Comments on: Symantec AntiVirus 2002 for Palm OS Announced

Symantec AntiVirus 2002 for Palm OS scans for and detects viruses in Palm devices, providing real-time protection and on-demand scans. It checks for viruses when the user opens an application, beams files, navigates the Internet or synchronizes data with a PC. This app downloads the latest virus definitions to the PC when it connects to the Internet. The latest definitions are then transferred automatically during HotSync sessions. It will be available soon for $40. Customers receive one year of virus definition updates free.
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How Much??????

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 10:18:21 AM #
$40 for a Palm virus checker when there are no real viri???? This reminds me of the Psion virus checker that one of the big anti-virus houses wrote (it may well have been Norton too) that scanned for the handful of joke, 'make your Psion do odd things' applications since there were no real, harmful viri.

RE: How Much??????
mtg101 @ 12/12/2001 10:27:23 AM #
So don't buy it yet. At least when viruses do start to appear on PalmOS, there's a solution to it. We'd all be screaming loud at Norton if Palm viruses started appearing and they didn't have a solution.


Cheers
Russell



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russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
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Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos
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RE: How Much??????
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 10:33:35 AM #
Norton is not the only company out there that makes an Anti-Virus program for Palm. DataFellows the ones that make F-Prot and F-Secure for PC make F-Secure for PalmOS.
And it's only $25 and out now.
http://www.datafellows.com/wireless/palm/av4palm/

RE: How Much??????
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 10:33:53 AM #
Actually the most recent virus for the palmos was this palmboy copy which was illegal.
PDANature - http://pdan.has.it

RE: How Much??????
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 10:39:41 AM #
Assuming that you don't load warez onto your Palm (in which case you deserve to have your PDA wiped) how can Palm viri be transmitted? I personally would not use install or load an unknown file that was beamed or emailed to me (pretty much the approach you have to take with Windows these days).

RE: How Much??????
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 10:44:05 AM #
This is useless software! Where is the virus that it is goign to fight? ANd if you do get a virus on your Palm OS device whats teh worse that can happen? Oh spend 25 minutes to reload everything back on. AFAIK Palm viruses can't affect Windows systems and vice-versa.

RE: How Much??????
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 11:11:15 AM #
I don't think we know that yet. I'll admit that I don't know enough about the under-the-hood workings of a Palm, but it seems to me a virus could be made to mess with the hotsync process. And that leaves you open to all sorts of problems (non-synched data, overwritten data, unreliable backups, etc...)

I think it's a good thing that there are Palm based anti-virus packages out there. We may not need one today, but there's a good chance we'll need one eventually.

RE: How Much??????
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 2:32:25 PM #
$40? Too expensive!!! Does anyone know how the Virus Scan works in BackupBuddy? Does it really get updated?

RE: How Much??????
mtg101 @ 12/13/2001 4:08:12 AM #
>Assuming that you don't load warez onto your Palm
>(in which case you deserve to have your PDA wiped)
>how can Palm viri be transmitted?

There are lots of ways. You could download a game from a reputable download site that has a Trojan virus in it. Once run it could create a new file that was the virus (to be activated at a later date), you'd never know the game was the problem.

Viri can be spread via IR communications. There's nothing to stop an application noticing that the IR is about to send, then jumping in and taking control and transmitting a virus instead / as well as the intended file to be beamed.

If your Palm is used wirelessly, there're many more ways. Badly formated SMSs could cause problems, as could attachements to emails (for eample MultiMail can send attachments to other applications).

What about if your device has Bluetooth? Would be quite easy for a badly written BT app to allow a maicious 3rd party to get into your device, or even for an app to install a deliberate back-door to your Palm. 802.11b has similar problems, and it is certainly susceptible to a simple ping based DOS attach from anyone in the same area.

And then there's WebClipping - did you know that a link in a Web Clipping page can launch any application on your device? Great way to activate an application that sends all your personal data to an address on the internet. And it wouldn't be hard to cover this up and make it look like the link you clicked was slow.

That enough ways to get a virus on a Palm?

>ANd if you do get a virus on your Palm OS device
>whats teh worse that can happen? Oh spend 25
>minutes to reload everything back on.

To start with, the virus could easily be backed up in the same way as your other programs - so once you restore your Palm, it will once again have the virus. You'd have to know which file was the virus - which would be very hard, as it may not be called anything obvious. It could easilly look like a system file called 'datebk_US' that wasn't even of type 'appl' (application).

Or perhaps the virus installs itself in flash memory so it's always there. Maybe it crashes your device when it is reset. Not many people would know how to stop a reset-crash and then be able to delete a file from flash.

Maybe the virus doesn't activate in a loud and obvious way. Maybe it just deletes a couple of contacts and todo items, every day (making sure they're not backup up next time you HotSync). You may loose quite a bit of data permenantely before realising you have a problem.


There are many ways your PalmOS device could be infected, and many ways that this infection could be damaging. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't.

Cheers
Russell

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russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
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Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos
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I think.....

Davy @ 12/12/2001 10:27:00 AM #
that virus protection software only encourages people to make viruses.

RE: I think.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 11:26:25 AM #
Right. And having local law enforcement only encourages people to commit crimes.

RE: I think.....
popko @ 12/12/2001 1:26:38 PM #
LOL

To some extant this is true. :)

RE: I think.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/13/2001 11:12:55 AM #
I think ...

there is a small percentage of virus writers who enjoy the challenge of getting past the various security barriers.

Everybody else is out to be cool, be destructive, or commit crimes. Do you think the guy who wrote the virus that inserted into your Quicken application electronic funds transfers to his account wouldn't have done it unless you were running antivirus software? You're whacked if you do.

How much will it slow your Palm ?

kikan @ 12/12/2001 10:57:54 AM #
Maybe it's a good thing to have virus protection (even if no virus exists), but how long will it take when we launch a file, beam something... to check that's it safe ?

One of the most important features of a Palm is it's ability to respond quickly and not to keep you waiting like if you were sitting in front of a desktop computer.

I worry it may be useless and slow.

RE: How much will it slow your Palm ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 1:37:19 PM #
I have Norton AV for Palm 2001. It seems that the palm is not slowed, at least I didn't noticed. They updated the virus definiton on 12/5/01. The second last update was Mar, 2001. They are 3 viri was listed within the software for Mar update. I did not check how many viri were listed with the Dec 2001 update.

Symantec

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 11:21:26 AM #
Worst service of any software company I've ever dealt with. They ripped me and many other customers off on their buggy version 8.0 of WinFax. Right up until the day they dropped support for it they kept promising bugfixes that never appeared. Then they replaced their support forums and people with new ones that acted like they'd never heard about the problems before, and insisted that we buy the upgrade to the lastest version for a fix. Of course the "upgrade" was more expensive than the "full release" of the previous version, and people were already posting that the same problems existed in the new version.

That company will never get another penny from me.


RE: Symantec
CKMOOSE @ 12/12/2001 7:20:21 PM #
I had the same expierence with WinFax... Of course, that's a different animal all together. But, it does make me a bit nervous about dealing with Symantic.

Nortain AV and Norton Utilities is a Trojan Horse by itself

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 1:27:15 PM #
I swear to God that after installing Norton's applications my computer crashes much much much much more often. Whenever they do anything in the background there's a pretty big chance it'll crash my computer, so my conclusion is it's just a trojan horse pretending to be useful.

Def will fill up the Palm

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/12/2001 2:41:07 PM #
With limited memory I can see the Anti-Virus software takeing up more and more of it. Soon the only thing you can have on your palm is the AV software and virus def. It would be safe but usless.

waste of money...for most people.

I.M. Anonymous @ 12/13/2001 10:12:59 AM #
There are currently only 4 ways to get data into your Palm from external sources, not counting keyboards or graffiti.

1. Hotsync: PC-based virus scanners keep you covered here, so any program installed this way is safe.

2. IR: This is a limited-range thing, so you always know who is sending you stuff. If they send you a virus, you can reach out and grab them!

3. Wireless: This is the ONLY valid reason to use a palm-based virus scanner. Currently there are very few people using this, when compared with the size of the number of PalmOS devices out there. And the way the wireless services are going, this isn't going to change anytime soon.

4. Cards: This is relatively new (except for TRGPro's). For ROM-based cards, this isn't a problem any more than a virus on a CD for PC's. An alarm goes out and everyone is warned about it. For other cards, it's the same as floppies. And to get data on these cards, you need to use (1) (2) or (3), so this in itself isn't much of a problem.

Note that there is a small window from when a virus is discovered until there is a signature for it, but that has always been that way, and there's little you can do about it.

In short, don't waste your money unless you have a wireless service and you download programs that way.

RE: waste of money...for most people.
mtg101 @ 12/13/2001 11:51:30 AM #
In general I agree with you that most people don't need PalmOS anti-virus software yet. But as time passes more people will find that they require it.

To address your points individually:

>1. Hotsync: PC-based virus scanners keep you
>covered here, so any program installed this way is
>safe.

Are you sure? I certainly wasn't aware that PC based virus checkers also checked for viruses on other platforms. I'm sure that your .PRC and .PDB are checked, but is the virus checker looking for Palm specific viruses? (and if so, is it also looking for PocketPC ones, and BlackBerry ones, and Symbian ones, and Stinger ones, and so on... if so it's wasting a lot of time doing this for all the platforms you don't own).

Even if some anti virus sotware does this, do they all? I'd suggest people check their AV software before assuming they can HotSync and old crap to their device.


>2. IR: This is a limited-range thing, so
>you always know who is sending you stuff.
>If they send you a virus, you can reach
>out and grab them!

This assumes that the virus activates as soon as you receive / run it. What if you are beamed a game, check it works, play it a few times, get bored of it and then delete it. But... during this time, this innocent looking game has installed a trojan application onto your Palm? What if it beams itself to other devices every time you beam to someone, all the time without you even realising you've got a virus? Then at some datein the future... you and everyone you've beamed to get hit by a nasty virus?

>3. Wireless: This is the ONLY valid reason
>to use a palm-based virus scanner. Currently
>there are very few people using this, when
>compared with the size of the number of PalmOS
>devices out there. And the way the wireless
>services are going, this isn't going to
>change anytime soon.

At the moment, wireless operation on the Palm don't pose a huge problem. Most people can't get email attachements, mail programs don't have builtin scripting, and files aren't downloaded and then run on the Palm.

However, that doesn't mean there aren't risks, as there are email attachments that can be read (for example using MultiMail), and WebClipping (and other browsers) alow the execution of any application on the device without the user having to OK it. Combined with a trojan application, this could easilly result in all your Palm's information being sent to an address on the internet.

As for the future of wireless data access, its going to keep getting bigger. Maybe not in the US where coverage, proprietory standards and culture are preventing uptake, but in the rest of the world expect to see wireless data access rise quickly as Bluetooth and GPRS take off next year (Bluetooth and GPRS gives you an always on wireless connection via a (cell) phone).


>4. Cards: This is relatively new (except
>for TRGPro's). For ROM-based cards,
>this isn't a problem any more than a
>virus on a CD for PC's. An alarm goes
>out and everyone is warned about it.
>For other cards, it's the same as floppies.

Yeah - and they used to spread viruses quite well as I remember.

>And to get data on these cards, you need
>to use (1) (2) or (3), so this in itself
>isn't much of a problem.

Well... not completely true. Someone may give you a card, you may get one second hand, you may borrow a card off someone. These are all opportunities for your device to be infected. Also there are other ways for data to get on a card than the above 3 ways - card readers remove the need for a HotSync (which may be when AV software checks Palm files for viruses). Cards are used in other devices, phones, cameras, robot dogs... lots more opportunities for viri to infect yor card.

Cheers
Russell



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russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
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Diga ao Falante pelos Mortos
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Hmmm... Spend $40.00 or get Palm AV Free? Tough decision

TDS @ 12/14/2001 8:28:10 AM #
$40.00 is a little steep for this kind of software. I think Symantec did not do their homework on this one. Palm software almost always costs a fraction of its windows equivelant. This might sell for $14.95, but I doubt that they can get a lot of people to shell out $40.00.

Computer Associates (Makers of InnoculateIT) has a free Palm OS AV software available from their website. Don't underestimate InoculateIT as AV for your PC either. They are the only AV software that I have found that offers free AV signatures for life.

Here is the link to the website. Do a search for "palm antivirus" and you will get right to the page.
http://antivirus.ca.com/

Doug

RE: Hmmm... Spend $40.00 or get Palm AV Free? Tough decision
TDS @ 12/14/2001 8:33:41 AM #
Whoops... Make that above link www.cai.com and search for palm antivirus. The link I gave is for the Windows version that is no longer free. (The upgrades are free for life, but the software is not)

Doug

Another free Palm anti-virus program:
TROLL @ 12/21/2001 7:50:40 PM #
http://www.antivirus.com/free_tools/wireless/#palm


As others have said, though, this type of product is totally useless (for 99.9999% of users).


- Trolly

****************************************
The trolls always have the last laugh...

RE: Hmmm... Spend $40.00 or get Palm AV Free? Tough decision
TROLL @ 12/21/2001 8:51:18 PM #
Here's the direct links:

Program:
http://download.antivirus.com/ftp/products/pccillin/pccipalm.zip

Virus definition updates:
http://www.antivirus.com/download/pattern.asp#Wireless


- Trolly

****************************************
The trolls always have the last laugh...

AntiVirus My Foot!!

PIC mobile user @ 3/24/2002 8:03:22 AM #
The Symantec AntiVirus we have on our computer is terrible. In fact, it acts as the virus and causes trouble with our computer. How could I trust it to work on my Palm without screwing it up??
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