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Comments on: Handspring Treo 180, 180g, 270 Coming in 2002

Handspring has posted the full information on the new Treo lines of smartphones on its website. The information that was previously available about these wasn't exactly correct. The names were off and they don't look precisely like the images that were filed with the FCC. There was also facts about them not included in the FCC filing.

The first two models of the series will be the Treo 180 and the Treo 180g. The 180 will have a built-in keyboard while the 180g will use Graffiti for text input. Both of these will have monochrome screens, cost $400 with a service contract, and be available in early 2002.

In mid-2002 there will be a new addition. The Treo 270 will have a color screen and a built-in keyboard. Handspring currently plans to charge $600 for it.

Update: Handspring has announced that the monochrome models will be available to U.S. buyers online in limited quantities during February but they won't be available in large enough quantities for retail stores until March. European customers should begin to see it in stores well before that.

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The two grayscale models look intresting, but

Davy @ 10/15/2001 12:00:44 AM #
How about the color one? That's pretty cool, if the screen is nice, and the price is right. I have a m505 with a Omnisky Wireless Modem, and I have no complaints (my wallet does), but I might take a look at that in 9 months. You never know. I think this is the best product showing Handspring's had in quite some time. Maybe they can return to the innovators they once were.

-Davy

RE: Omnisky
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 8:26:36 AM #
You mentioned Os with a 505. I presume that you bought the modem separately and switched your existing account by having them reset your EID# (process found on Os' discussion forum). Is that correct or did you actually find a way to get them to support/supply for a 500-series?

RE: The two grayscale models look intresting, but
Davy @ 10/15/2001 11:30:08 AM #
I actually still have both modems, so I couldn't switch over the account. You do have to buy the modem seperatley (for a pricey $350), and get a seperate service plan. You can transfer your plan from your Vx modem, by telling Omnisky you had to reset your palm, and giving them the new numbers. Just be sure to never tell them your doing this with a m50x. They'll hang up on you. Nice, eh?

I got a plan with At+t Wirless for Unlimited Access for $30 a month. Pretty nice, and it's pretty fast.

-Davy

RE: The two grayscale models look intresting, but
Geo @ 10/15/2001 4:34:54 PM #
The monochrome screens look crisper than most Visor screens I've seen (even publicity shots). I'd be curious if they've at least improved the clarity/contract of the display ... or if I'm just wishfully hallucinating. :)

Although I'm switching belatedly to a Prism shortly, I'd always felt I could stay with monochrome if they'd improved it a little.

RE: The two grayscale models look intresting, but
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 10:59:35 PM #
The text can be pretty sharp when you shrink down the screen. - i.e the first Sony Clie (S300?), compared to the other Palm OS PDA's at the time.

The loss of marketing

GrouchoMarx @ 10/15/2001 12:07:49 AM #
It's a sad day for marketers everywhere. Handspring was the only PalmOS company that could come up with decent names for their devices. (Deluxe, Platinum, Prism, etc.) Now with their new line, they're going Sony on us. What's with the numbers? Give us decent product names!

In other news...

16 MB RAM is great. Software upgradeable to GPRS is way cool. But OS 3.5? They'll be released nearly a year after OS 4 became available, so why use the old OS? It doesn't take THAT long to port modifications to a new version, if you know what you're doing. True, OS 4 is not a panacia compared to 3.5, but it does include some decent improvements, and you don't want to lock out developers who may want to use one or two OS 4 features to make their lives easier. That's shooting yourself in the foot, especially with 16 MB of RAM to fill up.

We'll also have to see how the keyboard model sells. After getting used to graffiti, I prefer it, but I can see where a lot of new Palm users will be attracted by the keyboard.

The lack of always-on connectivity off the bat is also a drawback. The leader in this area right now is RIM. They're big advantage is always-on push. If the Treo isn't always-on, then they can't compete with it. We'll have to wait for the i705 and hope that it can take on RIM. :-)

In all, though, good stuff.

RE: The loss of marketing
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 8:41:58 AM #
I don't have a marketing degree, but personally, I prefer the numbered models.
First of all, Platinum and Prism have no clear meaning and second, Deluxe, which implies top-of-the-line is really their bottom-of-the-line model.



RE: The loss of marketing
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:15:18 AM #
I have to agree, Handspring should wait and introduce this models when always-on is functional.
And as a Clie owner I get nervous when I hear the statement 'All I'm going to need is a software upgrade'

RE: The loss of marketing
Token @ 10/15/2001 12:14:14 PM #
The availability of "always on" is not a function of Handspring, but the carrier networks they are using (Voicestream, Cingular, and I assume Fido in Canada). GPRS has only limited TRIAL deployment in the US market (sorry Europe, I guess you are SOL again until the US catches up).

The fact the unit can be upgraded to GPRS via a software update is very cool ... provided that Handspring do not go down the Clie route and charge another $50 for something you should have been able to do from the start.

RE: The loss of marketing
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/10/2002 11:55:03 AM #
Handspring OS 3.5x and Handera OS 3.5x are approximately equivalent to Palm OS 4.0x, feature-wise.

Batteries

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 12:15:43 AM #
Are they replaceable or builtin?

RE: Batteries
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 2:47:12 AM #
Built-in (Lithium-Ion)

RE: Batteries
ahecht @ 10/15/2001 3:27:51 AM #
I'm not sure they're built in. There appears to be a battery door on the back of the unit.

RE: Batteries
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:18:35 AM #
I read the user manual back when it was on the FCC site
and it showed that was where you put a SIM card in. Its
not for batteries.

RE: Batteries
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/5/2002 5:03:01 AM #
Yest there is no acces to battery ? I have just bought on and wonder about the battery lifetime ? How many charges/decharges does it support ?
phc@starobject.com

RE: Batteries
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 10:53:50 AM #
the slot on the back panel is for the sim card. ther is no access to change battery. also to send sms in dark area is impossible the knob are not lighted.

My comments

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 12:25:37 AM #
1. Not tri-band? 900, 1800, 1900 GSM - why? (cost)?
2. No always on / push email?
3. $399 with activation - how much without? In any case, these combo-phone/pda's are going to be out of reach for most mass market consumers. Is the enterprise the target for this device???

I think the product to beat right now is the device demo'd at the Pocket PC 2002 launch. The combo phone/pda by Taiwanese manufacturer HTC:
http://www.microsoft.com/mobile/pocketpc/keynote.asp

Go to minute 50. For some reason, the full demo is not shown and you get "static" towards the end.

I'm impressed that Palminfocenter.com got the news up so quickly!

Price
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 12:39:15 AM #
I don't think we are going to see a good smartphone for alot less than $400 for a long time. Handspring would like to sell these for $99 but not when that won't half cover their costs. If that's out of the range of the average consumer, that's the way the world works. Its tough to say what the averge consumer will buy. I'd say the average consumer can't afford a $3 cup of coffee but millions buy them every day at Starbucks. If people think they need them, they'll buy them.

>> Is the enterprise the target for this device???
Read the end of the article.

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 12:59:48 AM #
Man these are cool! I don't know about anyone else but I am sold. Finally a smart design for a PALM OS PDA-Cell phone. These things will sell like hotcakes. Oh and by the way it's a list price of $400. I am sure they will give you something like $50 off for signing up to a phone package.

Peace!

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:25:02 AM #
The always-on functionality would have to be with the GPRS system; GSM by itself doesn't support always-on.

RE: MY comments
jeremyf @ 10/15/2001 1:39:08 AM #
This thing is NICE! I probably won't get one, since I don't want to give up some features, but if this cost less I could imagine getting a Treo in the future..

It's $549 without activation (so the color one will prolly be $749)... bit pricey! Also GPRS will be available through a software patch when it is "commercially available".. nice!

It also claims to be the "smallest Palm OS organizer yet"... it's 4.3" x 2.7" x 0.7" compared to the m125's 4.82" x 3.1" x 0.87".. that is pretty small!

I wish it had a Springboard slot (but I guess it's too small).. if it did, it would be unbeatable..

There's also going to be a trade-in offer for Visorphone users.. another NICE!

Plus a CDMA version is coming soon...

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:52:23 AM #
I was wrong it's $399 with the phone connection. They will plan to add the alway-on stuff later via a software upgrade. Check out the web site. There is an AMAZING amount of info and pictures on Handsprings site right now. I still say this is just too cool. I will be trading in my Sony Clie 320 and cell phone for this, that's for sure.

Peace!

Pocket PC SmartPhone...
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 5:49:08 AM #
If there were a PocketPC SmartPhone, you could imagine you talk to your friend for an hour and found out that the batteries were dead...

PC Smart Phone
Romanov @ 10/15/2001 8:41:23 AM #
There are two PPC smartphones on the UK market. The Trium Mondo and one from Motorola. The Trium, which has been on the market longest, is a 16Mb PPC and claims 100hr standby charge.

Its advertised as 450 (about $650) with connection.

Anyone had any experience of this PDA?

Nic Hughes

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:21:48 AM #
> I was wrong it's $399 with the phone connection. They will
> plan to add the alway-on stuff later via a software upgrade.

Facts you announce with excitement at finding on HandSpring's site are in this article. Did you read it? No offence, but maybe you'd make your life easier by reading it again more carefully.

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:29:02 AM #
Quote:
"Man these are cool! I don't know about anyone else but I am sold. Finally a smart design for a PALM OS PDA-Cell phone. These things will sell like hotcakes."

As P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute." However, you appear to think we're ALL suckers. You're entitled to find it cool, and if you want one, go for it. But "these things will sell like hotcakes?" Please!

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 10:40:31 AM #
You might not be pleased but Wall Street is. Handspring stock is up 40% today.

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 11:23:53 AM #
> Finally a smart design for a PALM OS PDA-Cell phone.

Samsung already has one out and it's in color too:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2183

And at least this one has memory expansion via SD/MMC.

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 12:07:18 PM #
I realize Samsung has one out too and in color, but I said "smart" design. The Samsung unit is a brick and it looks like very little RD went into it. This Treo is a work of art next to it. If you really NEED color then wait till mid next year and get the 270.

-Peace!

RE: My comments
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 5:01:04 PM #

I don't know what Palm is talking about, if yya ask me, The Treo with the keyboard looks like a Blackberry killer.

I'd say these gadgets are the best from Handspring yet.

They just down right look cool...

RE: My comments
mtg101 @ 10/16/2001 12:06:59 PM #
> Finally a smart design for a PALM OS PDA-Cell phone.
>Samsung already has one out and it's in color too:
>http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2183
>And at least this one has memory expansion via SD/MMC.

Dear oh dear - that samsung device is CDMA - only works in one or two countries in the world - and even then the coverage is sparadic!

The Treo range are the first true test of the combined PDA / hone.

Cheers
Russell

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
---
Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos
---

16 MB and OS 3.5

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 3:14:02 AM #
What's the maximum RAM possible with OS 3.5?
I always thought it was 8.

Just curious, because I've recently upgraded my trust worthy V from 2 to 8 MB. However, I still fing myself running out of memory.

RE: 16 MB and OS 3.5
ahecht @ 10/15/2001 3:23:04 AM #
The 8mb limit is imposed on the Vx by the processor, not the OS.

RE: 16 MB and OS 3.5
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:56:52 PM #
Its the EZ processor that creates the limit not the OS

$549 and it doesn't even come with a cradle!?!?!?!?

ahecht @ 10/15/2001 3:23:41 AM #
n/t

RE: $549 and it doesn't even come with a cradle!?!?!?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 10:11:45 AM #
its only $549 without a wireless service plan. that would make it much less useful than no cradle. otherwise $399.

RE: $549 and it doesn't even come with a cradle!?!?!?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/2/2002 4:20:04 PM #
Will old cradles from the visor PDA's work with this new Treo phone/PDA?

impressive collection of wireless service providers??????

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 4:13:14 AM #
"They have already lined up an impressive collection of wireless service providers. In the U.S., this includes Cingular and VoiceStream"
Wait a minute. I was very interested in a new mobile phone/pager by motorola, some imac blue whatchacallit, but they are only serviced by voicestream. I don't consider voicesteam to included in any list of "impressive collection of wireless service providers". I was going to buy Motorola's new device, okay okay, I'll get the real name, hold on....it's the V series model 100. I didn't buy it because of voicestream. They are not a major service provider if they don't have Coverage in CA (WHERE I LIVE!!!) since Cali probably is one of the biggest markets. This may not be a good move by handspring. Thanks a lot Jeff and Donna. This is what I get for buying your stock.

RE: impressive collection of wireless service providers?????
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:26:15 AM #
>> They also have agreements with companies in Canada and no less than eleven wireless providers in Europe. <<

So get service from a provider who does business in Canada. I think your compalint is silly. So they don't offer service in Canada. Canada has plenty of other providers. Every company can't offer service everywhere. There would have to be a cell phone tower every 50 feet over the entire North America. Build a bridge and get over it.

RE: impressive collection of wireless service providers??????
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:51:45 AM #
Erm...CA is the USPS abbreviation for California, not Canada, and has been for 20 years or so. Deal with THAT.


RE: impressive collection of wireless service providers??????
N473 @ 10/15/2001 10:01:26 AM #
He meant California, *not* Canada. DOH!

Cheers!
N473
---------------
www.N473.org
New Palm Site Coming Soon!
The California Attitude
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 10:06:36 AM #
Must be one of those people who divides the world into N America, S America, Europe, Asia, Africa, and California. There's some other continents too but they aren't half as important as California.

RE: impressive collection of wireless service providers??????
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:42:11 PM #
Voicestream does not have coverage in California but Cingular does. Both companies use the same network. Your phone will work in both coverage areas. Only roaming charges will apply if your in the other service's coverage.

RE: impressive collection of wireless service providers?????
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:49:42 PM #
Must be one of those people who divides the world into N America, S America, Europe, Asia, Africa, and California. There's some other continents too but they aren't half as important as California.

If California was a country it would have the 7th largest GNP in the world.

When I moved here (san diego) from chicago, I was amazed at how little native Califonians knew about the rest of the country, let alone the world. After a few yesrs here, I can see why.

Why would anyone ever go anywhere else? Great weather, plenty of jobs, cheap rent, nice people.

sorry to be so off topic.

-geekd

RE: Voicestream/Cingular Coverage ...
Token @ 10/15/2001 10:53:28 PM #
You might be interested in this : http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011015/tc/telecoms_deutschetelekom_voicestream_dc_1.html

Voicestream and Cingular are going to share infrastructure and spectrum licences ... so Voicestream users can roam in California and Nevada, and Cingular users can roam in NY. VERY common practice in European markets. Just hope that a call from a Cingular phone will be classed as "within network". Expect to see CDMA providers doing similar RSN.

Oh, and geekd ... where did you find cheap rent in SD??

AT&T TREO???
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/2/2002 6:47:30 PM #
I would probably buy this TREO if I can get with:

1. AT&T Wireless Service
2. COLOR Screen
3. Graffiti (No Keyboard)
4. Battery life comparable to Nokia 8260

What do you think the chances of getting all of this?

'Early 2002'

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 8:41:10 AM #
Whoopiee!! No dates, just a vague Early 2002 vaporware type announcement. Basically, that just means "Sometime Prior to July 1st, 2002." (I wouldn't be surprised if this thing shipped June 30th 2002, technically, it's still "early" in 2002) By that time Palm should be announcing their StrongARM device and shipping OS5. This Treo thing will be long out-dated.

Sad.

RE: 'Early 2002'
quake97 @ 10/15/2001 9:11:34 AM #
I agree, but as Handspring says that already have most of the stuff from OS 4 in their version of 3.5. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these things change in the next six months. This is just an annoucement, its a long way off before it shows up for real. At least it can be upgraded to GPRS and its already a world phone. I'll probably get one when it comes out.

Joe

RE: 'Early 2002'
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:34:45 AM #
You are confusing "early 2002" with "the first half of 2002". "Early 2002" is marketing-speak for first quarter. That means it will be March at the very latest. No-one, not even marketing goons, thinks June is early in 2002. All they are doing is not locking them selves into a date. They might have said "January 2002" but what if some shipping glitch came up and they didn't come out until February 3? There'd be people (and I use that term loosly) here screaming that everyone from Handspring should be horribly killed like they did when the Samsung I300 was a few days late.

RE: 'Early 2002'
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 10:46:32 AM #
OS4 is faster and if HS support it, it will be 100% compatible with the Palm Desktop, meaning I can run 2 types of Palm of my PC.

I'd want VFS on this Treo (another OS4 addition). It's so close to what I want, but I need a memory card. I wonder what Palm will offer in competition.

Oh... and on a marketing subject. The only time you preannounce a product is when you want to stall the target market from purchasing the competition's offering in favour of waiting for yours. So do they anticipate Palm's wireless model to beat them to the mark? Or is it to steal potential Kyocera customers?

>Handspring says that already have most of the stuff from OS 4 in their version of 3.5. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these things change in the next six months

RE: 'Early 2002'
bcombee @ 10/15/2001 1:20:59 PM #
One other reason why Palm OS 4.1 would be nice is that it has a whole telephony API that Palm has created as a standard way of controlling smart phone functions. While it is possible that Handspring has backported this, I don't think it is likely. I'd much rather see all of this phone development moved to the common API, so apps like TealPhone don't have to constantly rev new versions to support the different devices.

Still, since the device seems to be flashable to handle the GPRS update, maybe that will also bring a new OS version.

RE: 'Early 2002'
Token @ 10/15/2001 2:03:57 PM #
1. Is VFS support necessary on a device without removable storage? Maybe for a "FlashPlug" dongle type device, but otherwise ...
2. Was it Palm or Handspring that developed the Telephony API? Much of the innovation in the PalmOS 4.x has been supplied by third parties - notably USB, colour, jogwheels, and alternate resolutions, so what is there that says the new version on the Treo will not have this functionality as well.

RE: 'Early 2002'
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 4:16:24 PM #
When I say I need VFS, I mean I need an SD slot!

Hey! It makes the M100 look big!

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 9:24:09 AM #
Treo: 4.3" x 2.7" x 0.7"
m100: 4.66"x 3.12"x 0.72"
m500: 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.4"
m505: 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.5"
Edge: 4.7" x 3.1" x 0.44"
Vx: 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.4"

Screen may end up being too small? If it's readable, then Bravo, HS!!

RE: Hey! It makes the M100 look big!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 10:52:15 PM #
Treo: 4.3" x 2.7" x 0.7"
m100: 4.66"x 3.12"x 0.72"
m500: 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.4"
m505: 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.5"
Edge: 4.7" x 3.1" x 0.44"
Vx: 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.4"

Screen may end up being too small? If it's readable, then Bravo, HS!!

You forgot...

Clie n760C : 4.75" x 2.88" x 0.69"

Its almost as narrow as the Treo. Interestingly enough i thing its width or narrowness that is the most important dimension when it comes to fitting in someones hand.

Treo: 8.13, 153g
m100: 10.47, 124g
m500: 5.58, 120g
m505: 6.98, 139g
Edge: 6.41, 136
Vx: 5.58, 119g
n760C: 9.44, 162g

The figures above are the volume and weight of the units

As you can see dispite the fact that the n760c is MUCH bigger in terms of volume then the Vx or m500, it actually feels smaller when you have it in your hand. I would presume thats because the n760 is one of the narrowest PDA's around. However the n760 is still a lot heavier then the other units but it didnt surpass the 6oz mark or 170g.

I think something that is often overlooked which should be included in all reviews is the actual screen size. Take for example the m100 vs the Vx. The m100 is almost twice as big but its screen is about 20% smaller. It would be interesting to see how big the screen of the Treo's are.


Graffiti Area, IMAP4, Expansion Slot, Color

Deslock @ 10/15/2001 10:53:48 AM #
The color model might only come with the keyboard? That will prevent me from buying it... I'd rather be stuck using graffiti or the on screen keyboard for composing messages, and still have all my DA apps and graffiti shortcuts.

Handspring... if you read this, give us these 4 things on one of these devices:

- Graffiti area
- IMAP4 email with SSL
- SD expansion slot
- Color

It seems to me that shouldn't be too much of a stretch over the specs you have now...


RE: Graffiti Area, IMAP4, Expansion Slot, Color
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:38:19 PM #
An interesting idea might be to put the keyboard on the outside of the flip top. Then a normal graffiti( or virtual graffiti)area could be underneath. Best of both worlds, I think.

RE: Graffiti Shortcuts
rueyeet @ 10/15/2001 3:04:06 PM #
I was looking around Handspring's Treo pages, and on the How it Works page the enlarged photo of the bottom of the Treo 180 the button to the rightmost of the keyboard's space bar looked like it had the Graffiti command stroke on it. If my eyes haven't deceived me, this would allow full use of all command-stroke functionality from Graffiti. Maybe there's also a shortcut symbol key in the keyboard as well, which would mean Graffiti shortcuts could be used as well.

Of course, on the button I'm talking about, I think I also saw the "Home" symbol in blue; I guess that key is Command and Fn+key (or some such) is Home. In any case I can't see why Handspring would get rid of any of the Palm OS' usability or convenience by taking command-strokes and shortcuts out of their flaunted new all-in-one device.

my two cents...anyone got change for a dollar?

RE: Graffiti Area, IMAP4, Expansion Slot, Color
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 4:19:06 PM #
- Graffiti area
- IMAP4 email with SSL
- SD expansion slot
- Color


Yup. I'd want a SD slot too. All the rest is or will be available. Heck MultiMail supported IMAP4 with SSL back in 1999.



RE: Graffiti Area, IMAP4, Expansion Slot, Color
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/29/2002 5:16:44 AM #
I want 270 with color and graffiti (the rest can be extra :) ). A Palm with a keyboard is sooooooo unnatural! Imagine you have to use stylus to tap and use keyboard to enter text.

Why two types of input methods? Sure the keyboard looks cute, but in function-wise, nuh! Drop that damn keyboard.

Compromises

robrecht @ 10/15/2001 11:14:40 AM #
As convenient as a combined phone-pda sounds from the point of portability, there are always compromises made in the design and functioality of such devices.

For example, battery time:
This unit promises 2 hours or talk time and 60 hours of standby. Currently, the Motorola V Series 60c promises up to 240 minutes of talk time and up to 242 hours of standby time when used with the high performance battery.

Thanks, Robrecht

RE: Compromises
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 11:31:21 AM #
And one of the bigger compromises of all: a non-upgradeable OS.

Yet, even now, Handspring still has not learned..

RE: Compromises
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 4:19:49 PM #
Read closer troll, it has flash memory.

RE: Compromises
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 4:21:42 PM #
I think the Treo is flashable. GPRS is a software upgrade so I assume the OS is flashable.

RE: Compromises
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 4:53:36 PM #
Read the FAQ. the phone software is flashable, the OS is not. There are probably 3, count them, 3 ram chips. 1 16 meg one. 1, NONFLASHABLE for the OS, and one for the phone.

I hate fat phones!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 11:25:51 AM #
I'd rather carry a slim pda and a small phone and have bluetooth connectivity than this cramp-into-one monster. Sure need some "Fat Bastard Cream" (Full Monty).

C'mon Sony and Palm, you can do better than that! Give me 16 bit 320x320 Hi-res with built in bluetooth and MP3 in a M505 case, and I'll gladly take you home!

RE: I hate impossible demands
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 11:46:01 AM #
I'm so tired of hearing that all someone wants is just [list of impossible demands]. Why stop at the m505 size? As long as we're talking the impossible, I want it to be smaller than a pin with a holographic display and telepathic powers. Oh yeah, it also needs to detect tachyon emissions. I sympathize with people's wish lists but put some thought into what is possible with current technology before issuing your lists of demands. Its like writing to Ford and telling them you'll only buy a car from them when it can get 200 miles to the gallon. They'll be happy to sell you one, once it is physically possible. In the mean time, you'll have to accept 60 at the most and that cramming more and more equipment into a handheld will raise its price and increase its size.

Your computers must be using vacuum tubes.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 12:49:26 PM #
C'mon, how difficult is that? Before this year, who would have thought that Sony can cramp double the number of pixels into a case the size of Palm III? I don't see that is impossible since Sony already has the finishing product. All it needs is to make it just a little thinner and wider.

If I was being unreasonable, I would have added voice recognition (already in the works), plasma display with DTS/dolby built-in for movies, automatic payment gateway and mobile certificate, bio-sensors for continuous health monitoring and 3-d accelerator module for games, all in one m505 case.

See the difference, cave man?

RE: I hate fat phones!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 10:56:06 PM #
it actually isnt possible yet. the m50x is FULL. the only reason the left rail was shrunk was because otherwise it wouldnt all fit inside. now, for the m505 they added thickness. the m505 is also full. a higher rez screen would take up more space - aint gonna happen. adding bluetooth DEFINATELY adds space. mp3, not a big deal.

anyways, my point: its not possible YET. well, not cost-effectively anyways

How is Ferrari cost effective??
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 11:14:46 PM #
It's not!!!

And there are incentives to go since currently most PPC machines are way up in terms of prices. To cramp those all-into-one would require smaller parts than what is availabe now, which is not an issue since the pentium chip and the pentium III chip is not that big of a difference to me.

And personally I don't care about the left rail since it could fit a stylus anyways. Punch two holes (top and bottom) and design a clip on style case should be sufficient for protection purposes.

Any more comments against innovation?

'Call for innovation'== 'Pointless bleating'.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/16/2001 1:12:40 AM #
Please - since you apparently know what is possible, and know it better than the people who design these devices for a living - Go get a job in the field and start implementing. We'd love to see you produce The Perfect Handheld and prove to us once and for all that you know exactly what the hell you're talking about.

What, you /don't/ have an EE degree?
Or any experience at hardware design?
You don't understand phrases like 'Economy of scale' and 'tooling a production run'?
Surely you know how to design a case for ease of mass production, right? You don't?

Could you tell me why you're shooting your mouth off again, please?

So I suppose Louis Gestner has a doctoral degree in EE....
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/16/2001 2:40:00 PM #
And that he needs one because he is the CEO of a high tech company....HAHA!

And Ferrari of course is going bankrupt while winning this years fomula one Grand Prix....

People need to know what is possible and get ahead and do it, not "this is not possible, that's too new" Perhaps this is what America is all about....they make everything big and bulky and think people would like it. Think who shrunk the cars, LCD TVs, and give us notebooks weighing 2 pounds....the Japanese.

Newton died partly because of its fat and heavy case, so it is really time to start innovating and stop this" it is not possible, cost effective, blah blah blah." No one would buy a car because it is not cost effective, let alone Ferrari.

Wonder how they survive...erh....

BTW, I don't mind taking up the post of CEO at Palm.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/16/2001 2:54:16 PM #
I may not make it as successful as Mercedes, but I sure will put in the resources for innovation and R&D to remain competitive.

Board of directors, how about that?

RE: I hate fat phones!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/21/2002 4:06:39 AM #
come on guys, people have spent countless of time, effort, money, passion, love, ideas, testing, debugging before a new product is released, and the truth is, these new gadget product help us a lot. no more paper notebook, no more tape players, no more bring a heavy laptop, appreciate the creator/manufacturer for their great effort. have you been in the product development cycle ? from start to end ? of course what you wanna the smaller screen, the 3D engine in a palm, with dolby stereo system isn't impossible but it takes time, assume your ideal PDA is going to be launched in 10 years time, then you have your PDA 10 years later. it is just matter of time and when you're getting it. who knows one day the PDA is embedded into your brain. but you need to wait for another 200 years. but at present shut your mouth and wait.

bye

RE: I hate fat phones!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/24/2002 4:55:38 PM #
Poo

Ooof! Groan..I've been kicked in the wallet!

scat_sweeney @ 10/15/2001 11:29:56 AM #
I have to say that this is a great product but alas, I am just a man. I think that if I were to buy this I would only use the "Palm" features. I have a cell but I only call my wife regularly and a few other occasional calls. I'm sure that there are a few people out there that will use all the features of this PDA but I wonder if there are enough to really make this product successful. Hmmm...perhaps if I were some kind of modeling agent with name like Zamphire and dressed all in black then maybe (oh ya, and have plenty-o-dinero). I think I'll just stick with the regular PDA's and keep my cell separate.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Commit random acts of coolness.
RE: Ooof! Groan..I've been kicked in the wallet!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 12:12:27 PM #
I am a college student who only uses my cell phone for calls. I have one regular phone in my appartment with plain regular old local tone on it. Any long distance calls I use on my cell. I also have a Sony Clie 320 that I use to keep my college and work life in sync. A unit like this would be a god send to me. I hate having to manually phone key type my names and numbers into my cell for quick dial and it's really fast to use 2 different electronic units at once. Plus it would mean less bulk to carry on me. I'm not one to go for the Batman utility belt look and carry 20 different gadgets.

-Peace!

RE: Ooof! Groan..I've been kicked in the wallet!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 11:54:13 PM #
Good point. I am...shall we say...financialy challenged so in other words I have little money to put towards combining my electronics. What I'm trying to say is that the price is what is keeping me from purchasing such a wonderful product.

2002? Huh?

kevdo @ 10/15/2001 12:09:15 PM #
While I believe these devices are extremely promising (this coming from someone who has generally preferred Palm models over Handspring's), am I the only one wondering "huh???".

Didn't Handspring learn ANYTHING from the m500/m505 pre-announcement?

Where are all the Handspring/Sony/Handera trolls who have beat up Palm unrelentlessly over the "bad call" of pre-announcing the m500/m505 earlier this year? This is extremely similar!

Plus, the announcement of the color model is hardly going to help enable the grayscale models sell like hotcakes when the 180 series is introduced (one presumes before March-ish...)

I am disappointed that Handspring is preannouncing these models. I was hoping they'd get these things going sooner, esp. since Palm delayed the i700.

I guess the Palm's delay of the i700 isn't just about Palm being a company in trouble, eh trolls??

-Kevin Crossman

RE: 2002? Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:18:06 PM #
Preannouncing is an old tactic designed to kill off sales of your competition. Handspring has managed to boost it's stock price, demoralize Palm and create interest in its products by announcing these units. And if no-one is buying the VisorPhone, they aren't even cannibalizing their own sales. All things considered, this was a good strategic decision on their part - something that can't be said for Palm's suicidal blunder with the m505.

Some people will be happy to not have to carry two separate devices all the time. I personally would prefer to have a tiny cell phone that could act as a modem (e.g. via Bluetooth) and a Palm Vx-sized PDA with CompactFlash expansion, a color CLIE screen and a tiny, screen-only cover like the ones sold by Parallel Design (http://www.paralleldesign.com/). HandEra could make a killing if they would design such a PDA, style it similar to the Vx and release it in plain black. Since HandEra's too out of touch to do this, expect Sony to start dominating the market for professionals wanting sleek, high end PDAs.

RE: 2002? Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:47:14 PM #
I think you are a troll. How long has Microsoft announced PocketPC 2002 before releasing it? How long did they do the same announcing XP? How long does every car maker announce a new model before the final release? These new marvels from Handspring only compete actually with the Kyocera Smartphone and the I300, but they are much smaller, powerful and convenient. If you are so good at marketing, how come you are not working for Palm, Handspring, Sony, IBM, Compaq, Kyocera, Samsung, HandEra, Casio, HP, Microsoft, etc., etc., etc.?

RE: 2002? Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:51:44 PM #
From TheStreet.com:
    For squeamish investors, Handspring's preview of a device that isn't shipping will induce flashbacks from Palm's (PALM:Nasdaq - news - commentary - research - analysis)situation earlier in 2001. Handspring's rival touted its upcoming m500 family line months before it was able to ship the devices in volume, with the result that it hurt sales of its own already existing high-end PDAs. Handspring management insists this situation is different because Handspring doesn't have a device comparable to the Treo. Handspring's aim seems to be to head off big spenders migrating toward competitors during the Christmas season and alert them that a combined phone/organizer is coming.

    "This is not going to stop someone who's buying a $199 organizer for Christmas," says Handspring Chief Operating Officer Ed Colligan, who's not worried about the timing. Colligan argues that a $399 device with accompanying phone plan costs rules out most bargain-shopping holiday buyers. "It's not terribly cannibalistic. We're building the market, getting people ready."

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/hardware/10002334.html

RE: 2002? Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 2:06:42 PM #
Looks like this proves the earlier comment wasn't a troll!

RE: 2002? Huh?
Jake @ 10/15/2001 6:28:04 PM #
Palms mistake was not pre-announcing. It was announcing a new product at the same time they had HUGE amounts of inventory. When car makers announce new models they have often already began closing out their old inventory.

RE: 2002? Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 7:04:02 PM #
Wrong. Palm made several mistakes and also had some bad luck.

- They leaked info and announced prematurely because they felt pressure to make it look like they were innovating. They were worried that Handspring's Edge was going too blow them away.

- They entered into agreements with suppliers for a huge amounts of parts, anticipating that the demand for their handhelds would keep rising exponentially. They were wrong and ended up writing off a few hundred million in inventory.

- Their m500/m505 manufacturer had production problems leading to delays.

- They used a substandard screen on the m505, thinking consumers would continue being dumb enough to buy anything with a Palm logo.

- Earlier, they licensed the Palm OS to Handspring and then Sony (for less than $10 per license) not thinking that these companies would end up siphoning off Palm's sales of their profitable hardware. Had they kept the OS to themselves, consumers would have kept buying Palms because they were "the only game in town".

- They became fat, lazy, and complacent after several years of booming sales achieved with almost no attempt to innovate or develop the platform. Compare the original Pilots to the III, IIIxe, m105, etc. Not much different other than some cosmetic changes and a few more MB of RAM.


Look where they are now. By the end of the year, Sony will progably have over 20% market shere, Handspring 25 - 30%, and it will just get worse from there. As Palm sells less and less handhelds - especially less of the profitable high-end units - their losses will continue to mount. No company can sustain the losses they have quarter after quarter. Expect Sony or IBM to buy the company in the next few months.

- Pundeet Sage

RE: 2002? Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 8:16:06 PM #
Some of your points are right, some are not.

>> Had they kept the OS to themselves, consumers would have kept buying Palms because they were "the only game in town". <<

A big part of Palm's success has been that they are the leader of the Palm Platform, not just a company with proprietary hardware and software. Look at how much grief Sony has gotten for pushing their proprietary Memory Sticks. Many developers were willing to write software for the Palm OS because they knew they wouldn't be beholden to one company. Microsoft would probably have closer to 50% of the handheld market than the 15% they actually have because of the innovation the Palm licensees have brought.

>> Expect Sony or IBM to buy the company in the next few months. <<<

It'll be a long time before this happens. For one, Palm won't have a hostile take over because they have put "poison pill" measures into place that would destroy the company if anyone tried. And Palm's management is unlikely to surrender control voluntarily. What would Palm's management have to gain from a buyout? Mostly they'd all be out of jobs and be known as the people who ran a successful company into the ground. But if they can turn it around, finding new jobs will be alot easier.

RE: 2002? Huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/17/2001 7:02:11 PM #
> Microsoft would probably have closer to 50% of the handheld market than the 15% they actually have because of the innovation the Palm licensees have brought.

I hope you don't really believe the B.S. you wrote above. Most of the Palm being sold today are almost indistinguishable from the original Pilots from 5 years ago.

> It'll be a long time before this happens.

We'll see in a few months who was right...

> What would Palm's management have to gain from a buyout? Mostly they'd all be out of jobs and be known as the people who ran a successful company into the ground. But if they can turn it around, finding new jobs will be alot easier.

Do you know ANYTHING about how big business operates? Do you think the board of directors is going to sit still and watch the company die over the next three months? Palm is almost completely out of cash and its prospects are dismal. (No new products, poor sales, cutthroat competition from its licensees, no money generated from OS sales, delayed OS 5, competition from PocketPC, loss of a potential alliance with a company that could have given Palm credibility in its goal to become a business solution, incompetent management, inertia from years of non-development, etc, etc.) Their only positives are the Palm name recognition and loyalty of their customers. How long will it take for Sony to win the majority of PDA buyers over?


Loved it!

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:49:13 PM #
It looks like a wonderful product, i might get one for me.

Now, how long until Microsoft steals the concept/design/etc and comes up with a clone that will hurt Handspring badly?

DOJ, have we learned yet?

RE: Loved it!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 1:56:12 PM #
Microsoft has been working on its "Stinger" smartphone OS since 1999. It took them 2 years but soon they will have an OS capable of doing something close to what the Treo can do. Of course, being a MS device they will cost about $700-$800 and be the size of an encyclopedia.

RE: Loved it!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 2:15:01 PM #
No wonder they haven't finish their product in these past two years. There wasn't anything to copy from. LOL!

Dumb Marketing

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 2:35:49 PM #
Talk about dumb marketing. Take a great idea and ruin it. First, choose a transmission mode that has limited coverage, and spotty coverage even in the areas where it exists. Second, make sure the phone has no analog mode. If you go out of the coverage area you have no phone service at all! Better not have car trouble late at night with this phone as your only means of communication.

RE: Dumb Posting
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 2:54:21 PM #
This system is used almost exclusively in Europe and should become predominant in the US in a near future.

RE: AT&T
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 3:05:43 PM #
Rumor has it AT&T is going to give up what it's using now and switch to GSM/GPRS . Hopefully someday there will be just one standard. Even if it isn't the best option, having 3 or 4 competing "standards" really stinks.

RE: Dumb Marketing
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 5:10:12 PM #
I agree... phone companies suck! when the new cpu is out... I am gonna use an mpeg algorythem and start doin internet phone through omnisky or something... ya only need about 4kpbs and with plenty of redundancy in a ~100kpbs connection, the calls can be pretty small and not too latent... could do video pretty easily to... imagine how long its gonna take for someone like voicestream to offer video...

RE: Dumb Marketing
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 7:06:49 PM #
I heard that GSM is supported in about 170 countries w/ 500 million subscribers. The U.S. is just slow in getting GSM coverage across the whole area.

Need GPRS and Push Email

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 2:42:02 PM #
Once GPRS coverage and prices and push email come into line, I'm all over the color model (Kudos to Handspring making the device software upgradable for both. I'm an adult, I don't need video or MP3.

RE: Need GPRS and Push Email
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 5:43:55 PM #
> I'm an adult, I don't need video or MP3.

What? You don't watch "adult" video or listen to "adult" contemorary music? :p

I could not resist...

RE: Need GPRS and Push Email
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 6:12:52 PM #
Push email will be availible as a software upgrade.

RE: Need GPRS and Push Email
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/16/2001 11:44:04 PM #
> I'm an adult, I don't need video or MP3.

you must be an old boring adult...



Treo 270 color resolution

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 10:53:08 PM #
Anybody have any ideas or guesses as to what resolution the color version will have?

From the pictures, it looks like it will have a square screen so its either 160x160 or 320x320.

RE: Treo 270 color resolution
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/16/2001 1:18:53 AM #
Just my opinion, but when the screen size is small 160 x 160 is OK. Pixilattion is less noticeable. But I don't know what the 270 will be

Why GSM

randomguy1900 @ 10/16/2001 2:21:36 PM #
Yes GSM is a great service but not in America, we are a CDMA country. I think handspring seriously needs to think about releasing a CDMA, mostly a Sprint or Verizon version of the treo. I know that I really enjoy this pone, but I am not going to buy it for the same reason that I didnt buy a visor phone and this is because it is a GMS based phone. I would pick it up mostly the color version is I could get service through the Sprint. Also I predict that if the Sprint version of the visor phone comes out it will out sell the other because of the netwoirk...Remember people you buy a service not a phone. Over alla great idea but in this country I would really think about a CDMA version.

Rob
RE: Why GSM
randomguy1900 @ 10/16/2001 2:26:18 PM #
Also one thing i forgot is that next january Sprint is upgrading their wireless web service to a always on hif=gh speed conection, if Handspring would just let Sprint doo the Wireless web then the unit would slap around anything that is on any other network including omnisky, go America nd the crappy palmnet and their new handheld if it ever surifices,

Rob
RE: Why GSM
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/16/2001 11:29:17 PM #
I think thats the type of thinking that has keeped America out of the mobile phone loop. Its well known that the US in terms of mobile phone technology is way behind from the rest of the world. While the rest of the world has adopted GSM and all have been interconnected, the US has isolated itself.

Besides more then the fact that it is in the GSM format is the fact that it will be GPRS upgradable. We all know that GPRS is the next step to 3G. We all know what thats all about.

I think its a great statement by handspring that they chose that format. Its ensuring its place in the mobile industry and establishing itself as a global brand.

RE: Why GSM
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/19/2001 4:54:59 PM #
sheesh.....

If you bother to read the whole of the info available on the Handspring site they say flat out that development of a CDMA version is in the cards.

No voice recorder again? And more...

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/16/2001 8:32:28 PM #
No voice recorder again?.. With the built-in microphone, why don't they implement voice recorder? No more hardware needed.

Also not only hi-res screen we need, look at HandEra. I'd like to see something like reflective color 320x420 screen with soft graffiti area.

And, of course, it is 21st century, why external antenna again? Built-in antenna must be much more comfortable.

And the last. Look at the speaker in the flip. Every current palm model have _detachable_ flip, but Treo use it as an active element. I don't like covers and prefer to detach it as soon as possible. Why not to built the speaker in the back side of the unit?


RE: No voice recorder again? And more...
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/16/2001 11:10:07 PM #
Your talking like its easy to make this stuff. I think what you fail to see is how small this unit is. Its pretty compact for a PDA and the fact that they crammed a phone in there is pretty amazing as well. Im certain they considered all these things before they came up with a design. However i do agree with the flip cover/mic design. It should have been on the unit.

The voice recorder i believe is not important. That doesnt apply to too many people anyway. Im afraid if that feature was incorporated it would have increased the price a little bit.

Not so difficult, I think
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/17/2001 3:27:10 PM #
I don't think this is such a difficult problem. Look at those last models of Nokia and Siemens phones with the built-in antenna, very compact models, such as Nokia 8210. Maybe Handpring just have no enough experience in mobile phones...

Voice recorder should not increased the price, because all needed hardware is already built-in. Microphone, speaker, memory - what else do you need for voice recorder? Only software and smart construction :)

The screen is not an easy question. Let's hope. Look at the Sony 770c with color 320x320 screen - looks cool.


RE: No voice recorder again? And more...
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/17/2001 3:56:30 PM #
Your missing the point. This is a communications handheld. Not an all-in-one, do-everything-possible handheld. If there was extra room in there for a voice recorder and a high res screen, they would have still left them out and made the casing even smaller. To be a success, you need to focus your products. Everyone in the world would like to add just one more feature. If they went down that path, it would soon be as heavy and expensive as the PPC version will be.

"I don't know the secret of success, but the sure route to failure is trying to please everyone." -Bill Cosby

You're wrong. All sides must be harmonious. Imagine:
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/24/2001 2:45:24 PM #
You're wrong. All sides must be harmonious. Imagine: your PC have latest Pentium4 1.2 GHz, but only 4 MB RAM, or CGA video adapter with 320x200... Unusable? Sure. Communicator is exactly the same - all components should be fine, then whole device will be fine.

1 kg of honey + 1 kg of **** = 2 kg of **** ;)


ATT rolling out GSM/GPRS as fast as they can

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/19/2001 4:50:05 PM #
A simple web search (even those pesky newsgroups) will bring up info that indicates that ATT is rolling out GSM with GPRS pretty damned fast. They expect to have service in the top 40 markets by the end of this year and in top 100 markets by the end of 2002.

Since there are 'no more new pocketnet phones' the ATT pocketnet service might be headed towards the dustbin.

Hopefully, ATT will allow activation of a sim card for the treo to keep their pocketnet customer base happy.

Oh yah, I forgot, it's ATT. One can hope though.

And on the other paw the FCC has mandated that the portability of mobile phone numbers be implemented no later than November of 2002.

RE: ATT rolling out GSM/GPRS as fast as they can
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/1/2002 4:28:28 PM #
> They expect to have service in the top 40 markets by
> the end of this year and in top 100 markets by the
> end of 2002.

Uh, this _is_ 2002, what do you mean?


can it act as an infrared modem for a laptop?

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/29/2001 1:06:34 AM #
Anyone know whether a Treo will be able to act as an infrared modem for a laptop computer, in order to hook the laptop to an ISP? This is a feature I need, that my Visorphone can't do. If the Treo can't do it either, then I don't see much point in upgrading -- but if the Treo can do it, then I'll be *very* interested in getting one!

RE: can it act as an infrared modem for a laptop?
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/25/2002 2:34:46 PM #
Handspring customer service says the Treo will not function as a modem for a laptop.

RE: can it act as an infrared modem for a laptop?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 10:47:17 AM #
That's a real shame. I'm having trouble comprehending why they would have chosen to omit this feature -- nearly every current phone that has an infrared port allows the port to be used as an infrared modem.


RE: can it act as an infrared modem for a laptop?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:44:03 PM #
Does anyone know of ANY palm phone, or even other PDA phone, which can serve as a modem for laptop either by IR or by cable? This is a must have for me, since I already use my phone for this...
RE: can it act as an infrared modem for a laptop?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/30/2002 7:56:24 AM #
With the program treomodem downloadable from www.notifymail.com/palm/#wirelessmodem it is possible to use the treo as modem for laptops etc
greetz

Truly 3-for-1?

molljs @ 12/20/2001 12:31:52 PM #
My name is Justin and I am a resident pediatric MD. I was hoping someone could help me answer this question. Do any of these devices truly act as a pager or is the presumption that mobile phone = pager? In most areas of the hospital, whereas mobile phone signals are blocked, pagers are still able to receive pages. Any insight offered would be appreciated.

Ugly as sin!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 7:10:43 PM #
I'd just like to say, that's how the version with the little keyboard on looks. As well as probably a massive pain to type more than the barest of memos on. According to the stats it's about 3 inches across, which even with just the 10 QWERTYUIOP letters is tiny keys territory. Give us the graffiti instead, it'll probably be quicker... Buttons that larger-handed people such as myself smush all together are acceptable on things such as a cellphone, the motorola v100 (as you're only doing, what, 160 characters per message?), or a little 8kb pocket addressbook; not on a machine where you're likely to be entering quite a lot of info.

Plus, as I originally said - it's UGLY! :)

Great

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 11:32:41 AM #
I Want one now !

This is Hawkin's great new "Breakthrough Product" ????

Tinuviel @ 2/23/2002 12:18:40 AM #
Hmmm a palm that is also a phone- where have I seen that before? Hate to tell you guys this but Samsung has already released a superior version of this a year ago- one that has a COLOR screen (What a concept) a soft grafiti imput which allows a resolution of 160x240 and has twice the battery length as the Treo- Albeit it is a whole half an ounce heavier than this Black & white (or should I say green and white?)Treo.

So what makes this Treo a "breakthrough product"? Well Hawkins has decided to replace Grafiti imput with a miniscule keyboard with sub-chicklet size keys- for which we have to sacrifice screen size. Wait a sec- Didn't Hawkins invent Grafiti as a way to get away from the tiny miniscule chicklet keyboards of the clamshells in the 80's? Wasn't the Palm Pilot with keyboardless data entry the "Breakthrough Product" which started the whole Palm revolution? Now we're going backward to clamshells, tiny hard to read green and white screens, and miniscule keyboards???

Thank God they still have Sony- because apparently not even the founder of Palm has any more good ideas. Although who knows- maybe the next version of the Palm OS will be based on the BeOS kernel- and we'll be able to play the trailer to Star Wars II at 1024x768 32bit color in 50 windows simultaneously on our Palms-
Hey it could happen!

battery life

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 10:33:12 AM #
I bought my treo 180g in Hongkong 2 weeks ago. I'm happy with that . some problems happened that It's impossible to send SMS in dark area while the knobs are not lighted. and the battrey life talk time after charge until full is less than 40 minutes and I have to charge again while with normal phone I can change with spare battery.
Troublesome

RE: battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:48:16 AM #
Hi, User in Hong Kong,
Have you encountered any other problems in using TREO in Hong Kong? I am currently using 1010 as my cell phone service provider. Are you using the same? I am thinking seriously to buy one. Any comments from you will be precious for me. It will be very helpful if answers to the following questions are known:

1. Divert call easily?
2. Track missed call?
3. Able to pick data saved in 3COM Palm?

Thanks a lot.

RE: battery life
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/12/2002 11:02:13 AM #
Call forwarding is possible after the recent update downloaded from Handspring.
Missed call list is no problem and so is transfer of data from previous palm.
The biggest complaint i have is also the battery life. I have to bring charger to office sometimes if I have a busy day.
Also the Treo do not have search function as featured in other version of Palm OS.
The integration of phone and PDA works great especially with keyboard. I send sms faster than ever!

Color Treo is the greatest thing. Name me any competition...

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/16/2002 11:29:16 PM #
I can't believe it...this thing is the most amazing palm we have ever seen and yet everyone is bitching...
It's the smallest combination of a palm and a phone, it has wireless internet and it's going to be color!
Who cares if it doesn't run palm 4 software...
And the price? Most of the people use a cell phone, so if you have a palm, it would cost you around "Treo" price.
Beats all of the pocket pc products because palm is still winning, and I don't think Sony is a competition since it has nothing to offer excepts its color screen.
Overall, I am very impressed with this product and Will replace my CLie 760, as soon as color Treo comes out,

Treo 270

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/27/2002 2:42:59 PM #
I was wondering, if the new Treo 270 (which is finally available) offers the possibility to be used as an infrared-modem for e.g. a notebook (HSCSD, GPRS)? I am very interested in this product from Handspring, but if this option is not available, then there is no use in buying for me...
Also: Does anybody have current info about the battery life of a Treo 270?
Any REAL-LIFE-INFO about the 270 is appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
-chris
RE: Treo 270
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/24/2002 2:51:42 PM #
sir
send me rates and catalogue on email and tell me
web site to see catalogue,the most reasonable prices
will result 5000pcs purchase at a time.every thing
for india,regards,vrasu.
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