Comments on: Rumor: Palm to Release Hi-Res Model Before OS 5
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RE: A bit much
I mean, why aint everyone running 64bit Itaniums over 32bit Pentium3/4s? It's cos the software hasn't been developed for it yet and it's still very pricey.
Hence a Hi Res Palm device running say OS4.5 with QVGA color and the size of my m505 would get my definite vote. I'd buy it.
Even the software would work right on it, since everyone is starting to cover QVGA for support.
RE: A bit much
RE: A bit much
Would it help if I said "Against common intuition"... Does that make it easier for you to understand?
Palm needs to hurry up!
Sony Clies RULE!
nelson.hsieh
RE: Palm needs to hurry up!
RE: Palm needs to hurry up!
Palming away.....
Virtual Graffiti
I use my Palm often and use graffiti regularly and also use several hacks that involve pen strokes. Every Palm I have had has suffered from the screen becoming scratched in this area due to use. I imagine that a virtual graffiti area would suffer from the same scratches over time and the text displayed in this scratched up area unreadable.
Anyone with a HandEra or even a PPC care to share the benefit or their experience with a virtual input area.
RE: About yer scratched graffiti area
This way the graffiti "area" will not get scratched, also try writing softer.
The only thing I am worried about with the collaspable graffiti area is bugs that make the device crash.
The more complicated the software the more chance you'll make it crash. My palm Vx never crashed before I got the folding keyboard, the hacks, the over clocking, the fitaly stamp, the word processors, the special launchers, all of these things make the software more complicated, then you go and add a collasple graffiti area, and it affects all of those original complications in a whole new way, just the upgrade to my sony clie, with it's high-res assist software, already it conflicts with "certain" programs, and now the jog dial too, the jog dial doesn't make it crash, but it does cause me to occasionally exit or switch programs/documents by accident, which is a little annoying, which is why Microsoft Software will always have bugs, no matter what they do to correct it later, because the initial philosophy is corrupt, and somewhat unavoidable.
Virtual Graffiti
Then I actually got a 330 and started using it. :-) The extra screen space DOES make a difference when viewing DOCs or other long read-only sources, if you have an app that supports it. (Many now do.) You can also see larger lists in apps that show lists. I'm also a big fan of the echo/inking, as it eliminates the need for TealEcho. Most importantly is what it does NOT do, specifically, the PocketPC style "pop-over" writing area. It's natural state is without the writing area. The Palm's natural state is with the writing area. When the graffiti area is minimized, it slides out of the way. Apps that don't know about it are completely unaffected. Apps that do have more area to work with in a flat space, vis, they generally simply scale to fill the extra space. It's not confusing, at least not to me, the way the PocketPC virtual writing area was/is. Every time I use my TRGpro now, I have the urge to minimize the graffiti area and use the scroll wheel, and then miss them when I remember they're not there. :-)
As for the question of tearing up the screen with the stylus, I must confess that I've been using Palms for years and have never used a screen protector of any kind, and have never had a problem with my stylus doing any damage to the screen. I've heard from other people who say that they always tear their screens up without a screen protector. Your mileage may vary. If you are afraid of damaging the soft graffiti area, the screen protectors for the III-series should fit just fine, and many people use them.
--GrouchoMarx
Virtual Graffiti... what about screen size?
Why doesn't anyone care about screen size without virtual graffiti? For example, in area the Visor Prism's screen size is undoubtedly bigger than the m505's if the m505 HAD virtual/collapsable graffiti.. the same might even be true with Handspring vs. Sony or even HandEra...
There are also many minuses.. for example, with graffiti on the HandEra and PPC's have basically a 240x240 "viewing" screen.. which is nice but not as beautiful as Sony's 320x320.. you'd need to raise the resolution to 480x320 to match it..
I think once screens and processing power advance then Virtual Graffiti would be a nice addition to all handhelds, but it's only "good" for a niche market right now, in my opinion (heavy ebook readers, etc).
In other words, "Virtual Graffiti is ridiculous." :(
Virtual graffiti is not ridiculous.
I guess I'm part of a niche market, but it still seems as if virtual graffiti is a great idea. Of course, 480x320 would be preferable to 320x240 (a SONY 760 hi-res screen with soft graffiti would be very impressive).
Who says nonone cares about screen size without virtual graffiti? Is it really true that the Visor Prism's screen size would be undoubtedly bigger than the m505's if the m505 HAD virtual/collapsable graffiti?
It seems to me that a lot of the opposition to virtual graffiti comes from code-writers that do not want to deal with the hassles of improving upon applications. Users, too, are rightfully concerned about bugs that crash machines, but this too stems from code-writers that do not want to effectively deal with the hassles of improving upon applications.
Just my opinion.
Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Palm needs to hurry up!
Palm might as well leapfrog PPC and do full VGA. If might take something like the ARM to handle the processing requirements, though.
Palm: Try harder!
So what is Palm's strategy? To spend six months developing . . . a clone of the Sony Clie! (Yes, with bluetooth - that will certainly make it cost a ton more, but is it really going to sell a ton more units?) Sony will probably be introducing a new Clie about this time as well. Think they're going to sit still?
Try harder, Palm!
RE: Palm: Try harder!
Documents to Go alone is worth $70.00 and it is included with the m505. Also it includes multy mail ($40.00) and Jask image viewer ($30.00).
Peace,
and please no flaming (this goes double for the Handera geeks)
RE: Palm: Try harder!
That's why I, like many others, avoid PocketPC's and even the Clie. I don't want to walk around with a brick in my pocket.
I also don't have any use for 200mhz, 64megs of ram, etc etc if my major uses includes addresses, phone numbers, spreadsheets, and the occational game.
If I wanted the features that are in most pocketPC's, I'd just shell out a couple hundred more for a full-fledged laptop.
I hope that Palm sticks to keeping the OS (and future models) SMALL, LIGHT, PORTABLE, and most importantly BLOAT FREE.
Microsoft's OSes try to be everything to everybody.. and that's why their software is such a pig.
I mean, I don't want to EVER see an hourglass on a handheld.
Give me the high-res screen, decent storage, good battery life, and a fast OS in a SMALL SLEEK form-factor like the 505 and I'm all for it.
Just say no to bloat!
RE: Palm: Try harder!
I love my palm and since using a Vx I can't go back to anything bigger regardless of features. I carry mine in a Vaja and the case adds some ticknes (about.4 inch) but still it is great.
another important selling point for Palm branded handhelds is the brand name. Who better to create palm handhelds than the company that makes the OS. Palm provides better tech support and the OS updated will be allwas first.
RE: Palm: Try harder!
Cheers!
N473
---------------
www.N473.org
New Palm Site Coming Soon!
RE: Palm: Try harder!
Just say no to bloat!"
I second that, I don't really need a 200mhz processor in a palm when i use it mainly for my todo, address and occassional game. 'Twould be nice to have high-res screen and 16megs with the same form factor. Do i really need to play mp3? nope! when am i going to use it? in the car-i have a kick ass system, at home? my home system rocks, in the gym-why would i want to take my palm to the gym? for the matter who does? where?
Those things are better as add-ons, and people who say they want to watch tv/movies on a screen that small, i say you have your priorities pretty messed up. But like they say, different strokes for different folks. I just think Palm should be listening to what their customers want and not force their hands (take it or leave it)everytime with their products.
RE: Palm: Try harder!
Seriously, what would this PDA lack that you guys want? Wireless web? Maybe. But it's still plenty different from anything else on the market now.
RE: Palm: Try harder!
For some PPCs, yes, the size is bigger. But Clie can no way be called a brick. I am carrying Clie N710C everyday and I am quite comfortable with it.
I also tried the new Toshiba Genio two weeks ago, it is a very solid handheld and it doesn't need a sleeve like iPAQ. You can put a CF card without any battery pack. My friend uses it with GPS CF card and it is cool, the screen is sharp and big, the response is instantaneous. What amazed me is that the size isn't that big considering the processing power it has.
Tell me if M505 can do that nicely? (160*160 resoultion + dull color+slow CPU). M505 is a good machine but just overpriced, besides easy to carry isn't the biggest advantage for all the people, there are also many people who are not that mobile (like me)!!
RE: Palm: Try harder!
It's not only the hardware. It's the software rules! Nowaday Microsoft always mislead people to purchase new hardware to run their huge monster softwares. It is rediculus! Other programmers can do much brilliant job with less computation power than Microsoft. Quo Vidas is a nice example here.
Be reasonable!
The m505 is what it is because there is very little hardware there at all.
If you get built in blue tooth and hi res, 16MBs of RAM with an SD slot on the side, THIN means impossible! With all that hardware these devices will become bricks.
I may carry a Clie, but you all seem so dependent on size over functionality, why would you even care about features!? You can't have a wafer of a Palm and have all those features!
Besides that....most everyone carries a cell phone..whats the point in small size of one device when 1 or 2 more are bricks!
Palming away.....
RE: Palm: Try harder!
I still think that Palm needs to do more than put out a high-res, better lit m505 by next spring. That's just not different enough from the Clie 610 - which by then will retail for what, maybe $299? - to beat it in the market.
What the necessary "more" is, though, I'm not sure. To me, it would probably mean a soft graffiti area. More screen means easier to use, in my book. But other people will certainly want something else. Palm's challenge for a high-end device is to incorporate features that most high-end buyers will be willing to pay for, not those that only a few will pay for. Bluetooth? Sounds to me like that falls in the latter category. (But fortunately, I only have to buy Palms, not sell them!)
- alanf
RE: Palm: Try harder!
Btw a basic Colour Jornada is Ģ199. Which is worrying.
RE: Palm: Try harder!
COMPUSA and check it by yourself, you will know what you said is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE !
RE: Palm: Try harder!
AMEN, BROTHER!
RE: Palm: Try harder!
RE: Palm: Try harder!
You've obviously NEVER seen a PPC in action. PPC uses a little colored dial that looks like a clock. There is not hourglass. So based on your statement, you'd be just FINE with a Pocket PC.
RE: Palm: Try harder!
all the same thing. when a handheld's #1 use is quick access to information, i don't want to wait.
RE: Palm: Try harder!
Yes.. i'm exaggerating a bit... but my point is still valid. For me, personally, the Clie is still just a bit to tall and thick to comfortably carry it around in my pocket at all times.
I have been using a Vx for almost 2 years and have seen nothing that even tempts me to upgrade.
I love the high-res screen on the Clie... but it's of little use for me. I don't want to carry photos or videos and I don't care about the MP3 playback either.
The iPaq is the only PPC that I'd even consider. And the only way they got it as small as it is, is due to the fact that they don't include the CF slot. The new 3870 changes all that with a built-in SD slot AND bluetooth... all while maintaining almost the exact same size as current iPaq's.
Another thing I love about my Vx is that the battery life is outstanding. I go 4 weeks between recharges.. you can't say that about the BLOATED PocketPC.
RE: Palm: Try harder!
Those who don't have Hi Res are quick to diminish it's value!
I LOVE the Hi Res not just to view beautiful, sharp photos of my kids, but also to read! Yeah... try reading a novel, your schedule, or phone numbers in Hi Res, and believe me, you won't want to go back!
It's like reading from a book!
Once Palm incorporates Hi Res into their devices, all the Palm m50x users will be RAVING about how NICE the Hi Res screen is! Today, "who needs it!"
too late
RE: too late
How in the hell can Palm catch up. Palm still haven't confirmed the Hi-Res screens.
RE: too late
I was swayed by the enterprise stuff but on the whole, I'd have to say after careful consideration if you use your Palm mainly for PIM (Personal Information management)
Palm wins hands down in cost, battery life and size. Plus with all of these 3rd Party options you can edit MS Office docs, view photos, do WiFi, send and receive attachments, play with huge databases, etc etc.
These are important considerations that are easily overlooked when the press plays up multimedia features.
Granted I played with the iPaq, Genio E570, Jornada, Casio and Symbol but can't compare to the Palm.
If you want multimedia for about 3-4 hours then the PPC is a great addition, but nothing compares to Palm's software.
A dead brick with no power makes a good paperweight. (that goes for Clie too)
One thing I saw that was cool was a Toshiba Genio with a CF bluetooth card sending a pocketWrod doc to a Canon printer with an Anycom Bluetooth dongle.
I think that is where Palm is headed. As is Compaq with the bluetooth built into the new iPaq.
If you need multimedia that bad and still want to use Palm OS, go Clie.
The distinction is user experience!!
Oh Ballmer also said that the TabletPC is coming next year. So in my book, I'd go Palm for info management and a MS tablet for more intensive stuff.
Palm will and should have a 2 tiered platform: OS4 and OS5.
SIZE Matters!
RE: too late
I wouldnīt buy a m505 that gives 3 days of battery life with heavy usage, and that form factor! So small and thin, I wouldnīt find it in my pockets. A brick is more useful.
(Why do PPC owners come here and curse PalmOS products? Like one guy said, they must be waiting for their brick to charge (3rd time in a day...)
RE: too late
I own both a Palm Vx and a Jornada 568 and each has different strengths/weaknesses. I will keep both for the foreseeable future. And yes, you can sync both machines on the same computer.
The Jornada 568 gets 14 hours with its detachable lithium-polymer batteries. In real life with backlighting: 10 hours. The m505 gets only 8 hours continuous. The screen is beautiful and you can listen to MP3s for hours without the battery running down like the older PocketPC handhelds. The Jornada 568 is also not much thicker than a Palm V in the Palm hardcase and easily sits in the pocket.
RE: too late
RE: too late
HandSpring's chance
RE: too late
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RE: too late
RE: too late
We are all (except the trolls) looking forward to the new Palm models. Keep'em coming.
RE: too late
I do agree that Palm has been too complacent about their market position, as a result they have a dissatsified consumer base who are jumping ship to the competitor's PPC. Only, if they would have taken Microsoft seriously two years ago.
OS4 before Any talk of OS5
RE: OS4 before Any talk of OS5(Corrected)
go to support >software downloads. Actually there is only the update to 3.5, but in November 4 will be there. I guess it will cost $20.00
RE: OS4 before Any talk of OS5
This will invalidate the warranty on your PDA, but then if you have an older III or V series, that probably has gone the way of the dinosaurs by now anyway.
MP3 Player?
Also Palm would sell more SD cards if they supported 265MB.
RE: MP3 Player?
RE: MP3 Player?
I WANT A CLIÉ
RE: No MP3 Player
I don't think that an MP3 player is necessary on the m525. Its great that there is a Sony handheld out there with one built in for people who want one but that's not everyone. I refuse to pay extra money for it.
Sony is concentrating on people who want their handheld to entertain them. Palm shouldn't concentrate on that group too.
RE: MP3 Player?
All the "MP3 wanters" need is someone to develop an SD card - simple. SD card's can have up to 7 functions, so it could have storage space for songs and software, and the actual player as a second function.
NO IT DOESN'T
Why would Sony have released the 610 if they didn't think that a non-mp3 model would sell? The m525, if it comes to pass, will sell JUST FINE without mp3 and will compete JUST FINE against the 610, especially if the price is right.
The 760 is designed to compete against PPCs and their overhyped media player (which means the 760 is overhyped). The 610 is much better for the mainstream market, and I'll bet before long, it's listed as Sony's #1 seller.
What KIND of Hi-Res???
I would most like to see the QVGA and have a soft grafiti area.
RE: What KIND of Hi-Res???
RE: What KIND of Hi-Res???
Actually, I'm suprised that everyone here wasn't expecting something like this from Palm before OS5.0 in light of that info. Expect it to be QVGA and color.
I expect everyone to drool over it too.
-Will
RE: What KIND of Hi-Res???
RE: What KIND of Hi-Res???
> It's not exactly a secret that Palm has
> officially taken HandEra's QVA API under
> it's wings
This is the first I've heard of it. Do you have an URL to the press release? I can't find anything about this on PalmGear or on Handera's site.
Are you referring to the press release about Handera announcing QVGA certification? That's a completely different issue.
Personally, I think it's unlikely that Palm would use Handera's QVGA standard, since it's less compatible with existing applications designed for 160x160 screens.
RE: What KIND of Hi-Res???
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2310
in which Mike Walter, vice president of software development for HandEra, said there is a "strong interest within the industry in licensing HandEra's technology."
The companies weren't specified.
---
News Editor
RE: What KIND of Hi-Res???
qVGA is a *hardware* standard. qVGA screens are plentiful and cheap, available from multiple vendors, with a simple, established upgrade pathway. Moving from qVGA to VGA is a no-brainer, and VGA screens will also be plentiful and cheap.
Both the original 160x160 and Sony's 320x320 screens are unusual pieces of hardware. Sony is currently the only manufacturer for the 320x320 screens, and standardising only on the Sony screens would put all other PalmOS device manufacturers at Sony's mercy- not a good move. What is the proposed move from 320x320- 640x640? More expensive, proprietary screens?
Bridge the gap to qVGA now, and swallow the bitter pill- from there on, the future is bright.
To continue with the weird 1:1 320x320 screens is to paint yourself into a corner- very comfortable for now, but with no prospects for the future.
I find the compatibility issues with the Handera irritating in theory- but in practise, all of my day-to-day apps work just fine.
Sony has a great product, and I could fault no-one for buying it. But it was a great idea for them to introduce the product because they had the facility to produce nonstandard screens in large numbers- which, among current PalmOS device manufacturers, is a quality unique to Sony.
Is Palm Alienating their users?
On the other hand I am finding that Palm is releasing new units on the that replace many of their existing units with in the same business year, especially on now, on the near eve of OS 5. If I were a die hard user of Palm I would be very upset to learn of these new devices comming out so soon to each other. I would be upset of the money I forked out only to see Palm knowingly have something better than what they are marketing....(specially if the current PDA's can't upgrade to the new unit's specs..Like OS versions, Memory or even applications that will be written only for the new specs and hi-Res) all with in the same year.
I think Palm is hurting their own user base. It almost seems like tey have no real market plan, but are making it up as they go along.. I wonder what university they went too, to learn those business practices.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't
Gee? Sounds like the m525 to me? Yeah, it would be awful if Palm put out a device like that.
Yeah, right!
Here is how it works in the real world of technology.
a) If you wait, the price will come down
b) if you buy now, the price will come down later
c) Computers get cheaper, faster, and better over time (or, the same amount of $$ gives you better, faster features).
e.g. if you buy a m505 at $449 today you might be able to buy one for $350 in six months. Guess what? That's life in the big city!
Crying about this is futile.
-Kevin Crossman
RE: Is Palm Alienating their users?
If they did it right the first time, there wouldn't be any screaming for new product or upgrades. Palm probably has a market plan, but their licensees are wagging them around.
505/CLIE -- Innovation per MM
The CLIE has more total innovation, but think about innovation per mm of thickness. mm for mm, the innovation for each unit is about the same. If Sony could have packed that feature set into a 505 form-factor, they would have. Technology at the time prohibited it. Palm could have done the same thing if they had that much space to work with.
So you cannot compare the two.
RE: 505/CLIE -- Innovation per MM
I know the clie is not that much bigger but comming from the m505 it was just too important that it fit hidden in my shirt pocket. The m505 fits the bill. So obviously the small difference in size IS important to some people like me. If Sony could have fit the brightness, resolution, MP3 into a m505 form factor... they would have done it. So dont be suprised if palm couldnt either.
RE: 505/CLIE -- Innovation per MM
RE: 505/CLIE -- Innovation per MM
Shame about the buttons on the Clie, though...
m500 dead?
RE: m500 dead?
RE: m500 dead?
try it, then test your backlight. same trick works on the m500
RE: m500 dead?
New developments needed from Palm
RE: New developments needed from Palm
Being a software developer, I have a boatload of handhelds. Palms, Handsprings, etc. along with PocketPCs. My personal favorite is the Handera 330. It's just plain faster than my IPaq in terms of responsiveness and speed at opening applications, easier & quicker to use, and the charge lasts a lot longer. The only thing the IPaq has is color, but that's a tradeoff I'm more than happy to make for functionality.
Cheers,
Brad
brad@notamd.com
Palm, Catch up before PPC get to you!
RE: Palm, Catch up before PPC get to you!
I've checked out the new PPCs, thinking it might be time for a switch. If I do switch, I think it might be to an older (and now cheaper) PPC. The iPaq seems to have gotten slower, and the screen is more "squishy." The Jornada is of MUCH cheaper quality--sure, it's light, but the plastic also seems low-grade.
I'll stick with my Palm, thank you, and I'm sure many others will, too.
'Don't listen too much to the Geeks'
That's all I have to say after reading this thread of comments.
Go on Carl... make some profit... build a Windows on a shaky DOS foundation... do it man... make some money... make something that 95% of the market will buy, not what the other geeky 5% would design.
-Will
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A bit much