MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Info on Memory Stick Licencing Fees Available

Sony has recently added to its Memory Stick site a section on licencing the technology, including a sample licensing agreement. Sony uses a flat-fee policy. Each company that licences the Memory Stick pays 500,000 Yen/year, which is about $3,800. There is no charge for each unit sold. There is no additional fee for the Memory Stick Duo, the new smaller form, though there is one for MagicGate Memory Sticks. A licensee is allowed to make both regular Memory Sticks and the MS Duo and any device that makes use of them under this same agreement.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (66 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Comments Closed Comments Closed
This article is no longer accepting new comments.

Down

industry standard

SaxonMan @ 1/27/2002 1:23:36 PM #
interesting... sounds like ms is getting some industry standard....
but we'll see...

regards,
SaxonMan

--------------------------------------
may the holy palmostles be with you

dear Anti-Sony Trolls -

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 1:25:12 PM #
Now you can go buy your T615c's in good conscience!!! Memory Stick is OPEN! All aboard!!!

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 1:27:22 PM #
Ummm, no. While companies can licence it, that doesn't make it open. The only company that makes any decisions on the Memory Stick specs is Sony. I'm not saying that's always a bad thing. The Palm OS isn't an open standard, though it gets a LOT of input from its licensees. But the SD standard is truly open, with representatives from companies in the SD Association working together to make decisions.

Just trying the keep the facts straight.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 2:47:24 PM #
You are right that its not really open, but it is good to see that sony aren't charging over the top for licenses. It will be nice to have more people using and making memory sticks as it should improve prices.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 6:27:36 PM #
Who actually finds this amazing? Sure, sony is offering extremely cheap licensing NOW. If they became the preferred memory media, I'm sure that trend would continue.

Hats off to open-media formats like SD. I think we've all seen Sony's strong-arm media tactics in the past (CDROM) & Music. Let's hope this one falls on its face (Mini-Disc).

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 6:29:05 PM #
Whatever. SD and Compact Flash have a commanding lead in the Palm, Pocket PC and other markets. Memory Stick is still essentially Sony only as far as products you can use them in. I/O type Memory Sticks are still essentially non-existant.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
popko @ 1/27/2002 6:59:39 PM #
"Memory Stick is still essentially Sony only as far as products you can use them in."

My Aiwa stereo player which I got this summer while I was in Japan have a MS slot in it. Acer's S10, a Palm OS based PDA, has a MS slot. - somthing for you to think about before you make another un-educated statment.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
pepitoe @ 1/27/2002 7:04:53 PM #
"Let's hope this one falls on its face (Mini-Disc)."
I don't know about America but in the UK mini disc has been very popular. Memory stick will probably last as long as sony wants it to, as people wont stop buying sony because of memory stick.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 8:33:07 PM #
"Let's hope this one falls on its face (Mini-Disc)."
????
the US is one of the few countries were the MiniDisc is not popular, in Japan for example (2nd largest market) its literally everywhere..


RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 9:33:56 PM #
AIWA is 61.4% owned by Sony. So they don't count. They had no choice but to use Memory Stick.
http://www.aiwa.co.jp/corporate/ir/stock.html

Who knows why Acer chose Betastick for their Palm device. Not a smart choice on their part.

Both AIWA and Acer have joined the SD Card Association.
http://www.sdcard.org/member.htm

Sony seems to be the only digital camera maker not listed there, too.

Does anyone really think that Memory Stick has a chance?

SD is NOT open. IGNORANCE!
jeremyf @ 1/28/2002 12:40:39 AM #
God, I hate trying to correct people all the time.

SD is not an "open" standard. It's owned by three companies: Panasonic (Matsushita), Toshiba, and Sandisk, exactly the same way the Memory Stick is owned by Sony. They get no "real" input into how it works. Using the SD format costs $1000/yr, which isn't exactly pocket change either -- in the same ballpark as MS.

Here's the list of SD member companies. A member company is defined as someone who pays SD to license their products. http://www.sdcard.org/member.htm

Here's the list of MS member companies. Note the page is nearly identical in wording and such. All they do is pay Sony to develop MS products. http://www.memorystick.org/msinfo/eng/memberlist/index.html

CompactFlash costs no money to license. It's the only "real" open format. SD and MS are for-profit formats. Outside of the PDA industry MS has MUCH higher marketshare. The only company (outside the PDA industry, which for some reason has embraced SD) that has made product lines based around SD is Panasonic, which owns SD just like Sony owns MS.

Pioneer is starting to make CD players that use MS for MP3's. Samsung is making DVD players that can read MS for pictures and audio.

In my opinion, SD is a completely worthless format except for its size. Proprietary security standards, jacked up prices (it is NOT comparable to memory stick, even on Ebay or pricegrabber), very few possibilities for peripherals. Since the Duo is about the same size, I hope SD dies quickly once people realize the "Secure" part of it is worthless. Even Hewlett-Packard, which uses SD on their PDA's, just added Memory Stick to their photo printers but not SD. SD is only used on PDA's because of their size.

Personally, I like Compact Flash the most, but Memory Stick is second best in my book. It even has 2x or better transfer rate compared to SD and others.

But I said all this on Brighthand already. :(

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 1:04:55 AM #
Thanks, Jeremy. That was a good one.

Also in Japan, MS is more widespread than SD. If MS has a 25% market share, it is definitely higher in Japan. NEC's new notebooks provide a MS adapter so that those MS users can buy their notebook instead of Sony's Vaios. There are more than 10 makes of MS readers/writers now while there was only Sony brand available a year ago. I have seen Pioneer and Kenwood compos and car stereos with MS, too.

People who say minidisk is a flop should visit Japan. All major manufacturers have minidisk stereos, car stereos, of course, the most popular being the partable MD players. It is actually not easy to find cassette tapes in Tokyo while the cassette walkman has few buyers here.

Things start to look even better for MS now. Sony makes almost anything - they even have a ms slot on the new TV. I am sure if they make washing machine, it will have a ms slot too. ;-) That is true for the SD owners too - Toshiba has a microwave that has SD slot in Japan.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 2:23:28 AM #
> The only company (outside the PDA industry, which for some reason has
> embraced SD) that has made product lines based around SD is Panasonic

Sure, if you exclude companies like Kodak who are using it in their digital cameras, and completely ignore devices that use MMC cards.

> It even has 2x or better transfer rate compared to SD and others.

As far as I know, the max speed in the spec for SD is way beyond Memory Stick.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 2:31:46 AM #
> SD is not an "open" standard. It's owned by three companies:
> Panasonic (Matsushita), Toshiba, and Sandisk, exactly the same
> way the Memory Stick is owned by Sony. They get no "real" input
> into how it works. Using the SD format costs $1000/yr, which isn't
> exactly pocket change either -- in the same ballpark as MS.

Let's see, this article said it was $3800 to license Memory Stick. That is just to produce them. In the same ballpark, for $4000 you can be an SDA Executive Level Member which, "may attend all meetings, entitled to vote on all SDA related matters, receive all publications of the corporation and serve on the Board of Directors." Does Sony let you do that? D'oh! No, because Memory Stick is proprietary.

Censorbot
mikecane @ 1/28/2002 9:38:17 AM #
Geez, guys, fix the AutoCensor so people can type in the Japanese company name without fear!

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 3:45:30 PM #
Open doesn't mean not owned by someone.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 4:09:50 PM #
Yes - God forbid that a company or person can work hard, invest capital, and invent a product and actually have the gall to expect to do something as loathesome as to want to make a PROFIT!!! I think that the United Nations should FORCE Sony to give away all Memory Sticks and Clie's for FREE and also MSFT should be forced to give away their Windows and Office programs for FREE too!!! These big, bad, evil companies should not be allowed to profit at the little people's expense!!! SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!!!

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 4:16:17 PM #
"for $4000 you can be an SDA Executive Level Member which, 'may attend all meetings, entitled to vote on all SDA related matters, receive all publications of the corporation and serve on the Board of Directors.'"

Can you please forward the URL where you got this info? I'd be very interested in finding out more.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 4:30:13 PM #
Uh, go to http://www.sdcard.org/ and click on "How to Join SDA".

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 4:52:54 PM #
"As far as I know, the max speed in the spec for SD is way beyond Memory Stick."

SD - 2.0MB/s max transfer speed
MS - 2.5MB/s max transfer speed

Research your information!!! That's why the Internet was created...to share information, NOT random guesses!

Also, to those that claim SD has higher capacity cards available, I've scoured the Web and found this to be wrong. There are no 256 or 512MB SD cards available.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 5:07:26 PM #
Dude, the maxtransfer speed in the SD spec is 10.0 Mbytes/sec.

Research YOUR information!!!

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 5:10:18 PM #
For that matter, the SD spec for one data line (what the Palm has) supports 2.5 Mbytes/sec, so you were wrong on that too. Does Sony pay you to spread disinformation?

SuckDig
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 5:36:53 PM #
1) K, I read that MS was 5MB/s vs. SD was 2.5MB/s. I still believe I'm right, but who cares, it doesn't matter much anyway.

2) If you "join" the SD card association, that $4k does NOT entitle you to make products, you have to pay the extra licensing fee. ALL LICENSEES of MS get to attend meetings and receive publications, so all you've proven is that it's actually more expensive to license SD if you want actual support. As for "voting," worthless. The SD spec was designed by Panasonic, Toshiba, and SanDisk. It's pretty ridiculous that I could pay $1k and be on a "board of directors."

3) Kodak does NOT use SD cards on its cameras. It uses CompactFlash on nearly all of them. I believe they experimented with SD cards on one of their cameras.. maybe more, I don't know. Definitely not their standard though. Go to kodak.com and see.

4) SD is still far more expensive than MS, and always will be. SD is based around "Secure" formatting which is a joke, since consumers clearly don't want "secure" formats right now. Just like nobody smart is buying Sony's MagicGate sticks. More expensive, no real benefit.

5) MMC and SD are not the same thing; older flash MP3 players sometimes used MMC, but not many. It's even relatively hard to find MMC cards now. Flash based players are dying; all of the top selling MP3 Players on zdnet.com, except one (strangely enough the iPaq), are CD- or hard drive-based players.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 5:57:48 PM #
"Dude, the maxtransfer speed in the SD spec is 10.0 Mbytes/sec.

Research YOUR information!!!"

You've proven my point! The 10.0MB/s transfer that SD put out is a TARGET transfer rate, not current! So if YOU do the research, insteading of simply glancing over specifications without reading the fine print, then you'd realize that the whole SD is faster crap that people like you mindlessly drone over and over again, is in fact a LIE!!!

And to respond to:
"For that matter, the SD spec for one data line (what the Palm has) supports 2.5 Mbytes/sec, so you were wrong on that too. Does Sony pay you to spread disinformation?"

How is that possible when, by SD's own admission, their max transfer rate is 2.0MB/s? Did Palm publish that or did SD?

And for the record, NO, Sony does not pay me to spread any information. I am compelled by learning and sharing information that is accurate, and not laden with biases, rumors and half-truths.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 8:27:50 PM #
> As for "voting," worthless. The SD spec was designed by Panasonic, Toshiba, and SanDisk.

Completely WRONG. Companies like Palm actively participate in the SDA to develop things like the SDIO sepcs.

> Kodak does NOT use SD cards on its cameras.

Absolutlely WRONG. Even though you try to back out of it in the statements that follow.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 8:39:49 PM #
The disinformation that you are trying to spread is getting out of hand.

> The 10.0MB/s transfer that SD put out is a TARGET transfer rate, not current!

No, SD cards currently out support the 10.0MB/s transfer rate. Go to Sandisk's website and read their card specs.

> How is that possible when, by SD's own admission, their max
> transfer rate is 2.0MB/s?

It is 2.5MB/sec. Quit posting crap you don't know anything about, and especially quit accusing people of lying when info you are posting is flat out wrong.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
jeremyf @ 1/29/2002 5:51:27 AM #
Look, smart guy. I said that NOBODY IN NON-PDA WORLD USES SD AS A STANDARD EXCEPT PANASONIC. THIS IS 100% TRUE. GO TO WWW.KODAK.COM, LOOK AT THEIR CAMERAS. ALL OF THEM EXCEPT ONE USE COMPACT FLASH, EVEN THEIR NEW ONES.

All of the SD specs were created BEFORE palm made their first expansion slot. Since you're so vague I can't tell if you mean that member companies decide how the SD format is made (which is 100% false) or whether they are an active participant in making IO devices. If so, the same is true with memory sticks.

Ridiculous. If Sony called the memory stick the "Open Flash-Based Stick Association of Cooperatives" and never marketed it as the "Sony Memory Stick," tards like yourself would love memory stick because of its "openness."

Defending SD because of its size: Great, I agree with you. Defending SD because it's an "open format": Retarded.

Sorry for the flame innocent readers; it's just that when you go to lengths to try to show people that their assumptions are wrong and somebody replies and says "nuh uh, you're wrong," it's very annoying.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:32:07 AM #
I see you are still continuing to post disinformation.

> GO TO WWW.KODAK.COM, LOOK AT THEIR CAMERAS. ALL OF
> THEM EXCEPT ONE USE COMPACT FLASH, EVEN THEIR NEW
> ONES.

The DX3215 and the DX3700 are Kodak's newest consumer cameras and they use SD. Your statement is false and vague.

> All of the SD specs were created BEFORE palm made
> their first expansion slot. Since you're so vague I
> can't tell if you mean that member companies decide
> how the SD format is made (which is 100% false) or
> whether they are an active participant in making IO
> devices. If so, the same is true with memory sticks.

Absolutely untrue. The SDIO spec was recently released and SDA members like Palm and other Pocket PC and I/O card makers were actively involved in designing the spec.

Please stop posting information here for which you clearly have zero factual knowledge.

RE: dear Anti-Sony Trolls -
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 7:23:18 PM #
>"No, SD cards currently out support the 10.0MB/s transfer rate. Go to Sandisk's website and read their card specs."

Are you a complete idiot or do you aspire to be one every waking moment of your life? Those numbers are for transfer rates between the chip controller and the memory on the card, NOT from device to card. Line 1, Line 2, Line 3, Line 4 are for developers and have no impact on how the end-user experiences data transfer from card to device. You have completely and emphatically underscored my request: DO YOUR F***ING RESEARCH. Are you an enginner? If not, then shut the hell up!!! If you are, then you're a pathetic representative.

To use your words against you:

"Quit posting crap you don't know anything about, and especially quit accusing people of lying when info you are posting is flat out wrong."

Sony 128 mb MS for $89.99 @ Best Buy

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 2:39:44 PM #
Of course, you can buy them for around $65 online, but it's good to see a B&M drop the price so precipitously.

Looks like Sony is waging the war using economics. Can anyone really validly complain about overpriced MS and their "proprietary" nature?

Also, I had to laugh at another post where someone complained that the MS was 10 times larger than SD. Huh??!!!

RE: Sony 128 mb MS for $89.99 @ Best Buy
CarlJ @ 1/27/2002 4:00:52 PM #
For what it's worth, I got a 128 MB Lexar Memory Stick from buy.com a couple weeks ago for $60.95, with a $15.00 rebate, for a total of $45.95. Prices are getting extremely reasonable if you look around a bit...

RE: Sony 128 mb MS for $89.99 @ Best Buy
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 4:14:22 PM #
No, they confused MS to mean Microsoft and not Memory Stick. MS is 10 times larger than MS, which makes it hard to fit into the slot :)

RE: Sony 128 mb MS for $89.99 @ Best Buy
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 7:57:13 PM #
Ecost is selling the Sony 128 MB at $68.00 + S&H!

http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?DPNo=977156

Long work before becoming a standard...

huggy @ 1/27/2002 3:01:24 PM #
It will be interesting to see a Sony product as a standard. For at least in europe, Sony products tend to be like the BMW's of electronics: you pay more for the brand name, but you get outstanding quality.
Now I see Sony handhelds priced way below the overpriced Palm and Handspring's and yet delivering better specifications, although they're not yet pushing the european market at its limit.

It will be cool if the Memory Stick finally becomes an open standard for solid-state memory... though I reckon sony purists will still buy sony-branded memory sticks for extra geekness :-)

Now I only hope they will focus a little more in europe and in business areas, where Pocket PC still leads the trend, or they will never make it into the european market...

-------------- huggy ---------------

RE: Long work before becoming a standard...
Edward @ 1/27/2002 3:38:05 PM #
Sony is competative in the UK. I picked up a Clie n770c for £300 and a 64Mb Ms for £45.

Price for an m505 from the same source £300, and a 64Mb SD card at £75, or £47 for a MMC.

I also grabbed a 16Mb MS for software, at £25, a SD is also £25, and a 16Mb MMC £20.

I love the m505 form factor, and everything Palm has done for this business, but Sony are better value IMHO.

Interestingly the PalmOS 5 presentation at PalmSource is a joint Sony and Palm event, according to a recent webcast.

Take a look at http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D55165
and you will see how seriously Sony is taking this business.

I like this quote from the "Sony: Delivering on a promise seminar"

'Finally, new advances in the CLIÉ™ Handheld platform and expansion technology will be shown.'

My fingers are already itching.



PalmOS is ''proprietary'' too...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 8:26:46 PM #
Maybe you should switch to a Linux handheld (Sharp). Or better yet, write your own OS and Apps and give them all away for free.

Clie PPC
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 8:30:33 PM #
The only thing holding back the Clie from really being killer is the OS. Think what Sony could do if they got rid of the Palm OS handcuffs! We may just see a Clie PPC someday.

No Clie PPC in the near future......
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 9:18:17 PM #
I think Sony made its decision based on an in-depth research, several dozen rounds of negotiation and dig really hard into the specs of OS before making the Palm commitment.

IMHO I think Sony saw the small size of Palm OS and think of the extra customized application they would stuff without getting oversized. Therefore I think it would be quite some time before we see any migration toward PPC (And remember that Japanese are famous for being slow in making such a big decision).

In addition I think Sony wants to separate themselves from electronics companies that are already offering PPC devices such as Sharp and Casio.

RE: Long work before becoming a standard...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 9:45:14 PM #
I agree. As much as I want to see a Sony PPC, I think Sony is going big on PalmOS. Incedentally did you guys notice that Palm and Sony are the only Global Platinum Sponsors? So Sony must have more information than us to stay within the PalmOS. I am sure if they go to PPC, they will make the coolest PPC too. Hopefully with OS 5.0, Sony can gives us more in multimedia and wireless (built-in bluetooth/Wi-Fi)

RE: Long work before becoming a standard...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 10:38:45 PM #
I'd guess an important part of Sony's decision was some market research. It only takes a few surveys asking the question "Would you pay $600 for a handheld computer?" and having to sit through 20 seconds of laughter to figure out that the PalmOS is the way to go.

Less than I thought?

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 4:52:48 PM #
Thought the licensing was less than that.

RE: Less than I thought?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 10:41:20 PM #
There's a lot of people who did. It's really cheap, isn't it.

MS

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 5:49:58 PM #
Does mean that Rand McNally will be able to put it atlas's on MS.

RE: MS
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 10:42:19 PM #
Yes, if it wants to. Send them some email requesting it. It can't hurt to ask.

Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 6:15:03 PM #
You might as well start calling Memory Stick 'Betastick'. I don't think it will be around for too much longer.

SD(MMC) and CompactFlash are the winners in this round of the format wars.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 6:49:16 PM #
"I don't think it will be around for too much longer."

Much longer then you think. Memory Sticks will be around as long as Sony stays in business or makes something better..

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 6:50:53 PM #
Before I get flamed for being a Sony lover, let me state that I have an m505 and fully support SD/MMC. HOwever, after reading some ridiculous posts on this site about Memory Stick/Betamax, I feel compelled to interject with some research.

It's readily apparent by the previous post that the author has little understanding of Betamax and Memory Stick, for that matter. Betamax is STILL AROUND!!! It is the preferred method of recording and playback for all the broadcast companies because of its superior quality. Sure an individual consumer may not use it, but to assume that Betamax is no more is to assume wrong.

Also, Sony is the company that created the 3.5" floppy disk and contributed to the CD-ROM, so why is it so hard to believe that their Memory Stick won't be just as ubiquitous?

And research shows that Memory STick commands 26% of the flash memory market. SD/MMC have less than 1% (NPD Intelect from recent CNET article). Granted, Compact Flash still has the lion share of the market, but with devices getting smaller and smaller, you'll see those numbers declining as manufacturers will need to migrate to a smaller format (Let's hope it's SD). But unless SD really does something to boost those numbers, I'm feeling that MS could win out.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
Davy @ 1/27/2002 6:59:26 PM #
Uhh.... that's what happended with Betamax, and they went out of business. They still made there technically superior tapes till the die they pried the building rights out of the owners cold dead hands.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 7:59:53 PM #
"You might as well start calling Memory Stick 'Betastick'. I don't think it will be around for too much longer."

Hey come on, all new products (desktop, CD-RW drive, mouse, video cams, dv cams, digital cams) that Sony is releasing now has a Memory Stick slot. For me, it is already a 'convenience' using the memory stick!

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 8:11:41 PM #
Betamax is still around, no broadcasting company does editing in VHS, the quality is too low to do multiple editing. And Sony will ensure that MS will have longevity thro' widespread inclusion in all products that it makes

FYI the one still around is Sony Betacam not Betamax..
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 8:37:43 PM #
Sony Betacam format has become the defacto broadcast video format world-wide (Digital and SX), the only similarity is the tape size, you cannot use a plain old Betamax VCR, you need a professional Betacam VCR, becouse it uses Compressed Time Division Multiplex (CTDM)for its record/playback process.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/27/2002 10:48:34 PM #
Unlike with Betamax, where the battle was only VCRs and cameras, this battle includes a lot more turf. Digital cameras, portable music players, PDAs, notebook computers, and so on...

From what I can see only Sony is making cameras with Betastick slots.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

It will really suck when you have photos to show or music to play for somebody, but their player doesn't have a stupid Beta Stick slot. Fortunately there are adapters, but you will have to carry them around as it will be YOUR problem.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
Edward @ 1/28/2002 3:28:40 AM #
Why does nobody seem to register any more?

I think the betastick comment is pointless. I don't see the universal acceptance of a single memory card format for some time. As it is, all the people I know that have digital devices use different media, CF, Smart Media, etc.

Maybe the MS will become like 3.5" disks, maybe it will be like the Minidisc (which still seems to be the portable music format of choice with people I know). Maybe the closed nature of the format will hold it back, maybe it will mean that it won't take 9 months to "agree I/O standards".

What gets me is why it matters to so much to certain people that it fails.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 5:37:52 AM #
They cannot stand anything made by Sony.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 6:41:12 AM #
That is what the forums are for....for rants and whinning, some things will get to some people and some things will not

Freedon of choice and speech and so on....get the picture?



RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 8:59:45 AM #
To those SD lover, you are sour losers. Bye bye, SD ,I will miss you.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 2:48:51 PM #
I guess attituds like this is the reason why most americans are still living in the 1980s ...

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
jeremyf @ 1/29/2002 5:59:58 AM #
> Unlike with Betamax, where the battle was only VCRs and cameras, this battle includes a lot more turf. Digital cameras, portable music players, PDAs, notebook computers, and so on...

> From what I can see only Sony is making cameras with Betastick slots.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

This is true. No major company makes a camera line with SecureAlphaDigital cards, however. SmartMedia is still very popular in new cameras, but just about everyone agrees that it's technically the worst format.

> It will really suck when you have photos to show or music to play for somebody, but their player doesn't have a stupid Beta Stick slot. Fortunately there are adapters, but you will have to carry them around as it will be YOUR problem.

That's very funny! And exactly what "notebooks" read SD cards? Sony, one of the biggest laptop makers in America, has MS slots. HP's popular line of Photosmart printers/readers read MS, not SD. Mini DVD players from Samsung read MS, not SD.

RE: Memory Stick will go the way of Betamax...
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 6:24:25 PM #
>That's very funny! And exactly what "notebooks" read SD cards?

Toshiba, Sharp and a bunch of other lesser known brands do. Oh, of course Panasonic.

SD cards will fit completely inside of a CF adapter card, too. So there it won't be sticking out of notebooks like some ThinkPads that have gone to CF for one of the slots.

>Sony, one of the biggest laptop makers in America, has MS slots.

For some reason that doesn't surprise me. Problem is they are stubborn and won't add other slots until it is probably too late.

>HP's popular line of Photosmart printers/readers read MS, not SD.

Not the one I own. Must be the more expensive model. Hey, those slots aren't free. But since it does have a CF slot it is a non-issue.

By the way, read the Sony support site and you will see that some 'white' Memory Sticks 'may' not work... whatever that means. They recommend you copy to a computer and print that way.

HP is a board member of the SD Card Association.
http://www.sdcard.org/member.htm

>Mini DVD players from Samsung read MS, not SD.

I probably won't be buying one of those. <g> For what it is worth, Samsung is also a board member.

Seems like Sony against the world to me. Don't want to be seen as bashing them. It's just that I can't see where MS will fit in a few years from now. Let's hope SanDisk and Lexar can help them out with their "Next Generation Memory Stick".

But which one is actually BETTER?

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 11:13:49 AM #
For all the rants and raves about the memory stick, comparisons to BetaMax, etc, no one has yet mentioned whether or not the Memory Stick is actually fundamentally better or worse than the other types of memory currently available. I am skeptical that the only difference is a question of compatibility and which devices support which format. Does anyone know if Memory Stick is any faster / more reliable than either SD or compact flash? Are the guts of these memory units all the same and we thus simply dealing with a question of interface, or is there a crucial technical difference between the formats that we are overlooking here?

RE: But which one is actually BETTER?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 12:56:13 PM #
If you are just looking for memory and not an I/O card, I don't think it makes much difference. On paper, SD supports faster speeds, but in the current handhelds (at least the Palm OS ones) the hardware interfaces keep the speed differences pretty minimal.

RE: But which one is actually BETTER?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 4:55:13 PM #
heheh this argument is really irrelevant. Listen to this and think about it: "It will really suck when you have photos to show or music to play for somebody, but their player doesn't have a stupid Beta Stick slot. Fortunately there are adapters, but you will have to carry them around as it will be YOUR problem." How many things out there really have SD slots anyways? After all, didn't we already agree there are 26x as many MS out there on the market right now as SD cards? And even if you DID pop the SD card out of your mythical SD mp3 player and pop it in a Palm, IT WOULDN'T WORK ANYWAYS!! Palm's big drawback: everything needs to be in pdb format anyways! So this is all irrelevant. I think you should buy a clie or m50x based on how much you like the handheld, expansion's a secondary concern. But let's face it: MS is cheaper. It's no different performance-wise, and as of right now, there's a lot more cameras, mp3 players, and laptops with MS slots than SD slots. So why bother insisting that SD is a lot better? They're equals, performance wise, and MS clearly wins in price and ubiquitous-ness. No, it's not "open" but neither is SD (at least not in the GNU/Linux sense), it still costs money to get a position in the SD decision-making board. So please, I'm not knocking SD, I just want to know: What are the actual ADVANTAGES the SD has over MS? (and don't say "open standard"; it's not "open" it's just sort of "ajar"). And what's the benefit of an open standard: Now that it's a set standard, no one's gonna play with the specs due to reverse-compatibility anyways!!!

In closing, use what the hell you want to, I'll go buy a 128 MB MS for $65 now while you shell out for your so-called "open" standard. It's funny when SD people are militant without listing any RATIONAL arguments for why SD is "better". Huh.

RE: But which one is actually BETTER?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 5:17:05 PM #
> MS clearly wins in price and ubiquitous-ness.

If ubiquitous-ness means essentially only on Sony devices. SD is on Palms, HandEras, Pocket PC, and Linux devices; on Kodak and Panasonic digital cameras, and in various branded MP3 players.

> No, it's not "open" but neither is SD (at least not in
> the GNU/Linux sense), it still costs money to get a
> position in the SD decision-making board.

Open has little to do with money, even in the GNU/Linux sense. If you look at how much these licenses/memberships cost and add up the numbers, there's probably barely enough money pay a few tech people, the people that manage the documents, lawyers, and office space. It does have a lot to do with if Palm or whoever wants to contribute to the spec, the opportunity is there.

I hate to tell you this, but you are the one who sounds "militant".

RE: But which one is actually BETTER?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/28/2002 8:32:40 PM #
OK you're listing the variety of devices with SD, not the actual number of them in use. As has been stated, there's almost no remaining flash memory mp3 players on the market these days, so that's moot anyways; and as was stated earlier: MS, 26% market share. SD, 1%. Hard to argue with that. And MS is way cheaper.

That's not to say that MS is "better", I think that's an irrelevant point as even if the devices have a 100 MB/sec theoretical limit, the limit arises in the 33 mhz processors, etc. in the units themselves.

I'm just saying: Betamax? Please! Betamax never owned 26x the market of its competitors!

People talk about things with SD, there's a lot more out there with MS, even non-sony: In Japan, Sharp is selling an MP3 player that uses Memory Stick, and car-audio maker Alpine is shipping in-dash players with a Memory Stick slot. Epson has printers on the market in the United States that support the Memory Stick.

How many in-dash stereos, printers or laptops use SD? So stop making things up!

Observe: There's been no real evidence posted as to the following opinion: "SD is better than MS" (why?) "and SD is more common" (patently false, check the numbers of SD cards vs MS) "and MS is like Betamax."

OK. I may sound militant, I'm just trying to say: If you're going to make a claim about something, BACK IT UP. All the people crying "betamax" post no evidence. This is a forum, i know opinions come into play, but the "MS suck, they just do and they're all bad" leaves the same sour taste that "jews are all dirty moneylenders and we should kill them" does.

Not that I'm calling m505 owners nazis, but please... don't make things up without looking at the facts. You'll often be surprised by them

<

Let's just be honest here; it's all good. MS for you if you like clies, SD on your palm, CF on a handera (CF cards are much cheaper than SD or MS). It's not like the $20 for a 32MB MS is a lifetime investment; most of us here have probably spent that much on screen protectors...

--Why can't we all just get along??



RE: But which one is actually BETTER?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:47:47 AM #
Where are you getting 26% market share from? I'd be surprised if Memory Stick even has 10%, since CF and SmartMedia total something like at least 70-80% of the market.

Anyhow, this is a handheld related board and practically all the new handhelds from manufacturers other than Sony are using SD. Outside of Japan and maybe China, essentially no manufaturuers are showing interest in using Memory Stick for media in other products either. I see no reason for those tendencies to change in the future.

I wasn't the one who made the Betamax comment. Anyhow, at least Betamax was a better format.

RE: But which one is actually BETTER?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 8:01:11 PM #
>"Where are you getting 26% market share from? I'd be surprised if Memory Stick even has 10%, since CF and SmartMedia total something like at least 70-80% of the market."

See http://news.com.com/2100-1040-268460.html.

>"at least Betamax was a better format"

Are you stating that SD is tecnically better than MS? If so, where's your proof?



Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: