Comments on: Palm Bluetooth SD Card Delayed

For many months, developers of non-memory SD devices have been waiting on the SD Association to to finally approve the SD Input/Output (SDIO) standard needed to make sure all SD devices would work together smoothly. The good news is that the standard was finally approved last week. The bad news is that it comes too late for Toshiba to get the Bluetooth SD card out this year for Palm Inc., as it had been promising since June.
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SD bluetooth vs. MS bluetooth

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 9:52:39 AM #
Wanna bet which ones comes out first? (Side bet: which ones comes out without problem wins this bet)....

RE: SD bluetooth vs. MS bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 10:05:27 AM #
Sure. I bet there will be CF Bluetooth support on the HandEra 330 first.

RE: SD bluetooth vs. MS bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 10:08:53 AM #
Actually, isn't the MemoryStick Bluetooth card already out, just in Japan only though.

RE: SD bluetooth vs. MS bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 1:18:17 PM #
There is no bluetooth MS yet even in Japan. But Sony has released a clip on bluetooth adapter for Japanese clies users since Jun. I prefer this options since there is only 1 MS slot because I can use MS for memory at the same time. Of course if they include memory storage in the bluetooth adapter, that is even better.

There is also a CF type II adapter for Clie in Japan to be used for CF wireless services; it cannot be used for memory purpose and there is no 802.11b drivers for this yet. Now it is only used for wireless services provided by mobile operator DDI Pocket (max speed 64kbps).

RE: SD bluetooth vs. MS bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 2:14:45 PM #
Do you know if the adapter in japan will work on the us versions of the clie? Also, have you heard when it might make its way to the US? Thanks


RE: SD bluetooth vs. MS bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/14/2001 2:26:11 AM #
Yes, it works in both n760c and n750c. I have both of them. I use it with Ericsson t39 when outside of Japan and use a Sony phone in Japan. But the problem to use it on the English OS is that since the driver is only English, you would not not be able to read the preference/configuration screen as they are in Japanese. Since I have both, I have "remembered" the positions of the configuration screen.

No, I have not heard the release of this adapter in markets outside of japan. I guess, sony does not see a mass market yet because, in Japan the wireless is more advance in terms of speed. We can use at least 64kbps and highest is 384kbps. My Sony will go up to 128kbps in Japan.

Then I do not understand how difficult to write the drivers software in English. Well, do not know what's in Sony's mind.

A step in the right direction....

sub_tex @ 11/13/2001 9:54:53 AM #
I think the Bluetooth SD cards are going to be a very good thing, and very useful. However, I still think you lose out a lot since you can't have access to all of your files on SD card, and still have a Bluetooth connection since there's only one SD slot on the device.

This is where a device like the Handera will really push ahead in terms of functionality.

And if Palm has plans for built in Bluetooth for the new models, that's even better.

What Else Is New?

SuccessWizard @ 11/13/2001 10:26:16 AM #
Bluetooth seems to always have an excuse why it's not ready for__________ (fill in the blank.)

The comment about the Handera is valid -- I hadn't thought about the lack of access to SD card files while you're running the SD card bluetooth. I guess the same applies to all the one slot PDA's though. Compaq's multi slot and built-in bluetooth models will position that unit well for the handful that are willing to commit to bluetooth at this point.

I say this because bluetooth is the "boy who cried wolf" at this point. Too many false starts and too many delays for many to take it seriously.

Mike Lohsl
Palm & ACT! Advisor

RE: What Else Is New?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 10:55:19 AM #
I's also valid because of Handera's track record in being first-to-market with these types of advances.

Mind you, they do have their failings...

RE: What Else Is New?
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 6:26:25 PM #
Yes but keep in mind that Palm could do little about this delay. The SDIO standard was supposed to be approved a few months ago.

The standard got delayed and so was the Bluetooth card. They couldn'y manufacture it cause they coulsn't know what the final SDIO standard was going to look like.

802.11 needed much more time then Bluetooth.
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/14/2001 4:33:53 AM #
People still talk about that Bluetooth is late (? the overhype-factor is the main reason here, sad enough).....but people are forgetting fast.

.....The 802.11b standard was finalised in 1991, yet only over last few years have wireless LANs become a serious market.,,s2096839,00.html

They starded with Bluetooth developing in the mid 90's and the Bluetooth spec 1.1 was ready in March 2001.

I never hear(d) people nagging about 802.11? How's that?

$150 !!!???

skoty @ 11/13/2001 11:37:05 AM #
I can't believe how expensive this is. Bluetooth is supposed to be an INEXPENSIVE, wireless way to replace cables. It'll never, ever be accepted at these prices.

RE: $150 !!!???
geekd @ 11/13/2001 2:09:23 PM #
Preach on, brother!

I'd pay $50 at the most for this. Not like my phone supports it anyway.

RE: $150 !!!???
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 3:03:17 PM #
150 at first for the early adopters who need it.
50 bucks for you later on.
And, your US phone will support it someday soon. Phones in Europe already do.

RE: $150 !!!???
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 3:56:24 PM #
My previous phone already had bluetooth, as does my current one. Just because the us is behind when it comes to phones with bluetooth, doesn't mean that the phone market is behind when it comes to phones with bluetooth. Besides, the Ericsson T39 (my previous phone) and Ericsson T68 (my current phone) are triband, which means you can also use them in parts of the us.

RE: $150 !!!???
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 4:39:29 PM #
I have the T28World phone with the Bluetooth adapter and headset. It's nice, but I can't wait to get a T39 phone with built-in supportso I can lose the snap-op module.

Works like a champ with my laptop and Xircom BT card.

RE: $150 !!!???
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 6:30:03 PM #
Yes i agree most bluetooth hardware on the market right now is toooooooo expansive. but I think in time the prices will drop.

Not one new technology came cheap to the market
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/14/2001 5:24:31 AM #
That's impossible. Not IrDA, not USB or 802.11 was cheap at the beginning. Prices will come down when volume kicks in.

Bluetooth is a great CABLE REPLACEMENT (not my first choice as LAN) technology: PDA, MP3 player, car audio system, headset, wristwatch, keyboard, etc.

Device makers expand on wireless
By Michael Kanellos;Stephen Shankland CNET
LAS VEGAS--After several years of promotion by hardware manufacturers, wireless computing appears to be heading for the watershed of mass acceptance.

Consumer electronics manufacturers are increasingly incorporating one form or another of wireless networking--typically the systems known as 802.11b or Bluetooth--into notebooks and other devices, according to product managers at Mobile Focus, a product showcase that took place on the eve of the Comdex (news - web sites) trade show here. Last year, many manufacturers merely showed off products that eventually would include wireless capabilities. Now, those products are starting to hit the market.


Open vs. Proprietary

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 3:27:25 PM #
Interesting point on an advantage of proprietary technology vs. open standards. Sony's IO standard for their Memory Stick has long been finished and the first M Stick IO device will be out next week. The SD Assoc. has spent the past 6 months haggling over their open standard and got it done too late to make Christmas sales. Just trying to point out that open standards have disadvantages, too.

RE: Open vs. Proprietary
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 5:33:33 PM #
Is the disadvantage that we get a better standard because various companies and individuals contributed to it?

Is there even a MemoryStick I/O standard? or is it just whatever hardware and drivers that Sony hacks together to work with it?

RE: Open vs. Proprietary
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 10:01:15 PM #
> Is there even a MemoryStick I/O standard?

Sony has a set of specifications for Memory Stick expansion modules to allow companies to develop for it.

RE: Open vs. Proprietary
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 11:37:54 PM #
Sorry, but no, I don't want a URL, I want an answer. I've tried to look at Sony's sites on this before and they seem to have no clear info. Of course it is possible to hack a I/O device into looking like a memory device and hack a driver on top of that, that's basically how they work anyhow. What I want to know is if Sony actually provides a protocol(s) for hardware and software developers to develop I/O devices. Based on the lame answers I keep getting to this question and the lack of info on Sony's site, either the answer must be "no" or "it's proprietary".

RE: Open vs. Proprietary
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/14/2001 1:08:21 AM #
The info you are looking for is on but you can't have it without being a Sony licensee.

The original point of this thread wasn't that the Memory Stick wasn't proprietary; it is. The point was that it is easier for one company to make up its mind than it is for a whole collection of companies to come to a consensus. As much as this obviously goes against your grain, the fact is Sony came up with an I/O method faster than the SD Association did. The proof is that Sony has a product out before any comparable SD products are.

Whether that solution is better is debatable. And you don't get to be a part of the debate because you've already admitted you know almost nothing about what Sony has done. Despite this, you've already made up your mind that it must be bad. That's pretty sloppy thinking.

This point is probably moot anyway. The SD/MemoryStick war will be fought over price and marketing power, not who has the most graceful solution. As long as it works, users don't care about the code.

If you can't get over this knee-jerk reaction that proprietary is always bad, you'll have to quit using the proprietary Palm OS. The Yopy is supposed to be out soon running Linux. You might be much happier giving it a try.

RE: Open vs. Proprietary
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/14/2001 9:27:15 AM #
It's pretty clear that you don't have any actual info to provide, and you like to phrase things so they treat "method" and "standard" as if they were the same thing, so as you put it: "you don't get to be a part of the debate".

Palm has had an SD Bluetooth card for a long time now. Unless you can prove that Sony actually has a MemoryStick I/O standard, all you are showing is that by not creating/following standards you can bring a product more quickly to market. By not having standards you make it more difficult for other third parties to do so. Has anyone other than Sony been able to create a "MemoryStick I/O" device?

Palm's poor execution as usual

I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 7:24:37 PM #
Overpromise and Under-Deliver. Poor Management who can't get it done and has nothing to offer but excuses.

RE: Palm's poor execution as usual
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/13/2001 9:59:12 PM #
You'll have to blame Toshiba or the SDA Assoc. this time. Palm's management had nothing to do with it. Or do you not care about that and are just looking for excuses to rag on Palm?

RE: Palm's poor execution as usual
I.M. Anonymous @ 11/14/2001 7:52:10 AM #
The ULTIMATE responsibility lies with Palm. It's their job to rally the forces and get this stuff done. It's their job to keep the balls in the air and get it done.

RE: Palm's poor execution as usual
Xian @ 11/14/2001 10:49:48 AM #
Then obviously you're an idiot if you don't even have one clue about how standards associations work.



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