Comments on: Palm Gains Worldwide Marketshare
Handspring continued its long tenure as the second largest handheld supplier, shipping 425 thousand units for an 11.1% share during the fourth quarter. This was a jump of 36% compared to the same quarter in 2000.
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RE: Palm plans updated PDAs and wireless devices
You do realize this ZDnet.uk article is entirely based on an article published here on PIC, don't you? It even says, "The photographs, which appear to be genuine, were later published along with a raft of specifications on the PDA hobbyist site Palm Infocenter. "
Here's the original article:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2864
-Ed
p.s. Please work a little harder at keeping on topic.
---
News Editor
RE: Palm plans updated PDAs and wireless devices
Hobbyist site? Ouch, talk about a petty swipe from the compeittion there.
Don't let them get to you, Ed. You're more professional than any of the self-claimed professional sites when it comes to Palm news.
RE: Palm plans updated PDAs and wireless devices
"a Pda hobbyist site???"
Screw the darn, dirty apes Ed, and dont let em get ya down!!
A PIC fan!!
George DaVall
Troll Bait
http://pdabuzz.com/#newsitem1011891450,6136,
I gloat in your general direction!!
RE: Troll Bait
Palm 46%
Compaq 19%
HP 12%
Handspring 6%
Enjoy this, Palm troll
RE: Troll Bait
I just picked up my T-615C. I love it!!!
RE: Troll Bait
RE: Troll Bait
You asked how the PPC trolls would find a spin out of this story. Well, its quite easy: IDC afaik only measured retail sales. And contrary to your opinion the business market isnt only a niche market but quickly growing and including these fugures will show a completely different picture as shown in other surveys.
Also, unit shipments are not always the best measurement method. PPCs are sold at much higher prices. I think its safe to assume, they make a lot more money from selling them. So financially, and in the end thats the only thing that counts, PPC makers might be much better off even with a significantly lower market share. Thats my spin. And no, I dont hold any grudge against Palm or Palm users :-)
RE: Troll Bait
Does not sound like the world is about to end for Palm, check the numbers, then check your head.
RE: Troll Bait
Who is the devil here? ^_^
margins vs market share, etc.
Market share will greatly influence the availabilty and price of software and peripherals in the near future. Those who have heard the "Pocket PC is gaining ground" idea are looking for hard evidence to support their investment in the platform.
Companies like ePocrates don't care how profitable the hardware is. They want to know that the market share for PPC supports a significant investment to develop for the platform. So far, apparently, they haven't seen that it is worthwhile.
Other companies, sensing that their Palm OS products will outsell their Pocket PC products 4 to 1, will ensure that they spread their development costs for PPC over fewer units, thus raising price.
So, it's not all about margin, just as it's not all about bathing. It's also about volume of water, frequency of laundry, and availability of air conditioning.
RE: Troll Bait
And to the comment that price per unit is more important than volume. I would be more than happy for Compaq to sell one PDA next year at a cost of $1 Billion. That won't stop the Palm Revolution. Or Palm market share. Or an other facet of the Palm OS juggernaut. It just means that there is just one (1) guy out there with his billion-dollar PPC thinking that he is better than every other PDA owner in the world.
I'd even visit his cage once a week to toss him a ripe banana! :-D
PPC punks....
NOT Retail Numbers
No, you didn't read the whole article. Here's the last paragraph again:
"These numbers aren't retail sales figures. This is the total number of handhelds shipped worldwide from manufacturers. "
---
News Editor
RE: Troll Bait
Consider this simplified example:
Palm sells 100 m100s at $100 apiece. They earn $10,000 in revenue off those. Assuming they net $50 per unit, they've got $5,000 profit.
Meanwhile, Compaq sells 50 iPaqs at $500 apiece. They earn $25,000 in revenue. Assuming they net $300 per unit, that's $15,000 profit.
On it's face, it looks like Compaq's kicked Palm's butt. BUT, Palm has twice the market share, which affects the long-term: Palm and Compaq release new models. Palm's builds on the simple UI of the m100 and adds color & expansion. Compaq's is basically an effort to fix all the #%!$@# problems in the previous unit, plus a couple of minor upgrades. The Palm model goes for $400, and Palm nets $300 off every unit. The Compaq goes for $600, and Compaq nets $400 off every unit. 80 of Palm's 100 original buyers decide to upgrade. Palm nets another $32,000. Compaq's original buyers don't see a reason to drop another $600, so only 20 of them go for the new iPaq. Compaq nets $8,000.
Over the long haul, Compaq would've earned profits of $23,000. Palm would've earned $37,000. This is why automakers, among others, develop low-end, mid-range, and high-end models. It's called the Quantity-Quality shift. It's also why Palm REALLY needs to put out a killer high-end model soon.
Either way, Market Share matters...
RE: Troll Bait
RE: Troll Bait
Retail Sales
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2880
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News Editor
RE: Troll Bait
Unit shipped 4Qt-01
-------------------
Palm 300.030 (-21,8%)
Compaq 124.362 (+143,8%)
HP 78.584 (+89,6%)
Handspring 40.500
Sony 29.510
RE: Troll Bait
RE: Troll Bait
Including France?
RE: Troll Bait
Another reason why companies would rather not develop for a microsoft platform is because if they're successful, Microsoft will develop a competing product at a cheaper price or include it in the OS. Netscape, WordPerfect, and Borland were destroyed by these methods.
RE: Troll Bait
RE: Troll Bait
Where are the Japanese Brands?
Something must be wrong about this survey.......
RE: Where are the Japanese Brands?
>like Casio and such. Something must be wrong about
>this survey.......
No, nothing is wrong "about" this survey. You just have trouble facing reality when it doesn't fit your biases.
RE: Where are the Japanese Brands?
Do you know, or does anyone else know for that matter, what Sony's percentage is in this survey? I'm just curious. I saw what their retail sales figures are in your other story, but the IDC figures in this story don't include anything on Sony, or did I miss it somewhere??
Thanks.
RE: Where are the Japanese Brands?
It is obvious that the other brands such as Sony, Casio, etc have the rest of market share.
It is that simple.
Foo Fighter
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News Editor
RE: Foo Fighter
The MFG ships all that palm buys, even if they stink at their forcasts. But to call this a market share growth statement is poor reporting.
RE: Foo Fighter
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2880
Foo Fighter complained that this was an unrealistic measurement and asked for the numbers of handhelds actually shipped, which this article lists.
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News Editor
RE: Foo Fighter
It's nice to see some actual concrete data (worldwide shipments) rather than market share based on the number of people who walk into Best Buy.
RE: Foo Fighter
RE: Foo Fighter
RE: Foo Fighter
No, not unrealistic. Just not conclusive. The survey conducted by IDC is more telling since it actually accounts for all units that have shipped worldwide. You can't simply measure the number of PDAs being purchased at consumer electronics retailers. Corporations, and even the education market, do not make procurements from retail outlets. It would be like measuring only retail PC sales without counting direct sales, which would completely exclude Dell.
RE: Foo Fighter
I got to play with one at SonyStyle in NYC yesterday. *Marvelous!* I want it!!
RE: Foo Fighter
RE: Foo Fighter
I'm really waiting for this unit for months now. And now that it's finally available, I can't get it anywhere out here. Any suggestions how can I get one? Order online? Get myself into slavery? C'mon guys there has got to be a way.
RE: Foo Fighter
> By the way, don't you just love the way Palminfocenter puts a spin
> on every piece of good new for Palm?
>
>Example:
>
> PDABuzz headline: Holidays better than expected for PDA's, Palm rebounds
> PalmInfoCenter headline: Palm Gains Worldwide Marketshare
Foo Fighter, if you are going to accuse me of being biased, could you at least do it here so I don't have to stumble across it days later?
---
News Editor
Where is the Data
This article reports gain in marketshare for Palm. That would assume you report what percentage it was, and what percentage it is for the same reporting period by company. This artice lacks factual data yet titles a conclusion. Could we please have the facts presented in your articles?
RE: Where is the Data
During the 4th quarter, Palm-branded handhelds accounted for 42.6% of all handhelds shipped worldwide. In the 3rd quarter, Palm had accounted for 33% of all handhelds shipped. There's your increase, looks up about 30% to me.
RE: Where is the Data
RE: Where is the Data
This story was written by Richard Shim, who his strongly Anti-PocketPC. He wrote a slanderous article back in 2000 that accused Microsoft of bribing Palm users with free PPC hardware.
Wrong Title for this Article
RE: Where is the Data
Just look around you, how many PalmOS and how many PPC ?? PPC are carried by yuppies who only want "chip power" over their hands and leave it the briefcase at midafternoon when the battery is dead. These guys also wanted PPC because they were taught that PPC was "identical" to Windows (I donīt think so) and that it was easier to use than Palms (definetely not!). They also were said that they had Word and Excel and they didnīt with Palm. I know some of them, fortunately for them they are switching to Palm ;-)
RE: Where is the Data
>strongly Anti-PocketPC.
Oh, he his, his he?
>He wrote a slanderous article back in 2000 that
>accused Microsoft of bribing Palm users with free
>PPC hardware.
a) Learn what slander is. An article can not be slanderous.
b) It's not libelous either.
c) Everyone reported that, because it was true. We had posts on PIC and newsgroups and everywhere from Palm developers talking about the free PocketPC devices they got and how they weren't using them because they sucked.
Please, get a clue before shooting your ignorant mouth off.
RE: Where is the Data
No it's not. Did you even read the thing?
>"Palm Gains Worldwide Marketshare"
It did. It distinctly says marketshare was up last quarter. The data backs it up. What's your damage? Wouldn't be that your poor PocketPC ego was hurt by reality, would it?
>The title should be Palm Loses Worldwide Marketshare".
>According to the data palm had 53% in the 4th quarter
>of 2000 down to 42.6% 4th quarter the following year.
>How is this gaining marketshare?
Dude, reading comprehension. It didn't say marketshare in the last year, it said in the last quarter. But then you won't be satisfied until you manipulate the numbers until they say what you want them to say, will you?
>Slick Reporting I guess.
Yes, reporting facts instead of your Microsoft-addled biases is obviously a sin. sheesh.
RE: Where is the Data
Exactly my point. This is a weasle word article. Firstly, I'm not a PPC person so enough with that. Palm is down from 53% market share last year, they were really down 3rd quarter and up to finally 42.6 4th quarter. In other words they have gained back some they lost but are still on a DOWNWARD TREND. Let's don't say they are gaining. As a business they are "Losing market share" not gaining. HS and Sony on the other hand are GAINING market share. As a whole PALM OS products are doing well against the handheld base not PPC.
SONY NOT EVEN ON THE MAP!
Anyone think they know, please respond and clue me in...
Palm's Q4 shipment increases 120% from Q3 shipment
from previous quater. Here is the simple math based on IDC's convoluted numbers:
Industry Q4 unit sell is 3.63 million. Palm unit sell is 1.63 million units
Industry Q4 unit sell is 68% higer than last quater:
Therefore, Industry Q3 unit sell is 2.22 million and Palm unit sell is 0.73 million (33% of industry).
As a result, Palm's unit sell improved from 0.73 million in Q3 to 1.63 million in Q4, which corresponds
to an increase of 120% from previous quater.
This number is twice as good as the general industry change. I wonder why IDC did not highlight this fact or even mention it.
Palm and PocketPC tracking
It will be watching with interest how the market share shift. I think PocketPC may gain share over time.
John Koon
www.techidea.net
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