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Comments on: Opinion: Palm OS 5: The Wish List

At PalmSource next week, Palm Inc. will give the world its first look at its next-generation operating system, OS 5. This is the first version of the Palm OS designed to work on ARM-based processors rather than the current Dragonball ones, but that won't be the only change. Long-time contributor Mike Cane has a list of Ten Things That Should Be In Palm OS 5.
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A built - in Journaling application

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:55:01 AM #
Like Day-Notez or similar, but it should automatically collect all of your crossed off to-do's and appointments.

For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:56:19 AM #
What more needs to be said? Let me link anything and everything to each other and let me navigate back and forth with a tap or command-stroke. This is what I want more than anything else

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
mikecane @ 1/29/2002 10:59:48 AM #
What would you be linking? I've heard of apps that can do this sort of thing but have never tried them. Please elaborate.

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:01:18 AM #
I want to be able to manage multiple related tasks and projects. It's a pain trying to keep track of multiple projects (people, facts, to-do's) within the limitations of the current OS.

I want to link all the people in a company together in the Addressbook. I want to link a person's record to all of the appointments I have with them. I want to link a memo regarding a project to all of the to-do's for that project. I want to be able to jump back and forth from that memo to the to-do's with a single tap so I can create, edit or mark them without the OS getting in the way of my thinking. I want to be able to move through my data effortlessly with the OS doing all the work of changing applications and keeping track of where I was in each application.

DateBk4 gives you a little of this, but it should be a function built into the OS to really work.

PS: Check out MegaWiki 4.0. It's not perfect, but it gives you an idea of what linking can do.

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:33:03 AM #
palm has always made operating system simple. We should not ask for complicated things since simple people still are out there and satisfied with the current OS.

A soft grafitti is great but will palm care about softgraffiti considering they dont have any intentions of making a device that can take advantage or it?

What i really want from OS5 is encryption for increased security. right now i can go to C:\palm and look for *.dat files and open with notepad,,and i can see my private records. Its just so easy for me. If i own a company i would never Trust palms current OS for sensitive Datas.

Thats my opinion.

graph

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:49:54 AM #
> A soft graffiti is great but will palm care about softgraffiti considering
> they dont have any intentions of making a device that can take advantage or it?

a) Don't be too sure of this.

b) Even if they don't, that's the advantage of Palm's making the OS Group a subsidiary and eventually a separate company. The Palm Hardware Group is no longer controlling what goes into the OS. The OS Group gets its money from all the licensees and has to cater to all of them, including the ones who want a soft graffiti area.

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 1:59:25 PM #
Actually, if you want to have to-do's and appointments consolidated in a single project-type document, you could use an application called ShadowPlan. It's like BrainForest on steroids.

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:38:42 PM #
Re linking, I once looked at a product called LinkDragon, although I never put much effort into learning it. You might want to try this.

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 6:26:24 PM #
Linking would be great. But it becomes most useful if the links are synchronized between the desktop/palm and can be utilized as such.

That's where Palm wouldn't want to get involved since so many people sync w/ Outlook.

I doubt built-in linking will happen. But I really like the idea, as well.

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 9:00:15 PM #
Search for "megawiki" on palmgear. It's kinda complex, but it lets you create links in text fields to the main palm applications or any program that uses the regular databases.

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
EngrRick @ 1/10/2003 4:49:42 PM #
You'd be right if we were still talking Palm OS 4.x or less. Neither MegaWiki nor LinkerHack work with Palm OS 5. (And LinkDragon does not appear to work, either.)

LINKING IS A REALLY, REALLY USEFUL THING TO BE ABLE TO DO. I WISH THAT IF PALM HAD NOT CHOSEN TO INCLUDE IT IN THEIR OS, THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST LEFT THE WAY OPEN FOR OTHER APPS, TOO. DATEBK5 HAS SOME GOOD LINKING CAPABILITY, BUT I HAVE SEEN FIRST HAND HOW USEFUL COMPREHENSIVE LINKING CAN BE. IT WOULD BE A GREAT IMPROVEMENT.

I love my Tungsten T, but I do miss the links.

RE: For God's sake, LINKING !!!!!!!!
revau @ 9/8/2004 11:54:29 PM #

IR Printing

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:59:11 AM #
Something like PrintBoy should be built-in to the OS to allow all the applications to call one standard print engine. Oh, and have it support True-Type fonts :)

Bluetooth Printing
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:02:24 AM #
I agree but it should be slightly more generic so we can print with Bluetooth. Bluetooth printers are already available and the SD card will be out soon. Palm will include Bluetooth in its first OS5 model.

RE: Bluetooth
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:12:20 AM #
Yup, I agree. I forgot about Bluetooth :)

RE: IR Printing
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 5:32:49 PM #

Yes! Printing.

Some people want to bark about how the developer community should do that, but I think the ability to print from a PDA is totally a core feature which palm should include and standardize.

Was in Europe not too long ago and tried to print from MultiMail which ended up failing becuase of a missing library. It was such a disapointmnet!

RE: IR Printing
arp @ 9/8/2005 7:35:39 PM #
And it still ain't implemented correctly... :(


--
http://www.arpx.net/article.php/top_10_palmos_applications - my top 10 palm apps

wish list

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:53:20 AM #
Well,

All I can say is I really wonder if Palm is listening. My observation of many compagnies is that they tend to listen their clients only via the satisfacion surveys...
Almost every times I e-mail to a compagnie to suggest them some improvments (read: help them), most of the times I don't get any answer. And if I have, they say big thanks but things don't change. There are exeptions, like Mindmaker, but they are so rare.

I don't know if this expression exist in english: praying in the desert...

RE: wish list
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:09:25 PM #
I think that "Praying in the desert" would best be represented by the English "Pissing in the wind" !!

RE: wish list
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:47:31 PM #
Hum,

I'm not sure. Praying in the desert means do something that will have no impact because nobody is listening.

Anyway, doesn't matter.

RE: wish list
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 5:15:54 PM #
that is the correct translation then...

RE: wish list
badbob001 @ 1/30/2002 12:15:56 PM #
My high school teacher had a funny put down: "That's as effective as trying to melt an iceberg with a warm stream of piss."

RE: wish list
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/23/2002 11:56:28 AM #
Wow I.M. Anonymous sure does post a lot...DAMN!

RE: wish list
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/25/2002 4:19:53 PM #
Why do you ask Palm, move to PocketPC 2002 everything already included;)

RE: wish list
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/22/2002 1:32:30 PM #
Really? Does your Pocket PC syn with my Macintosh?

Multiple categories

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:01:47 AM #
Not just more than 16 categories. Let records be assigned to more than one category if the app developer chooses to allow this. This would be extremely useful in the addressbook, for example.

RE: Multiple categories
KB2PMD @ 1/29/2002 11:11:25 AM #
I agree! Also, we should be able to choose categories in our Date Book! If we're syncing to other services (e.g. yahoo!, like I am), it would be nice to be able to only sync certain categories of data (so my work calendar is only that)

RE: Multiple categories
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:32:28 AM #
Why wait for OS 5?

WeSync lets you do this today.

You can have more than 15 address book categories and any contact can be in multiple categories.

You can have multiple calendars - one for work and one for - whatever you want.

www.wesync.com

Multiple Categories and much more Wish List Items
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:35:52 AM #
Yes!!! Multiple Categories

Unlimited # of Categories

Unlimited Filtered Lists(ala on Palm Desktop)

LINKING: if a Contact is linked to a Note/Memo let that Link be preserved during HotSync
FIND: When Searching for a Contact, it's 1st Prefered Attached Note/Memo should also show up on Desktop, and on PDA there should be a LINK to that Memo/Note for back and forth navigation ala on Desktop. BTW, how come only 1 Note/Memo can be opened at a time? In wordprocessors and other applications one can have more than one file opened at time

STANDARDISATION: Why is it a Note on Palm Desktop and Memo on PDA?(at least on Mac it is so)

PHOTOS FIELDS: Can there be several per Contact, so tha one has a "face to go with it"?

4,000 CHARACTERS per Note/Memo: the Truncation NEVER worked properly after HotSyn. Why can't I be warned with some kind of Characters Counter, so I know how close I am to the 4,000 limit. Better yet, NO LIMIT ON CHARACTERS, or at least a greater limit

Word Processing in Notes/Memos

Unlimited # of Notes/Memos

Top-Bottom Page in Note/Memo -- LONG LONG OVERDUE

VIBRATING ALARMS: vibration is very weak, and even if one is wearing very thin clothes, Vibration doesn't last long enough and strong enough to be noticed. If one is on the street, where there are lots of distractions, vibration is almost guaranteed to be unnoticed. BTW, same criticism applies to my Keyocera 2035 Cell Phone

NORTON AND VIRUS DETECTION: ala on desktop, there should be some software that one can run in order to see if All IS OK, ala Norton, TechTools(I am on Mac)

VOICE ACTIVATED PASSWORD: i.e. bring up Palm to one's mouth and say the password to get in

VOICE MEMO RECORDING: instead of writing it down, record it and be able to set alarm on each Voice Memo. BTW, I mean built into Palm, not an Attachment

EMAIL TO COMMAND: one should be able to Email a Note/Memo, or a Contact from Desktop or PDA

Extended Screens(hide Grafiti area)

Fully Functional Quicken

Each PDA Application SHOULD HAVE it's Desktop Companion

COLOR PALMS ONLY! Higher Resolution! More Memory! Faster! Solar Charging: so whenever a PDA is exposed to light it is being recharged, even if it's on = NO MORE BATTERY WORRIES!!!

RE: Multiple categories
Scott @ 1/29/2002 12:24:31 PM #
How did I miss this app?!?!?

This is almost exactly like what I was talking about in one of my later posts below. Combining this with wireless (and it looks like they do) is what will be the "killer app" for wireless, IMO. Of course this thing's been out for a while it seems and it hasn't caught on (in fact, I'd never heard of it). IMO, this is due to the *still* high cost of unlimited wireless. The beauty of this isn't just for businesses (though they can afford to pay the big bucks for wireless). I'm still floored.

Scott

RE: Multiple categories
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:42:08 PM #
Scott - don't get all rosy about WeSync until you've tried it. Despite my initial euphoria, I have found WeSync Calendars so buggy as to be unusable. Duplicates, deletions, unintelligible queries ("Accept record from Handheld/PIM or Handheld/PIM?"), interminable hotsync times, etc. And it wasn't like I didn't try - I gave it a year. WeSync Contacts - the address book function - is much more stable, but I would never DREAM of using it for anything but a conduit to sync up changes to address data needed by multiple Palm users - eg, a family or business with multiple Palm users. WeSync Contacts can ride invisible on your Palm and desktop, and will update your Palm address book. I would be VERY hesitant to use it as a Palm address book replacement, because I am not at all convinced that it is reliable when used that way. You might draw some conclusions from the fact that Palm purchased WeSync a year ago, but appears to have invested little if anything in it since then.

RE: Multiple categories
Scott @ 1/29/2002 2:56:10 PM #
Thanks for bursting my bubble about WeSync. Still, I'll give it a try. Even if it's a flop, I really think that Palm, Inc. needs to be working on getting this sort of thing working and incorporating some of it into the OS and core PIM apps directly. See my post farther down in this thread.

Scott

YEAH
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:50:32 PM #
And you know what your dream pda is called? MS Outlook. Go buy yourselves a Picturebook from sony ans shut up. Palm is easy ans simple and that's the way it should remain.

RE: Multiple categories
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:03:52 PM #
- VOICE ACTIVATED PASSWORD: i.e. bring up Palm to one's mouth and say the password to get in

Ha! I can hear it now:

"Hey, will you guys shut up! I'm trying to log into my palm!"

"Turn off the damn music! I wanna use my palm!"

etc.

I love Mike Cane

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:04:53 AM #
Honestly. His comments here are always good. The only problem with this list tho is that it really is a OS4 list, not an OS5 list. Except for multitasking, all of these things could and should have been done much sooner.

That said, I really hope that Palm is listening to Mike on this one - it would be foolish not to.

RE: I love Mike Cane
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:13:03 AM #
Good article Mike. BTW, I agree with all your points.

Palm OS 5 wishlist

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:10:11 AM #
The wishlist is great and the PocketPC OS already supports everything you want TODAY not TOMORROW or SOMEDAY.

RE: Palm OS 5 wishlist
mikecane @ 1/29/2002 11:13:35 AM #
First, this is a wishlist for PalmOS. If I had a PPC, I'd probably be doing a wishlist for that, too! Just from what I've read and seen of PPC, it has its own set of improvements that need to be made.

Second, PPCs are both larger and more expensive than Palms. That might change with ARMed units, but people still tend to stick with what they know (witness the metastatis of Windows!).

Third, plugging PPC here won't do anything more than show PPC owners in a bad light. Do you want that?

RE: Palm OS 5 wishlist
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:14:30 AM #
Yes, like move a MS Word document onto the handheld, edit it, and move it back to the desktop without most of its formatting being deleted. Oh wait, that's what the Palm OS can do, not the Pocket PC.

OK, how about run for hours without totally draining the battery and erasing the contents of RAM? Darn, I forgot, that's Palm again.

I've got one! Sit in your pocket without making a huge unslightly bulge that drags you clothes all out of shape. Oops, that's Palm again.

Oh I know, cost less than $400. Oh yeah, I forgot. That's the Palm OS again.

How about this? Get more than 20% of the worldwide handheld market. ****, that's not PPC is it?

RE: Palm OS 5 wishlist
pontif @ 1/29/2002 11:43:21 AM #
Ok, against my better judgement, I feel I must comment on this. Please don't flame me. I'm a Palm fan, and Palm developer. I don't want to sound like I'm promoting PocketPC OS or anything, but the fact is that the person who started this thread is absolutely right. Every single OS improvement on the wishlist is already in the PocketPC OS and has been in Window CE for several versions.

Palm has to walk a delicate line here, to avoid producing something that just looks like a first revision PocketPC wannabe. They need to make sure it isn't easier (or cheaper) for developers to switch from Palm OS 4 development to Pocket PC development than it is to switch from OS4 to OS5. They also have to worry about adding PPC's negative aspects as they add the positive features. They have to worry about stability of the OS. (PPC is finally getting less crash prone, but it took 3 revs. Palm can't afford to go until OS 7 to get enough bugs out to have a stable OS.)

RE: Palm OS 5 wishlist
Scott @ 1/29/2002 12:13:16 PM #
pontif, the problem with this argument is that Mike developed this list as a list of things which he feels Palm should add to make the Palm OS everything he wants it to be. It relies on a basis of the Palm OS (as-is) being a solid platform which offers *most* of what he wants. Drawing the conclusion that because PPC offers some of those specific improvements, it must therefore offer what most people want is illogical. As Mike said, the PPC has it's own share of issues. I've tried them both and went back to Palm. My personal opinion is that the Palm OS works fine but could use some improvements. Again, my opinion is that the PPC OS has a lot of great features but has a low overall user experience. Could it's OS and UI be fixed? Sure. In the mean time, I'd rather have less features that work well than more features that don't. Of course, this leaves out the size/weight/cost issues.


To restate much more simply: It would be like Mike saying that he wants his Palm to support toasting bread and me suggesting that a toaster would fit his PDA needs as a result.

Scott

RE: Palm OS 5 wishlist
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:13:08 PM #
Does your last sentence belong with that long paragraph?! It seems to contradict everything you wrote! Who mentioned toast?

RE: Palm OS 5 wishlist
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:51:00 PM #
Oh please, I've heard PPC 2002 is going be the last version if it doesn't start making some money. Even Microsoft can't afford to keep pouring in tens of millions of dollars that get almost no return. MS already said there would be .NET for the Palm OS. Its going to drop PPC and concentrate on supporting OS 5.

Compaq and the rest are pushing for this. They want out of their PPC contracts because they lose ****loads of money. MS is forcing them to stay in with its Windows monopoly. Compaq and HP can't afford to lose Windows for their desktops.

RE: Palm OS 5 wishlist
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2002 3:27:15 PM #
Yea, that makes sense.

Database

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:10:59 AM #
Something like Handbase or List would be fine for a majority of people. Even better, something like HandyShopper.

Doc Format

jzaring @ 1/29/2002 11:11:16 AM #
Mike,

Doc format was not invented by Palm. It was created by iSilo (I think . . . at least some third party) and everyone else just adopted it.

Jon C. Zaring
Zaring Technologies
jzaring@zaringtechnologies.com

RE: Doc Format
mikecane @ 1/29/2002 11:16:09 AM #
Yes, I know that. I don't think it was the iSilo people, however. Was it Rick Broida? (That name pops in my mind.)

Palm should take a leadership role in this issue. It's a kludge right now and it's outlived most of its usefulness, DOC has. A standard all developers could use that offers more features would be a great boost for the Palm Economy and help compete against PPC.

RE: Doc Format
jzaring @ 1/29/2002 11:39:42 AM #
Agreed

Jon C. Zaring
Zaring Technologies
jzaring@zaringtechnologies.com
RE: Doc Format
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 1:19:39 PM #
Rick Bram sold the rights to Aportis, who did nothing with it.

http://www.digitalglyph.com/doc.html

RE: Doc Format
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:50:57 PM #
The important change or addition to the DOC format that Palm SHOULD make is to somehow open their encryption scheme to the OS. Since PalmReader (PeanutPress) is now Palm-owned, there's no good reason (well, I guess now that they're *selling* PalmReader Pro they are competition) not to make this available to developers.

Palm could still protect their books, by requiring the Name/CreditCardPassword as inputs to their API call -- then the developer gets the unencrypted text back out for display. This way users would have a CHOICE in eBook reader, rather than having to use PalmReader for encrypted books. There are a LOT of better readers out there than PalmReader. Palm is "controlling" (monopolizing?) this market by using a proprietary format rather than DOC.

If Mike Cane's suggestion was to happen, let Palm propose an "extension" to the DOC format. Not a new closed format. Whatever happens, make it an OPEN standard, like DOC. Proprietary standards are NOT good for anyone. Competition and a choice of reader is the right way for innovation.

This would be a real shot-in-the-arm for eBooks on the Palm.

RE: Doc Format
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 9:50:38 PM #
I gotta believe that if the peanut reader format were open, publishers wouldn't be giving them bestsellers to sell.

That would suck since I love reading on my Palm. Nobody else has the selection peanut does. Let's not screw it up.

RE: Doc Format
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 3:07:45 AM #
Good encryption schemes don't require hiding the encryption method itself...you just have to keep the keys themselves secure. Since no one wants to hand out their credit card numbers (that's what peanut uses as codes), it would be easy to "open" access to the encryption "engine" and still keep things as secure as they are now. you'd just have another app calling the encryption API.

RE: Doc Format
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 10:47:50 AM #
I would NOT hope that the DOC format goes away any time soon. It is the only long-file document format that darn near _every_ handheld platform can use, regardless of OS or hardware. To think that we'd have to start all over again converting stuff into this new format and make new reader apps for all these various platforms makes me sick to my stomach. Face it, for 90% of the documents we use, DOC is fine. For the other 10%, use iSilo or Plucker, for heaven's sake. This is not a problem that needs fixing, especially not by Palm.

RE: Doc Format
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:14:12 PM #
Well, at least I got the "Rick" part right. Sorry, Rick Bram.

a better list

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:09:22 AM #
Why not add some important things like

-multi threading

-better sound and a tone dialer to the address book

-native MP3 support

-real error detection and handling, having fatal errors because your removing all error handling in favor of speed is stupid IMO

-native jog dial support

-improved security so all these crappy password saving and security apps are not needed

-real expense application for personal expenses, something that blows away Money on Pocket PC and synchronizes to the PC

RE: a better list
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:59:03 PM #
Good list! My list, in order of importance would include:

Must have:

1) ARM + DragonBall support. We need faster CPU to handle many of the following items.

2) Multi-tasking. Gotta be able to download your new email while editing an outgoing email message.

3) Better sound (MP3 + pick any other sound format such as WAV)

4) Variable sized screen support, with options for handling older apps by way of re-positioning, scaling the screen, or scaling the UI elements on the screen by either hw or sw.

Nice to have (I know we can write these ourselves, but I think they're so common and important that it should be in the OS, and sooner rather than later):

5) Encryption API (MicroSoft is having a field day in the enterprise space because there is no built-in encryption on Palm)

6) Better text gadgets. I think their extensible font architecture is fine as it is. But I think you need to be able to have more sophisticated text in the OS gadgets. For example, the simple text box should support mixed font, color text, basic text formatting, and clickable words.

7) Tree View gadget. I want something like an extension of the PalmOS "table", but with the ability to expand and collapse nodes like the tree view in Windows Exploder.


I specifically did not put a real filesystem in there because I agree with bcombee that it would complicate the interface. This is exactly the type of feature we want to avoid. I don't want users to see any file except the main application. Otherwise, they will be able to start messing with it, and then you can imagine all kinds of disasters. Applications installing a half dozen user-accessible files with screwy names in different directories. Users renaming, deleting, editing files they're not supposed to, etc.

I would agree that the application launcher needs to be improved to allow for tabs and better UI, but you don't need to change the file system to do that.

-Jason


RE: a better list
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:11:15 PM #
When you have over 1,000 DOCs on your Palm, believe me, you'll want a real filesystem. You will beg for one. And because Palm didn't build it in, you'll flee to PPC.

Birthdays, Holidays, etc.

Scott @ 1/29/2002 11:20:21 AM #
Two-part improvement:
1) New application which would store special dates (e.g. - Holidays, anniversaries). This application could also "read in" special dates (primarily birthdays) from the address book app custom fields.
2) Date book would be modified to automatically check this application and the custom fields so as to display these holidays/birthday info on the appropriate date.

This functionality can currently be done via 3rd party apps but these all require that you tell that app to post the special dates to your datebook. By modifying the datebook app to look at this program's DB (and the custom fields in the datebook), it would be further automated, simplifying things significantly.

Scott

RE: Birthdays, Holidays, etc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:42:29 AM #
Get Holidays and Happy days! Its free
And yeah just custom name your categories

graph

RE: Birthdays, Holidays, etc.
Scott @ 1/29/2002 12:20:11 PM #
I'm aware of those. Please re-read my suggestion more closely.

Scott

Core OS improvements are highest priority

pontif @ 1/29/2002 11:04:33 AM #
I think we should separate this into two groups -- First, support for new features the OS needs, like fonts, color text, soft graffiti area (customizable and/or replacable by 3rd party software), enhanced command bar, higher resolution, better external memory management (ie VFS replacement.)

And second, built-in application improvements.

The reason I think this is important, is the build in apps can be replaced by 3rd party software, but the OS improvements cannot. (Ok, in the current OS we have hacks to sort-of help with that, but in OS 5 hacks won't be an option. And shouldn't be necessary if they build a flexible enough OS.)

I see the first group as highest priority, because without them, you can't even buy 3rd party solutions to resolve the other issues. (Just for the record, I use WordSmith as my memo pad and DateBk4 for the calendar.)


RE: Core OS improvements are highest priority
mikecane @ 1/29/2002 11:46:23 AM #
You get a hearty handshake! You're the first person to point out that I mixed both OS and app improvements in that article. I did so because -- right now, at least -- the apps are bundled with the OS. But I told Ed & Ryan to leave the article alone to see if anyone would notice this. You did. Congratulations!

RE: Core OS improvements are highest priority
kevdo @ 1/29/2002 12:12:18 PM #
I am pretty happy with the built-in aps. A longer standard for doc/memo pad would be nice that's for sure.

The basic ap that needs the most help is the To-Do list. Items which are overdue should show up in red. You should be able to set a reminder for these items to go off every day or every hour or something like that. And, yes, different alarm sounds for different events would help here, too.

Nice list. I hope Palm is listening and even working on most of these.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Core OS improvements are highest priority
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:05:32 PM #
Palm seems over the years to have left application improvements to third-party app and hack developers. Eventually, the best, and most clamoured features appear in the OS, and they seem to be the lowest common denominator, like the agenda view in OS 3.5.

yeah but can i run autocad with it

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:38:01 AM #
this will prolly get me in some flame war, but I just want to be able to run autocad lt on my palm and still have all of the above top 10's

Noctrop_d@yahoo.com

I just want revenge is that so wrong

RE: yeah but can i run autocad with it
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:06:02 PM #
I thought for a while about a Palm CAD program then rejected it. Here's why. Take some masking tape and block of a 2 inch by 2 inch section of your screen. Now run AutoCAD. How much can you get done using ONLY that 2 inch square?

Let's say Palm increases the screen size to 240 x 320. Move the tape to 3.3" by 4.4". How much work can you do in there? Can you even get most of your menu bars in there?

RE: yeah but can i run autocad with it
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:17:50 PM #
yes it seems like a small area to work within and autodesk does make a version for the PPC but if i'm gonna use a PPC i might as well grab a laptop and when your 65 stories up you just need something
A. solid state for the most part
B. small palm III size is kewl
C. plenty of battery life
D. your not bankrupt if you drop it
E. builders and contractors won't want to use it as a hammer

Noctrop_d@yahoo.com

"you may delay but time will not" Ben Franklin

RE: yeah but can i run autocad with it
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 1:00:31 PM #
> I thought for a while about a Palm CAD program then rejected it.

***

You have no imagination. That's why you work in a dead end job.

It may not be "feasible" today, but tomorrow is another story.

Have you heard of monitor sized displays using special glasses? Well, that's what we're going to see in future handhelds. These glasses are available for gaming and watching tv, but future handhelds will have ports to connect these glasses displaying large displays.

And no it's not science fiction. If you think so, stick with your plastic light sabers.

RE: yeah but can i run autocad with it
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 1:46:20 PM #
I wouldn't say he has no imagination, he has some vaild points about screen size and resolution, and in his application of the product it would be quite easier and more productive to have a larger screen

so how bout putting that palm Cad out now

oh i've used thoose vr glasses and their okay but not the best thing in the field an OLCD on a pull out screen would be great though

noctrop_d@yahoo.com

"I've not failed i just found 10,000 ways that won't work" Tom Edison--- the patent thief

RE: yeah but can i run autocad with it
MobileMitch @ 1/29/2002 4:17:17 PM #
Personaly I want to be able to edit 3 or more streams of High Definition video on my palm and do chroma, titles and 3d effects in real time.


RE: yeah but can i run autocad with it
ahecht @ 1/30/2002 2:58:32 AM #
But seriously, with an ARM chip, why not a CAD viewier that allows you to view and rotate a 3D drawing. I'd love to be able to show people my designs without a bunch of static printouts. Something like Volo View, which is the IE plugin for viewing CAD files.

RE: yeah but can i run autocad with it
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 10:01:09 AM #
So lets go talk to autodesk after OS5 is out and get at least a .DWF viewer like voloview out for the palm
SD/MMC would be a great place to store the files

Noctrop_d@yahoo.com

1 of these days i'll register 1 of these daze

P.S. although i hate to say it they do have the PPC onsite program out (of course they run on the ARM hardware)

Increased Security should be #1

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:41:18 AM #
palm has always made operating system simple. We should not ask for complicated things since simple people still are out there and satisfied with the current OS.

A soft grafitti is great but will palm care about softgraffiti considering they dont have any intentions of making a device that can take advantage or it?

What i really want from OS5 is encryption for increased security. right now i can go to C:\palm and look for *.dat files and open with notepad,,and i can see my private records. Its just so easy for me. If i own a company i would never Trust palms current OS for sensitive Datas.

Thats my opinion.

graph

PALM - FIX THE SECURITY PROBLEM!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:58:55 PM #
I have zero technical background, and yet even I realized three years ago that basically anyone could break into my Palm's supposedly "private" data with any word processor. Hey Palm - FIX THIS! And don't tell me I should get a third party app - I've tried a dozen, and they are all more of a hassle than they're worth.

OS 5 or OS 4.5?

Scott @ 1/29/2002 11:24:09 AM #
I echo the statements of some of those who wonder whether this list (and many of the additions added by others in this thread) really *require* a brand new OS rewritten for a whole new type of processor. To be sure, multitasking requires it. Furthermore, the dragonball processor seems to be reaching the end of the line and ARM seems to offer much higher speed possibilities.

As such, I must say (though perhaps I'm in the minority) that the Palm OS really doesn't *need* a major rewrite in the sense that the OS offers most of what people need. I'm actually glad to hear Palm touting multitasking as part of the new OS but not mentioning a lot of the gee-whiz stuff that PPC people tout.

Here's my list of important stuff:
1) Linking (see prior message by somebody)
2) Integration of birthdays, holidays, etc. via modifications to datebook and new "Holiday"-type app (see prior message by me).
3) Multitasking.
4) One standard high-res mode. I personally think that allowing for multiple different standards is going to cause trouble as it will minimize app compatibility (said differently - will require more work of developers - many of whom won't bother). My personal preference is for 240x320 with collapsible Graffiti area, though they need to make sure they get this right and ensure that they have the APIs developed such that apps behave properly when the area is "up" (Many PPC apps have important data hidden behind their input area - bad programming - not sure if the OS or the developer is to blame). BTW, Mike, sadly you need the "menu" icon because some apps use the full 160x160 resolution and "hide" the menu bar.
5) Improved sound support. I'm not talking about built-in MP3. Leave that for 3rd party developers. I'm just talking about the ability to play .WAV files (or something similar). Again, we're getting into dangerous territory now with Sony developing it's own "standard" here.
6) Seamless expansion memory. Can learn from the PPC here.
7) Support for all kinds of file types. Conversion may still be desirable in some cases to maximize viewing on a device, etc. But in other cases, it's good to be able to transfer a file from my PDA to someone else and then to a desktop somewhere.
8) Tap-and-hold menus. One of the few (only?) usability improvements that the PPC brought to the table.
9) Add support for attendees and meeting location to the datebook. This should be optional info that does *NOT* result in me having to edit a bunch of fields like the PPC makes me do. In other words, if I only want to enter a quick appointment I should be able to do it pretty much the way I do it now with the Palm OS.
10) I can't stress this enough: *REALLY* think about how wireless should be *INTEGRATED* into a device. I'm not talking about hardware here. I'm talking about how wireless changes the whole paradigm of using certain tools.
Example 1: I should be able to set up a meeting and have my PDA wirelessly send notifications to all of the attendees. Those attendees could then accept or reject the meeting which would result in me getting notified back again.
Example 2: I want to look at my wife's schedule and see what she has going on for the week. Since we're married, I should be able to see the details of her schedule. OTOH, if I want to see my friend's schedule, I should just see the time blocks which are taken/available. This implies storing this data on a web server somewhere. Oddly, Palm, Inc. had much of what they needed in place with Palm.net but decided to scrap it. What were they thinking?

Scott

RE: OS 5 or OS 4.5?
Scott @ 1/29/2002 11:44:25 AM #
I just want to add that I think that #10 in my list will be the "next big thing". Palm and PPC are trying to add wireless to their devices, but they're not rethinking the whole paradigm. I think Palm did/does non-wireless PIM best. I think the Blackberry does wireless email best. The Danger Hiptop looks to be worth watching as they're storing PIM data on a web server, though I don't know (and actually tend to doubt) that they'll be doing some of what I suggested in my #10 suggestion.

I will say that we're still hobbled in the US by our disparate wireless technologies, lack of coverage in many areas, and high unlimited use wireless costs. The good news is that the things I'm suggesting as being truly useful for wireless don't require high-speed. In fact, Palm's existing pager-style (slow) Palm VII/i705 wireless standard would suffice. I'm still a big believer in the web-clipping concept. I just don't get why they got rid of the server-stored PIM data which could be accessed by other people via web browsers and via their web-clipping applet. IMO, this needed to be *expanded* not dumped, such that the standard PIM apps could read/write to this web server data.

Scott

RE: OS 5 or OS 4.5?
Scott @ 1/29/2002 12:32:50 PM #
Just read above about WeSync. This app sounds amazing. I can't figure out how much it costs so I'll have to go through the steps to download and try it out.

Scott

RE: OS 5 or OS 4.5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:56:30 PM #
It's free - and you might find you get what you pay for. Okay, that's a bit harsh, it is a great help - but see my comment about WeSync above.

RE: OS 5 or OS 4.5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:59:47 PM #
WeSync is *free*. It offers synchronization with just about all types of IP connectivity including desktop and wireless. It actually works too!

Rob

RE: WeSync
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 4:44:47 PM #
Ugh, no thanks. I have no interest in posting my personal info to somebody else's server on the Internet. All kinds of really scary privacy issues there. Then after that you'll be getting ads in your calendar and address book, instead of just in e-mail.

I love the group scheduling examples, they are exactly the kind of area I do research in. The big issues here is that most companies and persons like myself would much rather run our own private servers for this kind of stuff. Unfortunately there are not yet any standardized and popular calendaring server/services solutions.

RE: WeSync
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 6:30:30 PM #
WeSync worked fine for me - great support too.

RE: OS 5 or OS 4.5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2002 3:35:21 PM #
RE: Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 4:44:47 PM


Hahaha! Good call!

Better Memo Pad

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:42:42 AM #
Get rid of the stupid 4K limit.

RE: Better Memo Pad
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:05:16 PM #
Amen. Why does this still exist? And while you're at it, Palm, why not take some of the comments here about improved DOC functionality into account - is there really any need for separate "DOC reader/editors" and a memopad? Aren't we doing basically the same thing - reading and writing text?

Embedded records

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 11:38:03 AM #
I would like to be able to embed (or at least link) records of one application in another e.g. a TealPaint image in DayNotez or the built-in MemoPad (similar to TealNotes, but not limited to a single application). I think this would be extremely useful, and add a lot of flexibility. Hopefully, developers will be encouraged to extend this embedding to desktop companion applications as well. This would allow editing or printing from the desktop.

- Rene


More features doesn't have to mean Complicated

sub_tex @ 1/29/2002 12:10:23 PM #
There seems to be an issue here with some people who believe adding new features (power features) mean that the idea of a simple device will be lost.

I hardly believe that's the case.

The best way to allow this is to simply leave everything up to the user.

For instance, if you are joe shmoe who just wants a PIM device, you have it. pretty much identical to what we have now.

For users who require more from their device they can enable all of the advanced features. Customization is key. Let the user decide what he or she should/would use. You can keep plenty of the guts covered under a "General user" hood, but allow those who want to have full control of their device the opportunity to.

I don't want either or. I want BOTH to be there for the using. Keeping the options open will only help this.

Mike hinted along these lines when he talked about wanting to put what icons he wanted on the command bar, etc. That's precisely the type of control that should be implemented. Your average user might not even know you CAN customize those, let alone want to change them. But for others...

Let's hope OS5 covers some of these issues.

RE: More features doesn't have to mean Complicated
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:29:55 PM #
Yes!!! Multiple Categories

Unlimited # of Categories

Unlimited Filtered Lists(ala on Palm Desktop)

LINKING: if a Contact is linked to a Note/Memo let that Link be preserved during HotSync
FIND: When Searching for a Contact, it's 1st Prefered Attached Note/Memo should also show up on Desktop, and on PDA there should be a LINK to that Memo/Note for back and forth navigation ala on Desktop. BTW, how come only 1 Note/Memo can be opened at a time? In wordprocessors and other applications one can have more than one file opened at time

STANDARDISATION: Why is it a Note on Palm Desktop and Memo on PDA?(at least on Mac it is so)

PHOTOS FIELDS: Can there be several per Contact, so tha one has a "face to go with it"?

4,000 CHARACTERS per Note/Memo: the Truncation NEVER worked properly after HotSyn. Why can't I be warned with some kind of Characters Counter, so I know how close I am to the 4,000 limit. Better yet, NO LIMIT ON CHARACTERS, or at least a greater limit

Word Processing in Notes/Memos

Unlimited # of Notes/Memos

Top-Bottom Page in Note/Memo -- LONG LONG OVERDUE

VIBRATING ALARMS: vibration is very weak, and even if one is wearing very thin clothes, Vibration doesn't last long enough and strong enough to be noticed. If one is on the street, where there are lots of distractions, vibration is almost guaranteed to be unnoticed. BTW, same criticism applies to my Keyocera 2035 Cell Phone

NORTON AND VIRUS DETECTION: ala on desktop, there should be some software that one can run in order to see if All IS OK, ala Norton, TechTools(I am on Mac)

VOICE ACTIVATED PASSWORD: i.e. bring up Palm to one's mouth and say the password to get in

VOICE MEMO RECORDING: instead of writing it down, record it and be able to set alarm on each Voice Memo. BTW, I mean built into Palm, not an Attachment

EMAIL TO COMMAND: one should be able to Email a Note/Memo, or a Contact from Desktop or PDA

Extended Screens(hide Grafiti area)

Fully Functional Quicken

Each PDA Application SHOULD HAVE it's Desktop Companion

COLOR PALMS ONLY! Higher Resolution! More Memory! Faster! Solar Charging: so whenever a PDA is exposed to light it is being recharged, even if it's on = NO MORE BATTERY WORRIES!!!

Go buy a notebook with Windows

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:15:28 PM #
........for all of you with one thousand and one wishes.

The Palm was meant to be simple to use and effective for certain tasks, sort of organizer, but with much more.

I wish for light weight, low price, wireless e-mail, Wi-Fi/Bleutooth and KISS (keep it simple stupid).

Need more? Use your notebook or desktop.

RE: Go buy a notebook with Windows
sub_tex @ 1/29/2002 12:38:01 PM #
what parts of the wishlists are not simple?

There's nothing that has been asked that takes a the PDA out of it's status as an intermediary device between your laptop and your desktop.

We're not asking for Photoshop on the Palm.......

RE: Go buy a notebook with Windows
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 1:28:18 PM #
Could I have Photoshop on my Palm, please?

Sorry, couldn't resist...

RE: Go buy a notebook with Windows
MobileMitch @ 1/29/2002 4:25:14 PM #
Not photoshop! You guys are all thinking so small. Real time video editing on the palm, that is what we need and I don't see why anyone would ever buy another Palm untill this is developed.

Come on! JFK asked congress for the Moon and he got it!

Here are the specs....
2ghz proccessing with multi media extensions
250mhz graphics proccessing with 128mb of graphical ram
200 gigs of video storage
all in a 4.5x3x.5 inche form factor

RE: Go buy a notebook with Windows
rclayton @ 1/29/2002 5:20:01 PM #
I agree....I've got my laptop for things I can't do on my Palm....or things that just don't make sense doing on a tiny screen....keep it simple but make it easy for developers to write the software that add these features.

Then we can add what we want and ignore what we don't.

Ryan
ryan@girlandgeek.com
http://www.girlandgeek.com

RE: Go buy a notebook with Windows
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 10:15:31 AM #
lets go back to the roots..simplicity!
that's what a PDA is all about
that makes palm better thatn those pocketpc,etc

RE: Go buy a notebook with Windows
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:16:53 PM #
To the above in this thread: At least until OS X, the Mac was both simple and powerful. The two are not mutually exclusive nor contradictory (unless it's being done at Microsoft)...

Nervous

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:24:19 PM #
I've loved PalmOS and I've hated PocketPC, but Palm Inc. makes me a little bit nervous. They do nothing. Look at Sony and HandEra. They introduce many innovations. Why we don't have build in Word Editor in PalmOS? Even Microsoft makes more changes in Windows. I think seriously about changing platform...


Sorry, for mistakes.

RE: Nervous
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:58:29 PM #
> They do nothing. Look at Sony and HandEra. They introduce many innovations.

The people (or losers) running Palm last year have all been fired. The new people (esp. Nagel) have often said the company has fallen behind and that they are doing something about it.

> Why we don't have build in Word Editor in PalmOS?

We do. Documents to Go comes bundled with almost every Palm OS handheld. That or Quickoffice. What more do you want? Or have you been brainwashed by Microsoft to only trust a word processor made by the same company that makes the OS? That's just silly.

RE: Nervous
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:40:24 PM #
I vote for WordPad.

RE: Nervous
Scott @ 1/29/2002 3:45:49 PM #
Bundling a word processor into the ROM is a horrible idea, IMO. MS is now the first and foremost word processor developer for PPC. Anyone entering that market on the PPC would have to be foolish. Not only that, but now owners of older PPC devices (HP 548, for instance) can't upgrade to the newest version of the word processor since they can't upgrade their ROM. Is this how these sorts of apps should be handled? Please, leave all but core apps out of the ROM!

Scott

RE: Nervous
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 4:36:23 PM #
Other problem with "bundling" is that it would take Palm down the Microsoft path. I like the fact that by only bundling basic PIM functionality, it opens a big market to 3rd party developers. That is something Palm is prowd of, and I don't expect it to change.

RE: Nervous-Bundled wordprocessor
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 7:52:51 PM #
If they are going to bundle and word processor (which they shouldn't), make it WordSmith, which has been considered better than PocketWord. The wish list makes me nervous. Palm shouldn't be in the business of bundling an pre-installing apps like this, and many of the other features requested on peoples' wish lists. By NOT including them, Palm created an economy of third party vendors creating apps and competing to be the best. The result has been that we users have choices!! M$ on the otherhand tried too hard to give folks everything and the result was that third party vendors had no reason to develop for the platform. Thus, fewer choices. This should sound familiar to you, because this is EXACTLY what Apple did wrong that allowed M$ to win that battle. You'd think M$ would have learned from Apple's mistake. We really need to scale down this wish list so as not to stiffle third party development of apps and enhancements.

What does BeOS bring to the OS5?

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:32:01 PM #
Other than multitasking, I just don't know what does BeOS bring to the OS5... well, maybe wait for OS 6...

RE: What does BeOS bring to the OS5?
Ed @ 1/29/2002 12:55:59 PM #
According to a source who shall remain nameless, the GUI for OS 5 is more "Be-like". I don't know what that means either.

---
News Editor

Competition is Good.

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 12:46:27 PM #
This wish list is SO deja vous ! ! !

It may be time to drag out the all the articles and quotes from Palm Execs in 2000 just flaming all this exact requests.....

Well at least it might equal what the Pocket PC did BACK in 2000 if can ever get released out the door before the investors start calling for the next head.... Boy I am glad I didn't get hung out to dry on that IPO !

I want this out because competition is GOOD for everybody in the PDA community.

Too much too soon

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 1:02:13 PM #
It is a lot to ask for Palm to completely rearchitect their operating system so that it is not dependent on 68k Dragonball hardware AND rewrite all of the PIM apps AND add a lot of bells and whistles all in a single OS release.

I think it would make a lot more sense to release the rearchitected OS first that runs on the faster, more diverse hardware, and then add the bells and whistles later.

Even if OS 5 provides an identical user experience to OS 4 but pulls it off on brand new, completely incompatible hardware, it is still a major accomplishment. It may be a grave disappointment to the Power User who wants everything yesterday, but it is still impressive.

RE: Too much too soon
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:12:37 PM #
Palm has spent the last two years working on OS 5. It was supposed to be out last fall. I hope that the reason they've delayed for almost a year is to listen to their customers and add the features that will keep the Palm loyalists.

I am a Palm Developer and love the platform and support. But M$ has the ball right now. Palm is playing catch-up. There are alot of Palm Power users out there waiting to see what the next gen palms are going to be like. If it turns out to be a multi-tasking version of OS4 I think they will loose alot of market share.

RE: Too much too soon
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:30:47 PM #
I agree and I think this is exactly what will happen plus a few minor cosmetic/usability enhancements.
I think that power users are simply a little bored with the OS as it stands and want differences for their own sake.
Having said that, this is exactly the reason why I never really liked MacOS. It was too simple to use for me and lacked features I can fiddle with, therefore I get bored.
Windows, for all its faults, is simply more fun for the technically minded to play with.

PalmOS 5... um... already here?

strredwolf @ 1/29/2002 1:08:49 PM #
Let me go through this...

1. A real file system -- Yes, we need to put in VFAT or FAT32 into the system, of not go Unix-baised (Linux ext2, anyone?)

2. More categories -- Always an improvement

3. Top/Bottom page in Memopad -- Grab the SDK. The Memopad sources are there. Fix it yourself.

4. Native color support -- Already here. What you need is expanded use of color.

5. True font handling -- Agreed, Palm's own sans-serif 72 dpi fonts aren't cutting it for most users now. However, PalmOS has support for bringing in any font .prc, and there's already programs for editing them. Most programs just have to ID and use them.

6. A long-file standard. -- Already here, check the 3.1 API. DOC uses database .prc's.

7. Command Bar customization -- Expanded use would be nice...

8. Selectable Alarms -- Doesn't items other than the Datebook do this?

9. Task Switching a-la Win 3.1 -- Puh-lease, at the very least, this type of multitasking!

10. Soft/On-screen Graffiti -- Actually, a combo of #9 and this: Make the Graffiti window resizeable and movable. Linux on iPaq has this.


RE: PalmOS 5... um... already here?
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:20:14 PM #
"3. Top/Bottom page in Memopad -- Grab the SDK. The Memopad sources are there. Fix it yourself."

-- wow, not only I must learn C, but the Palm SDK and CodeWorks, just to get two g*ddammed icons Palm was too stupid to put in? (Or were they too distracted, having wet dreams over that HQ building that didn't happen because they were having wet dreams over that HQ building...?)

Wait wait wait! OS 5? Give me my free 4.01 update first

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 1:55:34 PM #
I am an m505 owner and i know 4.01 is suppose to be free..but where is it?

RE: Wait wait wait! OS 5? Give me my free 4.01 update first
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 7:41:12 AM #
Yes 4.0.1 is Free... It is the The palm Desktop...

Now for the palm OS there is 4.1 thats costs your $40 But this is not avaiable for the m500 series and there was no promise of a free upgrade for 500 series...

RE: Wait wait wait! OS 5? Give me my free 4.01 update first
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 7:49:14 AM #
There's a free 4.0.1 upgrade available @ http://www.palm.com/support/downloads
As for a 4.0.1 Palm OS there is none.
There is a 4.1 Palm OS upgrade for older palms,
not for the M series of palms and it is not
free.

Wish List - Beware

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:08:58 PM #
I am a little concerned with some of the 'wishes' people throw around here....

If Palm were to change the Datebook to have DateBk functionality, then they add a database program a la HanDBase, a word processor a la WordSmith, etc, etc, they will basically end up killing the companies who have helped make Palm to what it is now, by ensuring good quality programs to be available for this platform.

RE: Wish List - Beware
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 4:43:33 PM #
Thank Goodness to find this... The biggest think for me is to get rid of the "stock" datebook, calendar, notepad. Just want to use the programs I have bought and not use space with the same less useful items...

reaction

bcombee @ 1/29/2002 2:10:52 PM #
> 1) A real file system.

I think VFS does a good job. Palm didn't go all the way here, though. What they should have done in OS 4 was release a VFS driver for the internal RAM. Then, your application could just use VFS everywhere. Of course, this approach would have had the problem of backwards compatibility, so instead, Palm went the other way and provided a simple PDB reading library on top-of-VFS.

Remember, not having a hierarchial file system is part of Palm's simplicity. It keeps applications from getting too complicated, making users have to figure out where files are.

> 2) More Categories.

This was always a tradeoff. Each database record has a 4-bit category field. Using more bits would have required expanding the size of the record header and causing DBs to use more RAM. Individual apps can use their own category system, bypassing the OS's, but I think the 16 limit is fine for most things.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead

RE: reaction
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 2:34:13 PM #
I agree and disagree about the lenght of the categories.
I agree with you that 16 limit is fine for most things. But you have to consider that os5 is going out sometime this year. That means it will be mainly use next year. Yes, 16 is fine right now but will it be the same next year?

RE: reaction
bcombee @ 1/29/2002 2:59:20 PM #
Do people magically have a need for more categories just because we're in the future? Is your life going to be more complicated in 2003 so that you have a need to pick from 20 groups instead of 15?

Most people are fine with, "Home", "Business", and a few others for special activities. While computers have gotten more powerful and storage space has increased, people haven't changed that much.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead

RE: reaction
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 4:29:56 PM #
Well, we are not in the future but we talk of it: again, this OS is going to be released sometime this year. So, as I said, this os is going to be mainly used next year. This is a wish list so what's in it are PLANED features.
And I'm very happy I can have files names longer than 8.
BTW, it's not because YOU don't need it that nobody does. It's a little bit like the characters that allow to write formulas properly. It's not because you're not in science and you don't need this that nobody does.

RE: reaction
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 8:21:16 PM #
If you have to go beyond 8 or 9 categories, then you have it too complicated. Human brain isn't design to juggle too many things at the same time.

Keep it simple. That's the key for Palm and life in general.

RE: reaction
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:33:09 PM #
In addition to unlimited categories, I'd love to have sub-categories as well. Palm should add a cascading menu item to the Categories menu for each category that has a sub-category.

RE: reaction
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 4:29:57 PM #
Maybe your brain, but not mine, sorry.
Furthermore, I don't see what's complicated about having the ABILITY to have more than 8 categories?
It's still simple for the newbies or those who want it simple. But it allow power and flexibility for those who need it.

RE: reaction
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:22:54 PM #
"I think VFS does a good job."

-- only *you* do. Do you actually use it?! Do you have 1,000 DOCs in your PalmOS? No? Come back when you use the thing...

Let's Fire Up the Way Back Machine

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:13:32 PM #
Deja vu. Back in December of 1999, I wrote an article in Palmpower (http://www.palmpower.com/issuesprint/issue199912/techskeptic1299.html) listing the things that Palm should do to make the device more usable for non-power users, which is presumably their market. It's surprising to see how many of those things, still undone, are being brought up in these posts. Sigh.

- Kevin Quin

RE: Let's Fire Up the Way Back Machine
bcombee @ 1/29/2002 5:08:30 PM #
However, a few things on your list are done:

Palm m100 and refrub Visor Deluxes are both under $100.

Palm seems to have stuck as the name of the device, though PalmPilot still gets a lot of use.

Palm's ad campaign has improved a lot, if it has been scaled back some. There were plenty of nice ads over the holidays.

A sketch pad application (Notepad) is standard on all current Palm devices.

Screen technology has improved. The m100 and m500 screens have nice contrast, the IIIc was easy to read, and the m505 does a good job with its color, at least in bright light.

The only real items on your list not addressed so far are security and memo pad. Palm OS 4 made the devices less hackable, but didn't do anything about the desktop. There are sessions at PalmSource 2002 about Palm's new desktop software, including how to write your own plugins to it, and about their new security APIs in Palm OS 5, so I hope this finally addresses your issues.

Palm was in a hole with their PIM apps. They couldn't change the data formats since so many other applications relied on them to remain constant for compatibility. The 4K limit really was related to the early memory size on the original Pilot 1000 -- getting records longer than that could cause bad memory fragmentation on a 128K device.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead

Screen improvements

digilaw @ 1/29/2002 3:27:23 PM #
I have two wish items for the screen, the first is a landscape screen orientation option. The second will probably bring a bunch of "get a laptop" flames down on my head. But what I really would like is support for a larger external monitor. Have you seen the screens on those portable DVD players? I would just like OS5 to allow 3rd party manufacturers make external monitors at 640x480 resolution. I imagine a small (6"-8") flat screen monitor that has a hollow in the middle on the side where one can slide the PDA in and have almost a tablet PC. I know, I know, why don't I get a tablet PC? Even if there is one avaliable, I don't want a tablet PC I want my palm with the ability to have a bigger screen when I want it (like on the plane, at my desk, in a meeting, etc). For even simple word processing it would be such an improvement. When I am graffitting/typing a long doc a larger screen would allow me to see more of my doc and scroll quickly through it. Not to mention the huge bennifit to presentations if OS5 allows for variable video out (like to a CRT monitor as well as the 6"=8" attachment). The extreme of this would be the ability to watch movies from memory sticks without squinting and having to press my nose on the screen.

RE: Screen improvements
TDS @ 1/29/2002 10:35:41 PM #
Buy a Visor and then get Margi Systems Presentor to Go. It allows you to attach your Visor to any size display you want. Of course, it is still at 160x160...

WISH

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 3:51:13 PM #
- Better user interface and something more configurable like on pocktpc. but better:)

- Multimeda must be supported, or make a palm with and without mp3 support (short and long battery time)

- Office included and some great program like outllok too.

- BLUETOOTH!!!!

RE: WISH
digilaw @ 1/29/2002 5:18:08 PM #
I am not trying to be facecious, but it sounds like you should just get a pocket PC 2002. I agree with the bluetooth though.

RE: WISH
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 5:51:05 PM #
Because then I'd just be getting a whole new crop of problems, like a really clunky user interface and serious stability problems.

clickable web dates and addresses

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 6:12:02 PM #
Okay, I go to my local gym web site and see a schedule of classes. I click on the little Palm icon next to the calendar and the entire schedule is added to my next sync so I don't have to enter it manually. (This would be more useful if the calendar had categories.)

Or I found my doctor's address on the web, I click on an icon and poof, at my next sync, a full entry is created in my Palm.

This seems like something pretty elementary to me, why does it not exist?

RE: clickable web dates and addresses
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 6:56:40 PM #
Very nice comment. I agree that entering info should be easier.

I've often wished it was easy to enter my company phone list into my Palm and then keep it up to date.

Then, everybody in the company should also be able to take advantage of this.

RE: clickable web dates and addresses
Scott @ 1/29/2002 8:26:12 PM #
Take a look at WeSync. Also, I believe some of this may be possible with web-clipping.

Scott

RE: clickable web dates and addresses
bcombee @ 1/30/2002 1:39:16 AM #
Palm Desktop has had the ability to import comma-delimited text files into an address database for a few years. If your companies phone list is in a DB or a spreadsheet, it should be possible to export CSV, then read it into a special category using the desktop. I've done it at two different employers.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
RE: clickable web dates and addresses
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:33:39 PM #
Support for vCard / vCalendar sounds like it would solve the Gym schedule / Doctor's appointment type needs. http://www.imc.org/pdi/

What level of support do Palm Desktop versions have for vCard / vCalendar? I'm relatively new to Palms and don't run PD.

I'm thinking something like:
- drag URL to event or card info from browser to Palm Desktop icon (not running) or app workspace (app running),
- Palm Desktop prompts to retrieve
- Add / Customize / Categorize elements specific to PIM app
- Sync

Of course, the apps on the handheld itself should be able to accomplish all of this if it has wireless capability.

RE: clickable web dates and addresses
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 2:00:44 PM #
This does exist . . . sort of. . .

Check out Coola.

www.coola.com

RE: clickable web dates and addresses
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 2:57:17 PM #
RE: clickable web dates and addresses
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/4/2002 11:18:54 AM #
Syncplicity and Anagram (both for the PC) import contacts (name/addr/phone, etc), appointments, ToDos and memos moderately well. they try to interpret ordinary language, not requiring special formatting.
they're not bad--in my experience, Anagram is better. Unfortunately, nothing similar for the Mac yet. :(

vCard and vCal work with Palm Desktop, I believe

Palm's Top 10!

Manicorp @ 1/29/2002 8:03:35 PM #
Palm's success of OS 5 depends on these... IMHO :)

10. INTERNET - its communication to internet needs to be speedier. This is the wave of the future. If internet isn't a cornerstone of the next OS, it is doomed for a short life span.

9. CONNECTIVITY - palm does a pretty good job here, but its communication with other core softwares in the PC/Mac such as email, notes and contanct needs improvement. Also communication with hardwares such as a printer needs to be native.

8. EXPANSION SUPPORT - current data management, let me put it this way... it SUCKS big time... It needs major overhaul.

7. MULTI-TASKING - It needs a native support to switch from one application to another with a simple stroke. ex. Switchhack (I can't live without it)

6. SCREEN RESOLUTION - It must support a higher resolution capability such and Sony of Handera.

5. SOUND - finally it needs a true sound capability.

4. SHARING DATA - IR was useful, but new ability to share info with multiple PDA is needed. (ex. bluetooth)

3. EASY DATA INPUT - Palm made its signiture mark with grafitti. It needs some update... grafitti is still valuable, but the Thumb key of Zaurus is an interesting idea...

2. SIMPLICITY - Palm started with an idea to simply one's life by organizing their schedules and contact info's. It's future success must also be based upon its simplicity to organize.

1. OPEN SOURCE - palm surpassed the PPC because of its ability to add hacks and software to customize one's PDA!

Of course, above 10 needs to be rock stable! ;-)

Sam

RE: Palm's Top 10!
bcombee @ 1/30/2002 1:37:04 AM #
Palm already opens up most of the OS source to developers under a non-disclosure agreement, and the source to most of their applications under the standard SDK agreement. Making the whole OS open source would kill Palm's licensing revenue, plus be silly, since very, very few users want to reflash their OS, especially with one they'd have to build themselves.

CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
RE: Palm's Top 10!
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 6:11:02 AM #
I don't see why opening up the OS would be a problem.
Linux is open source, yet companies like Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake and so on make money selling it.

This also solves the OS/apps problem mentioned in a lot of posts on this page.
Palm can concentrate on making an OS with a few basic apps around it. This could then be combined with 3rd party apps and sold as a bundle. Same idea as a linux distro.
Technically able power users could easily modify this to their needs. Other users would use the default "distro" out of the box.

Forget the Microsoft bull****. Think. Why not?

Jan

Palm's top 10

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/29/2002 10:32:28 PM #
I would like the ability to record short verbal notes on the fly, when I do not have time to graffiti them in. I am surprised no one has mentioned this.

RE: Palm's top 10
TDS @ 1/29/2002 10:37:52 PM #
The new Springboard module, the Pro Record Digital Voicemodule allows you to do exactly that. It has 16MB of onboard RAM for voice dication and allows you to make verbal notes in any of the standard palm apps.
It looks far superior to the Targus voice recorder module, and that was a pretty nice unit.
Doug

RE: Palm's top 10
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:13:02 AM #
Or, Hey! Get a Handera and it's already included. Fill up a 1GB microdrive with voiced notes if you want. With a CF card reader they are easily stored and played as .wav files from your desktop. If only Handera was Palm, the future would be very bright indeed. Yes, I know it's B&W, but impressive what a small company can do with someone elses OS that Palm apparently couldn't do in the first place. I find this baffling. I may be hanging on to my HE until OS 8.

RE: Palm's top 10
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/2/2002 6:52:07 AM #
i've always found voice note recording pretty useless; I like using the Notepad prog from the m100 (i went to the effort to find it and put it on my clie). A quick jotted note takes about as much time to make, and I just hate having to listen to myself on voice notes. I'd rather spend the hardware real estate on beefing up the speaker rather than adding a mic (even my t415's speaker, which can play midis and wavs, is really wussy). But maybe that's just me...

As far as the multimedia levels go, clie's have it right, i think; and expensive model with a DSP mp3 processor onboard for multimedia enthusiasts (n760) and a cheaper, thinner model without as many media features ( t415/615, which can still play wavs and midis through an improved speaker).

I liked the handera, but the Palm III sized footprint is bigger than i like (especially cuz it's that big and still monochrome...), so I got me a t415.

Size, simplicity, size, ....

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 6:44:02 AM #
The most important attribute of palm devices is size - and anything the OS does to hnder size reduction, or simplicity is flawed.
Ideally, the devices should be PC-card sized, like the REX, before being wristwatch sized.
Then worry about functionality. But some simple things that palm just hasn't got right -
- a speaker loud enough to act as an alarm (the current one isn't)
- decent buttons (eg jog dial, gameboy-type 4-way scroll buttons)
None of this is solved by an OS of course, but the OS should have this hardware in mind, rather than keep adding new managers

RE: Size, simplicity, size, ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 8:39:04 AM #
> Ideally, the devices should be PC-card sized, like the REX, before being wristwatch sized.

I disagree. This would make the screen way too small.

RE: Size, simplicity, size, ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 9:43:16 AM #
pc card sized? that would be useless

RE: Size, simplicity, size, ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 12:17:35 PM #
A PC Card sized palm would be very nice!

This way I could keep it in my wallet, like a credit card. You only need to see the top few lines in most applications anyway, except for the month view in the Datebook, but there are other ways to work around that. Even the Rex had a month view.

If the screen had a very high dots per inch ratio, and the ability, when needed, to zoom and pan, I think Palm could make this work.

If it had built in Blue Tooth, then a wireless screen built into your glasses would give you any sized screen you wanted. This would make it possible to have a wrist watch sized palm device as well!


RE: Size, simplicity, size, ....
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 1:22:35 AM #
what are you smoking? there are physical limits (ergonomics.

Zen Of Palm no more?

BBC @ 1/30/2002 9:25:09 AM #
I don't think we should be afraid of palm making the OS more complicated. To make OS 5 more powerful will make it, by
defiantion, more complicated. I, for one, welcome that kind of complexity. I want my palm to be able
to play multi-media files, I want it to have native wireless support, I want it to have a transparent
removable media system.
Welcome the change, if it's for the better, but don't fear it just because it's different

RE: Zen Of Palm no more?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:52:41 PM #
I totally agree with you. Windows XP is VERY complicated (compared with PalmOS) but still easy to use. Complication does not equal a poor user experience just greater functionality.
If features are not added to the OS who would ever buy a new PDA?

RE: Zen Of Palm no more?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 3:41:43 AM #
This is really not very fashionable but, what the h*ll, I'll say it: There is a lot to be said for all that stuff about the Zen of Palm.

Confession: I tried Datebk4 for about a month and thought it was great. Then I tried Datebk3, which I found to be better. Then one day I went back to the native Datebook. Guess what? It is better than both of them. Why? Well, it is pretty basic, but it does all the necessary things very, very well. The other apps had tons more features, which were fun to play with for a while. Eventually, though, the novelty wore off and I got less and less use out of the sophisticated features. And I felt silly for having spent hours reading manuals to use features which didn't turn out to be of much real use. Don't get me wrong. If anyone asks me to recommend a replacement for Datebook, I'd say either Datebk3 or 4 without hesitation. I'm sure lots of people would swear by them. For me, though, they are just too much for what I need.

Palm's formula is to build something which is (a) simple, stable and capable of all the basic functions and (b) flexible enough to allow more sophisticated add-ons. It's a very clever approach and one which they should be reluctant to depart from (if they know what's good for them).

I don't begrudge you the extra features you want. Just don't make me read any more manuals, please. And don't make the wonderful PalmOS more complex for those of us who do not really need more sophisticated stuff. Life is to short.


RE: Zen Of Palm no more?
BBC @ 1/31/2002 8:04:04 AM #
I completely agree with you. The key to Palm keeping an EXTEMELY loyal base is to add more
features without creating an overly complicated OS. It's a trickey balancing act.

The best thing they could possibly do. . .

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 10:01:32 AM #
is to either emulate as closely as possible the Symbian Platform, or better yet license it. It is the most stable, elegant, and functional mobile platform out there.

RE: The best thing they could possibly do. . .
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:55:33 PM #
So you like it then?

RE: The best thing they could possibly do. . .
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:56:15 PM #
How is emulating another OS innovative in any way? Surely the best thing they could possibly do is take the best features of all the current systems, add to them and release something even better.

RE: The best thing they could possibly do. . .
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 10:05:21 AM #
Palm should worry about getting up to speed before they worry about innovating anything- multitasking/multithreading, better networking, better filesystem. The great thing about Symbian (or at least EPOC as far back as ER3) is that it does everything a PPC does, only it does it efficiently, it does it reliably, and it does it with a minimum of bloat. Just because Palm started as simple organizer doesn't mean it should limit itself to that- if you don't need a feature, don't use it. If Palm licensed the Symbian Platform for the grunt work, ported their UI to it (the EIKON UI used by EPOC was a little more flashy), and added some multimedia goodies from their BeOS acquisition, the result would be something with all the bells and whistles of a PPC and the stability that (EPOC and to a lesser extent) Palm is famous for.

It's a Palm

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 11:13:33 AM #
You sound like a very Palm savvy person, BUT: wouldn't most of those items add a lot of BLOAT to the OS??
I don't WANT a PPC -I like the lean-ness of the palm interface. OK, I agree w/ your selectable alarms & soft graffiti - but I don't even want a color screen. I use my Palm all the time for reading & word-processing and I just don't need that other stuff (or an MP3 player, or photoshop!)
All I really want... is a black-and WHITE (not Green) screen!


RE: It's a Palm
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:26:58 PM #
It's 2015 -- and while everyone else has color PDAs, you are sadly hunting for discarded monochrome ones to buy on ebay. How sad.

I disagree about the bloat. It can be done. And average users wouldn't even know about it unless they needed to. All the extras mentioned above (and in some posts) can be stuck in a "expert layer."

Expansion

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:21:17 PM #
The thing that made the Ipaq the success that it is, is the PC Card Expansion sleeve. The fact that you could use your Laptop modems and NICs, which are at a decent price point, made the device for many people.

I'm waiting for a new Clie with

320x480
soft graffiti
16-32 onboard ram
optional PC expansion sleeve with driver support

*droooooooooooool*


Unicode

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 1:46:21 PM #
The main problem with the fonts is the limited character repertoire. Unicode 2.0 (even better would be nice, but 2.0 is a good, small repertoire to start with) would be ideal. BeOS had it.

RE: Unicode
mikecane @ 1/30/2002 5:29:06 PM #
Yes! That would give us every language in the world, wouldn't it? (I did not list multilingual support.)

bull****

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 5:38:13 PM #
This wishlist is useless. Read the Palm developers guide and you understand what the palm philisophie is - to be a really fast and useable system and not a multimedia gameboy device. The palm is perfectly as it is!

RE: bull****
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 6:24:15 PM #
i couldn't agree more. i mean wake up people. palm is palm and pocket pc is pocket pc. try not to compare a pocket-sized pc with a simple organizer.

RE: bull****
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 1:06:56 AM #
I guess you two does n't own a Palm OS device. Trolls go away. We don't need you here#$%&&*

RE: bull****
BBC @ 1/31/2002 7:59:05 AM #
Yeah and the Ford Model T was fine too. Times change, technology moves along. As long as Palm
can ensure the UI isn't complicated and unusable, there is no reason the Palm shouldn't have newer
features such as multimedia.
Don't forget, Palm is fundemantly a BUSINESS. They are concened with what the market wants, and
what competition is out there. The competition today? PPC 2002. And what is prominent in PPC 2002?
Multimedia.
Do the math.
It's time to move out of the 90s.

todo list: strike though a crossed off item

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/30/2002 8:19:22 PM #
When you have the option Hide Crossed Off Items on , you see the item struck through before it dissapears, why not an option to still show it but struck through or the font changed in color.

And while were at it, individual "show"options, for each category!

RE: todo list: strike though a crossed off item
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/4/2002 4:31:35 PM #
Datebk4 does that.

Doubtful to please anyone

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/31/2002 1:32:15 AM #
In the end, there are Palm users who want MP3 and most of those things (if they haven't moved to PPC by now) and those who don't. Even the expert layer is going to make many cry bloatware (if I'm not using it, why do I have to deal with it taking up space?). The only real way to make all Palm users happy is to have 2 OSs like they should have done a long time ago. Say the m1xx series should have the 'lean' traditional PIM style OS, and m5xx should be sporting a true gaming/multimedia OS (ala PPC). You can't be too picky at this point: I waited nearly 4+ yrs for Palm to go color for us. Still waiting to get off the piezo and everything else. In the end, yes get a cheap small Sony Vaio, Palm will do it when they get around to it.
As many predict the alleged Palm S/W | H/W split will change things. Forget the hardware.. they will have to innovate to keep up with competition or be phased out (it will fix itself over time). Let the OS team work slowly, steadily, and with a shiny boot up their ***.

RE: Doubtful to please anyone
mikecane @ 1/31/2002 9:44:16 AM #
You make a good point about the "bloat" that I did not consider.

I wonder what the separate divisions will do? Clearly there is a need for these advanced features. Maybe there will be two levels of Palms? One for newbies (ie, "Classic Palm") and one for people who want more (ie, "Expert Palm")?

They cannot stay as they are with PPC circling out there. PPC will not be more expensive forever! And Gates & Co will keep hammering at it, changing it, until it's "close enough" for advanced Palmists to be tempted to take the jump...

RE: Doubtful to please anyone
Ed @ 1/31/2002 10:11:02 AM #
I've said this before but I think low-end and possibly even mid-range models will be the "Classic Palm" in the truest sense: they will still be running OS 4 for a couple of years. Most people who buy at the low-end are looking for the PIM functions and not much else. Running OS 4 on a Dragonball chip is all they need. Price is important, too. I don't think ARM-based Palms are going to be anywhere near $100 for years.

Because OS5/ARM models will still run OS4/Dragonball applications, this dichotomy of processors isn't as bad as it might seem. The platform shouldn't suffer from the PPC's long difficulties with having to be sure each app was compiled for the right processor.

---
News Editor

Preview

Edward @ 2/5/2002 4:18:25 AM #
Suprised this hasn't mad the main page yet:

http://www.palmos.com/platform/os5/

ten points to improve

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/6/2002 12:01:21 PM #
I've got number 11....

the option to putt more dan 10.000 adresses in Datebook...

gr

rw

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