Comments on: Palm OS Hits 20 Million Handhelds

The Platform Solutions Group, the Palm subsidiary that licences the Palm OS, has reported that the total number of handhelds running the Palm OS ever sold has passed the 20 million mark worldwide. November sales figures from market research firm NPD Intellect showed Palm Powered handhelds made up about 82% of all handhelds sold at retail in the United States. In preliminary numbers for December, that percentage rose even higher. The top three handheld vendors during the all-important holiday season all sold devices using the Palm OS: Palm, Handspring and Sony.
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ok I am very happpppppyyyyyyy.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 11:27:33 AM #
ok I am very happpppppyyyyyyy.
Congratulations.
I am going to sleep very good.

Die PocketPC Die!!!!!

Beavis @ 1/21/2002 11:36:41 AM #
Let see how the PocketPC Trolls spin this one.

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:57:51 PM #
What are you looking for, assurnce in numbers that people really do make mistakes and don't know what they are doing? Well, now you got that...The Palm PDA Family.

Just remember this as you try to make yourself feel better for your own lack of vision by calling me a troll;
That the new Palm will support multithreading,
Multimedia beyond what it can do today
Extended memory
32 bit OS
The death of the dragonball and a move to the ARM processors

Ha.. Sounds like a PPC to me. So please let me be the first to welcome all of you to the real world of Pocket Computing (That is if Palm can actually do this successfully without screwing uplike they did when the released their current genarations of Palm Devices).

Funny how the very things Palm fought against and gave reason for their success in the PDA world are the core things Palm is trying to implement with Palm OS 5. And I just gotta say, who's the fool running around like a chicken with no head, not know what direction to go in. Again..The Palm.
Thank you for letting me share my thoughts.

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 1:28:00 PM #
Thank you...


RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 1:35:41 PM #
Most of us never objected to the idea of faster processors and more capabilities. Its was Microsoft's implementation that drove us away. The OS was kludgy, poorly designed, hard to use, and bloated. It required the poor licensees to put very fast chips and large amounts of RAM in only to run the OS. More was needed to use any programs. This drove the price up into the stratosphere and battery life down into the basement. Even the latest PPC 2002 hasn't totally fixed this.

Palm has had ample chance to learn from Microsoft's mistakes. OS 5 won't require 32 MB of memory just for the OS. It won't run so slowly that battery draining processors will be necessary just to make it slightly fast enough. It won't make the handhelds so expensive that only upper-middle class geeks can afford them.

Palm has waited until batteries and processors are good enough to hit the sweet spot. If Microsoft isn't nervous, it should be.

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 3:18:24 PM #
I think the whole troll thing is a bit whacky. I finally took a look at the PPC and found some things I didn't like as well as some that I did. Why is people's reaction is to hate one thing inorder to love another? I think whether it is Palm or PPC, the future is about more memory (with or without expansion cards) and wireless capabilities. Take a look at my thoughts on the PPC (iPaq 3635).

http://www.palmloyal.com/article.php?sid=607

Carl Brooks
http://www.palmloyal.com

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
peter167 @ 1/21/2002 4:13:58 PM #
The guy from palmloyal.com

We respect everyone on this planet, but we do not respect for someone's wrong doings.

As long as PPCs are selling at these prices, anyone could have predicted that sales for these UNITs are slow.

You, as an editor, may think one feature is better than another. But you have not adjusted the value of PPCs accordingly with its price. (Yes, I have read that review.)

What trolls and bashers out there is they forget consumers have to pay real dollars to purchase, so do enterprises. Look for M$ to team up with Gartner or other whores to tell us how M$ market share is gaining. But they never never told you the real number of handhelds show each quarter. All they give us is either revenue, revenue generated by retail price, % increase when compared with years ago or some funky numbers that are generated by some genius.

If you would like to know how sales are for Palm and PPCs, please go to amazon.com and click Electronics and click Handhelds. There are top sellers over there. You can pretty much tell Palm is way outselling PPCs at a 5:1 ratio.

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 5:47:40 PM #
Relax, guys, he's just trying to tell us the pros and cons of PPC, so that each of us (with different budget plan) can see which platform fits us better.

by the way, that is a good review.

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
robrecht @ 1/21/2002 6:36:10 PM #
Why is there so much animosity among posters here who support PPC, or Palm, or Handspring, or Sony? Are people just trying to have some fun anonymously, or do you really hate each other so? Kind of pathetic, isn't it?

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
T.E. @ 1/21/2002 6:57:49 PM #
"Just remember this as you try to make yourself feel better for your own lack of vision by calling me a troll;
That the new Palm will support multithreading,
Multimedia beyond what it can do today
Extended memory
32 bit OS
The death of the dragonball and a move to the ARM processors

Ha.. Sounds like a PPC to me."

So everything with more hardware specs is a PPC? Kind of stupid to look at it from this one-sides point of view, don't you think?

PPC's also come with
- bloated os
- bulky design
- crappy batterylife
- average very high price

4 things which the new Palm devices will probably not have (and if they do, I won't buy them).

"So please let me be the first to welcome all of you to the real world of Pocket Computing (That is if Palm can actually do this successfully without screwing uplike they did when the released their current genarations of Palm Devices)."

The PPC side sure wasn't able to do this without screwing up. Adding advanced features was a nice idea, but at such high prices and trade-offs that it was simply not worth it for a lot of people. However, technological development doesn't just sit still and now it is possible to add more advanced features without those horrible trade-offs. This is the time at which I would want to get a more advanced machine, but it has to be small, with proper battery life, and with an efficiënt os behind it. In other words, not the current PPC platform.

"Funny how the very things Palm fought against and gave reason for their success in the PDA world are the core things Palm is trying to implement with Palm OS 5. And I just gotta say, who's the fool running around like a chicken with no head, not know what direction to go in. Again..The Palm."

Technology changes and as such, so do the possibilities. Companies that keep the same stubborn ideas in their minds go under sooner or later (it almost happened to Palm, lets hope they'll be more flexible from now on.). MS also appears to be very stubborn, which can be seen by the defects of all previous PPC's. They'll be able to cram enough processor power and memory in a PPC to make it do what they want, but will battery technology and their bloated os be able to handle it properly? I suspect that sooner or later Palm os pda's will be able to do the same stuff at the same speed thanks to higher efficiëncy but with lower processors and less memory, and thereby save cost, size and battery life.

It is typical of certain people to only look at the good sides of PPC devices, and the bad sides of Palm os devices. Then again I am sure it also happens the other way around.

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 7:13:39 PM #
This was actually a good 'B' Horror movie...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000542CO/ref=ed_oe_dvd/102-3547901-3896122



RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 6:22:07 AM #
I read a post up there where someone welcomed Palm to the real computing world.

1) Palm OS had 82% of the market, that leaves 18% to everyone else including PPC. That is insignificant.

2) You actually believe that Palm can screw this up?? The only thing Palm could do with OS 5 is bury PPC. Hell, Palm OS units are still kicking PPCs ass with 33MHZ chips and 8-16 megs of ram. Thats got to hurt some of your feelings Im sure.

PPC is vulnerable right now whether you think so or not.

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 8:10:28 AM #
from the M$ troll at the top:

'What are you looking for, assurnce in numbers that people really do make mistakes and don't know what they are doing? Well, now you got that...The Palm PDA Family'

No, that's Windows!

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
mikecane @ 1/22/2002 9:43:15 AM #
"1) Palm OS had 82% of the market, that leaves 18% to everyone else including PPC. That is insignificant."

-- I don't know about 18% being "insignificant." I'm sure Jobs wishes the Mac still had that market share!

RE: Die PocketPC Die!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 3:33:57 PM #
I'm going to get a rumored "Handmedia" palm... it is supposed to have some really good stuff..... High res color screen... 128 megs of memory... pretty good....

XEROX Graffiti

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 11:38:02 AM #
20 Million x $5 Damages? = $100 Million.

RE: XEROX Graffiti
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 11:44:19 AM #
If Sony and Handspring only pay $8 for the whole OS, $5 is too much.

20 mill. x $1 = $20 mill.

RE: XEROX Graffiti
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 1:03:15 PM #
Punitive damages could exceed that.

Accuracy?

Foo Fighter @ 1/21/2002 11:38:00 AM #
The problem with these studies is that they only track sales via retail. Direct sales, and online purchases aren't accounted for. Many consumers and businesses buy higher end devices online where prices are lower.

I really wish IDC or NPD would do a broad market survey to determine a more accurate pie chart.

RE: Accuracy?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 11:46:18 AM #
You've got your answer. This is how the PPC people are going to spin this: "The numbers are innacurate!"

RE: Accuracy?
Foo Fighter @ 1/21/2002 11:55:11 AM #
I'm not a PocketPC user, *******! The numbers are accurate...for RETAIL sales. But what about direct and online sales?

PPC Never Really took off.
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:30:48 PM #
PPC really has not taken off like once expected. I think the high product cost of an organizer of that type is a driver.

RE: Accuracy?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:31:35 PM #
We know Palm still controls enterprise sales:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2628

There may be no numbers for online sales because these would have to be from the sellers themselves. Palm would have to say how many palms they sold and Compaq how many iPaqs. Maybe they don't trust the companies.

RE: Accuracy?
Foo Fighter @ 1/21/2002 12:35:15 PM #
I don't understand why we are even talking about PocketPC, since I never mentioned it my post. I'm more interested in seeing how well Sony is doing. My main criticism on this study (and others like it) is that it's not a "complete" analysis.

RE: HS has maintained their #2 position
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:40:46 PM #
Dispite all of the HS bashing from the discussion leaders. HS has maintained their #2 position in the PDA environment.

RE: Accuracy?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 4:58:18 PM #
Those are old data, Oct, November? Now is January, at least 3 months old. Think of the new units sold, I am sure it will be a different story. Well, that does not really matter, see who stays in business longer ^ Sony? HS?

RE: Accuracy?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 5:03:18 PM #
> Those are old data, Oct, November? Now is January, at least 3 months old.

November is at least 3 months ago? They also say they order hasn't changed in December, and that's 3 weeks ago.

RE: Accuracy?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 7:52:18 PM #
Exactly, so these numbers don't take into account Trg/HandEra figures since 1999. Only recently have you been able to get them in a brick and mortar in the US. Here in Canada it's still an online only deal (mostly Futureshop.ca, Handheldinterfaces.com, or direct over the border sales from Handera.com)

It sure would be nice to know the total including the online sales, and figures from non-public companies like HandEra, who aren't obligated to tell their figures to anyone.

20M units, maybe, but how many are in use?

mikemusick @ 1/21/2002 12:46:46 PM #
I automatically cut this number by 50%, and then start hacking away to get a sense of the real world. The "positive" about Palm OS hardware is that it is relatively cheap. The "negative" about Palm OS hardware is that it is relatively cheap.

In other words, the cost of upgrading is so trivial that I believe that at least half of all devices sold to date are sitting in someone's "junk drawer" due to replacement. Also, last time I looked they were claiming "50,000 developers", and if that's taken at face value, most developers are going to have at least two devices (one to use, one to crash ;-) ).

Bottom line - that's a lot of idle units.

RE: 20M units, maybe, but how many are in use?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 12:57:49 PM #
Heh... 50,000 developers. This number is the number of folks that sign up to be a developer, many of them just to get a copy of a ROM so they can run POSE. Talk about an inflated number! (heck, I think I'm at least two of those developers myself, and I've never written a lick of Palm OS code...)

RE: 20M units, maybe, but how many are in use?
popko @ 1/21/2002 1:09:52 PM #
Yeah, his right. I too, have signed up just to get the ROMs. As far as my real C/C++ skills goes ... :)

RE: 20M units, maybe, but how many are in use?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 2:08:44 PM #
I'm a Palm developer and have only my main device (H330) and a original Sony S320. All my testing is done using the emulator which can mimmick any device out there.

Had many more Palm devices before though, but I give them away to people who I think could use them, Which is what most people would do rather then sticking it in a junk drawer. 2 of the people I gave my old handheld to ended up loving them so much that they went out and got their own new model and again passed that device to their wife and little brother.

RE: 20M units, maybe, but how many are in use?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 2:38:35 PM #
There may be more of the old units in use than you think. Take a look on ebay in the Palm catagory. There are tons of III's of every flavor, and even a fair amount of Pilots and Pilot Professionals. The bidding is lively too. I bought a III a few months ago for my Mom to use. People aren't buying the older models by the truckloads on ebay just to toss them in a junk drawer, they're being used. I still use a IIIxe myself because I haven't seen any new models that have features that I feel I must have, and that includes Pocket PC's. When I see hi res color screens that can be viewed indoors and outdoors, good battery life, virtual grafitti area, faster processors and more memory built in, then I'll upgrade. I admit, some of the new Sony models come close, but I still don't see a virtual grafitti area.

RE: 20M units, maybe, but how many are in use?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 10:29:42 PM #
I'm on my 3rd PalmOS device, a Sony Clié S320. My 11 year old sister has my old Palm V, and uses it primarily to keep track of homework and addresses/phone numbers, with games being a secondary feature, its not just a toy for her. My 70+ Grandma has my Palm III, and uses it for addresses/phone numbers, jotting down notes, and solitare. When I upgrade to a color Clié this summer, my best friend is going to get my S320. Just my own experience with usage of old PalmOS devices...

RE: 20M units, maybe, but how many are in use?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 10:39:53 PM #
God bless your Grandpa!!! I love to see a 70+ year old fearlessly embrace technology!!!

RE: 20M units, maybe, but how many are in use?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 11:17:45 PM #
I'm still using my IIIxe, because, like the writer above, I haven't found a compelling need to switch. I work with doctors, and they are still using their Vs and Vxs. Not everyone dumps a few hundred dollar device the moment the next upgrade comes along. In fact, I would guess most Palms later than the III are still in use.

Great Palms

Handmedia @ 1/21/2002 6:13:14 PM #
I heard a new company called Handmedia is making some cool new palms with 32-128 megs of ram and some sharp new colour screens, and long lasting battery.... Should i order one?

RE: Great Palms
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 6:24:27 PM #
Order a hundred before anyone else finds out about them.

RE: Great Palms
higgy @ 1/21/2002 6:25:30 PM #
I ordered five yesterday, and will order more so I can have one in each room of my house.

RE: Great Palms
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 6:52:22 PM #
They only run on electricity from Enron...

RE: Great Palms
Handmedia @ 1/21/2002 8:27:40 PM #
It uses a lithum-ion battery, priced at 400$ for pre-order....

RE: Great Palms
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 12:59:43 AM #
I'm guessing this is an inside joke of some sort. sorry to be dorky but I'm really looking for a new handheld and this would be a cruel joke if that's what it proved to be

RE: Great Palms
Handmedia @ 1/22/2002 7:51:50 AM #
And if it wasn't a joke.... would you get one?

RE: Great Palms
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 11:01:54 AM #
Sure, advertising a fake "Handmedia" product under the user name Handmedia? If it is real, that's a sucky marketing strategy.

RE: Great Palms
Handmedia @ 1/22/2002 3:30:55 PM #
Well... Maybe you should realise i'm the CEO of Handmedia, if you leave your e-mail address, we'll send you the press realease.

RE: Great Palms
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/30/2002 1:22:37 AM #
HandMedia DOA...

No product
No website
No such unit

Email from this suppsoed CEO was next to useless. If this was supposed to impress anybody, it didn't.

Ho hum...

Thank you SONY!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 9:43:20 PM #
Sony, once the laughing stock of the PDA world (c'mon, the original CLIE was a joke!) , may soon be what keeps people from crossing over into the bungled mess that is the PocketPC world.... until Microsoft's purposefully deceptive advertising gets cranked even higher. If Sony doesn't stop, Handspring will be looking over their shoulder (MemoryStick memory is cheaper than Springboard, they've already got an Eyemodule1 -like camera and a clever Mp3 player add on for non N710C users, and Donna Dubinsky just killed some confidence in the Visor lineup.)

Sony took the Palm OS, and threw it head to head with the PocketPC OS in many aspects. (Yes, it can't exactly multi-task, and wireless networking hasn't arrived (yet.) , but multitasking is irrelevant to the PDA world RIGHT NOW beyond the CLIE's capability for audio.) Besides, the CLIE's screen is simply gorgeous compared to ANYTHING else out there.

Even more amazing, the new PEG-N760C pulls it all off without turning the Palm OS into a kludgy, confusing mess, or without raising all sorts of compatibility issues. Now.. about that crappy flip cover that came with it.

I'll admit that most Sony products are over-rated crap, but the CLIE is the best thing to come out of the purple-loving company since the Aibo!

RE: Thank you SONY!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/21/2002 11:52:25 PM #
Uh, Sony didn't do anything for the Palm OS other than add a dumb pixel doubling hack, and I guess VFS. Hardware-wise all they have added is a 320x320 screen, and a hardware MP3 decoder on one model. Yes, the models with those features are notable to people who might consider an even more expensive PocketPC device, but Sony isn't performing miracles, and they sure as heck didn't do anything positive for the Palm OS with that pixel doubling hack.

> the CLIE's screen is simply gorgeous compared to ANYTHING else out there.

Oh please! I'd take most any of the new PocketPC device's color screens over the tiny screens on the Clies. Do you keep your Clie on an altar and worship it at night?

RE: Thank you SONY!
TDS @ 1/22/2002 12:34:10 AM #
Hmmm... You just stated four very nice additions to the PalmOS line that Sony has added in the last 7 months. And you are still not impressed? What will it take? Built in Transporter? Neural Jack? Kitchen Sink Memory stick? Sony has done a great job of adding features to the PalmOS line, as have all of the licencees.
Doug (A Prism owner)

RE: Thank you SONY!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 1:14:18 AM #
What makes Sony different is its high quality standards, have you guys seen the new clies? (the old ones too) the craftmanship is just amazing..typical japanese obsession for details. compared to the crappy and cheap looking handsprings, m1XX..etc

RE: Thank you SONY!
LarryGarfield @ 1/22/2002 3:38:07 AM #
High quality standards. You mean like the buttons on the T-415 and T-615? :-)

--
This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA
RE: Thank you SONY!
T.E. @ 1/22/2002 4:56:13 AM #
Right, very high quality work there on those plastic casings and paint that wears off...

Good thing they fixed those problems with the new models, although I would expect something like bluetooth or something extra in pda's that are being released around now. A highres screen is nice but not really amazing, and a small size seems more like a standard to me (but then again, I want just about everything small).

RE: Thank you SONY!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 9:43:33 AM #
> You just stated four very nice additions to the PalmOS line that Sony has
> added in the last 7 months. And you are still not impressed?

The original poster was claiming all the great things Sony did with the Palm OS, OS in capital letters. VFS is more than 7 months old. Their pixel doubling hack was an unelegant step backwards for the Palm OS. The other two items are hardware.

So yes, they did do a couple of things hardware-wise that catch the eyes people looking at PocketPCs (I already said that once), but it is wrong to claim they did anything good for the Palm OS. They hacked it and put their own set of proprietary bundled apps on top of it. How Microsoft of them.

RE: Thank you SONY!
mikecane @ 1/22/2002 9:46:33 AM #
The original CLIE was not a joke. It was simply overpriced. Sony has learned from that mistake -- and how!

As for the T-series buttons that Garfield takes issue with, it depends on personal taste. I happen to like the new toggle (pg up/dn) button the T-series. I find it far easier to use than the one on my S320.

And, please, if we want to bash buttons -- what's that awful JogDial on the H330? HandEra could take lessons from Sony on how to do a JD!

RE: Thank you SONY!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/23/2002 8:08:25 PM #
"Handera could take lessons from Sony", er, you mean take LICENCE. Sony's got the patent on the jog dial. That's why everyone elses's is a bit different. Personally I prefer to be able to hold it down for scrolling rather than keep spinning like a mad man. The only thing Sony's excels at is not missing the odd actuation. Though I notice even the Treo's misses the odd jog as well. Even Sony must have figured they didn't get it right the first time though, as they changed the programming functionality after the early Clie's.

Pocket PC Market Share

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 11:00:26 AM #
Maybe if Pocket PCs weren't so expensive to produce they would beat Palm.

RE: Pocket PC Market Share
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 4:26:16 PM #
maybe if the the organizer portion could be as elegant as the palm's and you could master the features out of the box, the pocketpc's would do better.

the palm is still the only one that is intuitive enough to replace paper (at least for some).

20M is not all that much

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 11:55:00 AM #
This has nothing to do with the Palm community but it´s interesting to notice:

20M isn´t all that much. Let´s make a parallel comparison: I am a hardcore game consumer and we know Sony sold more than 20M PS2 worldwide in no more than 2 years and the 1st Playstation sold much more than that. And we´re only talking about Sony. The game industry as a hole compete side by side with Hollywood itself. And some people still face consoles as no more than flashy toys. Palms/Pocket PCs are waaay less sofisticated but costs more that the most advanced console around today. It´s still way too expensive for anyone: consumer or enterprise. There´s no way to increase market share costing that much. And yes, although a poor m100 is inexpensive, who wants to use that piece of crap when Sony just released that nice T615?

RE: 20M is not all that much
David @ 1/22/2002 12:17:38 PM #
Most people have no need for a PDA, no matter how inexpensive. PDAs are simply not a true consumer item the same way cell phones are. Neither Palm nor Microsoft have been able to make a compelling case to the average consumer about why they need a PDA. Until they do (if they even can) PDAs will remain a niche product.

RE: 20M is not all that much
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/22/2002 12:36:02 PM #
> And yes, although a poor m100 is inexpensive, who wants to use
> that piece of crap when Sony just released that nice T615?

Umm, someone who doesn't have an additional $300 to spend? Money must run from your fingers like water off a duck but the rest of us have to justify what we buy. Color is good. I'd like color. But not for triple the cost.

RE: 20M is not all that much
Scott @ 1/22/2002 4:17:50 PM #
You forget that this is the credit-card generation we're dealing with. I was once a part of that and, in fact, am still feeling the consequences. Buy now, pay forever.

Scott

Visor??

PIC mobile user @ 3/25/2002 2:53:17 AM #
What about Visor from Handspring?

Palm 20 mil mark

PIC mobile user @ 4/20/2002 6:12:02 PM #
Congrats to Palm. I have seen Sony and it is a good machine but I have and will use Palm. I don't need most of the extra's that Sony add''s on, like if I wanted to listen to mp3 i'll buy a mp3 player. This is my second palm and the only complaint is that I bought the 105 just before the 125 came out. Oh well bad timing on my part but the 105 is a good workhorse and does its job well.

Long live Palm and keep making the people who lame on you looking silly.
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