Comments on: Sony Takes 10% of U.S. Retail Market
Palm's loss is its licensee's gain. In recent weeks, Handspring share of the retail market has been hovering 20% and 30%, which is a better showing than they have made in the past.
Sony, who in the past few months has been moving aggressively into the U.S. retail market, has seen its share rise from just 3% to approximately 10% on the strength of the three handheld models it has released in recent months.
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PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
thanks ed. keep it up.
Do the math
Hardly a swell of support for PocketPC, especially considering that the number includes a lot of non-PocketPC machines.
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
Translated,
"I'd rather be ignorant, and I'd rather die as the ignorant".
Open your eyes. Palm is no comparison to PocketPC. Sure if you want to spend $100 on low-end PDA, go ahead, get m100. But if you're spending $300 for any Palm PDA, your ignorance will not serve you any good.
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
doesn't want his readers to know PocketPC is kicking the Palm platform's ass!
Interesting take on the situation. Let's see: All the PocketPC manufacturers on the planet, added up together, command no more than 20% of the PDA market share. Handspring, all by itself, has between 20 and 30%.
Someone's getting their collective asses kicked, but it doesn't seem to be Palm.
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
What an ignorant thing to write... Sure, some high-end Palms are over-priced, but not all. The Clie N610C is a damn good buy. For $320 (street price), you get:
- 320x320, 16-bit screen
- bright backlighting... image is excellent under all lighting conditions
- expansion slot
- small and lightweight (5.6 oz)
- excellent battery life
- form factor that makes one-handed operation comfortable
- thoughtful details like a cradle power supply that can be used as portable charger and a well designed cover
> Ha! Ed's afraid to post anything regarding PocketPC. He doesn't want his readers to know PocketPC is kicking the Palm platform's ass!
That's FUD. PocketPC is doing well (finally), but Palm is still outselling it. It doesn't really matter... both platforms have strengths and weaknesses. Figure out your needs and choose accordingly. Immature, whiny, exaggeratory posts like yours are useless (whether they come from CE zealots or Palm fanatics).
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
At any rate, I think this entire Palm vs PPC debate is being driven by a slice of current Palm owners who have been waiting to upgrade and are undecided about what their next step will be: Palm again or a leap (of faith?) to PPC?
My Palm is half-dead. About two weeks ago, it took a plunge out of my shirt pocket -- unlike past times, this time the screen cracked. It is now equivalent to a Casio Pocket Viewer. I can read what's in it, but I can't add to it. And the screen is so badly cracked, only parts of it work.
Obviously, I need a new machine. Will I go with a CLIE? Or how about the Toshiba GENIO? Or maybe that new HP 56x? None of these choices existed at the start of this year. We Palm owners could ignore the iPaqers, just based on size arguments alone.
But now there's a PPC that is no larger than a Palm III. And now there's also a Palm (CLIE) that is smaller than a Palm III (yes, I know the Vs were around -- but I loathed those). Great color screens. Very appealing form factors. Both (GENIO and CLIE) more powerful than past Palm devices.
I think many other people are struggling with a similar decision. Hence the heightened debate recently.
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
Congratulations! pocketpcinfocenter.com is available.
http://www.networksolutions.com/
It's all yours, Ed!
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
RE: PocketPC marketshare?
That's what I paid at dell.com (it was on sale).
> Perhaps he means Net price.
I use the terms interchangeably (most people I know consider street price and net price to be the same). However, to be more specific, I paid $320 "net price".
On a related topic, I went to dinner Saturday night with a large group of people (mostly programmers) who were friends of a friend (so I only knew a few of them).
I pulled my Clie N610C out of my pocket to write down a phone number and they were all mucho impressed. As it turns out, some of them owned IPAQs (purchased by their companies), but none of them had their IPAQ with them because they said they're too bulky to carry around. They loved holding the Clie and said it was significantly smaller then the IPAQ (even without the exapnsion sleeve).
I've used the IPAQ too and don't think it's *that much* larger than the Clie, but for some people it's bigger enough to make the difference between carrying it in your pocket or leaving it at home (obviously, other people don't mind carrying a larger unit).
So, dimensions and weight don't tell the whole story... despite being only 1/2 oz lighter, the Clie's shape is much more ergonomic than the IPAQ and the Clie fits in a pocket a lot more comfortably.
Anyway, like I wrote, both platforms have advantages and disadvantages... figure out your needs and choose what's appropriate. Enough of this silly holy war.
Wrong?
More accurate data here:
http://www.forbes.com/2001/09/07/0907palm.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=
RE: More accurate data here:
RE: PALM vs. MERLIN:
"Right now the game is Palm's to lose. Combine all the devices that use the Palm operating system together, including Handspring's (nasdaq: HAND - news - people) Visor line and Sony's (nyse: SNE - news - people) Clie, among others, and you're talking about 69% of the worldwide handheld market, compared to 17% for PocketPC, according to market research firm IDC, Framingham, Mass"
RE: PALM vs. MERLIN:
I ain't rich. . .
Relatively low cost (i.e., under $300, closer to $200)
Durability like a cell phone
Light weight
“Reasonable” good looks
RE: I ain't rich. . .
Sorry, but my IIIx still functions, does all I need it to, has plenty of expansion options (tons of after-market add-ons), etc. Why should I upgrade? In a year or so, when color, high-res and the advantages of the memory slots shake out, then perhaps I might just buy a new one. Until then... no chance.
The IIIx I have has served me well for the past 2+ years.
RE: I ain't rich. . .
Business Users Pay For Performance
Sony is cool today...
RE: Sony is cool today...
RE: Sony is cool today...
I bought the N710C...........not OS 4.0. Within a couple of weeks, they come out with the 610 WITH OS 4.0 and no update for the previous suckers who purchased the 710
NOW, they are coming out with a new 7x0 model and leaving the N710C customers behind. THANKS A LOT, SONY. NEVER AGAIN will I purchase another SONY product of any kind.
RE: Sony is cool today...
I think 710 owners who want 4.0 need to lay off the anger and think for a second. No company (other than Palm itself, and then, not for every model) has announced upgrades to 4.0. As far as I know, no company is currently offering the upgrade (includeing Palm - I could be wrong on that I guess). It is not yet time to damn Sony, have a little patience and a little faith. Most news reports that mention it say that Sony officials say there will be an upgrade, they just don't have the details worked out. Given the size of Sony, that doesn't surprise me...
RE: Sony is cool today...
I bought a Visor before Handspring gave a rebate. It was after the refund period.........
RE: Sony is cool today...
My Questions:
Why is no one complaining that Palm has not released its OS4 to all the existing Palm handheld users? How about HandEra? Have they released OS4 for the 330 users yet?
My point is that up till today, PalmOS 4 has not been released for upgrade by any company yet. So why are Clie users so impatient?
OS4 upgrade
RE: Sony is cool today...
RE: Alternate Title: Sony still Last.
Handspring - in the market since September 1999
Sony - in the market since March (?) 2001
Yeah, after it's first few months on the market, Sony is still behind, but you're missing the point. Sony is growing. Fast. Faster then Palm the original Palm, faster than the original Visor. Check back on the numbers after Sonys had time to build there brand in the market, I suspect they'll be much more in Sony's favor.
RE: Alternate Title: Sony still Last.
RE: Alternate Title: Sony still Last.
RE: Alternate Title: Sony still Last.
I also have a Handera and frankly don't care where it stands in these statistics.
It's all relative to your needs and wants.
Porsche doesn't sell as many 911 Carara's as Chevy does Cavaleirs. But we all know which one is the superior machine.
They also don't advertise to the masses since they focus is on a very elite (well ok rich) group of people.
Handera is a wise company that focus their efforts where they will do the most good, but I think if they did decide to market their device like the other companies do, they would have quite a respectible chunk of these figures.
Am I a trouble maker or what ;)
RE: Alternate Title: Sony still Last.
Huh? I thought s300 released last year or even earlier... and don't forget the never-made-it-to-the-US *COLOR* s500.
RE: Alternate Title: Sony still Last.
Porsche doesn't sell as many 911 Carara's as Chevy does Cavaleirs. But we all know which one is the superior machine.
Superior in what sense? The Posche costs eight times as much to buy as the Cavalier, and probably at least half again as much to own. If it doesn't last at least eight times as long, and if cost of ownership is your main metric, then which one is "the superior machine"?
m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
(2) The article said the number was "in the recent weeks". It didn't say anything about is the market share the cumulative one or the units sold in one particular period? m505 has been out longer than N710C, so if the market share is the cumulative one, then you can divide the share by the time and you will find m505 sold much less than N710C per month in average.
(3) N710C is reallly hard to get, just go to retail store to see if you can get one!
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
Is Sony incompetent or what?
Oh well...
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
I'm sick of you idiots bashing the m505
Why don't you all just stop the m505 bashing and get on with your lives?
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
Are you the same person that wrote:
"The chief competitor for the Clie 320, is in fact, the m125. Already, even with the head-start, even the most glazed Clie owners can admit that the m125 will heavily outsell the Clie 320. Most people have bad memory's of the first Clie, the new one just a new second digit. Although Clie products may innovate, they will not-outsell, at least not for the forseable future."
Pardon me, but that sounds like some product bashing to me. Where are these "glazed Clie owners?" Have you met with them? Did they sign a declaration stating: "We, the glazed Clie owners, have been given expressed permission from the moderator of the m505 user group in the Yahoo Groups with over 2300 members that we can now admit that the m125 will heavily outsell the Clie S320?"
I've visited your Users Group and it is clear that you bash the Clie every chance you get. Considering that you're the moderator, this is quite frequent.
When asking for peace in the Clie/Palm debate, don't let hypocrisy (and a clear and hyperbolized bias) stand in your way.
It's alright to be enthusiastic about a device, but be sure to allow others the same amount of enthusiasm. I'm sure that if we all had the time, we'd all moderate our own Users Group, but the simple fact of the matter is that most of the readers on this site actually have to pay rent, utilities, and other sorts of payments in life. All of which means that we have jobs that require us to be away from the things like moderating a Users Group, going on vacations to Australia, going to rich prep schools, etc.
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
And a long time ago (deleted now) there were polls made by Davy directly bashing the Clie too.
And, to make things worse, Davy even e-mailed one of the moderators of the Clie Users Group and told him not encourage his members not to bash m505 users, and that he himself has sent an email to all of his m505 users to not bash the Clie users. Funny, I am a member of the m505 group and didn't get such an email, And, I haven't seen a single m500/505 bashing in the Clie group.
RE: m500 Series outsells all Clie's, on it's own!
Stop it with the OS 4.0 crying
David in Pflugerville, TX
RE: Stop it with the OS 4.0 crying
CNET First Take: Pocket PC 2002
http://www.cnet.com/electronics/0-1087-8-7078308-1.html?tag=sd
RE: CNET First Take: Pocket PC 2002
RE: CNET First Take: Pocket PC 2002
RE: CNET First Take: Pocket PC 2002
$499 Palm can't compete.
Palm should come up with better machine before chrismast or they will only have market share less than 20% by the end of the year.
RE: CNET First Take: Pocket PC 2002
RE: CNET First Take: Pocket PC 2002
can Palm open 2Mb of spreadhseet in Hebrew alphabet yet? How about opening a 4Mb word document? Embed simple symbols? multiple open while faxing it on the background and making a scribble note?
(let's pull the classic line, yeah but does it do quake? wordprocessor, simple database, and PIM are child's play it doesn't require massive OS/CPU power.)
Plus if WordSmith is that good it would be ported to PPC by now. (not that anybody wants to pay $30 bucks for it when you can get better pWord 2002 for free.)
RE: CNET First Take: Pocket PC 2002
RE: CNET First Take: Pocket PC 2002
and "why would anybody want that' argument also was Palm's answer to color, audio, bigger screen real estate, internet gateway, and more memory.
Mobius 2001
-- I might as well jump in too. New HP and GENIO pics.
PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
This group clearly has it's head in the sand, unless they are talking about demos at this particular show. The article clearly says the devices "show" better. Yep, we all buy handhelds to run demos, right? That must be the answer, because the PPC guys where I work still can't get that "Productivity" thing going.
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
and let's skip the multimedia.
It's like saying Porche's engine is just a marketing trick in a car industry, afterall is not like anybody can use it within the speed limit.
Palm's idea of cutting edge OS/Hardware upgrade is vibrating alarm, not streaming moving picture or viewing 100Mb of corporate database file.
If one wants to talk about snazzy marketing gimmick, than the Claudia schiffer and Jordan model would be one, not a model with snazzy color screen and a processor strong enough to handle wireless speech recognition. (or how about that new look of m125?)
the so called snazzy gimmick is actually a technological leap that Palm Inc cannot duplicate in their product, due to lack of technological know-how, delinited by their frantic buy out of Be and the ever so late 5.0.
anybody notice how pathetic it is mentioning wordsmith & ababall compare to what is available in pocket PC?
If one survey the Palm software titles, they are limited to simple text, list and calculator like program, with one or two excellent developer tools, unlike the nirvana of software titles for user Palm Inc would like us to believe.
Observe how nobody mentions program such as datebook as superior to what is available to pocket pc anymore and this is supposedly the unbeatable Palm PIM function. 5 Months ago this would be the first title to be brought up as evident that palm is superior.
Small, sleek, reliable? yeah you can say that again...
don't forget to mention Zen, palm economy and simplicity along with it too. Now we are talking about marketing gimmick. Palm Inc. models is not even the smallest/sleekest anymore compare to Clie never mind genio or j56x. It is one of the most expensive for what it can/cannot do tho'.
reliability? two words: SD mems.
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
Don't know where your got that, it wasn't from me. I stated the PPC screens were better.
> let's skip the multimedia.
Does that mean I have to delete my music videos? :-(
> viewing 100Mb of corporate database file.
I'd like to see that. Really. The HP Jordana 568, one of the first to run PocketPC 2002 and the one with the most memory, can't. Neither can the 558's in my department, neither can my boss' Casio. At least the new models seem to do away with having to drag around an extension cord.
> how pathetic it is mentioning wordsmith
Is there another wordprocessor for PPC other than Pocket Word? Must be, because I know you can't be referring to the Pocket Word that I know. It must be a new version.
> If you survey the Palm software titles, they are limited to simple text, list and calculator like program
You are forgetting that, according to PocketPC Magazine, the most requested apps for the PPC platform were Word and Excel type applications. Unfortunately they both fall short of their Palm counterparts. This is based on real world usage, on real handhelds of both types, used by real IT professionals in an environment with 15,000 employees. Ironically, our Microsoft-only management just purchased Palm OS devices for our Field Engineers.
> not even the smallest/sleekest anymore
Opinions are not as accurate as tape measures. I like the Clie personally and have sold customers on them when visiting stores, but they are longer, thicker, and heavier.
> reliability? two words: SD mems.
Not sure if you mean SD mem is the answer to PPC reliability, or if you mean that SD mem on the Palm is not reliable. I've had no trouble with SD.
It would be pointless to go on, as you have the device of your preference and that's fine with me, I would not tell you to drop your platform because of my opinion, and I hope the same would be true for you. I could not care less about that "zen" thing, and I have the device I have because it's very good at what I need it to do. A PPC would have been cheaper, and I am intimately familiar with Windows. But I spent the extra cash because the Palm was better suited for my work load. I do disagree with mis-representation, and that was my only contention to begin with.
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
The same argument goes with 48 Meg of gaming files like pocket Quake or Fades. CF card is dirt cheap, one can get 128Mb for about $80 on the net right now so this is practical argument.
Palm OS cannot handle this situation smoothly since it was design originally as a organiser with only several thousand addresses or appointments in mind. The era of 10kb type of file is over. The world has moved on from simple tiny B/W text to rich media files and they are measured in Mb's not kb's
as for price, we all wait for Palm Inc to come up with color machine that goes for $350. Want dirt cheap PPC? get black and white discounted iPaq for $150, still cheaper than discounted m500.
bottom line, Palm is only good for $80-100 dolar organizer class handheld type of activity.
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
Particularly since, for example, Handspring (all on their lonesomes) have a higher percentage of the handheld market than all the PPC manufactures put together.
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
and secondly, the sales percentage are tipping to PPC at alarming rate. Palm is dropping at a rate of 10%/ quarter.
this is what Wall street like to hear, not the fact that Palm is winning market share because it is giving away its devices.
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
The iPAQ is nothing but an overpriced TOY and the new PocketPC models are doomed to fail just like everything else Microsoft has put out
RE: PocketPC steals the show, Palm fades at DEMOmobile
yeah, lets see the financial number for this quarter shall we? PALM close at 2.73 friday.
The "toy" sure makes people think which handheld to get next. Wireless transfer of musical slide show of last fishing trip sure sounds amusing handheld trick to be shared with friends and family.
who wants that drab black and white zen simplificity machine...
Some implications
2. The bulk of the sales are for basic models.
I can't tell whether the figures quoted include corporate sales, but the ancedotal evidence is that executives want solid PIM functionality, simple and reliable operation, synchronisation with desktop, some expandability and small form factor. Beleive it or not most executives won't buy a m100 series because they look like toys (I've heard similar comments about CLIE too). Bells and whistles (like colour screens, MP3, etc) are nice but not if they compromise the basic requirements.
All this points to the m500 having a huge potential, except for it's unreasonable price. If the m500 price was pitched in the mid-range, its sales would rocket.
RE: Some implications
what mid range? do you think consumers are stupid and cannot compare price vs features? for what m500 offers, I wouldn't be surprise if it will fall around $170 before Christmas.
RE: Some implications
I dont think it warrant $200 cost difference.
Palm drives DEMO God award at DEMOmobile
Short pitch (but also context): Copytalk is aimed at the mobile executive. It allows users to make a simple phone call (cell phone or any phone) and then simply speak naturally to dictate emails, contacts, appointments, to-dos - basically any information supported on a Palm-Powered device. Copytalk then sends the email like it came from your desktop - as text - and at the next sync puts the entries in your PDA as though you'd done them by hand. The service will start at $24.50/month when it becomes publicly available (you can pre-register for a free preview now). I'm going to work w/Ed on getting a review done for PIC, but give us a few weeks :)
We chose the Palm platform because it has the largest installed base among mobile professionals (by a factor of something like 4 or 5 to one); because it's the platform of choice for convergence devices (has anyone seen a PPC or Stinger cell phone in production/use?); because it has wider support among a variety of manufacturers and related service providers; and finally, because all of these things come together (along with sites like this) to create a real and reachable market.
We DEMO'd it on stage w/a Palm V and a sync cable and had on hand in the demo pavillion:
a Visor Edge/Visorphone;
a Visor Platinum/Omnisky
a Palm VII;
a Kyocera Smartphone
and 3 Palm Vx's w/Omnisky sleds.
(you don't need wireless on your PDA to use Copytalk, but it's pretty cool to talk on a phone and then retrieve the work into the PDA w/out even using a desktop)
In short - there's a real, available and growing market of mobile executives -- something like 16 million have been delivered according to Palm's CMO --using Palm-Powered devices that I can reach without spending millions on advertising. The same is just not true of the PPC market.
We got asked a lot "why aren't you on PPC" - and we gave the answer above. I only had one or two folks really question it.
Will we support the MS platform in the future? Maybe, but right now, my service will be a complete success if I can get 2% of the 16 million strong Palm user base, and for now I'm putting my energies at reaching them.
Robert Lincoln
RE: Palm drives DEMO God award at DEMOmobile
It's free.
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Wow, that's a significant share