Comments on: Sony Announces Superslim T415 with Hi-Res Mono Screen (Updated)

I think somebody finally "met my needs." Unless Palm comes out with something amazing before November, I'm sure this will be my next PDA.

Just wondering what color is it's backlight. Hope it's blue like Sony's Universal remote commander:
http://www.sonystyle.com/images/250x250/shots/rmav2100.jpg

Joking aside, this looks like a great machine. Well priced, well spec'ed.

However, I think they should have considered including 16 megs onboard instead of just 8.

On another note, when are the higher speed Dragonballs due out? The 45 Mhz and 66 Mhz?

Wasn't there a rumour that Handspring was about to launch one some months ago?

But I'd also agree that these devices need 16M minimum, not the 8M they ship with currently.

EB

I could be asking a bit much, but they could have had at least one of the following to make the package more attractive:
* 16MB RAM
* Faster processor - 45 or 66MHz
* Free memorystick

Otherwise, it's just an M500 with a hi-res screen. And IMHO, the hi-res screen is no real add-value because it's greyscale.

Yeah, right.

That's funny, M500 is a loser compared to T415. Yes, no
hi-res, no jog-dial, no enhanced Ir, "bricky", plastic
back... Wake up, man...

Next time, don't reach so far--it weakens your argument.

If Sony can release a palm OS based unit this thin, I'm excited to see what they would come up next!

Personally, I like their 9000 series phones. It was a breakout product technology wise, and IF it had been fully released in the USA (under CDMA - or with widespread release under GSM), I am convinced it would have gone a long way to solidfy Symbian/EPOC in the US market.

My $0.02 worth - YVMV.

Token.

Edge : Needs the huge add-on for expansion storage
T415: Built-in MS slot + 320x320 + Jog dial

By volume:
T415 - 5.6088 cubic inches
m500 - 5.58 cubic inches

Density (which is very relevant to how heavy it feels):
T415 - 0.767 oz/in3
m500 - 0.717 oz/in3

But, of course, the Palm lacks the Hi-Res screen and the jog dial.

Tom

Seriously though... When is Sony going to just buy Palm. They obviously have the vision that Palm lacks, they just don't have the brand. Go for it, Sony!

.4 can mean .40, .41, .42, .43, .44, or anything less than .45

Since Palm didn't list their Palm 500 as .40, it shouldn't be assumed it's less than .41.

.4 IS Equal TO

.40, .400, .400, .4000, .40000, .400000, etc.

an unlimited amount of zero's is assumed to the right of the last significant digit. No other number can be implied. Use your calculator.

I hope you don't have a job in engineering or any of the sciences.

Do you think the Palm is exactly .40 or .400 or .40000? By your explanation it is!

As if those devices are designed to have such rounded measurements. Think about it. Of course rounding occurs for the sake of not confusing customers with unnecessary preciseness.

Makes the choice easy though.
Color? Sound? Get an iPaq.

Moreover, Clie's install CDs do not work on Asian language version of Windows. Programs seem to be expecting English names for particular folders, such as "Desktop" or "Start Menu". Not cool.

I'm in Australia... BTW, we don't get Japanese cars with the same specs - the ones we get are often lowered in power output due to (a) our lower grade fuel (b) Australian law. Doesn't really bother me 'cos I only have a Toyota Corolla anyway. :)

Sony does a LOT of stuff like this. Their target market is apparently stupid enough to keep falling for it. Note also, their bringing out MP3 Players for the older CLIE only AFTER sales of the new MP3-capable CLIE tapered off? And the whole Memory Stick thing, as well. But hey, it's your money to waste.

See: Connector Conspiracy - http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/c/connector_conspiracy.html

(I'm kidding - it really looks very good.)

Beauty is skin deep. A beautiful appearance can just wipe out any complians.

see, people still like mono. It is still very nice (until a color Palm can be priced below 200).

They are actually jokes now... Losers !

NYC people are, on the other hand, known for their ego-centric attitude and think that everything nice looking is in it for the style and fashion, not functionality.

NYC is not known for Hi-tech anyway....

NYC people are, on the other hand, known for their ego-centric attitude and think that everything nice looking is in it for the style and fashion, not functionality.

------------------------------------------------------
Have you ever set foot in NYC I dont think so. Why dont you go back to the playground, and talk about how cool it is to live in a state where the moto should be "how do I look"

YOU ASS

Wow, what a stereotyper. I bet you believe every muslim wears a turban and that catholic priests are pedophiles.

Boy, you are an example of too much edu-ma-cation and that it's harmful to society to have people like you running around.

Plus, he's also right about technology...Couldn't find a Caltech, a silicon Valley in NY, could you? If you disagree, explain the original comment (how could a PDA user group in NYC be so dumb in degrading Sony in such a big way?)

-- so I can be NUMBER FOUR to yell at you and push you around. As for looking down at you, I can do that from here.

Oh and NYC now thanks to 9-11 everyone acts as if they are in the Midwest. A friend almost got run over by a messager and he stopped to pick him off the ground and to see if he was ok. One you see it for what it is (a no bs town you will never want to go back)

I agreed with the previous comment that NYC has a lot of nice thing, but unfortunately people's attitude is definitely not one of them (at least pre-9-11) I heard that has changed somewhat though....

Personally experience, and why people hate NY

'We're expanding on our strategy of focusing on entertainment." Said Sony product manager Ty Takayanagi.'

Could one of you staunch SONY Tro...Fans explain this to me in a way that dosen't equate to 'We're building Hi-tech toys'?

Face it - Palm (http://www.palm.com/products/palmm500/software.html) and Handera (http://www.cesinc.com/quickoffice/handera330/) are bundling office software with their machines, and SONY wants to SELL you a new machine whose major selling point is that it's a remote control? I think they're making their market pretty clear.

And 15 feet is nothing to brag about - The Visor OmniRemote Module does 25ft, and the Springboard does 16. Heck, I used to do 20' to a Panasonic VCR, no sweat, with an III-Upgraded Personal and OmniRemote.

Oh, and it's not Railroad Time for Color yet. Even Sony admits it now, kids. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe next month. Maybe three years from now. But not today.

-- you effing weasel. How dare you say something like that! Email me at mikecane@wildmail.com so we can meet personally and I will straighten out your misconceptions. But then, how will I know it's even you when any moron can post anonymously?

sheesh........

To think the PIC boards would become a NY bashing spot is just dumb.

But so is the above comment. Generalities get you nowhere.

One thing i will say though, when you walk on a sidewalk in NY, you have to realize that sidewalk traffic is NO different than street traffic. If you decide to stop in the middle of the sidewalk and stare up at the buildings, or talk to your friend, you are going to get plowed over. It's a highway. If you need to stop, pull over.

Simple.

Learn that other people around you most likely have a job to get to, or are just getting from point A to B and you are in the way. If i stopped in the middle of a highway in a car, i'd hear some choice words too (regardless of state).

Learn the environment before you judge.

Worst part is, they feel that the fact that someone is in their way is that someone's fault, not them....

-- now this is an observant person! You don't know how many times my friends and I have said there should be lanes painted on the sidewalks! Yes, please, pull over if you're stopping! (Dammit, people even stop short on subway stairs!)

I am enjoying where I am now, so thanks for your invitation to explain mikecane, but I honestly don't feel like I need another "New York City hospitality" The only things I find hospitable in New York are two things: The Cornell Hotel School and a Big Tip for anything done. So forget the email, I won't be sending in anything. If someone send you anything rest assure it' not me.

The message I guess is that they would want to have a handheld that caters to more functions. As an example, the fact that Japanese put Karaoke stereos in the car doesn't mean that the car manufacturers are trying to turn automobiles into a mobile music hall...

Well you get the idea.

OK by me. But next time in NYC, check out the huge main public library. It's a great place, too.

But then I hope if we did bump into each other mikecane, I honestly hope that you would be the one that shows me NYC was really a changed place....

Believe it or not, even the reception counter New York New York hotel in Vegas has that kind of New York attitude.

BTW, educate your PUG so that they know what Sony has done for the Palm OS, and thanks for the tip about the main library.....

See you around...

I respect Sony because they make something that does NOT feel like a plastic toy that has every Palm OS goodie needed for business, yet I can pop in a chip and listen to my favorite music or show someone a picture of someone that doesn't look like a lego sculpture. Yes, that's entertaining, and guess what that means, Sony is accessing a market base that no PDA manufacturer touches.

Also, as a comment about the irda capabilities of the Sony, they hold the prize for functionality as a remote. Tell me, seriously, that you LIKE programming your palm key by key, then snapping on a hunk of plastic that will drain you INFERRIOR batteries [sorry, had to get that out]. Btw, an ir enhancer exists for the N series that ranges 25 feet. But if you want to talk about range, play with an i705. My friend has one which ranges 40 feet natively and smoothly, no aiming. [yes, that is irda, not bluetooth]

Also, loosely on the topic of respect for Sony, accesories should be addressed. They are finally keeping the range of form factors down to 2 now, late but surely appreciated. Although decent Sony accessories are few and far between, they are stylish which, like it or not, matters in a business world. When Logitech released a cloth keyboard/case that was not available for my N body, I realized any business person "unrolling" his PDA during a conference would not have an... "attractive marketing appeal."

Feel free to counter my points.
-valek@tampabay.rr.com

LL&L

If SD/MMS/CF are fast, the models using them can't read and write using the max speed anyway. As for price, what's the difference you are too proud about? What's the price of the units that use those 'cheap' memory card you are talking about anyway? Can it beat the $300 hi-res, vibrating, and slim T415?

Samsung will be producing Memory Stick-capable devices; Acer has already announced a PalmOS device with Memory stick slot. San Disk will be selling Memory Sticks under San Disk name; HP announced a printer with memory-stick slot.

Give it up, man.

Memory Sticks *are* propriatory. Sony designed them for the SOLE PURPOSE of *being* propriatory. They are designed to allow them to control content distribution. That is why they include watermarking technology.

Smart Media was an adequate format, but Sony wished to introduce a new format (as they have a history of doing, ala Video 8, MiniDisc), with MS they have the added ability to control the data you store on them. This suits them because of the large number of recording labels they own, and movies they produce.

The technology in Memory Sticks is intended to control the distribution of material, and in practice, this means preventing you from copying and using material you may or may not own the rights two (even CD's you have purchased, or DVD's you own)

Content control is why why Sony PlayStation's had the in-built DVD region hack disabled before they sold in the US and Europe (and why the hackable systems in Japan were recalled), it's partly why the MiniDisc platform was created, it's also why Sony are pushing Memory Sticks.

Along with other content publishers, Sony have a very big vested interest in controlling distribution of content, and, most importantly, this doesn't just extent to wanting to prevent piracy, but it *is* for the same reason: they want to make more money.

I am quite happy to help them make more money buying their products, but I will not help them restrict my existing ability to copy, use and manipulate data I own. One very effective way to do that, is to not buy those products.

To further illustrate:
With the technology present in Memory Sticks they can (have have already) prevented people from copying an MP3s. Any MP3. Even an MP3 to an Album they own. Even an MP3 of their dog, or a video of there family.

At present, you can buy MS without content control, though they cost quite a bit more than the ones with content control. If Memory Sticks become ubiquitous enough, the ones without content control will be phased out, either through pressure on manufacturers, or very simply, through new legislation, passed on the basis that it will help prevent piracy, possibly through a combination of the two (This is why we have DVD region encoding. Again, it's something Sony strongly desired, which does *nothing at all* to prevent piracy, but DOES enable them to control content distribution, in order to maximize profits).

By doing this, when all of us have Memory Sticks, they will have 'closed the gate' and we will be stuck with though technically good, unnecessarily oppressive copying restrictions on media, forcing us to pay multiple times for the ability to use the same data on different platforms, or we will be moved to a subscription model where we don't actually own the bit's or the right to copy them or use them within reasonable bounds (as the subscription model is far preferable for most business, and one the music and movie industries would *love* to move to because it means an increased flow of revenue on a regular basis, and an installed customer base allows them to more easily push more of their own products at consumers).

The purple/blue memory sticks have absolutely no content controls in them. It's true that the MagicGate MS do have content controls, but it's this version WITH the content controls that are more expensive BY FAR.

And has been mentioned several times, Sony is licensing the production of MS to several different manufacturers, so the proprietary tag barely fits anymore, if at all.

Sony is doing a lot of things right--give them credit.

I'll be a believer if you could, since mini-disc is so popular virtually all manufacturers have a Mini-disc player.

And wait! they have DVD recorder now! But let's stick to the MD first...one step at a time.

As long as Sony can release all the detail about MS and make it an open standard, it is not pripietary any more (even though Sony still owns many patents I think).

But (and this is a big BUT!) consumers are still buying MG Memory Sticks over plains ones!

Why?

Because on the face of it, using MG sticks seems to offer better value for money - they can store more music tracks per MB because they support ATRAC3. Like Ogg Vorbis, ATRAC3 offer much better compression than MP3, that's the 'carrot'. When then did they not simply use Ogg Vorbis? Because ATRAC3 allows for copy protection, and therein lies the 'stick'.

ATRAC3 is format for high quality, highly compressed audio. Sony's ATRAC3 management software also has an annoying habit of preventing you from having access to your data if you try and upload it more than 3 times (you can 'move' songs around, but if you decided you simply want to delete them and upload new ones, your in for a bit let down with Sony's protected Memory Sticks.

If you ever move ATRAC3 song's between PC's, if you upgrade your PC or it's Hard Drive, or you like to move files between a Laptop and a Desktop, or between a home PC and a work PC then again, the technology will do it's best to thwart you.

If I encode a song using ATRAC3, I can't sent it to my friends, or upload it to my folk's iMac - even when I have downloaded legitimate copies from the internet. I can't even transfer it between my Rio, G4 PowerBook and and Windows 98 PC (let alone use them on my Linux file server, and only on my PowerBook by using Virtual PC).

With regard to one posters query about MiniDisc's: MiniDiscs use 'standard MD' format, and almost all currently for sale also support the ATRAC3 format too (this goes for all MiniDisc vendors). MiniDisc's were not a bad format and they delivered something that users wanted, but they have also proved to be a foot in the door through which Sony has managed to saturate the market with more controllable ATRAC3 players.

Oh and did I mention that many of the new Sony music sticks will _only_ play ATRAC3's (and not MP3's)?

Caveat Emptor indeed!

Sony MP3 players do seem really appealing, but in the long run Sony value content delivery and content control (including all media - music, movies and software) more than they value hardware sales and it's in consumers best interests to bear that in mind.

Just to settle the argument, memory sticks are absolutely proprietary, there can be no argument about that. Memory Stick licensees such as Acer, Compaq, Mitsubishi and Samsung have all had to pay hefty fee's to use MS technology, and (crucially) the format is anything but open (where as MMC and SD are both open, non proprietary formats). This is factual and not a matter of opinion.

The following well known sites contains articles which also discuss this:
PCWorld: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,15450,00.asp
ZDNet: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/reviews/rstories/0,3040,e7110591,00.html
CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/07/14/sony.pda.idg/
( Do searches for 'proprietary'. )

So what alternatives are there?
Well, the IMB Micro Drive still provides much better value for money at 300 UKP for 1 Gig, with no copy protection, and it has a much more open interface architecture (and the data transfer rate is quicker at 4MB/Sec). It's most commonly found in Flash/Compact Flash format, but the drive itself is tiny (much smaller than a Compact Flash housing) and has already been embedded in a number of devices.

So do I dislike Sony products?
No! I've got a very nice Sony Widescreen TV, a Sony Stereo, Sony Wireless head phones, even a Sony alarm clock! If it weren't for the even thinner and better equipped PowerBook G4, I'd probably have a Sony laptop too. I do try to keep a broader perspective on what companies like Sony are up to however.

Sony are not the only boogiemen in this arena: AOL Time Warner, AT&T, IBM, Lucent, Microsoft, Matsu****a, RealNetworks, Toshiba and Liquid Audio all have a steak in this, it's just that none have as much clout in the consumer electronics arena as Sony, and Sony are one of the big pushers of this movement (unlike say, IBM, Microsoft, Lucent, and to a lesser extent AT&T, who are more just along for the ride (or at least have just jumped on the bandwagon), it's AOL TW, BMG and Sony who actually have something to lose if they can't pull of content control).

Lastly, if consumers don't pay attention (which most have been, as evidence open formatted players are by far more popular as even novice users are somewhat aware of the dangers of proprietary formats) then through bad design of bad ideas, and a bit of corporate greed thrown in, then we'll end up with technology very much more restrictive than we have now. I don't think that will happen, there are too many well informed consumers, and we are getting better informed as time goes on, but I don't think playing into their hands helps the situation and it certainly doesn't help bury the specter of content control.

As previously state the difference between the MG stick and the standard stick is the MG stick allows ATRAC3 (SDMI compliance). ATRAC3 allows more minutes of quality music compaired to standard MP3s. That's the only reason why I use ATRAC3 and OpenMG

Sony changed their rollout plans mid-stream when slow sales and loud complaints revealed that not even THEIR target market was stupid enough to fall for this one.

What they WANTED was to force their users onto ATRAC. What they settled for was to get people to pay for an ATRAC-capable player, so that when Sony starts releasing it's artist's work on ATRAC, they can say 'Look! You've already got a player! Now pay us!'.

And if you want an example of how MiniDisk is copy protected, go out and buy a commercially cut MD (If they still sell them - They were really unpopular for this reason.), get a set of optical patch cables, and hook two decks together and try to copy the commercial disk onto a blank. The error messages are usually amusing, and almost always enlightening. Now unplug the optical cables and use the Audio in and outs. Wasen't that simple?

The thickness is 0.39 mm. Thus, thinner than any of the other models.

You mean .39 inches. If it were .39 mm then it would be about .015 inches thick! Now that would be sweet! :)

I seem to remember a Palm add that told me the m505 had "vibrant" colors.

BTW, it is 25.4 mm per inch, not 254 mm per inch. We know that it was a typo... right? :)

It means "Shut The F*ck Up." In my opinion, it is used way too much here.

If you want to know more about the acronyms used on the internet, check out www.netlingo.com

Ranking By Surface Area:
1. Sony T415 (13.68 sq. in.)
2. Palm m505, Palm m500, & Palm Vx (13.95 sq. in.)
3. Visor Edge (14.75 sq. in.)

Reagrds. :)

Also, on the Vx, the scroll button sticks up, which actually makes the max thickness 0.49".

So Sony is right by saying that the T415 is the world's thinnest PDA!!!

Congratulations Sony! Keep it up!

Sorry I had to be away from my computer all day so I couldn't make the change until now.

---
News Editor

Ranking By Thickness / Thinness
1. Sony T415 (0.39 in.)
2. Palm m500 & Palm Vx (0.4 in.)
3. Visor Edge (0.44 in.)
4. Palm m505 (0.5 in.)

Ranking by Weight
1. Palm m500 & Palm Vx (4.0 oz.)
2. Sony T415 (4.3 oz.)
3. Visor Edge (4.8 oz.)
4. Palm m505 (4.9 oz.)

Ranking By Surface Area:
1. Sony T415 (13.68 sq. in.)
2. Palm m505, Palm m500, & Palm Vx (13.95 sq. in.)
3. Visor Edge (14.75 sq. in.)

Ranking by Volume
1. Sony T415 (5.3352 cu. in.)
2. Palm m500 & Palm Vx (5.58 cu. in.)
3. Visor Edge (6.4108 cu. in.)
4. Palm m505 (6.975 cu. in.)

Details:

Palm m505
Source: http://www.palm.com/products/palmm505/details.html
Size/Weight: 4.5 x 3.1 x 0.5 in. / 4.9 oz.
Surface Area: 13.95 sq. in. (computed)
Volume: 6.975 cu. in (computed)

Palm m500
Source: http://www.palm.com/products/palmm500/details.html
Size/Weight: 4.5 x 3.1 x 0.4 in. / 4.0 oz.
Surface Area: 13.95 sq. in. (computed)
Volume: 5.58 cu. in. (computed)

Palm Vx
Source: http://www.palm.com/products/palmvx/details.html
Size/Weight: 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.4" / 4.0 oz.
Surface Area: 13.95 sq. in. (computed)
Volume: 5.58 cu. in. (computed)

Visor Edge
Source: http://makeashorterlink.com/?S1612291
Size/Weight: 4.7" x 3.1" x 0.44" / 4.8 oz.
Surface Area: 14.75 sq. in. (computed)
Volume: 6.4108 cu. in. (computed)

Sony T415
Source: http://www.sonystyle.com/micros/clie/415specifications/PEG-T415.html
Size/Weight: 4.65 x 2.83 x 0.39 in. / 4.30 oz.
Surface Area: 13.68 sq. in. (computed)
Volume: 5.3352 cu. in. (computed)

BTW, I will be curious to hear if the Remote Commander on the new Sony works on Panasonic devices, since I could never get Omniremote to do so.

...In accordance with the prophecy...

Quik_Fix
quikfix@hotmail.com

http://www.pacificneotek.com/devkit.htm

I would imagine that Sony has done something similar. The part that I didn't realize was the range that these devices are getting. Apparently the 15ft that the T415 is getting is actually sub-par when compared to other devices like the m50x and Handspring Visors.

That said, it's probably true that Sony is last on support. Trouble is, the only company that truly "stands out" on support is HandEra, and they're simply too small to compete on multiple levels with a giant like Sony.

Sony should give Palm an offer while Palm is thinking if it would sell its software side, hardware side, etc. Let Sony use Palm for support.

Too bad.

Dont look at an unfinished web page and start quoting it as fact.
I am sur ehte information in the news release is correct.
OS 4.1, .41" thin and a 320x320 resolution...