Comments on: Palm and FTC Reach Settlement on Ads

Recently, the Federal Trade Commission complained that some of Palm's ads didn't make clear enough that the features being advertised were available on some, but not all, of its handhelds. Palm and the FTC have announced a proposed settlement today. There are no fines or other punishments leveled against Palm. The company has agreed to "disclose, clearly and conspicuously, when consumers have to buy add-ons in order to perform advertised functions", and that's all.
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SUP.

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 4:13:08 PM #
OMG! I can't believe we @ Palm lied! It wasn't really a lie, just a slight misconception! Come on!

-Palm Dude.

RE: SUP.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 4:33:31 PM #
ohhhh.... c'mon, only stupid people believe Ad campaigns anyway... rule of thumb, check before you buy... same as computers

RE: SUP.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 4:45:40 PM #
I guess that's the reason why we see "Batteries sold separatly" all over ads, if your product requires an addon (even batteries) to perform a certain function you need to tell your customers.

RE: SUP.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 4:46:09 PM #
Sounds like a complaint that RIM would make against Palm, given that the i705 competes against the BlackBerry devices now.

RE: SUP.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 8:32:00 PM #
But for Palm newbies, this is a different story. For example, my brother bought a M130 for his girl friend, and later he asks me about how to connect to the internet with it because the box said it is "internet ready(?)" or something similiar...

RE: SUP.
peter167 @ 3/6/2002 10:13:53 PM #
Most PCs are Internet ready, but you have to have an account (e.g. AOL) first.

Most cars are ready, but engines will not start without gasoline. The ads did not tell me.

The XP ads shows me that someone can fly, but I hope so.

The Nissan Altima showed me I can chase the sunset, which means the car is really fast (indeed it is, but not as fast as the earth is rotating.)

The claim for Palm.net service is required for i705 to surf the net is even crazy. Does anyone tell me I have to subscribe to a plan for my cell-phone? Otherwise, I might not be able to call someone?

FTC are just being too picky here.


******************
Lie is the future.

RE: SUP.
peter167 @ 3/6/2002 10:20:19 PM #
It is the Maxima, indeed.

******************
Lie is the future.
RE: SUP.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 11:04:39 PM #
"Most PCs are Internet ready, but you have to have an account (e.g. AOL) first."

The word internet ready means everything you need for internet is in the bundle, that includes a computer with ethernet or Modem card, so all you do is plug a phone line in then there'll be setup wizards to help you do the rest. If you sell a computer wthout modem or Ethernet card then claims it's internet ready then it's a flat out lie.

"Most cars are ready, but engines will not start without gasoline. The ads did not tell me."

Because that is common sense, but if you sell a product that's not as common as car you need to tell people that you need a certain thing(s) to get it to work, even as popular Gameboy because it's not common sense that Gameboy needs batteries, they always need to have the "Batteries sold separately" label somewhere.

"The XP ads shows me that someone can fly, but I hope so."

OMFG any normal human being will know XP won't make you fly. but palm's commercials are illustrating things that is doable, and ppl will think "Cool, palm can do that" without knowing that they need to add another few hundred bucks to buy a cellphone.

RE: SUP.
jjsoh @ 3/6/2002 11:28:07 PM #
Quote:

------------------------------
"The XP ads shows me that someone can fly, but I hope so."

OMFG any normal human being will know XP won't make you fly. but palm's commercials are illustrating things that is doable, and ppl will think "Cool, palm can do that" without knowing that they need to add another few hundred bucks to buy a cellphone.
------------------------------

With the exception of REALLY imaginative children, just like normal people, the poster knows XP will not make you fly (at least I hope that's the case ^_^).

Though his statements seem exaggeratedly absurd, he's just citing examples to illustrate a point. Personally, I don't know how misleading these ads were, but Palm is not the first to have the FTC breathing down their backs.

Microsoft and HP got a head start this time last year with false advertising (their 2nd charge) concerning PocketPC's:

http://www.pdabuzz.com/News/viewnews.cgi?newsid983208828,1543,

It's all business. (Some just more underhanded than others.)

RE: SUP.
jjsoh @ 3/6/2002 11:45:27 PM #
Please copy and paste the link that I posted above; otherwise you'll be directed to some story about Intel Celeron CPU and Win CE. The auto-linking on this site is apparently not perfect :P

(Sorry Ed, I know you want us to use ashorterlink, but I'm just being lazy)

www.pdabuzz.com/News/viewnews.cgi?newsid983208828,1543,

Deceptive Ads? Yes Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 1:00:19 AM #
Lets call a spade a spade.
Palm did make deceptive ads, they did mislead the buying public. They alleged and implied thay they had capabilities the Palm units do not have out of the box.
Have you ever noticed that ads never ever imply that the product has fewer capabilities than they actually do.
How strange that these errors in judgement, these misperceptions only add to the revenue the company makes.
Yes Microsoft was caught in the same lie.
Its too bad the penalties arent enough to think they wont do it again.

RE: SUP.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 8:29:02 AM #
"Have you ever noticed that ads never ever imply that the product has fewer capabilities than they actually do."

I don't agree. Not in Palm's case, anyway. Until very recently, Palm had done a pathetic job of advertising the capabilities of the devices they sell. When I bought my first Palm a couple years ago I thought I was buying an "organizer". A week later, thanks to sites like PIC, I had all but abandoned my pc.

I'm not sure Sony has done any better. Looking at the box my year-old Clie came in all it says is "Personal Entertainment Organizer". If that's all my Clie did, organize my "personal entertainment", I'd chuck it in the trash can.

RE: SUP.
Ed @ 3/7/2002 9:05:08 AM #
> Microsoft and HP got a head start this time last year with false advertising

I know, that's why there's a paragraph talking about the H-P/Microsoft case in the article and a link at the end to the full story. Please tell me you guys read the articles you write comments on.

Sorry, you hit on a pet peeve of mine.

---
News Editor

RE: SUP.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 9:23:01 AM #
Isn't it great the FCC has time to go after long standing companies with good reps, and yet diet ads, work out equipment and grow bigger brests ads are one every 2 minutes and they can't do a thing about it.

FTC went after Microsoft and HP about a year ago
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 9:41:13 AM #
It seems that this kind of news is new to a lot of people.....

The FTC went after Microsoft and HP about a year ago for misleading statements of their own regarding wireless Internet access.

FTC charges false advertising against HP and Microsoft
February 26, 2001

FTC filed a false advertising charge against Microsoft in a year over their now defunct "Can your Palm do that?" advertising campaign. The previous FTC action was not related to Microsoft's Pocket PC product. The FTC claimed that Microsoft and HP used false and deceptive advertising when claiming that Palm users had to pay extra to make their Palm devices wireless capable while in very fine print at the bottom mentioning that Palm's "new line" can do wireless out of the box.

RE: SUP.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 11:10:33 AM #
"Isn't it great the FCC has time to go after long standing companies with good reps, and yet diet ads, work out equipment and grow bigger brests ads are one every 2 minutes and they can't do a thing about it."

LoL I know for a fact that those bigger breast things works, but it just shrunks back if you stop taking for a while, But really don't know how those bigger penis things work though :P

It this stupid time or what?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 4:31:42 PM #
I could be convinced about packaging for the Palm V/III/m50x/whatever, but the fact that the Palm VII/VIIx/705 need to use the Palm.Net service to connect to the net is "deceptive"? My government dollars are being spent to make sure that Palm uses a bigger typeface to say "Palm.Net(tm) service plans start at $9.99/month"? (quoting from the box on my Palm VII). I can sleep easier at night now... (YEESH!)

I can kinda see the point...

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 5:09:50 PM #
Sure, I do my research before buying a new product, but Palm's been making a pretty general claim that you can use their products to make wireless connections to the Internet. Fact is, in the US, this isn't really possible ... there aren't many US-based cell phones that are supported by Palm PDAs and those that could do not come with PDA support from their wireless providers. Aside from i705 and VIIx users, are there really that many people who use their Palm to access the 'net? If so, tell me how I can do it with Cingular ... I've been trying to get access for over a year! :)

Minstrel Modem!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 5:37:15 PM #
Minstrel Modem has no wires.

And, a Palm combined with a cell phone CAN connect to the Internet. I have seen a Palm Vx with the Mobile Internet Kit connect via IR to a Nokia Phone as the modem.

RE: I can kinda see the point...
AzureGuy @ 3/6/2002 9:42:20 PM #
Okay, I have been using my Nokia 3360 to connect to the internet (well, up until my mom got cable internet :) You need to have a dial-up ISP to use the internet, your phone must either have a)IR port, b)data capable and you need a special cable. You must also be sure your cellular company supports data capable phones (making data calls). I had to dance through a few hoops just to get my carrier to believe me what my phone was capable of, they apparently hadn't been briefed (or read a manual) that my phone is able to act like modem. I called up Nokia to verify that the manual was correct, and they didn't know either... So, after all of my bad customer support, I finally got the problem solved. Oh, and if the phone you want has a IR port chances are it WILL work with a palm, I've learned that most sales people (yes I know this has been said before, but I have to reiterate)DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Get them to crack open the box, or even better download the manual before you purchase, they are a lot more helpful.

Have Fun!

* * *
HOW TO GET BLUETOOTH ON A UNSUPPORTED HANDHELD: Take a pair of pliars, place them around the nearest available tooth, pull, paint it blue, glue it to your handheld

RE: I can kinda see the point...
AzureGuy @ 3/6/2002 9:50:15 PM #
Oh, I forgot to mention, if you have OS 3.5 you can connect to the internet using a browser (avantgo) without the Mobile Internet Kit.

* * *
HOW TO GET BLUETOOTH ON A UNSUPPORTED HANDHELD: Take a pair of pliars, place them around the nearest available tooth, pull, paint it blue, glue it to your handheld
RE: I can kinda see the point...
madhatter @ 3/6/2002 11:10:59 PM #
"If so, tell me how I can do it with Cingular ... I've been trying to get access for over a year! :)"

I have connected with Cingular wireless ( in Texas) by using my 3360 infrared and Palm 505. If you call and ask for Internet access from Cingular ( an additional 5.00 per month) you can use the 3360 as the modem. Turn on the infrared on the phone and then on your 505 go to the preferences icon and tap the network. Complete the service information for your existing ISP and then under the connection drop down, tap IR to phone.

One warning.. this can eat the heck out of your airtime minutes.


A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

RE: I can kinda see the point...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 11:13:35 PM #
I guess it should be

Oh, you don't know avantgo has been around ever since palmpilot pro, so you don't really need palm OS 3.5. That is not internet, that's an offline browser. can you do any asp calls, CGI calls in avantgo ?? no then what kind of internet is that, I can't even search things in it.

RE: I can kinda see the point...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 3:35:59 AM #
There are several 'online' browsers available. The best is handsprings blazer, which can even give you color graphics (if yr device has that) and does a really good job of reformatting the pages (html) into a long, scrollable colomn. Pocket IE for PPC doesn't even do this as well as Blazer does - you have to scroll horizontally and vertically when view pages not formatted for PDAs, which is confusing and annoying. Blazer also deals with frames by letting you switch between them. I expect - with faster ARM based Palm OS 5 devices coming out - that flash support will make its way to Palm like it has PPC.

RE: I can kinda see the point...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 7:23:19 AM #
I have cingular, and had to pay the $5 a month, but dropped it because all the options were adding up. However, my friend has the same 3360 phone on the same 39.99 plan, and he doesn't have to pay...beats me why. Cingular really doesn't have their act together though, everytime I make a data call, it shows up on my bill as a 411 call. They were going to stop refunding them until I asked them how I could talk to information for over an hour (were they reading me an encyclopedia back?!)

Off topic? Yeah!

The Bible says he who has no sin, cast the first stone.

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 5:47:24 PM #
Looks like our boys at Palm aren't so pure and innocent after all. First they get sued by Pilot Pen for stealing their name, then by Xerox for stealing Graffiti, and now the FTC for deceptive advertising. I love it. Palm is no more ethical than is MSFT - MSFT just happens to be much more richer and much more smarter - which makes them a bigger and better target. When you bring big government into business against your competitor, be prepared for it to come after you next to feed its voracious appetite.

RE: The Bible says he who has no sin, cast the first stone.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 6:26:13 PM #
"MSFT just happens to be much more richer and much more smarter"

Richer, yes. Smarter? I don't think so. Take a look at the deposition transcripts from top togs Ballmer and Allchin ( http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/legalnews.asp ). These guys come off like morons! They don't even know what's going on in their own departments, and in some cases, which products they've released. It'd be hilarious reading if it weren't so pathetic.

RE: The Bible says he who has no sin, cast the first stone.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 6:31:33 PM #
> Richer, yes. Smarter? I don't think so.

Regardless, his point is still valid: you can't have your cake and eat it too. Trying to use the gov't to get rid of competition and then having it come back and bite you in the *&! has a certain justice to it.

It is an age old scam dating back to the Railroad days in the Wild West, and MSFT is just the latest victim, with Palm, Netscape, etc., being the ones hitting below the belt.

Don't get me wrong, I like Palm's products, but I say shame on them for jumping on the "let's use the gov't to get MSFT" bandwagon.

RE: The Bible says he who has no sin, cast the first stone.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 6:36:29 PM #
Smarter, yes! Everyone plays dumb when in trouble...

"Oh, sorry officer. I did not know the speed limit was 25MPH"

RE: The Bible says he who has no sin, cast the first stone.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 7:59:36 PM #
The Bible also says, "You shall reap what you sow." I hope Sun and Oracle are next!

Not Pilot
Quik_Fix @ 3/7/2002 12:13:59 AM #
Pilot Pens never sued; they threatened to. Palm cooperated

...In accordance with the prophecy...

Quik_Fix
quikfix@hotmail.com

RE: Sin all you want, we'll make more.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 9:11:18 AM #
MS broke the law, just ask Allchin.

"Allchin admitted to lawyers for the states that Microsoft violated the law but refused to specify the violations."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/industry/03/05/microsoft.states.ap/index.html

Don't come crying to those of us who tried to get the Microsoft Monopoly to play nice with the industry it has enslaved when you're forced to pony up money to start your device, and again for every application (oops sorry OS feature) you wish to run on your computer, and again for every byte that passes through the MS Networking protocol, and again per use of the only MS-allowed implementation of the federally-mandated encryption protocols.

Federal intervention is vital when it is plain that this organization has reneged on its prior settlements and obliterated competitors by leveraging their monopoly-level OS market share. The small business is not to be treated the same as the Fortune 100 business.

If you think software is expensive now. Just wait. No amount of levitation or flight granted by the use of Windows will let you get away from it.

Be aware Car Manufacturers

peter167 @ 3/6/2002 6:08:04 PM #
Next time, when you have ads, please make a disclaimer to inform potential buyers that gasoline is required (at extra charge) to start your engine. Copyright 2002.

******************
Lie is the future.
RE: Be aware Car Manufacturers
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 10:16:23 PM #
If you look at the brochure of all new cars, the fact that you need to add gasoline is actually there.

RE: Be aware Car Manufacturers
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 11:34:26 PM #
In the car brochure or manual? Big difference you know.

Funny and quite Droll

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 7:44:45 PM #
It's quite funny that you elitists make fun of this but in other avenues of life you people make the same mistakes as the less-tech-savvy majority.

For example, many of you clowns have bought annuities and other crap plans from MetLife. Let's hear it: you bought into their marketing lies and the agent got you to sign a nice premium for an annuity for Kiddie's college fund. Well, if you clowns knew some basic math you could set up your own annuities without paying some other clown to manage it.

Thanx.

RE: Funny and quite Droll
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/6/2002 10:03:24 PM #
Okay ... this comment was constructive. Thanks!

Why are you people so sore??

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 3:02:38 AM #
The fact is that Palm does not include enough information in their add and the quote was 5-0 that Palm was wrong on this, Palm also admit it and make correction, I understand some people stand for and speak for palm, but why can't you just take the fact?

Not everybody is a techie to know everything about PDA, most people just go to BestBuy and look at what the box says, I bet there are less than 20% of customers actually KNOW an additional device is required when they see "Internet capability" on the box of palm device. This is Palm's responsibility to make it clear on the add.

Think about this, you are not a computer geek, you don't know much about it, you walk into a computer store and buy a computer which the ad says "This computer is capable for DSL / cable modem connection"

It turns out the fact is you need to purchase a network card which is NOT included in the computer, The ad says that just because it has the PCI slot which can let you put a network card in. Will you be pi**ed off and think that the ad mislead you?


Just want to be fair here, I tend to agree that this is Palm's fault. When the feature does not come with the original device, they should make it clear.

RE: Why are you people so sore??
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 8:24:26 AM #
Yep, the words 'capable' and 'ready' are quite different, if you know enough about the devices.

Just being sneaky, trying to see just how far they could go deceiving without being deceptive. Sounds like just about every ad campaign that ever existed.

RE: Why are you people so sore??
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 9:47:35 AM #
I guess it all depends on the unit. You see, avantgo was bundled with the Vx and not the V which makes the Vx internet ready. The V would be considered internet capable with the addition of avantgo or other software and hardware to make it internet ready. Right?

Don't you just love the legal profession and how they have screwed up society with these frivilous lawsuits?

RE: Why are you people so sore??
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/7/2002 11:06:21 AM #
How many times do I need to tell you ppl that Avantgo is not internet, it is nothing more than a document reader that so happens to be able to download webpages through your desktop computer.

Can you get on Google.com and search things on a offline avantgo ?? if the answer is no then I am sorry that is not internet.

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