Comments on: Rumor: More on the Palm m515 and m130

320x320, however, will be reason to go buy this 515 if that is the case, which we are pretty sure won't be.

- Disillusioned Palm owner (or Clie here I come)

I don't believe the picture of new m130 is REAL. It looks so fake to me especially the color of screen.
But Palm is moving on anyway. Let us say "WOW" !

What it looks like to me is the images graphic artists put together to be shown on Palm's site. None of these are actual photos of handhelds; they are all composite shots with the screens taken from something like POSE. This is because it's almost impossible to get a good photo of a handheld's screen. I know; I've tried and failed many times.

Of course, someone not working for Palm could have done the same thing. But PDAGeek's source has come through in the past with info that has turned out to be correct.

---
News Editor

One can still easily find Palm IIIc models for less than $300.- on the net (not from Palm.com) For example, $213 from BuyDig.com or $239 from Compu AMerica.

The PalmM505 can even be had for $315, which could fall within your $300. range again (again buydig.com)

Of course you can also get refurnished units, including a SOny N610 for $323.

Considering Palm sends refurbushed units to users who have had problems (e.g. battery).

All it takes is a tiny bit of research (try http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/0-205442-301-0-0.html?tag=st.sh.1257.dir.list-205442) before you make statements like 'there are no color products in the $300 price range right now'.

The image definately has some jpg artifacting, but that only means it was compressed too far. As for the screen not looking totally right, there's *no way* to get an accurate picture of the actual display because it's just not possible.

By the way, why don't you tell me a used T615c is $300?

There are no legitimate color handhelds that are $299 and yet provides standard expansion capabilities, including Sd & UC. This price is okay for first time users who demand a color screen, and suited for those who owned a m10x series who want to upgrade right now.

By the way, you could buy the rumored m130 less than $300. That's for sure, if there is really a m130 coming.

So you are saying the Handspring Prism with 65k colors has less colors than any other Color Palm?

So the Springboard accesory allowing CF card as expansion capability is not a standard one ?

Gimme a break

Do you research before you speak out. Don't tell me there is a special somewhere that the Prism with some springboard device is on special for $300.

No nO NO, you are wrong, that's not the case for a used T615c, It's the price for a USED M505/M515.

Don't try to put words into my mouth. And I really don't know where do you get this idea.

If you are jealous that your company cannot manufacture a unit like m130, please go home and tell your boss.

M130:
Color
Meomory Expansion (SD)
UC

All Handspring handhelds have no standard memory expansion capabilities.

So only SD is a standard memory expansion capability and CF is not ?

Get it?

capability talks about being able to have it. With a Springboard, one is able to have "it". This That brings the total price to 308 (260 + 48 for the springboard) which by normal people's standard 'falls in the range of $300.-" - your words

Wake up. If it is $308 (a Prism plus module), the m130 will also be available somewhere on the net for $260. It is useless to compare street price with retail price. Don't forget that only the Americans will benefit from these low prices. The Asians, Europeans, Austrialians, Africans and even the Canadians can not easily find devices substantially cheaper than MSRP.

You got a good deal with $308 for a Prism plus module. By saying this, will that make you happier?

By the way, a Prism plus module is also substantially bigger the m130. So the unit is more subtantial and it is a better deal because you got more volume and weight, according to general law of Physics. The more the better.

Europeans / Asians typically do not even get to pay the US MSRP, so you cannot even bring this into the equation now as it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Would a Prism/Springboard make me happy ? No way. Neither would the M130 for that matter...

But fact remains that, against what you said, their is a product out there within the $300 range with standard expansion capabilities, whether you like it or not. Some people may prefer the Prism others will prefer the M130 and yet others will prefer neither (like me).

capability talks about being able to have it. With a Springboard, one is able to have "it". This That brings the total price to 308 (260 + 48 for the springboard) which by normal people's standard 'falls in the range of $300.-" - your words"

Capability talks about being able to have it. That's right. You are also CAPABLE to win a Handspring Prism for free. But the chance is just slim.

You could also win a Handspring Prism for free also. The chance is very slim though, whether you like it or not.

Yes, it is legitimate for anyone to get a Handspring Prism for $1 plus S/H on ebay. That's against what your said. The Prism is in the range of $10 for a color handheld. Does that makes your statement stupid?

For the last two posts, I just tried acting like Palm bashers and talked the way they talked. Being ignorant yet saying something that is not related at all. Throw in any possibility of more than 0% and assume it is 100%.

It is too difficult to think and act like a basher. Life is too difficult over there.

^_^

I believe that it is in your best interest to know that an updated version of the m505 is coming out in the next few months. This might cause you to hold off buying an m505. Palm won't be happy about that but you will and so will all the users like you.

Palm has a website with only the information Palm wants you to know. It's www.Palm.com We aren't a mouthpiece for Palm. We're trying to look out for you.

In the long run, I think this will help Palm and the rest. If you bought an m505 today not knowing about the new model and the m515 came out in 6 weeks or so, you'd probably be pretty mad. At Palm. Angry customers aren't what any company wants.

---
News Editor

Well done , Ed , we all support you and appreciate your effort ! Good job !!

_________
Paul C.

But anyways, that is good to see because it proves that Palm handhelds and PIC are more popular. Palm-bashers just cannot stand that.

lol

Actually, I have been holding on to dollars accumulated over the holidays (in lieu of receiving gifts--to my wife's dismay!) for the precise purpose of purchasing the next, best handheld to appear. I'm tired of waiting. On the other hand, I don't want to miss something that's only days from introduction (although I suppose if carried too far, no one would buy anything; technology is always improving, changing.

The question is, if one can hardly wait any longer to make that PDA purchase, what's available NOW and might there be anything else available SOON that would be worth waiting just a bit longer for?

I currently own a Vx. I've been looking closely at reviews of the 615 and visited a Best Buy to actually handle one. I've also had my eyes open, for months, on that Linux-based Zaurus SL5500, which is yet to be released to nondevelopers. Having had the V and now the Vx, however, I'm used to that form factor. My feeling is that if I can't carry my PDA with me ALL THE TIME, it's not the right PDA for me. The Vx is perfect size-wise. I think the Zaurus would be too big to carry without a belt clip, but man, what specs it has!!!!

The 615 would be perfect in size, but I have a Nikon 950 digital camera which doesn't take Sony's proprietary Memory Sticks. So I'd prefer something using different storage media than Sony's. But that won't keep me away from the 615. A HandEra 330-type set-up with a color screen and smaller form factor (asking a lot, I know) would be ideal: virtual Graffiti area, high res, dual memory slots, hopefully 16 megs--AER YOU READING THIS HANDERA???????? I've read
some rumors about some new LCD technology you're associated with, HandEera, but like with Palm's 515, my patience has almost run out. Almost.

Since I'm an Apple customer, even more perfect (I guess that's impossible) would have been if Apple would have actually introduced their own mini-Newton-like PDA, rumored but then proved false. THAT was a disappointment.

What else is there? If Acer would come out with a color version with better-than-a-Palm 505 screen readability (yes, it's subjective), I'd probably go for that.(Have you seen pictures of the monochrome Acer? Most intriguing.)

I "said" all that to say this: Instead of going out to buy the Sony 615 model, I'm going to force myself to hold off just a bit longer to see if the m515 is actually released "soon." If not: Sony T615c: I'll be on on my way!

And that's why, Ed, I'm, glad you placed that "rumor" on your site. Believe me, it is MOST useful to know, to consider, to hope.

offtopic for a sec does anyone have and OBD2 interface programs for the palm os?

Noctrop_d@yahoo.com

"Experince keeps a dear school but fools will learn in no other" - Ben Franklin.

If leaked information was the concern for Palm, they should have ways of dealing with that themselves.

That said Palm has learned from their mistakes and with the i705 had a large number in retail when they announced and I suspect large numbers of m130's and m515's ALREADY in stores when the official announcement comes down.

But anyway, keep up the good work . . . :D

***

Let me guess: You're a Palm dork... I mean employee working in the marketing department.

Go take a hike. I'm not here to save your sorry company. If you come out with a good product, I'll buy it. If not, I'm not one of those lemmings buying cr*p products.

TANX.

-- quote of the day!

Take cars, people buy the outgoing model knowing it will be another year older almost immediately. Why? It is cheaper by thousands of dollars. Make sense.

Guess what I have an M505, I had the memory doubled to 16MB (don't tell me about warranty), so far no issues. Besides given the failure rate of M505's outh there I am the lucky 1% with none. Brighter screen and 16MB of memory. I will wait for OS5, better screen (maybe not Palm) and more memory than 16MB (again maybe not Palm). But I like inside info on the Palm market, that's why I read PIC. It is a must read site period.

You don't like, go hand out with SONY, and when they drop you unit and the support for it go have fun.

One last comment, the only really stupid thing Palm does (besides their Tech Support) is keep making the older units instead of moving people up the product line. I don't mean don't support the product, they should, but stop making the IIIc and move people to the new ones.

Is this worth spending another $400 if you already own a M505 ? IMHO no.
Will there be a lot of people buying this M515 ? Absolutely yes.

Companies want support. They may not get it from Sony, They may have already invested in peripherals for the M50x series and stick to Palm to enable their users to utilise these peripherals.

There are many compelling reasons for many people to buy the Palm instead of the Sony, whether Sony Lovers/Palm haters like it or not. (OK Sony lovers, this is the time where you start the obligatory bashing...)

And don't get me started on the 615's stylus. Yuck!!

-------
And don't get me started on the m505 screen. *I* can always use another stylus, what can you do about the screen?

- Disillusioned Palm owner

Stylus?

You mean that toothpick?! I think Sony forgot that the device is intended for adults not todlers.

Its a good example how some people put style ahead of function and end up looking silly...

On the other hand, this is a Palm news item -- isn't there room for all of us to be happy about this? I use Sony, but if Palm isn't strong then neither is the Clie.

Here's a prediction: The m130 will be a runaway hit. And that's a very good thing.

So you mean "M100's case + M505's screen" !!? Oh,that sucks If they do so.

Let me also state that my thoughts are pure speculations inspired by sugar. The main point is... what is the part we are not seeing? what drives palm to do what it does? Everyone is screaming for them to innovate, but they only seem to renovate. My question is why do they do what they do? I only offer a wacked out solution. =)

I think you raise a good question. For $300 a 505 screen wouldn't be all bad. The m100 series may have a smaller screen, but the body is big enough to accomodate a larger screen.

OTOH, I doubt Palm has that serious an inventory backlog, and the image does not look like the screen has gotten any larger on the m130.

I think there are a lot of things we will never understand about the decisions Palm makes, and I'm not going to attempt to defend them. But I also don't think they spend all day whamming their heads against their desks in a deliberate attempt to "get more stupider" and ram the company into the ground. I think that there are probably numerous compelling reasons why they are forced to make some of the lame decisions they make. We despair on the outside, it may be even more painful on the inside where the whole story is known.

For example, all communications devices, even when "renovated" slightly must go through months of extensive FCC testing. That is why, once Palm got started, it was hard to make fix some of the serious deficiencies in the i705. I think they would have if they could have, but they started its development over a year ago, and back then monchrome and 8 MB were still going pretty strong.

If the unit is faulty due to some mechancial fault and being sent it for repair or even to exchange for a new unit (under warranty), the spolit handheld's parts will be tested if it is damaged if not. Those good ones are put into individual refurnished component boxes to be recycled again for other handheld sent it to be replaced of some parts.

Boy, the trolls are thick today, aren't they? :) By your reasoning, last year's cars are 'crap' because the current models only offer minor improvements over them.

In general, there are people that just like Palm better. Others prefer Sony, PPC, or whatever. Is that so hard to understand ? Isn't availability of choice a wonderful thing ?

Wouldn't it be boring if all you could buy are blue Yugo's with standard 11" wheels?
Or everyone wears the nice same blue clothes and have the same haircuts (China-History!)?
Or all you could watch on TV is PBS?
Or all you could read is one, totally biased newspaper?
Or all you could eat is broccoli with rice, every darn day ?

_______
Larry the Tomato

"Why would anyone buy an M515 with its grainy low res screen isntead of the Clie T615c with its gorgeous screen and real speaker?"

Perhaps the same thing that cause the 505 to ooutsell any Sony model by a WIDE margine. Even with its pathetically dim screen, by itself it likely sells as much as all Sony models combined.

The BIGGEST deterent to buying the 505 has been its dim screen. MANY people myself included who chose Sony would have bought the Palm instead if its screen werent so dark.

SALES 505 winning already over anything Sony has.
The IMPROVED 515 will continue to win.

Thats the only WINNING that matters.

That's flat out not true. Since SONY changed the serial connector, there are almost
no accessories for the T series. How about pen/stylus that fits in the stylus
slot? No.

Palm = 42.6% of all Handheld sales
Sony = not even on the map (i.e. numbers too low to include in IDC's sales numbers.)

Palm = Very strong corporate/enterprise market presence
Sony = Not even on the map

Palm = customer service runs circles around sony's
Sony = customer NoService (as Clark Howard would say)

Palm = Universal connector, many accessories such as keyboards, styli, modems, mmc/sd ,GPS, Bluetooth, cases, etc.
Sony = change in connector with every new pda, no aftermarket accessories, very few and expensive Sony accessories, memory stick will fade like BetaMAx, etc.

I'd keep going but you see my point. For every argument you sony people make, there's an equally compelling counter-argument to be made on behalf of Palm.

So why don't you go to your Sony chat room and brag all you want and leave us Palm "Lovers" to enjoy and discuss our choice for PDA.

Some of the assertions above (the ones prior to my parenthetical remarks) strike me as just plain erroneous. But that's just my view.

Peace,

bradleyboy

Please stop posting to PIC. It's people like you who ruin EVERY discussion board on the news articles here.

Even Sony owners such as myself are tired of it. I used to own an m505; I now own a N610C. I got the 610 because I really like the Hi-Res and the Jog Dial. I miss the form factor, buttons, and overall look of the 505, but I still like the 610. I won't get a 515, but I can easily see why someone would, and it's NOT that they're brain-dead, stupid, or "uneducated." They prefer it. YOU deal with that.

Before long, a**holes like yourself will bash fellow Clie users like me, who see no compelling reason to move from the 610 to the 615. "But the 615 is so superior, yada, yada, yada..." you and your pea-brain "Sony is king" parrot complex will espouse.

Please leave.

The trouble with that statement is that no one but HandEra knows how many they've sold. IDC referred to retail sales. That's not how HandEra has sold the bulk of their two models.

With the other companies you can still determine their total sales, including the web sales, and other direct to customer avenues because they're public companies and the shareholders demand to know the numbers. HandEra, unlike Sony, Palm, and HandSpring is not a public company, and thus beholden to no one. So neither you nor IDC can postulate with any credibility how many units they have or have not sold since 1999.

Everyone assumes they can accurately state the percentage of the PDA market that the PalmOS holds, but in the mean time, HandEra and Symbol is selling bulk orders hand over fist to enterprise and medical purchasers, as well as direct phone and web sales, that nobody's counting.

However if there are any factors that are not technology related (color, form factor, stylus...etc) then go with your heart and buy Palm.

Isn't this really simple?

2.
Who says there is no aftermarket accessries for Clies? There are toms of them!!

3.
I don't see any significant improvement in any Palm device within 1 year.

I have recommended the Clie to purchasers, but I'm kind of put off by some of the posts here. It's to the point where if the Sony was exactly what I needed, I would still look for an alternative device just to avoid association with the group.

I know that these posters are in a minority, number-wise, and that a lot of Sony users are courteous and professional... but sometimes it's had to tell because the ones that are not, seem to be the most vocal.

The largest software giant on earth has been trying to kill anything running Palm OS, and they have not been able to succeed. However, they must gain some satisfaction from watching us throw rock at each other.

Formfactor ?
- Palm 515 without a case wins. With a case, Handera!
Customer Support / Service ?
- Handera. Very responsive. Palm is close though.
Company Issue PDA/Corporate Purchases/standardisation?
- Handera on all three.
Different Buttons ?
- Handera! Very good!
Available Accesories ?
- Handera! Any Palm III accessory!
non-Memory Stick device ?
- Handera. Twice! (SD/CF)
Stylus ?
- Handera? Same as Palm III.
Nevertheless good enough colors (for enough people)?
- Sony. Now if Handera had color...
People just don't know there is a Sony PDA ?
- I don't buy this. Just walk into a BestBuy, then claim you don't know about Sony.

Just have to throw another POV into the mess!

Have fun!
-- Paul (Anxiously awaiting a color Handera to replace my HE330.)

Clie maybe good for someone but not everyone, same goes to Palm models. Everyone has his/her choices.

Ed, thanks for the scoop. The m515 sounds like a winner to me, even though I've never been a fan of color screens.

That said, of course this could be a fake. But like I said before, Joel has has had leaked pictures in the past that turned out to be real.

---
News Editor

You hit the nail right on the head. The m505 has been out since last spring and OS 5 handhelds won't be out until this fall. 18 months is too long to go without refreshing your flagship model. But Palm's not going to redesign it from the ground up. There a huge paradigm shift coming with OS 5. The idea is to tide the users over until then.

p.s. Oh my God, I can't believe I used "paradigm shift" in a sentence. I've been talking to the marketing types too much. Someone please kill me!

---
Larry

Oh, yeah. Nothing. Typical.

Doug - Proud Visor Prism owner.

_________
Paul C.

Noctrop_d@yahoo.com

much better thant he m130

now if it does have integrated BT...there will be no doubt that i am moving. i like the possiblites of persuading my freinds to getting a pone or pda with BT once i show them how i can sync with my computer while the PDA is on the other side of my bedroom.
~twizza

Really? only $250. Why is it so cheap? I may just have to buy today.

- David

but.. why is it so cheap? because the N610C is discountinued and replaced with the new T-615.. that's why.

***

Been there. Done it.
You're a good person for doing it.

I bought the original Palm and upgraded right through the Palm Vx. So, you late comers don't even try to critique me. While YOU people were using day planners and pieces of 3M sticky notes, I had the original Palm. So sue me.

I joined the dark side because Palm wasn't innovating, I love my Jornada 568. I have a 256 MB Compact Flash card I bought for $68 !!! Yeah, try that with an SD card. Oh, I forgot. The manufacturers and OEMers only announced a 256 MB card but it isn't even sold. I love the color and clear type. I read plenty of ebooks and will never go back to b&w. Also, the storage capabilities are fantastic. I now have an all-in-one device which I can use to listen to audio books (audible.com), read ebooks (I have Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Peloponnesian Wars, Moby Dick, Stephen King books), listen to MP3s (no, I don't listen to music, I listen to Old Time Radio [otr] and listen to the SHADOW and other classics), and play Gameboy/Gameboy Color games at full speed, color, and sound.

And before you people run your mouth off, I still have my Palm Vx and use it every now and then. I wish the best to Palm and company, but I'm not impressed. Not impressed at all by what I'm seeing.

good luck

I only wish the M130 had dual slots, 320 by 320, and 16 meg. Sound would be a nicer plus, but that set of features in the Palm M100 size would really get me to part with some real money.

Hope they don't keep me waiting until this Fall. By then I could probably get a PPC2002 model for that $300 and keep my PPC software.

According to the early reports/rumors, the m515 will be Bluetooth ready, right out of the box. You'll have no need for the sd card.

Peace,

bradleyboy

OK, Plam does have VERY VERY GOOD STYLUS !! It costs you $400 bucks !! BTW, SD sucks,it's expensive and rare , MS ,on the contrary,is cheap and definitely will be the standard.

Just imagine hotsyncing without using a cradle, or printing to a printer without hooking into any cables or standing directly in front of it for infrared, or being online through your bluetooth enabled cell phone which sits comfortably in your briefcase, or going up to a vending machine or payphone and paying with your pda, and on and on.

The possibilities with bluetooth are literally endless.......

Why would MS ever be a standard? it's just a way for sony to get in the memory-based media market! and you have to pay sony to make the media it self, and to make devices that use it. and so what if SD is rare? cant the m series devices use MMC cards? those are pretty common, i see em @ wal-mart, sam goody, sears, almost everywhere. and MS is pretty expensive, too. supposedly it's slower than SD too, but i dont know anything about that.

How much do you need to pay Sony to make MS card?

I don't think there is much difference now.

And many people are using Sony's cameras ( they
have the #1 market share for last year). So it
is chearper for those people to use MS and share
photos too.

MS is becoming a standard as Sony is the #1 market
leader in digital camera.

ted

I have to disagree with the reading comment, I have over 40 books and 5 reference sets, and I did not like the text on the Clie.

Agree on the hi res, it does look good for photos, but that's based on your preferences: The Clie will be brighter with more detail, but the Palm will have more accurate colors.

Different Palm devices have different form factors. Therefore, even if the connector is the same, because the varying size and shape of Palm devices means that not all peripherals will connect with all them.

universal connector peripheals don't enclose the palms, so you can use them in all of them. palm is doing is best to make all peripheals fit into all devices. with your idea, the UC would be totally useless.