Comments on: OS 4.0 Upgrade Coming Soon to A Palm Near You

In late Spring, Palm Inc. began shipping the first handhelds with OS 4.0, the m500 series. Since then, many users have asked when an upgrade would be available for older models. This is not a simple question. Each manufacturer has to create a separate version that works for its own handhelds. The fact that the manufacturers have added important new features to their models and their models only makes this process even more complicated. Then these versions need to be tested and approved by Palm Inc. before they can be released.
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Kyocera?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 2:54:35 PM #
When will kyocera offer 4.0 upgrade for the smartphone?

Sony N610C on sale in Japan

mikecane @ 7/19/2001 2:55:34 PM #
FYI: The N610C went on sale in Japan just this week -- with OS4 and a 65K color screen.

RE: Sony N610C on sale in Japan
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 6:30:40 PM #
Are you sure it's 610? I thought they are calling it 600.

Sony N600C Review
EdwardGreen @ 7/19/2001 8:38:13 PM #
ZDNet Japan have reviewed the n600c.

The Best page to look at is

http://world.altavista.com/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zdnet.co.jp%2Fmobile%2Fpalm%



-
kHiTeDev

RE: Sony N610C on sale in Japan
EdwardGreen @ 7/19/2001 8:39:27 PM #
Sorry That link doesn't work. You will have to feed

http://www.zdnet.co.jp/mobile/palm/sp/0107clie/

Into babelfish yourselves.

-
kHiTeDev

RE: Sony N610C on sale in Japan
mikecane @ 7/20/2001 9:05:10 AM #
600/610 -- whatever. We all know it's the same machine!

Thanks PIc

CKMOOSE @ 7/19/2001 2:59:13 PM #
I just wanted to say "Thanks".
This info is interesting and well reported.
I appreciate your in depth and level headed reporting. This goes for most if not all of the articles I've read here.
PIc is and will remain my favorite place for Palm news.

With a charge?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 3:19:36 PM #
Hmm, charging won't work. Give it a week and bootleg sties will have copies of the ROM and the tool to upload them to the units.

Palm and Sony, give it for free and palm owners will support you for being pro-consumer.

RE: With a charge?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 3:46:42 PM #
Unfortunately the US Justice department ruled last year, prior to the release of OS 3.5, that the practice of Palm giving OS upgrades for free was anti-competitive. Therefore, Palm has to charge for the upgrades. I find this counter-intuative and rarely understand the justice department thinking on anything. I mean someone still needs to explain to me how Microsoft is anticompetitive when I just download Netscape, but Ticketmaster, when I have no other option to purchase concert tickets from, isn't.

RE: With a charge?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 3:56:00 PM #
Anti-competitive to whom? Is this a Handspring issue because they have unflashable RAMs on their units?



RE: With a charge?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 4:07:30 PM #
Palm can charge for it, no problem.

1) They already charge for 3.5, and people buy that even though some people posted it to warez sites.

2) Hell, charging for it might even stop some of the losers who are currently installing 4.0 for free. They claim it's perfectly legal because Palm isn't losing money on it. Well, no, not yet.

3) A business should never throw up its arms in disgust and say, oh well, everybody's just going to steal it anyway, might as well not release it or give it for free. That's insane.

4) Some extra money is better than no extra money.

5) OS 4.0 has more features than this article mentions. The autolock and multiple alarm features alone are extremely handy. You can also do Graffiti while the virtual keyboard is onscreen. OS 4.0 also is rumored to enhance the speed even on older processors.

RE: With a charge?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 4:34:50 PM #
well if it hadn't for the department of justice, palm will be giving it for free (you still think that they're selling it for profit?).

-> "Some extra money is better than no extra money."
Can't believe you are saying this when palm monopolize the pda business. please don't treat Palm as a typical software firm where they withhold software 'features' for the next version to get extra.

well, it seems like 'pro-consumer' is not in your vocabulary -- maybe 'greed' is.



Palm Will Be Charging
Ed @ 7/19/2001 5:24:55 PM #
I just heard from a Palm representative and she confirmed that they will be charging for this upgrade but haven't yet decided how much. I updated the article to reflect this.

---
News Editor
Palm Infocenter
4.0 is faster
bcombee @ 7/19/2001 7:04:17 PM #
The rumors are true. When I talked with Palm representatives at PalmSource last year, they said that they were rewriting a lot of the user interface code to make the OS feel more responsive. The changes are noticable, especially on a Palm IIIc which had fairly slow drawing code in 3.5.

RE: With a charge?
EdwardGreen @ 7/19/2001 8:16:27 PM #
My Palm 3c running PalmOS 4 (which I have under a developer license) seems quicker on redraws, and the notify function (the so called flashing asterisk of doom) ss a usefull tool; think of it as a a todo manager for tasks to be completed in one day. I don't use the security functions.

Of course the main lump of OS 4 found in the new Sonys (I have the ROMS) and the m50x is WCA 4 - which gives better than Avantgo quality HTML rendering built into the OS. Using the MyPalm app this gives good fast basic web browsing (although with no bookmarks - but someone could easily write a shell) and enhances the capabilities of Web Clipping Apps. Using WCA 4 you could easilly build a HTML Hypercard type system with 16bit images, wireless capability, and the ability to launch and export data to other applications, then "compile" it as a WCA to run from the Palm. A Wireless PalmInfocenter WCA could include all the basic site graphics required so they need not be downloaded via a wireless connection. Considering at least 50% of Handheld users I know in the UK use wireless web browsing (GSM is king here)I think Palm made a good decision putting that in the full version of OS 4.

As PalmOs 4 WCA becomes more widespread in newer devices expect to see these more advanced features used to great effect.

-
kHiTeDev

Agree. 4.0 on old device is *much* better
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 8:17:51 PM #
I've had a couple of 4.0 Vx's since early in the year (bluetooth testing). They are much more responsive than the 3.5 devices I have.

RE: With a charge?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 11:18:18 PM #
Whoever said that "Unfortunately the US Justice department ruled last year, prior to the release of OS 3.5, that the practice of Palm giving OS upgrades for free was anti-competitive," I can absolutely assure you that you are wrong. (Emphasis on the ABSOLUTELY, mind you.) I wouldn't mind seeing a link to your source for this, BTW.

610 4.0 Rom works with 710?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 5:52:49 AM #
To "EdwardGreen" in the post above.

I assume you got the 4.0 rom files from the sony dev site? Does that rom specifically say that it is for use only with the 610?

I would love to see anyone with a 710 get their hand on it and see if they can flash it, if they can I would buy the 710 as soon as I can get my hands on it : )

Or perhaps there are no rom flashing utility available yet for Sony.

RE: With a charge?
EdwardGreen @ 7/20/2001 2:37:50 PM #
The PalmOS 4 documentation from Sony is general, and includes details for mp3 audio support. I have no way of checking any more than that!

-
kHiTeDev
"Dept. of Justice" and Greed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 5:01:24 PM #
>well if it hadn't for the department of justice, palm
>will be giving it for free (you still think that
>they're selling it for profit?).

You are on crack. You buy the Dept. of Justice rumor? The only people I heard saying that nonsense were a senior engineer coming up with excuses and some tech support agents too unsavvy about the business world to realize it was a lie.

>-> "Some extra money is better than no extra money."
>Can't believe you are saying this when palm monopolize
>the pda business.

They don't monopolize the business. They're only at 70% of the market or something. Sure, they're the biggest for now, but just because you are it doesn't necessarily make you a monopoly.

>please don't treat Palm as a typical software firm
>where they withhold software 'features' for the next
>version to get extra.

I'm not saying that at all.

>well, it seems like 'pro-consumer' is not in your
>vocabulary -- maybe 'greed' is.

You can be pro-consumer without giving things away for free. Come on, give me a break here. And why is it greedy to expect money for an OS upgrade? It costs them money to release the updater, update the website, and handle all the tech support calls it generates. Of course they *have* to charge for an upgrade. That's not greedy.

And, in case you hadn't noticed, Palm could use extra money now. Why is wanting to be paid for their products bad? Companies are in business to make money. Get a grip.



RE: With a charge?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/21/2001 2:46:44 PM #
Greedy,

Whatever.

Pro-consumer

the bootleg OS4.0 is available for at least 1/2 year by
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2001 10:42:18 PM #
now...

Sony PEG-S320

rldunn @ 7/19/2001 3:25:43 PM #
The PEG-S320 is already shipping with OS 4.0; some people on the Palmblvd site have received theirs already.

RE: Sony PEG-S320
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/17/2001 4:54:15 AM #
how to update it

and the TRGPro.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 3:52:51 PM #
Your article would be more complete if it also accurately reported that the TRGPro as well has an expansion slot and VFS support in it's OS 3.5.2 and OS 3.5.3 versions.

Craig Bowers

Palm OS 4.0 and the VII/VIIx

bcombee @ 7/19/2001 4:22:31 PM #
The question of a Palm OS 4.0 upgrade for the two wireless Palm devices has been brought up on the developer forum several times.

The likely reason why Palm isn't planning on offering the upgrade is space in Flash memory. Both the VII and VIIx have 2MB flash memories, and the version os Palm OS 3.5 that ships on the VIIx already takes up almost all of that space. The libraries needed for Clipper, INetLib, and the Radio Manager are significant; Palm already remove the Expense application and the NetSync library to make room.

The core parts of Palm OS 4.0 are about 1.6MB. That plus the VII-specific parts would be well over 2MB and wouldn't fit into memory. While Palm can move more out of ROM, there is a limit to what they can remove -- would users want to install datebook and to-do as RAM-based applications?

RE: Palm OS 4.0 and the VII/VIIx
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 9:24:35 PM #
You know what, YEAH.I use a visor, and I would love to get rid of all the built in crap, minus the calc and the world clock. I replaced all the 4 functions with 3rd party stuff long ago.


How about SONY S300 OS 4.0 upgrade?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 10:08:14 PM #
What happen to SONY S300, is SONY also have plan to upgrade S300 to OS 4.0?

RE: How about SONY S300 OS 4.0 upgrade?
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2001 5:24:58 PM #
I don't see myself upgrading my 300 to OS4. I have seen posts that some of my favorite software will not run in OS4 such as McFile.

OS 3.52 does everything I need it to. I know how to use it.

Can it be flashed into the M505?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2001 11:34:00 PM #
I have a M505 with the EFIGs version of OS4, my question is will they be releasing the OS4 english version? Will reflashing my M505 mean that I can change my OS4 from EFIG to english only?

RE: Can it be flashed into the M505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 4:58:34 AM #
There already is and English only version of OS4.0
Just pick it up somewhere on the net and flash your M505...
regards,
erik jan

RE: Can it be flashed into the M505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 5:14:40 AM #
Hi,

Is there currently a way to flash a m505 using the USB cradle? I would like to replace the EFIGS version with english only to make room in flash for other things.


RE: Can it be flashed into the M505?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/19/2001 5:29:38 PM #
yep, just find or buy an app called jacksprat. it will remove the unwanted languages

Palm Emu soon.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 12:30:14 AM #
This is really aggrevating, it takes about 2 months for a kid in Brighthand to reach alpha state of Palm Emulator for iPAQ, and Beta is already approaching. He plan to have an RC by september October. ANd here we are Palm talking about November? boy talking about taking their time.

...For a sufficiently loose definition of 'Soon'.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 12:45:38 AM #
There's a long, long, long road from a boot screen to total application compatability - that's assuming that the kid's not a troll just posting a Photoshopped screen capture.(Yes, I've seen it.)

I'd be very carefull in comparing the amount of time it takes somebody to produce a finished product (That you and everybody else will be bytching about if it's messed up) and some kid's hacked-together Alpha-stage emulator that can't even boot the OS fully.

Anyways - If you REALLY need the new OS functionality (?), you might want to consider buying a Handera product next time - They've had OS4 functionality on the TRG Pro for quite a while now, and they've been leading the pack as far as bugfixes and OS releases for quite a while now.

Remember: If you want support, buy from companies that realize that their user's happiness (Can I use my current peripherals? Can I use my new features with exsisting programs? Is this /reliable/, /proven/ technology?) more than their temporary money gains. (We want them to buy NEW peripherals! Who cares if it's backward compatable? We've got to win the Feature Race!)

Argue the future all you like, but the past is pretty much speaking for itself.

I know why the VII is not in there

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 12:39:31 AM #
Palm dropped the prices majorly to get rid of all the inventory of the VII. It was a fialed release and they dropped the price to get rid of them and get more subscribers to the palm.net.

The "m700" is a sweet device from what i've seen and heard. It will own the wireless market.

Palm will not release details until they are ready to ship the unit. I have a feeling that the VII will be discontinued upon release of the new m700.

This is all my opinion, but think about it.

They haven't said anything about the m700 yet because they got burned last time when they told about the m500x series then they couldn't deliever and it killed their sales on other units.


Can't wait until the new one comes out. I predict that it will be reasled some time in late sep. early oct.


IMHO


Botornig


RE: I know why the VII is not in there
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 1:03:09 AM #
YAY! Us rattling on endlessly about new models almost killed Palm's stock last time - Let's do it AGAIN! How much is Bill paying you, TrollBoy?

m705 release: August 13?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 2:52:05 PM #
I'm just guessing based on what my Staples manager told me about his supply of VIIx. All unsold stock is to be returned the previous week...

RE: I know why the VII is not in there
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 3:16:05 PM #

-- Us rattling on endlessly about new models almost killed Palm's stock --

You are kidding right? There have been, what, 1 almost 2 million Palms shipped. And the number of people that read PalmInfocenter/PalmStation, whatever is probably in the Thousands or TenThousands. Do you realy think that fraction of a percentage of users not buying and waiting for the m50X is what gave Palm overstock problems?


Memory refresh fix

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 3:30:35 AM #
Hmm, I am one of those unfortunate with a Palm Vx and the annoying memory refresh fix. I wonder whether the OS 4.0 update will take this into account.

Oh well, when the PEG-N710C comes to Europe in the year 2007 I might just do something stupid ;-)


RE: Memory refresh fix
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 8:17:48 AM #
Drives me up the wall too. Great learning about these exiting new products - I drop into PIC virtually every day to see what's going down, and to see what technology we're going to see in Europe sometime towards the tail end of next year.

Andy. UK.

Looking forward to the next great leap forward in imported technology - the 386.

RE: Memory refresh fix
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 9:48:02 AM #
The 386?? Damn you! Up here in Canada we're still using Altairs to run our military defence systems.

RE: Memory refresh fix
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 11:52:13 AM #
hahaha

Bootleg OS

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 12:01:11 PM #
It has already been out there for some time. The short answer is, for older models, like my IIIx, 4.0 is slower, has app compat. issues, and offers no compelling new features.

Heck, 3.5 (which I paid for) at least offered Agenda view and all-day appointments as incentives.

RE: Bootleg OS
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/17/2002 4:02:47 AM #
Where can i get v3.5, I have a Palm IIIx. I am running v3.3 at the moment.

PPC Palm emu loads OS1/2 ROM

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 1:53:36 PM #
Palm station reports this.

http://www.palmstation.com/view_article.py?article=4486&flat_mode=1

It seems this emulator is progressing rather nicely in hte past 6 weeks.

The PocketPC Palm emulator only exists in Photoshop
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 2:58:01 PM #
Geeks are so easy to troll.

Did you see the Palm Vx running as a Linux webpage server?

And the CLIE N710C emulator running on the iPAQ?

And the iPAQ color emulator running on the m505?

AWESOME!!!

Handspring to release high resolution color model July 30!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 2:39:06 PM #
An usually reliable source told me today that the new Visor will be announced at a press conference on Monday, July 30 and should be available for sale soon after. The unit sports a 320 x 320 16 bit color screen, springboard compatibility and exciting new styling. The new model will list for $450, splitting the difference between the CLIE N710C and N610C.

I've seen a photo of the Visor and I think it's going to be the hottest Palm around for the rest of the year. And to think some people were counting Handspring out!

I've got a PDA in my pocket.... and I might show you soon...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2001 6:53:13 PM #
The PDA in my pocket is without a doubt the most refined device ever conceived. It has 33 megs of internal memory. I accomplished this by creating my own OS version completely pirated from the palmies. I call is BS6. It runs at 213.6 mhz and has a 64,000 color, reflective, active-matrix, 640x640 screen. The BS6 automatically adjusts current apps to fit the screen, and you can pick the colors of any app you show, even the B&W ones. It takes CF, MMC, SD, and the newest available memory media, LMNOP, which is capable of holding as much data as you would like(*1). It is a rechargealbe unit, with a replaceable battery that pops off the lower back. You can recharge in in it's cradle, with an adapter, in your car, with heavy thought(*1), or you can just swap the rechargeable unit with one you've been charging at home in your standard battery charger. At full charge the battery lasts approximately 2 months averaging a daily use of 8 hours with countless screen redraws, or 4 hours of screen use and 4 hours of mp3 playback. Yes, it has limitless mp3 storage(*1) using the LMNOP storage slot, and you can play your music directly from the LMNOP media. The sound quality is suburb and dream-like. The headphones are celestially suspended around your earlobes by St. Jude(*2). The grafitti area is virtual, and is summoned by a quietly spoken voice-command into it's built-in voice recorder that can hold up to 16 hours of voice memos(*1). The IR port beams up to 20 feet, with an enhanced port speed of 5mbps, making it the preferred way to sync with you PC using the included IR unit that connects to your computer with a special hardware card to allow the speeds. The IR is set right next to the internal antenna, which is used for web browsing full-sized sites using special converted visual data streamed directly to your cortex by God's will(*2). The antenna doubles its usefulness when you use the built-in cell phone features that allow you to sync wirelessly to the web from anywhere to secure you data in 27 different lanuages (*3).
Be sure to specify the color of the case and what material you would like it made out of when ordering (*4). Supplies are limited(*6), you get yours fast today!

Also if you're interested in adding more features to the BS6 PDA, such as a crack-scratcher or a pepper spray port, please comment and add on!
Soon to come: The Bathroom Buddy attachment. Formerly seen in Gremlins, now direct to you in November 2001!

*1 - This feature requires the consumption of mood- or mind-altering chemicals in large quantities. Please visit your neighboorhood pusher and ask "homie G for the 411."

*2 - Requires Catholic belief in saints to utilize St. Jude, patron saint of lost causes.

*3 - Lanuages are mostly gibberish not used by people. Ping thrawrth harg moddy dot tin-yungy foonpar. Read that again slowly. There, now. Wasn't that fun?

*4 - Materials disclude straw, yeast, fodder and bedrock. Candy is acceptable(*5)

*5 - Not responsible for melted PDAs.

*6 - There's only one, in my pocket.


:-)
Quik_Fix

RE: Handspring to release high resolution color model July 30!
GrouchoMarx @ 7/21/2001 2:33:44 PM #
+1 Funny :-)

RE: Handspring to release high resolution color model July 30!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2001 11:38:20 AM #
When the hell is this thing gonna be availible in europe?

RE: Handspring to release high resolution color model July 30!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/22/2001 11:55:20 AM #
How come I cannot do video editing with it ???

Solo

RE: Handspring to release high resolution color model July 30!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2001 3:15:19 PM #
Where is a pic of the new Prism? I'm looking into a color Palm, and will wait for the announcement if it's worth it. Can anyone post the link?

expand text space

Will in Salt Lake @ 7/21/2001 8:22:52 PM #
I like to cut and paste text from the internetand/or from word pefect files into memo pad for reading and speech writing purposes. Will the memo pad text space be expanded in the new OS?

Palm OS4.1?

Gavin @ 7/23/2001 12:34:33 PM #
HandEra testing 4.1? How we normal Palm m500 series users dont even get to test it and whats the new 4.1 update all about? I still think 4.0 is buggz as it has crashed on me many times. Any idea when 4.1 would be released?

Visor deluxe upgade?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/29/2001 11:10:57 PM #
Is the visor deluxe upgradeable?

RE: Visor deluxe upgade?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2001 8:24:10 AM #
Sorry, no Visor model is upgradeable. Patches can be applied to its OS to fix small parts but you can't completely upgrade it. The last paragraph in this article talks about how Visors are ungradeable.

How to flash upgrade the m505 using USB

I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2001 4:33:59 AM #
I have the os4 with EFIGS, I want to install the os4 with english. Serial & IIIx easy, USB & m505 ?????

Help

RE: How to flash upgrade the m505 using USB
Ed @ 9/26/2001 9:44:05 AM #
The only way I know of to remove the extra languages from a EFIGS m505 is an application called JackSprat:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2311


---
News Editor

RE: How to flash upgrade the m505 using USB
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/7/2001 5:01:48 PM #
Thanks Ed, thats perfect!

Palm OS 4.0

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/11/2001 1:18:35 PM #
I have bought the palm OS 3.5 to upgrade my palm V, now this OS 4.0 is launching, so is there any discount for those people that had bought this new item?

4.0 free

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/31/2001 2:49:48 PM #
Where are you getting your resources you are all in the dark!!

RE: 4.0 free
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/19/2002 6:07:59 PM #
Where I get it?
RE: 4.0 free
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/5/2002 10:18:22 AM #
Yes please do tell
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