Comments on: Handspring Treo Launches on Monday (Updated)

Update: Some of this preliminary information turned out to be incorrect. The latest article has all the correct info.

Handspring's Treo line of smartphones will be announced on Monday, according to ZDnet. Citing "sources", it goes on to say that the mobile phones with the Palm OS won't be immediately available and will cost about $400.

In August, Handspring received approval from the FCC for not one but two new wireless handhelds capable of handling both voice and data. The Treo k180, has a built-in keyboard like the Blackberry pager and no Graffiti area. The other model, the Treo g180, relies on the traditional Graffiti for text input..

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A controlled trial of keyboard preferences

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:30:56 AM #
Which do you think will sell better, the keyboard version or the grafitti version???

RE: A controlled trial of keyboard preferences
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:37:50 AM #
thumb typing is marginally faster than grafitti and doesn't require you to learn anything (except know how to type in the first place). I think if this gets adopted by pda newbies, the keyboard version appeal to them. the grafitti version will appeal to current palm users who have decent grafitti skills. Which will be more popular? who is actually going to buy this thing? newbies or current users?

RE: A controlled trial of keyboard preferences
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:00:34 AM #
I think Handspring is going to market these to big comapanies as a way to keep their mobile employees in touch. With both voice and email and the ease of creating custom apps to tie in to their backend systems, these could do pretty good.

This means lots of newbies. Execs who still have trouble using Outlook. I don't think trying to teach them Grafitti will work too good so the keyboard will be the way to go.

Have to admit, I'm tempted by the keyboard. I've been using Grafitti for years and I still can't get through a long word without a screw up. My regular hand-writing is unreadable too. If a human can't read what I write, the computer barely has a chance. Keyboards are also faster.

RE: A controlled trial of keyboard preferences
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:29:41 AM #
I guess I have never tried one but I am surprised that you guys say the thumb keyboards are faster.

I will have to try one out.

My grafiti has improved a lot since I got 'teal echo' I use it a few days out of the month and it helps to get rid of sloppy tendencys that hurt recognition.

RE: A controlled trial of keyboard preferences
sub_tex @ 10/12/2001 10:41:58 AM #
I think having both would be best.

take a look at the first pda on this page - http://www.pdabuzz.com/Features/CES2001/index3.html

the Sharp Zaurus MI-E1 has the thumb keypad in a hidden area. Just yank down the bottom half of the PDA and you got a keyboard. If not, it slides up under the screen and you can use your pda as usual.

Great great feature in my book.

Keyboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 5:26:50 PM #
I wish Handspring every success with this new product but, personally, I can't help thinking that this is a retrograde step. Graffiti is arguably Geoff Hawkins' most valuable contribution; it is one of the foundations for his success (both at Palm and now at Handspring). I don't understand why they now want to go to a keyboard with all the disadvantages that entails.

GPRS?

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:39:31 AM #
What network are these going to run on? GPRS, I hope.

RE: GPRS?
mtg101 @ 10/12/2001 9:56:46 AM #
From what I remember of the previous news articles these will be running on GSM. Plus if it was GPRS you'd see phrases like 'always-on' and 'Blackberry' being mentioned.

However, at least they're GSM, and not some proprietory standard only used in one or two countries, ie CDMA.

Cheers
Russell

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
---
Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos
---

RE: GPRS?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:58:26 AM #
Before the FCC pulled the info, it said these use GSM 900 MHz and PCS 1.9 GHz.

RE: GPRS?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 12:41:33 PM #
yeah, except CDMA is superior to GSM/TDMA

I thought these were Triband GSM models?
Token @ 10/12/2001 1:22:02 PM #
As in, "they would work internationally". I don't recall GPRS being a feature that was listed in the FCC article. If an announcment is being made Monday, I guess the FCC will relist the approval notice and we can get more details again then.

RE: GPRS?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 3:55:47 PM #
"yeah, except CDMA is superior to GSM/TDMA"

Beta was also superior to VHS...

Sorry. Couldn't resist. Carryon.
;)

here we go again

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:41:46 AM #
Am I the only only one who's a little concerned that Handspring may be making a bit of a blunder, similar mto the m500 fiasco, by releasing a high-end handheld with a monochrome screen in the midst of a slowing economy and not have it immediately available? I realize that handspring doesn't have any other wireless handhelds, but if people decide to wait for this to become available rather than buy a different Handspring model, chances are the Edge will do even worse than before (if possible) and the two new handhelds will drop in sales as well.
Just a thought.

-kezza

RE: here we go again
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:55:12 AM #
Yeah, $400 for a monochrome device is starting to seem a bit steep these days. Also seems like no expansion option is a step back too, since pretty much every device released these days at least has some option.

PDA Manufacturers Are Scamming Consumers
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:55:14 AM #
There is absolutely no reason for not including a color screen in any "high" end PDA\Smartphone. This is strictly a Marketing move. They will launch the color later, in hopes of selling more units.

I feel this is a huge mistake! They are going to market themselves into bankruptcy. Some manufacturer is going to wake up and smell the opportunity! Handspring has already missed the boat, and is about to miss it again. The boats not coming back, and its gonna be sink or swim for them.

RE: here we go again
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:15:34 AM #
Sounds like what you want is the I300. The Treo will be for the more price conscious (i.e. cheap). I like it that I can get either a $500 color model or a $400 mono. Choice is good. There is no *best* answer that suits everyone.

RE: here we go again BW screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:58:46 AM #
It think HS are aiming more for users wanting to upgrade their mobiles, competing head to head with the new Nokia all in one phone, games, browser gadget announced just recently rather than us lot who are looking for a step up the PDA ladder. In that case the mono screen doesn't really hinder much as how many cell phones have colour screens at the mo? How many cell phones have expandable memory? How many phones let you (not wap) browse the web, play more than the installed games, sync your diary, contacts, install any application that is compatible.
If you've some across one, I'd love to know.

RE: here we go again
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 12:25:14 AM #
Anybody ever stop to think that posting such as this may be killing the market that it is centered on? If we keep announcing new handhelds before they are actually out, and then blame palm or handspring for slipping information and shooting themselves in the foot, its kind of ironic. Back in august there was news about this handheld, but guess what handspring had it removed from the FCC page so that people would not know about it. You can't say they aren't trying to keep themselves alive. Postings like this and spreading rumors is only hurting their sales. If we're all dreaming of a high-end high-resolution color device that's thin and wireless, we're never going to get it if nobody is buying what the company has to offer now.

RE: here we go again
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 7:40:00 PM #
my startac timeport puts off enough radiation... I wouldnt want to hold a color screen up to my head for long.. even if the screen went off after a few seconds...

RE: here we go again
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/15/2001 5:21:29 AM #
On the other hand, the Treo seems to be aimed squarely at the business user. There are not that many apps for commercial use which need (or run better with) a colour screen - none that I can thing of anyway. So why pay for something you don't need?

CLIE users may now fire when ready ...

Integrated phone/PDA???

ganoe @ 10/12/2001 9:58:26 AM #
Could someone explain the desire to have a phone integrated with a PDA? Personally I'd rather have them separate, assuming Bluetooth or something like that to have them wirelessly connected. As someone who does user interface design, I'd just like to understand the needs and reasoning of someone who likes this approach. Just please don't turn this request into an argument about it.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:07:15 AM #
Why would you want a phone on your PDA? The single piece of hardware is the only attractive feature of it. I certainly don't want MY face print on my Palm screen.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:09:43 AM #
Take a look at the picture. The Treo has a clear window in it's cover and can be used as a phone with the cover closed. Your face doesn't ever have to touch the screen.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:20:13 AM #
I can understand this question from someone in the U.S.. However, here in Europe wireless coverage is much, much better than in the U.S. Almost everyone and their grandmother has a handy, and these are rapidly moving to some minimum data manipulation / transmission. Heck, you can use your handy at many snack machines. Conversely, very few people seem to use handheld computers. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if in this market phones and handhelds converged because simple PIM functions dovetail quite nicely with "telephone" functions.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:26:52 AM #
I have both a phone and a PDA and a pager and hate it. Since I can't sync my phone with the PDA, I have some numbers and info on my phone and some on my PDA. Since I have two devices, rarely do I have both with me except when I am at work, so I am always lacking some information. The Samsumg I300 for example (I am not sure if the Treo will do paging)will allow me to combine 3 seperate pieces of vital equipment (for me anyway) into a single unit - cellphone, PDA, pager. Now instead of having to have a "Bat Belt" on to carry my devices, I can reduce down to a single device.

In addition if I need connectivity to the internet, or want/need to download email, check flight times, check for flight delays, make a car rental, hotel rental, etc, I have to carry yet ANOTHER piece of equipment with me - the cable to connect the cell phone with the PDA.

Therefore convergence allows me to combine 3 seperate devices and a cable into a single integrated unit that provides more functionailty and convienience than 4 seperate pieces of hardware, considering it is very rare that I will have all 4 items with me when I need them most.

These types of units will be very useful for some folks and of no value to others - it is nice that we will actually have a choice to choose a product that is most suitable for our individual needs.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:34:24 AM #
If we started using snack machines like that in the US, we'd get it for free for a few years and then both the vendor and the credit company would smack a $1 or more service charge on both sides of the transaction.

Anyhow, yes, if you just wanted simple PIM functionality, you could do it all in a phone. You don't need a device like the Treo for that kind of functionality though.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:34:39 AM #
I think the winning phone/pda combo will involve bluetooth and a independent headset or a plug in headset. (I have seen mockups of this that I would use.)

Holding a PDA to my head is not going to work. For a PDA to work well it has to be wide, but for a phone to work well it has to be narrow. Obviously mutualy exlusive needs so someone needs to do something different like the PDA phone you can't hold to your head to use, but have to use a bluetooth headset or a hands free earbud and mic.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
Moosecat @ 10/12/2001 10:39:23 AM #
I, for one, am really looking forward to the day when I can free up one pocket by combining my PDA and phone. When I'm fully loaded up (PDA, phone, and (for me) cigs), my pockets bulge in an unflattering way. And there's no way I'm buying those weird Dockers.

I don't think this device is on my upgrade path -- no color, maybe too big. But give it a year...

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:39:29 AM #
> The Treo has a clear window in it's cover and can be used as a phone with the cover closed.

How do you use the phone (or the PDA) with the cover closed? Do you open it to dial it and then close it to talk on it? That would be kind of odd. Are some of the buttons exposed even with the cover closed?

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:41:04 AM #
Don't know about the Treo, but the I300 has a built-in speaker phone so you can use the device while talking on the phone, and it also allows the use of a headset so you can use the phone while using the device.

The only thing that Blootooth would allow is the removeal of the little wire from the headset to the unit. For me, I can deal with a wire if the unit will be $100 or so cheaper.

Plus I don't use my phone enough to even bother carrying around the headset.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
Ed @ 10/12/2001 10:45:16 AM #
Based on the FCC info, you can use the jog wheel to pick a number from your speed dial list with the cover closed. To manually dial a number, you'll have to open the cover.

---
News Editor
RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
marig @ 10/12/2001 11:09:02 AM #
For me, there seems to be some basic usability issues with combining a phone and PDA in a single package. However, I have to admit there are some problems with keeping them separate as well, mentioned in this thread and others like this one in the past.

While a combined unit allows me to carry fewer devices, and do away with address book synchronization / duplication issues, which are both good things, think about the following situation:

You receive a call from your office on your combined phone/PDA. Tomorrow's meeting has been moved to a different day and different time. In order to note this on your PDA calendar, you need to take away the phone/PDA away from your ear, and access your datebook. Your choices to do this are to ask the other person to "hang on" while you do this, because you can't continue the conversation without the phone to your ear, and then continue the conversation, or try to remember the changes in your head, and make them after your phone call is complete. Either choice is not optimal. The same scenario is true if someone calls you to get an address or phone number from you, or you need to refer to any information on your PDA. Using the PDA part of your phone while you are using the phone just seems awkward. Maybe this doesn't happen alot to most people, but it seems like it would be a pain when it did.

I know that you can avoid this problem with a hands-free headset for your mobile phone/PDA, but that has drawbacks, too. The act of holding a phone to your ear and speaking is a universally recognized signal to others around you that you are having a conversation with someone and that you cannot pay attention to them right now. Using a hands-free headset removes this signal, and makes people around you wonder

a) Are you talking to yourself?
b) Are you talking to me?

I saw a first hand example of this in a checkout line at a store. The person in front of me made some remark about something, to which the cashier replied, in a somewhat confused tone of voice. The person then explained that they weren't talking to the cashier, they were just talking on the phone. The cashier didn't see the earbud, wire or phone tucked underneath the person's jacket. This is the kind of thing that I think makes people not want to use headsets with their phones. It also seems like the headsets haven't reached a certain "critical mass" of social acceptance. I think a lot of people consider it to be "weird" to go out in public with a headset on.

A speakerphone in the handset like the Samsung device is a little better, but then your conversation becomes public to those around you. Besides, most speakerphones never seem to give very good sound quality.

Having the devices separate removes these problems, but introduces others: two address books that have to be synchronized, difficulty in holding and using two devices simultaneously, having two devices to carry around instead of one.

What's the perfect solution to all this? I don't think there is one yet. I think people should just be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of each approach, and pick the solution that works best for the situations they find themselves in most of the time.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
james_sorenson @ 10/12/2001 11:20:29 AM #
Allow me, a current VisorPhone user, to answer this question. Mainly, it's portability and convenience. I like to be able to clip my Visor to my belt. Having both a Visor and a cell-phone on my belt makes me look like Batman. Having the address book work directly with the cellphone is a MAJOR plus. Wireless email on a cell-phone is pretty rough to read on that tiny screen. The Visorphone (and Treo) gives you a big, readable screen and easier text entry for email, SMS and web-browsing. But, how easy is it to hold your cell-phone and PDA IR ports together while on the move? It's just really nice to "have it all" in one package. Blue-tooth technology will at least make it a bit easier to connect a PDA and cell-phone on the move (Palm in hand, cell-phone on belt...yet connected), but it's not here yet.

If you want to browse the web, check email, and write SMS messages, it's just a lot easier to have it in one package. If you never have the need to check email or news-sites while away from the desk, and you only call a few people on your cell-phone, then you may not have a great need for it. But, believe me, I have discovered all kinds of situations where the Visorphone has mad my day (Mapquest directions, quick emails, read the news while sitting in the train, etc).


-------
James Sorenson

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:12:48 PM #
Hmmm. Integrated, yes. Holding the PDA to your head, no. Here's what I would design:

1) PDA/Phone device much like the Treo--a great idea. Slimmer, still.

2) Take it one step further; a la Ericsson's (not a fan--Nokia!) Bluetooth wireless headset (but slimmer, and more invisible), with voice-activation and speech recognition for phone lookups (a la Nokia digital). Slim, foldable, clips into stylus slot (?). As a backup, you can still talk into your PDA.

3) Take it another step, cradle or PDA can charge headset (tricky, smart industrial design required here.)

There you go. Still, two devices, but better designed, IMHO. Just ideas.

Sidebar: I would get rid of those damn flaps/cases, and integrate some kind of roll-top door for the screen or totally scratch resistant screen--that's just me.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 3:05:38 PM #
This seems rather uncompelling to me. For someone outside of the US or who loves the idea of the QWERTY keypad, this could be a bit more intriguing. But, for me, for the same (or less) money, I'd prefer the Kyocera 6035 thanks to its hard keypad and the choice between Sprint and Verizon coverage, which is much better than GSM coverage in the US.

Converging a PDA and a phone offers lots of benefits which have already been mentioned, which is why I want one. I just think that this offering is too little, too late as it compares unfavorably (at this price) to the Kyocera/Samsung offerings and even compares unfavorably to Handspring's own VisorPhone option. If it was $400 and color, then maybe. But, even then, except for the jog wheel (which they really should implement in all their handhelds), why not just get a Prism at $300 with the free VisorPhone?

Maybe I'm missing something. Is this signifantly smaller/lighter than a mono Visor with VisorPhone?

Scott

-Sounds like you don't travel much.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 6:24:54 PM #
I can't wait to get my hands on a cell/pda hybrid. I am so sick of having to carry them both around.
Neil


RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 11:58:50 PM #
"The act of holding a phone to your ear and speaking is a universally recognized signal to others around you that you are having a conversation with someone and that you cannot pay attention to them right now. Using a hands-free headset removes this signal"

Not that this has much to do with anything, but I work in a retail store at a mall, and even THAT signal isn't even recognized by many nowadays. I'll be on the phone (very obvious about it), and I'll have customers come right up to me and ask a question to my face, with no concern over the fact that I'm speaking with ANOTHER customer over the phone. Then, when I don't reply to the first customer, that person gets irritated with me an starts up an attitude. People suck sometimes.

Anyway, I actually just ordered a VisorPhone. You see, I was paying for my cell bill AND a wireless access bill (Minstrel S with YadaYada service). I kept my modem with me most all the time, but hardly used my cell phone, which lead me to leave it at home or elsewhere too many times. The VP lets me have both my modem AND my cell together, and I can also keep them on one (much cheaper) contract. So, quite simply, I prefer the convenience.

RE: Integrated phone/PDA???
ganoe @ 10/13/2001 9:42:52 AM #
Thanks for all the responses. As I expected, there were quite a few perspectives on this. Some people had some neat ideas too. Seems to me what I would want (after listening to the other posts) is something like this Treo, but with built-in Bluetooth and a Bluetooth headset to go with it. Still, it looks like lots of demand for other solutions as well, so quite possibly no particular one will win out.

no go without graffiti/springboard

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 11:33:23 AM #
I don't see how Handspring plans to stay competitive, without a springboard they're loosing thier "originality". And without graffiti, much of the 3rd party software out there will be incompatable (more than any other palm release). BTW, don't tell me, the treo's are going to have the same OS since Handsprings inception. My opinion, palm/sony'll squash them...

RE: no go without graffiti/springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 12:15:41 PM #
Why would someone need a Springboard slot on a cell phone??? With 16 MB onboard memory who needs a springboard slot? I couldn't imagine what the damn thing would look like with a springboard slot.

Sony is Handspring's biggest competitor IMO..Palm is behind the curve. The only thing holding them up is brand recognition.

RE: no go without graffiti/springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:04:14 PM #
Why do people assume that Springboard = Memory only? It cracks me up that people think that the only thing anyone would want out of an expansion board is memory. Memory is the least of many of our worries.

There's a reason why Springboard is more valuable than the SD on Palms and the MemoryStick on Sonys. You can do more than expand your memory. And you can expand your memory in any way you see fit.

Already have CF cards? Get a CF springboard. Have Smart Media cards? Get a Smart Media Springboard. With Palm, you can only use MMC or SD. With Sony, you're stuck with the MemoryStick.

Eyemodule, Minijam, Vox recorder, GPS, Universal Remote are all expansion options that are only available on the Visor. And many Visor users have already invested a lot of money in them. Take the springboard away from Handspring, and they're not differentiated from Palm or Sony. And current Handspring users will have no reason to stay loyal to the company.

It's okay if Handspring wants to go after a new market with this Treo. But they had better not dump the Springboard altogether, because then a whole lot more people are going to jump ship.

RE: no go without graffiti/springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 4:10:16 PM #
My visorphone stays in the springboard all the time anyway and with the Treo 16 meg, I won't need more memory Plus the ability to access lots of information over the wireless web. I've been waiting for a device like this one. As far as graffiti, I think I will try the thumboard model, those that use them claim faster input. Nice Product Handspring !!!!!

RE: no go without graffiti/springboard
TDS @ 10/12/2001 9:16:12 PM #
I suspect that Handspring is going to try to market this in the "Cell Phone" world as opposed to the "PDA" world. Maybe they are trying to grab on to a completly different market...

I myself would have no use for a visor without a Springboard slot, but some guy walking into "Radio Shack" looking for a Cell Phone may well fall in love with this. Does anyone else suspect that this may be Handsprings way of breaking into a different market?

(Actually, I would like a Visor with two Springboard slots!)
Doug

RE: no go without graffiti/springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 7:54:30 PM #
I would prefer the virtual graffiti pad, and a beefed up cpu.. for music and powerpoint and games and stuff... but I would need a microdrive though.. at least a gig... cuz I need my beats all the time... and a fold up bluetooth keyboard for writing down my thoughts when I am stuck somewhere.. would be cool if the phone had a little integrated stand for use on a table... I could probably quit lugging around a notebook then.... I will probably have to wait for a pocket pc to catch up... but I want it all now!

RE: no go without graffiti/springboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/14/2001 10:24:27 PM #
Yeah... That would be great. Then all they need to do is have it cook dinner, do the laundry and clean the toilet once or twice a week!

It fits a market, but not mine.

james_sorenson @ 10/12/2001 11:38:14 AM #
Well, I could see where a business would eat this up. Small, connected, capable, cross-platform, and easy for the beginner user.

A business does not NEED the color. The additional battery-power required to give a color-screen model some endurance would add to the bulk. Notice that all color-screen models need a lithiium-ion battery? That is not a coincidence. This one already needs the lithium-ion battery for the cell-phone, so two battery-killer technologies would be a bit heavy.

Now, here's the kicker, though. Let's say I WANT a color-screen. Let's say I WANT to be able to plug in a memory module to transfer large documents or make a quick backup. Let's say I WANT the ability to plug in a wireless network module when I arrive at work (building is too insulated for a cellular signal). Well, just hop over to the Handspring store and grab a Visor Prism with free Visor-phone module for $300!

Uh oh...did I say $300 for an expandable color VisorPhone? For about $40 to $60 I can add a "thumb-pad" of some sort for quick text entry. How much does the Treo cost? 400 dollars? That better be a rumor, because the price of technology is supposed to go DOWN, not UP! People will not pay more money for less features (well, some do, but they are all in the PocketPC market).

Anyhow, I think the Treo could be really big for the "average" user (not us pro users), but they need to knock the price down a little to be viable. The average user will see this more as a high-end cell-phone and will price it accordingly. The pro-users will probably prefer the Visorphone for the screen and expandability.

-------
James Sorenson

RE: It fits a market, but not mine.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 12:19:48 PM #
Well I see where you are coming from. I plan to get the Treo. BUT I will still be keeping my regular PDA (PRISM).

RE: It fits a market, but not mine.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 3:58:48 PM #
I don't think the form factor of the prism with visorphone (sticking out the back) and thumbpad (if one is even available for the Prism) would be a nice form factor compared to the Treo, plus the Treo has the thumbwheel and "perhaps" GPRS, support. I have the visorprism and visorphone and love it, but I will jump for the 16 meg SMS smashing machine. Mono will be ok, better power management and better outside support. For me, this is the most exciting product I have seen and not such a brick.

RE: It fits a market, but not mine.
TDS @ 10/12/2001 9:20:26 PM #
I bet we will see some really great Treo prices when bundled with Cellular service. Kind of like the Visorphone now. Don't be fooled into thinking that handspring does'nt make money off of the "Free" visorphone. Voicestream and Cingular are providing a nice little kickback, I am sure.

"Make money of the blades, not the Shaver" is the old gillette philosophy.

Ya... Come to think of it an "Electric Shaver Springboard Module" is what we need! It would go right along with my new "Massager Module"!! :)

GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.

robrecht @ 10/12/2001 12:37:58 PM #
Just how poor is GSM coverage in the US?

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
druce @ 10/12/2001 1:11:26 PM #
It depends. GSM is now, at least in most major metropolitan areas, so as long as you don't venture out into the suburbs too far, you will be alright.

The problem is that, what little GSM is actually in these areas, has been oversold. The companies that rolled these networks out have tried to recoop some of their expenses by aggresively attracting subscribers. I don't know a lot of happy GSM customers in the US.


RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:19:19 PM #
Very poor.

RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:41:01 PM #
I use Cingular in San Francisco.
If you can't afford to miss incoming calls, don't use Cingular. Calling parties will only hear your mailbox.
If you want to be able to make calls during busy hours, don't use Cingular. You will only hear "All circuits are busy, please try again. Oakland 1." It happens so often that I remember the message :)
I occassionally roam to LA. I'd tell you that it's even worst in LA area.
Personally I'm really disappointed with cingular service quality. If I could get away from $150 early termination fee, I would discontinue service this very minute.

RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:15:25 PM #
I use VoiceStream, and I'm based in Denver. I've been using them for the past two years, and I have nothing but good things to say about coverage. I travel a GREAT deal throughout Western US, and I've never, and I mean never, had a big problem with coverage.

GSM coverage is not limited to merely large metropolitan areas anymore...you'd be surprised.

Oh yea, I've tried Sprint for awhile earlier this year; and I can safely say that my calls come in much clearer from my end and my callers end when I use VoiceStream's service.

I really can't understand people who say GSM in the US sucks...I'm a common user, and it's been great for me.

If you are primarily in any city (or its suburbs), you'll like GSM in the US. Rural areas are another thing.

RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:17:17 PM #
I have Voicestream in Washington, DC and the coverage is really good. I hardly get a system busy. I get all my calls. On trips up the East Coast, I get constant coverage through Philly, New York, and Boston. The voice quality is also outstanding.

Voicestream, on the other hand, sucks. They have terrible customer service. They are slow to bring their products to the market. They are the leaders of billing fiascos.

I love GSM. I hate Voicestream.

RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 4:07:09 PM #
GSM technology has EXCELLENT bullet proof, SMS short message delivery technology. With the thumb pad this will be great. Short e-mails that are "pushed to you also, so you don't have to go "check" your e-mail. GSM is also a standard in many many countries, you can take your GSM to Europe and it still works, Encryption is solid for security. This is an excellent product on the right architecture.

RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:25:59 PM #
GSM in Houston (Voicestream) ain't so hot. I moved my wifes phone over to them after she kept racking up the minutes every month. They have the cheapest rates. Even with their top of the line Nokia, the sound quality is nowhere as good as her old Verizon Motorola Startac ST7878W. Plus, a lot more dropped calls and poor connections. Today I had to call her back three times before I got a connection we could both hear each other on. And theres that one-year contract.

Still, at least she's not bankrupting us now by going over her plan's minutes each month....

RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 10:04:55 AM #
I've been using GSM/Voicestream in the NYC area for 6 months. Coverage seems great every (4 bars). Went to Pennsylvania for a few days, almost everywhere 3-4 bars even in the middle of nowhere. In Connecticut there seems to be big holes in coverage though. I think in Stamford I had absolutely no coverage for miles. Overall I'm pretty satisfied with GSM coverage. Definitely doesn't suck.

RE: GSM users in US, please comment on coverage.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 8:11:44 PM #
sprint PCS sucks in the bay area.. especially when stuck in traffic though its not so bad elswhere.. I have been stuck for hours without being able to place a call... but the concept of keeping this technology tied to the carriers concerns me... voice over ip is what this is all about and an encrypted broadband connection to the pda is all we really need.. internet telephony is for real.. the carriers could just offer branching services to access people on the pots. this would be revolutionary.. I am totally bumbed that handspring is in bed with the carriers.. and that ricochet is dead...

these guys are &$·%&!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:11:20 PM #
I will never buy handspring again. So far, I've had a DeLuxe, a platinum and a prism. Great machines, yes. But I paid about $450 for the prism (europe). I wanted a visorphone... quess what: visorphone, when at last became available in europe, was about $400. And STILL is!. No promotions, so far, until last week: "get visor prism and visorphone together for about $500"
And now I found out thet this promotion is being made 2 weeks before the release of the treo series?!
I've had enough. I have to say the visors, and particulary the deluxe and the prism, are worth every cent I've spent. But I'm tired of being played on by handspring. That's all. Thanks for the memories, but I'll switch brand now.

That's for your poor treatment of your customers, specially european customers. Bye handspring!

BTW... anyone wants a prism? I'll sell it and go for the clié :-D At least it's equally priced in europe!

RE: these guys are &$·%&!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:19:11 PM #
forgot to mention springboard modules prices and avaliability in europe. The soundgood mp3 player, and the minijam, cost about two times their price in the US! It's outrageous!!!

RE: these guys are &$·%&!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 3:33:38 PM #
boo hoo...why don't you make up your mind...it looks like you just go for the latest technological advance with each purchase. If you can afford it, why bitch?

Frickin' whiner!

RE: these guys are &$·%&!!!!
jeremyf @ 10/12/2001 8:16:06 PM #
Buy them on ebay, pay $15 in shipping to Latvia or wherever... you'll still get your modules cheaper than US retail...

RE: these guys are &$·%&!!!!
TDS @ 10/12/2001 9:25:38 PM #
Good idea... Go for the Clie! You should be able to pick up the Clie "Cell Phone" memory stick in about 2007 or so...
Even though the modules are expensive across the pond, nobody else can do what Handspring has done. I applaud them for their progress.

I am sure that it is the Cellular service providors in Europe that are the cause of the high price on the Visorphone. The ones in the states are surely giving Handspring a Kickback for every new customer brought on board. This is why they can give away the Visorphone cheap or free. Maybe they are not doing that in Europe.

The Visorphone in the States, if purchased without service, is $299.00

Doug

RE: these guys are &$·%&!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 8:23:01 PM #
mail order your stuff from canada

RE: these guys are &$·%&!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/14/2001 5:41:20 AM #
u should b thankful they'r avaliable, I haven't seen a thinmodem in asia yet. c'mon, i don't wanna pay for shipping.

soon, they'll fold between the keyboard and the screen

mj6798 @ 10/12/2001 10:47:03 PM #
... and then we will have returned to the original Sharp-like organizers.

Seriously, I think in an odd way, Graffiti was important for the adoption of a Palm (it made it look more like a notepad), but I don't see it surviving in the mass market in the long term: it takes a while to learn and it is pretty slow.

Calling on Europeans

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 4:28:44 AM #
I am curious how this device is received (perceived at this point) in Europe ? I know you are accustomed to using a rich set of GSM technologies and hardware for some time and is available all over. Is this a device you see as a good one for your environment. Please give your perspective. - Thanks

RE: Calling on Europeans
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 12:36:36 PM #
Actually I would not buy a GSM phone when GPRS is the technology I've been waiting for for ages! I'd rather get and Ericsson T39 or Nokia 6310 (GPRS, integrated bluetooth) and a bluetooth springboard module, and use my visor as an "always on" pda... of course that's my opinion. On the other hand, $400 is quite an acceptable price for a high-end mobile phone, and people who does actually carry a phone and does not have a pda will certainly like this treo series.

RE: Calling on Europeans
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/14/2001 8:11:43 AM #
I would buy this device if it was GPRS....

Right now Im thinking of buying the Treo or get the visor phone for my Prism...

Im also currently using a non-GPRS GSM phone (Siemens SL45).

I wish the treo would be color, GPRS, and tri-band :)

RE: Calling on Europeans
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/14/2001 12:44:39 PM #
Only my 2 cents,

Cnet has a video interview with handspring:

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006.html?tag=tab

in this video is said that the Treo is GPRS capable but not when it will be launched. A future software upgrade will enable the GPRS.

And it is said that a color treo will be in the market only in mid 2002

Always on???

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 9:57:06 AM #
If the handhelds have "always on" features(at least the m700 will have, won't it?), what happens if I travel by plane? can I turn them off?
Would be pretty bad if I would have to take out the batteries, wouldn't it??

RE: Always on???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 10:36:16 AM #
Don't be so literal. "Always on" doesn't mean "Can't be turned off". Read about the i705 (www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2288) and see how it works.

RE: Always on???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/14/2001 8:12:47 PM #
Are you an idiot? Pagers and cell phones are "always on", but both can be turned off. Come out from under your rock.

treo video!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/14/2001 2:47:58 PM #
There is a video of the treo and Handspring Rep on c/net...

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006.html?tag=tab#

Looks like it's going to be released in January at the earlist... color coming around July...

GSM... then GPRS in July (Mid-year)...

:-)


Looks like...

MacPrince @ 10/14/2001 11:11:42 PM #
...the webmaster at www.handspring.com updated the page tonight and left early. It's up there on the front page, enjoy!

IT'S OFFICIAL!!!
ahecht @ 10/14/2001 11:33:32 PM #
Check out http://handspring.com/products/communicators/ for the official page.

According to the page, the Treo 180 with phone, organizer, messaging & web functions, built-in keyboard OR Graffiti®, a rechargeable battery and 16 MB memory will be available early next year and cost $399 (w/ service activation). The Treo 270, which is identical except for a "high-visibility color screen" is due out mid 2002 at $599 (w/ service activation).


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