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    Comments on: Rumor: Info Leaked on Palm i705An anonymous source has leaked a great deal of information on Palm's soon-to-be-released wireless handheld, the i705. Much of the information that was released about this device when it received FCC approval last fall has been confirmed but there is also some additional information. The primary feature of the i705 is that it offers always-on email. The user is notified as soon as a new email is received, even if the handheld is turned off. Also, it comes with AOL Instant Messenger and the i705 will notify the user when an instant message arrives, too.
Detailed Comment View (208 Total Comments)
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way. login or register for free in order to post comments.  RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
The $10/50K plan is the same as currently offered for the Palm VII/VIIx. You pay in 1K increments over that. This is basically lifeline service -- something you can use for an occasional web search or email on the road, but not for everyday use.
$35 for unlimited is pretty nice, IMHO. The issue is that it uses the Mobitex network, which was designed for two-way paging, not full-time data access. It looks like Palm was able to negotiate the price of network access down from their PVII contract, but Cingular still has to make their money, and with unlimited usage, they are taking the risk with each customer that he or she might use much more than $35 worth of bandwidth. I guess Palm had usage statistics from the RIM device and the VII to show that the unlimited customers weren't as bad as originally thought. RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?Foo Fighter @ 1/18/2002 12:32:08 PM #
What a disgrace! I honestly believed Palm would revolutionize the wireless market by offering cheap unlimited e-mail access to the masses.
Palm shoots off another toe! I'm finding it very hard to feel sorry for this company. RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?
And how are they supposed to do provide cheap reliable wireless email to the masses? Just what magic wand did you want them to wave?
Let's face it, the wireless networks in this country are a pathetic joke. What is Palm supposed to do? Build they're own reliable wireless network nationwide and sell access for pennies? The US just isn't ready for cheap reliable wireless access yet. The infrastructure just plain isn't there (or isn't being used properly really). Move to Sweden if you want cheap reliable wireless. Or Israel. Go anywhere but here. RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:19:14 PM #
Wireless in the US is bad when compared to Europe for one very big reason, land mass. The US has huge expanses of nothingness. It's much easier to reliably cover a smaller area.
RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:08:21 PM #
We should blowup the Westcoast and concentrate on the east. ITll mean less airports=lets planebombs, less parameter=less security requirement.
just a thought. =) graph RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:52:35 PM #
I never comment on these, but those of you who accept that the US has lousy wireless access because of landmass are somewhat misguided, to say the least. Canada has excellent digital access covering 90% of the population; while you don't have access, say, on a dirt road between two cities, that's something that's likely not even available in Sweden or Israel.
As for having crappy wireless access in your major cities...the more people complain, the better service will get. Just as an example, I pay 25.00 a month for unlimited evenings, weekends, and 12-1 pm, plus 50 daytime minutes on my mobile phone. That's in Canadian dollars, which translates to about 17.00 US. You just can't beat that in the US. Not trying to make the US look bad...but you really should give your wireless companies a good kick in the ass because they seem to be gouging their customers for inferior service, using geography as an excuse. RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:38:54 PM #
Lets kick jamie lee curtis' ass. That bitch thinks we should throw our regular phone and use voicestreams for all calls.
RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:45:43 PM #
Jamie Lee..
If we played fetch with our regular phones and relied on our GSM Voicestream...we would all be "out of touch" RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?volcanopele @ 1/18/2002 7:20:59 PM #
Hey I am related to Jamie Lee Curtis (okay, through a great-grandfather but thats not the point). She is just the messenger. Let find the head of Cingular Wireless instead?
RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:21:42 PM #
Canada Vs. The US
This is to the guy that said 90 percent of the population in Canada is served by wireless...90% of the population is also located within 100 miles of the US border. A much easier proposition for companies then to out fit the whole US. So you are plain wrong. The reason we have such lousy coverage is cost, populations too far out of cities, and the amount of land and people. RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 3:02:01 AM #
Part of the story in Europe is SMS, Small Message Service from wireless phones. Here in the U.S., I can send an SMS message from one Sprint phone to another, but not to a Verizon phone. The fact that our competing wireless phone companies can't get together on this, and make it possible to send SMS from phone to phone regardless of the carrier, makes SMS worthless.
That's why in Europe, SMS which is wireless e-mail via cellphones, took off. It's worth it to learn to type on a 10 key over there. Wireless email will always be expensive untill everyone starts using it, and there can be an economy of scale. It won't happen until our carriers start cooperating on SMS. RE: Where's the beef? -- er, email?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:04:08 PM #
Landmass is not the only reason why the US mobile services are behind. Another one is that you pay for incoming calls, so most people switch their phones off when not making calls. In Europe, the caller pays, so everyone leaves their mobiles on all the time. Result - many more phone calls (Italians now have their handsets surgically attached to their ears) and the price of calls drops dramatically, generating further growth.
The use of just one phone standard also helped. 
 My Prediction...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:28:59 PM #
This device seems as though it is way past it's time. It doesn't seem much different than the Palm VIIx except for the fact that it has a smaller form factor and runs a more recent OS. The device is B&W ... which seems very antiquated for a device that _should_ be the top-of-the-line for Palm. And the rate plans are outrageous. I just don't see how this thing will sell with devices like the Treo being released at the same time...
RE: compared too...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:38:25 PM #
Sure, color is a must on any device selling for more than 300 these days. But the service plan is a huge drop from what the palm.net pricing is now... isn't it?!
RE: My Prediction...montyburns @ 1/18/2002 12:44:56 PM #
I bet you wonder why people like apples when they can eat oranges, too.
The Treo is a cell phone pda combo. The i705 is a wireless PDA. Similar, like apples and oranges being round, but different in many key characteristics. I would love to have a i705. I don't care about color - I want wireless access, and the i705 offers that.
RE: My Prediction...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:45:16 PM #
Sure, the wireless pricing is almost "reasonable" ... I would actually consider paying $35/month for an unlimited plan. BUT, I would only be willing to do so if the "upgrade" from my current m505 was worth it (in terms of PDA functionality and usability). Palm made a "mistake" (of course this is my opinion) by releasing the m505 for high-end users and then, 6 months later, releasing this wireless device without color. It just doesn't make sense. How do they expect to lure high-end users (ie, those willing to spend the $$$ on a device AND a wireless plan) if this thing doesn't meet the specs of the previous high-end device (the m505)?
RE: My Prediction...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:48:13 PM #
I second the flop motion... All in favor?
RE: My Prediction...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:54:07 PM #
Will it flop because of the Treo? The Treo, which will also be B&W? Oh, I know -- you Handspring apologists like to point out that the color Treo will be out later this year. Folks, Handspring can't even get the B&W Treo out yet!!!
The i705 will be mildly successful. Don't look for it to be a panacea for Palm, but don't look for it to kill the company, either. RE: My Prediction...
Flop. I agree. I use a VisorPrism with a VisorPhone and would not go back to a non-color machine. I would stay where I am or swap OS's before I give up color if Palm(or others) can't or won't deliver. I'm wondering if the TREO is that much of a success when it comes out, initially, it's going to be a non-color device as well.
I see nothing new here. The pricing reduction is evolutionary, not revolutionary. Given the amount of bandwidth that voice requires as opposed to Data-Only, I would have expected "much" lower negotiated data-only rates at this point with the carriers. I see $10-20 a month being more reasonable for a device like this. But without color, it still won't amount to much. I had a Palm VII(2mb) and VIIx(8mn). Nice devices, but I spent more time looking for the Query apps to get what I wanted. I would NOT consider this device as an option, knowing what I know today. With the VisorPhone, I just dial-up ($20 with Earthlink) and browse to any location. It's allot slower than the query apps, but then again, I can run Query apps on the VisorPhone too (just install Palms Internet Connect Kit on it). Once the Palm MIK is installed, Query Apps can be used as long as you want (other than the connect time with your cell provider/ISP). Also, since many Cell providers (i.e. VoiceStream) offer 1000+ weekend min., you can use your VisorPhone without too much worries on the weekend and conservatively during weekdays. Boy, did I get off the subject... RE: My Prediction...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:20:27 PM #
All of you guys complaining about color on the i705 are stupid. Do know you how slow the wireless connection would be if everything was in color? Right now the Cingular service permits data to be transfered at about 9 kb/s. Can you imagine how slow it would be with color? Until we switch over to the new wireless standard from Europe, the speed problem will always be there to prevent newer technology. Some of you need to think about whats more important on your wireless device. Would you currently want something that runs ten times as slow as some 56k connection? Hell no!!! Anyway, just my few cents worth.
RE: My Prediction...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:39:15 PM #
Perhaps there is a new web standard that addresses this, but it was my understanding that PQAs and PDA-based browsers simply download a standard webpage/graphic and convert it to a format that is "useful" on the PDA. In other words, nothing exists to convert, in real-time, a color graphic from a website to a B&W graphic for display on a PDA. If a web server has a color graphic on a page and your PDA requests that page to be displayed on your handheld, you're gonna get that color graphic. Right?
RE: My Prediction...
Quoted from Anonymous above:
"All of you guys complaining about color on the i705 are stupid." Obviously, you still use a B&W device and have never heard of Blazer. Blazer uses a proxy server that actually "fetches" the webpages you request. It handles the conversion of the image from it's original files size down to a "PDA Friendly" size. In comparison, a 10k image may be 400 bytes when viewed within Blazer. This allows it to operate much more quickly that you would expect. Also, as an option, you can configure Blazer to receive Plain Text, B&W, Greyscale(4/16), Color (256) or Color (16-Bit). YOU have the option over your browsing experience. YOU DON'T HAVE THIS ON PALM.NET. So, before you call people stupid, you might want to know what you are talking about ;) RE: My Prediction...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:25:17 PM #
There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in this thread where some people think this device requires you to use PQAs and/or Palm.net for access like the Palm VII did. That is not true with the 705. It provides you with a standard internet connection, and you can use the other various browsers available with it.
RE: My Prediction...
"Also, as an option, you can configure Blazer to receive Plain Text, B&W, Greyscale(4/16), Color (256) or Color (16-Bit). YOU have the option over your browsing experience. YOU DON'T HAVE THIS ON PALM.NET.
Erm ... In WCA 4 built into PalmOS 4 devices you do have this option, no images, fastest (bw), Standard and Best Quality (16bit), and PalmNet IS a proxy service. Blazer even reads some of the same special HTML tags as PQA's use. Sadly WCA isnt such a great browsing experience as Blazer, due to a distinct lack of bookmarks. Poplet solves this problem. As for HTML rendering WCA is a featured as Blazer, although I prefer Blazer as it works with high res assist. RE: My Prediction...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:11:46 PM #
Being in Europe, I have been playing with a Treo (lucky me) and it is very good. Blazer is unbelievably fast considering the slow data rate. Being a phone and an email terminal means that you only have to carry one device around with you, whereas the i705 will only do email so users will have to carry their phone as well. So it will bust, I'm afraid.
That's it...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:45:46 PM #
Here is some things to keep in mind...
Wireless devices from any company does nothing for those who are not covered by the supporting carrier. As above this device is really behind - perhaps 8 months ago it would be acceptable - even though I am not able to use these types of wireless packages where I live. I am an M505 owner until I find a buyer for my 505, modem and keyboard. I have had it. I was looking at the new 615c - even that I am beginning to question. I have spent many years with palm, but I think I am prepared to swithc to a PPC for its ease of use with outlook and some of the other office products - its always some workaround with palm software to get compatibility with my Office programs. don't get me wrong - once you figure it out it works ok, but it all the time I spend fiddling with workarounds I would prefer to loose a bit of the functionality. For example, with a dial up modem I can sync directly to my corporate email service...with palm os I have to use multimail and then use a bunch of plugins to look at documents etc. I really like the simplicity of the palm, but add in video and mp3 playback,presenter to go third party products, vcs, gps, you name it, its beginning to look pretty tempting. This may not seem to relate to this rumour, but it does - more subpar products from palm - thats the connection. RE: That's it...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:57:54 PM #
Well, you have to remember that PocketPC is made by Microsoft so of course its going to sync with Outlook and read office docs. Its just bloated like every piece of Microsoft software. I don't think I need to go into all the reasons why Microsoft is a horrible company.
RE: That's it...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:59:42 PM #
That too is an opinion.
However, bloated or not - it works. Ease of integration is the key here. RE: That's it...
Also, from what I've heard, Pocket Word and Pocket Excel isn't all that great. You will lose any formatting of the documents if you edit them on the PPC.
That reason alone would prevent me from wanting to use a PPC. RE: That's it...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:12:34 PM #
Are there similar Wars on the PPC world like the palm world? is it more peaceful up therE?
graph RE: That's it...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:04:11 PM #
So... How much for the 505 and stuff, I won't go near a PPC...
RE: That's it...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 8:46:48 AM #
if you are interested in purchasing - leave your email and I will get in touch with you.
RE: That's it...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 9:39:16 PM #
I went to Office Depot the other day to look at an HP Jornada. Beautiful-looking device. It was pretty funny though, first time I thought I'd actually consider looking at one of these devices. I go to tap the Media player, see a familiar blue screen that had some jibberish in the upper-left, then it rebooted. I quickly lost interest in the PPC. I see it's stability is on a par next to Win9x... I guess it's the PalmOS for me for sometime.
Not compelling... Time for Plan 9I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 12:52:49 PM #
If this is going to save PALM, management had better start implementing Plan 9.
This device is expensive, not compelling, and nothing more than an incremental upgrade to the Palm VII. And truthfully, how many people actually used the Palm VII for email and surfing? Not many. Yes, I know some vociferous, indignant Palm VII user will respond, but please hold back your replies. Please. Also, anyone else think that OS 5 is going to be disappointing? I'm afraid that late in the year, we're going to see nothing more than beefed up ARM-based OS 5 Palms that cost more and run the address book and phone list a heck of a lot faster with nothing else to add. If this is the "Zen of Palm", I'm about ready to jump off this sinking ship. Thank god for Sony. If it weren't for Sony we'd have Laurel and Hardy (Laurel = Palm, Hardy = Handspring). RE: Not compelling... Time for Plan 9
Ed Wood, Jr. never intended to call it "Plan 9..." -- it was "Graverobbers from Outer Space." Should they be called in?
RE: Not compelling... Time for Plan 9I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:36:25 PM #
Yes, it's time to call Ed Wood and Vampirella to save the day at the B horror movie called PALM.
RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:39:52 PM #
BOOOOOOOOOOORING....
Come on, look at Nokia 9210 communicator. It is zillion times better and with color. If this is what palm has to offer then it better dig deeper in research to find something wireless and better than CLIE. my 5 cents......oops 2 cents (sorry, fell asleep) RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:59:57 PM #
if the nokia communicator ever starts shipping in the US it will cost over $600 and I doubt the wireless rates will be much better.
The BrickI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:02:31 PM #
You mean the same Communicator everyone calles "The Brick"? Its twice as big as the i705, weighs twice as much and even costs twice as much!! 800 freaking US dollars. What a total brick!!
BUNDLING SERVICES IS THE KEYI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:03:10 PM #
Nokia will get a sweet deal from AT&T and Voicestream and they will BUNDLE voice and data together!!! I pay $150/month voice and they give me the Nokia data for a few more bucks. Also, the Nokia will be SUBSIDIZED!
BUNDLING SERVICES IS THE KEY TO LOW COST!!! VOICE + DATA!!!! RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:11:09 PM #
Yes, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that your precious Nokia costs $800 friggin' dollars and is one of the ugliest pieces of "personal technology" ever.
"Smaller is better..." RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:22:23 PM #
Nokia 9210 might look ugly for you, but for most of the rest of the population on earth thinks it looks pretty cool.
Quite a good review on the communicator.....I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:22:32 PM #
The only review I could find is quite favorable
http://www.wap.com/share/osas/cache/artid550908.html I heard it is selling well in Europe too. It is also a symbol of status. Why can't Palm make something elegant and make everyone want to own it? RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:17:24 PM #
Seconded. Also sell thru is not good in Europe. Nokia sold a lot of units into distribution (as reported by Canalys - or Nokalys as they're known), but they have not sold through. Operators report low connection rates.
Have you tried using one? Mine crashed OUT OF THE BOX, and had to be hard reset. It's slow and runs out of memory VERY often. RE: YAWN
PPC makers and now Nokia STUBBORNLY refuse to understand that functionality menas NOTHING in a portable device if the device is not PORTABLE. If you walk around all day thinking "there's a brick in my pcoket, there's a brick in my pocket" you will not be carrying when the novelty wears off.
COMMON SENSE!! RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:56:22 PM #
Hmmm... Looks like we want:
(1) dual slots (CF and SD minimum), Did I forget anything else? Oh, and make sure that the whole thing fits in a package no larger than 2x3x0.5-in, including batteries. I don't want more than one device in my pocket or belt. Make the initial cost of buying these devices at USD 150.00, Fedex overnight shipping included. And if you signup with your local wireless provider, the unit is free with complementary annual, fully-hardware/software compatible upgrades. Get what works... 'nuf said. My USD 0.05. RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:52:57 PM #
That is EXACTLY what I want! Excellent synopsis. I would even take 3 or 4 of those bullet points!
RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:24:05 PM #
"...something wireless and better than a Clie", sounds like you're talking about my HandEra 330 and it's symbol 802.11b card (or it's pocket spider CDPD card).
RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:25:55 PM #
Actually, I wouldn't think that this checklist is all that unreasonable, given enough time. Perhaps we should check back in 5 years to see if the market has anything like this. Handera already has point 1 (CF/SD) and 1/4 of point 8 (voice recording mono WAV), and 1/8 of point 6 (240x320 4-bit mono). Sorry, but I don't want 2x3x.5. That's TOO small. I don't want a Rex, thanks.
Remember the Newton?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:59:17 PM #
A coworker was poking around some boxes today and discovered a Newton still in the box. It was HUGE! So little memory. This one was made in '93. I held it next to my 505 and was amazed at the progress made in 8 years. I suppose in 8 more years we'll have the device mentioned above. (Then we'll be complaining about something else.)
RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 9:03:05 PM #
-----
A coworker was poking around some boxes today and discovered a Newton still in the box. It was HUGE! So little memory. This one was made in '93. I held it next to my 505 and was amazed at the progress made in 8 years. I suppose in 8 more years we'll have the device mentioned above. (Then we'll be complaining about something else.) ----- Yes, it was huge, but there was nothing else like it back in '93 either. I had the Newton Messagepad 2100 (circa 1997) with a 10Mb memory card and an X-Jack 14.4kbps modem in PCMCIA format. This was the state of the art and my engineering colleagues were envious. A little off-topic here, but if you haven't integrated the Messagepad 2100 into your life, you'll discover that some of its functionality is still beyond what the Pocket PC or the Palm OS can do. Its GUI was literally ideal. On some nights, I still peruse the alleyways of the eBay streets to see how much a 2100 will run me these days :) RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 9:13:56 PM #
-----
Actually, I wouldn't think that this checklist is all that unreasonable, given enough time. Perhaps we should check back in 5 years to see if the market has anything like this. Handera already has point 1 (CF/SD) and 1/4 of point 8 (voice recording mono WAV), and 1/8 of point 6 (240x320 4-bit mono). Sorry, but I don't want 2x3x.5. That's TOO small. I don't want a Rex, thanks. ----- ----- From a previous post: Yes, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that your precious Nokia costs $800 friggin' dollars and is one of the ugliest pieces of "personal technology" ever. "Smaller is better..." ----- That's really the point, "...given enough time." I can't even imagine what the PDA would be like in 5 years. Heck, 4 years ago my Newton Messagepad 2100 was state-of-the-art. It wasn't small, but it was still state-of-the-art. And as far as size is concerned, that physical parameter will never please everyone. Let's face it. We're not accustomed to seeing cell phone 'bricks'. They're just, well, too big to fit into our pockets. Likewise, we really can't use our PDA's effectively if the screen is as small as today's cell phone screens. We have to squint and contort our faces to get any use out of the darn things. And nevermind entering data using a stylus. That'll take up the entire screen! So there's really a compromise in the physical size of a PDA and phone combination. Some people take the cell phone side, and others take the PDA side; a no win situation. For me, I have the Platinum/Visorphone combination. Sure it's big for a cell phone and the cell phone people will make me the laughing stock of the neighborhood; however, when I tell what I can do with the combination, the laughing abruptly stops and suddenly turns to envy. Here's where the PDA people reign kings. The size is just large enough to comfortably work with, yet versatile enough to even make mundane calls...and access email, surf the web, read my newsgroups, etc. Just my USD 0.50. RE: YAWNI.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 8:25:57 AM #
The 9210 is not selling that well in Europe. Most people who buy them , but them to replace their old communicators. Just about everyone thinks they are bloody enormous and expensive except for the people who *have* to have a mobile and pda (with keyboard!) combined in one. Also, the phone part is very ugly (too tiny screen) and it has been having quite a lot of problems (bugs, but that's no surprise with Nokia).
I'll take my seperate phone and pda over the 9210 anyday (still allows me to browse, email, etc). 8MB?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/20/2002 4:43:00 AM #
I think it is rather disappointing that Palm couldn't at least put 16MB of memory in this. That should be the minimum for the higher level handhelds and I don't think that is an unreasonable request considering Handspring has some models with that out already. A faster processor wouldn't hurt either.
Almost exactly as I predicted
This is almost exactly as I predicted it would be.
* I was hopeful (but doubting) that they would be smart enough to reduce their monthly costs which, IMO, are the most prohibitive aspects of attracting non-business users. * We all already knew that it would offer some sort of always-on instant email notification, so no prediction there, but I'm stating this because this is, IMO, the most prohibitive factor for business users. * I expected (but hoped otherwise) that there would be no color, high-res, or integrated bluetooth (I'm most sorry about the lack of color). * I didn't know about product price but predicted that it would be high. IMO, it is too high to attract non-business users. In short, as I expected, this is a device which will be considered a disappointment from an average consumer perspective because the product is expensive, monthly costs are still expensive, it's not color (let along high-res). That said, I think this has the potential to be very successful for Palm. "Huh?", you say. Well, I'm no expert on how Blackberry is doing financially, but if they are (which is what most people claim), this will compete *very* well against that device for the following reasons: Ed, one comment. According to Palm's site, their unlimited usage plan is currently $45, not $50. What would I like to see them add/change? Lower cost and a color model. The B&W version should cost $350, and the color model $450. Remember, they make their money back from you on the monthly service. I'd also like to see unlimited usage down to $30 or lower, but with RIM as their only true competitor now and their primary focus being on business users, don't hold your breath. Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Actually, I'll add a new prediction. Within a very short time, there will be some sort of mail-in rebate to try to attract some non-business customers.
Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predictedI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:13:49 PM #
When you look beneath the surface of RIMM's financials you might be suprised. For all the hoopla, you would think there were millions of customers, but the truth is that there are not that many more subscribers than there are for the Palm VII service.
RIMM * Last Quarter's Revenue: $70.9 million * Same Quarter One Year Ago Revenue: $80.1 million Cash position Market Cap Both PALM and HAND have greatly increased their market valuations the past 3 months. There was a time last Fall when RIMM was worth as much as PALM and HAND combined! I guess we will all have to wait and see how much the TREO and i705 will contribute to HAND's and PALM's bottom line this year. I suspect a runaway success would be something in the magnitude of 150,000 units/ wireless subscriptions sold. The question is how much average profit per unit can each generate especially given their past experiences with sales forecasting and inventory management. Let's keep our figers crossed and hope the wireless voice/data market lifts both companies substanially! RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
A couple additions/corrections to my post:
* You can get a Blackberry 950 from Buy.com for about $370 (I believe list price is $400). The bottom line is the same. The monthly costs are cheaper than Blackberry's. The device is priced a bit higher but offers more functionality. The main downside as compared to the Blackberry, IMO, is the thumbboard. Even if Palm offers a thumbboard of it's own, it likely won't work as well as the Blackberry's due to the Blackberry's "length-wise" layout, making for more comfortable typing. Still, if this market is, indeed, viable, it looks to compare favorably. Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
I can't stop myself. OK, one more comment. I just checked Aether Systems' web site (they offer $40/month wireless email service for the Blackberry). Wireless internet service costs an additional $15/month. So, again, this device looks good from that perspective.
Still, for consumer users who want wireless internet as cheap as possible, the best bang-for-the-buck service is $25/month from Verizon Wireless for CPDP service. Modems can be bought for as little as $50 (on clearance) from Handango for the Minstrel modems for V series or Handspring Visors. You can also buy the wireless PCMCIA card (for the iPaq) directly from Verizon Wireless for $100 (PCMCIA sleeve not included). Don't know how coverage compares and it's not always-on. Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predictedI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:28:48 PM #
Nothing but Trolls........If you Trolls hate Palm so much.......why are you here......
RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Huh? None of these comments come across as "troll-like", IMO.
Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
BTW, thanks for the info on RIM (assuming it's accurate). However, it seems to me that the wireless service is offered by Aether Systems, not RIM. In which case, it would seem to me that RIM is only making money on the handhelds, not the service. If this is true, Palm's offering should still be sound. They can afford (maybe) to lose money on the devices if they make up for it in the monthly service costs.
Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predictedI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:52:51 PM #
This all depends on what % revenue split PALM/HAND/RIMM was able to negotiate with their respective wireless carrier partners. I listed the number of subscribers because there is substantial churn-- meaning many customers buy the device but then cancel the service afterwords. Of course the device makers generate revenue from the sale of their devices, but the more interesting data point to gauge future business is at what rate are subscribers increasing vs. cancelling service. Right now RIMM is enjoying about a 10% quarterly net subscription increase.
RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Scott, you are about to say all I want to say, and I may be a little bit too late. :-)
But let me add something more here. The i-705 is not for us, who always post on PIC. :-) It's primarily for enterprises which runs wireless e-business software that needs wireless data synchronization. Do we know what e-business software will i-705 bundle with? Huh Huh, you bet. Who will be addressing a conference note in Palmsource in Feb? The company seems to begin with a letter S. Hmm... Do enterprises complain about the Blackberrys are B/W? Are do enterprises complain about B/W for other handhelds? I think only us, once again, who have time to post on PIC, cares about color as much as their life. Enterprises will put their focus on cost/productivity issues, and useability. Too bad that you or I cannot afford the unlimited plan, but Palm never intends to attract you for the unlimited plan at first. If you just want Internet access, you can probably use a cell-phone and use an ISP. But will enterprises care whether their employees and go to thestreet.com and see the bald head there? Enterprises want instant, real-time data synchronization for its deploy of e-business software. You can buy your PDAs for entertainment, for songs or what movies if you dare. But you are not the enterprises. For those who troll about everthing on Palm and yet like to surf PIC, it is okay to express your anger but it just makes you more trollian. It won't hurt Palm sales and help PPC or RIM's sales in the long run. Thank you. RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
Interesting. Just checked Cingular's web site. The cost for their unlimited Blackberry usage is $60. This includes the internet access (which I previously mentioned Aether Systems charges $15 extra for). So, basically, Palm offers the same coverage and "must-have" feature of the Blackberry (instant email) in the same Cingular coverage areas for $35/month unlimited vs $60/month.
While the people here (and probably most price-conscious consumers) may be largely unimpressed, this has to have RIM worried. Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
peter, exactly. I, myself, would like this to be color and cheaper. But, as you say, Palm is really gearing up to give the enterprise what they think they want. I posted this elsewhere but it bears repeating...
MS is betting that they can sell their devices to the enterprise based on the fact that they have higher-res screens, more processing power, can be developed for using VB.NET, and run "standard" Office type products. Wireless is just now being added, but it will add considerable size to a device that is already "considerably sized." Palm is betting that the enterprise will be more impressed with their lower-cost, smaller, longer-battery life, more fully integrated wireless. They're hoping that they can live with using "non-standard" development tools and "Office" products which don't carry the Microsoft name. Basically, MS is coming from the angle of a pocket-sized PC (aka laptop replacement), whereas Palm will be coming from the angle of combining a Blackberry with a Palm. Who will win? I think they both will to some degree. There are some business applications which will require the processing power, high-res screens, and VB.NET-leverage that only the PPC can offer. But I think this will be a small percentage. I believe that most businesses (who are even deploying these things in large numbers at all) will be more attracted to a small Blackberry/Palm device. Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predictedI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:38:03 PM #
OK, I guess this thread is a stream-of-conscious monologue by dear Scott.
RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
From my perspective, RIM will be an immediate loser since Palm has a product that is directly competitor for the blackberries, yet Palm's monthly rate and hardware price are similar to what RIM is offering right now.
RIM will suffer a lot because Palm provides what the blackberries provides(instant email, etc.) and add what Palm had already provided (PIM, Programs, etc.), and yet selling at a similar price. If anyone remember the interview from David Nagel, he already hinted/said that Palm is better to have alliance with e-business/service provider and provide e-business solution together, instead of selling only hardware or software. (That is the key of success here, which IBM had been doing for years. They do not only provide software or hardware alone.) If you just turn back to take a look, no PPCs right now has the ability to connect to the Internet right out of the factory, and forget about instant e-mail. No e-business alliance with Compaq and Hewlett Packard, and forget Asus or Casio. If enterprises want to spend $499 for each unit, they will not want their employees only to edit word docs, listen to mp3s and watch animated gifs(movies) on their PDAs. They want something that can save money/time for their corporations, or at least improve the quality/control of manufacturing on the fields. Any employees have access to a PC right now. They can basically do whatever PPCs has claimed what they can do. The fact is that you cannot carry PC with you and so does your PPC. It is only when Nasdaq is at 5000 so corporations can waste their money on upgrading their Windows from 98 to 2000, but not right now. Neither do enterprises like to spend $600 for a gadget. The device has to WORTH $600. M$ can still continue to spend their marketing money on hype troll hype. You can hire a bunch of editors to bash Palms. But please tell us the exact NUMBER of handhelds running on only PPC 2002 has sold last quarter. Yes, the exact number, not the revenue, the % increase or any BS statistics or just OPINIONS. Only FACTs are welcome. Thank you. For those who trolled, your boss, if he ever pays you, is running out of steam right now. Their only hope is left only on the hands of .NET. RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
I wonder why (some) people here assume the i705 was a competitive device vs. the RIM Blackberry?
a) corporates don't switch over to a different supplier all of a sudden b) who said RIM couldn't lower the subscription plan prices? c) what's the point in focusing on a competing with RIM, whereas people are (were!) waiting for innovative devices instead? a) You talk as though all corporations that would want a Blackberry-type device have already purchased them. Rest assured, the market isn't saturated yet. Scott RE: Almost exactly as I predicted
It's absurd that PPCs always beat their drums telling all of us all Palms are only for PIM. At least, Palm's new i705 is absolutely the best corporate device out there in the market. It has the following functions:
1)always-on email I don't care whether your PDA is 1Ghz or not, but no PPCs have the capability of connecting to the Internet after leaving the office. $35 per month on a year subscription is absolutely affordable and does worths these $35. These provides real WIRELESS data synchronization and always-on email. Let's also talk a bit about Treo. First, you have to sign a contract to get the device price under $400. If not, it will be $539. Yes, it includes the voice function but then what? 1) GPRS deploy remains a question in the U.S. this year (every network provider claims they have this and will have that SOON) 2) The cost of GPRS service remains a bigger question because everyone neglects the cost for that. If you are going to compare prices with Europe, please add 30% premium over that because GSM is not the major mobile network standard here. Given the limitation of GPRS network deployment in 2002, you could expect a cost that is outrageous, just like what Palm VII charged everyone. If you dare to say $35 per month is expensive for unlimited access for i705, then it will cost you your life to use GPRS this year. 3) Finally, everyone forgets that Handspring makes great ideas but not good products. The visorphone is a good idea, but did not attract many audience because it is too expensive and bulky (as a phone) for general consumers. Hopefully, they will not flop big time. By the way, SpringBoard is a good idea but Handspring never executes well. Too much more to say, but just let it end here.
How does IM work?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:32:35 PM #
I thought an open TCP/IP connection was required to do IM. For example, I can't IM on a Palm VII right? If this is the same network how does it work?
RE: How does IM work?
I think there's an app available which provides pseudo-IM for the Palm VII. I'd imagine that this new "always-on" functionality of the i705 makes this sort of thing easier and better integrated.
Scott RE: How does IM work?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:46:27 PM #
Does this mean telnet clients will work on the i705 too? Could be a useful tool for network/sys admins. Get an e-mail or IM alert that some web server or web application is down, telnet to the machine and re-start the app or reboot the machine without even getting up from dinner. Or something like PalmVNC would work too.
RE: How does IM work?
Yes, 1 week later you'll be hacked through telnet :). SSH is what I want, not telnet. All an admin needs is something that'll give him his email, let him go online normally, to check to see if things are up, and be fully tcp/ip. That way I could use mocha ssh client.
Also what I need is blazer to start supporting php and asp. RE: How does IM work?
I wrote a "semi-instant" messenger app for the Palm VII last year -- it won one of the PalmHack awards at PalmSource 2000, but it never got widely used since it relied on servers run by the now-dead company for which I worked.
It worked like an IRC window, with one channel that everyone shared. On the Palm VII, it had a neat property -- when you flipped up the antenna, it would go check for new messages. I called it "Star Trek mode", since it reminded me of the communicators in the original series. Lots of people at PalmSource used it to communicate during the show, chatting about the sessions and arranging parties. You didn't get realtime chat notifications, but whenever you wanted to check the log, you'd get all the updates. With this new i705, you'd actually be able to route message out to the devices when they get posted, rather than waiting on the device to pull them down. That makes the conversation seem a lot more instant -- you don't notice the device transferring data when you're not using it, but when you do use it, its all there with no obvious waiting.
Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:30:35 PM #
It's time you all returned to the real world. There is no colour screen on the i705 because it isn't practical. Did you think Palm just *forgot* it? Is someone down at Palm reading this hitting himself on the forehead saying "Hey yeah, we SHOULD have made it color! Why didn't I think of that?" It has no colour screen because it would have given it a battery life of about 2 hours. Colour draws a lot of current. So does wireless access. Together, you have something that needs a battery the size of a deck of cards to get decent life. Would you really want a handheld you have to recharge at noon in order for it to last until the end of the day? NO. Have you seen the Nokia Brick available over here in Europe? It's both wireless and has a colour screen. It's about 4 TIMES the size of the i705. I think it weighs close to a kilogram and costs US$800. If Palm had put that out, you'd be screaming your fool heads off.
The i705 is a good compromise between size and battery life. Colour wasn't a possibility. I just hope there's a version I can use over here. RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:43:22 PM #
If it is not better than the Nokia brick then it is not better at all. If Nokia is a BMW I don't want a honda that saves gas (has a better mileage). I want something that's better. Ericsson's T68 has a color screen too and its not a brick.
Go on par with that. RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:03:36 PM #
And exactly how big is the T68's screen? 1"x1.5" is the standard format for their phones. The real battery killer is the backlight most color screens require.
Add 4 times the screen real estate, much longer use times on the backlight (minutes at a time instead of seconds), an SD reader, and the fact that the space for a battery is volumetricly smaller than the T68 and I just birdied your par. RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:05:57 PM #
This is 2002 and damn it, I want COLOR!!! Greyscale is SO 90's!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely no excuse...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:11:14 PM #
OK, so T68 has a smaller screen. But try CLIE 760 with wireless. How big is that going to be? In terms of real estate they could take out the MP3 chip and put in whatever is need for wireless. Take half of MS out (they are coming out with MS half the size) and I bet you can squeeze that piece of hardware in. Battery drain: down to T615c or halved. Do I care? No. I eagled.
FYI part of why Nokia's phone is a brick is because of the keyboard. Try to squeeze it down and you will see how impractical that can be (It is at least a three year old design already)especially for Europeans with big hands. So just stop this crap about not having color and wireless. And I predict that Sony will come with one this year but in PHS (Japan's own system) RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:13:34 PM #
Well, you're either going to have to pay $800 for a god-awful ugly Nokia, or you'll have to wait until it's feasible...not possible, FEASIBLE.
RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:16:19 PM #
no - the COLOR TREO is coming in 2002!!!!!
RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:33:08 PM #
>> I think it weighs close to a kilogram and costs US$800. If Palm had put that out, you'd be screaming your fool heads off.
Preach the gospel!! Treo is completely differentLarryGarfield @ 1/18/2002 6:33:57 PM #
Regarding the comment about the Treo, the Treo is completely irrelevant to the i705. The i705 is a wirelessly enabled PDA/Pager. The Treo is a cell phone, not a PDA. Let me repeat that:
*The Treo is a cell phone, not a PDA!* Has anyone else actually held a Treo? The screen on it makes the m100 look wide and expansive. It's a cell phone that happens to run PalmOS to make the learning curve easier. It is NOT A PDA. It just runs a PDA OS because the designers were used to it, and already had a license for it. Handspring wants out of the PDA market (see previous story about the Springboard and Visor), because they're a consumer-space company. Sony is out to rip every other consumer PDA company appart, in as bloodly a fashion as possible. Handspring knows they can't compete with the 3 headed dragon that is Sony, so they're getting out of the line of fire while the still have money to do so. The i705 is an entirely different animal. Palm created the wireless PDA/super-pager market with the Palm VII. Then they saw RIM, and said "hey, if we make one of those with PalmOS, that will be the best of both worlds!" And so they went and did exactly that. Is it evolutionary rather than revolutionary? Um, duh. You want a revolution every other week, try France in the 1790s. Not a pretty sight. Palm has always been about evolutionary upgrades to incrementally improve the product line over time. They add one feature at a time and try to make sure that they get that feature damn right, and most of the time they succeed. That was Jeff Hawkin's original philosophy, and at least that much has stayed with Palm even in his absence. You want revolutionary, wait for OS 5. Until then, all you will see from any Palm company is evolution, not revolution. Revolution leaves bloody corpses lying across baracades. Evolution takes longer, but everyone is better off in the end. RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:17:52 PM #
> You want revolutionary, wait for OS 5.
So? Where's the 'revolution' in having an ARM chip device? The others (Casio, HP, Toshiba, Compaq, Psion..)already have that for quite some time. > Until then,all you will see from any Palm company Interesting deductions, but based on a false assumption , based on a metaphor only. RE: *The Treo is a cell phone, not a PDA!* - WRONG!!!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:50:37 PM #
LarryG,
Yes, I HAVE held a Treo and the screen is not smaller than an M100. It just appears smaller because while its overall size is smaller than the M100, the amount of extra plastic surrounding the screen on the Treo is less than the M100, so the Treo screen appears smaller. While I don't have the exact measurements on both screens, side-by-side comparison of the two models the screens do physically appear to be the same size. And "*The Treo is a cell phone, not a PDA!*" is pure NONSENSE!!! Statements like this Larry only show how ignorant you really are. Handspring itself says:
What do you suppose a "Palm OS® organizer" is? A PDA perhaps? You'd think Handspring would know its own product wouldn't you? RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 6:34:05 AM #
The comment on battery life is way off base. Real experiences with the Sony(s), m505, and Samsung are not as fatalistic as the original message suggests.
Palm is way off on this one... too little, too late. RE: Why there is no colourI.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 8:31:13 AM #
"So? Where's the 'revolution' in having an ARM chip device? The others (Casio, HP, Toshiba, Compaq, Psion..)already have that for quite some time.
Palm will eventually arrive at the line the others have passed 2 years ago." That's what you think. Others have passed that line and paid a huge price for it; form factor, battery life, stability (well, that's the os I guess). Palm os will be able to use the power of such processors much better and as such have more power when it comes to that. More importantly for me, they won't be a brick like the regular PPC, and might still have a decent battery life that lasts more than a day.
This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 1:57:24 PM #
This i705 is good for a Palm VIIx who likes the Palm.net service but wants to upgrade their device.
The i705 will be no more as popular as was the Palm VII. Hence, no way will this help Palm hit the critical mass it so desperately needs. RE: Treo killer...?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:14:48 PM #
How can you kill a product that isn't even out yet? I wouldn't count on any dominance for Treo before it's even released. 2 good reviews only get you so far.
As for RIMM, check out an earlier thread related to this story to see what the real story is here. Everyone needs to simply CALM DOWN. This product is not a make-or-break item for Palm. It doesn't equate with Sony's upcoming offering, or even PPC 2002. It's intended to be an interim upgrade to the VII, not the uber-PDA you dream of. It might be a competitor of Treo(partially), but as I pointed out, TREO ISN'T EVEN HERE YET!!!!! RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:22:31 PM #
Neither is the i705 here yet.
RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:26:36 PM #
Palm's only chance to survive is to use Arthur Anderson as their Accountants.
RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:35:14 PM #
>> Palm's only chance to survive is to use Arthur Anderson as their Accountants.
ROTFL!! RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:39:32 PM #
Sorry, but the original poster very wrong in saying this is just an upgrade for Palm VII owners. This device offers far better wireless service (with a real Internet connection and always on to receive messages) for a better price than what was available for the VII. I had zero interest in Palm.net and PQAs. This service is completely different, and far more than just some insignificant upgrade to the VII.
RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
Ok, as a person who constantly uses a blackberry, let me chim in for a sec.
Blackberrys are a very niche market, and because of this, there are few apps for it. So if you want to dump your palm, which supports 10,000+ apps and go for a blackberry which supports maybe 1000, be my guest. And while you're at it, shoot yourself in the foot first. Second, browsing the net on the blackberry, isn't exactly a good time. Go.America's client is weak, slow, and has horrible support. So browsing the web is basically dead on it. My company wrote its own browser because it was so bad. Sadly they refuse to rls it or even opensource it. 2. You have a good time expanding the blackberry. Once you find out how, we'll all praise and call your name. Expansion slot:0 Blackberry is really made just for email, and it does it well. But you are really limited to email. Like I said, you can put more apps in, you can write your own. But don't expect it to be a palm. This might find a niche in the corp field because of the app support and the ease of finding dev tools. But its not going to be a Treo killer because it doesn't have voice. If anything Treo would kill the i705 as no company wants to support two devices for one person, aka a pda and a cell phone. They are doing this already with the current palms or the blackberrys. I really don't see this doing that well. Its niche is smaller than the blackberry. You got the corp field, who is a. using a device (blackberry) for this functionality already. b. can't afford to switch to a new one unless there is a clear benefit or a savings. RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 6:33:34 PM #
exactly - dont bitch about the price of the Treo because you are getting TWO DEVICES which mitigates cost.
RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
I think there's far more companies issuing pagers than there are issuing cell phones. In fact, unless you're in sales or are one of the owners in your company, I doubt you're being issued a cell phone. As such, I think an always-on device like the i705 is going to be a lot more attractive than the Treo.
Every company that would get a Blackberry already got them so they aren't going to reissue these things, huh? OK. The Blackberry market is still expanding. This cuts into that. Scott RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 7:18:24 PM #
not at $35 per month. I can get a good cell phone plan for that cost. pager service only costs 5 bucks/month or less and its free with cell SMS. This i705 is too expensive.
RE: This AIN'T no RIMM or Treo killer...
Exactly. For you and most consumers, this probably won't make sense. For businesses, it does. They'll pay $35/month per person for unlimited email access. They won't pay $35/month for a limited amount of voice minutes which the person could go over on or use for non-work purposes.
Scott
Palm Sux... better sell your stock!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:20:45 PM #
Ummm 19.95unlimited and this thing would be a winner. Again Palm, you fail. Prediction... Palm is sold for peanuts to Sony this year! Better yet Sony buys Palm and Stupidspring as well. Treo... a joke, people had better realize data calls are not free, they go against your airtime with the carriers that will use the Treo. Unless you can afford a mega phone bill I would look elsewhere. Before all you "my Palm is my best friend people"start flaming me do you recall Omnisky?? Bust... RIM... going bust.... Richochet BIG bust.... Face it wireless is 3 years off to where it will be affordable. If 1people wont spend $50 for DSl why the heck would they spend $40 for wireless email. Someone please check Palm's offices and see if there is monkey running the helm. The people running Palm have taken the most successfull handheld company and run into the ground, not suprising since the same morons ran 3com into the ground too!! Ohh Palm and Hand**** so you thoink people are willing to spend another $400 on a handheld that does not offer any substantial improvement over the dated garbage you already make? You guys must think people are stupid!
I am wiping the dust of my Newton ;) **** Palm L RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:37:55 PM #
Sony will buy Palm? What an absolutely facinating theory that we have never heard proposed on this website before.
RE: Sony Sux... better sell your stock!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:38:36 PM #
Dear Sony Nut,
Sony has a wireless service, too. And what do you know, it charges $40 a month for unlimited wireless access, too. You might not have heard of MYLO because only low-end Sony models have a modem. There isn't one at all for the N or T series. And before you scream out that the S and N series use the same connector, the rest of the handhelds are different enough that the giant, ugly modem Sony offers that it can only connect to an S320 or S360. Check for yourself: Somehow I think it will be a while before Sony is even a little bit competetive with the i705 or the Treo. Huggs and kisses, RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:48:48 PM #
Why do you bother posting this garbage? Why didnt you keep your stupid thoughts to yourself. You must be 12 or something..You certainly act liek it.
RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:25:41 PM #
No I am not 12 but you write like a 12 year old (lieke??) retard, I bet you will be the first one to have 705i! Geek!
Hush, the adults are talking nowI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:53:17 PM #
So that's your whole response? Criticize him for mis-keying and call him a retard? Oh, you've over-whelmed us all with the logic of your arguments!
p.s. Admit it, you are 12 years old. RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 4:41:41 PM #
please don't insult 12 year olds like that.
Sony will not but palm because that brings down a list of legal situs on sony, however i wouldn't be suprised if palm was picked up by say IBM or Dell to compete with intel, MS, or compaq. I am how ever going to be dissapointed in palm if this is their idea of new and innovative. but then again palm has suprised me as of late by letting me down Noctrop_d@yahoo.com RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:33:31 PM #
What an entertaining thread! Everybody enjoys a good flame war every now and then. You can tell it's Friday.
RE: Palm Sux... better sell your stock!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:39:46 PM #
> p.s. Admit it, you are 12 years old.
Yes, I'm 11 years old and far more intelligent than you. So, take a hike. You must have been playing with your barbie doll at that age.
Cingular & the Palm VIII.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:36:00 PM #
Does the Palm VII currently use the Cingular Interactive wireless network?
RE: Cingular & the Palm VII
This is from an ancient Palm press release:
"While the BellSouth network is based on Mobitex technology from Ericsson, the core components of the Palm VII organizer and the Palm.Net system are built on standards that are completely network-independent, so future support for other wireless data standards is possible." It's basically the same network that Cingular uses for it's Blackberry coverage. RE: Cingular & the Palm VII
One of the companies that merged to form Cingular was BellSouth Wireless, so the i705 is using the exact same network that the Blackberries and the VIIs are using.
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
MS ''black ops''
All of the "anonymous" trolls who are actually being paid to post here by Microsoft, please raise your hand...
RE: MS ''black ops''I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:51:29 PM #
Yes - you can continue to delude yourself and blame all of Palm's problems on a conspiracy network of MSFT trolls. This is same as Steve Jobs "Reality Distortion Field".
RE: MS ''black ops''I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:41:44 PM #
Yes, I'm a paid mercenary for Scott McNealy.
I'm on a mission to bad mouth MicroShaft so bad that Sun Microsystems will win the day to become the monopolist that Scott has always dreamed about. I hear Scott forces his St. Bernard dog, Network, to whiz on a fire hydrant painted with the Microshaft logo every morning. It provides a lot of relief for him before he drives his Mercedes S-500 into work.
It's the software, ....!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 2:45:51 PM #
In spite of the nothing-new hardware, I'm excited about the functionality of this new device: always-on pushed email, instant messaging and a better browser; all in a small form factor.
The functionality seems like a big improvement over the Palm VII. I'm getting one! RE: It's the software, ....!
Finally, someone who sees the value in this.
It's not aimed at the multimedia crowd, people. Scott RE: It's the software, ....!I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:53:30 PM #
> It's not aimed at the multimedia crowd, people.
And neither is OS 5. RE: It's the software, ....!
"> It's not aimed at the multimedia crowd, people.
And neither is OS 5." Precisely. More good news. I must admit I was a bit worried that Palm might cave in to all of the tech "journalists" who thought they were going to go bankrupt if they didn't offer horrible quality compressed video on their PDAs. Scott
Thats it????? thats the "pssst pssst"?I.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:02:33 PM #
Ive known about the m700 ever since i started researching on the m505. Seriously,,is this the one???
Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sonyI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:14:44 PM #
Who the hell wants to pay separate Cellphone bill and wireless email bill..
isnt this too much i mean cmon...thats too much for an average user...just to "communicate"... I think treo will do better...but only if they have expansion. Im gonna be passing on both. graph RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
You're absolutely right. This isn't targetted at the average consumer, it's competing with the RIM market. If Palm, Inc. thinks that this *is* targetting the average consumer market, I think they are confused. To be sure, some power-users who want instant email and such will justify paying the extra cost. I might actually be one of them, except that I really do want color (not even so much for the color, per se, as much as for the improved readability).
One way I could justify it is if I changed my wireless phone plan to a much lower plan (since I could now use this device to communicate with people whom I might otherwise use my phone). I could easily save $15 there. Then, I'm just paying $20 more than I used to for the benefit of instant email, etc. Scott RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sonyI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:47:15 PM #
I'm with ya. I had Omnisky and dropped it after a year due to the cost. I realized after awhile that I really didn't need to look at my e-mail every 10 minutes. It's just not that critical.
It looks like this new Palm is geared solely towards the corporate user, and it appears Palm is trying to deploy this as a "Blackberry Killer". I'm not a corporate user, so this Palm does nothing for me. Even if I were an average corporate user, I'd be purchasing a Sony T615 or I'd wait for the color Treo before I bought this thing. JBH RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sonyI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 5:44:57 PM #
Good point on the total cost of ownership (TCO).
Frankly, if this is communication, I'd rather be incommunicado. I have a cell phone ($69), broadband ($50), Earthlink account for modem access ($20), and landline ($50). That's a cool $189 a month for communication. There is no way, I'm going to pay for email access by the kilobyte. No way. And most corporations are happy with the RIMM. I am. I have a small RIMM that's sized like a pager and I'm NOT going to trade it for an oversized i705. So, Palm is going to have a hard time convincing the enterprise let alone consumers that the i705 device and the crazy pricing is a compelling value. Good luck, Palm. You gonna need it. Glad I sold the stock for a tidy profit before it crashed. RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
Check your data. The Blackberry monthly rates are *higher*. Also, I expect that the i705 is going to turn out to be a lot smaller than you might think.
Scott RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes youI.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 10:29:24 AM #
I couldn't have said it better myself. Honestly, if Samsung can put voice and wireless together in a decent package, surely Palm could follow suit. It's one thing to be unable to innovate; it's another whole bowl of feces if you can't even copy.
As a road warrior, I'd love to be able to use one device on my Sprint network that can do voice/Palm/modem and still fit in my suit or pants pocket. I would be willing to pay a LOT for that sort of convenience. Let Palm go after the low hanging fruit like me, first. When prices drop and the technology gets better, they can go after the masses. RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
So why not just buy a Samsung? I have one myself and it's pretty small. Overall I like it, but it hasn't met my wireless desires. They didn't incorporate flash ROM (or, at least, don't seem willing to tell anyone), haven't cooperated with developers, and you have to "dial-in" to do any wireless stuff. Myself, I like the idea of always-on, but I don't think I could go back to B&W, mainly due to the lack of contrast in various lighting conditions.
BTW, based on several press releases Palm looks to be working on a GSM/GPRS solution. Still, GPRS is in it's infancy right now (and GSM coverage in general still stinks overall in the US). The Mobitex network is fairly established and the VIIx/i705 makes good use of it. Scott RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes youI.M. Anonymous @ 1/19/2002 12:39:26 PM #
Scott, I'm really tempted by the Samsung, but the color screen is sort of lacking (esp. in comparison to the Clie). The lack of USB is a bummer since I'm a Macophile (although I also have PC's), and the inability to add expansion cards isn't so good either.
The Samsung seems to be a cell phone with a Palm thrown in - it has a nice form factor, but I was hoping for a little more for my money. It definitely has everything a cell phone user would want. Maybe I'll just buy one for now and upgrade to something better next year. RE: Voice capability is the KEY everyone..that includes you sony
It's a very good phone and a good PDA. But it's certainly not a great PDA nor a perfect phone. Brightness/contrast is great. Color saturation is pretty poor. The thing I like the least is that it is 0S 3.5 and I've seen no signs that it can/will be upgradeable. As I've stated elsewhere in this thread, OS 4.x offers some small but significant improvements to web-clipping which would be pretty important in a smartphone, IMO.
Scott
RE: O Sony Where Art Thou?
Do a search on their site for MYLO. They offer a PCMCIA sled for their low-end series which offers CPDP service at $40/month unlimited.
Scott
RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBitI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:50:02 PM #
You're in for a disappointment. Sony's solution for wireless is much worse than this. You can only get a modem for the S series and the modem is about the size of Rhode Island.
If wireless is what you want, the ranking is: RE: If I don't get a m525 out of CeBitI.M. Anonymous @ 1/18/2002 3:54:09 PM #
Umm...Sony's (lack of) wireless options has nothing to do with the rumored m525. I believe the above poster just means that Palm is producing a lot of hype over what is just a glorified update to the VIIx, one that should've been released months ago. If Palm introduces this joke i705 along with an "m525" (i.e. 16MB Ram and 320x320 color, as the very minimum upgrades, to at least compete with Sony's offerings), then people will regain *some* faith in Palm's hardware division...
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$10/mo for 50K?! Is this a bad joke? (At $10/mo for 50K: ITABJ?)