive as Palm's. Palm has done well to make their own devices as in-your-face as possible. And the third party branding programmes are not such a bad idea. And if you think that the only third-party branded Palms are the Schiffer and the Jordan, think again. Check out for another third-party branded example. These programmes may contribute small sales numbers, but they make the Palm-branded Palm a more widely available Palm, and a Palm that reaches the consumer at his particular point of need (or want).

From a marketing standpoint, Sony has a lot of homework to do. Handspring had to do it with their "Visor Is" campaign, just to make a name for itself. Sony, despite the power behind their name, will have to do something similar to signal their major entry to the PDA market.

On the devices themselves, the 610C is a fabulous device, and among techies, will give the M505 some trouble. The device's look and style is unmistakeably Sony - it's flashy and it's heavily branded (Look at me! I'm from Sony!) - although this may not sit well with some people. The technology is cutting edge - 65k 320x320 colour screen, Palm OS 4.0, USB HotSync, lithium polymer batteries (Significant!), etc. And it's all obtainable at a great price.

One has to wonder though what market they're aiming for with the 610C. Sony has reduced the feature set by removing the audio capabilities of the 710C, making thie 610C less of a strictly multimedia device. Multimedia software is still bundled in gMovie and PictureGear, but no Office type software is included in the package. Palm bundles Office-to-Go. Handera and Handspring are including their own partners' Office suites. Whither Sony? Of course it could be argued that these could be a matter of personal taste and purchased later, but that adds 40 to 60 bucks for word processing and spreadsheet capability.

The S320 is also a nice device. However, if it comes with the older, greener screen, it is not as compelling a purchase as the M105, against which it competes.

Additionally, the older screen probably means a glass digitizer layer, as opposed to the plastic digitizer that appears on all monochrome M-series Palms. The plastic digitizer makes the device much more rugged from the outset. I've seen posts in Palminfocenter that attest to the abuse that the M10x takes.

The question remains, does Sony want to create a Palm killer, or just a very competitive device?

If Sony creates and markets a device that kills off Palm Corporation entirely, they could buy Palm at a bargain basement price. Dependent on when it happens if it does, Sony will have to pay the U.S. Government the tax dollars that 3Com didn't when Palm was spun off as a separate company. One of the conditions of the spin-off was that the purchaser would pay all of the taxes due if Palm was purchased by a third party before a specified period of time.

If Sony were to create and successfully market a Palm killer, and Palm dies, then the Palm OS will die if someone doesn't buy the software division or the patents and continue development. Does Sony then migrate all of their work to PocketPC or to Linux? Sony has invested too much in the Palm OS bite the hand that feeds it.

On another matter, on Palm's innovation, let's look at some of the minor enhancements that have come to the core Palm OS over the years:

1) Tap on the titlebar to activate the menu - formerly a hack

2) Combined appointment/to do screen in the Datebook application - a feature found in most third party datebook application before it was incorporated in the OS

3) Pop-up clock application - formerly a hack

4) Notepad application - remember Diddlebug?

5) Flashing alarm - remember Talelight? Not widely used, but clearly useful.

Palm clearly utilises user and partner innovation to build and tweak features in their OS and devices. The aim seems to be to bring the core feature set nearer to perfection. TRG debuted add-on storage with CF, and Sony has preferred their memory stick. Palm themselves have selected smaller and potentially cheaper SD/MMC, building on innovation that their partners have done already.

In the M50x series, Palm has decided to stick with the tried, tested and true Palm V form factor and make it better. You can't fault them for that decision. They've done enough revolutionary things in the product line by changing the connector *again*.

Finally, to the commentor who indicated that the M50x will feel wide in the palm of the hand when compared with the Sony, the reason that most pagers are wide as opposed to long was to make them easier to hold. Which is a more natural pose for the hand - flat out or with the fingers arched? A posture with the device resting against the flesh of the palm along the line of the thumb, with the fingertips providing a gentle grip along the other edge is more natural to hold a flat device than a more cupped hand. The device rests better and the hand is more relaxed. The concave curve on either side of the m50x, and the M10x as well, also makes for a more natural grip them the straight edges on most other PDA's. Palm has done their homework.

Will Sony do theirs?

RE: Varied opinions...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 3:22:05 PM #
very good comments

RE: Varied opinions...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 4:48:56 PM #
Very Very impressive!

The best comment of this news I have seen so far.

RE: Varied opinions...
gnaihc @ 6/26/2001 4:54:22 PM #
Good comments. But don't forget SONY is not a company that only working on PDA like Palm. They have a lot of other products. Yes, they should do their homework. But I think you should give them more time as they need to focus on so many things.

- N700c is the best -

VIBE alarm?!?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 4:50:42 PM #
I want vibrating alarms in the Clie's. I'd rather have a vibrating clie 610 than a Palm m5xx .

RE: VIBE alarm?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/3/2001 1:24:18 PM #
i'd rather have a blinking LED or power light or proprietary light on a corner or summat.
wish list item: the silent alarm light from the visor edge onto the Clié.
sounds like that's the coolest thing about the visor edge, after slim metallic form. one reviewer talks about the clear bumper around the side giving the light a little glow space. Drat - sounds like a very good design idea for a very subtle & useful silent alarm.

buuuttt.. the edge just ain't a colour, 320x2, slim, purple Clié 610.

heh.. purple. :D

RE: VIBE alarm?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/3/2001 1:29:45 PM #
people with heart conditions can't safely use vibrating alarms on personal electronics

S320 vs. M500?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 5:44:43 PM #
Everyone seems to be comparing the S320 to the M105, but why is this? From what I can tell the S320 seems to compare pretty favorably against the (much) more expensive M500 as well, can anyone shed any light on this for me? (pardon me if this is a stupid question, I'm kinda new to the world of Palm, considering making my first purchase)

+ slightly smaller (.26 ounces)
= uses mmc/sm cards instead of ms (preference)
- 200 bucks more expensive!

they seem to be equivalent in almost every other area (speed, memory, battery type, infrared, usb). Am I missing something?

The comparison against the M105 seems skewed as it seems to me (again pardon me if I'm making some stupid mistake) that the M105 is clearly inferior, using OS 3.5, no memory expandability, serial, bigger, cheap plastic case, non-upgradeable Flash memory, uses AAA instead of Lithium Polymer. So given this I don't understand why everyone is comparing the S320 against the M105 instead of the M500, which square up much more evenly.

Of course the M500 costs twice as much as the S320, but given that they have compareable features, it seems silly to compare the S320 against the much inferior but similarly priced M105......

RE: S320 vs. M500?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2001 6:59:20 PM #
Your point is a very good one, my friend.
Most people seem to compare S320 / M105 (where, should the S320 hold up to its promise, it clearly clearly wins).
It does in fact make more sense to compare S320 / M500.

Then however, the original Clie was more often compared to the IIIxe than to the Vx.
People apparently feel that the Form Factor was closer to the IIIxe.

I actually was considering both a Vx and Clie (S300) and decided for the latter, because
the form factor was similary enough (I feel) and the Clie was much cheaper.

I would in fact buy (Should my trusted S300 die) a S320 over both M105 and M500.

Mac support?

nickgold @ 6/27/2001 3:25:24 AM #
Is there any reason why that independent software program that allows you to use Clies on Macs (sorry, can't remember the name) wouldn't work with the 610C? I so want one of these things. Time to see if my CC company will up my credit limit? ;)

RE: Mac support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/28/2001 11:37:40 AM #
Check out this site
there is a discussion on this; apparently the 610 will sync directly with the Mac without need of any other software. Something to do with Palm OS 4.0?

7.31.2001 or prior ship date

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/2/2001 7:06:08 PM #
Aloha All,
The SonyStyle site now reports a ship date of July 31 or earlier. They are also offering same-as-cash if its paid off by the end of October.

Think I might have to get myself one. Anyone want a slightly used M505?


Case Color

sonicxracer @ 7/10/2001 2:39:54 AM #
Why does the Sony site list the "Satin Silver" as a web exclusive? Does this mean that if you want to buy this model (610) in the stores you have to get that God Awful Purple color? I want the silver one but don't wanna order online!

RE: Case Color
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/16/2001 12:31:48 PM #
I have also been looking for the silver model of the 610 and they still don't have it in stores that I've checked: Comp USA, Wiz, Best Buy, Circuit City. If you know a store that sells the silver, let us know.

In stores....

randomguy1900 @ 8/8/2001 5:55:30 PM #
I went to my local Best buy on sunday and I purchased a N610c...they also had the s320 I got the last n610c and the sales person said that they were now on back order untill september 21.....I also saw that it is also on and a few other web sites...but if you want one of these and when you see it you will get out there now before they are all gone...also Sony isnt even selling this they are still accepting pre orders on both units. Just thought that I would pass on this info

RE: In stores....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/1/2002 6:26:03 PM #
I have been trying to get a 710 cradle for 3 months now!! Sony keeps saying they are on backorder! What kind of crookedness are they up to?? I was just told they may be discontiniued!!?? How can they discontiue something that they NEVER had??? When I first got my 710C they did'nt have any. I wonder where they are getting the cradles for the new units they sell??

If you have any info PLEASE let me know via . . .
HOTMAIL IS WITH A "ONE" ABOVE!! CHANGE TO "L" TO REACH ME!! The "L" in hotmail is written with a "1" above. You must replace with an "L" inorder for your mail to be sent.

RE: In stores....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/1/2002 7:58:11 PM #
Get the one for the N760. Its the same thing.

N610 Serial Cradle

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 4:35:11 PM #
Does any one know if the Sony Clie N610c has a serial port or connection for serial to be able to hot sync? I have the usb connection at home, but for work we can only use serial. If you have any information on what I can use please email me at
Thank you



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